So much for no one being willing to build a destination casino in Sumner County, as some gaming opponents claimed during the Sedgwick County debate. Four companies have filed proposals, including industry giants Harrah’s Entertainment and MGM Mirage.
Harrah’s wants to build a $500 million resort at the Mulvane exit of the Kansas Turnpike. It would include 275 hotel rooms, a championship golf course, and 30,000 square feet of convention space. And that’s just for the first phase of its development plan.
Harrah’s estimates that its project would annually provide Sumner County $5.5 million in revenue sharing and $12 million in property taxes, plus increased sales tax revenue.
Other proposals project similar revenues. So unless the Kansas Supreme Court rules that the state’s gaming law is unconstitutional, Sumner County will be hitting the jackpot.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
142 Comments
Yep. They will be getting hundreds of jobs and millions of tourist dollars while Wichita sits next door and watches. Maybe Wichita can put a tax on Bibles or something so that the Bible thumpers there can make up some of the millions of dollars Wichita will lose because of their stupidity and desire to control the lives of others. Wichita will watch as taxes in Sumner go down while Wichita’s increase.
Well, Nanny Town…how do you feel about that casino thing now?
It’s mind boggling how civic stupid voters behaved with that vote.
The Eagle negative opinion has to be remembered as well. They were part of the false press, relaying fears Century II was going to become a Casino.
They reported on CEO’s threatening to move businesses downtown, but didn’t chastise them for trying to interfere in a free choice vote.
The Eagle was a negative casino information source.
That Brian Hamm, those Canadians desiring downtown Casino, never properly got a plan in Sumner County.
That’s weird, he spend years considering a Casino here before the others did. Maybe his plan out in the countryside couldn’t compete with the others.
He wanted a downtown Casino. There is City property that needs to be sold and it wasn’t going to be Century II.
We can only hope some Sumner County Casino developers purchases The Hyatt.
City Council failed to support the Casino, played their negative role.
A brand new Mayor at the wrong time, too influenced by those who hated the Casino idea. Those folks that put him in office.
And why do you think the giants are apparantly (I say apparantly, because I’ll believe it when the building’s done) coming?
Because there’s dollars to skim off the suckers, that’s why. If they’re paying all those dollars in taxes, etc., how much do you think is whisked away to the out-of-state corporations in profits? They’re not coming (if they are) because they love us; they’re coming because there is money to be sucked out of dupe’s pockets. Money that will be removed from Kansas’ economy.
And for what? To leave the suckers poorer, with nothing of any substance to show for it.
Yea - it’s a great deal.
Good post, GMC. Exactly right.
And who pays for the water pipes, the sewers, the roads and stoplights, the police and fire protection?
Why . . . the good people of Sumner County, most of whom understand simple statistics and are thus too smart to ever set foot in the place.
Wow, Capn. We agree on something. We may have to share a beer at some point after all!
They get all the revenue, Wichita will get all the addicts who need treatment for their gambling…sounds like a good deal to me…way to go!
Sedgwick County still gets a cut of the revenue - GO READ THE LAW! A destination casino in a large out-of-town setting will draw many more people from outside the city limits than a geographically constrained one downtown could ever hope to get. And, the resort facility will employ mostly Sedgwick County residents - probably more than a downtown one would hire. So the claim that Sedgwick County gets nothing is a falsehood.
As for Mrages whine - YOU LOST IT! AND YOU KNOW WHY! YOU STARTED WITH 70% AND MANAGED TO REDUCE THAT TO 43% - WHAT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT!
I posted long ago the reasons the casino would lose and was proved right. And people like Mrage, in their snit about the casino, sank the slots at the dog track. And it was people like Mrage in their arrogance who doomed the casino!
We’ll be the one paying the price for the money that Sumner County is making….that’s my point. There is only so much money set aside for treatment, and treating gambling addiction will take away resources for other important needs here in Sedgwick County.
So how much will Sedgwick County get, Ben? Will it defray the added costs of treating gambling addiction here? If you look at Sumner County, they don’t have much in the way of resources for treatment programs.
Nothin wrong with any means for the State to raise more money for Socialist programs.
Gambling is great!
So what if it takes away money that would otherwise be spent buying products and services made by people who used to do productive work for a living.
The only jobs we need for our kids are in the casinos.
Many must lose in order for a few to win.
I fail to see how I’m an addict? I’d go drop a hundred or two here or there. My bills are paid. My retirement is funded. My obligations are met!
Some people spend a $10k/year on GOLF! They travel around to differnt courses, green fee’s are $100 bucks now! Some people restore old cars.
What people do with discretionary income is nobodys business. I give to charity, and would only be able to visit a Casino once or twice a year. Like I said, a hundred or two would be all I could risk.
Some people are gambling addicts. Others are like me.
Some peole are lard a$$ and cripled by the fork, who can’t stop shoving food in their pie hole (seems to be a big problem around here.) Others might enjoy a delightful piece of cheese cake sometimes, or snarf down some chips, but otherwise take care of themselves.
Some people are smoking as whey are hooked up to an oxygen tank. Others might have a cigar to celebrate a friends newborn baby, but know better than to start a habit.
Some people are drinking 1/2 gallon of hooch every night as their liver shrivels up. Still others might enjoy a warm buzz as they toast in the New Year, and leave it at that!
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO DO! WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR OF HUMANITY SETS THE PACE FOR THE REST OF US, BECAUSE YOU SAY SO?
YOUR DISPICABLE IF YOU WERE AGAINST THE CASINO! YOU’R THE WORK OF THE DEVIL, BECAUSE ANYBODY ON THE FENCE WHO MIGHT HAVE WANTED TO SEARCH OUT A CHURCH HOME WILL SURELY BE TURNED OFF BY WHAT THEY SAW THE CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT DO DURING THAT ELECTION! IT PUSHED ME OFF THE FENCE, THAT’S FOR SURE!
I believe in Jesus, and I’ll leave it at that, I surely do not want to have anything to do with any church now!
Better to sacrifice the many for the few.
Didn’t Kirk say that to Spock?
On that we agree Mary. However I don’t know that it will increase gambling addiction all that much. We already have gambling in every coner tavern and convenience store with the lottery. It is that ‘too-convenient’ gambling that, IMO, is a bigger problem.
Also, the convenient downtown site would have, again IMO, created more new gamblers than one down the road. That is why so many of us were not in favor of the downtown proposal that the voters soundly defeated.
What people do with discretionary income is nobodys business. SemperFi
No Semper, the Libs will see that those who have too much money have it taken away and given to those who don’t.
It’s the Government’s business. It’s their money in your pocket, not yours.
A gambling is just the way the Government fools you to give your money to the state.
Directly, they take it through many forms of taxes.
But you idiots can be fooled into giving even more, up to your last dime, through flashing lights and advertising, fancy hotels, and $9.95 buffets!
Dopes.
And your the same ones holding your hands out for more Socialist money.
If Sedgwick County will bear the burden for treatment, it’s too bad that we won’t reap the benefits of the addtional revenue also. Only time will tell how it all plays out.
It’s true that you can’t force people to use common sense when it comes to money..personally I work too hard for mine to blow it all on a slot machine.
“A gambling is just the way the Government fools you to give your money to the state.” Max
“From a study by the National Bureau for Economic Research, Harvard University Press: “Legalized gambling acts as a regressive tax on the poor.” Since 70 percent of casino gamblers in non-tourist areas come from fewer than 35 miles away, it is more accurately a tax on Kansas’ poor.” Keny:::Well then I guess I should support it! It’s another way of retrieving some of the Unearned Income Credit (EIC) money they stole from me and gave to the poor.
All Americans should participate in their government equally. Since the poor are exempt from paying anything, and they receive free cheese, housing, school lunches, and college from the rest of us, let’s hope they move up to the dollar slots and skip the quarter room!
You missed the boat, Wichita, as usual. Congrats.
Ok AmWay, agree with you on your 10:42 am post IF:
There is a NET gain in tax revenue from the gambling operations.
That is, tax revenue exceeds whatever money the state spends to support the gambling operation, and whatever government socialist programs the state creates with “Gambling funds” being the justification for the program.
I see government using Gambling Revenue as an EXCUSE to increase spending on Government Socialist programs.
“We have this extra $50 million gambling revenue so let’s increase the state budget by $50 million!”
What’s the GAIN for the taxpayer? Nothin.
If the state would use that $50 million in net gambling revenue to reduce taxes, then MAYBE I could support that.
But that never happens.
I dont think gambling is addictive, drugs I can see chemicals in the brain affecting behavior and all that. Blowing your rent money play the slots that’s just plain old stupidity, ans crying addiction is a way to try the get sympathy, and deflect blame, its “not my fault I’m a addict”
I see government using Gambling Revenue as an EXCUSE to increase spending on Government Socialist programs. Max
I agree with you! I also do not pretend that the NET or even GROSS gain in state/local revenue will equal the amount shelled out for the poor.
But it is nice to have some of that money coming back into the system - it makes me feel good.
And it is the holiday’s and the poor and retired are flocking to Casino’s. Let them spend, let them spend, let them spend!
Tom: You are just plain wrong on gambling being an addiction. Seems like choice to people like you and me. Drinking is too. But look at western Missouri and Eastern Kansas Gambling An support groups. Look it up.
Drinking I can see being addictive again chemicals in booze affect the brain, Playing cards I dont see the same kind of reaction. Again someone who blows their bill money playing slot/bingo what ever is stupid. Crying addict is just a way to gain sympathy and not take responsibility for ones actions. Taking responsibility is something you rarely see in today’s society its easier to have some illness or syndrome to blame for bad behavior
You can thank all the 503’s that benefit from bingo for the failure of the casino. Thats right….I said it. If not for the churches getting up and spreading their lies about how gambling will destroy our community, Wichita would be enjoying the additional revenue the casino would bring. Funny how bingo is not addictive but slot machines are. Whats the difference? Still a game of chance, still have people betting the rent money on hitting a big jackpot. Let’s not misconstrue this into something its not. This had everything to do with the bingo halls having to split their take with a “non profit”. Churches are nothing more that a hustle.
Oh Mike, Mike, Mike.
How low can you get buddy?
Blaming the churches now for the vote and will of the people?
I guess the churches over in Sumner County don’t have the brainwashing abilities they do in Sedgwick?
People vote Mike. Not churches.
Did you expect the churches to tell their Sunday congregations, “Go vote to gamble?”
Now you’d have a problem with too, wouldn’t boy?
Now you would have a problem with churches telling their members to vote for the sin of gambling, wouldn’t you?
Who was on the news every night prior to the election waving the “NO Casino” flag? Church leaders. Why would they care? Because they have a financial interest in the bingo halls.
Did you expect the churches to tell their Sunday congregations, “Go vote to gamble?”Posted by: A. N. Keny | November 29, 2007 at 12:46 PM
I would have preferred them to keep their mouthes closed all together and remember that they enjoy “tax exempt” status to due to the fact that they will not try to influence government. Maybe you should read up on this.
Now you’d have a problem with too, wouldn’t boy?Posted by: A. N. Keny | November 29, 2007 at 12:46 PM
And to address this really quick. First of all, I am a black man and the term “boy” is offensive. And additionally, I am not your “boy”.
“Tom Paine” –
I used to be married to an alcoholic and addict. She’s been sober for a decade or so and we remain fairly good friends.
From her I learned that addiction is a much deeper disease than “chemical dependency.” It’s a mindset that can manifest itself with an array of so-called “drugs of choice.” Yes, there is a chemical aspect to drug addiction and alcoholism. But people really *do* become addicted to eating, to *not* eating, to exercise, to sex, to gambling, to behaviors that most of us non-addicts generaly consider “good” behavior. A “workaholic” is an addict, too, after all, and the behavior can be just as destructive to a person and their loved ones as a smack habit.
It’s an extremely difficult concept for a non-addictive personality to understand. In my life I’ve probably experimented with or been tempted by every vice imaginable. I *know* why some people can get hooked on drugs; drugs feel good. I *know* how people can become sex addicts; sex it pretty nice. I *know* how eating disorders can become addictive; food tastes good and it’s nice to be skinny. But I never ever got it why some people like to gamble; it’s just not part of my make-up.
It’s not my “drug of choice” and I’ll probably never understand it.
Nevertheless, addiction to booze or drugs or food or sex or gambling or work is, from my experience and those I’ve known, a very real phenomenon.
“Crying addict,” as you call it, is not “a way to gain sympathy and not take responsiblity.” In fact, it’s the exact opposite. Recovery from addiction embraces taking responsibility “…to accept the things I cannot change, …to change the things I can’t, and, … to know the difference.”
I should add Mikey, if you were to just post your opinion on the hypocrisy of churches allowing gambling in the form of bingo, I could go along with you.
But my church certainly does not allow bingo, nor promote any form of gambling. But I know others do. It is a sin as is the state lottery.
But that isn’t the deciding factor in this election - just read upthread. You don’t have to read very far.
But there are a number of reasons people voted down the casino. Lot’s of reasons.
But tell me Mikey, what did you want all the gambling revenue for?
What were you going TO DO with it?
And to address this really quick, the blog is color blind, and I don’t care if you are green. I would probably speak that way if you were face to face in front of me, and white. But I did realize this is the politically correct era and people can easily get offended - where none is/was intended and posted a correct.
Even before your response.
But my church certainly does not allow bingo, nor promote any form of gambling. But I know others do. It is a sin as is the state lottery.
But tell me Mikey, what did you want all the gambling revenue for?
What were you going TO DO with it?Posted by: A. N. Keny | November 29, 2007 at 12:55 PM
My name is Mike….not Mikey. I have not disrespected you in such a juvenile way and I would appreciate the same in return.
As for your church not endorsing or benefiting from gambling, good for you. Unfortunately, there are many churches that do. And the leaders of these churches openly campaigned against the casino. Which IMHO, should cause them to loose their tax exempt status. I know you would like to claim the moral high ground on this issue. However, it is not hard to see who had the most to lose if casino gambling would have been approved in that election. And its glaring by who was the loudest neigh sayer in the media prior to the election. Sorry just pointing out the facts.
To address your last statement, I think you can answer your own question about what could have been done with the revenue the casino would have generated.
And its very easy to say that anyone that went to a casino will become some kind of addict. Thats simply not true. I have been to KC, Topeka, St. Louis, and many other cities that have legalized gambling, none of which had a story on the news on how gambling is destroying their communities.
How is gambling a sin? I don’t see in in the “Big 10″ nor in anything else that I have seen.
Does that ’sin’ extend to my friendly wager with my friend about the OU-MU game Saturday?
“I would have preferred them to keep their mouthes closed “Mike
Would you also prefer to live in Communist Russia? China maybe? Or the modern North Korea?
Churches are/were strictly controlled in all those places.
This is still the USA. Well at least until queen Hillary is installed in her chambers in the White House.
I would add that ANK is correct that there were MANY things that sank the casino. I listed them well BEFORE the election when I predicted a 55-45 defeat. I was off a bit in the numbers but my reasoning was sound.
Kahrs did not defeat the casino. Mrage and his crowd did.
Ben, Technically betting on the OU-MU game is illegal unless your doing it in Vegas. Playing a friendly game of Texas Hold-em in your buddies basement is illegal too, but you talk about changing the laws and its the conservatives who come out screaming about moral decay and gambling being a sin.
“I would have preferred them to keep their mouthes closed “Mike
Would you also prefer to live in Communist Russia? China maybe? Or the modern North Korea?
Churches are/were strictly controlled in all those places.
This is still the USA. Well at least until queen Hillary is installed in her chambers in the White House.
Posted by: American Way | November 29, 2007 at 01:14 PM
No. I would prefer that they honor the seperation of Church and State and stay out of politics. Period. They enjoy a tax exempt status to do so. Like I said, if they are willing to give that up….feel free to chime in all you like. But you cannot have it both ways. Yet I forget that being “Christian” allows you to be a hypocrite.
I agree Tom. I would love to see some citizens’ arrests against governors who bet on their teams in Bowl games.
My question here though had to do with how is it sin? Where in the Bible does it say that? By the way, isn’t there also some sort of prohibition on charging interest on money?
No Mike - I need you to tell me what YOU were going to do with the REVENUE earned off the poor people and saps who give it away at the casino.
It’s a big question. I cannot answer it for you. I didn’t see a need for the revenue.
Take a trip to Vegas. Or anywhere in populated Nevada. Spend quite a bit of time in Reno and Fallon Nevada. There are pawn shops on every corner of every block. Why don’t we see those here? Because we don’t have casino’s yet!!!
And of course there are no glaring television articles on gambling anonymous or the hundreds of problem gamblers. Do you see many articles an AA and alcoholics on the nightly news routinely at home? No. The poor, suffering, and blight of our downtown neighborhoods doesn’t hit the sixty second sound byte news.
It only makes sense to build at the Mulvane exit. Just for footsteps. This is a great opportunity for southern Sedgwick county as well. All of a sudden the area on HW 81 south is going to be ripe for development. They might as well capture some of those dollars going back and forth to the Casino.
There are pawn shops on every corner of every block. Why don’t we see those here?
We do - along with payday loan offices.
common sense - excellent points
Take a trip to Vegas. Or anywhere in populated Nevada. Spend quite a bit of time in Reno and Fallon Nevada. There are pawn shops on every corner of every block. Why don’t we see those here? Because we don’t have casino’s yet!!!Posted by: A. N. Keny | November 29, 2007 at 01:23 PM
What’s worse than the pawn shops are the auto pawns, where greedy car lot owners will pay ‘in debt’ gamblers pennies on the dollar for their car.
Wait for it, it will come here too.
Does that ’sin’ extend to my friendly wager with my friend about the OU-MU game Saturday?
Posted by: Ben
Now Ben, I wasn’t debating the merits of the churches arguments, only what I heard from the pulpit.Far be it from me to explain the mysteries of the spirit.
Your wager may be O.K. though because it doesn’t have sin in it.I’m thinking mine on the KU/MU game was a wasted sin, and I am paying for that sin. I do know caSINo has sin right in it.
Take a trip to Vegas. Or anywhere in populated Nevada. Spend quite a bit of time in Reno and Fallon Nevada. There are pawn shops on every corner of every block. Why don’t we see those here? Because we don’t have casino’s yet!!!Posted by: A. N. Keny | November 29, 2007 at 01:23 PM
We have Payday loan shops on every corner. Where is your outrage regarding that? What about the “poor and the saps” that pay 250% interest on a $100 loan? Typical hypocrisy from someone hiding behind their bible
kansas - we have those too - Title Loans.
Well Mike it appears I found a friend (not).
I have every right to vote against casino’s. I didn’t attack you. I didn’t attack your religious beliefs. If there is a thread started about pawn shops, maybe I will express my “opinion”.But since I obviously haven’t seen them on every street corner, well you should be able to logically see why I have no outrage.
Now back to answering my question instead of attacking my beliefs.
What were you going to do with the money Mike? From the casino’s.(The subject of this thread)
Never said that you did not possess the right to vote no for the casino. I simply stated that the lies that were thrown out by the “NO Casino” campaign were backed by those with the most to lose from a casino in this city……the churches. I did not attack your religion. I simply stated my opinion that churches are a hustle.
Since you brought up all of the Pawn Shops in the Nevada area, I thought it would be good to remind you of the 100+ payday loan companies in Wichita. You are right, this thread is not about that. And maybe you should open your eyes next time you are at just about any corner in the city. I guarantee there is a payday loan company within 1.5 miles of you.
And its very easy to say that there is no need for additional tax revenue. That is until they want to raise YOUR property taxes for this project or that project. Then you will be up in arms. I see now.
And no…..I am not your friend.
“They enjoy a tax exempt status to do so. Like I said, if they are willing to give that up….feel free to chime in all you like. But you cannot have it both ways.”Mike
Sorry Mike. We do have the tax exempt status for our churches. Still protected rights. And we do get our weekly dose from the minister on what is right and what is wrong, what is good and what is evil, and whatever our religious leader wants to tell us under free speech rights.
So I guess maybe we do have it both ways!
Is Hillary going to take that away from all the churches too?
Maybe she should. I doubt she will be the next president, but due to the unlimited executive power that this president has made available i would be very worried if I were a reich winger.
Yes you are right. You do have it both ways. Just don’t get your panties in a wad when someone calls you out on it. The muddy lines between church and state is an obvious problem.
As for your minister/pimp. Keep the dollars rolling in. You wouldn’t want to upset God.
its very easy to say that there is no need for additional tax revenue. That is until they want to raise YOUR property taxes for this project or that project. Posted by: Mike
Took a long way to get there, but we are getting closer.
Mike, what exactly were you going to spend the revenue generated from the casino on?
You see I was listen during the promotion by the casino group. Just as you remember the comments by the opponents, I remember those by the promoters.
It appears you have not a clue what you would do with the revenue generated by a casino.You have no idea how much it would generate, now where it would have been spent.
You have zero idea on what YOU personally would have WANTED the revenue spent on. Not a clue.
But somehow you got it in your brain that more REVENUE is good.And you’ve glossed over all the bad that comes with that revenue.
Further, the property taxes continue to rise in many communities where casino’s are built. So whether I vote yes for a casino or no - my taxes are going to go up. I’ve been around the block a few times on that promise by elected officals - at all levels for a few decades.So don’t kid yourself. There is zero promise from elected officials that your taxes would NOT go up, and there is zero promise from your elected officials on what they would do with the revenue generated - for eternity. Some “might” vote on the council to use the revenue to reduce the general fund. Some “might” decide to use the revenue to pay down the existing long term city debt (which is interest charges paid from the general fund, hence also reducing the general fund requirements), Some “might” use it to establish an emergency fund to pay for large emergency needs instead of issuing short term bonds. All of these “might” happen to reduce the need for ad valorem taxes needed to support the general fund.
But it is just as likely as the dreamers would use the revenue to shore up cowtown, support an amusement park, or build statues to themselves.
You don’t know. Politicians are dreamers and most of their dreams take our money. Not all of them are good ones.
By voting NO, we still get a share of the revenue, none of the building headaches, we get jobs, and will share in growth on points nearest the casino. Those of us that want to throw our money down the drain can still partake. Sorry, you will have to drive over the county line. But in almost every community where there is a casino - they start a bus run from kmart/walmart type parking lots. So the poor can travel for free to spend their money.
reduce the general fund/should be “augment or add to” the general fund.
Such concerns about the poor…..totally discredit the valid points made above. Don’t worry….I enjoy driving my Lexus and will enjoy driving it to Sumner county to play golf and poker.
I never thought about what to do with the revenue…but I do know more is better. Like with the 4 million tax payer dollars they used to rebuild the Keeper of the Plains. I do not believe that politicians were behind the casino vote. Either pro or con. I think that the “leaders of the moral majority” lied to their sheep into believing that a casino would be the end of life as they know it. What happened to “personal responsibility”? Isn’t that what the reich wing is all about? Being personally responsible for ones actions? Guess not. Oh wait…..unless its morality….then they are all over it. Hypocrites.
A consideration re: revenue for Sedgwick County. It appears that this ‘mega’ resort will be MUCH larger than the downtown proposals would have been. Thus I would anticipate it will generate more revenue - perhaps even twice as much. That, in turn, leads to more revenue for the government shares. IF it is twice then Sedgwick County will get as much from the casino as the combination of Wichita and Sedgwick County would have gotten from a smaller facility downtown.
And, all without traffic etc issues.
Looking at employment etc the Sumner sites are in easy commuting distance from Wichita. So, the larger number of jobs in a resort destination facility will outweigh the smaller number a downtown facility would have created.
Does gambling cause problems for the surrounding area?Well there was a Dog Track near by that is consider gambling and there is the Lottery that is consider gambling and there is Bingo that is consider to be gambling.
But I do not see any mad-dash of Addiction going on with any of it.
Recently the Dog Track closed down because of lost revenue; the Lottery is not causing record number of people to purchase tickets on a weekly basis, Bingo parlors are all not that lush and flashy and not drawing in record number crowds, so what is with all the hype?
* Answer to my own question – “Ignorance” – maybe?
Why is the assumption that the casino would have been in downtown? Trust me, the corporations that are proposing the Sumner Co. casino would have built the same size casino here. Probably would not have been downtown. Rarely do you find casinos in the downtown area of any city.
Mike - it was that uncertainty that defeated the casino. The Mrage crowd hollared that it MUST be downtown. They even went so far as to vote against the track because they didn’t want it competing with their downtown casino.
As for ‘trust me’ that is what County leaders said during the casino campaign. Sorry but after the Arena there is precious little trust left.
We do not trust local government, yet we trust the Federal Government to rebuild and secure an entire country….(scratching my head).
HHHHMMMMMM…..
Such concerns about the poor…..totally discredit the valid points made above.Mike
Sorry Mike, I did not make that one up on my own. Look at earlier post. You will see the below:
From a study by the National Bureau for Economic Research, Harvard University Press: “Legalized gambling acts as a regressive tax on the poor.” Since 70 percent of casino gamblers in non-tourist areas come from fewer than 35 miles away, it is more accurately a tax on Kansas’ poor.
And who told you they trusted the federal government on this page?
Is that a right winger sighting higher education? Why should we believe this when they are so wrong on Global Warming? Someone is cherry picking. Pick and choose what professors say…..to bolster your argument.
Someone is cherry picking. Pick and choose what professors say…..to bolster your argument.
Posted by: Mike
Right back at ya Mike.
Someone is cherry picking. Pick and choose what professors say…..to bolster your argument.
BTW Mike, the entire study was read in the Kansas house - with many many reasons casino gambling would hurt Kansas and Kansas people, in particular poor people.
I guess that doesn’t register with you, or runs contra-objective, so you:
1) Belittle/call names (rightwinger)2) Imply righwingers don’t have higher education3) Redirect (GW, that was nice)4) twist - cherry picking.
ANK - and I in particular am hardly a ‘reich-winger’ or uneducated.
Ben said….
>That is why so many of us were not in favor of the downtown proposal that the voters soundly defeated.
What downtown proposal? It was an idea! That wasn’t the question in the Casino vote.
We weren’t picking location and yet FOOLS tried to, by saying No.
Hate gambling for society sake, but can’t you say it shouldn’t have been downtown.
It shouldn’t be in Sedgwick County, then you go to the Casino in Sumner County!
The vote would have allowed Casino developers to fully imagine a plan and where to place it here.
State chooses the site.
” I don’t trust politicians” yet it was you rejectors putting them in office.
Do you choose legislators? Did you vote for the Governor? Still don’t trust Topeka now. Never did?
Don’t trust the County becuase of the Arena. Don’t trust the City government at all.
That’s weak! That’s why Wichita can’t get projects rolling. That’s why civic progress is half attempted or not done at all.
Rejectors who mistrust the government think their right.
Their right, over reasonable people who consider, its possible to work the government. Public opinion can be used to guide some projects.
Want some cheese with that Mrage?
Tell us again why you voted NO on slots?
By the way - it is they’re (meaning they are); not their (possessive)
“Public opinion can be used to guide some projects.” OH? Well, public opinion has long since turned against your arena.
Ben,
Did you read that story about some residential property owners annexed by Park City want to secede!
Slots in Park City idea was terrible, because of location. The dog track was played out.
The Coliseum in that location didn’t serve us well after all those years.
That has been proved by voters rejecting both the Arena and slots in that location.
Add Wild West World and Wink Hartmans Arena dead to reasons why that’s a bad location for big development.
You rejectors on the Arena are wrong. We needed to replace the Coliseum. It’s in a better location downtown.
The real critism is wondering what events the Arena can attract.
It doesn’t have 18,000 floor seats, the ability to qualify for some events.
If KU occasionally, KSU and WSU basketball teams will play there for tournaments. If people knew future games were scheduled, they can plan to be there.
I don’t know why SMG has been silent giving citizens some future event ideas.
Their event scheduling would help prove the Arena to rejectors.
Parking downtown is a situation that can be handled. City wants to do it.
County needs them as partners making sure the Arena traffic flows well.
I “trust” the County and City working together.
You don’t!
Don’t take credit for negative Arena public opinion, its not serving this community well.
Other communities with Arenas and desiring them are proving you wrong.
There is obstruction here to development and its playing out in Kolb leaving.
People misuse prayers to reject developments here.
WAH!
“I “trust” the County and City working together.”
So, are they going to get that 18,000 seats you want for your Arena? HA!
“I don’t know why SMG has been silent giving citizens some future event ideas.”
Well, go ask them!
“If KU occasionally, KSU and WSU basketball teams will play there for tournaments. If people knew future games were scheduled, they can plan to be there.”
IF IF IF … and IF the moon were green cheese …
And as for your preferred downtown location for a casino:
“That has been proved FALSE by voters rejecting the casino in that location.”
Too bad Mrage - YOU LOST! BIG TIME! YOU WERE THOROUGHLY THRASHED!
Ben,
Admit you used a lie about Century II to vote No.
Century II was never for sale and it wasn’t going to be turned into a Casino.
NO. It WAS proposed and bandied about.
WAH!
And by the way; I did not campaign against the casino. I simply watched you blow it.
The cheese offer still stands.
Ben,
You campaigned here in those final days of the Casino vote. One or two No votes adds up. You participated in conversations finding others to agree with you voting No.
I watched you do that and now we’re suffering without development money being spent in this community.
You like Casino’s and talked about the Broadview Hotel area possibly for it.
Then suddenly downtown was the wrong place because some CEO’s threatened to relocate businesses.
You accept that kind of pressure placed on employees?
:)
WAH!
And I still think downtown would be the wrong place. I did speculate about a number of possible locations trying to figure out how they would fit. Downtown. Out west. I-135. Park City. Sumner. And my conclusion when it finally settled out was ‘not downtown’
As for “You like Casino’s” where did you get that idea? I just think they should be an option for people but also need to be done right.
Face it Mrage - YOU LOST - BIG TIME!
Ben
Your flawed conclusion leaves out, you voted NO , the Casino shouldn’t be in Sedgwick County.
That’s the vote we had. All your site decesions never mattered.
Your mistrust the government won out. That’s what it is. You mistrust the governments more than anything.
Communities that approved Casino’s wonder about you.
Sedgwick County and Wichita are chastised in Topeka, not offering projects for funding using Star Bonds.
Wyandotte County gets the gold stars. Politicians there offer civic improvement plans to Topeka and those citizens approve them.
But here, its rejectors who think their right. What gets built here, very little!
Celebrate your wrong views being a positive for this community!
You help make doodah stay as it is. The Bowling Tournament won’t save you. We might be doomed by 2011.
You’ll laugh at our community predicament and still live here.
You are correct, I voted NO. As did a LARGE majority of voters who rejected you.
And I do celebrate my RIGHT views being a positive for this community.
Keep on whining Mrage. And tomorrow you can complain because your over-priced arena is only 15,000 seats.
Did Wyandotte County approve a casino?
WAH!
:)
Well,
I voted no on a casino but yes for slots at the track.
Ya wanna blame somebody Mrage blame the people selling the casino.
I didn’t trust them.
The talk about taking the central library and then building a new central library later? I didn’t like that. What we likely would have got is a casino and NO new library.
The deal with the arena and how it was SO dishonestly sold. THAT will color a lot of folks’s opinions around here for a LONG time.
Throw in the water walk and Gander mountain. Wichita folk may never trust a major project again.
I don’t know how the community ever survived without a casino.
*Eye Roll*
J R - you just hit the main reasons the casino flopped and why I state that it was the Mrage crowd who defeated it.
I do wish my little hometown had bigger dreams and goals Mrage. Truly I do. I have dealt with local provincialism my whole life.
But I give Wichita people this: They will NOT easily forgive. This is especially true in matters of honesty.
Politicans can throw in a new library, an economic development area into a Star Bond package.
The Arena didn’t cost enough to be part of a Star Bond consideration.
Taxes alone shouldn’t build an Arena.
I scratch my head why corps aren’t part of Arena so far.
This is why Topeka looks at Sedgwick County and Wichita funny.
You people celebrate the nothing being accomplished by politicians.
When politicians ask you uncertainly to choose on a project, County created confusing vote questions for the Arena and Casino!
It’s bad to confuse this population because people get the different projects all mixed up.
We have a two governments, their both capable to creating projects at the same time.
Topeka wants them to merge projects into a big economic development Star Bond package.
“Taxes alone shouldn’t build an Arena.”
Earth to Mrage - that is what they are doing and what you have supported.
“The Arena didn’t cost enough to be part of a Star Bond consideration.”
BS. $200 million would be plenty big enough!
” It’s bad to confuse this population because people get the different projects all mixed up.”
Yep - that’s what it took to get your $184.5 million arena narrowly passed.
Ben,
Explain why corps aren’t involved in the Arena. In other places they are.
They don’t like its too small in seats?
Forget about narrowly approved, it was approved! People changing their mind doesn’t alter their past vote.
I supported the County starting a new Arena process. I expected corps to be happy seeing marketing potential.
Wichita has corporations with headquarters elsewhere is part of it. Ruffin is pissed off, he won’t invest in it.
Wynadotte County is considering how to Star Bond finance a new Arena and Stadium. Topeka is uncertain on that.
The one entity, not a development area, Star Bonds are supposed to help.
Your holding the County to that confusing Arena vote. We’ve moved from it, thankfully. $184 Million couldn’t do what needs to be done!
The project had to change because of construction cost increases. City wants to play their part controlling the parking.
More tax money is being raised during the time period.
“Explain why corps aren’t involved in the Arena. In other places they are.”
Earth to Mrage - that is YOUR department. My answer: they don’t believe in you any more than I do.
“I expected corps to be happy seeing marketing potential.”
Then YOU get the corps behind your arena!
“Your holding the County to that confusing Arena vote.”
And you wonder why we don’t trust you!
“Forget about narrowly approved, it was approved! People changing their mind doesn’t alter their past vote.”
Yea - just like your casino got thrashed. And you say the voters are “civic stupid “!
“Ruffin is pissed off, he won’t invest in it.”
YOU shouldn’t have voted against slots! YOUR FAULT!
Keep trying Mrage! Get your 18,000 seats! HA!
You caught my attention when you mentioned KU. As a Jawhawker, no one has ever mentioned a game in Wichita. Why on earth would we leave the great Allen Fieldhouse, jamed full of 16,300 shouting KU fans - and drive 160 miles, and 2 and a half hours to downtown Wichita to watch a game? Not for me, nor my children the next generation of students. Not unless they want me to stop my support of the alumni. Nothing personal, but I will be telling the Alumni association my feelings on this. In this day of increasing fuel prices, concerns with the added fuel useage, and drunk driving - this makes no sense to me. Again, nothing personal.
Jayhawker,
KU has never had a facility in Wichita to play, outside of going to WSU.
They can come to Wichita one game a year and play anyone, it doesn’t have to be WSU.
It’s not a home game taken away either.
Don’t you imagine many graduates of KU live here and the game would sell out? Rapid fans of KU exist here.
Many from Sedgwick County have attended KU football and basketball games for years. I went to 3 football games KU vs KSU in Lawrence. Two were before I was enrolled at KSU.
Coming down here occasionally won’t bankrupt anybody. In college I loved the road trips, its only for a day. Really no need to get a motel room.
Your talking about schedules in 2010 and beyond.
KU can accept an offer to play in Wichita if the package deal is right. I hope the KU game is on cable or broadcast TV.
SMG is qualified to put a marketing package together.
Hopefully we will create an 18,000 floor seats Arena.
road trips, its only for a day. Really no need to get a motel room.
The kids can drink both ways on the same day. Oh goody!
[not]
360 miles is what at least two tanks of gas. The toll is ten bucks from one end to the other.Meals & lodging so they do NOT drink and drive. $$$$$ [no]
Let’s see, what time of year is basketball - ah yes WINTER time. Kansas weather? [nope]
And you say you hope the broadcast the game. That’s swell of you!!!
But again, no offense [no sale] I enjoy Allen Fieldhouse, as do the thousands who travel from all over to come to Lawrence to relive the memories and watch the team.
And the kids driving REALLY is a big concern (and expense).
You want us to give our home field and all this up - to support your cities failing unbuilt dome?
You must NOT be a graduate.
Jayhawker,
There you go..everyone drinks and drives in college. So all were drunk driving to KC. They are drunk driving to Manhattan. Wasted going to Lincoln. To Colorado, Oklahoma, in Texas.
Have you lived in Kansas during the winter? Roads are passable and everyday it doesn’t snow or ice on the road.
Imagine, you don’t have to drive! If your afraid of the weather and winter time roads, stay the hell home.
If Wichita isn’t desired by KU, then why have Wichita kids played for KU.
Let KU Athletic Department findmarketing reasons to play in Wichita.
Your home games don’t decrease. KU adds a game in their season and they can do that.
We’ll do more saving our failing city and Arena, with other events, its just a place for KU to play in State of Kansas, outside of Lawrence.
KU will continue to recruit from here and local fans will appreciate their yearly appearance.
Citizens from all over go to Lawrence. Why can’t SOME in Lawrence come here.
Do you folke REALLY believe that nobody in Kansas gambled befoe the lottery? I got news for you- my dad would play any of you under the table in a card game. And when I was a little kid I was with him many a time when him and other men sat in the smoke filled rooms of places all over Wichita and played poker. I could name you many of them but I won’t because some of the other men that sat in those games are still living including- hint- the “Wichita Wiseguy”. So if you are really of the belief that the fact that gambling was illegal in Kansas kept anybody from gambling you need to open your eyes. It has been going on a very long time there.
“”"There you go..everyone drinks and drives in college. So all were drunk driving to KC. They are drunk driving to Manhattan. Wasted going to Lincoln. To Colorado, “”"”
That sounds like one hell of a road trip! I was once drunk in Manhattan but I was not driving. With all the cabs and subways there, I didn’t need too. I was once wasted driving a Lincoln but not to KC or Colorado!
I was once drunk in Manhattan but I was not driving. With all the cabs and subways there, I didn’t need too.
Manhattan, NY, or Kanas. I think there is one subway at the Kansas location. You can order a six or 12 inch sub - but you cannot ride it.
Do you folke REALLY believe that nobody in Kansas gambled befoe the lottery? Kev
Uhm. Kev? Did someone post that? I been following this thread most of the day, but don’t recall any question/discussion on that.
Beer. It’s whats for dinner!
I attended college in the 80’s with rear wheel drive and a carberator car.
Snow, ice, rain, whatever, I was in a heavy vehicle. I went to Winter Park Colorado, up a mountainside in the winter time. Snow fell heavily in Colorado during that trip.
Today’s cars are front wheel drive and fuel injection. It’s fine for most people to drive on ice and snow or through rain storms.
To see a college sports event or gamble in a casino.
People afraid to travel within the State of Kansas, c’mon. The intersates are usually passable.
Accidents happen and its careless driving, not so much the weather. Fog is the worst experience out of them all.
I didn’t drink and drive in college, but there was plenty of beer consumed.
Mrage meet Kev,Kev, I would like to introduce you to Mrage.
They two of you may want to buddy up on the field trip. We will be going to the zoo today. And then we are going to the baseball game.
And after that, if you are weally weally good, we’re going to see the Harlem Globetrotters play ping-pong on Mars!
Hey Introductions what’s up with that? What does that have to do with the thread lead or any of the comments?
Jayhawker - I think I could add that a college graduate (which Mrage is NOT) might enjoy re-visiting his campus when he goes to the games. Touch base with faculty, perhaps, check out the old hang-outs.
I know that if I had the choice of watching UCLA play in Pauley Pavilion or some nameless warehouse I definitely would choose Pauley. I’m sure you have that same attachment to Allen.
Add to that the possibility of Dad visiting his kids on campus and catching the game and there ain’t know way you would want it elsewhere.
Mrage is delusional if he thinks KU will come running to his nameless warehouse instead of Allen.
Wow, no wonder it got voted down in Sedgwick. Listen to you guys. The Casino developers are offering to pay for a turnpike exit. They are offering to build and let the communities use new fire /police/emergency stations, and they are footing the bill for getting water and sewer. The people of Sumner don’t have to pay for all of that. I went to the meetings and listened to what they had to say. And where do these nut jobs come from spouting that in 5 years there will thousands of pathological gamblers? Do you really think that on Friday, June 14th, 2012 there will be an outbreak of people who wake up in the morning and decide that they suddenly have to go gamble or go crazy? If there are any pathological gamblers, they are already here! They are driving to Topeka, or Oklahoma and gambling already. They are already in the Wichita/Mulvane/Wellington areas. Let Sumner County people worry about the Casino. You folks in Sedgwick have enough problems of your own. Like finding a city manager after “Kolb the Arena Man” finished ramming that mostrosity down your throats. I think there is a good chance it could bankrupt Wichita. Only time will tell. Good luck to Sedgwick residents on that one!
Please explain why colleges would give up a home game to play at non school affiliated arena. When they invest a lot in their own facilities, and would lose gate receipts and concession sales, not to mention angering their fans.
Tom - agreed. I’ve been saying this for over a year but Mrage keeps telling us that KU, KSU, and WSU ‘might’ decide to play these games here in his nameless facility.
Look at the uproar over the KU-MU game going to Kansas City; and in that case they got a much larger stadium. What benefit would the Albino Pachyderm give them?
What the hell was Kemper Arena and the Sprint Center but a off site for KU to play in. Which they did with regularity and profits.
Still had a full home schedule!
Football with limited games isn’t basketball that can increase games in a season as many a coach wants.
Where to play a basketball game off campus. Away at their gym. In an Arena like Sprint Center or occasionally in Wichita.
An off campus game can still be a Home Game. Its one more home game added to their schedule in off campus location.
Because it doesn’t have a name the arena is dump Ben? Way to promote your community.
You should want to see WSU,KSU hosting small tournaments in the Arena and KU occasionally. Wichita kids want to see KU locally to maybe play for them someday. KU recruits here.
Wichita kids should always be dragged to Lawrence? To Manhattan seeing those teams? We’re constructing a modern Arena to have those kind of events here.
County hired SMG to make those marketing events occur.
But you don’t see it, hating the Arena, distrusting the governments it’s like your mind and brain have a filter blinding you to reality.
That Jayhawker from KU is nuts, college kids drink and drive and ITS TOO FAR for because gas is costly. That dude is insane.
College kids drive responsibily and they can budget long distances traveling by car. Or they can get on a charter bus as a group to see away games.
Get with it Ben, please. You can’t prove WSU and KSU won’t play in the Arena. They will!
I wonder about KU because the Arena idea only has 15,000 seats for basketball.
KU won’t play in a smaller off campus facility. The goal for off campus, more money for games.
Arena’s pay for events to be played there. That’s why KU played in Kemper so often. Why they will play in the Sprint Center.
KSU is going to play in the Sprint Center, one game.
WSU will try increasing a home game in the off campus downtown Arena. They will make more money doing it.
KSU, WSU small tournaments marketing possibilities.
Keep telling yourself that Mrage. Keep deluding yourself.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
And how would WSU make more money playing in the Albino Pachyderm? Are you planning to subsidize it with my money?
And you call Jayhawker insane?
HA!
Well, with my experience limited to KU, I am aware that one game a year traditionally played in Kemper, and now to be played in the Sprint Arena, had two purposes: one, a larger arena, thus more money; two, an opportunity for those KU fans who are either still on the waiting list for season tickets at AFH, who cannot afford the required large contributions to the Williams Fund to get off the list (heck, to even be on the list, one must give some $$), or who cannot afford the $$ to get on the list and, due to its (AFH) sold out nature for every game, to personally see a KU men’s basketball game “live and in person”. Yes, one may take a chance and go to Lawrence to see if there will be any GA tickets available at AFH (usually those are available in the student sections over semester break) or if there is someone trying to market tickets in the parking lot. With the “swipe” ticketing system being implemented (students totally, being introduced to faculty, and I believe to season ticket holders as well), there aren’t the paper tickets available for easy transfer. I’m not totally up on how the swipe tickets work, other than by reading how students not being able to attend a game and who want to give the ticket therefor to a friend must notify the athletic department in advance, obtain approval, etc.
For Mrage’s benefit; the only two ways I see KU ever playing a regular season game at the anonymous Arena is 1) the program has fallen on hard times, and AFH isn’t selling out, so the novelty of a game in Wichita might attract enough folks to make it financially worthwhile, or 2) as a recruiting tool for a Freshman or Sophomore who might, when a Senior, be interested in attending KU and playing basketball there. Otherwise, why should there be the additional travel expenses to come to ICT incurred by KU before a smaller crowd?
Ben,
I’ll let WSU tell me, left a call to the assistant AD, what’s their possible use of the downtown Arena, from their own mouth.
Prepare to eat crow!
VT - you must be insane too!
;^)
Yea, Mrage, let WSU tell you how KU will play in your arena!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Ok
This is coming from someone (me) who will admit up front that I despise college basketball.
I despise basketball period.
But even I know KU would NEVER play a game in Wichita.
Geez dream big Mrage but try to live visit the real world from time to time.
Ben,
KU is different. The one game a year in Wichita will have to be marketed to them. That’s why SMG is hired.
We need a 18,000 seat Arena to attract them and its likely to sell out!
So that blast, why would KU play to a smaller crowd, they won’t if we get a larger Arena.
They could schedule a game in Wichita prior going to Oklahoma. It’s on the way!
Why would I ask WSU about KU? Only our mind laughs I would do that.
So what are you going to ask WSU? About how much of my tax dollars you will have to spend to subsidize them to get them into the Albino Pachyderm? I ask again: How do they make more money in a higher overhead facility?
“We need a 18,000 seat Arena to attract them and its likely to sell out!”
EARTH TO MRAGE: IT IS 15,000 SEATS; NOT 18,000!
Ben,
You don’t have a 15,000 seats Arena yet. I don’t imagine we will.
Keep deluding yourself.
Keep swallowing your negativism for now and believing it with your soul.
WSU can blow your arguments away how they will use the Arena. SMG can market game together and your assertions they won’t happen will be meaningless words.
Your hate for the governments is over reaching, the Arena is a failure before its built.
The Arena and Wichita can’t imagine events coming here.
Tell me Mrage - how would playing a game in a facility with HIGHER costs make WSU money?
Have you heard back from the assistant AD?
How is your campaign going to get all thsoe corps on board?
And no, Mrage, I don’t ahte governments like you FALSELY claim!
Keep on deluding yourself; just as you were doing when you called me a liar for saying it was 15,000 seats before. Remember that?
Ben,
The guy was on another phone, I left a voice message about the Arena, how WSU planned to use the facility. Call me back.
WSU doesn’t have higher costs playing in the Arena! Why do you think that? I’m not going to assume. If WSU has plans to use the downtown Arena, they can share those ideas.
Who knows if they are talking to SMG right now about future schedules. I’ll ask.
My getting corps on board is every week day until the tax is finished.
It was you who woke me up to the smaller seats in the Arena. Back then I thought it was 17,000 for basketball.
We can’t go forward with a 15,000 seat Arena, it won’t qualify for post season college basketball tournaments having too few seats.
“WSU doesn’t have higher costs playing in the Arena! Why do you think that?” Staffing. Utilities. Security. Ask your accountant; he can explain it to you. That is what I did.
“We can’t go forward with a 15,000 seat Arena, it won’t qualify for post season college basketball tournaments having too few seats.” HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
YOU BETTER GET BUSY!
“It was you who woke me up to the smaller seats in the Arena. Back then I thought it was 17,000 for basketball.” BUT I KNEW BETTER - AND YOU CALLED ME A LIAR FOR IT!
“My getting corps on board is every week day until the tax is finished.” WHAT A JOKE!
Ben,
Whatever. Remember that advice, if you got nothing good to say…
Why keep hammering the Arena with negative opinions, its an embarrassment we’re about to build. You doing a disservice promoting image of this community.
The pachyderm is you NO Casino voters. Turning down development money in a community about raise taxes for schools, or to fix Century II and build a new library.
With 18,000 floor seats I wouldn’t care if the Arena didn’t have a corp name.
Corps have to pay increasing capacity and seats. County can’t do it.
I want the new Arena, a place to see events is this civic starved city. We always had to travel going to Kemper. To see College football games.
For whatever reason you were fine with the too small for our future Coliseum in a bad location.
Who ever is responsible I’m not only one wanting more seats in the Arena.
I’m not only person to make it happen. I’m just increasing conversation, need create the Arena properly.
It needs 18,000 floor seats more than a corporate name.
“Remember that advice, if you got nothing good to say…”
NO. I SAY THE TRUTH!
“its an embarrassment we’re about to build.”
ON THAT WE AGREE!
“We always had to travel going to Kemper. To see College football games.”
COLLEGE FOOTBALL IN THE ARENA???
Ben,
That’s a typo…I meant to say we always go away to see College Football games.
Just like we had going to Kemper seeing higher lever college basketball games. Remember when WSU was bad.
When people describe what’s not in Wichita..an Arena like other communities and lack of college football.
WSU is not big enough having that commuter school label. George Mason has 30,000 students.
WSU needs better branding in this community so people feel the University.
A modern stadium for college football and other events has to be constructed some day.
Investors have to pay for more of that. Goal is increasing more students going to WSU. Place for more fans to gather.
Events should happen here if we build the facilities. Some taxes, corps partnering, SMG marketing and advertising. Fans excitedly going to events here. More to do in doodah.
We have to do it, instead of going out to Sumner County Casino.
That assistant WSU AD likely went home, may not get a call back until Monday.
“When people describe what’s not in Wichita..an Arena like other communities and lack of college football.”
Not the many people I talk to every day - people both from here and transplants from all across the country.
“We have to do it,”
No, YOU have to do it. GET BUSY!
:)
“That assistant WSU AD likely went home, may not get a call back until Monday.”
YEAH. SURE!
I don’t know if I should call Mrage and crew IDIOTS or DREAMERS OF FAIR TALES!
Because there is no snowballs chance in HELL that the alumni from KU is going to prescribe a REGULAR annual event in Wichita.
Dream on, but better yet - face reality and stop lying or trying to fool the citizens in supporting your pie in the sky arena - by throwing “KU” around in the sales pitch.
Stop that crap. It ain’t going to happen. We like our games at HOME, at HOME. Period.
But … but … Lawrence … aren’t you just chomping at the bit to come play in the Albino Pachyderm just so you can bail out Mrage et.al.?
Lawrence,
Shove your attitude.
Who are these alumni, where coaches come and talk to them.
http://www.kualumni.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/kualumni/kuaa_chapters.cgi?action=displaychapter&intent=home&itemid=118
They would be overjoyed if an 18,000 floor seats Arena is created and KU plays a game in Wichita.
I careless if people in Lawrence are put off. Don’t bother coming here please!
KU in Wichita will sell out.
KU won’t lose any home games in Allen Field House.
KU’s one game isn’t going to save our Arena either.
Inviting KU is partly why we need 18,000 floor seats. We need the increased seats from 15,000 to better qualify for post season college basketball tournaments.
People here don’t think taxes are pie in the sky.
Who knows if we ever will win it, our Arena has to bid for the Mens and Womens Big 12 basketball tournament.
In 2011, maybe the men’s MVC tournament tries to move around like the Big 12.
WSU, KSU and KU each University should accept to play one game a year in the Arena. WSU and KSU could host small tournaments.
Added games, no home games taken from the campus Arena’s.
SMG should be able to put marketing deals together.
Hopefully, on TV. We want an Arena that’s on TV.
This is free standing Arena for the State of Kansas, its in Wichita.
We’ve never had it, some can’t imagine how the Arena will attract events.
There is nothing wrong with KU playing in Wichita. Nor KSU or WSU playing in the Arena.
It has to be a marketing package the Universities accept and somewhere on future schedules against non conference teams.
KU could stop in Wichita for a game then head to Oklahoma for conference games. On the way back!
It’s an on-the-way Arena, not an out of the way place for KU and KSU.
Those teams travel in this direction every season!
They can stop, enjoy our Wichita hospitality, then be on their way.
The airport plays a role. Teams playing KU would fly here. I hope its not exhibition games.
SMG has to market to the teams KU would play here.
KU vs a mid major from the MVC. Its not WSU. Any non conference team could request to play KU in Wichita.
KU would host on a neutral court and the fans overwhelming pulling for KU. It’s home game away from home.
This is how Sprint Center acts, its the same as our Arena is supposed to.
Mrage - did you ever hear from that assistant AD at WSU?
Ben,
Not yet, don’t expect his call until Monday.
I have no doubts if the Arena is 18,000 floor seats we can imagine a variety of events there.
Limited seats at 15,000 hinders those thoughts, especially for college basketball.
I’ve sent SMG two faxes complaining they aren’t talking publicly and hoping they can influence the County, need for more seats.
15,00015,00015,00015,00015,000
FIGURE IT OUT MRAGE!
KU could stop in Wichita for a game then head to Oklahoma for conference games. On the way back!
Ok.
I admit some LIMITED personal exposure to competetive team sports.
“Stopping off” to play a game just is not how things are done.
It’s not like you are running to Wal mart and ya decide to stop off at quick trip for pete’s sake.
Athletes at this level and beyond require proper rest and warm up time. They don’t just play a game as an afterthought!
Ben,
If you can’t see the 15,000 seat Arena standing, it doesn’t exist!
JR,
Of course, teams need rest between games. KU and KSU would stay a couple of days here.
Its not unreasonable and their scheduling can be worked out.
But why would they?
They are a sports collective not a charity.
I got a better and more practical idea for your arena.
Maybe a walk on American idol type bball thing. Scouts could come and watch trying to find a diamond in the rough.
JR
University games will be the best experience in Wichita. At WSU baseball, better than watching Wingnuts. I do like L-D when the sun is going down, looking at reflection from The Hyatt and seeing the river.
The view downtown is better than at WSU.
College basketball than any semi pro kind of team is a better experience in Arena’s
You have understand what SMG WORLD marketing group does getting events to their Arenas.
They take care of sports teams and bands. They make a schedule agreeable.
They provide financial incentive to play in the SMG Arena’s.
KSU and KU should play one game a year in our downtown Arena. They have recruited players from Wichita in past years.
They will continue recruiting and marketing their Universities in Wichita.
Somehow I suspect the Athletic Department at Wichita State won’t be all that eager to invite one of the elite college basketball programs into town to out-draw the Shox by 50% (even assuming that the Jayhawks would sell out the place… possible but not a slam-dunk).
WSU is a mid-major basketball program. Mid-majors have experience a certain amount of success in recent NCAA tournaments largely because, although they tend to play second-tier talent the kids stay and play for four years and have experience and teamwork to counter the elite athletes that treat two or three years at a KU or Carolina as a warm-up for NBA careers.
As much as my native Kansas-ness would appreciate regular games between WSU, K-State, and KU, it’s not gonna happen until Wichita State becomes an elite program.
Having the Jayhawks schedule a non-conference game with Hogbluff State or the Illinois School for the Blind isn’t likely to pull 18,000 (or even 15,000) butts into Wichita’s arena.
Another five- or eight-thousand tickets sold for a Shox v. Hawks match-up in Wichita may or may not work out to WSU’s financial advantage… once a year. But a home-and-home arrangement isn’t gonna be a stellar match-up at Allen Field House until WSU steps up its program.
Forget your impractical idea Mrage.
I got the beginnings of another for you.
Imagine a reality TV series based out of the arena.
You could do basketball like I suggested.
You could do other things.
A reliable full audience would come for cheap seats and to be on TV. These things are cash cows for the networks.
Take that idea and run with it.
“They provide financial incentive to play in the SMG Arena’s.”
So, Mrage, how much more of MY money do you want to provide that bribe?
One idea…
Those reenactor folk. Any of them.
Imagine a TV show with like a knights tournament.
You won’t remember it maybe. But there was once a show called “Almost Anything Goes” That might be another idea.
“I do like L-D when the sun is going down, looking at reflection from The Hyatt and seeing the river.
The view downtown is better than at WSU.”
AND HOW MANY GAMES DOES WSU BASEBALL PLAY AT L-D?
MonkeyHawk,
WSU should play KU at Koch whenever that happens. Why it doesn’t, who knows.
WSU at KU, maybe the right coach unafraid to do that was hired. Gregg Marshall, he took Winthrop to any gym in the nation.
Recruited at Winthrop for that purpose. It could happen at WSU, go play anybody, anywhere eventually. Marshall at Winthrop rarely had home and home out of conference games. He went to top level Division 1 campus, tried to compete.
They have to play for something. KU keeps saying there isn’t any reason to do it.
WSU should play both KU and KSU on occasion. Not every year.
Winner gets money to scholarship programs, something can be marketed that matters when those team play each other.
Why would WSU care if KU played in the Arena? It&#