Open thread 12/05

Thread

78 Comments

  1. Posted December 5, 2007 at 1:20 am | Permalink

    For those interested in such things, might want to check this out >>>>

    The book, Darwin’s Gift to Science and Religion by Francisco Ayala, “offers a way to reconcile religion and science on the issue of evolution,” according to the starred review it received in Publishers Weekly. Additionally, John F. Haught, Distinguished Research Professor, Department of Theology, Georgetown University, has said: “Francisco Ayala’s scientific expertise, the clarity of his philosophically trained mind, his deep understanding of religion, and his gifts as a teacher – all of these qualities, along with his profound understanding of evolution, render his own writings a ‘gift to science and religion.’” You can read more about the book at: http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11732#description.

  2. Posted December 5, 2007 at 3:14 am | Permalink

    Yah, that’s right, gudamit. There aint no beetter wayfer us smart people of tenor to make our points than whut you’d said. So keep up the good work, fer the smart wuns umungus. Allo’which reminds me — who gives a flyin’ ratzass about an old dead white dude like Darwin.

    prob’ly a damned slave owner.

    Fruckim.

  3. Snuffy Smith
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    Even after a Globe story in December 2006 highlighted Romney’s use of a landscaping company that employs illegal immigrants to tend to his grounds, Romney continued to employ Community Lawn Service With a Heart – until yesterday.http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/12/05/more_immigrant_woes_for_romney/

    Typical politician…say one thing and do another. Republicans like to sound tough on immigration just as long as we’re not talking about their nannies or gardeners.

  4. anonymous poster
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    A recent headline from the New York Times:

    “US Teens Lag Behind in Science and Math”

  5. Posted December 5, 2007 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    A recent headline from the New York Times:

    “US Teens Lag Behind in Science and Math”

    Posted by: anonymous poster | December 05, 2007 at 08:05 AM

    They’ve been saying that since the 70s and it hasn’t made too much of a difference.

    I don’t think the U.S. is lagging behind as much as the World has caught up.

  6. Ain't that the truth
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    If kids today spent as much time studying math and science as they do playing their XBox and Nitendo games – we’d have the worlds brightest youngsters!

  7. Ain't that the truth
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    If kids today spent as much time studying math and science as they do playing their XBox and Nitendo games – we’d have the worlds brightest youngsters!

  8. The Phantom
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    Heard the other day someone was proposing using the landfill as a place to ski. That didn’t sound like too bad an idea. But, I’d like to see it as a place where Wichitan could use for dirt bikes, four wheelers, maybe even an off road for 4 wheel vehicles.

  9. Mary Caruso
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    “Show me the survival rates, all around the world, from the date of diagnosis for:

    lung cancerheart attackdiabeteskidney dialysis

    America is at the top, for how long you can expect to live, if diagnosed with a serious problem.”

    Econ101

    America is also at the top for these diagnosis….our lifestyle will be the death of us, doesn’t matter how good the healthcare is, it does no good at all if we don’t change the way we live. Maybe we can live longer, but there is no quality of life when you have smoked all your life and you have to be tethered to an O2 tank and can’t walk across a room or you weigh 300 lbs and have to use the electric shopping cart at Walmart because you don’t have the endurance to walk down an aisle.Nothing matters if we don’t take care of ourselves…even if we have the best healthcare in the world.America needs affordable, basic healthcare for everyone, no matter what you’re financial status is. Healthcare right now is only for the very poor, the very old, or the very rich…there are too many who don’t fit into those catagories..somethings got to give…soon. And there’s something wrong with the system when many can’t afford to get healthcare and yet drug and insurance companies are making billons in profits.

  10. sursum
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    Nope Kansas,the US IS lagging behind in math, science and reading.

  11. Posted December 5, 2007 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    Nope Kansas,the US IS lagging behind in math, science and reading.

    Posted by: sursum | December 05, 2007 at 08:53 AM

    Show me stats. Then show me the same countries and how backwards they were pre-WWII.

    The rest of the world is catching up in technology and education. They are coming out of the middle age thinking.

    There is more “World” than the U.S., so I find the argument without merit.

    The migration of Scientists is done now more than ever and the acceptance of foreign Physicians is more common. I expect that has more to do with demand that academic standards.

    Show me a list of science/technology based Universities that has shut down because of low math/science scores.

    The apparent technology and scientific discover hasn’t slowed down in the U.S. There is so much newsworthy achievements in the U.S. that is common news these days.

    Forty years ago, a discovery today in the U.S. would have reached front page news. Today, it is obscured in some obscured journal as the amount of scientific discovery has exploded in the U.S.

  12. Mary Caruso
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    Blame the TV also…kids spend so much time with all this passive entertainment that doesn’t do a thing to challenge their minds…they need to be bulding rocketships out of refrigerator boxes and spending time outside just playing with other kids. I feel so sorry for kids today..growing up in this culture of fear and unable to just do the “kid things” that we had the opportunity to do when we were growing up. No wonder so many have ADHD and are on medication.

  13. Mary Caruso
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    Kansas..compare the percentages of engineering students in the USA to the number in China and India. Too many American kids today are not seeking the technical degrees that we need to compete in the world market.

  14. Posted December 5, 2007 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Kansas..compare the percentages of engineering students in the USA to the number in China and India. Too many American kids today are not seeking the technical degrees that we need to compete in the world market.

    Posted by: Mary Caruso | December 05, 2007 at 09:09 AM

    I was hoping those who make the claims would provide me with the statistics not the other way around. :)

    I tend not to do the footwork for others making a claim, then providing nothing to back it up.

  15. Solomon
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Eagle Beak, excellent link.

  16. Posted December 5, 2007 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    America is at the top, for how long you can expect to live, if diagnosed with a serious problem.”

    But top almost everyone in rate of diagnosed cases?

  17. Posted December 5, 2007 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    p.s. And if that is the not the case, why do people in other industrialized countries have longer life spans?

  18. Posted December 5, 2007 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    In the Positive Spirit of American Way:

    Wow! Great Economic News!

    Productivity up at an annual rate of 6.3% in the 3rd Quarter. 189,000 new jobs!

    Oil down 10% in the last 2 weeks back under $90/barrel!

    http://www.marketwatch.com/

    Data firm up bulls’ footing
    Economic reports show the strongest U.S. productivity gains in four years and private-sector hiring expanding at a quickened pace.U.S. ECONOMY
    Productivity ramps up

    Fast growth in the third quarter filters through to produce the strongest productivity gains in the U.S. in four years.

    • Private-sector jobs up 189,000 in November, ADP says—–
    The Lib Children on the Blog still play “Capt May I.” They won’t make a move unless CapnAmerica tells them what to do by email. :D

  19. Posted December 5, 2007 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    Dear Weblog Editors–

    Thank you for providing this forum that keeps Kansas entranced hour upon long hour.

    Anything that keeps people like him in their house all day and off the street and out of decent society is a real service to our community.

    “Bedsitter people lie back and lament,

    Another day, uselessly spent.”

  20. Solomon
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    The Lib Children on the Blog still play “Capt May I.” They won’t make a move unless CapnAmerica tells them what to do by email. :D

    Posted by: Kansas | December 05, 2007 at 09:49 AM

    The subject was getting interesting untill the partisian showed up. Kansas, it’s too bad you couldn’t contribute anything to the subject besides partisian vitrol.

  21. American Way
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    Private-sector jobs up 189,000 in November, ADP saysPosted by: Max

    Yep Max, things are booming.

    Majority of Americans Satisfied With Their Healthcare Plans

    Despite ever-increasing healthcare costs and widespread dissatisfaction with the U.S. healthcare system, a majority of Americans remain satisfied with what they pay for their own healthcare, the quality of the healthcare they receive, and their healthcare coverage. Gallup

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/102934/Majority-Americans-Satisfied-Their-Own-Healthcare.aspx

    Despite the pesky negative remarks by liberals about loss of jobs and slow salary growth, U.S. Workers Remain Largely Satisfied With Their Jobs according to Gallup.

    And despite the mixed reports on Black Friday, Americans say they will spend MORE this Christmas than last year $866 dollars – a record high. And as thedomestic market is highly dependent upon Americans spending, this is truly
    great news.

    http://www.gallup.com/video/102841/Americans-Set-Spend.aspx

    Even the stupid people with subprime loans are coming around.

    God Bless our American President!

    Happy Fingers (typing)

  22. Posted December 5, 2007 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    AmWay–

    Didn’t you write in the Boyda thread that we should throw ALL the politicians out?

    God Bless the American President who’s NOT Bush

  23. American Way
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Capn may I respond? (checking email, click send/receive).

    Are you getting lot’s of sunlite? We don’t want a grumpy Capn for the holidays do we?

    Anyway, no I didn’t say what you posted. No apparent contradiction herein.

    President Bush’s name will grace schools, boulevards, and parks and his image will shine forth from Statues built from sea to shining sea!

    Be happy and thankful Capn! We have much to celebrate this cominga holiday as we were thankful this past Thanksgiving!

    Put on a happy :-)

  24. annie moose
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    From Rueters,

    “While the market typically discounts the ADP report, a number this far out of the cloud could cause economists to revise their expectations for Friday,” said Brian Dolan, chief currency strategist, at Forex.com in Bedminster, New Jersey. “We will also now have to keep an eye on the Fed funds futures markets go see if they price in a reduced expectations of a rate cut next week,” he added.

    If you think this is real, a good time to buy home builders and financials time to put your money where your mouth is happy people.

  25. Posted December 5, 2007 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    “American Way” opined:

    “President Bush’s name will grace schools, boulevards, and parks and his image will shine forth from Statues built from sea to shining sea!”

    Say hello to Bizarro Lois for me, “American Way.”

  26. writerdog
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    When did we become a nation that ignored reason? If you were on my jury and I said I killed the deceased because I thought he might be going to kill me some time in the future. Would you acquit me? Of course not that would be totally against all logic and reason. But yet that is the same reasoning I am seeing to justify a continuing hostility towards Iran. BUT wait, I would farther be justified if there was an official report stating that the decease was not doing anything toward killing me except four years ago he thought about it. NOW would you acquit? How about if the deceased had said he wanted to kill my neighbor sometime in the future? Oh then I would be justified wouldn’t I?

    So why is it that this is the very logic and reasons given for the invasion of Iraq and not backing down on the saber rattling against Iran? Has the country so given way to such a lawless attitude? Why is it that we as citizens of the greatest country in the world, one that has always stood for what is right and just in the endeavors of man. Allowed the President and a chosen few to continue to speak for us? Why would any man of reason and value defend such thought? At the end of the day would you think well of acquitting me of murdering another human being. SOLELY because I thought he might someday in the unforeseeable future attempt to kill me? If you truly are an American and believe in this country and all it has stood for I think not! Or are such antiquated ideals of justice, reason and common sense as dead as the founding fathers? Just when did we lose our way, did the attack of 9-11 so shake our core that it has melted away along with the steel of the World trade towers?

    If you were to read a book where the plot is that this nation is attacked and those responsible are all but forgotten. And instead we revenge ourselves by attacking and threatening others who had nothing to do with it. Would you shake your head and say it could never happen? This madness needs to stop, this foolishness needs to be silenced! Who the heck are we? To continue this leaves no resemblance to America, certainly not a country that would deserve to continue.

    It does not resemble the country I grew up in and learn to be proud of. That my father loved and answered the call of in Korea. That his father loved and his father before him believed in so strongly he gives up his native Germany to move his wife and him to. If any of them were still alive and I told them of today, they would say I was delusional. That such a country could never condone the thought of a preemptive strike and certainly not based on anything more than a may-be, kind of, might be. The very idea holds no water in any court in this land, men have been condemned for taking action for far more evidence of a future threat. Then what has been found in invading Iraq or the continuing blood lust to stop Iran from doing something that has been show that they are not even doing!

    Good sound thinking men have long held that no one can excuse grievous actions with out a clear and imminent cause. You would denounce any Police officer once the suspect puts his gun down going ahead and shooting the suspect. So why if we live by such level headed thinking do we as a nation allow such un-level headed thinking to be our nation policy? This is not a game of Con V Lib, of Republican V Democrat, it is our country and one that stands only as long as we make it one worth standing.

    The extremist does not hate America for its freedoms, it hate it because they do not have the will power to resist it. So should we then change to a country they can understand and agree with? One that forsakes all it right principles for those of a mindless thug. The Neocons think there are three types of people, the rulers, the nobles and the unwashed masses. Of the three I would rather sleep at night being a noble, believing that there are something’s in this country that has been worth the blood shed and the lives lost to defend it.
    They would consider me a fool, one who puts my beliefs above my own good. Above my countries own good, I could never be a ruler. One that thinks only through my own gain should anything is allowed that everyone is expendable as long as I profit and have control.

    If that is the direction this country is turning in, then there is a battle brewing for I believe at the end of such a day there are more Americans left then the rulers would believe. This country could not have become what it is without such people that believe as I do.

  27. Hank Price
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Hey writerdog,

    Your analogy is flawed in many ways. You’ve chosen an analogy that makes your position seem reasonable, but it has no basis in reality.

    If I had a neighbor that had a handgun and he was using it to bully and wound the neighbors would I be justified in destroying his handgun if I had the means and opportunity?

    What if he had on many occasions said that he wanted to destroy our neighbor accross the street and was in the process of making a bazooka? What if he had supported others in the past that had caused us and our neighbor harm?

    What if his past and present actions had given us every right to believe and expect that he would use a bazooka to either harm us or bully us if he got one? Then, would we be justified in destroying his means of making a bazooka?

    When you answer these questions, please realize that tomake this analogy accurate where we live, there is no police force to protect us. We do have a neighborhood organization to address these problems but when violence happened in the past h=they have been ineffective in dealing with it. They alway run to us to help even though they are jealous of our living standards.

    Oh, and your questions about the president’s authority? I don;t have the time nor the desire to educate yo on our constitution, however, the answer to your questions are there.

  28. Pat Herron
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    I wonder if that would work on my own kid if I was say, trying to talk them out of enlisting?

  29. J R
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    It’s official

    “American Way” is insane.

    “They alway run to us to help even though they are jealous of our living standards.”

    My how full of ourselves some of us are.

  30. Posted December 5, 2007 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    The subject was getting interesting untill the partisian showed up. Kansas, it’s too bad you couldn’t contribute anything to the subject besides partisian vitrol.

    Posted by: Solomon | December 05, 2007 at 09:58 AM

    Apparently being judgmental isn’t beyond your scope either. :)

  31. annie moose
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    “I wonder if that would work on my own kid if I was say, trying to talk them out of enlisting”

    hey Pat which kid is yours:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdkg5sPf-tk

  32. stumper
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Hank,Iraq invaded Iran, not the other way around, so who bullied whom? While Iran took over the United States embassy, they did not kill anyone. While Iran is run by hard-liners, if indeed they did stop their nuclear weapons progrma, then why is Bush still talking trash?

    The answer is Iraq: he, and his administration, seem to have learned nothing from the Iraq war. Iran has every right to nuclear energy plants. While I can understand the hysteria over nuclear weapons, Iran seems to be toeing the line there.

    Contrary to what he says, Bush is NOT a peace loving man. He has proven that time and time again with his war in Iraq, his threats to any country that doesn’t toe his line, and his penchant for trying to pull the wool over the American peoples eyes on intelligence data.

    While Iran needs to be seriously looked at, and good intelligence data gathered, Threats of bombing, or invading the country are not what this country should be about. If anything, we should take the diplomatic road, and stop short of threats.

    #1. If I had a neighbor that had a handgun and he was using it to bully and wound the neighbors would I be justified in destroying his handgun if I had the means and opportunity?

    No: we have a police department to do that.

    #2. What if he had on many occasions said that he wanted to destroy our neighbor accross the street and was in the process of making a bazooka? What if he had supported others in the past that had caused us and our neighbor harm?

    No: Again, we have a police department.

    #3: What if his past and present actions had given us every right to believe and expect that he would use a bazooka to either harm us or bully us if he got one? Then, would we be justified in destroying his means of making a bazooka?

    See above answers.

    If your neighbor was physically threatening you, had a gun in his hand, and police wern’t handy, you have every right to shoot first. Otherwise, again, we have a police dept.

    Even in everyday life, we have choices; some right, some wrong. Bush seems to make the wrong choice too many times. Iran being one of them.

  33. Heckler
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Things that make you go hmmmmm…..

    Kenneth Timmermann, the author of the excellent book “The Shadow Warriors” writes:

    A highly controversial, 150 page National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran’s nuclear programs was coordinated and written by former State Department political and intelligence analysts — not by more seasoned members of the U.S. intelligence community, Newsmax has learned.

    Its most dramatic conclusion — that Iran shut down its nuclear weapons program in 2003 in response to international pressure — is based on a single, unvetted source who provided information to a foreign intelligence service and has not been interviewed directly by the United States.

  34. rfl
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Should we have attacked Japan to prevent Pearl Harbor?

    Hypothetically speaking, if we had pursued a pre-emptive strike against Japan, would we have been as successful in the war as history has shown that we were?

    The answer is no.

    We beat Japan because they attacked us first. Therefore, we had the moral mandate to take that country to its knees. Only then could we build that country from the bottom up.

    The world despises the US because we rooted out Sadaam without a direct attack from his regime. Therefore, we do not have the support (at home and abroad)necessary to be brutal enough to win in rebuilding Iraq.

    We should have let him throw his sucker punch at us (if that would have ever happened). And then destroyed his regime from the face of the earth. During the subsequent rebuilding effort, the world would at least understand why we were there.

    Also, Americans would then not be so antagonistic to the US led effort to re-build the country and prevent foreign invaders (AQI) from taking over.

    Pre-emptive strikes are bad strategy. Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) works better.

  35. Heckler
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    rfl

    Your problem is that you look at our invasion of Iraq as an isolated incident, ignoring recent history. In reality it was a continuation of Saddams invasion of Kuwait and then Saudi Arabia.

    A 40 nation coalition kicked his ass back into Iraq and he signed a cease-fire agreement. That agreement had conditions which he refused to meet. Any of those 40 nations involved in that conflict had a right, and as far as I’m concerned an obligation,to overthrow him if he did not meet those conditions.

    Funny how a lot of people seem to forget that.

  36. American Way
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    Well it is official. Not one of the leading democrat candidates is going to do anything about illegal aliens:

    Broadcast on NPR, the debate was limited to three subjects: Iran, China and immigration. The Democrats, unlike the campaign’s Republican contenders, proposed no drastic crackdown on illegal immigrants. On China, they said more should be done to put U.S. companies on equal footing with Chinese imports, but again they proposed no radical new remedies.

    The Democratic candidates said they were not willing to encourage Americans to arrest illegal citizens.

    “We do not deputize the American people to do the job that the federal government is supposed to do,” Obama said.

    Kucinich agreed, saying, “We don’t encourage vigilantism in this country.”

    Clinton said immigrants are part of the U.S. community and probably made the hotel beds that some of the candidates stayed in.

    Source: NPR Radio Debate (the federally funded liberal radio – the only liberal talk radio.)

    PS: J R, Unfortunately I did read another one of your worthless posts (no ideas – just name calling attacks ho-hum). No link to the quote you attribute to me?

  37. anon
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

    No, Heckler, it’s not that we forget that…

    It’s that THAT is NOT the reason Bush used to invade Iraq…

    And Bush invaded Iraq at a time when we didn’t NEED to be there, as A) Iraq posed no direct threat, B) Al-Queda was NOT in existence in Iraq at the time, and C) we SHOULD have been concerting all our efforts to find the real man responsible for 9/11 – you remember him, right? Because our president doesn’t. Oh right, and Bush LIED to us about his reasons for invading Iraq…

    Perhaps you should look at that, as well as the fact that many of those nations who had such a “right” or “obligation” to take down Saddam for violating the terms of agreement REFUSED to back us in our endeavors…

  38. Heckler
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    anon

    Selective amnesia? Go back and read what Bush said about why we were invading Iraq, you’ll find about 6 distinct reasons he gave.

    And if Bush lied so did Clinton, Clinton, Daschle, Kerry, Feinstein, Gore, etc….Move On.

  39. American Way
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    More troubling news from the democrat lead congress:Pelosi to Forge Ahead With $21 Billion Tax Package

    “As its centerpiece, the bill would require automakers to increase fuel efficiency for cars, pickup trucks and SUVs to an average of 35 miles per gallon by 2020, the first increase in the federal auto fuel economy standard in 32 years.”

    Whoopee. I get 45 MPG with my Honda today. Honda and Toyota (together worlds biggest auto manufacturer/sales), cannot keep their hybrids in stock. So Congress decides to give the big three dying US automakers 13 YEARS TO NOT EVEN REACH THE AUTO’S ON THE ROADS TODAY!!!!!!

    Might as well kiss those last remaining union jobs away. They will not compete if they wait 13 years.

    “It also would require a huge ramp up in the use of ethanol — both from corn and cellulosic material such as prairie grass and wood chips — over the next 15 years to 36 billion gallons a year by 2022, a sevenfold increase from today.”

    Not only does ethanol provide me LOWER MPG, it is costly and not efficient to produce. Big mistake.You also ensure the grocery bills for Americans escalate with corns increased price/demand. And Americans are subsidizing all this nonsense – to produce an inefficient fuel source and pay more for groceries.

  40. Posted December 5, 2007 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    I’m not exactly impressed with the McCormick column today:

    http://www.kansas.com/201/story/246318.html

    Inherently, any religion seeks to increase its followers. Public prayer is an opportunity to state the basic tenat of faith. I do not find a Christian ‘leader’ to be acting appropriately if they fail to mention the name of Christ, by which we are saved, in a public prayer.

    If you want to give a non-offensive public prayer then be pro-something. In the column Joe Wright is characterised as being only anti-something, for which he likely gave ample evidence. A sure example of how not to win friends and influence people.

    Mr. Fulton, it’s OK to proclaim that you are an advocate for Jesus Christ in the public square.

    Even if you are a Pastor.

  41. Ronald
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    Kucinich agreed, saying, “We don’t encourage vigilantism in this country.”

    I would have to say indirectly the federal government does encourage vigilantes by a failure to enforce the laws already on the books – and a failure to acknowledge and act on this burning issue for all Americans.

    When a government does not enforce the law – what should the citizens do?

  42. Posted December 5, 2007 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    And if Bush lied so did Clinton, Clinton, Daschle, Kerry, Feinstein, Gore, etc….

    They didn’t invade Iraq, idiot.

  43. Ronald
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    KEENE, N.H. (AP) — Bill Clinton said Tuesday the public would benefit from more attention to the records of the presidential candidates — like his wife’s — and less to daily skirmishes that “won’t amount to a hill of beans.”

    Amber Wilkerson, speaking for the Republican National Committee, said Clinton’s comments were hypocritical given the struggle to get more papers released from his presidential library.

    “It would be a lot easier to assess Hillary Clinton’s so-called experience if she would unlock her records and allow the public to make their own determination about her credentials,” Wilkerson said.USAToday

    Tough break for future Presidents Bill and Hillary, reporter put two and two together.

  44. J R
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    That WAS confusing “American Way”

    I must remember you are insane.

    I say that because of your crap about streets and schools and statues to bush.

    You’re nuts.

    The quote was from someone else I was letting some air out of.

  45. Hank Price
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Well stumper,

    You didn’t read tha whole analogy, In our little neighborhood there is no police.

    Are you dense or just purposely disengenuos?

  46. Posted December 5, 2007 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    When a government does not enforce the law – what should the citizens do?

    Posted by: Ronald | December 05, 2007 at 12:45 PM

    sort and deport :)

  47. Posted December 5, 2007 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Republicans are so eager to see records of a President’s wife. How about Cheney release all those public records about who he met with while creating America’s energy policy? It’s better to see records on elected officials who actually create policy rather than what dress Clinton wears to a state dinner.

  48. American Way
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Darn it J R !!

    If you are going to post insults as 2fers, you have to take the time to fully identify the insultees clearly.

    What kind of troll are you!?%!!

  49. anon
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Heckler:

    Below is the link to Bush’s speech in Cincinnati regarding the iraqi threat. I read the entire speech. While at the very beginning he does allude to Iraq’s failure to comply with the UN sanctions, the only other time they are mentioned in the entire speech is as an example of why waiting to use military force would not work.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html

    The focus of the speech was 1) Iraq’s possession of WMD’s, which we now know to be untrue and 2) 9/11 and somehow managing to link Iraq to 9/11 – which we also know to be untrue.

    I am not saying that anyone else is any less at fault for Iraq. But I AM saying that Bush MADE A MISTAKE, LIED TO US, AND WILL NOT ADMIT IT. And now he is rewriting history to fit his own agenda yet again. (Not to mention the fact that the members of Congress would not have voted on the idea of invading Iraq had Bush not come up with the idea, but that is semantics) I don’t support Hillary, I didn’t want Kerry to get the nomination, and I am not even sure why the hell you mentioned Al Gore because he had nothing to do with the vote to invade Iraq anyways – http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

  50. The Phantom
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    “It’s better to see records on elected officials who actually create policy rather than what dress Clinton wears to a state dinner.”Let’s see records from Hillary’s dry cleaner to see what kind of stains were removed from her dresses, Repub. minds want to know!

  51. Max
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Does everyone realize that Oil has dropped $11 in 9 days, 11% drop!

    http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/intchart.asp?symb=CL08F&sid=2101214&dist=TQP_chart_date&freq=1&time=1mo

  52. sursum
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    kansas: Back to the education comparisons thing. Whatever was, isn’t any more, which is the point of the article. Parts of the world has caught up with (and some passed) the US. There seems to be two constant factors, the first being that top scores seem to arise from a homogenious society and secondly their teachers command respect. Finland was No 1, with Japan, Canada and Korea bunched up right behind. Detailed specifics can be dug up and interperted to suit, but the bottom results line is correct.

  53. Steven Davis
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    7 numbers indicating the competence of George W. Bush:

    $50 billion – how much the Iraq War was estimated to cost before the invasion

    $2.4 trillion – how much the Iraq War is now estimated to finally cost

    $10 billion – how much money is unaccounted for in Iraq

    47 million – how many Americans are living without health insurance

    7 million – how many Americans lost health insurance under George W. Bush

    $3 trillion – how much the national debt has risen under George W. Bush

    24% – how much of our debt is owed to foreign countries

  54. sursum
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    PhilBrownspurn:Homogenious means uniformity of kind or nature, and having similar elements.

  55. Steven Davis
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Posting this link as a falsehood inoculation:

    http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

    This non-partisan group’s numbers back up the health coverage assertions above.

  56. J R
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Cool!

    No link yet.

    Harry Reid on the Senate floor today called all 49 Republican Senators puppets of the White House.

    ‘Bout time someone called that one.

  57. Steven Davis
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    I think there was a problem with spelling:

    http://m-w.com/dictionary/homogeneous

  58. annie moose
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    “Does everyone realize that Oil has dropped $11 in 9 days, 11% drop!”

    hasn’t dropped at the pump!

  59. rfl
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    It won’t stay down for long.

    Interest rates are being frozen (see link below) in spite of the need to fight rising inflation. Too much credit has been extended to unworthy borrowers to fuel the economic expansion. Borrowers can’t pay it back when interest rates need to rise to protect the dollar. To keep the economy from stagnating, the dollar is being sacrified. This will make dollar denominated assets (like oil) more expensive in the future.

    http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071205/mortgage_crisis.html

  60. Mike
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    Republican controlled Statehouse. Wheres the outrage about this?

    http://www.kansas.com/news/updates/story/246836.html

    $265 million to repair the Statehouse

  61. MPS
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    The problem with American students’ math and science performance isn’t that the rest of the world has caught up, it’s that several Asian nations have significantly surpassed the United States. Google TIMSS and PISA and look at performance rankings.

    If you examine math, science and engineering faculty rosters at KU and KSU (go to their websites, click departments and then “people”), you will find growing numbers of Indian and Chinese (mostly Taiwanese) immigrants.

    They came to the U.S., and took graduate school slots that were unfilled, because not enough American students were recruitable. Then the immigrants took faculty positions because there were not enough American Ph.D.s to fill the vacancies incurred by American-born professors’ retirements.

  62. parkay
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    According to a new study published in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, young women who committed an abortion before having a child are at the greatest risk for developing breast cancer. Abortion raises a mother’s average risk of breast cancer 30%, and the huge number of mothers who have fallen victim to the emotional and physical scarring of abortion mills is fueling a breast cancer epidemic. Based on data from 8 European countries with accurate abortion counts, a 51% increase in breast cancer in England and Wales is predicted by 2025, because of the abortion risk factor. Abortion is the only factor accounting for the increase in breast cancer among higher paid women.Only three states — Texas, Minnesota and Mississippi — require abortionist quacks to tell women the possible link to breast cancer. Kansas, while not mandating that abortionist quacks inform their patients of the connection, provides information through their state publications and website.Again, mothers are short-changed on informed consent in abortion mills, while so often being prodded or coerced into abortions by family or friends that don’t suffer the consequences themselves.Another reason to convene grand juries and jail abortionist quacks.

  63. parkay
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    The mass exodus from the mandated homosexual agenda’s indoctrination and recruiting of children in Californicatia public schools has begun, bound to cause noticeable decreases in taxpayer funding to public school districts. The exodus will be fueled largely by churches promoting the protection of children from such depravity, and using church resources for private and home schooling.Just imagine what a moral wasteland the Californicatia public schools will be, as departing Christian influence is replaced by more forced-in student sodomy clubs and faculty queer quotas, and male teachers wearing dresses.Kansas is no doubt next on the sodomite slate, based on Bilious Sebelius’ pro-sodomy edict for queer quotas and pro-sodomy indoctrinations for state employees.

  64. schmoo
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Hooray for sodomy!

    Huzzah!!

  65. Posted December 5, 2007 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Yea MPS, its almost like an institutionalisation of American Society on natural born citizens. We have it so easy here, it breeds laziness. I’d almost have to argue that its the hedonistic aspects of our society that promotes laziness. Non stop entertainment and stimuli, I imagine technical subjects are extremely boring to some of those people.

  66. sursum
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    The “reasons” given in my previous post as to why the 4 countries mentioned did well in scholastic tests just go shot down. I’ve been advised (told really), that the Koreans and the Japaneses are in a brutal schooling systems that demands top marks so much that breakdowns, despair and depression are common because of failure to meet parental expectations. Canada is so much like the America that there is little differencial and the Finns have a very high binge drinking problem with it’s kids starting a very young age. So much for the “teacher respect” and “homogenious society” theories. I’m gonna leave this thing alone now….

  67. Posted December 5, 2007 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Eh?

    I read somewhere that the best theoretical physicists in the world used to come from Russia precisely because the Soviet Union was way behind the curve in developing computer technology. All it takes in physics is a pencil and a brain.

    It worked for Einstein.

    My elderly Mom has a middle school kid who comes over after school every day and do odd jobs for her. She says they sat down to figure out how much he’d earned and the kid didn’t know how to do the math.

    He added the minutes he’d worked and divided them by 100 to come up with his hourly pay. He didn’t understand how he was cheating himself.

    Now, I’ve met the kid and he’s definitely not the brighest pencil in the deck. Yet, he’s probably great at video games.

    I know nothing about video games because I hate video games and I’m glad I hate video games because if I liked video games I’d play ‘em more often and I just hate ‘em!

    Some people have a brain built for playing the accordion. Others get passionate about figure skating or algebra or Bach.

  68. CapnAmerica
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    A post from another board worth re-posting here:

    I started my first real job in my career after college in Feb, 1981. My total payment per month for health insurance was about $85. My company matched that amount for a total of $170 per month for the 42 months I stayed with that company. Grand total paid in: $6,800.00

    I was in graduate school. No health insurance.

    From 6/86 to 8/96 (122 months), I was employed at a second company. I paid about $100 per month for my health insurance and my company paid about $150 per month for me. Total: $250 per month. $250 * 122 months = a grand total of $30,000 paid in during this time.

    From 8/96 to 8/05 (108 months), I was employed at a third company. I paid about $150 per month and my company contributed about $250 per month for a total of $400 per month for my health insurance. $400 * 108 months = $43,200 paid in. WOW!

    I was unemployed or under-employed from 8/05 until 3/06. No health insurance.

    From 3/06 until today, I have been employed by a great small company. They pay ALL the premiums for their employee’s health insurance, about $500 per month for each one(family coverage is paid by each employee). $500 per month * 21 months = $10,500.

    If you add it all up, it comes to $90,500 for my health insurance over the last 26 years.

    So, you ask, how much did you cost them? Well, I’ve never had an accident, never given birth during this time, and my most serious illness was a bout with mononucleosis. No time in the hospital at all. And I’ve actually averaged about 1 doctor visit per year. At an average of $60 per visit, 26 * $60 = $1560.

    And that is why they just love, love, LOVE me! I am the person that they “cherry pick”. I am the face of their profits. And I am the reason they will fight single-payer health care to the DEATH!

    And do you want to know what I think about all this? I think that my money was WASTED! If I and my companies had paid that money into a government-protected health fund (a la Soc. Sec.), it would have gone to help those of you who had no such resources. It would have paid for your diabetic child’s insulin instead of some ass-kissing insurance co. branch manager’s vacation home in Vail. It would have paid for your cancer therapy instead of some bloated CEO’s second yacht. It would have paid for your Grannie’s dental care when she needed dentures, instead of a new 40 story insurance building with marble tile in the executive washrooms.

    I could go on and on, but you get my point.

    ARE YOU LISTENING, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES?

    If you haven’t gotten the point yet, let me spell it out to you:

    INSURANCE IS NOT THE ANSWER, IT IS THE PROBLEM

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×2407713

  69. writerdog
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    Hank your analogy is faulted, your neighbor turned his car around four years ago and never pulling in the parking lot of the sporting goods store. He has NO handgun to bully and wound the neighbors, farther in any attempt to destroy a handgun YOU will be the one that is killing a neighbor. Because the only way to insure the destruction of the possible handgun is to totally destroy his house.

    Intent only counts if the person acts on those intent and it results in harm. Many intend to win the lottery and quit their job, but until that day they are still employed. Iran has supported Hesbollah, in fact I will go farther and Hesbollah may not exist if not for Iran. But that is not building a nuclear weapon, fault them for that support but do not act on make believe.

    If he gets a bazooka than you have cause to act, but YOU would have no justification to act until then and then only if he does point that Bazooka at the neighbor’s house. There is already a neighbor in the community that last count has twenty five Bazookas and is not shy about referring to them in order to have their way. Where is the indignation at the twenty five and why then is there indignation about the other neighbor being interested in getting one? Should you take a poll and see how many of your other neighbors want a Bazooka? My guess that almost every neighbor in the hood wants one, after all their is a neighbor that has them and is noted for over-reacting if feeling threatened. That neighbor’s rep has served them well for a number of decades. But then for several years the only real physical threat has been from the people that also feel they have a claim on the land.

    His history? Excuse me but his history is he acts when attacked! To what incident are you referring to? The only incident where the neighbor has made a cross broader incursion he was first attacked by then U.S. ally.As for your neighbors constantly coming to you to defend them against your other neighbors who are equally armed. Wouldn’t it be about time for you to say to them it is past time to stand up?

    It might be a safe bet that you may belong to the NRA, LaPierre is entitled to speak for the organization.But what would your reaction be if tomorrow he started saying that you have a right to use your firearms to kill anyone who has not done anything to you? For no other reason then they might want to do something to your neighborhood in the future. How about if he were to call on all members to go into the homes of all the members of Handgun Inc. And kill their children, their parents and their pets? As a member of that organization you have a duty to agree or disagree with what ever he said. But also you have a duty to judge where his speech is reasonable and a right to refuse his speech if it is found to be illogical.

    But enough of hypothetical, they are a fun game but the problem with them is there is no requirement that they be based in reality. As such they should not be the basis for real actions that can cause harm. President Bush by his react to the conclusive report on Iran. Shows he is not basing his actions on conclusive reports but on hypothetical. In principle he used this report in 2003 to invade another Sovereign nation, occupy it and cause the death of not only over three thousand of our own but possibly six hundred thousand innocent citizens of that nation. He went to that extreme because of what he sighted in the NIE of 2002, but now it does not have that much weight?

    If hypothetical is grounds for action, you and Nathan have on more then one occasion gotten into heated discussion on this blog. You both have access to deadly weapons and have claimed knowledge and ability to use them. Some may read into that you are a threat so would there be ground for the authorities to take your weapons away? Of course not, I would be totally on your side if they tried. That is just common sense, yet it is that basis that the President wants to act. ON your behalf , claiming it is for yours and your neighbors good.

  70. dwd
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

    CapnAmerica,

    When you pay more in insurance than you receive in benefits it goes to pay for others that did have health problems and had more cost than their premiums. National Healthcare or insurance is the same principal some will pay in more than health care cost some will not. In both cases there will be premiums used to fund over head and in the case of private insurance profit for private insurance companies. The question is does the profit the private companies exceed the cost of government operation? Government is not noted for its efficient operation. Now if you argue that National Healhcare will provide coverage for everyone as opposed to the current situation I will agree. As to cost and quality of healhcare that is an unanswered question.

  71. J R
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    “even though they are jealous of our living standards.”

    And that my friend writerdog, is the key that unlocks Hank and his ilk.

    He has what he has and he will kill anyone that wants at it. He’d kill anyone that even tried.

    SO as we have seen before, his standard of living and convenience are NOT to be trifled with.

    That oil in the mideast? Hanks’ America, they need that. It keeps the status quo in which Hank and the like are quite comfortable. They need it so it belongs to them. That it happens to be in someone else’s land is not a consideration.

    This is FURTHER complicated by religion. Hank lives well because he is a good American and is right with God. Now when you are well off and God is telling you that is the way he wants it? Well you do your darndest to keep God happy.

    SO enters Israel into the picture. They happen to be in the same vicinity as that oil. And God says the people of Israel are special. They are to be cared for and protected. If not? Well God might get cranky and withhold or withdraw blessings.

    (I’m still waiting for mine by the way)

    SO, there is the oil that is theirs by God’s say so and there is Israel that needs protected to keep those say sos coming.

    Don’t try to reason with folks like that writerdog. You can’t. Convinced they are specially blessed they also feel motivated to keep it so. Anything outside that box? It’s like krytonite to Superman. They are not so awful different from the other believing zealots they SO fear and try to scare everyone else into fearing.

    Thing is? Most Americans don’t enjoy any special blessings. I think and hope they are getting tired of paying in blood and treasure so a few CAN have them and maintain their divine claim on them.

  72. The Phantom
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    Sad about the teenager that was fired from McConalds and decided to go shoot up a mall, then himself. You have to wonder if someone close to him didn’t see it coming.

  73. Posted December 5, 2007 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    Good night; Good luck; and God bless; whatever you conceive God to be!!

    Blessings All!!

    MERRY XRMAS!!!

  74. Posted December 5, 2007 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    But, Phantom, we cant say he shouldnt have the gun… because then the NRA people will be out to hunt us down!! LOL

  75. postal
    Posted December 6, 2007 at 12:34 am | Permalink

    The mall shooting in Nebraska can’t have happened… it is a posted “Gun Free Zone.” No guns are allowed in the mall.

    Didn’t the shooter realize that there were not supposed to be any guns in that mall?

    Or did he COUNT ON IT to maximize his victim potential???

  76. Posted December 6, 2007 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    Give me a citation, postal, that the mall was posted.

  77. Heckler
    Posted December 6, 2007 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    Door King

    After perusing several gun forums I’ve found posts from several people who have been there recently who say that the mall is posted.

  78. Heckler
    Posted December 6, 2007 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    …and if I recall correctly the whole city of Omaha is off limits.