The United Nations Committee Against Torture recently singled out Tasers as weapons that “constituted a form of torture.†The committee cited studies that found that Tasers have the potential to cause death.
The United Nations’ stand supports Hope Street Youth Development’s protests against the use of Tasers in Wichita schools and its call for more information to be made available to students and parents.
Posted by Kristin Mehler
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- XXX on Let immigrants run
- BlueJay on Let immigrants run
- Monkeyhawk on Let immigrants run
- Chrisfrommactown on Let immigrants run
- BlueJay on Let immigrants run
- Monkeyhawk on Too many exemptions
- JWink on Too many exemptions
- LonnythePlumber on Jail consultants straining patience
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/22
- Regular on Open thread 11/22
109 Comments
What is a U.N.?Btw, is anybody collecting their rent money?
Dunno. Last I checked, the U.S. was still way behind in its dues.
Maybe we can call it even.
So….do we really want the cops to go back to using their guns?
Tasers are an effective tool for reining in unruly suspects who refuse to follow orders. Before tasers, cops used clubs and mace more often. Do the cops sometimes overuse the things? Yes they do and they should be better trained to know when to use them and when not to use them. There is no reason to use a Taser on somebody already in handcuffs just because they are having a fit. But we should not even consider taking this effective tool from those who need it.
In any one week, 7 citizens die from having a taser used on them. That is far more than any gunshot wound from a police officer.
This has got to stop. Police should not use the taser as a first resort to obtain compliance or to stop a runner. It should only be deployed under a strict set of protocol that involves the safety of the suspect, the officer, or others. Also a post-use protocol should include immediate medical intervention.
Pain compliance. These thugs use tazers on a whim. They enjoy jolting folks with 50,000 volts of holier-than-thou love. From pregnant women to minor traffic stops, people are getting the treatment from these gang members daily. It takes an unbalanced person to become a cop, someone who likes bullying and “being in charge”. The good cops (the near to retirement agers) are seeing this shift in policy and are getting out. It’s the new, young “bad asses” that are being trained to treat us like Iraqi citizens.
Speaking of which, how many ex-GI’s coming home from Iraq are becoming cops? These are the same soldiers that have been burned out with three or four tours each and have done nothing but get used to thugging people around? I’m not mad at cops, I’m mad at them being federalized, becoming more of a para-military force than someone in a patrol car giving baseball cards to kids.
Where does the UN stand on people getting 200 or lashes for being raped? Or being arrested, charged, and convicted for allowing kids to name a Teddy Bear Mohammed? Where does the UN stand on people being decapitated by government or terrorists? Where does the UN stand on women being stoned for being with a man?
7 people a week die a week from being tasered? Where is that information coming from? Several dozen of these incidents have gone to civil bench and jury trials and all have found in the favor of the taser company. The autopsies have found high concentrations of drugs and or some other medical problem resulted in the death of the person.
Hmmm… Putting myself in the shoes of a cop and given the choice of physically fighting someone (and being injured too) and having charges of abuse for punching or striking people with hands or night sticks or using a taser? Which would you use?
I believe most of the cops carrying the tasers have been tasered also. I don’t believe any of them have died, have they?
What makes more sense? One cop with one taser? Or several cops wrestling/fighting with someone who doesn’t want to go to jail? Or maybe doing what can be considered a “Beat Down” of someone who doesn’t want to cooperate?
Can you always tell if a woman if pregnant? How about it she is fat or just recently pregnant? Wearing a heavy coat?
Could it also be cops are leaving the job because they are retiring or tired of the crap from unappreciative citizens?
I’m sure cops would rather be driving around from donut shop to donut shop, just stopping to hand out a few baseball cards than running from call to call because people can’t get along or are stealing from one another or shooting each other or driving drunk or running into each other with cars.
I’ve been stopped by the cops, I’ve had regular contact with different officers and have had no problems at all, but I am sure there are a couple who are grouchy and whiny and complainers, just like regular people, even like some who post on this list
No you can’t always tell if a woman is pregnant. Which is precisely why you shouldn’t just arbitrarily tazer someone. The cops do tazer themselves, but they do it once and call it good. these thugs have been tazing people for five minutes straight. When a cop puts on his badge and weapon he no longer qualifies as “regular people”. When not in uniform, sure, he’s “one of us” but when in uniform he is a protector that has no right to bring his personal issues into work with him. He’s paid, by me and you, to protect and serve, not torture the citizenry. Oh sheeooot, I’m whining.
As soon as cops stop dressing like Darth Vader and quit doing this kind of crap:
http://cayankee.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/28/elian.jpg
Then I’ll start respecting the position they hold.
In any one week, 7 citizens die from having a taser used on them. That is far more than any gunshot wound from a police officer.Posted by: political_mom | December 05, 2007 at 06:22 AM
I seriously doubt your numbers, P-mom.
We’re forgetting what the cops are dealing with out there. This isn’t 1955. When a cop walks up to a car in a traffic stop, he never knows what kind of nut he’s going to be dealing with.I think it’s great that cops have a non-lethal response (taser). Being tased is a much better solution than being shot.
If you watch the cop shows on TV, the people who get tased ask for it. They don’t do what they’re told to do.
I got tased once and it wasn’t by one of these sissy 50,000 volt units. I got hit with one that ran 950,000 volts.
It got my attention.It was damned unpleasant.It was something I don’t want to experience again.It didn’t kill me.I was ok just a few minutes after the shock.
Seems to me that there were “crazies” in 1955 as well as there are now. I think maybe there were “crazies” throughout history. When deploying a tazer, they (the suspect or offender) had better be an immediate threat, not just for non-compliance. If someone refuses to sign a ticket, that is not a valid reason to taze.
If someone refuses to sign a ticket, that is not a valid reason to taze.
Posted by: Pleefer | December 05, 2007 at 07:56 AM
Maybe. There’s a reason it’s called Law ENFORCEMENT. If you don’t do what you’re supposed to do, there are repercussions.
But refusal to get on the ground when you’re told to or resisting being handcuffed is a valid reason to tase.
And as I said, it beats being shot (or being beat to a pulp).
Maybe it shouldn’t be the first line of offense. What did they do before tasers, and don’t say shooting the suspect to get compliance.
We got too many TJ Hookers out there.
When the Nazis came for the communists,I remained silent;I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,I remained silent;I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,I did not speak out;I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,I remained silent;I wasn’t a Jew.
When they came for me,there was no one left to speak out.
-Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)
Here in Wichita a hearing impaired man outnumbered by officers with guns drawn who have the element of surprise on their sides since they broke into his place while he was in the bathtub can be tased because he didn’t show them his hands. Never mind that he couldn’t hear, his hands were obviously holding the towel at his waist, and he was surprised by officers with drawn guns when exiting the bathroom of his own home!
http://www.kwch.com/global/story.asp?s=7446220
Maybe it shouldn’t be the first line of offense. What did they do before tasers….Posted by: The Phantom | December 05, 2007 at 08:17 AM
They beat the crap out of you.I’d still rather be tased. It’s pretty humane when you consider the alternatives.
I know, that man should not have been deaf. Holy cow, what if it was a pregnant, deaf woman?
Here’s a concept – stop resisting arrest.
Resisting arrest?
Arriving in America from a foreign land, waiting in an airline terminal for 12 hours, unable to speak English and thus unable to communicate does not warrant death by electrocution.
Being stopped for speeding does not warrant arrest and does not warrant be tazed.
Cops are thug gangsters.
Don’t tase me bro!
Never mind that he couldn’t hear, his hands were obviously holding the towel at his waist, and he was surprised by officers with drawn guns when exiting the bathroom of his own home!Posted by: lindainks55 | December 05, 2007 at 08:27 AM
And the police were supposed to know this guy was deaf how?
“Officers were worried about their own safety because at the time it appeared Williams was refusing to obey their commands to show his hands. That’s when they shot him with a Taser.”
“This one occurred on the worst of calls, that being a shooting. The first few minutes getting control of the scene are very, very important.”
“Once the facts were all sorted out, officers repeatedly apologized to Williams. Police wish it never happened, but with the information they had at the time, their choices were limited.”
“Williams was not hurt in the incident.”
Notice the part about how the guy wasn’t hurt.
The situation could have been different. What if there had been a shooter? Of course it would be better to have a couple of cops killed rather than inconveniencing someone.
Cops are thug gangsters.
Posted by: Pleefer | December 05, 2007 at 08:36 AM
Now there’s an attitude for you. After a statement like that, I’ll bet there’s a little dope around your house. My experience is, people who fear the cops are usually drug users.
I have nothing against cops. Seeing them drive down the streets in my neighborhood makes me feel safer.Too bad they make you feel parinoid.
“paranoid”
Tasers: the vanguard of American fascism. As exemplified by the pro-taser American fascists stinking up this thread.
I had a cop, dressed in black, shake me down on my front porch late one night when I was smoking a cigarette. I’d never seen a cop dressed like that, and was leary about complying.Luckilly, I didn’t get tazered.
If we have Wichita police officers who can’t control a situation where they have numbers (it says officerS so they outnumbered the man by a minimum of two to one!), the element of surprise and good common sense including observation of a man clothed in a towel, then we need much better officers or better training. But hey, never mind everything else – it will be investigated and swept under the rug and they won’t be held accountable in any way and MOST IMPORTANT – they got some ACTION! They’re tough!
Tasers: the vanguard of American fascism. As exemplified by the pro-taser American fascists stinking up this thread.
Posted by: CF2K | December 05, 2007 at 08:48 AM
Leave it to CF2K to start with a flame. Thinking that being tased is better than being shot is “stinking up this thread”?You need your head examined.
pleefer: That guy arrived in Vancouver Canada and was tasered by the Mounties Lets give “credit” where “credit” is due.
I had a cop, dressed in black, shake me down on my front porch late one night…Posted by: The Phantom | December 05, 2007 at 08:50 AM
And what exactly did being “shook down” involve? Did he ask you for your name and identification? Did he throw you up against the wall? Did he tase you?
I suspect the officer was very polite as long as you were. I would appreciate having the cops check if they saw someone on my porch “late at night”.
So what difference does it make that the cop was “dressed in black”?
lindainks55,
Indeed. Tasers are the new panacea. Forget dealing with public or actual policing; taze first, ask questions later.
Or just bag the questions and taze.
Question:How many people have actually been tased in Wichita in the past year? I suspect that incidents of tasing are few and far between. Tasing incidents seem to always make a splash in the local news, and I just don’t recall hearing about that many instances of tasing.
A better question is how many people in Wichita ever have any encounter with police? I suspect it’s a low number. Then taking the number of people interacting compared to the number tased might bring a number with meaning.
Despite a recent small uptick in violent crime, most Americans are still by and large safer than they were in the crack-fueled early 1990s. The one notable exception is the people whose job it is to combat crime on a daily basis — the nation’s police officers, who are being targeted and killed in greater numbers than at any time in recent years.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1666750,00.html?xid=rss-nation“Criminologists point to a wide range of contributing factors to the sudden spike in cop killings. The continuing proliferation of military-grade firearms often leaves police outgunned, while some gang initiations now include the express targeting of police”
A better question is how many people in Wichita ever have any encounter with police? I suspect it’s a low number. Then taking the number of people interacting compared to the number tased might bring a number with meaning.
Posted by: lindainks55 | December 05, 2007 at 09:30 AM
“A better question is how many people in Wichita ever have any encounter with police? I suspect it’s a low number.”Linda, we’re only talking about people who have encounters with the police.
“Then taking the number of people interacting compared to the number tased might bring a number with meaning.”Respectfully, that’s gobbledegook, since we’re only talking about people who interact with police in the first place.
Sursum, my apologies as you are correct.
Google “Police and tasers” then go to videos. It is happening in greater numbers by the week (I dare not call it an “epidemic” for the benefit of those who are pro-torture).
And someone sitting on his own porch does not warrant having police come up to him and ask to see to “see his papers’.
Finally, Solomon, what is “your experience”? I’ve heard the lame excuse that, “if you’re not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about”. At who’s discretion is it deemed that “you’re doing something wrong”?
I believe he had me put my hands behind my back, and cuffed me. I wasn’t familiar with cops wearing black uniforms, and wasn’t sure he was even a cop! Guess I could have demanded an I.D., but then, who knows, might have gotten tazed!
Let’s shoot em with a 45 instead.
So, Solomon, are you in favor of some guns being controlled – ya know, in order to protect the nation’s police officers? Yeah, I didn’t think so.
In the recent Wichita incident, maybe they could try listening to things like a man telling them he can’t hear. Or maybe they could look at a man in a towel and see probably everything needed to determine he wasn’t armed, or they could feel that two (or more) trained officers with the element of surprise on their side might be able to handle one man in a towel all by themselves with no weapons used??
Maybe their attitude of “I have a gun!” could be tempered with a tiny bit of “I am here to protect”? Some sort of compromise?
They might not get to see as much action but they just might make our world a safer place.
Maybe they suspected a weapon was being hidden beneath the towel.
And someone sitting on his own porch does not warrant having police come up to him and ask to see to “see his papers’.Posted by: Pleefer | December 05, 2007 at 09:50 AMPleefer, How is a cop to know whether it was the homeowner? Keep in mind, Phantom said “late at night”.
I believe he had me put my hands behind my back, and cuffed me. I wasn’t familiar with cops wearing black uniforms, and wasn’t sure he was even a cop! Guess I could have demanded an I.D., but then, who knows, might have gotten tazed!
Posted by: The Phantom | December 05, 2007 at 09:59
“I believe he had me put my hands behind my back, and cuffed me.”Phantom, you don’t sound very sure of yourself. But if that IS the case, it sounds extreme, unless you mouthed off or didn’t cooperate (and I’m not insinuating that that’s the case).Yes, you should have requested identification. If that had gotten you tased, I’d hope you would enjoy the proceeds of the lawsuit you could have brought.
I’m not advocating using tasers being used without good reason.
So, Solomon, are you in favor of some guns being controlled – ya know, in order to protect the nation’s police officers? Yeah, I didn’t think so.Posted by: lindainks55 | December 05, 2007 at 10:00 AM
That would be a mistake on your part, linda. I do indeed see the need to control, and even ban some types of weapons. I see no reason why a sane person needs a fully automatic weapon. While I don’t like the idea, I can see reason to ban “assault weapons”, so long as we can agree what an “assault weapon” really is. AK 47s and such are too cheap and easy to get, and they’re used in too many crimes.
Solomon, so a cop can march into any home at will and “verify” that the owner is indeed the one in the home?
Solomon, so a cop can march into any home at will and “verify” that the owner is indeed the one in the home?
Posted by: Pleefer | December 05, 2007 at 10:20 AM
Peefer, there’s a world of difference between checking someone out on a porch late at night and “marching into any home at will”. Of course I don’t advocate that kind of thing.
Finally, Solomon, what is “your experience”? I’ve heard the lame excuse that, “if you’re not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about”.Posted by: Pleefer | December 05, 2007 at 09:50 AM
Pleefer, what do you think my experience is? I’m no angel. I’ve been a law-abiding citizen for 30 years. Before that….
“if you’re not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about”.I would strongly dissagree with that attitude. But that’s not the subject of the discussion, is it? You’re jumping to way too many conclusions.
I have no idea what your experience is. And I too have been a law abiding citizen for 34 years. But I resent the notion that because I’ve a distrust of law after law after law being “enforced” that I’m presumed to be a drug dealer. What I am is a freedom lover that refuses to lie down as the paranoid masses allow all of our precious and fragile freedoms to be taken from us. I’ll cite the oft overused quote from Benjamin Franklin here.”Those who would give up freedom for a little security deserve neither and will lose both”.
Pleefer,
If your house is being broken into who are you going to call?
“But I resent the notion that because I’ve a distrust of law after law after law being “enforced” that I’m presumed to be a drug dealer.”
I never said “drug dealer”. Excitable fellow, aren’t you?So what laws would you like to see not enforced?
“What I am is a freedom lover that refuses to lie down as the paranoid masses allow all of our precious and fragile freedoms to be taken from us.”
Tell me specifically what freedoms you feel you’ve lost. Not that I particularly disagree with you, but I doubt if you can name a freedom that you personally have been denied.
“Those who would give up freedom for a little security deserve neither and will lose both”.
Great quote, but it doesn’t fit the subject.
I hadn’t heard about the deaf guy tased by mistake, I hoped he sues and makes some money, if it was me I would make termination of the offending officers a condition of settling. Cops doing no knock, or raiding the wrong house is a problem, and G Gordon Liddy had as good a solution as any “shoot them in the head, kill the son of a bitch”
Was curious if anyone who reads this blog has had a up close and personal experience with a taser.
Kansas, I’ve been tased.
Yes, you did say drug USER. sorry about the misquote. My freedom of privacy was taken away at the signing of the USAPatriot Act.
And the quote fit the subject of the tangent that you and I went on. It fit in that the cop had no right to walk up to someone on his own porch and ask for his papers. All for the “safety” of the neighbors. A person is free to smoke on his front porch.
Hey Freebird, I’m calling Smith and Wesson. Then I’ll call the cops to come clean up.
“My freedom of privacy was taken away at the signing of the USAPatriot Act.”
In what way? What specifically can you not do now that you could do 7 years ago?
the one that comes to mind right now is that I can be at work and some cop can go to my home, go in and root through my stuff and I’d never knew they were there. So, I’ve lost my privacy. They can come arrest me and then go get a warrant. So I’ve lost a huge portion of my 4th Amendment.
“the one that comes to mind right now is that I can be at work and some cop can go to my home, go in and root through my stuff and I’d never knew they were there.”
Do you think that has happened to you?
They can come arrest me and then go get a warrant. So I’ve lost a huge portion of my 4th Amendment.
Pleefer, they’ve always been able to do that.
“In any one week, 7 citizens die from having a taser used on them. That is far more than any gunshot wound from a police officer.”- Pmom
Oh good grief.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-04-01-taser-report_x.htm
PMOM: I think that you are getting a little overboard with your stats. Here is an article that states: “There were 103 Taser stun gun-related deaths in the United States and Canada between June 2001 and March 2005, according to an Amnesty International report released Friday”.
Tasers are useful devices to control situations without lethal force or endangering the officers. But even the 103 seems excessive. Maybe a little more research into what caused those deaths?
Im more afraid of mistakes by the police ala’ tasing the deaf guy or shooting of Matt Clay for unbuckling his seat belt. Things like making sure you have right address, or following proper procedure when using force deadly or otherwise.
In regards to the taser deaths, could it be possible that the person being tased had a prexisting medical condition that was aggraveted by the tasing? It would be intresting to see some stats on that. Anyone know if any data has been gathered i this regard?
“”My freedom of privacy was taken away at the signing of the USAPatriot Act.”
In what way? What specifically can you not do now that you could do 7 years ago?
Posted by: Solomon | December 05, 2007 at 11:34 AM”
Checkout the Anarchist Cookbook from the library without showing up on a Federal watch list and subjected to surveilance.
Pleefer, I agree with you completely. We’ve lost much and we should pay close attention to Ben and his quote which fits perfectly!
You’ve stated your opinions on this subject very clearly, even tho some posters like to argue semantics and are like an old junkyard dog who won’t let it go. They seem to wanna sling it around by its neck long after its dead to see if they can’t get life back into it and play some more.
Fun, huh!? /sarcasm
“Im more afraid of mistakes by the police ala’ tasing the deaf guy or shooting of Matt Clay for unbuckling his seat belt. Things like making sure you have right address, or following proper procedure when using force deadly or otherwise.
Posted by: Tom Paine | December 05, 2007 at 11:51 AM ”
I second that
Thanks for the support linda.
Just because they “have been able to do that all along” doesn’t make it right or constitutional.
In regards to the taser deaths, could it be possible that the person being tased had a prexisting medical condition that was aggraveted by the tasing?Posted by: Freebird | December 05, 2007 at 11:59 AMFreebird, I would assume that would be the only way anybody would die from being tased, since the amperage is so low in a taser.
Checkout the Anarchist Cookbook from the library without showing up on a Federal watch list and subjected to surveilance.
Posted by: brian | December 05, 2007 at 12:14 PM
Don’t have to check it out. I own a copy from a long time ago.Agreed, that part of the Patriot Act is disturbing.
In regards to the taser deaths, could it be possible that the person being tased had a prexisting medical condition that was aggraveted by the tasing?Posted by: Freebird | December 05, 2007 at 11:59 AM
That’s another reason why tazing has to be restrained. Does the “perp” wear a pacemaker? I’d call the cops negligent and murderers if the tasing results in a death.
This too is even more disturbing:http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955
You’ve stated your opinions on this subject very clearly, even tho some posters like to argue semantics and are like an old junkyard dog who won’t let it go. They seem to wanna sling it around by its neck long after its dead to see if they can’t get life back into it and play some more.
Fun, huh!? /sarcasm
Posted by: lindainks55 | December 05, 2007 at 12:16 PM
Yes, Pleefer has stated his opinions very clearly and has provided an excellent discussion.
“even tho some posters like to argue semantics and are like an old junkyard dog who won’t let it go. They seem to wanna sling it around by its neck long after its dead to see if they can’t get life back into it and play some more.
Fun, huh!? /sarcasm
Posted by: lindainks55 | December 05, 2007 at 12:16 PM
Linda, do you usually get so cranky about discussion? So will you start name-calling since I don’t agree with you?
I’ve enjoyed this entire Kansas.com blog in all topics of discussion. Everyone of them (for the most part) has been civil and engaging.
That’s another reason why tazing has to be restrained. Does the “perp” wear a pacemaker? I’d call the cops negligent and murderers if the tasing results in a death.
Posted by: Pleefer | December 05, 2007 at 12:48 PM
So Pleefer, would you say it’s better to be shot than tased?
This too is even more disturbing:http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955
Posted by: Pleefer | December 05, 2007 at 12:49 PM
Pleefer, I read your link and it’s interesting. Did you note article 8 of SEC. 899B?`(8) Any measure taken to prevent violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism in the United States should not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of United States citizens or lawful permanent residents.
Looks like Nathan has a new nic.
I’m saying that police are taught hand-to-hand combat and take downs. Judo is an art quite capapble of disarming and take downs. If the police were serious about non-lethal methods they would use close-quarter-combat techniques.
Pleefer, I read your link and it’s interesting. Did you note article 8 of SEC. 899B?
That is semantics. Notice it says “should not” and not “must not”?
Looks like Nathan has a new nic.
Posted by: J R | December 05, 2007 at 01:02 PM
JR, are you accusing me of being Nathan?
If the police were serious about non-lethal methods they would use close-quarter-combat techniques.
Posted by: Pleefer | December 05, 2007 at 01:04 PM
Pleefer, does that apply to women cops also?I have some martial arts experience. Regardless of what you may have heard, size and streingth do count. And getting into a wrassling match with a “perp” could be seen by some as an unacceptable risk.
That is semantics. Notice it says “should not” and not “must not”?
Posted by: Pleefer | December 05, 2007 at 01:07 PM
I’m still looking at your link. You know, it’s a little hard to tell what the purpose of this commission “really” is.
I always see police responding to calls with two or more officers. There is a need for “back up”.
Maybe women police ought to stay being “meter-maids”. J/K!!!!!!
In any one week, 7 citizens die from having a taser used on them. That is far more than any gunshot wound from a police officer
You have anything to back that up with p.m.
The bill, obviuosly, is to stop homegrown terrorism before it starts. But the problem is that it is PRE-OFFENSE (so much for innocent until proven guilty). It doesn’t describe what a “homegrown terrorist” might look like. So anyone that says something disagreeable in a blog, on a phone, anywhere could be described as a potential terrorist. That may sound far-fetched but it will be implemented and then we’ll see.
I always see police responding to calls with two or more officers. There is a need for “back up”.
Maybe women police ought to stay being “meter-maids”. J/K!!!!!!
Posted by: Pleefer | December 05, 2007 at 01:21 PM
And I’ve seen many instances where patrol officers are alone. I don’t think that’s a very good idea, but budgetary constraints, etc.
“Maybe women police ought to stay being “meter-maids”. J/K!!!!!!”
Man, you must have some kind of deathwish, LOL!
That was a joke, hopefully I don’t get flamed too bad!. Sorry girls.
The bill, obviuosly, is to stop homegrown terrorism before it starts.Posted by: Pleefer | December 05, 2007 at 01:25 PM
Well, so much for the government’s ability to lay out anything clearly and concisely. To me, it looks like their point is to study and report. I guess you’d have to be a lawyer to really know what it says.
Skimming over this thread, I think the pro-tazer crowd misses the point.
Unlike using the club (euphemistically called a “baton”), tazing someone is EASY. Too easy. And if you don’t think they are plenty of “Respect-my-authoritie!” types among the police who will and do abuse it, you’re not facing reality.
Yeah, it’s a tough job. Oh, kewl!: this punk gives me any lip, and ZAP! Probably won’t kill him, and he’d have prove any lasting damage in court!
Also: the essence of “torture” is something that usually keeps someone ALIVE–and compliant. If not, zap him again!
Electricity has long been used as torture devices in “those other countries.” We should rethink its use here.
Linda, do you usually get so cranky about discussion? So will you start name-calling since I don’t agree with you?
Posted by: Solomon | December 05, 2007 at 12:52 PM
——————–
I can’t remember the last time I felt cranky. Usually a good night’s sleep is all that I require when I do feel out of sorts. It’s early in the day and I feel great! Did you see yourself or somehow identify with my posts? Hmmm, imagine that!
I never call other posters names. Why should I? Everyone has opinions. Do you disagree with me? I didn’t even know that! Guess I know now.
Rage, If you’ll check up thread, you’ll see that my point is, it’s better to be tazed than shot, or beaten to a pulp.
And if you don’t think they are plenty of “Respect-my-authoritie!” types among the police who will and do abuse it, you’re not facing reality.
I can’t disagree that they’re out there. How many, we may differ. I’ve run into a few of the “Nazi-type” myself, but far and away the majority of cops are good professional people.
The thing that surprises me is, there are so many cop-haters here. Cops have a tough job to do and have to deal with the dregs of society in a lot of cases. They’re out there to help and protect you, and I’m seeing a lot of vitrol here. Is it just lack of respect for authority?
Check these links out and tell me cops are not out of control when it comes to tasering people. And why was this story hidden? (Perhaps it wasn’t.) The Iola coverage is a prime example of how newspapers and authorities work hand in glove to perpetuate an official version. Contrast what you read in the releases with what is in the Topix forum from the same town.
http://www.iolaregister.com/Archives/News/Stories/2007/May/Taser%20report%20four%20weeks%20off.htmlhttp://www.iolaregister.com/Archives/News/Stories/2007/May/A%20free%20spirit%20is%20remembered.htmlhttp://www.iolaregister.com/Archives/News/Stories/2007/May/Officers%20Tasers%20a%20necessary%20tool.htmlhttp://www.iolaregister.com/Archives/News/Stories/2007/May/Iolan%20dies%20after%20Taser%20incident.htmlhttp://www.iolaregister.com/Archives/News/Stories/2007/May/Iolan%20dies%20after%20Taser%20incident.htmlhttp://www.iolaregister.com/Archives/News/Stories/2007/October/No%20charges%20in%20Taser%20death%20case.htmlhttp://www.topix.net/forum/city/topeka-ks/TN4BD6C7H7N81HODP
Sorry Linda, I must have misunderestimated your meaning.
“even tho some posters like to argue semantics and are like an old junkyard dog who won’t let it go. They seem to wanna sling it around by its neck long after its dead to see if they can’t get life back into it and play some more.
Fun, huh!? /sarcasm”
I seem to be the one who supports the use of tasers on this thread and I don’t consider my contribution to this discussion ”
slinging it around by its neck long after its dead to see if they can’t get life back into it and play some more.” Please show me where I’m “arguing semantics”.
Am I an “old junkyard dog”?
It’s a subject that intrests me, and a couple of others, too. If you’re not interested, may we continue without you?
When I was a kid I did respect the police. But being older and well out of school, I’ve watched the types that become cops. The ones that I personally know were either the bully-prick or the one that was picked on throughout school and is waiting for a little “payback”. Not always the case, but for me coming from a smaller town, it’s fact.
If there was one thing I could give the younger generation it would be the world of respect from my youth. Respect for parents, teachers, law enforcement, adults in general. If someone earned a lack of respect we didn’t bring it up. OK, maybe in private, we were human. I’m talking a long time ago and you know how it always seems better “back in the days of our youth.”
Door King,”according to Iola Police Department reports,Shrum was seen “acting in a bizarre manner” and nude near the intersection of Lincoln and Cottonwood streets early Tuesday and began to struggle with an officer who approached him.
How many people have you seen dancing nude in the street lately? How many times have you danced in the street nude lately? Why not? Wouldn’t such activity strike you as maybe a little crazy?
The guy resisted arrest and got tased. The results were unfortunate, but that can happen when you break the law.
The guy had a heart condition. Were the cops supposed to figure that out while the guy danced in the street nude at 1 am?
For sure that is the main problem with this country today. Apathy and lack of respect for anything. But you still have to earn respect, cause I’m not just going to give it out.
If there was one thing I could give the younger generation it would be the world of respect from my youth. Respect for parents, teachers, law enforcement, adults in general.Posted by: lindainks55 | December 05, 2007 at 02:01 PM
Ain’t that the truth? The fact is, there are always those who who have authority over you; boss, mom, whatever. That authority needs to be respected, even if it is the cops. That’s what we pay them for.
Being deaf and hard of hearing, I know what it is like to being surprised.I guess I should be careful; I could end up dead for it.It is pretty bad when cops are getting paranoid; it makes me question their abilities to function as law abiding citizens.
Respect must be earned. I say the Wichita police who tased the man who couldn’t hear didn’t earn respect. I truly hope they are held accountable, but have seen too many times in the past when investigations ended with the actions being deemed justified or some such language.
Maybe that’s the difference today. Too many get by with too much! Makes me question the whole system when we see what is deemed “acceptable, justified…”
It seems that the only way for the misdeeds of the police to be taken to task is when Los Angeles riots. Otherwise it’s all “justified”.
Respect must be earned. I say the Wichita police who tased the man who couldn’t hear didn’t earn respect.Posted by: lindainks55 | December 05, 2007 at 02:24 PM
Unquestionably, the police goofed on this one. But it supports what I’ve been saying. The guy recovered from being tased. Would he have been that fortunate if he’d been shot instead?
It seems that the only way for the misdeeds of the police to be taken to task is when Los Angeles riots. Otherwise it’s all “justified”.
Posted by: Pleefer | December 05, 2007 at 02:28 PM
So you think we should take to the streets and destroy a bunch of stuff?
So the taser itself is the policeman’s restraint?
Like they have itchy trigger fingers and are just needing to shoot someone?
Not at all. But it was scrutinized after that, they had to act on it and justice was served. If that hadn’t happened, it would still be business as usual in LA.
The UN was chartered in 1945 to replace another totally useless International Organization, the League of Nations.
Can anyone come up with anything the UN has done for the good of anyone?
Did they do anything to save any of the millions of Cambodian and other Asian lives that were lost after we left Vietnam? What have they done in Darfur? How about in Sudan? How about Uganda or any other countries?
What did the UN really do in Korea in the 50’s? Who is still there now? The US or the UN? How about doing anything useful in any other country?
What have they done about the Islamic Fanatics who behead or stone people to death in the name of religion? Yet they complain about the US putting killers and rapist to death?
Why should the UN have the authority to speak out against people being tasered by the Police?
When do they speak out about countries who beat people with canes and whips, or cut their hands or limbs off as punishment?
Who is it all the other countries come begging to for money, food, medical or any other kind of aide from in any natural or internal political or economic disaster?
Do you see the UN in a larger roll at any of these that the US Military or other aide agencies.
So the taser itself is the policeman’s restraint?Posted by: Pleefer | December 05, 2007 at 02:40 PM
No, just another weapon in the policeman’s arsenal of less than lethal weapons.
Another response that doesn’t include blowing the “Perp’s” brains all over the sidewalk.At least with a taser, in most cases there’s a “take-back” oportunity. When there’s a bullet involved, not so much.
Actually, solomon, the guy didn’t do a thing but streak, and the cops killed him for it, and then lied about it. That’s just as likely as the official version. I think you will find that the cops are killing more people with tasers than they ever did with gunshots. I wish I could find some reliable statistics.
Here’s the question: How many people were killed by police gunfire this year. How many died from reactions to tasers.
Friends, thank you for an interesting and informative discussion forum. Alas, I must leave you for the day. I’ll be around till the end of the week. I look forward to more discussion.
Respectfully,Solomon
take care Solomon.
Pleefer,
My question is that if the “perp” needed to be restrained by a taser, how is the officer to know of the suspects medical condition? Is he supposed to say “Excuse me,but do you have any medical problems I should know about before I tas you”?
Pleefer, I have enjoyed your posts even though I dont necessarialy agree with. At least you stay on topioc without attacking dissenting opinions.
Does anyone take the UN seriously anymore?
As to tasers, the correct question to ask, of course, is what is the alternative? Firearms? How many would have died had firearms had to be used rather than a taser? I don’t know if there is any way to answer that, but I suspect it is high, and the tradeoff probably saves lives.
Freebird,I seriously hate the tools that get on here and the playground crap. So thanks and I am enjoying reading what you have to say as well. And yeah, I dunno about the cops. Maybe they need to have some LED color code on thier uniforms. Y’know? The LED code could be “at red” and that means (in a robotic voice): “five seconds to comply, five seconds to comply”, “please remain calm we are here to help” and “please assume the position” (whatever the position would be). Just an idea.
The taser is simply a billy club that the cop can hit someone with at a distance. If they are actually in danger, they shoot the perp.
The police should use whatever amount of force is needed to bring about compliance on the part of the suspect(s). No more and no less. If the officer feels that a Taser should be deployed in his judgement, I am not going to substitute my judgement for his. When I watch COPS and they tase somebody, the person always deserved it. In many cases warnings were used and pepper spray ineffective. Unless a police officer is shown to be completely in the wrong, we need to stand behind our police. They are the only thing standing between civilization and chaos.