“We don’t find any evidence that the gifted kids are harmed, but they are certainly right, the gifted advocates, if they claim there is no evidence that No Child Left Behind is helping the gifted,†said Chicago economist Derek Neal. Teachers are expected to prepare three versions of the same lesson — one for below average, one for average and one for above average. Parents of gifted children worry that, under pressure, teachers are focusing energy on the middle and bottom groups of students, not giving the above-average students the opportunity to excel.
Posted by Kristin Mehler
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33 Comments
Gifted children don’t need help from the teachers. It is the regular children that need the most help. And most “gifted” students are in AB Honours courses and magnet schools just for such kids anyway.
Gifted kids are more at risk for dropping out of high school than regular ed kids.
AP/IB courses are being dropped across the country. In Kansas, parents of gifted kids are being pushed to get the kids off their IEP – the only legal recourse such parents/kids have.
Magnet schools? Only for kids in KC and Wichita . . . or do the gifted kids in the rest of the state not deserve any help?
Gifted kids are sick and tired of the pablum being offered under the guise of “gotta meet NCLB.” Some parents are wising up and pulling their gifted kids from the state assessments. Why should the districts benefit from their test scores when the districts won’t provide free, appropriate coursework for those kids?
I am a mother of two gifted elementary children. However, I am not happy with their options. If they stay in a normal classroom, they do only learn that they do not have to apply themselves to things. They learn that they don’t have to try. Then when they hit something they can’t teach themselves, they think they just can’t learn it, because no one has ever taught them how to learn.The other option is the gifted program, which takes away recess and nonintellectual programs. A childhood should have playtime with social activities in order to adjust with society. I will not let the school take away their childhood.Magnet schools are a joke. They are no better than a traditional school. Magnet schools now have to accept all kids, so teachers face the same issues. Children can flunk a grade, take summer school, and continue on at a magnet school. There are no real options for a healthy development for gifted children. I have to provide the learning and enrichment activities at home. I pay for a school, but I have to teach them.
We are very fortunate in Wichita to have the Catholic School system that we have. Kid’s graduating from… let’s say Bishop Carol who go to college (they almost all do) find themselves repeating the same work they did in Jr High until they are upper classmen.
If it’s at all possible to send your child to a Catholic school here, do it! I know both wealthy people, as well as some folks who are scraping by who manage it. A friend of mine uses his tax return every year.
The Catholic schools are well funded here, they will let your family attend as long as you essentially tith 10% of your income, which can be written off of your taxes.
Their needs to be a school voucher program, to further assist people who want their child to be educated in a better environment than the public schools offer!
They need gifted programs secondary to kids who need help.
But they are needed. If they’re really doing so well, let them bump up a grade or two.
I substituted for a few “gifted” classes as a substitute teacher and it was a real joy to be in class with kids who were eager to learn. Every new thing I brought up was challenged, critiqued and queried upon.
It was quite refreshing.
I guess this is more “socialism” (big eye roll) and dumbing down to make us all alike?
Gifted kids who are bored cause waaaaay more trouble than average bears struggling to get by.
And we wonder why the US is having a shortage of scientists, math professionals, and engineers?
I guess majority ALWAYS rules here, no matter the tyranny of the majority.
I know quite a few gifted kids are being home schooled. Their parents arent always gifted, but truely gifted kids need direction and encouragement to learn, not information.
You dont have to be “smarter” than the gifted to teach them. Just have a willingness not to PUNISH them for being gifted, and a desire to help and direct their learning, not to force feed them.
They need gifted programs secondary to kids who need help.
But they are needed. If they’re really doing so well, let them bump up a grade or two.
Posted by: political_mom | November 30, 2007 at 08:26 AM
———–
This is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Gifted kids are generally significantly adept at reading, math, creative problem solving… but they’re also generally emotionally and socially equal to other kids the same age. Simply “bumping them up a grade or two” creates more problems than it solves.
If our education system doesn’t foster excellence from the brightest of the bright – how can we expect to compete globally with those contries that do?
KSGolf – agreed. We need to foster those who we will need to be tomorrow’s leaders. We cannot homogenize to standardized mediocrity.
“They need gifted programs secondary to kids who need help.
But they are needed. If they’re really doing so well, let them bump up a grade or two.”
Doesn’t work, and I’m proof of concept. I skipped a grade when I was younger, was in IEP my whole schooling, (you should see the file!) but the thing is, kids are ruthless, and you can advance kids intellectually, but not socially and physically. You put a kid who is a year younger in with kids who are intellectually average, and those kids want to know why. Brawn beats brains, at least on the playground and in the hallways. I’m sure you’d want your ten-year-old child in the locker room with high school seniors, having to compete with them as peers in areas where they are not fully physically developed (sports, vocal music, band, phys. ed.); having to deal with the lack of socialization with not just intellectual peers but cohorts. Kids need to be kids in order to have healthy and functional social development, not just bump them up grades and expect them to fulfill the “young adult” role that much faster.
The trouble is, teachers didn’t like having to deal with me, the administration didn’t like having to contend with fending off older students who wanted to prove their superiority, and quite honestly it was a big mess and if I had it to do over, I would have stayed in my grade level.
The real problem is, under our mandatory education program, we have a responsibility to educate the “lowest common denominator.” In this way, we may serve this LCD, but we fail the average student just as much as we fail the gifted student. It is just by a wider, more perceptible margin that we fail the gifted student, and why it raises eyebrows. We teach to the level of young 62 IQ Bubba Joe Junior, with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, or we have to contend with the mentally handicapped child who is incapable of learning the lessons and is only a distraction, but who must be mainstreamed due to the ADA and parent requests. Or the child born to the crack-addicted mother. The child with vision insufficiencies and insufficient resources to treat what is a simple problem to remedy.
We fail EVERYONE. By applying a one-size-fits-all solution, we have failed the entire group, and lowered the standards for everyone who happens to NOT be exceptional, further limiting their chances.
Gifted kids need more attention, yes… for sure… but we need to provide the BEST education we can for EVERYONE, and not punish being “ahead of the curve.”
Do I have a solution? No. However, I know first-hand that just advancing grade levels is no panacea.
I think the concept of grades, not as a rating of performance on a test or assignment, but as in “I am in 7th grade”, is outdated and outmoded.
In “learning classes”, kids should be allowed to advance as fast or slow as needed. For “activity” classes, they should be grouped with their peers, mostly by age.”Learning classes” would be those like math, reading, etc. “Activity” classes would be like PE, speech, music, etc. Some exceptions would be avaible for both.
For example, math would be taught at the same time for the whole school building. At that time, students would go to whichever classroom was teaching what they were ready to learn. Whenever they had mastered that level they would report to the next classroom. Student A might be in Ms. Jones’ Algebra 1 class for 3 semesters, while student B might be in there 3 months, then go to Mr. Smith’s Algebra 2 class.
Postal, agreed.
As a former “one room schoolhouse” student, the “country school” kids were frequently advanced at least one grade.
Many teachers tried to advance them MORE than one grade. They ALWAYS excelled in school, even if they were two grades ahead of their age.
But they paid for it. And by the time I was in the third grade, advancing kids was no longer done.
I think the “country school” kids were ahead of the curve because when we were all in one room, we were allowed to at least listen quietly if not participate in the lessons of the older kids.
Thus, by the time I was in the fourth grade, I’d “heard” seventh grade history four times. By the time I got to seventh grade, it was old news.
Also, not only were the “class” sizes smaller (there were only 17 kids in the whole school!) the older kids, if they had their own lessons done, were encouraged to help us little ones with our studies. So we got lots of individual attention and they got their knowledge reinforced.
We also played together on the playground at recess. It was the older boys who taught me how to play basketball, and we had to play “workup” with all ages if we wanted a softball game.
I remember John Marcy, a 180 lb seventh grader, moving closer to the plate when I was a 40lb first grader at bat. I remember big ol’ John gently pitching me a soft one so I could learn to hit. Then he’d let me get to first base by “pretending” to chase me down with the ball in his glove.
OMG, those were the days.
Those “big” kids always looked out for us little ones. And included us in their “reindeer games”. I know there must have been SOME problems at good ol’ South Downer District #13, but I’ll be damned if I remember them. :)
Consolidation and the arrival of the school bus to ship me to “town school” was the saddest day of my life… And even though I excelled at “town school” it was just never as good.
I’ve written lots of stories about my country school days. I still have a dream about a charter school for the gifted that would function in a similar way.
My old school house still stands 40+ years later. I drive by it all the time, and I wonder what might have been.
brian, I agree with your assessment on the “I’m in the 7th grade…” issue. The one problem I see (from being an observer) in some situations with some parents is that Student A’s parents may become quite incensed that Student B is moving on, when Student A’s parents are convinced that s/he is the next Einstein, and all the school needs to do is realize it.
Postal, your experience is why I appreciate more and more daily that back in 1960 my parents would not allow me to be “skipped” a grade, for some of what you post would have been my fate, too. There needs to be “gifted” education (acknowledging that I despise that label), so those young folks may be allowed to realize their potential without being held down so that the great middle may be served. And, as to your comments that all deserve the best education without punishing anyone, I cannot agree more.
HEH!
Now days, would ANYONE let their first grade daughter play with the seventh grade boys?
We had no fear. I’m sure bad things happened to some people, but we were always under the watchful eye of our teachers and the other kids.
I still dont always fear the things I should. I still think Mrs. Hafliger is watching out for me :)
political_mom, I could not agree less with your assertion that gifted programs should be secondary to those programs for those who need help. The gifted students need help, too, albeit a different type and kind of help, to allow them to realize their potential, just as those students “who need help” need programs so they might also realize their potential. Thus, these programs should be on equal footing, with neither “primary” or “secondary”.
“The one problem I see (from being an observer) in some situations with some parents is that Student A’s parents may become quite incensed that Student B is moving on, when Student A’s parents are convinced that s/he is the next Einstein, and all the school needs to do is realize it.
Posted by: Vaughn Tolle | November 30, 2007 at 12:11 PM”
Very valid point, and also easily taken care of. Standardized tests are required for many purposes. Use score requirements on already in place standardized tests to indicate advancement. Or some other form of more frequent testing, perhaps a computer based, learning center type of test students could take whenever they (and/or their parents, teachers and counselors) felt they were ready to move to the next level.
When our kids were in school they were in what was then called ‘progressive classes’ meaning that each child was encouraged to live up to their own potential. Different special classes were available for the level you were currently on. This left you physically with your own age group but allowed you to reach your full potential academically.
This came about because of the hell our middle child faced in the third grade when he got an older educator who thought kids were like cookie cutter shapes, all alike.
After seeking to have him treated for ADHD we finally found that he wasn’t being challenged enough. That solved his problem. In one week he moved up two years in math.
This to say “why haven’t our schools today figured this out?” There will always be children with special needs. Whether it is with a mental or physical challenge or because their mental ability is above their grade level. Is our education system going backwards?
Is our education system going backwards?
—————-I think the answer is a resounding YES!
I also think one of the important and unspoken goals of NCLB was to make sure our public schools failed. We’re on track for success.
ksgrm – we had something similar back in Georgia many years ago. And, for academic standards purposes (such as choosing ‘Star Student’ which was same as Valedictorian) the GPA was adjusted to account for those. 0.10 was added for each ‘advanced’ class.
ksgrm,money money money
Too many voters are short-sighted, and narrow minded. A slight increase in their taxes is more important to them than well educated children.Too many voters cannot get beyond the idea of school they were raised with – cookie-cutter and one size fits all.
In what way have the schools failed lindainks?
I recall that the scores that came out of the Wichita School District were higher than it has been in decades.
I remember growing up and seeing kids that were pushed from one grad to another, only to find out as a Senior in High School, some of these kids could barely read and read on a third grade level. Which is my opinion is very sad.
What specific issues have the NCLB failed in lindainks and why do you think the scores have improved, but the schools are failing?
Not sure I can see the linkage here.
brian, yours is a rational solution, but (again from observation) the hypothetical parents of Student A will not be easily convinced of the standardized test requirements, and will provide a plethora of reasons, rationales, etc., as to why those results are not correct as to their student. Of course, when Student A is misplaced in a class and then proceeds to fail, it will be the teacher’s/administrator’s/school’s fault.
I’ve seen an increase in such parental behavior from my observer’s post over the past five years, in a setting not quite like you present, but close enough that it is fairly analogous. Some parents who push like that then “get it” after there is such a failure and agree to their student being correctly placed, some never do. Interestingly, it also seems that this situation arises in math courses, almost exclusively.
If you honestly think scores are higher now, there is nothing I have to say to you. You’re starting out on a false premise. I’ve been down this road with you and refuse to go down it ever again. You don’t have an open mind or even a curious mind. You don’t want to know anything other than what you’ve chosen and you pick your facts carefully. I should have been adult enough to be quiet and ignore your question, I wasn’t. For that I feel ashamed.
VT,Unfortunately, I think that would, and could happen in any situation where there is an element of competition.I have no suggestion for that, other than for administrators to grow some balls. (Easier said than done in their situation, I know.)
Linda one observation I have made with schools today is that their expectations with student progress is low.
My grandson is going to UNI this year and his sister is a soph in high school. He tells her continually that she needs to learn to study. He thinks that is his biggest failure. He is now taking a class a a college student on learning to study. When should something like this be taught?
VT my sis-in-law is a high school teacher in Earth Science. She tells us stories of sending failing progress reports to a students parents and when the parents come in for the requested meeting they have a laundry list of everything ’she’ has done wrong as a teacher.
Her comment is how do you teach a student when you have no parental support?
Kansas, a few observations on your “scores are higher” post.
First, not all scores from the 2006 assessments were higher. In particular, there was a drop in performance on the high school reading assessment district wide.
Second, for 2005 (and thus, for 2006), the assessments were changed, making direct comparisons to results on the previous form(s) not possible.
Third, at the high school level, the math assessment is now done differently; until 2005, it was to be taken by 10th grade students; beginning in 2006, it is generally taken by 11th grade students (with some selected 10th graders also taking it, with the chance to take it again in the 11th grade by those who took it in the 10th grade and didn’t score at the proficient level or above. It isn’t too difficult to presume that with one more year of math classes, the high school scores might increase.
Fourth, as to your question about scores being higher but schools failing, the understanding I have from attending Site Council meetings and watching the School Board meetings is that the NCLB measuring stick for school improvement, to wit: AYP, was not achieved on this past year’s assessments by as many schools as had achieved it the prior year.
I’m not privy to the details on how ACT scores, SAT scores have done district wide, but I seem to recall something I read in the Eagle that there hasn’t been a great improvement on ACT scores in the district (IIRC, 0.1 point on the cumulative score). If one accepts the ACT as a “college admissions” test, it would seem that all other things being equal, the district’s students scores thereon would be increasing more than 0.1 point.
Ideally study skills begin at home long before a child attends a school. We don’t live in an ideal world. So some students who are nurtured from birth are advanced over others who weren’t. That doesn’t take into account the differences in abilities. And even with similar abilities there are different learning styles. It can be as individualized as people. And one size fits all will never be best. Standardized and all it encompasses offer some insight but must only be a part of how we measure and help each child perform to their best.
Thanks for the explanation Vaughn.
I wasn’t aware that the reading scores had drop, that’s a shame.
I’m as eager as the next fellow to see what we can do to ‘fix’ our schools where they are better.
Not so sure about using ACT as a standard, as from experience, I can tell you that maturity level has a lot to do with college entrance type exams. I saw this a lot in the military. Low ACT scores from high school tests, but when they retook them years later, they had improved.
I didn’t mean to offend you lindainks, was trying to better understand the process. I don’t have any kids in the school system as I don’t have any kids. :)
So, I have to rely on those who have kids and those who have a ‘keener’ view on the subject.
I have taught school a few years ago as a substitute, so do know something about the inner workings of a school system. I’ve seen a lot of things I would change, but now I’m out of touch with the inner workings and am just curious what I can do to help.
As far as not being interested, the reason I did substitute teaching was to help teachers out and help the kids out. There was no financial incentive in it for me as it only paid less than $10.00/hour with sporadic
schedules.
Anyway, I’ll butt out of the conversation, I didn’t realize it was so sensitive. :)
ksgrm, I agree that there shouldn’t be a class on “study skills” at the college level; the number of the same at various post-secondary institutions indicates some real problems. I’ve heard stories similar to that related by your sister-in-law from many teachers. I do not understand the lack of parental support in general.
In my opinion, and my opinion only, not supported by any hard data that I can find, the lower expectations in the classroom are a problem which has been exacerbated by the provisions of NCLB and its requirements as to AYP. Too much time is, I feel, spent “prepping” students for the assessments, to the detriment of, if I may say this, “real learning”. As I believe that higher expectations can only be achieved by the teacher/educator having enough time to present higher-level material, and correspondingly grade appropriate homework and tests, large class sizes also work against meeting higher expectations. It seems logical to me that if a teacher has 20 students/hour, and teaches 5 hours a day, s/he will have 100 papers to grade; but if the teacher’s classes are 30, then there will be 150 papers to grade. The latter situation, it seems to me, would encourage the use of multiple choice tests rather than short answer/essay exams, and fewer, rather than more, essays, etc.
Rambling again, so for now, my two cents.
Linda I think my question on this would be explained with an example.
Recently my 4th grade grandson had a teacher that took a maternity leave and her replacement was an older teacher now retired.
The first week he took a spelling test. He spelled them all right and got 100 on the spelling part but because he printed his answers because that is what he had been taught to do he got an F for not writing in cursive. He came home in tears.
What I learned from this is that cursive is no longer taught in schools. Printing is acceptable for everything. The older teacher didn’t know this.
These are things parents can’t help with if they don’t even know about it. He now knows cursive and thinks it is fun but it was taught at home.
Kansas, I’m not sure about the appropriateness of my use of the ACT either. I picked it for illustrative purposes, as the college bound students (almost all of them here in Kansas) take it. I agree that maturity, and additional educational experiences such as one might gain in the military, can have a positive effect on the scores; but, as the traditional college student comes straight from high school, and the Kansas qualified admissions relies upon the score on it for admission (yes, I know there are two alternate ways to qualify for admission other than a 21 score on the ACT), scholarships, etc., it seemed to me to be the “best of a group of bad choices”.