New York Times columnist Frank Rich on Barack Obama and Mike Huckabee:
“The two men are the youngest candidates in the entire field, the least angry and the least inclined to seek votes by saturation-bombing us with the post-9/11 arsenal of fear. They both radiate the kind of wit and joy (and, yes, hope) that can come only with self-confidence and a comfort in their own skins.â€
Meanwhile, columnist David Brooks contrasted the differing leadership styles of Obama and John McCain, both of whom appeal to independents and want to end the political gridlock : “Obama and McCain both offer ways to end this gridlock. Obama wants us to rise above it by rediscovering our commonalities. McCain hopes (to) smash it with fierce honesty and independent action.â€
93 Comments
More news that Huckabee is a theocratic nutter. Giving a speech/sermon in a church he said, “When we become believers, it’s as if we have signed up to be part of God’s Army, to be soldiers for Christ.”
Doug,
You think that simply believing in God makes someone a nut.
Of course you think anything else would be the same.
Go back to your puddle of goo and magical spark.
I believe that Nathan? All the other candidates believe in God but the only one I’m calling a theocratic is Nathan. Isn’t it too early in the day to begin your tirade of lies?
Doug,
So at what point does someone become a nut in your opinion then?
Where is your line in what someone believes between their being a nut and not a nut?
You’re a nut, so you should be able to recognize your own.
Doug,
Please answer the question. You said there is a distinction and that I was wrong.
So where is the line?
Belief in a supernatural being doesn’t make someone a nut, but belief in being part of the Lords army, which is a very common theme amoungst Christians and isn’t meant to be taken literally, does make them a nut.
Is that correct Doug?
Where is your little judgemental line in calling someone a nut?
You have a failure to grasp reality. Despite obvious facts you think the world is 6,000 years old, there are bearded men living in clouds, you believe in magic, so on and so on. You’re a nut, like Huckabee.
Doug,
So what is the difference in belief in a supernatural being in which I can offer you no definitive evidence of and that said supernatural being created everything 6,000 years ago?
You are not answering the questions.
There is abundant, absolute, undeniable evidence that the planet and universe are more than 6,000 years old. When someone looks at reality and denies it and crawls into their fantasy world they have delusions, just as you do. Having imaginary friends in itself isn’t a sign of mental illness unless you start hearing actual voices from that imaginary friend. Someone at your age should be engaging in childish magical thinking. That is often outgrown at an early age, clearly you have some mental development problems. Apart from delusions do you suffer from hallucinations as well?
Looks like Gov. Huckabee has Dick Armey very concerned:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/huckabees_counterproductive_sw.html
The author of the link takes a shot at a writer at the Wall Street Journal, who apparently feels some of Mr. Armey’s concerns.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/its_not_hucks_faith_thats_got.html
Doug,
You still wont answer the question. You said I was a liar for saying you think that merely having belief in God makes someone a nut.
Several posts later you still won’t defend yourself.
So answer the questions:
Does belief in a supernatural being make someone a nut?
What is the difference in belief in a supernatural being and that said supernatural being created everything 6000 years ago in making someone a nut?
From your last comment, it appears as if you do think that the mere belief in God does make someone a nut since you are mocking my faith in one.
Vaughn, maybe the Republicans like their small town hick Jesus freaks as long as they take orders. Bush played the folksy, compassionate conservative card but followed his orders. They didn’t hand pick Huckabee to run so they are afraid he might actually be an independent Republican.
Here’s some more from the nutter’s sermon:
“When you give yourself to Christ, some relationships have to go,” he said. “It’s no longer your life; you’ve signed it over.”
Likening service to God to service in the military, Huckabee said “there is suffering in the conditioning for battle” and “you obey the orders.”
Sounds like this guy shares a lot in common with the folks who strap bombs onto themselves as they wade into crowded markets. God and guns, never a safe mix especially with a goon who thinks we are fighting a religious war with Islam.
Doug, it is my thought that the “change” for which Gov. Huckabee states he stands is very disconcerting to those in the GOP who really don’t want any changes…..
I’ve already answered your inquiries nutball. As expected your grasp on reality is so light you can’t deal with it. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch isn’t it? Grow up or seek therapy, your choice.
Doug,
So what is the difference between the Jesus freak Obama and the Jesus freak Huckabee?
Both believe in God. Both believe in Jesus. Both claim to be Christian.
So is Obama a nut as well?
I see you are still hard at work in mastering the Argumentum ad hominem logical fallacy.
The GOP is worried that Huckabee might actually use the American coffers to help people and not just corporations. Fascists often use the religious rhetoric along with helping people while braiding their conversations with militaristic rhetoric. The religious reich has already stated what they want to do with the “impure” elements of society. Torture is okay and folks like worm food Falwell said he’d happily shoot any gay person he saw if he could get away with it.
Quit thinking you have a grasp on logic Nathan. You might be smarter than a fifth grader but not by much. You are just bitter because you are a fascist nutter just like Huckabee.
Doug,
For someone who has so many better things to do, you sure have enough time to call people names and time enough to make this blog a worse place.
Just leave.
Humans can’t be generally categorized and placed in a box. However, journalists try and do that very thing.
An anthropologist examining human events may get an idea of what a civilization was like from artifacts, but can’t really tell what the people were really like. If the Chieftain of some ancient tribe was into ritualistic torture and sacrifice, he may be evaluated poorly because of our cultural directives and lack of exposures. At the time of the ancient civilization, perhaps the Chieftain was well liked and respected in his community.
We all have our anthropological and sociological filters that we put on when we view events.
Journalists honing in on Obama and Huckabee appear to be doing so from the macro view of past political climates. Is that fair? Perhaps, but I think if we examine the whole man or woman, we will find that outside of our political filters they are more alike than different.
What then is the divisive barrier that gets erected when we have political events?
I think it is that we are too close to the event to judge what is happening and we take the interpretation of a few journalists as being “gospel” when it comes to what is defining a candidate.
A small town mayor who is a Christian might get branded a nut when he tries to get ordinances passed that prohibit Adult content video stores. Is he a nut or using his own values to evaluate a situation. Is it unfair to use his values to evaluate a situation. I think the answer is no. This is why we have a democracy. If the people who elected the Mayor do not like his proposals, there are avenues to change it or change that the Mayor is actually in office.
Perhaps we all should step back and look at people in political campaigns as players in a theater of politics. They are not really being themselves, but actors on a stage with political props.
The acting critics, the journalists put their own spin on the political play. Is it a fair assessment? Fair perhaps, but not entirely accurate and it is from a single perspective.
Watching a play from behind the scenes can be revealing. Watching the play as a participant can also give new perspective. Doing all of those things to get perspective is the only way to achieve fair evaluation.
Soundbytes, “angled” photographs and narrowly focused views of a political setting only blinds us.
Enlightenment comes with a price – we must invest the time to step back, walk around and set ourselves apart from becoming a participant of the play. An observer must not succumb to their own prejudices to evaluate events.
Obama, Huckabee appeal to hope, not fear
Yes, I sure hope the Huckster is the Nominee!
It’s interesting watching the GOP heirarchy’s reactions to Kuckabee (VT’s links) and Ron Paul (keeping him out of the FAUX debate)
Has anyone heard any numbers since the early Dixville Notch returns?
The numbers I’m fretting is that of the Markets! Isn’t the Republicanonomy just super, right Max?
Phantom – it has been a bad several weeks.
Down more than 10% – I think that makes it officially a bear market.
Just saw most of my ‘07 gains evaporate in the ethereal mist of the Market!
Ben, no numbers other than those earlier announced, but the following link is interesting as to the turn out.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/08/nh.main/index.html
Somethings never change……….. Who is using what nics these days? Which nut cases have been banned and what nic-switchers have switched identities?
Read the weather’s nice, and big turnout. If the Dems. outnumber the Repubs. 2-1 again, it’ll be credited to the weather.
“the polling places were running low on Democratic ballots”
Record turnout should help Obama and McCain. With the Dem ballots being used so fast I’d guess Obama more.
WS Clark,
The one change which was nice was your departure.
Hopefully you have changed since then.
Hi WSC, good to see you! Some have changed nics, the format has a bit of a new look, otherwise everything is much the same.
Good to see ya WS.
You aint missed much. JM turned into “kansas” and then into just about any other nic.
Same old same old.
“The one change which was nice was your departure.”
Nathan, you’re such a good Christian boy. So nice to hear from you. I noticed that you still the same old hypocrite that you have always have been.
Like I said, nothing has changed.
And thanks, Linda……………… Glad to revisit the old stomping (intended) grounds.
Good to see you on the blog, J R. I hope all is well with you and yours………….
WS Clark,
Guess not.
Sorry Nathan, that I can’t live up to your HIGH standards, but SOME of us have to live in the reality based world…….
Hi WSC – welcome back.
Hey, I just stopped in for a minute…….. back later………..it’s time to make dinner for the family………..
Hey Nathan, while I am gone, work on that SCI-entific evidence that the Earth is just 6,000 years old………………
Hey Nathan,
Looks like lots of Christian-slapping going on! It gives me great pleasure to know that we’re the REAL majority in this country.
The demons in Hell believe that God exists, and tremble. (James 2:19)
Belief in the existence of God does not make one a nut, nor does it save one’s soul. Nor do our so-called high standards of conduct keep us from the burning pit.
But we children of God are bought with a Price, bad as we are, to keep us in His Kingdom – forever.
Someday, we’ll know why He wants so much to keep us around.
Maybe He just likes pets.
“The demons in Hell believe that God exists, and tremble. (James 2:19)
Belief in the existence of God does not make one a nut, nor does it save one’s soul. Nor do our so-called high standards of conduct keep us from the burning pit.
But we children of God are bought with a Price, bad as we are, to keep us in His Kingdom – forever.
Someday, we’ll know why He wants so much to keep us around.”
Yeah, saying things like that doesn’t help your sanity argument. Monsters under the bed? Aren’t you too old to still be believing in that nonsense?
Ever wonder why your god made the angels with the same number of chromosomes as humans so they could crossbreed and create the Nephilim? Sounds good in a fairy tale but really idiotic to actually believe this nonsense is true. Good not to elect a nut like Huckabee who believes the destruction of millions of Jews is a good thing because it will bring about heaven on Earth. Keep that guy’s finger off the button.
CLARK!
We miss you, man.
Don’t be a stranger . . .
JM-Kansas-Regular writes, “we take the interpretation of a few journalists as being ‘gospel’ when it comes to what is defining a candidate.”
Hey, Jeenyous–The pundits kept telling the voters that Hillary couldn’t be stopped and it was futile to even try.
Don’t let obvious facts affect your conclusions. You might not be such a knee-jerk CON then . . .
BTW, JM-Khan-Kansas-Regular, how’s that New Year’s Resolution to quit blogging here for all time working out for you?
Apparently, like the rest of your life, not too well.
Ya know, Doug. If the demons in hell know about an all-powerful God “and tremble,” why do they even bother?
If it were me, I’d just give up.
In addition to being really, really bad, demons are also apparently really, really stupid.
“CapnAmerica” –
“In addition to being really, really bad, demons are also apparently really, really stupid.”
Okay, that’s funny.
How long can you tread brimstone?
Just saw on tv. that the exit polls showed 93% primary voters are mad at boy George! Begs the question, with the mood of the public, why do Any Republicans waste their time and money on a futile effort?
Gives some hope for Kansas. Wouldn’t want to be running for re-election if I were Republic. The Sea Change is coming.
Hey Clark,
Good to see you. Hope to see you around here more.
“The one change which was nice was your departure.” That crack, from the boy who dispises ad hominems so much. Can you say hy-po-crite?
Sure! I knew you could!
OK to Doug, honestly reading your comments I was really surprised to see you even knew that verse. I am a Christian and Im hear to tell you MY GOD IS REAL and he is ALIVE!!!! There isnt anyone who can tell me he isnt reall and that he is nothing but a faiy tale. I have proof! He does miricas. Hopefully you will learn. Call me a NUT, A JESUS FREAK, call me what you wish but My God lives and is coming back soon! May Gods will be done this election!!!!! And Ill go ahead and say it You need pryer brother!!!(in a bad way!!)If I were you Id try a little church!
Welcome back WSClark! Hope you got rested and reloaded for Bear.
Doug, you appear desperate to reinforce your disbelief. Fine. If I had heard the Gospel and rejected God, I would want some emotional support (kind of like a stiff drink).
The only problem is that you don’t seem to know how to do it without disparaging other’s faith. It makes you appear very bitter.
But God never gives up.
“Give unto Cesar that which is Cesar’s and give unto the Lord that which is the Lord’s”
One of the best parables explaining how a Christian should live in society. Though a Christian is not of this world. They are a part of this world, on religion and politics’ the private faith should govern your personal actions. But your public actions should be governed by the concerns of man. I am not concerned with the religious faith or lack there of when it comes to a Candidate or leader. What concerns me more it what their view is of the society at large. As a Christian and a citizen my opinion is not paramount to anyone else’s. If I expect others to respect my views and thought there is the price of respecting the views and opinions of others. Being a Christian simply means you make a concerted effort to refrain from sinful things. It does not mean you have the right to force non-believers from doing sinful things.
If I judge Huckabe to be a fit Candidate it is not because of his faith. It would be because I feel he has the correct concept as to where this country should move. On that my opinion is the correct one.
Hmmm… I always thought outlnder claimed to be a non-believer… guess I must have read wrong!!
I thought the parable related to the material, and the immaterial. Worldly possessions (taxes), and the spirit.
“There isnt anyone who can tell me he isnt reall and that he is nothing but a faiy tale. I have proof! He does miricas.”
I think you meant maracas. Perhaps a bit of salsa music could make the primitive, violent religion of the Bible a bit more tolerable.
Clinton motivates thru fear for sure.
Vote for me or else!
Huckabee and Obama run on hope and sound bites.
What have either one of them DONE to justify ANY inspiration of HOPE whatsoever?
“Doug, you appear desperate to reinforce your disbelief. Fine. If I had heard the Gospel and rejected God, I would want some emotional support (kind of like a stiff drink).”
Hmmmm, I think I will have a drink. All praise Dionysus, the god of wine.
Hey Doug, I like your URL!! REAL neat!!
Yeah, maggotpunks.com is a web site I would expect all would love! Especially a ‘Christian’ preacher.
Our purpose and mission
Wichita, Kansas has been mired in a modern day Dark Ages. The fascist forces promoting their theocratic agenda to topple the separation of state and church, outlaw abortion, and stifle our civil liberties remain unchallenged by any real opposition. The so-called opposition is populated with apathetic members who would rather discuss issues rather than produce any real change. The Maggot Punks spawned from these groups to form a dedicated team that will oppose the fascist movement on all fronts.
Our belief is that if any progressive change will arise it will not be by appealing to the narrow-minded bureaucrats in office, nor will it come from the philosophical banter of freethinkers, it will only arise by direct action. The Maggot Punks are the force that will awaken the spirit of rebellion lost to those living under generations of comfort.
The purpose of the Maggot Punks is to preserve reproductive freedoms, maintain the absolute separation of state and church, oppose the proliferation of creationism, put religious terrorists in prison, catalogue the crimes and actions of fundy fanatics, work with other progressive organizations to increase their effectiveness in promote positive social change.
—————————————————————————————————-
A radical left-wing Creation-denying group is exactly what I would expect a ‘Christian’ pastor who denies Jesus is the way to salvation, to support.
Hey Doug,
Do you know an Ernest Ittner?
Chas, I take it you can’t vote for Huckabee or Obama because of their strong religious beliefs and their failure to separate Church from their State politics.
Nathan
Posted January 8, 2008 at 1:59 pm | Permalink
Doug,
So what is the difference between the Jesus freak Obama and the Jesus freak Huckabee?
Both believe in God. Both believe in Jesus. Both claim to be Christian.
================================
Easy Answers Nathan — Read carefully now…
1) Neither Obama OR Huckabee or Jesus freaks…
Obama is United Church of Christ
Huckabee is a Southern Baptist
2) There is a HUGE difference between a Southern Baptist, and a member of the United Church of Christ!! HUGE difference…
3) Nathan, not too long ago, you argued with me that Obama’s Church in Chicago is Christian, and yet, now you acknowledge that both Huckabee and Obama claim to be Christian!!
Make up your mind which argument you want to use… I hope you had a good harvest, cause you sure are using a TON of straw here!!
Hey, kids! Let’s play the Fred Thompson Drinking Game!
Every time Fredrick of Hollywood’s name is mentioned tonight you down a beer!
It’s your first step to sobriety.
2) There is a HUGE difference between a Southern Baptist, and a member of the United Church of Christ!! HUGE difference…
Chas.
Posted January 8, 2008 at 8:02 pm | Permalink
Chas so little has changed since I have been away. You are so right with this quote. Southern Baptist are unashamedly Christian and aren’t shy about proclaiming it.
See you are still chugging along putting your foot in.
Huckabee splits his party.
Christians in acts will support him as he is something of a populist.
Much like Christ was.
But the money wing of the party is gonna run FAR away from him.
I will run far away from Huckabee because of his stand on illegals and his huge tax increases while gov of Arkansas. The fact that he is an evangelical is neither for or against him. It is irrelevant. We as voters need to look at the qualifications of a candidates which he will actually be able and willing to use once he is elected. That is why the history behind the man is important.
I have gotten a good laugh from watching the libs here rally around Huck when a few weeks ago they were lambasting him. All a candidate has to do is be for big taxes, large giveaway programs and cater to the left wing and he gets backing from our lib bloggers.
Ain’t that a hoot?!?
Hey Nathan..you never answered my question (surprise)…if the earth is only 8,000 years old..where do the dinosaurs fit in?
Are you going to ignore my question as usual?
Funny..I don’t notice Huckabee getting most of his support from liberal minded voters. I know I’d never vote for anyone who wears his religion on his sleeve and denys evolution. He probably agrees with Nathan that the earth is only 8,000 years old.
How could anyone take him seriously if he’s that stupid?
ksgrm,
What part of Huckabee’s stand on illegal aliens do you disagree with?
This is from his Website.
1. Build the Fence
2. Increase Border Patrol
3. Prevent Amnesty
4. Enforce the Law on Employers
5. Establish an Economic Border
6. Empower Local Authorities
7. Ensure Document Security
8. Discourage Dual Citizenship
9. Modernize the Process of Legal Immigration
More points annotated at:
http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=26
PS the fact that he’s an evangelical isn’t irrelevant to a lot of people.
Mary I’m not Nathan but am a Christian that doesn’t feel I have to disavow my faith to believe that the world is over 6,000 years old. How is time counted today? Was it always counted in that way? What was a day to God? Is my God limited by the descriptions of scientists who don’t understand that when the earth was created whole forests could have been established with mature trees? I don’t think so.
I could go on but I think you get the picture. I ask no one to accept my faith but I do ask them to be tolerant of my right to that faith without persecution. I ask this also for the rest of the 92% professing Christian in our country.
How did this blog wind up with such a large number of atheists, agnostics, etc…? Just lucky I guess.
Well
I have promised myself to be kinder to those of faith. Many of them are coming around to things I too support like protecting the environment and promoting social and economic justice.
Thing is? Huckabee was asked in a debate if he accepted every single word in the bible as the literal word of God. He said he did.
Now, not to attack the Bible. There’s as much good in it as bad depending on interpretation. See? That’s the thing. It was written a VERY long time ago in a world most of us would barely recognize if we were dropped into it. A person FROM that time dropped in ours would likely feel that they had been rendered insane.
The point is, a lot gets lost in the translation. And wouldn’t it?
I know I’d never vote for anyone who wears his religion on his sleeve and denys evolution. He probably agrees with Nathan that the earth is only 8,000 years old.
How could anyone take him seriously if he’s that stupid? –Mary Caruso
—————–
Stupid? Mary, one of the complaints that I have heard from agnostic/atheists is that Christians think that they have a monopoly on truth. What’s that about the pot and the kettle?
And I think that I have a pretty good idea how Huckabee would stack up in an IQ test to you or me.
Having faith is not stupidity, Mary. In fact, it makes perfect sense.
JR thanks – I think – I am not a Huck fan and you can see but if he believes that the bible is literally the word of God why can’t he do that?
“My God lives and is coming back soon!”
Yeah I heard that too — some where around Dec 12, 2012 —– who’s gonna meet that train
ksgrm
I have no problem with Huckabee having his beliefs.
But to believe the Bible as LITERAL? We are choosing who will be the most powerful person on the face of the Earth here. To some, maybe even to many, a LITERAL take on the Bible is…not rational. Such a person might see themself as Messianic. And we have had 7 years of that already. Huckabee would not have compromised his faith with a more well thought out answer. But it is not my job to write it for him.
“Do you know an Ernest Ittner?”
Yeah, that’s my uncle.
Mary,
I thought I had answered that question the last time you asked it.
Why don’t we get together for dinner, breakfast, or lunch where we can have a much better discussion in person on the subject?
Trying to give you a serious discussion on the blog doesn’t work out when I am having to wade through 50 posts from Doug mocking me.
To everyone who calls the belief in creation stupid,
Here is the question which I was asking Doug earlier and he never realy answered:
What is the difference in someone who believes in creation being stupid, a nut, crazy, or (insert your name here)
and
Someone who believes in a supernatural being?
Why is it that you will not hold back on mocking and making fun of those who believe that God created the Universe and everything in 7 days, but having faith in a God is ok?
Nathan, people like David Icke believe that world leaders are actually an ancient lizard race who morph their forms into humans and control the planet. Like your 6,000 year old Earth there is no evidence whatsoever for that belief. It’s no different than believing that a race of Fraggles live inside someone’s closet. These are delusions which are a sign of mental illness. Of course you don’t recognize it because you are one of the deluded.
Doug,
There is a huge difference in difinitive proof and reasonable proof.
There is plenty of logic, reason, and evidence to help support a young earth belief as opposed to Fraggles.
I am neither deluded nor mentally ill.
I see you still can’t move past the petty insults.
Nathan —
There is ONE very factual, and scientific item to disprove a young eaath theory, Nathan… It is called the Speed of Light… Unless of course, you want to argue that as well??
Another item would be the ancient Hindu Sanskrit writings… many of which can be easily dated to more than 10,000 years old… Ever hear of those, Nathan??
Give it up Chas. As the saying goes, “there are none so blind, as those who will not see”.
Yup. I gotta second Steven D. on this, Chas.
Feel free to argue with Nathan all you want, but don’t expect him to ever change his position or even admit error.
He has willfully discounted the fossil record and reams of data that utterly refutes the possibility of a “young Earth.”
You can’t really argue with someone who simply rejects science–that’s why I usually have stopped trying . . .
CapnAmerica,
I don’t rejet “science”.
Why you people feel the need to do little more than insult me, I don’t know.
The methodology for dating is based on several assumptions which I disagree with.
Chas,
If God created the heavens and the earth then couldn’t he simply have created them as they are?
With the light already traveled across the universe?
Simply saying that the speed of light disproves creation…. does not.
“The methodology for dating is based on several assumptions which I disagree with.” -Nathan
Yeah, atomic theory is just a theory. It’s not like this “theory” powers nuclear power plants or anything.
Doug,
I am not arguing about atomic theory at all.
“I am not arguing about atomic theory at all.”
What do you think the radiometric dating methods are based upon?