Barack Obama learned after Tuesday’s Nevada debate that honesty isn’t always rewarded in politics. When asked for his greatest weakness, he talked about his messy desk — a point picked up and used against him by Hillary Clinton and John Edwards, who, by contrast, offered that they were too impatient for change (Clinton) and felt people’s pain too much (Edwards).
Obama is turning the tables, though, with a stand-up routine that’s getting laughs at campaign stops:
“Because I’m an ordinary person, I thought that they meant, ‘What’s your biggest weakness?’†he told one crowd. “If I had gone last, I would have known what the game was. And then I could have said, ‘Well, ya know, I like to help old ladies across the street. Sometimes they don’t want to be helped. It’s terrible.’â€
236 Comments
It is not a weakness to be a human being. Many people have messy work area including me. It is the folks that don’t have messy desk I worry about because they are usually the ones that don’t do any work. And Hillary should be the last one to use a messy desk against anybody beings how she managed to “misplace” about 800 pages of billing records from the Rose Law Firm that investigators discovered in the White House. Maybe Obama should tell her that.
Messy desk? Haha. I don’t care.
I want to know what’s going to be on the man’s messy desk.
What’s going to be on his desk is more laurels to Ronald Reagan, invites to right wing coffee klatches, and I HOPE his never used nomination speech.
Obama is a sell out before the fact. I said it all along. He must NOT be the nominee. No compromise candidate.
The news media doesn’t seem to have anything to write about. A grade schooler could do just as good. My desk goes from messy to clean, that’s not important to me and shouldn’t be to the news media. Of course I’m not running for public office.
Prediction:
Obama wins Nevada
Obama wins South Carolina
Romney wins Nevada
Huckabee wins South Carolina
Lets see how I do.
You liberals who don’t like Obama’s style, and his ability to compromise, should remember this:
Hillary failed, in her last Health Care Reform effort, in large measure due to her brash, rude, take-no-prisoners, ham fisted style.
Hillary is a crook. There is no way anyone can review the evidence against her and conclude otherwise. (Some of you wont care, but you can not deny that Hillary is dirty.)
http://www.judicialwatch.org/hrccomplaint.shtml
I want Hillary to get the nomination. I do not think Hillary can win the general.
Even if Hillary does win the general election, she will unite the Republican Party and she will give us back a Republican majority in Congress.
Paul,
What you think of Hillary or Barack is of monumental unimportance to me.
I think a Democratic president will unite Republicans and gain the party seats in the House and Senate in 2010 – any Democratic president.
It won’t need to be for a good reason, nothing more than the loss is needed to motivate. There won’t be an honest evaluation of the person / people in office and whether or not our country and its people are prospering. Just the loss and the need of winning.
I also don’t think this attitude is exclusive to one party, both react the same way in their need for power and influence and control.
It’s a pretty sorry way to run a country, and is proving to be an effective way of running a country into the ground.
Americans lose. Sad.
If politicians could compromise, a balance of representation from all political philosophies and ideologies would be healthy and go a ways toward accountability of all. But we seem to have lost those good qualities of balance somewhere along the way.
The First Rule of Politics – never, ever trust a Republican. Ever.
Between 1994 and 2006, the Republicans were the most vicious partisans this country has ever seen. When Dennis Hassert was Speaker of the House, he even wanted to institute a “Majority of the Majority” rule, meaning that no bill could be passed without a majority of the Republicans voting for it, regardless of the final vote tally.
Now, the Republicans decry the Democratic majority’s agenda because it does not reflect the views of the minority party. They decry the “partisanship” of the Democrats after twelve years of Republican exclusion of Democrats.
Now that the Democrats have a slim majority, the Republicans want us to play nice and share the ball on the playground.
What hypocrites.
Never trust a Republican further than you can throw him.
I am a liberal, always have been. And I support Sen. Obama. I would also be happy to support Edwards or Clinton, but Obama is my first choice. Those like Econ who would purport to understand how Democrats view their presidential candidates as left vs. center don’t understand what is going on. This is more about – though not entirely an accurate diagnostic of all Dems by any means – the politics of optimism and hope on the one hand vs. the politics of cynicism, and perpetrating the old political paradigms that have defined federal politics for too long.
WS
Look at the way Dems ran Congress before:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/GovernmentReform/BG1013.cfm
Here in SE Virginia the local public radio station airs a real gem of a radio show, Bob Edwards Weekend, from 7-8am. One of his guests this morning was David Frum, former Bush speechwriter and current diarist for NRO. (Frum is hustling his new book, Comeback: Conservatism Which Can Win Again, within which he argues that the Republics need to shuck the Rovian view of the GOP as 51% majority that has to cobbled together anew each election, in favor of a more enduring center-right party).
Frum has a pretty interesting theory about what will happen to Republics if they lose in 2008. He thinks the Republics may be in the wilderness for quite a while, mostly because they’ll spend a lot of time trying to nominate a “real” conservative in 2012. By “real conservative,” Frum meant a Matrix-like The One, ie a Reagan-esque party uniter. According to Frum, due to where Bush has led the party today, if they lose this November they’ll likely lose again in 2012 as they Reagan-ize the GOP the way the Democrats McGovern-ized that party in 1972. In other words, if the Republics don’t move to the middle to win this November then they won’t move to the middle (ie, win) for a long time to come.
Anybody else miss Bob Edwards? I guess you can pick up his show on satellite radio, but I’m not much interested in paying for entertainment that’s been free for so long. I really miss my old early morning commute, from McPherson to Wichita, with Edwards on NPR. What a great radio announcer he is.
Paul, when I referred to a partisan Republican I was thinking of folks just like you…………
In fact, you specifically came to mind.
And the Heritage Foundation is one link where my computer just won’t go – it has better taste than that.
By the way Paul, a while back you claimed that Nixon was on the verge of winning the Vietnam War when he was derailed by Watergate………
So explain, O Partisan One, how Watergate affected Nixon, if most troops were withdrawn in 1973 and Nixon resign the presidency in 1974?
And also explain who was at fault for Watergate.
Just curious……………………
Kelly said:
This is more about…the politics of optimism and hope on the one hand vs. the politics of cynicism, and perpetrating the old political paradigms
Well said. I agree.
Imagine if Mitt Romney’s church proclaimed on its website that it is “unashamedly white.”
The media–and of course Sharpton and his gang–would go nuts, and Romney’s presidential candidacy would be over. Yet that is exactly what Barack Obama’s church says on its web site — except in reverse.
From the website:
““We are a congregation which is unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian,” says the Trinity United Church of Christ’s website in Chicago” yes…it is true. You can check it out yourself at http://www.tucc.org/about.htm
So…why is it ok for one presidential candidate to attend a clearly racist church, yet there would be total outrage, moral indignation and everything else if ANY of the white candidates attended a church which would proudly brag about being “unashamedly white”??
Racism is only what Al Sharpton says it is, I guess…
“Imagine if Mitt Romney’s church proclaimed on its website that it is “unashamedly white.””
This sort of reminds me when (inevitably)a white persons asks in February “when will it be White History Month?”
Duh. The other eleven months are White History Month(s).
The media/conservatives constantly decry the (presumed)lack of responsibility within the black community, yet when a church seeks to uplift the same community, they are accused of being reverse racists.
Can’t win for losing with some folks.
Bill Clinton says Obama supporters in the Culinary Union are playing dirty.
I think Bill Clinton is lying, don’t you? When has a labor union every broken any rules of fair play?
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Bill_Clinton_claims_he_witnessed_voter_suppression.html
Seriously, how stupid would it be for a Union official to make such a stupid threat in front of BILL CLINTON?
“Clinton’s an unusually good liar” Former Democrat Senator Bob Kerry, of Nebraska, speaking about Bill Clinton.
Paul, do you wake up at night mumbling Clinton! Kerry! Gore! God help me!?!
Let’s hear your commentary on the Republican candidates and maybe something other than continual smears on the three-headed monster that haunts your dreams.
WS
North Vietnam did not invade the South, and take Saigon, until the Ford Adminstration.
Ford was hamstrung, and could not help South Vietnam, because of the Congress being packed by anti-war anti-Nixon liberals, due to Watergate.
Also, the Vietcong was pretty much not an issue anymore, by the time US Troops left South Vietnam to fend for itself.
The North never would have invaded the South, had the North been the least bit worried that America would honor its obligations to the South. We should have bombed the North Vietnamese tanks the moment they crossed the border.
History, WS.
Try to learn it.
WS
Saigon fell in April, 1975.
We did not “loose” anything, until Saigon fell due to American Congressional (Democrat) negligence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Saigon
WS
On Obama’s church, and his Minister at that church, I somewhat agree, except it is worse than any “Black pride” thing.
Obama’s pastor is very fond of Louis Farrakhan, a nut and a hateful bigot and racist, if their ever was one:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/14/AR2008011402083.html
“Saigon fell in April, 1975.”
That is correct, however, you conveniently neglected to mention that most American combat troops were withdrawn in 1973.
Watergate was 1974.
And North Vietnamese invaded the South in the EARLY Sixties, Paul!
Now who is ignoring history?
Only a partisan hack would try to blame the Vietnam War on Watergate.
Oh, yeah, WHO was to blame for Watergate?
Hack.
ECON — Go read the Editorial Page in today’s WE.. for more information on the Bogus Crap about Obama’s Church… I KNOW that church… I KNOW that Pastor… YOU are totaly wrong!!
U.C.C.
WS
You are the partisan hack here.
Everything I said is historically correct.
I did not “blame Vietnam” on Watergate.
I am simply making the point that, without Watergate causing Nixon to resign, and without Watergate weakening the Republican Party and strengthening the radical anti-War Democrats, Nixon would have bombed the North into submission.
Instead, the Democrats in Congress made it impossible for Ford to give any assistance to South Vietnam.
The Democrats in Congress caused hundreds of thousands to be tortured and killed by the Communists.
It is history.
Live with it?
Obviously you can’t.
“Also, the Vietcong was pretty much not an issue anymore”
Bullshit. The Viet Cong, North Vietnamese irregulars and South Vietnamese rebels were impossible to quantify – hence the enormous problem American troops had determining who was the enemy and who was not.
The Americans, like the French, had two enemies to deal with in Viet Nam, the NVR and the Cong.
That, and a corrupt South Vietnamese government and a populous that didn’t really give a damn made Viet Nam an unwinable war.
And Paul, since you are a lover of all things Nixon, what happened to Nixon’s Secret Plan to end the war, promised to the American people in 1968?
When Trinity UCC says it is “unashamedly Black” it is obvious that some folks have no clue as to what that means… It MEANS We are not going to moan and groan and feel sorry for ourselves because we are Black… We are going to take responsibility for ourselves, and for our lives…
NOW — Just what is WRONG with that??? And how the hell is it racist??? Hmmmm????
I believe that is very similar to what Bill Cosby said in a speech not many years ago!!
SOME Black leaders yelled at him for saying it… But NOW, they arent yelling so much!! They have learned since that Cosby… and others like Trinity UCC/Chicago — are RIGHT ON TARGET!!
Chas
I think I have been rather kind towards Obama, thus far.
However, Obama does need to repudiate Farrakhan.
Type Farrakhan Obama into your browser.
Who is telling the truth?
Besides, a number of Black leaders keep saying things and retracting them, lately. I am not sure who to trust. Are you?
Chas..
If you are such an expert on that church, how do you defend the racist tones they put on their own website? Or racist writings from that pastor, to wit:
“In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01,” Wright wrote in a church-affiliated magazine. “White America and the western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared’ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns”
And, WS..that was a pretty pathetic smokescreen, even for you. We are talking about someone who wants to be President of the United States being an active supporter of a very racist organization. What if Hillary or John Edwards belonged to a church that was “proudly white”? The Al Sharpton groupies would have a field day.
Equal opportunity???
Just what does Vietnam History have to do with anything Obama has said?? or not said??
“Nixon would have bombed the North into submission.”
Bullshit. He had from 1969 until 1974 to “bomb the North, yada, yada” and he tried.
What was going to change?
Are you honestly going to try to tell us that SUDDENLY Nixon was going to prevail bombing the North and the North was going to surrender?
What a crock.
Nixon bombed the North almost daily from ‘69 to ‘73.
Watergate didn’t have a damned thing to do with it.
Hack.
WS
WATERGATE ended Nixons “secret plan” to end the war.
By the way, what about JFK’s “missle gap” that he used to help steal the election from Nixon?
And, WS, you are wrong. The American military eliminated the Viet Cong as a fighting force, long before the fall of Saigon.
Here is a book you should read:
http://www.shop.com/+-a-Viet+Cong+defeat-p59844308-k36-st.shtml
The American Democrat Party lost Vietnam.
The American Military WON the Vietnam war, and the Democrats gave Vietnam away to the enemy.
“I think I have been rather kind towards Obama”
Another crock from the King of Partisan Hackery.
You have no shame, Paul.
Econ, I feel real sorry for you if you call the writings of Pastor Wright racisst… If you cant handle the truth, then thats too bad… but dont label it racist, just cause you cant understand the depth of his statements… Jeremiah Wright is one of the most patriotic pastors in this country… BUT — he also looks at the total picture… I believe it would be called a “sociological” approach…. as opposed to a socio/political approach…
“WATERGATE ended Nixons “secret plan” to end the war.”
Water gate became an issue in 1973, resulting in Nixon resignation in 1974.
Nixon promised a Secret Plan to end the war in 1968.
What happened in the intervening five years?
It took less than three years to defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.
And WHO was responsible for Watergate?
Clark, sometimes I think Econ is one of those Paid Trolls KFG was talking about earlier!!
Same old stuff… Day afer day!!
WS
“Yet the military reality of Tet was an overwhelming defeat for the Commu- nists. The Vietcong, in particular, were demolished – and never again a factor in the war.
But Cronkite’s characterization carried the day, and America’s enemies learned a valuable lesson: Wars are not always won on the battlefield.”
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10202006/postopinion/editorials/a_war_on_americas_will_editorials_.htm
WS
Did Nixon put a timeline on his plan?
B-52 bombing, of the North, would have saved the South.
Democrats would not allow Ford to save the South.
The American Military defeated the VietCong.
An American General told a North Vietnamese General:
“You never won a single battle”
“True, but irrelevent” said the Communist General.
— The Democrats lost the war for us.
Ummmm Econ?? TET was during the Johnson Administration… TET was the thing that turned the tide on American Support for the Nam war, largely… As that NYP article pointed out, TET was what led Johnson to determine that Nam was not winnable… And, as it rightly points out, the presence of China and the Soviet Union were also factors in Nam…
Please try not to mis-represent the facts…
Obama will probably win Nevada, but I still think Edwards has South Carolina. And the pundits will be amazed!
http://action.credomobile.com/comics/2008/01/the_adventures_of_conventional.html
“Did Nixon put a timeline on his plan?”
And what WAS his plan, Rossell?
Outlast the Vietnamese?
When you speak of a plan to END the war, it is REASONABLE to assume that it would be sometime in the reasonable near future – instead, Nixon expanded the war beyond even the levels of that human POS, LBJ.
And Paul, still waiting on an answer as to WHO was responsible for Watergate.
Eh?
Do you realize that at this point, the YOUNGEST Vietnam Vets are already 54 years old??
Iraq simply is NOT another Nam… And Bush’s attempt to make it such, is just bogus!!
Do you remember when we were going to win the “war on drugs”??? or the “war on poverty”??? We havent won those… We have been fighting this so-called “war on terror” since before the days of Reagan… in fact, back at least as far as the Olympic Raid years ago, when the Israeli’s were kidnapped!!
Bush didnt invent that concept of the “war on terror” — He just seized on the fear factor!!
Americans, I think, are tired of the Fear Card… I think they will answer in the November elections.
“B-52 bombing, of the North, would have saved the South.”
Jeez, Paul, what the Hell do you think Nixon was DOING from 1969 until 1973?
Throwing stones out the windows of bombers at the Vietnamese?
“The American Military defeated the VietCong.”
We weren’t just fighting the Viet Cong. We were fighting the North Vietnamese Regular Army, the Cong and a corrupt South Vietnamese government, not to mention apathy of the South Vietnamese people.
The war on drugs is lost because there are too many “it’s all about me ” American drug users that are complicit with the drug lords of the world. The “let’s provide them with needles crowd.”
“And Paul, still waiting on an answer as to WHO was responsible for Watergate.
Eh?”
You blame the lost of the Viet Nam War on Watergate, so WHO was responsible for the Watergate Scandal?
Clark >>>
D
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I am amazed at Chas’s statment..
” but dont label it racist, just cause you cant understand the depth of his statements.”
Pastor Wrights statements are race based. Period. The only differentiation between people in his writings is race. If that is not racism, I would love to know what is.
In regards to Obama’s UCC website:
Shouldn’t the website be emphasizing that they are Americans first, then black (or African) or white or hispanic or whatever and with their first allegiance to the US of America and not to Africa?
Am I not allowed to attend their church because I am not African?
That is where we all can get lost, when we do not remember that we are all Americans first (who are citizens), because we live in America!
Aren’t we all descendants of Adam, and if so, we are all of one race?
Ah, Chas, Paul is not a troll, he is just a partisan hack that believes everything Republican is good and everything Democratic is evil.
As for anyone else – I don’t even bother to read troll posts.
WS
Nixon was responsible for Watergate.
Antiwar Democrats and anti American radicals took advantage of Watergate, and handed Vietnam to the Communists.
The American Military never lost a single battle.
“Aren’t we all descendants of Adam, and if so, we are all of one race?”
No.
“Am I not allowed to attend their church because I am not African?”
And American, of the USA, welcome to the blog if you are new to the forum.
If you are just another nic switcher – well……………..
“The American Military never lost a single battle.”
As with Iraq, there is more to the war than just military conflicts…………….. we said that in 1967, loud and clear, and it was obvious in 1975.
But you missed a bunch of questions, Paul, like if the North could have been bombed into submission, why didn’t Nixon do that between 1969 and 1973?
WSClark
Posted January 19, 2008 at 2:25 pm | Permalink
Ah, Chas, Paul is not a troll, he is just a partisan hack that believes everything Republican is good and everything Democratic is evil.
As for anyone else – I don’t even bother to read troll posts
—————-
Congratulations Econ101! You have met WSClark’s approved to response list!
Everyone else who he disagrees with is a troll.
Anointing and special robes will be awarded later.
Yeah,…when WS can’t deal with rational thought, he dismissively proclaims someone a troll and that makes the present logic/facts just disappear. What a mature way to hold a discussion.
Ever notice that the ones who cry the loudest about war never served?
Must be a guilty conscious or a spine substitute to make up for lack of character.
“when WS can’t deal with rational thought”
I am still waiting for you to post a rational thought, Taz.
Maybe next time, right?
Give it a try……………………….
Duck Clak!! Here come the ad hominem bombs!!
Here is one, from WS Clark a few months ago:
“I am leaving this blog and will not come back”.
Ok…nice believability factor you got going there.
The 60s mindset is a thing of the past. It’s working on almost 50 years old now.
No need to dig up graves, play the political drumbeat with bones or extract “coulda shoulda woulda” scenarios.
BTW, Trinity UCC/Chicago, has many white members… You all know nothing of the Church, yet you call it racist!! I repeat — I KNOW the Church — I KNOW the Pastor — That Church is anything but racist!! BUT — they are “unashamedly black”!! You all just dont get that point… And I dont even expect you to… Those with a slant toward bigotry would never grasp that concept!!
So getting back to the UCC website:
How can anybody support a candidate whose church’s allegience is to Africa and not to The US of America?
Actually Chas, you can blame the Pastor of that Church and the News media for reporting that’s Pastor’s own words.
What was that about separation of church and state?
It appears that the U.C.C. is quite confused about the concept.
WS
Nixon bombing the North did bring the North back to the bargaining tables.
Bombing the North worked, when we did it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Linebacker_II
“How can anybody support a candidate whose church’s allegience is to Africa and not to The US of America?”
Garbage. I suppose next you are going to claim that Barack Obama is a SECRET Muslim that was raised by a radical Islamic Terrorist………
Just garbage.
From TODAY’S EAGLE >>>
Don’t trust election e-mails
It shouldn’t still be necessary to tell people not to believe everything they read on the Internet. But given the number of viral e-mails circulating about Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, the warning apparently is still needed.
Obama was asked during Tuesday’s Democratic debate about e-mails claiming that he is a Muslim, that he took the oath of office on the Quran and that he refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance. Obama said that the claims weren’t true, and he expressed his faith that the public is too smart to believe such e-mails.
But more than e-mails are spreading lies about Obama. So are some partisan media outlets — which can make the wild claims seem more credible.
For example, Insight, an online magazine owned by the Washington Times, this month repeated the old, thoroughly debunked claim that Obama attended a radical Muslim school, or madrassa, when he lived in Indonesia as a young child. The article cited unnamed sources claiming that unnamed researchers connected to Hillary Clinton’s campaign had uncovered this background and that these unnamed researchers were “searching for evidence that Mr. Obama is still a Muslim or has ties to Islam.”
Two programs on the Fox News Channel and several conservative talk-radio programs then repeated the false claims, citing the Insight article.
A spokesman for the Clinton campaign told the New York Times that this is standard operating procedure. “A right-wing rag makes up a scurrilous charge and prints it with no real attribution,” said Howard Wolfson. “The smear gets injected into the atmosphere and picked up by talk radio.”
The Obama campaign released a statement noting: “Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago. Furthermore, the Indonesian school Obama attended in Jakarta is a public school that is not and never has been a madrassa.”
Yet the claims keep coming.
Smears aren’t limited to Obama or Democrats, of course. John McCain, Mitt Romney and other Republican presidential candidates have had their share — though Obama has been the favorite target this campaign.
So between now and November, voters would be wise to be skeptical of election e-mails that attack a particular candidate. Do some research to see if the claims are true. More than likely, they’re not.
For the editorial board, Phillip Brownlee
“Nixon bombing the North did bring the North back to the bargaining tables.”
And what did Nixon negotiate?
The withdrawal of American troops.
So, how is that the fault of Congressional Democrats and the Watergate investigations?
By the way, Paul, the Republicans constantly blame Clinton for not fighting an adequate battle against terrorism – something I do not believe – but they do not feel that impeachment had anything to do with his efforts.
Yet, you feel that the impeachment hearings against Nixon influenced the outcome of the Viet Nam War.
How do you explain the hypocrisy?
“How can anybody support a candidate whose church’s allegience is to Africa and not to The US of America?”
===================
Ummmmm because their MISSION program is geared toward a WIDE variety of mission programs based in Africa — A Continent that has MANY Christian missions — from many denominations!!
Chill out! WS Be cool!
I am only goin by what is on their website!
Don’t jump to conclusions!
Does the UCC believe in the divine Word of God?
BTW, Trinity UCC/Chicago also generously supports a program called “Neighbors in Need” which is totally focused on mission projects that are ONLY USA programs… One recent NIN project was the Greensburg Tornado… Another was Katrina… etc., etc.
“Does the UCC believe in the divine Word of God?”
Don’t know,don’t care. I am not a Christian and do not believe in a religious test for a candidate for any office.
The UCC is a Christian denomination… ALL UCC mission pronouncements are required to be based on a Biblical foundation, or mandate!!
If people would only READ, they might actually LEARN!! What a bunch of bigotry!!
Now you go from attacking a candidate, to attacking an entire denomination!!
Heaven forbid if anybody did that to the Southern Baptists, or United Methodists!!
FYI — The UCC is predominantly a WHITE denomination… Geez!!
True…nationwide the UCC is predominantly white. It is just the one location that Barack supports that publshes statements based on race.
Don’t get your dander up at me. I am not the one that wrote their website. Should a predominantly white church brag about being “unabashedly white” the screams of racism would be loud and long. Why the difference? Why is it racist for one group to identify by race but not another? Bit of a dichotomy here, wouldn’t you agree?
NO — I wouldnt agree — They are “unashamedly black” because they are not moaning and groaning about being black in a white world… They are all about strengthening the black community, and black families… rather than waiting on welfare, or government programs, to do it for them… You find something wrong with that?? They help black folks find jobs… They help with family concerns… They have a HUGE staff of people working there!!
They are “unashamedly black” and “unabashedly Christian” Why do you forget to include the “Christian” part of their website?? It is all a part of the same “Motto”
Would you stop with just “Ad Aspera” and leave out the “per Astra” ??? Geez… lunacy!!
Part of the U.C.C. promotes secular agendas as their main focus. Race, homosexual issues and etc.
It’s one of the main reason U.C.C. has lost 25 percent of their membership in the past two decades. That is, they strayed from Biblical teachings in order to push secular issues to the fore.
“The UCC is a Christian denomination… ALL UCC mission pronouncements are required to be based on a Biblical foundation, or mandate!!
“If people would only READ, they might actually LEARN!! What a bunch of bigotry!!
“Now you go from attacking a candidate, to attacking an entire denomination!!
“Heaven forbid if anybody did that to the Southern Baptists, or United Methodists!!
“FYI — The UCC is predominantly a WHITE denomination… Geez!!”
Chas, seriously, chill.
This is a button of yours that is too easy for a troll to push (and yes, I believe American etc., etc. is a troll, possibly an incarnation of you know who-although I don’t of course claim to know that for certain).
Don’t be such troll bait.
This is more about the UCC for anyone who is genuinely interested.
http://www.ucc.org/about-us/
Once again, READ the Editorial by Brownlee… It has some SOLID facts!! What is being presented largely here is FALSE information, and anti-black inuendo…
Your own words:
“They are all about strengthening the black community, and black families”. so, you are admitting their work is based on race. Sounds like racism to me. If there were no racism involved, they would be about helping POOR communities, and POOR families…REGARDLESS OF THEIR SKIN COLOR.
Purely racist. Plain and simple.
See?
“Part of the U.C.C. promotes secular agendas as their main focus. Race, homosexual issues and etc.
“It’s one of the main reason U.C.C. has lost 25 percent of their membership in the past two decades. That is, they strayed from Biblical teachings in order to push secular issues to the fore.”
This is a blantant attempt to get you riled up Chas. This is what it does.
Re: Kansas
DNFTT
Ksagnostic — It’s not just on this Blog… Its on all the talk radio carriers, and on the Drudge Report, and in the Washington(Moonie) Times, and in Insight Magazine(More Moonie junk).
This is going WAY too far!! It’s swift boating without the boats or the vets!! Time to stop this trash NOW, before it gets beyond fixing… Sorry if I am adamant about something like this, but I KNOW a number of folks involved at Trinity/Chicago… And all of this trash is just plain FALSE information!!
OK — I shut up now!!
The truth stings eh ksagnostic? :)
:-) — Yea, and so have the Presbyterians, and Methodists, and Lutherans… But Obama is UCC, sooooo nobody will mention the others!!
Of course, there is nothing biblically WRONG with dealing with social agenda!! But, I wont even go there!!
:-)
“Purely racist. Plain and simple.”
Purely provocation. I suspect this is another incarnation of you know who.
Re: taz
DNFTT
White folks want blacks to help themselves – except when they don’t.
I am afraid that you are correct, KS Ag, a certain troll-like attitude is present in posts from some “new” members.
Feeding of trolls is now prohibited.
Obama is losing in Nevada btw.
K-state playing TX A & M now… Back later!!
Ok, Agnostic. Refute my statements. If it were about helping poor or needy people, REGARDLESS of skin color, there would be no issue. But, since it is only about helping people of one color, how is that NOT racist?
Chas!
Believing in Christ is not limited by race. All races and ethnic groups have accepted the call of the Lord!
Supporting mission work for Christ in Africa sounds like a great thing!
The UCC may be a predominately white denomination, but that shouldn’t matter, if this particular church is emphasizing only enabling black christians, but has white members also?
BTW, good UCC link Ksagnostic… If only people would READ it — LOL
And, of course, when certain people cannot come up with a mature, rational response, they retreat to the ‘troll’ argument–whatever the hell that is. T
Chas…………………….. trolls…………….
You misunderstand me,Chas. You don’t need to shut up, and I agree that deliberate distortions about the UCC and Trinity should be addressed. But just address them without…
“If people would only READ, they might actually LEARN!! What a bunch of bigotry!!”
or…
“FYI — The UCC is predominantly a WHITE denomination… Geez!!”
Which is actually fine without the “Geez!”
It’s how you respond Chas, with caps and exclaimation points to emphasize your irritation. That’s exactly what trolls thrive on.
For example, re Regular’s latest shallow attempt to engage me:
DNFTT
It is unworthy of my attention, and will continue to be so until it actually posts and responds to actual arguments with actual content. When it does, it becomes a he and worthy of detailed responses. Otherwise, all it gets is a DNFTT.
I could answer that American, but I WONT!! You would just spin the answer into whatever you wanted to make of it… SO, go to ucc.org, and find out for yourself!! Bye!!!
KsAgnostic — I understand.. I dont know how to do italics for emphasis, so I use Caps… It used to be permissable to use Caps for emphasis..
But, I guess somebody changed the rules!! LOL`
“when certain people cannot come up with a mature, rational response”
Still waiting for your mature, rational response…..
As I mentioned, if black folks at a church try to encourage other blacks to help themselves on Sunday, it is viewed as being racist and exclusionary, but on Monday, those same folks that cried “reserve racism” accuse the black community of not taking responsibility.
And, as I said, you can’t win for losing sometimes.
Ball game now — Back later!
Chas,
Does the UCC believe in the inherent word of the Living God?
ksagnostic won’t engage me in discussion because he has nothing of substance to offer. ksagnostic offers only rhetoric, divisive speech and rancor.
Use the less than symbol and greater than symbol as brackets e.g., less thanigreater than word less than/igreater than.
Example: Substitute less than for the left bracket and greater than for the right bracket.
People of [i]all[/i] racial backgrounds are welcomed at Trinity UCC in Chicago.
People of all racial backgrounds are welcomed at Trinity UCC in Chicago.
Wow, this thread has gone to hell in a handbasket since I started watching B-ball.
BTW, it is a scientific fact that all humankind populating the earth are direct descendants of one female African who walked out of East Africa and into the Middle East about 160,000 years ago. Paleogeneticists have proven this fact. Call her “Eve” if you want, but she was black, and the Mother of us all.
“ksagnostic won’t engage me in discussion because he has nothing of substance to offer. ksagnostic offers only rhetoric, divisive speech and rancor.”
Translation:
“C’mon ksagnostic, take the baaaaaait! I iiiinsulted yoooooooou! Fiiiiiiiiight baaaaaaaack! Pleeeeeeeeese taaaaaaaaake iiiiiiiiit! Pleeeeeeeeese notice meeeeeeee!”
Ah, the smell of troll desperation in the afternoon.
Re: Regular
DNFTT
Liberal United Church of Christ Celebrates 50th Anniversary Amid Drastic Decline
“Can the dry bones rise again?” –Mark Tooley, IRD Director of UMAction
Contact: Loralei Coyle 202-682-4131, 202-905-6852 cell, lcoyle@ird-renew.org; Radio Interviews: Jeff Walton, jwalton@ird-renew.org; both with the Institute on Religion and Democracy
WASHINGTON, June 22 /Christian Newswire/ — The 1.2 million member United Church of Christ (UCC) is celebrating its 50th anniversary at a general synod gathering in Hartford, CT this weekend. Featured speakers will include church members such as Senator Barak Obama and actress Lynn Redgrave. Having lost 1 million members over the last 40 years, 40,000 last year alone, the UCC is one of the fastest declining — and most liberal — of America’s church denominations. In 2005, the UCC became the first major denomination in the U.S. to endorse same-sex “marriage.” Since then, over 200 congregations have decided to leave the church.
Mark Tooley, IRD Director of UMAction commented:
“The UCC embodies the dysfunction of declining, old-line Protestantism in America. Its elites, unaware or uninterested in the beliefs of average local church members, devote themselves to radical political causes instead of the traditional Gospel. The inevitable result has been a massive hemorrhage in membership, finances and overall cultural influence.
“Ecclesial descendants of America’s earliest Puritan forbearers, the UCC and its predecessor bodies have been highly influential in America’s religious and cultural life across 4 centuries. But since the 1960’s, the UCC has been increasingly radicalized and politicized.
“With its Congregationalist emphasis, UCC local churches often ignore the denomination’s national leadership.
“Can the dry bones rise again? This denomination has played a noble role for much of American history. Perhaps the Almighty will once again revive what UCC leaders have seemed determined to asphyxiate.”
http://www.ird-renew.org
#
ksagnostic
Posted January 19, 2008 at 3:28 pm | Permalink
“ksagnostic won’t engage me in discussion because he has nothing of substance to offer. ksagnostic offers only rhetoric, divisive speech and rancor.”
Translation:
“C’mon ksagnostic, take the baaaaaait! I iiiinsulted yoooooooou! Fiiiiiiiiight baaaaaaaack! Pleeeeeeeeese taaaaaaaaake iiiiiiiiit! Pleeeeeeeeese notice meeeeeeee!”
Ah, the smell of troll desperation in the afternoon.
Re: Regular
DNFTT
————–
Point proven by the designated Liberal left progressive arm flailer.
Trolls, trolls, trolls, if you do not feed the trolls they will starve……………….
Fair enough, Kelly.
JR posted: “What’s going to be on his desk is more laurels to Ronald Reagan, invites to right wing coffee klatches, and I HOPE his never used nomination speech.
“Obama is a sell out before the fact. I said it all along. He must NOT be the nominee. No compromise candidate.”
Kelly responded with an explanation for supporting Obama that included:
“This is more about – though not entirely an accurate diagnostic of all Dems by any means – the politics of optimism and hope on the one hand vs. the politics of cynicism, and perpetrating the old political paradigms that have defined federal politics for too long.”
Tom seconded the sentiments, and I third them.
JR, I strongly disagree with your apparent obsession with revenge on the Republicans. It is a self defeating strategy. Yes, the Republican leadership has engaged in nasty and partisan politics, but it is possible to respond without being vengeful. People are sick of the partisan crap, and don’t want more of it even from the wronged party.
WSClark
Posted January 19, 2008 at 3:36 pm | Permalink
Trolls, trolls, trolls, if you do not feed the trolls they will starve
—————–
True William,
It’s why no one wants to respond to you anymore. Your usual manner of repeating the same question over and over, if the answer isn’t to your liking. Besides, you quit and said you were never coming back.
Democrats, Republicans, Africans, what color Adam was……..It does not really matter!
Republicans in some ways are no different than Democrats!
Or Trolls for that matter, whatever that is – the blogs tools for confusing and coded communication.
Being an American is what matters and what we stand for!
Why is it that a Senator hasn’t been elected president in over 40 years? The last time a Senator was elected was Kennedy. Since then, it has been either former VP (Johnson, Bush Sr, Nixon) or former governors (Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush Jr).
Just making an observation….and wondering if that history has any bearing on the upcoming elections?
A little soup for the troll…
http://www.umaction.org/
Mark Tooley is a tool. Quite literally.
BTW, we have some vibrant UCC congregations right here in Doodah.
Now, back on starvation diet for you.
There is not a bit of difference between Barack and Clinton!
My great Aunt was a U.C.C. member, the one on Emporia or there abouts. That U.C.C. church was more conservative than the others about. Had good members that helped her out. She was rather cranky. :D
But hey, when your in your 90s and still active in Church, you can be a bit testy. :)
She never spoke much about it, but was upset in the way that the national organization for the U.C.C. had been hijacked by seculars. She said (paraphrased) that the U.C.C. had been hijacked by non-believers and those wanting to focus attention on themselves.
“Democrats, Republicans, Africans, what color Adam was……..It does not really matter!
“Republicans in some ways are no different than Democrats!
“Or Trolls for that matter, whatever that is – the blogs tools for confusing and coded communication.
“Being an American is what matters and what we stand for!”
If I misjudged you, my apologies. If you are indeed another incarnation of the thing that shall not be named, I of course do not.
My problem with your assumption is that being concerned, and even having an outreach program, to Africa is hardly incompatible with being American. Trinity is known for emphasizing the African ancestry of most of its congregation. It is not, however, in any way unwelcoming to anyone else.
And that’s all this agnostic apatheist has to say about that.
Regular, I agree!
The mainline churches have descended into apostasy. The UCC is one of them! They deny the diety of Christ! But call themselves Christian!
“Regular, I agree!
“The mainline churches have descended into apostasy. The UCC is one of them! They deny the diety of Christ! But call themselves Christian!”
Uh huh.
Maybe not a troll, but I have to wonder about the possibility of actual conversation here.
Not my version of Christianity = not christianity.
Not my issue. But I am still an American.
For that matter, one thing I am not fond of Obama about has been his occasional dismissal of the concerns of people on the secular left (mostly before he became a presidential candidate). I am all for coalitions, but coalitions involve what groups have in common, not what separates them.
I just figured the “African” reference was that Trinity has kick-ass music for its services.
Ronald Reagan said trust, but verify……….
That is how I view the Republic Party, and they are on a very, very short leash.
I agree with Tom, Kelly and KS-AG to a degree, but can also see J R’s point of view, despite the fact that I am an Obama supporter.
The Republican now want bipartisanship, despite being the most virulent partisans over the past fifteen years or so.
The Democrats are now the party of record. I believe that we should try to work together with the Republicans, but that spirit of cooperation should end the very moment a Paul F. Rossell or Todd Tiahrt or Rush O’Hannity type rears his or her ugly head and tries to derail the process.
Unfortunately, we all know that it will happen.
Republicans cannot help themselves.
Republicans have be trained and brainwashed by the Newt Gingrich approach to politics that encourages ANY attack on the opposition while excusing ANY failings of one’s own party.
We have a Governor of Kansas with a 67% approval rating, yet there are Republicans that are calling for her impeachment.
When Bill Clinton was impeached by the most partisan Congress in the history of the United States, everyone knew that he would never be convicted by the Senate of the United States, yet the bastards did it anyway, just to embarrass the president.
Those lessons that the Democrats learned from the Republicans will not be soon forgotten.
If the Republicans want bipartisanship, it will be on the Democrat’s terms – and if they cross the line, like they did during impeachment, the ballgame will be over.
As I said, never trust a Republican further than you can throw him………….
“I just figured the “African” reference was that Trinity has kick-ass music for its services.”
That’s a big part of it, from what I understand. it refers in part to the style of worship.
ksagnostic,
Hard for a church to invoke the name of Christ if you don’t believe in Him.
Appears to be hypocrisy honed down by the dull knife of political correctness.
ksagnostic,
But’s it’a also very disengenious for a candidate to “use” to the label “Christain” as part of a bag of tools to gain election, don’t you think!
Ronald Reagan said trust, but verify……….
That is how I view the Republic Party, and they are on a very, very short leash.
I agree with Tom, Kelly and KS-AG to a degree, but can also see J R’s point of view, despite the fact that I am an Obama supporter.
The Republican now want bipartisanship, despite being the most virulent partisans over the past fifteen years or so.
The Democrats are now the party of record. I believe that we should try to work together with the Republicans, but that spirit of cooperation should end the very moment a Paul F. Rossell or Todd Tiahrt or Rush O’Hannity type rears his or her ugly head and tries to derail the process.
Unfortunately, we all know that it will happen.
Republicans cannot help themselves.
Republicans have be trained and brainwashed by the Newt Gingrich approach to politics that encourages ANY attack on the opposition while excusing ANY failings of one’s own party.
We have a Governor of Kansas with a 67% approval rating, yet there are Republicans that are calling for her impeachment.
When Bill Clinton was impeached by the most partisan Congress in the history of the United States, everyone knew that he would never be convicted by the Senate of the United States, yet the bastards did it anyway, just to embarrass the president.
Those lessons that the Democrats learned from the Republicans will not be soon forgotten.
If the Republicans want bipartisanship, it will be on the Democrat’s terms – and if they cross the line, like they did during impeachment, the ballgame will be over.
As I said, never trust a Republican further than you can throw him………….
“American, of the USA” posted –
“But’s it’a also very disengenious for a candidate to “use” to the label “Christain” as part of a bag of tools to gain election, don’t you think!”
Seems like Obama didn’t make it an issue, the insane trolls of Republic Party partisanship started it with their lies about him being a Muslim Manchurian Candidate.
The Huckster, on the other hand, advocates a King James Version of the Constitution. Mittens says you can’t be a good American unless you’re religious.
The attacks on this thread against Obama’s home church have been thinly-veiled racism; sometimes, not so thinly.
Ummm Point of Order — There has NEVER been a U.C.C. church on Emporia Street in Wichita… NEVER been one there… Try again!!
D
N
F
T
T’
s
MonkeyHawk,
Why do you bring up race?
If the Republicans do not have the facts right on Baracks history, they should not use it!
I am also tired of the partisanship.
What is the history of his Muslim past?
Chill, Chas. The writer clearly said “Emporia street or there abouts”. Man…you are just frothing at the mouth to attack anybody at anytime, aren’t you?
Take a chill pill, relax.
taz,
In response to your question about a Senator not being elected president since JFK:
There seems to have been few viable candidates who were a vice-president previously and then elected president since then:
Nixon (VP to Ike)
Ford by default
Carter was an exception, although he did have executive experience.
Reagan was an exception for the same reason.
Bush 41 (VP to Reagan)
Clinton was an exception.
Bush 43 was an exception.
A Senator has not had executive experience as a Senator prior to election.
Obama has NO Muslim past!!
Ummm Emporia… or thereabouts…. hmmmm Topeka?? Broadway?? St. Francis?? Market??
No dice… NO UCC on those streets either!!
“American, of the USA” –
If you’ll read the above thread (I realize actually reading stuff might make your lips get tired), you’ll see the the “African” card was played by others long before I addressed their racism.
As for “the history of his Muslim past,” click here:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
Chas.
So it is not true that Obama’s step Father was a Muslim?
Might have been… but not Obama… so your point is what??
WOW K-state kicked A & M butt big time!!
Well, back later all!!
Part I………….
Ronald Reagan said trust, but verify……….
That is how I view the Republic Party, and they are on a very, very short leash.
I agree with Tom, Kelly and KS-AG to a degree, but can also see J R’s point of view, despite the fact that I am an Obama supporter.
The Republican now want bipartisanship, despite being the most virulent partisans over the past fifteen years or so.
The Democrats are now the party of record. I believe that we should try to work together with the Republicans, but that spirit of cooperation should end the very moment a Paul F. Rossell or Todd Tiahrt or Rush O’Hannity type rears his or her ugly head and tries to derail the process.
Part II………..
Unfortunately, we all know that it will happen.
Republicans cannot help themselves.
Republicans have be trained and brainwashed by the Newt Gingrich approach to politics that encourages ANY attack on the opposition while excusing ANY failings of one’s own party.
We have a Governor of Kansas with a 67% approval rating, yet there are Republicans that are calling for her impeachment.
When Bill Clinton was impeached by the most partisan Congress in the history of the United States, everyone knew that he would never be convicted by the Senate of the United States, yet the (b-words) did it anyway, just to embarrass the president.
Those lessons that the Democrats learned from the Republicans will not be soon forgotten.
If the Republicans want bipartisanship, it will be on the Democrat’s terms – and if they cross the line, like they did during impeachment, the ballgame will be over.
As I said, never trust a Republican further than you can throw him………….
“American, of the USA” asked –
“So it is not true that Obama’s step Father was a Muslim?
Which is about as relevant as asking, “Could Mittens Romneys ‘grandmothers’ have fielded a basketball team?”
Facts are, “American, of the USA” –
Obama was not educated in a Madrassa, was not raised as a Muslim, and was not raised by his father – an atheist Obama met once in his life before he died.
All of the claims about Senator Obama’s faith and education raised in the Insight Magazine story and repeated on Fox News are false. Senator Obama was raised in a secular household in Indonesia by his stepfather and mother. Obama’s stepfather worked for a U.S. oil company and sent his stepson to two years of Catholic school as well as two years of public school.
Monkey Hawk — They wont quit as long as we respond —
DNFTT’s
The Insight Magazine story was been debunked as many times as the Qu’uan Chapter 9 Verse 11 story.
It is just flat out tabloid journalism garbage.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
This crap is no better than the John McCain is the father of a black illegitimate baby story spread by the Bush campaign in 2000 in South Carolina.
Just garbage.
And WS Clark is still here? What happened to the “I am leaving and never coming back”? Or, can’t we trust what WS says?
WS,
I challenge you, just what is the plan that the Democrat’s have?
Enlighten me if you can.
Like I said previously, the Democrats aren’t much different than the Republcans, Libertarians, etc.
History shows this to be true in the last 5-10 years.
“So it is not true that Obama’s step Father was a Muslim?”
It would make a difference just as it would make a difference that George W Bush’ grandfather was a Nazi collaborator, and therefore should have been tried for treason.
Should that have disqualified Georgie from running for president?
If not, then there is nothing to discuss.
Let’s see…by WS’s “logic”, because some Republicans acted badly in history, then you cannot trust any of them. Talk about broad generalizations. I could use the same “logic” here and say that all Democrats are womanizing drunk drivers because of Ted Kennedy. But, that is a totally ridiculous statement–because it is a false generalization.
However, WS will never admit that there is a possibility that people who have other opinions just might have a valid thought. Doesn’t matter, he has already proven he cannot be believed.
WS,
You are of many words.
Do not stumble on them.
The Democrats plan for what? Bipartisanship?
They have the same plan for bipartisanship as Denny Hassert had…………….
Dance sock puppets, Dance!! Have fun!!
“However, WS will never admit that there is a possibility that people who have other opinions just might have a valid thought.”
You mean, like the valid thoughts that the Republicans considered from the Democrats since 1994?
Like those?
And……………..
“some Republicans acted badly”
Some Republicans?!?!?!
That was your party’s PLATFORM!
Ask Newt.
When the Republicans apologize for impeachment, then I MIGHT believe that they are interested in bipartisanship.
By the way, Taz, the Ted Kennedy body count is the same as Laura Bush’ count.
One.
At least Ted had the excuse that it was dark and he was drunk.
Laura killed her ex-boyfriend in broad daylight.
WS,
Please lucidly detail the current Democratic parties plan for the future of America:
___________________________________________
Just to clarify…it is not MY party’s platform. Republicans are not my party. Neither are Democrats, for that matter. I fail to see much difference between either one.
“Republicans are not my party.”
Did the John Birch Society kick you out?
Yeah, “Chas.” You’re probably right.
But if I don’t respond to trolls, people will think I’m not paying attention to WE Blog.
The original Obama/madrassa falsehood showed up in “Insight” magazine and that pushed a button with me.
“Insight” is a subsidiary to Rev. Moon’s “Washington Times,” and I’ve dealth with them personally. Back during the Monica Lewenski thing I was working as the token liberal on a right-wing talk radio station in Kansas City.
All of a sudden, “Insight” came out with “Arlington-gate.” Remember that one? “Insight” claimed that Bill Clinton was selling burial sites in Arlington National Cemetary for campaign donations. I said on the air that if that charge were true, I’d give up defending Clinton once and for all.
Then we determined “Arlington-gate” was whole-cloth fabrication. I was on the phone with the writer of the story who admitted, “We just make s#it up here. But it’s a paycheck.”
“World News Weekly,” with its *EXCLUSIVES!!!* about Marilyn Monroe shacking up with Elvis Presley in a Muncie, Indiana trailer park has more credibility than “Insight” magazine.
Of course, “American, of the USA” is a sockpuppet troll. And I shouldn’t bother.
Obama isn’t even my favored candidate. But I have a cousin who listens to all the reich-wing crap ane believes every word. She’s also made and lost fortunes over the years by buying into assorted pyramid schemes. Still, she’s a functioning adult person and there are a lot of people out there who may seem to be sane, but believe the propaganda spewed by the Faux Noise Channel.
But you’re probably right, “Chas.” We should not argue with them. We should not castigate them. We should not attempt to rectify their foolishness. We should, as good Christians, accept their insanity, embrace them as misguided fellow humans…
… and operate on their brains.
It was the “Republicans have been the party of ideas” and evoking Reagan did Obama in for me.
A Democrat does NOT say such things.
Yeah the Republicans have been the party of ideas. Lotsa bad ones. They have any number more they’d like to “work with us” on.
Just like their “contract for America” was more of a contact ON America. To ruin it as we know it.
My vote in Kansas means likely almost nothing anyway but I’m sorry, I cannot vote for this man. And I am telling you, Republicans cannot be worked with. Look who they treat Ron Paul, one of their own for heavens sake.
If there is still a contest by time for the Kansas caucus, I very much want to go. You can only exchange so much in this forum.
I want to measure the manner of Obama supporters in person. I want them to look me in the eye and tell me the guy is not the weak sister I THINK he is.
Show me the candidate on the other side who wants to be accommodating. You can’t. They don’t work that way. And I’m GLAD our side can still think like this:
“…the politics of optimism and hope on the one hand vs. the politics of cynicism, and perpetrating the old political paradigms that have defined federal politics for too long.”
Optimism has to be tempered with reality. Hope is often the only thing the desperate have left to cling to and politics is the way it is and we didn’t make it that way except by the very sort of accomodation you seek.
Purty desparate for insults there, aren’t you? That was uncalled for.
Reg, er, American USA……………
Democrat Platform……………
Balance the Federal Budget.
End the War on Iraq.
Address the health care issue for American children, then Americans overall.
Reform the tax code, absent the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
Provide for secure borders for America and address the issue of illegal immigrants.
Provide incentives to invest in alternative energy sources to reduce dependence on foreign oil.
Address the issue of Global Climate Change realistically and provide balanced programs to protect the planet.
Rebuild America’s image throughout the world to undo the eight years of damaged caused by George W Bush.
Close Gitmo and end torture.
Rebuild our armed forces after the draining effects of Iraq.
Capture Osama bin Laden and try him for crimes against the American people.
End the Bush Administrations policy of Imperial Presidency and ensure that it never happens again.
Turn George W Bush and Dick Cheney over to the International Court for trial for war crimes.
Have responsible adults address the solvency issue of Social Security and Medicaid/Medicare.
Outlaw the Republican Party for the next generation so that America can avoid going further in debt.
As ever, well said Monkeyhawk. Especially that last.
You want a barometer of the enemy? Paulthecon is your guy. There is NO more purely partisan hack foot soldier in this forum on EITHER side. Note how he PLEADS with us to make Senator Clinton the nominee and meanwhile posts every single negative lie and half truth he can dig up on President and Senator Clinton. It’s utterly transparent. “Please nominate who I hate so much. Here’s why you shouldn’t!”
Juvenile
I don’t hate anyone.
Not the Clintons.
Not even you.
Hillary has a role in life.
Her role is to help Republicans win, and I am sure she will do a good job.
Interesting platform there…let;s see. The last time there was a Democratic president, he substantially REDUCED the military. The Democratic administration did not sign the Kyoto treaty in 1992. The Democratic administration spent more money trying to break up Microsoft than persuing Osama Bin Ladin.
Seems that some of those platform goals listed are not really similar to the actions of the last democratic president..are they?
Oh yeah…and ‘image’…after this country was made the laughing stock of the country with the antics of our President in the Oval Office with an intern. Yep…image building was a high priority for the last democratic administration.
Good grief, here they go again on Kyoto!! Just cant let 14 year old crap alone… Amazing!!
Lets all gang up on good old Herbert Hoover, for a few months!! LOL
“The last time there was a Democratic president, he substantially REDUCED the military.”
That reduction began under George HW Bush after the end of the Cold War.
“The Democratic administration spent more money trying to break up Microsoft than persuing Osama Bin Ladin.”
When Bill tried to get bin Laden with a cruise missile, the Republicans tried to accuse him of “wagging the dog.” NO Republican supported him, yet after 9/11 they all criticized him for his (lack) of action.
As I said, never trust a Republican further than you can throw him.
“after this country was made the laughing stock of the country with the antics of our President in the Oval Office with an intern.”
Around the world, the impeachment of Bill Clinton was viewed as partisan politics at it’s worst and his involvement with an intern was viewed as no big deal.
You are just full of (nonsense) Taz, as if that is your real nic.
The real laughing stock in the world is George W Bush and his Cowboy Diplomacy.
“The Democratic administration did not sign the Kyoto treaty in 1992″
There was no Democratic Administration in 1992, that was the last year of the George Herbert Walker Bush Administration, with his trusty sidekick, Dan “Potatoe” Quayle.
“Because she has Bill” is risking fate of this country with that thinking.
The Bush family takes that personally. Their goal is keep power. Don’t be surprised if Jeb Bush in the GOP’s “surprise” at the convention as a Vice President, especially if Hillary wins the Dem nomination.
GOP will prep Jeb for 2012 and he will win. The Bush’s have supporters in Energy and among more wealthy. If they lose temporary access to White House power, those forces want it back by 2012.
Can’t say No More Bush when your wanting another Clinton. It’s personal between those families trying to beat each other as Presidents.
Future Presidential candidates can be women, its because Hillary has Bill is her problem.
Bill keeps making statements becoming more partisan everyday. He ranted about Culinary Union at large voting places in Casino’s where most of the workers were employed. Then he accused the Union suppressed votes.
Like political tricks at voting time never happened before to benefit him! His complaint is almost saying voters in Nevada were too unfamiliar with the Caucus process or they were stupid and had to do what the Union told them.
Brenda here did better than Bill gave her credit but she is risking another Bush as President if she gives Hillary the vote in November.
Brenda Santiago, a housekeeper at nearby Harrah’s hotel and casino, arrived shortly before Noon. Although she is a member of the Culinary Workers Union, which supported Mr. Obama, she said she had been determined to choose her favorite candidate on her own.
And that, she said, was Senator Clinton.
“I have my own opinions,” said Ms. Santiago, 46. “Hillary has more experience – and she has Bill!”
She has Bill, is risking Democrats in 2010 when the lose more seats in Congress. Partisanship is going get worse in D.C. Less will happen that Hillary hopes to accomplish.
Hillary has less experience as a Senator than Obama. He worked in the streets, created social policy for the people.
Hillary worked for a law firm and has been First Lady a couple of times. She has no more managerial experience than Obama. She’s met more people in the world is about it.
The world will think voters here are stupid to keep voting the “Royal families” into office.
Pentagon stats:
Since the end of the Gulf War, our military has shrunk by 40 percent. Army divisions have dropped from 18 to 10. The Army has reduced its ranks by more than 630,000 soldiers and civilians and closed over 700 installations at home and overseas.
* Since 1990, the Air Force has shrunk from 36 fighter wings (active and reserve) to 20. The Air Force has downsized by nearly 40 percent while simultaneously experiencing a fourfold increase in operational commitments.
* At the height of the Reagan Administration build-up, the Navy had 586 ships. As of 1999, it had only 324. The Clinton Administration’s blueprint called for that number to further drop to 305.
Nonsense? Okaaay. If that is what you want to believe. The facts are there…but ignore them all you want.
WS,
I agree with you on the below:
Balance the Federal Budget. (Government should be operated as a business and be held accountable to balance it’s books).
End the War on Iraq (Only after Irag can sustain itself as a democratic republic).
Provide for secure borders for America and address the issue of illegal immigrants.(By sealing the borders and returning all illegal aliens)
Provide incentives to invest in alternative energy sources to reduce dependence on foreign oil.
Rebuild America’s image throughout the world.
End torture.(Depends on the definition).
Rebuild our armed forces after the draining effects of Iraq.
Capture Osama bin Laden and try him for crimes against the American people.
I disagree with you on the below:
Address the health care issue for American children, then Americans overall. (The government should not be involved with healthcare other than with incentives – There should not be a universal healthcare system – i.e. UK, France, Canada, etc.)
Reform the tax code, absent the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.(I believe tax cuts should continue, but only with simultaneous debt reduction)
Address the issue of Global Climate Change realistically and provide balanced programs to protect the planet.(I belive that man only slightly changes the climate and it is enduring a natural cycle).
Close Gitmo. (Detainees are not US Citizens. They should not be tried as citizens and do not come under the constitution)
End the Bush Administrations policy of Imperial Presidency and ensure that it never happens again.(No comment)
Turn George W Bush and Dick Cheney over to the International Court for trial for war crimes.(Uncalled for).
Have responsible adults address the solvency issue of Social Security and Medicaid/Medicare.(Privatization is necessary).
Outlaw the Republican Party for the next generation so that America can avoid going further in debt. (Bring the Whig party back or have only one party?)
A few more Democratic Party planks for the platform…
Appoint Mary Cheney to the position of Director of the Gay and Lesbian Outreach and have her try to explain her opposition to gay and lesbian marriage.
Arrange a military draft of Republicans that have never served in uniform, but are pro-war. Send those same Republicans to Iraq in a combat role, picking up IED’s. Some obvious candidates would be Rush “Cyst on My Ass” Limbaugh, Tom DeLay, Sean Hannity, Bill Orally, Denny Hassert, Ann “the Man” Coulter, Glenn Beck, John Boner, Trent “Cheerleader” Lott, Brit Hume, Cal “the Cadaver” Thomas, Dick “Last Throes” Cheney, Condi Rice and Michael Savage.
“End torture.(Depends on the definition).”
So, even though it is against the Geneva Conventions and to violate those makes us no better than the North Koreans and al Qaeda, you are STILL in favor of torture?
I thought WE were supposed to be the good guys, with HIGH standards of human rights.
Christ, even John McCain is against torture.
This isn’t an episode of 24.
“Address the health care issue for American children, then Americans overall. (The government should not be involved with healthcare”
You sound like my father who has been on Medicare for 27 years yet wants to see SCHIP abolished.
If the government does not want to be involved with healthcare, then they shouldn’t be involved with corporate welfare, farm subsidies and tax credits and incentives for corporations.
If it is not good enough for the American working poor, then it should not be good enough for American corporation.
No health care, no more breaks for corporations.
Screw them, according to the GOP?
Then screw the corporations.
“but only with simultaneous debt reduction)”
When has the Republican Party EVER made the slightest,, itsy bitsy DENT in the National Debt.
Answer: Never.
The GOP is the most hypocritical party known to humankind when it comes to responsible spending.
At least the Democrats had a “pay as you go” policy.
“(Uncalled for).”
Why? We executed Nazis and Japanese after the Second World War for the exact same things that the Bush Administration is doing now.
“Close Gitmo. (Detainees are not US Citizens. They should not be tried as citizens and do not come under the constitution)”
If a foreign country did THIS to our citizens, we would be justifiable enraged…………. yet we expect the rest of the world to ignore our detention of foreign nationals without trial or access to legal council?
How many of the Gitmo prisoners have been released to their home countries without trial and with no charges against them?
Of those released, nearly all have been released without charge and that totals more than half the original detainees …………..
What does that say?
“(Privatization is necessary).”
How are you going to pay for it?
If you take $1 trillion out of FICA contributions, then you will immediately add $1 trillion to the deficit and therefore the National Debt.
We already have a $9 trillion debt, most of it borrowed from the Chinese and Japanese.
How much more can we borrow?
WS,
Who said anything about Republican?
WS,
There is much debate about what “Torture” means.
What does it mean?
“The facts are there…but ignore them all you want.”
And you conveniently ignored the fact that the reductions began under GHWB, Reg., er, Taz.
‘Splain that, Lucy.
WS,
The federal government, though, should not be involved in a lot of things it’s involved with, like several od the departments (Education, etc). Education should be from the state.
WS,
The point I am making is that the government is doing a lot of things that it should not be doing today – and that is why we are in so much debt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is trying to provide for everybody and to include everything they want and that is not possible!
A chicken in every pot.
A car in every garage.
Healthcare for everybody.
When will it end?
“There is much debate about what “Torture” means.”
For starters, waterboarding. We executed Nazis for waterboarding prisoners during WW II.
The Geneva Conventions are pretty damned clear and we, as a supposed civilized nation, should abide by them, even if the enemy sometimes does not.
After all, we are supposed to be better than them.
“When will it end?”
We can give corporations every damned thing that they want, but we can’t provide healthcare for the children of the poor and working poor of this nation?
And some would call us a Christian Nation?
Bullshit.
My point, which has not be refuted, that your alleged claim of Democratic platform of rebuilding the military does not have recent historical support. Regardless of “who started it”, my point is still valid.
And, mea culpa on the date, was a typo. There was a Kyoto conference in Rio in 1992, but the signing ceramony in 1993 where the US did not sign.
WS,
Do corporations provide jobs?
Do corporations share in healthcare premiums?
Do corporations pay wages and provide other benefits?
Do churches and church ministries provide assistance to the poor and the working poor.
Do individuals make donations to relief organizations?
Look at some of the 3rd world nations out there.
We as a country are better off than they.
Our poor are better of than some of there best.
What are you doing to donate to churches and church ministries and relief organizations?
That’s where we as a Christian Nation need to come into the picture.
Clinton edged out Obama in Nevada by 6 percentage points, but oddly, Obama got more delegates because of where he won the caucuses (urban for her, rural for him).
Obviously, Edwards is pulling a lot of votes away from Obama.
I’d like to see Obama announce Edwards as his VP and have Edwards drop out. That may be the only way they can stop the corporatists (”lobbyists are good”) from putting the Ice Queen into power . . .
I like your thinking there, Capn. Do you think the Kerry endorsement would have any impact on Edwards working with Obama?
taz,
Please explain to me why the US should sign the Kyoto agreement, if you do.
Man has little effect on the climate change, even though there are those who believe we are and can reverse that trend.
How long back in time does the record of temperatures of the earth exist?
Taz–
Our military does not need to be “rebuilt.”
We spend 51 percent of all income taxes on the military. That doesn’t include payments on the national debt that the military has incurred.
We spend more money on our military than all the countries of the world COMBINED.
The reason that we spend so much on our military is because it is a good way for gov’t to provide welfare to big, powerful multinational corporations.
Halliburton, once run by Vice President Dick Cheney, is the perfect example of that. There are 758 US military bases and installations outside of the country. A branch of Halliburton (Kellogg, Brown and Root) is contracted to feed and house all the soldiers at every one of those bases.
It’s called socialism for the rich.
The Ice Queen HRC is already the ordained DNC candidate.
Good.
We also spend a higher rate of Gross Domestic Product on our military than any other industrialized country. Most spend between 1 and 2.5 percent of GDP.
We spend closer to 5 percent. Under Reagan, we spent 8 percent.
We may need to restructure the military so that we actually fund our military instead of huge multinationals feeding at the trough, but we sure don’t need to “rebuild” it.
America…I wasn’t saying the US should sign, but was saying that the reluctance to sign it by a previous Democratic president doesn’t support WS’s claim of a Democratic platform.
Capn..same thing…I don’t necessarily say the military should be rebuilt. WS claimed it was one of the Democrat platforms, and I was simply pointing out that the Democratic party doesn’t have a recent history of building up the military.
“A branch of Halliburton (Kellogg, Brown and Root) is contracted to feed and house all the soldiers at every one of those bases.”
Evidently CapnAmerica hasn’t been to many overseas bases and posts or he’d know that most housing and dining facilities are ran by the military with a mixture of the local population, civil service and military.
Must be a DU news source, where if they don’t know the facts, they just make them up.
Xiao Jing Gu, a Bellagio housekeeper, held a sign reading, “I support my union. I support Hillary.” She said she was hooked by the Bill Clinton connection. “He did so many good things for this country,” she said. “Now his wife will do the same.”
Clinton supporters…beyond balancing the Fed budget, what good things did Bill do? I voted for him twice. Is my memory shot?
Can’t Hillary get your complete support without mentioning Bill?
Say NO to Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton
CapnAmerica,
Do you think the federal government should bail out (give aid to) those are suffering from the sub-prime loan crisis?
This is what Obama wants to do.
“Frum has a pretty interesting theory about what will happen to Republics if they lose in 2008. He thinks the Republics may be in the wilderness for quite a while, mostly because they’ll spend a lot of time trying to nominate a “real” conservative in 2012. By “real conservative,” Frum meant a Matrix-like The One, ie a Reagan-esque party uniter. According to Frum, due to where Bush has led the party today, if they lose this November they’ll likely lose again in 2012 as they Reagan-ize the GOP the way the Democrats McGovern-ized that party in 1972. In other words, if the Republics don’t move to the middle to win this November then they won’t move to the middle (ie, win) for a long time to come.”
I think your guy Frum is spot on Pedant. Good post.
The Republicans are scared. No strike that.
They are petrified.
They sense impending doom and they don’t know what to do to escape it. Some of them, the real zombies, tell everyone else that everything is fine. They’re really trying to convince themselves.
I remember 2004. The exit polls did not look good for bush. Of course the fix was in in Ohio. But no one knew that. Right wing radio shill Sean Hannity that day was near tears. He wheedled and pleaded like a small child.
They are afraid they are about to be out of power for a very long time. Do you know how crazy it is?
Some of them WANT Senator Clinton to win! SO unhappy with their own nominees and the gathering storm, they have AND confess that only this way can a true Conservative rise. They just KNOW CLinton will be worse than Carter (who really was not that bad but they think so) and ol’ Ronnie will rise from the grave or some Arthurian stand in will from obscurity and draw a sword from a stone. It’s weirdly supersticious and speaks to deep, deep fear.
THAT is why there must be no compromises. When goons like these are down, ya don’t extend a hand.
You stomp them into the dirt.
Interesting that Clinton won Nevada with the popular vote, but lost in the number of delegates. According to CNN, Clinton won 12 Delegates, Obama won 13.
I don’t like the dynasty thing anymore than you do Mrage.
I’ll caucus for Kucinich. But Obama is talking working with people ya can’t work with. Do we remember just how much damage they’ve done?
They called ketchup a vegetable as to school lunches! They killed SCHIP. They’ve let manufacture in this country disappear with “free” trade agreements. How many more do I need to list?
American of the Dept. of Redundancy Dept.–
Bail out may not be the best response, but the US government owes these folks something.
By failing in its oversight role, the government allowed this problem to occur. It didn’t happen when previous Presidents were in office, did it?
It happened when Worst. President. Ever. told regualtors to back off.
I think that government should be responsible for the problems it creates.
Hillary wants to give some criminals a clean slate after prison, because they made mistakes that shouldn’t affect them their whole life.
That’s a liberal and I’m not one. Don’t think I ever was.
Obama had the “heresy” to mention Ronald Reagan as a change agent. Liberals hate Reagan with a passion.
Hillary voted for Reagan honoring day, why? If she had no good feeling about him or his policies.
Obama mentioned Reagan’s “dirty deeds” in a book he wrote. Obama simply said Reagan changed American politics more than Bill Clinton did.
Reagan sent Rumsfeld to Iraq in 1983, that changed course of our economics. Since then military has done something expensive in that country.
Hillary can vote Yes for Reagan day but criticize Obama for mentioning his name.
Democrats can seperate themselves from liberals, choosing between Obama and Hillary.
Obama will get Republican votes in a general election. Republican pundits didn’t think Obama said anything wrong about Reagan.
Reagan create bad policies but he was a better Republican than the Bush’s.
JR–
The opposite of reich-wing ideologues isn’t necessarily a left-wing ideologue. They’re the one who try to destroy their political opponents.
The opposite of right-wingers could be people who work together . . . too.
CapnAmerica,
It is called protecting our interests and providing stability worldwide.
Someone has to feed the troops overseas.
All you do is quote some percentage, yet you never really look at what the money provides.
Do you have some real figures for us or is simply throwing false information around your forte?
JR
Not all Republican are bad. Bush has railroaded them to voting his way. He had Rove and Cheney to attack them in ways that don’t make the paper.
Rove and Cheney influenced if Republicans got re-elected.
Obama wants to do business with Tiahart, probably not! He’s been too eager a rubber stamper.
Obama can work with more Republicans than Hillary could.
J R,
The problem with what you said about Schip has to do with every other bill in the Congress. There is too much pork interlaced with every bill that comes through.
Another reason why we are spending too much and why we need the line item veto.
And J R – nobody out here is afraid or petrified. Get a life!
I said:
Nevada
Romney / Obama
SC
Huckabee/ Obama
Well, I was right on the Delegates in Nevada.
I was surprised that Obama didn’t win the popular vote there. Some say Hispanic casino workers did not follow their Union endorsement of Obama.
Anyway, I was definately wrong in SC on the Republican side. It was close, however, maybe less than 3%. McCain is still counting on the independents to win.
From here, I don’t see how Huck pulls it off.
Actually, McCain has a rough road, as well.
Romney leads in Delegates, even after South Carolina.
This is all good if it forces McCain and Huck to the right. I think it will.
—-
I still say Obama next week, in South Carolina.
That would give me 3 out of 4, on my last prediction.
—-
I am looking at Rudy.
Rudy MIGHT be a genious, or Rudy might be a complete joke.
Rudy is banking on the “winner take all” states. He could quickly pull ahead with Florida. I don’t know if he can come in first, as a “late player”.
WS,
Are you still there?
I haven’t heard from you in a while.
American
Agreed.
Republicans are survivors. We don’t depend on government. We don’t need government like some of our liberal friends seem to need government.
We believe what we believe because we truly think Republican principles are better for the entire country.
When, on occassion, the country does not agree with us, we just wait and they come back.
Nathan — Last nite, I requested a Link from KsGrm on her insinuations against Gore… I didnt get one… Why should CapN give you one now?? As I was told then, Go do your own research!
Chas,
Why is it that you feel the need to constantly get in the middle of almost every discussion I am in?
LOL — General principle!!
Chas,
CapnAmerica asserted that 768 American bases are all fed by KBR.
I would like to know his source. I think he is full of crap.
What ksgrm did or didn’t do last night has no bearing on that.
Chas,
Princple leads you to get involved in my discussions?
Sad, that as a Christian, you have more principle to do that than acknowledge what you believe about Christ.
Juvenile.
Is ketchup fruit?
Is ketchup meat?
Is ketchup poultry?
Is Ketchup fish?
Is ketchup dairy?
It had to be classified.
What, exactly, would you call it?
You have many cliches but little knowledge of actual events.
“JR
Not all Republican are bad. ”
Well that’s SORTA true.
There’s a large number of working people who vote Republican. They’re not bad per se. They’re just misguided.
But REAL Republicans? The movers and shakers in the party like paulthecon? Yeah. They are bad.
It was classified as a vegetable to fulfill a nutritional requirement you liar. It wasn’t called that to define it. It HAD a definition. It was a condiment.
Mrage? You wanna work with people like these?
Religion has nothing to do with it!!
I repeatedly state on this Blog that I am a Christian, but since Nathan never learned to read, he keeps denying it!! LOL What a friggin JOKE!!
Nathan–
I heard it on “CSPAN” a couple of days ago. I’ll see if I can google it.
Meanwhile, here’s what I heard on Bill Moyers’ Journal last night . . . basically the same idea.
One of Moyers’ guests was a long-time New York Times correspondent who recently came out with a book entitled Free Lunch, about how government provides massive subsidies (or “welfare” if you prefer) to rich companies and individuals.
GW Bush made his personal fortune not in business, but in speculating in land bought by cronies for the arena for the Texas Rangers. Land was seized by eminent domain for less than it was worth, and then sold for much more to speculators.
Our future Worst. President. Ever. cashed in on this government largesse to the tune of 14 million dollars, just another important biographical fact our “liberal” media couldn’t find the time to report on.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/transcripts/index.html
FREE LUNCH: HOW THE WEALTHIEST AMERICANS ENRICH THEMELVES AT GOVERNMENT EXPENSE (AND STICK YOU WITH THE BILL.) The author is another of America’s top investigative reporters — David Cay Johnston of THE NEW YORK TIMES. He’s won the Pulitzer Prize and the George Polk Award and many other accolades over his forty years as a journalist.
BILL MOYERS: You remember what Art Modell said back in 1996 when he was manipulating Baltimore and Cleveland into a bidding war for his football team? He was asked how he felt about taking money for his own pocket at the very same time library funds were being cut. Remember what he said?
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Oh, yes. The pride of having a professional baseball team is worth more than 30 libraries.
BILL MOYERS: George W. Bush.
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Well, this is one– this is a great irony. George Bush owes almost his entire fortune to a tax increase that was funneled into his pocket and into the use of eminent domain laws to essentially legally cheat other people out of their land for less than it was worth to enrich him and his fellow investors.
BILL MOYERS: By building this stadium in Arlington, Texas
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: For the Texas Rangers.
BILL MOYERS: –baseball team– Texas Rangers.
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Right.
BILL MOYERS: That’s right.
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: One of the key sources I quote is a prominent Republican lawyer married to a United States senator who is the expert in Texas on municipal finance. The subsidy, he says, is $202.5 million. And Bush and his partners captured about 168 million of it.
BILL MOYERS: Bush, you say, used eminent domain to claim the land on which the stadium was built, right?
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Right.
BILL MOYERS: And Bush advised his investors, his co-investors this is a sweet deal …
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Oh, yeah. He said that I mean, here’s this money losing team. It’s got this little stadium. It can’t make money. But if we can get a stadium built, it’ll be worth a lot of money. And that’s going on all over the country. All you have to do is get the stadium built and we’ll– you’ll be rich.
******
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: You know, we used to put people to death 500 years ago for loaning money for interest. And for a long time the government regulated the kind of interest that you could charge. And then we had a Supreme Court decision in 1978. And the Supreme Court in that said, you know, ’cause the way the law’s written we’re basically undoing the usury laws in this country. And Congress, pay attention, you need to do something to address this. Well, Congress did. Discovered it was a fabulous way to milk banks and related companies for campaign contributions. And they did for years and years and years and years. Now you turn on your television and there’s Gary Coleman, the former child star-
BILL MOYERS: Right.
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: –promoting a loan where they’ll put the money right into your bank account over the telephone, calling in on the telephone, at 99.25 percent interest. Almost two points a week. When I wrote that I was thinking about a mob guy who was a loan shark and what he would have thought because he spent some time in prison for loan sharking if he were still alive about these ads where now big corporations are doing what he used to do. Except they don’t break your legs, they just take your house.
The principle is: What goes around comes around!
:roll:
Well, I have an early Eucharist tomorrow, so I need to say good night!!
Good Night; Good Luck; and
God Bless; whatever you conceive
God to b!!
Blessings all!!
May the best NFL teams win tomorrow!!
CapnAmerica,
You head what on CSPAN? That KBR is contracted to feed 768 military bases?
Good luck finding that.
Chas,
Exactly. Religion has nothing to do with. Just like what ever happened between ksgrm and you or whomever has nothing to do with my conversation with CapnAmerica.
Well, then Nathan, just laugh it off, and move on… Thats what I am doing… Actually, it was more of an observation than anything… It certainly was not directed at YOU personally… just observing a pattern… Nothing more or less!! Certainly on an open Blog, I can make an observation now and then…
You have good night now, ok??
You too Chas.
I couldn’t find exactly the transcript, Nathan, but I did find that number of overseas bases and installations is well over 700.
http://www.kelebekler.com/occ/bas_gb.htm
This one above lists 725.
The following source says this:
At Least Seven Hundred Foreign Bases
It’s not easy to assess the size or exact value of our empire of bases. Official records on these subjects are misleading, although instructive. According to the Defense Department’s annual “Base Structure Report” for fiscal year 2003, which itemizes foreign and domestic U.S. military real estate, the Pentagon currently owns or rents 702 overseas bases in about 130 countries and HAS another 6,000 bases in the United States and its territories.
These numbers, although staggeringly large, do not begin to cover all the actual bases we occupy globally. The 2003 Base Status Report fails to mention, for instance, any garrisons in Kosovo — even though it is the site of the huge Camp Bondsteel, built in 1999 and maintained ever since by Kellogg, Brown & Root. The Report similarly omits bases in Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Qatar, and Uzbekistan, although the U.S. military has established colossal base structures throughout the so-called arc of instability in the two-and-a-half years since 9/11.
For Okinawa, the southernmost island of Japan, which has been an American military colony for the past 58 years, the report deceptively lists only one Marine base, Camp Butler, when in fact Okinawa “hosts” ten Marine Corps bases, including Marine Corps Air Station Futenma occupying 1,186 acres in the center of that modest-sized island’s second largest city. (Manhattan’s Central Park, by contrast, is only 843 acres.) The Pentagon similarly fails to note all of the $5-billion-worth of military and espionage installations in Britain, which have long been conveniently disguised as Royal Air Force bases. If there were an honest count, the actual size of our military empire would probably top 1,000 different bases in other people’s countries, but no one — possibly not even the Pentagon — knows the exact number for sure, although it has been distinctly on the rise in recent years.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-08.htm
Kellogg, Brown and Root is the biggest supplier of food and housing to the troops, so the information I posted is entirely consistent with the facts found.
CapnAmerica,
Neither of those links makes the assertion that KBR feeds all those bases.
What you posted doesn’t either.
I wasn’t disputing that we had a large number of bases, just your claims that KBR was supplying them all.
Which you still have not shown to be true.
By the way, you might try to find a real source, not an article from commondreams.
Walk into any base or post in Korea or Germany and you will find GI’s and local nationals. You won’t find Kellogg, Brown and Root employees.
Neither country would allow the jobs to be contracted. Those countries are quite jealous of their good paying jobs with their benefits and won’t let a contractor spoil it.
I always love how the liberals will sit here and deride our military budget.
Yet when it comes time to use the military then they are the first ones to accuse Bush of going to war with out proper equipment.
If the liberals had their way, we would be throwing rocks and wearing leather armor.
Wouldn’t that be great? Then no innocents would end up as “collateral damage”, war would just be a bunch of guys dukeing it out with each other in a distant field somewhere….that’s how all wars should be fought.
Dodah,
No, all the other countries would have better equipment and would merely wipe the floor with our men and women’s blood.
It is our technology which reuduces collateral damage.
Would you rather we carpet bomb an entire city to blow up one factory or is it worth having a smart bomb which can be fired from a stealth bomber hitting exactly what it was told to hit?
I was thinking how nice it would be if the whole world only had rocks to throw at each other…then there wouldn’t be over 100,000 dead Iraqi men, women, and children as a result of our “smart bombs”…
Dodah,
The fact that you actually think that 100,000 Iraqi’s were killed by our smart bombs reveals to me that you have no idea what you are talking about.
So how many have died at our hands, Nathan? How many would still be alive if we never invaded their country?
Suely you don’t think the suicide bombers have killed more Iraqis than the Americans have. Sounds liek you’re the one who is in denial.
Dodah,
Yes, I think that the suicide bombers have killed more Iraqi’s than the Americans have.
It is not a matter of denial. It is a matter of knowing how our military functions and what actually happens.
I am pretty sure the total death toll of Iraqi’s is above 100,000.
The causes of those deaths are from a multitude of things. Not American bombs.
I think the 120,000 death in Iraq is from all causes, not just combat. It includes natural death, illness, injury, suicide attacks, ethnic violence and etc.
Looks like your ready to affix blame Dodah. As an American you already shoulder some of the blame in the some eyes.
So welcome to your share of the death burden.
I should have said:
Not JUST American bombs or primarily American boms like you tried to claim.
Couldnt resist asking what has happened to the main theme of this thread? When my desk is messy, its usually a sign I have been working a lot. And even though it appears messy to someone looking in, I know where everything is that I need.
My hunch is that Obama’s desk is the same way.
Well, you all carry on. Just taking a look at that great Editorial comment on all of the lies being told about Obama, and his family, and his background. With all of that, seems like a messy desk is the least of his worries. That and losing in Nevada.
OK – Gonna put the Nathan/JR war to bed for good. This is the post that got many things started. This was back on Christmas Day:
“Nathan Posted December 25, 2007 at 6:19 pm | Permalink
JR,
I am not “speculating” on your motives.
I am commenting on your actions here, which ring of utter insincerity.
The “poster” which you have been talking about and continue to do so has a name. Not using the name doesn’t change the fact that you are indeed talking about him.
You have yet to add one substantive thing to this conversation other than trying to demean me or my father.
Shouldn’t you be looking at all your underage teenage girls websites getting your jollies right about now?”
It would appear that Nathan over-stepped some very important boundaries with that post. And I think that is what JR is seeking an apology for.
I think, from the looks of this post, that an apology might just be in order. Dont you think, Nathan?
I can only hope that this will put the Nathan/JR battle on the far back burner of the Blog. I hope you all have a very nice weekend. See you soon!
Sugar use your real name which is Chas.
Then stop being so bossy.
You are so mean.
It’s worth reading many different news websites trying to frame this election.
Quite a few of them didn’t like the look of Nevada’s process. That state has too much union influence. It’s probably better if they have a primary in 2012.
The Culinary Union promoting Obama got too angry at the Teacher’s Union supporting Hillary.
Hillary thought the At-Large Casino voting would ruin her chances. The Teacher’s Union sued the Culinary Union.
So Teacher’s had to vote for Hillary? Culinary workers had to vote for Obama? Culinary won the lawsuit
Too much heavy pressure on union members in a process they were unfamiliar with.
The press is spinning statistics, how certain groups aren’t supporting each candidate.
Who won the delegates? That’s a fight Hillary and Obama.
Reporters saw aggressive out of towners running the caucus process, some screaming at LV citizens to pick one or the other. Some woman said, don’t curse Hillary because she’s a lady!
How can Obama fight that?
Hillary claims she had no influence on Teacher’s Union lawsuit. But she demands Obama take responsibility for the Culinary Union making a bad political radio ad about her. He didn’t create it or agree with beforehand.
Voting irregularity was reported. One woman said the aggression at one Caucus site was unsettling. Weren’t they Democrats from the same party? It seem too hurtful, the words being screamed between supporters.
Bill is being aggressive on Obama like he’s not in the same party at all. Hillary has to thank her husband, because he’s necessary for her to win.
Nevada was won, but it was costly on voters sense of politics. A primary would be better in Nevada in future years.
ksagnostic posted:
> A little soup for the troll…
> http://www.umaction.org/
Thanks! That happens to be one of *my* websites. Lots of information about Mark Tooley and his ilk is found there.
Peace.
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