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256 Comments
A poster named huh? provide a link to a website that specified a name and an email address for someone whose initials are J.M. Kansas then stomped off the blog with claims about his personal information being made public.
A question asked (numerous times), but NEVER answered, is how can Kansas be so upset about J.M. being outted when he himself has said numerous times he is not J.M.? Must be his sense of civic duty – but then again, maybe there is another reason.
Hmmmmmmm could be!!!
That would indeed invoke numerous inquiries, which should mainly be unanswered by any other than a poster named “kansas”
If indeed “kansas” is NOT “JM”, and if “JM” is indeed numerous posters using that “nic”, then the alleged “personal” information allegedly posted regarding “JM” is actually “personal” information about an individual that would be fictitious.
If indeed that is the case, how is it that “kansas” can claim that he has been harmed by allegedly
“personal” information posted about a fictitious individual, whom “kansas” has repeatedly denied being?
And the mist thickens around the mystery of the WE Blog :-)
Stay tuned for more mystery from the depths of the Blog, brought to you by KGB — Keyboard Gunk Begone – One spray twice every week removes all of the Gunk that gets in between the keys of your keyboard, no matter how hard you try to keep it from getting there!
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We now return you to regularly scheduled programming!
If you check the comments section regarding the Kansas Governor in the Opinion section of today’s WE, you will learn, POSSIBLY, the identity of the poster to the Blog who recently seems obsessed with the “corrupt” Sedgwick County Judges and SRS folks.
How interesting that his initials would turn out to be “B M” :-)(snicker, chortle)
ETHICS — NAVY INSTRUCTOR: ‘WATERBOARDING IS TORTURE,’ SHOULD BE BANNED: Testifying to the House Judiciary subcommittee yesterday, Malcom Wrightson Nance, a former Navy instructor of prisoner of war and terrorist hostage survival programs, unequivocally stated, “Waterboarding is torture, period.” Nance called the technique a “terrifying, painful, and humiliating tool” and said that it often results in subjects lying to interrogators to make the torture stop. “Contrary to popular opinion, it is not a simulation of drowning. It is drowning,” he said. The subcommittee had also called on Lt. Col. Stuart Couch, a former Guantanamo Bay prosecutor, to testify about his observations of interrogations at the prison camp, but Pentagon counsel WIlliam Haynes blocked his testimony at the last minute. Nevertheless, following the hearing, Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), the subcommittee chairman, and Rep. William Delahunt (D-MA) introduced a bill mandating that all U.S. interrogations — including those run by the CIA — conform to the Army Field Manual on Interrogation, which explicitly bans waterboarding and other forms of torture.
Please pray for my friend she was just in a car accident and is in Hutch. She will be okay, but prayers would be nice. Thanks, Ash
Before the Bush administration took office, the Army’s interrogation procedures — which were unclassified — established this simple and sensible test: No technique should be used that, if used by an enemy on an American, would be regarded as a violation of U.S. or international law.
If we could get Kristen Mehler to write a headline for this information, I’m thinking it would be something like:
Baghdad Attacks Remain 23% Higher than Acceptable
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,310456,00.html
A link to FOX news.
This betrays David as a ditto head.
I do not read Fox news links. I gave ‘em up along with comic books.
So much for wind farms!
Wind farm supporters say coal-plant decision dooms their projects
The Associated Press
WICHITA, Kan. — As many as 13 potential wind-farm projects in western Kansas could be in danger because of the state’s decision to reject two coal-fired generating plants near Holcomb, proponents of the wind farms said.New transmission lines were to be part of the $3.6 billion Sunflower Electric Power Corp. project, which was rejected by Rod Bremby, the state’s secretary of health and environment.But with the fate of that project in doubt, several western Kansas officials say their projects aren’t feasible without the additional transmission capacity.”I’d say this decision pretty much halts wind development in western Kansas,” said David Snyder, economic development director in Ness County. “We need transmission lines, and we need the c oal plants to get them.”Snyder said it’s not economically practical for transmission lines to be erected for wind alone because of the erratic nature of that power source and the expense of the lines.Building transmission lines costs about $1 million per mile.”It’s bad enough that we face shortages in power and the loss of a sizable amount of money already invested in preparing for the construction of the plants, but now we could lose our wind project, as well,” said Neal Gillespie, economic director for Stevens County in far southwest Kansas.Bremby rejected the permit for Sunflower’s coal plants because of their potential carbon dioxide emissions. Many scientists see CO2 as a major contributor to global warming.Critics also noted that much of the energy that would have been produced at the new Holcomb plants would have been exported to other states.Gillespie said he doesn’t understand why the exporting issue suddenly has become a bad thing.”I was at an economic summit in Topeka a few years back where one of the key problems we talked about was how Kansas used to be an energy exporter and now we’ve become an importer,” he said. “Out here we look at exporting as a good thing. In fact, most of western Kansas’ wind projects have been conceived as economic development with plans to export the energy.”ITC Great Plains, based in Lawrence, has received approval to add a transmission line from Spearville, near Dodge City, to Wichita, and it might build even more lines across the state.But Snyder said that line won’t do anything for the region north of Dodge City or west of Spearville, where there’s the biggest potential for wind farms.”We’ve got a lot of wind power companies interested in our potential,” Snyder said. “Then they find out that we’ve got 115 kilowatt lines with no capacity to add any power and the answer we get is, `When you get bigger lines, call us.’”Larry McCants, a Goodland bank president and leader in the Goodland Energy Park project, said wind power is a component of that project, too. And there’s an even larger wind farm proposed in Sherman County near Goodland, he said.”Without the transmission lines and the baseload capacity that would come from the Holcomb project, our wind development really won’t happen,” McCants said.———Information from: The Wichita Eagle,http://www.kansas.com
JR,
Would you prefer this one from that great bastion of conservatism, MSNBC?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21739712/
(By the way, I note on their picture caption, that appears AHEAD of the article, that they, too, attempt to color the positive data indicating a decline in bombings by preempting it with a picture of—– a bombing. I’m shocked!)
It’s bad enough that we face shortages in power
From the book above.
Power shortages or even a threat of them have been shown no where.
How’s that Iraqi govenment firming up there David?
Your point is occupation works?
Good luck. You’ll need to convince the American people that there are acceptable losses. So far they aint buying.
A link to FOX news.
This betrays David as a ditto head.
I do not read Fox news links. I gave ‘em up along with comic books.
Posted by: J R | November 12, 2007 at 09:59 AM
J R I have finally realized why you are such a numb skull. Why are you afraid of an opinion other than your own? Are you afraid that your bias will be exposed?
I and all of my friends watch all of the majors – CNN, MSNBC, FOX – and have found I can then do my own research to see who is giving me the most correct version.
Those of you JMers on the left should open your minds. It might be a real eye opener. Although knowing you as I do – it won’t happen.
Good luck. You’ll need to convince the American people that there are acceptable losses. So far they aint buying.
Posted by: J R | November 12, 2007 at 10:27 AM
You know why the public isn’t getting it J R? It is because they are like you – closed minded and afraid to let some light into their vacant minds. Heaven help us if you and your ilk get control of our country.
Elitist much, Ksgrm?
Tom could you explain that comment? I don’t see anything elitist by what I said.
Ah, JR, starting out another week, I see, with canned, unresponsive responses. If it is true that predictability provides a sense of security then we all owe you a debt of gratitude. Thanks for helping us feel secure. In reading your posts, it’s much akin to putting money in a vending maching and punching a button for the product you want. When something of Iraq is mentioned, your Iraq button is pushed and your chute spits out the same product it spit out every other time the button was punched. Occasionally, we might get the slightest variety of either caffeinated or decaf, but it’s all the same… just empty calories not good for much except making you fat and sleepy.
You know why the public isn’t getting it…? It is because they are … closed minded and afraid to let some light into their vacant minds.Posted by: ksgrm | November 12, 2007 at 10:31 AM
I don’t see anything elitist by what I said.Posted by: ksgrm | November 12, 2007 at 10:40 AM
Okay. :::shrug:::
Tom when the first comment out of someones mouth is to brand someone because their link is from Fox – you tell me who is closed minded. Elitist – I don’t think so. Realist – you bet.
Grm,
You have thrown out some bait. Would you say that your evaluation of the information given by various news sources is completely without bias?
I don’t think anyone can make that claim. I was wondering if you were trying to make that assertion?
Steven of course that wasn’t what I was saying. If given all sides of an argument an arbitor said only 2 of these are good sources that agree with me so I am throwing out this one source would that make him a good arbitor or would it make him closed minded and not worthy of the job?
If after taking into account all views he then made an informed opinion – would this not make him a much better arbitor.
I simply asked J R what about Fox news he was afraid of?
ksgrm,Do you consider Fox News fair and ubiased?
Odd, the link David provided is an AP story. Fox is just one of the networks that hosted it. It could have come from any of the major networks or newspapers.
“I had to cheat, steal, beg, borrow and lie,” Kott said. “Exxon’s happy. BP’s happy. I’ll sell my soul to the devil.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/11/AR2007111101585.html?hpid=topnews
Gotta love the way those republicans do the people’s business.
Good luck. You’ll need to convince the American people that there are acceptable losses. So far they aint buying.
Posted by: J R | November 12, 2007 at 10:27 AM
So what is the acceptable loss from the next terrorist attack on America?
I consider Fox as fair and balanced as CNN and more so that MSNBC. If you spent a day listening with an unprejudiced ear and got the same news from CNN I dare say you won’t find much difference if any at all.
I think CNN is left leaning and FOX is right leaning. Which between them makes the news somewhat accurate. If I have questions then I go to a newspaper I have faith in to gives me the unvarnished truth as they see it. I know that any news written by humans will have a bias to them.
What J R does is dismiss FOX without hearing them. I will venture to say that if asked to watch them for eight hours he could not report to us falsehoods in the way the news was presented. This would have to be something he could give us a reputable source to disprove their coverage.
That would be interesting. Talks cheap.
It’s the News that they refuse to cover, which makes our problems worse.
“Those of you JMers on the left.”
I like that. Sort of sums up a core lib group on the WEblog altogether, since most of them use that same NIC.
Is that called NIC-sharing, or multi-nic’ing?
Max,
J R can only quote from the tape. He cannot spontaneously provide an original thought.
Unless it is about Kansas (the poster not the state). He and JMer fan club started the day ragging on Kansas again. These guys are infatuated with him I guess. Why else start the first posts of the day – about another poster?
H0-Hum.
There has never been a “terrorist” attack on America, but we have been attacked by some people with pretty good reasons, after we’ve been financing some pretty awful things against them.
Odd, the link David provided is an AP story.
Posted by: Kansas
Darn it Kansas! Now you gotta go and post logical thought on the weblog.
And you wonder why they attack you personally?
I call it middle school behavior – but multi nicing would be right also.
“There has never been a “terrorist” attack on America”
So Ed, who was Timothy McVeigh and what was that all about?
There has never been a “terrorist” attack on America, but we have been attacked by some people with pretty good reasons, after we’ve been financing some pretty awful things against them.
Posted by: Ed Friedemann
Ed, what color is the sky in your world?
You’re right again as usual Amway.
Since JR said the US tolerates Zero losses from our military, I wondered if he was advocating the disbanding of the military to go along with a complete surrender by the United States to Al Queda, the Taliban, and whoever else wants to attack us.
Or perhaps, if America has a Zero tolerance for further deaths by terrorists in America, maybe JR is advocating actually attacking our enemies overseas.
He’ll have to check with Lib Control before he can respond.
Max I have this picture in my mind with all of the JMers watching their private emails to find out what to do next. Their little hump backs getting rounder and rounder as the days go by – waiting for the big guy to give the word that they can post. I wonder what dim bulb came up with this one?
Timothy McVeigh?
What country did we bomb to get back at him?
What about trees, Ed? Do you have trees in your world? I live in Kansas, and we have not so many.
Ed if you have group insurance please check to see if they have some mental health coverage. I am very serious. You have real issues and I am afraid where you will go with this.
You have advoidance issues and are delusional in applying thoughts and non-deeds to the US. You have an unrealistic view of the Palestians also.
Please seek help.
It does seem they can’t think on their own ksgrm.
I’d like to see some great debate on the issues. Rarely do you see the Libs back up their views.
If the Lib strategy in Pakistan is to do nothing, for example, then how do they propose to defend America from the Taliban who live there, who may gain control of 60 some nuclear bombs if Pakistan’s government falls?
Or I may be assuming too much. The Libs may NOT want to defend America.
Max,
I believe this election year will prove to be an eye-opener for the American people. The liberal news media (overall) has already decidedwho the democrat candidate will be – and that she will be president.
They decided the war was wrong long ago, and detest our military.
So whenever a POSITIVE happens, the media must find a NEGATIVE way of presenting the “news” (as opposed to truth). If every terrorist in Iraqfell down on their knees and surrendered: The media would find a way topresent it as a negative, the left cast doubt about the sources, then deny the facts, and finally spin it all the way around.
Kansas even provided the AP source, but the libs deny and twist the truth.I’m not so sure they even know what the truth is anymore.
But the people will see it revealed in the next year. It’s about time for another CBS Sixty Minute special on a republican.
Ksgrm, like yesterday, with Chas and JR, can you believe they have no clue how the EIC works? (or doesn’t work)
Yet, they make up stuff, or pull it from some democratunderground web site, and spew forth canned responses.
It would be very scary indeed if half of the country is this ignorant, though this may explain why Hillary is their top candidate.
“all of the JMers watching their private emails to find out what to do next.”
LOL KSgrm~!
They probably have made distribution lists, so they can quickly feed the koolaide to the brainless internetally. That may be a little strong, I believe some of the libs here are probably very intelligent people.
But somewhere along the way, their minds were opened up and they joined the distribution list for the party email.
That must be tearing the more intelligent, formerly independent thinkers apart inside. These posters probably cringe whenever they hear, “You have mail!”.
Oh no Amway, not SS again?
The Today show today had a segment questioning whether our economy was going into a recession soon.
They showed some poll showing 63% of America thinks this country is going in the wrong direction. (Whether this question had anything to do or not with the economy wasn’t clear)
They showed a clip from the Fed Reserve chairmen saying the forecast is for modest GROWTH for the next several quarters.
They had some expert economist discussing Stagflation – high unemployment and high inflation.
We have NEITHER High Unemployment nor High Inflation now, so they were simply slanting the news and HOPING for the worse.
Even the sexy news commentator expert said she didn’t expect a recession anytime soon.
So why the headline question: Is America going into a recession?
Your Foreign Policy is making this world a real safe place.
Keep telling that to yourself in the mirror.
Test, test, one, two, three! Test.Is this on?
“America is heading for a recession.”
“America is loosing the war in Iraq.”
“America hates it’s president.”
Testing, one, two, three.
V
V, great movie.
Max,
I feel a bit like Louie (was that his name?) in Casa Blanca:
“I’m shocked–SHOCKED–I say, to find there’s gambling going on here!”
I’ve pointed out three separate articles in the last few days–2 from the WE, and one earlier today from MSNBC–where the headline or narrative was painted in such a way as to preempt the facts. Someone said earlier (perhaps ksgrm?) that all human media sources have bias. We all know that. What I find so offensive is that they simply won’t own up to it, insulting us by assuming that we don’t notice it.
Keep telling that to yourself in the mirror.
Posted by: Ed Friedemann | November 12, 2007 at 12:12 PM
O.K. Ed, you are starting to scare me now. I used to post at a place called MSNBC Opinion BBS. Was sorta a regular there. They closed it down the day after 9-11.
It seems that known terrorists were communicating on the bulletin board.
I used to wonder about some of the posters at the time. But never did anything about it.
Maybe it’s time to turn you in?
Ed, guess what, the World is not a safe place.
Never has been.
And that’s why America must maintain a strong defense, and when necessary, must pro-actively chase down and destroy those who attack us, before they attack us again.
The #1 Role for the Federal Government, is to defend this country.
Would you have had America do nothing after Pearl Harbor? Nothing after 9/11?
Your approach to blame the Jews for everything that is wrong in this world Ed, just shows how extremely irrational, hateful, and deluded you are.
You really do need some mental help. Don’t know if what you have can be treated though.
I feel it coming on.
‘We are heading into a recession. You know this because the GDP is still growing, unemployment is at all time lows and the soup lines are longer that ever’.
Whoops that last one had nothing to do with the economy.
I think this might be called “talking down the economy”.
“If the Lib strategy in Pakistan is to do nothing, for example, then how do they propose to defend America from the Taliban who live there, who may gain control of 60 some nuclear bombs if Pakistan’s government falls?”
Max,
So what has the Bush/neocon approach to Pakistan been? I used to think we should invade Pakistan or send in the CIA to grab up bin Laden and bring him back. Dana Priest of the Washington Post convinced me that us doing the foregoing could destabilize Pakistan and help the radical factions there install a real madman (worse than Musharraf) who would be in control of nuclear arms.
Sometimes, accepting the bad that exists is better than intervening and making things worse. The Bush Iraq policy, anyone?
And, Max, if you are going to say invading Iraq was a good idea, I don’t think it is possible to have a reasonable discussion with. I am talking about looking at the invasion in hindsight. Was it a good idea? I cannot see how any reasonable person could say it was.
I thought they were under your bed.
I cannot see how any reasonable person could say it was.
Posted by: Steven Davis | November 12, 2007 at 12:21 PM
Don’t answer that Max! No matter how you answer, you will be an unreasonable person. :)
Ed whose bed and what are they?
David, could it be that we’ve had 2 or 3 generations now of Lib media, and they are simply indoctrinated to report a liberal bias?
Perhaps they don’t even consciously know they are doing this?
I see dead people. And they don’t know that they are dead.
The Socialists don’t even know they are Socialists!
Or it could be they do know what they are doing?
The “I didn’t know what I was doing” defense is not an acceptable excuse.
Ed, was wondering…Do Jewish owned Camels drink more water than Arab owned Camels? Do the Jewish owned Camels stick their heads through the fence of Arab land owners and eat their grass?
Kansas, the Jewish camels are always on Arab land.
None of the land belongs to the Jewish camels.
How do you tell a Jewish camel from an Arab camel?
Steven you know that is a loaded question. Did I and the majority of Americans including our congress and senate think going into Iraq was necessary? Yes.
If I had the luxury of hindsight I probably have made a different decision. That being said the prez didn’t have that luxury. He had to make the hard call one many others shared with him.
This is what I think is so wrong with what the media is doing. You hurt our troops and our image when the only coverage you put out is negative. When you try to second guess a decision made long ago to make yourself more politically attractive.
National defense isn’t about politics but about the safety of the nation. I hope that the next prez realizes that.
Here’s the problem.
Video
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/922051.html
Max,
I think there’s an element of both types, including some motivation mixed in there that really muddies the water. I think there are those who are so indoctrinated, as the WE intern seems to be, that there’s not an awareness of how tilted their scripts are. They have received only one perspective for so long that they truly believe it *is* the only perspective. They become useful idiots. The other aspect falls into the category of those who deliberately spin, or deceive, if you prefer, so their own ends. Additionally, there is in some a motivation of misplaced altruism that says, people don’t agree with this right now, but when these liberal agenda items are in place they will see how much better everything is and end up thanking me, so the spin is acceptable. It’s arrogance and power lust, intellectual or otherwise, however you look at it.
An Arab buys a camel and he proudly decides to ride it around his local pub carpark, causing a bit of a stir with the local drinkers.
“Nice camel mate,” One of the drinkers commented, “Is it male or female?”
“It’s female!” said the Arab.
“How can you tell?” said the drinker.
“Well,” the Arab explained, “on the way here today, at least twenty people yelled out,’Hey, Look at the dirty, smelly c*nt on that camel!”
I don’t know how newsrooms work, but get the impression that the assignment editor hands out stories and the editorial writer has to deliver regardless of their ideology.
I’ve heard from TV reporters who were conservative/moderates that when they worked for MSM affiliates, they had to basically do what the bosses said and no deviation was allowed.
That’s truly amazing JM. I didn’t file a police report. Nor did I file a police report last year when two of windows were broken out on my house. Nor did I file a police report when the drivers side window of my car had a brick thrown through it.
The police have better things to do than deal with petty stuff.
And why are you so concerned with my neighborhood? I don’t search for reports in your neighborhood.
Are you stalking me? Should I file a police report that someone is stalking me?
Max, your threats of terrorist attacks are nothing less than spurious!! Read the following quote, please >>>>
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.asp
Just read last nights posters. The posts about cats in NY reminded me of the recent litter of cats someone decided to give to us.
I say that because I was checking the ditch out front along the gravel road as I usually do before mowing and found a cardboard box with 3 living and 2 dead kittens. The dog found another living one in the nearby field.
I want you city folks to know that just because we live in the country, does not mean I put an ad in the paper saying I want FREE KITTENS. In fact, as a avid member of the NA Bluebird Society, I know the serious harm these wild and feral cats cause to the wildbird population. They also carry disease.
Just to let you know, I don’t even waste the gas to drive to the county seat where the only animal shelter is. There are just too many of them and they cannot even give them away. They are forced to regretfully euthanizethem. It is not an easy task at home or by the volunteers at the shelter.
But just to let you know, your efforts as “saving” the animals cost them dearly. They suffered from rain, cold nights, and hunger before we found them.
The US is being overran by wild feral cats. More than 60 million of them today! They are destroying the natural habitat and spreading disease.
Shelters put down millions each year.
Please, if you want a cat for yourself or child – be responsible. Have the cat taken care of at purchase, before you take it home.
And do NOT let Kitty out at night after dark. Keep them in your home or locked up. Even house cats should not be allowed to roam free. Their natural instinct kicks in and they kill local wildliife. They also spread disease and you should see the germs they carry home when captured in a Petrie dish!
Don’t drop them at my rural home.They are dealt with immediately.
“And that’s why America must maintain a strong defense, and when necessary, must pro-actively chase down and destroy those who attack us, before they attack us again.
The #1 Role for the Federal Government, is to defend this country.
Posted by: Max | November 12, 2007 at 12:21 PM”
Ummm….yeahIt is scary that people actually think this way.
Pretty funny to see a group of Wingnuts decrying groupthink and the power of a big media megaphone: ever heard of Rush Limbaugh or Fox News? Or, for that matter, Regnery Publishing? Or, for that matter, Clear Channel Media? Seems to me y’all do a msterful job with the whole “official narrative” / fascist thing.
And then, right on cue, the Right Wing boogeyman of a “liberal media” comes in for the usual pro-forma drubbing, and the pasty Wingnuts offer one another self-congratulatory high-fives, acting as if each of them gets to be the next John Galt.
You get the best of both worlds: you pummel the media into accepted your version of events as authoritative; and you pummel them for not reporting it accurately. Helluva trick; good for you, too bad for the rest of us.
Watching the coverage of Hillary tells us everything we need to know about which side the corporate media is on–and it ain’t Hillary’s.
And yet another quote where “kansas” seems to admit to being “JM” >>>>
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/11/open-thread–10.html#comment-89648326
Your obsession with me has gone beyond healthy curiosity JM.
May I suggest you mind your own business and just blog.
Hmmm, maybe, I can reword and use this, though.
“And that’s why brian must maintain a strong defense, and when necessary, must pro-actively chase down and destroy those who attack him, before they attack him again.
The #1 Role for brian, is to defend his home.”
If this is valid logic, them I am sure the local courts will have no problem if I do a little vigilante clean-up work, er, I mean “proactive strikes”, around town.
Why don’t you post your real name JM or JM’s, so I can take my shots at you.
Could you withstand the same amount of pressure and threats?
Hmmmm?
You know JR, we all know it is you posting with the JM, ., .., and other special characters.
I really want to avoid getting into this with you, but I have lost it this week – I guess because I too, am tired of your constant following of Kansas around and trying to flame him.
For the most part, he tries to stay out. He has asked you nicely to stopfollowing him around and stop posting your old bitter argument.
I for one, do not care what happened in the past. I’d like to read are discuss the issues of the days and opinions. But now I too have been reduced to your level.
For that I am sorry. I will try my best to refrain from your nasty response to this post, or any other. But no promises.
Nics don’t matter if you post responsibly.
However, when you use nics to carry out harassment, putting personal information on a blog and constant blog disruption, then it matters.
You always knew who to point the finger at when you wanted a scapegoat and you did it daily if not multiple times a day.
However, it appears you want more than your pound of flesh.
You’re not content with throwing barbs at me on a daily basis, you want to attack off the blog as well and post my personal information here. Then do it over and over and over.
Lord help you if I find out who the JM’s are. That’s all I will say about that.
Brian, dare I point out that the military is a government organization with a specific purpose of defense. If you want to bring it to a local level, the logical comparison would be the police department. And they do, in fact, chase down people who offend against others, and the court system, through incarceration, destroys their ability to hurt others. Armed Forces to an individual is not a valid comparison.
But if you would like to compare an anti-military/anti-defense position with the a police department, using your strategy, we could never put anyone in jail for committing a crime because that would offend both them and their families. And if their families are offended, they will begin committing crimes against all of us. Ergo, the logical course is to do away with prisons, stop offending criminals and their families, let them have what they want, and don’t arrest anyone unless you catch them in the act of an egregious crime. And if you catch them committing such a crime, be certain you have several (oh, at least 10, I’d say) different witnesses observe it, including the police, and then punish the miscreant by speaking to them sharply, but in culturally non-offense tones, understanding their difficult background, and understanding it’s probably our fault anyway.
And by the way, if someone does break into my home while I’m there, I will prosecute my own defense and the police won’t have to exercise themselves. Nor will anyone else have to worry about that person re-offending. You can thank me later.
Okay kfg-JM, go play with your chickens now.
Yeah, I know it’s you. You’ve already used a “key phrase” earlier that only you use.
Although the Capn has used that one before but not the other phrase.
Ksgrm:”If I had the luxury of hindsight I probably have made a different decision. That being said the prez didn’t have that luxury. He had to make the hard call one many others shared with him.”
This would be one place where we disagree. I believe that Bush did have intelligence estimates (not incontravertable proof, I acknowledge) that said Saddam did not have the weapons Bush/Cheney/Rice said he had. I believe the aforementioned suppressed information that disagreed with their policy aims of invading Iraq. There is not indisputable proof of my allegations, I will acknowledge. However, as suggested in the Downing Street memo, our leaders were acting with pre-conceived plans in mind:
“C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy… [written July 23, 2002]“http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/memotext.html
When we find out the truth, which may be some time from now, I think we will get answers to these questions.
“If this is valid logic, them I am sure the local courts will have no problem if I do a little vigilante clean-up work, er, I mean ‘proactive strikes’, around town.”
An excellent analogy. What was the name of the cop movie from the 70’s where a group of cops set out to pre-emptively snuff out crime sources. Exactly the kind of foreign policy we all want and need, correct?
Last Wednesday,
“Alright Kansas is back!”
Posted by: Max | November 07, 2007 at 10:15 AM
Kansas “values” replies,
“No, I’m not back….No, I’m not coming back.”
Posted by: Kansas | November 07, 2007 at 10:17 AM
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/11/open-thread-1-6.html#comment-89081088
How many posts has Kansas made since then?
The coalition of JM’s was a masterful idea to prevent you from using your stock-in-trade, the personal cheap-shot.
Actually it is a pretty stupid way of ruining the weblog and should be reported to the editor to ban all your NIC’s.
Someone above had it right – you all email each other to coordinate your attack on Kansas.
I really wasn’t supportive of him, until I saw you all gang up on him – continually.
Masterful? No. Just another variation of flaming. No brains or effort required. Just requires someone to send the email and some simpleton who is a dimwit and has time to post JM all day for them.
No one, and I mean no one on the blog has expressed support for the JMers, except the posters who are part of it.
From left or right.
I’m flattered you Libs think I’m such a threat.
I must be more powerful than I thought.
Thanks for feeding my ego.
Keep it up, I’ll rank right up there with CIA spying and “listening in on your private phone conversations” very soon.
Perhaps, I already use methods that you aren’t aware of, but should be very concerned about.
That’ll keep them thinking. :)
Posted by: David Atkins | November 12, 2007 at 01:13 PM
“…Armed Forces to an individual is not a valid comparison.”
If the argument were valid it would not matter if it was an individual, a country, or a corporation.
“…we could never put anyone in jail for committing a crime because that would offend both them and their families. And if their families are offended, they will begin committing crimes against all of us. Ergo, the logical course is to do away with prisons, stop offending criminals and their families, let them have what they want, and don’t arrest anyone unless you catch them in the act of an egregious crime. And if you catch them committing such a crime, be certain you have several (oh, at least 10, I’d say) different witnesses observe it, including the police, and then punish the miscreant by speaking to them sharply, but in culturally non-offense tones, understanding their difficult background, and understanding it’s probably our fault anyway….”
Whoa there Davy, got a little carried away on this I think.
I don’t even know what you are talking about. I never mentioned offending anyone, witnesses, doing away with prisons, or anything you rambled about.
I just pointed out that I should be allowed to carry out proactive strikes on people that I feel are a threat to my safety or that of others.
“Don’t answer that Max! No matter how you answer, you will be an unreasonable person. :)”
Well, even grm who can sometimes be less reasonable than I think she would like, implies that in retrospect she might have made a different decision. I cannot see how owning up to mistakes is a bad idea. But, we should, I guess, consider the source of the above advice.
I used to get my kickson route 66.
Today,
I get my kickswhen I NIC switch!
Signed:
JR Chas. Cosmos, Capt America, Kansas Farm Girl.
(and absolutely no one else cares)
I’m not sure, Steven, but the name of the movie I think you refer to is “Star Chamber.” It involves a group of judges ordering “private” execution warrants on criminals who were turned losed on society by bleeding heart liberal judges who would not execute justice. The point of the movie, however, you might find doesn’t match your position. The underlying theme was that, if the government allows people who have demonstrated that they are dangerous to go unchecked and unpunished, reasonable people are, themselves, forced toward illegal, immoral things for their own defense. The moral of the film, then, was see to that appropriate action was taken to begin with so that criminals could not continue to hurt people with impunity. But I don’t think that’s the point you wanted to bring out, was it?
And if we do NOT take pre-emptive action Mr Davis, what’s the downside risk?
“Don’t answer that Max! No matter how you answer, you will be an unreasonable person. :)”
Well, even grm who can sometimes be less reasonable than I think she would like, implies that in retrospect she might have made a different decision. I cannot see how owning up to mistakes is a bad idea. But, we should, I guess, consider the source of the above advice.
The underlying theme was that, if the government allows people who have demonstrated that they are dangerous to go unchecked and unpunished, reasonable people are, themselves, forced toward illegal, immoral things for their own defense.
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” Thomas Jefferson
I cannot see how owning up to mistakes is a bad idea. But, we should, I guess, consider the source of the above advice.
Posted by: Steven Davis | November 12, 2007 at 01:33 PM
A mistake in your “eyes” may not be a mistake in another persons “eyes.”
You assume that your position is the correct one. It may only be correct from your view point and ideology, nothing else.
They call those opinions, I do believe.
“And if we do NOT take pre-emptive action Mr Davis, what’s the downside risk?”
I think a more pertinent question is can we remove all threats with unlimited numbers of pre-emptive actions?
AND I’ll quote you:
“…the World is not a safe place.
“Never has been.”
Is it time to get your arguments straight, Max? It could be that is not possible, I’ll grant you.
I just pointed out that I should be allowed to carry out proactive strikes on people that I feel are a threat to my safety or that of others.
Posted by: brian
Brian,
Max’s post, to which you referred, used the word “again.” That is, he was stating that we should proactively keep people that have already hurt us from doing so a second time. Your response seemed to ignore that, and was drawn strictly from a “we’re gonna draw first blood” context, which was not what Max said.
And I did presume some things into your argument, which seem to be included in typical anti-military rhetoric. In retrospect, I agree that this was unfair. Where I mischaracterized your post, I apologize.
“You assume that your position is the correct one. It may only be correct from your view point and ideology, nothing else.
“They call those opinions, I do believe.”
Posted by: Kansas
I am very comfortable allowing others to render judgement on the validity of that observation/opinion. Thank you.
BTW, AmWay. This is not JR.(I love it.)Posted by: JM | November 12, 2007 at 01:03 PM
I’m sure you do love it.
Whomever you are, I want you to consider the following rough quote sometimes associated with Eleanor Roosevelt:
“Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people.”
Nice posts David. You correctly analyzed my posts before I could have a chance!
That’s ok, since I didn’t get back soon enough.
And Mr Davis, you didn’t answer my question, what’s the downside risk if pre-emptive strikes are not taken?
I never said pre-emptive strikes were 100% guarantees of security. There are no guarantees. But there are times when a pre-emptive strike can Reduce the risk of an attack on America.
If the Taliban for example, gain control of Pakistan and their 60 nukes, you would propose we do nothing?
|”And I did presume some things into your argument, which seem to be included in typical anti-military rhetoric. In retrospect, I agree that this was unfair. Where I mischaracterized your post, I apologize.
Posted by: David Atkins | November 12, 2007 at 01:41 PM”
Thank you, apology accepted. It would be nice if more posters were as gentlemanly.
“Max’s post, to which you referred, used the word “again.” That is, he was stating that we should proactively keep people that have already hurt us from doing so a second time. Your response seemed to ignore that, and was drawn strictly from a “we’re gonna draw first blood” context, which was not what Max said.
Posted by: David Atkins | November 12, 2007 at 01:41 PM”
You make a valid point about ‘again.’ I would have no problems with preemptive, retributive strikes.
However, in reality, we have made no preemptive strikes against forces that had previously attacked us.
In fact, our arguement for invading Iraq ‘preemptively’ was not that they had attacked us, but that they Could.
“Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people.”
Posted by: American Way | November 12, 2007 at 01:44 PM
And who is talking about “people”.
“You know JR, we all know it is you posting with the JM, ., .., and other special characters.”
Posted by: American Way | November 12, 2007 at 01:00 PM
That’s the beauty of the JM nic — respond to the post, not the “people” making the post.
‘Experts Completing Final Climate Report’http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jST9_2zww_8lfQSNa0Cjcl4nl9XAD8SSA6HG0
“The U.N.’s top climate official warned policymakers and scientists trying to hammer out a landmark report on climate change that ignoring the urgency of global warming would be “criminally irresponsible.”
Yvo de Boer’s comments came at the opening of a weeklong conference will complete a concise guide on the state of global warming and what can be done to stop the Earth from overheating. It is the fourth and last report issued this year by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, co-winner of this year’s Nobel Peace prize.”More at link.
However, in reality, we have made no preemptive strikes against forces that had previously attacked us.
Posted by: brian | November 12, 2007 at 01:56 PM
You forget about Afghanistan?
Forgot that al Queda is not Afghanistan?
and all the Taliban did is the same thing the USA would have done if Canada told us to turn over the KKK or let them come into our country to find them.
Sure are some radical Libs on this blog.
Maybe the terrorists are on this blog.
Radical Dude!
Sure are some radical Libs on this blog.
Maybe the terrorists are on this blog.
Posted by: Max | November 12, 2007 at 02:51 PM
I have investigated some of them Max. They are a wide range from being vocal to active involvement in protests, actual legislative lobbying and some involved with West Coast Liberal Media funnels.
Not all, but some are those we read about in the paper. Others are less obvious, and use multiple fronts/nics to hide their Liberal based agendas.
What is for sure, they use “outside” influences into Kansas and try to make it appear they are mainstream, when in fact they are not.
There is only one of the group I consider genuine is based here in Wichita and does work in Topeka as well. He knows who he is and I won’t mention his name, but he keeps it professional.
The others varying on their involvement have some tools they can use, but indeed through their own evaluation consider themselves more important than they actually are.
Everyone is entitled to their view and comment.
What is objectionable is when they use tactics of smear and liable to achieve their agenda.
Coming close to “crossing the line” is a place they may not wish to find themselves. They are on a tightrope of precarious ideology working with no net.
I imagine I will receive some comments about what I just wrote. I would be disappointed if I didn’t.
I know more about them than they think I do. The difference is, I keep it to myself and don’t try to gore them with the ugliness of blithering incoherent attacks here on the blog.
I make cutting and unkind remarks which is true. Maybe it comes from playing pick up basketball where there are “no holds” barred. However, once we leave the court, everything is back to normal. We trust each other and what happened on the court, stays on the court.
Some don’t appear to “get it.”
Max,
“Sure are some radical Libs on this blog.
Maybe the terrorists are on this blog.”
Yeah–makes sense, since left-wing liberals are such fans of authoritarian, fundamentalist Islam and all.
Please refrain, Max, from projecting views onto me that are nothing more than artifacts of your Right-Wing pretzel-mind tendency to group together things and person you don’t like.
“If the Taliban for example, gain control of Pakistan and their 60 nukes, you would propose we do nothing?”Posted by: Max
Because I can’t assume you understand that there are actions in between “doing nothing” and “pre-emptive combat campaigns”, we have a whole host of options available to us. Like in the case of Iran, we are currently imposing more trade sanctions on them. We have more tools in our possession than just hammers.
With Pakistan, right now, other than attempting to pursuade Musharraf to do what he promised on elections, I am not sure what other viable course is open to us.
This is an interesting editorial on how our timid diplomacy in regard to Kahn and Musharraf has not been a good idea. Bush is not the first one to make this error.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/07/AR2007110702280.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
With a population larger than Russia, crammed into area slightly bigger than France, it’s not a wonder the Pakistanis are cranky most of the time.
“Everyone is entitled to their view and comment.”
Posted by: Kansas | November 12, 2007 at 03:06 PM
But they’re NOT entitled to their own “facts” — such as LYING about what caused the levees to fail, Arctic ice recently melting because Earth’s axis is changing, etc.
If I have questions then I go to a newspaper I have faith in to gives me the unvarnished truth as they see it. I know that any news written by humans will have a bias to them.
Grm, I pray for your sake you’re not talking about the Eagle. It’s the “truth”…depending on who pays for the varnish.
I knew global warming would enter in eventually.
Say Kansas, are you sure about your research? I see most, but not all, of these Libs as local 16 to 25 yr old radical guys/gals blogging away from their Mommy’s house.
I think you’ve elevated them a little from the tar pit, and I don’t see them being much higher then ground level.
Could be a terrorist in the group though, given the un-American comments here.
Good article posted at 3:15 Steven. No good solutions for Pakistan, and plenty of blame to go around. Can’t change the past though. There is a threat that needs to be addressed in some way.
Say Kansas, are you sure about your research? I see most, but not all, of these Libs as local 16 to 25 yr old radical guys/gals blogging away from their Mommy’s house.
Posted by: Max | November 12, 2007 at 03:52 PM
The nice thing about having relatives in Kansas since the 1850s, is sooner or later you know someone that knows someone. :)
Max,
“Could be a terrorist in the group though, given the un-American comments here.”
The only thing un-American I see here, Max, is your authoritarian tendency to identify dissent with treason.
If Hillary counts as a socialist in your world, Max, it’s fair to say that in MY world, you count as a fascist.
“If the Taliban for example, gain control of Pakistan and their 60 nukes, you would propose we do nothing?”Posted by: Max
Because I can’t assume you understand that there are actions in between “doing nothing” and “pre-emptive combat campaigns”, we have a whole host of options available to us. Like in the case of Iran, we are currently imposing more trade sanctions on them. We have more tools in our possession than just hammers.
With Pakistan, right now, other than attempting to pursuade Musharraf to do what he promised on elections, I am not sure what other viable course is open to us.
This is an interesting editorial on how our timid diplomacy in regard to Kahn and Musharraf has not been a good idea. Bush is not the first one to make this error.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/07/AR2007110702280.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
CF, even if you could count, I couldn’t care less.
Max,
Typically doltish attempt on your part at a double entendre using the word ‘count.’ Think for yourself much, Max? Apparently not.
“Hillary is a socialist,” blah blah blah blah blah.
How can you respect a candidate for President of the United States, who has to hide behind her husband to defend herself?
“Don’t pick on me. I’m gonna go tell my Big Daddy on you!”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,310976,00.html
NORTH CHARLESTON, S.C. — Former President Clinton said Monday his wife can handle the criticism from her presidential rivals even though “those boys have been getting tough on her lately.”
Wow CF, I’m impressed!
You can say “double entendre”.
Classic Hillary!
She just looks at an American Flag, and it falls!
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3490293n
Max,
Wish I could say I was similarly impressed by your ability to execute a double entendre. Sadly, you seem a bit out of your depth.
In response to your non-question question, though, I wonder: how can you respect a candidate for the President of the United States who lied about working to release a convicted rapist and serial killer who went on to kill again?
http://www.arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=154e1aad-fd18-4efd-8d80-b5dab8559419
That is, unless you don’t respect Mike Huckabee? If so, my apologies.
Max he didn’t say it just typed it, probably copied off an email someone sent him.
Ain’t that the truth about Hillary. That is some evil eye she has. If you don’t believe me just ask George Stephanopolis and DeDe Myers. It sends chills down your spine to hear them talk about Hill when she is angry.
I have an idea. We let the JMers have the blog on odd days and the serious posters get it on even days. That can call each other names and then take the next day off and let us discuss issues.
When someone hates enough to get up at 3am to start gigging others posters that person/people have a serious problem. I wish I could say it was just youthful tomfoolery but these are all grown people without a full brain between the whole group.
Judge orders WH to hold e-mails.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071112/ap_on_go_pr_wh/white_house_e_mail_7
Sounds like folks from one party cant handle the heat; so they stack a bunch of non-sense garbage on candidates from the opposing party, which since they are untrue, are sort of difficult to defend the false claims! What a bunch of “united” americans we are!Ha!
One must wonder how it is that a poster known as “Kansas” could claim to know the personal information about the identity of anonymous posters to the Blog –Unless “Kansas” has managed to hack the Blog itself.
That would be the only means that “Kansas” would have of identifying anonymous Bloggers.
And all that would do is identify an email address of the Blogger.
It would seem that “Kansas” is blowing a lot of the “Southwind” that the State of Kansas is named for.
Hi American way.
Why what a moron you have made of yourself here today!
I have posted nothing under any nic on any thread since very early this morning.
Don’t apologize. I like knowing you are an idiot.
It seems I became quite the topic for a good while before my last.
Know what I see?
NOBODY was able to refute me. Wordy David waxed ad hominem. grmie tagged along like the good little toadie she is and the vacuous American way speculated on my hiding under a different nic.
Oh and Max? I KNOW you are a master at exaggeration. To the point of delusion even.
I didn’t say that Americans would tolerate NO deaths in your “war” on “terror”.
I said perhaps David and the true believers would have to continue to hope that Americans can be made to accept a certain level of sacrifice for the empire. I speculate they will NOT be so convinced.
The government in Iraq has made no progress. It is deteriorating even. We will see how long and how much Americans are willing to give to keep a cop on the porch.
booga booga ‘kansas”
he KNOWS people…
Uh huh. The meter reader, the mail man, the occasional Jehovahs witness.
Sounds like you got LOTS of enemies! Why am I not surprised?
Lot of underwear riding up these days.
No wonder there is so much shrillness in the air. :)
JR,
Why dont you try to figure out what it is that causes kansas to act this way and then stop doing it?
Just like you suggest we do about terrorism.
JR,
Please visit with Ed F. There were several helpful suggestions made to him earlier concerning therapies or drugs to help unify his alternate universe with the reality the rest of us live in. I’m thinking that, if Hillarycare is instituted, it will take much too long for you to get treated, so maybe you and Ed can seek help together now. You seem like two peas in a pod, and should get along well, I think.
Your recent assertion that no one could refute you was, well… self-refuting, since you composed no argument or thought to refute (which is one of the endearing qualities we have come not to appreciate about you). You simply bashed and bullied a few people cynically as you typically do. I’m not sure, but I think that *you* think that if you respond to someone, in your predictable style, with a non sequitur assertion, you liken it to having come up with an original, creative thought. Frankly, I haven’t seen you with one yet.
But that would have been the point of my post to you earlier. I copy and print it here again, so that you don’t have to scroll up to find it:__________________
Ah, JR, starting out another week, I see, with canned, unresponsive responses. If it is true that predictability provides a sense of security then we all owe you a debt of gratitude. Thanks for helping us feel secure. In reading your posts, it’s much akin to putting money in a vending machine and punching a button for the product you want. When something of Iraq is mentioned, your Iraq button is pushed and your chute spits out the same product it spit out every other time the button was punched. Occasionally, we might get the slightest variety of either caffeinated or decaf, but it’s all the same… just empty calories not good for much except making you fat and sleepy.
Posted by: David Atkins | November 12, 2007 at 10:42 AM
Nathan,
Fighting terrorism should not be about
” I had a bad dream and the guy up the street was doing some Evil things in it. So until someone does some thing about him we should all be scared”
The facts say terrorism come from place like Saudi and terrorist hide in places like Pakistan,But go with your dream it seem to be working so well.
Nathan,
Kansas posts lies and ad hominem attacks because the facts don’t support his agendas.
The problem is his own responsibility.
Cosmos,
You are no better.
Nathan,
I’ve got the facts on my side.
Do get over yourself davy. You were the gay man who “got better” weren’t you?
If you can conquer THAT. I am sure you can come to grasp with your considerable opinion of yourself. I do not know if there are camps for that.
Nathan? When you post here, would you like to think it is to a credible forum. I would. Otherwise why bother.
Long story short, your buddy “kansas” is one real ill individual. I should re post his original melt down. It was positively frightening to watch a person type through the process of losing their mind.
Since then, he quite predictably does so again and again. Only to change his nic and start the whole proces over. Along the way he manages to threaten not just other posters (breaking into offices, threatening violence, threatening to get people banned etc) but the blog itself (causing threads to be shut down, threatening blog terror, posting that he will get the whole blog shut down etc.)
Well, some of us long ago had enough of it.
As to your comparison to terror.
If mr. “kansas” is blocked or banned from this forum, he is just about zero concern to me. He is entitled to be a kook. Live and let live.
Similar with terrorists. If our presence in their lands or interference in their society irks them to the point of violence? Why we just keep them outta here and over there. They are about zero threat. That and maybe mitigate some of our foreign policy.
Jr
They’re here. And more come everyday, crossing the border with Mexicans. Some of them got caught trying to buy weapons to attack a military base out east someplace a couple weeks ago.
You can pretend they’re not here, or you can “blame america” but that doesnt change the facts. And closing your eyes won’t make them go away. Deal with it.
Ooowee that JR fella shore likes to get his nose bloodied! A glutton for punishment to beat all Ive ever seen!
Heckler.
I quite regularly argue for closing the border.
That we do not do so and are told that “we have to fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here” is moronic.
They’re here? Ok. Maybe they are. Given how easy it really is.
Did operations in Iraq do anything to stop them? Will they?
Oh and Max? I KNOW you are a master at exaggeration. To the point of delusion even.
I didn’t say that Americans would tolerate NO deaths in your “war” on “terror”.
Posted by: J R | November 12, 2007 at 06:33 PM
—————————————————————-
Yes JR, you didn’t Say it, but here’s what you Wrote.
Oh, and this isn’t just MY war on terror. Only if you are not an American JR, it’s your war too. Americans are dying right now, and your Democrats in Congress have supported this American war every step of the way.
——————————————————————
Good luck. You’ll need to convince the American people that there are acceptable losses. So far they aint buying.
Posted by: J R | November 12, 2007 at 10:27 AM
You’ll need to convince the American people that there are acceptable losses. What I wrote.
Since JR said the US tolerates Zero losses from our military, Part of what you wrote Max.
I didn’t say the US tolerates Zero losses from our military!
I wasn’t even talking exclusively about the military. I COULD have been more clear.
I said that you stay the course folks would have to sell the American people on accetable losses not no losses at all.
And I meant to imply losses in not just lives but resources etc.
Ya reacted Max. You DO that.
Next time read a little more careful?
JR, just make sure you read David’s post at 7:11.
It was perfect.
Hope you enjoyed it too.
Some great photos of a wild polar bear,
http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/play/audiogallery/soundseen.shtml
J R busts Max.
Max changes subject.
Ah your wordy new poster don’t impress me much Max. Guy puffed up that big sooner or later is gonna blow up. Or climb down. Or storm off in a self righteous huff.
I’ve seen it before.
sour grapes can be tasty if you make a steady diet of them. :)
And that’s my hour and some change.
I had news from Julie. Her hubby continues to hold his own. He has an awful long road ahead though. She thanks all again for their kind thoughts.
JR, you couldn’t bust anybody without borrowing someone else’s brain.
I reposted what you posted and you can’t hide from that no matter how many excuses you pull out of your hat.
Ksgrm, you were right. The 3 am posters are just waking up today.
It must be tough being on the public dole and not having to work for a living. They must get tired of holding their hand out all day.
My pet hamster is recovering nicely. Got a brutal banging from her brothers, but she will be fine now.
Hillary is stumbling, but Bill will pick her up:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071113/pl_afp/usvote2008clinton;_ylt=AhRUkYetKwxmuX4BufW7Ides0NUE
Hillary Clinton’s commanding lead starts to slip 19 minutes agoWASHINGTON (AFP) – Presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton’s lead is shrinking among Democratic contenders for the White House after a series of miscues and stepped-up attacks by her rivals.
Her air of invincibility took a hit this week amid reports that her staffers had planted audience questions, combined with fresh criticism by Democrats who accused her of shifting with the political winds during a presidential debate two weeks ago.
Although the former first lady still leads the pack of Democratic contenders for the White House, polls released Monday suggested that her campaign was losing steam.
Clinton had for months commanded a 30-point advantage over her closest competitor, Illinois Senator Barack Obama, but Monday saw that lead slip to 19 percent, according to the CNN/Opinion Research Corporation.
The poll, surveying 467 Democrats or independent voters likely to pick a Democrat for the White House, showed 44 percent would choose Clinton while 25 percent would vote for Obama.
The figures were in stark contrast to the same poll a month earlier which showed Clinton garnering 51 percent of likely voters and holding a 30-point lead over Obama.
“piqued” to soon?
“I wish I could say it was just youthful tomfoolery but these are all grown people without a full brain between the whole group.”Posted by: ksgrm
That was an unusually snide comment from grm – you can do snide, but this was below you. It is a sweeping generalization not based on fact, but impression, which is for everyone a potential source of embarrassing error.
You can put jelly on a crap sandwich Steven Davis, doesn’t change the fact it is still crap.
“Hillary Clinton’s commanding lead starts to slip 19 minutes ago”
Posted by Max
Those polls sure are getting precise about the “when”…
Steven if indeed this JM poster is a composite of several posters then I will stand by my statement. I hope you aren’t in that gang. Not one intelligent post the entire day. Just constant badgering of Kansas – deserved or not it is endless and round the clock.
I have always figured you for an independent thinker. Not sure why you feel the need to defend this type of behavior.
“I have always figured you for an independent thinker. Not sure why you feel the need to defend this type of behavior.”
Sorry, I did not think I was defending any behavior, other than pointing out what I believe is your thinking error evidenced by you saying all posters you don’t like are all the same. If you are willing to be honest, you would have to consider that statement is likely not true.
What the heck. I’m agreeing with conservatives a LOT today.
And no I didn’t change ships. I’m just very very very upset at what is happening here.
To elaborate, I don’t consider yourself (grm), Max, Kansas, American Way, fleetwood, Goldnut, SOB, David Atkins, to be all the same. You obviously are not.
And P-mom, what are you talking about?
ksgrm
Regarding your earlier comments as to Fox noise.
I monitor Fox “news” alot.
Remember when you railed against Al Gore’s documentary and then admitted you had not even seen it? I try to avoid getting myself caught in my own box like that.
HONESTLY. I have to wonder about the self dignity of anyone who respects Fox news. The blaring music bites, the whoosh whoosh noises and flashing graphics. Fox news is playing to the VERY short attention span. I would be embarrassed to admit I watch it except to demonstrate that I do.
Just a few? During the whole Larry Craig thing? FOX was lucky to have the whole Brittney Spears thing. CNN Larry Craig. Fox Brittney Spears.
Terri Schiavo. Sad that. Fox turned it into a vicarious experience. The network of protecting already dead women.
So you see, my opinion of Fox news is well founded.
Steven I was talking about JM – now if that is more than one person so be it. I would have no way of knowing that now would I? If they/he/she are doing something juvenile like that in order to harrass Kansas all day and night then I just can’t give them credit for a whole lot of brains. I call it the way I see it.
JR I do remember the Al Gore movie. I watched it for you and you were supposed to read a book for me which you didn’t. As far as Fox News, the news itself and not the people pieces, I just can’t see much difference. If you prefer another channel thats fine – but to tell David his link is bad because it is Fox is short sighted at best.
JR interesting that you mention Terry Shavio. Her brother was on the radio this weekend. The story he tells is very different that what was presented to the public.
She was on no life support. Only water and the food tubes. She breathed on her own. There was over $1million dollars in a fund for her rehabilitation. None of this money was spent on her. Her family asked the husband to let them take care of her and he could then marry his companion and the mother of his two children. He refused to do this. The money was a big issue.
Now… I don’t know but if this were my sister I would be very upset if he wanted to starve her to death while also depriving her of water. If you remember her lips cracked and bled days before she finally died from starvation.
I didn’t follow it closely when it was going on but if this is true I don’t blame the family for intervening.
Just MOHO.
Murdock in good business fashion cuts expenses to the bone, and hypes the attractiveness of his business endeavor. Hence, Fox appeals to unquestioning right leaning types, but does so pretty cheaply.
The above has been a winning proposition for Murdock. The success has been the result of a good business sense instead of news reporting integrity. Two different things.
To expect the Fox News to be anything other than what it is, is short-sighted, I think.
Steven it is easy to paint the Fox news channel in this way quiet another to give examples of something wrongly presented.
Give me examples. Maybe I am being short sighted. I see balance and many others must share my opinion because they draw the largest audience.
I can’t give you specific examples because I don’t subscribe to cable. I am making my judgements about Murdock based on his purchasing of the Wall Street Journal and the reporting on likely changes that will occur there.
Fox 24 that I can access has attractive programs, but more commercials than network TV.
Murdock will likely cut many of the positions in the news reporting part of the WSJ; a news organization that has world wide respect.
The above stories have been covered by NPR. As a modest example of my point, check this out:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6514230
Just like any other discussion about how “biased” fox news is…
Small on facts and big on talk
In short, the influence of Murdock on news has amounted to the Wal-Martization of news. Not a good thing, in my humble opinion.
Thank you Nathan for you unbiased opinion. Choke…
No problem Steven.
I sure brain-dead posts are “no problem” to you, Mr. Junior Price.
Night all. Not much happening here.
I thought we had moved past your name calling.
What next, should I be expecting you to follow me around with the random post saying mean and hateful things like you used to?
how about my favorite example?
From the banners the news networks post.
CNN “Bush down in polls”
Fox noise “BUSH UP IN POLLS!!”
I am sorry you did not follow the Schiavo case ksgrm. IF you had, you would know that an autopsy revealed that most of her brain had liquefied during her many years kept functionally “alive” because some of her family could not let go.
Her husband felt a deeper responsibility to his wife.
Name your book again. Watching Gore’s film cost you what?
The book you asked me to read was not available at the library and priced out of range I could afford to spend to indulge you. This may have changed.
Nathan
Please name for me ONE poster on my side of thinking that compares even remotely with the antics of “kansas”
13 examples of fox news horrible conservative agenda, also Hillary did not take my guns away today.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=A3BD2524FE99BD4D
ksgrm,
You want examples re Fox News? 2,111 of them,
http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/outlets/foxnewschannel?f=h_hot
JR,
What antics?
I am still not sure how you guys know it is he who is doing all those things.
How do you know?
I don’t know if any of this is in what cosmos linked to.
I’ll give you ANOTHER for instance.
FOX “news” has
HannityO’ReillyHumeThat ranting little bean counter whose name escapes me just now.
Any similarly biased shows on CNN?
Oh I give you Olberman on MSNBC.
But THEY also have Tucker Carlson.
CNN has the absolute LOON Glenn Beck.
CNN used to allow the con nut job Neal Boortz to guest host.
CNN gave that troll Robert Novak a forum before there WAS a Fox news.
Nathan must feel terribly self-important, to think that any poster would follow him around the Blog. My goodness, with that size ego, is there room left for any real thinking?
Nathan
I think it has been conclusively proved that “kansas”= “JM”
Even if you reject that, and all that attends to it, you cannot be unaware of “kansas” and his threats.
What was it he said? He’d employ all his tools to turn the WE Blog into blog hell?
And his claim that his car was damaged. What of that?
Take a nickels worth of free advice Nathan. “kansas” is damaged goods and I DON’T mean his disability.
JR,
You forgot that Hannity is paired with Colmes.
You forgot that O’Reilly is not conservative.
JR,
The only posting I have seen from JM have been the most recent ones made by those who did far more to distrupt the blog than I have ever seen Kansas do.
Did Kansas posting as JM do something bad?
Who cares? I have not seen JM post since forever. The only ones who keep dragging it up are you and others who kept constantly harrassing Kansas with it.
I don’t agree with his threats, but I give him credit for having far more patience dealing with you and others than I would.
You keep poking and poking and poking him and then when he reacts you act surprised.
Another good site for monitoring the Faux Noise Channel’s bias:
http://www.newshounds.us/
Colmes is a little dog for Hannity to kick around. Pair Hannity with a REAL liberal with a spine and you MIGHT have a case.
O’Reilly not conservative?
He WROTE “Culture Warrior”!
I must understand conservativism better than conservatives.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/11/12/18_arrested_in_antiwar_protest_by_veterans
See a picture of vets getting arrested on Veterans’ Day.
More than a dozen members of an antiwar veterans group were arrested yesterday as they protested the exclusion of their message from Boston’s Veterans Day parade.
more stories like thisMembers of Veterans for Peace lined up in front of a podium at City Hall Plaza holding antiwar placards, as color guards from Massachusetts military units and JROTC bands from across the state filed into Government Center for a ceremony, sponsored by the American Legion, to honor veterans after the parade. Some protesters wore gags, which they later said symbolized the fact that, while they were permitted to march in the parade, they were prevented from carrying signs opposing the war in Iraq.
“We were exercising our First Amendment rights,” said Winston Warfield of Dorchester, a member of the group. “The First Amendment protects free speech, even when you don’t agree with what’s being said.”
When Boston police asked the demonstrators to move from the front of the podium so that the Veterans Day services could continue, they refused. As the Boston Firemen’s Band played The Marine Hymn, several protesters were placed in plastic handcuffs and led away.
*****
You can say whatever you want to in America, as long as it agrees with the President and the other CONs.
JR,
You are so far left that Hilary probably looks conservative to you.
I have to confess to not being here when it happened Nathan.
Was “kansas” goaded into threatening to break into someones office?
IF this forum caused his tires to be slashed, as he claims, why is there no evidence from him?
He repeatedly says he is leaving. Only he doesn’t.
He pleads against his treatment here. I can go get you proof that he promised to go away only if I, cosmos, CapnAmerica,Steven Davis, and kfg would go away too.
Your last has little to do with what we WERE talking about Nathan.
Dodge much?
CapnAmerica,
They were arrested after they refused to unblock the podium.
Freedom of Speech doesn’t include blocking other peoples freedom of speech.
You post the most absurd example to try to prove a point.
JR,
Who cares? You and others spend at least 20 times as much posting going after Kansas than you even accuse him of.
You and others are a far bigger nuisance than I have ever seen kansas to be.
If you’re looking for Nathan, Max and Ksgrm to repudiate Kansas, you might as well forget it, JR.
They only see the splinter of what the libs do as bad. The LOG of what Kansas does is nothing to them.
I think our job is done regarding the troll. He has been shown for what he is beyond any reasonable shadow of a doubt: a lying liar who lies.
Time to relegate him to where he belongs–the dustbin of WEBlog history.
He just doesn’t matter anymore.
Walk on by.
You keep changing subjects Nathan.
Why?
I can name several posters who do little more than cause trouble and post ad hominem attacks.
If you are going to say Kansas is a problem then so are they and so are you.
Just a lil’ poem for the Klubbin Kansas Klub:
Daily in his cage I pokemy sharp stick, and claim it all a jokebut when his head does baleful rearI blame him for his irate sneer.
Ooowee I worked on that a long time!
he’s all yours Nathan. “Kansas” JM et all.And he has a big fat rich history here.
Embrace him if you choose. I know your side of things is weakly and poorly represented here and you need all the help you can get.
You might be mindful. You might want to err and listen to your “enemies” cause I don’t think you will be able to trust your friend. I sure hope you don’t put yourself in the place of answering for him.
In fact, none of the CON posters can really argue. Probably GMC is the best of them, but even he doesn’t so much argue his point as pronouces it.
Max, Nathan, Ksgrm are just kind of . . . how do I say this diplomatically . . . dumb.
Not really worth arguing against.
AGAIN Nathan is invited to provide examples.
I have plenty: )
JR,
Look at CapnAmerica’s post above yours for an example.
CapnAmerica, Cosmos, Apophis, KFG, Steven, and probably a couple of others I can’t think of right now are no better than Kansas.
They routinely turn threads into name calling and add little to the conversation.
I am not defending Kansas. I have no idea if he does the things you accuse him of or not.
I only know what I see.
What I see is a bunch of hypocrites who spend more time trashing Kansas and others than they accuse him of doing.
Nathan
Just a few posts ago you lumped me into a group.
Is your last an “unlumping”?
Your list is flawed. Remember that the poster you defend has done a lot to change this forum.
The only among your examples I will grant you is Apophis. And I HAVE called him on it.
Nathan,
If someone posted using your dad’s name, and redirected Typekey to make it look almost identical to your dad’s posts, would you defend that person???
Kansas made threats on the thread below, and then there were false posts using Capn’s and my nics, redirected via Typekey. The editors deleted Kansas’ threats, and the false Typekey posts.http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/10/blame-the-messe.html
JR,
You do tend to turn alot of topics into personal attacks or try to make them personal.
In probably half of our exchanges since you have been back you have tried to make the discussion about characterizing me rather than actually discussing the topic.
Yeah, you are on my list.
Nathan, you argued that those Veterans in Boston were attempting to block the free speech of the Podium from which they were arrested, and that it was OK to do that (arrest them).
So, why is it not OK to arrest the protestors at Tiller’s Clinic, who constantly attempt to block women from not only exercising their freedom of speech, but exercise a LEGAL right?
One of my first posts when I got back here defended Hank, Nathan. Some confusion about a url mistakenly pornographic.
Can you claim the same for a liberal poster unfairly attacked?
“kansas” used the racial slur “heeb” in referring to a poster who he eventually drove away.
Where were you?
Cosmos,
I wouldn’t defend that person.
How do you know it was Kansas?
You are one of the biggest problems too. You of all people will sit there and follow Kansas around from thread to thread calling him a liar.
When he finally reacts you want to look innocent?
I don’t think so. You have tried to do the same thing to me as well.
There is a reason why I don’t debate with you anymore.
Hey .,
Post under your real nic and I will respond.
Well Nathan if you put ME on a list I have to put you on one too.
Nice isn’t it?
And all over a poster with a sad excuse for a life (”kansas”) who gets his jollies being a pain.
Great company ya got there Nathan.
I am going to show you fair Nathan.
You are outnumbered just now.
I am gonna shut up and sit back and watch you defend “kansas”.
But Nathan, it’s that time of month. A Nic isnt a requirement for posting an argument here. That’s what Kansas always says.
SO, I repeat >>>
Nathan, you argued that those Veterans in Boston were attempting to block the free speech of the Podium from which they were arrested, and that it was OK to do that (arrest them).
So, why is it not OK to arrest the protestors at Tiller’s Clinic, who constantly attempt to block women from not only exercising their freedom of speech, but exercise a LEGAL right?
Posted by: . | November 12, 2007 at 11:31 PM
One last for the next 15 minutes.
Nathan? For whatever reason, “kansas” is always here. I think he is watching now. I think he posted just a bit ago.
I don’t know a “comment tator” do you?
Do you enjoy taking the fire for him?
My last for a bit.
.,
If you knew anything at all you would know that the protestors at Tillers clinic do not block women from entering.
They are simply protesting.
When they do block the entrance they are arrested.
You might try looking up some facts to, there is a federal law prohibiting anyone from blocking access to a clinic:
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/split/facestat.htm
You have responded to “^^” before… That isnt much of a Nic either. I dont think you have a reasonable response, since the situations I reference are extremely similar in nature.
It’s just that in one situation, those against the government get arrested. In the other, those in support of the government do not get arrested.
Sad state of affairs. You ever watch “V For Vendetta” on Cable TV Movie Channels? If not, you should.
Nathan, their protests are an attempt to block women from entering the Clinic. I have seen them. They are not arrested. The Veterans in Boston werent blocking anybody either. Just protesting.
JR,
I am not taking fire for him. I am not defending him.
I am pointing out that many other posters are just as bad and have no place to talk.
I could care less if the comment tater is Kansas or not.
I simply ignore it.
You on the other hand would rather drag out talking about it for 50 posts.
J R — Comment Tator is a Blog Thug, posting in defense of “Kansas”
To “kansas” I know you are here you always are.
Will you let Nathan twist in the wind?
.,
Give me some credibile exapmle to back up your claim.
I can give you my own anecdotal evidence of people I know who were arressted for blocking the entrance.
I know many girls who go down there to protest. They stand on the street with their signs and do not block access to the clinic.
Those veterans did. The article you posted said they did.
You have no clue what you are talking about.
JR,
I am not twisting in the wind.
.,
Show me where a complaint has been filed against the protestors who were actually blocking access to the clinic and the Police didn’t arrest them?
It wouldn’t happen.
If it did the news would be all over it in a heart beat.
Nathan, Ummmm I didnt posts an article??
The protestors accost the women who are entering the Clinic, protesting their actions, and attempting to get them to go away.
If that isnt attempting to block their entrance, then what is?
So, I guess they are only protesting to attempt to block clients from entering the Clinic.
It is still something for which they *should* be arrested.
The Veterans in Boston werent blocking anybody either. Just protesting.
Posted by: . | November 12, 2007 at 11:46 PM
Well, you were sure talking like you did.
My bad. You still got the point.
.,
You have just been served. Any other topic you would like to have your rear end handed to you on?
“kansas”? JM? I could post your real name?
I KNOW Nathan’s service. I was at the going away party for his second tour to Iraq.
As far I know, I was the first this forum aside from his Dad to welcome him back from it.
And YOUR service “kansas” JM I could post your real name here? Would you care to lie about it some more?
Nathan,
Are you suggesting that Kansas threatened to shut this blog down, blamed Capn, me, and others for his doing it — and then someone else made the false posts using our nics?
It’s possible, but doesn’t seem likely. Please explain why you think it happened that way.
Also, the Typekey profile of this false post,
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_25.html#comment-70812508
and next 2 posts = Kansas’ “Republikhan” (put mouse pointer over nic).
Nathan, If the protestors at Tiller’s clinic arent blocking anybody, then neither were the Veterans in Boston. That was my point, since you blatantly missed it, and now try to turn it around to meet your own position.
15 minutes up Nathan. Actually it was 20 or so.
“kansas” seems to have forsaken you.
Do you NOT get it? An appeal is being made to you because YOU are respected. You are defending someone not worthy of that.
.,
You base your point on no truth at all.
There was an article which said the vets were blocking the podium. The police asked them to move. They refused. They were arressted.
Then you have no proof, no examples, no article to show abortion protestors doing the same thing.
You have no point.
I have already shown you that it is against federal law to block access to a clinic.
Give me an example of abortion protestors doing the same thing these vets were doing and not getting arrested?
Then you will have a point.
Well, folks, I have a very early appointment in the morning. Time for bed here.
Good night; Good luck; and God bless; whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings All!!
Special Blessings to Julie and MM
JR,
I AM NOT DEFENDING KANSAS.
LOL!
It was Chas. Figured. Was about his typical debate style where you could show him the truth and he would still argue against it.
When dot guy makes those thrillin postsold JR vanishes like a ghostbut when nic JR reappearsold dot boy gets to there from here
Must be co-incidence.
(Im killin myself with these licks!)
Comment Tater,
Chas gave himself away at the end. He was the . poster.
In another time Nathan, I was at the “Summer of Mercy”
I was not arrested. Given you have just my word for that. I hope you respect it more than the poster you defend respects you.
It is also against the Law to deprive somebody of Free Speech, which is what happened to those Veterans. They were arrested for trying to exercise their right to Free Speech. How is that right??
Can the police arrest you for exercising a Constitutional Freedom?
What?? Is Chas. the only Blogger who can invoke God’s Blessing here?
Wow, that must be a powerful blogger, Nathan!
I have met Chas. briefly. I do not know him. Most certainly I am not him. I’ll not answer for him.
THIS is what “kansas” and I could post his name here has given us.
JR,
That might be true. But there is documented evidence of thousands of Pro-Life protestors who were arressted during the summer of mercy.
Somehow, Nathan, I dont think “that time of month” would effect Chas. Read upthread for that reference, please. LOL
Sorry .
The fact that you are so frantically trying to say you are not Chas is only further convincing me that you are Chas.
Probably arrested for breaking some law other than protesting. Like blocking traffic, or other things.
Nathan, I have only made two comments about your accusation of who I might be.
I hardly characterize that as frantic.
But, if I am not a male, then how can I be Chas.?
Posted by: . | November 13, 2007 at 12:14 AM
hi sugar! :)
Can’t figure out how to post as “blank?”
ahhh :(
I guess you must disagree with “Kansas” – namely that a Nic is not a basis for posting on the Blog. He says it makes no difference who the Bloggers are, as long as they stick with the topic of conversation, just like I was attempting to do, until you decided to take a detour.
Sorry, try again!
G’nite everybody!
We disagree Nathan on almost everything.
I have never been dishonest with you and have afforded you much. More than you have me.
I was complicit once in confusing you and your dad. I had good reason for doing so but I was wrong and I said so. I learned from that. “kansas” lives on that and the poison is spreading to both sides.
I’ll leave you with that. That and that what some here do TRIES to make this forum honest. Even if they have to be dsihonest to do so.
Kansas, has “sugar” ever posted as to being female or male? I dont recall ever seeing any such thing.
Sorry, you lose again!
Sweet dreams, now!
Or maybe I won’t leave.
Your late “kansas”
Be worthy of worthier than you who have stood up for you.
All right kids, turn out the lights and go to bed!
You been messing around too long now.
Hurry up before you get a whipping!
I was complicit once in confusing you and your dad. I had good reason for doing so but I was wrong and I said so. I learned from that. “kansas” lives on that and the poison is spreading to both sides.Posted by: J R | November 13, 2007 at 12:22 AM
I’ve also said I was wrong for posting J M Walker over my typepad entry and what I said about Tom.
I apologized for both things and was punished for it.
But was that enough for you Libs?No.
So I apologized again.
What that enough for you Libs?
So I apologized again.
But even that wasn’t enough.
So what do you Libs do, you bring it up over and over and over. Rehash it, beat it to death, post it, repost it and repost your reposts.
You don’t want to hear anything from me at all do you?
Apologies don’t work, agreeing with the Capn if I ever post under another nic, to be outed doesn’t work. Being reasonable doesn’t work. Asking you to “just blog” doesn’t work.
So, it comes to a point where I just think to myself, “You know these guys are just assholes, no matter what I say or do, they are going to keep on doing it.”
So there’s your answer Capn, J R, cosmos, kfg and whomever.
The only ones making the situation worse now are you, “the chump gang.”
You (all of you) refuse to accept multiple apologies, you refuse to honor agreements and you refuse to just blog and move on.
You are your own worst enemies.
That’s OK Bill.
Don’t think it’s any big deal. Like I really care!
All you have to do is play the part, and help me get elected President.
Deal?
Nathan,
If I posted that you (Nathan) opposed concealed carry, were Pro-choice re abortion, and that you “hate the U.S.”, would you label me an honest person? And defend my posting here?
If you’re looking for Nathan, Max and Ksgrm to repudiate Kansas, you might as well forget it, JR.
They only see the splinter of what the libs do as bad. The LOG of what Kansas does is nothing to them.
I think our job is done regarding the troll. He has been shown for what he is beyond any reasonable shadow of a doubt: a lying liar who lies.
Time to relegate him to where he belongs–the dustbin of WEBlog history.
He just doesn’t matter anymore.
Walk on by.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | November 12, 2007 at 11:15 PM
Captain issuing his orders to his followers: Get off the Kansas kick. Maybe he means to stop the multi-nic JM from wasting space now.
Good fer him.
Wow! Another night of JR and crew talking about, (drum roll),,,get excited (horns blowing),,,,,their obsessive and fanatical,,,,following of (wait for it),……,
Kansas!