President Bush reportedly was “pleased†that Congress failed Wednesday to override his veto of an expansion of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. No doubt the estimated 4 million children the legislation could have helped aren’t as happy.
The bill, which Bush called “misguided,†has broad support in both chambers and has the bipartisan backing of state governors. And as Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., has noted, most of the criticisms of the bill are phony, including Bush’s current line that SCHIP pushes people out of the private insurance market.
Nonetheless, the House failed again to override Bush’s veto, this time by 15 votes. Reps. Nancy Boyda, D-Topeka, and Dennis Moore, D-Lenexa, voted to override. Rep. Todd Tiahrt, R-Goddard, voted not to override. Rep. Jerry Moran, R-Hays, didn’t vote.
225 Comments
Remember in November…
Todd Tiahrt and george bush and Republicans are the party of suffer the poor children.
Get ‘m born then turn the back.
Greedy hypocrites.
Something far worse about whining about something one already has, is whining about something they don’t have and probably won’t get.
I’m sure there will a long thread of howls, squeals and grunts to follow this post. :D
I thought I read the problem with this program is that a large majority of the beneficiaries are not children, is that right? Something like 65% of recipients in one state, Minnesota, were adults. Sounds like a bad program masquerading as helping children.
georgie is going off into political oblivion and he’s gonna take the whole GOP with him.
Pleased. The SOB is pleased to deny health care to poor children.
Well I guess having already proving himself the worst President in history, he is NOW shooting for most despicable person on the face of the Earth.
Ya got my vote george.
I wonder how much longer some folks will continue the lie that the Schips veto ” denies health care to poor children”. Of course, it is no such thing.
Having said that, it’s not a great place for the president to have taken a stand. It’s easy to demagogue his position. Uncomfortable to support it. Not sure what’s up there.
Exactly, JR.
Tiahrt has all the money in the world for war without end and big aviation corporations, not a penny more for sick kids.
Tiahrt is Bush without the glitz. (sarcasm)
Remember in November, indeed.
Taz it is my understanding that in order for an adult to be on the program it takes a special approval from the Office of the President. Both under the old bill and the new one, this for some reason there has been a failure to report.
outlander continues to defend the indefensible.
What should we do instead?
Why, let the marketplace decide who lives and dies . . .
That’s consistent with Christ’s message that rich people are better people and poor people should just die and get out of the way.
The old bill has the same amount as before covered till 09.
Taz–
You heard wrong.
But keep listening to Rush and Bill O. They’ve been right so often in the past.
Like on Iraq for instance.
Why, let the marketplace decide who lives and dies . . .
That’s consistent with Christ’s message that rich people are better people and poor people should just die and get out of the way.
———-
Chucke…. Like I said, easy to demagogue the issue, huh Capn?
So Capn thinks he is fit to be the judge of when a social program is generous enough? At what level of income level are you and me, the taxpayers required to step in and provide free insurance for families that can afford it? We now provide up to 200% of the poverty level. What level Cap’n?
I’m not saying that 200% is where you should draw the line, but it is the typical of the arrogant LIES the left puts out to say that because the prez does not agree with them on the level of a social program that he is allowing children to die.
Nice assumption, you putz. I heard it in CNN.
Good for you George this program already exists, what is wrong with extending it as is. Just like any government it is abused and goes to people it should not. Congress has so many good causes in the name of the children it is unreal. I thought the money from tobacco a few years ago was for a social program like this. As ususal the money went down the drain for everything. I don’t care what party starts it, it just keeps growing into a monster. Same old story start,stop,start,add,spend,spend,spend.
“And as Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., has noted, most of the criticisms of the bill are phony, including Bush’s current line that SCHIP pushes people out of the private insurance market.”
So taz, I’m going to assume that your criticism is phony as well.
George..please guve me an example of how this program goes to those who don’t qualify for it. It only covers kids from the age of 18 and younger, it doesn’t cover illegals, and parents have to be below a certain income for their children to qualify.
With the price of literally everything going up, including the cost of health care, it makes sense to raise the bar on the income requirements to meet the cost of living.
This whole issue is why I think we must go to nationalized health care..that way the playing field is level and everyone is the same no matter how much money they make or how much they don’t.
The system we have in place now is meant to make the greedy ones in the industry richer and denys healthcare for the working people who can’t afford it.
Todd Tiahrt takes advantage of government substidized health care…why should his constitutes be denied the same coverage? Health care should be a basic right for American.
Why is this the job of the federal government? Are y’all actually content with some career politician in DC telling you what is right for your children? God save you if you do. Why don’t the states pick up and create the program. I’m sure your state house and senate have a far better understanding of what KS children need. Can’t believe you folks would intrust the health care of your children to DC. Shame.
The president is not trying to deny health care to anyone. Of the approx. 700,000 uninsured children, thats right not 4 million uninsured, most of them qualify but just don’t get enrolled. So, maybe it is not a politician denying them healthcare, maybe it is their own flesh and blood. By the way I did not get this from anyone on the radio or TV I got it from the Urban Institutes Research, which is posted on the website for the US Dept. of Health and Human Resources.
How people are STILL supporting an SOB President who lied more than 200 times to get this country into a phony war, is beyond me!!
Why arent people fighting for the American People, instead of this lunatic of a President??
C-lane..yeah right, the prez isn’t “denying” healthcare to anyone…just like the insurance industry never “denys” medical treatment to any one…they only “deny” paying for it.
The fact is that many WORKING Americans can’t afford health care for themselves or their children…with Universal Healthcare the problem would be solved….end of story.
It works for other industrialized countries, it can work for us, too.
Why aren’t Kansans fighting for themselves? Why are they waiting on the fed to cut a check (SHIP)? Why not create y’all’s own program?
so tax and c….
got a link fer your crap? Or, like germie, do you just expect us to take your word for something you “heard”?
and c, if you really did get it from a website, it shouldnt be too hard to produce a link.
context and all, as you on the right like to say.
(SCHIP)
It’s gonna be impossible to fight the Socialists if Hillary & Co get elected.
Might as well join em.
Spend away! I want my free stuff too!
Goodbye Freedom. Huh?
Beggars can’t be choosers you know. When we get all this free stuff from the government, you think we will have any choices on what we get?
As long as I don’t have to work anymore and everything is free, then I can give complete control to Government to choose for me.
The GOVERNMENT WILL:
Tell me where to live.
Tell me how much money I get.
Tell me what to wear.
Tell me what to eat.
Tell me what car to buy and who to share it with.
Tell me what lightbulbs to use.
Tell me when I can use lightbulbs.
Control my home thermostat remotely.
Tell me what doctor to see and when.
Tell me what medical treatment I get or not.
Tell me who to have sex with and when and when not.
Tell me when to get an abortion or not.
Tell me where to turn in my guns and who to call when I can’t defend myself.
http://www.factcheck.org/bushs_false_claims_about_childrens_health_insurance.html
Max, the scarecrow (you know, that man made of straw) is crying uncle.
Oh I’m just following the rest of the Sheep now Ks.
Baaaaaaaaaaaa.
(Sing to the theme of Champions, by Queen)
We are the Socialists!
We are the Socialists!
We are the Socialists, of the World!!!!!
Dichotic thinking.
Those who do not agree with people like Max on federal funding of much of anything are socialist sheep.
Primitive. Simply primitive.
Medical coverage for low income…. WAIT isn’t that called Medicare?
Ksag – Max cries like a baby, posts OUTRIGHT LIES, and demands others to research and yet does not do so herself. You cannot debate with her because if you make a point, she just changes the subject, or lies, or cries, whatever.
“Medical coverage for low income…. WAIT isn’t that called Medicare?”
No.
Sol – Medicare is for the elderly. Medicaid is low income.
Max, how many times do I have to tell you this — Socialism is NOT the same as Communism… Socialist people dont all make the same income, they are not told where to live, or any of the rest of your diatribe!!
I do wish you would get out a dictionary and an encyclopedia, before you waste blog space with your ranting an raving over the wrong things!! It really looks bad for ya Max!!
The proposed expansion of SCHIP, supported by 43 Governors and a majority in both Houses of Congress would cost an additional $7 billion per year.
We spend nearly THREE TIMES THAT FIGURE PER MONTH in Iraq.
We spend American taxpayer dollars to “rebuild” the infrastructure of Iraq, including building hospitals and schools for the children of Iraq, but we can’t afford THREE AND A HALF percent of that total for OUR children?
What is wrong with this picture?
Remember, a lot of Republicans are on the other side of this.
Pat Roberts, you socialist you.
Read the factcheck link folks.
Hey Max?? You like Tax Cuts, right??
Ummm Tax Cut = Government Handout….
SCHIP = Government Handout….
What difference does it make??
YOU get a Tax Cut, somebody else gets SCHIP!!
Helps out you and them!! LOL
Anybody hear the news that Hawaii is trying to BAN the use of Nutrasweet/Equal??? They say it causes nearly all of the diseases that they used to blame on tobacco!! LOL
Well, they DID add on a few extra diseases, like Alzheimers, and ALS, and MS….
Tax Cut = Government Handout
Utterly false. A tax cut is giving me back what the gov’t stole from me in the first place.
43 governors PLUS majority of BOTH Houses of Congress… What a shame, just not enough of a majority to over ride President Dumbkopf’s Veto!!
What is it with these idiots that keep on backing Bush, even though he told more than 200 lies to get us into an unjust war??
SOL — If it’s a CUT, they never took it from you to start with!! The CUT allows you to KEEP that money, instead of paying it in…
Thus, it is a handout!! At least a freebie!!
Medicaid is the United States health program for individuals and families with low incomes and resources.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid
Huh. Go figure.
Actually SOL, you could make your same argument about the SCHIP (money back that the govt took from you — still wouldnt be quite accurate, just like your definition of a CUT)
RE: “What is it with these idiots that keep on backing Bush, even though he told more than 200 lies to get us into an unjust war??”
Chas- not true, he was just “adjusting the truth” to conform with his reality. It happens all the time!
Of course the governors want this. A nice fat government handout for a program that THEY should be developing for their own state. REAL big shocker there.
Hey, now you got it right Sol — But, see –
SCHIP is for those who dont qualify for Medicaid, cause they WORK, and they make too much to get Medicaid… But not enough to protect their kids!!
SOL — If it’s a CUT, they never took it from you to start with!! The CUT allows you to KEEP that money, instead of paying it in…
Thus, it is a handout!! At least a freebie!!
That statement is completely illogical Chas. If the gov’t does not steal from me it is a hand out? Exactly what did I get handed that wasn’t mine to begin with?
Let’s see — if HIS reality, isnt real, then his adjustment of truth to fit an UNreality, is still a LIE!! LOL
… and where TF was jerry moran? Sitting this one out so he didnt have to take an official postion just in case he runs for governor?
Bet on it.
And again I ask why are the governors’ hands out to the fed for a program they should be developing for their own constituents?
The tax CUT allows you to keep some of what would otherwise have been paid in for Taxes…
Thus, it is at least a freebie… but, thats just mincing words…. it’s a handout!!
Socialism! Socialism!
Bill Clinton! Bill Clinton!
No taxes! No taxes!
There. Maybe Max will feel free not to post today since I already said everything she will say…
It is cheaper for the FEDS to do it, than for each of the 43 states… 43 is a pretty strong majority…. VERY strong…
Chas.
Posted January 24, 2008 at 11:25 am | Permalink
It is cheaper for the FEDS to do it,
Prove it
Let’s just pass SCHIPs, then we can get federal health care costs and programs up over a trillion dollars per year.
Yeah…high dollar…
Max wants to cut tax rates on the high tax brackets, and INCREASE tax rates on those lower tax brackets that he/she thinks dont pay in enough…
Hey, Max, that’s re-distributing the wealth!!
I thought you were against that?? ROFL!!
Ummm SOL — if EACH state does it on its own, that means tax dollars from the STATE budgets… multiplied 50 times… The feds can do it with just one stroke of the pen…
This should be a mainline for the political ads this fall.
Republicans have plenty of your money for the permanent occupation of Iraq.
Our own people without health care? Screw ‘em.
SOL — not every state has an equal population… so, the SCHIP rate would be different for say, Michigan, than for Kansas…
Now, if they made it an equal share, smaller states would be griping to no end that they had to help fund the bigger states…
If the Feds do it, it’s just done once… And as somebody else pointed out, it’s about the same per YEAR that we are spending in a MONTH in Iraq on a war we were lied to about —
Chas.
Posted January 24, 2008 at 11:30 am | Permalink
Ummm SOL — if EACH state does it on its own, that means tax dollars from the STATE budgets… multiplied 50 times… The feds can do it with just one stroke of the pen…
You can’t be serious chas. Do you read what you write brother? Think about it for a minute. It’ll come to you. One stroke of the pen does not finance the program. Each state knows what it needs most – read the basement and ceiling of income for families provided for. Each state can barter its own deal with the insurance companies. There are MANY reasons to make this a state level program as opposed to a federal program.
Farmgirl posts whatever lies he wants to post.
I am now a Socialist.
In lock step with the rest of ya libs now.
I surrender, though Chas, I don’t know what that means yet.
Farmgirl posts whatever lies he wants to post.
I am now a Socialist.
In lock step with the rest of ya libs now.
I surrender, though Chas, I don’t know what that means yet.
Have a nice day in Fantasy land!
Heh Chas, this was good enough for a repost!
“Posted January 24, 2008 at 11:28 am | Permalink
Max wants to cut tax rates on the high tax brackets, and INCREASE tax rates on those lower tax brackets that he/she thinks dont pay in enough…
Hey, Max, that’s re-distributing the wealth!!
I thought you were against that?? ROFL!!”
hehehehehehhehehheheh.
Thanks KFG — Every now and then I see something worth noting…
JR:
Instead of waiting for a political solution that may or may not arrive, you could take responsibility for your progeny and earn some money to pay for insurance.
Why don’t you do this?
The population has grown by 19 million since 1999. In another 10 years there will be 20 million more people in the U.S.
Each demanding their share of the freebie pie.
It keeps growing and growing and growing…
Paying Kids to Study – Does it Send the Wrong Message?
http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/01/23/paying-kids-to-study-does-it-send-the-wrong-message/
Of course not. It just helps indoctrinate them into the entitlement reality of this nation. Just like paying parents to be parents. Parents getting paid because they took their kid to school. Parents getting paid because they took their kid to the dentist. Why shouldn’t kids get paid for doing their job of going to school and studying?
Yes JR,
Every military retiree should give up their paychecks so you can be happy.
Every military member should never get paid, but get hired to the highest bidder.
Just do it for free right JR?
Which way do you spit on Veterans day JR?
Or do you just take a leak on the nearest soldier’s grave?
“The system we have in place now is meant to make the greedy ones in the industry richer and denys healthcare for the working people who can’t afford it.”
It’s for the chilllldren.
Ohhh pleeeeease! I’m so choked up, I-I can’t even speak (sniffle sniffle)
250,000,000 Americans have healthcare and health insurance. The other 49,000,000 can be debated as to whether they are illegals and criminals behind bar. Even Hillary said 15 million the other night during her speach.
It makes no sense to dismantel and destroy the free healthcare system already in place – and WORKING for the VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, because a few need assistance.
Leave it to the libs to destory a system which has worked well for decades, in order to provide mothers milk from the government.
Hillary is clearly funded for president by insurance and healthcare industry, it ain’t a gonna happen anyway.
But everyone enjoys a good cry now and then.
Particularly when it’s me doing the laughing and libs are crying.
Let’s be honest. What you really want is FREE HEALTHCARE. You don’t LIKE making those insurance payments and deductions.
Well only in fairy land will that happen.
Gotta go get another box of kleenex, to listen to your continued cry.
God Bless President Bush and his continuation of the existing plan as is. And screw Bush for not finding even more SAVING’s by reducing waste in the existing program.
“And screw Bush for not finding even more SAVING’s by reducing waste in the existing program.”
If Bush wants to find REAL savings, he should be looking at Iraq and foreign military bases, not SCHIP.
Whether the hardcore Bushies want to admit it or not, they are in a small minority on this issue.
Of course, they are also in a small minority on Iraq, as well.
I don’t know why all you libs are upset with Tiahrt. He said in his taxpayer subsidized mailing that passing the SCHIP bill was a great accomplishment of his and that he was in favor of the expansion. It’s not like he lied when he said he supported it and continued to vote against it. If he lied then the people of Sedgwick County would be upset just like they were upset with all of Bush’s lies to spend trillions to get us into Iraq.
Wait, getting to keep the money the government steals from me is handout? do away with the income tax and everyone who works could afford health care.
One more reason to make this a state level program: exactly how much pork do you think will be tied to this?
Tom, Ya got THAT f’in right. I paid in 14,000 freakin dollars and got $700 back. Yeah, I think I could pay for my family’s health care with that.
Health insurance and health care are two different things.
Anybody that has the time to gripe, on this Blog, but does not buy his own health insurance, for his familiy, is not worthy of an audience.
We have Medicaid, for the poor and disabled.
We have SCHIP, already on the books.
Part of the political reason that this debate is so hot, is that most liberals understand many of our “uninsured” will have to be FORCED to purchase their own health insurance, if we go to any type of mandatory program.
The purpose of “expanding” SCHIP is, primarily, to reduce the political backlash when the government starts forcing people to be responsible.
Again, those who do not purchase health insurance, on their own, and will not get a job that has insurance benefits, and do not qualify for Medicaid, might qualify for the current “SCHIP” program, for their kids.
If they do not, and they still do not want to be responsible, that is on THEM not us.
It is “dispicable” than anyone with the time to bitch, on this Blog, is not out working for his or her family, to provide insurance coverage.
You call ME “despicable” because I do not want to pay YOUR bills?
You are a hypocrite and a parasite.
AND Despicable.
Minimum wage, for the time most liberals spend on this Blog, could easily pay for a health insurance policy on any kid, even if the employer does not have health coverage.
A $500.00 deductable for a child between ages 11-14 would be, about, $89.00 per month.
$89.00 / $5.85 = 15.21 hours per MONTH to pay for your child’s health insurance, on your own!
And, yes, it is possible to purchase health insurance on a child, without the parent being covered.
If Bush really wanted to, he could find enough spare change in the cushions of the Iraqi Couch to pay for the expansion of SCHIP.
The Cons are just about thrilled with spending $1 trillion (and counting) to depose a two bit dictator, but don’t want to spend a a nickel on America’s children.
The entire cost per year of the expansion of the SCHIP program is less than two weeks of the cost of the War on Iraq.
Nice job, George, got any more good ideas?
I paid in 14,000 freakin dollars and got $700 back.
SOlDevVB
Just wait until Hillary and/or Obama get in office.
You will pay in much more and get even less back!
All that FREE stuff has to come outta SOMEone’s pocket.
If Bush wanted to, he could find enough spare change in the cushions of the Iraqi couch to pay for SCHIP.
The cons are just trilled to be paying $1 trillion and counting to depose a two bit dictator in Iraq, but don’t want to pay a nickel for America’s children.
The entire cost per year of the expansion could be paid for with less than what it costs us for two weeks of the War on Iraq.
Nice job, George, got any more good ideas.
Oh, and we are about tow borrow another $150 billion to “stimulate” the economy, even though George said that the economy was STRONG as recently as December.
$150 billion for a phony stimulus package, but we don’t have $7 billion per year for uninsured kids.
What a country.
“The fact is that many WORKING Americans can’t afford health care for themselves or their children…with Universal Healthcare the problem would be solved….end of story”
Mary-
I really wish you would go read the facts! The SCHIP program already allows people who make less than 200% of the poverty rate in most states to be eligible to get Health Care which means they should be getting Health Care. So please define “WORKING” Americans.
Go read what the US Dept. of Health and Human Resources has to say about it.
Those people who retire, from the military or civil service or teaching jobs, EARNED their benefits.
While they still work, they also EARNED their benefits.
The Juvenile once proposed that he should be able to go to a MILITARY BASE for “free” health care. This is a guy that never served a day in uniform.
The Juvenile wants a hand out.
Of the top 40 countries who claim to support free enterprise and representative democracy, Turkey, Mexico and America are the only ones without a universal health INSURANCE plan. Health care is wonderful it’s the damn cost!
It is only those damned liberal/socialists like Pat Roberts that are pushing this SCHIP expansion.
Commies!!!!!
sarcasm/
WS
The Iraq war is not relevent to this discussion.
Government welfare programs and government entitlement programs NEVER stop.
The Iraq war will be over when we win. By the way, most of the “Iraq War costs” you give us, are bogus.
If these combat troops, in Iraq, are removed from Iraq, will they be immeadiately discharged, from military service?
Of course not!
So, almost all of the personnel costs will continue, even if they are based at Ft. Riley, or Camp Pendleton, instead of Iraq.
“Go read what the US Dept. of Health and Human Resources has to say about it.”
She can’t read lane. All she can do is whine the current koolaid tape recording. This is NOT about facts, it’s important to tell the same lie over and over again, until they can call it truth. The program is working even now.
I’m eating it up too. Tears running down my checks laughing so hard.
Geez. I might need a doctor if I keep laughing so hard.
Let me pull out my Blue Cross/Blue Shield and TRICARE supplement, and “pick” the doctor of my choice to help me with my laughing attack.
Sure Paul, I can get health insurance at my job but it’ll cost me 25% of my paycheck. Being able to get insurance and being able to afford it is two different things.
Get out of your Rethuglican bubble. There was a time in America when health care was affordable. This was before deregulation which always results in higher prices and less services. Fraternal clubs like the Lion’s Club would pool together a few bucks and pay for health care for their members and others in the community. Now such projects are difficult because of the extreme costs.
But as long as CEOs get their $124.8 million salary like UnitedHealth Group’s William McGuire.
Is anyone surprised that manufacturing jobs in America go to Canada where the people make the same wages, are unionized but the country has universal health care? If we had universal care then our country would be more competitive. Right now those evil socialist countries with health care are so profitable their corporations are buying up American companies as we beg and beg more countries to loan us money so we can live in denial.
econ101
Posted January 24, 2008 at 12:49 pm | Permalink
The Iraq war is not relevent to this discussion.
Never heard the libs whine about the troops in Okinawa, Korea, mainland Japan, or Germany, Bosnia, or any of a myriad of other places we deploy troops.
Not until recently did the “war” cost come in to play. But that is because they don’t LIKE the war….ss
Still, it’s plain as day, the war is a separate issue from a government entitlement program.
BTW, is there an entitlement program which was ever stopped in American history?
“By the way, most of the “Iraq War costs” you give us, are bogus.”
Bullshit, Rossell.
As for the personnel, how many of them are National Guard that will go back to NORMAL lives, like working their regular jobs.
And yes, Iraq IS relevant to the discuss – it is OUR tax dollars and OUR National priorities.
Our representatives voted overwhelmingly to SUPPORT the expansion of SCHIP – it was just the greedy, “I have mine”, president that stood in the way.
Him and idiots like Tiahrt.
When did they “deregulate” health care in America?
Is healthcare more important than going back to the moon and then to Mars?
Maybe we should scratch NASA to fund SCHIP and other socialist programs.
Doug
Canada has a MUCH higher unemployement rate than the United States.
This has been true for several years now.
Econ the problem with your minimum wage formula for health care is the Government is stealing about a quarter of it, so it takes much more than 15 hours to get the required 80 dollars. and that’s just the Feds cut more if counting the states.
“Never heard the libs whine about the troops in Okinawa, Korea, mainland Japan, or Germany, Bosnia, or any of a myriad of other places we deploy troops.”
Wrong, AmWay, I suggested last week that the South Koreans, Germans and Japanese PAY for their own protection or we should close those bases.
I also called for the closing of other foreign military bases.
And I have been referencing the cost of the War on Iraq since it became obvious that “Iraqi oil” wasn’t going to pay for it and the cost was going to exceed the original estimate of $40 billion.
The Internet is forever – look it up.
Tom Paine
Nope, not really.
Those who make minimum wage WOULD pay FICA, of course, but they would get that money back, as EIC or Earned Income Credit refunds.
Those who make minimum wage will not owe Federal Income Tax.
Uh huh SEE? It’s working.
“Never heard the libs whine about the troops in Okinawa, Korea, mainland Japan, or Germany, Bosnia, or any of a myriad of other places we deploy troops.”
But is that sort of mission what bush sold us going into Iraq? Nope. The cost estimate for the mission in Iraq is around 2 trillion dollars.
So FAR. Hey Americans can decide in the fall whether they want a permanent American military presence in Iraq or health insurance for our own kids. I’ll accept their decision.
Oh you can bet paulthecon is gonna squeal like the little piggy he is on this one.
The man SELLS insurance. He doesn’t want any competition when he denies your claim or benefit.
Canada’s unemployment rate is 5.9%, America’s is 5%. How is that a “MUCH” higher rate Paul?
America has 800 bases in foreign countries. We could save hundreds of billions of dollars bringing them home. Do we seriously need military bases in countries like England, Germany, Bulgaria and Romania much less Cuba?
“Koreans, Germans and Japanese PAY for their own protection or we should close those bases.”
Didn’t know you guys were Ron Paul fans. All his ideas. NO ONE talked about this before Ron Paul.
Go Ron Paul. Now y’all know who to vote for come Feb.
Sorry Sol, liberals have been against the huge military budget well before anyone heard of Ron Paul.
So which ones advocated pulling all troops back home Doug? Seems to be the Lib mantra these days. Better question; which Lib currently running advocates withdrawal of all troops on foreign soil?
Sol,
I spoke of it long before I knew who Paul was. I have posts back to last March discussing it.
But hey Americans can decide in the fall whether they want NASA or healthcare.
Thats odd i never got EIC and still paid income when I made Min. wage, and I have several friends who only make 7,8 dollars an hour who end owing money in taxes.
Hillary states she would keep the troops in Iraq until at LEAST 2013.
So you are Not voting to “end the war” with Hillary.
Oh yeah. Hillary wants bases in Iraq too.
You may have forgotten about the 90s Sol back when Clinton was shutting down military bases to reduce the defense budget which Republicans have been increasing since Reagan. A bunch of us liberals wanted him to go further but sorry I didn’t send you a note about my thoughts all those years ago.
What’s your point Tom?
“But hey Americans can decide in the fall whether they want NASA or healthcare.”
NASA and the expansion of SCHIP are SMALL ticket items compared to the War on Iraq, foreign military bases and economic stimulus packages.
Doug: The Base Closure and Realignment Act, is a joint program by congress to take OUT the politics of republican or democrat.
Clinton had two choices:
1. Sign the BRAC closure list “as presented”
2. Not sign, and it would become law without his signature.
He could not provide input on any or which bases to close. No credit to Clinton here.
Amway, are you seriously insisting that it was the Republican idea to cut the defense budget?
“No credit to Clinton here.”
Of course, now the Republicans blame Clinton for decimating our military.
Can’t win with the Cons.
So Clark, a few billion here, a few billion there, it’s all a matter of HOW MANY BILLIONS to you and WHICH programs YOU like?
Is that the criteria?
Oh and you can always count on your typical tight wad to take the obligatory shot at NASA.
Or science.
Or education.
Or government provided health care.
All of these things have a return on investment.
The Iraq thing? Well…
Halliburton, Blackwater and Dick Cheney had a good year.
We’ll see in the fall.
Oh yeah. We’ll SEE.
Doug,
I won’t waste space if you will simply google BRAC
and find out the BRAC law.
In order to take partisan politics out of closing military bases, congress AGREED it was an all or nothing affair. They had to vote UP or DOWN the entire recommendation from the committee.
BRAC was not a one time event. The last BRAC is on-going today and is to be completed by 2011.
It’s not a party or president thing. They DO do their obligatory thing and act, but it is UP or DOWN on the entire list of closures and realignments.
Thanks J R. “tightwad” is a compliment to me.
It takes the nasty “CON” or “LIB” attachment away from me.
“So Clark, a few billion here, a few billion there, it’s all a matter of HOW MANY BILLIONS to you and WHICH programs YOU like?”
Well, as a citizen of the United States and a voter, YES, it is a matter of what programs I like.
Jeez, I thought this was supposed to be a representative republic, you know, one where the representatives ACTUALLY represent our interests.
Don’t tell me you cons are now AGAINST a representative democracy………….
Cool Clark.
So I am not a monster or evil for not wanting more of my tax dollars spent on SCHIP.
Clark says: “Don’t tell me you cons are now AGAINST a representative democracy…………”
Of course they are, Clark… cant you tell?? LOL
Remind one day to post why the need for military to stay in those countries.
The U.S. represents 0.45 percent of the World’s population, yet has almost 20 percent of the World’s Gross Domestic Product.
250 million in the United States have health care through private insurance or insurance provided by the government or the states.
Of the remainder, a large portion of those have sufficient income to buy health care insurance but choose not to (some admissions here on the blog.)
That leaves approximately 40 million of which it is estimated that 21 million are legal and illegal immigrants. By the way, there is a provision in the SCHIPs bill that legal immigrants can get covered under that bill (House version.)
The United States Spends 310 billion a year on Medicaid programs for those in low income who can’t afford health insurance or health care.
There is another 400 billion a year spent on Medicare programs.
Then there are immunizations purchased by the United States government.
The Public Health Service, Center for Disease Control, National Health Institute and that doesn’t even account for all the 50 states and territories Health care programs.
Anyone can walk into an emergency room and get stabilizing treatment. More often than not, it’s routine care.
Proof of the routine care are the dozens of privately owned hospitals along the southern border of the U.S. going bankrupt because of the “free” health care they give to illegal immigrants.
The current version of SCHIPs has provisions for 21 year olds to be provided for under the plan.
There are also 10 percent increases on cost over runs and bail out funds if the State screws up the additional 10 percent they could be provided.
The population of the United States is growing by about 20 million every decade. The majority will be in a non-working status (too young) or unemployed or under employed. If it takes 18 years for a person to become eligible to become an income supplier, then the United States will only have 5 million of that 40 million growth to add to the coffers of the U.S. Treasury.
Meanwhile, the Social Security crunch will kick in by 2020 just in time for 35 million underemployed, unemployed and the estimated 50 million without health insurance will come to peak. That’s 90 million people more to pay for and the funds come from where?
It is estimated when the baby boomers reach 2020 it will increase the burden on the Treasury by an additional 30-40 percent more than now in expenses.
Who will get the money? The elderly or those young ones? Who will decide that? Who is going to pay?
If we spit out every nickle we have extra now, who’s going to have Peter to pay Paul?
If we don’t show some discipline now on spending, everyone is going to suffer and suffer big time.
Wise up folks, there treasury isn’t a bottomless pit, we can’t just go willy-nilly and say “yea” every time we want a feel good program to get funds.
Kfgirl, you don’t speak for me and never will.
To know what I think, you have to be able to think first.
You want to repost my posts, fine.
You want to post my position on taxes, fine, then post Max’s modified flat tax plan.
Instead, farmgirl wants to tell lies about what I said.
Just go back and read what I said. You don’t need interpretation from farm-it or anyone else.
That fact of the matter is my modified flat tax plan is very progressive, with no taxes paid on income <$25,000.
So go tell more lies Farm-it.
Huh, so Amway is telling me the Republicans, after years and years of expanding the defense budget, are all of a sudden wanting to reduce it despite the fact, that under Bush, America spends more on the military than the rest of the world combined. Funny how reality defies conservative propaganda.
“So I am not a monster or evil for not wanting more of my tax dollars spent on SCHIP.”
Nope, you’re just a heartless conservative that has his national priorities wrong.
Americans first………………………..
In CON-world, if God didn’t want poor kids to die, He would have created them rich.
Like George W. Bush.
J R, please don’t use the ROI as a buzzword to justify government social programs. It’s like the
old Equal Opportunity which was replaced by the “diversity” word. It does not apply.
What you really mean, is you believe these items have a positive impact on society, or improve our American life.
Funny how reality defies conservative propaganda.
Doug
Funny how some posters are too stupid to look things up.
I am now a Socialist.
AmWAy, I want to spend YOUR money MY way!
What’s the problem with that?
“I am now a Socialist.” You and Pat Roberts, Max.
Amway, where can I go to see this Republican party that is so opposed to the huge defense budget?
You know if we had “means testing” to cut Social Security benefits for those RICH retirees, then we could avert the Social Security crisis.
Say any retiree with gross income (excluding Social Security) of $50,000 to $100,000/year, gets a 15% cut in their SS benefits paid.
Say any retiree with gross income (excl SS) of $100,001 to $200,000/year, gets a 25% cut in their SS benefits paid.
Say any retiree with a gross income (excl SS) of $200,001 or more/year, gets a 50% cut in their SS benefits paid.
Would these rich people miss it? They don’t NEED it, according to the Libs they are RICH!
Why won’t this work?
AARP won’t allow it.
Those over age 60 are the RICHEST and most powerful voting block in the country.
The rest of us under age 60, will pay their price.
You Libs want to tax the Rich more, then why don’t you go after the Rich Senior Citizens?
Hmmmm………
American Way
Posted January 24, 2008 at 1:12 pm | Permalink
Sol,
I spoke of it long before I knew who Paul was. I have posts back to last March discussing it.
Ron Paul’s been on it for 30 years. Think he’s got you beat. Ditto Doug
Guess he does Sol. Hope I see his name on my ballot.
Doug
Posted January 24, 2008 at 1:36 pm | Permalink
Huh, so Amway is telling me the Republicans, after years and years of expanding the defense budget, are all of a sudden wanting to reduce it
Doug: Please don’t put words in my mouth or post things I did not say or post.
Please go r.e.a.d. again. I never said those things.
Doug
——
“Doug
Posted January 24, 2008 at 1:04 pm | Permalink
Canada’s unemployment rate is 5.9%, America’s is 5%. How is that a “MUCH” higher rate Paul?
——
5.9 – 5 = .9
.9 / 5 = .18
Canada’s unemployment rate is 18% higher than the U.S. unemployment rate.
Math.
Try it.
Amway, the Democrats are the ones who pushed the BRAC bill through.
Sol, Ron Paul has been a nobody for those 30 years. Back when he was publishing his racist newsletter to a bunch of Klansmen and survivalists nobody was paying heed to his words. You speak like he was some leader on this issue that the liberals have been speaking about in a much louder voice. Might I say that Ron Paul is a socialist since the Socialist Party was calling for a reduction in the defense budget? Your Ron Paul knob polishing is boring. He’s a kook.
Max
I am now a Socialist.
AmWAy, I want to spend YOUR money MY way!
What’s the problem with that?
As a matter of fact I do. You can take all my money and give it away as FREE MONEY to others, but you will never spend your way to prosperity.
Why do think the WORLD has lost faith in America?
It’s not a Bushy thing. Its a dollar thing.
We are broke.
Tom
I think you have to have KIDS to qualifiy for the EIC:
—–
Tom Paine
Posted January 24, 2008 at 1:13 pm | Permalink
Thats odd i never got EIC and still paid income when I made Min. wage, and I have several friends who only make 7,8 dollars an hour who end owing money in taxes.
—–
I think, correct me if I am wrong, that YOU HAVE TO HAVE KIDS TO QUALIFY FOR SCHIP!
Nice manipulation Paul. If the unemployment was 1% in America and 2% in Canada you’d say there was a 100% higher unemployment in Canada. Your dishonesty knows no bounds.
EIC = UIC, because it is the UNearned Income Credit.
The Army consists of four corps and 18 divisions. In the active Army, there are ten divisions: two forward deployed in Europe, one in Korea, one in Hawaii, and six in the continental United States. The remaining eight are Army National Guard Divisions. The U.S. Army had 28 Divisions – 18 active and 10 National Guard — in 1991.
The Reagan administration boosted the Army from 14 to 16 divisions during the mid-1980s.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/division.htm
Thanks to Clinton, we are now overextended and our troops complete multiple tours in harms way.
Doug
Posted January 24, 2008 at 2:12 pm | Permalink
Nice manipulation Paul. If the unemployment was 1% in America and 2% in Canada you’d say there was a 100% higher unemployment in Canada. Your dishonesty knows no bounds.
Dishonesty? I didn’t think math was dishonest. The above statement is 100% accurate. You hate math now Doug? Want a federal program (lets give it 10 billion) to keep math out of society?
Let’s use some of Paul’s reasoning. When Clinton was in office in 1999 unemployment was at 4.2%. Now it’s 5.0% with Bush in office. That’s a 16% increase. Goodness, Paul must be saying Bush is bad for the economy.
Of course if you look at the figures of those out of work but not looking as well as those out of work and looking for employment the figure is between 9 and 10%, higher than the figure reported by Canada. However I won’t let facts get in the way of Paul’s delusions.
Sol, take a statistics course. There are different sorts of figures you use to produce an accurate conclusion and those you use to produce a distorted conclusion. If you weren’t clueless then you would be a kook supporter.
Max
Actually, we DO means test Social Security.
We do so by taxing the benefits of those who receive SS.
We also do so by refunding the FICA taxes to the low income, through the Earned Income Credit.
Sol, if you want to lie with statistics that only makes you a liar. I suggest you take a statistics course. College might be a detriment if you want to stay a kook supporter.
Doug, not that I accept your figures, but can not the same thing be said, of Canada, only they were WORSE than us, over that period?
Your agrument was, I believe, that Socialized Medicine somehow made the Canadian economy better than ours.
That is, demonstrably, FALSE!
You Libs want to tax the Rich more, then why don’t you go after the Rich Senior Citizens?
Hmmmm………
Max, maybe because when libs are senior citizens they still want some MORE MONEY. In fact, libs over 62, drawing SS, are quick to spend OTHER peoples money on MORE MONEY programs.
It’s easy being liberal with other peoples money.
Econ and Doug, are the standards the same for reporting unemployment statistics in Canada and the United States? If not, you’re doing the “apples to oranges” thing.
We also do so by refunding the FICA taxes to the low income, through the Earned Income Credit.
Econ, I’m not sure if your later comment is correct.
There is no relationship to the EIC amount provided to receipients to their FICA withholding. FICA is still paid, and the employees portion goes to the feds.
What UEIC receipients gets is a redistribution of wealth. But it is not a refund of FICA?
Econ101-Doug:If there were similar systems for deciding on an unemployment rate you would probably find the rates equal in both countries. There is a difference in calculating who is called unemployed, looking for work, stopped looking for work, lapsed benefits, criteria for justifying claims, jobless and hiring stats.etc., etc., so an exact comparison is impossible. I want to, and will stay out of your discussions on health matters, but only 3 of the 30 countries in the OCED, that is those who purport to support the fee market system and representative government, do not have some form of universal health INSURANCE. Turkey, Mexico and the US. Remember I’m talking INSURANCE here, not CARE.
Max, that Soc. Sec. plan of yours for sen. citz. looks pretty good… You ought to write that up, and send to your favorite congress person… Looks to me like that would work!!
They keep taxing the corporations then wonder why they leave the country…
Unemployment rate by year in US:
1993 6.91
1994 6.1
1995 5.59
1996 5.41
1997 4.94
1998 4.5
1999 4.22
2000 3.97
Clinton Avg: 5.21%
2001 4.76
2002 5.78
2003 5.99
2004 5.53
2005 5.08
2006 4.63
2007 4.64
Bush Avg: 5.20%
http://www.miseryindex.us/URbyyear.asp?StartYear=1993&EndYear=2006
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf
Doug
Posted January 24, 2008 at 2:18 pm | Permalink
Let’s use some of Paul’s reasoning. When Clinton was in office in 1999 unemployment was at 4.2%. Now it’s 5.0% with Bush in office. That’s a 16% increase.
————————————————-
The 2:50pm post was just for Doug.
Public Education doesn’t teach the 3-R’s anymore does it?
And 1 year (almost to the day) after the Dems take the Majority in Congress, we are heading into a Recession.
Women work less then men. (Maybe that’s why they earn less?)
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.nr0.htm
AMERICAN TIME USE SURVEY–2006 RESULTS
The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) of the U.S. Department of Labor
reported today that in 2006:
–Employed persons worked 7.6 hours on average on the days that they
worked. They worked more hours on weekdays than on weekend days–
8.0 versus 5.4 hours.
–On the days that they worked, employed men worked about an hour more
than employed women–8.0 versus 7.1 hours.
Course the women have to do the cooking and cleaning:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.nr0.htm
Household Activities in 2006
–On an average day, 84 percent of women and 64 percent of men spent
some time doing household activities, such as housework, cooking,
lawn care, or financial and other household management. (See
table 1.)
–On the days that they did household activities, women spent an
average of 2.7 hours on such activities while men spent 2.1 hours.
(See table 1.)
–On an average day, 20 percent of men did housework–such as cleaning
or doing laundry–compared with 52 percent of women. Thirty-seven
percent of men did food preparation or cleanup, compared with 65 per-
cent of women. (See table 1.)
Max is cool with spending trillions on Iraqis, but doesn’t want to pay anything for Americans.
Max must be a closet Iraqi.
The old, “We spend money over here, so it’s AOK to spend money over there.” Means nothing.
We spend money on NASA, so we should spend BILLIONS more on yachts for rich people.
We spend money on roads, so we should spend BILLIONS on healthcare.
We build bridges to nowhere so we should spend, blah,blah,blah.
It never ends with libs (the spending).
Employed Americans by Year (Number in thousands. Doug, that means add 3 Zeros to the end of each number.)
Year Annual
1993 120259
1994 123060
1995 124900
1996 126708
1997 129558
1998 131463
1999 133488
2000 136891
2001 136933
2002 136485
2003 137736
2004 139252
2005 141730
2006 144427
2007 146047
http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet
WS Clark,
Indeed: Max would sooner throw the taxpayer’s money on the Iraq bonfire than see it used to heal sick American children. Befitting of a Nazi like him.
Oh, and Max? How do you, free-market fascist that you are, feel about the government bailing out private enterprise? Given your rank hypocrisy and worthlessness as a human being, I’m guessing you endorse it.
Say this for ‘ol George and Todd, though: both of them support the killing of children, whether abroad in Iraq or domestically at home.
Oops, bad link.
If you want to look yourself:
http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsatabs.htm
Click on Table A-1 and format whatever report you want.
American Way
Posted January 24, 2008 at 3:18 pm | Permalink
The old, “We spend money over here, so it’s AOK to spend money over there.” Means nothing.
We spend money on NASA, so we should spend BILLIONS more on yachts for rich people.
We spend money on roads, so we should spend BILLIONS on healthcare.
We build bridges to nowhere so we should spend, blah,blah,blah.
It never ends with libs (the spending).
————————————————–
Agree 100% Amway.
Libs can’t spend enough money on their Social Space programs.
And they resort to child like fits when they don’t get to spend OUR money THEIR way.
And the Libs see no need to defend America.
National Defense and Freedom, are not even on the Agenda for the Liberal Socialist Democrats of America.
When’s the last time you heard Clinton/Obama/Edwards even speak the word “Freedom”?
America, the land of the slaves
and home of the wimps
is their motto.
You got that right Max,
I hate to see Americans who know full well that country is broke – continue to ask for even more social programs.
Max, I am totally convinced that you are nuncking futs!! You sure dont live in the same America as I do…
Same goes for you too, Amway!!
Both of you nucking futs!!!
Chas.
Posted January 24, 2008 at 2:32 pm | Permalink
Max, that Soc. Sec. plan of yours for sen. citz. looks pretty good… You ought to write that up, and send to your favorite congress person… Looks to me like that would work!!
————————————————–
Chas, I thought you were on my side!
AmWay,
And who broke the country, pal? Seems to me the Right has gotten what it wanted on every front.
You break it, you bought it. “Conservatism” has stuck America in the ditch, and all you zombies can do is keep bleating “freedom!” and trying to blame somebody else.
Grow up. Everybody knows you’re failures.
They can’t see the difference between meeting the needs of National Defense, and meeting the wants of those holding their hand out.
If you don’t take care of National Defense first, then you’ll never be able to take care of the beggers.
Max, even the nucking futs can get one right every once in a while… LOL
Max,
“National defense” = no-bid contracts, profiteering, and crony capitalism. Wingnuts hate oversight like roaches run away from the light.
And Max, guess what? Public health IS a national security issue.
But, the question does remain, why you would want to re-distribute the wealth away from those rich senior citizens, to the poorer folks in lower income brackets…
I mean, you hate Hillary for what YOU insist is her desire to re-distribute the wealth!!
Like Nazis everywhere, Max wants the state to pony up to make the wealthy wealthier by militarizing for a state of perpetual war. Trouble is, what we’re buying isn’t making us any safer from the threats we face. But making us safer isn’t really on the agenda: for fascists like Max, keeping us in line is.
“And the Libs see no need to defend America.”
And the cons say let the poor suffer and die.
The America THEY would give us is little WORTH defending.
Say Chas, can I use Nucking Futs for a Nic?
Would that be proper?
Max,
Yeah, you’re such a stickler for propriety, being a right-wing fascist zombie and all.
Max, in the words of a great American:
Stupid is as Stupid does!
LOL CF2K
EEcon:101 I just checked an essay on the differences in US and Canadian rates of unemployment showing that to equate to US figures, reduce the Canadian rate by.08-.09 of a point, not percent, but point. Other factors are, just whose economy is hot at any given time and who is in recession, all cyclial factors which can render one time stats useless over the long haul. I agree with your blanket statement that universal health insurance is not a job creator and suggest the Candaian dollar, undervalued for so many years, had a bigger impact in job growth in Canada while Europe (universal insurance) generally has a greater genuine unemployment rate than either of us. Now the energy sectors are booming, a commodity not as abundant in the US, again giving a cyclical reading. Electricity is a lot less expensive for the producer here as well.
Chas.
Posted January 24, 2008 at 3:43 pm | Permalink
But, the question does remain, why you would want to re-distribute the wealth away from those rich senior citizens, to the poorer folks in lower income brackets…
I mean, you hate Hillary for what YOU insist is her desire to re-distribute the wealth!!
————————————————-
No redistribution Chas. It’s part of a SS solution I had posted months ago, to help pay for the $40 Trillion Unfunded SS/Medicare obligations over the next 50 years. The money saved would not be given to someone else, it would simply reduce the amount that needs to be borrowed to pay the existing SS/Medicare plans, which are broke.
Most solutions proposed exclude those age 50 and over from ANY reduction in benefits, even though this is the wealthiest demographic segment in America.
Any solution to SS should be born on the shoulder of ALL Americans. No speical interest group should be exempt. All, but the poor SS recipients, will have some pain to share.
1. The Rich current SS recepients would have the means test I described above.
(Many in this group see a benefit reduction)
2. Those age 40-65 who are not retired and already drawing SS, would see say 4 to 6% of their current income paid into a private SS account. They would continue to pay the 15.3% in SS/Medicare into the program today.
(All in this group see a contribution increase, taxes remain the same, and when they retire their SS benefits will be means tested.)
3. Those under age 40, will see a mandatory 10% to go to a private SS account, plus 7.65% (half of current rate) going to SS/Medicare. Will get 1/2 the scheduled SS benefits at retirement, less a means test.
(All in this group see a contribution and benefit decrease, offset by increased private savings.)
Max,
Yeah–private accounts, invested in the stock market, are such a GREAT way to guarantee “security.” And when the market drops again, as a result of no oversight and insider practices, you want the government to bail it out, right?
Max–
Medicare is broke, true, in the same sense that our military budget is broke.
SS on the other hand is the only program in our entire government that isn’t currently in deficit. In other words, it continues to bring in more money than it pays out.
Don’t lump the two together. Medicare’s in trouble because of escalating health care costs and some fraud and overbilling.
The only thing that threatens SS is the reich-wing’s plan to piratize it.
Just think if our SS could only have been riding on this stock market for the last seven years . . . which maybe returned TWO stinking percent if that and exposes us to massive risk of loss.
“We build bridges to nowhere”
Actually, that proposal came from Republican Ted Steven (R – Idiot) that wanted $252 million to build a bridge to serve 50 people.
Typical Republican – invest in a few and faq the rest.
Who said private accounts would have to be in the stock market?
Why not an option for good ole US Savings bonds for those who trust the government more then the market?
Those who want Nannies will be happy, and those who want to take responsibility for themselves will be happy too.
Yup Capn, Medicare is far worse.
If National Healthcare passes, does that mean we add another government program or are they all wrapped into one?
If National Healthcare doesn’t pass or isn’t combined with Medicare, we need Medicare solutions fast.
Let’s let the Mars program pay for it.
Max–
Social Security is already invested in “good old US Savings bonds.” Thanks to Republicans like Bob Dole who passed a law against investing SS funds, that’s the only place they can legally sock away the trillions in dollars of surplus we’ve built up.
AmWay–
I’ve been wondering what your “staff” (hahahaha) does while you mucking about on the WEBlog continuously from 12:15 to 3:30?
And btw ladies, here’s a link you’ll enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLi_m656tQQ
Amway
To this question:
——
“American Way
Posted January 24, 2008 at 2:28 pm | Permalink
We also do so by refunding the FICA taxes to the low income, through the Earned Income Credit.
Econ, I’m not sure if your later comment is correct.
There is no relationship to the EIC amount provided to receipients to their FICA withholding. FICA is still paid, and the employees portion goes to the feds.
What UEIC receipients gets is a redistribution of wealth. But it is not a refund of FICA?
—–
YES! If you read Congressional debate, the idea behind the EIC was to refund the payroll tax, to the working poor.
Soviet National Anthem, wow Capn, I knew you were Socialist, but Communist?
The private savings accounts Capn are intended to:
1. Allow people to own more of their own future savings.
2. Motivate people to save more, trusting in themselves more and the government less.
(If I think none of that SS is ever coming back to me, and many Americans under age 40 think this, then there’s no motivation to work hard and be successful only to have your money taxed away)
3. People work 40 years and die, and SS ends. All the money they paid into the system is lost to the Government. It’s a lottery won by those who live long, and lost by those who don’t. Where does the Constitution allow the Government to force The People to gamble?
4. When Public SS goes bust in 2040, those with adequate Private SS will have a better chance at survival when Public SS is gone.
Why do you think the Government dreamed up IRAs and 401k’s?
They knew The People needed a way to save their own funds because SS was going broke. Problem is, they continue to steal from us to pay for the current Rich retirees, lying to us about getting benefits too someday.
The great lie will soon be revealed.
YES! If you read Congressional debate, the idea behind the EIC was to refund the payroll tax, to the working poor. Econ101
————————————————–
But it’s not a 1:1 relationship, just a concept?
Why not avoid passing the money to Government then getting it back again?
Instead of passing it back and forth, put a threshold level on income, and once say $15,000 in income is attained, start withholding payroll tax?
And this would stop the practice of getting back more, then what you pay in – which is welfare.
Max–
1. SS has gone 70 years and never missed a paycheck. It’s not going anywhere.
2. People can already save in addition to SS. Duh.
3. “When you die, you lose all your money.” Uh, yeah. Even a grasping CON doesn’t need money after he’s DEAD.
4. SS is not going bust unless Bushistas succeed in killing it.
5. The Old Soviet Union national anthem is really cool, you gotta admit. As national anthems go, it rocks.
Max,
I don’t agree with the Federal government’s threat assessment, and the way it wastes money, without oversight, for the purpose of “national defense.” Why shouldn’t I be allowed to spend my share of the Federal budget on my own defense, the way I see fit?
The “logic” of privatizing Social Security is identical to the logic advanced above regarding national defense. If you support the first, Max, consistency demands that you support the second.
More to the point, Max, I’m not a fascist, like you: I don’t believe in using public money, under the pretext of “national defense” and in response to imagined threats, to enrich and benefit narrowly private interests.
That’s a damn fine point there, CF.
I want the 51 percent of my income taxes that go to the military BACK!
I feel that I can protect myself better than the American gov’t can. And if I chose not to protect myself, that’s my right as an individual.
Besides, my projections show that the military budget will be unsustainable in the year 2040 . . .
I guess the thing that really bothers me about this discussion (hey, I’m being nice here) is how the Republicans are so against SCHIP, while at the same time condemning abortion. I really am of a mind that type of thinking is totally out of sink with itself.
The logic of passing SCHIP speaks for itself (and I’m leaving the few who will cheat the system, as is always the case with any government program anyway; so that’s a no brainer): Children in there formative years, who don’t get proper medical care, are more prone to live a life as poor as their parents. Anyone disagree those same kids will grow up to be more of a drain than a contributer to society? How much will that cost the public? My guess is way more than SCHIP would ever cost.
It’s not The People’s money anyway!
It’s the Governments Money!
You have NO RIGHT to own Monetary Property.
Libs remain clueless on the difference between their Social Welfare programs and National Defense.
Fascists remain clueless, or disingenuous, on the trumped-up nature of many national “threats” and the profiteering and corporate welfare that, in the name of “defense,” flows to a very few.
Max
Posted January 24, 2008 at 5:37 pm | Permalink
It’s not The People’s money anyway!
It’s the Governments Money!
You have NO RIGHT to own Monetary Property.
============================================
Max, Max, are you having a meltdown or what??
Max, I guess you just got us. Heck, we could never understand how defense works, or how it’s funded. Let’s see if I got this right: Defense is supposed to protect our borders from foreign invasion, and protect our interests abroad. So Al Qaida attacked us on our soil. We invaded Afghanistan because the Taliban were harboring them. Good, so far.
We then invaded Iraq, because Saddam was a bad guy, and had WMD . . . wait, he didn’t have WMD. So we invaded Iraq because Saddam was in cahoots with Al Qaida . . . wait (again), Saddam didn’t like Al Quida . . . So we invaded Iraq, because Saddam supported Terrorism . . . or was it oil . . . or maybe we needed all that sand to make silicone chips. Darn . . . I’m so confused.
What is The Defense Department used for again?
And those pesky social programs:
Had to use food stamps once. The wife and I were both out of jobs due to cutbacks. Bet that, or something close, is why over 98% of the people on the program are on it. There will always be abusers of any government program, so that’s a no brainer.
Welfare: On it too for awhile. See above reason. Heck. I even own a computer now , , , go figure.
SCHIP: See reason in one of the other threads.
Nope, Max, we get the difference; we just understand it better.
Opps; that would be, see my post above that last one:-)
Some would have defense contractors that supply material for the military work at no profit, or even for free.
Those evil companies that make tanks, and other armored vehicles, ammunition, guns, other weapons, and supplies, should work for nothing.
When we go to war, we should just buy our supplies from China. In fact, Walmart could have a special Department just for the Military.
Oh those evil corporations….
What’s the ROI for America for National Defense?
I have noticed that every time a Democratic President is elected, the Defense Department takes huge cuts and morale gets very low.
Being in the military during those times is like belonging to a combination of the Salvation Army and a Salvage Recycling center.
There are no spare parts, so the military has to scavenge existing equipment. Can’t order any new equipment or supplies. Training gets cut thus readiness goes down, more inspections are failed.
I feel badly for the troops if a Dem gets elected, it will be the worst time of their lives and many will leave the military service.
I think the next time some one asks for a color guard for some sort of function, the military should state “that will be xxxx dollars per hour.” Perhaps that will cut down on all the banner and flag waving.
Max, Max, now who said anything about contractors working for nada? Not all corporations are evil, but I could name a few. Enron comes to mind. But there is a difference between supplying arms to the military, and taking blood money for selling those same weapons.
Our military should be supplied with the best available weapons we have, and the best protection we can give them. We do quite well in that department, but the politics of the process also sees rail car loads of blood money changing hands. THAT is where those evil corporations lay in wait; THAT is where we need leadership to make damn sure that part of the process is stopped.
J M Walker
Posted January 24, 2008 at 7:07 pm
We do quite well in that department, but the politics of the process also sees rail car loads of blood money changing hands. THAT is where those evil corporations lay in wait; THAT is where we need leadership to make damn sure that part of the process is stopped.
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Except for the fact that both sides are deep into the pockets of Military Contractor Campaign Contributions, including the beloved Hillary Clinton.
It ain’t gonna happen, unless there is campaign finance reform.
JM, CFUK whines about all the money those evil defense contractors make from war.
Guess what?
Defense contractors from the dawn of time have made money from war.
Would they make a product at a loss?
Hell no.
Would YOU do something for nuthin?
Hell no.
Whine. Whine. Whine.
Same whine from CFUK, different day.
We don’t need Navy ships do we?
We don’t need Air Force jets do we?
We don’t need equipment for all our forces do we?
Let’s send our military over there with 12 gauge Remington 870’s and blue jeans!
So Max, what is our National Defense budget going for now and how does that impact OUR National security.
And don’t beat around the Bush – be specific – Korea? Japan? Germany Gitmo?
How do they figure into OUR National security and what would happen if those bases were closed?
Easy question, right?
I’ll be waiting for an answer.
A good answer, not the usual mumbo-jumbo.
You all better make your popcorn, and grab your beer… The Republican Debate is on in 40 minutes on MSNBC… Yippppeeee!! Yahoooo!!!
Clark, we need to cut as much Federal Spending as possible, including the steps you mentioned.
I support most of the closings you mentioned.
We can cut back significantly in Europe, though our forces there are prepositioned for more rapid deployment and some will need to be maintained.
Japan, South Korea are other matters. If you make a political decision to not defend Taiwan and South Korea, go ahead and pull our troops out. If you can live with that.
Japan, you really want Japan to develop another war machine? I’m not sure about that one.
All other spending: Freeze it first. Then look at some tough cuts to make. Mars/Moon being one of them. $1 Trillion easy for those programs. I love the idea, but we have priorities on Earth first.
Max, Max, read my post nowhere does it say anything about defense contractors working for nothing. I doubt you could understand my post anyway; you can’t think beyond the Republican Mantra: “I got mine, who the frick are you?”
Really Max, I like to think there are more capable people out there who can provide our military with the best, without the welfare they collect from both parties, and do so for a fair and honest profit. Those same weapons are designed to kill people. The whole process should be above reproach. From psat actions, I doubt very seriously it is.
Hi Max.
I live near an air base. Refueling tankers are based there.
Now, those tankers are in the air all day and night.
Why? Surely the pilots will not get rusty if they go a day or two down time. I mean training is one thing but ALL the time?
And more? Those tankers are oviously lots of times fueling OTHER planes that are flying every day all the time.
Why? Does this not seem just a tad bit wasteful and repetetive? If they cut that air time by a third, how many citizens health care could be seen to?
Part of fighting for America is making America worth fighting for. We are the ONLY western nation that does not see to the basic health needs of its citizens. Does this not make you just a little bit ashamed?
No, probably not.
Anybody hear about the Phelps’s intention to picket the Heath Ledger funeral service?? Now he is taking on Hollyweird!! Geez… how do we make him go away???
Chas,
You missed the post by the guest ghost Annette then.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/01/open-thread-124/#comment-281059
well, gollllllllleeeeeeeee i guess i did!!
JR, you ever do anything where you were a pro?
I mean not just good at it. The best.
Target shooting for example. I’m no expert, but I’ve shot with some top shooters in skeet and pistol.
They practice almost every day. Why?
To stay at the top of their game.
At my best, I shot once a week. If I missed a week, I wasn’t quite as good.
Now, Military Pilots in your example, do you want our military to be the best or just good?
That little difference between good and great, can make the difference between defeat and victory in battle.
I have no problem with our military training as often as possible in order to be the best at what they do.
JR, you ever do anything where you were a pro?
I mean not just good at it. The best.
Target shooting for example. I’m no expert, but I’ve shot with some top shooters in skeet and pistol.
They practice almost every day. Why?
To stay at the top of their game.
At my best, I shot once a week. If I missed a week, I wasn’t quite as good.
Now, Military Pilots in your example, do you want our military to be the best or just good?
That little difference between good and great, can make the difference between defeat and victory in battle.
I have no problem with our military training as often as possible in order to be the best at what they do.
The few, the proud….
Max, if we afford to pay our pilots to train daily, shouldn’t be also be able to afford $7 billion annually for SCHIP?
After all, the ecofreakinomic stimulus plan is going to cost $150 billion, that is more than four times the cost of the SCHIP expansion over FIVE years!!
If that too much to freakin’ ask of you heartless conservatives?
No.
I don’t know any SCHIP welfare people who are going to defend the USA and keep the entire country safe.
The first role of the Federal Government is to defend the country.
If the country isn’t safe, there’s no one around to debate on blogs the necessity to provide free healthcare to those who make $80,000 per year.
If that too much to freakin’ ask of you heartless conservatives?
Then why can’t you heartless bastards approve a god damned bill that most Americans support and that would benefit our children?
One day, you sons of bitches may need a helping hand – let’s hope that you don’t need to depend of the Republican Party for assistance.
“The first role of the Federal Government is to defend the country.”
Posted by Max
“We then invaded Iraq, because Saddam was a bad guy, and had WMD . . . wait, he didn’t have WMD. So we invaded Iraq because Saddam was in cahoots with Al Qaida . . . wait (again), Saddam didn’t like Al Quida . . . So we invaded Iraq, because Saddam supported Terrorism . . . or was it oil . . . or maybe we needed all that sand to make silicone chips. Darn . . . I’m so confused.”
The operative word in your post is defend. Riddle me why that pertains to invading Iraq, and I am well aware BOTH parties screwed the pooch on that one.
Read the preamble to the Constitution Max.
Yeah, “provide for the common defense” is in their.
What comes JUST after that?
And BEFORE “provide for the common defense”?
“in order form a more perfect union”
It seems the Founders wanted us mindful that a nation must be worth fighting FOR. Don’t you think?
“The first role of the Federal Government is to defend the country.”
So I assume, Max, you do not want a Bush economic stimulus plan costing $150 billion because it does not defend the country.
By the way, the only reason want a stimulus plan is so the recession will be postponed until there is a Democratic president.
So, given your criteria, Max, lets cut out all corporate welfare and subsidies, all business tax breaks and horseshit educational programs, etc.
Just defense, right Max?
I’m a Socialist now Clark.
Taking all the Government money I can get.
Will be first in line for free Health Care and free cheese too.
Spend away!
If ya can’t beat em, join em.
As usual, the Nazi keeps his woody for big, strong men, in uniforms and suits, who will protect him and keep him safe.
You’re big money’s bitch, Max. A whiny, comic Nazi.
CFUK,
You are having wet blog dreams again.
Go hump someone else’s leg.
An No Clark, I don’t support the tax rebates that Congress will hand out in 3 months trying to buy their re-election.
If Congress could stop SPENDING so damn much and balance the budget, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Go blame it on Iraq and Bush again Clark. Keep that up and see how far it gets you.
National Defense is not a priority for you Libs.
And the Libs will whine and cry about how bad the tax rebates are, but you won’t tear up your own refund checks will you?
Moanin’ Max…want a little cheese to go with that whine?
No Health Insurance – 45 million U.S. Citizens:
One Solution – move to a “Sanctuary City” and declare that you are an illegal alien when you arrive at a health care facility. Just show the ICE/INS officer your hospital bill as your own form of “documentation” and you won’t be deported. You may get “free” health care; you may even get legal assistance from the ACLU; advocacy from Amnesty International; food stamps; driver’s license; Bank of America credit card (with the FDIC [tax-payers] to back up any bad debt); Social Security benefits; Medicaid; free education; mortgage assistance placement, you may even get your hospital parking receipt validated for your uninsured automobile. One insurance company sees the influx of Native Americans from Central and South America (they are not from Spain) as an Emerging Market – that’s great, just make sure their car doesn’t collide with your car on the streets, as they may not have had time to visit with their car insurance representative.
As for you 45,000,000 uninsured U.S. citizens, well . . . sorry . . . Hillary’s and Obama’s health care plan hasn’t yet kicked in and you will probably need an attorney to schedule a doctor’s appointment for you about one year ahead of time after a hearing. Moreover, after the medical utilization review board has reviewed your case, you probably won’t qualify for your specific selection of medical coverage. I just hate it when that happens!
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