Congress passed sentencing guidelines in the 1980s for federal crimes in hopes of lending uniformity to prison terms. But the guidelines also caused federal prison population to increase from 24,000 in 1980 to 181,000 last year, as judges became forced to impose tougher sentences than the specific circumstances of a case might have justified.
The U.S. Supreme Court recently heard a case that could ease the guidelines and allow judges to pass lower sentences with discretion.
“The guidelines are only guidelines. They are advisory,” said Justice Antonin Scalia.
That’s good to hear. But unless those guidelines are loosened, our prisons will unnecessarily keep bursting at the seams.
Posted by Kristin Mehler
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44 Comments
Kristen,
Nevermind the facts of why those people are being put in prison?
I see you will fit in just fine with the rest of the Eagle staff…
Nathan, do you go from blog to blog posting idiotic crap? As it is now, judges are FORCED to give stiffer sentences, irregardless of the facts as to why ‘those people’ are being put in prison. The new guidelines would allow a judge to use discretion when handing down sentences.
I see you fit in just fine with… err… other idiots. You might look into getting your dosage upped.
“irregardless of the facts”Posted by: Scout | October 15, 2007 at 02:35 AM
There is no such word as “irregardless” Scout. It is spelled “regardless.”
Perhaps before you come to a blog insulting a person you need to brush up on your spelling and manners.
The reason that we have mandatory sentences and sentence guidelines is because there are too many idiot judges on the bench. Before this was done, you would have 3 defendants with the same records who committed the same offenses and one would get 20 years and the other probation. The guidelines are meant to make sentences more uniform. As for prisons “bursting at the seam”, first let all the non vilent drug offenders- especially those with marijuana and extasy charges- out. Don’t stick people in there for selling things like bongs. Secondly, if they are still overcrowded with REAL criminals (those who actually had victims or violated their parole) then we need to build new prisons. Prisons are a good investment when they are used for the right reasons. If they were not being filled up with petty dope users and small time dealers, we would have plenty of room.
“The reason that we have mandatory sentences and sentence guidelines is because there are too many idiot judges on the bench. Before this was done, you would have 3 defendants with the same records who committed the same offenses and one would get 20 years and the other probation.” — Kev
There is no situation possible where the above could be true. All crimes, criminals and records are different. Why have a judge at all, if they are not going to judge?
As an example; one person who is mentally defficient could have committed three “armed” robberies with a plastic toy pistol, and another with a loaded Glock. These crimes are not the same, yet under the law, they could be.
Underneath this all is a horrible sickness in they country, proven by the incredible mental gymnastics that one third of our citizens will perform to justify the torture of prisoners of war, the imprisonment of the harmless and mentally ill, and the rabid imposition of their collective will on others for no other purpose than to preserve their authority.
You can call it what you want, but I think it’s pretty obvious what it is.
Look, these people in prison are criminals. Where do you want them to be? Next door to you and your kids?
Reduce prison populations? Pshaw!
Whatever would the prison-industrial complex do?
The repukes cant do without the CCA campaign donations…
Heh, besides, without those felony convictions, how would the repukes purge the voter rolls?
Gosh, maybe we should ask fredrick of hollywood what to do? I mean, since we value the opinion of actors so much. Unless they are liberal actors, then they are hollyweird. But conservative actors? Hell, we nominate them for preznit! And sometimes, we even MAKE the preznit.
Nice to see the downward in the violent crime rate in America.Keeping the crooks behind bars and concealed carry laws work!
Let’s build some more prisons, cheap tent style like in Maricopa County, AZ. Lotsa room in the desert SW. Oh, and let’s get a Federal Concealed Carry Permit – good in all 50 states.
Note the peak in the crime rate in 1991.
Year Violent Crime rate1960 160.91961 158.11962 162.31963 168.21964 190.61965 200.21966 2201967 253.21968 298.41969 328.71970 363.51971 3961972 4011973 417.41974 461.11975 487.81976 467.81977 475.91978 497.81979 548.91980 596.61981 594.31982 571.11983 537.71984 539.21985 556.61986 617.71987 609.71988 637.21989 663.11990 731.81991 758.11992 757.51993 746.81994 713.61995 684.61996 636.51997 610.81998 567.51999 5232000 506.52001 504.42002 494.42003 475.82004 463.22005 469.2
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/htiuscdb.pdf
From 1991 to 2005, the violent crime rate droped by 38%!
That’s the lowest crime rate in 30 years!
Link for above stats:
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeStatebyState.cfm
So if violent crimes are going down…
…why are prison populations going up?
So if violent crimes are going down…
…why are prison populations going up?————-
The criminals are in jail?
Outlander, ya think?
Getting criminals off the streets reduces crime?
Wow! Go figure!
You havent proved that at all. You are assuming correlation equals causation.
Real slow for ya now… if crime is going down, why are prison populations going up?
If there is less crime, shouldnt we be sending FEWER people to jail? If there is less crime, why are we sending MORE people to jail?
Jail follows crime, not the other way around.
(Why do I bother? There are none so blind….)
Your assertion is wrong farmgirl.
In 1980, Jail did NOT follow crime, and that was the problem. Bleeding hearts didn’t want to punish the poor criminal.
Now Jail is much more likely to follow crime.
Before, the incarceration rate per crime was less. Now it is more.
The prison population is growing due to the stiffer sentences of those already in prisons. The new prisoners, which is the lower crime rate, are coming into the system but the total population does not go down because of the stiffer sentences being served.
So let’s say there are 500 already in prison with longer sentences than in previous years, these same 500 will still be there when new prisoners arrive.
Now do you get it?
What Indy says can be confirmed by Figure 5 on this link: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/fccp01.pdf
In 1986, Avg Federal prison sentence was 20 years. Avg actual sentence was 15 years.
In 2001, Avg Federal prison sentence was 42 years. Avg actual sentence was 30 years.
If you do the crime, now you will do more time!
Bleeding heart Libs surely will want to release all these crooks early. Just make sure they get released to YOUR neighborhood, not mine.
The only reason prison populations would go up, while violent crime rate is going down, means more people are being sentenced for non-violent crimes, duh.We’ll see how judges using their discretion will work, hope it works just fine. Kind of weird to think, most trials don’t even have a jury, so that gives a lot of power to the judges.
If you are a convicted felon, and you are caught buying pistols, and fully-automatic machine guns, should you expect to go to prison?
(Remember, it’s illegal for a convicted felon to buy, own, or possess firearms. It’s illegal for any civilian to own a fully-automatic firearm without having a very hard to get license for such weapon)
The drop in violent crime rates was exactily proportional to the drop in the percentage of people in age groups likely to commit crimes.
You can argue that abortion was responsible for the drop in crime rates.
I don’t know if the above is true, but it is at least as true as the b.s. blathered by gunsels. And btw, the crime rates are heading up again.
The drop in violent crime rates was exactily proportional to the drop in the percentage of people in age groups likely to commit crimes.
You can argue that abortion was responsible for the drop in crime rates.
I don’t know if the above is true, but it is at least as true as the b.s. blathered by gunsels. And btw, the crime rates are heading up again.
thinkfirst,You might actually try thinking first; unless you’re prepared to pay for life sentences without parole for every felony, at some point those people are going to be getting out of prison and moving into your neighborhood, with an even larger chip on their shoulders and even more exposure to career criminals. Mandatory sentencing may make you feel better, but it won’t make your kids safer. What we need is more work on reform and less on punishment.
Cite your source Door King.
How to you propose to Reform armed robbers, rapists, child molestors, attempted murderers, and murderers (especiallys those with multiple and repeat offenses) Jed?
Pat,I really don’t know how they would be reformed, since the research hasn’t been done, but unless you’re prepared to build a neverending supply of prisons at $50,000 and up per cell, and willing to support a continually growing prison population at $22-60,000 a year, some of them are going to be getting out of prison. I’d much rather some effort had been made to make them less dangerous before they get out than our current method of warehousing them with other felons so they can learn to be more adept at crime. Doing the research now could save considerable money and lives down the road.
3 dollar gasoline drives poor, the working poor and lower middle class and some middle class to crime.
Plus the loss of jobs.
Except that Ed, for the last several years, Property Crime Rates such as Robbery and Theft are still going down.
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/DownCrimeStatebyState.cfm/CrimeStatebyState.csv
If you want to argue that poverty drives crime, we had Higher Poverty in the 1960’s and Less Crime. Compare the poverty stats at this link below, to the crime stats I posted above:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/hstpov2.html
We have major problems with People and Society as a whole, which are not related to poverty. Personal responsibility is now out the window. Many people have a “I couldn’t care less” attitude and they do whatever they want – breaking the law as they please.
Government and their number 1 “Buddie” set the lawless example, so society is following suit, so to speak…
Jail overcrowding and population comparisons, plea-bargains and other considerations give stats wrong impressions sometimes.
3 dollar gasoline has gutted the lower classes. That’s a fact.
“We’ll see how judges using their discretion will work” Elephant
It was judges discretion which led to this problem to begin with. People were upset with judges liberally letting criminals go. Along came a united and vocal citizen network and THREE STRIKES YOU ARE OUT!!
The problem here is not too many inmates, that is a symptom of something else that liberals will want to address.
The problem is that there are not enough prisons. Build more. As a conservative, I will stand in line to GIVE you my money.
You don’t solve this by letting convicts go, reducing mandatory(oxymoron?) sentences, or by wondering what’s wrong with society.
If there are not enough beds, buy some more. More tent cities and more chain gangs. I’m most happy when inmates are unhappy. Those working in the facilities don’t want to hear this. But Correction Officers in the state of Kansas are paid chicken feed. We cannot even HIRE enough people to work at the state institutions!! Raise their salary and education. Not the education of the inmates.
Build them, and they will come….
…in a related story…
Justices Decline to Hear Murder Appeal
By BRIAN KNOWLTONPublished: October 15, 2007
WASHINGTON, Oct. 15 — The Supreme Court, with a single justice dissenting, declined today to take up an appeal from a man convicted of two murders who argued that his 30 years on death row in Arizona in itself constituted “cruel and unusual punishment.”
The justices thus rejected an appeal from Joe Clarence Smith, who was convicted of the murders in 1977, but whose death sentence has been twice set aside and twice reconfirmed, most recently in 2004.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/15/washington/15cnd-scotus.html?ex=1350100800&en=85ad82314fd1e3d9&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Here’s the wikipedia article. It’s at least as coherent as those of the gunsels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect
There are likely many reasons for the drop in crime, if in fact, it is real, as crime statistics depend on voluntary reporting. However, if you abort 500,000 male fetuses each year, you prevent 500,000 males from attaining the maturity at which males commit the most crimes. Didn’t the hero of the Right, William Bennet (one or two Ts?), once claim if you wanted to truly reduce crime you’d abort all the black male babies? BTW: abortion rates are highest among black women.
“”"There is no situation possible where the above could be true. All crimes, criminals and records are different. Why have a judge at all, if they are not going to judge?
As an example; one person who is mentally defficient could have committed three “armed” robberies with a plastic toy pistol, and another with a loaded Glock. These crimes are not the same, yet under the law, they could be.”"”
Armed robbery is armed robbery. Whether the gun is a toy or not is not important. The victims do not know the difference. Armed robbery should be a minimum of 10 years to serve on the first offense, 25 to serve on the second and life with no parole on any 3rd felony- even if it is for stealing a bike.
Actually when it comes to crime jails are only part of the equation. The thing that most deters crime is a visible and heavy handed police presence. The reason criminals do crimes is that they think they won’t be caught. So your best crime fighting dollar is spent on the police (certainty of capture). Secondly however is certainty of punishment and that is where your corrections dollars are good investments. Do you know one of the main reasons why Fulton County (Atlanta) Georgia has a bad crime problem while the neighbouring suburb of Cobb County (where we live) has much less crime? It is because the criminal element knows that the cops and courts out here don’t play. And juries and judges out here have no problem handing out long prison terms and the death penalty when warranted.
Crime rates are often controlled by demographics as well. When the population of young males goes down so does crime. When it goes up so does crime. The legalization of abortion in the 70s had alot to do with the falling crime rates in the 80s.
Why don’t we just kill all the men? I guess that would solve the problem.
For about a generation or so…
I when before the parole board today to speak against the parole of Albert Jones, a man who killed two family friends in very cruel and cold blooded way during a robbery in 1966. He left their two kids orphans and their family devastated. He was convicted of that crime and received two life sentences, to run concurrently..yet he was paroled after less than 25 yrs in 1990, only continue his crimial lifestyle and then was sent back to jail, only to be paroled again in 1993 to commit more crimes and then sent back to jail again. Altogether he has been up for parole 8 different times and is up for parole again now…so what exactly does life in prison mean?I’ll never figure out the justice system..he never gave his victims a chance, yet he has had numerous chances..where is the justice in this?
Anyway, it may be on the Channel 10 news tonight again…I know the Eagle is also doing a story on it.
Man am I tired!!! Please excuse all my typos!
there’s a lot of reasons for crime and failures of justice. For some reason Judge’s and DA’s dont want to punish criminals almost daily you read about some judge or da that lets a Child molester ,rapist, abuser go without probation or timed served. And they go on to continue with their crimes. Citizens dont want to pay taxes to build more jails prisons. Take a poll who supports raising taxes for the criminal justice system. As a society we make crimanals into heros Serial killers have fan clubs, and get marriage proposals from women even if the guys in prison for killing women in gruesome ways, Gangsters/Mafioso, bank robbers, old west gunslinger get thousands of books and movies made about them. Jesse James when he was exhumed and reburied had a honor guard. And we fill our prisons and jails with nonviolent victimless crime crimals that cause violent criminals to be released
For some reason Judge’s and DA’s dont want to punish criminals
Then why is our prison population at it’s highest level ever, and our rate of incarceration too?
Maybe it because we have a lot more criminals today..how many people who are incarcerated are innocent? As our values have broken down, so has our society.
If you fill prisons/jails with Victimless crime criminals then one you increase prison populations and you force prisons to release violent criminals early
What would consider a victimless crime? I can’t think of one that doesn’t affect others in some way.