Many Wichitans have a love-hate relationship with downtown: They wish Wichita’s downtown offered more things to do, but also fewer parking tickets and traffic hassles. A healthy core means a healthy city, though — a view held by 86 percent of respondents to the Wichita Downtown Development Corp.’s latest survey, up 10 points in two years. Slowly but surely, the group’s surveys are showing that people in the community recognize the new life in downtown and realize there is more to come. One result that Sedgwick County officials can hope is reversible, if parking is addressed properly — that 42 percent said the downtown arena project was not good for the community.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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25 Comments
THE BEST WAY TO ACHIEVE A HEALTHY DOWNTOWN WICHITA WOULD BE TO CANCEL THE UNWANTED, UNNEEDED DOWN TOWN WHITE ELEPHANT ARENA-BOONDOGLE … QUICKLY BEFORE EVEN BIGGER BILLS BEGIN TO ARRIVE FOR ELECTRICITY, NATURAL GAS, INSURANCE AGAINST GLASS BREAKAGE, ETC., ETC.
That would mean that 58% agreed that the downtown arena project is GOOD for the city and downtown Wichita.
Looks like it wins again. Because the majority wants it and it is needed.
Parking issues? Well, how about more emphasis on public transportation as well. The main station can, and should be, the hub of the revitalised downtown. A system of park-and-ride?
Also for the outdoor enthusiasts, maybe a nice pedestrian corridor can be incorporated, lined with stores and cafés.
Wichita is, at best, a third-tier city. It’s never gonna be a New York or LA, it’s not a Kansas City or Memphis.
Wichita competes for concerts, for Ringling Bros. Circus, and touring shows like “The Texas Chainsaw Massacre…On Ice!” with other third-tier cities such as Fargo and Boise. For better or worse, those cities have modern arenas. Just to keep in the eco-devo game, Wichita needs to keep up with the competition.
Or, perhaps, Wichitans need to get honest with themselves and realize Wichita isn’t the largest city in Kansas, it’s the biggest small town in the state.
Perhaps half-a-dozen neighborhood fitness centers/pools/gyms would better serve Wichita’s way of life than a central arena.
Why shouldn’t every high school state championship game be played in Wichita? For the cost of the arena, several football fields and basketball, volleyball, track and field facillities could attract every young athlete in the state to what is pretty much a centralized location. Same with theatre and band competitions. In Kansas, Wichita could be a big deal, perhaps.
‘Cause nothing’s gonna make Wichita a big deal anywhere else.
Century 11 was never a success, so lets build another one only bigger and more expensive and get some big promoter to manage it. People don’t come to Wichita or Kansas. Wouldn’t want to walk downtown without armed security protection let alone shop and be carrying bags of purchases.
I believe the town has spoken. The arena has been voted on and approved. Like it or not, it will happen.
As someone who has been on the losing side before, I didn’t get hateful or disrespectful, I made the best of it. I tried it their way. You never know, they might be right. If they were right, admit their way was better, if not then we have a lesson learned. Not only in our town but everywhere when the minority loses they seem to get more and more hateful towards the majority.
Wichita is relatively a very young city. I love the assholes who put it down by trying to compare it to other cities, because they have no clue what they are talking about.
There was people settling into the Memphis area 1796. Kansas City 1821, no settlers came to Wichita until 1867. LA, your talking about the 1500’s, and New York 1624.
Just think if Wichita had a 50 year jump start or even 70 like Memphis. It’s all relative, but we deserve our community pride and optimism and if the majority of our fellow community members wants to move forward in what the naysayers call “only for big city” projects, then it shall go forward.
Look at any of the historical population stats, and Wichita is gearing up faster than any of the cities you previously mentioned, in historic terms.
In 1920, Kansas City, KS was the largest city in Kansas with a population of 101,177 and ranked No. 67 largest city. (Ranking of 75 largest cities). Wichita wasn’t on the list.
In 1940, Kansas City, KS 121,458 a drop to 69th place, Wichita made it on the list at rank 74 with a population of 114,966.
By 1960, Kansas City, KS dropped off the list and to this current day, their population only got up to 146,867, when Wichita in 1960 when up to 51st rank with a population of 254,698.
Let’s look at a city you can say comparable to Wichita. Let’s say Des Moines, with a 25 year jump start on us.
Des Moines in 1920 had a population 126,468, ranked 52nd. Good explosive growth for them. On their way to becoming a very large city. By 1940, 159,819. Still a good 50,000+ larger than Wichita and growing very well. By 1960, 208,962. Doing well, but Wichita surpassed it by this decade. By 2000, Des Moines dropped off the list and now only has a population of 198,862. Wichita is almost twice the size of it now.
I can give you more stats if you like.
If you hate Wichita, honestly, just leave. I can’t stand negative people, because it’s their live’s ambition to be pessimistic and negative and to drag everybody else down with them.
Just wallow in your shit and leave everybody else out.
In the 1920 census, Wichita and Dallas were about the same size.
envio – learn to read. You calim that “58% agreed that the downtown arena project is GOOD” when in fact only 34% think it is GOOD. From the survey:
“Responding to the effect of a downtown arena on the community, 42 percent said it was not at all good or not very good for the community. Thirty-four percent said it was somewhat or very good while 20 percent were neutral.”
Most of the people I know that voted for the arena didn’t do it because they liked the idea of the arena. They felt they were forced to vote for it by the threat of taxes being raised to renovate the coliseum if they didn’t.
Even with the bullying and extortion employed by the pro arena crowd, the arena was only barely approved by the voters.
Dallas, Texas had a population of 158,976 in 1920, number 42 largest US City in that time.
Fort Worth, Texas had 106,402 in 1920, number 65.
Dallas, Texas was founded in 1841. A 26 year jump start.
So Monkey-brains. Looks like you’re wrong.
In 1920, Fort Worth was nothing like the Metroplex that today’s Dallas/Ft. Worth is today.
It was as far away from Dallas as Midland.
So that’s a non-issue.
Wichita was in the Top 100 cities in America in 1920.
Wichita had the oil business. Wichita had the cattle business. Wichita had the grain business. Wichita, unlike Dallas, had an emerging aircraft business. Wichita could’ve turned into something more than Dallas had it not been for the Kansas-ness of its thinking.
We’ve seen it in this forum today. I merely mentioned that most people in America consider Wichita to be a backwater town, and look at the attacks I got.
“Love it or leave it” was the basic theme.
What happened in the 20s was, the people who could have made Wichita a major US city got the same message. They left it, and went to Dallas.
It’s just an observation, people.
Wichitans are not “city” people, they’re simply a lot of “small town” people.
That’s fine. Live with it.
Wichita is Emporia with more stores. Wichita is Hoxie with with more movies playing. Wichita is Chanute with more restaurants. Wichita is Smith Center with more (albeit, not better) football players.
There was a time when Wichita had potential to be an important city in America. Then Stearman sold out, then Coleman sold out, then Cessna sold out, then Beechcraft sold out, then Learjet sold out. then Pizza Hut sold out. Sounds like a town of sell-outs to me.
Wichita is a big small town. With small-town attitudes, small-town prejudices, small-town dreams, and small-town results.
There was a joke going around in the 80s about how the tallest building in Kansas was a Holiday Inn. It was true, but you can imagine what people from out-of-state imagined.
Frankly, I’m unconvinced that an arena in downtown Wichita is the be-all and win-all of success in the 21st Century. But I’ve seen too much small-town prejudice in Wichita to think the town can evolve beyond its third-tier status.
But the attitude of Wichitans is likeley to turn Wichita into the new Winfield. And the entrepreneurial spirit south of town just might make Winfield the new Branson. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that Strother Field could become a more important airport than Wichita “International” in a couple of decades.
I caught a lot of flak earlier today by observing that most of America, if they consider it at all, think of Wichita as a piss-ant city. The reaction I got pretty much proved my point.
The “love it or leave it” people have won. All those who might have made a difference in Wichita, have left.
Enjoy your future, Wichita, as Colby with more malls.
Hey envio – still think 34 equals 58? Gee, back when I took arithmetic 34 was LESS than 42. So, MORE people think the Arena is bad than think it is good. Of course, from someone like you with your foul mouth what else would someone expect.
Neutral is not a negative. It’s an acceptance.
LOL! Winfield? Or are you talking about Wellington? Because of the Casino right? When it’s going to Mulvane? And yeah! A developer is going to build a $100 million dollar development project, in where, oh… 47st and 1-135. Ahhh! Wellington missed out.
Branson doesn’t have an airport. The airport that serves Branson is in Springfield, and they don’t even get half the passenger loads that Wichita does. And yes, Branson is building a small airstrip, it’s terminal building is only going to be less than 45,000 sq.ft, compared to ICT at 200,000, soon to be even larger with a new terminal.
Keep up your bagging on Wichita. And all of you keep supporting the negative people who put Wichita down. I don’t care! It’s your despair and stress that’s making your life a miserable one. Quite frankly! I just don’t give a damn.
The arena?
30 years too late.
It’s bass ackwards logic folks.
You don’t build it and they will show up. You get them to show up and THEN you build it.
Downtown Wichita has fallen into irrelevance all my life. The business moved away to the suburbs with the people. Stupid that. But a common problem across America.
Stop with the sprawl. Deny permits for business on the outskirts. FORCE them to locate downtown if they want to trade here.
“Also for the outdoor enthusiasts, maybe a nice pedestrian corridor can be incorporated, lined with stores and cafés.Posted by: Roo-Ster”
Roo-Ster must be one of the young ones.I remember Downtown when it had those nice pedestrian corridors, incorporated, lined with stores and cafés.What killed Downtown was the indoor suburban malls and of course the free parking.
The best thing for downtown is to fire all of the city council and county commission and bring all new people, oh yea, everyone must be under the age of 30.
All you old ass’s keep spouting how we need to keep young people here, than do it. Put US in power, rather than hogging it and dangling carrots out there for us to grasp at.
Downtown needs more ONE WAY STREETS, more shops and more residential. It also needs more accessible FREE parking. Downtown needs a REMODELED AND EXPANDED CONVENTION CENTER! NOT AN ARENA. It needs a new library, it needs to support the Museum of World Treasures, it needs to support any businesses ALREADY there and tri to bring more in.
Downtown can be revamped correctly but the corruption that runs through county and city needs to be put to an end. That can only be done by a complete cleaning of the house.
Tony: You have many good things in your comments above. So I thought I would add some thoughts.
I particularly noticed your ideas of proposed improvements. That is the first thing that should have been done … let the citizens and taxpayers HONESTLY choose a list of public improvements to be paid for by a sales tax increase. Then it should have been honed, streamlined, questioned, whittled, discussed in the media … and THEN HONESTLY VOTED ON.
A pretense of this was made in the early “visioneering” process. But to my disappointment, it quickly became clear the King of Visioneering with the foghorn voice from Florida (couldn’t stand the cold in Wichita), HENRY LUKE, had an agenda as soon as he arrived in Wichita. He was guided by a few handlers such as lawyer Sorensen, whose offices quickly moved out of downtown … also by out-of-town hired guns including Ed Wolverton, now moved to North Carolina and city and county administrators. These were joined by a few local politicians including the three hold-over county commissioners, Tim Norton, Tom Winters and Dave Unruh.
These few people must have agreed over cocktails somewhere that WICHITA SHOULD HAVE A DOWNTOWN ARENA.
When the discussion came up at the next public “visioneering” meeting, Henry Luke was faced with a hostile crowd who strongly expressed their feelings THAT THEY DIDN’T WANT THE ARENA.
So Henry Luke, master of many “visions and dreams” around the country, looked upward at the ceiling of the church they were meeting in. Lo and behold, a lightening bolt must have struck (I didn’t see it myself) and right, from his stool in front of the hostile crowd, King of Visioneering Henry Luke declared that Wichita should have the white elephant $500,000,000.37 ice hockey arena … regardless of the need, to be paid for by the many, for the benefit of the few.
That’s basically the story as I remember it.
I just noticed an aerial view of the Christmas lights of Kansas City’s beautiful Country Club Plaza shopping district. Those thousands and thousands of twinkling Christmas lights outlining Plaza retail buildings were turned on, traditionally, on the evening before Thanksgiving.
Stunning view for those who might not have seen it.
If you go there, notice some things that make the Country Club Plaza so successful.
No parking meters! No charges for parking! Virtually no stop/go traffic lights except in the most critical intersections! Happy people actually walking in the Plaza all the time, day and evening, enjoying the picturesque scenery covering hundreds of blocks in the area.
Wouldn’t this be great for Wichita?
This was the dream I had when I moved back here to Wichita a few years ago. I wanted to be involved somehow trying to bring this about. But I soon noticed the “visions and dreams” for Wichita were pre-conceived by a small coterie of politicians and out of town hired guns, drawing their salaries, without any real hope of accomplishing anything.
Their plan was simple … don’t do anything to improve downtown OR Wichita OR the rest of Sedgwick County. Rather … draw a boundary around the arena site and spend millions and millions on that. AND THEN LEAVE TOWN AND HOPE THE THEORY, “BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME,” WORKS FOR THE REST OF WICHITA.
IF THAT PLAN DOESN’T WORK, OH WELL, WHAT HAPPENS IN WICHITA, STAYS IN WICHITA. EASY COME, EASY GO. WE TRIED. SEE YA.
Downtown’s biggest obstacle to being truly “healthy”?
That would be a lack of major downtown employers (1000+ employees). Without them, there is no strong core, and downtown is merely an occasional destination for many residents.
Unfortunately the recent trend is for employers to abandon downtown and relocate to the outskirts. This has to change for downtown to grow.
A previous post noted population trends of other cities over time and stated that Wichita is four times the size of Des Moines. While technically true, it’s misleading.
The fact is that the 2006 Des Moines MSA population was 534,000 while Wichita’s was 549,000.
Anyone who knows anything about the two areas knows that the city of Des Moines is locked in by several large suburbs, which has effectively cut off its population growth.
The city of Wichita has no such limitations, and grows freely.
But looking at the downtown areas, Des Moines has 70,000 people that work downtown, a new arena that turns a profit, and many new downtown housing and entertainment options.
As a person that has lived in both cities, I can say that Wichita is a fine city overall, but its downtown really doesn’t compare.
Attempts to “revitalize” the downtown area have been going on for at least five decades, with huge expenditures and no results. Maybe it’s time to just admit that cities develop in donut shapes and turn the center section back to useful farmland or a large park etc., and stop trying to beat a horse that’s been dead for ages.
I don’t think it’s pre-destined that downtown Wichita is going to remain a failure. But I do think downtown Wichita is going to continue its downward spiral if major surgery doesn’t take place.
THIS SURGERY SHOULD INCLUDE:
1) Stop the arena project in its tracks until it can be re-evaluated by the TAXPAYERS who are paying for it.
2) Fire the county manager and city manager and their top staff agents. Nothing personal but I don’t appreciate being threatened and pushed around when I attend public meetings to protest the arena.
Also demand the three holdover county commissioners resign immediately to be replaced by vote of elected precinct committeemen and precinct committeewomen from both parties at caucuses scheduled for the purpose.
3) Put hold on filling the vacancy of supervisor of the Wichita Downtown Development Corporation until this office can be evaluated for effectiveness.
4) Enlist advice of all community organizations to determine what Wichita really needs to be successful.
5) Contrary to comments on this Blog, I do favor the Water Walk project on east side of the Arkansas River in vicinity of Gander Mountain store. I would like to see this project expanded throughout downtown Wichita.
6) Eliminate all parking meters in the downtown area. Stories about the abuse and mis-use of these broken down parking meters on uninformed citizens is legion and has been going on for years. SO WITHOUT FURTHER ADIEU, CANCEL THE PARKING METERS IMMEDIATELY.
7) Blue Ribbon Citizens Committee (not the Visioneering Group) establish a list of projects to be financed with the one cent sales tax proceeds or what remains after stopping the arena project.
8) Form a new take-action group to go after the goals established in #7.
9) Audit all expenditures made from the arena funds.
10) Establish a new positive attitude towards Sedgwick County and Wichita citizens and taxpayers.
Former – in des Moines isn’t the Universty involved in downtown? In particular, isn’t the University an anchor temant in the Arena? Here in Wichita the Arena crowd ignored WSU when the time was ripe for such a cooperative venture. So, we will have a 15,000 seat Arena with ??? as an anchor tenant. Maybe a minor league basketball team? The Nutcases to go along with the Wingnuts?
Ben — Actually university involvement in the downtown arena has been pretty minimal.
Since it’s been open Drake has only played one game there, and Iowa State has hosted two games. Next March Wells Fargo will host first and second round NCAA women’s basketball games.
Right now anchor tenants for the arena include the Iowa Stars hockey team, the Dallas Stars’ top minor league team, and the Iowa Energy, an NBA development league team for the Chicago Bulls and Miami Heat.
Next year an Arena2 football team also moves in.
High school tournament events in wrestling and basketball are huge — all classes have their tournament events at the same time. Wrestling draws over 90,000 fans for the week.
Otherwise the usual assortment of concerts and events — Springsteen, Bon Jovi, Mellencamp, Keith Urban, Paul McCartney, etc., etc.
The first two years of operations at the arena yielded enough profits to cover losses at the attached new convention center — which will probably be expanded soon so they can draw larger events.