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90 Comments
Hope eveyone and their families have a great Thanksgiving
Can somebody took a time off from the dinner table, or the telly, to enlighten me on this tiny issue?
Why does the President pardon a turkey? Has it committed any crime, some sort of original sin for being hatched a turkey? And doesn’t that run counter to America’s notion of “innocent till found otherwise”?
Well, back to eating my drumstick!
Happy Thanksgiving….
Roo-ster
If you type Thanksgiving turkey pardon into your search bar and then go to Snopes.com there is an article there about the pardon. Hope it helps
From everyone aboard the USS Enterprise, Happy Thanksgiving!
Jack,
I have an uncle who was on the Enterprise when it was commisioned. He was a corpman. Where are you now?
Sorry,Jhawk
Don’t they call the first crew on a ship “plank owners”?
Freebird- Plankowners are members of the crew that de-commision a vessel. I am not at liberty to discuss where I am. Other than to say that we’re somewhere in the North Arabian Sea.
I knew I had heard that term before but couldnt remeber what context it was used in. I understand not being able to divulge where you are. Happy Thanksgiving and thank you from the father of former Marine vet. come home soon and safe
Coal-plant pollution knows no boundaries
By Michael Casey – Associated Press WriterNovember 22, 2007
Children play near a power plant in Taiyuan, Shanxi Province, China. The coal-fired plants spew emissions that cause environmental damage as far away as the United States.
Taiyuan, China — Editor’s note: This is part of an occasional series on the growing use of coal and its effects worldwide.
It takes five to 10 days for the pollution from China’s coal-fired plants to make its way to the United States, like a slow-moving storm.
It shows up as mercury in the bass and trout caught in Oregon’s Willamette River. It increases cloud cover and raises ozone levels. And along the way, it contributes to acid rain in Japan and South Korea and health problems everywhere from Taiyuan to the United States.
This is the dark side of the world’s growing use of coal.
Cheap and abundant, coal has become the fuel of choice in much of the world, powering economic booms in China and India that have lifted millions of people out of poverty. Worldwide demand is projected to rise by about 60 percent through 2030 to 6.9 billion tons a year, most of it going to electrical power plants.
But the growth of coal-burning is also contributing to global warming and is linked to environmental and health issues ranging from acid rain to asthma. Air pollution kills more than 2 million people prematurely, according to the World Health Organization.
“Hands down, coal is by far the dirtiest pollutant,” said Dan Jaffe, an atmospheric scientist at the University of Washington who has detected pollutants from Asia at monitoring sites on Mount Bachelor in Oregon and Cheeka Peak in Washington state. “It is a pretty bad fuel on all scores.”
‘Can’t live’ without it
To understand the conflict over coal, look at Taiyuan and the surrounding Shanxi Province, the country’s top coal-producing region — and one of its most polluted.
Almost overnight, coal has turned poor farmers in this city of 3 million people into Mercedes-driving millionaires, known derisively as “baofahu” or the quick rich. Flashy hotels display chunks of coal in the lobby, and sprawling malls advertise designer goods from Versace and Karl Lagerfeld. Real estate prices have doubled, residents say, and construction cranes fill the skyline.
A museum in Taiyuan celebrates all things coal. Amid photos of smiling miners, coal is presented as the foundation of the country’s economic development, credited with making possible everything from the railroad to skin care products.
“Today, coal has penetrated into every aspect of people’s lives,” the museum says in one of many cheery pronouncements. “We can’t live comfortably without coal.”
Yet the cornstalks lining a highway outside the city 254 miles southwest of Beijing are covered in soot. The same soot settles on vegetables sold at the roadside, and the thick, acrid smoke blots out the morning sun. At its worst, the haze forces highway closures and flight delays.
With pressure to clean up major cities such as Shanghai and Beijing, particularly in the run-up to next year’s Beijing Olympics, the central government is turning increasingly to provinces such as Shanxi to meet the country’s power demands.
“They look at polluted places like Taiyuan and say it’s so polluted there so it doesn’t matter if they have another five power plants,” said Ramanan Laxminarayan, a senior fellow at Resources For the Future, an American think tank that found links between air pollution and rising hospital admissions in Taiyuan.
“I visited these power plants and there is no concept of pollution control,” he said. “They sort of had a laugh and asked, ‘Why would you expect us to install pollution-control equipment?’”
Paying heavy price
China is home to 20 of the world’s 30 most polluted cities, according to a World Bank report.
Health costs related to air pollution total $68 billion a year, nearly 4 percent of the country’s economic output, the report said. And acid rain has contaminated a third of the country, Sheng Huaren, a senior Chinese parliamentary official, said last year. It is said to destroy some $4 billion worth of crops every year.
“What we are facing in China is enormous economic growth, and … China is paying a price for it,” said Henk Bekedam, the country representative for the World Health Organization. “Their growth is not sustainable from an environmental perspective. The good news is that they realize it. The bad news is they’re dependent on coal as an energy source.”
But the costs go far beyond China. The soot from power plants boosts global warming because coal emits almost twice as much carbon dioxide as natural gas. And researchers from Texas A&M University found that air pollution from China and India has increased in cloud cover and major Pacific Ocean storms by 20 percent to 50 percent over the past 20 years.
“We know dust from factories in China, India, Mexico and Africa does not simply disappear; the wind brings it here,” said the U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s Bill Kovacs.
Kovacs said overseas dust is adding to the number of counties that do not qualify for federal transportation funds because they are out of compliance with ozone standards.
More than 100 counties do not meet the limit of 84 parts per billion. China alone contributes 3 to 5 parts per billion, estimates Daniel J. Jacob, professor of atmospheric chemistry and environmental engineering at Harvard University.
Mercury, a byproduct of some coal-mining, is another major concern. The potent toxin falls into waterways and shows up in fish. Asia’s contribution to U.S. mercury levels has shot up over the past 20 years. Jacob estimated half of the mercury in the United States comes from overseas, especially China.
“It’s a global problem and right now China is a source on the rise,” he said. “If we want to bring down mercury levels in fish, then we have to go after emissions in East Asia.”
There’s something in the Chinese mindset — so different from Americans’ — that sees history in terms of centuries instead of years.
We in America have gravitated toward the 24-hour news cycle, but the Chinese look at the 19th Century Industrial Revolution as yesterday. America became grate by polluting the air with steel mills, by genocide of Native Americans, by laizzes faire capitalism that relied on child labor, oppression of minorities, sexism, monopolism, militarism, …which led the world to global war in 1914.
To the Chinese, that was all yesterday and it’s their turn to pollute, oppress, and bully their way to prosperity… just as the United States did a century ago.
But we are no longer in an era such as Theodore Roosevelt’s Battleship Diplomacy. We’re in an era of Nuclear Brinksmanship. Solving the threats to the planet must take place at the negotiating table, not at the force of arms.
Thank you, JHawkSailor, for guarding the peace while all of us are taking a few days off from work, cooking a feast for family members fortunate to be at home, plunking on the keyboard, or attending church services. I hope that you and the rest of the crew are safe, and that you will come home soon to a country that is as respectful of other cultures and religions as we profess to the rest of the world to be. To our fellow citizens at home, we must do more than talk. We must walk the walk. We need daily to be examples to our children of the tolerance, compassion and kindness that we hear constantly about from the media and the propaganda misers is supposedly not typical of other cultures and religions. And we have to keep the powder dry too.
For Pat Herron, and other Bush Fans >>>>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/
The REAL story of the Turkey Pardon! Just so Pat H and others will see Chas. is not lying…
Do read this one??
For those of us old enough to remember, what were you doing on this day in 1963? I was in my 5th grade silence class when my teacher was called into the hall and she was crying when she came back in. She told us that the president had been shot and killed. That whole weekend my family and I barely strayed from the tv. Even at 10 yrs old I knew I was watching history. One can only wonder what might have been had JFK had not been killed
I remember this day in 1963 quite well. I was having my 4th birthday party when the news from Dallas came across the media. To this day, I remember the reactions of my mother anf the mothers of my guests.
Some videos for those who might be bored today. :)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1CndP1fYC0M
Some relaxing or entertaining vidoes to watch.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nUDIoN-_Hxs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Hm2BdCbZkKY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AcLokVVP4s
I was in 7th Grade Music Class at Marshal Jr. High… just after lunch break… teacher told us all to be quiet… they piped in the radio broadcast on the school Intercom system… Walter Cronkite… The President is Dead… Classes were released immediately after the radio announcement… It was quite a day…
I can still see little John John, proudly saluting the flag on his father’s coffin… Very eerie, touching site to see…
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Especially to the servicemen overseas.
In the Navy a ‘Plankowner’ is one that is on board when a ship is commissioned. In the old days when a ship was decommissioned a ‘plankowner’ would get a piece of the wooden deck.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plankowner
I am a plankowner of the USS L. Mendel Rivers, SSN686.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_L._Mendel_Rivers_(SSN-686)
In 1963 I was a senior in Winfield High School. I worked nights racking tables in the City Cigar Store, (local pool hall and beer joint). During the afternoons I worked for Ralph Wilson at the Winfield Body shop and on the weekends I ran the concessions at the drag strip at Strother Field.
I was also in the Navy Reserve.
I was really too busy to watch much TV and didn’t see much of the three day TV ‘bury Kennedy’ production. I was a conservative republican back then too. I wasn’t too enamored with Kennedy, mostly because of the ‘Bay of Pigs’ fiasco in ‘61.
silence=science
I agree Hank, the Bay of Pigs was a fiasco, but if I remember my history correctly didn’t JFK man up and say he was responsible?
Hey Freebird,
I’ve forgotten more than I currently know about the Bay of Pigs. He did take responsibility for it’s failure.
I’m not sure how much he really knew, or how much of the responsibility for the operation was his. Nixon and Eisenhower initially approved and planned the operation. The CIA was the agency that was in charge of the fiasco.
Real blame should go to the CIA. Kennedy came in at the last minute and made some decisions that pretty much made a bad plan impossible.
You’re from Winfield too Hank?
Hank,Wasn’t Kennedy the one who denied the air support which caused the invasion to tank?
The Bay of Pigs was the last gasp of the Eisenhower Adminstration and the Republic Party’s anti-Castro policies.
It was “planned” way before JFK took office on January 20, 1961 and didn’t occur until April that same year.
Yeah, he could have called it off. And that was his regret. Cuban expatriates such as Watergate-burglers-to-be E. Howard Hunt et al and terribly misguided CIA rennegades were convinced they could invade the Bay of Pigs and overthrow what is — and remains — a popular revolution centered around Castro.
You gotta get a bit of perspective when you realize that even Castro was a better choice than the mafia-laden pre-revolutionary Cuban government.
John Kennedy demonstrated his own profile in courage by taking the blame for the Bay of Pigs. He was new at the job and the machine of the invasion was already underway… and he went along with the leftover 1950s communist hysteria. And he accepted the consequences of the mission’s failure.
Ever since, America’s Cuban policy has been screwed up. With or without Russian nukes, with or without Soviet financial backing, with or without Castro’s dictatorial control, Cuba has experienced 48 years of being better off than it was during the previous 60 years of de facto colonization, mafia corruption, and right-wing dictatorship.
As we should have learned with Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union, and the People’s Republic of China, the single most effective weapon against communism is trade and capitalism. So what is the Republic Party line against Cuba? Isolate the island from trade and capitalism. Go figure.
After the weakness revealed by the Republic Party’s failed Bay of Pigs invasion in April, 1961, Kennedy skillfully leveraged America’s power during the Cuban Missile Crisis in October, 1962.
We’ll never really know what interests, powers, prejudices, and agendas may or may not have converged in Dallas on November 22, 1963. Most certainly, it changed the world.
Would JFK, secure in a second term, cut back the anti-communist hysteria in southeast Asia? Would there have been a reapproachment to Castro, who basically was willing to follow the money to sustain his revolution?
Who knows?
Today, Cuba’s peasants have universal health care and 100% literacy (or else they don’t, and they can’t count either).
Kennedy’s anti-communist agenda may have been political expediency. Anyone who ever studied communism knows that it is a system of government and economy doomed to collapse on itself… which it did.
Whether it was Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone, the Mafia, Kellogg-Root, Lyndon Johnson, J. Edgar Hoover, Richard Nixon, the CIA, Castro, or none of the above… things converged in Dallas on November 22, 1963 which changed the course of civilization.
JFK was a remarkable individual who understood and appreciated the irony of the ancient Chinese curse: “May you live in interesting times.”
I was in the Mrs. Boyd’s 4th grade class when JFK was assassinated. Our principal came in to tell us. I remember thinking ‘what’s going to happen now?’
We got a few days off from school. My parents wanted me to watch the coverage on television – telling me it was history and all that. I wanted to go outside and play. They finally relented and let me. My friends and I were climbing a tree, when a not so smart friend of ours came outside and said “Hey, someone shot Oswald!”
We said “No, you dumbass, Oswald was the one who shot Kennedy!” Needless to say, we didn’t know the whole story.
John F. Kennedy casually spared a turkey on Nov. 19, 1963, just days before his assassination. When given a bird wearing a sign reading, “Good Eatin’ Mr. President,” Kennedy said, “Let’s just keep him.”
http://waterandoil.blogspot.com/2006/11/thanksgiving-traditions.html
http://www.arkcity.net/stories/112207/com_0004.shtml
http://www.tommcmahon.net/2004/11/the_november_19.html
http://newsblaze.com/story/20071122072209tsop.nb/newsblaze/TOPSTORY/Top-Stories.html
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/454337/60_years_of_quotes_from_the_national.html?page=3
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/11/turkey.html
JFK was a remarkable individual who understood and appreciated the irony of the ancient Chinese curse: “May you live in interesting times.”Posted by: MonkeyHawk
Yeah he was remarkable alright. Had he lived, you would remember him for being remarkable is so many other ways:
Since his death, various reports have linked John F. Kennedy romantically with an untold number of women, including actress Marilyn Monroe and Mafia moll Judith Campbell Exner. JFK’s affairs were well-known by many reporters who covered the White House, but few hints of such behavior made it into print until well after his assassination.
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/jfk.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/junkie/archive/junkie082198.htm
http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20030514004/tscript.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/presidents/35_kennedy/tguide/index.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/15/national/main554101.shtml
I wonder why none of those women kept a stained dress in a box under their bed?? Like Monica??
Face it folks, Clinton was set up… some day, we might learn who set it up, and paid for it!! I have my guesses…
wonder why none of those women kept a stained dress in a box under their bed?? Like Monica??
Posted by: Chas.
Monica’s dress is at the Smithonian. Our children and grandchildren will behold it in living color!
(unless Hillary gets elected – they have a proven track record of stealing things from the national archives. Accidentally, dontcha know).
The dress will disappear!
And yet another false rumor about Hillary!! Geez, it just doesnt stop!! What was that ancient advice(command) about not bearing false witness against one’s neighbor?? I guess that doesnt apply to US politics…
Bush has took more vacation days than days Kennedy was President, and which one got more stuff done.
Happy Turkey Day everybody, or Thanksgiving for you politically correct sticklers. Remember, don’t talk politics during Thanksgiving dinner, unless you like long and akward silence.
Chas,
What about this command:
“You shall have no other gods before Me.”
Dear Freebird and the Big E. The pre-commissioning crew that is assigned to the ship at the exact time of commissioning are the plankowners, as well as the decommisioning crew. So even if you report abord 5 minutes after the official commissioning ceremony, you are not a plank owner, but if you report aboard 5 minutes before it is decommissioned you are. Make sense? I reitred after 25 years, and 9 deployments in the Navy. I was on the E for the Mudpac.
November 22, 1963 — Mrs. Slater’s 7th grade English class. The news was suddenly piped in over the intercom. 7th & 8th grades attended in the same building as 9-12 grades back then. I don’t believe I ever heard that school so quiet. “Stunned” would have been a good description for most of us. We weren’t allowed any “days off”, including the day of the funeral, when there was a TV in every classroom, even Home Ec.
In line for lunch we began hearing rumors and first hour after lunch for me was Mr. Reed’s Government class. He was head of Heights political science department and had a small office at the front of the classroom. When we filed in we found him there with the radio turned up and we all listened, everyone eerily quiet listening to that horrible news. In not too long the announcement came over the intercom that school was dismissed. All those high school students out in the hallway, being dismissed early for a loooong Thanksgiving holiday and again eerily quiet. Everyone got into their lockers without the usual slamming of doors, talked in whispers, all in shock and sorrow.
We were glued to the television the next several days. It was the first time I remember following a days-long event live on television.
Bush has took more vacation days than days Kennedy was President, and which one got more stuff done.
Posted by: Tom Paine
Shall we start with Kennedy? OK, I’ll go first:
1960 JFK stole the election which he had officially won by a mere 119,450 votes. Illinois State’s Attorney Benjamin S. Adamowski charged on December 1 that the Chicago Democratic machine had stolen at least 100,000 votes. More than 10 percent of Chicagoans were left off polling lists, absentee ballots were not counted and there were many apparent erasures on the paper ballots. In Texas tens of thousands of ballots disappeared and The New York Herald Tribune reported that 100,000 votes tallied for Kennedy-Johnson never existed in the first place. They won Texas by 46,000 votes.
One of the reasons the mafia was so upset with Kennedy is that they had spent a lot of money and influence, especially in Chicago, to get him elected and then he and Bobby Kennedy turned on them. Particularly Jimmy Hoffa and the Chicago and Louisiana families were upset. Giancana told Judith Campbell Exner, “Listen, honey, if it wasn’t for me, your boyfriend wouldn’t even be in the White House.” JFK had sent 250,000 dollars with Exner to Giancana for the mob to get out the union vote and make corrupt unions contribute to JFK’s campaign.
It is likely that General Dynamics blackmailed JFK to give them the TFX fighter contract (Boeing had the better plane), 6.5 billion dollars, the largest in history to that point, after bugging Exner’s apartment.
JFK’s first priority as President was the assassination of Prime Minister Lumumba of the Congo and Trujillo of the Dominican Republic.
JFK was reluctant on Civil Rights, the major issue of the day. (Reeves p 416) JFK made campaign promises to blacks that he did not keep which led to riots. Akhil Reed Amar of Yale Law School faults JFK for appeasing Southern Democrats by stocking the lower federal bench with “notorious segregationists.” RFK ordered extensive electronic surveillance of Martin Luther King admittedly “investigating the love life of a group leader for dissemination in the press.”
In the 1960 election, JFK concealed his Addison’s disease and even stated flatly to the press I have never had Addison’s disease. That was a lie, of course. LBJ said Kennedy looked like a spavined hunchback. The records show that Kennedy took codeine, Demerol and methadone for pain; Ritalin, a stimulant; meprobamate and librium for anxiety; barbiturates for sleep; thyroid hormone; and injections of a blood derivative, gamma globulin, to combat infections. During the missile crisis, Kennedy was taking antispasmodics to control colitis; antibiotics for a urinary tract infection; and increased amounts of hydrocortisone and testosterone to control his adrenal insufficiency. For much of his life, Kennedy also suffered from severe and potentially dangerous bouts of diarrhea. Kennedy took anti-diarrheal drugs like Lomotil for relief. He also had high blood cholesterol, often in the range of 300, once at 410, which is twice the level now considered desirable. He had a tremendous proclivity for infections. Kennedy received seven to eight injections of procaine in his back in the same sitting before news conferences and other events, according to Dr. Kelman. Kennedy had developed osteoporosis by the 1930s and probably in his childhood. X-rays show spinal fractures and metal screws in the vertebrae unrelated to PT-109 injuries.
Kennedy was President, and which one got more stuff done.Posted by: Tom Paine
More on Kennedy’s contribution to his country:
Berlin Wall – JFK pursued a risky confrontation (Reeves P 417). Later Kennedy at Berlin said Ich bin ein Berliner. That literally means: I am a jelly roll. If he meant to say he was a resident of Berlin (a lie), he should have left off the word ‘ein’. (cf. a hamburger or a frankfurter refer also to food)
1961, May 25th, JFK, without consulting anyone, announced a race to the moon. Later he suggested to the UN not a race but a co-operative effort with the Soviets. His cost estimates were way off and critics pointed out that this was a misallocation of resources – that the government could not continue to spend huge sums on projects of marginal or doubtful value. The New York Times editorialized in March 1967 We fail to see that it makes any great difference who reaches the moon first or whether the landing takes place in the 1960’s or mid-1970’s…The moon is not going away.
JFK used the FBI to his personal advantage and to silence press critics.
ENEMIES LIST! Nixon was impeached primarily for misusing the IRS. In early 1961 JFK planted family friend Carmine Bellino in the IRS with the title special consultant to the president and demanded that he have access to tax returns. They turned the IRS into a lending library. Quoting from the Wall Street Journal of January 28, 1997: the Kennedys were far worse than Nixon in their manipulation of the IRS…The documents show that the Kennedys targeted non-exempt activist groups. And the auditing was done at the behest of politicians, not the professionals at the IRS…On December 20, 1961, Rogovin forwarded to Dean J. Barron, the IRS audit director at the time, a list of 18 organizations to investigate. Scores were targeted later including: Daughters of the American Revolution, the Americans Veterans Committee, the Conservative Society of America, Americans for Constitutional Government, All-American Society, the Conservatives, the Christian Crusade, Life-Line Foundation, Christian Echoes Ministry, the National Education Program of Harding College, the Anti-Defamation League of the B’nai B’rith, the Freeman Charitable Foundation, and the Christian Anti-Communist Crusade. Many of these groups had their tax-exempt status revoked. The Kennedys also targeted corporate taxpayers and at one point had a plan to target up to 10,000 groups.
The Peace Corps was paid voluntarism for unskilled do-gooders.
Bay of Pigs, Cuba, April 15, 1961 – JFK interfered with the military operation both in planning and execution to make it worse; did not keep commitments he had made, especially for airstrikes; made public statements that the US would not support insurrection in Cuba which discouraged resistance to Castro, blamed others for its failure and lied to the public about it. JFK weakened the original plan to make it virtually certain to fail (both of the original CIA planners Esterline and Hawkins threatened to resign over the changes). JFK was directly told by Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Lemnitzer that the invasion would have very little chance of success. The Joint Chiefs in a memorandum of January 27, 1961 wrote The current Political-Para-Military Plan does not assure the accomplishment of the above objective nor has there been detailed follow-up planning to exploit that plan if it succeeds or for any direct action that might be required if the plan is found to be inadequate. JFK went ahead with the plan, according to Arthur Schlesinger, to impress Eisenhower and Kruschev. RFK led the cover-up to protect the president with a shield of lies that he had received bad advice and really didn’t know much about it. Esterline says now What I find so unacceptable is how cavalier they (the Kennedys) were in taking nearly 2,000 people and putting them out as animal bait. Four Americans and 114 CIA-trained Cubans were killed and 1,189 were captured.
Cuban Missile Crisis – JFK brought the world to the brink of nuclear holocaust by pursuing a game of nuclear chicken that defines him as the riskiest president in history. Dean Acheson said JFK was phenomenally lucky. We were too. JFK forced the public confrontation for political reasons and humiliated Kruschev, the man he had to deal with. JFK backed down on inspection for compliance and lied to the public about the resolution of the crisis, denying that we had agreed to withdraw vital U.S. installations from Turkey in exchange for the removal of Soviet missiles from Cuba – a deal which was political poison. On October 22, 1963, JFK wrote his staff in a hand-written note Is there a plan to brief and brainwash key press within 12 hours or so? By being dishonest with the American people, JFK gave the Soviets, who had the facts, the power to destroy his Presidency and thereby unduly influence him. Also the timing was dishonest, he had known about the missiles since August 22 when informed by CIA Director McCone. He announced it on October 22nd to influence Congressional elections in favor of Democrats – the classic October surprise. There is evidence that the Russians never removed their missiles, but at best the end result – status quo ante minus US missiles in Turkey – was clearly worse for the US. JFK’s handling of the crisis to the point of our nuclear annihilation was the most irresponsible act of any president in history. His body was on speed and his mind was on sex at the height of the crises – he asked McNamara about an attractive Pentagon secretary, I want her name and number. We may avert war tonight.
New terrorism – JFK ordered the CIA (100 million dollar Operation Mongoose) to sabotage the Cuban economy and assassinate Fidel Castro, showing an irresponsibility and lack of judgment bordering on dereliction. The CIA offered a 150,000 dollar open contract on Castro. Samuel Halpern, the CIA executive in charge of Task Force W whose sole purpose was to assassinate Castro, wrote that the Kennedys were obsessed about wanting Castro dead for personal reasons – because the family name was besmirched by the Bay of Pigs. Even up to his death, JFK was directing an effort to manufacture pretexts to invade Cuba. These efforts may have precipitated the Cuban missile crises.
November 1, 1963 JFK instigated a plot to overthrow and kill South Vietnam’s Premiere Diem. JFK played politics with American lives in Vietnam, he put his election ahead of American lives. He feared that Diem, who was negotiating with the North, would force Americans out before the 1964 elections. Voice of America broadcasts called for the coup, JFK had cut off pay to the Palace Guard and American advisors were attached to almost every unit that attacked the Presidential Palace. The Viet Cong made huge advances in the resulting confusion. JFK had asked Air Force General Edward Landsdale, an ex-CIA man, to go to Saigon and help get rid of Diem (he refused). Lt. Col. Lucien Conein was used instead. The fundamental planning document was the August 30, 1963, memo to Secretary of State Dean Rusk from Roger Hilsman, Assistant Sec. State for Far Eastern Affairs. It said among other things, We should encourage the coup group to destroy the palace if necessary to gain victory… and in point 10 it ordered the death of Diem. In 1961 when JFK took office there were 685 US military advisors in Vietnam and in 1963 there were 16,732 (including combat troops) in violation of the 1954 Geneva Conventions and aid had gone up to $400 million per year. Kennedy said now we have a problem in trying to make our power credible, and Vietnam looks like the place.
In the Summer of 1963, the US had 200 Atlas, Titan and Minuteman missiles, over 100 Polaris missiles and about 1700 nuclear bombers. Russia had about 50 ICBM’s and 200 long-range bombers. Our megatonnage was 10 to 1. JFK decided to give away our advantage, hold back our nuclear forces and allow the Russians to catch up on the theory that this would create an equal balance of terror and work for world peace. Kennedy’s idea, which turned out to be false, was that if the Soviets caught up that they would then stop their military buildup. This was probably the single most dangerous mistake Kennedy made.
Kennedy, like Clinton after him, slipped away from his security detail for trysts leaving the army officer with the nuclear football behind. If there had been a surprise nuclear attack against the US, we would have been defenseless.
OK Sgt. Friday — Since I grew up speaking German, I think I can trump you on your german lesson…
Ein Bismark is a jelly roll… not Berliner…
In the US, a frankfurter or a hamburger might be food… In GEMANY, they are people from either Frankfurt or Hamburg…
The closest thing to a hot dog in Germany, is a Bratwurst… far better food than a mere hot dog…
Ein Berliner means, literally, one from Berlin… JFK meant that Belin was a WORLD city… He was identifying with the Berlin people… A metaphor, if you would…
Now, since you choose to TRASH the man on the anniversary of his assasination, be my guest…
But at least get SOME of your facts straight!! That Kennedy had major health problems, all that you mention, and possibly more is not anything new…
However, given all of those pain meds, and cholesterol meds, etc., doesnt it seem just a slight bit odd that someone with osteoperosis for 30 years BEFORE he gets elected President, would have the sort of sexual stamina that he is rumored to have had?? Just think on that one a while…
“Even up to his death, JFK was directing an effort to manufacture pretexts to invade Cuba.”
And this is why he refused to sign on to Operation Northwoods?
If JFK allegedly left the nation defenseless, while he slipped away from his security to have sexual encounters, NOW — explain how, IF his whereabouts were unknown… How is it that you can state that as fact??
It must have come through secret service, or other security personnel… Who would have known where JFK was, who he was with, and would have had access to him in case of emergency…
If that is not the case, then what you allege is pure fabrication!! Especially give the medical evaluations you list earlier!!
You cant have it both ways!!
And since you mention Clinton doing something similar, the same would be true of him as well… Lies just seem to have ways of showing up as lies, the more we know of the reality of the situation!!
Lying on Thanksgiving Day… does it never end???
The point is antique stores have a lot of USA made goods with many years of life remaining. Items for the bathroom,dining,living,kitchen,outdoor furniture and many other knick knacks as well. Lots of things from solid wood, barber chairs,games,lamps,watering cans,clothes,hats, camera items,jewelry, dinner ware, food choppers,bicycles,serving trays,mirrors,telephones,pop coolers,cedar chests,old tins,signs, interesting beer bottle openers and lots of pottery.
Yep plenty of choices for gifts.
Antique stores stock a lot of items which may not be necessarily antique but stuff with age that compliments just about any room in a home. These items are not high priced and many times price can be negotiated.
Rox, in retrospect, it was more advantageous to get the Soviet Missiles out of Cuba, than to overthrow Castro, and take a chance on re-instating the corruption that had been there before Castro’s revolution…
The poster who earlier attempted to label John Grisham’s “Innocent Man” fiction, obviously knows nothing of what they post. It is a work of NON fiction… I believe the only NON fiction work Grisham has written… It is all about a true case, originating out of Ada, OK… All but a couple of the major characters in the book are still living… One has written his own account, and lives in the Kansas City area…
Whoever that poster was should do more research on such things before posting something so stupid and ludicrous!!
22-11-1963: my teacher, Mrs. Blonde-with-GREAT-Calves-Covered-in-Silk-Stockings-Over-Black-High-Heels, came back to the classroom crying, saying that President Kennedy had been shot. I was in a 2-room school located just east of McPherson, and I was in the classroom for first- through fourth-graders. I was a second-grader.
I couldn’t have cared less about Kennedy. My only thought was “what the heck could make her cry so hard?!?”
I don’t even remember her name, but I do recall the curve between the back of her knee and the top of her black high-heel shoes. It was freaking perfect.
I guess I may go to hell. >shrug<
Actually Chas, a bratwurst is typically white in color.
A boeck of mettwurst are red like an America hotdog although the taste of the German wurst is better.
A bratwurst tastes nothing like a hotdog. The only similarity is that they are both meat sausages.
That was my point, Kansas… there is no comparison to the American Hot Dog, and the german wursts…
BTW, I never said bratwurst was red… Geez, we made them at home.. I KNOW what freaking color they are!!!
There is also another kind of sausage that is more white in color than bratwurst… Knackwurst, I belive it is called… Never much liked the taste of those…
Bush TreasonSubmitted by Ed Friedemann on November 21, 2007 – 6:36am.Bush ‘involved’ in CIA leak case BBC NewsA former White House press secretary has said the US president was involved in misinforming the public over the leaking of a CIA agent’s identity. In an excerpt from his book, Scott McClellan says George W Bush helped mislead the public over the role in the affair of two White House aides. The CIA agent, Valerie Plame, says her identity was leaked because her diplomat husband opposed the Iraq war. The White House said Mr Bush would not ask anyone to pass false information. Lawsuit Mr McClellan’s…
http://article.wn.com/view/2007/11/21/Bush_involved_in_CIA_leak_case/
Kennedy’s assassination?
I wasn’t born yet.
I grew up with a great respect for Kennedy. Little of that remains.The Moon landing is all that is left of my warm feelings as to him.
Kennedy was the first to dramatically cut taxes on the super rich. In this, he set the stage for Reagan to set America back on the path to the feudal era of the robber barons.
Robert Kennedy. Now HE would have been a great President.
Kentucky abortionist quack Hamid Hussain Sheikh has been jailed on charges that he wrongly billed the state for abortions he committed at his private abortion mill in Lexington, KY. Quack Sheikh was indicted on four counts of defrauding Medicaid for abortions that he falsely reported as ultrasounds in the billing records, and defrauding the mothers by billing them as well. He could face 20 years in prison if convicted on all counts.[Keep a good thought.]Medicaid does not pay for any abortion procedures except when the mother’s life is in danger or if the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest. This is a good basis for investigating and indicting on federal charges any abortionist quack who has billed Medicaid for abortions.Following the fraud charges, further investigation turned up the usual deplorable sanitary conditions in the quack’s abortion mill, prompting possible further investigation and actions against Sheikh by the medical board.- – -
Gymnastics coach Steven Infante, 51, of New Milford, CT was indicted on various charges of rape and assault and battery, for repeatedly raping a 14-year-old girl and coercing her into an abortion mill at age 17. Infante is also accused of molesting a second girl.Connecticut abortion mills are also accused of the usual failures to report other statutory rapes, as required by law.- – -
“Having children is selfish. It’s all about maintaining your genetic line at the expense of the planet. Every person who is born uses more food, more water, more land, more fossil fuels, more trees and produces more rubbish, more pollution, more greenhouse gases, and adds to the problem of over-population.”. . . Toni Vernelli, 35, a deranged British vegan tree-hugger who demanded abortion of her baby and sterilization at age 27, rewarding herself with an annual carbon-unfriendly globe-trotting airline flight, but who has apparently not yet offered to jump off a bridge to help save the planetSee news pagehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=495495&in_page_id=1879
This is the third thread where I openly invite parkay to debate as opposed to hit and run posting.
What say you parkay? Can you defend a position? Or…are you just shoot and scoot?
“Medicaid does not pay for any abortion procedures except when the mother’s life is in danger or if the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest. This is a good basis for investigating and indicting on federal charges any abortionist quack who has billed Medicaid for abortions.”
That may be true parkay.
But? Where is medicaid for an unwed mother who cannot/will not name her babies father?
Where is such a young woman to turn to for help?
And when that baby leaves the womb you so defend its right to inhabit until it can’t, where are YOU and those like you in supporting that baby and its mother? For subsidized child day care and health care are you?
I think you need to better define your position if you even hope to be taken seriously.
Three threads I’ve invited you to debate parkay.
And I’m not even a heavy hitter here against your “side”. Heck I used to be on your side.
And you can’t even trade ideas with me?
Get yourself a can of spray paint parkay. You’ll be about as credible.
If the “abortion” Dr. did what Parkay, fake butter, claims he did, then he should go to prison… not for abortions, but for lying about the procedures.. and for fraud… And the coach?? Should be in prison for rape — not for encouraging abortion for the 14 yr old girl… Rape is a serious CRIME — and depending on the state, abortion without parental consent is LEGAL!!
Put these nut cases away from breaking laws… Dont crow about it in some anti-abortion rant!!
What methods of birth control would “fake butter” sponsor to keep such unwanted pregnancies from occuring??
Too many anti-abortion groups are also against birth control; and adoption of children by gay parents; and anything else that might help the lives of these unwanted pregnancies…
Outlawing abortions will only seek to increase the “welfare” rolls, and recipients of tax dollars!!
Unless, per chance, “fake butter” wants to make it illegal for these unwanted pregnancies to receive benefits once they are born?? (I sense that might be the next move on the part of some of the anti-abortion crowds)
Bottom line: Nobody will be allowed to marry, if they cannot reproduce; no birth control; all miscarriages will be inspected by criminal investigators; no co-habitation; no abortion; abortion will be elevated to a capital crime if the anti-abortionists take control… the courts cannot allow such tyranny!
Anybody remember how government control started?? They suggested that seat belts would be a nice thing to add to your car (belts didnt come standard yet) — then they required manufacturers to install seat belts on all new vehicles — They were lap belts at first… Then they required them to be used… Then they suggested special restraints for children — then they required special restraints for children…
NOW its ticket time if you dont wear your seat belts… in some states then can stop you for not wearing belts; in others they still cant (thankfully)…
And then, they started making TV spots that cigarettes were harmful to health… then they made the cigarette makers put warning labels on cigarette packs… then they BANNED smoking commercials from TV (hey, some of them were really good!)
Now look where we are… more and more taxes on smokers… they say they want people to quit… but they keep raising taxes to allegedly “pay” for government medical costs to take care of smokers’ illnesses… But if more and more people quit, then the additional taxes will be for naught… So, what are they REALLY using the additional taxes for???
Next could be McDonalds/Carls Jr/Wendy’s/Burger King, et al…
Extra taxes on double cheeseburgers; extra taxes on milkshakes; and fries… extra taxes on drinks with sugar… where will it stop??
Extra taxes on sugar bought at the store?? Extra taxes on soda pop at the store?? Extra taxes on Hershey bars, and ice cream?? All of those things contribute to obesity, so they say… Why not some extra taxes to pay for the government’s cost in paying for health needs of the obese and over weight?? Shoot, thats what they tell us about cigarettes!!
BUT — they wont go after beer, and wine, and hooch… Too many law makers are drinkers!!Heaven forbid they should add extra taxes for all of the alcohol related deaths that government pays for every year… NO, we wouldnt want to stop DWI’s by adding $1 per 6-pak of Coors, or Bud, or Miller… Good heavens NO, prohibition didnt work the last time, we best not go after the alcohol industry!!
Just let them come up with more and more commercials… and especially encourage the really pretty budweiser commercials during the holidays, and the super bowl… A lot of people only watch the super bowl for the commercials anyway!!
And to think, this barrage of government control all started when the government *suggested* that people start installing seat belts….
And the Sheeple followed like lemmings drowning in a river!!
I don’t see why both sides can’t meet in the fricken middle. These pro-lifers are annoying, even what they are called, (pro-lifers). Almost insinuating that the other side of people are pro-death. I want a pro-lifer to think about the abortion the next time they eat a chicken egg. Now tell me when your eating that egg, that the chicken fetus inside is developed enough to call a life. Albeit most chicken eggs we eat are sterile, but even if their not, we don’t eat the eggs that have developed, because that just wouldn’t be right. Now can’t we just apply the same reasoning with people abortions. I imagine on a moral scale, a women should be alotted the first month-two months to get an abortion, after that too much development has occurred. There should be a strict enforcment of the deadline, no pun intended. But I guess resolving an age old issue would put an end to all this two sided fighting, which some people must need, I guess its their hobby.
Hey, maybe those pictures they drive around with on the sides of their vans, etc., arent really aborted fetuses?? Maybe they are actually miscarriages?? I mean, who is going to give some Right to Life group permission to take a picture of their aborted fetus?? Huh??
But WE, what about when the fetus has a horrible anomaly- or when the woman didn’t know she was pregnant (happens more often than you think). What if she develops medical problems? What if she suddenly loses her job and becomes homeless? There are a million and one reasons why a woman might need a later term abortion, that is why they’re there. Not simply because the woman was just too lazy to get around to doing it early. I still say it’s HER body, her decision. Nobody else should make it for her.
“Too many anti-abortion groups are also against birth control; and adoption of children by gay parents; and anything else that might help the lives of these unwanted pregnancies… ”
Agreed, they only want the children born. They don’t care what happens to it later. I’ll also add, they don’t want to pay money for their care either. Perhaps they’re longing for the days when their nuns had orphanages to run.
ending abortion doesn’t end child sexual abuse. Matter of fact, I consider it futher abuse of the child to carry it to term against her will.
It’s sad to say, but compassion is peoples greatest endearment, and our greatest flaw. It’s a catch 22. On one hand, we love saving people, its only natural wanting to help people injured or sick. On the other hand, sometimes its just extreme, keeping somone alive on a breathing machine, with feeding tubes, for years, because a loved on is too selfish to let go. Or some of the severly mentally handicapped, some mentally handicapped are so mis-wired and their IQ is lower than some parrots and dogs, and the really severe cases, some even lack the capacity for certain emotions like empathy, ane yet we still allot them their special place on earth. I guess we don’t have the heart to do what animals in the wild do, let the weak weed themselves out. We have the luxury to take care of our loved ones, or complete strangers, but I think it does go a little to far sometimes, its like the human race out grew nature, we know how to cheat it, and it hasn’t quite caught up with us yet.
Political Mom,
Do you think a parent should be able to kill their 5 year old when:
the 5 year old has a horrible anomaly?
or when the woman didn’t know how hard to raise a child could be (happens more often than you think).
What if she develops medical problems, should she be able to kill her 5 year old then?
What if she suddenly loses her job and becomes homeless, should she be able to kill her 5 year old then?
There are a million and one reasons why a woman might need to kill her 5 year old, why shouldn’t she be able to?
Killing her 5 year old is not simply because the woman was just too lazy to get around to doing it early.
Nice try at a straw man (err, child) Nathan… but that was not the subject matter… Can you not manage to stay on point??
PMom is absolutely right in her post… It is the WOMAN’s choice, unless of course, you have managed to figure out how to get yourself pregnant, Nathan…
Chas,
No strawman.
I simply took the exact same argument Political Mom was using to justify abortion to justify killing a 5 year old.
The point was to show the absurdity of her reasoning.
You are right Chas, it is the womans choice. She should be able to choose to kill her 5 year old, right?
P Mom didnt SAY she wanted the right to kill 5 year old… YOU added that to the scenario…
Try this — YOU have the right to carry concealed weapons… That is the LAW… You also know I am not so sure about the efficacy of that law…
YOU post here all the time how PRO LIFE you are… and yet you fight tooth and nail to be able to carry on your person a weapon that has the potential for taking another life…
You also post that you are in favor of the DEATH penalty in certain circumstances…
You also post that you would not be opposed to mining the borders… (even put up warning signs — in which language??) And yet, you hang on to being PRO LIFE!!!
PRO LIFE only on the unborn, right Nathan??
NO, Nathan, NOBODY has said they are in favor of killing 5 year old children… I do believe that what is being said, is that if some people would have chosen abortion, then perhaps some of those children who are 5 years old would not be living in the sub-human conditions their health problems have put them in..
YOU sir, injected the totally prepostorous idea of killing a 5 year old child… And YES, Nathan, that is a straw man!! Because it is a fictitious idea from YOUR little mind!!
“A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position.[1] To “set up a straw man” or “set up a straw man argument” is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. Often, the straw man is set up to deliberately overstate the opponent’s position.[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent’s actual argument has not been refuted.[2]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Well, its been a pretty good Thanksgiving Day so far…
Good night; Good luck; and God bless; whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings All!! (+)
Chas,
First of all, if you are going to try to use big words like “strawman argument” at least try to understand them.
Do I think that women should be able to kill a 5 year old? No.
I am pointing out the absurdity of the reasoning used by Political Mom.
All her reasons or justifications for an abortion could easily be applied to killing a 5 year old to.
So do you support killing a 5 year old for those reasons?
Since you want to make this personal, as a self proclaimed Christian, do you believe that Jesus was only alive after his birth or while he was in the womb?
Ah yes,
Run along Chas. You never did mention if you believed in this commandment or not:
“You shall have no other gods before Me.”
Do you believe that or do you have some other interpretation?
Nathan,
I dont often agree with your arguments but I think you are dead on in your position wit pmom,they way I see it the only d difference between a late term abortion and killing a five year old for the stated reasons is the lenght of time the child is alive.
Chas,
What is the link between carrying a licensed hand gun and abortion? Inquiring minds would like to know
Freebird — it is the PRO LIFE question… He carries a concealed weapon, which can potentially KILL a living being… and this is considered OK… But abortion isnt??
Now, I am going to bed… tomorrow is another day…
BTW, there is NO similarity whatsoever between a late term abortion, and killing a 5 yr old child… That is a terrible excuse of a fallacy argument!!
They are both killing a living being the only difference is the age of the child.
Chas,
Question would you council a member of your congregation who had an unplanned pregancy that abortion is ok?
Let me rephrase my question would you present you parishoioner with abortion as an option?
Freebird,
Thanks. My point is that if you want to argue about abortion and why you think it is the womans choice, more power to you.
When you start using reasoning like Political Mom does you should be prepared to take it to it’s logical extreme.
Ultimately, it comes down to you thinking the unborn child is a human life worth protecting or you don’t.
If you don’t, then why do you need to even try to give reason for a woman being able to choose?
Chas,
You seem to be under the delusion that being Pro-Life means something completely different than what 99% of Pro-Life people think.
Please tell us your definition of the term.
Chas,
Slow down and take a moment to actually think about what I am saying instead of jumping off the deep end like usual.
I am not arguing that killing a 5 year old is the same thing as killing an unborn child.
I am saying that the argument being used by Political Mom can be logically extended to a 5 year old child.
Try to stay on point this time.
Nathan,
One thing that really irks me is people using mental retardation or a handicap as a reason for abortion. My ex worked as DON at Winfield State Hosp. the 2 years before it closed. I interacted often with patients there and they were some of the most loving cheerfull people that I have ever seen. Thank God their mothers decided not to murder them.
ChasAs you said a hand gun has the POTENTIAL to kill a human being. On the other hand an abortion is CERTAIN death for the child. I still do not see the link
Funny how freebird knows that chas is a minister. Not so new I guess.
JM,
Freebird already admitted to being a lurker the other day.
What does it matter?
I welcome anyone who isn’t bent on simply causing a problem like you and your merry little band are.