Sumner County commissioners seemingly put public support above potential revenue today in endorsing the two proposals to build a Wellington casino. That may be good politics. But the decision also snubs two of the biggest names in gaming, Harrah’s Entertainment and MGM Mirage, whose Mulvane proposals had the best chance of turning the complex into a destination resort for the region. You have to hand it to Wellington boosters for making their case. But this decision may cause state officials, who will make the final choice, to wonder: What were they thinking?
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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73 Comments
…. a bigger better casino, more revenue, just 15 miles away …
what were they thinking — isn’t their % cut the same regardless of where it is?
Wow. Financially, that was unbelievably stupid. But it’s their decision to make.
Interesting question for the County Commission. Go with the wishes of the communities (Wellington) or the bigger picture (Mulvane)? Although Wellington might be a bit smaller it might have a greater impact on the County (employmentm development) since it is further from the Sedgwick county line.
I would have preferred to see Mulvane for the impact on Sedgwick County I also recognize that a County Commission is responsible to their own County.
Casinos and lotteries–they sound better than what they are, a tax on stupidity.
Yes Ben — being it is now up to the state we should be writing the selection committee and governor —-
People in Mulvane didn’t want it people in wellington did, maybe they didn’t want a long protracted legal fight in mulvane over the casino.
Actually, Wellington has a better exit, more available land, and it’s centrally located between Oklahoma and Wichita. If they build it, people will come. No big deal.
I would expect that the people of Sumner County can make their own decisions.
I also expect that since Wellington is the county seat and off the first exit of I-35 coming from the South, it will be more accessible from the Oklahoma folks.
I’m sure the Turnpike Authority in Topeka are pleased as well when truckers drop off some of their ‘wallet payloads’ in Wellington.
Sorry Sedgwick County GOBN’s, looks like the Sumner County GOBN’s outsmarted you. :)
Casinos and lotteries are similar. They are both voluntary taxes on people that are bad at math!
Well said kansas.
Does this mean that Bob Knight’s group lost out on the bid?
I am just happy the casino is not in Wichita. No matter how you toss it, casinos bring out shady scumbags and really old people. It will soon become a smoke staining dirty floor with a lot of flashing lights. Kansas’ are not capable of class.
Where can you find the most poor people with teeth missing? No, not Hunter Health Clinic.
The answer is casinos.
Where can you find a house full of mentally challenged teenagers?JC’s house!!
OMG, this is so funny in such a depressing way. Can’t believe Sumner County would turn down an MGM-Foxwoods to make the Wellington people happy. If the largest most luxurious Casino Merger in the World MGM-Foxwoods said it would be more profitable to build in Mulvane, then they should of listened to them, because they have the business sense to know where a casino will be the most successful.
It just makes no sense to me to put a casino so close to the border, when you can drive a few more miles and find another one.
I’ve been to the casinos three times, and I didn’t see toothless people there.
Well how about that, only in Kansas where you can find people that can reduce a world-class casino offer to bingo parlor status.At the price of gas and the reduction of wages they have manage to minimize the lower class of finances from being regular attendees.In addition, I know that many people that come to Wichita on business will not bother to go for such a lengthy trip to an out of the way place in the boonies just to get a little fun, the temptation is just not worth their time and effort.The point is what the “MARKET” will deliver not by if whether it is right or wrong or by the feelings of a small percentage of people.You are missing the boat by not utilizing your greatest chances of success; the competition will be a factor.This little venture will most likely end up going way side just like the dog track, novelty at first then struggling to stay open.
Casinos and lotteries–they sound better than what they are, a tax on stupidity.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 12, 2007 at 01:38 PM==============================
One of the few times I can recall agreeing with CapnSocialism
Well,Well,Well, when the push comes, the law says that the Lottery Commision will have the final say as to location.
After all it is a State owned and state governed expanded gaming issue.Plus the State Court system hasn’t given it’s blessing constutionally yet.Let the games brgin!!!
Watch Wellington prosper, and Sedgwick county kick themselves in the butt.
Casinos and lotteries–they sound better than what they are, a tax on stupidity.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 12, 2007 at 01:38 PM===============Maybe it’s a “tax on stupidity”, but at least it’s a voluntary tax…and I know I’ve never gotten $50 back for a $1 tax payment.
Swallow–
Nothing makes me happier than to know you gamble at casinos.
Please, go often. Enjoy yourself. Have a good time.
(And that’s money you won’t be spending on right-wing candidates . . . )
As I said, it’s a stupidity tax.
actually, I don’t go to casinos…and I don’t waste my money on right-wing candidates either.
I spend what little money I have left over after paying bills to try and give my children a better life than I had…and too little goes to the charities I choose to assist.
“This little venture will most likely end up going way side just like the dog track, novelty at first then struggling to stay open.”
Wiseman I can see why you might say that on a whim I drove down to 2 of the nearest Indian Casinos and was kind of laughingly underwhelmed — South winds pimps itself as this ultra modern great customer service etc …. yet it looks like about 8-10 double wides duct taped together, food in the snack bar (didn’t see a nice sit down restaurant) is comparable to the food at Wranglers games and thats being kind. Saw no activity that could be confused with customer service — big bingo hall tho!
the one just across the border is better in that it’s only one fourth the size and some what cleaner and maybe friendlier.
The proposals for the Mulvane exit were for a big destination casino / hotel and resort with a golf course — so it will be perhaps a little more upscale and better maintained (2 mega corps with images to maintain) the Wellington proposals were somewhat similar, less costly and from what I saw with fewer amenities …
point being a Mulvane casino I think would have a better chance of succeeding long term — has better legs to it ……. it appears that they will be places to go even if you don’t gamble — a good restaurant, showroom for live acts etc ….
so it has a better chance of getting those visiting business men 15miles down the pike to drop a few bucks, good meal
If Sedgwick county wants more revenue from a casino (particularly in Mulvane) they should be looking at what type of rezoning is needed that would generate more revenue, light commercial, housing etc …..
The drawings of all the casino proposals looked classic some what upscale — one was done in Prarie Style Architecture
..
If we live in Sedgwick County with its problem why should we discuss what’s being created in Sumner County anymore.
For anyone at the Eagle to say, they chose the wrong Casino idea, its bull. Their Editoral didn’t want it here so their p.o.v is pointless.
A bit odd and ill timed on Rhonda’a part now isnt it; to be worried about the Casino and its location.
She and her ilk were just happy to get it out of Wichita. So their mission has been accomplished.
And it looks like the people are taking them all at their word, and placing it as FAR AWAY FROM WICHITA as possible. To bad they didnt take some of these big named “business leaders” that were against it with them to Wellington if they like it down there so much.
heh…what a group of f***tards….move on to the next opportunity for this group of “leadership” to screw up and drive into the ground.
Its looking more and more like a bit of tar and feathers would make for great theater.
I think it would be smart for the state to support the location that has the best chance for success …. like it or not ICT benefits because the tourism and convention folks can say “Come to Wichita we have …… and a nearby upscale casino / spa for those who ….
We didn’t want it Mulvane. We petitioned it to not be in Mulvane. And we would have put up every obstacle that we could think of to keep it out of Mulvane. It doesn’t matter whether or not it is a good financial decision to have it in Wellington, We spoke up and got what we wanted!
http://www.worldcasinodirectory.com/oklahoma/map
A few posters have mentioned a Wellington Casino drawing from Oklahoma. The above link show a map of all the Oklahoma casinos. Suffice to say, few from OK will feel the need to drive to KS to gamble.
Probably counting on drawing crowds from Winfield.
I voted No on the casino for the sole reason, they wouldn’t give people in Sedgwick County any say on where they would want it. I didn’t want the Casino in Wichita, I wanted it out of town but still in Sedgwick County. Mulvane would actually be the ideal spot for a casino near Wichita, it would do the least social harm being outside the city, yet close enough for people with the means and responsibility to still go to a casino without having to drive for very long. Plus Mulvane is actually a small enough city to generate enough profits per population to actually have a postive impact on its economy. Wheras 1 casino in Wichita would have a negative impact because the profit genrated 2% for the City wouldn’t help that much. An extra 5 million bux a year from profits could help Mulvane a lot more than it would help Wichita.
The map is way behind as the ones in Newkirk are not on it and the new ones just south of Ark City are not on it.
They are just now adding another Casino next to the new one south of Ark City. The parking lots had to be doubled and a second casino added. Some 4000 cars per night jammed into the area.
Looking for new hotel and a 3rd casino to come in later. There is around 10,000 acres in the Chilocco Indian school land adjoining the state line.
We are preparing to sell the ole family farm now that a few investor types are sniffing around under the tent. Once the critical mass of things start happening….
“Our community lost the Casino vote fighting each other and each side is bitter about it.”
Sure sounds like you are Mrage!
But some of us are Kansans and are trying to explore the big picture. I am hoping that at whichever site they build they create a destination not a ‘pole barn’
I am hoping that at whichever site they build they create a destination not a ‘pole barn’
Posted by: Ben | December 12, 2007 at 10:55 PM
heh heh heh
Ben
The proposals for the casinos talk about prairie style architecture, the picture their proposals made showed rather upscale buildings — I do believe that if they say they will incest 400 mil and they will build a certain type of facility they have to ? I’d be more concerned that the arena will look like a pole barn with a real nice fancy window facade …..
Ben,
Don’t get upset if Sumner County wants a pole barn. It’s a rural Casino what do you expect? Look at the PDFs of those Casino plans.
A Casino doesn’t make Wellington a destination city.
Nice show of concern for Sumner County, while full of spite about the Arena.
Your looking forward to spending at the Casino making sure Sedgwick County gets a little more 1%?
Spend more going to Arena events!
This is a case of cutting your nose off to spite your face.
People will be drawn to the big names. When the tribe outside of Topeka was Harrahs they grew bigger than any of the others.
The state is going to want the most revenue and Sumner County should also want the most revenue to provide services to the people. We are not talking peanuts here. The difference is bug bucks.
Casinos and lotteries–they sound better than what they are, a tax on stupidity.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 12, 2007 at 01:38 PM__________
I must say that I am shocked to the point of having to pick myself up off the floor… There is finally something that Capn and I agree on! Casinos are a very heavy and immoral tax on the stupid. Our systems allows ppl to choose stupidy, but statistically WE are going to end up paying for the incumbent sleeze and for the wrecked lives that will accompany the Casino.
no im looking forward to a casino because it will mean extra bucks for Mulvane, Sedgwick county and by default wichita, it will bring about a 1000 jobs for the region and with care, planning and the right visionary leadership improve the general quality of life — more / better fire and emergency services, and potential for downtown Mulvane to become a little boutique strip. I can appreciate the residents of Mulvane who don’t want the sins of the casino visiting their town, but they through the city and the other different commissions can bar pawn shops, massage parlors, adult entertainment and the ilk and on the upside again with leadership and cooperation can reap the benefits of better infrastructure and generally a better quality of life. They may have to invest a couple bucks in themselves i.e. a coat of paint on the store fronts, upgrade the country cafe a little etc to draw some bucks from the casino visitors — but it’s doable — look at Luciano’s probably the best upscale italian restaurant in the area, in the quiet setting of downtown mulvane draws people from all over the area and I’ve never seen “dead” — same would apply for casino patrons —- build it they will come hey Mrage and you of all people shouldn’t be so bitter and see the opportunities for audiences for the arena — but it seems your too aggravated to think clearly enough — like you did when you were pimping for a downtown casino — make lemonade ////
one more upside — our property values will go up — those pit bosses, dealers etc will need a nearby place to live and Mulvane will be their best buy hands down
…. finally I’m not much of a gambler, if / when I go it will be either because I work there, want a good meal or see a show, I may throw 10 $ in the quarter slots knowing that i may lose — but i also may win the cost of my evening, casinos are great places for people watching, mostly clean jobs (much better than say a refinery, stock yard etc) ….
It’s good for the economy — a lot better than a 200 million $ arena with a much smaller investment
ken,
Those are hopeful thoughts, spreading the Casino wealth as your describing.
Why again are Sedgwick County workers preferable over those in other counties working at the Casino?
Wouldn’t Sumner County and Wellington support people living in their area to get jobs first?
Your one to doubt the Arena events and prefer the Casino? That’s exactly what’s wrong with this community!
Other cities make great advantage having events using new Arena’s.
Beyond some communities having a Casino, do you feel they represent Kansas City or St. Louis?
Is Oklahoma improved with their brand of Casino’s, its why people travel there?
Kansas City Sprint Center, St. Louis Scott Trade Center, OKC Ford Center are legitimate destinations for promotional events with national reputations.
Omaha is trying to get the Qwest Center more well known.
Pepsi Center in Denver gets plenty of business and recognition.
Arena was always more important than a Casino in Sedgwick County.
I’m bitter CEO’s used their stature to negatively influence more than anything.
One downtown executive particularly lied his company moving from downtown, when they couldn’t have!
I’m satisfied Sumner County wants a prairie Casino not the grand MGM and Harrah’s plans.
It’s a less than Casino, I’m increasingly likely to never visit.
Ben never went to the dog track, but with slots in a Racino, that really attracted him! Bizarre!
I visited the dog track at least 10 times and grew tired of dogs racing! That Park City location is terrible for major retail.
I’ll go to Vegas to help Sedgwick County and City subsidy by using the Airport.
I’ll go to Vegas a few times long before the Sumner County Casino opens.
I’m trying to help this County in the here and now, by supporting the Arena and taking the flights from the Airport.
I careless about 1% from future Sumner County Casino.
See http://www.wen2k.com/tell.php?Id=805 It shows why I have the right to file suit on Kansas as soon as the Judicial Decision on the Constitutionality comes in. Herbert West III, Publisher/Journalist.west.herb@yahoo.com P.S. I have articles Published a year older that the listed here explaining this “Original Concept”.
OK Wellington,start saving your quarters for the slots.Now that you’ve got your way,you will have to pay for it.But,not to worry,it will make a nice tractor shed for an implement dealer.
“Your looking forward to spending at the Casino making sure Sedgwick County gets a little more 1%?”
ANOTHER LIE FROM MRAGE. I will probably visit the place; if there is something there worth re-visiting for a non-gambler I might even return.
“Spend more going to Arena events!”
WHY? WHAT EVENTS? I will also likely visit your Arena at least once just to see it. Then, if there is somehthing worth going to at a reasonable price I will likely go.
“Why again are Sedgwick County workers preferable over those in other counties working at the Casino?”
GO LOOK AT POPULATION NUMBERS!
“I’m bitter CEO’s used their stature to negatively influence more than anything.” WAH!
“Ben never went to the dog track, but with slots in a Racino, that really attracted him! Bizarre!”
YET ANOTHER MRAGE LIE!
“I careless about 1% from future Sumner County Casino.”
STILL BITTER MRAGE?
I think Wellington needs a casino. It will help the city make improvements. Hooray for Wellington!
In honor of the upcoming Mitchell report, this baseball analogy.
Sumner County settled for a Double A team when it could have had a Major League franchise.
A) The casino may help revitalize Wellington’s downtown in the same way Old Town did Wichita’s.
B) The people of Mulvane didn’t want the casino. The people of Wellington did. Who are we to argue with them over which back yard gets it? It’s their county.
C) I’m going to bet $5 that Sumner County commissioners are sick to death of Bob Knight & crew telling them what’s best for them. “We’re from Wichita, and we know better than you” probably doesn’t play well.
Tom – was Knight involved with one of the Mulvane proposals? I hadn’t really looked at them all that close.
Looking at the Wellington locations – might the additional amenities (golf course etc) come later or be done separately?
Ben, yeah, the “Chisolm Creek” one being pushed by MGM.
Tom, having gone to junior high school and high school in Wellington, item C) of your 8:43 am post is right on target, IMO.
Thanks Tom. Those of us who might live in Wichita but consider all of South-Central Kansas to be important (’Big Picture’) have a vested interest in seeing the bast overall plan available implemented. And, just maybe, that will be one of the two Wellington plans. Especially if ’support businesses’ can grow around it.
You are right about Knight – he has become a bit of a lightning rod.
It really makes me laugh at all the experts here. First of all, most of Mulvane welcomed the two Mulvane projects. The few folks that didn’t want it are headed up by a local church group with ties to the media so that is all anyone heard about. Second, there was no public postings to Mulvane residents when the commission would take this up. And third, did you know that all three commissioners have Wellington in thier districts. And that all three have family or close friends that will benefit from a Wellington project. If folks would open thier eyes they would see that this deal was run through and rubber stamped. What a huge joke. It has long been known to residents of Sumner county that to those in power, Sumner county is only Wellington. There is not another county commission in the state that has broken its districts up in such a way that all commissioners can be elected from the county seat. The fact is, if you live outside of Wellington you have no real elected voice on the commission. I only hope the state lottery board is smart enough to straighten this out. The choice is so obvious. The MGM folks are willing to invest 100 million more and create a real destination place and it would generate the most money for tax payers. The projects selected are on the other end of the scale and will end up nothing more then a local business in Wellington much the same as all of the Casions in OK. Time will tell if we have any true business folks on the state lottery board. And just in case you are asking, Yes I am a Mulvane resident (40 plus years), No I wouldn’t make a dime off of a Mulvane project and lastly, I might go one time after it opened, but not more as I do not gamble.
Mulvane – I think Sedgwick County also has districts that give the potential for everyong to be from Wichita. I seem to recall that all five districts snake down into the city (but am not sure)
I wish that the ‘pro-casino’ people in Mulvane had been heard; I have mostly speculated from a distance. As you will note I tended to like the Mulvane location for reasons of the proximity to population and turnpike. Also a tie-in to Wildwood seemed intriguing.
Question: is it still an open issue at the state?
They had the right to recommend Wellinton. That extra time and expense in travel will be extremely costly. I wouldn’t project income over 75% of the estimates at the Wellinton location. It will grow old and enmpty long before it’s time. 55 miles from 21st st. andover exit to Wellinton. For this part of the state that is a long ride. Casino would be better off in Pratt or Great Bend as those folks think anything under a 100 miles each way is an afternoon trip!
I had a Great Aunt who lived in Mulvane. She mentioned that Wellington always thought of Mulvane as a suburb of Wichita.
I don’t know if the attitude still holds true, but it appears the attitude could still prevail.
More revenue? You must be only thinking short term. The people in Wellington did the right thing by wanting this casino and the county commissioners did a fantastic job of making a decision and not allowing the state to have the final say. The commissioners had the foresight to see that the casino is not just a destination resort but a catalyst for economic growth for Sumner County. These casinos no matter where placed would have sparked a population growth as well as an opportunity for business to come in and surround them. Had the casino gone north, the business that would come with it would have built across the street on the Sedgwick side allowing those tax dollars to be sent away from Sumner Co. Looking at the casinos side by side (I was at all the proposals), each group has done their research, and no one is going to spend a third to half a billion dollars on a flop, the tax revenue will be the same. The 2% to Sumner will always be the same 2% and the 1% to Sedgwick, the difference will be the economic push, population flux, and tax dollars generated from new business and home ownership…that is the difference maker. To those that can’t see that I am sorry, but I commend the commissioners on their foresight and ability to see past the initial build and look towards the future of Wellington and Sumner Co.
Mulvane Resident
We need to encourage the pro mulvane folks to voice their opinion to the lottery board as well as the 2 developers — send copies to the mayor, city council aand manager.
I will get names and addresses and post them here …..
Ben — you with us on this? Can you or your firm afford to be involved in any way and not risk anything? Not money just the right people writing the right people ?
Ben — Mr
mulvane is the next best site for the state, after west wichita sedgwick county and wichita. Get enough Wichitans to email write could only help. My wild guess is 2-3 k voted against a downtown casino — but would have liked a better location — mulvane is next best
Interesting idea ken. Don’t really have any idea who at the state; nor anyone in local government in Sumner County.
The idea is to write the 2 casino developers to encourage them to make a presentation to the lottery board, also write the lottery board and the city council of Mulvane for it’s support, don’t know for sure but I have some what of a feeling that the majority would like it — could ypur firm approach it from a “we want to be the architects ( you are architects ?
Andy Shimer,
Don’t let Ben and ken or Mulvane residents sway your opinion, their wanting a South Central Casino.
Those No voters in Sedgwick County really blew it and ruined things for the Mulvane Casino’s.
Of course we in Wichita want the MGM and Harrah’s plans to win in Topeka! Bigger for our tastes and closer too.
Wellington had a stacked deck group of County Commissioners and won.
Be proud and loud voicing your opinion its a Wellington Casino.
You NO voters won’t win a South Central Casino and I’m glad for it!
Who knows Harrah’s and MGM might create plans for Wellington spots if they want. The Mulvane exit is dead, that’s not where Sumner County wants a Casino.
“Those No voters in Sedgwick County really blew it and ruined things for the Mulvane Casino’s.”
SAY WHAT?! If your downtown location had won there could never even be consideration for ANY Sumner site.
“You NO voters won’t win a South Central Casino and I’m glad for it!”
A BIT BITTER MRAGE?
“Who knows Harrah’s and MGM might create plans for Wellington spots if they want.”
EARTH TO MRAGE: IT IS TOO LATE FOR ANOTHER PROPOSAL.
Ben,
Some people in Mulvane voted No in Sedgwick County and suddenly a Casino plan is outside their door step?
In conversation today, your wanting a South Central Casino, not a pole barn!
Yeah, I’m bitter because now that Casino plans are more detailed people here want it!
Sumner County voted years before seeing any kind of Casino plan!
A little trust in the civic process, when plans were offered, community chose the site!
Many here don’t trust the County or City governments! You couldn’t trust our govs with a vague casino idea. You didn’t let this community help the Casino groups decide a best location.
Downtown was one of the ideas!
A better location based on legitimate Casino plans might have been found.
You didn’t want it here.
Accept Wellington’s Casino and their community design of it. If they want a pole barn, limited Casino so what!
For them it can be a success locally.
“Our community lost the Casino vote fighting each other and each side is bitter about it.”
YOU SURE ARE MRAGE!
Mrage – you lost because you and others focused solely on an inferior location – DOWNTOWN. You managed to turn 70% into 43%. CONGRATULATIONS!
“You didn’t let this community help the Casino groups decide a best location.”
I NEVER STOPPED THEM! THEY HAD NUMEROUS OPPORTUNITIES!
“You couldn’t trust our govs with a vague casino idea.”
VERY TRUE! JUSTIFIABLY SO!
“A little trust in the civic process, when plans were offered, community chose the site!”
HOW? THAT WAS NEVER PROPOSED!
Ben,
Casino groups had to discuss the ideas with local property owners.
Who did the introductions but Wellington City government officials.
Casino cold knocked on doors, guess what land owner, we want on your property?
It was Casino location conversation so the plans could be placed on those sites.
Here, you didn’t give City time to discuss a downtown Casino plan allowing the purchase of their property.
You didn’t allow definitive Casino sites ideas anywhere in the County. You rejected the vague ideas.
You said No in your self defeating ways before Casino conversation could really start.
You right to be concerned how our governments are performing, your wrong on saying No.
Your acting different than most Kansans dealing with their local governments.
Ben
Is there any way I can call you or email you?
“Here, you didn’t give City time to discuss a downtown Casino plan allowing the purchase of their property.”
FALSE! They had plenty of time; they simply made the decision to not have such discussions.
” You didn’t allow definitive Casino sites ideas anywhere in the County.”
FALSE! I allowed it; I read what little they did. However, those in power made the decision to not have definitive sites.
“You rejected the vague ideas.”
TRUE! As did a clear majority of my fellow Sedgwick County citizens.
“You said No in your self defeating ways before Casino conversation could really start.”
ANOTHER MRAGE LIE! They had the opportunity to have the conversations. They refused to do so. AND THAT IS WHY YOU LOST BIG!
ken – give me an email address and I’ll toss you a note.
Ben
Will this afternoon — will try to route a message through Dave or one of the editors this afternoon – unless you know of another way — without divulging it here
No point in continuing any discussion here — have researched a little info. Knight was on TV last night in essence saying it ain’t over til it’s over
Maybe you can drop a note to Dave (blog editor) to allow him (if he will) to forward my email to you
will send it to him now
ken – go through Randy Scholfield – tell him ‘hi’ for me. Just say it’s for “Ben the scientist” even though this is not a science topic.
Marksrage@gmail.com
Wow..you guys scared to post an email address! It use to be shown on the thing.
will do