Here’s something to talk about for those studying parking around Wichita’s downtown arena: During Garth Brooks’ nine-show run at the new 18,500-seat Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo., the 1,000-spot parking garage across the street averaged only 200 cars a performance. Rather than pay $10 to park in the arena’s garage, concertgoers opted to park in surface lots. “People are parking and they’re walking,†Bruce Campbell, Kansas City’s manager of parking services, told the Kansas City Star. “The whole thing about people up in arms about having to walk to the Sprint Center just has not happened.†You suppose Wichitans likewise would vote with their feet against convenient but pricy parking?
Posted by Rhonda Holman
-
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in. -
Contact us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- mrcontroversy on Clinton endorsement should end political soap opera
- SolDevVB on Open thread 8/28
- Objectivist on Obama’s mile-high expectations
- Objectivist on Obama’s mile-high expectations
- Boxlock on Clinton endorsement should end political soap opera
- Boxlock on Obama’s mile-high expectations
- beber on Clinton endorsement should end political soap opera
- biased1 on Obama’s mile-high expectations
- CapnAmerica on Obama’s mile-high expectations
- outlander on Open thread 8/28
35 Comments
That is an easy one! I will vote with my pocketbook. If parking is an additional $10.00 to overpriced tickets, I simply will not go!No way, no how! It isn’t that I can’t afford it, it is simply that I refuse to be held up by the performer and the city/county!
Garth’s concert was probably THE lowest priced concert of the same caliber. That $10 parking added to the $20-something ticket price still made it lower than others. Imagine how they’ll feel when paying $40 and more for just a ticket. Cold, nasty weather may make a difference in the future though. It might be worth watching what happens come January and February. Will more people opt to pay that extra then?
Fair is fair, the rest us can charge the county commissioners $10 per a loaf of bread.
FIRST OF ALL, THE PROPOSED DOWNTOWN WICHITA WHITE ELEPHANT ARENA IS NOT DESIGNED FOR CONCERTS. According to experts who have commented here in the past, the new downtown Wichita arena will not contain the acoustics, the unloading and loading facilities, parking spaces for loading and unloading equipment, parking for performers and stage hands and for less fortunate fans with physical impairments. Of course, it won’t help to have loud freight trains pounding by on the tracks behind the arena every few minutes.
The ugly glass and steel design, based on the rear end of a four door 1957 Studebaker, fails to provide even minimal protection for fans in event of terrible storms that arise with a fury here in Kansas. Fans might have to voluntarily hover over the performer to keep him/her safe.
THE BEST WAY IS TO CANCEL THIS $500,000,000.11 MONSTROSITY DESIGNED PRIMARILY FOR ICE HOCKEY. THEN USE THE SAVED MILLIONS TO SOLVE A LONG LAUNDRY LIST OF REAL NEEDS FOR WICHITA, A LIST I WON’T ATTEMPT TO REPEAT HERE.
On a napkin over coffee in a Wichita cafe, we listed the pro-arena people who have since fled Wichita now that their boisterous parties are over and now that the fun of spending the taxpayers hard-earned money is over. Why stick around?
Remember Shocker 06 and 07 who said they were moving to Topeka and Denver? Remember a variety of local TV talking heads and newspaper reporters who gleefully reported on arena progress … who are now gone. The head of Wichita Downtown Development Corporation, Ed something or other (how soon we forget), who managed to draw a tax district around downtown to produce millions of tax dollars to support his largely unproductive activities. And others whose names I can’t recall.
SO BUY SOME WALKING BOOTS IF YOU INTEND TO VISIT THE ARENA … ITS GOING TO BE A LONG COLD WALK THROUGH THE DARK ALLEYWAYS OF DOWNTOWN WICHITA.
If the Arena area were designed properly that could have followed Germany’s fusganger zones or foot way zones. Or perhaps the grand plazas in other parts of Europe.
That is, areas where no traffic is allowed, only pedestrian.
Avenues of pedestrian only well lighted pathways that lead to organized parking areas. These areas could be lined with shops, stores, business and restaurants. Even community police stations with a bicycle and walking beats.
The zones are also environmentally friendly as tasks such as sewage, garbage and other utilities can be systematically arranged and cause no encumbering view or impediment to walkers or businesses.
One can even go underground to provide and area for shopping and etc. Imagine weather free zones with protection from the wind, cold and heat while having attractive plazas of shops leading to their larger stores above.
If we want to get serious about utilizing energy in the most efficient manner, we in Wichita need to seriously consider mass transportation system that would work.
I would like the ability to park downtown, but I would rather see design, construction and the inclusion of efficient mass transportation be the long term goal of downtown Wichita.
Driving the old Buick downtown to shop or attend an event isn’t the only concept we need to wrap our heads around.
Let’s make downtown Wichita, the model of efficiency, comfort and attractive presentation.
Good points Kansas. I would add ‘daylighting’ storm drainage - that is developing vegetated stream beds in the center of the walkway. This has been done elsewhere with very pleasant results and was thoroughly discussd in the “Dream in Green” seminars.
Expanding on this; Backwoods is moving their corporate HQ to Austin. Their stated reason is that they cannot recruit executives to Wichita. The reason they gave for that is that the people they are seeking desire outdoor recreation which is lacking in Wichita.
Think about the impact of a network of open walking areas throughout downtown connecting the various areas. I would add to that removing vehicle traffic from the brick streets in Old Town to create a pleasant walking environment.
One of the attractions in San Antonio’s RiverWalk is that people can ’saunter about’ without ntercting with traffic.
Uh Yeah that is Kansas City people you are talking about there Rhonda.
You propose a double no go when you put Wichita people in this equation.
10 bucks to park or 10 blocks to walk, Wichita people will do number 3.
Stay home.
Who says all those people “walked”? I might point out that KC has a decent bus system that, unlike Wichita’s, actually runs after 6PM.
“”"Uh Yeah that is Kansas City people you are talking about there Rhonda.
You propose a double no go when you put Wichita people in this equation.
10 bucks to park or 10 blocks to walk, Wichita people will do number 3.
Stay home.”"”
No they won’t. Wichitans are like people everywhere. If there is a show they want to see, they are going to go and see it. While they might not walk 10 blocks, they will certainly do 4 or 5. I actually have witnessed Wichita people walking myself! I saw them walking to Riverfest and I have seen them walk for at least 3 blocks in Old Town when the parking is tight on the weekends. So the people in Wichita are able to walk and they will if they want to see a show.
Nobody seems to be thinking about geography and climate in any of this.
Start with Backwoods and compare Austin’s climate with Wichita’s. Move on to San Antonio and do a comparison. See any difference?
Riverfest is in MAY, Kev. How many of those people were walking those blocks in the rain that typically hits us during that 9 days? Would they do it in February with a couple of inches of snow?
We always do a lot of parking during Riverfest prior to actually arriving. Why? Because we always park several blocks away. There are two reasons for that. First, there’s very little downtown parking for the amount of people attending, and two, we like to be able to leave when the day/event is over, without having to wait for an hour for traffic to clear.
Kansas, Denver’s Mile Mall is absent vehicle traffic and allows only the buses that travel it for transportation. That incorporates both of your ideas. Makes me wonder why our leaders keep referring to more southern destinations, not those a little more like our own. Do they live in LaLa Land? Oh, wait, it IS DooDah Land.
Patrols writing more tickets in downtown lots
Just in time for ALL those extra people parking to attend ?(something)? in the new albatross. Guess it could have been all part of the plan to increase city revenues. If our city leaders seemed more capable of planning I might believe this was true.
http://kansas.com/news/story/231153.html
Rox - I see people enjoying the outdoors in CHICAGO! At Christmastime! Is it warm and balmy on the Chicago lakefront at that time of year? A big part of the equation, as kev noted, is TRANSIT. We would take the train downtown and either walk or take the bus to the event.
I also saw many people walking outside in BOSTON when I lived there. Again, the difference was a combination of culture and pleasant walking environment.
Plus the fact that fewer in Boston have a personal green space to enjoy and fewer have private autos. May be true in Chicago too; I’m familiar with Boston but not Chicago. Here most of us have yards and cars and our lifestyles depend on them (too much in my opinion!). Even those who live on the outskirts of Boston with private yards and private cars use the excellent mass trans systems since there are few places to park and those are very expensive.
My sister and her husband just paid $22 to park at Arrowhead, where they paid $70 apiece for sort of average tickets halfway up.
I think if the show/game/whatever is worth it, the price doesn’t really matter.
Then again, they live in Liberal and go to Arrowhead maybe once every 10 years or so.
“”"Rox - I see people enjoying the outdoors in CHICAGO! At Christmastime! Is it warm and balmy on the Chicago lakefront at that time of year? A big part of the equation, as kev noted, is TRANSIT. We would take the train downtown and either walk or take the bus to the event.”"”
Chicago is so beautiful at Christmas time. The walk from the Water Tower to the Wrigley Building is one of the best miles you can walk during the holidays- cold or not. Downtown Wichita used to look nice during the holidays when there were stores there like Henry’s, Macy’s and others. Wichita needs lots of work on the downtown. I am however impressed with what they have done. It is a far cry from the bad old days when Old Town was empty warehouses and the out of luck winos populated the area around Hotel Eaton. That and the drunks laying on the sidewalk outside of Okies Bar on Douglas. All that is gone now and the area looks alot better. Same with the Riverfront which is no longer occupied by the dirty factory warehouses of Southwest Grease and Oil. The arena is going to do even greater things and hopefully retail and residential will follow.
“”"Plus the fact that fewer in Boston have a personal green space to enjoy and fewer have private autos. May be true in Chicago too”"”
IS true in Chicago too. I lived in a highrise in Chicago for 12 years (Sheridan and Hollywood of you know the city) and rode the subway or express Lakeshore to work. I had a car but it only came out on the weekends. I could have lived without the car but when you are in your 20s and want a social life, dating on public transit just don’t cut it. Wichita will never be Chicago or Boston nor should it be. But it can be more like KC. People in KC have as much green space as Wichita does yet they have a better transit system and a better airport (before Airtran you had to drive to KCI to fly unless you wanted to pay $1000 each way). Wichita has always had an inferiority complex about it that is something like “we cannot possible compete so why bother”. And it still shows up. Frankly downtown Wichita should be getting the new casino and not Mulvane. There is no reason for Wichitans not to enjoy the same things other places have. KC has casinos all over the place and they have not “went to hell” because people can gamble there.
“”"Garth’s concert was probably THE lowest priced concert of the same caliber. That $10 parking added to the $20-something ticket price still made it lower than others. Imagine how they’ll feel when paying $40 and more for just a ticket. Cold, nasty weather may make a difference in the future though. It might be worth watching what happens come January and February. Will more people opt to pay that extra then?”"”
A very simple thing would be to contract with the Wichita bus system to run shuttle service to the place from remote parking lots in the winter. They could use Lawrence Stadium since it is not occupied in the winter. You park there, wait in your warm car and get on the shuttle to the arena and back after the show.
Cost might be one reason why reason people don’t park in a nearby ramp. Another is the headache and wait to get out of a full ramp when everyone is trying to get out at once.
Here in Des Moines a lot of people park on the street for free and walk a few blocks to the arena.
The arena is also connected to our skywalk system so a lot of people come in that way, which makes walking a distance more tolerable.
There is a surface lot that’s nearby (no ramp), but even though it’s only $6, the reason we don’t like parking there is that it takes forever to get out after an event.
Hey, Former,
Do you know Max?
Capn — doesn’t ring any bells — can you give me a hint?
Don’t mind the Capn Former. He’s our resident paranoid who thinks everyone that posts here he doesn’t know actually posts here as someone else.
You know, the troll thing…
Thx Kansas — I’m sure there’s a few sock puppets out there, but I’m legit, I lived there for 15 years before moving a few years ago.
While there I did see a few attempts at a getting a new arena go down in flames, so it’s interesting reading about it now. And I didn’t mean to promote any position on parking, I was just relating our experience here.
Picking up a bit from Kansas this morning (7:27). When I was at WSU I would walk the campus daily - cold, hot, even rain or snow. Although my usual walk from parking was not all that pleasant the walks through the campus were. Trees, grass, flowers, outdoor art, etc. I have commented that these walks were not only good for my physical health but mental as well - probably helped keep me from killing one of my students!
My point is that if people have a pleasant walking environment they WILL walk - both recreationally and to get places. Here in Wichita it is fairly infrequent that temperatures are sub-freezing during the day. At the other temperature extreme if we have shade the heat is not that bad. Also, trees actually can reduce local temperatures significantly.
So, IF the city/county provide decent walking environments downtown they can help improve access.
I will also ’second’ kansas in regards to transit etc. However I probably differ on the need for underground - while that makes sense in Montreal our weather is mild enough for outside as long as we have some wind-breaks and shelter from rain.
I actually bought something at Gander Mountain last week.Girlfriend works for the airlines, and she came into town on a pass.I took her to Gander because it is darn cold up next to Lake Erie, where she works, and she wanted some “hunding gloves” that would keep her warm when she had to go out on the tarmac.Anyway, I still think the store would do better if they put a dock out on the river and tied a few of their boats to it.Maybe gave a line casting or boating lesson a couple times a week.
hunting gloves, darn cant type
you people got effed in the a. congrats, LOL
No I would not pay money to park, that’s supposed to be figured into the price of everything. Parking is not an option, and especially for handicapped who have trouble walking, this is just more access for them denied.
I also think this…if you have a motorized wheelchair, the only thing you really need is two parking stalls….to get the lift down. Be nice and park in the back and leave the real handicapped spots for those who can’t walk so good and DON”T have a motor.
Parking is the experience for the driver alone. People can be dropped off nearer the Arena site. The driver has to make that decision where to park.
JWink, you hate the arena, so its not likely your walking along Maple heading east. You have to meander through WaterWalk, an area you hate.
It’s too dangerous walking downtown? I plan to park near Century II right now, for most Arena events days or nights.
Do you think that area from Century II to the Arena site will be dangerous in the future? Don’t imagine the area will change what the City wants to do?
It’s possible to walk but are people willing. I am.
People who ride with me could be dropped off on the Arena site.
I think Kansas, kev, and Ben all make good points here. One aspect for inmproving downtown is to greatly improve our public transportation, and to make it run later than it does. I also agree with making downtown more pedestrian friendly although I must say, a few years ago when my daughter went ice skating I used to walk from the ice rink through down town to Old Town and back, and they were actually very nice walks. The main issue as to whether the arena will “really” become a white elephant is if there are other things to do in downtown. If we have a downtown that attracts traffic, then the arena has a chance of being quite successful. If downtown continues to be the dead zone next to Old Town, then people are going to look at going to the arena as more trouble than it’s worth unless there is something people REALLY want to see.
Ben,
I enjoy a good walk, no matter what the weather. But not everyone does, and that’s all I was pointing out.
We need a much better transit system in Wichita, arena or no arena. We need to build up the downtown area between WaterWalk and Old Town. But we’ve been spoiled by malls.
BTW, when did they stop lighting the Christmas tree on the river in Riverside? It was a tradition to drive the 25 miles into Wichita to see it and enjoy hot cocoa and carols.
Rox - I think the tree is now next to Century II.
I know of a group of people that own a lot of land right across the street from the arena looking for investors on a parking garage. Their business plan calls for $10-$20 per night parking and also sell monthly passes for parking.
We shall see if it succeeds.
I still like the idea of creating a trolley loop can be dependable to run. Have it run from old town to arena to waterwalk to delano back to old town. That would help solve the “parking issue” along side with raising some money for the public transportation system. The Q lunch trolley for 25 cents is a good idea and could be replicated at night for events.
Tony - absolutely. And then build upon that for ‘real’ transit.
Bring in the quality shows, people will come.