People have been piling on a silly Santa coach in Australia who advised new Clauses to replace “ho, ho, ho†with “ha, ha, ha†to avoid demeaning women, a la Don Imus. In another holiday skirmish, a task force in Ft. Collins, Colo., recommended the city’s holiday light display stay away from red and green as too religious (the City Council rightly rejected the idea last week).
What gives rise to such madness? As a Chicago Tribune editorial asked: “Who are these people who believe the world would be a better place if Christmas lights were white and Santa Claus said ‘ha, ha, ha’ to small children? If you’re one of them, ask Santa to bring you a life.â€
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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113 Comments
Geez. We just got back to being able to wish each other a “Merry Christmas” and now all these other politically correct actions appear.
Every time some fails to celebrate Christmas, the baby Jesus dies a little.
Thank you Rhonda for bringing some sanity to this insanity called political correctness.
Red and green too religious? Why are they attacking Saturnalia?
Short wavelengths are sacreligious! :-)
The funny thing is that, if these morons bothered to consult any genuine experts on church/state separation (or in the case of the Santa coach–they have coaches??–a dictionary!), we would be deprived of these amusing idiocies. I’m not sure I’d like that.
Keep it up folks! Chuck Shepard needs more material for “News of the Weird”!
What about the war on Hanukkah?
BTW, the Ft. Collins story is absurd. What the city did was decide that the colors were going to be uniform and that all the lights were going to be white. Red and green colors weren’t banned. Typical conservative media has to report false stories to get the Reich-wing all riled up.
Remember the Maine!
Green has NOTHING to do with Christmas.
Green is associated with the renewal of life,light, and the harvest of plenty that the solstice brings.
It’s understandable the confusion though. Those grinchy Christians stole the traditional nature celebrating holiday.
And a joyous Solstice to all!
“A special task force in a Colorado city has recommended banning red and green lights at the Christmas holiday because they fall among the items that are too religious for the city to sponsor.”
Do the research Doug. It saves you from backing down I have found.
“…a task force in Ft. Collins, Colo., recommended the city’s holiday light display stay away from red and green as too religious… ”
It appears Ft. Collins will now be a town with nothing but amber traffic signal lights as red and green might be too religious.
Drive through the city with extreme caution.
kansas – sounds like fun! As a veteran of driving in Boston I should do well!
What research? It’s hard to find a source–even on Google News–that isn’t some rightwing rant about it.
Got a link?
The Supreme Court caused this crap several years back, when it allowed religious displays on public property so long as it was mixed (”let’s throw a menorah in there!”), and included “secular symbols” (reindeer, etc.). A Supremely stupid idea. Lawrence Tribe put it best (paraphrasing from memory): “Government can endorse religion now, so long as it meets the approval of the interior decorators on the Supreme Court.”
Keep government out of the business of promoting religion–any religion–and problem solved!
I’m sorry but the Supreme Court has removed the word “religion” from usage in the United States.
Please substitute the words, “my hatred,” “my intolerance” and “my atheistic bark sucking mantra” for the world “Religion.
Still waiting on that link. . . I won’t hold my breath. . .
P.S. Since Kansas won’t give us his link, I got it for him. Looks like “Worldnet Daily” is the source. Big Surprise.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22A+special+task+force+in+a+Colorado+city+has+recommended+banning+red+and+green+lights+at+the+Christmas+holiday+because+they+fall+among+the+items+that+are+too+religious+for+the+city+to+sponsor.%22&btnG=Google+Search
Actually Rage, I didn’t have to give a link.
I got the “green and red theme” from Rhonda’s entry at the top of the page.
The rest was from my own creativity.
But what ever twists your tannenbaum Rage.
Colored lights to be allowed according to WND:
“Anthony told WND that there actually would be colored lights allowed.
“Colored lights would be allowed as part of holiday display inside city buildings, and as part of the multicultural display at the museum. Our recommendations allow wide latitude as far as what can be included in those displays, which are the displays the public sees and interacts with the most,” he said. “
“The rest was from my own creativity.”
Meaning you made it up???
Nice.
I guess fetid minds like alike.
Oh, I see–you were just regurgitating Rhonda.
. . .who apparently, got her news from some rightwing idiot ranting about it.
Which rather makes my point.
~Rudolph the (blank) nose reindeer~
~I’m dreaming of a white (blank)~
~Have a (blank) jolly (blank)~
Sorry, just testing out songs and leaving out the offensive parts that may offend Libs.
Q: What is red and white and goes “Ho – Ho – Ho!”
A: A pimp counting his girls.
Don’t you see the way the Liberals are destroying America? Its the liberal medias fault.
Signed,Rush Limbaugh
Q: What is red and white and goes “Ho – Ho – Ho!”
A: A pimp counting his girls.
Posted by: Wiseman | November 29, 2007 at 02:29 PM
Thats a good one! Except most pimps are black.
SignedRush Limbaugh
Thats a good one! Except most pimps are black.SignedRush LimbaughPosted by: Mike | November 29, 2007 at 02:31 PM
“Well that depends on what color you are.”
Ditto….
Signed,Rush Limbaugh
Note: Poster is black.
Q: What is red and white and goes “Ho – Ho – Ho!”
A: Trailer trash meth freak after he just cooked up a batch beckoning his wife.
The War on Christmas . . . what an insane crock.
Only the right-wing haters could have come up with that one.
Still no “War on Thanksgiving” or “War on the Fourth of July”?
Why don’t we libs hate them too?
Give them time Capn. they will come up with something. They already think that all libs are “unpatriotic”. So, the “War on the Fourth of July” has already started. Yet they are the ones that bill the troops that have lost limbs, eyesight, etc. for their signing bonus back. When are we going to get a thread on that? Or is it the ugly secret nobody likes to talk about?
Mike a scary thought for you: The same government that you Hillarycare freaks want to trust national health care to are the ones billing these unfortunates. The gov is so big that the right hand has trouble knowing what the left hand is doing.
Doesn’t that put the fear into you?
Please post KSGRM where I have supported Hillary or her healthcare plan. If you cannot find such a post, I will accept your apology.
As for your statement regarding how big the government is….isn’t the right wing the party of smaller government? Has the right not been in control for a while? Have the dem’s expanded government in the last 12 mos? Righties are quick to say how government does not work…..then they take office and prove it.
What should put fear into you is the extreme executive power that this president has given the office. That same power will be in different hands soon. Want some “gay, embryo eating, welfare case” reading your email and listening to your phone calls?
My profound apologies. I had you confused with another poster. I would never have done that intentionally.
Accepted.
I will make a prediction: I will likely attend midnight Mass Christmas eve. And, for another year, I will NOT get arrested for it.
NO NOT THE XXX IT WAS THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE AS REFERENCED BY THE WE
chicagotribune.com
“The PC police have never met a holiday that didn’t offend. Halloween fosters Satanism, disparages Wiccans and promotes tooth decay. Valentine’s Day marginalizes singles. Thanksgiving glorifies overindulgence and glosses over the ugly chapters of the Pilgrim-Indian story.
But Christmas has always gotten the worst of it. The campaign to put Christ back in Christmas was followed by the campaign to take Him back out and celebrate “the holidays” instead. The annual Christmas pageant is now “Winterfest,” and the nativity is not allowed on public property. The threshold for too much political correctness was finally breached this month in Ft. Collins, Colo., where a civic task force recommended that red and green lights be banned from the city’s holiday display on the grounds that they’re too religious. On Tuesday, the City Council thumped the recommendation, 6-1. Ho, ho, ho!”
Capn, doesn’t your statement prove that it is only the religious holidays they are out to destroy.
I once knew a guy who used to say, In the war against Christmas, Christmas won.
“Do the research Doug. It saves you from backing down I have found.” -ksgrm
Yeah, the problem is that I did the research before you opened your big mouth and the facts haven’t changed.
http://www.coloradoan.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007711210352
I agree. I am 100% opposed to religion being forced on people in the public arena but the war on Christmas has got to stop. It really makes the people doing it look stupid. So what if the Salvation Army is a “religious” organization! You do not have to put a dime into the bellringer’s bucket. I gladly choose to do so however and when stores like Target ban them as part of the War On Christmas, I don’t shop there. Have not set foot in a Target store for 3 years now. And the holiday between Chirstmas and New Years is NOT “winter break”. It is CHRISTMAS pure and simple. And if I see another “holiday tree”, I think I will puke. If folks are offended by Christmas, they DO need to get a life!
“”"The Supreme Court caused this crap several years back, when it allowed religious displays on public property so long as it was mixed (”let’s throw a menorah in there!”), and included “secular symbols” (reindeer, etc.). A Supremely stupid idea. Lawrence Tribe put it best (paraphrasing from memory): “Government can endorse religion now, so long as it meets the approval of the interior decorators on the Supreme Court.”"”"
It was a good decision. Government should be totally neutral towards religion. If they are going to allow a manger scene then they should allow the Jews, Muslims and whatever else to put things up too.
We’d all be better off if we boycotted Walmart, Target, etc. and made our own Xmas presents. I’m sick of supporting China and other countries with oppressive governments with our business and our jobs.
Don’t buy it unless it’s TOTALLY made in the USA! It’s not easy but I’m giving it my best shot this Xmas.
” I am 100% opposed to religion being forced on people in the public arena but the war on Christmas has got to stop. ”
You do realize that Christians celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday right?
HOw about the rest of us who didn’t grow up with a religion that celebrated Christmas….how about the rest of us who were sick of having it shoved down our throats? Made to act as if we were crazy for not celebrating Christmas?
If there was ever a war on Christmas, it was started by the ones trying to instill their religion on everyone else, not the other way around.
If Target doesn’t want to allow religious groups to exploit their shoppers, they have the right and I will shop there. Moreso than Walmart who makes a killing off of you.
YOu really have no idea how sucky it was to be a kid at Christmastime who didn’t celebrate it. Being made to leave the classroom, teachers making a big production out of it too, and then acting all distainfully to you- and the kids followed suit. I’m thrilled with the holiday tree.
How about we give all schoolkids the whole month of December off so they can celebrate the holiday of their choosing…in their OWN HOMES where religion belongs.
That should about cover all the big ones anyway.
Hey Rhonda Holman, I thought “dumb” was not appropriate anymore when addressing something which is not reasonable or less than normal?
Isn’t that offensive to certain human beings? Deaf and dumb?
Maybe you should use stupid.
It seems to me that it is the anti-liberal right wing, and people like O’Reilly who start this stupid Christmas fight every year… Why doesnt somebody go after THOSE idiots??
And, just for the record, the Salvation Army is a Protestant Denomination (Headquarters in Chicago) Started life in England, and exported to the States many decades ago.
They do some very meaningful work, but, they ARE a Protestant Denomination. I have a feeling that if the Lutherans, or Methodists (ooops United Methodists) did something of that sort, they also would be turned down by any number of retail outlets.
But, even so, there are many other charitable organizations at work during this very special Season of the year.
Oh, and one more thing… It IS a Holiday Season… There are Jewish holidays in this Season… And some other non-christian holidays as well, such as Saturnalia, and some others…
So, it really IS appropriate to say “Happy Holidays” That includes all of them… And nobody is left out!! Even the atheists benefit from the “holidays” when they get time off of work, which in many nations is called “holiday”
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! FRUELICHE WEINACHTEN!! MELI KELIKIMAKA!! BON NATALE!! FELIZ NAVIDAD!!JOYEAUX NOEL!! MOEGLICHE WINTERZEIT!! HAPPY YULE TIDE!! AND OF COURSE, A TOAST TO BACCHUS!!
AND, THE BEST OF ALL: MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
*** Note: I did not include Kwanza, since it is not a religious “Holi(Holy)day”
Chas you are such a chump.
It is perfectly fine to wish people Merry Christmas!
And that is exactly what I will continue to do.
Your little comment on Kwanza brought a rolling of the eyes from my black significant other.
It’s silly Chas, really.
But it probably pumps you up and gives the ole ego a stroke.
Gotta look smart this time of year if you are pretending to be a Christian Reverend!
So, Merry Christmas Chas.
Good nightAnd truly,God Bless!
Jesus is your savior, right?
BTW, I wish all a Merry Christmas in SIX languages, including English — And between Christmas and the rest, It really is a time for Happy Holidays… And Christmas, as I said above, is the best one of all!!
I do wish people would learn how to read, before they learn ridicule, and worthless posting!!
Ummm Kev, actually, Dec. 25 – Jan. 6, is Christmas (The TWELVE Days of Christmas?) It has a special Season all of its own. The time before Dec. 25, beginning this year on Dec. 2, is the Season called Advent… the Season of Prepration.
Just thought I’d throw that in… :-)
Unbelievable. You people will absolutely argue about ANYTHING. It is Christmas time, people. Remember the kids? Remember when you were kids? Whether it was Santa and elves and reindeer, or babies in mangers and immaculate conceptions, come xmas morning it’s all about watching the kids tear thru packages like Emmit Smith thru linebackers.
Oh yea, there are some groups of Christians… who wouldnt even think of decorating for Christmas before Dec. 25, the FIRST Day of Christmastide… In fact, those folks celebrate Christmas on Jan. 6, the Day of Epiphany… They are the Greek, and Eastern Orthodox Christians… and oh, myyy WHAT a Feast of Christmas they have, too!! Fabulous!!
Oh yea, Carlos… just like in that terribly funny movie, “The Christmas Story” with Ralphie and the Red Ryder B-B Gun!! I remember all of that wrapping paper!!
In fact, in my parishes, we observe something I have been calling “Wrinkled Wrappings” Where we all bring some wrapping paper to the first service after Christmas, and we bring it to the front of the Sanctuary, and leave it there… As a symbol that we have had a great festival, and we remember it, but we move on to growth in the year ahead. It can be pretty powerful!!
The United States has always been a predominately Christian nation. It has been and is our strength and what has held our culture together. Shared values. Even non-believers shared the basic Christian concepts of right and wrong.
Now, forces of evil are attempting to turn us against one another. The secularist atheist movement is claiming equivalency with that which which has made this country great. They say there is no standard of right and wrong. They say that each person determines what is right and wrong. Moral relativism.
If we are to survive as a nation, we must win the culture war. The forces of righteousness must arise and take back this country. We can not allow atheists and liberals to turn this country into a replica of godless Europe. They are trying to use the courts to accomplish what they cannot do by will of the people. We must insist on the appointment of strict constructionist judges. Protect the unborn and the aged. All life is sacred.
Win the culture war. Crush the pornographers and those who would degrade the morals of our children. Don’t compromise and never never never give in. Stand up for what is right in God’s eyes so that God may continue to bless the U.S.A.
Ummm Kev, actually, Dec. 25 – Jan. 6, is Christmas Just thought I’d throw that in… :-)Posted by: Chas.
Chas you lie. You put your own ego above God’s Word!Actually, Jesus Christ was not born anywhere near December/January. We use the Gregorian calendar which was adopted and decreed by Pope Gregory XIII, for whom it was named, on 24 February 1582 via the papal bull Inter gravissimas.
Jesus Christs birth was foretold IN THE WORD and IN THE STARS. The alignment of planets and stars foreTOLD his birth. Think about this. How else did THREE WISEMEN travel across a desert in ancient times – and arrive AT THE BIRTH!! To see the child in the manger?!!(No garmin/no email/no interstate)They followed the stars!!!!!! As foretold (they are for times and seasons, the moon and stars).
(And shepards are not in the field in the winter season. They are only out in the fields with their flocks during the warm season – big duh!)
December 25th. Where did that come from? Paganism. Mostly from the catholics. In Rome they worshipped many gods before Christ revealed Christianity. Christmas in NO WHERE in the bible.
I could go on and get into some very serious bible verses to support this. But the point is: It is not important what specific DAY Christ was born – only that we remember and believe it.
It’s not for the glory of Chas or Pat – but for you.
The celebration in late december that Christmas came from is the winter solstice. The ancients knew the sun, moon, stars, and planets. They didn’t have channel 6 news. No TV. No PC. They lived and worshipped their gods base upon the world around them. Solstice and equonox are big days for them!
The winter solstice was called the winter nativity of the Sun! THe sun-gods from Osiris to Jupiter and Mithra celebrated their birthdays!
In Rome, it was konwn as Saturnailia – Saturnd being another name for Nimrod (Tammuz).
Long story very short (very), the pagans became Christians but adopted and modified their existing cultural events into their Christian beliefs.
Ohhh there is so much more to share with you!!!
The Christmas Tree? We all know it has jack shit to do with Christ. Right? An old Babylonish fable: Semiramis, the mother of Tammuz, claimed that overnight, an evergreen tree sprang up from a dead tree stump. The stump symbolized her dead husband Nimrod. The new tree symbolized that Nimrod had come to life again!!!
Eventually, the Scandinavian god Woden or Odin was believed to bestow special GIFTS at Yuletide to thos ewho honored him.
It’s all common sense and nothing mysterious.
Chas needs to stop putting his ego before God’s quest for all who seek the Truth to Know the Truth.
Anything less is serving the fallen one.
Well, well then you just go celebrate Christmas whenever you want, you lying freak… And I will celebrate it with the rest of the world!!
I think the war on Christmas is stupid, if you don’t like the traditions, then don’t celebrate it. I think the War on Santa Claus is a worth while cause. Just think, if we could get rid of this Santa Claus we wouldn’t have to be obligated to buy more than a couple presents. I don’t know about other people, but 30% of the presents in my family are from Santa, its a little costly and I don’t get the credit.
And here I thought Armstrongism and the British Israel movement was dead and buried!! Pat, I cant argue with anything you said… The early church simply decided to celebrate the Nativity of the SON when their pagan neighbors were celebrating the nativity of the sun…. You can argue for weeks as to when Christ was born… And, ummm actually, the Bible does do Christmas… once in Luke and once in Matthew… You might try reading it some time!!
As for the “evergreen” tree?? A symbol of the Everlasting Life of Christ… So, I guess you can stop making fun of that one…
Pat, you have made a total mockery of ALL of the current day celebration of the birth of Christ, in favor of your two bit ultra right wing bull crap about how we shouldnt even celebrate Christmas!!
That is as BAD as these other rightie tighties who think the world is trying to take Christmas away from them… From what you post here, YOU are the one who wants to take Christmas away from the Christians of the world… YOU want to debunk all of the Christmas traditions…. YOU want to challenge it as non Christian garbage….
YOU, PAT HERRON, are the Grinch trying to steal Christmas from the right wingers who think you are their “friend on the blog”
YOU PAT HERRON are the antithesis of everything Christmas is meant to be!!
YOU PAT HERRON, ARE THE EMBODIMENT OF THE KIND OF EVIL THAT WANTS TO PUT ITSELF IN THE SPOTLIGHT OF THE WORLD, BY DEBUNKING THE TRADITIONS OF THE WORLD!!
GO FIND YOUR BRIDGE, TROLL!!!
TAKE YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHER WITH YOU!!
You should know Wahawk… Your buddy Pat just debunked nearly every Christmas Tradition that has ever been!!
And what do I say?? THE BEST OF ALL IS MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
YOU PAT HERRON, ARE THE EMBODIMENT OF THE KIND OF EVIL THAT WANTS TO PUT ITSELF IN THE SPOTLIGHT OF THE WORLD, BY DEBUNKING THE TRADITIONS OF THE WORLD!!
GO FIND YOUR BRIDGE, TROLL!!!
TAKE YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHER WITH YOU!!
Posted by: Chas. | November 29, 2007 at 11:28 PM
Nuts.
You go for it, Pagan!! Celebrate your festival the best way you know how!!
And now the sock puppet ballet, and the dance of the sugar plum fairies!! starring the sock puppets of the WEBlog!!
Nite all!! Go talk to yourselves, and have a good play time!!
Chas is a sock puppet.
Pat, you have made a total mockery of ALL of the current day celebration of the birth of Christ, in favor of your two bit ultra right wing bull crap about how we shouldnt even celebrate Christmas!! Chas
Settle down Chas. I believe Romans 10:9-10. I believe that His birth is important – but MORE important than the commercial celebration and lies surrounding todays’ event.
Anyone, can validate the pagan information I have posted. ANyone can do a web search.
Common sense should come to play. Come on Chas – we use the calendar which was not adopted until the 1500’s!!! No one sat down and moved Christ’s birth date to it.
It is important to separate God Word of Truth – from the celebrations we use to celebrate the same.
God wants us to know the Truth. We must, if we truly want to know Him.
True Christianity demands it. Everything else, including the Christmas Tree (please check the scandinavian background) is just flash and bang. It is the Shock and Awe.
It is NOT Christ and is NOT required to worship him.
Only the truth. Romans 10:9-10.
Chas, I know I hurt your feelings, but I cannot play when you lie and the truth is not in you. God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him, but walk in darkness – we lie.
Please Chas. Check the details. Any poster can Google some of the key words I’ve posted.
It may change what you THINK you know about the birth of Christ. But it does not effect your belief or relationship with Him.It is NOT a sin to know the truth.
It is a great relief to finally know the truth!
Give’s you much MORE to be thankful for and celebrate!!!
Chas: Tradition is what Jesus Christ came here to end. He fulfilled the law (traditions of the jewish people) and set us free.
Tradition: Look it up. It is no surety for truth.
It makes us feel good, but it is not God, it is not his Word, and it is not his Son.
Come on Chas@! Charlie Brown XMAS is a tradition now. So is the Grinch. It’s a Wonderful Life is tradition. So are holiday lights, Christmas Trees, Stockings and Santa Claus.
But none of that is Jesus Christ.
Tradition does NOT get your ticket punched into heaven.
Romans 10: 9-10 do. And the truth worshipped in truth.
Anything else is shock and awe.
God Bless you!
There are some incredibly crazy people posting on this thread.
You know who you are. But then again, being crazy, maybe you don’t.
Night.
Chas you’re going to have to show me too where the Bible does Xmas. I’m actually, sadly, with Pat on this one.
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.
“The United States has always been a predominately Christian nation. It has been and is our strength and what has held our culture together. Shared values. Even non-believers shared the basic Christian concepts of right and wrong. ”
Christians do not own the concept of right and wrong. People had a feel for it long before Christianity came about. The US is a nation based on religious FREEDOM, not Christianity.
I can understand your puking. I’ve earned it.
But when someone states that they know the date of Christ’s birth – when scholars around the world have debated it for decades, I have to call it as I see it. A lie.
I tried to post the background, the Gregorian Calendar we didn’t adopt until 15 centuries later, to no avail.
Hopefully, he will show you the versus you need to see. I am praying he is man enough to admit there is truth out there – and it isn’t held in the palm of one believers hand.
The traditions of Christmas – are not Christmas.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/11/dumb-new-fronts.html#comment-91780986
“It was a good decision. Government should be totally neutral towards religion. If they are going to allow a manger scene then they should allow the Jews, Muslims and whatever else to put things up too.”
Kev: Do you realize how many different religions there are in the U.S.? Would this egalartarian sentiment extend to any religion that demanded a piece of the pie? Would there even be enough room? How about a Satanist display? How about Raelian? Scientology? Or are just POPULAR religions entitled to government endorsement?
How about lack of belief, i.e. atheism? It’s not exactly a religion, but it’s a metaphysical stance. The Council of Secular Humanism could put up a Santa figurine wearing one of its t-shirts!
Have I made my point yet?
True neutrality is Jefferson’s “wall of separation” between church and state. I suspect what you’re endorsing is probably pseudo-neutrality, more along the lines of a exclusionary union-of-faiths.
Religious freedom should be zealously guarded, and you plainly cannot have freedom of religion without freedom FROM religion. That’s just common sense.
“Rage” –
The Constitution of the United States of America, including the Bill of Rights, goes to great lengths to specify that religion is not an issue when it comes to governing this republic.
Religion is as out-of-place in how government should operate as a place-kicker would be in a baseball game.
Baseball has no moral objection to field goal kickers; thet’re simply not applicable to the situation at hand. It doesn’t mean that a field goal kicker can’t play 2nd base in a baseball game; it’s just that kicking a ball isn’t relevant.
God love Christianists for their fervor; that’s His job. But their religious passion simply is not an element to the rules of the game as specified by the Constitution of the United States of America.
However your religious faith shapes your life and actions, for good or for ill, it’s simply not applicable to how this government is designed to operate. You get no extra points because you believe in Jesus or Joseph Smith or Bonzo the Sun God.
So some of you still think christmas is a religious holiday? I hate to tell you, but christmas was co-opted by the retailers more than 150 years ago, much the same way the christians stole it from the Romans.
Yeah, MH, ya’d think the concept–keep government out of religion, and religion out of government–would be simple enough.
I guess not.
PMom — There is the wonderful poetry ascribed to Mary the Mother of Jesus in Luke 1, called the “Magniicat” VERY much a statement of the political scene not just of THAT time frame, but of many since… Then there is the infamous Christmas Gospel narrative, Luke 2:1-20…
And the “other” Christmas Gospel, that takes a different socio-religious viewpoint in Matthew 1 – 2. That story culminates in the Wisemen bringing gifts to the child Jesus who would have been approximately 2 yrs. old at that point… But it records the Birth of Christ as well…
THAT PMom and PAT is Christmas in the Bible… Christmas is, after all, the story of the Birth of Christ…
PAT — AS I SAID TO YOU ALREADY… I HAVE NOT POSTED ANYTHING AS TO THE DATE FOR THE BIRTH OF CHRIST… WHAT I DID SAY IS THAT WE CELEBRATE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST IN DECEMBER (AND FOR ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS ON INTO JANUARY 6 – EPIPHANY) THAT IS THE TIME FRAME WHEN THE WORLD OBSERVES THE BIRTH OF CHRIST…
THAT DOES IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, STATE THE DATE OF THE BIRTH OF CHRIST!!! THAT ACTUAL DATE HAS BEEN DEBATED FOR CENTURIES!!
SO FOR YOU TO CONTINUE TO CALL ME A LIAR FOR SOMETHNG I DID NOT SAY IS, TO SAY THE LEAST DISINGENUOUS! I THINK AN APOLOGY OF SOME SORT IS IN ORDER HERE…
Hope that helps ya out there PMom!!
RAGE — Until you can get that certain segment of folks to get un-brainwashed, that we live in a Nation founded on Christian Principles… You are going to keep on having to deal with the mental midgetry of those who want to insist that they are right!!
As we ALL know, there is NO mention of GOD, or of JESUS, or of CHRIST, or CHRISTIAN, or of BIBLE in the entirety of the United States Constitution!!
But does that have any power of persuasion to these blasted re-constructionist, theocrats??? NO!!
They have re-written history, so that they totally forget to remember that those who FOUNDED this great nation DID SO to escape from religious tyranny, and the kind of theocracy that governed merry old England, from whom we fought for our independence!!
IF you can figure out how to de-program these folks, THEN perhaps we can get this country moving in a progressive manner once again!!
Note: I think I mixed a ksgrm post up with a Kansas post earlier.
My bad.
Oh well: My point still stands.
My point is this- Christmas has been a part of this country for 200 years. It has been celebrated by millions of people as CHRISTMAS. Nobody if forcing anybody to celebrate it in a religious way and many people don’t. I am just saying that the folks trying to turn it into something it is not need to get a life. Myself I don’t care that much for Christmas or Thanksgiving for that matter. But why people get offended by holidays is beyond me.
Chas I read the verses and I still see nothing in there that says we should celebrate Christmas.
Obviously they’d have put something in there in reference. Passover, it is written very specifically that we are to do this in rememberence.
PMom — Ummm I never SAID there was anything in the Bible about Celebrating Christmas… I was responding to a statement made that there is no Christmas in the Bible!! Pat then twisted it to the point where you jumped in… Sorry if you misunderstood what was going on there…
Actually, the Church in history didnt formally celebrate the Birth of Christ until the late 4th or early 5th Century… The earliest liturgies were, like Lent/Easter, best termed as drama, or re-enactment of Gospel narratives… Due to the socio/political climate of that time frame, the Luke Gospel was the preferred drama format, since the “eastern” peoples were hostile to the Christians of the 4th/5th Centuries, as well as the developing split between the Roman Church and the Church in Constantinople. Hope that helps some!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAckfn8yiAQ
Don’t woose out. Don’t be politically correct. It’s called Christmas with a capital C.
statement made that there is no Christmas in the Bible! ChasActually, the Church in history didnt formally celebrate the Birth of Christ until the late 4th or early 5th Century.Chas
Well I’m glad to see you came to your senses Chas. You agree – there is biblical significance to Dec 25th, which was my opinion all along.
It is a “tradition”. Tradition is NOT truth, nor God inspired (God didn’t say Christmas on Dec 25th).
You also agree it is not the January date you posted.
You also can see I never said anything “bad” about Christmas and only pointed out that the Dec 25th date doesn’t mean squat.
You came unglued and very uncivil, I might add, and reverted to name calling and caps.
I won’t ever get an apology, but the truth of God’s written and revealed word is what counts!
John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
God Bless!
there is biblical significance
Should read there is NO biblical significance
I don’t care what you call it; if it’s a day off work with pay you can call it anything you desire. It’s still just another day and has no real meaning.
yOURE RIGHT Pat… you wont get an apology, because there is nothing in what I said to apologize for!! Nobody is forcing you to celebrate Christmas… I never said the Bible said Christmas was Dec. 25, or any other date… I simply told you when we celebrate it… aand that the celebraation DOES have significance, and biblical as well… since it is the celebration of the Birth of Christ…
Now WHERE you manage to find a DATE in there, is beyond me..
SO… no apologies… and I am NOT arguing with you about this matter any more… Got it??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAckfn8yiAQ
Don’t woose out. Don’t be politically correct. It’s called Christmas with a capital C.
Posted by: outlander | November 30, 2007 at 09:06 AM
Thanks outlander, enjoyed it. :)
Out that was good.
Chas what is some ways have become very pagan decorations symbolizes something special for Christians. Those who only see the decorations and the shopping frenzy and think that is Christmas aren’t in the least celebrating the real Christmas anymore that the egg hunt on the front lawn of the White House are celebrating Easter.
This is where I think the PC crowd is missing the boat. They are painting with a broad brush what those who only see the worldy trimming as religious see.
I and many others celebrate Christmas and Easter in our own way. The date isn’t important. The gift giving is what it is about. The decorations don’t matter. The event celebrated is important to us.
All this to say that I don’t feel the need to apologize to anyone for my belief about these holidays. I say don’t put the nativity on public property but to say lights can only be white, and trees can’t be put on University property, etc.. is the radical left trying to inject their will in a non-controversy.
Ummm Ksgrm — That was my entire point upthread… There are apparently some who think since we dont have an exact date, we shouldnt do Christmas!! That is most unfortunate!!
Ksgrm – and others – let me wish you and your a very merry Christmas. To some other friends I will send wishes for a Happy Hannukah. And for still others a Joyous Solstice.
Ummm Ksgrm — That was my entire point upthread… There are apparently some who think since we dont have an exact date, we shouldnt do Christmas!! That is most unfortunate!!
Posted by: Chas. | November 30, 2007 at 12:51 PM
Twist and turn Chas. I never said that. Ever. I pointed out to you, that the traditions of an American Christmas, as much of the world also protrays them – have zero connection with the birth of Christ.
In other words, it is not strictly a Christian celebration and not a separation issue. It is a commercial celebration. Only to those of a certain faith – are acknowledging the birth (which didn’t happen on Dec 25th).
Try twisting my posts all you want. Anyone with integrity can read through them and see what was posted.
Let me put it another way.
Chas was pushing the Christmas festivities as all the Who’s down in Whoville – an enjoyable and exciting affair! Very nice, pretty, and fun for all.
All I am saying, is those traditions are not what Christ was about nor did he partake.
I am the Grinch, who’s heart grew 10 sizes too big – based upon the true meaning of Christmas.
Who cares what day. And Chas in his first post included dates. Now he is weasling out.
Thanks Ben and may this Holiday season be your best ever. Gotta love those grandkids this time of year.
Grandkids – yep, THAT’s what it’s all about!
Pat you best SHOW where I included a date for Christ’s birth… Because I did no such thing… Why cant you just let it drop!! Everybody saw how you debunked the celebrations of Christmas that we do… and you are still debunking it!! Geez, nobody who was involved in the first 8 nights of what is called Hanukah ever took part in it AFTER it happened either!! Go after those folks for a while…
i am in the midst of some good Christmas celebrations tonite, and I dont intend to let your stupid insistence on something I never said get in my way!!
Go have some good old eggnog, and celebrate the season, Ebenezer!!
The Spokane Public Schools’ list of “important dates” didn’t include Christmas, although Hanukkah, Human Rights Day, winter break, the Islamic holy day Eid al-Adha, first day of winter and Kwanzaa all made the list. “It was absolutely an error of omission,” district spokeswoman Terren Roloff said. “In our efforts to be inclusive, we missed the obvious.”[Right. No anti-Christian bias here, folks. Just stupidity.]
I can see why they might not have included “Christmas Day” in their list, since Christmas is already included (though not mentioned specifically) in the “winter break” notation… So, yes, it could be seen as an accidental ommission… Do you ever make mistakes Parkay??? or are you always totally perfect??
BTW, Parkay, the list doesnt include Presidents Day, Labor Day, or MLK Day either… What biases would you think caused those ommissions?? Anti-presidential bias?? Anti Labor bias?? Anti Black Leadership bias?? Dont jump to conclusions like that… there may not be a ledge close by when make such a jump!! LOL
What I am always curious about, if 88pct of Americans believe in God, and the vast majority of those are Christians, who exactly is it that is oppressing Christians. This all powerful, hateful, intolerant, 12pct?
The Blog…Under The Christmas Tree.
Have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year and may Santa Clause find each and everyone of you.
“kansas1946″ –
Please don’t try to bring reason into any WEBlog discussion of religion. The fundies can’t handle it.
What’s ironic is, far from being more faithful, fundamentalists (of every religion) demonstrate their abject fear they might be wrong.
Think about it. If God or Allah or Bonzo the Sun God is, in fact, *the* one true omnipotent omniscient Master of the Universe, He doesn’t need to worry about heretics or blasphemers. He’s bigger than that and nothing’s gonna change that. Ah, but if He’s vulnerable to non-believers, He’s not qualifed for the job.
Fundies fear the the non-believers might be right.
But if what they have is fear, let them have it. Ignore what they try to share (and sometimes stuff down your throat!). Let them have their fear. Go peacefully.
The “holiday season” is NOT Christmas. Christmas Season with Santa Clause is Christmas and although some others try to tear down Christmas and “horn in” with their “deal” by trying to change the name of our Christmas, can all take a FF.
We loyal Americans have no interest in your “deal” so stay away from our Christmas and we’ll stay away from your “deal.” And stop trying to be such an annoying disruptive pain in the ass.
Ed – the celebration in mid-winter using a decorated evergreen tree was stolen. In fact, there are prohibitione in the Bible against doing these things.
Let’s just cut out all the songs that have Christmas in them, any reference to Christmas, no such thing as Christmas vacation and then see how much the anti-Christmas people whine.
CHRIST in Christmas is only reason for celebrating that day and it is the domain of the Christians.
So let’s challenge any one in court the right to use the word Christmas in any manner if they are not Christian.
Sorry, feeling ’snarky’ as the Libs like to say. :)
As I said; loyal Americans have their Christmas and its none of your business. How we go about running the show, how much “religion” is or isn’t a part of it, or any aspect, tradition, or conduct, our christmas belongs to America.
Butt-Out, along with all your stupid unwanted opinions or arguments.
It Texas we say: “git; you and the horse you rode up on.”
This loyal American can both with you a Merry Christmas AND with others Happy Holidays, Happy Hannukah, Joyous Solstice, etc.
Well, do all “that” while you’re being “water boarded.”
The PC crowd seems to do something stupid every year. The Ft. Collins example is one of the heights of insanity, trying to regulate the color of the lights along with what type of decoration is “appropriate”. At least the city council had the brains to reject the recommendation of the committee. Hopefully next time they use common sense instead of spending tax-payer money on some dopey committee.
“Happy Holidays” is unAmerican.
It was designed to tear down American Tradition and Culture.
Merry Christmas is a loyal American Greeting based in and on long standing American tradition and Culture.
When in Rome….
I guess Ed must have been in another country when people used the phrase over the past 40 years or so.
It was only when the “war on Christmas” crowd went ape that it even became an issue!
“Happy Holidays” is unAmerican.
It stinks.
“Merry Christmas” makes people feel better…try it…it works.
I am no longer comfortable with “Merry Christmas”.
I think it happened in between the time I found out the early Christians hijacked the holiday…
I could have dealt with that.
….and when the latter day Christians started shouting UNDER GOD! when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.
It just feels phony somehow. I’m not good at phony.
I’m not mean about it. Someone says it I just smile and say, “you too.”
JR, That’s sad…
There’s that smell again…