Some think Sunday’s church shooting in Colorado is a prime example of why gun liberties are important.
At Colorado Springs’ New Life Church, volunteer security guard Jeanne Assam (in photo) is said to have saved "untold" lives when she shot gunman Matthew Murray. Carrying almost 1,000 rounds of ammunition, Murray had the potential to cause widespread death, but killed just two before he was taken down by Assam.
Assam, a former police officer, was permitted to carry a gun, while security guards at Westroads Mall in Omaha, where eight people were killed, were not.
Posted by Kristin Mehler
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182 Comments
This is a no brainer.
No matter what kind of gun laws that we pass, criminals and suicidal maniacs will not follow those laws.
Gun restrictions put honest, level headed citizens at a disadvantage.
I predict several home runs on this topic.
Very true – sadly. I just hope that the ‘good guys’ with guns are well-trained – as it appears that she was.
Too late, Kristin. See yesterday’s open thread; the issue has been discussed, and probably beated to death.
Not surprisingly, people’s positions are hardened on this topic. Wanna make your own judgements, go there, read.
Then post away.
Question for those with more knowledge than I; would not about 1000 rounds of ammo be very heavy, making carrying that much most difficult? I’ve read that the shooter was carrying the ammo in a backpack.
VT, 35 lbs per 1000 lbs. according to the link below.bhttp://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Machine-Guns/GE_XM214_Minigun.htm
VT,
I’m not sure what “very heavy” would be, VT, since people obviously are able to handle different loads. I’m *assuming* that most of the rounds were in clips for either the rifle or gun, though it’s difficult for me to grasp that he 75 clips or more in his backpack. It’s certainly possible to fit them in there, but maybe he just brought boxes of rounds in addition to clips. More directly to your question, it may have been the equivalent of 4 or 5 bricks? Perhaps a little awkward, but not impeding.
(On a side note, if he gathered 50, 75 or more clips, it indicates the depth of premeditation. His blog post that he wanted to kill hundreds of Christians was deadly accurate. It raises the question of where he got them.)
Well maybe churches should not be exclusion zones for Concealed handgun liscensees
Comment from talking to my son who talked to people in the church that day – there were over 7000 people in the church. His earler attack and rants to kill lots Christians led to all of the churches being on alert.
There is no doubt he intended to kill many more than he did. Was YWAM at fault for sending him home? I don’t think so. He sounded like he had a serious mental illnes and should have been under treatment. He was reportedly hearing voices.
That said the guard did exactly the right thing in shooting to kill.
Most employers dont allow their employee’s to CC while on the clock, Whether its employees at the Omaha mall(unarmed security guards are kind of pointless)Walmart the nations largest private employer, Boeing, almost all other retail and restaurants, Quick Trips which have had several shooting. Even Gmc isn’t allowed to Carry at work.
Again, the intern demonstrates a line of thought/opinion not shared by the editorial staff.
Comment, I was having difficulty envisioning how he was able to carry that much, and how it would all fit in a backpack.
ksgrm, thank you for the information.
It’s almost like having diversity.
I’ve caught a lot of flak from both side when I’ve proposed by approach to gun policy.
Anybody should be able to own any gun under the terms of a 2nd Amendment “well regulated militia.” A 21st Century need not be meeting and drilling down on the town commons as it was in the 19th Century, but there are certain responsibilities associated with every constitution right. And being a member in good standing of a 21st Century version of a *well regulated militia* would address many of these issues.
First of all, expand the standard qualifications for CC licensure to all firearms. You have to prove you’re competent, have had training, and are proficient with the weapons you own. Sound like the shooter in Colorado and the Virginia Tech shooter or the guy who assaulted the pre-school in California might not have passed muster on the competency scale had they been required to show up three or four times a year as part of proving themselves responsible gun owners. Half-an-hour on a Saturday morning is all it’d take.
Secondly, we have to get over the blithe attitude toward stolen guns. The kid who shot up the Omaha mall — like the kid who shot up the grade school in Kentucky, like the kid who shot up the high school in Oregon, etc. — all found it exceedingly easy to “steal” their weapons from “law-abiding gun owners.” If you’re in the military and someone steals your weapon, there’s hell to pay. And rightly so.
The step-father of the kid who shot up the Omaha mall should be held accountable for his obvious lackluster security for his firearms. If nothing else, all gun-owners should be required to hold liability insurance for their weapons. It’d be cheap, if we are to believe the NRA’s claims tha 99.44% of all gun owners never get involved in a crime. But it’s simple responsibility to balance the right to keep and bear arms.
MH -
We may have found areas of agreement. Your second and third points I completely agree with.
As to your first, I’d certainly apply that to CC holders. Had I written the statute, I would have required qualification with the make and model you intend to carry, and I’d require annual requalification or at least a certain number of hours of range time annually. I don’t know that I’d extend that to all firearms owned, carried or not; I see that as unworkable.
Actually I beilive that the current Kansas statute is unconstitutional, having to get state mandated training, classes and getting a permit to exercise a right spelled out in the constitution? If the state passed a law that required one to take a class and get a license before you could attend church people would be up in arms. Yet they are ok with the same standard applied to the 2nd amendment. If you can legally own a gun then you shouldn’t have to jump thru government hoops to carry one. It works like that in Vermont and Texas they dont seem to have many probelms with it.
GMC, so you support gun registration for people who CC? The last people i trust with knowing what weapons I own is the government.
Actually, Tom, Texas’ permitting requirement is actually a bit toughter than ours. 2 states (Vermont and Alaska) require no permitting to carry at all; two states (Wisconson and Illinois) permit no concealed carry at all. Approx 40-42 are “shall-issue,” requiring a permit to be issued to anyone who passes the qualifications; the remainder are “may issue,” which leaves the issuance of the CC permit up to the discretion of some official (arbitrarily, in many cases; the connected or rich get permits, the ordinary do not).
I’d also point out that no right is absolute – where one can do anything, anytime, as long as it is in furtherance of the right. “Time, place, manner” restrictions on speech, for example, are well-recognized. Similarly, not any act is justified if it is claimed to be as part of a religious observance.
Read Parker, DC Circuit case, Tom. I think they got it about right.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hU4ax39rFCnqHnipVp5TCGP6TKqgD8TFEB7G0
Oops, turns out the gunman killed HIMSELF.
Police: Church Gunman Killed HimselfBy JUDITH KOHLER – 18 minutes ago
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) — The man who killed four people at a church and missionary training center died of a self-inflicted shotgun wound, police said Tuesday.
Matthew Murray, 24, was struck multiple times by a security officer at New Life Church Sunday but died after firing a single shot at himself, the El Paso County Coroner’s Office concluded after an autopsy.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP’s earlier story is below.
Tom Paine, not pretending to speak for GMC, but nowhere in his post does he speak in favor of registration, as I read the same.
Read on cnn.com that the AP is reporting the Colorado church shooter committed suicide. Not to denigrate the actions of the security guard in wounding him in any way, as this likely hastened the inevitable at a lesser cost.
An acquaintance has told me he read/heard that the guy was wearing body armor. Anyone know a source on this?
“GMC70″ –
What’s unworkable about it? We license pilots based on competence and a qualified flight instructor is available at just about any county airport in the country. We deliver the mail to every address in America for 41-cents an ounce. Every county as a motor vehicles bureau (and, before you get started on that example, my personal experience with the DMV has been efficient… except for those times when I and everyone else waited until the last day to renew tags).
A city-, or county-, or regionally-based firing range and skeet park could even be a partnership between private enterprise and the 21st Century militia. A recreational option with the added benefit of assuring people with guns are competent, capable, and responsible. Establish that you’re competent, capable, and responsible and you can keep a Howitzer on your porch, as far as I’m concerned. But if you give access of a .22 pistol to your mentally-ill step-son, you’ve proven irresponsiblity.
The kid in Omaha gained access to a semi-automatic version of the AK-47 because his step-father did not take adequate measures to secure the weapon. I don’t blame the weapon. I don’t (to some degree) blame the kid who was obviously deranged and, had he survived the assault, probably would have been determined to be legally insane. I do blame the person who owned the weapon and failed to secure his ownership and posession of the weapon.
The adults in the households of the Columbine killers are responsible for their underaged minors getting ahold of the weapons they used.
It would simply law enforcement. If you’re discovered with a firearm and you cannot produce evidence of your competence, reliability, and responsibility in a court of law, you’ll spend the next 5 years in the pokey as some bad man’s girlfriend.
Even if someone shot your dog.
MonkeyHawk
I remember a political commentator, don’t remember who, stated that if the left treated the Second amendment like they do the first they would REQUIRE everyone to own a gun and would require the government to provide weapons and training to those who could not afford it.
But that’s beside the point. The militia clause does not limit the rights clause.
Oops i misread GMC’s post about being qualified using the weapons you intended to carry.
“The last people i [sic] trust with knowing what weapons I own is the government.”
In principle, I agree with you, Tom, per your “namesake.” But I don’t think the Constitution, while it guarantees the ownership and possession of arms, necessarily requires NO regulation of the carrying of those arms. I’n not proposing registration (though IF the SCOTUS makes clear that the 2nd Am is an individual right, inherent in the individual, I think the objection to registration is lessened considerably). Nor do I think registration laws, requiring registration of all firearms, make much sense.
However, I don’t think it is a bit unreasonable to require a person, if he is going to carry a S&W 38Sp., to qualify with one.
You wanna qualify with more than one gun, fine with me. But if we’re gonna qualify CC (I think is permissible under the 2nd – see above) then qualifying with the weapon carried makes sense, as does mandating ongoing requalification, or at least minimum annual range time.
I shot a man in Reno….
MH – We license those who fly, not those who own an airplane. We license those who drive (and then only on public roads), not those who may own a car. I’m not sure the post office example fits at all.
I don’t think we’re that far apart. Let me ask this: what would a registration scheme hope to accomplish – what would be its goals?
Here’s an issue that the NRA has objected to, for no dicernable reason:
At the end of every gun manufacturing assenbly line, a bullet it shot through the weapon and its lans and grooves enter a computerized data base. And the ownership of that weapon is kept in a similar data base.
We keep track of fingerprints, DNA profiles, Social Security numbers, credit card purchases… there’s nothing “unworkable” about keeping the fingerprints of firearms. And *especially* since 99.44% (according to the NRA) of weapons never get involved in a crime, just how is anyone who matters have their 2nd Amendment rights *infringed?*
I guarantee you one thing, he wasn’t expecting Jeanne Assam and if she hadn’t shot him several times many more people would have been killed or wounded.
He was at the end of his rope, he knew it and he took his own life. The whole question was not about his life… he was ready to die.
The issue was how many people was he going to take out before he died. Thank God, Jeanne Assam answered the call and prevented further death.
I think the lady can rightfully be called a hero.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_%28by_state%29#Concealed_Carry
I was wrong about Texas being a “Vermont” carry state but they do let you have a consealed gun in your vehicle without a permit. And I still think the “Vermont Carry” laws are the way to go. Its also odd that as a Blue state Vermont has the most liberal gun laws in the nation. which our that their are no gun laws except Federal ones and a law that local governments cant impose gun laws.
Monkey you are infringing on my right to have a private bullet mark. Why can the government do this when they shouldn’t listen to my phone calls or read my emails. Get a grip. You give them an inch and they will take a mile.
We have to stay strong and not give up our liberties.
MH. things like DNA and fingerprints records are only kept if you’ve been arrested, credit card purchases aren’t kept by the government either but by the the credit companies. tagging the barrels of guns, it wont work on shotguns as their a smooth bore weapon, other guns if you have the barrel replaced or re bored then you just changed the record making the whole process recording the trace data unless and a unessacary expense.
The last I heard on the shooting was the shooter died from a self inflicted shot.
Also, the guard was a former cop, but the reason she was former wasn’t known.
“We keep track of fingerprints, DNA profiles, Social Security numbers, credit card purchases… there’s nothing “unworkable” about keeping the fingerprints of firearms. And *especially* since 99.44% (according to the NRA) of weapons never get involved in a crime, just how is anyone who matters have their 2nd Amendment rights *infringed?*”
As to discinerable reason: it’s de facto registration. And as long as there are politicians who would seize those weapons, and there is no clear and widely accepted SCOTUS prounouncement that ownership is an individual right, NO NO NO to registration. And BTW – isn’t this the equivilent of “if you have nothing to hide, why would you object to a search?” You would not accept that argument, MH, nor should you. Why should firearms owners rely on your good intentions for protection of their rights and property?
I’ll ask again MH, as an item of first interest: What is the purpose of a registration scheme? What do you hope to accomplish?
GMC
I disagree with you on a requirement to qualify with the gun you carry. It’s certainly a good idea to do that but I shouldnt have to run to the government to get permission to use a new gun I just bought, particularly if I did it out of necessity.
If I break an extractor on the weapon I qualified with, and can’t get one for a week I shouldnt have to go without a weapon while I repair the one I qualified with.
This is droll.
“ksgrm” chimes in with:
“Monkey you are infringing on my right to have a private bullet mark.”
Gee, I missed that in the Constitution of the United States of America.
And then, “ksgrm” continues with:
“Why can the government do this when they shouldn’t listen to my phone calls or read my emails.”
DING!
DING!
DING!
DING!
DING!
DING!
TELL HER WHAT SHE’S WON, JOHNNY!!!
Look at the views of your right-wingnut buddies, “ksgrm.” They’ve had no problem with George WMD Bush monitoring phone calls and e-mails. “If you haven’t done anything wrong, what do you have to worry about?” they say.
Then “ksgrm” adds:
“You give them an inch and they will take a mile.”We have to stay strong and not give up our liberties.”
And here’s the most significant lesson I took away from Michael Moore’s film, “Sicko.” Not the stuff about healthcare or universal coverage or Gitmo or Cuba or all that stuff.
Moore discovered something about France. (Yes! France! Of all places!!)
And here’s the lesson:
*In France, the government is afraid of the people; in America the people are afraid of the government.*
GMC, isn’t listing what firearms you plan to qualify for a CC permit giving the government info on what kinds of firearms you own, in fact de facto registration?
Tom:
Carrying in your car – in a glove box or console – is not illegal in Kansas (unless there is a local ordinance against it, and Wichita, at least, has one. Your mileage may vary – check your local ordinances). The most restrictive ordinance a local gov’t can pass in Kansas is, I think, firearm in container, unloaded, ammo in separate container. IIRC, that’s Wichita’s ordinance. In most of the rest of the state, carrying in your car is not illegal; carrying “on your person” is, absent a CC permit. See KSA 21-4201(a)(4)
Back to the meat of this discussion.
Many out there say that one person with a gun can’t make a difference against a mass shooter, particularly one with a rifle. WRONG!!!
The reason it usually doesnt happen is because most mass shooters select GunFree zones.(or free fire for crazies zones).
The following link lists several cases were ordinary citizens with guns stopped or helped stop mass shooters.
http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/12/10/mass_murderers_v_armed_citizens-2/
GMC, isn’t listing what firearms you plan to qualify for a CC permit giving the government info on what kinds of firearms you own, in fact de facto registration?
Posted by: Tom Paine | December 11, 2007 at 02:26 PM
—-
To some extent, I suppose so. But it’s for only limited firearms (those you propose to carry) and for a limited purpose (ensuring competence with the firearm). And I would not include any serial numbers, “ballistic fingerprints,” or other specific information.
Heck: I guess that’s where we disagree. Qualify with two, three, or four, if you like (I would!). In that train of thought: had a gentleman bring a 2″ .357Mag. to the IDPA shoot the other night; after hearing 1911s and Glocks all night, that thing was a cannon. If the round didn’t get the goblin, the 3 foot of flame shooting out the barrel would!!
Remember: no right is an absolute, covering all acts in all places at all times.
GMC
I don’t mind if you make me prove proficiency with multiple weapons type’s, perhaps make people qualify with several different revolver types and semi-auto types, and tighten up the shooting qualification standards if you must(they are pretty loose) but don’t tie me to a specific list of serial numbers.
Sorry, “Tom Paine” –
When you wrote:
“MH. things like DNA and fingerprints records are only kept if you’ve been arrested…”
Uhm, nope.
Twenty years ago I was employed writing silly little commercials for the Kansas Lottery. Part of my company’s getting the contract was having the Kansas Highway Patrol take my prints and enter them into the system.
As an “added security measure” many banks “offer” their customers the opportunity to enter a fingerprint into their data base. Do you really think law enforcement can’t access that data? Please.
And then you added:
“…credit card purchases aren’t kept by the government either but by the the credit companies.”
Jeez! Am I the only one on the planet who watches “Law & Order?” *All* that “private” data is accessible.
And then you suppose, for reasons I have trouble imagining:
“…tagging the barrels of guns, it wont work on shotguns as their a smooth bore weapon, other guns if you have the barrel replaced or re bored then you just changed the record making the whole process recording the trace data unless and a unessacary expense.”
Yeah, “Tom Paine,” I know about shotguns. And there’s nothing preventing “replacement” barrels from a final Quality Control test that would result in a weapon fingerprint that might help law enforcement.
So the process might not be perfect. It’s not perfect that every tire company keeps track of each product’s tread pattern; but it’s helped solve a lot of crimes. It’s not perfect that DNA identifies the perp; there was that case of identical twins.
“Added expense?!” Just how much does it cost to shoot a bullet and photgraph it? Have you priced guns lately? They’re pretty rudimentary technology. If the mere act of *shooting* a bullet through a gun cost (and we’re being extravagant here, like… a *dime?* what’s the difference?
So your Glock won’t cost $399.99, plus tax; it’ll cost $400.09, plus tax.
Yeah, *that’s* a deal-breaker.
It’ll ruin the gun industry in America!!
Remember: no right is an absolute, covering all acts in all places at all times.
Posted by: GMC70 | December 11, 2007 at 02:36 PM
This is where we differ, I belive that rights are absolute up until your rights begin to interfere with another persons rights.
Heck -
I’ve never proposed tying anyone to any serial numbers. See above.
We’re on the same page here.
” belive that rights are absolute up until your rights begin to interfere with another persons rights. ”
Then we agree, Tom. Rights are not absolute.
GMC, actually we dont agree you beilive that its acceptable for the government to require, licensing, state mandated training, and assorted regulations in order to exercise ones right to bear arms. I do not, my carrying or not carrying a weapon has no affect or infringement on anyone else. Unless I am forced to use it then I better make sure that I am justified.
“my carrying or not carrying a weapon has no affect or infringement on anyone else.”
I’m not sure I’d entirely agree with that, but point taken. You presume that the “right to keep and bear arms” necessarily includes the right to carry one concealed without restriction. That is where I disagree.
But we’re not adversaries on this issue, but allies, Tom, despite our disagreement on the details.
Be safe.
I do beilive in commonsense restrictions, like if you cant legally own a gun because of a criminal conviction or mental illness then you cant carry one either.
I’m not sure, “Tom Paine,” how your constitutional right to keep and bear arms somehow has precidence over my constitutional right to have a “*well regulated* militia.”
Jeanne Assam is HOT!
Admit it it’s her big guns that excites you.
Another wash out personality with a assault weapon.
He mass killed victims in the church parking lot easier than using a handgun at the earlier shooting.
I haven’t heard the assault weapon identified.
Some don’t blame the gun, its an inanimate object. That object has dominion over people. It’s the Constitution they cry, we can limit certain types of guns in this society as a public safety issue.
What reason does anyone have, getting assault rifles?
They have some intention to fire it at people some day. It’s not used for hunting.
It’s great the former police trained Assam put down the killer.
She wasn’t the only one. I read she was the only security guard armed, that matters.
Some CC think they can do this sort of thing by themselves. I don’t trust CC by themselves.
It’s better to have coordination as a team, some command and controls.
I don’t believe society is safer with a bunch of people carrying guns. Their lazy in many respects with a gun!
There still has to be a security presence in society with command and controls. Gun free zones consider that.
Security with command and controls some should be armed. Shopping malls can have armed security but they have to be former police or military.
I don’t expect women in Von Maur shopping, they have a gun to protect themselves from being assaulted, to battle against a killer shooting other people.
Some guys, it doesn’t matter if they have a gun, being brave is questionable in that moment.
People can be brave, unarmed and still make a difference saving lives.
Some killers with guns are cowards and weak if confronted.
So the Colorad shooter shot himself in the head, what did the guard do, finish the job?http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316398,00.html
So the Colorad shooter shot himself in the head, what did the guard do, finish the job?http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316398,00.html
Blog acting very strange!
This has me suspicious too.
That woman, she has the coldest eyes I’ve ever seen on a woman. She’s a little scary even.
Are there witnesses? This just doesn’t sound right. She shoots him and then he shoots himself instead of shooting her?
Is it possible she called for this guy to surrender, he shoots himself, and then she puts a few more in him?
Granted, she still would get the credit for stopping him. But if it DID go down that way? It makes you see this strange looking woman in new light.
GD doctors kill more people than guns do!
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/11/colorado.shootings/index.html
Above linked article indicates that the coroner’s statement was that the gunman was hit several times by shots from the security guard and went down, at which time he (apparently) shot himself in the head. Article also contains quotes from a witness.
MH -
Are you reading the same 2nd Am. as I? There is no right to a “well-regulated militia;” the amendment specifically refers to the “RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms.”
It’s tough to parse that away. Moreover, I don’t know why you’d want to do so unless there is an agenda to “infringe” on that right at some point. You’ve said you have no such agenda, but given your apparant strained reading of the 2nd, I have to wonder . . .
Mrage – I noted this:”That object [a scary looking rifle, aka so-called "assault rifle"] has dominion over people.”
Do you really believe that; that there is something magic about an inanimate object? That belief is referred to as “sympathetic magic,” the equivilent of believing that sticking pins in voodoo dolls will hurt others. Given that this is what you apparantly believe, I have to question your credibility at all . . .
It makes you see this strange looking woman in new light.
Posted by: J R | December 11, 2007 at 05:22 PM_________
Unfortunatly JR, we see you in the same, sick light in which we’ve come to know you. It reveals your cracks and character flaws all too vividly. Looks like you’re just trying to find another club to bash someone who is a hero. If you could/would read, I would refer you to the Coroner’s report, printed all over the www. It states the CC woman put the gunman down with “several” shots, but the final shot was by his own hand.
JR…cnn reports that the guy that was shot in the hall says she fired and hit the dirtbag 3 times, sending him to the floor where he shot himself in the head.Lets give her a break. She has served in the past in law enforcement, she is licensed by the state to carry a firearm and 6 of the security guards there are certified by the state. Cold eys…maybe.Great shot under those conditions.
JR…cnn reports that the guy that was shot in the hall says she fired and hit the dirtbag 3 times, sending him to the floor where he shot himself in the head.Lets give her a break. She has served in the past in law enforcement, she is licensed by the state to carry a firearm and 6 of the security guards there are certified by the state. Cold eys…maybe.Great shot under those conditions.
So I stand corrected. The first link does not mention these things.
And you don’t know me tator tot. At least not in that nic.She’s still creepy looking. Too? I like for someone who has killed another human being to feel something different than that they were an instrument of God. That’s…unsettling.
God, Guns, hmmmm what’s missing from the article?
God sent her to clean the gene pool
Looks like it would be hard to know which shot came first, don’t tell me FOX led me astray!
GMC,
It’s my belief, guns have dominion over some people. It’s like a drug, addictions happen. I’ve seen it get out of control in a gun collector friend.
Criminals think they will get their way using a gun for crimes. They take pictures of themselves styling with a gun.
Someone like you, considers gun as a key defense weapon. You overwhelmingly want it in society.
To me, that’s like looking at a really fat police officer. What physical effort will go into protecting society?
How can people defend themselves if they are out of shape and carrying a gun?
A lot of CC are lazy in many ways!
Gun free zones exist so they have to defend themselves without a gun many times in daily life.
Those many hours you want people to shoot at the gun range, I want them to exercise just as often.
Do things physically to protect themselves instead of counting only on a gun.
When criminal use assault rifles they are the laziest criminals of them all. Mass killings against soft targets is insane and shouldn’t happen.
We can limit assault rifles and society still has access to guns as the Constitution affirms.
Limit them from collectors and trading. Ban them completely from transfer between people as a legal process. No selling them on Ebay or Craigslist, not in magazines or anywhere.
Government can control mail and shipping, people can police themselves. Its illegal to trade certain weapons.
The manufactures say no more parts will be created. Stocks of gun parts will be destroyed.
It’s like getting certain cars off the road because of public safety issues.
If anyone needs to carry a gun, they should also be in pretty good physical shape.
People with a physical problems, they take a bunch of pills, shouldn’t have a CC license.
Medical checks should happen when CC renew their license.
Mrage
Should a paraplegic in a wheelchair be allowed to carry?
JR
“She’s still creepy looking. Too? I like for someone who has killed another human being to feel something different than that they were an instrument of God. That’s…unsettling.”
There’s a phrase to describe a statement like that. Bigotry.
Mrage do you know the difference between phyiscal problems and mental problems?
This has me suspicious too.
That woman, she has the coldest eyes I’ve ever seen on a woman. She’s a little scary even.
Are there witnesses? This just doesn’t sound right. She shoots him and then he shoots himself instead of shooting her?
Is it possible she called for this guy to surrender, he shoots himself, and then she puts a few more in him?
Granted, she still would get the credit for stopping him. But if it DID go down that way? It makes you see this strange looking woman in new light.
Posted by: J R | December 11, 2007 at 05:22 PM—————-
So I stand corrected. The first link does not mention these things…She’s still creepy looking.
Posted by: J R | December 11, 2007 at 05:41 PM_________
JR,
That little process that you just went through very publicly is exactly why people know you as biased and warped. You questioned the motives of someone who stopped a mass murderer determined to kill Christians. You gave the murderer the benefit of the doubt. Finally, by your own admission, you partially acknowledged your error. The point is, though, because of the bias and contempt that oozes out of you–the colored lenses you see the world through–you assumed the woman (whom everyone calls a hero) to be suspect and sinister. And what do you base that on? Some emotional, mystical feeling that is known only to you that she has cold eyes.
You just demonstrated how your mind and biases work. We’ve all known that, but maybe now you can see what we see.
Mrage
Assault weapons are not the issue. People who need some serious psychological help are the issue.
There have been lever and pump action rifles around since the late 1860’s. Some of them held nearly 20 rounds of ammo. With a little practice you can run them nearly as fast as a semi-auto. People didnt do mass shootings.
During the 1920’s and 30’s you could mail order a Thompson sub-machine gun. Or a BAR. Aside from mobsters killing each other no one did mass shootings with them.
As late as the 1970’s in this country kids would carry their rifles and shotguns to school and keep them in their locker or the Principles office. They’d hunt on the way home. And they didnt shoot up the schools.
Mass shootings in this country have nothing to do with “assault rifles”. Ban them and there will still be crazy people shooting up schools and malls and churches. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO BLAME IT ON THEN? What will you try to ban NEXT?
Fix the problem. Banning guns is what politicians do instead of something.
Heckler,
Is there a wheelchair that has a gun at the ready to fire? How would paraplegics fire a gun? Maybe they push a button with some part of their body or voice command?
How can a paraplegic in a wheel chair use guns?
People in wheel hairs can be in good physical shape if they have a functioning upper body. They can carry a gun.
Wiseman,
Yes I know the difference, pain medication for physical problems can cause some mental illness if a person gets addicted.
Some people moderate their pain with medication.
Some people with seizures, don’t take their medication, they pass out in cars causing accidents. No one dies possibly but that’s a serious physical condition. Some accidents people die!
That kind of person having sudden seizures shouldn’t be carrying a gun!
If suffering from a medical problem, it has to depend on drugs being taken if they are allowed to legally carry a gun.
One thing about this that is bothering me is that the news continues to describe this person as a “security guard”. This leaves alot of people saying, oh well thats what is suppose to happen, this person was a “security guard” and it was her job and THAT was why she was carrying. This is incorrect, the church was aware she was CC, but she was not at the church in the capacity of providing security.
It’s the same thing as if I was invited to a high school one day to give a lecture on toaster repair. If something happened at the school that day and I was later interviewed about what went on and the news identified me as a “teacher” would that be correct? I don’t think so.
Heckler
Is the gun lobby seriously concerned about national or state mental health issues, it doesn’t seem so.
No eye test required in some states to get a gun license. Background health issues left only to the government.
Gun stores don’t ask enough questions, why someone is buying a gun.
Some crazies have guns, they are celebrated causes. When the government stands off against people with guns not giving up.
Crazies want guns and the gun lobby doesn’t really restrict them from getting one.
Mrage
Ummm, a paraplegic would be someone who’s legs are paralyzed. They could shoot with their hands. Never mind. I know your answer. You would deny the ability of self defense to some of the most vulnerable among us.
Mrage
In case you didnt know it the NRA supported the current form of instant background check. They also support creating better databases of people with psychological problems that would preclude them from owning a gun.
Just who is the “gun lobby” you don’t seem to know much about?
Just what questions is a gun dealer supposed to ask? What’s to keep the buyer from lying?
“And what do you base that on? Some emotional, mystical feeling that is known only to you that she has cold eyes.” (Tater)
==========================
NO Tater. That can easily be based on knowing the background of that church made up of a bunch of disgruntled people, who hate public schools; who hate gays/lesbians; who grow because of what they are against, instead of who and what they are for;
For those reasons and many more, it is a little suspicious that the lone gunman was shot down by a lone security guard with a gun; and then gunman allegedly kills himself. Earlier in this story line, it was said the security guard killed him. Obviously that was the original spin. Apparently, the guard brought him down, and then he shot himself.
OR, JR could be right. After all, there were no witnesses. You certainly did not see the event happen. So, you are only speculating yourself, but you make yourself out to be this heap big shot “somebody” on the Blog who knows all and sees all, and anybody else is full of crap except you and your tiny little vicious opinions.
So, this JR might be right on target. I suppose time will tell, and ballistics, and a few other necessary tests.
Either way, the shooter is dead. And from the sounds of the story, that is what he wanted, but fortunately he didnt take as many out with him as he planned.
For that, there is only THANK YOU GOD!
The gun allows many who are physically inferior to a would be attacker, to put themselves on a more level playing field.
A smaller man or woman, and older man or woman, someone in a wheelchair, etc….
Remember the story about the Grandma from Arlington, TX who shot an intruder in her house?
If she didn’t have a gun, what would have happened to her, her daughter, and her grandaughter?
http://www.nbc5i.com/news/5286088/detail.html
Max, look at the stupid question you ask — What would have happened if… If what? There is NO answer to that question. But from the slant of your post, your answer in your mind is that significant harm would have been done to the grandmother, mother, and granddaughter. Yet, you have absolutely No Factual Basis for such a supposition.
All you know is that there was an intruder. Grandma had a gun. Grandma shot the intruder.
No name
“OR, JR could be right. After all, there were no witnesses.”
Uhhh, there were several witnesses.
“the background of that church made up of a bunch of disgruntled people, who hate public schools; who hate gays/lesbians; who grow because of what they are against, instead of who and what they are for”
Posted by: | December 11, 2007 at 07:03 PM___________
Dear [blank],
Please see previous post to JR about his biases. It has application for you, too. But we certainly appreciate you exposing it here for us. Now if only you would be brave enough in your position to include a nic so we knew the source…
Also, for the record, would you please give us a short summary of what you know about the church and the mission agency where the attacks occurred? I’m guessing that’s gonna be difficult for you to do, since your warp prevents you from learning much. Rationality and/or thoughtfulness tends to be scarce in the mind of someone so consumed by that kind of bigotry, bias and hate.
Even one large able-bodied man, would benefit by having a gun, if he was outnumbered by several attackers at once:
Grand Rapids Press, Grand Rapids, MI, 10/18/06
State: mi
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2007
Customers were browsing the shelves at a food store shortly before closing time when three men entered the building. Police say the men waited for the customers to leave before announcing an armed robbery. Once they emptied the store’s coffers, the robbers took all store employees to the back of the store and bound them with duct tape. With a gun aimed at his head, the store manager, who has a concealed-carry permit, freed himself and drew a .45-caliber handgun. The manager fired several times, striking his assailant twice. The injured robber died while the other suspects fled. “In my opinion, if this man had not had a gun, my concern is that they would have executed these people,” county prosecutor William Forsyth said.
Or an older man facing a gang of men:
Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, Milwaukee, WI, 04/07/05
State: WI
American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/2005
A 64-year-old traveler from Arkansas stopped to ask directions at a Milwaukee gas station and soon found himself confronted by a gang of young men. A fight started, during which one attacker choked the motorist while a second beat the man with his own cane. Acting in self-defense, according to the police report, V.O. Goins then pulled a handgun from under the seat and shot and killed the 20-year-old thug who had been choking him. Officers responding to the scene found Goins’ car keys on a juvenile accomplice. A Milwaukee assistant district attorney said Goins would not be charged.
http://www.nra.org
Say Blank, in this case, the Wife and Daughter were shot by the intruders. Ya think that MIGHT have happened in the TX Grandma case?
Associated Press, 01/17/06
State: nc
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/2006
Carlton Whitted, Sr., woke up after hearing a loud noise reverberate throughout his home. “It sounded like a bomb went off,” he said. What he heard was two men in their 20s kicking in the door of the isolated, rural North Carolina home. Police say the men shot Whitted’s wife and daughter in the legs. Whitted then grabbed his .22-cal. rifle from the corner of his bedroom and shot both intruders, who fled on foot. The suspects turned up at a hospital where they faced several felony charges upon their release.
http://www.nra.org
That CHURCH is founded on bias, bigotry, and hatred. It has its roots in the mind of Ted Haggard, who lost the church due to his admission of sexual scandal, and dealings in drugs. The Church is avidly opposed to public schools since its inception. They are anti-gay rights, and anti gay marriage(obviously). They preach a gospel of hatred, not love. A gospel of exclusion, not one of inclusion.
You want any more background?
If there were witnesses to the shooting, why are there stories that there were no witnesses when the security guard shot the perpetrator?
I think it’s your turn to start explaining your totally irrational behavior on this Blog. Yes, it is a public Blog, but you, Tater, or whatever your name is, you do not own this Blog. And you can be held accountable for the vile crap you post here about other contributors. So, just keep it up. And you will be dealt with by those in the proper places to handle such attitudes as yours.
There are thousands of stories like this.
Say Blank, in this case the Bad Guys broke into the house and were holding the family at gun point. Ya think he meant no harm to those people he was pointing his gun at? I’m sure you wouldn’t mind if the same thing happened to you. No reason to shoot the guy, just cause he’s pointing a gun at your family.
The St. Augustine Record, St. Augustine, FL, 11/05/05
State: fl
American Rifleman Issue: 2/1/2006
Police say three men broke into a couple’s residence with baseball bats and a gun in search of prescription drugs, but all they left with was a lesson from an armed citizen. Two of the men allegedly ordered the couple and their visiting family members to the floor while a third suspect stole the medications. Meanwhile, a family member in another room heard the commotion and armed himself with a firearm. He entered the room and fired several shots at the intruder who was holding the victim’s relatives at gunpoint, hitting him once in the torso. Two men fled in a car and were apprehended by police. The wounded man was found collapsed in the street. The trio faces charges of home invasion, robbery and kidnapping. “They were very threatening to the family,” said St. Johns County Sheriff David Shoar. “[The man who was shot] had the gun to the wife’s head.”
http://www.nra.org
(Mrage, do NOT click on the above link. It will completely change your mind forever.)
So, just keep it up. And you will be dealt with by those in the proper places to handle such attitudes as yours.
Posted by: | December 11, 2007 at 07:23 PM
This is a Liberal Chasism. Totally irrational emotional outburst, fired-up by a catalyst of hate and bigotry.
When backed into a logical corner, the Chasist type will scratch and snarl like a pussy cat backed into a corner between a pool of water and a pack of hungry wild dogs.
Then the infantile Chasist type will go run and complain to his Blog Mommy. And you will be “dealt with” alright.
The Lib Blog Editor will pull your posts faster then you can say “Super Chasismistic”!
An earlier report stated she dropped the guy, then he reached for something black like a grenade, and she put another one in him.The latest version sounds a little nutty too. After concealing herself, shooter come in shoots two other men, she stands up telling him to surrender, then starts walking to him gun blazing.Most rational people would have shot the guy from where they were concealed, instead of going up against a rifle.
Hey tator?
YOUR opinion means less than nothing to me. The fact that you are ghosting in another nic makes you look small.
Get smaller. Diminish. Disappear.
A normal person does not kill another human being and then speculate that they are an instrument of God.
Lets find out what some are made of.
Forget this as yet not fully explained case.
The guy in Texas who shot and killed the two robbers OUTSIDE his neighbors house.
Was he right?
I say he should go to jail.
***Sado-Chasm Alert***
As much as I hate to admit it, [BLANK] provides some justification for somewhat stronger restrictions on firearms.
(I have no way of knowing this, but if it’s true that CapnAmerica was banned today, I’m thinking he could’ve found a work-around. Although the logic is kinda Chasismic. I guess this kind of vitriol could come from any of several, as we’ve seen in the last coupla days. But in general, libs on the run threaten and scream as they fling their hatred.)
Comment tator= kansas
JR
Some might if the person killed was fixin to murder a bunch of unarmed folks in a church.
JR
The guy in Texas shot those 2 on his property as they were advancing toward him. But you didn’t hear that little detail in the news report you saw did you.
What’d Capn get banned for?
Hey I don’t want her to be sorry about it.
But she’s just too awful …..I don’t know what.
That’s not something you see in a normal person. Most cops are given leave to deal with something like this.
JR.,
Was Gen. George S. Patton a “normal” person, as you perceive normal?
Not so heckler.
He confronted them after being told by 911 not to.
Then he shot them. One of them he shot running away. For property that was not his. And apparently for people he barely knew.
I’m not going to trade posts with you “kansas”.
I will not help you get the blog shut down.
Here’s one quote from Patton. Many are available. Patton saw himself and the American forces as executing God’s justice on the enemy.
“God of our fathers, who by land and sea have ever lead us to victory, please continue your inspiring guidance in this the greatest of all conflicts. Strengthen my soul so that the weakening instinct of self-preservation, which besets all of us in battle, shall not blind me to my duty to my own manhood, to the glory of my calling, and to my responsibility to my fellow soldiers. Grant to our armed forces that disciplined valor and mutual confidence which insures success in war. Let me not mourn for the men who have died fighting, but rather let me be glad that such heroes have lived. If it be my lot to die, let me do so with courage and honor in a manner which will bring the greatest harm to the enemy, and please, oh Lord, protect and guide those I shall leave behind. Give us the victory, Lord.”
General George S. Patton quotes (American General in World War I and II, 1885-1945—–
I thought the jury was still out as to whether the security guard shot him or he shot himself. Anyway, that’s what I read in the Eagle today.
I feel a premonition coming on! Bush will meet with her and give her an award.
Thanks Tater, that’s what the latest version reminds me of. The scene where patton walks out 45 blazing as the plane above is straffing all around him!By God, she’s another Patton!
That will be interesting to find out, Mary Caruso. Time will tell that tale.
I will from this time forth, treat Tater as a Persona non Grata — Because his posts are totally worthless, and his attitude smells like the odor of an outhouse on my old uncle’ farm.
What was it that Patton’s soldiers said about him? “Old blood and guts…our blood and his guts”.
My father in law carried Patton’s colors. He was also at Pearl Harbor when it was bombed.
Those were the words spoken of aabout Patton… The father of a friend of mine served under Patton in Germany. Said he was one of the most underhanded, screw ups the army had produced for many years. Many of the men under him put him on the shelf of most hated, right next to MacArthur.
Heckler,
C’mon, how long have guns been “problem” in our society, Cho murders at V-Tech suddenly NRA is concerned about mental health!
What’s a gun store supposed to ask customers? I want a better educated person with a degree in sociology or psychology to sell guns. I want them at gun shows!
Gun businesses should have that kind of person who by degree, knows how people behave!
Someone with former leadership in Military or Police.
Guns stores have to figure out through conversation why someone suddenly needs gun. Store bought guns are used for crimes. Straw buyers have to be looked at closely.
Some purchase an assault rifle, family member steals it! An irresponsible person gets a mass killing weapon.
What is the psychology about purchasing an assault rifle? That person wants to shoot the government or someone else with it!
Home protection doesn’t require an assault weapon.
I don’t care if a person has 100 shotguns and rifles used for hunting. They can have any amount of handguns.
I want the assault rifles off the market, so nobody has them!
I know your gun lobby and some are irrational wonkers wanting assault weapons in societies. They want “militia’s” buying bulk assault weapons to help gun manufacturers.
Your right, someone with gun doesn’t mean they will use for crimes.
I’m saying criminals have abused everyone’s right to own assault rifles.
Assault rifles gives some people a personality they shouldn’t have.
If ever the police shows up, give up is rational!
If a criminal has an assault weapon, their insane to use it in public.
It both cases, home protection against the government and using it in public are irrational thoughts!
We are off topic. Max, you couldnt stay with your original story in Texas, so you had to resort to finding others that supported your point of view. That is a very lame argument. Any body who professes to be as smart as you do here daily, should know better than pulling that stunt of diversion.
And you will be dealt with by those in the proper places to handle such attitudes as yours.
Posted by: | December 11, 2007 at 07:23 PM
Blank has to Chas hiding under a ‘blank’. He has used those same words to threaten before.
” ” = Chas
Our corporate plane leaves Chicago in 30 minutes. I will appear here again soon enough. The Boss wants me to make sure the Champagne and Lobster are in the Galley for our L.A. flight. Some of you people really need to clean up your acts here. I havent seen this kind of sorry Blogging in a long time.
Ksgrm, are you having an obsession about this “Chas” person? It would appear that way to some. I assure you, I know none of you on this Blog. I was asked by some friends to have a look, which I have done. I will send my report tomorrow. Good Night!
[Blank] has lots of courage while he is incognito. (Max, I told you we’d be able to add to the Chasism dictionary before midnite.)
Oh, btw, do blank, incognito posts get pulled and banned, too? You know, just putting on a trench coat (for whatever reason you may do it) and dark glasses doesn’t hide your IP address.
ksgrm,
I kinda thought the same thing…
Chas’ style.Chas’ anger.Chas’ logic.Chasisms all over the place. Especially “the THREAT” of blog mommy. If we have a threat of legal action, there will be no question.
It was the ‘blog mommy’ threat that did him in. No one else uses that phase like our Chas.
Bless his heart.
Maybe we have been to hard on him and he could come back as himself if we play better.
Chas, Sugar and now ” ” maybe he is having an identity crisis.
It’s pretty clear that comment tator = kansas
It was the “arm waving” gave him away.
J R thinks I’m “Comment Tater” ksgrm. If only I had thought up such a clever blog name. :)
JR.
I thought you weren’t speaking to me.
The reason their needs to be gun laws, such as taking classes to earn a permit is very simple. Back when the Constitution was written, guns were still fairly primitive, and even an imcompetent person with 1 gun didn’t pose that much of a threat, because it took nearly 50 seconds to reload. But today, we have semi-automatic assault rifles, automatic silenced pistols and all sorts of other crazy ass stuff. So yes, I do see the point of going to classes to earn a permit as logical.
“Here’s one quote from Patton. Many are available. Patton saw himself and the American forces as executing God’s justice on the enemy.”
Doesn’t the above sound like Osama bin Laden?
“Yeah, Kansas, what DID I get banned for?”
Posted by: CapnAmerica
Maybe for giving Mr. Kansas some well deserved wedgies – just marking his laundry, I know…
We are off topic. Max, you couldnt stay with your original story in Texas, so you had to resort to finding others that supported your point of view. That is a very lame argument. Any body who professes to be as smart as you do here daily, should know better than pulling that stunt of diversion.
Posted by: | December 11, 2007 at 08:04 PM
Off topic? Defending oneself or others with a firearm is off topic on this thread?
Heckler asked if a parapalegic should be allowed to have a carry permit. Mrage said No. I brought in other examples of people in situations where it’s quite evident that those who carry can and do save lives.
That is the heart of this thread.
Blank, your diversion accusation of a diversion was quite comical.
Oh, btw, do blank, incognito posts get pulled and banned, too? You know, just putting on a trench coat (for whatever reason you may do it) and dark glasses doesn’t hide your IP address.
Posted by: Comment Tater | December 11, 2007 at 08:14 PM
The Invisible Chasism.
And now he’s a little Chasism flying his big jet airplane.
I wonder if the chicks are free.
Invisible plane, that would make him the:
Wonder Chasism!
My my, someone is cranky or perhaps even posting for someone who is cranky. :)
Don’t let ‘em get at ya Chas.
Anyone who would ally themselves with kansasJM aint worth it.
I heard that this “hero” woman was fired as a cop.
Something about she screamed obscenities at a bus driver?
I’m not sure on this. Just something I heard Hannity moaning about. Lend it the attendant credibility.
“It’s a beatnik theif”
suspicious…
Capn was a lot of things, but never a bad speller. :)
Ok Capn, now you got me riled up.
I’m gonna sick the blog editor on ya!
Or even worse, my brother Slats.
Maybe Blank is Al Gore? Riding his big jet airplane, shootin CO2 in the air, and killin polar bears.
(You know, it’s a lil known fact that Al Gore’s father is Elmer Fudd.)
“I am happy to have not been there before. ”
Then don’t come back or let the corral gate hit ya in the A$$
——————————————————————–
Kansas–
Whoever told you that I’ve been banned, he done lied.
And btw, I’m a crappy speller, especially when I’m typing fast.Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 11, 2007 at 09:36 PM
My mistake Capn. But you know you are writing an awful lot like J R.
You know, phrases like “he done lied.”
Of course, the patented “J Rism”
“And btw…”
:)
Sgt. Jesse Garcia, a Minneapolis police spokesman, said Jeanne Assam worked at the department from March 1993 to November 1997. She was fired for lying during an internal investigation. Sgt. John Delmonico, president of the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis, said police were investigating a complaint that Assam swore at a bus driver while she was handling an incident on a city bus.
“In giving a statement about the incident, she was untruthful and she was fired,” Delmonico said. The swearing was caught on tape, he said. “The union arbitrated the case and the arbitrator upheld the termination.”
Jeanne Assam’s home phone number is unlisted and she couldn’t be reached for comment Tuesday.
Sam Assam didn’t want to comment on the incident, saying it happened 10 years ago.
Other personnel records about Jeanne Assam’s time in Minneapolis, such as commendations or disciplinary actions, have been destroyed because she worked at the Minneapolis Police Department so long ago, Garcia said. Such records are destroyed after seven years.
Ms. Assam appears to have more than made up for her past transgression by saving the lives of countless people.
I have never used “btw” idiot.
One. Go find one instance of me using that. Not that it matters. Just pointing out more of your foolishness.
Al Gore’s father was Senator Al Gore.
I knew there was something not right about this chick.
Bye Sugar and you have a good night now. Take your meds and callllmmmm down. You know your blood pressure can’t take that much excitement. And watch the high altitudes. It’s not good for someone in your condition.
She looka like a man.
Foolishness is right, JR.
How am I posting over my typekey account if I am somebody else?
Why would somebody else WANT to log in as me?
Time to head off for Mississippi again, JM . . .
Uh Oh — Well, at least that story says she was fired for swearing at a bus driver, and not for shooting somebody in an unlawful manner. Almost anybody could get called on the carpet for swearing at some point in life.
Still, JR, I dont think the incident in Minnesota has any bearing on how she handled the situation in Colorado!
Let’s just try to see it this way: What she did quite likely saved other lives. And that is not a bad thing.
J R you are a lying son of a gun. As a past HR person I can tell you that if anyone said that about a past employee no matter what the reason for her leaving the department – they are writing her a blank check.
Must have got that one from the DU thread.
Uh oh… looks like Grannie stayed up too late. She is talking to some imaginary person! LOL What IS your problem Grm?? Honestly!!
How am I posting over my typekey account if I am somebody else?
Why would somebody else WANT to log in as me?
Time to head off for Mississippi again, JM . . .
Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 11, 2007 at 09:49 PM
I’m sure you know how to do that as you explained how to before on another nic. :)
I just googled her name.
LOTS of right wing stuff about what a hero she is.
And what I found did not come from DU. I’ve only ever been to DU once.
Google it yourself.
Chas thought you went nighty.
Ref Posted by: J R | December 11, 2007 at 09:43 PM
and you will be able to follow what I posted.
I always forget you need more footnotes than most.
Did you ears pop when you went over Colorado. Mine always do.
“Her faith has increased exponentially”
That’s another quote I found.
Apparently she is just a recent evangelical.
Say, Max? How’d you like my little jokes?
Side-splitting, isn’t it.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 11, 2007 at 09:33 PM
Your sense of humor is one good thing about you Capn.
I think I saved a post somewhere when you just cracked me up while insulting me.
Sometimes ya just gotta LAUGH and not take life so seriously.
The world does not continue to turn based on writers on this blog. Thank God for that.
Chas even posts some good jokes sometimes. He just needs to lighten up a bit, and take off that collar and breathe for awhile.
I hope even Chas laughed a little at Chasism.
If we all came up with little slang words to describe each other, then we’d save a whole lot of time postin insults to each other, and save time for some actual discussions.
Al Gore’s father was Senator Al Gore.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 11, 2007 at 09:45 PM
That’s what Al thought too, until the DNA results came in.
His last name should be Fudd.
Al Fudd.
Why would somebody else WANT to log in as me?Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 11, 2007 at 09:49 PM
Now THAT is a great point!
Well, all, JR was right on Target Check this out >>>
NOT from the DU — try WCCO.com
http://wcco.com/crime/colorado.shooting.security.2.608063.html
I knew there was something not right about this chick.Posted by: J R | December 11, 2007 at 09:46 PM
JR, when you get a little older, really, she is very attractive!
Get your eyes checked lately?
http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272617651.shtml
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3982607&page=1
JR my sincere apologies. I did look at you were right. See below:
“Fired Minneapolis Police officer Jeanne Assam suffered the extreme penalty for an offense far less than that committed by former President Bill Clinton. Clinton lied under oath about committing sex acts with Whitehouse Intern, Monica Lewinsky. Assam was fired and disgraced while Clinton went on to collect millions in speaking fees. I guess that does not say much for equality in America.”
The incident that cost Assam, a four year police veteran, her job involved a public transit bus driver. She was accused of cursing at him in an act of typical copper’s frustration. Understandable and really minor but she was accused of lying about what was said. The outcome derailed her chosen career. Being fired by a police agency is usually a bar to ever working as a cop again.
With the privacy laws today that information wouldn’t be made public but as you can see she did it. Forget equality though.
That was what I found Chas.
I bet they feature her at the Republican convention barring any further discoveries.
There wouldn’t have been a shooting if this building had put up the 10 Commandments. Or so I’m told from pundits referring to other shootings. Clearly this shooting is from other godless person in society that wasn’t raised in a Christian environment.
Well, it wasnt the swearing at the bus driver, but the lying and cover up attempt afterwards that got her fired. I believe that comes under insubordination…
Most places terminate for that…
Too bad she cant get another cop job! Probably has to settle for working for security companies, which isnt all bad money either!
Now, now, Ksgrm, lets not try to equate a police officer with the POTUS… no comparison there!!
However, Ksgrm, Bill Clinton was disbarred… which means he ALSO lost his livlihood for his lying. So, there is that little bit of comparison!!
I have a question for you Libs.
Why are you try to tear down a woman who saved other people’s life?
I and others could care less what the background of the woman is.
What kind of personal glory are you gaining for yourself by tearing down the reputation of this woman?
What’s in it for you?
She has done nothing to any of you.
Give this woman her time in the sun, she deserves thanks for saving lives.
I found more ksgrm but it is just listed as dismissed.
I already said that once, Kansas… Keep up now, old man!!
GMC, you are WRONG about carrying a gun in a car in Kansas. You CANNOT carry it in the glove compartment, console, or any other place accessable to the driver UNLESS you have a CCH. You are referring to Kansas’ “open-carry” (i.e. in plain view) law that allows one to carry a gun (like in a rack) that is plainly visible, unless superseded by local authorities. Wichita does, indeed prohibit open carry, on the person, or in the car. So if you’re in Wichita, you cannot carry your pistol on the seat next to you, as you could in rural KS. The only thing you can do as a non-CCH holder, is lock it in the trunk. This is the very reason why many get their CCH. Not to “pack,” but to be able to have in their car for emergencies.
I don’t think she will much enjoy her “time in the sun”.
Or her time in the son.
SHE is asking for this. She goes on all the shows.
I tell you there is something not right here. That was what I said from the first.
Zelda;
I believe you’re mistaken; the law does not prohibit same unless there is a local ordinance banning such carry. But I’ve been wrong before . . .
I’ve provided a statutory cite for my position. Do you have one?
God bless her. This woman proves beyond a doubt, the crap that Chas puts out about shooters blindly shooting.
Someone should take Chas to a range. Let him see, hear, and experience safe weapons employment.
DNFTT
AmWay — You make a HUGE bad assumption that I have never been to a shooting range… Doesnt get my testosterone flowing at all… I dont care for it… Dont like guns… never have…
Going to a shooting range doesnt change my opinion of CC laws in the least… I realize it’s legal, but that doesnt mean I have to LIKE it!! NOR does it mean you need to attack me for NOT liking it!!
Look how some of you act when those of us here remind you that abortion is LEGAL too!!
Same difference, dude!!
I don’t see how anyone can stand to carry a hand gun on their body. Got to be a pain in the ass, carrying a gun on you, I get sick of carrying my cell phone, my keys, and my wallet.
I like shooting for target practice though, just for the sport of it, its fun.
GMC, you asked, and it took me a while to get you the answers. We went over this a lot during CCH class. First, here’s the link:http://www.wichita.gov/CityCode/Default.htm?code=1487Section 1, City of Wichita Code 588.010, para (1)f specifically makes it illegal to have a loaded gun within the “immediate control” of the driver. That has been interpreted to mean wherever he/she can reach while driving, i.e. console, glove compartment, etc. Thanks to the passage of the CCH provisions, if you read further down, (sub-para (6) ) all these prohibitions are not applicable to CCH holders. Again, we sat through an 8-hour course on this stuff. No cch? in the trunk. (discussion point about pickups, etc… the answer was “way in back where a driver can’t reach it” to remove from the confines of “immediate control.”
CCH? inside the vehicle anywhere is ok. (note: for the cch holder only. Don’t leave that thing in the glove compartment when your spouse takes the car!)
Oops, used screen name Harold instead of Zelda. Now you know both of us! LOL
GMC, my original assertion was Kansas, and my response was Wichita. Sorry about the mix-up. Wichita is pretty clear. The state of Kansas allows “open carry, except where prohibited.” So the crux of your question, is a glove compartment open or concealed carry in the larger part of Kansas? (Excluding Wichita, Topeka, etc) As I read it, “open carry” means in plain view, and “concealed carry” means not visible. At least Wichita has defined it. I would not want to pay the legal team’s fees to defend myself regarding a loaded gun in the glove compartment without a cch. For the record, I’ll keep digging!
The Second Amendment does guarantee the right to bear arms, but it does not specify WHICH arms. The First Amendment has certain limitations (you can’t yell “Fire!” in a crowded theater, you can’t libel or slander someone, etc.) so why can’t certain limitations be applied to the Second Amendment? Somebody give me a compelling reason why any civilian needs an assault rifle. The “hunting” argument is absurd; what are you going to do – empty 30 7.62mm rounds into a deer? The home-defense argument is equally preposterous; ask any gun-shop owner or CC trainer and you’ll get the same answer: a (”sawed-off”) 12-gauge. I can see some valid argument for handguns, but still in limited cases. If you’re going to make the case for assault weapons as part of some kind of defense-readiness against the government, then you have to employ the militia clause for that argument to hold any water, and even then, it’s pretty tenuous. Also, to me, the incident in Colorado makes a good argument against random CC; Assam had extensive and specific training. I don’t really have a problem with CC as long as the training is sufficient, but the anti-gun-control folks always seem to squawk so loudly against anything that smacks at all of any kind of registration….
The Second Amendment does guarantee the right to bear arms, but it does not specify WHICH arms. The First Amendment has certain limitations (you can’t yell “Fire!” in a crowded theater, you can’t libel or slander someone, etc.) so why can’t certain limitations be applied to the Second Amendment? Somebody give me a compelling reason why any civilian needs an assault rifle. The “hunting” argument is absurd; what are you going to do – empty 30 7.62mm rounds into a deer? The home-defense argument is equally preposterous; ask any gun-shop owner or CC trainer and you’ll get the same answer: a (”sawed-off”) 12-gauge. I can see some valid argument for handguns, but still in limited cases. If you’re going to make the case for assault weapons as part of some kind of defense-readiness against the government, then you have to employ the militia clause for that argument to hold any water, and even then, it’s pretty tenuous. Also, to me, the incident in Colorado makes a good argument against random CC; Assam had extensive and specific training. I don’t really have a problem with CC as long as the training is sufficient, but the anti-gun-control folks always seem to squawk so loudly against anything that smacks at all of any kind of registration….
TC
How old are you? Remember the riots in LA after the Rodney King beating trial? Several store owners in the midst of the chaos prevented their businesses from being looted and burned. The tool they used? What you call “assault rifles”.
Also see my 6:46 pm post.(read all of it)
“Ban them and there will still be crazy people shooting up schools and malls and churches. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO BLAME IT ON THEN? What will you try to ban NEXT?”
Zelda Harold
The state wide requirement is that the weapon must be in a fully enclosed container and unloaded. It does not state where the weapon must be kept. It also does not state where the ammo must be kept.
That is State wide, preempts all local regs.
I’ve lived 63yrs and never felt the need to pack heat. It must be awful to spend your lives in that much fear!
Jed
Some folks live in fear, some live with their head in the sand. I choose to live with my head up and my eyes open.
Hey Jed. Guess the students of Columbine will never feel it either, eh?
The truth is she didn’t “bring him down”..he shot and killed himself.
I wonder how long it will be before the Eagle and the gun nuts aknowledge the facts.
Pretending that CC laws will deter people with easy access to high powered weapons who are intent on killing others along with themsleves is trying to provide a false sense of security and give more clout to those who are against any form of gun control.
It is truley sad when things like these public shootings happen. The police can only be responders while the public itself usually has no recoarse but to try to save their own lives by hiding and praying that the poor underdeveloped soul with the gun won’t shoot them. We have become a nation, nay, a world of cattle who rely on our “government agencies” to protect us from all evils that wish us harm. The only one who can protect you at the moment is yourself by any means allowed by the powers that be. If the day came for me to decide if I must hide or run to save myself or stand and try to stop one of these poor souls who has nothing better to do with their life than killing as many others as they can before turning thier weapon upon themself, I hope I have the mindframe to try to stop him(or her) by whatever means available to me at the moment.
Mary
Wrong again. She shot him multiple times. He went down. He shot himself. GET IT STRAIGHT!!
I seem to recall that she wounded him and then he finished himself off. So, that would mean that she ‘brought him down’.
In other news, six kids shot getting off a bus in las vegas by two other youths. If the kids on the bush had cc, this might not have happened, right?