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105 Comments
I was going through some papers today and found the first letter my son (a former Marine} sent me from the Kuwait Iraq border from about a month before this clusterf**k started. I’ quoting him now, “Dear dad, Kuwait is a sh**hole. Anybody with half a brain would see that if it wasn’t for trying to control the oil, nobody wouold give a damn what happened over here.” This is from a then 22 year old man. My question to all you blind Bushbots is if a 22yr old can get it why can’t you?
Oh I expect an attack from Nathan and Hank
Freebird,
Why would you expect an attack from my father or I?
There are people in the armed forces who have different opinions about the war.
I find your post rather inflamatory though.
You ask a question which also calls us blind bushbots and then single my father and I out as if you are expecting us to attack you.
The only one doing any attacking here was you by starting off with the label of blind bushbots.
WOW!
I am seriously going to have to think more about Huckabee now!
Check this out, I have two words for you:
CHUCK NORRIS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjYv2YW6azE
Speaking of letters from sons, I got one today from my son in basic, He fooking loves it! Talks about how his platoon is doing so well and he has been smoked so much he is thinking of change his name to “Swisher sweet”. He will be back before Christmas then back for graduation in Jan. I am so glad he is doing well and feels he made the right decision. LOL I guess he has given up the thought that Mexico would be nice!
Nathan,
Because I have seen in the past that anyone who disagrees with you is automatically branded as wrong. As for the blind bushbot thing I have never read a post from you or your father that did not defend or rationalize anything that man did. I get the feeling that you believe that there are only 2 things Bush hasn’t done and those are walk on water and raise the dead.
Writer,
I am I correct in assuming your son is at the MCRD in San Diego? My Son’s nickname in boot was ostrich ass. He is 6′4″ and moved in formation and the DI said “Private, don’t think I dont see your ostrich ass moving in my formation!”
If his son is getting “smoked” at “basic” my guess is he is in the Army.
Freebird,
For someone predicting my father and I attacking you, you seem to be the only one doing the attacking here.
Unless you are a nic switcher, I don’t think you have seen enough of my father or my postings to be able to make that kind of judgement about us either.
Nathan,
Can you show me one post that you have ever said Bush was wrong? As for nic switching I have been reading these blogs sin July and onl now decided to start posting, so no I’m not nic switching
Nathan,
where in my post did I specically call you and your dad blind bushbots? I think my statement was “My question to all you blind Bushbots is if a 22yr old can get it why can’t you?” Don’t belive Hank and Nathan were in the statement.
Dwight Fortney,
If you are not nic switching then why would you be responding to something posted by Freebird as if you are Freebird?
If you didn’t really mean to call my father and I blind bushbots then why did you respond as if you did?
Nathan
Answer my question, where did I call you and your dad Bushbots?
Nathan,
Sorry about the statement about nic switching. It shows that I am signed in as Freebird but is showing my last couple of posts under Dwight Fortney.
I am Freebird
Dwight,
Your question was posed to anyone who didn’t have the view of your son that the war was about oil.
Your question then labeled those as being blind bushbots.
Then, you specifically mention my father and I as if you were expecting my father and I to respond.
After I pointed out the comment you then said:
” As for the blind bushbot thing I have never read a post from you or your father that did not defend or rationalize anything that man did.”
Which further confirmed you meant the post towards my father and I.
And now you try to act as if you didn’t specifically call my father and I blind bushbots?
So, if my father and I were not really meant to be included in the question labeling people as blind bushbots who was?
Guys do you ever think people get fed up with all the crap you though at each other tying to push each other down… just STOP please!
Nathan,As I stated earlier I did not specifically call you and your Dad blind bushbots. What I meant was that you 2 seem to jump on anyone who disagrees wioth your position. If I offended you and your father, my sincere apologies.
On the other hand I have to admire the way you and your dad stand up for what you believe popular or not. Don’t know how old you are but enjoy both your parents. My dad a vet of WW2 passed in Jan. and I really miss him. Treasure the time you spend with your parents
Nathan,
In case you are interested my son was with the 3rd Marine Air Wing fire crash and rescue out of Mirimar
Nathan, I have to agree that I have never seen you do anything but attack anybody who attacks BushCo. And most of the time, the same goes for your Dad, too.
So, I think Freebird has a point.
Like it or not, Bush is Nathan’s Commander-in-Chief, as I think Nathan is still in the Marine Reserve.
Are the Libs saddened he is not like John Kerry where he came back told lies before Congress while still in the Navy Reserves?
Lots of the desert in the Middle East is not pleasant Freebird.
I was in the military as well and I can tell you, standard fare for some 22 year olds is complaining. Evidently your son is a complainer Freebird. Did you not raise him better to accept his responsibilities? He wasn’t drafted, he volunteered – “Man up son!”
You didn’t say what your son didn’t like about Kuwait. The Middle East is a culture shock for those who haven’t been there, a whole new set of rules. It’s not the land of McDonalds and video games.
He’s probably getting dogged by his NCO’s to get work done above and beyond. That’s what happens in a combat zone. The Mission comes first, everything else will be prioritized by your chain of Command.
What exactly was your son expecting to find in Kuwait? It’s out of the active zone and at least he doesn’t have to worry about a lot of people shooting at him. What are the matters concerning your son.
Note, this would be a similar lecture I would give to a young troop who is complaining or has a bad attitude.
It’s not always “pleasant” being in the military – sometimes one must do stuff that is boringly mundane or stomach churning frightening.
Welcome sir to the United States Military. It’s a different world.
Likewise, I agree w/ Freebird and “dot”. I have too often witnessed your knee-jerk reactions to posts critical to Bush and his ilks, and also on your Taliban-like intolerance to non-Nathan-approved interpretation of christianity. Gee-whiz, I wonder what your opinion would be on the the position of Pope as Vicar of Christ, and seeking Mother Mary’s intercession in prayers.
That post was mainly addressed to Nathan, BTW.
Freebird–
Welcome to the forums. Your son is entirely correct. He didn’t give away his first amendment rights–his inalienable rights–when he joined the military. He of all people should be able to speak his mind, since he’s defending our right to speak ours.
Secondly, you don’t need to apologize to Nathan. He IS a blind Bush-bot, just like his heroes Rush O’Hannity. The only negative thing I’ve ever heard him or his father say about Bush is that he wasn’t as good as Reagan.
Instead of explaining years of defending the indefensible W., Nathan nitpicks your criticism that he’s a Bush-bot.
Well, he is a Bush-bot.
You were right. These people will argue that “day is night” until the cows come home if you let them.
Don’t let them.
That last message brought to you by CapnAmerica, the Blog’s leader of the immoral minority.
Welcome to posting Dwight/freebird. Trust your first impressions re:the Price boys. “kansas” also should be treated like part of the landscape. In most cases, ugly places best to walk on by.
Dear Freebird, Dwight or whoever,
I appreciate the fact that after basically calling the boy and me ‘blind bushbots’ you feel the need to deny it.
Now, who were you referring to with your inflamatory start to the day? Do you really want an answer or was it merely a rhetorical question?
And if you don’t consider Nathan and me to be ‘blind busbots’ why did you ‘expect an attack’?
I don’t think you want to have a civil exchange. I think you post to merely attack anyone that doesn’t aggree with you.
Dwight/Freebird:
Nathan & Hank may be somewhat predictable; at least most of the left thinks so, because they don’t march in lockstep with the VERY predictable JR/Capn/JM/JM/JM/JM cabal. They dare to disagree. How intolerable.
This group labeling anyone as knee-jerk is ironically amusing, to say the least.
Welcome, in any case. Don’t be afraid to say what you think; just be prepared, if you dare to disagree with the above cabal, to be similarly labeled. And most of us are less interested in what you call yourself than the opinions you express, and the respect you give others. In that respect, your beginning was less than auspicious.
Welcome anyway.
Hey GMC70,
I suspect that Freebird/Dwight isn’t as new as he pretends to be.
Yes, the boy and I are predictable. That’s what happens when your values and opinions are guided by a set of principles.
Liberals like Feebird/Dwight would rather assume what our response would be based on their preconcieved notions of what we stand for and then base their comments on their misconceptions.
They either do it because they have no good response to an argument based on principles or they do it out of ignorance.
It’s obvious that Freebird/Dwight has no desire to understand my position.
Welcome Dwight/Freebird.
I don’t know if it is completely fair to call Hank/Nathan bushbots because they occasionally depart from the party line. I remember Hank, I think, saying Bush was not a true conservative. With his recent vetos, I guess Bush is trying to dispel that “myth”.
Anyway, this can be an interesting place. Welcome.
I have wondered, too, if any of our conservative friends are concerned at all about the falling value of the dollar against most world currencies? It is starting to worry me a great deal. At this rate, my mutal funds/retirement money soon won’t be worth anything.
Is there some way to blame the falling dollar value on Clinton? Can’t wait for that one. Where is Max when you need him?
New Zealand bars British man’s ‘fat’ wife
A British man who moved to New Zealand has been told by officials that his wife is too fat to join him.
Richie Trezise, 35, a rugby-playing Welshman, lost weight to gain entry to New Zealand after initially being rejected for being overweight and a potential burden on the health care system.
Richie and Rowan Trezise have been battling to shed pounds
His wife, Rowan, 33, a photographer, has been battling for months to shed the pounds so they can be reunited and live Down Under but has so far been unable to overcome New Zealand’s weight regulations.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=BSP124JUQA4GZQFIQMGSFGGAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2007/11/17/wfat117.xml
Hey Steven,
The falling dollar is good news/bad news.
Because of our ‘oil economy’ the falling dollar inflates the price of oil and effects all aspects of our economy.
On the other hand, it makes US products more attractive on the world market. Kinda balances out.
I’m concerned because I’m going to London next month and a British pound is now worth over two dollars. Thankfully, everything was paid for last month, except for meals and cabs.
A lot of the reason for the falling dollar in Europe is because the EU is playing shenanigans with the Euro.
The EU has artificially inflated the Euro by manipulating their own money markets and if it doesn’t self correct, the Europeans are going to take it on the chin and then everyone is going to be hollering
My question to all you blind Bushbots is if a 22yr old can get it why can’t you?
I didn’t hear anyone complaining when the Coalition fought the first Gulf War when Kuwait.
That war must have been great!
Is there some way to blame the falling dollar value on Clinton?
-Steven
Who is to blame?Nixon for nixing the dollar’s peg to gold. The dollar’s fiat currency status means that the head bankers can rob us of the value of our labor through engineering pseudo-economic growth resulting in inflation.
Why did we care if Iraq took Kuwait!
It was none of our business!
There were almost Zero complaints about that war.
Had US troops marched another 100 miles, Saddam would have been taken out 15 years sooner.
But the Libs wouldn’t want to violate any UN Resolution which called for action to remove Iraqi troops from Kuwait, and not go too far north.
If you remember, the Press took great care to attack the US for destroying an entire column of Iraqi troops on the highway going back to Bagdad.
Oh, and the thousands of Iraqi soldiers bombed into the sand by B-52’s, that was horrible.
Dam the US for winning!
Had Bush Sr done the right thing and taken Saddam out then, Bush Sr would have caught all kinds of H in the press and from the UN.
But the problem would have been solved in 1991.
Both Iraq wars were wrong!
The first Bush was wrong then, and the second Bush is wrong now.
We don’t need any mideast oil!
But, did Cheney Himself advised NOT to march to Baghdad, due to the potential chaos?
roo-ster
You would be keeewrecked
Hey Steven,
The falling dollar is good news/bad news.
Because of our ‘oil economy’ the falling dollar inflates the price of oil and effects all aspects of our economy.
On the other hand, it makes US products more attractive on the world market. Kinda balances out.
I’m concerned because I’m going to London next month and a British pound is now worth over two dollars. Thankfully, everything was paid for last month, except for meals and cabs.
The export aspect of a weak dollar would be intriguing execpt the US doesn’t manufacture much,On the upside maybe in all the shit made in China is doubled in price, manufacturing in the US can rebound.
oO!
Latest Iowa Poll Shows Obama Leading the Pack
While the top three Democratic presidential candidates are locked in a fierce campaign battle for Iowa, one candidate is riding a new wave of support.
According to the latest Washington Post/ABC News poll released Tuesday, Sen. Barack Obama has surged to a 4 point lead over Hillary Clinton, and an 8 point lead over John Edwards.
In a survey of likely Democratic caucus-goers in Iowa, Obama draws support from 30 percent, compared with 26 percent for Clinton and 22 percent for former senator John Edwards. New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson received 11 percent, The Washington Post reports.
n a Nov. 12-14 Mason-Dixon poll of 625 regular Florida voters, a matchup between Giuliani and Democratic national frontrunner Hillary Clinton put him ahead 50-43 percent. GOP rivals Fred Thompson and Rudy Giuliani also were ahead of Clinton statistically, but within the poll’s 4 percent margin of error.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312245,00.html
Cheney thought invading Iraq in the Gulf war was a bad idea, funny i never pegged him for a liberalhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YENbElb5-xY
Bling bushbot is over the top! They’re not blind, they just can’t see the truth.
LI’L SCOTTIE McCLELLAN ADMITS HE WAS FORCED TO LIE FOR LIARS
To no one’s surprise in a world where top White House aides with any president eventually write a book about it, former Press Sectetary Scott McClellan will be coming out with his volume in April.
It’s called “What Happened” and its publisher, Public Affairs, at its Web site carries this brief excerpt:
“The most powerful leader in the world had called upon me to speak on his behalf and help restore credibility he lost amid the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. So I stood at the White house briefing room podium in front of the glare of the klieg lights for the better part of two weeks and publicly exonerated two of the senior-most aides in the White House: Karl Rove and Scooter Libby.
“There was one problem. It was not true.
“I had unknowingly passed along false information. And five of the highest ranking officials in the administration were involved in my doing so: Rove, Libby, the vice President, the President’s chief of staff, and the president himself.”
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003675070
“Thankfully, everything was paid for last month, except for meals and cabs.”
Heh, big “except for,” Hank.
I’d take some ramen noodles with you, and be prepared for living on digestive biscuits and nutella.
Either that or you’ll be eating the most expensive bad hamburger and pizza you’ve ever had . . .
Last time I checked, the British museum and the Nat’l Art Gallery at Trafalger Square were still free.
Otherwise, might be a good time to go on that diet. You and your wallet can both come home lighter . . .
Bling= Blind
Now if only Libby would come out and write his memoirs, we could impeach both Cheney and bush.
If China ever figures out that about the only thing we have left to export is aircraft and the dollar, we’re in deep shit.
The falling dollar is bad. The Fed needs to allow a cooling off to strengthen the dollar. If the dollar continues to slide, foreign holders of the currency will continue to slowly diversify into other currencies. This will continue the problem as it will flood the world market with more dollars.
Most Americans support a weak dollar (ie low interest rates) because most Americans are in debt. Low interest rates help those who have mortgages and other debt. Those who have savings will loose unless it is smartly invested.
It would be nice to be able to trust our own currency to retain its value. But when we allow our government to determine its value, we get what is coming.
So whu is it we need ESC again…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7101834.stm
The only thing Bush is paying attention to is Israel, he’s not minding our store.
Israel has Bush totally consumed, and with him letting Israel run loose and threatening WW lll, our dollar can’t stay afloat.
Check it out..http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/922051.html
“On the other hand, it makes US products more attractive on the world market. Kinda balances out.”
Hank,I heard on NPR the other day about a business in New England that makes medical supplies that it sells mainly in Germany – that company is making a killing due in large part to the dollar devaluation. I would wonder though if the number of people in the U.S. hurt by the devaluation is much greater than those who gain by it.
Someone else said above that people in debt will benefit from devalued dollars. Is that true? And how does that work?
Is it me – or is there something vaguely discomfitting about a non-heterosexual man who’s been “outed” as having touted non-protected amatory adventures of a certain kind condemning abortion?
Until days ago (upon perusing the Wikipedia entry (no pun intended) for this journalist and savvy commentator), I greatly admired this intelligent young man. I learned that, sorrowfully, he is HIV-positive. Regardless of this, he’s admitted to Internet pandering of a certain type of activity that many of us find vile – protected or not.
Yet he condemns abortion.
Like me, he is a disaffected Catholic. Like me, he still loves his faith – and rages against it when it wounds him. Unlike me, he’s remained a Catholic, despite harboring many of the same doubts that I do.
As most of us know, it isn’t always indulgence in questionable sexual practices that results in untimely pregnancies. There’s that persistent social problem called “rape.” Insufficient fertility planning methods creep in there, too. Emotional and/or mental retardation can be a factor, as can the exploitative tendencies of the dissolute among us.
Call me a narcissist if you must, but I tend to bristle when promiscuous people who can never become pregnant proceed to make sweeping judgments about me and millions of others.
Like this excellent commentator and journalist, I too harbor deep and abiding pain about abortion. But that doesn’t translate to absolute prohibition. Like this wonderfully evocative young writer, I too cannot always live up to the ideals of my youthful Catholicism.
Sadly, however, human vulnerabilities and temptation don’t equate to engaging in perilous and disrespectful sexual practices.
And if I were HIV-positive, I couldn’t conscion imperiling other people.
I must mourn the agonizing deaths of self-aborting women as much as I abhor the toll AIDS has enacted. If we are to truly respect life – ALL LIFE – we must strive toward more efficacious means of preventing pregnancies.
Until that time, I don’t believe a practicing non-heterosexual male should pretend to know what I and so many others have suffered.
Good Day Captain!
Nah, don’t worry about me. We have reservations at a very nice Italian restuarant one night. The little bed and breakfast we’re staying in has a full English breakfast to get us started in the morning and it’s already paid for. Then a couple of evenings we have two favorite pubs we like to go to. A little pricey, but we’ll manage.
In the afternoon we’ll have high tea to get us through.
We’re only going t be there for three days, so I think four or five hundred dollars should be enough for train and taxi fares.
Hey Steven,
It depends on what kind of debt they have. It also depends on inflation to a certain extent. If I borrow a hundred dollars from you when it will buy a hundred loaves of bread then pay you back later at a time it will only buy 50 loaves of bread I appear to have made out.
When our dollar is devalued on the world market, widgets made in China aren’t quite as competitive with the widgets made in the us. Americans will tend to buy American made products over foriegn made. That provides a balance to the devaluation of the dollar’s effect on the economy.
All well and good, unless you’re trying to buy fish and chips in London!
Supreme Court Will Decide Challenge to District of Columbia Handgun Ban
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312338,00.html
Maybe we’ll settle this issue, finally.
And maybe the Dems will have to take a stand, and state their position.
Hillary: Oh, I’ll support whatever the Supreme Court decides.
Obama: I’ll support whatever Hillary supports.
Edwards: I’ll support whatever Obama supports.
Hank,
Don’t forget the fish and chips, one of my favorites when I visited London.
Of course, the last time I visited London, one could walk right up to the front door of #10 Downing Street, so things may have changed. :)
Someone else said above that people in debt will benefit from devalued dollars. Is that true? And how does that work?
Posted by: Steven Davis
People in dollar debt and who are paid in dollars will not be affected one way or the other by a devalued dollar.
If the devaluation is based on inflation of the US dollar however, then they would benefit. That’s what Hank was talking about.
But that’s not what is happening now. Because the Fed has pushed down our interest rates here, that helps people who are carrying debt who can re-negotiate their loans or who want to take on new debt.
Low interest rates make the dollar less attractive to foreign investors though. Ergo, the demand for the dollar goes down and demand for other currencies goes up.
They revalue, we devalue.
We need to get out of Iraq quick!
NY Times
November 19, 2007U.S. Says Attacks in Iraq Fell to Feb. 2006 Level
By CARA BUCKLEY and MICHAEL R. GORDON
BAGHDAD, Nov. 18 — The American military said Sunday that the weekly number of attacks in Iraq had fallen to the lowest level since just before the February 2006 bombing of the Shiite shrine in Samarra, an event commonly used as a benchmark for the country’s worst spasm of bloodletting after the American invasion nearly five years ago.
Data released at a news conference in Baghdad showed that attacks had declined to the lowest level since January 2006. It is the third week in a row that attacks have been at this reduced level.
The statistics on attack trends have long been a standard measure that the American military has used to assess violence in Iraq. Because the data have been gathered for years and are deemed generally reliable they allow analysts to identify trends.
Military officials said the attacks were directed against American and Iraqi forces, as well as civilians. But since the source for the data is American military reports, and not the Iraqi government, the figures do not provide an exhaustive measure of sectarian violence.
Nonetheless, the figures added to a body of evidence, compiled by American and Iraqi officials, indicating that the violence had diminished significantly since the United States reinforced troop levels in Iraq and adopted a new counterinsurgency strategy.
Dummy is willing to shed the last drop of someone else’s blood.
And spend someone else’s money too.
“indicating that the violence had diminished significantly since the United States reinforced troop levels in Iraq and adopted a new counterinsurgency strategy.”
IF TRUE, that means that BushCo spent five years doing what didn’t work.
Nice.
The devalued dollar should lead to a demand for more dollars to compensate for the loss in purchasing power (inflation). However, I believe the Chinese currency is pegged to the dollar, and since they are our primary supplier of goods, there will probably be little inflation there. If they decide to let their currency float, our cost for durable goods and just about everything else will go up.I read that companies do not make capital investments based on the devaluation of the dollar as they can have no assurance how long the devaluation will last. So unless they are already manufacturing here, they probably won’t start.
I would also expect inflation in American made products. Driven by the high price of oil and energy, as well as food and medicine. Will primarilly impact the poor and working class as the rich pay a miniscule percentage of their income for such basics.
Hey Kansas,
There is a little pub not to far from the theater district that we like to go to for fish and chips, you haven’t had fish and chips unless you’ve got them in London!
We were there about three years ago and things were fairly tight then. I would imagine that things haven’t got any better.
Hank,
That’s cool you have favorite spots in London, wish I could say the same. Most of my stops were typical tourist spots. :)
To show you what a non-drinker I am, I experienced the “bite” of dark ale while I was there.
I was scheduled to go on a tour to the Tower of London.
It was really hot that day, it was in July and I had worked up up sweat pacing around outside on my own walking tour.
So, I ordered a dark ale from the bar inside the Hotel. I was really thirsty, so I ordered another. These were tall glasses, like 1/2 liter each.
Needless to say, the tour driver came in and announced they were ready to board the bus. The bartender noticed me in the corner and stated something to the effect that “This Yank in the corner will be cooling his heels at the Pub this afternoon.”
I was sound asleep from intoxication from the two ales.
heh
I think the shiites are just keeping their powder dry until we leave, the the battle for dominance will begin in earnest. The sunnis meanwhile are trying to buddy up with the u.s. to get more money/arms for that day. They also have the added benefit of pushing the overbearing and suppresive al-quida religious extremist. After we leave, they may once again feel they need the suicide bombers help, and make amends.
Hey Kansas,
We’re not going to be there long, hopefully I’ll find another one or two favorite spots!
I learned my lesson in Holy Loch, Scotland. The pints go down so smooth. . .
Leaving Iraq Phantom?
When is Hillary taking US troops out of Iraq, 2013? Was that her last position, I can’t remember
Hillary’s political position on any issue is rather like the Kansas weather.
It changes every hour.
I know Hank, and that’s why I can’t figure out why Democrats think Hillary is going to end the war in Iraq any time soon.
Hillary can’t even answer a simple question, about drivers licenses in New York.
How is Hillary gonna answer the tough questions?
Maybe some more of the truth on Plame’s outing will come out.Former aide blames Bush for leak deceit By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer
31 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – Former White House press secretary Scott McClellan blames President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney for efforts to mislead the public about the role of White House aides in leaking the identity of a CIA operative.
ADVERTISEMENT
In an excerpt from his forthcoming book, McClellan recounts the 2003 news conference in which he told reporters that aides Karl Rove and I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby were “not involved” in the leak involving operative Valerie Plame.
“There was one problem. It was not true,” McClellan writes, according to a brief excerpt released Tuesday. “I had unknowingly passed along false information. And five of the highest-ranking officials in the administration were involved in my doing so: Rove, Libby, the vice president, the president’s chief of staff and the president himself.”
Bush’s chief of staff at the time was Andrew Card.
The excerpt, posted on the Web site of publisher PublicAffairs, renews questions about what went on in the West Wing and how much Bush and Cheney knew about the leak. For years, it was McClellan’s job to field — and often duck — those types of questions.
Now that he’s spurring them, answers are equally hard to come by.
White House press secretary Dana Perino said it wasn’t clear what McClellan meant in the excerpt and she had no immediate comment. McClellan turned down interview requests Tuesday.
Plame maintains the White House quietly outed her to reporters. Plame and her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, said the leak was retribution for his public criticism of the Iraq war. The accusation dogged the administration and made Plame a cause celebre among many Democrats.
McClellan’s book, “What Happened,” isn’t due out until April, and the excerpt released Monday was merely a teaser. It doesn’t get into detail about how Bush and Cheney were involved or reveal what happened behind the scenes.
In the fall of 2003, after authorities began investigating the leak, McClellan told reporters that he’d personally spoken to Rove, who was Bush’s top political adviser, and Libby, who was Cheney’s chief of staff.
“They’re good individuals, they’re important members of our White House team, and that’s why I spoke with them, so that I could come back to you and say that they were not involved,” McClellan said at the time.
Both men, however, were involved. Rove was one of the original sources for the newspaper column that identified Plame. Libby also spoke to reporters about the CIA officer and was convicted of lying about those discussions. He is the only person to be charged in the case.
Since that news conference, however, the official White House stance has shifted and it has been difficult to get a clear picture of what happened behind closed doors around the time of the leak.
McClellan’s flat denials gave way to a steady drumbeat of “no comment.” And Bush’s original pledge to fire anyone involved in the leak became a promise to fire anyone who “committed a crime.”
In a CNN interview earlier this year, McClellan made no suggestion that Bush knew either Libby or Rove was involved in the leak. McClellan said his statements to reporters were what he and the president “believed to be true at the time based on assurances that we were both given.”
Bush most recently addressed the issue in July after commuting Libby’s 30-month prison term. He acknowledged that some in the White House were involved in the leak. Then, after repeatedly declining to discuss the ongoing investigation, he said the case was closed and it was time to move on.
I can’t figure out why Democrats think Hillary is going to end the war in Iraq any time soon.
Hillary can’t even answer a simple question, about drivers licenses in New York.
How is Hillary gonna answer the tough questions?
just another lying phoney con trying to hurt Mr. Bush
I think there’s going to be a shift in the polls before long. Sooner or later Edwards will have to bale out. A lot of his support is ‘anyone but Hillary support’ and most will go to Obama.
Obama leads in Iowa and if he comes out of the Iowa caucus first or a very close second, Hillary may not get annointed like she’s counting on. Obama is also gaining on Hillary in New Hampshire. Sooner or later the second tier dems are going to start dropping out. Most of their support will probably go to Obama.
My man, Huchkabee is making considerable progress in Iowa. Really amazing considering the fact that he doesn’t have as much money as the competition.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/20/politics/main3528548.shtml
“just another lying phoney con trying to hurt Mr. Bush”Here he is in action: just another lying phoney con trying to hurt Mr. Bush
“Max” –
Spare us all your crocodile tears.
If George WMD Bush wanted to end the war in Iraq he could do it tomorrow.
All the power of the war is centered in the Oval Office and Americans know all too well the war is in the hands of an incompetent.
Anything the next President — Republic or Democrat — has to face is dependent upon the utter failures of George WMD Bush. No one can be sure just how much more he’ll fuc# it up between now and Janurary 20, 2009.
But if his past performance is any indication, it’ll be much, much worse than it is today.
McCelland has a book to sell as did Joe Wilson, Tenet and many others who promised substance and instead gave us tripe. I’ll withhold comment until I see the book.
Does the fact that Armitage said he was the leak mean anything to anyone?
Oops, I meant to paste this clihttp://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/mcclellan.htmp:
Armitage was just another faucet.
So, “Hank Price” –
Do you agree with your kid that the push-polling against Romney’s Mormonism is a legitimate political technique?
Becausethe only person in the race who could possibly benefit from such religious baiting is “your man Huckabee.”
It’s remarkable to watch people such as you crow about your “principles” then accept campaign tactics such as the anti-Mormon push-polls.
“One may smile and smile and be a villain.”
Kansas regarding your 7:42 am post My son did man up in fact he joined the Marines in high school. He did his duty because he said he swore an oath, his duty was fire crash and rescue for the 3rd Marine Air Wing. the air field he was stationed at expierenced scud misslle attacks.
As far as what I taught him, I taught him to be his own man, to think for himself, and to express his beliefs and opinons. I also taught him to accept resposibilty for his actions. Hope the way I raised him meets with your approval.
Freebird,
“Scud missile attacks”? How long ago are we talking here?
So you are saying it was all about oil when Iraq fired missiles over their borders into another country? Perhaps for Iraq?
Was it about oil when Saddam ordered missiles fired at aircraft in the no fly zone in the 10 years after the first Gulf War?
How many “bushbots” are in the armed services?
Who were you before than you know Nathan and Hank?
What prompted this verbal attack so early in the morning?
Got something festering there?
My son was stationed at Al jabar(sp?) airfield he was there when the war started and yes the did get hit with scuds. I was not posting before I was just sitting back reading the posts from you and your ilk and decided to respond. Well if you dont believe it was about oil, what do you believe the war was about. Oh, I know WMDs, how is that search going?
I am sure he believes it was and is about freedom and Christ @ the end of a gun
Kansas,
As far as what I have festering it is the fact that a lot of your cronies who support this war have either never served or dont have a family member serving. I exclude from this group you Hank and Nathan becuase you not only talk the talk you walked the walk and I thank you for that. It is the people like Bush and Cheney who are so eager to send other peoples kids off to die that really pisses me off. I count nmy self blessed that my son didnt come home in a box
Dear Mr. Pickens,
Thank you for your response to my acceptance of your challenge.
I’m grateful that you are prepared to make good on your word and fulfill the offer you made publicly at the American Spectator Dinner in Washington, D.C. on November 6th.
I must remind you, however, that this was and is your “challenge,” not mine. You are, after all, the one who said explicitly at the dinner — in a way that was calculated to challenge any naysayer — that you would give one million dollars “to anyone who could show that anything the SBVT said was false.” (RedState.Com) These were your words — and nowhere did you ever suggest, as you are now trying to, that your challenge referred specifically and exclusively to any advertising by the SBVT.
As you know, the lies of the SBVT were not confined just to their ads; they were a constant barrage of television, radio, Internet, speeches, and forums in which — significantly bankrolled by you — they launched and repeated lie after lie. Your challenge expressly stood behind all of their allegations.
It is disturbing that in reaffirming the challenge you issued, your parsing and backtracking seems eerily reminiscent of the entire approach of the SBVT — say one thing, put out an allegation, then duck and weave, hedge and bob when your words catch up with you. I want to believe that this was not your intent because I am told that you are a man of your word, not “all hat and no cattle.”
Honor and duty, which you purport to defend, demand that you not selectively back away from your original challenge. Your offer clearly said — boldly, unequivocally — to an audience of your friends and supporters — that you would give “a million dollars to anyone who could prove wrong anything the Swiftboat Veterans charged about Kerry.” (AmericanThinker.com) In my letter, that is the offer which I accepted.
I was interested to read in your response that you don’t want to see the SBVT “maligned,” and that you aim “to prevent this important part of American history from being unfairly portrayed.” I accepted your offer precisely because I want to prevent the honorable records of the courageous men who served with me from being maligned by the repeated lies of this organization. I want to see the word “Swiftboat” restored to its original meaning — synonymous with honorable service to country, not political lies aimed to distort and divide. I would hope that your interests should also be in protecting the record of all those who served our country.
As I’ve said to you before, I am prepared to prove the lie and marshal all the evidence, the question is whether you are prepared to fulfill your obligation — no variations, no back pedaling, no retreat, no new bets, no changing the subject.
The only thing remaining now is to set the date for our meeting in an appropriate forum, after which I look forward to you keeping your word and writing a check for one million dollars payable to the Paralyzed Veterans of America so that we can put your money to good work for veterans who have returned home from Iraq and Afghanistan.
Sincerely,
John F. KerryUnited States Senator
It would appear mr. Pickens’s bluff has been called.
Lest some of the bush lovers forget, in calling Kerry a liar, they call those who stand with Kerry liars as well.
There’s that selective support of the troops who agree with ya syndrome again. I think Rush Limbaugh teaches a course on that.
And the Mc Clellan thing. Double bad news for bush.
If this as it appears to be, we will learn much about some of our posters here. For if they forgive bush for exposing a CIA agent, and then forgive him lying about it, it becomes clear that for them he can do no wrong.
A dangerous standard to hold for an American president. Telling also of the character of those who would go that distance in the defense of one man.
He read Pickens latest response exactly as we had, as any impartial reasonable person would. Pickens back trackec, and tried to change a public challenge into a bet and change also the conditions of the challenge. Typical Repub. response when their words catch up with them.
Freebird, not only that but those without a dog in the fight are perfectly content to see the same troops sent back repeatedly, I guess until they get it right, or die trying. On top of that they aren’t even willing to pay/go for the war.
Wow JR you went a day without name calling?
I must have missed it somewhere.
That would be a record for you.
Save the world.
You are right Phantom, I work with a woman who is facing her husband being deployed for the 2nd time in 3 years, he is in the reserves and is leaving a wife and 4 kids at home. And as you said the people that don’t have a dog in the fight are sending him back, thank God my son saw the writing on the wall and got out. He said if it hadn’t been for the CIC he would have reenlisted, he loved the Corps and what he did, but didnt agree with the fools mission they were being sent on
It is the people like Bush and Cheney who are so eager to send other peoples kids off to die that really pisses me off. Posted by: Freebird
Yeah it was pretty screwed up for Bill Clinton the draft dodger to send our boys off to Bosnia to die. And Africa (Black Hawk Down).
Sick.
And his wife will now commit our troops to die until at least 2013, according to her last wishy-washy remark (it was washy, meaning most recent).
Today’s twelve year olds will get to go to the desert for Hillary and Bill.
God how I hope you are wrong. Although I’m no Clinton supporter he did do the right thing and got our troops out of there. I know people will say he cut and ran, but I think he was smart enough to see a no win situation, when it was staring him the face.
Damn it switched nics on me
Ok I think I got it figured out now , I’m kinda of a slow learner
The WE Blog does have a bug in it that causes Nic Switching.
Just ask JR/JM/Chas/*/Sugar/Popup.
It doesnt cause nic switching if you use the same nic all the time.
If you switch, sooner or later, you get caught. But how conveeeeenient to blame it on a blog bug.
Never happened to me. I use typepad to login in.
If I get kicked out of typepad for some reason, since there is nothing in the address bar with name or url, it kicks me to another page where I copy the message I was writing, go back to the page where I was trying to post and re-login into typepad.
What I was doing was when I would post a comment and took me back to the post page, and there was nothing in the name bar I thought it was wanting the name I set up my account with (my real name) but got it figured out now.
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