The CIA destroyed videotapes that reportedly showed its agents using harsh and possibly illegal interrogation techniques on terrorism suspects. But in doing so, the CIA likely is in even bigger trouble, because it withheld and destroyed evidence sought in criminal and fact-finding investigations. The CIA destroyed the tapes after telling a federal judge that they didn’t exist, and it also didn’t provide the tapes or acknowledge their existence to the Sept. 11 commission, which had requested transcripts and other documentary evidence taken from interrogations of agency prisoners.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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92 Comments
It’s OK to out a covert operative. But we must protect the identities of out torturers.
Let’s just ask Robert Novak who they are.
Phillip, has anyone called Sen. Roberts for a statement verifying that the SIC was informed of the agencies intention to destroy the video tapes. Since he is running for Senate again, I think Kansans would want to know if the cover up had his blessing.
So the so-called conservatives admit that a private document in the hands of the government is at great risk of being made public.
I’m glad y’all are finally catching on.
Now – what’s that I keep hearing about women’s private medical records? You want them to stay out of government hands you say?
Glad to hear it.
Have a nice day.
I’m betting the torturers were hooded for their own protection and to instill more fear into the torturee.
If the tapes are not safe in CIA custody, all our intelligence keeping is a joke.
The millions of e-mails that the Bush administration was court ordered to keep were probably deleted for the same purposes, to hide criminal activity.
Too bad they couldn’t just create some technology that would be able to put fuzzy pixels or a big blue dot over the faces of the agents. I guess that technology is decades away.
MAY have obstructed justice? MAY have? That’s what this administration is best at — breaking the law and then making sure they evade justice!
And something has to be DESTROYED to keep it from becoming public? Just more proof of incompetence!
“The tapes were destroyed in part because officers were concerned that video showing harsh interrogation methods could expose agency officials to legal risks, several officials said.”
Well, that sure sounds like destroying evidence to me. Just because they’re the government doesn’t put them above the law.
Republican or Democrat, we all need to be worried when a government agency distroys evidence. It doesn’t bode well for the republic.
Who can say for sure what was on the tapes, now?
So they had to destroy them to keep Al-Qaeda from seeing them. Riight.
But they DID inform Congress, right? Uhmm, well. . .********************************Rep. Jane Harman of California, then the senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, was one of only four members of Congress in 2003 informed of the tapes’ existence and the CIA’s intention to ultimately destroy them.
“I told the CIA that destroying videotapes of interrogations was a bad idea and urged them in writing not to do it,” Harman said. While key lawmakers were briefed on the CIA’s intention to destroy the tapes, they were not notified two years later when the spy agency went through with the plan. Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., said the committee only learned of the tapes’ destruction in November 2006.
Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., who was chairman of the House Intelligence Committee from August 2004 until the end of 2006, said through a spokesman that he doesn’t remember being informed of the videotaping program.
“Congressman Hoekstra does not recall ever being told of the existence or destruction of these tapes,” said Jamal D. Ware, senior adviser to the committee. “He believes that Director Hayden is being generous in his claim that the committee was informed. He believes the committee should have been fully briefed and consulted on how this was handled.”*******************http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hyL3au-RZxEcch2P9ymXaJ9mroogD8TCGKH00
Rage that is why there should at least be some level of curriosity in whether the then Chairman of the SIC (Sen. Roberts), was notified, and what his reaction was.Also, was that the House Intelligence committee that Tiahrt served on? If so, he should be questioned by the local media.
One of the mysteries of Watergate was why Richard Nixon didn’t burn the tapes.
It’s also the lesson the Republic Party took into its heart. Cover-up. Lie. Destroy evidence.
Which would you rather face: Charges that you’ve committed crimes against humanity by torturing prisoners? Or “obstruction of justice?”
Prediction:This is an overheated, over hyped issue and it will blow over.
Actually, Dems look pretty ridiculous here. Plame was a desk jockey who parked her car in a CIA lot. Everyone knew she was with the CIA. Plame happens to be a Bush-hating leftist, so the Dems go nuts when she is, rightly, criticized. (Not outed).
Now, with REAL covert agents being involved with real terrorists, the Left is upset that they can’t get their hands on “evidence” to trash Bush. — Even if it means our truly covert agents get killed!
Heh, indeed, Phantom. Roberts’ silence on this is deafening.
. . .and P-Con remains in his own little world, where “facts” are exactly what he’d like them to be.
SSDD.
A valuable lesson, that.
Thanks for dragging out the “Flavor of the Month” argument.BTW, I don’t hear Anyone advocating the tapes be turned over to the media for dissemination, however a ‘redacted’ copy, could prove entertaining for the sadist amongst us.
The fact that the tapes were destroyed speaks volumes about their content, just like Nixon’s 18 1/2 minutes of erased tapes. Maybe these will have the same results!
Paul – perhaps Plame has good eason to hate Bush – after all it was HIS cronies wh outed her. And your BS claim that she was not important is contradicted by CIA professionals.
Oh, I forgot – they are all commies too.
BenNobody was charged with “outing” Plame, remember?
Also, Plame has lied repeatedly. So has Wilson. They are both completely politicized.
Together, they have lied about:
Who “sent” Wilson to Niger.
Forged documents (Wilson admitted he had never seen them and “misspoke” in mentioning them at all.”
Whether Saddam tried to buy Uranium from Niger.
What Wilson said in his oral (not written) report to the CIA.
The State Department and our intelligence agencies are completely poisoned and politicized. Wilson and Plame, and now Dr. Fingar, of NIE fame, have proved that point.
Pall,”Nobody was charged with “outing” Plame, remember?”
Since the people who would file the charges were the ones who did it, does anybody really expect them to prosecute themselves?
This was the quote that caught my eye in the linked article. And isn’t this truly the point?!?
“Millions of documents in C.I.A. archives, if leaked, would identify C.I.A. officers,” Mr. Malinowski said. “The only difference here is that these tapes portray potentially criminal activity. They must have understood that if people saw these tapes, they would consider them to show acts of torture, which is a felony offense.”
Paul – a number of people in the Bush administration were invlved in the deliberate malicious outing. Thing is, as noted, it would have had to be that same administration to bring charges.
Meanwhile I hear on the news that Blackwater’s man at the State Department Inspector General’s office has resigned. This Blackwater-connected official was the guy in charge of investigating Blackwater.
Typical of this administration to have a Blackwater person investigating Blackwater. Just like having people connected with the CIA leakers in charge of THAT investigation.
Didn’t Bush say he would fire anyone involved? Instead, he pardons the guy convicted in the coverup.
“…the Left is upset that they can’t get their hands on ‘evidence’ to trash Bush.”
They shouldn’t bother. 4,000+ dead, tens of thousands of wounded, and billions upon billions of wasted dollars later, Bush has certainly trashed himself.
The latest Flavor of the Month is going to leave a bad taste in alot of folks mouths for a long time!http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071207/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/cia_videotapes_48
It’s a shame that the resources of the country’s leaders are necessarilly investigating the corrupt Admin.!http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071207/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/cia_videotapes_48
We’ll see what MuCaskey is made of? I hope he’s not another spineless bush yes man.
” White House: Bush had no knowledge of CIA tapes ”
Not surprising. Heavy cocaine use coupled with heavy drinking can cause serious lapses in memory.
Yet again, the Bush defense is “I have no clue what’s going on in Cheney’s administration”
IF the WHOLE story is as the Times reports it (that’s a bit of a reach, to be sure, but we’ll see), I won’t defend this. I won’t even try.
I have my suspicions, of course, that this is not the whole story. The CIA being the CIA, we may never know the whole story.
So, who is getting away with posting and not using a nic, and HOW are they doing it?? Hmmmm
This calls for a Senate investigation at the very least.
BenThere was an independent counsel appointed, remember?Libby went to trial because of his statements, alone, not because of anyone “outing” Plame.
Now, with REAL covert agents being involved with real terrorists, the Left is upset that they can’t get their hands on “evidence” to trash Bush. — Even if it means our truly covert agents get killed!
Posted by: Econ101 | December 07, 2007 at 03:23 PM
What a steaming pile of hypocracy.
And that ‘independant counsel’ was constrained by the administration in what he could do. And then, with a conviction, he might have had an opportunity to get Libby to turn ’state’s evidence’. That is why Bush pardoned him.
And Bush could have his minions stonewall and issue pardons for anyone caught.
Clinton is the one with a hitory of giving pardons to those who will not testify, and are found in contempt of court.
Remember Susan McDougal?
Pardoned by Clinton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardons_controversy#See_also
Bill Clinton is not running for President.
This is curtains for Hickabee.
Wrong thread.
Actually, this COULD be curtains for Hickabee, or any of the GOP candidates.
They’ll need to be in track shoes to get far enough away from bush.
BILL CLINTON!
BILL CLINTON!
MONICA!
BLUE DRESS!
Well, that takes care of anything we ever have to worry about with a Republic office-holder!
Thanks for not posting with a nic-name. No-nic.
Makes it easier to know who to ignore . . .
Meanwhile, at Bush’s State Department:
WASHINGTON — Embattled State Department Inspector General Howard Krongard submitted his resignation Friday, forced out for allegedly impeding ongoing criminal investigations into the construction of a new, $740 million U.S. Embassy in Baghdad and security firm Blackwater Worldwide.
A State Department official said that Krongard had become a political liability, and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, through aides, asked him this week to leave. The official insisted on anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to speak about personnel matters.
An abrasive attorney who once reportedly referred to himself as an “equal-opportunity abuser,” Krongard came under fire from his own investigators and from a congressional panel for allegedly blocking probes into serious claims of wrongdoing in Iraq.
Those allegations include contract fraud and shoddy workmanship in the troubled Baghdad embassy and arms smuggling by North Carolina-based Blackwater.
Krongard initially vowed to fight the accusations against him. But his position collapsed at a House of Representatives hearing last month when he was asked whether his brother, former top CIA official Alvin “Buzzy” Krongard, had accepted a position on a Blackwater advisory board. Krongard first denounced what he said were “ugly rumors,” then, after telephoning his brother, reversed himself.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/22736.html
The CIA cannot break the law. They ARE the law! (with the help of Bush and the Republicans)
The Rightie Tighties are all in an uproar over a corrupt CIA is now exposed like a toothache with a raw nerve!!
No-name has no brain and no balls. Typical Repuke.
no nic no guts.
We all know it’s “kansas”
It doesn’t matter who the “no name” poster is. S/he hasn’t posted anything of interest. Is this a poster you look forward to reading? One you would like to know better? One you think you may learn something from? My answer to each question is a resounding, “NO!”
I agree, Ben, JR, and Linda… just wondered how they manage to pull it off… since the Blog requires a “Nic” to post… Hmmmm
Actually, JR, we dont know that for any certainty…
Well, its late anyway…
Good night; Good luck; and God bless; whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings all!!
MERRY XRMAS
It is downright UNBELIEVABLE to me that you REICH WINGERS defend destroying evidence by our government. You are so unamerican, I hope you MOVE to IRAN where you can live like you want to.
Just noticed this:
“Bill Clinton is not running for President.”
Actually, he is; does anyone think Hillary! would be anywhere near where she is without years of “standing by her man?” And who are we kidding; for many, many Hillary! supporters, what they are really voting for is Bill.
Just be up front about it; an end run on the 22nd Amendment.
A case of two heads are better than one, especially if the one you currently have is empty.
Too funny, Phantom… But I am really getting sick and tired of hearing all republicans, all the time, trying to pass off anything — ANYthing — corrupt on the Right Wing side, by saying its all Cointon’s fault!! Geez…
When I was a kid, all I heard was that it was all Roosevelt’s fault … Until I got old enough to read for myself, and find out that it really wasnt all Roosevelt’s fault!!
“IF the WHOLE story is as the Times reports it (that’s a bit of a reach, to be sure, but we’ll see), I won’t defend this. I won’t even try.”I applaud your position, if you follow through.I must admit however, I have seen these kind of statements by bush supporters repeatedly on another blog I frequent, only to later see the poster rationalize all of the following evidence.
Harriet Myers knew about the CIA tape destruction, when she was Counsel to the President… Just saw that on MSNBC… Looks like the cover-up ran to pretty high places!!
So now we’re to presume bush’s chief counsel would withhold that information from the pres.?
That was the gist of the news report, Phantom!!
So Congress was informed, but not the libel news media. Well guess what; I don’t trust either bunch to keep a secret.
Do we have people in high places who can’t figure out how identities are hidden, kept secret WITHOUT destroying the entire record. I doubt it! But destroying and then using ‘protecting agents’ as the excuse does exactly what they intended — DESTROYS THE EVIDENCE!
And the 28 percenters continue to believe every excuse fed to them.
The faces of and CIA officials and the audio of their voices could have EASILY have been disguised on these torture tapes.
The tapes were destroyed for what was on them not who.
I’m thinking that if I were going to do something questionable, I probably wouldn’t videotape it.
Guess I’m not qualified to be CIA.
I will have to remember if ever charged with a capital offense the way to get out if it is to bring up some other capital offense that has nothing what so ever to do with the capital offense I have committed. Get everyone rehashing a long dead capital offense so no one is actually talking about my capital offense. And there by my capital offense is forgotten about! But wait, there could be some evidence that the court would feel they need to see! Damn court, that evidence by my judgment has nothing to do with anything illegal and that is the opinion of my friend who was with me that night! What how dire anyone say my friend is not trustworthy. That they want to see for themselves just to make sure it was not illegal! My friend who I have picked to judge my actions and whether they are illegal or not. Well I have destroy the evidence so the court will just have to take my friend’s word for whether it was legal or not! THAT IS THE COMMUNIST (I mean) AMERICAN WAY!
The CIA probably didn’t want the tapes ending up leaked by Congress to the NY Times and ending up on their sister news org. (Al Jazeera)
Actually I like the idea that terrorists DON’T KNOW our interrogation techniques so therefore cannot train to defeat them. There is a reason why we have the CIA and it isn’t to play nice or be friendly and open. They are secret because we NEED them to be secret.
I’ve got a very good idea that 95 percent of the people don’t REALLY want to know what the CIA has been up to in the past 50 years. I believe that they would rather the CIA continue doing whatever they are doing to keep us safe and AHEAD of our enemies or those that want to destroy us.
I will repeat: The Bush White House was watching the tapes for entertainment. You’ll see. I’m always right.
Is anyone else amazed at how far fetched the excuses the 28 percenters come up with are?? Comic relief?
If the terrorist knew our interrogation techniques, of course they would counter tmen making them ineffective by learning how to breathe out of their asses!
tmen=them
And, SOME agents identify doesn’t need to be protected ’cause of course they weren’t really covert anyway and…
identity
“by learning how to breathe out of their asses!”
Man, you make it tough, Phantom, you make it hard not to make a smart-alec remark when you throw a softball out there like that. Angel v devil, angel v devil… OK, angel wins this time.
Please be more careful in the future.
I think I repeated something. I think I repeated something.
The 28%ers that have become isolated and irrelevant.
You mean like the 30%ers who think that evolution criticisms shouldn’t be taught in public school?
Ya gotta love how the 28% ers are whistling zippity doodah on their way into political obscurity for the next 40 years.
Trollboy is still confused about what make him a troll. It’s not the nic-switching, although that’s certainly part of it. It’s his lies, his threats, his pretense to knowledge on every. single. subject posted, his constant picking of fights on the blog. Others may feel free to add to this list; it’s certainly not complete.
I don’t really care about nic-switching (nic-stealing is another thing) or inflamatory comments or ad homs and stuff. They’re the nature of the beast.
However, we could save a lot of WEBlog’s bandwidth if we merely combined the right wing-nut posters such as “Kansas” and “ksgrm” and “Econ101″ and “GMC70″ and “Hank” and Nathan, etc. into one nym.
And one post that reads:
“Everything the Republic Party is righteous and good and ordained by the “christian” God and everything the Democrats say is the spawn of Satan.”
After more thought on these tapes, I have been wondering if it isnt so much WHO is on the tapes, as WHAT is on the tapes?? Like, just maybe, they killed somebody with waterboarding, and dont want that seen by Congress?? Or something of a similar nature??
Just a thought??
Uh Oh the Blog will never be able to reproduce now… we have dueling blanks, and its shooting blanks as well!! LOL
Is it nic stealing when a non existent nic is used by more than one? There is nothing there so does that mean nothing was stolen? What a conundrum!
I try to see nothing just as the poster indicates s/he wants to be. It would make it easier to see nothing if the post followed the “Posted by____,” instead of the other way ’round. That way I would see that nothing was posting and skip over the nothing without reading a single word. ;-)
However, we could save a lot of WEBlog’s bandwidth if we merely combined the right wing-nut posters such as “Kansas” and “ksgrm” and “Econ101″ and “GMC70″ and “Hank” and Nathan, etc. into one nym.
And one post that reads:
“Everything the Republic Party is righteous and good and ordained by the “christian” God and everything the Democrats say is the spawn of Satan.”
Posted by: MonkeyHawk | December 08, 2007 at 11:43 AM
Monkey when you think you and the other libs demonstate diversity just ask me and I will post you a selection of ‘opinions’ from the left.
Oh wait you did all post under JM and that went over like a lead balloon because no one could believe that someone with such stupid opinions actually existed. But sure enough they did.
So I guess we’ll just go on posting under our own nics – I always have- and battle over whose opinion is right and who is wrong. That is what this blog is for after all.
A completely left leaning or right leaning blog is boooooring. Just go to the alternative blog to see.
Hmmm, interesting diversions going on here.
A completely left leaning or right leaning blog is boooooring. Just go to the alternative blog to see.
Posted by: ksgrm | December 08, 2007 at 04:03 PM
———————–
There is hardly ever any talk of anything controversial, friends who keep in touch and care about one another always find subjects to discuss. We support each person as an individual, laugh together, bounce ideas off one another, learn, and generally enjoy relaxing with friends. Everyone is welcome and certainly no one is forced to be someplace they wouldn’t enjoy. But no one would judge another for what they want to say or where they want to say it. We would even make you feel welcome if you didn’t find our company so “boooooring.” ;-)
We never intended our place to be an alternative to this place. We did want a civil atmosphere and that’s what we made.
If any one of us would like an argument I suppose we could always find one here or many other places. Finding friends to talk with isn’t that readily available.
Nobody told me about that place, Linda :-(
Interesting opinion of Mr. Brownlee, and after reading all these comments, you’d probably be suprised that I’m GLAD CIA destroyed the evidence, I HOPE they got ALL the information they wanted from our ENEMIES, and I hope they used it to SAVE some of our ungrateful LIVES!
There doesnt appear to be a 5:39 post LOL
“Pepper” –
Considering the effectiveness of George WMD Bush’s administration in finding Osama bin Laden, giving “mister terrorist” a teddy bear couldn’t be any more futile.
Pelosi and other Dems knew about “waterboarding” in 2002, and they supported the CIA at that time:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/08/AR2007120801664.html?hpid=topnews
The Real Reason they Destroyed the Torture Tapes: Bush was done masturbating to them.