Democrats went over the top by tapping a brain-injured 12-year-old to respond to President Bush’s Sept. 29 radio address about the State Children’s Health Insurance Program veto. But shame on Republicans for fighting back by attacking Graeme Frost (in photo) and his family in blogs and e-mails, spreading misinformation about their finances, their Baltimore home and even their kitchen countertops (they’re concrete, not granite). And about criticism that they could have afforded their own health insurance: The Frosts told the New York Times of having been turned away by three insurers recently because of pre-existing conditions.
If Graeme falls short as a poster child for the need for government-funded health care for lower-income kids, there’s another Maryland 12-year-old, Deamonte Driver, who died in February from an untreated toothache.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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73 Comments
CF2K has been waiting for this thread. Thanks, Rhonda–even if you are repeating the Wingnut spin on this matter.
So. Who wants to defend the Right Wing Blogosphere’s all-out attack on a middle class family’s legitimate participation in a Federal program?
This is part and parcel of the GOP’s Swift Boat smear campaigns since 2000. It’s just the same song, different verse.
By now, how can anyone profess surprise at the depths of human decency the GOP is willing (hell, eager) to plumb in order to lose an argument in the court of public opinion by “winning.”
Hell, I heard even Michelle Malkin was dumpster-diving at the Frost home. How low can they go?
ANS: Pretty damn low, I guess.
Graeme Frost, who gave the democrat rebuttal to George Bush’s reasons for vetoing the SCHIP Bill, is a middle school student at the exclusive$20,000 per year Park School in Baltimore, MD.
Graeme was in a severe car accident three years ago, and received care paid for by the government program known as SCHIP-(State Children’s Health Insurance Program)
His sister Gemma, also severely injured in the accident, attended the same school prior to the accident meaning the family was able to come up with nearly $40,000 per year for tuition for these 2 grade schoolers. Confirmation both attended Park found here using edit-”find on this page”-Gemma. It will take you to an article in the schools newspaper about a fundraiser for Gemma class of 16, and Graeme class of 13.
In a Baltimore Sun article the family claims to be raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. “Bonnie Frost works for a medical publishing firm; her husband, Halsey, is a woodworker. They are raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. Neither gets health insurance through work.”
What the article does not mention is that Halsey Frost has owned his own company “Frostworks”,since this marriage announcement in the NY Times in 1992 so he chooses to not give himself insurance. He also employed his wife as “bookkeeper and operations management” prior to her recent 2007 hire at the “medical publishing firm”. As her employer, he apparently denied her health insurance as well.
His company, Frostworks, is located at 3701 E BALTIMORE ST. A building that was purchased for $160,000 in 1999. The buildings owner is listed as DIVERSIFIED INDUSTRIAL DESIGN CENTER, LLC whose mailing address is listed as 104 S Collington Ave which is the Frost’s home. The commercial property he owns is also listed as the business address for another company called Reillys Designs which leads to the question of whether rental income is included in the above mentioned salary total
The current market value of their improved 3,040 SF home at 104 S Collington Ave is unknown but 113 S COLLINGTON AVE, also an end unit, sold for $485,000 this past March and it was only 2,060 SF. A photo taken in the family’s kitchen shows what appears to be a recent remodeling job with granite counter tops and glass front cabinets
One has to wonder that if time and money can be found to remodel a home, send kids to exclusive private schools, purchase commercial property and run your own business… maybe money can be found for other things…maybe Dad should drop his woodworking hobby and get a real job that offers health insurance rather than making people like me (also with 4 kids in a 600sf smaller house and tuition $16,000 less per kid and no commercial property ownership) pay for it in my taxes.
Make up your own minds.
Make up your own minds.Posted by: baldy | October 10, 2007 at 12:43 PM
“And about criticism that they could have afforded their own health insurance: The Frosts told the New York Times of having been turned away by three insurers recently because of pre-existing conditions.”
Private schools, commercial proverty — in short, all the Frost assets you covet — don’t amount to squat when you can’t buy insurance. They don’t last very long at all when used to ward off bankruptcy.
Jesus. Get a clue.
Pendant the rates you refer to were quoted after the accident. A responsible father would have insured his own family instead of falsifying his income and putting them on the governments dime.
His plan would have covered it if he had acted responsibly. This is the flaw in the whole Hillarycare debacle. Some people choose not to get their own insurance and put their kids in $20k private schools.
I wonder if we hear more about the accident something irresponsible like not requiring his kids to wear seat belts will come out. This would fit their parenting pattern.
“spreading misinformation”
TYPICAL. More WMDs from the BushBots – Words of Mass Disinformation.
You know, when Politicians bring out real people to use to score their political points, these people who volunteer to become their pawns should know that all their family details can and should come under the full scrutiny of the press.
In this case, the Democrats are pushing for Welfare for the Rich:
In a telephone interview, the Frosts said they had recently been rejected by three private insurance companies because of pre-existing medical conditions. “We stood up in the first place because S-chip really helped our family and we wanted to help other families,” Mrs. Frost said.
“We work hard, we’re honest, we pay our taxes,” Mr. Frost said, adding, “There are hard-working families that really need affordable health insurance.”
Democrats, including the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, have risen to the Frosts’ defense, saying they earn about $45,000 a year and are precisely the type of working-poor Americans that the program was intended to help.
The Frosts say the description of their family’s circumstances now circulating is misleading. Halsey, they say, is a self-employed woodworker – he has no employees – while Bonnie works part time for a medical publishing firm. Together, they say, they earn between $45,000 and $50,000 a year.
That would make the Frosts eligible for Maryland’s Children’s Health Program, which is open to families that earn no more than 300 percent of the federal poverty level, or $82,830 a year for a family of six.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/bal-te.frosts10oct10,0,2541063.story?page=2&coll=bal-opinion-utility
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/washington/10memo.html?hp
A question which has arisen about the Frosts in my mind, namely, does the private school which is attended by the two children offer financial aid? I am aware that both of the “non-affiliated” private schools here in Wichita do this for families whose students academically qualify to attend, but who are not able to pay the full tuition, as well as for families whose financial situation, due to medical bills, etc., have worsened. I’ve not seen where this question has been addressed.
The fact that there was a “fund raiser” by the students mentioned in one of the articles resulted in this question. Being around a private school, such occur when the students are aware that one of their classmates is on “financial aid”.
Private School! These people are rich enough to send their kids to private school at $20,000 a year and they still want a federal government hand out for health care?
They qualify for the state program, what more do they want?
Only the rich kids could go to private schools in my day.
(Hit “Post” too soon)
After “worsened” in next to last sentence of first paragraph, add “to the extent the school has funds available for this purpose and the families qualify under the formula used.”
Having had 3 grandchildren in private schools until their parents could no longer afford it – my question is ‘How would students ‘become aware’ of their financial circumstances. Of course if it were after the accident then I could see the fund raiser happening. The real question had to do with their ‘before accident’ income didn’t it?
ksgrm, from one of the articles I read, it appears the fundraiser occurred post-accident.
Vaughn I have a real problem with the way this whole insurance scam happened.
Going back to personal experience – My son and his wife sold a house and moved into a much smaller house. They then used their equity for 2 years of public schools for their three children. They live in Virginia and with the high cost of living there would probably qualify for public health care. They now home school because the funds ran out and they didn’t want to put the kids in public schools. They pay taxes just as we all do and get no break because they homeschool but now this family is suing their school district for the cost they incurred when their children should have been educated in the public schools.
These people are scam artists and I hope the IRS is following this closely. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck it is a duck. The lawyer in you surely tells you that.
I cant believe the people who would INVENT discrediting information about a family in the middle of a major catastrophe!!
That is despicable!!
Better check Snopes.com again KsGrm!! Looks like you are posting phony data again!!
I personally think the schip program is nothing more than a way to buy votes. What i want to know from those who support this is why does it have to be a federal program? If a city has people that ehey need to take care of, raise the taxes and do it as an act of caring for their citizens. If a state has people they need to take care of, raises the the taxes as an act of caring for their citizens. WHy push it up to the Federal level. If you feel compelled to help these people, why not start a 501c3 to help these people with private funds. WHy not give to those 501c3s already set up to do so. Why not volunteer at clinics, and hospitals, and ems providers? Surely you can find something to suit your indiviudual talents.
it is the same old stuff. Everyvody wants something, sometimes not for themselves, but for someone else. Everybody wants somebody else to pay. THe only reason it is a federal program. THose for it want somebody else to pay for it.
ksgrm, looked at the link to the article in the header post. It seems the young man is in the private school on scholarship. The business was dissolved in 1999. The residence was purchased for $55,000, now valued at $260,000. There is a commercial building, rental income; article does not indicate if the building is encumbered. Dad is self-employed woodworker and welder; Mom is a part-timer.
Issue to me is whether SCHIP should be means-tested, that is, should there be an asset test as well as the income test. The Maryland program does not means test.
Don’t understand the comment about suing the schools.
cant believe the people who would INVENT discrediting information about a family in the middle of a major catastrophe!!
That is despicable!!
Posted by: Chas. | October 10, 2007 at 01:59 PM
I agree. Completely.
Anoher 13 year old gun slinger shoots up another school!! Seems he is dead now, as well….
So, how did the kid get access to a gun, and know what ammo to use???
Guns not locked up, and ammo with them… That would have helped this case a lot!!
The kid attends private school because he earned a scholarship.
I suppose some of you would feel better about the incipient scourge of American communism (as if) if they coughed up the scholarship, declared personal bankruptcy, and basically liquidated just so some insurance company could make a profit?—————————-From Max’s NYT link:”As it turns out, the Frosts say, Graeme attends the private school on scholarship. The business that the critics said Mr. Frost owned was dissolved in 1999. The family’s home, in the modest Butchers Hill neighborhood of Baltimore, was bought for $55,000 in 1990 and is now worth about $260,000, according to public records. And, for the record, the Frosts say, their kitchen counters are concrete.
Certainly the Frosts are not destitute. They also own a commercial property, valued at about $160,000, that provides rental income. Mr. Frost works intermittently in woodworking and as a welder, while Mrs. Frost has a part-time job at a firm that provides services to publishers of medical journals. Her job does not provide health coverage.
Under the Maryland child health program, a family of six must earn less than $55,220 a year for children to qualify. The program does not require applicants to list their assets, which do not affect eligibility.”
**Anoher = Another
Hey, brain-damaged 12 year old vs. Geo. Bush? Seems like a fair fight.
Well Anon I will tell you what I told JR yesterday. If you have a family with needs and you have the skills to support them then you should find an employer with good benefits and sell those skills. Finish carpenters are the highest paid skilled profession in construction. Chas excuse all you want but a man with a family has a duty to take care of that family and so should the mother help. Gotta Run.
Looks like Ks Grm isnt even going to TRY checking on Snopes.com… So, she posts a bunch of half-baked garbage about a NEEDY family, and runs off to do something… which is OK… But she will villify any body who tries to find support for this Family in Maryland…
That is what disturbs me greatly!!
Lets all sing praises to Jesus, while we STOMP on some needy family… Absolutely amazing!!
Just to make it clear, the Democrats did the inventing here…
Oops.. the gun slinging teen was FOURTEEN, not 13… Kid entered the school with TWO guns blazing… Two Dead, plus the shooter…. Kid was recently suspended…. now shot dead… Must be perfectly OK with some folks, that the kid had easy access to weapons… I just dont know what to think of this kind of thing….
Gotta run… need a couple of things for dinner later….
No surprise, to see the likes of ksgrm and Max peddling discredited Repuke spin. If a fact doesn’t fit their mythical “personal responsibility” worldview, so much the worse for the fact.
Max: so, a combined income of $45,000 makes the Frosts “rich.” I see. Always instructive to see what Wingnuts will insist qualifies one as “poor.”
Well, Wingnuts, it is your decision as what to believe. But it never ceases to amaze the depths to which you’ll stoop, and the lies you’ll repeat, in order to avoid admitting defeat.
$45,000 to $50,000 makes them poor?
A family of six? Hell yes.
I mean, seriously, Max, stop pretending you have any idea of what you’re talking about.
Or don’t. It’s your choice whether to go on embarrassing yourself.
And here, Ezra Klein calls out Michelle Malkin as the bimbo provocateur she is. If Michelle Malkin wants to go on the attack against the Frosts, let her defend herself in a stand-up debate.
“”It’s militant leftist bloggers,” writes Malkin, “who wouldn’t know a good-faith argument if it bit them in the lip.” Let’s have a good faith argument. I will debate Michelle Malkin anytime, anywhere, in any forum (save HotAir TV, which she controls), on the particulars of S-CHIP. We can set the debate at a think tank, on BloggingHeads, over IM. Hell, we can set up the podiums in the shrubbery outside my house, since that seems to be the sort of venue she naturally seeks out. And then if Malkin wants an argument, she can have one. We’ll talk S-CHIP and nothing but — nothing of the Frosts, or Congress, or her blog.
My sense has been that Malkin doesn’t want an argument. Rather, she wants to feed her readers the steady stream of outrage that keeps her traffic numbers up. But I realized tonight that I could be wrong, and I shouldn’t assume Malkin doesn’t want a real argument unless I actually ask her.
So c’mon Michelle: Let’s debate health care. Prove to the world that you really want “a good-faith argument.” We can talk crowd-out, and cross-subsidization, and whether lower-middle class entrepreneurs are able to procure health care on the individual market. If this is a policy argument you care so deeply about as to travel to the Frost family’s house to see if they really deserved S-CHIP benefits, surely you’ll want to set up a web cam and talk through the issue.”
http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/speaking-accura.html
Michelle Malkin is the scum of the earth. Max and ksgrm aren’t far behind.
“…that the kid had easy access to weapons…”Posted by: Chas.
How did he get the weapons?
Not making the news up are you?
So by some people’s opinions the only time that you are allowed to ask for help to “Maintain” is after you lose everything including the clothes on your back?I am not trying to be sympathetic to the Frost family situation but you have to give them some credit.You have Mr. Frost a self employed woodworker trying to make a business by being self-efficient, relying on his skills.Mrs. Frost is working too and the two of them are trying to provide the best education for their children.This is something that every parent should do for their kids, right?Every one of us should try to be responsible for our own actions rather than depending on others to provide us our living or our lifestyles.This is something that every average middle class family should do, right?Maybe lifestyle is the real problem when we define who it is that should be helped, which brings you right back to the start of my comment.
“So by some people’s opinions the only time that you are allowed to ask for help to “Maintain” is after you lose everything including the clothes on your back”
So by some people’s opinions the only time that you are allowed to ask for help to “Maintain” is after you lose everything including the clothes on your back”
Posted by: Wiseman | October 10, 2007 at 02:42 PM
Not quite. The only time you should ask for help is when you can;t do anything else. ANd it shouldn;t be a way of life. It should be temporary.
You should also be asked to contribute to society in some way, if possible. THat means volunteering. Helping others who cannot help themselves, or helping to take care of the city, or something.
I am a liberal and I have to say that this time the right wing is correct. This family should be ashamed of themselves for begging for handouts from taxpayers in order to maintain their lifestyle. The evidence is clear that they are not poor and do not deserve the help.
1. The father is self employed, if health insurance is important to him and his family, he should arrange to buy it or find a job that provides it as a benefit. How many people including seniors work a crappy job just so they can have insurance?
2. The mother only works part time, she should work extra hours before asking taxpayers to foot the bill for her leisure time.
3. Their annual income is $45k, which is higher than the median income in this country. They make more money than at least half the people in this country and expect a handout?
4. They own real estate with a market value of at least $420,000. Perhaps selling some of their assets and renting would be a good idea. How can anybody support taxpayer funded welfare for a family that has a net worth approaching half a million dollars?
5. Private school for two kids? Do I even need to say more?
This family and their supporters are shameful con artists. They are solidly middle class and seemingly doing fine without even working all that hard. For them to ask for taxpayers, many of whom make and own far less, to help cover their living expenses is ridiculous.
As sad as I am to say it, the GOP and the right wing media and blogs are doing the right thing by calling out this family for their BS.
If baldy is correct, it appears that the Frosts have taken everyone for a ride, especially the Democrats.
Scott, you need to pull your head out of a certain recess.
A few problems with your little scenarios there
A) This family has three OTHER children, including another child who was seriously injured in the same car crash. I seriously doubt the mother is having “leisure” time – More than likely, they cannot afford for her to work more than part time due to child care expenses.
B) Just because someone has skills that could be marketable doesn’t mean they are. Is he a self taught woodworker or did he have an apprenticeship? The construction industry that was alluded to above frequently will NOT hire unless you did an apprenticeship, which is unpaid, you have to pay for it, and it EXTREMELY time consuming. As well, if there is a woodworkers unions in their area, it could be that he is unable to get a job because of all the union workers “on the books” waiting for one. In that scenario, it does seem that working for himself makes the most sense.
C) $45G for a six person family is SOLIDLY MIDDLECLASS? You ARE kidding me, right? ESPECIALLY in an East Coast state, with a CONSIDERABLY higher cost of living than here.
D) Sell their house for profit and then rent? Great idea for present day immediate cash needs. NOT a great plan in the long run. Based on what they purchased their home for, I would be willing to bet their mortgage is MUCH less than what they would have to pay in rent for an apartment large enough for the family, much less a comparable home. We would just wind up paying them for much more in the long run.
E) There is hardly anyone out there who is financially prepared for a family member to suffer a catastrophic injury, insured or not. Many families go without insurance so they can pay other bills, HOPING that nothing like this will happen. Many others are uninsurable, even without catastrophic injury. My sister has had several medical conditions since birth, included Kidney problems and Eye problems. When she graduated from college and was no longer eligible to be covered under my fathers insurance, she had a VERY hard time finding someone who would insure her with her “preexisting” conditions. There is no way to know if they were uninsurable before the accident as we are NOT before the accident.
Your arguments beg much. Perhaps doing a little research on your own before spouting off someone else’s “facts” would be helpful.
I seriously doubt that you would find many people “jumping on the bandwagon” to “take advantage of federally funded healthcare” as this type of healthcare is INCOME BASED – meaning it is NOT free, you still pay a premium on it, and it is much more limiting than regular insurance. But it does provide those who do not HAVE insurance the opportunity to GET it. BTW – do you have any idea the cost of insurance for a small business? No way could this couple with their modest income afford it… again – do a little research first…
Anon,
You are quite simply an idiot. Why should me and other taxpayers foot the bill for a family that has not exhausted their own resources? It is insane to suggest that taxpayers should foot the bill for this family while they are earning more than the median household income and have a net worth in of about a half million dollars. I am sorry that life dealt them a bad hand, but it is not mine or any other person’s responsibility to pick up the tab when they are unwilling to do anything to help themselves.
1. They chose to have children and should have been prepared to deal with the expenses. It is not the duty of other people to help you pay for your lifestyle choices.
2. Cry me a river about the marketability of his woodworking skills. If he can’t provide for his family with his chosen profession, it is time for him to find another line of work. Once again, why is it the taxpayers’ responsibility to foot his bills so he can continue to his inadequate career as a woodworker?
3. 45K is the median household income in this country. That means that this family already makes more than half of the households in the United States. To me, that would be a textbook definition of middle class. Do you really need a handout when you are already richer than 50% of the people from which you expect the government to steal money from on your behalf?
4. I have zero sympathy for scumbags like this family that expect taxpayers to foot their bills so that they don’t have to dip into their nestegg. It is disgusting to suggest that the rest of the taxpayers should cough up their hard earned money so they don’t have to sell their 260K house or 160K commercial property. Do you really think that people with real estate portfolios worth more than $400k deserve welfare. Wouldn’t that make just about every family in Wichita eliglible for a taxpayer funded handout? This family should be willing to exhaust their own funds before they ask the government to force others to foot their bills.
This family is a disgrace and this episode is a real black eye for the Dems. With this one stupid mistake they have lost any credibility that they might have had on similar issues. As a hardcore liberal, I think that the government and citizens have a duty to help people with the basics of life like housing, healthcare and food, but only if they are truly in need which this family is not. Forcing taxpayers to provide welfare for a family earning the median income that has a net worth of at least $500K is morally bankrupt.
Scott finally a liberal I can respect. Thank you for exposing the hipocracy of the bloggers here who try to shame those who expect parents to take care of the children they choose to have. Their circumstances didn’t begin the day after the accident. It was formed much earlier. If these type of scammers were removed from the system then an honest dialogue about where healthcare needs to go could happen.
Anon and Chas if my son and if wife could make a decision to No one likes an ignorant blowhard who thinks he knows it all like you J R.
I believe you have already been banned there “kansas”. Isn’t that correct?
Outing people? You make an extraordinary claim. That begs proof.
Oh? And I don’t think you’d like the tally of opinion on who should stay and who should go.
Wave your wand if you have one.
I make my own appeal to the editors. I’m problematic for a few people. Mr “kansas” JM pickanic is a nemesis with many names.
CF2K wants to take back something he said upthread.
Michelle Malkin, he said, was the scum of the Earth, and ksgrm and Max weren’t far behind.
But then ksgrm wrote this regarding the Frosts:
“This is a classic example of irresponsible parents. Not enough car insurance for the ‘black ice’ we all hit every now and then. And as for the long term care these children will need – the long term injuries aren’t as bad as Chas and Pmom would have us believe. These children are both able to attend school.
Heck I have a cousin in Cleveland who is a rocket scientist (he works for NASA) and he has always walked with a limp and had a lisp. He was born that way and no one ever told him he couldn’t be a rocket scientist so he just became one.”
As Hank Hill says, that tears it. Congratulations, ksgrm: you’ve sunk to Michelle Malkin’s level.
I believe it may be appropriate to start referring to you as “ksgramalkin.”
No one likes an ignorant blowhard who thinks he knows it all like you J R.Posted by: Kansas | October 11, 2007 at 08:43 AM
I’m fascinated by people who are easily offended by traits that utterly define their own self yet when seen in others drive them crazy. This would seem to be a textbook case.
You 2 are peas of the very same pod, but on different ends (it’s not a legume pod; instead it’s one of the nutty ones).
Pot, meet kettle.
ksgrm,
That which I posted yesterday about the house and two cars was in response to lj’s post about personal liability. I was pointing out what is exempt from execution by creditors to satisfy a judgment in Kansas.
As to means testing for most SRS administered “aid”, the residence is an exempt asset; one auto is exempt for this purpose. By exempt, those assets are not counted in determining eligibility. However, in the case of Medicaid, at least, these assets are subject to the claim of SRS on the death of the person who received the aid, so long as there is no surviving spouse living in the residence (or intending to return) or a dependent child. If either of the latter apply, the SRS claim is deferred until the death of the spouse, etc., but eventually, the residence may be sold and the proceeds used to repay, in part (usually) the amounts paid by SRS for the care of the person. Yes, these claims may be settled for less than the total amount.
This is for clarification, and is also very general in nature.
For all those who beleive that health care is a universal right, or at least “affordable” health care is a universal right, Please define
1) why it is a Universal right2) What is “affordable”3) WHat type of plan?4) How it should be paid for.
I am listening. The country is listening. Just constantly bleating about “evreybody deserves affordable healthcare” does nothing to advance your argument.I am listening to your proposal.
I don’t get on these blogs often because I get so frustrated with the name calling and inability to debate honestly and respectfully. I’m referring to you lefties (CF2K and Chas in particular)…who on the opposite side of this debate brought up Limbaugh or Malkin in their argument? State your case and take your BDS meds.
Ksgermie, you are a veeeeeerrrry irresponsible citizen. How DARE you not plan ahead for your layoff so you could pay for your OWN college education?
Why didnt you plan for your outdated skills? Why didnt you PLAN for a layoff?
Why didnt you pay for your OWN college education? Didnt you exhaust ALL your resources before putting your hand out for hard earned taxpayer money to benefit YOU and YOU alone?
Damn germie. HOW could you be so irresponsible as to NOT plan ahead.
And Kansas, you were NOT disabled as a result of your service. You served. Then you were disabled.
Why didnt you PLAN AHEAD for that disablility? Why were you so unprepared for an accident. Accidents, like black ice, happen every day.
Yet you were SO SURE the socialist state would take care of you, and fund your internet lifestyle, so you didnt HAVE to plan ahead?
WTF kansas, you didnt KNOW you needed PRIVATE disability insurance at some point in the future? Or you just joined the military for its socialst benefits?
Jesus wept. Has the word irony completely been eliminated from the dictionary?
Apparantly not if kansas is complaining about trolls…
Farmie the fact that I only needed 18 hours for my degree would give a thinking person a clue that I had been paying for my education as I went along. Updating my skills as needed on my own dime. I wasn’t ‘the only one’ that received this benefit. There were hundreds of us.
CF what you say matters not to me. Your name calling is very close to WSClark as I have told you in the past. He leaves and you show up. Convenient.
He and JR threatened my business and me. I didn’t complain to anyone. Perhaps I should have.
VT my point was that neither parent works by their own admission. Therefore the need for a car wouldn’t be there.
Just a what if – If this wife came to you and wanted to hire you to represent her in a divorce battle – what is the first thing you would look at. This family lives well, drives decent cars per the description in the news article about the accident, has a recently remodeled house, their children were clothed in good looking clothes – could there be some hidden income somewhere.
You don’t pay taxes on income you don’t declare. It also doesn’t stop you from being means tested for additional benefits. Many self employed people do this. They tell the employer to pay them as contract workers. We got caught in the middle of this with the IRS and one of our ‘contract’ employees. We no longer do that.
Don’t want to revive this argument today so will stop with this post talking about the Frosts.
Heh. When germie gets her ASS handed to her, she stops the posting. How conveeeeeenient.
SO… germie, since you are a PARAGON of self sufficiency and planning ahead…
…why didnt you pay for the LAST 18 hours yourself? Just couldnt resist the public handout? I mean, if you could afford all but 18, why reach into the taxpayer’s pocket to pay for the last 18?
“I wasn’t ‘the only one’ that received this benefit. There were hundreds of us.”
Oh, I get it. So in conservative land, if there are HUNDREDS sucking off the public teat, that makes it ok?
Jesus wept. Do you even THINK before you post?
Nice try welfare queen. We see your self sufficient, plan ahead strategy for what it is.
Convenient until you can get your hands into the socialist welfare state benefits….
I invite you to show where I “threatened” you ksgrm.
That’s a lie.
I DID say if I knew what business you were in I would boycott it. Do you have a problem with a free market decision?
GO on run back into the bushes with Michelle Malkin.
Farmie to even attempt to justify my actions to you would be an exercise in futility. The bitterness you carry everyday must get heavy.
The important fact about the hundreds of others in this with me pointed up the fact that the unemployment percentage was high and so new programs were implemented to fix this. By the way this was under your boy Bill. It wouldn’t happen now under Bush with a low unemployment rate.
Pull in your fangs for a minute and look at what I posted. To go on with this discussion would acomplish no useful purpose. You’d call me names, JR would call me names, CF, whoever he is would call me names, I would fire back a sarcastic reply and so it would go all day. Just don’t feel like that today.
OK with you.
And yes ‘Jesus Wept’ we agree on that one.
Farmie the fact that I only needed 18 hours for my degree would give a thinking person a clue that I had been paying for my education as I went along. Updating my skills as needed on my own dime. Posted by: ksgrm | October 11, 2007 at 10:13 AM
You paid for it alone? Or did Boeing help? My guess is that your dime was supplemented by Boeing’s dime or you wouldn’t have that degree.
Also, if you want to know why those on the Left reserve a special level of disrespect for you, ksgrm, then you could note in this and your previous posts where you scorn moral relativism in others, yet indulge in it yourself, when it’s to your benefit (”I wasn’t ‘the only one’ that received this benefit. There were hundreds of us.” Replace the phrase “received this benefit” with “killed Jews in our village” and you have precisely the argument used by Germans in post-WWII to justify genocide. Note: I am noting how effortlessly you selectively engage in moral relativism, I am not accusing you of genocide.)
Your writing is so clear, and I for one appreciate the effort you make to so clearly stand out as a hopeless hypocrite.
JR I don’t have the original posts but know that I didn’t post for a long time after that. You or WS threatened to go to my place of business and warn others not to go there.
Funny you should remember the threat but couldn’t remember the name of the book you agreed to read if I would see ‘An Inconvient Truth’ which I did. Just another liberal lie I guess.
You or WS threatened to go to my place of business and warn others not to go there.
Yeah so? Free market right? Like O’reilly boycotting France.
“The important fact about the hundreds of others in this with me pointed up the fact that the unemployment percentage was high and so new programs were implemented to fix this.”
Heheheheh!
So germie, that STILL doesnt explain why you thought it was ok, despite your “planning ahead” for a layoff, you let the TAXPAYERS pick up the cost of your last 18 hours.
No name calling. Just wonder why it is ok for you to get your degree on the taxpayer dime, but OTHER folks who need help were just bad planners.
You DID need government help to complete your degree, right?
I mean, you wouldnt have taken it if you didnt NEED it…
… would you?
Remember… in germie land…
need = not planning ahead.
So which is it germie? Did you not plan ahead, or did you not really need that education welfare, but took it anyway, just because “hundreds” of others did it too?
ksgrmalkin,
Pedant gets it exactly right. When you employ a double-standard that exempts you, expect to be called on it.
Moreover, when you voice repugnant sentiments that demonstrate your need to justify yourself by blaming the victim, you should expect ridicule.
Coming from your lips, the name “Jesus” sounds like profanity.
ksgrmalkin,
And I see that your nutcase namesake Michelle Malkin has chickened out of debating SCHIP with Ezra Klein.
http://www.mahablog.com/
Pendant thank you for the clear lesson in semantics you just gave me. You made several erronious judgements but if I pointed this out you and yours would jump on me again and I don’t feel like fighting the mob today. Judge away.
Is that an admission of hypocrisy?
DING DING DING DING DING!
Ladies and gents, I think we have a winner…
This is just a fleck in the whole box of problems ksgrm.
Wouldn’t it be interesting to look at the entire HillaryCare! plan with as much detail and scrutiny that is given to the Frost family? (Which by the way, was brought up by the Democrats)
Libs truly want to focus on their anecdotes, rather then a rational look at the facts on a macro level, to make their case for the needs for HillaryCare! for the entire country.
Still, even focusing on just one example, the Dems even screw that one up. Makes you wonder how they’ll screw up the health care system on the macro level.
(I think max must secretly be hot for hill, and for obama, given his/her fixation on them…)
Actually, ksfarmgrrl, max is scared sh**less by the very thought of a woman or a black running the country. Wouldn’t it be nice?????:-;
Actually I’d be happy with Condy Rice as POTUS.
Conservative and bright.
Obama and Hillary = Liberal Socialists.
And looky here: evidence that Don Stewart, Communications Director for Senator Mitch Mc Connell, was involved in the smear campaign against the Frosts. Here’s an email:
“Seen the latest blogswarm? Apparently, there’s more to the story on the kid (Graeme Frost) that did the Dems’ radio response on SCHIP. Bloggers have done a little digging and turned up that the Dad owns his own business (and the building it’s in), seems to have some commercial rental income and Graeme and a sister go to a private school that, according to its website, costs about $20k a year ‹for each kid‹ despite the news profiles reporting a family income of only $45k for the Frosts. Could the Dems really have done that bad of a job vetting this family?
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/11/mcconnell-staffer-smear-graeme/
As usual, the Republican fish rots from the head.
Max said,
“Libs truly want to focus on their anecdotes, rather then a rational look at the facts on a macro level…”
Well, Max, Michelle Malkin doesn’t agree with the need for “a rational look at the facts on a macro level”: after all, she chose to run away from a challenge issued by Ezra Kline to debate SCHIP.
Wingnuts: character assassains, liar, and hypocrites, one and all.
“For all those who beleive that health care is a universal right, or at least “affordable” health care is a universal right, Please define
1) why it is a Universal right2) What is “affordable”3) WHat type of plan?4) How it should be paid for.
I am listening. The country is listening. Just constantly bleating about “evreybody deserves affordable healthcare” does nothing to advance your argument.I am listening to your proposal.”
Posted by: littlejohn | October 11, 2007 at 09:22 AM
========================
YES, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT THEY MEAN.
If the bloggers are issuing “misinformation”, why is your only correction that the kitchen counters are concrete rather than marble? Where is your curiosity about family income, about family assets. If all of it is wrong, I have no problem with you exposing the inaccuracies, but I do have to ask: where was your professional curiosity that night after the airing of the kid’s complaints? Why do you put yourself in the position of reacting instead of instigating the investigation that should naturally come from being a professional journalist?
“Your writing is so clear, and I for one appreciate the effort you make to so clearly stand out as a hopeless hypocrite.”
Oh come on.
If your choices were: 1) I am a hopeless hypocrite or 2) being the good person I am, I made good use of that help – it is other people who don’t use those resources wisely who are the problem.
Which would you choose?
I have posted other places where this is a beautiful example of reducing cognitive dissonance by self-justification. We all do it. It is normal and exerts powerful effects on us when our behavior and attitudes are so grossly in conflict with one another. [That was a cue for his exalted snarkiness to make some grossly uniformed comment about CD.]
[That was a cue for his exalted snarkiness to make some grossly uniformed comment about CD.]
For clarity – that was for our favorite troll.
Republicans (except Sen. Roberts) voted against SCHIP. The I got mine crowd. I guess they don`t care if a kid dies. Dosen`t surprise me though. When was the last time you heard a Kansas Republican express remorse for the thousands of Iraqui children killed by our war over there. The problem is with that is those 12 year olds we didn`t kill are now 17 year old terrorists. Can you blame them?