Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/22
- Regular on Open thread 11/22
- Regular on Open thread 11/22
- Rage on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- Chas on Open thread 11/22
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/22
- Boxlock20 on Open thread 11/22
- satatom on Open thread 11/22
- JimJohnson on Open thread 11/22
213 Comments
Hello, I want to express my concern with the Judicial System in Kansas. I have an Appeal for a Municipal Ticket filed in Miami County Kansas from a Paola City Ticket. Judge Amy L. Harth, the District Arraignment Judge refused me an Arraignemnt yesterday and has retained the case as the Judge. She allowed the Prosecutor to change my case to a “De Novo” case. This is Unconstitutional. A “De Novo” means “a new”. My case is be re-trialed and the review of the old case is being thrown out, which is against my appeal rights. In this she allowed me to be given a Criminal Case # instead of a Traffic Case #. Under an appeal, the information is transfered from the city case to the District Court setting and the information is reviewed by a new Judge. She denied this. I am filing with Kay McFarland in Topeka. She is the Chief Justice for District Appeal Cases in Topeka. I just thought you might be curious as to the difference in a “De Novo’ case and an “Appeal”. Look at http://www.uslegal.com and click on the definition of terms section. This is the “Blacks Law Dictionary Site” on the Internet. Paola and Miami County are Extorting us here and the Governor allows this. I can prove this. The AG, Morrison and former AG Kline are also involved. Stanton Hazlett in Topeka, who does Lawyer Disciplinary reviews is also on the take. The KBI refuses to help because they told me they work for the Kansas Government and do not assist or work for the Citizens of Kansas at all. This came from their Chief Counsel, Laura Grahmn, she is at 1-785-296-8207. Please insist on a Democracy and the return of out State and Federal Constitution. I am filing suit against the City and County as well as some State Employees. I will keep you posted. Herbert West III, Publisher/JOurnalist. west.herb@yahoo.com . P.S. I have a $170.oo traffic ticket. It is for an allegid “No left turn”. A city Section 50. It was upgraded to a Criminal Case # in retaliation for filing an appeal. If it was written by a Highway Patrolman, or a Deputy at the same spot, it would be $30.oo. The State gets $20.oo of this and the city gets $150.oo. They are allowing the Municipalities to Extort thru exagerated fine amounts. Drive carefully. HLWIII
The Bush regime and fellow neo-cons routinely decry socialist programs like Social Security, SCHIP, Medicare, etc. However, when Dick Cheney’s office caught on fire the first response fire team came out quickly to put it out. Bush and Cheney stood out with them for a lovely photo-op.
This is the same first response team that Bush wanted to cut the budget for because it’s a socialist program. If Bush had his way then he and Cheney would have to put out their own fire.
Fact is, socialism works and the fire department is one of the oldest, most successful socialist programs in America promoted by that socialist Ben Franklin.
In 1868 the Lakota were told, “the black hills will be your as long as the grass grows and the water runs”.Then in 1875 when gold was found in the Black hills a fake letter was sent to the Secretary of War from the Secretary of Indian affair. Stating the Lakota were in a uprising and violating the treaty, asking for the War department’s help in quailing the upraising. Shortly after that one Lt. General G.A. Custer went up the Powder river and into history at the Little big Horn.
Sources: Son of the morning star.Black Elk speaks.
In 1868 the Lakota were told, “the black hills will be your as long as the grass grows and the water runs”.Then in 1875 when gold was found in the Black hills a fake letter was sent to the Secretary of War from the Secretary of Indian affair. Stating the Lakota were in a uprising and violating the treaty, asking for the War department’s help in quailing the upraising. Shortly after that one Lt. General G.A. Custer went up the Powder river and into history at the Little big Horn.
Sources: Son of the morning star.Black Elk speaks.
Ya know, Dog, that yellow metal drives the Wasachus crazy.
Exuding overt emotionality first thing in the morning isn’t really my cup o’ tea, however….
This morning, radio station 105.3 played “I’ll Be Home For Christmas…..If Only In My Dreams” against a backdrop of U.S. troops stationed abroad – expressing Christmas wishes to their families far, far away…..
And this world-weary wench just about lost it.
G–D–n this war! What has it gotten us? What discernible benefits has it provided?
The late Pope John Paul II declared that every life has value – even that of the most hardened criminals. This is a noble principle; it is not without merit. It should provide food for thought and deep reflection.
It’s something I cannot live up to – not when considering Bin Laden’s gang of murderous lunatics.
It’s not our brave individuals overseas whom I disdain – it’s the nebulous nature of this war that I distrust. And the thought of our troops missing the Christmas holidays – especially those with spouses and young children – why, that just about rent me asunder this morning.
And I’ve always been acutely sensitive to music – so that particular song surely amplified the poignancy. I’m just glad that my emotions haven’t gone the way of almost everything else these days….I’m that concerned of a citizen.
I’m just glad my copious tears didn’t ruin my makeup – I’m that vain a broad.
Some things never change…….
A lot of passion in your post Self-Possessed and Sexxee.
I spent several years overseas and during several holiday seasons.
May I suggest something?
Instead of that post wish describes your mixed emotions – why not send a post card, letter or care package to a troop overseas. It doesn’t have to be Iraq or Afghanistan.
You want to warm a heart and bring a smile, do that.
I have sent and been the recipient of said packages. It does wonderful things on both sides of the ‘pond.’
That is a very good idea, Kansas – a very good idea indeed.
Thanks.
Darn you two I was loaded for bear and then read your exchange. Yes those oversea and away from home are in my thought and prays daily. As for “I’ll be home for Christmas” that song has a special place in my family. Its a story my Grandma told every Christmas, My uncle was in the Europe theater during World War two. One day a couple of week before Christmas a package arrived, it was flat and had a letter attached. The Letter read: “Dear mom, Dad, and sis Mary I hope to be home by Christmas day. But if fate does not have it in the cards. Please play this record at 8 A.M. Christmas morning and think of me. As I will be thinking of you at that time here. Love Ray”
They did not unwrap the package, Uncle did not make it home by Christmas morning so they unwrapped the Record and played it at exactly 8 A.M. The song was “I’ll be home for Christmas”. He did make it home on Dec. 29th.
Mr. West,
When one appeals from a municipal court decision to the district court, the trial of the case (yes, it is not a true appeal in the sense you are using the term) is de novo under the appropriate Kansas statute governing same. Sorry, I don’t have the cite right at hand.
As to assignment of a new case number, that is, of course, a part of the appeal; a de novo trial is a new case in the district court.
BTW self, don’t think anything about the copious tears I am six two and 180, fifty y.o. and it is a good thing I am not wear makeup right now. Yeah my emotions run pretty deep myself, but hey the good news it my youngest has made it home from basic just in time for Christmas. Maybe a while before that happens again so this is to be a merry one.
Disappointing to see the number of restaurants, bars and movie houses that will be open Christmas Day — the Malls will be closed ………
Was a time (30-40 years ago – ouch) when the day was spent visiting family and friends and nothing – save for churches – was open (I do remember the neighborhood bar, the Hub in Chicago would open around 6 pm)
Mr. West;
Vaughn is exactly correct. An appeal from a municipal conviction to district court is tried de novo, and yes, it would get a new case number assigned by the district court clerk. See KSA 22-3609, 21-3610.
I’d also note that trial to the district court is to the bench, i.e. without a jury, unless you request jury trial in writing within seven days of after first notice of trial assignment. In other words, if you want a jury, you’d better request one quickly.
It doesn’t sound like there is anything improper here.
Question: Are you represented by counsel? Given your confusion over court procedures, I might respectfully suggest that you could benefit from at least consultation with counsel.
Good luck.
BTW all -
Got another phone call from the nut complaining about his Johnson County case, Bumblebee whatever.
Where is he getting the dollars to fund this lunatic campaign?
ken,
I worked at a gas station when I was sixteen years old on Christmas day.
We were off the beaten path and away from the Interstate. I don’t know how, but it seemed like every car from miles around came to the gas station I worked at.
I had three lanes of cars, five deep and it seem to me all of the customers wanted to use credit cards which slowed things down. You know, that old fashion credit card swiper with carbon paper and everything had to be filled out by hand.
That was the day of full service. Which meant all windows had to be washed, tires checked and if the customer wanted, oil and transmission fluids checked.
Needless to say, after a very long ten hours at the gas station with zero breaks, I was exhausted and almost frozen to the core.
I got home early morning on December 26th about 2 a.m. I did what one could expect, I slept.
My mom made me some french toast when I woke up and I could see the holiday lights still glowing from the previous night.
My father came to me and saw that I was still a bit frazzled and spoke to me. He said, you know I bet you are tired, but I bet those people traveling on Christmas Day were relieved that gas station was opened and you were there.
I felt better after my father talked to me and the French toast made my stomach mellow.
I put band aids on my hands where I had busted some knuckles fixing a few flats on Christmas day in addition to all of the other services I had performed.
One of the flats I had fixed was for a stately looking gentleman. He had forgotten his checkbook and wallet, so I fixed it for him free of charge.
My boss saw me a few days later and said he had gotten a phone call. It was from the Lt. Governors office and he was thanking him for the fine service he received on the frozen Christmas night.
I feel better about that night after some reflection and chalked the harsh conditions up to experience that someone has to do these jobs. I did, and am the better for it.
I was sure pleased Wednesday afternoon when I logged into kansas.com and read that suspects were in custody in the homocide cases in Butler and Lyon counties. I have confidence in our law enforcement agencies and the criminal justice system, but it’s nice to know that business is being taken care of. Ataboys to all those agencies and court and diplomatic officials involved.
Lawyeree ones, I’ve always heard there is a favorable bias from the bench towards the jucdgement of an individual if s/he is represented by counsel. In your opinion, do you agree or disagree?
Phantom, I’m in no position to discuss judicial attitudes towards those who are represented by counsel compared with those appearing pro se. I will say that it is a good thing to at least consult with counsel before making the decision to proceed pro se.
In general, in my years of practice, the cases where there is representation usually proceed better and more smoothly, often for the reason of understanding of procedure. This, of course, assists everyone involved in the process, whether judge, attorney, or the parties.
I feel better about that night after some reflection and chalked the harsh conditions up to experience that someone has to do these jobs. I did, and am the better for it.
What b.s.; no matter what it is, Kansas has done it, and lied about it.
I think I’d heard that since the judge, that used to be a lawyer, would be naturally inclined to have a bias toward the party that was represented by same.
Sorry Door King, I didn’t think working at a gas station was a great feat of accomplishment, just wanted to share the story.
But please, continue on being bitter about life.
While making my patient rounds the other day, I had a flat tire. I pulled into a collision repair busness closeby on Central. I couldn’t get my husband on the phone, but before I could even get out of my car to try and find help, a young man came out of the business to see what the problem was..he changed my tire in 5 minutes and refused to take payment for it. Thanks to people like that I still have faith in the goodness of people. You won’t be forgotten by those you helped Kansas.
Phantom:
I don’t think there is a bias toward persons represented vs, those who proceed pro se. However, as VT notes, having counsel makes the process go smoother, and makes for a more persuasive presentation of arguments by someone who understands how to argue to a court effectively.
In that sense, yes, persons with counsel probably end up with better outcomes in court.
I feel better about that night after some reflection and chalked the harsh conditions up to experience that someone has to do these jobs. I did, and am the better for it.
What b.s.; no matter what it is, Kansas has done it, and lied about it.
Posted by: Door King
Mega dittos, Door King.
I was almost believing it until I saw the signature line . . .
The man lies about Christmas.
I guess that’s what one does when one is a dessicated near-corpse stuck to his chair all day — make up $hit about a glorious past that never was.
At least it keeps him indoors and away from little kids and decent society . . .
And using CON logic, no one should be glad about anyone who has to work Christmas day.
They chose the job–if they don’t like it, they can quit.
The employers are making money, nothing more. It it wasn’t profitable, they wouldn’t do it or be able to do it. The unseen hand of the market-place etc. etc.
It’s all just natural and inevitable, in CON think.
So you did nothing on that cold Christmas, Kansas, (even if you had really done something, which you hadn’t) . . . you just responded to market forces for your own best interest.
Merry CONristmas . . .
Boy what a story.
Ya gotta love it when a a guy claims working class hero status and then shows every way every day how he has forgotten where he “came from”. It was a freaking Hallmark moment til I got to the sig line.
Regarding the issue of sending notes and/or packages to serving troops, if I am not mistaken, I read from somewhere that without specific name and address, the military will NOT deliver, and instead will throw the packages away, as a precaution in heightened alert situation. Is that true?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/12/open-thread–18.html#comment-94434698
Capn, JR.
I see you have your usual blinders firmly in place. And a Merry Christmas to you too.
Now, WHO are the disruptive posters? Hmmmmmm?
Wrong again Capn…
I wanted a car and my Dad said “fine, work for it” – so I did.
Actually started at the age of eleven delivering newspapers. I bailed and stacked hay, mowed lawns and did anything I could to get money so I could broaden my choices.
Thanks Mary for the kind words. It’s posters like you that keep me going with your gracious and thoughtful words.
Roo ster
As the father of a Marine who has been to the sandbox, I don’t think so. If you want to do so, what I might suggest to increase the likelihood of someone getting the package is to find out what units are serving, especially Guard or Reserve units from your area, if any, and address the package to the particular unit, addressed to “Marines (or other service of your choice)” of the ______ unit.
Someone will enjoy your thoughtfulness.
Here you go Rooster, some organization that send care packages.
http://www.anysoldier.com/
http://www.opgratitude.com/
http://www.treatsfortroops.com/
http://www.operationshoebox.com/
I used the treatfortroops for some relatives and some of their buddies. They enjoyed the treats
Talk about judging people…man you guys need to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.I think too many of you (from both sides) come here just to hate and bash people.
What is it about men that it’s so important to “one up” each other?No wonder there is always a war going on someplace in the world.
Right now my brother-in-law is in intensive care and may not see another Xmas..please say a prayer for him if you can take some time out from the fighting.
Merry Christmas anyway.
GMC–
If you enjoy getting played for the sucker you are, then keep believing Kansas.
It doesn’t even make good horse$hit . . .
Fixing flats on Christmas, bruised knuckles?
C’mon. Even YOU can’t buy that load.
Don’t most people wear . . . oh, I dunno . . . GLOVES on cold days when they’re fixing flats.
This was a transparent lie like all of Kansas’s other transparent lies so that he could play the hurt “victim” when anyone with half a brain called him out on his transparent lie.
Then all the other CONs could come a-running with “look at the big mean LIBs.”
I’m out for the day. This is too, too much . . .
And btw, look who just hijacked the thread and made it all about him.
Mary–
You seem like a kind and honest person.
My thoughts and prayers go with you and your family.
Don’t waste any concerns for Troll-boy. He’s right where he wants to be–the center of attention.
You have obviously never broken down a tire to fix it Capn – at least not the way they used to.
Where all one had was a tire breaker bar and a tire stand – no hydraulic tire machines in a small gas station like that.
Tires back then were fixed with inner tubes and patches. A rubber awl was used to, patch wheel,tire glue and rubber patches.
One had to find the leak if it wasn’t apparent. Either dunking it in a tub to find the bubbles or if the tank was frozen like it was on that day, taking the tire inside maintenance bay and using the hose to run over the tire, so the leak could be found by following the bubbles.
New stems were always put in where I worked.
Big truck tires are a different story, I didn’t like to repair them and there was always a danger in repairing them because of those blasted rings.
I had a trap line that had to be run on freezing cold winter’s days, Christmas too.
Tell it to the marines . . .
Leaving, Capn? Wish I could say I was sorry, but – good riddance. Try to pick your sorry attitude out of the trash before you go, however. Those around you will appreciate it.
You say it’s a lie. You carry the burden. Prove it.
When I was little, I had to walk to school ten miles uphill in five feet of snow. Then there was the time I killed a bar’ with muh loose leaf notebook.
There is a lady in California that started sending packages to Iraq when her son was there. The following year when her son was home he told her how much the gifts meant so she decided to do it again. I heard about her on Neal Bortz. I have donated the last two years and this year I believe she sent over 3000 gifts. These went to the marine units because that is the branch her son is in.
I am grateful we have those willing to give of their own time and resources to bring a smile and maybe a tear to our brave military men and women serving their countries away from home for the holidays.
Great story Kansas. I worked in a FW Woolworth store as soon as I turned 16. Remember the Christmas Eves we stayed very late for those late shoppers who didn’t get paid until the end of the workday on December 24th. By the time they shopped things were very picked over.
One man in particular brings to mind a story about his Christmas Eve shopping. We had one housecoat left and that is what his wife wanted. The problem it was a size seven and he told me she was a little plump. I knew we would see her the following week but he had a gift to put under the tree.
Happy holiday memories to all.
“I guess that’s what one does when one is a dessicated near-corpse stuck to his chair all day — make up $hit about a glorious past that never was.”
Nice Capn. What a total a$$hole you are! Merry Christmas!
We ate dirt. And we were THANKFUL for it. And when there was a little bit of water, we had ourselves gravy.
For those who call Bush the worst President ever, somehow he has managed to lasso a Democrat Socialist Majority Congress, and whip them soundly.
If Bush is so bad, what are Democrats, if not just plain weak?
Here’s a nice summary of the 2007 beating of Congress, by Bush, the worst President ever.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/la-na-congress21dec21,1,4762632.story?track=crosspromo&coll=la-news-politics-national&ctrack=1&cset=true
Bush boxed in his congressional foes
Democrats took the Hill but were stymied by a steadfast president.By Janet Hook, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
December 21, 2007
WASHINGTON — Just over a year ago, a chastened President Bush acknowledged that his party had taken a “thumping” in the congressional elections, and he greeted the new Democratic majority at the weakest point of his presidency.
But since then, Democrats in Congress have taken a thumping of their own as Bush has curbed their budget demands, blocked a cherished children’s health initiative, stalled the drive to withdraw troops from Iraq and stymied all efforts to raise taxes.
Is Schneider getting hammered by the unfair tort system? Should a Dr. be held accountable if his patients have an accidental O.D.?Let the Repubs. begin screaming about the unjustice of it all.
Bush is lamenting the waste of time and money by congress. No doubt he hates seeing them wasted on programs over here, when they could be wasted over there!
The lesson loud and clear is ongress should have been given more progressives. And, if you truly want to change our foreign policy it is incumbent on the public to vote in a Dem. who wants to end this foolishness!The message will not be lost on the public.
Phantom:
Don’t get me started on Schneider. Just let me say that I’m shedding no tears. And that’s all I can, and will, say.
so f****ng glad I posted this morning. A simple observation —
The Bush regime and fellow neo-cons routinely decry socialist programs like Social Security, SCHIP, Medicare, etc. However, when Dick Cheney’s office caught on fire the first response fire team came out quickly to put it out. Bush and Cheney stood out with them for a lovely photo-op.
This is the same first response team that Bush wanted to cut the budget for because it’s a socialist program. If Bush had his way then he and Cheney would have to put out their own fire.
Fact is, socialism works and the fire department is one of the oldest, most successful socialist programs in America promoted by that socialist Ben Franklin.Posted by: Doug | December 21, 2007 at 02:32 AM
——————————————————————–Doug, Fire and Police protection are not Socialist programs.
Basic government services like Police and Fire protection provide the same service to ALL people. And ALL people benefit equally from this service.
Your Socialist programs Doug, take money from those who earn it – and give it to those who did not. We do not all benefit equally from Socialist government programs.
Some pay. Others benefit.
Ya see the difference?
National Defense is another example. Protecting America benefits ALL Americans. It is a Core Government Service that benefits ALL equally.
And no, Social Security does not benefit ALL Americans equally.
Those who die before age 62 get nothing.
Those who live beyond age 62, and make $100,000/year get almost the same benefits as those who make $25,000/year and live beyond age 62.
See the difference?
Socialism Doug, by definition, is the redistribution of wealth for the benefit of only some of the people, with the tax burden on only some of the other people.
This is not equal protection under the law by any means. It is purely Socialism.
And the free handouts Doug, are used by Democrats to buy your votes. Think about it. Aren’t you being selfish for wanting take from others, what you did not earn?
JR–
YOU ate dirt, too.
I thought only my family had to do that.
Did I ever tell you all about the time that we had a big Christmas snow storm and I went out like I usually do in my four wheel drive truck with the blade to shovel out old ladies’ driveways?
Well, one Christmas, I saw a stranded car buried in a snow drift. I helped pull the car out, but the woman who was in labor started to give birth at that moment.
I had to help deliver the infant. I followed along to the hospital to pull the car back on the road in case they slid off again.
I got a letter from my Congressman thanking me for meritorous service . . .
True story.
I almost forgot to mention–they named the boy after me.
And his middle name is Christmas.
I kid you not.
National Defense is another example. Protecting America benefits ALL Americans. It is a Core Government Service that benefits ALL equally.
And no, Social Security does not benefit ALL Americans equally.
Those who die before age 62 get nothing.
*****
Max–
Using that logic, defense doesn’t benefit all equally. Because the people who die this year aren’t protected by military even though they paid into the system.
I’ll let Doug handle the rest of that non-sequitor post.
Great read on Eleanor Roosevelt and the 2A.
Her Own BodyguardGun-packing First Lady.
That determined grandmother, of course, was Eleanor Roosevelt. And it was Eleanor’s handgun, not some hired bodyguard, that helped her stay alive in the face of real danger.
What a perfect example of how the Second Amendment is really the cornerstone of our Bill of Rights, the guarantor of all others. It was the exercise of her Second Amendment rights that empowered Eleanor Roosevelt to use her First Amendment rights to crusade for the Fourteenth Amendment rights of blacks.
http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel012402.shtml
My guess is she’d be pretty disgusted with a good chunk of the left in America today.
There’s also the Christmas that I saved a family of missionaries and their prize beagles from carbon monoxide poisoning.
Turned out their furnace was malfunctioning and I was bringing a food basket when I noticed . . .
BUT, I think I’ll save that for another time.
So somewhere there is a child named Captain Christmas. What a great story. You did a good thing Cap. I don’t care what the others say. Have a very Merry Christmas.
“The National Review.”
These are the same people who want us to invade IRAN.
‘Nuff said.
I just love it when bloggers share their happy memories of times past. Kinda of like Ebenezer Scrooge. Maybe we’ll all recognize the hope that is Christmas and embrace it.
Thanks, Ksgrm.
That’s one of the times in my life I can really look back on with a sense of pride.
I often wonder how little Christmas Johnson is doing these days . . .
Atmospheric scientist Dr. Nathan Paldor, Professor of Dynamical Meteorology and Physical Oceanography at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem has authored almost 70 peer-reviewed studies and won several awards. “First, temperature changes, as well as rates of temperature changes (both increase and decrease) of magnitudes similar to that reported by IPCC to have occurred since the Industrial revolution (about 0.8C in 150 years or even 0.4C in the last 35 years) have occurred in Earth’s climatic history. There’s nothing special about the recent rise!” Paldor told EPW on December 4, 2007. “Second, our ability to make realizable (or even sensible) future forecasts are greatly exaggerated relied upon by the IPCC. This is true both for the numerical modeling efforts (the same models that yield abysmal 3-day forecasts are greatly simplified and run for 100 years!),” Paldor explained. “Third, the rise in atmospheric CO2 is much smaller (by about 50%) than that expected from the anthropogenic activity (burning of fossil fuels such as oil, coal and natural gas), which implies that the missing amount of CO2 is (most probably) absorbed by the ocean. The oceanic response to increasing CO2 concentration in the atmosphere might be much slower than that of the atmosphere (and is presently very poorly understood). It is quite possible that after an ‘adjustment time’ the ocean (which contains far more CO2 than the atmosphere) will simply increase its biological activity and absorb the CO2 from the atmosphere (i.e. the atmospheric CO2 concentration will decrease),” he added. “Fourth, the inventory of fossil fuels is fairly limited and in one generation we will run out of oil. Coal and natural gas might take 100-200 years but with no oil their consumption will increase so they probably won’t last as long. The real alternative that presently available to humanity is nuclear power (that can easily produce electricity for domestic and industrial usage and for transportation when our vehicles are reverted to run on electricity). The technology for this exists today and can replace our dependence on fossil fuel in a decade! This has to be made known to the general public who is unaware of the alternative for taking action to lower the anthropogenic spewing of CO2. This transformation to nuclear energy will probably rake place when oil reserves dwindle regardless of the CO2 situation,” he wrote. Paldor also noted the pressure for scientists to bow to the UN IPCC view of climate change. “Many of my colleagues with whom I spoke share these views and report on their inability to publish their skepticism in the scientific or public media,” he concluded.
For Dr. Nathan Paldor’s CV:
http://earth.huji.ac.il/staff-details.asp?topic=2&id=183
Using that logic, defense doesn’t benefit all equally. Because the people who die this year aren’t protected by military even though they paid into the system.
I’ll let Doug handle the rest of that non-sequitor post.Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 21, 2007 at 11:01 AM
——————————————————————–And all Americans who die in any given year Capn, no longer get government benefits. That happens to everyone equally. Even your Democratic party can’t help you in heaven or hell, or in dirt if that’s what you believe in.
However, Social Security benefits are only paid to those who live long enough to get them. Some live longer and get something, others die early and get nothing. That’s not equal.
But then, you Socialist don’t want equality. You want redistribution of wealth so that YOU get More (even though you didn’t EARN IT), and OTHERS get Less.
Merry Christmas Capn, and in the spirit of Socialism, may you Get more this year, then what you Give.
Well,
I don’t like to brag.
But there was that time I saved Christmas.
1994 it was. The Republicans had just taken Congress.
I got a call from Santa Clause. He was real down.
Santa and I go way back. We met in Iran after the Shah was overthrown. Where was I?
Oh yeah Christmas. Well Santa he was down. With the Republicans in and all he was thinking maybe his mission of bringing love and joy was becoming a quaint, but tired thing. “Maybe I should tell the kids to make their own toys. Or tell them they should be thankful for what they don’t have. That seems to be the attitude these days.”
I told him he had it all wrong. I said “Just watch what the Republicans do. The people will get hip to them. Greed and self centeredness run deep. But at heart, people WANT to help each other. Gosh Santa, if ever the world had a need for a message of love and hope it’s now!”
Well we talked into the night. And in the end Santa made his flight.
And still he does to this very day.
And that’s how I saved Christmas it’s all true.
Hey Santa? For an old friend, could ya do something for me? Find the meanest, stingiest, greedy, self righteous Republican jerk on your list.
Or skip checking your list twice and pick on Dick Cheney.
Then take a big ol’ dump under his Christmas tree.
http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel012402.shtml
My guess is she’d be pretty disgusted with a good chunk of the left in America today.
Posted by: Heckler | December 21, 2007 at 11:03 AM
Wow Heckler. Didn’t know Eleanor was a pistol packin 1st Lady! Good article.
Lookin for a Springfield XD Compact 45 for my wife! If she doesn’t like it, I guess I’ll have to carry it.
Hey Santa? For an old friend, could ya do something for me? Find the meanest, stingiest, greedy, self righteous Republican jerk on your list.
Or skip checking your list twice and pick on Dick Cheney.
Then take a big ol’ dump under his Christmas tree.
Posted by: J R | December 21, 2007 at 11:36 AM
——————————————————————–
WE EAGLE:
You leave garbage posts like this and pulled the post about the Korean War?!?
I went back to see who posted that so I could reply, and it is gone!
WTF?
I haven’t, in a long time, laughed as much as I have this morning.
J R and Capn, you guys are too much. The “gravy” thing still cracks me up.
Thanks and Merry Christmas.
Off now to finish my Christmas shopping and do MY PART for fighting socialism.
Before I go, what would constitute acceptable proof of the accuracy of the Norman-Rockwell-embellished post by the JMkansas? That would seem a little hard to come by now wouldn’t it? Maybe JMK has an 8 millimeter home movie of that night and morning?
We ate dirt…
Posted by: J R | December 21, 2007 at 10:35 AM
___________
I’m believing that. I believe Crapn ‘n Jar ingested a lot of dirt and other things that normal people reckon as garbage, for it seems that that is all that comes back out.
(Must have been quite a bit of soured cream hatefulness and fibrous bitterness in those diets, too.)
However, Social Security benefits are only paid to those who live long enough to get them. Max
Surviving spouse and children.
Posted by: Comment | December 21, 2007 at 11:33 AM
IF you have a qualifying spouse and children, they would get
s o m e survivor benefits.
The poor guy or gal that worked his or her entire life paying $200,000 in FICA for 40 years gets not one dime, if he dies before age 62.
You Socialist Supporters have more excuses then Bill Clinton zipping up when Monica was done with him.
The poor guy or gal that worked his or her entire life paying $200,000 in FICA for 40 years gets not one dime, if he dies before age 62.
Just think – half the people die before the average life expectancy age. That’s why it’s, well an average.
So they pay in forty years, and collect, what maybe six?
Seems like I could have invested my money myself with a better rate of return and had use of all of it during my six years of plenty.
Of course, I couldn’t leave it to my kids – according to the libs they do not deserve an inheritance!
Amway,
You must have failed 8th Grade Algebra. You’ve hopelessly confused “median” with “average.”
Is this what passes for modern American “conservatism?” “I have no idea what I’m talking about, but I’m gonna spout off anyway.”
:::sigh:::
We used to make ice cream out of snow.
“Basic government services like Police and Fire protection provide the same service to ALL people. And ALL people benefit equally from this service.” –Max
That is the definition of socialism. You are thinking fascism, where money is taken from the taxpayers and given to individuals and corporations for the sake of benefiting individuals and corporations. That would be what the Republican party does especially with the gang raping contractors in Iraq.
A Soldier’s Suicide: Did He Have to Die?
By Kimberly Hefling
The Associated Press
Sanford, North Carolina – Pfc. Jason Scheuerman nailed a suicide note to his barracks closet in Iraq, stepped inside and shot himself.
“Maybe finaly I can get some peace,” said the 20-year-old, misspelling “finally” but writing in a neat hand.
His parents didn’t find out about the note for well over a year, and only then when it showed up in a government envelope in his father’s rural North Carolina mailbox.
The one-page missive was among hundreds of pages of documents the soldier’s family obtained and shared with The Associated Press after battling a military bureaucracy they feel didn’t want to answer their questions, especially this: Why did Jason Scheuerman have to die?
What the soldier’s father, Chris, would learn about his son’s final days would lead the retired Special Forces commando, who teaches at Fort Bragg, to take on the very institution he’s spent his life serving – and ultimately prompt an investigation by the Army Inspector General’s office.
The documents, obtained by Freedom of Information Act requests filed by Chris Scheuerman, reveal a troubled soldier kept in Iraq despite repeated signs he was going to kill himself, including placing the muzzle of his weapon in his mouth multiple times.
Jason Scheuerman’s story – pieced together with interviews and information in the documents – demonstrates how he was failed by the very support system that was supposed to protect him. In his case, a psychologist told his commanders to send him back to his unit because he was capable of feigning mental illness to get out of the Army.
He is not alone. At least 152 U.S. troops have taken their own lives in Iraq and Afghanistan since the two wars started, contributing to the Army’s highest suicide rate in 26 years of keeping track. For the grieving parents, the answers don’t come easily or quickly
No Tom, I’m not confused.
Life expectancy is the average number of years a human has before death.
A white male, for example, born in 1960 has an average life expectancy of 67.4 years. How many will die before that age?
Regardless, for that same person born in 1960, they do not reach full social security benefits until age 67.
So, how many will live to collect full benefits?
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005148.html
Source: National Center for Health Statistics, National Vital Statistics Reports, vol. 54, no. 19, June 28, 2006. Web: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs.
“However, Social Security benefits are only paid to those who live long enough to get them. Some live longer and get something, others die early and get nothing. That’s not equal.” –Max
Actually Social Security is paid out to those who become disabled or lose a spouse and you don’t need to be old to get that. All people benefit from Social Security because it has been the most successful program in reducing poverty for the elderly.
Let’s use your reasoning though. You’ll view government funded medical research as evil since people might not live long enough to get cancer in order to benefit from the research. If everyone gets cancer then that is a good thing so we can benefit from the research.
Or for that matter all the money is wasted on nuclear warheads because a lot of people didn’t live long enough to die in a nuclear war. You can’t say that having nukes prevented conflict because that would be like saying social security is beneficial because it prevented poverty.
Your line of reasoning is illogical.
You all have a wonderful Christmas Weekend!! I will be back Christmas Eve!!
MERRY XRMAS
American Way,
The number you give is indeed the average life expectancy at birth for a white male born in 1960. However, a better way (IMHO) to examine this is to ascertain what the average remaining life expectancy of a white male is at age 40, for example; as reported in the 2003 tables available at the link below, such a person has an average life expectancy of 39.8 years. From another table, as of 2003, out of 100,000 live births of white males then age 40, 95,835 were expected to be living; if one looks at white males of age 65, out of 100,000 white male live births, 79,989 would be expected to still be living.
Thus, merely looking at the average life expectancy at birth does not accurately reflect the potential for living sufficient time to collect benefits.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lifexpec.htm
VT, I agree with you. I should not have said half die before reaching that age. Having read Max’s post, my point was that not everyone will live to collect the money they contributed to SS over a lifetime of contributions. Suffice it to say – many will not collect for very many years, particularly if they wait until full retirement age to start drawing benefits.
http://engineeringmyfinances.blogspot.com/2007/08/when-will-you-die.html
‘400 Prominent Scientists Dispute Global Warming – Bunk’http://www.desmogblog.com/400-prominent-scientists-dispute-global-warming-bunk
“Morano’s list of “over 400″ alleged climate quibblers includes the usual deniers for hire Fred Singer, Tim Ball, Christoper Monckton, PR people who have no credibility on issues scientific and who each have a handsome record of saying things widely and demonstrably at variance with the truth.
There is also a group of second-order “scientists,” who are not scientists at all.
There’s “Dr. Richard Courtney, a British coal journal editor whose PhD is rumoured to have issued from a Crackerjack box….Finally, Morano includes a group of legitimate scientists who are not deniers at all, but who are often quoted out of context.”
More at link.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Marc_Morano
“Morano was “previously known as Rush Limbaugh’s ‘Man in Washington,’ as reporter and producer for the Rush Limbaugh Television Show, …”
Cosmos,
You picked a handful out of those 400.
So what does that leave us with, 350 now instead?
Either way, the point is that there is not a concensus and that there are many scientists who disagree with the conclusions alarmists like you are trying to scare people with.
Welcome home boy!
When are you working this weekend?
Pa
Hey cosmos,
Here’s Dr Nathan Paldor’s CV. I don’t see any mention of Exxon, Scientology, the RNC or the Missouri coal alliance. He seems to be pretty credible.
Professor of dynamical meteorology and physical oceanography
Date of Resume: May, 2007
Languages: English, Hebrew
Education
Summer 1983 – Post Doctoral Fellow, Woods Hole Oceanographic Inst., Summer Program in Geophysical Fluid Dynamics; Woods Hole, MA 02135
1979-1982 Ph.D.- Physical Oceanography, Graduate School of Oceanography University of Rhode Island; Kingston, RI 02881
1973-1976 M.Sc.-Applied Physics (Electro-Optics), Weizmann Institute of Science; Rehovot, 76100 Israel
1970-1973 B.Sc. – Cum Laude – Mathematics and Physics, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem; Jerusalem, 91904 Israel
Academic Experience
1985 – Present: Department of Atmospheric Sciences, Institute of Earth Sciences; The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
1982 – 4/1985: Post Doctoral Fellow; Geo-science Group, Department of Isotope Research,
The Weizmann Institute of Science; Rehovot, 76100 Israel
1976 – 1979: Research Associate; Geo-science Group, Department of Isotope Research, The Weizmann Institute of Science; Rehovot, 76100 Israel
Professional Affiliations
1) American Meteorological Society
2) American Geophysical Union.
3) Israel Physical Society
4) European Geophysical Society
Public Commitments
* Member of the Board of Directors Israel Oceanographic and Limnological Research (1993–96)
* Associate Editor: Israel Journal of Earth Sciences (1990–92)
* Chair of Scientific Steering Committee for Oceanography: IOLR, Haifa (1992–1998)
* Chair of Studies: Institute of Earth Sciences, The Hebrew University, Jerusalem (1994–96)
* Member of the Board of Editors: Ocean Modeling (1999 – Present)
* Associate Editor: Israel Journal of Earth Sciences (1 Jan. 2000 – Present)
* Chairman and Convenor of Environmental Physics sessions; Israel Physical Society 46th and 47th Annual Meetings, IPS2000 and IPS2001.
* Member; Steering Committee of Israel Hydrologic Service: “Lake Kinneret Modeling” 2003-06.
* Chair of Studies: Institute of Earth Sciences, The Hebrew University, Jerusalem (2004–2008)
* Member, National committee of the Israel Academy of Sciences on space-related research in Israel (affiliated with COSPAR). 2005 – 2007.
Prizes, Awards and Fellowships
2001 – Fellow of the Royal Meteorological Society.
1989, 1990, 1997, 1999 – Rector’s citation for excellent teaching; The Hebrew University.
1998 – Senior Associateship: US National Research Council (GSFC/GISS appointment deferred)
1987 – The Royal Society of London/Israel Academy of Sciences Fellowship; Hooke Institute for Atmospheric Physics, University of Oxford.
1986 – M. Richter Young Researchers’ Award; The Hebrew University, Jerusalem.
1984 – The M. Marks Kennedy Fellowship, Weizmann Institute of Science.
Outstanding Public Recognition of my Research
1992 – Study on parting of the Red Sea (publications 23 and 27) discussed in editorials in Science, NY Times, the Britannica 1994 Yearbook of Science and the Future, Public Broadcast Service (PBS), CNN, NBC and hundreds of newspapers and television networks around the world.
Research Grants (recent 5 years)
Paldor, N. and D. Nof. “The stability of intrusion eddies in the South Atlantic”. US-Israel Bi-National Science Foundation. 2007-2011. $106,000
Gavrieli, I. and N. Paldor. “A dynamics limnological model for the Dead Sea: Mixing between two end members with extreme density and compositional differences (the Dead Sea vs. seawater). Israel Science Foundation. 2005-2008. $123,000
Ben-Artzi, M., N. Paldor, K. Domelevo and R. Temam. “Theoretical and numerical studies of Geophysical Fluid Dynamics in general geometries” Arc-En-Ciel (France-Israel Scientific Fund). 2005-2006 (4,600 EU).
Paldor, N. “A high-order theory of linear waves on the rotating Earth”. Israel Science Foundation, 2005-2008. $71,172
Paldor, N. and M. Ben-Artzi, “Analytical and numerical studies of the Shallow Water Model on a Rotating Sphere”. Multi-disciplinary internal fund, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem. 2002-03. $22K.
Paldor, N. and I. Mahrer, “Application of a hybrid model to the reconstruction of pollutant transport in Israel”. Ring Foundation for Environmental Research; The Hebrew U. 2001-2002. $40K.
Ben-Artzi, M., N. Paldor, K. Domelevo and R. Temam. “Numerical Fluid dynamics on a sphere” Arc-En-Ciel (France-Israel Scientific Fund). 1999-2000 (60,000 FF); 2001-2002 (60,000 FF).
Paldor, N. and D. Nof, “Reddies as a means of exporting water from the Red Sea”. US-Israel Binational Science Foundation. 1997–2001. $76,450.
Invited Talks (last five years)
Paldor (2007). On the non-divergent limit of the Shallow Water Equations. International Workshop on Two-Dimensional Turbulence, Lorentz Centre, 19-23 March 2007, Leiden, the Netherlands,.
Paldor (2006). The validity of the nondivergence assumption in 2D vortex dynamics on the rotating earth. IUTAM 2006, 25-30 August 2006, Moscow, Russia
Paldor (2005). A new theory for Planetary waves on the rotating Earth. ISEEQS, 2005 International Conference. 31/May-1/June; Rehovot, Israel
Paldor (2005). A new theory for Planetary Waves. EGS General Assembly, 25-29 April 2005; Vienna Austria
Paldor, N. (2004). A new theoretical estimate for the westward propagation speed of planetary waves. 50th annual meeting of the Israel Physical Society, 9/12/2004, Haifa, Israel.
Paldor, N. and Y. Dvorkin (2003). Barotropic Instability on the rotating Spherical earth. EGS-AGU-EUG General Assembly, 6-11 April 2003; Nice, France.
Paldor, N. (2002). “The application of a hybrid model for reconstructing the trajectories of surface drifters in the ocean”. Lagrangian Analysis and Predictability of Coastal and Ocean Dynamics, 12-16 December 2002, Key Largo, FL, USA.
Paldor, N. (2002). “Linear instability and wave dynamics on a sphere – an angular momentum perspective” The XXVII General Assembly (session NP16 ‘Mathematical Methods of Geophysical Fluid Dynamics’) 21-26 April 2002; Nice, France.
I can pretty much summarize his thoughts on man made global warming:
Algore is full of crap.
VT, I agree with you. I should not have said half die before reaching that age. Having read Max’s post, my point was that not everyone will live to collect the money they contributed to SS over a lifetime of contributions. Suffice it to say – many will not collect for very many years, particularly if they wait until full retirement age to start drawing benefits.
http://engineeringmyfinances.blogspot.com/2007/08/when-will-you-die.html
Posted by: American Way | December 21, 2007 at 01:27 PM
——————————————————————–
AW, the graphs at your link ASSUMES you live to age 65. The graphs show the life expectancy of someone who reaches age 65.
What the graphs do NOT include are all the people that die BEFORE reaching age 65.
Those who live to age 65, can be expected on average to live to age 84.2 if they are a woman, and age 81.33 if they are a man.
But many die BEFORE age 65.
Thus, overall, the average life expectancy in the US is still:
Men 75.2 yearsWomen 80.4 years
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_19.pdf
As a side note, the CDC found the reason why men die sooner then women.
Because we WANT to!
Here you have it, 1 in 6 Americans will die before they can retire at age 65. That’s 16.6% of us.
50 MILLION Americans alive today will die before age 65!
Social Security robs these people blind!
http://www.life-line.org/build/press20070905/index.php?pt=press20070905&m=press&ps=ps
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
AMID IMPROVING LIFE EXPECTANCY RATES, RISK OF PREMATURE DEATH IS STILL SIGNIFICANT FOR AMERICANS, NEW STUDY SHOWS
LIFE Foundation Compares Public Perceptions to Findings from New Study Examining Mortality Risk, During Life Insurance Awareness Month
Arlington, VA – September 4, 2007 – Findings from a new study show that while mortality rates in the United States have decreased since the 1970s, the risk of premature death for those in their typical working years, ages 25-64, is still significant. In fact, there is a greater than 1-in-6 chance for males and a 1-in-9 chance for females of not surviving from age 25 to normal retirement age. These odds are much higher than most Americans perceive. According to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), more than 550,000 Americans ages 25-64 die each year.
“So what does that leave us with, 350 now instead?”
Posted by Nathan
More like zero.
“Either way, the point is that there is not a concensus and that there are many scientists who disagree with the conclusions alarmists like you are trying to scare people with.”
Bunk does not change the credible, peer-reviewed consensus.
While responding to me did you even bother to stop and read the resume my father posted?
“none so blind as those who will not see”
That is going to be my new signature line for you cosmos.
“The poor guy or gal that worked his or her entire life paying $200,000 in FICA for 40 years gets not one dime, if he dies before age 62.”
Life is a gamble enjoy the ride. What about the guy who plays lotto and never wins.It’s a capitalist system you only pay on the first 100k for SS, that’s chump change brother. You must not be playin the game right.
Dear Hank, and Nathan,
WHERE in Dr. Paldor’s resume is his peer-reviewed paper refuting the theory that human added GHG’s cause global warming?
WHERE is his paper showing that the recent warming was caused entirely by “natural” factors?
He did NOT write them… and he is only stating unsupported opinions.
Like,”There’s nothing special about the recent rise!” Paldor told EPW on December 4, 2007.”
Previous natural climate changes do NOT prove that humans are not causing global warming.
“none so blind as those who will not see”
In Nathan’s case, that should be “none so blind as those who will not THINK”.
I’m gonna guess Hank is heavily invested in petro chemicals.
The family has to have SOME sort of stake in luddite fossil fuels.
Embracing fossil fuels is short sighted and bad for America. They gotta be in it for something.
JR,
What does not believing in hysterical cries of the so called concensus on Global Warming have to do with embracing fossil fuels?
I see you are still hard at work on using those logical fallacies as the back bone of your arguments.
There is no reason to oppose addressing global warming.
Not unless one is invested in fossil fuels.
Frankly, it strikes me as un American to NOT want us to get away from fossil fuels. Remaining dependent on them is expensive in blood AND money.
“so called concensus”
When ten men tell ya you’re drunk ya better lay down.
J R,
Nobody is insisting that it is wrong to encourage an decreased consumption of fossil fuels. The argument is that doing so, while good for many other obvious reasons, will not make a bit of difference in regards to the warming of the planet.
“… of the so called concensus on Global Warming…”
Posted by Nathan
There are “none so blind as those who will not THINK”.
‘Climate MYTHS: Many leading scientists question climate change’http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11654
“[decreased consumption of fossil fuels] will not make a bit of difference in regards to the warming of the planet.”
Posted by: rfl
Very FALSE.
Continuing “business as usual” emissions will cause much more warming than sharply cutting emissions.
Nobody is insisting that it is wrong to encourage an decreased consumption of fossil fuels.
I’m glad YOU feel that way rfl.
Where Hank and Nathan are is unclear.
There are three elements that come together for me here.
Is there the SLIGHTEST chance that global warming is happening and that humans are part of it.
For me that is yes.
Is there anything to lose by addressing global warming/carbon emmisions?No.
Will addressing global warming proactively have side benefits?
Yes.
How much am I missing? It’s win win to address global warming and lose/no change if we don’t
Cosmos,
When you post a peer reviewed published paper on scientists who question climate myths I will read it.
That is the only standard you seem to accept, so that is all I will as well.
JR,
Do you believe that Christ is your savior and that you must have faith in him to be saved?
JR,
There is a hufe difference in proactively addressing our energy use and consumption in a logical and well reasoned way and saying that if we don’t act now it will be too late, Global Warming is going to kill us!
Oh THIS could be interesting if I get to finish it before I have to go.
That would be a no Nathan.
JR,
It is called the Argumentum ad populum logical fallacy.
Simply because more people believe something to be true doesn’t make it so.
Either you can argue the issue on it’s merits or you can’t.
Or you can sit around and post as many links as you can, like cosmos, as if it were a popularity contest.
Continuing “business as usual” emissions will cause much more warming than sharply cutting emissions.
-Cosmos
Keep on fencing windmills Cosmos and living in your make believe world where sharp reductions are acheived based upon nothing more than a theoritical model. Or better yet, implement those sharp reductions in your own lifestyle and let us know how it goes.
JR,
Why not?
If you don’t believe in Christ, you will be damned to hell for eternal suffering.
Doesn’t it make sense to believe in Christ because the alternative is so much worse?
That is the same crap logic you are trying to use for why we should address global warming isn’t it?
You know, telling that story made me want to get in touch with Christmas “Chris” Johnson again, so I e-mailed him.
Turns out that he has serious cancer and no health care. But fortunately, his parents moved to Canada years ago, so he’s eligible for treatment there.
Thank Goodness, with free health care, he’s doing much better. I don’t know how many more Christmas’s old Chris would see without socialized medicine . . .
RFL,
If we don’t act now it will be too late, except if we start implementing draconian measures over the course of the next 50 years everything will be fine.
Once you get past the stupidity of actually thinking global warming is man caused and we have to do something, the real idiocy begins in the measures they want to enact.
Actually, Nathan–
The idea that an all-merciful God would condemn humans made fallible by He Himself to eternal torment is about the strongest argument AGAINST the Christian religion.
Any god with that kind of capacity for cruelty is no god of mine.
CapnAmerica,
So do tell, Mr. Sunday School teacher, what it is you believe about Christ as your savior?
As Mark Twain said, what miserable sinner among us could stand to listen to the torments of the damned for a SINGLE day, let alone an ETERNITY.
No . . . the God I worship is a better God than that . . .
I’ll not follow your trail of crumbs off to distraction Nathan.
Should we or should we not be working HARD on alternatives to fossil fuels?
JR,
I have no idea what your mind means by “HARD.”
CapnAmerica,
Do you believe that anyone will go to hell? Who and why?
Will EVERYONE go to heaven? Who and why?
What do you teach your children in Sunday School about that?
Oh how about an Apollo level effort Nathan?
As oil runs out, it would be good for the US to be the world leader in alternative energy no?
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church,the communion of saints,the forgiveness of sins,the resurrection of the body,and life everlasting.
*****
Next question . . .
I haven’t been able to understand this life, Nathan.
I’m not going to speculate too much on the life hereafter.
That’s for God to decide.
As far as what I teach my kids in Sunday School, I teach them the lesson that was prepared that day.
It mirrors the scripture reading and the sermon for that day.
We also color pictures and sing a lot . . .
CapnAmerica,
Are you this vague and non responsive when someone at your church asks you questions like this?
What do you think about what the Bible says on the subject?
I never meant to hear you speculate on the life after.
Usually Christians refer to the Bible on these things.
What about you?
“When you post a peer reviewed published paper on scientists who question climate myths I will read it.”
Posted by Nathan
I already did, at 3:53 PM,
“A study in 2004 looked at the abstracts of nearly 1000 scientific papers containing the term “global climate change” published in the previous decade. Not one rejected the consensus position. One critic promptly claimed this study was wrong – but later quietly withdrew the claim.”
‘The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change’Naomi Oreskeshttp://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/306/5702/1686
Nathan: “Either you can argue the issue on it’s merits or you can’t.”
Nathan argues with bunk from Marc Marano.
Jesus said that the man who even calls another a “fool” is in danger of hell’s fire.
Looks like you and your dad might want to scale-back the rhetoric since you apparently take everything literally.
CapnAmerica,
Since you do seem to be able to quote the Bible and what Jesus was recorded as saying in it, how about this:
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
So what are your thoughts on this verse CapnAmerica?
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”
Planned Parenthood’s Huntsville, AL abortion mill has stopped committing abortions. The drop in revenue might just shut Planned Parenthood down for good there.Keep a good thought.
Cosmos,
I personally argue with reason and logic.
I can also reference sources which disagree with the so called concnesus on Global warming.
Are you able to have a logical and well reasoned discussion or just post links?
“Nathan” proclaims:
“I personally argue with reason and logic.”
And reason and logic always defeat you.
“I can also reference sources which disagree with the so called concnesus on Global warming.”
Posted by Nathan
Uh huh… Sen Inhofe’s “report”, Steven Milloy, etc. Those are just opinions, spin, claims taken out-of-context, and other deceptions.
What Nathan cannot do is “reference” credible, peer-reviewed science that refutes human-added GHG’s causing global warming.And Nathan cannot “reference” credible science that explains the recent warming, without including the human-added factors.
This sums up the situation very well.
‘Inhofe’s latest windmillMore bogus climate skepticism’http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/12/21/112933/48
“Finally, you often hear skeptics make the argument that, “science doesn’t work through consensus,” and “consensus doesn’t prove anything,” etc. That argument rings hollow, however, when you consider the amount of effort Inhofe and Co. are going through to try to disprove the existence of the strong consensus. Clearly, the scientific consensus is crucially important.”
Hank,Had things to do yesterday, so never got back at ya ’bout rushter.
I have no doubt intelligent people listen to rush, however, I suggest there is little correlation between intelligence and common sense.
But let’s take a look at rush, and his liberal life:
Married and divorced how many times? Darn, I thought republicans were so religious, they would sacrifice anything to keep those marriage vows they took. Seems his word doesn’t count in real life, what? Man, I thought it was only those despicable liberals who thought that.
Addicted to drugs, anyone? How about preaching how evil those despicable liberal drug addicts were, while poppin’ them pain pills, wink, wink. Shucks, ain’t that something only them same despicable liberals do?
He’s a freakin’ liberal, masquerading as a neo-con ultra right-wing talk show host. Show him the money!!!
The drop in revenue might just shut Planned Parenthood down for good there.
So you prefer unplanned parenthood? I thought that was the trouble.
Cosmos,
You have basically said that the only sources you will ever think are credible are those which are part of the “so called” consensus.
So when you sit here saying I will never show you a credible source you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Nathan,
All of the credible peer-reviewed climate science DOES show that human-added GHGs are causing a major part of the recent warming.
That’s just reality, not something that I’m doing.
Nathan?
If we (cosmos, me, MOST scientists, most Presidential candidates of BOTH parties, etc) are wrong about global warming what is to lose?
If you and a handful of scientists are wrong what is to lose?
Balance that equation for me.
‘More on the ’scientific’ attacks on global warmingNYT’s Revkin gives Inhofe a pass’http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/12/21/16436/710” “Padded” would be an extremely generous description of this list of “prominent scientists.” ”
More at link — economists, TV weathermen, an inventor, etc.
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
I don’t know what that means exactly.
First of all, Jesus and The Father are one and the same, indivisible. As the Nicene Creed says,
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father . . .
So, how can one go through the Son to the Father, when they are indivisible. Also, if one takes this literally as you fundamentalists do, it leads to some really wacky conclusions–it would mean that Abraham, Moses, Joshua and all the Old Testament prophets, not knowing Christ, would be consigned to a lake of fire for all eternity.
That doesn’t make sense.
Also, if a little child who can’t understand language yet dies, he or she can’t have accepted Christ as their personal savior, so again, hell for all eternity. Yet Jesus said that one must BECOME like a child to enter the kingdom of heaven.
So it’s not at all clear what that Jesus meant by that line. Perhaps he meant that “no one comes to the Father except through Me” = one can most easily understand God consciousness by listening to Jesus’s teachings.
I know what you think it means, and I can’t accept it, for the above reasons.
CapnAmerica,
For someone who claims to be a Christian Sunday school teacher you are making some of the most absurd conclusions about what “fundamentalists” think about the Bible.
You make arguments which I expect to see from the ignorant Atheist type of person.
Of course they don’t make sense. Not even “fundamentalist” make the crap arguments you are here.
You still never answered my basic questions:
1. Will EVERYONE go to heaven, Yes or No and why?
2. Will ANYONE go to hell, Yes or No and why?
Seriously, those should be some of the easiest questions for a Sunday school teacher to answer.
Yet you choose to mealy mouth around answering them.
Too bad I’ll never get to meet your God Nathan.
I have SO many questions and critiques for him.
He is the father of everyone yes?
I’m a dad.
In my son, I am more than often NOT well pleased.
Still? I’d not renounce him to hellfire and damnation for all eternity because he does not do what I do and say what I tell him to.
JR,
God doesn’t renounce people to hell simply for our disobedience.
He offers you eternal life and all you must do is believe (have faith) in Him.
When you choose to reject God that is your doing, not His.
The way I read it (John 3:16) and other places, it is quite clear. The writers of the Bible do not get mushy on this. They say there is only one way to Heaven.As I’ve said many times, I’m not a Christian, but if I was, I would have to believe that.
It only makes sense. Otherwise, what’s the point of Jesus being born, virgin mother, sinless, dieing on the cross for our sins, resurrecting and all that.He didn’t die so everyone could go to Heaven. Only those who believed in Him. Of course, this means Jews, Muslims and everybody else does not get to the Kingdom.I don’t have a dog in this fight, but that is what the Scripture says, period.
Nathan will agree, right?
Fleetwood,
Basically, yes, you are right.
It’s Ron Paul or bust for me.
If the Republican party is too weak or beholden to business to support him than I will take my vote and find a real American or not vote at all.
For someone who claims to be a Christian Sunday school teacher you are making some of the most absurd conclusions about what “fundamentalists” think about the Bible.
*** No evidence to show how I am in error of what fundamentalists think. ***
You make arguments which I expect to see from the ignorant Atheist type of person.
*** Pure ad homenim, no evidence whatsoever about what is atheistic or ignorant. ***
Of course they [the arguments I ascribe to fundamentalists] don’t make sense. Not even “fundamentalist” make the crap arguments you are here.
*** Again, no real refutation, just more statements without proof. ***
THEN, Nathan contradicts himself by agreeing with Fleetwood that “Jesus didn’t die so everyone could go to Heaven. Only those who believed in Him. Of course, this means Jews, Muslims and everybody else does not get to the Kingdom.”
That’s exactly what I said you believed, and I told you why I couldn’t believe that. I don’t believe that a merciful, omniscient, omnipotent God will condemn Elie Weisel and the Dali Lama and Ghandi and Moses and “the Good Samaritan” and a three-day-old baby to eternal fire and damnation because they didn’t or couldn’t profess that Christ as their personal savior.
It’s not consistent.
By the way, the only person who was assured of a heavenly reward that I can find in The New Testament was the criminal hanging beside Christ at the Cruxifiction:
42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
43Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”
I don’t see this criminal as really proclaim Christ as his personal savior . . . he doesn’t even seem to acknowledge that Jesus IS the Messiah. He just says that Jesus is blameless.
Deciding who will go where after death is playing God . . . I’ll have no part in that.
CapnAmerica,
Why are you so scared to answer my questions?
Do you hide in the broom closet from the children you teach at Sunday School when they ask you such simple questions?
Even fleetwood, who is not a Christian, seems to know more about Christianity than you do.
Heh that brings back memories.
When I was about 7 my folks sent me and my brother to Sunday school. That lasted about 6 weeks.
I asked questions like “Where did Cains wife come from?” and “Where did God come from?” and “Why would God want to confound peoples language so they couldn’t understand each other?” and “The Jews are Gods chosen people because Abraham was willing to kill his own son?”
They shortly asked my folks to either keep me quiet or keep me home.
JR,
If you were to come to my church those questions would be easily and happily answered.
If you were truly interested in the answers now, I am more than willing to answer your questions.
Unlike Chas and CapnAmerica, I don’t hide from questions about my faith and Christianity.
That is not what Jesus would do nor would he want his followers to do either.
JR I’m sorry they were sending you to such a close minded church. My youngest son asked all of those questions and more. His first word was “Why” the second was “not”.
He is 37 and still asking questions. His 10 year old daughter is a chip off the old block and is always asking why. I guess he got better answers because he is still a Christian and is raising his kids in that faith.
Nathan has a good plan. Set down on a one on one and get some questions answered.
Yes, trust the courts at your own risk. It’s the judges little kingdom, and you have no more say about it than what the honest or dishonest judge gives you. Or course you have recourse, but it will cost you. They know it, that’s why they get away with it. Of course there are other options, and if the judges keep these games up, they might have a few of those options applied to them.
Billy Graham says that non-Christians can go to heaven.
Nathan knows more than Billy Graham does . . .
CapnAmerica,
Where on earth would you get that idea from?
I suppose you have some quote you have taken out of context and decided to completely ignore everything else Bill Graham has said on the subject?
I see you are still hiding in the broom closet.
Why do you hide from questions about your faith?
Go ahead Nathan.
Answer my questions.
I apologize not getting back to you sooner. This is yesterdays thread.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51461
In a profile of Graham in the current issue of Newsweek, managing editor Jon Meacham asks the 87-year-old evangelist whether those who belong to religions that reject Christ as savior (Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.) and secularists will be saved.
“Those are decisions only the Lord will make,” Graham replied. “It would be foolish for me to speculate on who will be there [in heaven] and who won’t. … I don’t want to speculate about that.”
In the Newsweek profile, Graham explains his new thinking thus: “I believe the love of God is absolute. He said He gave His Son for the whole world, and I think He loves everybody regardless of what label they have.”
You can go to his website and clearly see that salvation is based on your faith in Christ.
http://www.billygraham.org/
CapnAmerica,
Are you going to answer my questions?
Why not?
In Capn’s linked article, the conclusion:
“How much clearer can it be?
Well, even more important is the testimony of one other “radical” … Jesus Himself, who declared unequivocally: “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” (John 14:6)”
I see you are otherwise engaged Nathan.
It’s my bad not letting you answer my questions earlier.
Another time maybe.
Yeah, that’s the problem, JR. He SAYS he will answer questions, but then when you put a direct question to him like how can Moses go to heaven when he never met and accepted Jesus during his life, Nathan just feints and dodges with some rhetoric about the “old and new covenant” and “what does YOUR CHURCH say?”
My church doesn’t talk about it because we all believe that Moses and the prophets are in heaven.
We’re not literalists. We believe that “the letter of the law killeth but the spirit giveth life.” We believe in the SPIRIT of the New Testament, which is love and salvation, not judgement and damnation.
Or maybe “kansas” would like to answer the questions I asked as a 7 year old 30 some years ago?
CapnAmerica,
Saying that God’s love is absolute or that God loves everyone regardless of what label they have says nothing about their salvation.
I believe those things, I also believe that you must have faith in Christ to be saved.
Once again, Mr Sunday School teacher, will EVERYONE go to heaven? Why or why not?
Will ANYONE go to hell, why or why not?
If Billy Graham won’t consign the Jews and Muslims and Hindus to hell-fire, I’m not going to do it either.
CapnAmerica,
I must have missed this question JR has. I have no problem answering any of his questions.
What is your excuse?
The Old and New Covenant is not rhetoric.
I also believe that Moses is in heaven.
I also believe in Love and Salvation as well.
You are still dodging the issue.
All you keep trying to do is mischaracterize me and my faith instead of answering the questions.
I saw the questions J R and they were all explained to me. At the age of 7, I seriously doubt you asked those questions.
Most seven year olds couldn’t remember the name of anyone in the Bible, lest ask questions about it.
But it was a nice story to try and (cough) around.
I afforded you another time to answer Nathan.
It appears you have an ally in “kansas”.
I am a good person Nathan. Because I doubt the writings of 2,000 years ago I have to suffer for all eternity?
CapnAmerica,
I am not asking you to consign someone to hell.
I am asking you if you think ANYONE will go to hell? Why or why not?
Will EVERYONE go to heaven, why or why not?
The questions don’t get much easier than that.
Why are you so scared to answer them?
JR,
By whose standards are you a good person?
No one is ever good enough or perfect enough to obtain salvation on their own.
Salvation is given to those who choose to have faith in Christ.
Your choose to reject God and his salvation.
That is your choice. That is why you will suffer for all of eternity.
CapnAmerica,
Do you not believe that our relationship with God changed after the death of Chirst?
Do you still sacrifce animals in the temple to atone for your sin?
So why do you mock the explanation of the Old and New Covenant?
CapnAmerica,
I must have missed this question JR has. I have no problem answering any of his questions.
HUH?
I already twice apologized to you Nathan for not getting back you your promised answers.
I asked questions like “Where did Cains wife come from?” and “Where did God come from?” and “Why would God want to confound peoples language so they couldn’t understand each other?” and “The Jews are Gods chosen people because Abraham was willing to kill his own son?”
They shortly asked my folks to either keep me quiet or keep me home.
Posted by: J R | December 22, 2007 at 01:45 PM
JR,
If you were to come to my church those questions would be easily and happily answered.
If you were truly interested in the answers now, I am more than willing to answer your questions.
What part of “I don’t know” do you have such a hard time with?
I don’t even know what heaven and hell are. Heaven could be “with God” and hell “without God.” The mind of God is ineffable, unknowable. You make yourself like God when you claim to know things that are unknowable. That’s the worst kind of sin–arrogant pride.
Do you not believe that our relationship with God changed after the death of Chirst?
Do you still sacrifce animals in the temple to atone for your sin?
So why do you mock the explanation of the Old and New Covenant?
*****
I mock it because it’s a cop-out.
What changed was human understanding of the nature of God. That unfolding still continues. It didn’t stop 2000 years ago . . .
Nathan I think you are confused.
And “kansas” has deserted you.
JR,
You just barely asked me to answer those questions 20 minutes ago. Then CapnAmerica jumps on me as if I am avoiding them.
Sorry for the confusion. I thought you had some other question besides those I missed.
I am curious though, why do you seek the answers to those questions now?
I have talked to you in the past, and your attitude towards Christianity has been one of disdain.
That is why I asked earlier if you were truly interested in the answers or not anymore.
CapnAmerica,
So why don’t you sacrifce animals in your temple anymore to atone for sin?
CapnAmerica,
If you don’t know anything about whether or not ANYONE will go to hell or EVERYONE will go to heaven how can you then turn around and say you know Moses is in heaven?
Nathan I asked you those questions many hours ago.
I apologized for not getting back to you. I even invited “kansas” to answer.
JR,
You didn’t ask me those questions hours ago.
You stated that you had asked those questions hours ago, I then asked if you were still interested in having them answered and you barely said yes 20 minutes ago.
CapnAmerica,
So you can’t answer any questions about salvation.
So why do you believe in Christ?
What was the purpose of God sending Jesus to die on the cross for our sins?
Point taken Nathan.
I did afford you the space to deal with another poster.
I also invited another to answer.
It’s not consistent to say that one has to believe in Christ to go to heaven and say that Moses is in heaven too.
There’s a huge logical paradox there. And you refuse to acknowledge it because you CAN’T reconcile it.
The Old vs. New Covenant rhetoric just says the same thing–”well, there was this old religion that was good for its time, but it was supplanted by the true religion for all time, Christianity.” It’s question begging: Moses is in heaven even though he didn’t know Christ because he’s in heaven.
The Old – New Covenant argument explains nothing. Didn’t Christ say, “before Abraham was, I am?” yes, and they tried to stone him for it.
Obviously, one could and can go to heaven without accepting Christ IF one lives a life of God-consciousness and abides by the spirit of what is right, “for those who aren’t against us are with us . . . “
I also believe that Moses is in heaven.
Posted by: Nathan | December 22, 2007 at 11:38 PM
YOU said Moses is in heaven, I don’t believe I did.
However, if he’s not, then I don’t deserve to be.
You are into deeper stuff with Capn just now Nathan.
He shares your faith.
Don’t forget that I afforded “kansas” the opportunity to get your back and answer my questions and then he bailed.
I’ll get back to you since I respect you.
Hey “kansasJM” are ya out there?
You often whine on how you are bullied.
Why did you ditch Nathan?
I already got out of the way for Nathan and Capn to debate. Where are you?
JR,
I am not convinced CapnAmerica shares my faith at all.
In fact, the parable of the vineyard says as much: “if the workers don’t respect the master’s messangers (the prophets), they will have to respect his son (Christ).”
So the message of the prophets and the message of Christ is the same. One can understand God’s message through the prophets or through the Christ, “for I have come not to abolish [the old] law, but to FUFILL IT.”
CapnAmerica,
This is what you said earlier:
“My church doesn’t talk about it because we all believe that Moses and the prophets are in heaven.”
So how can you on one hand claim to know they are in heaven and then claim ignorance on knowing anything about requirements for salvation?
So once again:
Will EVERYONE go to heaven?
Or more specifically:
If someone rejects God, rejects Jesus, never repents of their sin and never choose to have faith in Christ, will they go to heaven?
“I saw the questions J R and they were all explained to me. At the age of 7, I seriously doubt you asked those questions.
Most seven year olds couldn’t remember the name of anyone in the Bible, lest ask questions about it.
But it was a nice story to try and (cough) around.
Posted by: Kansas | December 22, 2007 at 11:38 PM”
And then “kansas” after calling me a liar quit the field to leave Nathan to fight a battle he took up.
CapnAmerica,
Wow! So you do use the Bible after all.
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
CapnAmerica,
You obviously understand that our relationship with God has changed after Christs death or you would be sacrificing animals to atone for your sin.
You don’t do that anymore do you?
Whether you want to call it the Old and New Covenant or not, you still are under a different relationship with God than Moses was or any of the Old Testament prophets.
You do agree with that don’t you?
Cain’s wife:
The Bible history during that time doesn’t bring up the genealogies of women, only men.
Before Cain was born, God commanded man to go forth and multiply.
Evidently man had multiplied before Cain was born, but only Cain and Able are mentioned in the Bible story as sons of Adam and Eve.
It is often thought that “man” before the ejection from Eden was not restricted to the gene problems that causes the problem with closely related humans breeding.
Evidently, those in the land of “Nod” may not have been of similar genetics to Cain or they could have been. Since the genealogy of women were not given, we don’t really know who the parents of Cain’s wife was.
No, the man who lives an evil life and willfully divorces himself from the good will not go to heaven.
At least, not right away.
The man who doesn’t really learn about Christ or who is born into culture that is cut off from Christianity and so can’t ever make a choice, I think that man CAN go to heaven if he believes in the goodness inherent in the message of Christ.
That’s why I agree with you that Moses is in heaven.
Cap up waiting for a call from a stranded grandson and saw the dialogue going on. I too questioned the same things being discussed here. Because I am very certain Moses and the other prophets are in Heaven as we speak. A very wise man someone I look up to explained it to me in this way.
Before Christ there was a covenant of laws. When we were created before the fall of Adam and Eve there was a very strict order for mankind and God oversaw this exactly as they were created. Then because God gave man freewill and the first sin was committed a new plan was devised. Maybe God realized that humans by their very nature weren’t able to follow to the letter the laws as laid out. This was prophesised back in Isaiah and told of the coming of a savior. The word was fulfilled in Jesus. When that happened the temple curtain was torn and man was then able to approach God and talk to him one on one. The death of Jesus Christ gave us that freedom. From that point the ‘only way to the Father was through the Son’.
Whether this is accurate it is what I believe. I don’t know who I will meet in Heaven. I will be surprised by some that are there and wonder why others aren’t. But I know for certain that I will be there. The scripture tells me I can be sure of that. It isn’t arrogant to believe this. It is the basis for my whole belief system.
JMOHO
Well, Im off to bed.
I still find it ironic that even the non-Christian Fleetwood seems to have a better grasp on Christianity than you do CapnAmerica.
What a sad sorry convoluted state of affairs you liberals have turned Christianity into when you can’t even answer a question about salvation.
You demean and dismiss and say a rude goodnight to a fellow Christian Nathan.
Little wonder you treat me worse.
Yes, Nathan, we’re not as arrogant as you are. We don’t have the satisfaction of knowing that we are God’s true children and everyone else (hahaha!) will be burning in hell fire for ever while we’re square dancing with the angels.
You have your reward right here on earth, moral certitude and smug superiority.
Good luck on the heavenly reward though . . .
Guys stop the baiting. My grandson just called. He been flying since early this morning. Leaving Des Moines. Supposed to connect through Dallas/Ft Worth – high winds shut the airport there and he was routed to Denver. Finally in a hotel room and due to fly in tomorrow at 6pm.
Bury the hatchet. Religion is a very personal thing. Not something to argue over especially you JR because you profess no faith. Cap I really don’t know you so can’t decide but know we are all better than we show on this blog.
Yeah well Nathan is also the child of money and the sure and certain knowledge that God ordains it so.
I don’t give a crap about any Heavenly reward. Send me my blessing while I am alive. Ya know? So I can share them with the living and hurting?
Oh and I do get blessings. And from the liberal bent of Christians.
Where did God come from?
It’s important to understand that God is an eternal being – no beginning and no ending. He exists without the constraints of time or physical boundaries.
God answered when he was Moses afraid of the voice from the “burning bush” of His name. God replied:
“Moreover he said, I [am] the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.”
“Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you’” (Exodus 3:14)
Christians tie the following verse to demonstrate the Trinity (Father,Son, Holy spirit)
John 8:58″I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
Yeah “kansas” what chapter and verse promted you to threaten to shoot at bad drivers on Kellogg or kill me?
Religious hatred among Christians goes back a long way, JR.
When the early Luthernians who had been martyred by Roman Catholics encountered even more radical protestants like the Mennonites, their response was to do unto them as they had been done unto.
When you have the “truth” like Nathan has the “truth,” then you are duty bound to force that truth down someone else’s throat by any means necessary. It’s quite logical to torture someone even to death until they accept Christ rather than let them die “a sinner” and burn for all eternity in hell.
Only people who are absolutely sure of the rightness of their cause (like Nathan) are capable of such horrible atrocities.
A big stumbling-block for many centuries has been between churches that practise child baptism and those that have “believer’s” or adult baptism. Not only that, but HOW baptism is performed (dunking or sprinkling) has caused many a church to split into two.
The ordination of women–another church splitter. And the latest row–the gay priest or pastor. The Episcopelians have been torn asunder by that one.
Once believes fossilize into dogma, you’ve got a heck of a mess on your hands. You can’t have an open mind if you have all the answers.
The confusion of language.
Theologians state that God confused the language (originally the language of Adam) because he was angered with the humans.
From Genesis:
1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
In short God confused the language because they had challenged ascension to God by means not proscribed by God and they were punished.
Yeah “kansas” what chapter and verse promted you to threaten to shoot at bad drivers on Kellogg or kill me?
Posted by: J R | December 23, 2007 at 12:50 AM
Okay J R,
We’re done.
I was hopeful you would engage in thoughtful discussion.
I was wrong.
I tried to provide answers to your questions.
Tara already scolded you for your ridiculous response to what I wrote about “shooting out tires.” It was an expression, not a threat.
But J R,
Do have a nice Holiday.
I tried to be reasonable, but it appears you will have none of it and wish to be spiteful and filled with hate.
cya
Hope your son gets in safe KSgrm and have a great Holiday. :)
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071222/NEWS09/712220325/1001/NEWS
December 22, 2007
Edwards says he’ll battle any efforts to smear him
By TONY LEYSREGISTER STAFF WRITER
John Edwards warned Friday that if Republicans try to smear him the way they did the Democrats’ last presidential nominee, he’ll make them regret it.
“I will fight back with every fiber of my being,” he told hundreds of cheering Iowans at a West Des Moines rally. “If they come after us, we have to go back harder than they came at us.”
The former North Carolina senator was responding to a question from an audience member who raised the specter that whoever wins the Democratic nomination could be “swift-boated” by Republican opponents. The man noted that the term refers to tactics used against the Democrats’ 2004 nominee, John Kerry, whose record of heroism on Navy swift boats was besmirched in ads sponsored by an independent group.
*****
Finally, a Democratic candidate who “gets it.”
Well a long day and this is my last.
It has been my preference lately to stay away from discussions as to religion.
I’m not religious, and since I see some good in religion, I try anymore to leave it alone unless it is raised in other issues.
Unrepentant sinner I am, no doubt I often fail.
Maybe the take of an outsider looking in?
I think Christianity corrupted and the Republican party are the perfect marriage.
If you are suffering? Well you aint right with God.
If you are in comfort? Well you are right with God and divinely vindicated.
I don’t want to deny or make cynical anyone their faith. I’m glad for anyone that finds comfort even if it is illusory to me.
But geez don’t use that. Don’t elevate yourself over me because I don’t see what you see or know what you know.
People have helped me. I help back where I can. I’d like to think that is enough.
I’m younger than most here. Also less wealthy or educated or accomplished let alone religious.
In short, I am the voice for those distanced or without a voice for whatever reason in a society where half the population is too otherwise occupied to have time to care.
In short, I am the voice for those distanced or without a voice for whatever reason in a society where half the population is too otherwise occupied to have time to care.
Posted by: J R | December 23, 2007 at 01:26 AM
—-
That’s good for a giggle, I tell you what!
Got anymore than a shot there GMC?
You are going to have to show relevance.
CapnAmerica,
You are nothing but the worst kind of Hypocrite.
On one hand you mock me because I profess my faith and Christ and believe him to be the key to Salvation and point out that you claim little more than ignorance on the subject.
Then you turn around and accuse me of being capable of torture and other horrible things.
You make up lies about me and what I believe and what I am capable of instead of answering even the most simple questions about Christianity.
So tell me what your thoughts on telling lies are?
Do you believe that is acceptable too?
You just got done saying that you think someone who willfully divorces themselves from God will not go to heaven.
So how am I any more arrogant than you are CapnAmerica?
You are the biggest of Hypocrites here.
You and Chas both.
JR,
Once again you pretend to know something about me.
Please explain how I am a child of money?
I’ve been to your “hood” remember Nathan?
JR,
Once again, please explain to me how that makes me a child of money?
You were invited to our home as a guest and we did our best to treat you well.
Instead you choose to mock my family for the hard work they have done to achieve what they have.
My parents were hardly handed what they have.
My mother worked her ass off as a waitress and doing several other jobs to pay her own way through half a dozen degrees and a Doctorate.
She earned and continues to earn every single dime she has and so does my father who proudly served 22 years in the Navy.
Well too bad you forgot where you “came from” then Nathan.
I’ll stand by what I said that you are late bringing me back to.
JR,
Forgot where I came from?
Poverty seems to be a state of mind for you.
Instead of doing something to better yourself and provide for your son you mock those who do and act like the world owes you something.
Oh and by the way Nathan?
I was not mocking you or your family.
Another poster made a comment as to you and I added my take.
It was you was fast and ready with the shots in that last night debate.
That said, My 12:46 post after your 12:26 post where you said you were going to bed was not entirely fair. I do TRY and not talk about others who are not “around”. Still, the comment was speculative on your judgement on others and their faith.
Got anymore than a shot there GMC?
You are going to have to show relevance.
Posted by: J R | December 23, 2007 at 11:45 AM
—
What you’re writing about doesn’t really matter, JR. It’s always the same.
A smug,self-satisfied illusion of importance.
And now you claim to be the ‘voice of the downtrodden.’ LMAO! Who are you kidding, JR? You’re the voice of yourself. Period. Claiming otherwise just inflates your already supersized ego.
“Relevance?”I’m not going to get into a pointless debate about religion. Why some feel the need to “prove” others’ religion wrong – why we feel the need to be dogmatic about this or that point – is beyond me. I won’t play that game.
already supersized ego.
Project often and as needed there GMC. If you didn’t you’d probably detonate in a cloud of hot air.
You stepped into a stale debate to take a one line shot at me. I just called you on it. There’s an end to it. I got better things to do.
When a person talks to God, they’re praying.When God talks to a person, they’re schizophrenic.
Did anyone ever consider that Moses may have been schizophrenic?
If he was here today, saying the things he said, then he’d be diagnosed as delusional.
Mary,
Except for the fact that Moses performed Miracles in the name of God.
He simply didn’t claim to have heard God talk to him, there was ample evidence to the fact he was speaking with God.