Here is something to consider this Veterans Day: Homeless shelters and agencies are seeing a steady increase in veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts.
More than 400 veterans of these wars already are homeless, and an estimated 1,500 are at high risk of becoming homeless, the New York Times reported. Some of the factors leading to the surge are post-traumatic stress disorder, traumatic brain injuries, high housing costs and sexual assault suffered while in the service. Overall, 1 in 4 homeless men are veterans.
“We’re beginning to see, across the country, the first trickle of this generation of warriors in homeless shelters,†said Phil Landis, chairman of Veterans Village of San Diego, a residence and counseling center. “But we anticipate that it’s going to be a tsunami.â€
Posted by Kristin Mehler
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101 Comments
Honor vets, buy that new mattress.
It strikes me the HOMELESS SITUATION IN WICHITA IS WICHITA’S # ONE PROBLEM.
The homeless situation needs to take priority and be addressed soon because so many other needed improvements are dependent on how it is dealt with.
It’s the Wichita domino theory.
Selecting a new library site is a good example. I believe most people agree it is flat out wrong to mix homeless people with young people who go to the library for school projects. Actually most patrons who go to the library are not able to defend themselves from the aggressiveness of the homeless.
The library staff are not trained or equipped to handle the homeless. A homeless facility needs trained social workers, police officers, representatives of various social services agencies and toilet facilities which are monitered regularly for cleanliness.
I suspect if this situation would be controlled somehow … the new downtown library might actually stay in downtown or closer thereto where it belongs.
This is one of many Wichita improvement projects that should have been paid for on a PAY AS YOU GO basis from sales taxes rather than the unneeded, unwanted downtown white elephant ice hockey arena.
Lets face it … a lot of short-sighted pro-arena promoters saw the sales tax as an “easy come, easy go” source of tax funds for their ice hockey rink project.
A VERY BAD DEAL FOR WICHITA AND SEDGWICK COUNTY TAXPAYERS.
I have met probably 18-20 people in the last 2 weeks that are newly homeless. These people do not know the streets and they are ill prepared for winter. Many of them are women, and they have nothing they can do but shack up or prostitute themselves to get inside at night. We do not have the resources to help them all. It is going to be a cold and brutal winter for the homeless in Wichita.
No answer…..
In a country that has so much, for anyone to be homeless is an indictment on us all. And that such a percentage in this growing number are military vets of badly planned wars?
Shame on us.
mah fren n me homles
go n big gren kolector fer vits so manee thro foodz
ah hab no glubs
col beets mah hans
Lets rally honor our vets….BRING THEM HOME FROM IRAQ NOW!!!!!!!!!!! That whole country is not worth the life of even one more service member
Lets really honor our vets….BRING THEM HOME FROM IRAQ NOW!!!!!!!!!!! That whole country is not worth the life of even one more service member
Lets really honor our vets….BRING THEM HOME FROM IRAQ NOW!!!!!!!!!!! That whole country is not worth the life of even one more service member
I remember all too well how the many Viet vets I knew in college were routinely shafted by the VA. I fear we are seeing a re-run of that today.
Lots of excuses…the fact is that as long as we enable people to live on the streets, then we’ll see more doing just that. People only make changes when they get uncomfortable, not when they’re enabled to stay sick.What about all the holocaust survivors? With so many being tramatized in the worst possible circumstances, why didn’t we see a huge influx of homeless after WWII?
Like I’ve said before..if you do something about the drug/alcohol/mental health problems..you’ll go a long way in solving the homeless problems. People don’t use drugs and alcohol because they’ve been tramatized, they use because they’re addicts…providing self resposibility and treatment is the only way to save them.I see prostitutes and even interact with them all the time on South Broadway…they’re in the streets because they’re addicted to drugs and it’s quick money…they have a choice, and they choose their self destructive lifestyle. Lots of us had crappy childhoods and huge challenges in life, but what we do with it is our choice. We can give into it or we can rise above it…and no one else can do it for us.
I would direct all of you to the VA web page.
http://www.vba.va.gov/bln/21/index.htm
Look for information on the “VA PENSION” —
It is a bit complicated, but any veteran who served under George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, or George W. Bush, can probably qualify for a nursing home subsidy, if truly disabled. This benefit is available even if the Vet never served in Iraq or Afganistan. It is the period of service that qualifies the Vet, not geography!
Also, service connected injuries qualify for even more benefits.
It is complicated, as I said, but all of these Vets served during a recognized “combat period”.
In other words, those vets who have “traumatic brain injuries” are ALREADY covered, under federal law, for this benefit, in more ways than one.
Furthermore, Medicaide benefits would be available for many of these Veterans.
The problem with getting a homeless person into an assited living facility or a nursing home is often this:
The homeless person refuses help, or does not want to give up the lifestyle he has, or does not want to give up drugs or alcohol, or does not want to be “forced” to medicate, in an appropriate manor, and would rather “self-medicate.”
The real value of non-profits and social service agencies, towards these vets, would be to process the applications for these Federal benefits, which are ALREADY in place.
While the government does have programs to help vets their hard to get. right now the the military discharges people in a way that voids any medical/disability claims by using the preexisting condition line.
One just doesn’t “get out” of the military if there they have medical conditions and transition to the streets.
There are many avenues of redress and many methods and people to help Vets to transition into the civilian world.
I know several Vets who receive free treatment at the local VA facility for conditions of mental disorder that happened to them (or showed up) after they were in the service. They get the pharmaceuticals mailed directly to where they live and without charge.
I agree with Econ101, the ones that roam the streets are those who prefer the street lifestyle and have avoided or refused at all costs any help offered to them by the VA or the military.
Yeah I knew a couple of Vets that hit the streets after they got out of the military. After they ruined their lives in every way imaginable, their one sober moment they ask for help they meet some bureaucracy and quit the help they are going to get. They would rather go booze it up or inject something into their arm.
Tom
Again, the “VA Pension” has nothing to do with:
Service Connected Disabilities
Geographic Area of Service
PreExisting conditioins
The VA Pension is awarded based on period of service and need.
Homeless people would likely meet the income and net worth requirments.
Those who served under Bush 1, Clinton or Bush 2 would meet the “combat period” test.
Now, in addition to the VA Pension, anyone who suffered “traumatic brain injury” as mentioned in the opening of this thread — well, that does NOT sound like a “pre-existing condition” to me.
Service connected disabilities qualify for a whole bunch of other benefits.
And— there is always Medicaid
While the government does have programs to help vets their hard to get. right now the the military discharges people in a way that voids any medical/disability claims by using the preexisting condition line.
Posted by: Tom Paine | November 11, 2007 at 12:30 PM
Pre-existing conditions have always been part of the exclusion, nothing new there.
I remember one kid that got out was complaining the military didn’t give him any compensation for his back. He had slight scoliosis from birth and as his age progressed he was getting some pinching on the nerves of his spine. The military didn’t cause that, that is a something that happened to him before he was born.
Even though he was born with scoliosis, he tried to serve! Some people are born near sighted and their vision degenerates gradully with age like the back pain — the military gives them glasses!
And if the backpain military person had problems on active duty due to his congenital condition, he would have receive treatment.
He/she would have also been eligible for medication from the VA after he/she got out.
He/she would not receive any VA compensation in terms of monies from the VA because it was congenital.
It sounds like the same mess with Social Security applications 50,000 backlog in Kansas alone – read on
I guess the homeless vets will just have to wait until someone calls their number — you know like in “BEETLEJUICE”.
http://irregulartimes.com/solvingveterans.html
Bush Honors Veterans By Slashing Veterans Affairs Budget by $1 Billion
by James Boyne
June 1, 2004
I read today in an article by the Associated Press that President Bush’s 2006 budget (if he is re-elected) has a provision in it that will cut funds for Veterans Affairs by 3.4% or roughly $1 billion. The total VA Budget is $28.7 billion a year.
Need an explanantion:
This is How Bush Supports Our Troopsby Kenneth NorrisJanuary 30, 2004 | Do you support our troops? If so, prepare to be outraged that our commander in chief does not.
The Bush Administration’s 2004 budget proposed gutting Veterans Administration (VA) services, including health care funding. Proposed cuts included: denying at least 360,000 veterans access to health care; $250 annual premiums; increased pharmacy co-payments; a 30 percent increased primary care co-payments; and increased waiting time for a first medical appointment.
Because of budgetary shortfalls, the VA suspended the enrollment of veterans not injured in service earning between $24,450 and $38,100 annually. VFW officials estimated the administration’s VA budget is at least $2 billion short of meeting the demand for quality health care.
Want more:
Bush plan cuts vets’ care in ‘08Critics say it’s a ruse to make budget deficit look smallerBy ANDREW TAYLORTHE ASSOCIATED PRESSWASHINGTON — At least tens of thousands of veterans with non-critical medical issues could suffer delayed care or even be denied care in coming years to enable President Bush to meet his promise of cutting the deficit in half — if the White House is serious about its proposed budget.After an increase for next year, the Bush budget would turn current trends on their head.Even though the cost of providing medical care to veterans has been growing by leaps and bounds, White House budget documents assume a cutback in 2008 and further cuts thereafter.In fact, the proposed cuts are so draconian that it seems to some that the White House is simply making them up to make its long-term deficit figures look better. More realistic numbers, however, would raise doubts as to whether Bush can keep his promise to wrestle the deficit under control by the time he leaves office.
Blunt, but very true Horst.
If you look at homeless numbers for the last 50 years, you see a fairly level number.
To blame this on one political party vs another, is unfounded in fact, the homeless have always been with us, and they always will be.
The unchanging number of homeless people points to something beyond one political party, and something beyond the lack of Social Services in the US.
Even the homeless are not starving in America with 50% obesity rates among the poor.
Mental illness, drug/alcohol addiction are major factors. When these problems are solved, many of the homeless will find a more productive life style.
Some Libs here want to legalize drugs, which would actually increase the number of homeless people.
Some, just want to be free and choose to be homeless. Hop a train and go south in winter, and north in summer. How ya gonna cure them? Lock em up?
Ken
Your figures are completely bogus propaganda.
The budget for the VA has gone up every year.
When agencies dont get everything they want, it is not a “cut” — a cut is when this years budget is LESS than last years budget.
It hasnt EVER happened!
Beyond that, some people have decided to use the “Part D” drug program rather than the Veterans RX program. Some of the numbers are simple cost shifting and accounting.
I read an article which I cannot find anymore about why there was less mention of homeless in yesteryear. People knew of hard times and there were stories like “Grapes of Wrath” and other that talked about the plight of the displaced. In those cases, the people were working poor, but they did something.
The “Bowery Bums” were known drunks and drug users whose drug induced states kept them on the streets.
Loners were called hermits back then and chose to live alone and in squalor – they actually chose it although capable of doing meaningful work.
Hobos hopped on rail cars and set up hobo camps, they loved the lifestyle and lived it. They wanted no responsibilities, nothing to tie them down.
I remember one homeless man that used to frequent the downtown public library. He was a fairly young guy. He would drag books from the shelf and take a whole long table by himself.
I happened one day to exit the Library the same time as he did. He took off down the street in a burst of speed like a trained athlete. I had my car and just as I got to the overpass for Kellogg, the young homeless man was still running at full speed.
Being well conditioned and obviously in excellent shape, I had to only wonder why he was homeless. He was obviously in good enough shape to work.
I helped out a friend one time when he went on vacation. My task was to give alcoholics rides to AA meetings. I would hear their stories of self-induced miseries of how they lied, cheated and stole from their own relatives.
Some of those AA reformed turned out just fine, others stumbled back into drunken stupor. The ones that fell back loved the “victim” status and played it to the max.
I’m sure there are some truly homeless through no fault of their own – usually family violence or drug related.
Most that I have seen and been around live to bilk the system and become “invisible” to expectations of responsibility and normality.
When they talk to me about mental illness or handicap, I tell them about my relative with Down’s syndrome who has held a job for almost twenty five years now. He will be eligible for retirement and if he lives long enough social security.
Social agencies can be the “driver” like I was to take in or take to care or facilities, but they cannot force the person to change if they don’t want to.
All one has to do is read the past and know there will always be some that want to drop out of society for whatever reason. They will always exist.
So Kansas is on the side of the Nazi? Looks like econ might be too. How odd? Or not
Calling laziness, society drop outs or drug problems for what it is Rev Jim is not a sign of political affiliation, it’s called the truth.
Horst
PTSD is REAL.
Just like a back injury, the claim can, unfortunately, be abused.
However, those who truly suffer from PTSD deserve our sympathy and our support.
Rev Jim?
Is your last name “Jones”??
No thanks, don’t need any of your Marxist Koolaide!
Looks you drink alot of “Fascist” koolaide for several people. Kansas if your tard cousin can work why cant you?
How many here want to bet, that not one Lib will take Rev Jim to task on his words, because he is actually one of their trolls. :)
It is quite a bit disturbing about one part of Jwink’s comment.
“Lets face it … a lot of short-sighted pro-arena promoters saw the sales tax as an “easy come, easy go” source of tax funds for their ice hockey rink project.”
It is very disturbing to acknowledge the facts that so-called good citizens will go thru great efforts to promote and to collect money from the public for outlandish iconic structures or to achieve status quo lifestyles.And yet we cannot bear upon ourselves to truly take responsibilities to care for society’s woes.
Luke 6:22Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.
I can see that we have plenty of experts on homelessness on this thread. Yep.. do nothing and the problem will go away! Dumb Christians are giving them food and shelter.. how terrible of us! Noone has all the answers, but not understanding the problem and spouting off like you know something, or being cruel and heartless is definately NOT the answer. I truly pray that YOU experts never receive that kind of treatment, knowing that being homeless could be only one bad decision or one critical illness away!
If you don’t want to help, fine, just don’t become part of the problem by getting in our way.. we would appreciate that!
Who are you pointing fingers at kansassam?
You don’t know what my Church does for the homeless do you? We also have world wide missions that help the homeless, the hungry and poor in other countries.
We also sent “teams” of people into the Katrina area to rebuild homes, schools and assist in handing out supplies, food and water.
We have steady annual love offerings for the poor, needy and homeless.
We have entire committees that set aside church funds to assist those in need.
We have mission funds decades old that have been helping the hungry, the homeless and the needy.
We have clothing drives, supplies for school kids and general funds available to organizations who need them.
We have associations of men and women who help organizations such as AA and drug rehab centers with transportation issues.
We work in tangent with our collective group of Churches in the convention to sponsor larger projects to help the poor.
You don’t hear about us, because we don’t ask for front page coverage. We just go out and do it, because the Lord says we should.
Oh yes, I will be on the driver’s list in about two months to help drive elderly to doctor’s appointments from their care homes or their own homes. I don’t want that in the paper either, I do it because the Lord commands it.
Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Kansas…
I think it’s wonderful what your church does. I wish more churches would take on more responsibility.
What makes you think my comment was pointed at you? My concern is with those like “Horst” that just put down homeless people and never do anything to help. You notice I quoted from his comment.
I have a lot of compasssion for the homeless..and I think that enabling them so they can live on the streets is no way to deal with their problems. It might make the ones who are “helping” feel better, but it really does little to alievate the underlying problems that lead to homelessness in the first place.Although I have great respect for you, Kansassam, I don’t believe that we are all just one “bad decision or critical illness” away from being homeless. If I lost everything I have right now, I still wouldn’t end up homeless, and it’d be no time until I’m back right where I am right now. The difference between humans is in the ROUTINE choices they make..not what tragedy befalls them. Life can happen to any of us and it does all the time, it’s what we choose to do with adversity that makes the difference.
I know plenty of people with chronic mental illness, with historys of abuse, with physical disabilities, etc. that are not living on the streets abusing drugs and alcohol. They know how to ask for help and they take advantage of the services that are already available for those who want help.
It’s an attitude and a lack of common sense that causes homelessness…it’s not a failure on the part of society and society isn’t going to diminish homelessness with giveaway programs, but by society enabling homelessness, it has become a big part of the underlying problem.
Might I suggest a book? “Codependant No More” by Melodie Beattie is a good read with lots of insight as to how well meaning people enable addiction and dysfunctional behaviors in others.
One of the insights in “Codependant No More” that I always have to remind myself of is: when you do something for someone that they need to do for themselves, then you just reinforce their self image of being helpless and dependant.It’s harder to live by this insight than not…because when we jump in and try to save people from their bad choices, it eases OUR anxiety about their situation.
Mary,
I hear you, but what my model enables, is for homeless to earn their way off the street and back into the mainsream. Housing first approaches work especially well with dual diagnosis clients that are homeless AND have a mental disability.
What’s your model Kansassam? I didn’t see it.
Civilians have ZERO idea what its really like. Walter Reed? I’ve been there. Its mold covered and they’re drastically understaffed. Prescriptions Line? It takes hours. Active Duty gets to go first, but there are usually hundreds of veterans waiting in line waiting. Veterans who gave their lives and some their sight, hearing, body for this country don’t get to get their pain medication in a timely period? What is wrong with this system. It’s not just Walter Reed, I’ve been to every military hospital in the DC area now, since we’re stationed at Andrews AFB. Malcolm Grow, Bolling, and Walter Reed. All are drastically understaffed and the prescription situation is the same. It takes weeks to get an appointment. They say to call just a couple days before the start of the month to fight for an appointment that month. What if you’re sick? Well you can try calling early in the morning but if its urgent make a trip to the ER where you get to wait with a bunch of other sick people for hours. My son, who is one, was bleeding from the head and we weren’t seen for 3 hours. 3 hours! You want to know what we see on a daily basis? Med buses medivac sick wounded soldiers from the flight line at andrews afb to walter reed. Those buses are generally filled and during the week I see at least 2 a day. AT LEAST! Thousands of men are coming home wounded and all we hear about are the dead. Yes, we need to honor the dead, but people need to know how many are hurt and what their care is like. I’ve seen those rooms at Walter Reed. We stayed in one. It looks like a time capsule. Metal beds, slates of metal as mirrors, bathrooms so old the pipes creak whenever you turn on the water, mold, grit. Its not clean. It doesn’t smell like other hospitals, that clean sanitized smell. It’s sick! It’s sick. For those veterans who need care after, and for us military families there are wonderful signs on the door of the family care offices. They read “one issue per appointment please”. That’s right. Those people who fight for this country and us families left behind can only bring up one issue per appointment. If more then one make another appointment which is IMPOSSIBLE to get. Our hospitals are out of date and our doctors are deployed. I see veterans every day at the commissary and the BX on the base where we live. I’ve seen men burned so badly they’re unrecognizable as human. I’ve seen men who recently found themselves blind. I’ve seen families whose husbands gave their lives who can’t get a doctors appointment for a sick child and sit in the ER for hours. It is not right. Sure, we get “free” health care, but look at the price. This is a disgrace. We can’t have a voice or we risk the consequences. We need a voice. That man they call our president sits by and does nothing visiting privately funded hospitals. He gets to have all his appointments at National Naval Medical Center; which is REALLY nice, but impossible for the underlings to get into. I don’t think he waits months for an appointment, hours for prescriptions, can only talk about one issue per appointment, and gets medical care in these conditions. That’s whats wrong with this country.
Ks-Sam – I think you need to get the entire AECH plan publicized. I am familiar with parts of it and, from what I have seen, it looks like a good proposal.
As I understand it, it includes counseling, working at the shelter and elsewhere. But I’m not certain.
And Sam – a favor please. It’s not just ‘dumb Christians’ on your side but some ‘dumb Agnostics’ as well.
This is the price of war. Men will come back and they will be broken physically and mentally and they will be bitter and angry. We still are dealing with it from Veitnam. And you folks think war is so fun and all! Yeah, it is unpopular now but you folks could not wait to invade Iraq! Now we all gotta pay the bill for it and it ain’t so fun after all. And the biggest cost will be paid by the soldiers.
“”"” It’s not just Walter Reed, I’ve been to every military hospital in the DC area now, since we’re stationed at Andrews AFB. Malcolm Grow, Bolling, and Walter Reed. All are drastically understaffed and the prescription situation is the same. It takes weeks to get an appointment. They say to call just a couple days before the start of the month to fight for an appointment that month. What if you’re sick? Well you can try calling early in the morning but if its urgent make a trip to the ER where you get to wait with a bunch of other sick people for hours. My son, who is one, was bleeding from the head and we weren’t seen for 3 hours. 3 hours! You want to know what we”"”
Good post. Surely we can do better.
No person or animal should be without shelter, food and water. The homeless have a varity of problems and many of them are simply too mentally or physically ill to care for themselves. I really think that we need to look into institutionalizing some of them- not to punish them but to care for them because they cannot care for themselves. Maybe some could be medicated for mental illness and have something resembling a life.
It is disappointing for me to see YOU Mary in the company of Paul econ and the government leach/hypocrite Kansas.
Perhaps you have become cynical in your work?
I myself do not CARE why someone is suffering or homeless. In a society such as ours their is simply NO excuse for it.
Good point, Kev..the homeless situation got a lot worse when they cleared out the state institutions…and changed the rules so that families couldn’t force their loved ones into treatment when they needed it.As it stands, families have their hands tied when a loved one needs help but is too sick to realize it.
Please remember also Mary that MANY of the mentally disabled who USED to have facilities to care for them were left to their own and the tender mercies of folks like you and ksam. Ronald Reagan did that. I’m sure you remember.
We were thinking some of the same things at the same time there Mary.
It was a good idea that backfired…what often seems like a reasonable plan doesn’t work in reality, and deinstitutionalizing those with chronic mental illness and giving more rights to those who need treatment has directly created most of the homeless situation. It saves the state money of course, because when someone is living on the streets the churches and charities will try to pick up the slack…but many will just fall through the cracks. Why should the state care? It doesn’t cost anything when homeless people die, except the $700 to have them cremated, and that’s a bargain as far as the state is concerned.
JRWhat, exactly, have you ever done, of a charitable nature?
It is my experience that:
Poor men have no money to give to charity.
Poor men can not give anyone a job!
JRLet me see your tax return.If you gave anything at all to charity last year, as long as it was not a politically oriented organization, I will match your largest single contribution.
JRYou are caught in ANOTHER lie.
Ronald Reagan absolutely was NOT responsible for “deinstitutionalization” — it was the ACLU and liberals who made it impossible to treat people against their will.
‘De-institutionalization’ was a big mistake. As noted by Mary; it might have been a good idea that back-fired. A big part of that IMO was that there was SUPPOSED to be community-based services to take the place of institutionalization. That part didn’t happen.
I hope that a part of whatever gets put together is some sort of support/treatment for those in need of that. ESPECIALLY for vets suffering PTSD due to their service to this country. They have paid their dues; IN SPADES!
Study JRThese links are my charitable, pro bono work for you, one of my less fortunate fellow humans:
http://www.psychlaws.org/GeneralResources/article17.htm
“However, these laws are difficult to invoke. Lawsuits brought by the American Civil Liberties Union and Washington-based Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law have changed most states’ criteria for outpatient commitment. Individuals must be classified as an imminent danger to themselves or others before they can be involuntarily treated, ”
http://www.psychlaws.org/GeneralResources/Article2.htm
It was on Reagans watch and he was in favor of it. And it was not just keeping people from being treated against their will either. Much of the government infrastructure for those people was defunded.
And I’ll NOT be called a liar by a KNOWN liar there Paulie.
My charitable contributions?
Look on the Sebelius thread next door. Some of us are about more than checkbook charity.
Reagan’s driving force in shutting down the institutions had nothing to do with liberty. It was strictly $$$$$. He wanted to cut that part of the budgets while he was increasing other spending wildly. And then, to make matters worse, he cut funding for community-based treatment.
BenWhy is this a Federal problem?
Actually, for the truly disabled who need nursing home care, there is Medicaid.
That program is a shared project between the Federal and State governments.
If we had ALL the institutions still standing, they would be empty, because the ACLU let everyone out, with their lawsuits.
Thanks the assist Ben you said it better.
Nice try Paul. Blame the liberals with good motive for what conservatives did with an eye on the bottom line.
JRSo, everything that happened on Clintons watch was Clintons fault?
Paul – prove your last claim. Cite the ACLU suits that forced the closing of the institutions.
JRGood motive?What good motive is there in letting the mentally ill wander the streets?
The ACLU is to blame for much of the homeless problem.
Ben
Scroll up, would you?I did that already.
“However, these laws are difficult to invoke. Lawsuits brought by the American Civil Liberties Union and Washington-based Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law have changed most states’ criteria for outpatient commitment. Individuals must be classified as an imminent danger to themselves or others before they can be involuntarily treated, either in the hospital or in the community; this criterion is strictly applied. Most psychotic individuals, who are merely making threats against others or living on the streets and eating out of garbage cans, are not deemed legally sick enough to qualify for outpatient commitment.”
The above lifted from my link, also above.
The old “commitment” laws WERE a little onerous.
It took just two signatures to put someone away. This was much abused.
That the ACLU addressed it is positive. That Reagan chose to exploit it is shameful.
test – losing posts
The ACLU went after ineffective ‘warehousing’ operations – the ’snake pits.’
I’d like to see someone with first-hand knowledge like KS-sam comment on your “ACLU causes homelessness” claim. I suspect it is as bogus as your geology, biology, and chemistry claims.
The ACLU went after ineffective ‘warehousing’ operations – the ’snake pits.’
I’d like to see someone with first-hand knowledge like KS-sam comment on your “ACLU causes homelessness” claim. I suspect it is as bogus as your geology, biology, and chemistry claims.
and now a double … and more lost. Shutting down for the night.
“However, these laws are difficult to invoke. Lawsuits brought by the American Civil Liberties Union and Washington-based Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law have changed most states’ criteria for outpatient commitment. Individuals must be classified as an imminent danger to themselves or others before they can be involuntarily treated, either in the hospital or in the community; this criterion is strictly applied. Most psychotic individuals, who are merely making threats against others or living on the streets and eating out of garbage cans, are not deemed legally sick enough to qualify for outpatient commitment.”
The above lifted from my link, also above.
Giuliani has his rats. An estimated 90 million rats live in New York City.
The homeless help feed them, although most dine in the better restaurants { those restaurants that wish to keep their licenses.
Bone Appetite
econ as usual your numbers are wronmg too
Ed, you got it backwards. The rats feed and clothe the homeless.
The Rats are fed to the Cats. The Cat fur is used to keep the homeless warm, while the Cat guts is fed back to the Rats.
The homeless then dine on CatRat stew in the homeless shelters.
Perfect symbiotic relationship.
Pat–
I’m curious. Are you a vet?
“”"‘De-institutionalization’ was a big mistake. As noted by Mary; it might have been a good idea that back-fired. A big part of that IMO was that there was SUPPOSED to be community-based services to take the place of institutionalization. That part didn’t happen.”"”
Back then mental institutions were hell holes where people were tied up and given shock therapies. We have come along ways since then in the treatment of the mentally ill. We really need to look into the laws and perhaps rethink involuntary commitments for treatment. Maybe take a look at how Canada deals with this problem. It is very cold in Canada and I don’t hear of homeless people freezing to death there. What do they do?
Glorious Opportunity To Get Rich!!! — We are starting a cat ranch in Lacon with 100,000 cats. Each cat will average 12 kittens a year. The cat skins will sell for 30 cents each. One hundred men can skin 5,000 cats a day. We figure a daily net profit of over $10,000.
Now what shall we feed the cats?
We will start a rat farm next door with 1,000,000 rats. The rats breed 12 times faster than the cats. So we will have four rats to feed each day to each cat. Now what shall we feed the rats? We will feed the rats the carcasses of the cats after they have been skinned.
Now Get This! We feed the rats to the cats and the cats to the rats and get the cat skins for nothing!
Nice try Capn. You would just love to know who I am.
Notta chance!
Max..
Our model is being tested here, but is greatly underfunded. Click on my nickname and you can see our Adopt A Home program on our “Donations” page under “Attached”.
We are trying to pattern our programs off of a successful program in NYC. If you want to see the research, just Google “Pathways to Housing”. I would be interested in any feedback that might benefit our homeless friends. Thanks!
Okay, Pat.
If telling someone whether one is a vet or not is letting them know “who I am,” let me tell you who I am.
I am not a vet.
You can search for my car in the parking lot at Dillons.
Mine will be the one WITHOUT the vet license plate.
Ben,
I have only been to one AECH meeting. When I found that they were still working on their Plan to make a plan, and no clue how any of it was to be funded I lost interest. They are ONLY looking at Chronically homeless, a very small percentage. Hopefully they will come up with a good funded plan, but I chose not to wait, and that is why Streetlight went public. I sent a letter to over 100 local churches hoping to get support. I’m still waiting……
BTW, I’m also a college educated, white male, married, heterosexual.
Resident of Wichita, Kansas, registered Democratic.
‘Course that last piece of info does NARROW it down quite a bit . . .
WOW Pat you ARE insane!
This is worrisome to me.
I’ve been the object of obsession before but not for a full on kook.
Sam – is Streetlight in the book? I’d like to meet you ‘face-to-face’ to discuss some ideas.
Ben,
As Ksam suggested to me on the Sebelius thread, hover your cursor on kansassams nic. The url is a link to street light ministries. No phone number but there is contact info.
JR..
Yes, just click on “kansassam” and it should take you there!
thanks!!
Posted by: kansassam | November 11, 2007 at 03:17 PM
Like that Ben.
Ben,
to keep costs down, we are cell phone centric, so not in the book. 737-5362 is the number, but I leave the phone at home during the day… you can catch me late afternoon or evening.
Sam,
What are your thoughts on one of the primary goals of AECH of creating a non-religious 24/7 drop in facility?
A major complaint among the homeless is that the religious based facilities want the people they help to “experience” their religion or service or something. There are many people who wont go to some of those facilities just because they feel they are “forced” to go to church or what ever.
Thanks JR – DUH!
;^)
Tony…
That would fulfill a very critical need in this community. Although it matters not IMHO if it is sponsored by a faith-based organization or not. (as long as they don’t make it a requirement to attend church services to receive services.) The Lord’s Diner provides an excellent service, and I don’t believe they require anything to eat there. The current drop-in is faith based, but is just not large enough!
If it has showers, storage, job-placement services, transportation assistance, and possibly counseling services (COMCARE) and a VA liason, then it will be goodness.
The r
Sam,Another thing to include in a shelter that would really help would be an anonymous phone line for them to call family as well as possible employers. Many of the homeless I’ve run into feel completely cut off from everybody else.
You’re really good at selling decency! Hit up the local phone services to donate a line or at least give you a drastically cut rate.
Jed..
That brings up one I forgot. There needs to be a central service center phone line that can connect people with a database of ALL available services in the area. United Way has a good start with their 200 number, but if you aren’t part of United Way, well… too bad, you aren’t on the list.
Actually kansasam I think there is a way you can be placed on the United Way list.
When I was stationed in San Antonio and a local chairperson for our Unit’s UW campaign, the same question came up.
The regional director told us “Yes, just pencil in the name, address and contact point” of the the agency you want the funds to go through. If they are not on the Federal or State’s list of disapproved agencies (scammers), then we send along the funds.
That was many years ago, I wouldn’t think it would have changed though.
Kansas…
I think you are right about non-profits requesting funds from UW. Any approved organization can do it. The problem lies in centralization… every agency wants to be Top Dog, and some, like Union Rescue will not share any information with anyone else.
It’s more about who gets the glory rather than who gets the assistance…. sad, but true.
There are so many prostitutes on South Broadway right now..I have no idea why the police aren’t cracking down. They constantly come into the apartment complex where my patients live and try to take advantage of the disabled who live there. The landlord has tried to deter them, but he can’t be there 24/7 and they wait until he’s gone before they make the rounds.
Frankly, I’m sick of the people who live on the streets, they bring down the property values, increase the crime rates, and take advantage of the vulnerable who live in the areas they frequent. The more food banks, soup kitchens, shelters, etc. in an area, the more it attracts these types of people to that area. I’m tired of my patients getting ripped off and taken advantage of, my patience is really wearing thin.
Mary, what’s that address?
I thought Democrats were supporting the legalization of prostitution and drugs?
Ummmm…I’ve not heard that and I’M a democrat.
Just go anywhere South on Broadway around the Mt Vernon area after the sun starts to go down…but you’ll be disappointed, “pretty woman” doesn’t exist. There are some “pretty skanky women” walking the street.
Mary,
Is that really you? It doesn’t sound like you.. did someone troll your nic?
You know as well as I do that the food banks, the Diner and the shelters are not in that area.
They’re just down the street, Sam. The whole downtown area as turned into a mecca for the homeless..from 13th Street North to as far South as Pawnee..I’ve been in those neighborhoods for years and the problems are just getting worse. All along Topeka there are halfway houses..the Shirkmire is known to house the highest number of sexual offenders in Wichita. The property values in that whole area have declined, and the landlords who have owned property there for years feel hopeless and stuck..like one said me the other day “No one with any money would want to invest in property around this area” and he’s right.While those with good hearts have come up with all sorts of ways to assist those who live on the fringes of society to survive, they’ve done a tremendous disservice to those who have their life’s work invested in downtown residential properties.
Mary,
Oh, you are right about the halfway houses.. I have friends that live at Lincoln and Market. It appears there are far more street people out there than just the homeless. The ones that have some money are in a better position to cause trouble. It would be so much easier if the ones that truly wanted to better themselves had a neon sign or something that pointed them out. Some of them can talk a really good story and it takes awhile to figure out they are using the system. Unfortunately, that comes with the territory if you are truly interested in finding the ones that will work with you to get them back on their feet! I agree with you that it would help alot if the police would crack down on the illegal activities. That kind of nonsense is hurting everyone and needs to stop!
I do feel for those who have lived down there for years and have lost tvalue on their homes. I have a lot less compassion for those building the “upscale” developments… they KNOW what the neighborhood is like.
Mary,
Oh, you are right about the halfway houses.. I have friends that live at Lincoln and Market. It appears there are far more street people out there than just the homeless. The ones that have some money are in a better position to cause trouble. It would be so much easier if the ones that truly wanted to better themselves had a neon sign or something that pointed them out. Some of them can talk a really good story and it takes awhile to figure out they are using the system. Unfortunately, that comes with the territory if you are truly interested in finding the ones that will work with you to get them back on their feet! I agree with you that it would help alot if the police would crack down on the illegal activities. That kind of nonsense is hurting everyone and needs to stop!
I do feel for those who have lived down there for years and have lost tvalue on their homes. I have a lot less compassion for those building the “upscale” developments… they KNOW what the neighborhood is like.
I ran into the neighborhood police last night and talked to them about the problems with the street people taking advantage of my clients by ripping them off and begging them for money, they basically laughed and said there wasn’t anything they could do because the prostitutes hide whenever they see a ploce car….they knew all the prostitutes I decribed by their first names and admitted they usually arrest them once a week or so…I would think these “ladies” would pose enough of a health risk that they could get some consequences other than an occasional slap on the hand. I feel really sorry for any woman who is so desperate to get high that she will sell herself for $10…but I get really frustrated at them for always trying to get into my clients apartments so they can take advantage.