It’s good to hear that the Wichita City Council has identified another possible site for the new downtown Central Library, at the corner of Central and Museum Boulevard, across from the Mid-America All-Indian Center.
The 13-acre site already belongs to the city — a big plus, although a massive underground water tank might pose costly complications.
A previously approved plan to allow the Overseas Schools Historical Society to build a park and museum there reportedly has been abandoned by the group — and it now looks like a questionable use anyway.
This is a prime location, and shouldn’t be given to a narrow niche audience or purpose.
The Watkins Steel building site may still offer the most high-profile riverfront site, offering great synergy with nearby Exploration Place.
Still, it’s nice to have choices. This new location, in the heart of the Riverside cultural district, offers a host of exciting possibilities, from a library or other major cultural space to a dynamic riverfront apartment or condo development.
The City Council should make sure this land goes to a highest and best use.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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35 Comments
This is an important blog thread about selecting a location for an expanded public library. It’s not the place for continued feud among certain WE bloggers. On the WE Blog, the “open thread” has traditionally been used for these internicine flights of oratory so they can be avoided by WE Bloggers who would rather not waste time on them. Can’t we keep it that way?
Y’all can send that big water tank down here to Georgia! We are almost out of water here- we have about 80 days of water left in the reserviours- and we might be needing it!
Kev: Wichita has Lake Cheney and the underground Equus Beds aquifer up by Halstead … both of which have potential problems. Lake Cheney is silting up and has Zebra mussels. The Equus Beds aquifer level is dropping, is being threatened by ethonol plants and salt leaching. But the threat is not so close as you are experiencing in Georgia.
Get over yourself Capn..you are not that important. Your inclusion on a site about a civic issue proves once again you obviously think it is ALL ABOUT YOU. Sorry to tell you…it is not, and few–if anyone–cares.
I think the site is worth a look. It would tie in the cultural places in that area, a lot better.
The only draw back is that it wouldn’t have as much exposure and people not familiar with our area may find it difficult to find and get to.
Problem with site:
If it is a Homeless magnet, can we legally stop those “street people” from making the Art Museum and other public buildings their shelter?
The courts have said we can’t kick them out of the library.
What about these other public buildings?
Why do we need a new libray?
WhiteElephant,
Ever used the old one? Not a great facility. Poorly designed and not easy to use, for patrons or for staff.
Libraries are important. They contribute to educational and economic development, and are a necessity rather than an amenity–unlike certain Arena boondoggles we could mention. Arenas don’t help to make people literate; libraries do.
My hesitation about both sites, which others have voiced, is that they’re less central than the current location, less accessible to public transportation, etc.
That said, of the two sites, I’d favor the one at Second and Sycamore. It is marginally closer to the downtown core, is closer to Exploration Place, and is more accessible from multiple directions than is the other site.
Heading north on Seneca, the turnoff to Museum Boulevard is kind of a bad intersection, since it cuts left and the continuation to Central cuts hard right. It’s dangerous, and I don’t like the thought of pouring hundreds more pedestrians–many of them children–into that area on a daily basis.
I look forward to the siting and design process. Libraries are important civic institutions, and a real benchmark of how a city sees itself and its future.
“If it is a Homeless magnet, can we legally stop those ’street people’ from making the Art Museum and other public buildings their shelter?”
Newsflash, Paulie,Homeless people are citizens, too. Thus, they are entitled to use the same public space as you are. I know, it is one of those messy, unpleasant things about living in a Democracy. Maybe you can start your own country…
Then you could go around singing the jingle: “This is MYYYY Country!”
“Ever used the old one? Not a great facility. Poorly designed and not easy to use, for patrons or for staff.”
I guess I don;t know about the staff issues, but as a patron, I don;t see how it is not “easy to use” Could you elaborate? Thanks
I use the current facility almost weekly , and it meets my needs. I think a part of the move to build a new library is based upon using the current location for some other effort, rather than merely upgrading the current facility.
kev – GA’s water problems were predicted; you are in for some very difficult times ahead. That region has not developed a regime of riaprian law based on scarcity since water used to be abundant. Unfortunately, the migration of the Hadley-Ferrell boundary may be changing that.
Have you seen Lake Okechoobie down in FL? Or the Okefenookie?
“Homeless people are citizens, too. Thus, they are entitled to use the same public space as you are.”
Maybe not.
loiter v. to linger or hang around in a public place or business where one has no particular or legal purpose. In many states, cities, and towns there are statutes or ordinances against loitering by which the police can arrest someone who refuses to “move along.” There is a question as to whether such laws are constitutional. However, there is often another criminal statute or ordinance which can be applied specifically to control aggressive begging, soliciting prostitution, drug dealing, blocking entries to stores, public drunkenness, or being a public nuisance.
Our next round of homeless?
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/08/news/economy/bc.apfn.vets.returningto.ap/index.htm?postversion=2007110808
Veterans are greatly OVER-REPRESENTED among the homeless.
“hang around … with no aprticular purpose … ”
So, when I am simply wandering around a park on a nice autumn afternoon I am loitering.
littlejohn,
-Bathrooms and drinking fountains are located only on the third floor and in the basement;
-Bathrooms are too small and are not easily surveillable;
-Library, in general, is difficult to monitor and to police, since the layout on each floor doesn’t possess open sightlines, and interior walls obstruct clear views;
-Glass walls to the south mean that interior of library receives a great deal of direct sunlight, making it warm and difficult to cool;
-No wi-fi / generalized computer access;
Admittedly, this last point isn’t specific to this building. But the distribution of terminals on the first, second, and third floors creates a difficult to monitor system in which patrons who sign up on floor one are often sent to floors two and three.
As for the staffing concerns, I’m not an employee; but I have friends who are (present and former employees), and they have expressed, to me, a general dissatisfaction with the facility and its capabilities.
As I said, I look forward to the design process, and I hope that Wichita can learn from the experience of other cities in designing its library.
“So, when I am simply wandering around a park on a nice autumn afternoon I am loitering.”
You are smarter than that.Don’t get lazy on me.
fleettwood,
Stop objecting; you don’t count.
Steven
Are are constructing a book warehouse that also serves as a homeless shelter?
Or, are we constructing a homeless shelter that also serves as a book wearhouse?
I don’t consider the current structure a “library” at all, in that a true “public” library should be a place where parents can drop off their school age children, without fear.
Today, the chairs have been soiled, drug addicts and alcoholics wander around the facility, the bathrooms are in terrible shape, needles and drugs can be found on the premises, empty liquor bottles and glass are also frequently decorating the area, and any parent who DID leave children at the library, TODAY, would risk an SRS referral for endangerment!
— Do we want the Art Museum and Indian Center to suffer the same fate?
I just want some honesty on taxpayer financed “feel good” projects.
We want to say we have downtown library, but what we have, now is for adults, and for those who do not wish to sit down anywhere. (Unless you are also homeless, or completely nuts.)
Paul,
I think “downtown library” are the operative words.
Are we trying to build up the riverbank or are we trying to build up downtown? Personal opinion only, but putting the new “downtown library” near the Indian Center and Art Museum isn’t the brightest idea.
Some of the charaterizations the current library are totally at odds with my own experience in many visits there.
I think we have a few folks who would rather not even SEE a person they even think might be homeless. They should look inward for ugliness.
That said, a new and updated library with attentions to modern media is sorely needed.
Ive been to the downtown library many times and while there are homeless there. I have never seen the drugs, booze and mess described above. The bigger question is do we need a new Library? with library patronage going down do we need to spend millions on something in the end may very well be obsolete before it opens.
>>>If it is a Homeless magnet, can we legally stop those “street people” from making the Art Museum and other public buildings their shelter?
The courts have said we can’t kick them out of the library.
What about these other public buildings?<<<
It boggles my mind knowing that this city will spend $30 million on a library, but NOTHING to shelter homeless people.
If I had the money.. and I don’t, I would buy a large warehouse and renovate as a shelter/resource center for both men and women! It needs a dozen or more showers and toilets, and I would put in about 400 “cubicle” style living areas that could be semi-private sleeping quarters. A separate area would be a more secure area for those that lean towards causing trouble. Then, I would use about 10,000 sq feet or so to put in offices and facilities that could be used by Service providers like AA, COMCARE, VA, Job Placement, Transportation assistance, etc. As clients became more stable, they could be “promoted” to group homes, apartments, or assisted in securing their own homes.
If you want them out of public view, then give them someplace else to go that is humane and caring. After all, many of them are veterans that were disabled fighting for OUR freedom to choose to speak out against them!
Kssam, I bet you could do that and more for a lot less than 30 milliom
How about converting the old Coleman factory into a place for the homeless? Or better yet how about opening the churches up during the night and then paying the homeless to clean them and maintain them.
Amen!
This is what I mean about telling the truth on this issue!
I dont want the homeless to freeze.
I would actually appreciate it if somebody tried to get them to take a bath from time to time.
I would rather spend money, outright, on a place that would have showers and such, then have them MISUSE facilities that were not intended to give aid to the homeless.
I would like washers and dryers too, for their clothes, but then you would have trouble documenting who was truely “homeless” and who was just trying to get a free wash!
Call me heartless all you want, but at least I am willing to bring up the issue in the first place.
My mother used to drop me off at the downtown library all the time.
It was common to see kids, alone, in the library when I was growing up.
The rights of our kids have been sacrificed for the rights of the homeless, in my opinion.
>>>How about converting the old Coleman factory into a place for the homeless? Or better yet how about opening the churches up during the night and then paying the homeless to clean them and maintain them.<<<
There are alot of buildings that would be suitable. Opening up churches sounds ok up front, but churches were not designed for people to live in them. Also, I think the support services are really needed close by if we are going to work to get these people “off the street” and not just a place to sleep. Many of these folks have issues that would not allow them to do any kind of work without constant supervision.
I don’t understand…one of the reasons a new library is needed is due to parking. Yet, the county tells us we don’t need designated parking for a facility that will attract over 10,000 people at a time?
taz
I have always wondered if one of the movers and shakers in Wichita wants to build a huge, parking fee based parking garage.
They wont get started on it until all the big “draws” are done.
They discourage our elected leaders from building parking garages because they want to corner the market, and meet the need, themselves.
Sorry, I don’t often go for the conspiracy stuff — but why is parking ALWAYS neglected by our downtown planners?
I THINK I WILL TRY TO WEIGH IN ON THIS WICHITA LIBRARY SITUATION.
First of all, we must admit that many homeless people are obviously “troubled,” many filthy, some most likely carrying weapons if for only for defense while lounging under a bridge, carrying drugs to sell, possibly looking for a way to get even with society, using the toilet facilities of any public building they can get into.
I know the US Supreme Court has ruled something to the effect that homeless people can go anywhere the general public goes unless they fail to meet normal behaviour requirements.
I am also not anti-homeless. My sister volunteers and contributes to homeless care in Phoenix, Arizona.
Here in Wichita, the Library security guards have warned me a number of times “not to sit down in the chairs and sofas in the library” because homeless who might not have taken a bath for a number of days might have just sat there.
Also, regardless of the United States Supreme Court, we can’t in good conscience allow Wichita’s young people visiting the library to be contacted by homeless males begging money and selling drugs.
Also the library restrooms are usually filthy because of their use by homeless for their group toilet.
And the homeless are using valuable library book collections for pillows and pushing games so valuable book collections are being destroyed.
And the professional librarians are not trained as social workers, security officers, social services care managers, etc. It’s not fair to ask librarians to attempt to deal with these terrible social problems on a daily basis.
The library needs to remain close to downtown to serve the many downtown employees when they take a break. I always thought every downtown should have a library.
NOW TO TRY TO OFFER OPTIONS, NOT EASY.
1) Remain in current location until a solution to the homeless problem can be derived. Library should hire at least two social workers AND two police officers to work in the library and try to keep homeless separated from library patrons.
(1 1/2) Build a new full-service homeless shelter on north edge of downtown BEFORE starting a new downtown library.
2) As an alternative to moving the library … add “wings” to both north and south sides of the existing library building. If the building was designed to add a third real floor, consider adding it.
3) Or, build the new headquarters library far enough away from downtown so as to avoid visits from the homeless. Perhaps build it at Seneca and 31st Street for example.
4) Sell the entire Sedgwick County library system to a private library operations company to gain advantages of private enterprise in the library operation.
5) City sell entire library system to USD 259 and be out of the library business.
I admit I don’t know all the alternatives but would like to see a lot more discussion and ideas from the general public.
“The bigger question is do we need a new Library? with library patronage going down do we need to spend millions on something in the end may very well be obsolete before it opens.
Posted by: Tom Paine | November 08, 20″
Well they are still building the arena aren’t they? The city/county is very interested in building obsolete buildings!
JWink
I like your ideas… Above, someone posted the question, What prevents the homeless from turning the Art Museum or Cowtown into the same thing. The answer is they charge admission. If the library was a private organization, they could sell memberships or charge admission, basically to keep the homeless out no matter where they were at. The admission could be a down payment type system. They could also enforce a dress code policy that way.
I do however think the library needs to be moved and i believe the Watkins site is the best one for numerous reasons. #1 is that Century II needs to expand and the only way that will happen is to overtake the library. I believe the library would make an excellent new entrance to CII and expo hall.
There isn’t enough technology, isn’t enough parking, isn’t enough amenities to justify someone such as myself to go. If there was a cafe and wireless internet, i might go there to sit around and read rather than to old town and the wine bar or go home…
>>>I like your ideas… Above, someone posted the question, What prevents the homeless from turning the Art Museum or Cowtown into the same thing. The answer is they charge admission. If the library was a private organization, they could sell memberships or charge admission, basically to keep the homeless out no matter where they were at. The admission could be a down payment type system. They could also enforce a dress code policy that way. <<<
That is the worst idea I have ever heard. We have enough “upscale” establishments in Wichita that the working class cannot afford!