Maybe the questions we’re asking about immigration are too narrow and too shortsighted. “We also ought to ask some broader questions about assimilation, about how to ensure that people, once outsiders, don’t forever remain marginalized within these shores,†wrote Ellis Cose of Newsweek. “That is a much larger question than what should happen with undocumented workers, or how best to secure the border, and it is one that affects not only newcomers but groups that have been here for generations.â€
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40 Comments
A little slow on understanding the word “ILLEGAL” in your topic headline, Kristin?
There are NO problems on integrating immigrants, just a problem with “ILLEGAL” immigrants and the Eagle’s patronizing criminals.
Wiseman, RTFA, please. It deals with the general issue of assimilating immigrants, as did Kristin’s summary.
Maybe it’s heresy to suggest that’s it the bigger issue, but that doesn’t make your knee-jerk response any more rational or relevant.
I did RTFA and I could barely stand the pacifying stance of it.
Rich people don’t have to share with the undesirables, as a poor old slave now I have share my rations and bedding with the newcomers.
Yep, I guess it IS heresy.
You need to work on your reading comprehension.
All immigrants eventually will work themselves into the fabric of country. They always follow a pattern where the initial immigrants come to America and live in isolated immigrant communities where they share their own languages and old country customs. They do business mostly in that community with other immigrants from the same. But their children who are raised here quickly learn English and are far more assimilated into the country and, upon adulthood, will often move out of the immigrant community and live in the “American suburbs”. However often the immigrant children will still maintain some customs of the old country they got from their parents- such as the Catholic religion and they will often marry within their ethnic group. But then, their children who are raised in the suburbs will usually be totally American, only speak English and discard all the customs of the old country and they will often marry outside the ethnic group. This pattern has been true for all immigrants including Italians, Poles, Russians and it will be true for the Mexicans as well.
REJOICE, I SAY REJOICE !!!
The latest news from Kansas:
For Immediate Release
January 3, 2008
Senator Peggy Palmer (R-Augusta) is introducing legislation entitled the
“Kansas Illegal Immigration Relief Act” during the 2008 Legislative Session. The legislation was drafted with the assistance of Law Professor Kris Kobach, a nationally-recognized expert in immigration law and an attorney defending the state of Arizona, the city of Hazleton, Pennsylvania, and the city of Valley Park, Missouri, in litigation concerning the authority of states and cities to enact laws discouraging illegal immigration.
The purpose of the bill is to provide the State of Kansas with an effective solution to the problems that result from the employment of illegal aliens,
the consumption of public benefits by illegal aliens, and the lack of
cooperation and coordination between local law enforcement agencies and the U.S.
Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The adoption of this bill will benefit the citizens of Kansas through the promotion of fair and equitable employment practices and through strengthening the enforcement of existing
immigration statutes.
According to the Federation for American Immigration Reform, the current estimated illegal alien population in Kansas ranges from 70,000 to 90,000 individuals. The costs for education, emergency medical care and incarceration of illegal aliens translates into an estimated $235 million additional tax burden for the citizens of Kansas. The existing gaps in Kansas law create attractions and incentives for illegal aliens to come to Kansas. The failure to address these important issues at the federal level creates
critical shortcomings and difficulties in enforcement at the county and state
government levels.
Sen. Palmer emphasizes, “Many states, and most of our neighboring states, have passed tough illegal immigration laws; the time is now for the Kansas
Legislature to honor their sworn oath of office to uphold the Constitution an the laws of Kansas. The “Kansas Illegal Immigration Relief Act” will ensure that the benefits, rights and tax dollars of legal Kansas citizens are protected.
The focus of the new legislation includes the following five initiatives:
Prohibits public and private employment of illegal aliens, mandates employer
registration and use of the E-verify System for new employees, makes employment identify fraud a crime, terminates public assistance benefits to aliens not
lawfully present in the Unites States, facilitates state and local police assisting the federal government in the enforcement of the federal immigration laws through verification of the immigration status of arrested individuals and verification of the immigration status of incarcerated individuals, and strengthens driver’s license security by making the expiration date the same as the visa expiration date in cases of aliens possessing nonimmigrant visas.
Senator Palmer states, “The uncontrolled influx of illegal aliens must be halted. National Security begins at home, and this legislation will protect Kansas against the foreign invasion that undermines our national security and drains the resources of
legal aliens and U.S. citizens. The citizens are demanding that we do our constitutional duty to protect them from this illegal invasion. The immigrants who have come into our country and state legally deserve respect, but those who break our laws must not be rewarded with taxpayer-subsidized benefits.”
May we take back our state and our country, amen!
“Bigger issue is how to integrate immigrants”
Only after the “Kansas Illegal Immigration Relief Act” is in place and working. Then we can think about your issue, otherwise we will never make a dent in it as we will be overrun. It does no good to start bailing the boat when there is still a hole letting the water free flow in.
Unless we learn from the mistakes of 1986’s failure to secure the borders and prevent the current onslaught of ILLEGAL ALIENS we can’t fix the problem. We simply can’t make the same stupid mistakes over and over.
We must remove the job and social magnets, along with securing the borders BEFORE addressing “broader questions about assimilation”.
Your instance of giving ILLEGAL ALEINS preference over IMIGRANTS who follow the laws is simply CRAZY.
Close the doors and windows before turning up the thermostat.
The illegal immigrants don’t want integrated, they just want to support their families. The solution is to make them legal, and allow them free travel back to their own countries, and across the border to work here. The supply of labor and the supply of jobs could then balance. The workers would remain citizens of their own countries. Their social security could be the tax or penalty they pay. Lord knows, we need them at least for this, as stated by Mr. Bloomburg.
Here we have millions of people who will work for reasonable wages, and a supercheap dollar. Don’t you see an opportunity here, but no, you insist on the fear option because Rush and that idiot Dobbs appeals to your own black hearts.
Another reason why Mexicans can’t make a living in their own country. We need to temper these trade deals with humanity.
Activists lifted a blockade at the U.S.-Mexico border on Wednesday, ending a 36-hour protest against the removal of Mexico’s last tariffs on U.S. and Canadian farm goods.
Mexico abolished its last protective tariffs on basic crops like corn, beans and sugar on Tuesday, under the terms of the North American Free Trade Agreement, or NAFTA. Mexican farmers have complained they won’t be able to compete with U.S. farmers who can sell cheaper products because they receive government subsidies.
Mexico’s Roman Catholic Church has warned that the changes could spark an exodus to the U.S.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/01/03/news/Mexico-US-Free-Trade.php
The title of the pic says it all.
“Immigrationflag”
These are foreign nationals under another flag on US soil.
If that is not the definition of invader I don’t know what is.
Round them up, ship them out, secure the border.
Cose’s Newsweek article seems to imply that we should just abandon security at our southern border and just not worry about aliens illegally entering our country. Sure, we should make every effort to assimilate the aliens that come to this country legally – I’m all for it. The illegal immigrants don’t want to assimilate – they don’t want to become known quantitities because that more easily leads to their identification as illegals (criminals). Aliens who are here legally tend to want to assimilate and become part of the community because they have nothing to fear. We now have so many illegal aliens among us that we are automatically suspect of anyone of Hispanic origin. The fact that we, as a nation, are not making a sufficient effort to eliminate the presence of illegals in our contry and we’re not making a sufficient effort to regulate our southern border is the root cause of “marginalizing” the immigrants that are here legally. Maybe, someday, when our government takes care of business, I will be able to see people of Hispanic origin and feel comfortable that they have done what it takes to live here. That will make it much easier for me to participate in their assimilation.
Easy solution: Stop pacifying them. Stop the answering machines giving foreign language instructions. Stop publishing literature, signs, information in multi-lingual languages. Stop providing them the “crutch” to NEVER assimilate and get with the program – like millions of OUR ancestors have done.
Stop teaching in Spanish in our schools (but do offer English classes at all levels). English is NOT a second language.
Stop food warnings and consumer items with bi-lingual instructions.
Stop pampering, and they may learn like the germans, irish, asian, african, arab, and a million others to speak English.
This would apply to legals as well as the illegals. It may even discourage illegal immigration – if we don’t have road signs and directions published going north in Spanish.
Sometimes, those trying to be “helpful” or compassionate do more harm than good.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
It seems that some of you could use a bit of assimilation as you’ve completely missed the point.
Let the illegals pursue their happiness and liberty while they live their lives in their own country door king.
Welcome to the Divided United States of America, this is a place where our politicians count on the stupidly of those who get swept up in anti-Mexican reform. If you’re interested in integration, then require everyone to speak English, pretty simple.
If you want reform, use technology to verify work status with a DNA chip and a tamperproof ID card, dump NAFTA, and then create a guest worker program where Mexican’s can keep their Mexican citizenship and work in the US, however only when a US company is willing to pay a foreign worker tax. Close a business that fails repeatedly to pay that tax and fails to verify workers.
among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” Door King.
OK King, I’ll bite: What was the point?
Did someone post something herein that would remove those things from legal immigrants?
I will agree, if your point is this is America – and we have independence to speak and act as our free will allows. But the originator of the thread was talking about how we “help” these people assimilate. Well if we are “helping” then the government is stepping in (at our expense). That takes from my rights of freedom and since you are invoking “help” from my resources, I have a right to influence how my government “helps”. Ranting, I know.
The men who wrote those words had family in the old country. Our nation was young and the melting pot already contained people of many different origins/languages. These men probably spoke those languages.
Yet, they only wrote the declaration in English. For the first two hundred years, English ruled without any question.
Why was that?
because they were declaring independence from England.
don’t know how partisan they are just a little info
$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens
each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77
“”We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
The men who wrote these words did not believe that they applied to non-Whites.
That’s true, Fiore, nor to women; but those words eventually included both non-whites and women. All I am saying is that illegal immigrants are not animals, they are men and women who have fled their countries, in many cases because of our own policies. Instead of making a mess of this situation, we should find a way to make it work to everyone’s advantage.
A second point to bg; assuming 10 million illegal aliens. That’s about $1,000 to $2,000 spent on each illegal. Now assume again each makes $10,000 per year. That’s 100 billion. Probably, most make more than that. Most of that money goes into our own economy. And even though illegals probably don’t pay much property tax, except for vehicles, they have to live somewhere, and someone pays that tax. Include the income tax and social security taxes deducted from their pay checks, and you can see they easily pay for themselves. Even those who work in the underground economy pay sales taxes. Plus, they do vital jobs. If you want to understand what’s going on now, simply listen to Woodie Guthrie’s song, “Deportee.” They built our little Bush housing boom. Now that it’s over, we have no further use for them.
2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs
such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal
aliens.
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary
school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a
word of English!
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the
American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare
; & social services by the American taxpayers.
9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are
caused by the illegal aliens.
10. The illegal aliens in th e United States have a crime rate that’s
two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular,
their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in
the US
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens
that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens
from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth,
heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border .
12. The National Policy Institute, “estimated that the total cost of
mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an
average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year
period.”
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back
to their countr ies of origin.
14. “The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex
Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States”.
The total cost is a whooping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR
to “Door King”
I see you think we need more of the low cost MODERN DAY SLAVE LABOR that the ILLEGAL ALIENS have become. These are hard working people, for the most part who are taken advantage of by those employers who choose to pay them less that they would have to pay a LEGAL IMIGRANT or a US Citizen.
Businesses who choose to willingly hire ILLEGAL ALIENS put themselves in a position they can bid work at a lower cost than the business who employs IMIGRANTS OR AMERICAN CITIZENS.
This is simple greed by the employers, and takes advantage of the plight of the ILLEGAL ALIEN. We need to support all attempts such as the SAVE act in both the US SENATE and US HOUSE OF REPRESENATIVES.
Peggy Palmers bill will do a lot to keep the State of Kansas from becomeing the collection point of the ILLIGAL ALEINS coming from states such as Oklahoma, Colorado and Arizona which have tough job verification laws now in effect.
We need some imigration, but there is a process which needs to be followed and laws which need to be inforced
A NATION WHICH CHOOSES TO NOT ENFORCE IT’S LAWS WILL SOON FIND THAT IT CANNOT ENFORCE IT’S LAWS.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Door king, that is talking about in order to be equal, the citizen’s of the United States that which we are born with life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is NOT to be separated, given away, or taken away.
These rights are granted by only two ways, thru Peace or an act of War.
b.g. if you could use a simple calculator, you would be able to see that most of your above post is crap. Lets take crime for example. It’s been going down, not up. How do you account for that? Where was your concern three or four years ago, when the housing boom was at its height? Not a word from you. All this has been planted in your minds by people who wish to make an issue of it, either to make money, like Dobbs, or to remain in power. Stop listening to right wing talk radio. They’ve simply transferred your fears from the unholy Muslim invader to the Mexican invader. And you only believe it because of the evil in your own hearts.
Mind you, I’m not saying illegal immigration is not a big problem, it is, but you’re in more danger from your diet than anything else that’s happening in this country right now. Learn who your real enemies are.
Door King, Don’t listen talk radio and dont have hate in my heart. so don’t think you know me.also the way to explain crime is that it is going down in other ethic groups and up on the impoverished Mexican group. also what the hell does the housing boom have to do with anything. Don’t try to make a case for somthing by calling someone hateful.
If you are not hateful, why are you on a crusade to hurt people who have never done a single thing to you? Why do you post “facts” without checking them. Check Snopes. You’ll see that most of your conjectures are exaggerations, at best.
Yes, illegal immigration is a big problem. And by the way, who do you think built all those houses. Check out Tulsa, where the laws were made tough regarding illegal immigrants. The building projects are in mothballs. No workers. Perhaps you’d like to do a bit of framing — no?
“Show me a 50-foot wall and I’ll show you a 51-foot ladder.”
Arizona Governor, Janet Napolitano.
To stop the human flood of illegal immigrants, we need to stop the forces that drive them here. With Mexico’s adoption of NAFTA, “Mexico’s longstanding system of sustaining its huge population of poor citizens (including small self-sufficient farms, jobs in state-owned industries, and subsidies for such essentials as tortillas) has been scuttled at the insistence of U.S. banks, corporations, government officials and ‘free-market’ ideologues. In the name of ‘moderizing’ the Mexican econonmy, such giants as Citigroup, Wal-Mart, Tyson Foods, and GE – in cahoots with the pultocrats and oligarchs of Mexico – have laid waste to that country’s grassroots economy, destroying the already-meager livelihoods of millions” (Jim Hightower, _Hightower Lowdown_, Vol 10, No. 1, Jan. 2008).
Most illegal immigrants would prefer to live in Mexico. The unintended consequences of NAFTA is one of the main stimuli driving this problem.
Door King, you have not had a run in with the illegal immigration problem yet.
When Hispanic criminals violate the comforts of your life within your own home and they do not speak hardly a word of English.
You will find out the hard way that violence itself is a language used if words are not understood.
Ah, so the other shoe drops.
I’ve been robbed at gunpoint in my lifetime by 3 criminals. 2 were black. 1 was white (the last 2 were on the same robbery).
There ya go, folks: Empircal evidence that blacks are twice as likely to commit armed felonies as whites.
Is it too late to send them back to Africa?
/sarcasm
You’re probably making that up Wiseman. I doubt anything like that has ever happened to you, however, if it ever does again, simply say “chingarte.” You’ll find it breaks the ice.
“Show me a 50-foot wall and I’ll show you a 51-foot ladder.”
******
Show me a well defined mine field and you’ll not need a ladder of any height.
Gee, Dick, you want to pay my share of the civil judgments against Arizona–if we actually did that?
For some reason, on this single issue, people’s brains enter some fantasy-land, far removed from reality.
By Michael McDermott
Augusta Gazette
Fri Jan 04, 2008, 10:18 AM CST
——————————————————————————–
Story Tools: Email This | Print This
Augusta, Kan. –
A measure to strengthen the enforcement of existing immigration statutes is being introduced for consideration during the 2008 session of the Kansas Legislature by State Senator Peggy Palmer,R-Augusta.
It’s titled the Kansas Illegal Immigration Relief Act and was drafted with the assistance of nationally-known law professor Kris Kobach.
The purpose of the bill is to provide the State of Kansas with an effective solution to the problems that result from the employment of illegal aliens, the consumption of public benefits by illegal aliens, and the lack of cooperation and coordination between local law enforcement agencies and the U.S. Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
“The adoption of this bill will benefit the citizens of Kansas through the promotion of fair and equitable employment practices,” said Sen. Palmer.
The illegal alien population of Kansas has been estimated to range from 70,000 to 90,000 individuals.
Costs associated with education, emergency medical care, and incarceration of illegal aliens translates into an estimated $25 million additional tax burden for Kansans.
“The failure to address these important issues at the federal level creates critical shortcomings and difficulties in enforcement at the county and state government levels,” said Sen.?Palmer,
“Many states, and most of our neighboring states have passed tough illegal immigration laws. The time is now for the Kansas legislators to honor their sworn oath o office to uphold the Constitution and the laws of Kansas,
“This act will ensure that the benefits, rights, and tax dollars of legal Kansas citizens are protected.” she said.
There are five focal points in Sen. Palmer’s bill:
• A prohibition against public and private employment of illegal aliens.
• Employers will be mandated to use the E-Verify System for new employees.
• Employment identity fraud will be a crime.
•?Termination of public assistance benefits to aliens not lawfully present present in the United States.
• Facilitate local and state police assisting the federal government in the enforcement of federal immigration laws through verification of the immigration status of individuals.
“The uncontrolled influx of illegal aliens must be halted. National security begins at home and this legislation will protect Kansas against the foreign invasion that undermines our national security and drains the resources of legal aliens and U.S. citizens.”
“The citizens are demanding that we do our constitutional duty to protect them from this illegal invasion.
“The immigrants who have come into our country and state legally deserve respect, but those who break our law must not be rewarded with taxpayer-subsidized benefits.” adds Sen.Palmer.
Kansas’ 2008 Legislative Session begins Monday, Jan. 14.
Please don’t insult our legal IMMIGRANTS by allowing ILLEGAL ALIENS to be included.
ILLEGALS ALIENS are not immigrants.
“For some reason, on this single issue, people’s brains enter some fantasy-land, far removed from reality.”
Got that right, Rage. That is why politicians and some media types love using it as a bright and shiny object to distract people from real problems. Or at least, more serious problems.
Door King
Posted January 4, 2008 at 1:39 pm | Permalink
You’re probably making that up Wiseman. I doubt anything like that has ever happened to you, however, if it ever does again, simply say “chingarte.” You’ll find it breaks the ice.
Door King –
I have a knife scar on the stomach, a hospital stay of over $3,000. Dollars, a police report on file, a case number on file in the courthouse and a prisoner in a jailed in the penitentiary.
And the bad thing about it is he was not the one that stab me.
you should stay out of barfights, wiseman
Building a wall will not keep the Mexicans out as long as there is a JOB here waiting on them to sneak over and take. The only way to STOP illegal immigration is to STOP what attracts them here which is JOBS. Building a wall is like spraying for roaches. Yes, they will go away for awhile but they build up immunity to the spray and come right back as long as you leave FOOD for them. Take away the FOOD and no more roaches sneaking about your home. The same way with illegal immigrants. If our government would JAIL a few employers, the rest of them would get the message and decide that getting caught with such people is not longer “just a cost of doing business”.
Employers hireing illegal aliens with authentic
looking documents Must be prosecuted. Their ignorance is no excuse!