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31 Comments
Not enough seats
The Missouri Valley Conference men’s basketball tournament will stay in St. Louis until 2011 (Nov. 14 Sports). After that, the MVC tourney could begin to move around, as the Big 12 tourney has done recently.
The Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo., Qwest Center in Omaha and Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines all bid for the tournament. Surely Tulsa’s BOK Center and Oklahoma City’s Ford Center might bid in future years.
The Sedgwick County arena could be left out, with too few seats for basketball — 15,000 is not enough. The Big 12 requires 18,000 floor seats. In St. Louis, the Scottrade Center has 20,000 seats.
Moving a tournament around to different cities is an experiment but seems to work. It could happen with the MVC. The Big 12 likes different cities to bid for its tournament. It won’t ever be in Sedgwick County, because of limited seating in our arena. Events in this region sometimes require 18,000 seats. It isn’t right for events to pass by.
Local corporations should be demanding and paying for more seats in the arena. It’s not too late. A little more size and seats will fit on the arena site. Don’t squeeze seats, legroom or concourses to do it.—–
Notice when I wrote Letter to the Editor on Friday, that its local Corps to blame, their not involved with the Arena yet.
I’m done talking to the County. It’s beyond obvious, we can’t exist starting in 2010 with a too few seating arena where events pass by.
Business forces jumped out about a Casino downtown, yet this Arena is a core project for the County and City to have.
We have been harmed collectively with past WSU football closing down. The inability to imagine “sports” that have more than 10,000 seat facilities.
Can Wichita promote a facility for events equal to Tulsa, Omaha, OKC, KC, St. Louis, Dallas, San Antonio and Denver. Add Des Moines as well.
Those cities have arena’s. We’re can’t steal forever events to be here. But we should be in the mix with those cities bidding for events.
Future MVC men’s basketball tourney. Big 12 mens and womens tourney also. Those are too “local” for our Arena to not bid for.
Stop hating the Arena, its a necessary facility, but stay concerned about amount of seats and parking downtown.
Other cities have Corporation names on their arena’s. We need Corporate dollars to increase arena capacity and add more floor seats. Pay for the redrawn plan too.
If the County had a partner they would put more into the parking issues. Without one, they are assuming cost of the Arena will take some from their parking plans. City is eager to take control of parking in the arena zone.
It’s great their trying to work together. There is still animosity between some of those people on County and City commissions.
We need them to work together on this Arena project.
They have to work together on the Airport. State is now paying some of the subsidy for airlines to fly from ICT.
State is involved with the Arena in a way, they can promote it nationally. Something to write about when they describe Wichita.
Opening day of the Arena is a horizon away because so much still has to be done fixing the plan to benefit our future.
Past that horizon there is the next facility we need. A new stadium for WSU football and other events.
It will take a lot of investor money to build but the County and City governments have to be financially involved. State offered Star Bonds to clear land. It will be County property under that Stadium.
County and City working together. I’m trying to create a high school stadium downtown, so everyone should be “experienced” in facilities larger 10,000 seats.
Investors will be more comfortable being involved in these projects.
If we think the Arena is complicated process, wait until the WSU talks start. How long to implement changes on WSU campus making it possible, complying with Title IX requirements.
Constructing facilities and housing for those new student athletes. Its not going to happen overnight.
WSU won’t pay a nickel in a new stadium where their football team will play. They will have financial help to run the increased sports in the athletic department.
The goal is getting more students to choose WSU.
Don Beggs and WSU alone can’t bring football back so I don’t agree completely with Don Blasi who wrote this Letter to the Editor last week. 1986 is a blur in my mind.
—-In 1986, the year Division I-A football was taken from Wichita State University, enrollment was 16,843, having gained an average 443 students annually since 1963.
Between 1986 and 2005, enrollment declined an average of 146 students per year. I believe WSU has lost out on more than 9,000 students because football was dropped.
The article “Skilled jobs go unfilled” (Nov. 4 Eagle) reported there are 8,700 skilled jobs open in the Wichita metropolitan area.The irresponsible termination of WSU football is the primary reason. How many more years are the WSU trustees going to allow the anti-football president Donald Beggs to sabotage the Visioneering Wichita goals of retaining young people, providing more entertainment, increasing the number of postsecondary students 3 percent a year, and attracting a more educated work force?
DON BLASI
——-
Football is entertainment, some athletes do go pro and make a career out of it. Attending football games is a lifestyle many people enjoy today.
Location of the stadium and its parking matters!
No matter how many business come and go in Wichita, college football in the fall months, should be what happens here.
We can have an incredible stadium that has other uses beyond football. It will be distinct in this four state area!
Teams are getting blown out on fields today, 76 points scored. WSU football can suffer that! We won’t hope that happens!
Some teams are fundamentally bad on defense right now.
No point discussing who WSU football will play on the Division 1 level. They could have an independent schedule for a few years. Conferences could have different members in 20 years.
2016 is the goal for that stadium to open.
I hope taxes aren’t raised to build that stadium. County and City tax money involved shouldn’t break their budgets.
In the mean time, City League schools need help improving their sports facilities. It’s pretty embarrassing the play fields our schools have. School board is considering a new Bond.
Mrage – I already published a step-by-step program Blasi can use to try to bring back football at WSU. If you and he with to use it feel free – GO FOR IT!
Raise the money; assemble your backers. Sell memberships. Do whatever it takes. If the demand is there then neither you not Balse should have any difficulty whatsoever.
Want football at WSU? GO FOR IT!
*********************************
Proponents of bringing big-time football to Wichita State University have been pressing their case lately. However, their advocacy of this action lacks a plan to make this happen. I would like to propose a concrete action plan to bring football to WSU:
1. Hold a mammoth rally at Cessna Stadium to demonstrate community support for the effort. Proponents of a big-time football program should expect tens of thousands of fans to attend the rally. At that rally collect money that would serve to begin the establishment of an endowment fund for the football program.2. Place the funds collected into a secure account to serve as the base for further fund raising. The University can provide information to the football advocates as to the level of revenues required to establish the program.3. Continue fund-raising until enough money has been raised to cover the costs both of renovating Cessna Stadium and of building a football program.4. When sufficient funds have been collected; turn the account over to University officials so that they can establish the program.
If, in fact, there is sufficient support in the community for a viable football program at WSU the proponents of such a program should have no difficulty in raising this money. If successful, this fund-raising will demonstrate that support.
Great plan Ben, if that’s the route WSU decides to go.
As much as I like sports, I think a football program would be a detractor and not an attractor.
With that said, it would give more opportunity for Kansas football players to get training at a collegiate level and an education as well.
Looks to me to be a winnable situation, I’d support it if it came about.
There is another component to revival of football at WSU (or anywhere else); Title IX compliance. This has seemed to be the big stumbling block for the university (and the bring back football folks), namely the additional costs to the athletic department to fund not only the football program (a very expensive proposition in and of itself), but also the additional scholarships/programs needed to comply with Title IX. While there is an annual hue and cry for football, there is little discussion as to where the additional funding for the women’s programs that will be a necessary part of all this will come from. Now, there have been some half-baked discussions on how this might happen, but unless and until the Title IX issue is correctly handled, reinstitution of football at WSU will remain but a dream for those who want it to happen.
College football is a money loser for most schools. Wake up. When you spend all that money on football, you’ll be spending an equal amount on women’s sports, thanks to NCAA rules, compounding the problem.
I agree kansas and VT. My ‘plan’ is mostly a response to Blasi and others who keep bringing it up. If they want football let them fund it.
The school I went to as an undergrad did not have football; we had no problem attracting students. We did it with academics.
And academics should be the reason a student chooses to matriculate at a particular institution, not its football team, e.g.
WSU has a first-class aero department with NIAR. They should have other top-notch cutting-edge programs – composites comes to mind. Then they should also serve as the continuing education center for south-central Kansas.
There are a lot of things WSU could do to increase enrollment. But I don’t think football is one of them.
Title IX is a bogus argument to not bring back football at WSU.
WSU shouldn’t offer scholarships, creating women’s soccer, field hockey and swim team?
Facilities for those athletes have to be created. It’s expensive. Getting quality athletes, recruiting is tough.
It’s not just football at WSU.
It’s about Wichita, the process would give something we lack. A stadium as an event center.
A gathering place for 50,000 people. At least that number of seats. Who knows how many show up with our community attendance problems today. 6 home games a year, on Saturdays.
A distinct stadium can be created.
The process would force local business, investors, County-City gov’s and WSU to all work together making it happen. The support has to be “forever”.
WSU must be intertwined with Wichita, so they get something out of the community partnership.
More scholarships and financial help to run an expanded athletic program. Means more money into academic programs. Some athletes need tutoring because they spend so much time at practice.
NCAA now has rules, if a player doesn’t make grades they don’t play.
Some high profile football players, starters, failed to play in Conference Championship games because of poor grades.
The process allows Wichita an exceptional modern stadium it needs!
It creates a participation event in this city.
30,000 to 50,000 Sedgwick County citizens doing something together.
When people describe what Wichita doesn’t have, that’s it.
We don’t have that many gathering together constantly for anything.
Mrage – I have published the blueprint. GO FOR IT!
“When people describe what Wichita doesn’t have, that’s it.”
NO IT’S NOT.
Mrage, to clarify a bit; there is little appetite, it appears to me, for facing the Title IX issue by the “bring back football” supporters personified by Mr. Blasi and others. I recognize you understand the issue, but there are many who don’t, or who try to argue that Title IX doesn’t require what the courts have determined it requires to meet the “equal opportunity to participate” language. Thus, when folks talk about it will only cost $X to reinstitute football, often they don’t talk about the “rest of the story”, namely the additional cost of Title IX compliance.
IF there is sufficient support to raise the funds needed to reinstate football as well as to fund the additional scholarships and programs on the women’s side, then such should be demonstrated as Ben proposed, and then football can be a relatively unattended fall afternoon or evening activity here in Wichita, as it was when I came to town in 1979.
Ben,
Your blue print has WSU controlling everything with that “turn over” statement.
I’m not turning everything over to WSU, they can be invited into a business partnership in my plan.
There will be a lot of giving to WSU but its a partnership. They have to provide administrating the scholarships and students. They have to comply with NCAA requirements, based on their ability.
None of these sports will be created at the same time. WSU has to expand their administration prior to inviting more students.
Baby steps have to be taken years before a massive rally can be held in Cessna Stadium.
County/City govs and investors have to figure out creating the stadium first. Where to put it. How to use Star Bonds. What’s the amount tax money needed. What are the investors paying for. How can it be profitable.
Realize the stadium, then ask WSU what it needs to comply with NCAA requirements bringing back football.
Mrage – that is fine; modify it as you see fit. BUT DO IT! RAISE THE MONEY! GET YOU INVESTORS LINED UP!
By the way – how’s the 18,000 seats coming?
There IS a way t bring some enjoyable football to Cessna Stadium every weekend in the fall. Host City League and Chisolm Trail games every week. Friday night host a City game; Saturday afternoon a suburban game.
Begin the season with 4 weekends ‘pre-booked’ based on rivalries, past performance, etc. The goal is to have the best games in the leagues in Cessna.
After the season gets underway schedult it like Bowl games – getting the good ‘bloodbath’ games as they come. Again, we want the best games and it should be an honor to get the bid.
Then, if those games fill up the stadium perhaps that begins to set a foundation for what Blasi and Mrage want.
Vaughn,
You can’t use past WSU football in Cessna stadium bad attendance problems. They were in a bad football conference.
College football has grown up. Its supported by advertising and most of the games on cable. WSU could have an independent schedule finding rivals for awhile.
If Cessna Stadium was torn down, that’s not the right location where WSU should play.
A new stadium has to be in Wichita, not on their campus.
It can’t be too far away from their campus either.
Mrage – THEN DO IT!
Location: 21st and Canal Route – west side. A mile from campus and easily accessable.
Mrage,
How successful do you think that a start up independent football program will be for the first several years? Based upon my observation of the “fans” here in Wichita, I suspect attendance will, after the novelty wears off, drop significantly.
Also, I’m not up on NCAA rules, but it was, once upon a time, a requirement that when a school which plays at the Division I level starts up or restarts a football program, it must start at the Division I-AA level, not the Division I-A level played by KU and KSU. There was a requirement that the program was to remain at the “lower level” for some time before it could “move up”. If this still applies, I don’t see Wichita supporting a I-AA program (although that would allow competition with the MVC schools still playing football in the Gateway).
In any event, go for it, and prove me wrong.
VT – I have been challenging Blasi for years with my blueprint. He wants you and me to pay for it for him.
Yeah, I know, Ben, and guess what; I’m not gonna pay for his ego.
:^)
But, how do you like my City/Suburb idea for Cessna? In Atlanta when I grew up the culmination of the city football was the “Milk Bowl” (fundraiser) helt at GA Tech.
The winner then got to lose to Avondale …
Ben, your idea for use of Cessna by the City League/suburban games is a good one, IMHO. This would take a bit of the wind out of the sails of those pushing for another bond issue for USD 259 who are using “upgraded athletic facilities” as one of the rationales.
Vaughn
UConn didn’t do that way. UConn has had much success in college basketball both mens and women’s teams. The found money in their area to start a D1 football team and get into the league.
Generally, Wichitans won’t accept Division 1AA ramp up process. Anyone can try to do that, that’s not my goal.
NCAA tries to understand what money in a community pays for college football program and then questions attendance.
It’s a process for both groups, start small NCAA says to colleges if you need to. Don’t expect more than you should to attend football games. What kind of facility they play football in matters.
My stadium idea has more uses than College football. It will be a well supported stadium if ever constructed. NCAA gauges what the support is for college football.
This is so far in the future, stadium talks could begin in 2011, our attendance problems have to grow up.
Koch Arena, 10,000 seats. Downtown Arena 15,000, needs 18,000.
(Ben, I keep trying to embarrass local corp friends I know,Arena necessary in this community and their not supporting it yet.
I used my Letter to the Editor on Friday sent to them directly. Its long term corporate partnership not a huge burden on them immediately supporting the Arena.
$2 Million a year for 15 years. $1 Million for naming rights. $1 Million to expand capacity and more seats in the Arena. County would borrow the money immediately to pay for redrawing the arena and increases in materials to build it.
Some mega corps we have here can do that easily.)
We need dedicated 15,000 event fans to attract 30,000 if each brings a partner.
Keep event tickets down to $20 per seat for 6 home games for students, those under 25!
21 to 25 are college aged for the most part, so they get an advantage of the cheapest ticket prices. It doesn’t mean they would be in the worst seats either.
Another key to keep fans interested is teams that come to Wichita.
Who would WSU play here?
Depends, there are a bunch of teams to make a schedule. South Florida and Florida International are doing it. Troy has gone everywhere. Teams go there to play.
I don’t understand why Florida International is playing twice at KU. That’s only for basketball!
This area has attendance problems, no doubt. We also have misunderstandings how these kind of projects financially work out.
Projects fail in Wichita, but we fail worse never to try.
Stadium is different than an Arena. Those are different than building a museum.
We stupidly rejected investors money to build a casino that could have purchased City property.
Civic misunderstanding in action that harms this community. We decided not to control the Casino idea, because its too much for our sensibilities. Couldn’t decide its proper location and investment goals.
Civic weakness! Business threatened to move because of Casino nearby like they couldn’t control the streets where they are right now.
Hate the gambling, by not going in. But desire that kind of money being spent here!
City had property they should sell. Century II was never for sale and no one offered to buy it.
Hating the 259 Bond that’s needed, WSU charges the host school to play there. So games get expensive in that location if always used.
Stadium I want to build for high schools, schools won’t be charged to play there.
There is a need at high schools around this city to improve their campus facilities. City league lacks enough stadiums even using WSU.
It’s civic weakness to reject a school bond here for 259, while Goddard approves theirs.
Our last Bond was for 259 schools, not their play fields and equipment.
Goddard got a bond for new schools and play equipment approved.
Mrage – THEN GET OFF YOUR DUFF AND DO IT! RAISE THE MONEY! SELL MEMBERSHIPS! HOLD A BAKE SALE! WHATEVER!
AND GO GET YOUR 18,000 SEATS!
UConn differences – a bigger state and it isn’t the third university in that state. UConn is the ‘KU’ of Connecticutt. Have you even been on their campus?
http://www.uconn.edu/about/index.php
Oh yea – UConn was a rival of ours in crew, swimming and especially Water Polo. We routinely sank them in that sport. Not quite as nasty as the match against Harvard (DROWN THEM ALL – NO SURVIVORS!) but still spirited.
Ben,
Wichita is not a third city in this state. That is why to bring college football back. Who says the team can’t be as competitive.
KU is showing it doesn’t take a legacy of winning to win.
How KSU came from the dumps of college football to being the Big 12 Champ in a relative short time.
Don’t we armchair coach and see the football mistakes clearly!
This community can support WSU and that University brand our city.
When people come to Wichita they should feel WSU, same when folks go to Lawrence or Manhattan.
It’s why community must support the feeder high schools of 259.
Get more local kids going to WSU and their prepared for college. Have more citizens cheering for WSU in a stadium.
The question has always been asked, why hasn’t Wichita helped WSU bring football back. I’ve heard that repeatedly from out of towners. I can only say, we have had civic problems here and weak split governments.
Mrage – I never said Wichita was the third city. I said WSU was the third UNIVERSITY! Don’t you know the difference?
And Connecticutt is a significntly larger (population) state than Kansas.
So, Mrage – you and Blasi want football? THEN GET OFF YOUR DUFF AND DO IT! RAISE THE MONEY!
Maybe you keep hearing that from the out of towners you know; I definitely do NOT hear that. It’s your thing Mrage – put your money up.
By the way – how is your drive to change the name to Wichita Shocker University coming along? And are you an alum per chance?
Ben,
Shouldn’t Wichita feel ever slam against WSU? We can’t like it being called the third University.
It’s third for what reason? Less students? Lack of football? Smallest campus? The most ignored by Regents.
I haven’t attempted the process to remove “State” from WSU. It will be a vote on campus whether to do so or not, some day.
There will be marketing reasons why to do it. Wichita is diminished using “State” in their University name.
I’m not alum of WSU. I took classes there in the 80’s.
It could be Wichita’S University keeping the WSU. I don’t want to change those letters.
I want better marketing with the name Shockers. WU-Shock is just a mascot.
Shockers are shortened term from Wheatshockers who were people do field work. To represent past Shockers, their definition has to be people.
What are Shockers, a large group of people wild and proud about WSU.
Right now, WU-Shock is thrust out as a definition for Shockers and nationally people don’t know what it is.
Have fun with that Mrage. I don’t know of a single one of my fellow alums who are in your camp.