If Iraq really was the reason Democrats won control of Congress last year, voters can’t be happy about what’s happened since. Only 1 of more than 40 votes aimed at limiting President Bush’s policy of the war has passed both chambers, and the singular success fell to a Bush veto. Wednesday night, the House passed a bill requiring Bush to start bringing troops home in coming weeks with a goal of ending combat by December 2008, Associated Press reported. But the measure is unlikely to pass the Senate and, if it did, couldn’t overcome a veto.
Then again, maybe voter opinions about Iraq are changing. Polls indicate Americans have a little less gloomy outlook about Iraq, given the successes of the troop surge. According to the Pew Research Center, 44 percent now think the war is going “very†or “fairly†well, the most in the past year.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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66 Comments
“If Iraq really was the reason Democrats won control of Congress last year, voters can’t be happy about what’s happened since.”
No, kidding.
That’s why peoples’ views of Congress are so low.
The libs worked hard to turn out the vote for Dems and we’re repaid with more of the status quo.
Still, it’s better than the Pukes.
Dogsh*t is better than the Pukes.
Makes Ron Paul’s point.
Cap’N,
Indeed. And given that House and Senate Repukes have nothing to offer except filibusters, obstructionism and trivial political games in which they switch sides and vote for Democratic resolutions condemning the Vice-President, they’ve actually provided even more reason to vote in MORE Democrats next year so the both houses of Congress can do the American people’s bidding by getting us out of Iraq.
Democrats are just getting started. Let the generational exile of the Republican Party commence.
Quote from the first link:
““Republicans (including the president) have made real progress in swaying opinion to their side, while 10 months of Democratic efforts have failed to persuade citizens that the war continues to be a disaster,” according to Charles Franklin, a University of Wisconsin political scientist who analyzed public opinion on the nonpartisan Pollster.com.
“The war of partisan persuasion has tilted towards the Republicans and away from the Democrats, at least in this particular aspect.”
The libs worked hard to turn out the vote for Dems and we’re repaid with more of the status quo. Still, it’s better than the Pukes.Dogsh*t is better than the Pukes.
Posted by: CapnAmerica
Capn, I had thoughts of comparing going head first into a crap-house hole to going feet first into a crap-house hole. But you statement that it is the status quo is the same meaning, but now the question is if we are in the crap-house hole despite it being because of Democrats instead of Republicans. Why is it better then the “pukes”? The smell is the same, the feeling is the same, the crap is the same.
We got wall-to-wall talk radio singing the praises of our war. Meanwhile we can use filibuster to block legislation and then blame the Democrats.
How did the Dems. gain “control”of congress when they don’t have enough members to override the veto of GWB? Hasn’t Bush still got control especially when it comes to Iraq? Checks and balances, checks and balances etc…….
Well no screaming eagle shit Rhonda, that’s what I’ve been saying for months.
The dems haven’t ended the war, in fact, there leadership is posed to PROLONG the war (at least until 2013).
And the Capn is finally waking up?If you’d just turn off that tape recorder, the smell would improve.
BTW, worst congress ever: Has yet to finalize the FY 2008 appropriation bills. We are now in mid November. Hello? Anyone home? KNOCK! KNOCK!
We are almost two months into the new fiscal year – without a budget. Continuing resolutions cost us more MONEY!!!
Worst congress ever.
Worst congress ever.
See, our obstructionism is working!
It’s true the Republican obstructionists are despicable.
Americans should remember that. With a more firm majority, Democrats can move Congress to get the work of the people done!
Representative Tiahrt and Senators Brownback and Roberts should be tossed out on their cans next November. If they refuse to do their jobs they should not have them!
Sorry but it is total BS, the Democrats are useless! True it may take the magic number “60” to pass a bill.But it takes a simple majority to fail a bill, the Democrats have that and yet they are “do nothing”. What they want to give a head wound to Bush and the Republicans? They have the gun, but not the nerve to pull the trigger themselves. So they lay the gun on the table in front of Republicans hoping they will pick it up and shoot themselves. Since that has failed, they then put the gun on the desk of the President.But guess what it is a hollow claim that just because he is not picking the gun up that it is his fault that he is not receiving a head wound! If you wish to commit homicide, suicide maybe a safer form of killing. But that is not homicide. And Bush is still not even close to the bunker doorway, so more Democrats would just mean as it stands there would be more doing nothing!
As was easy to predict, more cops in the neighborhood means less crime but the criminals are still there.So where is the winning? Just because crime is stop that does not mean you have stopped the criminals.
Until the success is a stable government we are still losing Iraq no matter how many cops are on every corner. If your vision does not see that then you are shortsighted….
Look folks, I admitted I broke up my ticket last fall and voted for a couple of big “D”’s.
I did so NOT because they were good, but because the republicans (Ryun and Kline) were bad.
Kline because he is a religious nut and Ryun because of the do nothing, pork spending congress.
Well guess what? I may have to vote against incumbent again.
Only this time, it will democrats voted out.
Call them or write them. You are their followers and they are your leaders. They should listen to you.
Stop the wasted time investigating anything that walks with an “R” in it’s name, pass the basic spending bills (appropriations) so we can then gauge if they were successful or not in the legislation they pass.
Right now, I’m fed up with the whole cotton caboodle.
AmWay–
If you voted for Ryun, that means you’re not from Wichita.
So . . . why don’t you post closer to home?
Like the Lawrence Journal?
It took awhile, but the DEMOCRATIC HOUSE has passed a bill that demands troops be pulled out.
WASHINGTON (CNN) — The Democratic-controlled U.S. House Wednesday approved a war-funding bill with a timeline for troop withdrawal from Iraq and substantially less funds to conduct the war than President Bush has requested.
The 218-203 vote was largely along party lines.
Fifteen Democrats joined Republicans in voting against the bill while four Republicans voted in favor of it. The vote was far short of the two-thirds majority needed to override a presidential veto, which Bush has threatened.
The bill states that the primary purpose of the money “should be to transition the mission of United States Armed Forces in Iraq and undertake their redeployment.”
It demands that Bush begin withdrawing troops from Iraq within 30 days of passage, with a goal of having American combat troops out of Iraq by December 15, 2008.
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/14/iraq.war.funding/
How can they say we’ve done nothing! We have talked about cutting off funding. We’ve scheduled votes. We have talked very tough with this president!
It may be time to admit that we are really no different. Our guys and gals just know what to say so the kooks on the far left (who are well represented here) will send in money and vote Democrat. It is time to jettison the kooks and quit pretending to listen to them. Who else they gonna vote for?
The dems should pass the bill in the Senate and make the Idiot veto it, again. As he’s vetoing practically everything they send him, it’s a sure thing.
So . . . why don’t you post closer to home?
Like the Lawrence Journal?
Posted by: CapnAmerica | November 15, 2007 at 08:24 PM
Thanks for the offer, CapnAmerica, but I think I’ll post whereever I like.
There are only 48 Democrats in the Senate. 60 Senators are needed to override a Presidential veto. So it’s not the Democrats fault they can’t progress, the Republicans are holding them back.
Try being a bit more accurate Rhonda.
Doug – 67, not 60. It takes 60 to break a filibuster.
I’m telling ya, this is why the Dems are scoring so low in congress is because they’re not doing enough to evoke change.
The dems need to stop trying to work with the republicans, and just let them block everything. Then when election time comes, the public will know exactly who is preventing the change.
NO MORE mr nice guy.
Doug not every action in Congress requires a presidential veto override vote.
That’s just the koolaide talking.
Historically, the American congress has passed the majority of it’s legislative actions without a super majority.
It’s only the democrats who cannot get their shit together this term.
They cannot pass anything!
Worst Congress ever.
pol mom – I agree.
AmWay – ever heard of cloture?
True, often the Democrats have to end a filibuster which the Republicans previously complained about (if the Democrats used it). The Republicans said a filibuster should only be used in extreme circumstances and constantly demanded an “up and down” vote. Naturally their voices changed when they got in the minority, kinda like how their demand for a balanced budget changed when they got in the majority.
The dems. need to use the ‘nuclear option’ to overcome these Republican obstructionist. Their play plan is the Repubs. in congress will obstruct as much as they can, if anything gets through then the 2nd line of defense comes into play in the for of the Pres. veto.They must think the public is stupid to fall for it, but come to think of it they’re right, the public will.
Cloture doesn’t force the Democrats to vote FOR funding the war.
All the Dems have to do is muster 41 votes to vote against any funding bill and the Iraq war will no longer be FUNDED.
Aren’t there at least 41 Dems in the Senate?
You’d like that Max.
You’d LIKE for the Dems to cut off funds for the troops.
Oh not because you want an end to the occupation of Iraq.
YOU just want to blame the Dems for what will happen in Iraq when/if they cut off the funds.
You don’t care about the troops at all. You showed that last night when you said that casualties didn’t count as long as they came home warm and alive.
Shame on you Max. People do not volunteer to serve this nation so you can make them a political football.
The blood is on the Dems hands just as much as the Repubs.
How many times have the Dems voted for the war, and voted to fund the war?
Just last May, the Lib Dem Majority Congress voted to fund the war!
If the Dems WANTED to stop the war, all they would have to do, is not pass a funding bill.
What happens if the Dems don’t pass a funding bill? The money runs out, the war ends.
Blame Bush, Blame Cloture, And Continue to Lie to Defend Your Dems!
As to the Liberal Socialist Democrat Congress, with the lowest approval rating in history, why are they not keeping their promise to end the Iraq war now?
If they think it is the right thing, why don’t they do the right thing? Or don’t they think pulling out of Iraq is the right thing? They promised last year before the elections that they would pull the US out of Iraq.
They appear to be worried that it might be the wrong thing to pull out of Iraq. If millions die in a bloodbath after the US leaves, the Democrats would be clearly accountable. They can’t stand being accountable.
Yet they are faced with a dilemma because if they don’t pull US troops out of Iraq, their record low approval rating will likely continue, and they will lose the majority in Congress. They will lose Power!
During lunch with Hillary the other day, I had the chance to analyze this dilemma from the Liberal Socialist Democrat Perspective:
Decision: Pull out of Iraq.
Outcome A: No problem, nothing much different happens. Good thing. Surrender for US is a victory for Democrats.
Outcome B: Millions killed in a bloodbath and regional war in the Mid East breaks out. Bad thing. Democrats lose.
Decision: Don’t Pull out of Iraq.
Outcome C: Nothing much changes. But low approvals and the Broken Promise causes Dems to lose Congress in 2008. Bad thing for Democrats.
Outcome D: Situation in Iraq improves. Victory for the US. Broken Promise causes Dems to lose Congress in 2008. Bad thing for Democrats.
Outcome E: Situation in Iraq gets worse. Bad for US and bad for Democrats, because the Broken Promise and the worsening Iraq situation leads to totally P-O Democrats. Bad thing for Democrats.
CONCLUSION:
So you see, in NO CASE, does Victory in Iraq help the Democrats.
The ONLY way the Democrats might win and might keep their power is if they force a Surrender (or I mean withdrawal) from Iraq, and nothing much changes there. Then when America is defeated the Democrats win! The dilemma though is that this Surrender approach will cause Democrats to lose for sure, if a bloodbath and/or regional war breaks out in the Mideast.
Bottom Line: Democrats need to have balls to do what they think is right. Surrender in Iraq and face the consequences. Let the chips fall where they may. You either Win Big (and America loses) or you Lose Big (and no one wins or America wins).
You Democrats have the balls to do the right thing?
Are you sure you are doing the right thing? Are you sure you have balls?
Uh huh
That’s the trap bush’s handlers set Max.
Stay the course. Occupy Iraq forever. If the Dems cut off the funding then use that to accuse them of abandoning the troops. Not the mission THE TROOPS.
This is bush’s “mission”. As a bush supporter and a Republican who voted for Republicans while Republicans held total power it is also YOUR “mission” Max.
TELL me you are writing to Republicans in the Senate and House. Show me you are asking them to stand with Democrats to end the mission in Iraq. Do that or admit the truth. That having failed to understand what Iraq would be, you are now making political hay from lemons.
JR,
What on earth are you talking about?
I don’t even know where to begin in replying to what you just posted.
The Dems will just keep whining about not being able to end the Iraq war.
Meanwhile, by February, the Dems will approve another multi-billion dollar funding bill for Iraq – without any deadlines for withdrawal of US troops.
Bunch of impotent Dems, can’t do a dang thing, not even pass the budget bills.
Let’s condemn Turkey for the genocide of 1905!
Yes, let’s follow through on the resolution Senator Dole initiated some years ago. I agree.
Well ok then Nathan stay out of it.
I wasn’t addressing you anyway.
Max?
You demeaned wounded troops last night. They don’t count to you because they survived.
NOW you further use the troops.
They lose you win.
The Democrats cut off their funds you get to blame the Democrats for what happens next. The Democrats do not cut off the funding you get to blame them for Bush’s mission.
SHAME on you Max.
Are you writing to Republicans and advocating an end to the Iraq occupation? If you are say so.
You can play too Nathan.
Are YOU advocating and end to operations in Iraq?
Or…
Do you just want to use it to hurt Democrats?
JR,
The question is a false dilemma.
You are asking an either/or question with two choices I disagree with when there are other answers.
It’s your mission JR, are you not American?
It’s your mission JR, your Democrats have voted to go to war, and to fund the Iraq war for 4 YEARS!
In spite of the Dems campaigning to END THE IRAQ WAR, they LIED TO YOU JR!
The Dems have no intention to end the war, though they keep talking about it, and wasting time on little resolutions – instead of spending the time on passing the 12 budgets that were due 10/1/07.
The Dems love war. They can’t get enough war. They love the Iraq war in particular. It’s the Dem war. That’s why they keep voting for it.
While they tell you lies that you believe.
Stupid sheep.
Democrats are not going to fall into the trap bush’s handlers and folks like you set Max.
And for the THIRD time. Are you writing Republicans and asking them to end the Iraq occupation?
JR, why can’t you end the Dem war in Iraq?
It’s not Bush’s fault, you Dems have the majority.
Just don’t vote for 1 more funding bill.
That’s not a Bush trap. Bush didn’t make the Dems promise to end the Iraq war. Can Bush make the Dems talk now? Wow! Can he make them shut up too?
Dem Puppets of George.
Dems have no balls. They complain like an old woman. Nag, Nag, Nag, while nothing gets done.
You didn’t even qualify your earlier remarks on another thread Max.
They suggest as I do here that you care nothing for the troops.
You cited REPEATEDLY only the deaths in Iraq. When someone tried to include the grievously injured you bailed. They don’t count because they lived.
Max write to Republicans. URGE them to end the occupation.
Or
Admit that you are using the troops for political purpose.
Democrats are not going to fall into the trap bush’s handlers and folks like you set Max.
And for the THIRD time. Are you writing Republicans and asking them to end the Iraq occupation?
Posted by: J R | November 15, 2007 at 11:28 PM
Oh, if the Dems are not going to fall into that trap, then why don’t they quit Nagging about stopping the war? Why don’t they hurry up and fund it?
Doesn’t do any good to write the Republicans JR, they are no longer the majority. Your Dems control Congress, when George let’s them have control, that is.
Nag some more JR.
JR,
This is a false dilemma:
“Max write to Republicans. URGE them to end the occupation.
Or
Admit that you are using the troops for political purpose.”
You are using the troops max.
If the Democrats continue to fund them, you get to blame Democrats for Iraq.
If the Democrats stop funding them you get to blame the Democrats for what happens in Iraq AND say the Democrats hate the troops.
It is YOU hates the troops Max. You USE them.
They live or die you do not care which. They are funded or not you do not care which.
You and YOUR party get to win either way.
Sickening Max. Just plain sickening. You should be ashamed.
It’s ok, I’ll be ashamed for you.
You cited REPEATEDLY only the deaths in Iraq. When someone tried to include the grievously injured you bailed. They don’t count because they lived.
Max write to Republicans. URGE them to end the occupation.
Or
Admit that you are using the troops for political purpose.
Posted by: J R | November 15, 2007 at 11:32 PM
You LIE about my posts JR. I addressed the Wounded/Killed ratio. Your boy CF thinks it’s a bad thing for more wounded soldiers to die. It’s a bad thing when the survival rate for the wounded troops is 3 times better in Iraq then in Vietnam, for CF.
Those stats were in the link that I posted!
I addressed the issue. You just can’t R E A D.
I’ve always supported the troops JR and always will. The only question is with you and your Dem comrades.
The political game is when your Dems claim to want to stop the war, then they continue to fund the war – for the last 4 years!
And the Dems will fund it again within 90 days!
But they will still Nag, and so will you.
JR,
What on earth are you talking about?
If the Democrats continue to fund them, you get to blame Democrats for Iraq.
If the Democrats stop funding them you get to blame the Democrats for what happens in Iraq AND say the Democrats hate the troops. JR
Oh my God JR, you just said it! You just said the Dems do NOT want to be accountable or responsible for making a decision one way or the other!
Now I get it!
They just want to bitch about it!
Hey, if the democrats were to succeed and tomorrow get us out of the mess King George got us into, it would deprive them of the most useful issue they’ve got for next year. And they’ll continue to let Georgie be Georgie until every republican is toast! Do you really expect politicians to not think politically?
You RAN from that thread max.
I don’t blame you. You looked pretty bad.
CF did not wish soldiers had died! He demanded you remember them even if they didn’t die. YOU didn’t want to do that. Might not looks so good lumping the permanently damaged in with the dead. Gets the numbers up.
You are using the troops and Iraq for politics Max. This was the out bush’s handlers left you.
Stay the course or play politics.
Shame on you.
JR,
How is that strawman beat down going for you?
Any other logical fallacies you want to show us tonight?
Do you really expect politicians to not think politically?
Posted by: Jed | November 15, 2007 at 11:44 PM
No, I just expect politicians to act responsibly, and be accountable and responsible for the decisions they make.
If you say you are going to do something, then DO IT.
The Dems need to Lead, Follow, or get the H out of the way.
Failing to make a decision, is making a decision. And the Dems need to be held accountable and responsible for their decisions, just as the Republicans were held accountable in 11/06.
Democrats did not launch bush’s adventure in Iraq Max. bush did that.
YOU do not get to blame them for it.
I had some respect for you Max. It’s gone now.
You are passionate. But you are also cold and cruel.
Troops die and you get to win because the Democrats won’t end it so you can win politically.
Shame on you max.
You RAN from that thread max.
I don’t blame you. You looked pretty bad.
CF did not wish soldiers had died! He demanded you remember them even if they didn’t die. YOU didn’t want to do that. Might not looks so good lumping the permanently damaged in with the dead. Gets the numbers up.
You are using the troops and Iraq for politics Max. This was the out bush’s handlers left you.
Stay the course or play politics.
Shame on you.
Posted by: J R | November 15, 2007 at 11:46 PM
Give me a link boy, prove it!
JR,
You keep posting the same strawman argument over and over again.
Are you ok? Tired? What is going on?
I’ll give you 24 hours for that link JR.
Will check back and look for it.
Keep searching boy.
JR will search until hell freezes over, but he won’t find what isn’t there.
23 hours, 55 minutes. I’ll check back.
Max?
I’ll meet you over on the thread in question if you like.
Nathan?
This goes against everything in me.
I don’t want one single American more committed to bush’s political tool that is Iraq.
But if you are gonna persist. If you are going to continue to be a true believer….
I don’t want to say this I really don’t.
But, why not re up Nathan? You did two tours. MANY folks have done more. Make no mistake I want us out of Iraq, but if you want us in?
Why aint you there? I understand there is a shortage of qualified volunteers.
JR,
I am on my 3rd contract and will soon reenlist next year.
I still have over a year left on this contract.
I find it funny that you would even try to suggest that simply because I support what is happening in Iraq that I should be there.
You obviously have no understanding of how volunteering works or how deployments work.
Besides, I don’t have to be a part of something to agree with it.
Besides, I don’t have to be a part of something to agree with it.
Posted by: Nathan | November 16, 2007 at 12:03 AM
I think that pretty much defines the problem Nathan.
I don’t want you back in Iraq. I really don’t.
But if it is the “mission” according to you? Then it IS your mission.
I just wish bush, cheney, etc. shared your peril. I HOPE my son does not.
JR,
From everything I have seen you post regarding your sons exposure to the military, I am sure he will grow up not knowing anything about what makes the military so great or will he ever entertain the thought of actually joining.
I’m far from the perfect parent Nathan.
I do teach my son not to use others. I teach him also not to allow he be used.
And so yes. I will discourage him from military service. I owe him no less than my best discretion.
You are using the troops and Iraq for politics Max. This was the out bush’s handlers left you.
Stay the course or play politics.
Shame on you.
Posted by: J R | November 15, 2007 at 11:46 PM
So says the manipulator of statements and Libs are the worst abusers of using troops as political pawns.
We should have been getting serious about becoming energy independant for the past 4 years, then we could pull the rug out from under the frickin moran Iraqi’s, and that entire region of the world!
China will still need them, and it could be them that has to deal with them.
Plug in hybrids, E85 fuel, biodiesel, WE CAN BE ENERGY INDEPENDANT! If Brazil can do it, we can.
JR ran to a thread from a couple days back.
Still waiting JR:
——————————————————————–
You RAN from that thread max.
I don’t blame you. You looked pretty bad.
CF did not wish soldiers had died! He demanded you remember them even if they didn’t die. YOU didn’t want to do that. Might not looks so good lumping the permanently damaged in with the dead. Gets the numbers up.
You are using the troops and Iraq for politics Max. This was the out bush’s handlers left you.
Stay the course or play politics.
Shame on you.
Posted by: J R | November 15, 2007 at 11:46 PM
Give me a link boy, prove it!
Posted by: Max | November 15, 2007 at 11:50 PM
By the way, the cost of this war will be equal, or great than the costs of becoming energy independant.
They are building homes that can exist entirely off grid. They can build powerful safe hybrid vehicles that can be plugged in at night, so stop and go 20 minute commutes won’t even fire up the internal combustion engine.
Their is a need for some of the “hogs” like Suburbans, Big trucks. Those can by hybrid also! Not to sip gas, but a 3 phase electric motor between the engine and transmission serves as a massive starter. So when you stop at a light, the engine shuts off, and when you accelerate, it can whirl the engine up to speed immediately, kind of likea golf cart. Once rolling, cylinder deactivation systems can kick on, saving some fuel. The systems work, are reliable, and it’s mainly electronic solid state components, besides the 3 phase motor itself. The beauty of it is that if you kick off 2 or 4 cylinders, and the computer alternates which cylinders are firing, some of the wear and tear on internal engine components is reduced. When the computer skips a cylinder, air can be injected into the cylinder through the injector to help provide cooling.
For $10k a solar panel can provide 30% of your homes electrical needs. $15k 38% by having a method to store some of the energy. $30k, will put you at 70%! IT WORKS PEOPLE! All the $250k plus homes should HAVE to have solar! It’s $232/mo over a 20 year mortage, and that’s about what it will save you in electricity when the mortage tax write off is factored in.
Great points, SemperFi!
Most people have no idea of how conservation and green power can have a major impact.
Solar and wind power only provide 0.7 percent of the energy we consume today.
The growth potential is staggering, but it’s going to take political leadership to effect nation-wide change.
It goes without saying that people closely tied to the OIL INDUSTRY like the Bush family, Cheney at Halliburton (that started as an oil equipment company), Condi Rice at Chevron and so many others just don’t see the need for any kind of power except fossil fuels.