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309 Comments
I got one of those robo-calls yesterday. I thought they were accusing Morrison of being a child molester, not a child killer. I erased it, so I can’t recheck it.
Kansas - I was wondering if anyone else had gotten one. My best friend just called me this morning to tell me she got one of the calls I had told her about.
We have an adversarial system, in the country.
Adversarial systems require adversaries.
If everyone in politics liked each other, it would be even more corrupt.
If Kline, or Klines “special prosecutor” find anything criminal against Morrison, that evidence will go to a Grand Jury, I believe, then to a Trial Court.
The Jury and the Judge need to be “impartial” — however, I EXPECT the prosecutor to be very biased against criminal activity.
By the way, the chances are very high that the Federal Government, through the US Attorney’s Office, might step in, here. Assuming that the charges are valid, there is a Federal case, as well.
I guess this is what the call was about. I guess Kline is not letting this opportunity slide.
http://70.166.25.138/fairtrialsinamerica/karbino.php
Posted by: TDT | December 12, 2007 at 11:25 AM
I guess I had gotten that robocall the week before and didn’t know it was the same guy.
It started of with Bumble Bee something or other and I just hung up on it as it was a recorded message.
Paul - the problem is that we have gone beyond adversarial to enemies. THAT can destroy the system. Unfortunately it appears that both sides have done this.
In fairness to Kline, I believe Kline has asked for these phone calls to stop.I get them, too.Way too much information, in the phone call and on the Web page.This bunch does a very poor job “connecting the dots”.
Try the “inverted pyramid” style, folks!
Don’t “bury the punch line” — give us the Who What When Where and Why and How in the first couple of paragraphs.
The last paragraph should be the least important.
Nobody wants to read all of that stuff.
Even if there is a real crime here, or real abuse, it reads like a John Birch Society or Michael Moore conspiracy theory.
Makes me doubt the message, if the abused party can’t find someone to help the messenger.
I don’t like Morrison, but baseless charges against him will only make him look better, in the end.
That is what happened with Clinton. The guy was a sleazeball, but he learned to knock down the lesser or harder to prove charges, then claimed “innocence” for everything.
Oh, and Clinton also taught the Democrats to turn every ethical scandal into a sex scandal.
Is all of this within Kline’s jurisdiction?
I’m a bit confused. Can someone explain what the phone calls are about? Sometimes having an unlisted number keeps one out of the loop.
I don’t think even Kline would be involved in this crazy fairtrials business.
Rox - the allegations are indeed within Kline’s jurisdiction in that the alleged events took plave in Johnson County and in that office. That said, however, Kline should not be in charge of the investigation due to conflict of interest. That is why I would like to see a REAL independent investigation into the allegations.
The phone calls and this ‘bumblebee’ website simply seem to be a bunch of nutjobs. Different issue entirely.
Just wondering why, TDT, you keep posting the bumblebee’s website and linking Kline with it? The site is critical of Kline and Morrison.
You should look at it before you embarrass yourself. Futher.
I’m a bit confused. Can someone explain what the phone calls are about? Sometimes having an unlisted number keeps one out of the loop.
Posted by: Rox | December 14, 2007 at 11:49 AM
Rox, this is the dude who is doing it. He has some sort of an agenda against Morrison.
http://70.166.25.138/fairtrialsinamerica/karbino.php
I think he might be in trouble with the Robo-Calls, but not sure, will have to find out.
Rox,the call capitolizes on Morrison’s current scandel to introduce the case that is described in the link posted by TDT at 11:32 A.M.
The whole thing sounds like a very crazy juvenile court case. The either 14 or 19 year old wife is being held (illegally according to the husband) by the Kaw Valley Center - which is one of the sub-contractors that provides SRS services in Kansas. The husband is blaming Morrison for the “false imprisonment”. There is also something about the father trying to stop an illegal abortion and he was thwarted in that effort - which is from where the charges of child killing emerge, I guess.
The message on the web page is pretty convoluted as others have commented on.
Thanks, Ben and Kansas. Appears to be a mess.
I agree that Kline shouldn’t be involved, considering. If an unbiased investigation shows Morrison in the wrong, actions should be taken.
Adultery is a Class C misdemeanor? Wow! That would make over half the men in this country criminals, and a goodly amount of the women, too. Wish I’d known. I could’ve used this info.
Thanks, Steven, I’ll have to try to catch up. I guess I can do that when the big snow hits later. ;)
Rox - the real issue is not the adultery but rather the allegation that Morrison tried to get her to do things to undermine the office. THAT is the serious issue IMO. And, IF TRUE, should result in removal and probably prosecution of Morrison.
On the other hand, if all there is is the ‘fooling around’ I would give Morrison’s wife Lorena Bobbit’s knife and be done with it.
Yes, Ben. I agree about an investigation. It just surprised me about the misdemeanor thing.
Okay, I skimmed over the fairtrials webpage and noticed that there is a lack of real information. Too many questions left unanswered. There are ways for a father to stop an abortion, all legal and on the up and up. Calling 911 is not one of them.
Kansas would be better off if they just made a pact that both would resign, save the ks. citizens some money. Kline could feel smug, since he’ll soon be out of political office soon anyway, having taken his arch enemy with him.We really don’t need these childish shenanigans.
Morrison will resign today at 3pm.
Now, all we need is for Kline to have the decency to do the same!
http://www.veoh.com/videos/e70603qy9gCWz4
You can call me Al song - Neil Simon :)
try Paul Simon. the video is a classic….with Chevy Chase making goofy faces while Paul sings.
KNSS says Morrison will “Make a Statement” at a news conference, scheduled for 3:00 PM.
We shall see.
If he DOES resign, this is probably more than sex.
Unless, of course, Mrs. Morrison put her foot down.
Carter confided to Kline about affairBy Chris Green and Sarah Kessinger -
Harris News Service TOPEKA -
A woman revealed details about her extramarital affair with state Attorney General Paul Morrison to her boss, Johnson County District Attorney Phill Kline, before the relationship became public earlier this week.
Linda Carter made a full disclosure of her past relationship with Morrison on Oct. 23 to Kline and one of his top deputies, Senior Deputy District Attorney Stephen Maxwell, according to a document from Kline’s office obtained by Harris News Service.
Kline and Maxwell may have been tipped off about the affair several months before Carter’s meeting with them, which came after she claims to have admonished Morrison to make peace with Kline, whom Morrison defeated in a battle for the state AG’s office.
Carter had worked for Morrison during part of his 18-year tenure as Johnson County district attorney, but she stayed on to work as director of administration for Kline after the bitter rivals swapped jobs earlier this year.
Thomas D. Williams, an investigator from Kline’s office, along with a court reporter took sworn testimony at a “discreet location” from Carter on Nov. 1, according to her documented testimony to Williams.
The statement was taken in the presence of Shawna Chambless, another employee in the office.
The Topeka Capital-Journal reported Sunday that Carter’s sexual harassment complaint against Morrison was forwarded seven days later to the federal Equal Opportunity Employment Commission. Carter signed a statement Nov. 16 based on her testimony to Williams, which became an investigative report that detailed her allegations that Morrison sexually harassed her and attempted to meddle in legal matters involving Kline’s office.
Morrison has acknowledged the affair but denies allegations of criminal or professional wrongdoing.
Carter ended up leaving her job in Kline’s office Nov. 30 and could not be reached for comment through her attorney, Brian Russell.
Information contained in the investigative report since has found its way to the press, first in a Topeka Capital-Journal story published Sunday, which cited a signed statement from Carter. However, the newspaper did not reveal how it obtained her statement or who provided it.
Since then, media outlets across the state have published stories based on information contained in the newspaper’s report.
The copy of Carter’s sworn statement obtained by Harris News Service is written in third person and includes details mentioned in the Capital-Journal’s report on Morrison’s romance with Carter. Both were married during the affair and have not divorced.
Morrison spokeswoman Ashley Anstaett said Morrison’s office has not seen Carter’s statement but questioned its validity if it had been taken by Kline’s office.
“I have my doubts it would have credibility,” Anstaett said.
Brian Burgess, a spokesman for Kline, did not return repeated phone calls from Harris News Service this week, although a secretary indicated he was in the office Thursday.
Political assault?
In the report, Carter also alleges that Morrison made repeated telephone calls that included threats to bad-mouth her to prospective employers after she disclosed the relationship to Kline, a claim which Morrison denied Thursday.
It also indicates that Morrison called Carter’s cellular phone on Oct. 31 and “threatened to destroy” Carter’s job in Arkansas if she did not answer Morrison’s questions.
She indicated that 22 phone calls came from Morrison that day, “four of which were answered by Carter and overhead by Chambless and Maxwell.”
Morrison threatened that he would tell the prospective employer that Carter was a “monster, (expletive) sociopath, liar, (expletive) and bad manager.”
Kline was given permission by Johnson County commissioners Thursday to hire a special prosecutor to investigate blackmail and harassment, the same day that Morrison’s spokeswoman said the attorney general had hired an outside lawyer to represent him.
“I take full responsibility for my personal failings and once again apologize to all of the people across Kansas that I have let down,” Morrison said in a written statement Thursday. “There is no doubt, however, that all accusations of official or criminal wrongdoing are false and part of a political assault against me waged for partisan gain.”
Overland Park attorney Nick Badgerow will represent Morrison in an independent investigation of his professional conduct by the state’s attorney disciplinary office. Badgerow will also represent his client on the federal complaint.
Anonymous letter
Although Carter first provided all the details about her relationship with Morrison to Kline in October, Kline and his top deputy may have learned about the affair several months earlier.
In her statement, Carter said that in July Morrison called her to relay information that Kline had received an anonymous letter about their affair in March. Carter said she told Morrison that she doubted the letter’s existencex because she’d not heard of it. She said she assumed Kline would fire her if there were an actual letter.
A few days later, Morrison called Carter again to say that a former assistant district attorney had heard a letter had been sent to the district attorney’s office in March and eventually was turned over to Kline.
After receiving Morrison’s second call, Carter called Kline, according to her statement, and asked whether he had received a letter in March. Kline replied that he’d only read the first paragraph before making a conscious decision to read nothing further.
He then turned the letter over to Maxwell, who still had the letter, Carter stated.
“Morrison immediately blamed Carter for the letter since Morrison always relied on Carter’s judgment to maintain the integrity (secrecy) (sic) of their affair,” her statement read.
Morrison also told her that Kline would hold a press conference about the letter to destroy him. Carter’s statement indicates she assured Morrison that Kline had the letter since March and would not do anything to harm Carter.
The facts are getting a little easier to follow-
try Paul Simon. the video is a classic….with Chevy Chase making goofy faces while Paul sings.
Posted by: call me Al | December 14, 2007 at 01:01 PM
oops, yeah Paul Simon, I guess I had Neil Simon the playwright on my mind for some reason.
Sounds like Kline is bitter about getting his ass whupped by Morrison so he’s doing this little investigation for revenge. Typical petty fundies.
Kline could care less if he ruined the adultress’ reputation and future prospects, for a little revenge. Petty indeed.
I suspect that his news conference is going to be his resignation.
TomThe rule of thumb is: “Don’t call a press conference unless you have something to say”.
Since he would not be likely to want to discuss a pending case, in public — what the heck is going to say?
Lets hope it is not Morrison setting up a investigation of Kline.
It’s Friday afternoon….bad news always breaks on Friday afternoon.I suspect Morrison cannot control his pecker nor his anger, which triggered little miss 10-key to sell him out.
Tell me, after reading the lengthy blog above…just how weak and cowardly a woman is Ms. Carter? This sick twisted person took Morrison down…then quit her job. What an awful awful person. She deserves a post-birth abortion.
“…just how weak and cowardly a woman is Ms. Carter?”
Regardless on whom you support (Kline or Morrisi), or if it is neither of them like me -
We should not be quick to shoot the messenger. We need whistle blowers in government.
But maybe I am expecting too much.
I imagine after she made her ‘confession’ with Kline she was given two options, Quit, or get Fired!
Well some of you got your wish.
Morrison is resigning.
At least HE didn’t get kicked out of office like Kline.
I guess this disqualifies a whole lotta people for public office. I’m bookmarking the thread to see how consistent some of the Morrison bashers remain.
Careful, Kline will probably get appointed back to the AG Office because Governor Sebelius refuses to follow the Kansas Citizens wishes. Keep up on this or we will get nailed twice. SEnator Craig quit and said he was innocent. He is still in Office. This wide stance, give me time , I back and you cannot stop me, B.S. is B.S.!!!! He is waiting for the State Senate and House to go back to session and get a commuted sentence. They cannot act while they are not in session. Herbert West III Publisher/Journalist, west.herb@yahoo.com
Perhaps Mr. Kline could appoint the Tiller special prosecutor that Morrison fired on his first day in office to look into this. It woulld appear that mr. Morrison’s many indescretions may have affected his apparent notion that having an aboution Dr, around might be a handy thing.
This is bull. She’s claiming sexual harassment AFTER a two year affair. Come ON. And this whole thing reeks to high hell. To go to his arch enemy because he didn’t leave his wife for her, that’s just so so low.
And Justice and Comment Tator, something is so very wrong with your thinking…no I don’t need to submit to anyone. I was given free will and I plan to use it.And Tator, you’re out there man.
P mom,
What are you talking about?
many sexual harassment charges are made far into the affair. It would not have been easy for mrs. Carter to have aired those complaints while Morrison was her boss, at least two other former employees did that and were dismissed due to “lack of evidence.” Morrison, as her direct supervisor, had leverage that kept her right where he wanted her, and it was partially human nature for her to think that while she was the imagined center of his attention that there was a relationship there. Only after some time of detachment does the victim often realize the extent of manipulation that has occurred, and that is when the complaint is most likely to occur. Anita Hill’s complaint against Clarence is an example of this, as is Monica Lewinski’s sudden cooperation with the Ken Starr investigation, the blue dress suddenly appearing after the famous nationally televised “I did not have sex with that woman” speech. Those kind of changes in a percieved relationship can inspire the crows to roost. In this case, the arguments that began in the Lawrence apartment, the alleged threats that ensued, no doubt convinced Ms. Carter that, ring and alleged tatoo notwithstanding, her role with Mr. Morrison was not as special as she had percieved and she felt harassed and threatened. Probably not a good idea on Mr. Morrison’s part to pull the old bad cop intimidation routine when Ms. Carter could react through Mr. Kline. Pretty stupid move from a man given to getting what he wanted by intimidation.
Nice piece of spin!!
Thank you, chas, but a better example of spin is when a special interest organization teams with a politcal organization to vilify a serving AG for “political activity” and polish up a serving County Attorney with an already checkered past to the point that it becomes common acceptance that one is quantitively better than the other. Each of them certainly had motives in mind for the AG’s office: Kline apparently seemed fixated on saving babies; Morrison apparently leaned more toward creating them.
Whose rights are they protecting?
One of the Masterminds behind 911?
Hah!
Nice to see that Trollboy has already convicted the men being tortured.
I thought we did that with judges and juries and all that. Not so much anymore, huh. Now all it takes is a declaration from some fascist moron, and Voila! conviction secured.
I think Hillary and Bill destroyed the tapes while they were destroying the law documents from her law firm she worked for in Arkysaw.
Oh Tom is in love with the Al Qaeda master mind that killed 3000 people and wants to give him rights.
How sweet!
You going to ask him to the prom as well Tom?
So “in love” now means the same thing as “due process” and “innocent until proven guilty,” does it?
Maybe in your little mind those things are the same. Those of us who inhabit the real world understand the difference.
In any case, you keep forgetting that rights are not granted. Not be me, not by you, not by anyone. Rights are, as our Founding Fathers pointed out, inherent and inalienable. I guess only a true conservative understands these things, though.
This is also a nation of laws, not unilateral declarations by fascist morons. You do know that the US has hanged people who did to Americans what the CIA reportedly did to the suspects in custody, right?
Probably not.
“In the future, no witnesses, and no tapes.”
Uhm. . .right. Sane people, ponder Max’s statement for a moment.
Now imagine YOU’RE picked up and accused of terrorism (Brandon Mayfield, anyone?).
http://dir.salon.com/story/comics/tomo/2005/06/13/tomo/
Now imagine YOU’RE picked up and accused of terrorism (Brandon Mayfield, anyone?).
http://dir.salon.com/story/comics/tomo/2005/06/13/tomo/
Posted by: Rage | December 17, 2007 at 04:04 PM
Now imagine if you an Al Qaeda specialist whose main mission in life is to destroy infidels.
The same Al Qaeda person asked what he would do when released, “Oh nothing personal, I like you, but I would kill you and all infidels by any means for the glory of Allah.”
Yeah okay Libs, go double lip lock with your buddy there. Then after your tender kiss, he can kill you.
DNFTT
Kansas - it’s like my view toward the Carr brothers or the Duke “rapists” - let’s be damn sure they are guilty before we hang them. We have rounded up many Afghans and Iraqis only to find out afterwards that they were not ‘bad guys’. Let’s keep that in mind when we happily torture them.
I was in the waiting room on the Oncology dept at the VA, when news of the Carr trial came on. The two gentlemen expressed the view that a trial was a waste of money. One expressed the view (in very hushed tones) that we “giving” too many rights to these “niggers.”
Inflammatory BS aside, Mr. Kansas raises an interesting point: Have become such a society of bedwetting cowards, that we’re willing the punish the innocent, just avoid ANY chance of releasing the guilty?
(Let’s leave aside the fact that an interrogation should not normally be a punishment!).
I was in the waiting room on the Oncology dept at the VA, when news of the Carr trial came on. There two gentlemen expressed the view that a trial was a waste of money. One expressed the view (in very hushed tones) that we are “giving” too many rights to these “niggers.”
Inflammatory BS aside, Mr. Kansas raises an interesting point: Have become such a society of bedwetting cowards, that we’re willing to punish the innocent, just to avoid ANY chance of releasing the guilty?
(Let’s leave aside the fact that an interrogation should not normally be a punishment!).
When will they learn.1. There are no ‘rules’ in war.2. Video tape nothing.3. Do what you have to do to win.Period!
“Yeah okay Libs, go double lip lock with your buddy there. Then after your tender kiss, he can kill you.”
Posted by kansas
Talk about a specious argument. Substitute terrorist for al-qaeda and why everything just falls into place: Invade Iraq; hold suspected terrorists for as long as you wish (with no responsibility or accountability); torture those same suspected terrorists; tape the whole thing; then lose the tapes.
How does that sound? Is that what you’re trying to say? Sounds to me like this administration in a nut-shell, heavy on the nut.
“When will they learn.There are no ‘rules’ in war. Video tape nothing. Do what you have to do to win.”
Adopt this and the jihadists HAVE won. We just let them destroy our moral bedrock. How Vietnamesque! “We had to destroy the village in order to save it.” Bush had to destroy our Constitution in order to SAVE it? BAH!
When will you get it? This PHONY war was invented because someone told Bush that a President at war could always stay in power and have his way. So he invented an endless war with no possibility of a “win.”
Meanwhile the oil companies STILL get their tax breaks, the corporations continue to write the laws, and American workers continue to lose ground in a faltering economy with a substandard healthcare system as our kids play with poisonous uninspected toys, and mortgage company thieves laugh all the way to the bank.
We EXECUTED Japanese officers for waterboarding in WWII.
Executing the Japs was not torture, was it?
The executed Japanese had a trial. Remember those?
Some of them were even acquitted. The evidence showed they weren’t guilty of war crimes.
Imagine that. Trials. Evidence. Juries. What a country!!
Maybe we can get that country back again some day, eh Tom??
Chas,
I count the days.
We EXECUTED Japanese officers for waterboarding in WWII.
Posted by: David B | December 17, 2007 at 05:05 PM
Lies! There were so many charges against those Japanese officers, that water boarding was like 999th down the list.
Now Kansas attempts to justify waterboarding by bringing it in the BACK door…. “low on the list”
So here was an Al Qaeda Terrorist that the CIA and other countries tracked for months, listened in on his conversations, tracked his money, knew his associations, followed his deeds and was pointed out by other terrorists that he was the Master Mind of 911.
And all the Libs want to do is give him “his rights.”
Okay, here you go. The next time a field CIA operative encounters this situation in the field, his six shooter will accidentally go off 15 times in the terrorist’s head.
Sure thing, rights for terrorists…
Now Kansas attempts to justify waterboarding by bringing it in the BACK door…. “low on the list”
Posted by: Chas. | December 17, 2007 at 06:07 PM
No, smooth brain.
David B. emphatically stated it was reason for execution. It’s a lie.
The Japanese officers executed were convicted for horrible crimes like murder of rope bound men, forcing prisoners march, liveing hell under conditions that made death camps a desirable place to go.
Everybody in our system of laws has their rights… even if we catch them red-handed!
But, that isnt what you would like to have, now is it?? You would rather have us blow them away, and then invent a story how they were getting away, and needed to be shot. Because, wheh it comes down to brass tacks, Kansas, you really dont believe in our Constitution or our freedoms.
That would seem to be the picture you paint here frequently. And then, you hold out false claims of how the Liberals hate our country?? Balderdash!!
Constitutional liberties to an Al Qaeda terrorist? No, I don’t think so.
They can get a military tribunal along with the rest of their thug companions.
It’s the law, the courts say so Chas.
Or are you for going against the law Chas?
A Military Tribunal is at least some sort of Court. Better than just shooting them on contact!
Shooting saves time and money.
Personally, I think that Law needs to change, where we operate under the same criminal standards, no matter who the accused might be.
We CLAIM to have value for human life. We should SHOW that value to the world. Unless you want to suggest that we are as barbaric as our enemies?
Shooting saves time and money.
Posted by: Kansas | December 17, 2007 at 06:22 PM
=====================
How DARE you try to pass yourself off as a Patriot, with that kind of attitude toward justice! That is SO UN-American!!
Shooting Patriots founded this country Chas and saved the butt of America many times.
Besides, a well placed shot into a terrorist’s head is just a fact and denies the MSM from making those stories of whim and merry that entice Libs like you Chas. :)
LOL!!! Oh you got me!!! Mea Culpa!!! I did not lie, I just failed to list the entire set of accusations made against the war criminals. Sorry I thought was a blog, not a scholarly journal requiring footnotes.
BUT!! Nice try to change the subject of torture by the CIA!
As Orwell wrote in 1984 while explaining Perpetual War:War is PeaceFreedom is SlaveryIgnorance is StrengthWe may now add: Waterboarding is Not Torture
LOL Did you see on TV the CIA guy who PERFORMED THE WATERBOARDING saying that he believes it is torture???
In its 2005 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, the U.S. Department of State formally recognized “submersion of the head in water” as torture in its examination of Tunisia’s poor human rights record,[58] and critics of waterboarding draw parallels between the two techniques, citing the similar usage of water on the subject.
In 1947, the United States prosecuted a Japanese military officer, Yukio Asano, for carrying out a form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian during World War II. Yukio Asano received a sentence of 15 years of hard labor.[56] The charges of Violation of the Laws and Customs of War against Asano also included “beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; burning using cigarettes; strapping on a stretcher head downward.”
SEE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaterboardingSEE:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_Against_Torture
Kansas is scared of his own shadow.
That’s why he never leaves his house.
That’s why he wants the “nanny state” to protect him by any means necessary from the big bad mean terrorists.
He’d vote for Nazis if they swaggered around with guns and violated people’s civil rights to “protect” them.
Not very smart the crap you are posting “kansas”JM.
These blogs may be read anywhere.
Your rhetoric may create terrorists. Some idiot blathering about kangaroo court justice.
And YOUR big mouth will be outta the way of that in your basement. Meanwhile innocent travelers or our troops could get killed because of you.
You might want to think about knocking it off.
When it comes down to it, some people believe torture is okay and some people think torture is a bad thing
Pick your side!
When it come down to it, some people approve of torture and some people don’t.
Choose your side. I do not approve of torture.
LOL Did you see on TV the CIA guy who PERFORMED THE WATERBOARDING saying that he believes it is torture??? Posted by: David B | December 17, 2007 at 06:33 PM
Yeah, I watched everyone of the interviews with him.
That CIA helped capture him. However, he was re-assigned to another unit after the capture and did not see nor was privy to the information where the prisoners that were captured were kept.
Not a reliable source of information, but someone who wanted their time in the spot light. Looks like it was a winner, as the reporter believed the person who wasn’t there and better yet the Libs believe them.
Let the arm flailing Lib Parade on Review begin!
I am bailing out of this blog tonight as someone is now obviously getting drunk and abusive. Thanks for the earlier discussion.
Let it be known to ALL: KANSAS condones the murder of prisoners, if it speeds up the time it would take to put them on trial!! Such an American, Flag flapping thing for Kansas to be proud of!!
And for attitudes like this, I dont know whether to say, “Thank you for your service,” OR to just say, “My deepest sympathy.”
Let it be known to ALL: KANSAS condones the murder of prisoners, if it speeds up the time it would take to put them on trial!! Posted by: Chas. | December 17, 2007 at 06:48 PM
That would be incorrect Chas.
The terrorists would be disengaged of their ‘liberties’ in the field before they were captured with them resisting capture.
Capturing dangerous armed terrorists is not an easy thing to do, fatalities are likely to occur when dynamic encounters occur. :)
Spin it all you want… You still are an ENEMY of all that THIS great nation holds as sacred…
Again, YOUR post >>>
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/12/congress-cannot.html#comment-93965638
MURDER is not funny… 99% of the people on this Blog would not find MURDER being funny… But YOU, oh wise Kansas, YOU think it is funny… YOU would make jokes about it, except that it really isnt a joke to YOU… because you really believe that BS..
My deepest sympathy to you, former wearer of one of our nation’s uniforms! And my pity for you as well!
Good Night!
MURDER is not funny… 99% of the people on this Blog would not find MURDER being funny… But YOU, oh wise Kansas, YOU think it is funny… YOU would make jokes about it, except that it really isnt a joke to YOU… because you really believe that BS..Posted by: Chas. | December 17, 2007 at 06:55 PM
A soldier or an agent in the field in pursuit of a dangerous terrorist does not commit murder when the terrorist resists using weapons or tries to put on a suicide belt or other means that may bring harm to the soldier or agent.
Ahhh true enough — BUT — That is NOT what you posted!!
READ >>>
“Besides, a well placed shot into a terrorist’s head is just a fact…” [KANSAS]
You dont get many of those kinds of well placed shots, except for in CAPTURED prisoners!! Idiot!!
I am done with you… for now… I can only hope somebody else continues to tell you how LOW your thoughts have sunk!!
I cannot even type any more… just about makes me Ill at the moment!!
You dont get many of those kinds of well placed shots, except for in CAPTURED prisoners!! Idiot!!
Posted by: Chas. | December 17, 2007 at 07:02 PM
Having trouble with laser direct gun shots Chas?
Or perhaps a terrorist being taken out from 1000 yards out by a sniper is beyond your vision as well.
Maybe a cruise missile would better suit the purpose. Dust to dust and all that.
Pat Roberts is a coward. This Hoekstra cat has some honor….let’s see how far he takes it.I am telling you this - Karl Rove finger prints are all over this. I bet there are a lot of emails being deleted into oblivion on Pennsylvania Ave.
Looks like bush will have to shred the White house log, for National Security! http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071217/pl_nm/bush_christians_dc_2
The Constitution is not the source for human rights. They are endowed by our Creator and not bestowed just upon Americans. They are the right of ALL humans. To believe otherwise dehumanizes us all. Why do Republicans not understand this?
That’s a good question, *_* - whoever you might be!
I really loathe this administration. I don’t know how any decent real American can find what they are doing even remotely acceptable.
10 out of 10 retards believe that 20 Arabs based out of a cave in Afghanistan, armed with pocket knives circumvented our trillion-dollar military apparatus and flew planes into WTC 1 & 2, and performed a miraculous flight maneuver, circling 330 degrees at 500 miles per hour into the Pentagon, untouched by any Military interceptor. And unless you have something to hide (being in Guvmunt) you will be open and honest with overseers. Otherwise you will have to continue to lie to keep all of your other lies hidden. We’ve been hijacked.
Even in 1993 our “Loving Government” was up to some mischief, but then again I’m probably full of it. Check it out:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtcbomb.html
I can get anyone of you to say whatever I want you to say with a little bamboo and your hand.
I have served in the Persian Gulf and I believe the government should use whatever means necessary to avoid any kind of attacks on this great country that I served and that my brother and sister soldiers are dying for!!!
For those that would place the ‘rights’ of terrorists and enemies over the very life’s of their families are folks I am glad are not a part of my family. I guess it’s easy to moralize about torture when you don’t feel personally threatened, but the people dieing are a part of someone’s family you just don’t care about apparently. Like I said much earlier. With respect to the defense of my family and my country;There are no rules.No video taping war.I will do what I have to do as quickly and efficiently as possible.Anyone that thinks differently will end up dead or a slave to their victor.
“I will do what I have to do as quickly and efficiently as possible.Anyone that thinks differently will end up dead or a slave to their victor”
Well put on your cape and get to saving us! I am SO scared of the mean terrorists and eager for you to vanquish them so I can come out from under my bed!
The radical “conservatives” lie, and lie, and lie, and lie.
This isn’t about combatants on an active battlefield. Those are fair game, and the rules of engagement are clear on the use of force.
Many of the so-called “terror suspects” that are in Guantanamo and other classified facilities have been picked up because field intelligence indicates they might be involved in terrorism. However, some of this “intelligence” is neighbors making up tales about each other. It’s sometimes someone in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Sometimes, it’s our own government going after fellow American citizens. Have we all forgotten Brandon Mayfield? From Wiki:
“The FBI arrested Mayfield at his offices…under a material witness warrant rather than under charge, and held him with no access to family and limited access, if any, to legal counsel. The FBI initially refused to inform either Brandon or his family as to why he was being arrested or where he was being held - a direct violation of the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution.”
And what about Jose Padilla? A native-born American citizen, standing on American soil, was arrested and denied access to counsel and courts for over three years while the government played a jurisdictional shell game of moving him from brig to brig.
Do you really think that, if the government had gotten away with what they did to Mayfield and Padilla that would have been the end of it? Do you really think anyone, anywhere in this country would be safe?
The issue with the CIA tapes is not something that lives in some kind of isolated bubble. It’s all part and parcel of an administration that doesn’t care about civil liberties, about the Constitution, or about the values of this nation. And those of you who sit here and make excuses, who continue the lies even when you know the lies are so exposed, share some of the responsibility for what is happening to what once was our beloved country.
Shame on you.
Or perhaps a terrorist being taken out from 1000 yards out by a sniper is beyond your vision as well.
2 clips in the head from 1000 yds? Someone has been watching too many Swartzenegger movies. I’m really curious how the person is such a bad shot even with laser sights that one shot couldn’t get the job done.
And I assumed I was King of Hyperbole.
Or perhaps a terrorist being taken out from 1000 yards out by a sniper is beyond your vision as well.
2 clips in the head from 1000 yds? Someone has been watching too many Swartzenegger movies. I’m really curious how the person is such a bad shot even with laser sights that one shot couldn’t get the job done.
And I assumed I was King of Hyperbole.
Tom, I whole-heartedly agree with your last post. People don’t realize that that particular is not only slippery, it’s Teflon (registered trademark) clad.
particular slope, even. But, y’all knew that.
J.R. you are an idiot.There were three thousand innocent people killed on 9/11, all with families that loved them and were devastated. If you have any active gray matter, which you have yet to display, you will note that practically all terror committed across the entire globe is done so by radical Islamists that will come for you as soon as they have opportunity. And, you are quite correct about one thing, and one only…they will find you cowering and weeping under your bed, you immature mindless little traitor.
“…you immature mindless little traitor.”Posted by: AgHawk | December 18, 2007 at 08:57 AM
That’s where it always goes. Anyone who cherishes traditional American values is called a “traitor.”
Change the nic to adhoc.
Just more tired con retread. Be scared! If you aren’t scared you’re a traitor!
ho hum
Really wind yourself up and let me have it. That could be mildly amusing.
“That’s where it always goes. Anyone who cherishes traditional American values is called a “traitor.”If you define “American Values” as the murder of innocent Americans, you are correct.And J.R., you are simply too mindless to be scared.
Who gives a crap about Mayfield in regards to waterboarding Tom? No one does, because the story isn’t about Mayfield.
It was about the hardened terrorists captured overseas and taken in for interrogation.
Get a grip.
Since Trollboy is too effin’ wrapped up in his tiny little Rush O’Hannity world, I’ll repost my point:
========
The issue with the CIA tapes is not something that lives in some kind of isolated bubble. It’s all part and parcel of an administration that doesn’t care about civil liberties, about the Constitution, or about the values of this nation. And those of you who sit here and make excuses, who continue the lies even when you know the lies are so exposed, share some of the responsibility for what is happening to what once was our beloved country.
Shame on you.
Ya know?
If you even have TIME to be scared of terrorists in bush’s America?
You gotta be distanced from the reality of most Americans.
Threat of attack from terrorists is about as frightening to me as being hit by a flying saucer.
Impress me with some action if I am supposed to be so scared. Catch Osama bin Laden or close up the southern border.
As long as those are not done? I don’t take the fearmongering seriously.
Booga Booga!
A foreign terrorist would just soon blow you up or shoot you Tom rather than listen to your squeals.
They know people like you will just simply lie down like sheep in a meadow and let it all happen.
Shame on you for being a wimp.
Namecalling, before lunch, even!
It looks like the troll is headed for one of his scheduled meltdowns.
Tom calls me troll and trollboy, but doesn’t name call.
Something oddly warped about that kind of mind set.
Oh never mind, they call those bitter Liberals. :)
Sigh. ..to begin with, this is NOT about waterboarding. Since they destroyed the tapes, we don’t know if the prisoners were being beaten with lead pipes or just, say, being forced to eat Spangles.
Oh, and by the way, nice dodge–”Who gives a crap about Mayfield in regards to waterboarding Tom? No one does, because the story isn’t about Mayfield.
It was about the hardened terrorists captured overseas and taken in for interrogation.”
–but your own “logic” defeats you. FYI, Mayfield was implicated in the terrorist bombings in Spain. That’s SERIOUS TERRORISM. They found his fingerprint (or so they thought). Why not waterboard his ass? Who CARES if he might have been innocent? He’s a TERRORIST! Because the government said so! End of discussion!
Even worse, he was an American–born in the country–and a lawyer to boot! A TRAITOR to his own people! Not surprising, seeing how he was a MUSLIM, eh?
The slimeball was DAMNED lucky to get off that easy!
{Psst. . .hey, guy, the fingerprint they relied on was a bad photocopy of the original–it doesn’t even match. .. they got nothing. . .Mayfield did nothing wrong!}
Oops.. . .NEVER MIND! Oh well, it doesn’t matter–we’ve got a War on Terrorism® to fight!
It’s okay Rage and nice job of rationalizing.
Everyone knows you have to make three lefts in order to make a right turn point in discussion anyway. :)
Three lefts, haha - good joke - (snicker)
Yeah, okay I get it, Mayfield got screwed - boohoo - it’s over.
It has nothing to do with the current discussion.
No, obviously you DON’T get it, and are DETERMINED not get it. And I fully predict any government “oops” will be met with the same response–it’s not relevant–it’s easier than addressing the issue.
Irrelevant?:”Writers jailed in 2002 for political satireAfter three years at Guantanamo, Afghan writers found to be no threat to United StatesBY JAMES RUPERT | STAFF CORRESPONDENT
October 31, 2005
“For months, grim interrogators grilled them over a satirical article Dost had written in 1998, when the Clinton administration offered a $5-million reward for Osama bin Laden. Dost responded that Afghans put up 5 million Afghanis — equivalent to $113 — for the arrest of President Bill Clinton.
‘It was a lampoon … of the poor Afghan economy’ under the Taliban, Badr recalled. The article carefully instructed Afghans how to identify Clinton if they stumbled upon him. ‘It said he was clean-shaven, had light-colored eyes and he had been seen involved in a scandal with Monica Lewinsky,’ Badr said.”
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-wobadr094492447oct31,0,1261397.story?coll=ny-worldnews-headlines
Yeah Rage, I don’t get it what you are writing has to do with the topic at hand.
Nothing imo.
Once again:
=======
The issue with the CIA tapes is not something that lives in some kind of isolated bubble. It’s all part and parcel of an administration that doesn’t care about civil liberties, about the Constitution, or about the values of this nation. And those of you who sit here and make excuses, who continue the lies even when you know the lies are so exposed, share some of the responsibility for what is happening to what once was our beloved country.
Shame on you.
Posted by: Tom | December 18, 2007 at 10:00 AM
Not really Tom, I look at things in the way a Judge looks at a case.
A Judge will not allow rhetoric totally irrelevant to the case.
So shame on you for mixing apples and oranges to confuse the issue.
- This isn’t a courtroom.
- You’re not a judge.
- The Administration is doing everything they can to keep this issues from being reviewed by judges. Note my comments about Padilla upthread.
Rage is correct. You are DETERMINED not to get it. You are determined to remain blind to the outrageous trampling of human rights being done by our government in our name.
I count the days.
This case isn’t about Padilla is it?
Al Qaeda translates to “toilet” in Arabic. A full military-like operation “Al Qaeda” does not exist. Hell, Osama Bin Laden isn’t even a suspect for 9-11. Look at the FBI’s own wanted sheet:http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm
Where is the mention of WTC? It’s not there because Al Qaeda didn’t do it. Oh yeah…fat Osama already laid claim to doing it.
WAKE UP!!!!…pretty please?
A funny example of our being dumbed-down.
This is why we believe lies and throw away truths.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/138/ripoff0138027.htm
Al Qaeda translates to “toilet” in Arabic. A full military-like operation “Al Qaeda” does not exist. Hell, Osama Bin Laden isn’t even a suspect for 9-11. Look at the FBI’s own wanted sheet:http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm
Where is the mention of WTC? It’s not there because Al Qaeda didn’t do it. Oh yeah…fat Osama already laid claim to doing it.
WAKE UP!!!!…pretty please?
Posted by: Pleefer | December 18, 2007 at 01:09 PM
Al Qaeda translates to “toilet” in Arabic. A full military-like operation “Al Qaeda” does not exist. Hell, Osama Bin Laden isn’t even a suspect for 9-11. Look at the FBI’s own wanted sheet:http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm
Where is the mention of WTC? It’s not there because Al Qaeda didn’t do it. Oh yeah…fat Osama already laid claim to doing it.
WAKE UP!!!!…pretty please?
Posted by: Pleefer | December 18, 2007 at 01:09 PM
This is a joke right? Tell me you’re not serious.
No joke, I’m serious.
Study and do some research Kansas.
Well Kansas. Since you are the astute one here today, explain to me why UBL’s terrorist credentials don’t list 9-11 but the Tanzania and Nairobi along with the USS Cole do show up.
Please, save me from my ignorance!
No thanks Pfeefer. I’ve actually read some of writings of “fools” about the 911 conspiracy. Everyone of the 911 spoof papers have been proven wrong by independent experts, architects and engineers.
Is everyone that is involved in the 911 report a conspirator too? You know,that involves people on both sides of the aisle and even people outside of the U.S. Government.
Of course Osama Bin Laden is not on the FBI list. FBI handles DOMESTIC law enforcement.
The 911 attack was one of International origins.
Get a grip on reality man or go visit the Rosie O’Donel website again.
Executing the Japs was not torture, was it?
Posted by: Max | December 17, 2007 at 05:07 PM
Leave it to Max to miss the point entirely!!
You believe what you want, I’ll stick with the cold, ugly truth here.
Let me get this straight though, you said that the FBI deals with “Domestic” law enforcement. OK, so why would they mention the African attacks and not one that actually happened here?
And if you’re proving all of the facts “wrong” by citing Popular Mechanics, you really need to study. Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Publishing, maker of “Yellow Journalism”. Do you even know what that is? Of course you do, you apparently are all-knowing. Benjamin Chertoff (lead researcher for Poular Mechanics) is DHS’s Michael Chertoff’s cousin.
Get a grip and quit sucking down the Hannity/Fox News/Limbaugh/Glenn Beck lies.
You are sure smart.
I need to add CNN to that list.
Since they destroyed the tapes, they must have known they were doing something wrong opn them. BTW, if you could sit there and watch that man being waterboarded when they showed it on the news, you are a little tetched in the head.
Let me get this straight though, you said that the FBI deals with “Domestic” law enforcement. OK, so why would they mention the African attacks and not one that actually happened here? Posted by: Pleefer | December 18, 2007 at 03:28 PM
Embassies are American “Sovereign Soil” as are Naval Aircraft. I’m sure you are smart enough to figure that out.
=====================And if you’re proving all of the facts “wrong” by citing Popular Mechanics, you really need to study. Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Publishing, maker of “Yellow Journalism”. Do you even know what that is? Of course you do, you apparently are all-knowing. Benjamin Chertoff (lead researcher for Poular Mechanics) is DHS’s Michael Chertoff’s cousin.
Posted by: Pleefer | December 18, 2007 at 03:28 PM
Nope. I’m referring to the dozens of books, videos, 911 Studies, expert witnesses that have all refuted 911 conspiracies theories.
But hey, if the tinfoil hat fits, wear it Pfeefer.
BTW, there will be a UFO watch out at Lake Afton tonight, might want to be there.
:)
But WTC is “domestic” and they had the investigation (what they could investigate after Giuliani took and removed all of the evidence).
Give me some titles and credentials of the authors of these books.
They meaning the FBI.
UFO watching sounds fun.
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/
When you finish with the 911 report and studied it thoroughly, let me know I can get you more material. :)
I’ve read the thing, smart guy, big deal. The famous 9-11 Ommission Report! Why do you think I question it all now? Answer: Precisely because I did read it. All members were appointees and some have even written books with members of the Bush cabinet (Rice and Zelikow). The deck was/is stacked and Barnum was right.
Read up on the following (since the can is open):http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0304/032204c1.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ray_Griffin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html
Sorry I don’t like standing next to “tinfoil hats.”
I might get something slimy on me.
Oh yeah, if you truly know Reagan and his “Reaganomics” this man, Paul Craig Roberts was the father of Reaganomics and was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Reagan. He must be some tin-foil hat wearing idjit too.
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/Article%20Republican%20Appointees%20Challenge%20911.pdf
I see you recieved your debate skills from Bill O’Reilly or maybe Hannity. When losing, always resort to sophomoric insults and name calling. Good, you’re staying in line.
I see you receive your science from the Cartoon Physicist Morgan Reynolds, the economist, who tried to tell engineers how it happened at the WTC.
Even a freshman engineering student can see the flaws in Morgan Reynolds’s assertion.
It is hardly worth of shamanism - not even close to engineering principles.
You know pfeefer if you watch bugs bunny cartoons, some of these conspiracy ideas about the WTC just might work.
:D
We’ll have to agree to disagree about whom is a “reputable” scientist. They called Copernicus and Galileo kooks for their stupid theories on Heliocentrism, but the Church finally corrected them on that notion. But they weren’t ever freshman engineering students either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth
Poor attempt at diversion tinfoil
You’ve been caught saddling the horse of lunacy.
Enjoy your passion of conspiracy, wade the shallow stream of incredulity - it’s the only chance you’ll get at obtaining notoriety.
:D
I’ll take it, you believe yourself to be a deep thinker and poet. You must also be an engineer or physicist.
You be sure to enjoy your terror-filled boogeymen stories of far off dark people and how they want to kill you. And I’ll stay here watching what the real enemies are up to.
I know people like you, you are the toughest hombres in the world, you want war against those evil Arabs who would try and kill us. But unlike real men, you wouldn’t go fight for yourselves. You can send your protectors over there but never muster the courage to protect yourself. I’ve a friend that’s a chemist and he acts just the way you are. Because he’s a chemist, he’s also qualified to speak for architects, engineers and brain surgeons.
You win.
But before I go, here are some examples of recent false-flag incidents that you ought read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoodshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incidenthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incidenthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire
The ravings of a lunatic?
Whatever man.
Actually, I’m retired military, so you were half right. :D
As far as being a deep thinker, I take what God has granted me.
A fine college education of course, never hurts to go along with that. :)
Well, Kansas, I have to say thanks for serving. And I too, use what God has allowed me to have.
But I can’t expect anyone that highly regards Bush to even grasp what has actually transpired when GWB’s own Press Secretary doesn’t know what the Cuban Missle Crises was.http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/10/nobodys-perfect-press-secretary-edition/index.html?hp
I’m not trying to “persuade” anyone. And I’m not afeared of being called any number of names because of my convictions. What I always try to do is let folks hear ans see history that was swept under the rug and out of school books.
Hang in there Pleefer — I just read your link… Those are ALL credible people… ALL appointed by the Right Wing politicians of our Country… And they ALL disagree with the official 9-11 Commission report!!
Kansas thinks he is all knowing, and all seeing… because he (a) doesnt know; and (b) does not WANT to see truth when it trips him!!
Hopefully the Democrat majority Congress can put a stop to much of this pseudo-legal stuff foisted on us by BushCo!! That will be a great in America!
Congress just has to deflect the attention to their sorry excuse for a governmental body by going after the CIA for picking on a few bad guys who want to kill you and me and destroy every freedom that we have because we choose not to believe as they do. I say again, if you paid for your education, get your money back, you’ve been screwed.
We Ksgrm, Bill and Hillary built that bridge you know.
The bridge to 9/11.
Say Tara,
Do you know what a starter motor is?
How many starts is that good for?
How much gas to you have to save to pay for a new starter?
How much energy and materials does it take for the factory to make a new starter?
Oh, and with 50 cars stopped at a stop light, how much longer will it take for 50 cars to start their engines and proceed through the green light?
How much fuel will my car burn while I wait for everyone else to start their cars and start moving through the green light?
Before I start shutting off my car at every stop light, I’d like to see those questions answered.
SENATOR CLINTON CULTURE OF CORRUPTION CAMPAIGN CONTINUES….
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2007/09/jersey-sting-na.html
Jersey sting nabs Clinton backer
Hillary Clinton clearly had fun — and gained much attention — with the video that played off the much-debated ending to “The Sopranos.”
But today comes the reminder for her campaign that crime and corruption in New Jersey aren’t fiction.
Newsday’s Glenn Thrush notes that Passaic Mayor Sammy Rivera, one of 11 Jersey politicians — mostly Democrats — snared in a federal sting operation, recently was named to Clinton’s national Hispanic outreach team. Thrush also notes the arrest comes a day after Clinton super-donor Norman Hsu failed to show for his date with a California judge.
Clinton is scheduled to speak Friday to a gathering of New Jersey Democrats in Atlantic City. Chances are some of her listeners will be somewhat preoccupied.
Out here in the country the visibility is down to about 100yds.
Can barely see the lake. However, I’ve been watching about a dozen seagulls fishing in this blizzard!
We have about 20ft of ice at the edge of the lake and the seagulls can hover in this wind and every now and then spot something to eat.
Interesting.
Hey Cosmos,
“Do you understand that Denis G. Rancourt is not a climatologist, and does not seem to have published even ONE peer-reviewed paper re climate?http://www.science.uottawa.ca/~dgr/sc.htm
Posted by: cosmos | December 22, 2007 at 11:52 AM”
From your link:
“He has published approximately two hundred articles and essays in areas such as marine geochemistry, condensed matter physics, organic chemistry, planetary science, mineralogy, aquatic biogeochemistry, diffraction and spectroscopic measurement theory, the physics profession, climate change and the environmental movement, critical pedagogy, and activism.”
Also, from your link:
“Denis G. Rancourt is a physics professor and environmental science researcher at the University of Ottawa, and an activist, anarchist, and critical pedagogue.”
Seems like he’s qualified to have a credible opinion to me!
And, I forget, Algore’s qualifications again?
Nitwit.
Hey Tara, do you wonder how much gasoline we could save if we had a “No Driving a Combustion Vehicle” holiday.Do that once a month and see what happens.
Small things add up “BIG”.
“Sorry if I said something different than that to you. That is what it meant to me.”
Probably just my perspective as as a longtime computer geek. I think Tom was correcting some misimpressions JR stated (in typical anal techie fashion), nothing more.
OF COURSE Gates wouldn’t have “waited” for the Internet. It was 1975. He made software for microcomputers. Apples and oranges.
While I wouldn’t presume to speak for Tom, I bet he would agree that, without the crucial government funding/research/invention of the 60’s thru 80’s, the Internet we know today would probably not even exist.
I think it is laughable at best to suggest that the internet would not exist without prior government funding and research.
History would have taken a slightly different course, but saying the internet would not even exist is ignorance of technology and the many facets which created the internet over time.
Well shutting off your engine for any but the longest red light might be a bit much.
I already shut the engine down when stopped by a train. And if a drive through has more than one other car I park and go in.
You can drive a light ahead. I do that. If the light is not going to stay green get off the gas. Do it sometime just for fun. You’ll be surprised how many idiots will whip around you in frustration only to beat you to a dead stop!
Dear Hank,
So you are UNABLE to understand the HUGE difference between merely having an “opinion”, with nothing credible to support it, and peer-reviewed science?
And Hank is UNABLE to understand that Al Gore is repeating peer-reviewed climate science?
It’s not just Gore’s “opinion”. When Hank attacks Al Gore, he is really attacking scientists such as the authors listed in the Annex at http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-wg1.htm
Well what we HAVE is clear and present history that the internet exists and is available to the general public because of government funding. Private interests might have created something similar over time. But as is usually the case theirs would likely have been a very exclusive club for well monied users. AOL was something like that for a long time.
Cosmos,
It is pointless to talk to someone like you when you have already said on several occasions that the only thing credible is the science which agrees with the so called consensus.
You keep making demands for “credible” science which you already deny exists or could exist.
That is not science at all.
You are a believer in the cult of Global Warming and according to you, you refuse to believe it is wrong no matter what anyone says or shows.
You are unreasonable and irrational.
Catching up with the above messages:
I want my doctor to help me make my health care decisions! Not someone who has never seen me.
I turn my car off when waiting for trains, and I do not use drive up lanes at Starbucks or the rare trip to fat food restaurants. Zero miles per gallon at idle!
Denis G. Rancourt also says:
“Our moral responsibility extends far beyond checking out Al Gore’s web site, …. Our responsibilities instead include getting informed, and demanding moral accountability of all those who should serve people, including the corporations and private banks.Resistance to the insane return-on-investments hydra that inhabits our planet is our main responsibility if we are concerned about future generations.”
You’d hate his views except the ones you can use out of context…See: http://www.perc.ca/PEN/2006-07-08/s-rancourt.html
Maybe the father of the dead girl instead of suing should exercise his second amendments right and use a shot gun to put the Dr’s med school training all over the wall
There’s a reason they are called the Christian Taliban:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122107J.shtml
God and guns. Get a religious military dedicated to your deity and kill in his name all the unbelievers. Some may say that’s the views of Hamas, but it’s also the view of Christian fundamentalists in America who recruit and indoctrinate soldiers into holy warriors.
We can send the holy warriors to the front lines to kill all the men and leave the women to be gang raped by military contractors like those in Dick Cheney’s Halliburton in order to terrorize the rest of the populace.
http://www.injuryboard.com/national-news/halliburton-employee-finally-gets-attention-for-rape-case.aspx?googleid=28772
Of course they rape American teenagers just as much as Iraqi women. What a wonderful Christian country.
Nathan..
Science consists of consensus of experts based on the best observable evidence available at the time.
I do not understand what you think science is. You expect unchanging eternal absolute truths?
Please enlighten me … and please cite sources. One of us is very mistaken. It may be me, but I demand some evidence that I am incorrect about the nature of science.
Please See: http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/railsback_1122science1.html On What Science Is & What Science Is Not
David B I too want my doctors making my medical decisions. If you think that medicare doctors now makes all of those decisions then you need to get the little Medicare and You for 2008. The governments makes the decisions. The docs comply. This is Hillarycare is action.
I’m ahead of you on the conservation debate because since June I drive a Prius. It shuts down when not moving in just a few seconds. A foot on the gas starts it back up so you aren’t wearing out your starter. I also always turn out lights when leaving any room. Never let the water run when brushing my teeth, planted seven new trees this year and was responsible for 21 more being planted and don’t believe that GW is man made.
I have read extensively and know that there is a large disagreement within the scientific community as to the cause and effect of GW. As with many developing opinions this one is finally being vetted in the scientific community. Al Gore has lied to you. He has sold his country out. I firmly believe this. He sold out to the highest bidder.
History may prove him right but right now he is swimming upstream.
David B,
It is amazing, that up until the so called “consensus” on Global Warming I had never even heard the word used in any of my science classes at all.
My point is that when you already come into a discussion saying anything which disagrees with the so called consensus is not credible you are the one who is rejecting science.
Science doesn’t come to a so called consensus and then say anything else is wrong.
Science is about constantly challenging itself in the discovery of truth.
When Cosmos simply rejects anything which would disagree with the “consensus” on Global Warming as not being credible, he is being close minded, irrational and unreasonable.
Of course they rape American teenagers just as much as Iraqi women. What a wonderful Christian country.
Posted by: Doug | December 22, 2007 at 01:40 PM
Doug how many men were involved in this attack? How many Christian fundamentalists do we have in this country? The percentage of professing Christians who do something like this is too small to even calculate.
If you woke up tomorrow and said I am now a straight man would that make you straight. Well just because a person says they are an evangelical Christian doesn’t make them one. They will be known by their actions.
When we want to believe one thing we can unfortunately find plenty of ‘facts’ to support a warped belief. I would encourage you to actuallly look at the entire situation and not try to brand an entire group people by a biased attack.
Hey David B.,
I personally think that Rancourt is a liberal nitwit when it comes to his politics.
However, he is more than qualified to have a credible opinion on global warming.
He summarizes his opinion by saying:
“Global warming is strictly an imaginary problem of the First World middle class.”
Rancourt is merely #2 of the 400 scientists that are part of the Senate report.
At one a day we have enough for me to post one a day until March of 2009.
Just one small way to shove ‘consensus’ up cosmos’ butt.
The doctor who covered Jaime’s case reported that he couldn’t remember the specifics since he had to do with so many accounts of women getting raped by military contractors. The extent of the problem isn’t known because it has been covered up by the State Department which destroyed evidence.
No surprise the “liberal” media isn’t talking much about this story. It was Dick Cheney’s company that employed the rapists. Had it been a company where Al Gore or Bill Clinton was a CEO (actually Dick is still on the payroll) then it would be making headlines everywhere.
The House of Representatives said our nation is based upon the bible and in the 10 commandments it says women are merely property like cattle. The bible also says the punishment for rape is that the woman must be executed. God bless our Christian USA.
Speaking of saving oil a few comments above, I noticed a statistic recently on the amount of oil, electricity, energy, etc. that could be saved by continuing on DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME rather than switching back to standard time … central standard time here in Kansas.
Interestingly, Wichita is located towards the west end of the central time zone, so I suspect daylight savings time is actually closer to real solar time (when the daylight hours before noon equal the daylight hours after noon) than standard time.
Just now, looking up “solar noon” for Wichita today, I get 12:28 PM, so real time is basically split between standard time and daylight savings time here in Wichita.
Plus continuing on Daylight Savings Time year around would save adjusting all those pesky clocks and watches twice per year.
It is too bad some will not get on board with addressing what is very likely a serious problem. Is it because they hate the messenger? If george bush told me my house was on fire I’d at least look into it.
But I guess there are always luddites. They are of increasing inconsequence. MY generation learned responsibility to the Earth. Now they are teaching their kids. They’ll launch a new age. The stodgy will still be trying to prove the Earth is flat in any age.
That bylaw about idling didn’t go very far, it was intended to stop cabs and busses running their engines needlessly while parked waiting to load or get passengers at downtown hotels I think……how would they enforced it anyway I wonder? On another point, Tony Blair has become a Roman Catholic according to the Guardian, something he could not do and be PM of the UK. Think of that, you must be a Protestant to hold the highest elective post in the land!
Dear ksgrm,
I reject your statement that the government makes medical decisions for Medicare patients.
When a Medicare patient enters our clinic we have to have them sign a form that outlines what Medicare pays for and what it doesn’t.
For the services that are covered my Medicare we can’t charge anymore than what Medicare allows. For services that Medicare doesn’t cover we can set the charges but we need that form signed by the patient that informs them that Medicare doesn’t cover them.
If we recommend services that Medicare doesn’t cover it is a decision made by the patient with our recommendation and other than reimbursement, the government has no control.
Medicare is a cruel joke.
JR,
The messenger has nothing to do with it.
Yes Al Gore is an idiot. I wasn’t in agreement with the science on Global Warming since the 90’s.
Al Gore has nothing to do with it.
Of course, you always seem to be able to NEVER understand what or why those who disagree with you, do.
The House of Representatives said our nation is based upon the bible and in the 10 commandments it says women are merely property like cattle. The bible also says the punishment for rape is that the woman must be executed. God bless our Christian USA.
Posted by: Doug | December 22, 2007 at 01:56 PM
Doug where do you get this stuff? I can’t believe you are this unsophisticated in your knowledge base. This is baiting at it’s worse and this snowy day I have several books just begging to be read.
Just put down the latest Grisham because he changed styles again. Wish he would quit that.
Have a new Jance and she is my next favorite suspense writer. Have a great day and a Merry Christmas.
“You keep making demands for “credible” science which you already deny exists or could exist.”
Posted by Nathan
I’ve said that there is no credible science that refutes the consensus on human-caused global warming.
And I’m not responsible for your opinion, which has no credible science to support it.
For the umpteenth time Nathan, what is to lose by addressing the problem?
Losing our addiction to oil?
Bruno,In newer cars the starter is generally good for the life of the car. My mother has a 1995 Neon and it’s still on the same starter.
As for all your other objections, God forbid you add maybe 30 seconds of your commute to help reduce emmissions.
Like Wiseman said, if everyone would do these little things every day, it WOULD add up to something big.
I’m quite happy with my moped and bike, though. $3 and $0 a week on gas, and I get to spend all that saved money on masaladas, yum!
Hank you of course are right about that. My point was that someone who will be depending on their entire healthcare to come from the federal government will be bound by the restrictions put on medicare now. If they have no private resources they won’t be able to buy better care.
The supplemental insurance that you carry along with medicare of course if a life saver and from what I have read about Canada, England and New Zealand health care plans this wouldn’t be allowed.
By the way for those WE Bloggers who are sticklers for accuracy, I just noticed that in my first comment on this blog thread above, I should have said in the third paragraph: “… the winter solstice occured this morning (December 22nd, 2007) at EIGHT MINUTES after midnight.” Must have mis-read the solstice chart.
Anyway the good news is today the Sun will again begin moving incrementally northward in relation to the Earth’s equatorial plane eventually warming the earth and heralding Spring … hard to believe in this white-out blizzard!
JR,
For the umpteenth time, what is to lose by becoming a Christian?
Losing your eternal damnation?
I have had this conversation with you before.
It is about cost/benefit.
The measures, like the Kyoto Protocol, are absurd and costly. Not worth implementing even if Global Warming were true.
The things you talk about are one thing, the things which the politicians actually want to do are absurd at best.
someone who will be depending on their entire healthcare to come from the federal government will be bound by the restrictions put on medicare now.
Better than what I got now.
Ksgrm, it’s nice that you think I just make stuff up but some media outlets have been carrying the story. Jaime Jones recently spoke in front of Congress about her rape. Don’t fault me because I’m more informed about current event than you.http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=3977702
Perhaps you’ve never heard of HR 847, but that’s your fault, not mine. I suppose you get all your news from Jay Leno and have been in a drought recently because of the writer’s strike.http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:2:./temp/~c110hc0Cob::
Nathan,
NCSA Mosaic was the first multi-media web browser. Al Gore wrote the legislation that funded the Mosaic team.
The (non-working) Sept 1993 demo page for Mosaic, with a picture of Al Gore.http://www.totic.org/nscp/demodoc/demo.html
For the umpteenth time Nathan, what is to lose by addressing the problem?
Losing our addiction to oil?
Posted by: J R | December 22, 2007 at 02:04 PM
JR you don’t understand - there isn’t a concensus of what the problem is - how then can it be addressed.
I don’t think anyone here would purposefully damage the planet we live on. As I have stated I conserve much more that some people who believe in GW (Al Gore) and yet those who don’t believe are the culprits.
“For the umpteenth time, what is to lose by becoming a Christian?” –Nathan
What does one have to gain?
Cosmos what is this thing you have for Al Gore? Are you related?
He is an out of work politician. He has become rich off the back of followers who buy his speil hook, line and sinker.
Credible scientists are maligned to elevate this man. That isn’t sensible.
Doug,
Much more than believing life started in a puddle of goo by some “magical” spark.
That is what you believe isn’t it Doug?
Ksgrm, Al Gore has a few jobs. He works for Google and runs a television network. Perhaps you should get a bit more informed on a topic before embarrassing yourself further.
Something for ksgrm and Nathan to consider.
What if you are wrong?
I see you can’t answer the question Nathan. That’s typical. What is this goo that you are talking about that you insist I believe in?
Nathan
I have attempted to mitigate my use of people’s faith in debate.
I can’t do it if you won’t.
JR,
If I am wrong I will simply be dead, be reincarnated, go to some other unhappy place some other religion thinks I’ll be in, or nothing.
What if you are wrong?
Credible Science appears to be an oxymoron.
Is that like sanitized clean surface?
Or perhaps flame retardant underwear?
Gary Goobergrabber: “Tell me Mr. Weatherman, what is teh weather going to be like on January 21st 2012.”
Scientist: “We can’t tell you that.”
Gary Goobergrabber: “Okay, Mr. Climatologist, tell me what the climate will be in the forth decade of the twenty first century.”
Scientist: “We do have projections that say that an upward trend of man-made CO2 gases will invoke increasing spikes of temperature change.”
Gary Goobergrabber: “So it will get warmer?”
Scientist: “That’s what the current computer models state which have been tested against current theories.”
Gary Goobergrabber: “What if the theories change”
Scientist: “Then we will adjust the computer models.”
Gary Goobergrabber: “So you really don’t know if the computer models can accurately predict climate?”
Scientist: “We have a degree of certainty that climate will change if the parameters we plugged in are adjusted to the current science.”
Gary Goobergrabber: “So adjusting parameters means you are making up it up as you go along.”
Scientist: “Something like that yes.”
What if you are wrong about global warming Nathan?
So either you do not believe in science as a consensus of professional opinion - and/or you simply believe that there is yet no consensus of professional scientists’ determinations.
On the first point I again urge you to Google the nature of science.
On the second point, I must ask you at what point will you agree that consensus is reached and action is required or ruled as unneeded.
Google the words “Science Consensus” and you get 5 1/2 million hits.
Also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus
I was wondering where does Christianity (or your own other faith) stand with / or address the Knights Templar ………….
…… and seriously UFO’s
JR if I live my entire life as a Christian believing that Jesus Christ is my lord and savior. I have lived a great life. Lived my life with a high moral standard as outlined in the bible. Raised a great family. Enjoy Christian fellowship with my friends. And then I come to the end of my life as we all do.
When my soul leaves my body I will be present with God. That is what the bible tells me. If I am wrong and have believed wrong my entire life I will never know it.
When you die and your soul leaves your body if what I believe is correct you have a very different future in store. If I am wrong then we will both be decaying flesh buried for eternity and we will neither one be the wiser.
Whose place would you rather be in?
Ksgm: Supplemental insurance for dental, optical, drug and paramedical treatment ie. physio, massage etc., is a recommended necessity here for the Provincial scheme doe not cover those areas.I use Blue Cross. I don’t know about the Kiwis or the Brits.
I am asking again.
For those who say there is no global warming.
What if you are wrong?
That’s assuming you gambled on the correct god. Odds are against you.
“At one a day we have enough for me to post one a day until March of 2009.
Just one small way to shove ‘consensus’ up cosmos’ butt.”
Posted by: Hank | December 22, 2007 at 01:52 PM
Actually, Hank will be proving that he’s a gullible fool. For example,
“Britain: Dr. Richard Courtney, a UN IPCC expert reviewer and a UK-based climate and atmospheric science consultant:”
Anyone can become an IPCC “reviewer”, by simply asking to see the draft report. And Courtney is a coal spokesperson, NOT a climate scientist.
‘400 Prominent Scientists Dispute Global Warming - Bunk’http://www.desmogblog.com/400-prominent-scientists-dispute-global-warming-bunk
Oh DO post one of them a day Hank! PLEASE?
I’ve SEEN your list of “scientists”.
What if you are wrong?
Posted by: J R | December 22, 2007 at 02:24 PM
What if we aren’t?
I cannot understand who made a transition to cleaner energy a political matter. Is anyone claiming that oil will last forever? Or that wind and solar power is dangerous? Or that we do not spend blood and treasure protecting oil resources?
Does anyone NOT want to have a roof that generates all the power you need in your home? Does anyone NOT want cleaner automobiles?
One could have (and some did) use the tobacco industry sponsored study that showed smoking improves health.One could claim no consensus existed then.
I heard a story that goes.. if the oil companies decided there is only a trillion barrels of oil left, the best plan would be to jack the price price up as high as possible and suck every last dollar out of it until it is gone. Hey, a hundred trillion is a hundred trillion!
Hank what if you are?
Will “I’m sorry!” cut it?
“Because we don’t think about future generations, they will never forget us.” Henrik Tikkanen
LOL!! If yer arguing religion now.. I am bailing out to shovel snow. You can stay here and shovel the B****!
Senator Inhofe… Oklahoma… Oil Companies…. tax breaks for oil companies…. ohh.. I get it now…..
JR what is it you would want us to do? I conserve, clean up the earth, do all of the things I can to protect mother earth. I don’t worship her as GWers do.
What exactly do you want me to do?
David B you have made a great analogy here. Shoveling snow in the middle of a blizzard is much like the GW alarmers yelling that the sky is falling when credible scientists are saying ‘Wait a minute’. Not productive.
By golly look at it snowing out there!
Now would be a perfect time to put those on unemployment compensation to work, shoveling public sidewalks, public building entrances, and hospitals.
Why should I go out before dark and risk a heart attack - when there are young and healthy beggars at the public trough, who could be earning their keep?
Laughing out loud!!!! I love it when you use me like that!!!!
I shovel snow during a storm so the work is spread out over time.
I would start bilge pumps on a boat before the water reached the gunwales.
I would have more tax dollars going to alternative energy research and development and not to tax break for big oil because we know fossils fuels are not sustainable.
Luckily, we have our grown sons home for the holidays and they have made short work of our rather large drive. Will it need to be done again? Yes, but next time will be easier than the first. The weather outside is frightful!
“Shoveling snow in the middle of a blizzard is much like the GW alarmers yelling that the sky is falling when credible scientists are saying ‘Wait a minute’. Not productive.”
Posted by: Ksgrm | December 22, 2007 at 02:49 PM
And WHO are your “credible scientists”? The ones in Sen. Inhofe’s list, who only have “opinions”, not any credible science? Richard Courtney, the coal spokesperson?
The longer we delay reducing greenhouse emissions, the sharper the cuts will have to be in the future — it’s like shoveling snow before it stops falling.
I’ve been keeping the depth out front under control. I know this little snowfall is not in any way a sign of an ice age.
I can’t even get out of my garage there is so much ‘global warming’ on my drive and the street.
“The longer we delay reducing greenhouse emissions.”
Well someone should tell Congress that Cosmos. Their brilliant idea of increasing CAFE standard in 13 years will allow almost another 200 million cars to reach the roads less than the 35 MPG mandated. Even then, my Honda Hybrid is providing me 44 MPG in 2007. I wonder how high that will be without the DELAY congress is causing?
The Big Three will baste in not spending their precious earnings for decades.
Meanwhile, the polar bears will all drown because the north pole is melting at an “alarming” pace.
I’m not too worried about the bears. I’ve only seen them in zoos anyway. I think I can live without them being there. Besides, there will be no excuse not to drill Alaskan oil with the wildlife gone.
And if the pole melts, maybe some of the big blue states will get reduced in size a little.
But Cosmos, I haven’t heard when all the intervention you envision happening, will stop GW.
How many years did it take to get where we are at today?
With the new CAFE standards not even taking affect until 2020, and the 200 million cars which will still fall under 35 MPG, still on the roads until at least 2030 - how’s that going to reduce GW?
‘and the snow is so delightful’. How can anything so beautiful be such a pain in the back to remove?
My garage door has a three foot drift up against it. Guess I will just wait for the thaw.
Cosmos I respect your opinion just respectfully disagree with your conclusions. History will prove one of us wrong. Until then I will do all I can to make things better, I will encourage our government to do all we can as a nation to do no harm - both to our environment or to our industrial corporations.
It is pretty out there. And, with a full moon coming, if it clears it will REALLY be pretty at night!
Cosmos has explained the difference between weather and climate, sort of.
Climate is long-term weather.
But what IS Long Term?
10 years?
30 years?
100 years?
1,000 years?
All the arctic and antarctic ice melting alarmists are basing their observations on a “Norm” established over roughly 30 years from 1970 to 2000. (We didn’t have satellites before)
So, is there something MAGICAL about that 30 year period between 1970 and 2000 that would warrant establishing that 30 year time period as “Normal”?
I doubt it.
Every time we have a heat wave in the summer, the global warming alarmists cite that heat wave as evidence of global warming.
During the snow storm today, global warming people say this is just weather.
So short term weather is evidence of climate change only during heat waves.
Very confused bunch these GW people are.
With Mike Huckabee’s continuing surge, the Republican Party now has an Iowa front-runner whose religious beliefs are virtually identical to those of George Bush. He’s anti-choice, born-again, against gay-marriage, and gets political advice directly from God.
So why is the Republican establishment suddenly in a state of near-apoplexy about Mike Huckabee? Shouldn’t they be happy? They’ve been cultivating evangelicals and fundamentalists for 30 years. Now they finally have a candidate who’s truly part of the movement. So what’s the problem?
Actually, that is the problem. The evangelical crowd was fine when it was just a resource to be cynically exploited every few years in demagogic anti-gay get-out-the-vote campaigns. But now the holy-rolling monster the GOP’s Dr. Frankensteins have created has thrown off the shackles, fled the lab, and is currently leading in Iowa. And the party doesn’t know what to do.
It’s actually fun to watch the consternation. Ross Douthat has dubbed this feeling “Huckenfreude,” which he defines as “pleasure derived from the outrage of prominent conservative pundits over the rising poll numbers of Mike Huckabee.”
And there is certainly no shortage of outrage among hyperventilating conservative columnists across the country. The National Review’s Rich Lowry has coined a neologism of his own: “Huckacide.” This is when a national party commits suicide by nominating an “under-vetted former governor who is manifestly unprepared to be president of the United States.”
Yeah, that would certainly be crazy, wouldn’t it? Makes you wonder where these people have been for the last seven years.
Over at the Washington Post, Charles Krauthammer is wringing his hands about an “overdose of public piety,” “scriptural literalism,” and how the 2008 campaign is “knee-deep in religion.”
At the Weekly Standard, Stephen Hayes worries about the fact that Huckabee “told a producer for Pat Robertson’s Christian Broadcasting Network that his religious background made him most qualified to lead the war on terror,” and that he “seems to believe the best foreign policy is one guided by the Golden Rule.” Scoffing at the Golden Rule? What’s next, attacking the Boy Scout Oath? And what it is about Huckabee’s name that inspires a whole new lexicon? The Weekly Standard’s headline writers couldn’t resist, dubbing his perceived foreign policy shortcomings “The Perils of Huckaplomacy.”
Over at the Wall Street Journal, Peggy Noonan frets that the Republican Party of today wouldn’t like Ronald Reagan much now that “faith has been heightened as a determining factor in how to vote,” and says that voters in Iowa “may be deciding if Republicans are becoming a different kind of party.”
If? If??
Turns out that when you define your party a certain way for a two or three decades, people actually start to believe it, and that definition can, in fact, become your party.
According to Andrew Sullivan, “it is certainly too late for fellow-traveling Christianists like Lowry and Krauthammer to start whining now. This is their party. And they asked for every last bit of it.”
The Republican establishment is tying itself in knots trying to land on a publicly acceptable rationale for their Huckabhorrence (I told you, it’s irresistible). Some criticize his “fair tax” plan — but since when have nutty economic plans ever disqualified a Republican presidential candidate?
No, the real reason is class. As Kevin Drum puts it, “mainstream conservatives are mostly urban sophisticates with a libertarian bent, not rural evangelicals with a social conservative bent. They’re happy to talk up NASCAR and pickup trucks in public, but in real life they mostly couldn’t care less about either. Ditto for opposing abortion and the odd bit of gay bashing via proxy. But when it comes to Ten Commandments monuments and end times eschatology, they shiver inside just like any mainstream liberal.”
As Steve Benen writes at TPM, “The Republican Party’s religious right base is supposed to be seen, not heard. Candidates are supposed to pander to this crowd, not actually come from this crowd.”
They want their base to be a kind of electoral cicada: wake up every four years, vote, and then go underground and shut-up.
Will Huckabee win the nomination? No one knows. But win or lose, I can’t see this genie going back in the bottle. One danger for the Huckabee haters is that right wing social positions aren’t the only thing they’ve been nurturing for 30 years — there’s also this sense of aggrieved, martyred hatred of “the elites.” Of course, it’s usually completely manufactured. But this time, there really is a group looking down its nose at the evangelicals — and it’s not godless liberals. It’s the supporters of Romney, McCain, Thompson and Giuliani. So what’s going to happen when evangelicals realize this and tap into the hatred of “the elites” the GOP establishment has been whipping up in them for three decades?
Mark Kleiman points out that Huckabee is the only non-millionaire among the serious GOP contenders, and the only one who doesn’t court what Kevin Drum calls the “money-cons” — those Republicans for whom globalization is the only true religion.
Republicans have been running on a faux populist/religiously conservative platform ever since Richard Nixon. It was refined and heightened by Lee Atwater and again by Karl Rove. And now that they have a rising candidate who truly represents that platform, the movers and shakers of the party are doing all they can to kneecap him.
But as the Good Book says: “Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”
– from huffingtonpost.com
Global warming is happening regardless if it’s man made or a natural cycle..the earth is going to change dramatically in the next 100 years, you might as well get used to it. I’m not sure why anyone would be in denial about it, because it’s reality whether you want to believe it or not.I just hope I can get in a lot more scuba diving before all the corals die..we’re seeing too much of that already. As the oceans warm and the levels rise, everything in the ocean will change along with the land.
I see we have the unmitigated absurdity that is Pascal’s Wager here today.
Sigh.
Ksgrm and Nathan, you put the wager into a dichotomy. The old, if I as a Christian and I am right, you have more to lose than if you are right and I am wrong.
It isn’t anywhere near that simple.
1) Christian is right and other is wrong: Christian goes to heaven and other goes to hellor is otherwise punished in the afterlife.
2) Other is right and Christian is wrong: Both die and that’s it.
But it hardly stops there:
3) Other and Christian are both wrong, but Muslim is correct: Both go to Hell or are otherwise punished in the afterlife. This applies to any deity that cares about what people think and rewards or punishes them in the afterlife that is not Christian, or is other Christian. The deity may even be unknown and frustrated because everyone got it wrong.
4) Both are wrong but deity doesn’t care and both have a good afterlife.
5) Both are wrong but deity doesn’t care and there is no afterlife.
6) Both are wrong because deity is a malicious sod and everyone is punished in the afterlife.
7) Both are wrong but deity doesn’t care about that, it cares about some other aspect of how people live their lives, and rewards them for that.
8) Both are wrong because there is no deity, but there is an afterlife.
Pascal’s Wager encompasses the worst sort of cultural chauvanism because it assumes that one or the other. It comes from Chritians who think that the only question regarding afterlife is whether their belief is true.
Stop insulting our and your own intelligence by using it. Please.
“Every time we have a heat wave in the summer, the global warming alarmists cite that heat wave as evidence of global warming.”
Posted by Max.
You seem to be confused.
A particular weather event cannot be said to be caused by climate change. Climate change only increases the chances of events like heat waves, like a loaded dice.
Some climate FAQ’shttp://www.wmo.ch/pages/prog/wcp/ccl/faqs.html“The classical period is 30 years, as defined by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO).”
And there are data sets for sea ice prior to the satellite data.
“Every time we have a heat wave in the summer, the global warming alarmists cite that heat wave as evidence of global warming.
“During the snow storm today, global warming people say this is just weather.
“So short term weather is evidence of climate change only during heat waves.
“Very confused bunch these GW people are.”
Boy, you are sure beating the heck out of that straw man. The only people I see who regularly point to the weather of the day as it relates to global warming are the skeptics. Certainly, cosmos has been very clear that he knows the difference between climate and weather.
Therefore your claim of confusion in the global warming camp is itself confused, because you are arguing with your own creation, not an actual opponent.
Do you realize how many problems would go away if NO ONE believed in an afterlife? The possibilities are endless…just think about it for awhile.
Of course it’s much easier to believe..it would be hard knowing that when a loved one dies, you never see them again. Or if your life is bad, you could look forward to something better than what you have after you die.I’d rather just believe this is all there is..that way I’m totally focused on having the best life I can possibly have, making my heaven right here on earth.
What made Bill Gates rich was Bill Gates’ desire to become rich, extremely high IQ, and a world that was willing to give nerds opportunities to get rich.
The PC was a government product that private entrepreneurs glommed onto. The integrated circuit was independently invented at Texas Instruments in Austin and Fairchild Semiconductor in Santa Clara under federal contracts for light and small military aircraft and NASA space vehicle signal processors. Earthbound electronics devices didn’t need to be small and lightweight.
The “computer home-brew club”, convening weekly meetings in a classroom at Stanford, was primarily comprised of federal-research-grant-funded Stanford computer science and electrical engineering faculty, Lockheed-Sunnyvale engineers and a few of their sons (e.g. the Steve Jobs and Wosniak). They invented the first personal computers, using Z80A and 8080 microprocessors developed with federal funding, as there were originally no significant private-sector applications for these devices.
Gary Kildall created the CP/M operating system for microcomputers while working at the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School, which was cloned by and then modified by Seattlite Tim Patterson, who sold his software (not just rights, but the whole package) to Bill Gates, who with his friends added some additional evolutionary, not revolutionary, features and called it MS-DOS.
So MS-DOS’s “backbone” was invented by a Department of Defense employee, and the hardware it ran on is traceable to DOD funded electronics projects.
The electronic digital computer per se traces back to ENIAC, a Department of Defense-funded project at the University of Pennsylvania.
On drug development, without NSF and NIH basic-research funding, and generous Medicare drug-payment allowances that provided revenues for drug industry R&D, there would be no modern drugs. The first “Wonder Vaccine”, for polio, was generated through federal basic-science virology and government-funded clinical trials. James Watson co-discovered the structure of DNA on a federally-funded fellowship.
I’m not making a judgment whether these things are better than if the government took a hands-off position in science and technology development, but this is the way things are.
The Morrill Act of 1862 created land grants for public agriculture and mechanical arts colleges to develop and teach research-based scientific principles to farmers, and train an army of American engineers. The War and Navy Departments in WWII invited scientists and engineers to develop war machines, generously federally funded, and laid the foundation for modern science then and thereafter with federally-funded university and corporate advanced research grants and contracts. Even scientists and engineers who received no federal funding for their private-corporation research got their degrees with federal undergraduate and graduate grants and loans.
If the afterlife is so great then why aren’t Christians just dying to get there? Why waste your time here when there is paradise the moment after you die? Why weep when a friend dies you should all be cheering that people die so they can get to heaven. Abortions are great because the fetuses can spend eternity in heaven rather than risk eternal damnation by being born. Applaud suicide bombers who die for their god because they’ll be going to heaven and taking a dozen others to heaven too. Thank the 9/11 hijackers for sending nearly 3,000 people to heaven. Why bother getting surgery or taking medication to prolong your life, just die and get into heaven a day sooner.
Somehow Christians want us non-believers to join in their belief but why when their actions show that they have doubts.
Posted by: Mary Caruso,”Do you realize how many problems would go away if NO ONE believed in an afterlife?…I’d rather just believe this is all there is..”
Mary, very sadly you may just get your wish. The choice is yours.
All I know is all the misery I’ve seen caused by religious beliefs, and how people’s lives could have been better if they made healthy choices rather than choices they felt compelled to make due to their fear of eternal damnation.For example, when I was growing up, the Catholic Church taught that using birth control was a sin..I knew many families who lived in poverty because they had more children than they could reasonably take care of, and then there were the negative effects on a woman’s health because she had given birth to 12 kids.I knew many Catholics who were stuck in loveless, even abusive marriages because they believed divorce was a sin and even if you were brave enough to get a divorce, you couldn’t remarry and still continue to receive the sacraments.How many parents have disowned their gay child because of how the bible (and therefore God) views homosexuality?And on a bigger scale, how many cultures have been exterminated in the name of God?I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again..I think religion is one of the most destructive man made forces on earth.
Wow.
My son and I just got back from a walking trip to the store.
Two words.
Stay home.
Just crossing the parking lot, we had to help two cars get un stuck. Then I had to help the neighbor lady get her car up the driveway. They were on Kellogg just before it was closed. People stuck everywhere.
And that wind has teeth! It DOES seem the snow has stopped.
I too think the world would be a better place without the comfort of an afterlife. If everybody played it like our little stretch of years is all we get, there might be a whole lot less greed and friction in the world.
The twisted, inappropriate exercise of man made religion may well be, as you put it, “one of the most destructive man made forces on earth”.Genuine faith isn’t.
Faith is just belief contrary to fact. It’s not a virtue, it’s a destructive concept that allows a person to justify atrocities.
But “genuine faith” is in the eye of the beholder.
My sister, who almost lost her life giving birth after she was told by her doctor not to have any more kids, would insist that her faith was genuine.I’m sure Fred Phelps would say the same thing.
I was seeing patients since 6 am, and I almost didn’t make it home today..they closed Kellogg right after I got to Goddard. I never saw so many cars in the ditches..and the weirdest thing was the thunder and lightning while it was snowing hard this morning! I’ve never seen anything like it.
People of faith find fact over and over in their lives that support their faith. Of course if one has never had faith, or tried, they wouldn’t know of course. Many have eyes, but they see not; they have ears, but they hear not; they have intellect, but they discern not. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise.
I haven’t seen snow this bad since I lived in Alaska. I never bought a snow shovel after moving here because winter was practically non-existent. However my job wanted me to show up. I figured that since they don’t provide me with health insurance I’m not going to risk injury trying to get there. So everyone’s junk mail can just wait another day to be delivered.
But God wanted it to snow so people could lose their lives in this weather and that’s a good thing because they’ll be going to heaven.
Google the words “Science Consensus” and you get 5 1/2 million hits.
Posted by: David B | December 22, 2007 at 02:21 PM
Google the word “ghost” and you get 155,000,000 hits.
So what’s your point?
Correlation is not causation.
30 year climate cycle - Gore is hoping to be correct - because by thr time people in his age category, they will be worrying about whether they want prunes or mush for breakfast.
God and guns. Get a religious military dedicated to your deity and kill in his name all the unbelievers. Some may say that’s the views of Hamas, but it’s also the view of Christian fundamentalists in America who recruit and indoctrinate soldiers into holy warriors.
Of course they rape American teenagers just as much as Iraqi women. What a wonderful Christian country.
Posted by: Doug | December 22, 2007 at 01:40 PM
Doug when you make a person attack on something as sacred to me as my religion then you obviously go it to get a response. Don’t act surprised when that happens.
‘Perhaps you’ve never heard of HR 847, but that’s your fault, not mine. I suppose you get all your news from Jay Leno and have been in a drought recently because of the writer’s strike.http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:2:./temp/~c110hc0Cob::
Posted by: Doug | December 22, 2007 at 02:09 PM”
Doug no one accused you of making up stories. I questioned the blanket statement you made about ALL Christian fundementalists. I explained to you that was beyond you. Obviously you were wanting to start an argument and I wouldn’t bite.
Don’t ask me questions about my faith if you really don’t want to hear. My faith is personal but if others are interested I will share it with them.
“If the afterlife is so great then why aren’t Christians just dying to get there? Why waste your time here when there is paradise the moment after you die?” - Doug
I couldn’t imagine living life without knowing what was going to happen when I die. And while a Christian may look forward to heaven, the survival instinct is strong too. I don’t fear death, but I don’t want to die. I have work to do.
—————-”Why weep when a friend dies you should all be cheering that people die so they can get to heaven?”-Doug
You are correct in the sense that when Christians weep for a believer who dies, we are not weeping for them, but for ourselves. But isn’t that true of everyone?
—————–”Abortions are great because the fetuses can spend eternity in heaven rather than risk eternal damnation by being born.” -Doug
Life is a precious gift of God. It is not yours, or the abortionists to take away.
———————
“Applaud suicide bombers who die for their god because they’ll be going to heaven and taking a dozen others to heaven too. -Doug
That’s what they think!
—————-
Thank the 9/11 hijackers for sending nearly 3,000 people to heaven.” -Doug
Once again, human life, a gift of God is taken by those who have no right to do so.
No one can know anothers eternal fate. We cannot know whether a person has accepted God’s free offer of salvation. While on this earth, they have that opportunity. So while there is life, there is hope for eternal life. When you die, the “die” has been cast.
The CIA, and thus the Administration impeded the 9/11 commission by not turning over the tapes. Anyone surprised?http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071221/ts_nm/usa_qaeda_gates_dc_2
“Correlation is not causation.”
Posted by kansas
Increased radiative forcing from human-added greenhouse gases is causation.
Out of the scientists mentioned by the IPCC making statements on Climate, only 52 are Climatologists.
The statement about “consensus?”
About 12 members on the governing board by the American Meteorological Society.
The rank and file of the AMS never had a vote or a say.
Science is not a show of hands….
Correlation and Causation.
During most of the 20th century, CO2 was rising, yet the temperatures were falling. Where is the correlation and causation?
The predicted patterns of climate models have not matched observations of Scientists around the world.
Who benefits from the Global Warming Scare?
Greenpeace, the Sierra Club and the Environmental Defense Fund have raked in billions of dollars.
Carbon Credit trading schemes are at 100 billion a year and that’s a conservative estimate.
Brokers get large fees and those who operating the schemes are getting filthy rich.
The Ponzi scheme, Carbon Credit traders thank you from the bottom of their wallets.
“Doug when you make a person attack on something as sacred to me as my religion then you obviously go it to get a response. Don’t act surprised when that happens.” -ksgrm
Why should I curb my actions because you hold something sacred? That’s your own problem. Should you get special treatment because you think some Jew on a stick who thought keeping virgins as sex slaves is a really neat guy? Nope, sorry your highness, your opinions held in the same regard as everyone else’s, open to ridicule. That’s life, deal with it or kill yourself and get to heaven where you don’t have to deal with thinking people anymore.
“No one can know anothers eternal fate. We cannot know whether a person has accepted God’s free offer of salvation. While on this earth, they have that opportunity. So while there is life, there is hope for eternal life. When you die, the “die” has been cast.” –Outlander
I know everyone’s eternal fate. Everyone will die and their body will rot and become fertilizer. You can open up any grave and find this out to be the case. Your belief that people can become the undead has never been supported in reality even if your bible says zombies are real.
So your offer isn’t free, it requires me to do away with common sense and deny reality. That’s too high of a price.
“So your offer isn’t free, it requires me to do away with common sense and deny reality. That’s too high of a price.”
Actually, it’s Gods offer. And it requires a leap of faith. Not everyone is willing to do it.
Isn’t it great that God gave us free will?
I’d like to propose something revoulutionary in blogging.
I believe fighting efforts to mitigate global warming is irresponsible and maybe dangerous in the long term.
Secondly? Efforts to reduce carbon emissions are GOOD. They will help our planet and may lead to an end to our dependence on oil.
Therefore, I want to take at least one “voice” that I say is dead wrong out of the discussion. I want one person who is fighting what I call a good thing to fall silent.
This is my offer. I will agree with one blogger on the following. You will not post as to global warming again, ever.
In return, I will agree to not post on an issue that my “partner” designates. Terrorism for example.Or perhaps a womans right to choose.
My only proviso is I get the call on who my “partner” is.
Anybody wanna dance?
Oooooh, it’s god’s offer and you are just his salesman. Nice to place yourself so high and mighty to speak for the supposed high and almighty. If that isn’t arrogance I don’t know what is.
CASTIGLIONE DI CERVIA, Italy — Panic was spreading this August through this tidy village of 2,000 as one person after another fell ill with weeks of high fever, exhaustion and excruciating bone pain…
“At one point, I simply couldn’t stand up to get out of the car,” said Antonio Ciano, 62, an elegant retiree in a pashmina scarf and trendy blue glasses. “I fell. I thought, O.K., my time is up. I’m going to die. It was really that dramatic.”
By midmonth, more than 100 people had come down with the same malady.
“This is the first case of an epidemic of a tropical disease in a developed, European country,” said Dr. Roberto Bertollini, director of the World Health Organization’s Health and Environment program. “Climate change creates conditions that make it easier for this mosquito to survive and it opens the door to diseases that didn’t exist here previously. This is a real issue. Now, today. It is not something a crazy environmentalist is warning about.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/world/europe/23virus.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
“Correlation and Causation.
During most of the 20th century, CO2 was rising, yet the temperatures were falling. Where is the correlation and causation?”
Posted by kansas
I guess kansas doesn’t know about sulfates.
‘Climate MYTHS: The cooling after 1940 shows CO2 does not cause warming’http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11639
“The mid-century cooling appears to have been largely due to a high concentration of sulphate aerosols in the atmosphere, emitted by industrial activities and volcanic eruptions.”
Kansas: “The predicted patterns of climate models have not matched observations of Scientists around the world.”
Dr. Hansen’s 1988 predictions closely matched what happened.
And these multiple runs using both past natural AND anthropogenic factors are close to observations.http://environment.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn11649/dn11649-1_688.jpg
“This is the first case of an epidemic of a tropical disease in a developed, European country,” said Dr. Roberto Bertollini, director of the World Health Organization’s Health and Environment program. “Climate change creates conditions that make it easier for this mosquito to survive and it opens the door to diseases that didn’t exist here previously. This is a real issue. Now, today. It is not something a crazy environmentalist is warning about.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/world/europe/23virus.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Posted by: David B | December 22, 2007 at 08:11 PM
That’s an out and out lie David B.
“At the end of World War II, malaria was still present in vast areas of Italy, mainly in the central and southern regions and major islands and along northeastern coastal areas, with offshoots of hypoendemicity in the Pianura Padana (1). The three vectors were Anopheles labranchiae Falleroni and An. sacharovi Favre, both belonging to the so-called maculipennis complex, and An. superpictus Grassi (2). An. labranchiae was the principal vector in the central and southern coastal areas, Sicily, and Sardinia.” http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol7no6/romi.htm
——————–cosmos using his tap dance routines again, when his consensus science fails him.
I mention co2 - cosmos brings up sulfates.
Anyone know of any sulfate trading schemes like Carbon Credits?
I bring up computer model predictions, cosmos brings up a single scientist - Hansen.
tap dance, tap dance, tap dance…
All one has to do is look at any co2 and temperature chart and it is quite apparent that most of the temperatures dipped down in the 20th century while co2 was rising. Go ahead, take a look - you’ll see I’m right about this.
The reason?
Because co2 always lags behind temperature change. The natural cycle of co2 release is caused by release of ocean sinks releasing their stored carbon. This can take hundreds of years and will directly affect the amount of co2 that is released in the atmosphere.
“Anyone know of any sulfate trading schemes like Carbon Credits?”
Posted by kansasAnd who traded the emissions from the large eruption of Mount Agung in 1963???
“I bring up computer model predictions, cosmos brings up a single scientist - Hansen.”
Did Dr. Hansen write all 14 computer climate models shown in that 2007 IPCC graph?
“The reason?
Because co2 always lags behind temperature change.”
Not if humans CAUSE the rise, by burning HUGE amounts of fossil fuels, and land changes. Plus they add methane, N20, CFC’s, etc.
cosmos appears to be avoiding co2 and blaming everything else?
Are GW alarmist flip flopping on their positions now?
Oh wait, nothing has changed, they’ve always flip flopped.
This will go over like a lead balloon. Shiites intend on disbanding Sunni Militias. Trust Us.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071223/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_071218202103
Or maybe sooner?
‘Global Warming Could Kill World’s Coral Reefs in 50 Years’http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/dec2007/2007-12-21-03.asp
Overfishing, water disturbance and contamination by humans from coastal areas are primarily the blame for Coral Reef decline.
Global warming and pollution are among the modern-day threats commonly blamed for decline of coral reefs, but new research shows the downfall of those resplendent and diverse signatures of tropical oceans actually may have begun centuries ago.
In isolated areas away from man, coral reefs such as those in Papua New Guinea are healthy and growing.
According to a paper set to appear Friday (8/15) in the journal Science, the downward spiral started when people first began killing off reef-frequenting large fish, turtles, seals and other top predators or herbivores – a process that started thousands of years ago in some parts of the world and just a century or so ago in others.
Temperatures were the warmest in 100 years, and many species of corals died, with some reefs losing up to half of their coral cover within two months.
“Our study shows that bacteria are the front line that kill corals,” Smith explained. “Algae release sugar, fueling bacterial growth on the corals. These bacteria suffocate the coral by cutting off the supply of oxygen. Once the corals die, this frees more space for more algae to grow. We think this process sets up a positive feedback loop that accelerates the rate of decline in already damaged reef ecosystems.”
The report describes the other conditions that put coral reefs at risk. Overfishing reduces the number of fish that graze on algae, thus increasing the amount of algae on the reef. Nutrients from sewage and agricultural run-off fertilize the algae. Warmer water and more intense hurricanes resulting from global climate change are also blamed for coral death.
San Diego’s Scripps Institution of Oceanography.
August 2003, four years ago,’Coral Reefs’ Decline Actually Began Centuries Ago, New Research Shows’http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/08/030818071208.htm
2007,’Indo-Pacific Coral Reefs Disappearing More Rapidly Than Expected’http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070808082051.htm
‘Oceanic Acidity: Researcher Outlines Coral’s Future In An Increasingly Acidic Ocean’http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060220231628.htm
‘Oceans May Soon Be More Corrosive Than When The Dinosaurs Died’http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060220232335.htm
cosmos is denying a world class institute of oceanographic studies at Scripps Institute by using op ed pieces that use the World Wildlife Fund as their source of information.
The World Wildlife Fund (WWF) is one of the organizations that have their hand out to gullible countries and corporate sponsors using scare tactics such as Global Warming.
The WWF use scare tactics so they can get funds from gullible people who don’t challenge their reports.
Notice the word “Fund” in WWF title. Money grubbers all.
Regardless of whether global warming is natural or man made, what does it hurt to clean up our act and try to keep the damage caused by our existance in check?All you good Christians believe that God made man the steward of the earth..I’d think you’d be the biggest environmentalists of all.
Wow, another thread disolves into a he said/he said pillow fight.
Besides, the WWF (World Wrestling Federation) doesn’t do global warming, do they?
Why is it we only care about what we can see and feel in our narrow little worlds? The world is a big place and taking care of it should be #1. When I see what’s happening to our beautiful oceans I want to cry…most people are oblivious to 70% of our world, because it doesn’t affect their everyday life. Mankind has got to quit being so narcissisitic if we ever plan to survive and perserve our beautiful earth.
WWF=World Wildlife Fund
It’s an excellent organization that does as much to promote and conserve wildlife as any organization in the world. It is truly worldwide and non-partisan and it has so much to do it doesn’t need global warming for fund raising opportunities.
World Wrestling Entertainment changed their name largely, I think, because of the confusion.
Kansas is full of it.
Kansas, as usual, is “overflowing”. Compare his unattributed post with Dr. Harvell’s page.
“… a process that started thousands of years ago in some parts of the world and just a century or so ago in others.
Temperatures were the warmest in 100 years, and many species of corals died, with some reefs losing up to half of their coral cover within two months….”
Posted by: Kansas | December 22, 2007 at 11:24 PM
http://www.ccmr.cornell.edu/education/ask/index.html?quid=1291
“… and the incidence of bleaching events is increasing with global warming. As an example, the most recent, large-scale bleaching event in the Caribbean occurred two years ago during the fall of 2005.
Temperatures were the warmest in 100 years, and many species of corals died, with some reefs losing up to half of their coral cover within two months.”
Notice how cosmos always compares what I write with a completely different Website from which I quoted.
He is deceptive like that and posts many false mesages.
Diving among the reefs for the last 8 years has been one of the most valuble experiences of my life. I feel so fortunate to have explored many places in the Caribbean and the world’s oceans in general. The world under the sea is the most beautiful you’ll ever see..too bad more people don’t have the desire to experience it, because it’s life changing.I’m so lucky to have seen the reefs before they die. Life is fragile, handle with care.
“Notice how cosmos always compares what I write with a completely different Website from which I quoted.”
Posted by kansas
And which “Website” did kansas quote from, if it wasn’t ‘Ask A Scientist!’ answering a question from a 7th grader?
http://www.ccmr.cornell.edu/education/ask/index.html?quid=1291
cosmos guessed wrong again.
But that’s the deception that he does every time he posts.
Mary,
I’ve had the discussion in Church about how as a group we could promote environmental causes. Unfortunately, they typically favor enacting laws to promote the proper stewardship of God’s Kingdom. When told that using the government as the means to the end eventually boils down forcing it upon society you get some shocked people.
I’m always disappointed in that nobody ever wants to use the church itself to promote ‘green’ causes. Even putting a basic recycling center on the property is shot down. Apparently it would be an ugly blight on the multi-million dollar house of humility.
We have recycling at our Church.
And your Church is right, a church shouldn’t be used to promote other causes other than what the Church represents. The line becomes fuzzy if you do that.
Where does it stop? Political, promotion of a certain charity only, environment or where is the line?
Join the Sierra Club if you want to do the environment thing.
Big nice pretty buildings that 90% of the time are unoccupied and unused.
I say that is a waste.
Actually Kansas, the church leadership favors a ‘more government’ approach to achieving goals.
I’ve had some rather disappointing conversations with the head pastor and such. It’s why I will not give money to the church, but rather I seek out Christian charities with more sensible methods.
“cosmos guessed wrong again.”
Posted by kansas
The only way that kansas can PROVE that I “guessed wrong” is post a different link than the ‘Ask A Scientist!’ link answering a question from a 7th grader.
But kansas will probably not do that. :)
“Join the Sierra Club if you want to do the environment thing.”
Posted by: kansas
Post lies about the Sierra Club on the WE Blog if you don’t.
That’s one thing predictable about Libs, is that they are always bitter and have something bad to say about anything not in their agenda.
The only way that kansas can PROVE that I “guessed wrong” is post a different link than the ‘Ask A Scientist!’ link answering a question from a 7th grader.
But kansas will probably not do that. :)
Posted by: cosmos | December 23, 2007 at 08:59 PM
Last phrase of second paragraph.
http://news.ufl.edu/2003/08/14/coraldecline/
Of course, cosmos will never admit he is, was and will be wrong about anything.
The only thing cosmos does is ad hominem, call people liars and tries to discredit them.
cosmos is not interested in discussing the science, be cosmos is not a scientist.
should read, “because cosmos is not a scientist.”
I would like to let the tax payer of K ansas know that there is a maximum security prison here in kansas that is disguised as a treatment center for sex offenders. It is run and funded by the SRS. It cost the people of Kansas about $150,000. per person per year to keep them locked up. I understand that some of them need treatment just not behind bars without charges. One man was charged more than $153. for a pregnancy test and when he questioned it they took it off. How many others have been charged for things like this. This place needs to be investigated and restructured so that the men can get out. This is the Sexual Predetor Treatment Center at Larned, Ks.
kansas,
Thank you for proving that you’re a “arm flailing”, zero credibilty, lying troll.
Your news.ufl.edu link is the same as the ‘Coral Reefs’ Decline Actually Began Centuries Ago, New Research Shows’ that I posted at December 22, 2007, 11:40 PM.Which kansas attacked as a WWF op-ed…
Parts of kansas’ earlier post, like,
“Temperatures were the warmest in 100 years, and many species of corals died, with some reefs losing up to half of their coral cover within two months….San Diego’s Scripps Institution of Oceanography.”
Posted by: kansas | December 22, 2007 at 11:24 PM
is NOT at kansas’ news.ufl.edu link.
But “Temperatures were the warmest in 100 years,..” is at,http://www.ccmr.cornell.edu/education/ask/index.html?quid=1291
as I correctly stated earlier today at 05:41 PM.
So come on kansas… flail your arms, make some more false ad hominem attacks, etc, and prove yet again what a stupid troll you are.
Or melt down. Or slink away…
This is an interesting graph.
Note the global warming and CO2 cycles that occurred roughly every 100,000 years.
And 20,000 years ago, we entered our latest warming cycle.
Caused by man this time though, yes siree.
http://www.placergop.org/_content/gw.jpg
Information composited from two different links.
There is no grade here for foot notes cosmos, get over yourself.
“Temperatures were the warmest in 100 years, and many species of corals died, with some reefs losing up to half of their coral cover within two months.”
cosmos asked me to prove I didn’t get the above statement from the following Website - read his statement:
And which “Website” did kansas quote from, if it wasn’t ‘Ask A Scientist!’ answering a question from a 7th grader?
http://www.ccmr.cornell.edu/education/ask/index.html?quid=1291
So I proved that I didn’t get it from that Website and proved cosmos wrong.
I posted where I got the statement from here:
http://news.ufl.edu/2003/08/14/coraldecline/
Notice how cosmos reacts when he gets proven wrong at his post here.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/12/open-thread–19.html#comment-94686072
Evidently, cosmos can’t handle the truth when he sees it.
What’s gonna happen to cosmos when his carbon credit based Global Warming scam based, politically driven science gets proven wrong?
More than likely, cosmos will retreat to the backwoods of Montana and do a “Theodore Kaczynski.”
Are humans causing warming on Mars too?
Or perhaps the SUN is warming both Earth and Mars.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece
April 29, 2007
Climate change hits MarsMars is being hit by rapid climate change and it is happening so fast that the red planet could lose its southern ice cap, writes Jonathan Leake.
Scientists from Nasa say that Mars has warmed by about 0.5C since the 1970s. This is similar to the warming experienced on Earth over approximately the same period.
“kansas”?
Is it a good thing for this country to get away from the use of fossil fuels?
Same question to Max.
DNFTT
“Note the global warming and CO2 cycles that occurred roughly every 100,000 years.”
Posted by Max
Max, if you’re interested in palaeoclimate, you really should read Chapter 6 at, http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-wg1.htm
Al Gore’s AIT documentary, and book (page 67) also have that CO2 and temperature graph.
“Are humans causing warming on Mars too?
Or perhaps the SUN is warming both Earth and Mars.”
Posted by: Max | December 23, 2007 at 11:00 PM
OR perhaps Max should READ what his own link says,
“The mechanism at work on Mars appears, however, to be different from that on Earth. One of the researchers, Lori Fenton, believes variations in radiation and temperature across the surface of the Red Planet are generating strong winds.
In a paper published in the journal Nature, she suggests that such winds can stir up giant dust storms, trapping heat and raising the planet’s temperature.”
Photos and more details at,http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-on-mars.htm
Other planets in out solar system,http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php?a=2
Part of the scientific consensus on global warming may be flawed, a new study asserts.
Science Daily (Dec. 12, 2007) — A new study comparing the composite output of 22 leading global climate models with actual climate data finds that the models do an unsatisfactory job of mimicking climate change in key portions of the atmosphere.
The researchers compared predictions of 22 widely used climate “models” — elaborate schematics that try to forecast how the global weather system will behave — with actual readings gathered by surface stations, weather balloons and orbiting satellites over the past three decades.
The study, published online this week in the International Journal of Climatology, found that while most of the models predicted that the middle and upper parts of the troposphere —1 to 6 miles above the Earth’s surface — would have warmed drastically over the past 30 years, actual observations showed only a little warming, especially over tropical regions.
“Can the models accurately explain the climate from the recent past? It seems that the answer is no,” said lead study author David H. Douglass, a physicist specializing in climate at the University of Rochester.Douglass and his co-authors S. Fred Singer, a physicist at the University of Virginia, and John R. Christy, a climatologist at the University of Alabama at Huntsville, are noted global-warming skeptics.
However, Christy was a major contributor to the 2001 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and is one of the world’s premier authorities on collection and analysis of satellite-derived temperature data, having been commended by both NASA and the American Meteorological Society for his efforts.
“We do not see accelerated warming in the tropical troposphere,” said Christy. “Instead, the lower and middle atmosphere are warming the same or less than the surface.”
The difference between the climate models and the satellite data has been known for several years.
Studies in 2005 found that improper compensation for temperature differences between day and night was the cause of most of the satellite-data discrepancy, a correction that Christy has accepted.
No explanation has been put forth for the weather-balloon discrepancy.
The 22 climate models used in this study are the same models used by the UN Intergovernmental Panel of Climate Change (IPCC), which recently shared a Nobel Peace Prize with former Vice President Al Gore.
“Instead of averaging the model forecasts to get a result whose surface trends match reality, the earlier study looked at the widely scattered range of results from all of the model runs combined. Many of the models had surface trends that were quite different from the actual trend,” Christy said. “Nonetheless, that study concluded that since both the surface and upper atmosphere trends were somewhere in that broad range of model results, any disagreement between the climate data and the models was probably due to faulty data.
“We think our experiment is more robust and provides more meaningful results.”
1)Fox news extract2)Extract from Science Daily http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071211101623.htm3)Extract of http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/117857349/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 (journal of climatology)
‘Tropical tropospheric trends’http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/12/tropical-troposphere-trends/
“Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more!
Some old-timers will remember a series of ‘bombshell’ papers back in 2004 which were going to “knock the stuffing out” of the consensus position on climate change science (see here for example). Needless to say, nothing of the sort happened.
The issue in two of those papers was whether satellite and radiosonde data were globally consistent with model simulations over the same time. Those papers claimed that they weren’t, but they did so based on a great deal of over-confidence in observational data accuracy (see here or here for how that turned out) and an insufficient appreciation of the statistics of trends over short time periods.
Well, the same authors (Douglass, Pearson and Singer, now joined by Christy) are back with a new (but necessarily more constrained) claim, but with the same over-confidence in observational accuracy and a similar lack of appreciation of short term statistics.”
Science details at link.
The illustrious Gavin Schmidt admits that models are not accurate because weather is “noise” and so they average it together. roflmao!
“[Response: Good point. There are two classes of uncertainty in models - one is the systematic bias in any particular metric due to a misrepresentation of the physics etc, the other is uncertainty related to weather (the noise). When you average them together (as in this case), you reduce the uncertainty related to noise considerably. You even reduce the systematic biases somewhat because it turns out that this is also somewhat randomly distributed (i.e. the mean climatology of all the models is a better fit to the real climatology than any one of them). However, in this particular example, we have a great deal of weather noise over this short interval, therefore the spread of the runs due to weather is key. How we distinguish weather-related noise from physics-related noise requires longer time periods, but could perhaps be done. With respect to RAOBCORE, I don’t have a position on which analysis is best (same with the UAH or RSS differences). However, similarly reasonable procedures have come up with very different trends implying that the systematic uncertainty in the obs is at least as large as the weather-related uncertainty. That means it’s hard to come to definitive conclusions (or should be at least). - gavin]”
In other words, when Climate Alarmists find data they can’t understand or don’t agree with, they average it out of existence so their Computer Climate Models will work!
Such bogus science.
Poor kansas… he’s not capable of understanding that “big El Niño events and volcanic eruptions” add “noise” to the “signal” of anthropogenic global warming.
‘Tropical tropospheric trends’http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/12/tropical-troposphere-trends“It’s important to note however, that these are long-term EQUILIBRIUM results and therefore don’t tell you anything about the signal-to-NOISE ratio for any particular time period or with any particular forcings.
…This period, 1979 to present, has seen a fair bit of warming, but also a number of big El Niño events and volcanic eruptions which clearly add NOISE to any potential signal.”
Poor cosmos doesn’t understand that El Ninjo and La Ninja trigger more climate events than the entire history of mankind combined.
Noise - right. lmao!
Last couple of sub jobs I had paid $50/day for Non-certified… $80 for Certified… makes some extra pocket change…
Even to get an “Emergency Sub. License” (60 hours), one must still submit an application AND fingerprints to the state. That does not ensure that you will get a job. You must still go through the system in order to sub.
Of course, if you aren’t any good, you will be excluded from returning. Good subs. are hard to find……..another reason why I don’t miss many days.
I was certified to be a sub in Oklahoma and Kansas. It’s not a big deal - submit paperwork, college transcript and get character references. Took about a month or two as I recall.
I was called often till I had to quit for health reasons. Now that I have a few corrective surgeries done, I will be giving it another shot. I love kids and interacting with them.
I signed up for the BD, LD, Science and Math classes to substitute because no one else wanted to do them.
I did mostly USD 260. I didn’t sign up for USD 259 as I was called frequently and didn’t have the time to do both.
The only thing I didn’t care for is getting called at ten minutes until 7 and asked to be there at 7:30. :)
I was certified to be a sub in Oklahoma and Kansas. It’s not a big deal - submit paperwork, college transcript and get character references. Took about a month or two as I recall.Posted by: Kansas | December 27, 2007 at 09:45 PM
This may work for Oklahoma, but it will not work for Kansas in 2008. As I posted above: application, fingerprints………..if there are no “issues” from your past, you COULD be hired. If there are “issues”, then your application goes before the Professional Practices Commisssion. That body tends to be somewhat critical of those who have jaded pasts or are less than truthful in their applications.
Fingerprints and past record are no challenge. I have a military ID card that has fingerprints, my fingerprints have been on file since the 1970s. I don’t even have any traffic violations on record nor any thing illegal.
Not sure what you are trying to state there Apophis, there is nothing in my past that disqualifies me.
As I stated before, I’ve already been certified in Kansas and can do it again.
USD260 is Derby School District by the way, thought I mentioned I substituted there.
Sort & Deport
No inferences being made, just statement of fact.
Being a “sub” is a bit more than a baby-sitting job if you are good.
Yes, I know that USD 260 is Derby.
I know substitute teaching is more than baby-sitting. Several of my best moments was helping High School Chemistry students understanding Factor/Label methods in solving problems. Also, helping them with stoichiometry in solving those yield problems.
I liked doing anything but music or band, as I’m not very well versed in those subjects.
Although, I would get assigned to some band classes and I was as you said, a baby-sitter in those as I had no idea what to do in those types of classes. But, that’s all the school required for the band or music classes.
I enjoyed math classes and it was enjoyable helping students overcome their stress and fear solving math problems. Most of the time, it was a factoring or “signs” transposing problem.
Most of the teachers that were familiar with me, were confident in giving me a portion of their lesson plan to carry out. Those who weren’t had a video or some sort of paper exercise to hand out.
It was a pleasurable experience for the most part. The Principles and Vice Principles were mostly “sticks in the mud” but they have a lot of pressure on them, so understandable.
The most boring part was the Teacher’s administrative hour as I had nothing to do during those hours, so I did crossword puzzles or read.
Apophis, I havent been asked for any transcripts… I guess they figure I have two Masters’, they must not want them!! LOL
make that “Principals and Vice Principals”…
They won’t let you do that now Chas. Heck, ten years ago they wouldn’t let you be a Sub without transcripts, background checks and character references.
I had to be certified, get a badge from the school’s office, sign in and check in with the school district for review ever so often.
I don’t think it is different for rural districts, at least not what I can tell.
Well, its been quite a few years since I subbed…
Subs are pretty much invisible except to the District and School’s administrative office that call for them.
There isn’t time to interact with the teachers and the students are always hopeful for a ‘free ride’, which they never got when I was there. :)
I did substitute at a few elementary schools. I can say, I wasn’t cut out to be an elementary school substitute teacher as that requires a special kind of patience and attitude to do. :)
I did however, become quite good at handing out kleenix and doing the ’stare down’ to solve behavioral problems. heh
The Law reads, “anyone can teach a level below their education level as a tutor. A Highschool Senior can teach/tutor a Highschool junior”. All that is required is 1 year above the level that one desires to tutor/rteach and they have a successful level above the years they want to teach. A Highschool graduate can teach all the way up to the junior year highschool. This falls under the PTA and Tutor Laws. It is regulated/discretioned by the Local Public School Boards at all local levels and the State Boards of Education and the Local PTA’s. Herbert West III Publisher/Journalist
HWIII:
Did you ever get your municipal appeal straightened out? As I hope you learned, there doesn’t appear to be anything improper with how Johnson County was proceeding under Kansas statute.
Just curious . . .
Tutors are tutors Mr. West, I’m not familiar with tutor requirements.
The Emergency Substitute Teacher has to be certified by the State of Kansas including background checks, references with associated transcripts and documents submitted.
Always thought the title “Emergency Substitute Teacher” was a bit overboard or should I say an over reaction.
Doc, Doc, Doc . . . your response to my humble little question was quite vituperative.
If you’d bothered to read the article I linked to, you’d find that the academy is slated to open in the fall of 2009, not 2010 as you stated.
And while it’s true that Kansas is far from the first to establish this academy, it’s happening. Now. Finally!
Here’s something you’ve griped about that’s being addressed . . . and instead of supporting the effort, you bash it. Again. And again.
Of course it’s always so much easier to bitch and moan and complain than to actually do something about the issue, like FHSU & ESU & Butler County Community College did.
You sure talk the talk . . . but you’re not walking the walk. If you did, you’d be exhorting your legislators to make sure this academy gets the funding it needs to open.
If your goal was to make a difference, you could do so in this case.
If you’re just looking to vent your bile . . . well, that’s what blogs are for, I guess.
But you can’t pretend anymore that you actually give a flying fig about science/math education in Kansas, or you’d jump at the chance to help.
Thanks for making your true stance crystal clear to all of us!
nunyer………….right to the point again!
Touche’ on MPS!