Who do you think won last night’s Democratic debate in Nevada? Hillary Clinton spoke forcefully and seemed most in charge of her message and policy points. Like Bill, she really has an impressive mastery of policy details.
No one did poorly, but she stood out, as usual.
Barack Obama scored for honesty in answering the question about a weakness — he actually admitted to being somewhat disorganized with paperwork.
Clinton and John Edwards both gave calculating, guarded answers that turned a weakness into a strength.
Edwards: “I sometimes have a very powerful emotional response to pain that I see around me.â€
Clinton: “I get impatient. I get, you know, really frustrated when people don’t seem to understand that we can do so much more to help each other.â€
She just wants change too much.
Please.
45 Comments
Ya know, I’ve been thinking a lot about Hillary’s “this is personal” moment.
I agree. I think like many of us, she was taught in school and raised in her family to think that America meant what was promised about freedom and liberty and equal protection under the law.
That is why it PISSES me off when wingnuts try to paint us on the left as anti-American or blame America first. In some ways, WE are the ones who love America the most. The promise of it anyway if not the reality. And we keep working to preserve our freedoms. We dont just hand them over everytime someone says “boo” to us. We keep working for equal justice and equal protection under the law, while many on the right are adamant that every SCOTUS decision take away more freedom, more privacy, and more equal treatment.
And then they say WE hate America?
I’d say those who approve of wiretapping, rigged elections, the sanctitiy of corporations over individuals, and decidedly UNequal treatment under the law are those same folks who think that by waving a flag they are more American?
To quote my favorite president, “give me a break”.
It’s personal to me too every time one of our liberties is constricted, every time my vote doesnt count, everytime the president breaks the law with no consequenses and every time a corporation rapes real human beings.
It makes me want to cry too.
Scripted or not, I got the message from her in that sound bite.
And apparantly, so did the majority of democrats in New Hampshire.
Mike Huckabee, Mr. Theocracy himself, is dangerous because he is an AUTHENTIC wingnut.
So I hope Hillary keeps being authentic too. The only way to combat the evil empire of wingnuttia is to speak to REAL Americans who ALSO take personally the destruction of the promises of America.
So tell me. Does what you hear from the right regarding liberty, justice and equality square up with what YOU were taught about America?
I haven’t bought what the right has to sell for a long time now kfg.
Seems they can’t keep me safe enough unless they take away my freedoms. Too? They’re overly worried about my soul.
Like they need to worry about MINE?
I’m not too happy with Brian Williams right now…I really felt like he blew off John Edwards. Lest we forget: both Nevada newspapers are reporting the Democratic race is a statisitical dead heat.
Add to this the pissing match between Obama and Clinton’s unions over caucus locations, and you have to wonder if that doesn’t help my guy in a close race.
Just look at the huckabee thread. We are SO DANGEROUSLY CLOSE to losing the elegantly designed promise of America. To losing the liberties we supposedly send our best and brightest to die for. To waving Buh-Bye to equal protection under the law, fair and transparant elections, not to mention our freedom of speech.
And it seems like the folks on the right cant throw away our freedoms fast enough.
Makes me want to cry…
BTW, we now have 50 volunteers in Sedgwick County for John Edwards.
Hillary is a hateful attack machine.
Hillary’s goons are currently trying to prevent people from voting in the casinos, In Nevada, after previously signing off on that system.
Why?
Because the Casino Union endorsed Obama, and the Union contains a heavy minority vote.
Hillary was in charge of the “Bimbo Eruptions” when Bill was President. It was Hillary’s job to attack the women who Bill had mistreated.
Hillary Cares?
Hillary cares about her own power, and nothing else!
Paulie, do you think ANYONE cares what you or max have to say about Hillary?
Mr. C, I’m no fan of Edwards, but I agree, he was really disrespected by the moderators last night.
And WTF? Why do they let williams and ol’ punkin’ head moderate democratic debates? Why not let Keith O moderate for the republican debates?
The one thing that was clear last night is that the corporate MSM hates Edwards and will do anything to marginalize him.
Not that he needs any help doing that…
And BTW, I LOVE IT that chris “man crush” matthews is credited in large part for Hillary’s win in N.H.
I cant think of any woman other than Kate O’Beirn who hasnt had a man treat her the way matthews has treated Hillary. I only hope he keeps up his schoolyard attacks.
farm girl
Apparently JILL DOCKING cares what I have to say!
Jill KNOWS that Hillary is “polarizing” and has very high negatives.
Jill knows that Hillary is an easy target.
Farm girl
Did Hillary ever stick up for any of the women that BILL mistreated?
Uh, paulie? Jill Docking is triangulating, in true DLC fashion. Unless the jillster called you, I hardly believe YOU influenced her decision.
So… you subscribe to the DLC position on things?
Who knew?
I thought Hillary did an outstanding job. She knows the issues and knows how to try to solve them.
“I thought Hillary did an outstanding job. She knows the issues and knows how to try to solve them.”
Well, THAT explains why the cons hate her so much.
Solutions? Not so much from the repukes. They like spin, rhetoric and lies if they have a choice.
Farm girl
Jill does not agree with me, or other conservatives, on many issues.
However, she is smart enough to listen. My views are mainstream, and Jill does study politics enough to know that Hillary is in big trouble.
“My views are mainstream” – according to you Paul.
Actually, it is MY views that are mainstream.
Paulie, in what alternate universe are YOUR views mainstream? When the majority of Americans want abortion to be safe and legal, I hardly think your one trick pony schtick is mainstream.
But please, continue to believe your views are mainstream, whatever that is, or that the majority of voters agree with you.
I see how well that worked for you and Bonbon, and I hope it works as well for the mittster.
“She just wants change too much.”
Uh-huh. She just wants power too much, bless her dark little statist heart.
But keep the tears flowing, Hillary. You’re not a victim, you’re a strong, independent woman; unless it serves your interest to play the victim. And your supporters are nothing if not gullible enough to lap this pablum up.
If I have to live with one of the democrats (and I may), I hope very much it’s Obama. Despite his lack of any real experience. Hillary is indeed status quo, and is a tyrant in the making. Edwards is just plastic – phony through and through.
My fervent hope is still two brokered conventions – what fun!!!
I plan to go to the Democratic caucus on Feb. 5th. It will be the first time, in a long time, where Kansas may have some input into the primaries in both parties.
My choice comes down to Obama, Clinton, and Edwards. I have pretty much ruled out Edwards. I am leaning toward Clinton, mainly because the experience that Clinton would bring to the office will be reflected in who she hires in her administration.
After all, the president only has so much influence. Whereas, the people he brings on do have great deal of influence. Bill Clinton hired good people that made government work – I anticipate Hillary will do the same. Bush (”heckofajob Brownie”) failed miserably in terms of his staff appointments.
I like Obama, but our courntry needs to be turned around quickly. We don’t have time for any “on the job training”.
I am concerned that there is the established wing-nut cottage industry of “Hate-Clinton” already in place. Her presidency would foster the partisan divide that alread exists. But Max and Paulie might die in a fit of apoplexy should Hillary be elected – so maybe the risk is worth it?
Advice to Hillary:
Cry More, Talk Less.
The more you talk, the more people get to know you, the more people dislike your ideas.
So, shut-up and cry!
BTW, thanks for the compliment Farmgirl! You seem to be pissed-off often, and if I’ve helped contribute to that in any way at all, that would satisfy me immensely!
Steven,
Why have you ruled out Edwards?
I too am curious why you rules out Edwards Steven? I have not been able to rule anyone out so far, but am leaning more and more to Hillary. Partly in my mother’s memory, since she would be shouting her joy from the rooftops if she were here to see Hillary running, but also because it bothered me that Obama’s campaign pushed the race card over the statement Hillary made about LBJ and MLK. And after the Mondale/Ferraro ticket, that any woman would subject herself to the cruelness of the media and rivals, not to mention the large number of misogynists in our country, Hillary apparently has a HUGE amount of courage.
I was kinda-sorta for Edwards, who seems to be taking on Corporate America with a fervor rarely seen. At times I found myself impressed (positively, and negatively) by all three.
I tend to be suspicious of eleventh-hour conversions, but John Edwards was talking about the “two Americas” in 2004 and, let’s face it, folks, amassing money and power at the top is what the past quarter-century was about. Everything else–dismantling the princples of America, basically–has been the means.
It becomes difficult when you realize that any politician you might support is virtually guaranteed to have taken a position you find repulsive. Did you know that Dennis Kucinich, e.g., voted for the Flag Amendment? How on Earth do you fight for so much that is and should be America, and yet capriciously undermine the First Amendment?
I don’t think Edwards is a phony. The positions he’s taking are seriously at odds with the political establishment, and with Wall Street. But I have to take into account the reality of his past judgments–those who stupidly voted for an unneccessary war bear a heavy burden. And, despite Bill C’s attempt to spin the facts, Obama had the sense to call a dumb war a dumb war, in those words.
Guess I’ll have to do some reading up, as a “debate” only gives you the answers that candidates want to give.
Bottom line: Still waffling between Obama and Edwards, but I’m liking Hillary more. But I think I could live with voting for any of the three.
I’d have a damn hard time voting for Obama, but he’s still better than any repuke. I think…
I do like Edwards talking the talk about corporate America. But I wonder if he is in office if he will walk the walk.
Hillary has her downside too, but as for me, I think we know EVERYTHING about her, thanks to the knee jerk Clinton haters. I dont think we’ll get any surprises from her.
And really, who would you like to see be Commander in Chief. Edwards? Obama? I think Hillary has proven she can make difficult decisions and then stick by them.
The other two? Not so much. And when it comes to social issues, I think Edwards is republican lite, and Obama is only for civil rights when it suits him.
No Bush\Clinton\Bush\Clinton!
The Clinton’s have given enough pardons to enough of their friends.
12 years under a Bush have been bad. No 12 years under a Clinton. It got bad under Bill toward the end. It was bad that Bill caused investigations his whole term as President. His personal life was an embarrassment being President.
The world will think we’re stupid. There will be no debate about that. We want the Royal families leading us?
Remember they don’t ever leave power! There are other Bush out there. Jeb and his son, George P. Bush. GOP will get Jeb ready for 2012, prep George P. for future Presidencies.
Bush\Clinton\Bush\Clinton\Bush on and on.
We need a radical change from those political families!
Ladies, someday a female could be President, but not Hillary. I don’t want Bill in the White House again simple as that. Her last name shouldn’t be Bush either.
KFG:
Having worked with him on broadcast issues while he was in the Senate, I KNOW Edwards is the real deal.
If you’ve ever been in Washington trying to lobby on issues, the first question you ever get asked by any sitting officeholder is, “Who’s got the money on your side?”
John Edwards was the first one who didn’t ask that question. In the six years since, I’ve only met five others (out of about 90 senators I’ve spoken with) who didn’t ask (I don’t count Roberts and Brownback because they’re NOT about to ask that question when a constituent is present).
Then, they sit there like rocks while you air your heart out.
John Edwards didn’t do that. He kept asking, “What happens when you try this?” “What do you think of this approach?”
An active listener. I was impressed.
And in the past year of working with him in the campaign (talking with him on conference calls) my first impression has only been reinforced.
There is no doubt in my mind President Edwards will walk the walk.
“Then, they sit there like rocks while you air your heart out.”
I am familiar with that in Kansas, if not Washington, on both water issues and civil rights issues.
Frankly, I dont trust Edwards on the social issues. I have nothing other than a gut feeling about it. I think he was late to the game on equal protection for gays, and that makes me not trust him.
If he wins the nomination, I’ll vote for him. If Obama wins, I may just stay home, not that it matters in Kansas.
But… I guess I’d rather have Obama than the huckster or any other of the repukes.
But I’d have to hold my nose to vote for Obama. I trust him far less than Edwards.
And really, who would you like to see be Commander in Chief. Edwards? Obama? I think Hillary has proven she can make difficult decisions and then stick by them
——————————————————————————————-
You gotta be kidding! For Iraq War. Against Iraq War. For Iraq War. Against Iraq War. For Iraq War. Against Iraq War. For Iraq War. Against Iraq War. For Iraq War. Against Iraq War.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA
My choice is Edwards,Clinton, or Obama.
You always say Hillary “won” the debates. She was no better than the others were.
KFG
Actually, if the opoinion poll is crafted the right way, I can show you a majority that would ban all abortions except for those in cases of rape, incest or the life of the mother.
However, that would be the Huckabee or the Operation Rescue “one size fits all” national solution to the abortion question — and the “all or nothing” folks in the prolife movement, won’t allow exceptions.
As stated on another thread, Congress can overturn Roe V. Wade and Doe V. Bolton, by simple majority vote, simply by telling the Court that it no longer has any jurisdiction over the abortion question.
Here again, some of the radicals in the prolife camp don’t want to do it this way. It would give us exactly the same result as the Supreme Court overturning Roe, but they don’t want to “compromise”. They want to “save all the babies”. (Which means we don’t save any.)
I used to have OR types tell me that “Lincold freed all the slaves, not just some of them.”
Well, no, not exactly. Lincoln only freed the slaves in the rebel states, not in the border states that stayed loyal, with the emancipation proclamation.
Mr. C.,
I have ruled out Edwards because even though I like him more than the rest, and his “us against the corporations” agrument makes sense to me, let’s get real in terms of the reality of what is happening in the U.S.A.
The ultimate reason why the rapid GOP dogs (like Max, GMC, and Republikahn) hate the Clintons so much has to do with the fact that they (the Clintons) have stolen, and made workable, the very few good ideas those folks have had.
I have wanted to be an Edwards supporter, but I just can’t – sorry. The real world calls…
“Steven Davis” –
I hear ya. I understand your thought process. But I disagree. And here’s why.
I think it’s both parties’ mistake to front-load the primaries this year.
The Republic Party is likely to get stuck with Huckelberry or the guy in funny underwear or Rudy 9iu11iani or Mittens or the Old Man. Hell, even Newt might get into the mix if it looks like The Huckster.
Each of those GOP wannabes, lame as they are, have certain attributes that play better or worse against the Democrats’ Big Three.
I think Hillary would be a superb President, but the Right Wing Slime Machine is greased and ready to continue their campaign of devisiveness in America and I just don’t wanna set us up for eight more years of Vince Foster and Mena. Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt.
Barak Obama inspires me. He may well be this generation’s Bobby Kennedy. Complete with a bullet in his head. The Aryian Nation wing of the Republic Party is all too willing to wipe out Democrats of Vision. (And all you have to do is tell “Nathan” Barak Obama killed his dog.)
I’m going to caucus on February 5th for John Edwards. I realize it’s a long shot, but I want his message and mission to make it to the convention if need be.
Re-think your true feelings about the issues and what you want this country to be.
There’s always a chance for a second ballot in Denver.
If you really believe John Edwards is the candidate who speaks for you, speak up for him.
I just typed about 600 words, that went away with one keystroke. Crap.
Okay: the Cliff-notes version.
1) Hillary’s done her sharing of taking DLC-style right-wing positions, but she’s sounding very different now. Is she different? And how much of my distrust is based on my well-justified distrust of her husband?
2) Mr. C and MH described why I’ve come to like Edwards. I really think the man has grown. Oh–and Steven, you reasons for rejecting him, alas, are the very reason I’m inclined to support him. Bill Clinton saved this country from full-on supply-side meltdown, but some of the most evil things started under Reagan continued and even accelerated under Clinton. Not again–I refuse! The country is unlikely to survive.
3) I like much of what I know about Obama, but I wonder about what I don’t. He seems all too willing to compromise on issues of fundamental principle, for the sake of making peace. Bill Clinton’s waffling in his first 2 years helped lose Congress. We can’t afford that.
Interesting MH and Rage. Thank you. It is hard for me to ignore the only time in my memory that government worked and private enterprise prospered was under Clinton. Which is exactly why right wing ideologues hate them so much.
Read Mark J. Penn’s book, Micro-trends and you get an idea of the type of people the Clintons will bring on board.
Steven, just breifly:
1) Yeah, there were some good people in Clinton’s administration. Then there were some others.
2) I’m wiling to give the Republican Congress the lion’s share of the blame. But not all of it.
3) What am I talking about? Offshoring. Outsourcing. The unabated and largely unregulated feeding of multinational greed, often at the expense of the employees (and not just blue-collar employees). NAFTA. For starters.
I give Clinton very high marks for running a sane, functional government, and I expect Clinton II will do the same. But there was a very dark side to this prospering of private enterprise that should be not ignored. Yeah, the strong economy was nice; I don’t discount the importance of that to basic human well-being. But “Putting People First” should have meant. . .putting people first.
The fact the Hillary has not been ignoring any of this in this campaign gives me hope.
Besides, anyone who makes Max so crazy can’t be all bad!
Thanks, Rage. Of course, you’re correct. I’ll try to come up with some tears when poor ole Max is gone…
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