You know the Republican Party is in trouble when the public trusts Democrats much more on foreign policy, the economy and the budget — traditional GOP strengths. Democrats have a 15-point lead over Republicans on Iraq, an 18-point lead on the economy, and a 23-point lead on the federal budget deficit, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll. Democrats also have a 30-point lead on health care. The only issue favoring Republicans was the campaign against terrorism, and that was by only 1 percentage point.
The poll also found that nearly 70 percent of the public wants Congress to reduce President Bush’s $190 billion funding request for Iraq and Afghanistan, and 70 percent support the proposed expansion of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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134 Comments
And 80 percent want to stop illegal aliens from coming across the border.
And Kansas is right, for verying reasons the majority do want something done to stop the flow over the boader. The fact that one of the strongest allies of free travel across the broader. Is the President is a msytery.
Well, duh . . . who else has screwed up foreign policy, spent the taxpayers money like it grows on trees, and has shown a penchant for killing people in a foreign country at the expense of saving the lives of American children?
Why, none other than your favorite Republicans. Yep, you guys sure have America’s interests at heart . . . well, so long as it also pads your wallet. One doesn’t need polls to see that.
We are going to take away the terror issue too. We need to make TV ads that show small parts of all of Ben Laden’s videos with the date of each one imposed and at the end simply say “Ben Laden has made more videos than Britney Spears and yet Bush says we can’t find him. It’s because Bush ain’t looking for him”.
With all that’s gone on for the past 6 1/2 years, I’m amazed that anyone still supports the GOP. Republicans have used the U.S. Treasury like it was their own private sandbox and they’ve run this country into the ground.
Expect some really dirty politics this election. The repubs will do anything to keep power. I’ll be watching for an OBL video just before the election.
Dream on, kool-aid drinkers, dream on…
The Repubulicans do have one thing going for them. The Democrats will screw things up while in power on the economy, tax and the defecit.
But it might take 1,2 more elections for the publicn to get tired of the Ds.
We watch and hear the Democratic Party state that Democrats are so nice for America. Yet it was the Democrats that recently created hell for my family and other union workers in Northern New Mexico! Back in 1999, GTE was selling its New Mexico units. One of the potential buyers that eventually did buy the Espanola Unit was a company (dba Communications at that time), set up by a group of Democratic business people, including the wife of Senator Jeff Bingaman, Tony Anaya, etc. In order to “sweeten” the deal, GTE offered to lay off some of the workers. This was done despite the fact this “layoff” would definitely hurt the operations and was NOT needed. My husband was one of those slated to be cut off. Several of the other union workers were also in great fear, considering their financial needs at the time, and also knowing the status of the operations and worker level requirements.
This group of Democratic buyers ACCEPTED the layoff offer, never minding how it would hurt and harm workers and families needlessly! We wondered how something like this could just be passed off as “acceptable for the sale” by New Mexico Democrats! Many of the workers at the Espanola office were scared to death over being forced to quit, just so this new company could buy out GTE. Several workers approached the representative of the union, Communication Workers of America (CWA), but they did nothing to help the union members out! What was my husband paying the monthly union dues for when no one stood up for him against this great injustice? I wonder if CWA got something financial out of this to not say anything against the sale?
The GTE telecommunication workers later were handed out copies of some of the sales announcements, which included the names of the people managing and running the buying company! Democrats have NO excuse for pointing the fingers at anyone else when there are examples like this (and many others) of Democrats messing up workers (and their families) under their supervision/control!
Catherine, layoffs happen no matter what organization is running things.
Time for the GOP to return tho the political wilderness in which it belongs. The occasional noise or sighting of them is useful and educational. But mostly they belong away from civilized society.
Where’s my free money???!!!
I want my handouts and I want them now!!!!!!!!!!
I have two kids. I want $10,000
RETROactively!!!
I want my money!!
You OWE it to me.
Give me my FREEEEE MONEEEEEEEEY!
I DEMAND my free healthcare and I want it now!!!!
It is a RIGHT, not an entitlement.
It’s in the American Constititution.
I have a right life, liberty, and free healthcare.
Come on damn it!
Bring it on!!!
There is a nice SUV down the road and I can afford payments if I disenroll from my healthcare at work.
Hurry the fk up!!!
My poor kids are loosing their teeth. It’s for the children for Xhrist sake!
Those poor, poor, children.
Hurry the heck up!
I want my free stuff and want it NOW!!!!
Interesting Junior,
“. . .return to the political wilderness. . .”
When, has the republican party ever been in the “political wilderness”?
I’m not as afraid of the upcoming elections as the democrats seem to be. Hillary will soon be anointed as the democrat’s presidential candidate and rather she wins in ‘08 or not she will probably damage her party more than her husband did.
It has to really suck to be a liberal democrat trapped in a red state! I look forward to a lot of fun in the next year!
I still love ya,
Hank
I’m running out of patience.
If you don’t promise me the FREE STUFF (moon), I will switch parties and vote republican.
Where is the free stuff?
I want my free healthcare NOW!!
I demand 5,000 for each of my children.
It’s a gd damn right!!!
Chill out Wahawk.
All good things in time.
You will get free healthcare, college education, handouts, and so much more.
Just wait.
Watch for the new sign at the border:
Welcome to the United Socialist States of America.
Hank, there is no way Hillary could damage this nation worse than the republicans.
Yes,she’ll be left to clean up what you’ve done. And it might take awhile. But at least we’ll be on the right track for healing.
Will it be utopia?
Will the democrats not come in my mouth, if I trust them?
We know the republicans are devils from Satan. They have 666 secretly tatooed on their heads.
They are even more evil than our sworn enemy: Osama Bin Laden.
Democrats are angels from God and all of them are saints.
God Bless them.
If she called it a tax cut, would that make you happy Wahawk?
Which by the way, I don’t support EITHER.
But thankfully she can’t do anything without congress approval. Oh wait, maybe she can since King George changed the rules.
Praise God.
Please vote only for democrats.
Please vote and support the pullout of american forces from all arabic countries. God willing we will be successful together.
Please vote and support candidate who will stop the American Israeli war against Palestinian people. God willing we will be successful together.
Please vote and support leaders who will remove american forces from bases in arab countries. God willing we will be successful together.
Praise God.
This new development must really chafe the reichwingnuts to no end.
I love it!
All Hail President Clinton, Hillary that is!
The years of infinite stupidity (and national disgrace, 2001-2009)are almost over.
And now we know the rest of the story: Why Hillary really wants to repeal the tax cuts the republicans put in.
She needs that FREE MONEY so she can give 5,000 to EVERY child born in the USA. Estimate 20 Billion.
Hillary’s socialized medicine will top 50 billion.
By God we will make those sinful rich people pay. We will take their money away!!!
Those filthy rich,those stuck up bit-ch,we will take all their money away!
Need a little cheese with that whine, Wahawk?
Not sure that is Hillary’s platform there Wahawk. But it should be. I’ll vote for that!
Need a little cheese with that whine, Wahawk?
Posted by: Blaidd_Drwg
No thanks. I don’t need your government free cheese.
I have plenty in life. Don’t need 5,000 for my kids but I will take it. Hell, I’m telling all my offspring to have a dozen of them. Get all that free cheeze from the gubermint. Hell yes, they will help save social security, free healthcare, and every other entitlement (oops I meant RIGHT) for the people.
More and more reichwingnut crying around here lately!
Pretty funny to watch the Wingnuts morph back into John Birch-style anti-socialists at the possibility of a historical power shift back to the majority Democrats. Hysteria and name calling from the Right: so what else is new?
As if Republican domestic and foreign policies aren’t driving us to the brink of economic collapse, social unrest, and international irrelevance. Am I better off than I was seven years ago? Hell the f*ck no I’m not! And neither is the the majority of SANE people in America.
It’s what Wingnuts do best: shout from the sidelines. When they run the game, the American people lose.
Wingnuts, YOUR failed policies and inability to live in reality are to blame for your change in political fortunes. So don’t whine about how Democrats are going to turn America totalitarian: you’ve already done a fine job of it, thanks.
Somebody the other day, somewhere, wrote that Karl Rove’s policies had been intended to create a majority party in American politics. They have–just not the party he thought.
Blaidd_Drwg, I think I’ll be protected as much as I can. Moving as much as possible to tax exempt. Not sure my old Roth’s are protected, Hillary may have to tax those along with 401K’s, but I don’t qualify for Roth’s anymore anyway, so nothing I can do there. Off shore still attractive, but some risk, and possibly taxes still will be do.
Thought of Canada, went there once in the 1960’s. But dollar is no bargain over the looney anymore, plus they tax the hell out of the Kanacks now. Mexico is attractive. Can still collect SS and pension overseas.
But anyone concerned about higher taxes and the lost tax breaks needs to start looking now.
And, don’t think this is just a scheme of the filthy rich. If your combined income is over 80K, Hillary is coming after you too.
Protect your investments. Call your broker or FP today!
You, and the other wingnuts, moving to Canada or elsewhere is a great idea!
Be sure to take your lord and savior, bush, with you!
And neither is the the majority of SANE people in America. Posted by: CF2K
This sounds pretty in your writing, but it means nothing. Unless of course, you are implying that the only sane people are poor (joint household income). Many, many Americans, are doing better financially than in 2000 on just income alone.
But it sounds great and really sets off your paragraph.
Just keep letting George W. Bush talking (or stammering, falling over himself with those big, big words like ‘nuclear’) and the numbers of anti-Republican will grow even more.
Especially when Bush lets Cheney have his wish and invade Iran!
Especially when Bush lets Cheney have his wish and invade Iran!
Posted by: maidmarion
Pssst! We are saving that for Hillary. Maybe she will give them free fuel/coal. Like her hubby gave North Korea to stop building atomic bombs.
Bill Clinton is a democrat, and you can trust him.
Just look at my blue dress and you will know that is true.
He pulled out!
And you can trust the Kennedy boys too.
With the dollar falling daily against foreign currencies, you’ll be hard pressed to find a country where you can live in affluence on your greenback. Sad part is that a weak dollar no longer means a boon for American workers, as the foreign countries now have our manufacturing too, and companies seldom make major re=location moves based on the dollar exchange rate, at least until they see it is a long term trend.America will not export their way out of this one, bush has changed the game.Only upside is that while the dollar becomes worthless bush staggering national debt will be paid back with worthless dollars.
Yep, and I trusted Teddy all the way up to the dike bridge at Chappaquiddick.
Pat Herron,
“Many, many Americans are doing better financially than in 2000 on just income alone.”
Indeed. Some are. But the vast majority aren’t. The gap between upper and lower incomes is increasing measurably. And there are lots of other trends squeezing the lower and middle income folks that don’t necessarily translate into obvious metrics. To wit:
**********************************
“That incomes have grown overall may seem like an unqualified good. But there can be social and political consequences when the income gap widens, some economists say.
Robert Frank, an economist at Cornell University, for instance, found that in counties with the widest income gaps, rates of personal bankruptcy and divorce rates were higher than average.
He also notes that when wealthier families see their incomes rise at a faster pace than everyone else, their spending can create what he calls an “expenditure cascade.” That is, the demand for bigger and better homes or safer cars can create new standards for those lower down on the economic scale.
But since their incomes aren’t growing as fast, they have a hard time keeping up, leading to what Frank calls “welfare loss.” For example, as home prices rise, it becomes harder to afford a home in a neighborhood with good public schools.
And when the majority of households come under financial stress to provide a solid life for their families, voters will be less inclined to pay for public services such as bridge and highway maintenance, port security and food inspection.
And that can adversely affect everyone.”
http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/25/news/economy/income_gap/index.htm
*********************************
A healthy middle class makes for a healthy America. A burgeoning upper class, and downward pressures on the middle class, makes for an unstable and dysfunctional America. These processes have been on the move for some time, but they’ve been taken to a whole new level with Bush.
America will not export their way out of this one, dollar becomes worthless staggering national debt will be paid back with worthless dollars.Posted by: The Phantom
It is nice to hate Bush. But please do not let that cloud your vision of the truth.
America has been a debtor nation from the 1970’s when the arab oil embargo drove oil prices up and we also began importing more of it.
Almost all our past presidents and congress, added to our accumulated national debt. When they took the SS Trust Fund, and co-mingled it with the general fund, we killed that golden goose too.
We will not improve as a nation – if we have two ball teams blaming the other for all our problems.
Only when we all band together on common matters will we force the two party system to make positive change/improvements.
An example would be the outcry on the illegal immigration matter and proposals. Even on this blog, dem/rep sounded off together.
And stopped it cold.
These processes have been on the move for some time, but they’ve been taken to a whole new level with Bush.
Posted by: CF2K
So what are you proposing CF2K, class warfare? Or excuse me, a peaceful redistribution of wealth.Take money from the rich to make the poor equal to our middle class.
Some solution. As you noted, it is like the weather, it has been happening forever, and no one person is going to change it.
Some will always work hard and advance. Some will always be lazy and stay behind.
No matter what you do.
It has been my fortune to have been parts of many different organizations. It is a truism that 20% of the people will do all the work, the rest want a free ride. Except now, it’s more like 10% that will do the majority of the work. So it goes in organizations, so it goes in the fortunes of life.SOme will excel, the majority will not. Simple human nature
Hey Osama,Don’t you mean praise Allah? You have to do better than that, you big fake.
This particular bunch of Republicans make comparisons easy. Compared to them and their PNAC goals anything and anyone is more trusted. They’ve displayed no part of traditional strengths and have shown new depths in the negatives.
It will be difficult for whoever (no matter the person or party!) has to begin mopping up in January 2009. And it will take many years.
In fact it will be like deep cleaning a house. The mess often looks worse in the process of making it better.
Since the public is watching more closely and 24 hour news stations make it more difficult to ignore I suspect whoever is president will be under a magnifying glass.
I hope someday our country can heal and come together for our own good.
Here is a bit of Kerry’s testimony before the U.S. Senate in 1971, where he makes numerous false allegations about his country and the conduct of our soldiers in Vietnam. He also acts as an agent for the enemy, recommending immediate, unconditional surrender. As a Vietnam Veteran, I consider John F. Kerry’s testimony to be unforgivable. one of the most damaging actions of any American from that period, and a look at the true nature of this treacherous man.
Is someone drinking this early in the morning or is it still going on from last night?
Hey Osama,Posted by: Ben Dover
Here’s a real mental giant. Liberals don’t want him on their side, and republicans are afraid he will take over.
The majority of hard workers are the ones that get left behind, the 10% ass kissers that never do a days work are the ones that advance. That has always been the reality. Saw a special, believe it was the person that started the Vanguard financial group. He was saying much the same thing. Corporate America works to serve the top echelon on the corporation first and foremost. The mid and lower level workers that made the organization successful, will always get the shaft. They’re the first in any downsizing (right sizing) to lose their job, often to the benefit of those at the top rungs in the form of bonuses.
the 10% ass kissers that never do a days work are the ones that advance. Posted by: The Phantom
You have got be kidding me Phantom. You believe the wealthy are ass kissers? Unbelievable. What flavor koolaid are they passing out these days.
Like the union and “management” sort of thing.
Maybe it is laced with something from Mary C’s 1960’s.
You lost me as a reader.
Good Lord, this is the attack of the Graffiti trolls.
Pat writes, “Many, many Americans, are doing better financially than in 2000 on just income alone.”
Posted by: Pat Herron
Statistically, you’re wrong, Pat.
Here’s the article I posted yesterday.
When one accounts for inflation and health care costs, the average wage continues to go DOWN.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/LearnToBudget/WhyJoeSixPackCantGetAhead.aspx
Well,
Not all wealthy people are bad. There are lots of good progressive thinking wealthy people just as there are many misled or mixed up poor conservatives.
The greed heads? Mostly they get theirs by using others or marrying well.
“When one accounts for inflation and health care costs, the average wage continues to go DOWN.”
And when in time has that ever been different?
Income has still gone,……..
up.
Graffiti Troll so loathes himself that he believes the CEO of his company really deserves to make in one year what the Troll would make in a thousand years.
Pat Herron,
Well, the class warfare has been underway for, oh, about the last thirty-five years. “No new taxes,” anyone?
The biggest thieves, Pat Herron, are the ones who transform public goods into “private property.” Income redistribution, indeed.
So, our appeal to vote for democrats would be more appealing on American blogs, if we used the word, “Allah” instead of “God”?
Hmmmmmmm. Had not considered that. But then, we Americanized the rest of the message. Would this not sound disjointed if we used “Allah” with American prose?
Please help us, we do want to be most effective.
here’s another article from MSN moneycentral. Actually, it;s a plan.
There is a plan, and it’s deceptively simple
As complicated as the world has become, the middle class awaits anyone with an income and the strength to observe five vital steps:
Spend less than you make. The key to making any financial progress is to live within your means. Think it’s impossible on your income? You’re almost certainly wrong. And in the end, you really don’t have a choice.
Limit your debt. It’s costing you unnecessary interest and leaves you vulnerable to the slightest economic setback. The more you owe, the fewer choices you have.
Save for a rainy day. Even $500 in the bank could allow you to weather day-to-day crises like a car repair that could otherwise push you over the edge.
Plan for retirement. Start early, keep your mitts off the money and don’t stop for any reason. Even a small amount, scraped together and invested over a lifetime, offers a much more comfortable retirement, if only psychologically, than Social Security alone.
Get the latest from Liz Pulliam Weston. Sign up to receive her free weekly newsletter.Preferred format:HTMLPlain TextLearn more about newslettersStay sharp. You are the captain of your financial ship. You have to look for new opportunities and spot potential dangers. No one else will watch out for you and you alone, though, of course, MSN Money is here to help”
“Income has still gone up.”
See, that’s our main problem in trying to attract new voters.
Stupidity.Hopeless, rank, utter stupidity.
If you get a ten dollar a week raise, but all your expenses (inelastic expenses like food and gas and health care) go up 12 dollars, you are poorer than you were before your income went “up.”
Sheesh. Sometimes I feel like I’m living in that movie “Idiocracy.”
The greed heads? Mostly they get theirs by using others or marrying well.
Posted by: J R
“Mostly?”
But I’m sure you have a source for this profound statement. Certainly, the sources are “mostly” in your head.
Save the world.
I thought you were leaving the country Pat. Don’t let waiting breathlessly for my next post hold you up!
If you get a ten dollar a week raise, but all your expenses go up 12 dollars, you are poorer than you were before your income went “up.”
You exagerate. Income has increased and the application of expenses is based upon the individual circumstances. Medical costs went up (like that is a new Bush phenomenon – not), but if I don’t have medical problems, I don’t pay. My healtcare plan costs went up, but my company absorbs most of it. Oil went up? Yep. But I don’t drive much, and I have a Civic Hybrid.
I work at a large corporation and am active in my community. Big circle (but little fish). Most everyone is enjoying a better standard of living than in 2000.
Yes, we still have our ghetto. But it hasn’t grown. Same people living there too. I wonder why? Probably waiting for that check from the gubermint in the mail.
That is an asinine sterotype Pat.
Get those bags packed and get heading up to Canuckistan!
That is an asinine sterotype Pat.
Get those bags packed and get heading up to Canuckistan!
Posted by: Blaidd_Drwg
Too cold and the Walleye are getting thin. Acid rain I think.
Mexico looks good. But only six months and one day of the year. Don’t know yet. Depends on who taxes the most. I’ll come back here to vote, just to keep the red states alive. Not much different than today’s snowbirds.Only I’ll have more time to blog.
Pat writes, “Many, many Americans, are doing better financially than in 2000 on just income alone.”
Posted by: Pat Herron
Statistically, you’re wrong, Pat.
Throw in the per capita share of the ballooned National Debt and I doubt any mid class person has made gains since 2000.But we all know “Deficits don’t matter”, unless they are the result of aiding the poor or children, then a line in the sand must be drawn!
Hey! I thought this thread was about TRUST and DEMOCRATS?
Where the heck is my free MONEY?
I’m still waiting.
I TRUSTED the dems to produce, (oxymoron?) I mean STEAL some of that rich bit-h money for me. Get that money from that worthless CEO you libs are talking about. Hell, why not take the SOB out and just shoot him! What right does the head of a multi-billion dollar corporation think he should make? The federal government needs to CONTROL this too. Whatever, getting off track,
I WANT MY FREE MONEY NOW!!!!!!!!!!
Well, gee, Pat. I’m glad things have worked out so well for you and the folks at the Junior Chamber of Commerce.
But that doesn’t refute the article which is based on statistics from the entire nation.
Whoever said, “you can’t fix stupid” got it right.
Pat writes, “Many, many Americans, are doing better financially than in 2000 on just income alone.”
Posted by: Pat Herron
Statistically, you’re wrong, Pat.
Throw in the per capita share of the ballooned National Debt and I doubt any mid class person has made gains since 2000.But we all know “Deficits don’t matter”, unless they are the result of aiding the poor or children, then a line in the sand must be drawn!
Just wait a little while Pat, your corporation will send your jobs outside of the country, then you can just follow the job.
I’ll come back here to vote, just to keep the red states alive.
You are assuming you will be allowed back. This may not be the case.
Graffiti trolls keep spamming us with “I want my FREE MONEY.”
I guess that’s really funny to mouth-breathing Rush listeners.
The only time I ever got free money from the gov’t was when George W. Bush sent me a 600 dollar check drawn on the US Treasury as a “refund” for the budget surplus.
How’d that work out, given that the debt ceiling was just raised AGAIN to TEN TRILLION DOLLARS?
Worst.President.Ever.
Throw in the per capita share of the ballooned National Debt and I doubt any mid class person has made gains since 2000.Posted by: The Phantom
My investments have done very, very well since then. I built upon what I invested in the 1990’s, and am excelerating rapidly now. Funny thing was – I had to control my spending in order to have money to INVEST. Every penny counts and that’s what we did.
Now you poor bast-ards think you have a right to it?
Regardless, I am much better off than I was in 2000. (Ching! Ching!Ching-Ching!) That’s money in the bank (CU actually, better returns).
“Throw in the per capita share of the ballooned National Debt…”
That doesn’t count.
What amazes me is the head of any major corporation will in a very short time own more shares of the public corporation than a vast majority of its investors. If the working stiff is real fortunate he may end up with a few hundred shares over his lifetime.
How’d that work out, given that the debt ceiling was just raised AGAIN to TEN TRILLION DOLLARS?Posted by: CapnAmerica
I dunno, how’d it work out until Clinton? Did he get rid of that trillion dollar debt? And what’s a few trillion amongst friends? Didn’t seem to bother democrats when LBJ started spending more than he had. Had to finance that democrat war in Vietnam ya know.
I know, let’s just have some wage and price freezes like Mr. Carter did in the white house. That sure as heck helped poor people and the middle class get ahead.
If the working stiff is real fortunate he may end up with a few hundred shares over his lifetime.
Posted by: The Phantom
Now there is the root of your problem Phantom. You are jealous.
I’m very happy working hard and getting a piece of the pie. My few hundred shares in MSFT has grown and doubled. I’m very content with what I have. Very blessed and excited to invest (as opposed to saving)even more.
I don’t have to look over the fence and see someone has MORE than me.
I certainly would not progress from that thought to “How can I take some of it from them?”
Again, don’t let your abject ignorance stop you from taking a cheap shot, Pat.
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
In fact, as a percentage of GDP (which is the best way to look at the national debt), national debt went DOWN under Johnson, down to a post-war low under Carter, more than DOUBLED under Reagan, continued to go up under H.W. Bush and dropped by some one-third under Clinton-Gore.
Of course, now it’s back up to historical highs thanks to
Worst.President.Ever.
Bush could pull another Reagan, freeze wages, then eventually get around to freezing prices. Works out much better for the CEO’s that way.
“No thanks. I don’t need your government free cheese“.
Shoot warhawk you ever tasted it, better then some I have bought at the store!If you don’t want it I will take it! I have not had any since I took a minim wage job while I was between jobs and the state said I was making too much. Yeah I was bring home a whole 400 hundred dollars a month and it only was costing me 300 hundred a month in child care to take that job!
The rest of the free stuff other then the butter tasted pretty crappy. It was real butter and went great with the popcorn I could buy for 50 cents a bag. Yes it was not long after my 400 dollars a month job and three hundred a month child care then losing the food stamps kicked in I quit that job and find a job paying a dollar more. Finished going to computer programming school and got a job as a pressman’s helper. By that time BCS and Pepsico was not even hiring anyone from the local area even with a B.S. in computer science.
But back to the cheese, got any?
“Bill Clinton is a democrat, and you can trust him.
Just look at my blue dress and you will know that is true.
He pulled out!”
Posted by: MonicaOK that one is just too damn funny!Thanks for the laugh….
Pat–
Don’t worry about “looking over the fence.”
The people that are profiting mightily from your labor don’t get anywhere near little people like you.
You don’t even see them.
I’m talking about Dick Cheney and Jack Welch, not the Izod wearing wanna-bes in your local JayCees . . .
Well… I really don’t know what to think about this. O wait… can you people ever get along?
writerdog–
Dude, you are way too easily amused.
Kinda scary, in fact.
I know who you are talking about Capn. You are always focused on the extremely rich.
You don’t know where my fence is, but it’s the same jealousy.
It’s like boys with their toys.Only you want theirs.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.”—John F. Kennedy.
That’s what I’m talking about:
WHERE IS MY HELP???
I WANT MY FREE MONEY. I’m agonna knock up my wife in just a few minutes here, and I EXPECT democrats to give me $5,000 for the kid.
I WANT MY CHEESE! I am not worried about who moved it. Doesn’t matter in a socialist society where it was moved to.
All that matters is I get MINE!!
Give it to me. Free MONEY.
If you have to stop the war on terrorism to attack the rich, well giterdone!
Pat shows the power of the free-marketeerian mythos.
I don’t what “theirs.” I want MINE.
When I produce value for the company, I want to be able to keep more of it, not stupidly hand it over for somebody else to spend just because “that’s the way the free-market works.”
In Germany for instance, the gov’t won’t let Wal-Mart in without unionized workers. The workers get a much better salary and a month of paid vacation.
Does Wal-Mart still make a profit on its German stores?
Of course, otherwise, they wouldn’t be there.
If they can do it in Germany, they can do it here.
That’s what I’m talking about.
Wait just a cotton pickin minute thar Cap-ee-tan. Ziss is not dematter of de fueher to regulate ze privit companies.
I gotta run. Wifey is waiting fer me. Do you suppose I could TRUST the democrats to not only give me 5,000 for the kid, but also pay my wifes medical bill too?
Come on, get movin’ I want that FREE MONEYYYYYYY!
And the German unemployment rate is?And the overall employment situation is?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3685483.stm
Pat Herron and I are sharing our PC. We cain’t afferd two of em.
We be waiting fer de gubermint to issue us FREE PC’s.
Now that’s what we are talking about!
Pat will be tied up for the next few minutes. And if all is well, for the next nine months!!!!!!!!!!
CapnAmerica’s Take”"When I produce value for the company, I want to be able to keep more of it, not stupidly hand it over for somebody else to spend just because “that’s the way the free-market works.”
My take:When I produce value for the company, I want to be able to keep more of it, not stupidly hand it over for somebody else to spend just because they don;t want to work, or get an education, or take care of themselves
Hmmm . . . “free money” must be the Rush O’Hannity rant word of the day.
Well done, Herr Herron, I don’t know what it means but you’ve done a fine job mindlessly staying “on message.”
not stupidly hand it over for somebody else to spend just because they don;t want to work, or get an education, or take care of themselves
Good point, LJ.
But the amount of money going from you to rich fat-cats is far higher than the amount going to “welfare cheats.”
That’s what the article was showing–production goes up, but the wealth created flows to top management and share-holders (often the same thing). Not to the workers who produced the wealth.
Welfare was reformed under Clinton, remember? It’s not the real problem anymore, if it ever was.
The people that are creaming off the wealth are not the poor and the lazy.
The people that are creaming off the wealth are not the poor and the lazy. It’s the wealthy.
That’s why they’re wealthy.
Duh.
The people that are creaming off the wealth are not the poor and the lazy.
Posted by: CapnAmerica
Exactly as it should be. There is nothing broken here.
Maybe a few jealous people, but there is nothing that needs “fixing” by the government.
Maybe a cry of unfair, by a few grumbling middle class people, but nothing illegal for the government to pass laws on.
Because the alternative, is pure socialism or communism. That is what the good Capn ultimately wants. Everyone should be equal, share equally, and be equally miserable.
His cry is the same one used nearly one hundred years ago by the socialist in Germany and communist in Russia.
Big bad evil corporations.
So CapnAmerica-
A persons reward for his labor should be based on?
Reality says two things1) the value produced by the worker2) the supply and demand of workers of that particular type.
You would base it how?
“….promote the general welfare…”
“…of the people, by the people, and for the people….”
We were meant to be a social democracy. The recipe has got all bunged up. It’s supposed to be heavy on the democracy and a dash of capitalism. What we have is a vat of capitalism with a promise of democracy.
It’s nearly 11 AM and I don’t see any posts by liberals dicussing the thread lead of TRUST and DEMOCRATS.
Lot’s of other bashing, but nothing concrete about trusting democrats.
Maybe its not true?
I’ll check back at 1500 for updates.
We were meant to be a social democracy. The recipe has got all bunged up. It’s supposed to be heavy on the democracy and a dash of capitalism. What we have is a vat of capitalism with a promise of democracy.
Posted by: J R | October 05, 2007 at 10:58 AM
This post explains much about you JR. Very warped you are.
We were meant to be a social democracy. The recipe has got all bunged up. It’s supposed to be heavy on the democracy and a dash of capitalism. What we have is a vat of capitalism with a promise of democracy.
Posted by: J R | October 05, 2007 at 10:58 AM
I disagree. WE have more tovernment programs, serving more people, in more ways, than ever before. Certainly in more ways than when the Constitution was written. By the way, for the uneducated, (not the poster–I am sure he knoows)– what was posted was in the preamble, and was the rationale behind the COnstitution. It does not appear in the body of the Constitution itself. The body of the Constitution enumerates how the government is supposed to work.
“Hillary’s socialized medicine will top 50 billion.”
In other words, we could pay for it by leaving Iraq 3 months early.
Sigh…
The right thinks they so understand liberty. Really they don’t get it at all.
What do we have? Oh a few people can work for themselves. A few others are lucky enough to do something they enjoy for someone they can tolerat. We have a lot of people doing things they don’t enjoy for people they do not like. And finally we have a few people living off the labors of those they exploit,,,er employ.
Think about it. The minute you go to work for someone else, you have lost all of your liberties. You are ordered where to be, when for how long. You’ve little rights to opinion. The pain of disobedience is homelessness and starvation. Is that the free country you keep telling me about?
Think about it. The minute you go to work for someone else, you have lost all of your liberties. You are ordered where to be, when for how long. You’ve little rights to opinion. The pain of disobedience is homelessness and starvation. Is that the free country you keep telling me about?
Posted by: J R | October 05, 2007 at 11:14 AM
Your alternative is? I have no desire to put words in your mouth, or inaccurateely describe what sort of economy or economic freedom you desire. Please describe.
But … but …
Bill Clinton!
Monica!
9/11!
Blue dress!
Mission Accomplished!
Here’s the issue of trust and Democrats:
Republicans painted themselves in a corner. now that it is generally agreed that invading Iraq was a mistake, Americans remember it was liberals who tried to warn us against it, and in particular Al Gore accurately predicted the consequences in his 2002 speech in San Francisco. There’s a San Francisco value: Don’t do anything stupid.
Worse yet, the public remembers the “debate” before the war. Anyone who disagreed with Republicans was unpatriotic, wanted the terrorists to win. Rather than invite debate and acknowledge that opponents had their reasons for opposing invasion, Republicans insisted that anyone who opposed them was a wimp, anti-military, anti-troops, anti-American.
The voting public will remember this on election day. Clinton had his faults, but he didn’t pretend to know everything and he listened to the experts regardless of political party. And when 18 troops died in Somalia he fired his Secretary of Defense immediately.
Yes!!! Good use of the strategy leftcoaster! Compare any spending program we want against the cost of Iraq. Yes, it is irrelevant and would be a ball and chain on the country forever, but that’s the way we do it! HAHAHA
Don’t have to worry about JR working for anybody.
-And Lefty, ask Hillary where she pulled that $50 Billion number from.
47 million uninsured people at $7,000 annual healthcare cost per person = $329 Billion.
Somebody has to pay that amount. Who?
“Hillary’s socialized medicine will top 50 billion.”
In other words, we could pay for it by leaving Iraq 3 months early.
Posted by: leftcoaster | October 05, 2007 at 11:12 AM
By the way. I have not lost my economic freedoms. Should I choose, I could change jobs tomorrow. I could go across town, or across the country. I have done both.
Must say, the “socialism” meme is certainly making the rounds of Right Wing Blogsylvania.
This latest bit of Wingnut name-calling leaves CF2K in, well, an identity crisis. Given that fascism privatizes public goods while socialism does the reverse, is he now an “Islamofascist,” or, now, a “socialist?”
It’s so HARD trying to keep up with the latest pronouncements of “conservative” theology on such matters.
Max, that still costs less than the Iraq war so far.
Who is going to pay that amount, plus interest?
And unlike the Iraq war, there are benefits to industry, just ask the Japanese.
Dummocan, until Republicans tell us how we are going to pay for the Iraq war, I will keep bringing it up.
Personally, I think we should divide the cost among the 60 million who voted for Bush in 2004. So far that comes out to about $20,000 each. I bet you think it’s worth it because otherwise the terrorists would follow us home. Freedom isn’t free, right?
Freedom isn’t Free! Nice bumper sticker, but let someone call for a war tax, and its ‘damn dems. want to take my money’.
Hell, I HATE taxes. ANdI am sick of this Iraqui crap. But if we are going to fund that damned war, then fund it with taxes during the present. An excise tax. Let all of them be put on record.
Another reason why nobody trusts Republicans anymore. They constantly point to Dems and say “How are they going to pay for it?” and yet they rack up another $2 trillion in debt.
Fiscally irresponsible like 5 year olds!
Remember paygo? It’s what we adults call fiscal responsibility. Bush made fun of it. And 60 million voted for him.
We should pay as we go. If the war is necessary, if the stakes are as high as Bush says, then the cost is a bargain and we should pay the full amount now instead of paying more later.
We could put the same amount of money — $150 billion a year and growing — into alterative energy research and get off oil once and for all. But try and push that idea you’ll be branded a tax-and-spend liberal.
leftcoaster,
Indeed. This war has been largely financed through supplemental bills, which aren’t subject to the same sorts of oversight and budget accountability as normal ones. It’s time for the ‘war now, pay later’ approach to end.
If Bush wants to have his war, let him go through proper channels to fund it.
Your alternative is? I have no desire to put words in your mouth, or inaccurateely describe what sort of economy or economic freedom you desire. Please describe.
Posted by: littlejohn |
The alternative is a free-market job, yes, but with gov’t protections in place, particularly on union organizing, which we don’t have now.
Reality says two things1) the value produced by the worker2) the supply and demand of workers of that particular type.
You would base it how?
Posted by: littlejohn |
That’s the free-marketeerian mythos again, LJ.
People don’t earn what they’re worth, they earn what the company can get away paying them.
That’s why we need unions to protect the rapidly shrinking middle class.
The CONs want to go back to life in the 50’s. And what was so great about life in the 50’s? Big, powerful unions bring the fruit of their labor to the people who earned it.
“I tell people, ‘to hell with charity,” Saul Alinsky used to say. “You only get what you’re strong enough to get.”
If Bush wants to have his war, let him go through proper channels to fund it.
Posted by: CF2K | October 05, 2007 at 12:49 PM
He already has, several times. And the Democrats keep approving the funding.
You Dems cannot take the high road on the Iraq war. Most Dems voted for it to begin with. And even if they claim now to have been “lied to” (Bill Clinton told the same lie remember) your Dems in Congress keep writing the checks.
“People don’t earn what they’re worth, they earn what the company can get away paying them.”
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 05, 2007 at 12:58 PM
That is the financial worth of any product, including labor, or televisions or tennis shoes. Nobody pays any more than they have to. proof? Wal-Mart is the world’s largest retailer, no matter their practices.
So you would decide how much someone gets paid how?
If it’s worth the sacrifice America’s young military pay, then its worth some shared sacrifice by American citizens in form of not passing the cost on to the same people now doing the fighting, when they have to turn around and pay for the war in the future.If you support our troops, you should be supporting them literally, enough of this figurative b.s.Demand a war tax!
Max, most Democrats voted against the AUMF used to justify invading Iraq. So you can stop spreading that lie.
And in 2002 Bush said he needed the AUMF to prevent a war, not start one.
Capn is suckling the teat of the free enterprise system as we speak.
Draining the mother’s milk out of society brought forth by entrepreneurship and hard work and Capn condemns the same system that provides him with a paycheck.
Another Blogladyte without a clue of what he writes or speaks.
So speaks Kansas. Who as far as I am aware is the only person on this forum and on the dole.
So speaks Kansas. Who as far as I am aware is the only person on this forum and on the dole.
Posted by: J R | October 05, 2007 at 03:43 PM
But J R, are you and your buddy Blogladytes the one proposing that a nanny government take care of us all?
I mean you want redistributed wealth, free health care.
So, unless you are a hypocrite of your own ideology, you want to be “on the dole” yourself.
At least I worked for mine. You just want the government to give it to you for free without having to get off your wide butt to earn it.
What do you know about my butt? Creeps me out you fantasizing like that.
I’d just say it isn’t very productive hearing opinions on the working conditions and pay of Americans FROM someone who likely hasn’t turned a tap in a very long time. That is unless you are employed being an irritant here.
I’d just say it isn’t very productive hearing opinions on the working conditions and pay of Americans FROM someone who likely hasn’t turned a tap in a very long time. That is unless you are employed being an irritant here.
Posted by: J R | October 05, 2007 at 03:51 PM
Translated meaning you have no answer, just more rhetoric.
You want freebies without having to earn it.
Typical Lib.
I have solutions. Well, more like demands. No use in discussing them with you. You don’t work. You got no stake in the arguement. In matters of work you may as well be a fish discussing the desert.
have solutions. Well, more like demands. No use in discussing them with you. You don’t work. You got no stake in the arguement. In matters of work you may as well be a fish discussing the desert.
Posted by: J R | October 05, 2007 at 03:56 PM
While I am not interested in the back and forth personal attacks, this post got my attention. SO, those who don;t work have no stake in the argument? So, all of those who don;t work, or are on the government dole somehow, don;t have a stake? Are you sure that’s what your position is? There are a hell of a lot of Americans that are not working. They vote. Perhaps we should take their vote away until they are contributors to the tax dole that they are milking?
Personally, except for that inconvenient thing called the Constittuion, it would be alright with me.
And before anybody gets their panties in a knot about the “inconvenenient thing called the Constitution”, Thank God for the inability to do whatever we want by majority rule because of the guarantees of the Constitution. It keeps us from being completely stupid, sometimes.
The statement was to one person in particular.
But yes, I’d say a retired person or someone on disability has very little room to be discussing matters related to workers. It is very easy for someone like Kansas to think the “right to work” laws are a good thing. They have no effect on him.
The statement was to one person in particular.
But yes, I’d say a retired person or someone on disability has very little room to be discussing matters related to workers. It is very easy for someone like Kansas to think the “right to work” laws are a good thing. They have no effect on him.
Posted by: J R | October 05, 2007 at 04:05 PM
I understand about it being to one person. But the principle was there. i would not necessarily take out those who have retired, they have paid their price. I probably wouldn;t take out the disabled, if they cannot do anything about it. But the rest, in my mind, those on the public assistance, shouold be quiet about spending my money. But it’s a free country. Anyway. I’m out.
Peace.
“right to work” laws do nothing for the worker. These laws only allow employeers to treat workers anyway they want. If a majority of the workers at a particular vote to be represented by a union, ALL the workers should pay for the services rendered. All workers benefit from the negotiations process, all should help foot the bill. Anyone who doesn’t, as allowed in this state, are nothing more than scabs.
“Hell, I HATE taxes. ANdI am sick of this Iraqui crap. But if we are going to fund that damned war, then fund it with taxes during the present. An excise tax. Let all of them be put on record.”
Posted by: littlejohn
Absolutely! ^5 LJ, you rock!
“‘right to work’ laws do nothing for the worker. These laws only allow employeers to treat workers anyway they want.”
BD has got this right. Kansas is a right to work state and because of that workers have fewer rights. This term is one of those Rovian/Orwellian misnomers – “clear skies initiative” anybody?
LJ–
Do I have to draw a diagram for you?
Let the workers negotiate collectively without the full power of the gov’t to bust unions like it has since Reagan.
The rest will take care of itself.
Reagan btw was hired by General Electric IIRC to do PR work against unions . . .
“Right to work” laws mean that unions cannot create “closed shops.”
In other words, it busts unions.
CEO’s and their boards have a natural vested interest. Their collusion is perfectly legal.
But collective bargaining has a ball and chain around its leg by gov’t but is told nothing is holding it back.
This more or less supports the claim that the media is picking the candidates THEY want…special interest groups are that way.=============August 22, 2007 2:54Dennis Kucinich vs. ABC News
Should the networks and interest groups that have been sponsoring the seemingly endless series of debates and candidate forums start limiting their invitations to those contenders who seem, by whatever definition, “viable”? Having so many candidates onstage fighting for air time does make it harder to come up with any format that goes beyond gotcha moments and sound bites. With a smaller group, we might actually learn something about the people who have the best chance of becoming the next President of the United States.
But I have generally liked the idea of including candidates from the second tier–and beyond–in these settings. You never know when lightning may strike, and how is an underfinanced long-shot going to get a breakout moment otherwise? Just as importantly, candidates such as Dennis Kucinich often are the only ones giving voice to ideas–like single-payer health care and a quick withdrawal from Iraq–that have not been embraced by the leading candidates, despite having significant support among the party rank and file.
Still, having decided to include them, should they be given the same amount of time and attention as the leaders in the race? At his blog Newpairodimes, frequent Swampland commenter Trifecta argues that Democrat Dennis Kucinich and Republican Ron Paul “are getting hosed” by the networks:
http://time-blog.com/swampland/2007/08/dennis_kucinich_vs_abc.html
I heard natives up there now call those south of the border…ameriCANTS