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Open thread 10/25
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Oct. 25, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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206 Comments
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/24/AR2007102402345.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
A New Front in the Abortion Wars
By Robert D. NovakThursday, October 25, 2007; Page A25
That traitor and compulsive liar Novak just rehashed an Operation Rescue press release. I guess that’s what passes as quality work from the Washington Post these days.
AT least that Op-Ed piece was pretty well buried deep in Section A of the Post. LOL
Iraq and Afghanistan wars may total $2.4 trillionKen Dilanian, USA TODAY – October 24, 2007
WASHINGTON — The cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could total $2.4 trillion through the next decade, or nearly $8,000 per man, woman and child in the country, according to a Congressional Budget Office estimate scheduled for release Wednesday.
A previous CBO estimate put the wars’ costs at more than $1.6 trillion. This one adds $705 billion in interest, taking into account that the conflicts are being funded with borrowed money.
The new estimate also includes President Bush’s request Monday for another $46 billion in war funding, said Rep. John Spratt, D-S.C., budget committee chairman, who provided the CBO’s new numbers to USA TODAY.
Assuming that Iraq accounts for about 80% of that total, the Iraq war would cost $1.9 trillion, including $564 million in interest, said Thomas Kahn, Spratt’s staff director. The committee holds a hearing on war costs this morning.
“The number is so big, it boggles the mind,” said Rep. Rahm Emanuel, D-Ill.
Sean Kevelighan, a spokesman for the White House budget office, said, “Congress should stop playing politics with our troops by trying to artificially inflate war funding levels.” He declined to provide a White House estimate.
The CBO estimates assume that 75,000 troops will remain in both countries through 2017, including roughly 50,000 in Iraq. That is a “very speculative” projection, though it’s not entirely unreasonable, said Loren Thompson, a defense analyst at the non-partisan Lexington Institute.
As of Sept. 30, the two wars have cost $604 billion, the CBO says. Adjusted for inflation, that is higher than the costs of the Korea and Vietnam conflicts, according to the Washington-based Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments.
Defense spending during those two wars accounted for a far larger share of the American economy.
In the months before the March 2003 Iraq invasion, the Bush administration estimated the Iraq war would cost no more than $50 billion.
You can watch the hearing live via webcast: High Bandwidth or Low Bandwidth (Audio Only).
$2.4 trillion is enough to:· Provide every college freshman in the country with a free, four year education at a private college or university· Provide health care coverage to every American for one year· Pay off 26% of our current national debt
Chairman John Spratt gives opening remarks:
Chairman Spratt:
“The cumulative cost by 2017 could be an astounding $1.7 trillion. While these costs are enormous, they omit any calculation of interest on the funding borrowed for war operations. And since the government has run substantial deficits from 2003 through 2007, and since future borrowing to some extent can be expected, interest needs to be imputed to the total cost of the war. This expense, as I said, has previously been omitted, but if included, according to CBO, interest cumulatively could be as much $705 billion by 2017. Added to direct costs… the total cost could reach $2.4 trillion by 2017.”Chairman John Spratt questions CBO Director Dr. Peter Orszag on whether the Department of Defense has challenged the CBO’s calculations previously:
Chairman Spratt:
“Have you, in the past when you’ve done this, received any criticism from the Department of Defense, or have there been specific objections made to specific forecasts that you’ve produced by DOD?”
Orszag:
“To my knowledge, there was one incident in which there was some criticism, but I believe that the facts have proven us to be correct, and that had to do with the size, and therefore the cost of the so-called surge that has occurred this year. We put out an analysis earlier this year trying to delineate the potential size of that given the number of brigades that the Administration had identified as being involved in it, and there was some Administration criticism of those figures. But as the facts have turned out, I believe our analysis has proven to be correct.”Rep. Lloyd Doggett (TX-25) questions the curious absence of Republican Members of Congress at the hearing:
Rep. Doggett:
“I assume, by Mr. Ryan being here, that every member of this panel, including every Republican member on that side of the aisle where all the seats are vacant, received notice about this hearing about the cost of war in Iraq?”Chairman Spratt: “I’m sure they did.”Rep. Doggett: “And when was this notice of the hearing sent out?”Chairman Spratt: “Seven days ago, as required by the rules.”Rep. Lloyd Doggett questions CBO Director Dr. Peter Orszag:
Rep. Doggett:
“I’m sure you recall that when the President’s top economist, Lawrence Lindsey, suggested that perhaps the initial White House figure of $50 billion for the total cost over all time for the war in Iraq might be off a little bit, they found him another job outside the administration. If I understand the burn figures, as they’re referred to, presently, we currently spend in about four months in Iraq what the White House told the American people initially would be the cost of the total war. Is that about right?”Orszag:“We’re spending roughly… $11 billion a month”Rep. Doggett: “We had an estimate of $12 billion from witnesses this summer from the Pentagon, but perhaps five months, or almost five months…”Rep. Dennis Moore (KS-03) questions CBO Director Dr. Peter Orszag on military readiness:
Rep. Moore:
“But there are other costs to the states and the readiness potentially in the future, would that also be a fair statement?”Orszag:“And let me just hone in on readiness. There’s no question, the military has set a sort of norm that there should be two units at home for every unit deployed abroad for regular readiness purposes and training and what have you, and we are nowhere near that. We’re somewhere close to one for one, with ranges between .75 and 1.5 in terms of units at home relative to deployed abraod, and that is an unsustainable situation.”
Are Bush and Cheney seriously mentally ill?
http://www.latimes.com/news/columnists/la-oe-brooks24oct25,1,204896.column?coll=la-news-columns
Much ado about nothing MPS. Unwise words perhaps – but it was nothing approaching mental illness – condescending perhaps and maybe some Texas bravado thrown in.
Waste of an article imo.
The trollboy is at it again early this morning. This is a prime example as to why it is pointless to “discuss” ANYTHING with him/her. Just like he is a GW denier, he is a bush apologist. MPS makes an astute bush/cheney observation and the troll immediately steps in and defends his lord and savior.
ZERO credibility for the WEBlog’s #1 troll and nic-switcher!
Time to head off to my job, something the troll doesn’t have. How’d that “engineering class” go for ya’ last night anyway?
Evidently, Apophis didn’t read the IMO – which for the uniformed stands for (In My Opinion)
Of course, Apophis doesn’t need a reason to attack people, he just does it because he’s the designated “representative anal opening” of Wichita.
Uhhh, poster, we went over the same thing yesterday. Links is all that’s needed.
At least most anyone who reads that piece will know that the Novak is a partisan hack. It’s not like it was written by a legitimate reporter.
That Scholfield ad on the Kansas.com page is even more annoying now.
It pops up in a big square and there is a delay so one does seem it and if you try to scroll down, you end up clicking on the add – then a new web page pops up.
Mass annoying.
Schip reborn. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071025/ap_on_go_co/children_s_health
What makes me so incredibly sad about this, it means my son will likely lose all of his services for autism. It makes me furious. My son gets his services through the waiver programs. This looks like it will remove that option for the states, which Kansas has been a leader in. The new autism waiver that I helped get support for to pass in the REPUBLICAN DOMINATED KANSAS LEGISLATURE, may not happen afterall.
So what am I to do? This year will be my first year that I could afford to get my own health insurance. I need surgery, I need some issues addressed after not having insurance for so long. After all those years of being forced to stay home, it looks as if we were going to start getting somewhere-digging ourselves out of the hole. My husband and I just filed for a tax id number to start our own business on the side. Will I have to quit my job in order to keep insurance for my son? Kill our business before it gets off the ground? We can’t win.
and what about my daughter who will be 18 in less than a few months. What about her mental illness? What’s going to happen to her?
I have harsh words for those who opposed the initial bill. I wish to God this happens to you- that you find yourself in this situation where you barely make enough to live on- and have to decide which of you gets insurance and who doesn’t.
Crowson’s cartoon encapsulates the current issues well – and it’s has a “crack a smile” glimmer about it.
If you are starting your own business, you don’t have to take a full salary you know. Then perhaps you can still qualify.
Talk to some small business people, they’ll tell you how to ride the bull. :)
I’m working two part time jobs to put money into it to get it off the ground in the first place. If I kill my income for that, we won’t have anything to put into the business.
You see, we’re totally screwed. Had this come even a year or two later, we probably would be ok.
Here are some facts. Cheney sustained three heart attacks, due to coronary artery blockage. He eventually received coronary artery bypass surgery.
He has an implanted defibrillator, which is only used for damage to conducting tissues (which regulate heart-muscle contraction and relaxation( in which the heart is at risk for either ventricular tachycardia or ventricular fibrillation. Both are essentially fatal unless emergently treated. So he has had one or the other.
Why are these important? They inform us that Cheney’s heart has been deprived of oxygen repeatedly. But the heart pumps oxygen to the brain. If the heart isn’t receiving enough oxygen, and if it goes into dysrhythmias that drastically diminish its pumping of blood, the brain becomes ischemic and hypoxic, which injures the brain.
I read an article in which a long-time friend of Mr. Cheney, going back to his time in Congress, said, “Dick Cheney isn’t the man I knew. I don’t know Dick Cheney anymore.”
Brain injury can cause significant personality changes. It can certainly affect judgment.
There are widespread rumors, that George Bush was a cocaine user in his young adulthood. What is not a rumor is that he was a chronic alcoholic. Either or both of these could have caused significant brain damage.
George Bush declined to take a flight physical. One can reschedule a medical appointment for many reasons. But to simply decide to not be examined would indicate the examinee’s recognition that it would be best for him not to be examined. Why?
These two men have gotten us into two wars that aren’t working. One of these wars has created a humanitarian crisis with a million people fleeing their native country, and nobody knows how many deaths and crippling injuries.
Now Cheney is musing, “We can solve things in the Middle East by nuking Iran. We have to prevent Iran from initiating WWIII in ten years, and if our preemptive action starts WWIII, well that’s a risk Americans must accept.”
He has said that a nuclear strike may be necessary to protect Europe. But he hasn’t sought Europe’s opinion, and Europe’s opinion is strongly opposed. What does he then mean? He knows more about what is in Europeans’ interests than Europeans do? That’s beyond patronistic; it may be a sign of psychosis.
Dunno PMom, your situation sounds rough. You may need to seek help from a financial adviser that specializes in family plans and businesses. Some banks have them and insurance companies do. The higher cost ones are with law firms or with accounting firms.
Is your daughter functional in most ways? She should qualify for state assistance without too much of a problem I would think. My relative which has Down’s syndrome gets mass help from the state and has held a job for nearly 25 years.
For your surgery I would shop around at the outpatient surgery clinics to see what can be done. It’s amazing what is considered outpatient these days.
For the Autism bill, I would make an editorial for the Eagle on what you did and what has happened. I bet you get some attention that way – hopefully it will get the dead heads off their butts to do something.
As always PMom, keep on trucking, your a good mom, doing all that you do. You can do it. I know you don’t want to hear it, but I’ll pray for you in your time of struggle and need. :)
Pmom – the changes to schip are not going to affect the autism waivers at all. Those are two separate programs. Kansas is not making any changes at this time to their program. Therefore, you will not be losing anything. I was involved with some of the changes last year so I called the state to see what impact any of the DC action would have on the programs. They assured me there are negative affects to last year’s changes.
“Now Cheney is musing, “We can solve things in the Middle East by nuking Iran. We have to prevent Iran from initiating WWIII in ten years, and if our preemptive action starts WWIII, well that’s a risk Americans must accept.”‘ – MPS
It is improper and deceptive to put words in quotes when you aren’t quoting.
Got this in an email this morning, supposed to be verified on the FBI website:
Jury Duty Scam:
Most of us take those summonses for jury duty seriously, but enough people skip out on their civic duty, that a new and ominous kind of fraud has surfaced.
The caller claims to be a jury coordinator. If you protest that you never received a summons for jury duty, the scammer asks you for your Social Security number and date of birth so he or she can verify the information and cancel the arrest warrant. Give out any of this information and bingo; your identity was just stolen.
The fraud has been reported so far in 11 states, including Oklahoma , Illinois, and Colorado . This (swindle) is particularly insidious because they use intimidation over the phone to try to bully people into giving information by pretending they are with the court system. The FBI and the federal court system have issued nationwide alerts on their web sites, warning consumers about the fraud.
please visitwww.gabrielchristou.blogspot.com
you will see PHOTOS of WHO and WHERE Bin Laden and his NETWORKS ARE….
URGENT…PLEASE HELP…. I CANNOT FROM HERE….. I AM BLOCKED ALL AROUNDFORWARD THIS INFORMATION TO THE FBI.
“Heat deal Walker to T-Wolves for Davis.”
Damn, why wasn’t I told of this.
hey, gabriel christou, you sure you don’t want us to, like, send you some money, after which you’ll send us our lottery winnings?
the scammer asks you for your Social Security number and date of birth so he or she can verify the information and cancel the arrest warrant. Give out any of this information and bingo; your identity was just stolen.
Ken
Say Ken, you need not post this sort of thing on this blog.
Anyone stupid enough in the year 2007 to be giving out their personal information over the telephone or on a BLOG – deserves everything they get.
And no tears from me. No kleenex.
Take your stupidity somewhere else.
The “hook” can and will be anything. Scam #1, Scam #2, Scam #3, etc….
The rules are the same. Give out nothing, and you won’t be hurt.
Give it out, and you deserve what you get.
2 part-time jobs P-mom, and 2 kids with disabilities, and a husband who does what?
Oh, finally starting your own business.
Now you will be rich, that your husband is working too.
Working 2 part-time jobs to feed a needy family of 4 isn’t gonna make it. How did you expect to get out of the hole without both spouses WORKING? (Or at least 1 full-time job in the family)
PMom — I am sure you have checked into Project Access??
pmom – I meant to say there would be no negative impact.
All Americans should have the right to carry a concealed gun, provided they pass whatever state requirements exist. At the same time, any private business has the right to not allow concealed weapons on or in their establishment. Private colleges should have the same right to ban concealed guns. I would argue that to do so, would ensure only criminals have guns (crazy killers).
Public colleges, which receive public funds?
“College students across the country have been strapping empty holsters around their waists this week to protest laws that prohibit concealed weapons on campus, citing concerns over campus shootings.
“People who would otherwise be able to defend themselves are left defenseless when on campus,” said Ethan Bratt, a graduate student wearing an empty holster this week on the campus of Seattle Pacific University.”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304806,00.html
Gosh, water water everywhere in the WE today. I think their nice little editorial promised to talk about statewide water planning, but it was essentially another cheerleading effort for Wichita to get the state to help they pay for things. It’s all about the socialization of the costs, and privatizing the benefits for those rate payers.
Uh, why are the rate payers not paying “the rate”? And how does a handout from the state “secure” the water supply? You mean if the state doesnt pay for it, Wichita wont do it?
heheheheh. SO much for their committment to the “regional water supply”. Like the “regional” benefit of a handout for airfares?
Hmmmm. Wichita cant sustain itself as a “regional” hub of any kind without a state handout?
Geez. Sounds like Hays.
I just love all your low tax free market advocates down there who LOVE the free market and trust IT to develop regional hubs…
…except when the market doesnt.
Oh, and PS. The silting in of reservoirs? Old news. The KWA, KWO, and KWB TALK about things. They dont actually DO things.
Try to keep up will ya? They’ve been “talking about” the silting problems for at least seven years if not longer.
But nice try at pimping old news as an excuse to get “statewide planning” into the editorial and not just “statewide paying”.
There is talk that we can no longer think in a pre-911 mindset, can we really think in a pre-Iraq mindset?Before the invasion, what ever President Bush or any member of his administration said could have been dismissed as rhetoric, bluster and “saber rattling”. BUT Iraq changed all that much like when the terrorists used our practice of do not resist and comply with the hostage-takers commands to flight crew and passengers. If the terrorists try to use the same tactic today, we know to fight back as they are going to kill you anyway. We can not longer assume that what Bush or Cheney said is just “talk”.
…and those of you whining about China and THEIR coal fired plants and our ability to compete with their economy should love this.
They may not have enough WATER to run their coal fired plants or support their population.
Sound familiar?
China Turns to Dry Land Rice as Water Crisis Looms
BEIJING – China, the world’s top consumer and producer of rice, is turning to a new kind of rice that can grow on dry soil like wheat as the country faces a serious water shortage due to industrialisation and the global warming.
Aerobic rice requires 50-70 percent less water, although its yields are about 30 percent less than hybrid rice — a strain that brought about the Green Revolution in the 1960s, Wang told Reuters on the sidelines of a workshop in Beijing.
Comment about the above from another blog. BTW, “green revolution” means big ag and their growth in production, not “green” like environmentally sound.
“Here we have the first sign of the Green Revolution running out of gas. As the world population expands by 40% over the next 40 years, we will need hefty improvements in crop yields. Instead, we are running out of water, soil fertility is dropping, and the fertilizer needed to maintain yields in that situation will continue rising in price as natural gas supplies decline. Global per capita grain production is already dropping. What are the extra 2.5 billion people we’ll be inviting to the party between now an 2050 going to eat? Cake?”
Ya know, I noticed yesterday that governor leadership’s spokesperson, for the first time, mentioned “water” and “economic development” all in the same paragraph.
That is the FIRST time I heard anyone associated with governor leadership talk about the water issues surrounding the coal fired plant. OR about the water issues surrounding economic development out here.
Enlightenment at long last? I doubt it. I wonder if giving Wichita water money handouts will encourage them to support her in giving money handouts to big irrigators out here? That would go a long way to putting a bandaid on the hurt feelings in western kansas.
She’s gonna need the urban support to get that done, and what better way then buying off the Wichita area delegation?
And she needs to fund the fund that the KWO has to compensate irrigators when the tap gets turned off. THAT is what big irrigation wants,and has wanted since the creation of the empty fund. But so far, it’s been put off with the “no money” excuse.
And I say that is an excuse, because the STATE already owns all the water in ks. It can turn off any tap at any time, with no compensation, because… they own the WATER. Rights holders have the right to use. They dont own the water itself.
SO.. (sorry for the ramble) I smell an irrigation payoff in overappropriated areas, which includes the whole freakin’ state, but out here, the taps need to be shut off first.
So.. to make the medicine go down, and to suck up to the pissed off western kansas legislative leaders she NEEDS, AND to compensate them for their poor widdle lost coal plant…
Watch for the KWO to propose payoffs for irrigators in their next budget. That will make melvin and steve happy and a payoff to Wichita will make THEM happy. And money in the KWP budget and the KWO budget for purchasing the Circle K ranch will make HAYS happy after Sunflower, their local business, got its face slapped.
Win-win. Except for the water system itself. Water as political capital. I’ve been saying it since sebelius was elected the FIRST time. Watch the budgets and mark my words.
Dont you just love it when a plan comes together :( ?
We have plenty of water in eastern Kansas. What’s the problem out west? Wasn’t that place originally a dust bowl when nature made it?
Pmom, I am truely sorry for your troubles. My experience, over 22 years, has been that access to affordable healthcare via insurance is the NUMBER ONE road block to creating more entrepreneurs.
Lots of folks have some combination of the talent, time and money to start a business. But not all of them can afford to quit their jobs because they need the benefits.
Capitalists? Do you love entrepreneurship? Then tackle the health care and health insurance cost problems. That would do more to create more and new small businesses than ANY low interest loan or micro loan program ever devised.
I wish you and yours well Pmom.
“Capitalists? Do you love entrepreneurship?”
Amazing the number of small business starts in the good ole USA. Guess they didn’t see healthcare as a road block:
According to the U.S. Small Business Administration, more than one-half million businesses started (employer births) each year between 1990 and 2003. In the years between 1990 and 2003, the highest number of business starts in one year occurred in 1996, with 597,792; the lowest number for one year occurred in 1991 (541,141). The estimated number of employer births during 2003 was 572,900. The total number of employer firms has been increasing each year since 1992. In 2003 there were an estimated 5.7 million employer firms.
JTF, do you have any experience in small business development?
How high would that figure be if health care was NOT an issue?
What about the ones who DID see it as a roadblock?
So.. because some small biz were created, we should be satisfied? Heheheheh.
There couldnt have been more created?
You even have ONE EXAMPLE right here. Just want to argue with me? Or with Pmom?
Typical.
No arguing. Just the facts mame.
The total number of employer firms has been increasing each year since 1992.
“Posted by: Just the facts | October 25, 2007 at 10:47 AM”
JTF:Your statistics do not indicate the number of those businesses started by people who were not relying on income from that business to pay their healthcare. Many spouses who are on their significant other’s insurance plan start their own businesses because of the lower risk.
Thank you brian. You just cant convince some people that correlation does not equal causation.
So what if they’ve been increasing? I never said they werent! What does THAT increase have to do with my comment that MORE could have been created without health insurance as a road block?
Oh, and BTW Randy, I agree that we need statewide planning for our water future. But good luck with that as long as governor leadership regards water only as political capital. And she has the entire KWO to carry out her political missions.
Just please, dont conflate planning with payouts. They really are two separate things.
Lott Waits for Clinton’s Apology and Gets OneIt’s a good thing she apologized, because Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) was fixin’ to give Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) a piece of his mind.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/24/AR2007102402425.html?hpid=sec-politics
One of the really sickening things about Democrat politicians is, they’re such a bunch of pansies.
Your statistics do not indicate the number of those businesses…. brian
Just the facts. It appears small business growth is not hindered by healthcare costs. Could you argue that it could be MORE? Probably. I could agrue that if fuel costs were lower, taxes were lower, and if the government gave me money for these things – I’d be a success! But it is not stopping the capitalist who are smart business people – from succeeding.
“It appears small business growth is not hindered by healthcare costs.
Posted by: Just the facts | October 25, 2007 at 11:24 AM”
Well, this sentence is where the disagreements on this issue lie.
The facts you posted (and any others that I am aware of) do not allow one to draw an accurate causal relationship between healthcare costs and the growth of small business.
You correctly point out that you could list numerous things that occured during the time period in the studies you posted and point to those things as reasons why growth was not more.
Indeed, your assertation goes to the message that causality (either of why the number was so high, or why there were not more) cannot be determined from those type of stats.
They only tell how many, not why.
Agree in part Brian. But had the trend been downward, we could have looked to find a reason for declining small business growth.I am suggesting there is no problem nationwide and that to provide “price supports” or breaks for small business would not effectively improve society for all Americans.
Kansas also rates 4th nationally as far as Business bankruptcies percentages in the 1990-2003 time frame.
brian, just as the stats that exist concerning small business failure rates do not allow one to examine why 44% fail within two years of startup, and 66 % fail within four years, according to the SBA. I’d venture that most failures result from initial undercapitalization, based upon my practice; but in at least three cases within my experience, the failures resulted directly from the spouse/significant other of the founder of the business losing her/his insurance coverage at the spouse’s place of employment, and the inability to procure a satisfactory (read affordable) replacement through the new entity.
By the above, I’m not asserting that the inability to procure affordable medical insurance coverage was the sole reason most of my new entity clients failed; just pointing out that in three cases, it was related.
The ability of the other spouse to continue her/his insurance through employment outside the new venture is, however, a major factor for many in deciding to form a new business. Many married folks, especially those with dependent children, who decide to start their own business freely state that if the spouse’s coverage wasn’t available, they would not be starting such enterprise.
Many of the nation’s biggest companies have cut back their sales expectations in recent days and the financial system is showing signs of new stress, evidence that the U.S. economy is more threatened by the sharp downturn in housing than it appeared to be only a few weeks ago.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/24/AR2007102402570.html?hpid=moreheadlines
Will Republicans be able to hold off the looming recession long enough for Bush to finish his term? Will Republicans be able to blame the recession on the next administration, probably Democratic?
Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of “As the Economy Burns”.
“Many married folks, especially those with dependent children, who decide to start their own business freely state that if the spouse’s coverage wasn’t available, they would not be starting such enterprise.
Posted by: Vaughn Tolle | October 25, 2007 at 11:39 AM
EXACTLY, VT!!!!!
And that is why gay people need the benefits and protections of marriage. My “spouse” could have started her own business too if she had the support of “my” health insurance.
There are a million reasons why NOT to start a small business. There are a million headaches if you do. Obstacles and opportunities.
If you have problems with just one of them, such as healthcare, you probably made the correct decision to NOT start a small business. You would fail. It makes a good excuse or reason for not trying though.
Over half a million do start each year, and many, many are successful – despite the odds and all the obstacles.
I personally do not think healthcare is the factor that prevents the creation of or leads to the fast failure of the majority of small businesses.
Obviously, in some, perhaps several, maybe even many cases, it is a large factor.
Is it the ultimate causal factor? I really doubt it. It is really hard to take an idea from concept to successful business, with many potential pitfalls.
I don’t think there’s any doubt at all that if the US were able to provide complete and affordable potability of any given citizen’s protection from the risk of bankruptcy due to health care costs (ie, a national or federal health care plan) then the US economy as a whole would zoom higher (grow) and wider (grow for more Americans).
The GOP runs an enormous risk of being perceived ACCURATELY as hobbling economic growth due to its ideological, and illogical, opposition to national health care.
The GOP is going to bite it hard on this one, or (more likely) scramble like hell to appear otherwise.
National health care is an idea whose time has come, and it’s all thanks to our idea that health care is:1) a for-profit venture,–simulaneous to–2) something that cannot be denied to Americans who cannot pay (this includes emergency care, which is available to those who later cannot pay for it).
When health care providers demand profit as a necessary condition to providing health care, then when some consumers don’t pay other consumers do. And through the nose…and they are not able to start or continue small biz ventures that might otherwise succeed.
National health care is an idea whose time has come, Pedant.
Only in your parties mind. 253 million Americans have healthcare. 47 million do not. A careful examination of those 47 million will reveal many reasons they sometimes decide NOT to be covered.
Does it cost those of us with insurance a lot? Yes! Would I rather have that cash in my pocket? Of course!
But you don’t throw out a healthcare system that works for the vast majority – because of a few.
That’s not democracy. That’s socialism.
“253 million Americans have healthcare. 47 million do not.
Posted by: American Way | October 25, 2007 at 12:14 PM”
I find this statement quite suspicious. Is there any valid support for it?
I find this statement quite suspicious. Is there any valid support for it?
Posted by: brian | October 25, 2007 at 12:17 PM
Census records? :)
It’s math.
Population of USA, is approximately 300 million.
The democrats figure is the 47 million. (I disagree with that number, because it includes illegal aliens, and those who simply by choice do not have healthcare. But I’ll accept it.)
Your argument might be valid, AW, if healthcare costs were flat or at least not growing any faster than the overall rate of inflation.
But they in fact are growing far, far faster than that.
It’s only a matter of time, and I believe that time is brief (next decade at the latest).
The GOP will see GDP zoom like kudzu on fertilizer then, and we’ll all be reading those scratch-their-heads ruminations in the National Review with titles like “How Did the GOP Manage to Hand the Dems the Hero Mantle?”
I guess my definition of healthcare is different from that of the Dems.
any faster than the overall rate of inflation.” Pedant
You see the cost of tuition at a public college? Amazing! I don’t know how parents can pay it. It went up 125% while my kids were in school!
But I didn’t dail 911 and ask the government to bail me out.
I grumbled a lot. Wrote some letters. But I paid it.
Democrats ALMOST had me interested in what they were doing to help. (maybe curious would be a better word.)
Here they took one problem that needs solving (Alternate Min Tax (AMT)), and complicated it by having to force tax breaks into it. Darn it! Repeal or index the AMT if that is the right thing to do (which I agree with). But don’t increase taxes BEYOND the need/purpose stated – in order to provide tax breaks for others.
“The Rangel proposal would extend for one year the current-law AMT relief for nonrefundable personal credits, at an estimated cost of $47 billion over 10 years.
The permanent repeal of the tax would cost nearly $800 billion over 10 years. That would be offset by applying a replacement tax of 4 percent of married couple income above a certain level, not to be less than $200,000. The tax would be 4.6 percent on income in excess of $500,000, or $250,000 in the case of a single taxpayer. High-income individuals would see a limitation on itemized deductions and a phase-out of deductions for personal exemptions, raising $29 billion over 10 years.
In anticipation of Rangel’s plan, Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas, and other GOP conservatives wrote their colleagues Wednesday urging them to oppose any proposal to raise taxes to pay for the elimination of the AMT. “The correction of tax mistakes should never be offset with tax increases,” they wrote.
Democrats are committed to pay-as-you-go rules requiring that ways be found to pay for any spending increases or tax cuts so as not to add to the federal deficit.
The bill also reduces the top corporate marginal tax rate from 35 percent to 30.5 percent, at a cost of $364 billion over 10 years. This would be paid for in part through such measures as repealing the domestic production activities deduction and requiring that U.S. corporations that defer income through controlled foreign corporations also defer the deductions that are associated with this income. The last-in-first-out accounting method would also be eliminated, saving $106 billion over 10 years.
Under the Rangel plan (with costs and new revenues over a 10-year period):
— Married couples filing jointly would be entitled to take an additional $850 as a standard deduction, at a cost of $48 billion.
— The number of lower-income taxpayers qualifying for earned income credit would grow, at a cost of $29 billion.
— The refundable child credit would be increased, at a cost of $9 billion.
— Investment fund managers would be prevented from paying taxes at capital gains rates, raising $26 billion.
— Hedge fund managers would be prevented from using offshore tax haven corporations to defer taxes on compensation received for providing investment services, raising $23 billion.
— There would be mandatory cost basis reporting by brokers for transactions involving publicly traded securities, raising $4 billion.
(sorry for long post, I lost the source. One of the major news networks.)
Brian, part of the decision about starting a business is “can I afford it?” Can I quit my job? My other business? Do I have income outside the biz for the first year or more? How can I cut my personal expenses? Do I have enough saved for personal as well as biz emergencies? The list could go on. You know what I mean.
Health insurance is often the determining factor in the “can I quit my current job” question. Some folks choose to work part time at a job and part time at their biz. They usually lose health insurance.
And I sure hope no one is relying on that sentimental “I believe in my biz so much I can over come anything” line of It’s a Wonderful Life thinking.
Yes, successful entrepreneures need a can do attitude and a belief that they can overcome all problems, and leap buildings in a single bound.
But then, some of us have responsibilities and put off starting our dream biz to take care of those “personal responsibility” issues, like health care.
I guess an entrepreneur can toss caution to the wind, put their family health at risk, and get their healthcare in the emergency room where we ALL pay for it. They can do that to listen to Sinatra in their head.
But if they are that far in dream land, you do indeed have to wonder how successful they will be.
But hey dont believe me. Talk to my clients over 22 years. Listen to Pmom. Listen to Vaughn.
Or just continue to be in denial. Whatever.
Heheheheheh. I didnt even have to come up with a reply to values boy and his tortured swipe at Ellen. He sure showed his dominionist colors today.
Anyhow, I found this over at DU. Answered him pretty well, and even the comments used some of his same words.
Say…. you dont think values boy reads at DU? Or maybe even POSTS over there?
hehehehehheehehehehehehehhehheh!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×2133420
Brian, even though I addressed you in the beginning about the affordability issue, the rest of that post was not directed at you.
guess an entrepreneur can toss caution to the wind, put their family health at risk, and get their healthcare in the emergency room where we ALL pay for it. They can do that to listen to Sinatra in their head.Farmgirl.
According to the U.S. Small Business Administration, more than one-half million businesses started (employer births) each year between 1990 and 2003. In the years between 1990 and 2003, the highest number of business starts in one year occurred in 1996, with 597,792; the lowest number for one year occurred in 1991 (541,141). The estimated number of employer births during 2003 was 572,900. The total number of employer firms has been increasing each year since 1992. In 2003 there were an estimated 5.7 million employer firms.
You’ve already been told the problems with those numbers, but please, stick to your guns with them. They dont mean any more now than they did the FIRST, and second, and third times.
‘How to Fool Other People’
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/how-to-fool-other-people/
“John Stossel stars in a recent TV report that’s getting a lot of exposure in the denialist blogosphere. It’s basically the same old same old denialist garbage….
The truth is that CO2 and temperature are both cause and both effect.
…… consider this: temperature increase happening before CO2 increase during ice ages was actually PREDICTED 17 years ago by Claude Lorius, Jim Hansen and others, BEFORE the data showed it (Lorius et al. 1990, Nature, 347, 139).”More at link.
Well. This is interesting. Where there is potential punishment, there is a potential buy off.
http://www.saljournal.com/rdnews/story/parkinson_102407
http://concealedcampus.org/index.htm
Am Way, check out this web site.
Kids on college campuses are rendered defenseless by gun bans that do not stop madmen from shooting up the place.
We do need a National Concealed Carry Law, to allow for a state issued concealed carry permit to be valid in all 50 states, and to allow permit holders to carry on College campuses.
I posted that earlier. I understand any private business or property owner disallowing guns on their premises.
Not sure about public schools.
dont mean any more now
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl
The facts dear farm girl, do not reflect a problem with small business starts in the USA. Over half a million every year – and growing strong!
That some of you are weanies and too poor, or not smart enough – is not a reason to say the system is “broken” and needs freebies.
Millions who WANT to start businesses in America – do so every day and every year.
America Could Have Killed Usama bin Laden — But Didn’tBy Col. David Hunt
Because there is no shortage of things to yell about regarding the War on Terror, Iraq, Afghanistan, Homeland Security, and so on, deciding what to write about is always fun.
This week, I was going to yell about how the Bush administration leaked classified information — again — but we’ve been there before. Then, I thought I might write about Blackwater, but compared to so many things, Blackwater looks like back water.
I bet the few of you that read this stuff thought I would write about my short stint in the sights of those who complained or used my column last week for their own purposes. Nah, it ain’t going to happen. Those who were yelling or using me on their TV shows — without bringing me on to comment — are hardly worth the print space. I am not that big a deal. Besides, these things are of little consequence when you realize how we missed, squandered, screwed up, made a mess of and were massively risk adverse — again — when we did not kill Usama bin Laden in Afghanistan just two short months ago.
We know, with a 70 percent level of certainty — which is huge in the world of intelligence — that in August of 2007, bin Laden was in a convoy headed south from Tora Bora. We had his butt, on camera, on satellite. We were listening to his conversations. We had the world’s best hunters/killers — Seal Team 6 — nearby. We had the world class Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) coordinating with the CIA and other agencies. We had unmanned drones overhead with missiles on their wings; we had the best Air Force on the planet, begging to drop one on the terrorist. We had him in our sights; we had done it. Nice job again guys — now, pull the damn trigger.
Unbelievably, and in my opinion, criminally, we did not kill Usama bin Laden.
You cannot make this crap up; truth is always stranger and more telling than fiction. Our government, the current administration and yes, our military leaders included, failed to kill bin Laden for no other reason than incompetence.
The current “boneheads” in charge will tell you all day long that we are fighting and dying in Iraq and Afghanistan to stop terrorists there so they do not come here. Nice talk, how about — just for a moment — acting like you mean what you say? You know walk the walk. These incidents, where we displayed a total lack of guts, like the one in August, are just too prevalent. The United States of America’s political and military leadership has, on at least three separate occasions, chosen not capture or kill bin Laden or Ayman al-Zawahri. We have allowed Pakistan to become a safe haven for Al Qaeda. We have allowed Al Qaeda to reconstitute, partially because of money they (Al Qaeda in Iraq) have been sending to Al Qaeda in Pakistan.
We are in a war with terrorists. We are in a war with countries that support terrorists. We are in a war with people that fly planes into buildings and who never, ever hesitate to pull the trigger when given the chance to kill us. We cannot win and, I will tell you this now, we are losing this war every damn time we fail to take every single opportunity to kill murderers like Usama bin Laden. Less than two months ago, we lost again.
Our men and women are being blown up and killed every day in Iraq and Afghanistan. Every family who is separated from a loved one during this war is being insulted by our government when they fail to kill those who have already killed us and will not hesitate to do so again and again. Damn it guys, PULL THE DAMN TRIGGER.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304306,00.html
You know you are doing something right when a conservative front group Family Security Matters (FSM) releases its list of “The Ten Most Dangerous Organizations in America.”
FSM writes that these 10 “hate” organizations are “growing powerful in the world of politics” and share a common “unwillingness to bend in their strictly biased view of the world.” FSM’s board of advisers includes Frank Gaffney, Barbara Comstock, and Laura Ingraham. Here are 10 most dangerous organizations:
10) ThinkProgress9) Muslim Student Association8) CodePINK7) American Civil Liberties Union, National6) Family Research Council5) Center for American Progress4) League of the South3) MoveOn.org2) Universities and Colleges1) Media Matters for America
My favorite one is “Universities and Colleges.” Are these guys getting paid to do this?
are you telling me you didn’t have a couple professors in your college days, that were so wacked out you didn’t believe a thing he said.. I had some that were very religious and most were atheist.. college professors are a bunch of freaks..
There are wierdos in every profession. My college days were not too long ago, and the majority of my profs were regular joe’s and jane’s.I do not think that the percentage of far-leftists or far-righties is much different than that of the general population in the region near the college.
No BG, by saying “Universities and Colleges” they are generalizing. What about Pat Robert’s University or Liberty university founded by Jerry Falwell. Are they also “hate organizations?”
6) Family Research Council
I thought they were in bed with the conservative base.
Posted by: kscitydude | October 25, 2007 at 03:43 PM
forgot one:
11) Justice League of America
at least they are fair.. and not political in their decisions..
at least they are fair.. and not political in their decisions..
Posted by: BG | October 25, 2007 at 04:10 PM
By “they are fair” are you taking into consideration that they would like to do away with the establishment cause of the First Amendment? They have an agenda, which they have every right to, but it’s not my agenda.
Holidays and cold weather coming, a little overeating, maybe a little less exercise and bingo your down for the count:
Article Submitted by The American Heart Association
THREE QUESTIONS TO ID A STROKE
This might be a lifesaver if we can remember the three questions!
Is It a Stroke?
Sometimes symptoms of a stroke are difficult to identify. Unfortunately, this lack of awareness can spell disaster. The stroke victim may suffer brain damage when people nearby fail to recognize the symptoms of a stroke.
Now, doctors say a bystander can recognize a stroke by asking three simple questions:
Ask the individual to smile.
Ask him or her to raise both arms.
Ask the person to speak a simple sentence.
If he or she has trouble with any of these tasks, call 9-1-1 (no not Guliani) immediately and describe the symptoms to the dispatcher.
Tell your friends tell your neighbors
Hillary Clinton Makes Time to Celebrate 60th Birthday in New York
Bill was heard saying, yeah this is the one other time during the year when she gets me. Have to on Christmas too.
Still make her wear a bag though.
Report: Mob Targeted Rudy Giuliani For Hit
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304982,00.html
If the Mob doesn’t like Rudy, he can’t be all that bad.
It’s time to consider either a FAIR tax or a FLAT tax to replace the current lousy IRS system.
United Socialist States of America
NEW and IMPROVED! Now Even MORE Socialist in 2005 then in 2004!
Of all people who file income tax returns, the top 10% pay 70.30% (that’s more than 2/3!) of ALL income taxes!
I wonder what their fair share of the total income tax is?
The bottom 50% of all income tax filers only pay 3.07% of all taxes.
……………Income …Tax Share
Top 1%___>$364,657___39.38%Top 5%___>$145,283___59.67%Top 10%__>$103,912___70.30%Top 25%__> $62,068___85.99%Top 50%__> $30,881___96.93%Bottom50%______< $30,881____3.07%
And what share of the nations wealth do those few top percenters hold there Max?
“Fair” and “flat” taxes are unfairly weighted against the poor and middle class.
Reinstate the capital gains tax! Enough with people who have money making money ON money.
Reinstate the estate tax! It only affected a few thousand of the WEALTHIEST Americans. And they can’t spend it when they are dead.
Return to income tax rates prior to Kennedy!
“Pmom – the changes to schip are not going to affect the autism waivers at all. Those are two separate programs. Kansas is not making any changes at this time to their program. Therefore, you will not be losing anything. I was involved with some of the changes last year so I called the state to see what impact any of the DC action would have on the programs. They assured me there are negative affects to last year’s changes.
Posted by: time for change ”
Did you ask this year? Because according to Pat Roberts, this is why he was a sponsor of the bill for the initial Schip. The SCHIP wasn’t up for reauthorization last year. It gave states the leeway to offer these services to families like mine.
I don’t have the autism waiver, the autism waiver hasn’t begun yet, and it is starting so small it is ridiculous. My children are on the SED waiver- my son qualifies because of his extreme anxiety- not all kids with autism are eligible for the SED waiver. He could also qualify for the DD waiver, but I prefer my services from a mental health facility. Different waivers, same funding program.
Wahawk, my husband DOES work full time and part time. We barely cleared 32k last year, I started back to work in August of last year.
By the way, you forgot to add in my organizations I’m involved in, taking care of my dad and grandparents, and my volunteer work.
Timeforchange. Healthcare is a major factor – it seems rather disconnected to reality to deny that. Perhaps you’ve got so much money that you don’t even have to think about it. Bully for you.
KFG, thank you. We’re doing this out of our own pocket, no loans, no nothing. We’re using the money we make to put back into the business as much as we can. It is slow going. It’ll probably take us years to get exactly where we need to be to be able to drop our other jobs.
It might interest some to know that according to the IRS, the effective tax rates are as follows:
Top % Tax Rate1%………..23.13%5%………..20.78%10%……….18.84%25%……….15.86%50%……….13.84%Bottom 50%….2.98%
OVERALL……12.45%
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/05in05tr.xls
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/05in06tr.xls
Did you notice the bottom 50%? Those who make less then $30,881 on average pay an effective tax rate of just 2.98% of their income.
So, half the country is OK with the current IRS tax structure, EXCEPT that they want taxes to be increased for everybody else!
And what share of the nations wealth do those few top percenters hold there Max?
Posted by: J R | October 25, 2007 at 06:01 PM
Ahhhhh, the classical Socialist argument! Now JR wants to talk about something other then INCOME.
JR wants to talk about what people have in ASSETS!
Why? Because JR wants to REDISTRIBUTE ASSETS in his Socialist world. And Hillary will support this to, of course not for herself though.
It’s not ENOUGH that the top 50% of tax filers pay 96.93% of the current INCOME tax, JR and his Socialist friends want to steal away assets from others who have earned more too!
Thief.
The wealthiest Americans still lived beyond the dreams of the average American BEFORE Kennedy cut their taxes!
Max here says he is a hard working vice President.
Yet he is in and out of here all day posting hate Hillary links.
What is Max VP of ? Blogging?
No, I’m no socialist. But socialism is what we will have when the poor continue to get poorer at the mercy of the super wealthy! Save America from the destination of feudal greed OR socialism!
Toady!
By the way, you forgot to add in my organizations I’m involved in, taking care of my dad and grandparents, and my volunteer work.
Posted by: political_mom | October 25, 2007 at 06:07 PM
Oh, 3 part-time jobs, and 1 full-time job, and one family business add up to $32,000 in taxable income?
And you find time to volunteer for unpaid work, while expecting Government to give you free health care?
How nice.
Didn’t the new Dem Congress just raise the minimum wage? Must not have helped much.
Who said I was a VP?
Oh, and I see the lesson the other day on the definition of Socialism still hasn’t sunk in yet.
Get a dictionary JR.
Damn good for nothin public schools….
Max seems to have trouble with the definition of feudalism.
He also has not much appreciation for history.
Max I suggest you study the French Revolution and the Russian revolution as to their causes.
are you telling me you didn’t have a couple professors in your college days, that were so wacked out you didn’t believe a thing he said.. I had some that were very religious and most were atheist.. college professors are a bunch of freaks..
Posted by: BG | October 25, 2007 at 03:55 PM
We had one Professor that kept his doobies in a clear glass jar on his desktop. :)
The truth is that CO2 and temperature are both cause and both effect……. consider this: temperature increase happening before CO2 increase during ice ages was actually PREDICTED 17 years ago by Claude Lorius, Jim Hansen and others, BEFORE the data showed it (Lorius et al. 1990, Nature, 347, 139).”More at link.
Posted by: cosmos | October 25, 2007 at 01:10 PM
cosmos is stuck on co2. cosmos only thinks that temperature and co2 causes climate change. cosmos needs formal education and quickly.
Regarding my earlier posts or Rosa Brooke’s column, and its potential validity, and Cheney’s thinking, consider this:
Immediately after 9/11, Iran condemned the terrorist attack. It provided intel assistance to the US. It basically tried to send an olive branch to the US, and enlarge friendly relationships.
The result of these positive overtures: our preznit, reading a scripted State of the Union address, prepared by some person or persons with influence, labeled Iran, along with Iraq and North Korea, as tri-members of an “axis of evil”.
Anyone who believes that Cheney disagreed with this accusation, but was unable to convince the preznit to drop Iran from this polemic screed is living in fantasy land. In the same speech, Bush falsely asserted that Iraq had tried to procure yellowcake from Niger, after both the CIA chief in Niger, and special envoy Joe Wilson, determined was a fraudulent allegation.
Donald Rumsfeld alleged not only that Iraq had WMDs, he proclaimed, “We know where they are.” So our invading force went to “We know where they are,” to capture these WMDs, and guess what they found. NO WMDs. Which is exactly what the UN inspection team had been finding.
Why would Cheney and unnamed neocons take the fact of Iran’s *aiding* the US, and extending feelers to normalize relations, and turn this into “Axis of Terror” demagoguery? This is a sign of mental illness. It is a sign of depravity.
If Iran were bent on destroying Israel, and this isn’t necessarily true because American media distorts things, but even were it true, it would not be connectable to a threat to Europe. The Europeans don’t see a threat, so why does the VP think there is? There are only three possible answers:
A. Europeans and their leaders are blind to reality.
B. Europeans and their leaders have self-hatred and want to die.
C. Cheney is a congenital lying sociopath (because if the only real threat is to Israel, say that)
B. Cheney is delusional, seeing a threat to Europe posed by Iran that Europeans don’t see, because it doesn’t exist. Cheney may believe A or B, but his belief doesn’t make it true.
Remember the “facts” and “studied opinions” that launched the war on Iraq. These were false. Saddam was building a WMD stockpile. Saddam was working in collusion with Al-Qua’ida. A Shock and Awe campaign would cower Iraqis into quick submission, and they would greet us as “liberators”. It was correct to strip Sunni soldiers, policemen and administrators of their powers–the only people trained to manage a nation–and replace them with Shiia who had no military, police or administrative experience. The total cost of the invasion would be less than $100 billion. Iraq would be passified in “months, not years”. Iraqi oil revenues would pay for the invasion and pacification.
What single thing did the administration predict about the Iraq invasion, that turned out to be true? Zero, zilch, nothing, nada.
Now Cheney believes that nuking Iran is going to be necessary if Iran doesn’t completely shut down its nuclear fuel-enrichment program. Is it in Iran’s interest to build nuclear weapons to carry out a vendetta against Israel, much less Europe, or the United States? No, it would be suicidal.
Could they do it to send a message, “We’re a world power?” Yes. Setting oneself up to be utterly destroyed, and setting oneself up to attain more power, are two very different objectives. This is why Israel, India, North Korea, Pakistan and South Africa “illegally” developed nuclear weapons. How many have they deployed?
Max’s Flat Tax plan, would have a flat rate of 20% on ALL income above $25,000 per person who earns income.
..No more deductions (except for the $25,000 deduction per individual and IRA/401k/Keough deductions for self-employed)
Gone is the mortgage interest deduction.
Gone is tax exempt interest (eg. Municipal bonds AND THIS IS WHERE THE RICH SHELTER THEIR INCOME TODAY!)
Gone is the itemized deduction.
Gone is the Unearned Income Credit.
Gone is the Child and Child care Credits.
Gone is the Cow/Calf credit, etc….
Doesn’t matter whether you are married, single, divorced, living by yourself or 10 people. What business is it of government what your status is? Why should your status determine your tax rate? (Being gay or straight doesn’t matter to the government!)
All the rich living off of tax free municipal investments will now have this income taxed.
Social Security? It’s already been taxed, so all Social Security income will be exempt from taxes the 2nd time.And since Social Security is going to be Means Tested, benefits will be reduced by those who have a lot of assets and have saved a lot of money on their own too. And since we will need to phase out Social Security for some, we need to encourage Private Savings, so 401k/IRA/Keough deductions would still be allowed. (This defers the tax. This is not a tax exemption. The tax will be paid later on when the money is taken out.)
That’s it. Simple. Flat, yet allows $25,000 to live on, and that makes this tax less regressive then just a flat tax.
Welfare for the very poor will continue. No one starves in this country (far from it most are obese) and no one will starve in the future.
Your tax return is 1 page, we can cut back the IRS by 75%. They will still audit self-employed and businesses.
“cosmos is stuck on co2. cosmos only thinks that temperature and co2 causes climate change. cosmos needs formal education and quickly.”
Re: Kansas
DNFTT
Examples of Max’s Flat Tax (all assume no IRA/401k/Keough deductions for simplicity):
If I earn:
$25,000 or less, I pay $0 tax. Effective tax rate is 0%.
$30,000, I pay (30,000 – 25,000 * .2) $1,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 3.3%.
$40,000, I pay (40,000 – 25,000 * .2) $3,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 7.5%.
$50,000, I pay (50,000 – 25,000 * .2) $5,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 10%.
$75,000, I pay $10,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 13.3%.
$100,000, I pay $15,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 15%.
$150,000, I pay $25,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 16.6%.
$250,000, I pay $45,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 18%.
$500,000, I pay $95,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 19%.
$1,000,000, I pay $195,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 19.5%.
$10,000,000, I pay $1,995,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 19.55%.
NOTE: This is a modified flat tax. Note the PROGRESSION in Effective Tax rates as your income rises!
Also note, the rich with tax shelters will be paying taxes on all income (except Social Security which was already taxed). No more tax shelters!
“Max’s flat tax plan” would shift a FANTASTIC weight onto the lower middle class at the benefit of the middle upper and wealthy class.
Max? When did you first decide America was meant to be a feudal/corporate nation?
No JR, my plan eliminates the sheltering of income that the rich have today.
They would pay more under my plan.
$0 tax up to $25,000 is too high for you?
3.3% tax for $30,000 is too high for you?
Give me a break you Socialist!
And JR posts without having time to read the examples!
Predisposed antaganist!
Posts crossed Max.
But you prove my point.
3K to someone making 30K
is a LOT larger hit than 95K on someone making 500K
Feudalist!
Heck, I just calculated my own taxes in 2 minutes (this tax is so simple!), and being in the top 10%, I pay more taxes under this plan!
Damn!
I’m still for it though. It’s more fair for all.
You can’t read JR.
It’s not 3k for someone earning $30,000. It’s 3.3%.
$1,000 in taxes, not $3,000.
What do you want, ZERO?
Must go earn some more income now to pay my taxes.
May be back later if anyone want’s to talk about Max’s Flat Tax Plan.
(Yeah, right!)
Ya gotta realize though, the rich without their tax shelters are going to pay much more taxes then they are today!
Max’s flat tax plan” would shift a FANTASTIC weight onto the lower middle class at the benefit of the middle upper and wealthy class.
Max? When did you first decide America was meant to be a feudal/corporate nation?
Posted by: J R | October 25, 2007 at 06:59 PM
A variation of it is what some Europeans countries do. I have no idea what is now, but back when I was living in Europe, it was 13.9 percent on everything and it was incremental on luxury items, automobiles, houses and etc.
About liberal universities and stoned professors, I never saw any, despite attending the “most liberal” public university in the U.S.
Hmm. Dick Cheney wouldn’t be alive today without federally-funded university biomedical research.
Why aren’t kids dying like flies from scarlet fever, whooping cough, influenza, pneumococcus pneumonia, and polio as occurred a century ago? Because university researchers figured out these diseases and how to defeat them.
Our nation’s political leaders “got it” during WWII that these university eggheads and their graduated students knew a lot of stuff. Like how to develop radar, sonar, high-performance aircraft, chemical explosives, the A-bomb, and high-productivity agriculture to feed our troops, and more.
Our modern economy wouldn’t exist without university research and student-training paid for by the federal government. Ask any Ph.D. developing new innovations for private industry ranging from agriculture to petroleum exploration: Did you have a federal-agency-funded grant that paid for your graduate education? The answer: 100% yes.
Who funded Bell Labs’ invention of the transistor? Who paid for mainframe computer development that enabled a young Bill Gates to learn computer science in high school? Who paid Texas Instruments and Intel for the development of integrated circuits and microelectronics that led to the PC, which made Bill Gates the richest man on earth? Who paid the startup costs for Darpanet that became the Internet?
Who paid the startup costs for Darpanet that became the Internet?
Posted by: MPS | October 25, 2007 at 08:00 PM
The TaxPayers. :)
Actually, in Germany they get a break on Capitol Gains Tax as well. It’s not unique to the U.S.
Kansas,
And that’s okay. My university has received more than a hundred patents a year for several years. It sells licenses to the business sector. Which is fine. The state legislature has continually cut funding, which isn’t fine. The boobocracy is clueless (most of them dems).
On Defense projects which I was associated with, the funding for studies by contract researchers came from two sources, the DOD which subcontracted to either a private company or an University. Sometimes the Universities were a subcontractor of the private companies.
The Bio-Medical researchers where about 10 percent government, 30 percent private companies and the rest University researchers.
I’m sure the statistics have changed on that, but we had a lot of “longhairs” in government facilities doing research.
“That’s it. Simple. Flat, yet allows $25,000 to live on, and that makes this tax less regressive then just a flat tax.”– Max –
Max, you are guaranteeing $25,000 to everybody to live on. But.. But.. That would be a form of the very Socialism that you hate so much! So, what are you? A Corporatist??? (Facist, by definition)
There is NO Socialist Nation in the world at the present time, where ALL people make the same income. (At least not that I can find) Links anybody??
There is NO Socialist Nation in the world at the present time, where ALL people make the same income. (At least not that I can find) Links anybody??
Posted by: sugar | October 25, 2007 at 08:27 PM
There wasn’t under Communism either. You made what the “Party” told you could make.
Of course, the leaders of the Communist countries lived like millionaires and unscrupulous Party leaders cashed in as well.
There will always be rich and poor in a society, no matter the structure.
Utopia doesn’t exist.
Pentagon Holds ‘Bloggers Roundtables’ To Cater To Right-Wing Noise MachineToday, Glenn Greenwald observes that the military has become “rapidly politicized, fully incorporated into…the model of the Republican right-wing noise machine.” Since January, the Pentagon has sought advice from “political hacks” like Bush/Cheney ‘04 aide Steve Schmidt who recently “went over to Iraq to look at the communications capabilities” of the military.Another aspect of this politicization is the budding ties between the right-wing blogosphere and the military. Last October, the Pentagon announced that it was “starting an operation akin to a political campaign war room” in order to “set the record straight” on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New teams were to “develop messages” focusing “on newer media, such as blogs.”In February, the Pentagon began holding Bloggers Roundtables to “provide source material for stories in the blogosphere concerning the DoD and the Global War on Terrorism.” But at these roundtables, the Pentagon has reserved space almost exclusively for conservatives and military bloggers. Some examples of the bloggers on the roundtables just this month:WizbangWeekly StandardThreats WatchQando.netU.S. Cavalry On PointGriff Jenkins (Fox News anchor)Air Force PunditMilitary.comDefense Technology InternationalAustin BayWhen the program was started in February, the calls occurred approximately once a week; since September, the Defense Department PR team has surged the roundtables’ frequency to nearly every day. Many of these conservative bloggers regularly appear on the calls, receiving unfettered access to military strategy in Iraq and Afghanistan. One military official explained the real intent:[W]e’re trying to do as many of these type of blogger calls as possible to let folks know what is really going on out there and to provide the opportunity for people to hear and write about it.Despite the regular frequency of the “Blogger Roundtables,” progressive bloggers or anti-war military bloggers are rarely featured. Furthermore, small blogs like that of Fox News anchor Griff Jenkins are featured on the calls while more prominent progressive blogs are not.
Max seems to identify Socialism as a nation where all people make an equal amount of income, no matter what their profession.
Max would appear to be in error.
“The U.S. Embassy on Wednesday began offering tens of thousands of dollars in payments to victims and families of victims of the Sept. 16 shootings in Baghdad involving security guards from the firm Blackwater.” Several family members turned down the compensation, saying they still wanted “to sue Blackwater in an American court.”
Why is taxpayer money being used to buy off the victims families. Blackwater should be using their own money.
Why is taxpayer money being used to buy off the victims families. Blackwater should be using their own money.
Posted by: poster | October 25, 2007 at 08:51 PM
============================
You are absolutely RIGHT! This is a travesty of tax payer dollars! Unless of course, the USA is admitting some sort of complicity in the killings. Hmmmmm….
Sugar there you go again – you ole troll you – finding a conspiracy behind every exclamation point!!!
The reasons for the record numbers at the Lord’s Diner are most likely due to the crazy high cost of fuel and food inflation. Two areas the FED doesn’t even consider as ‘core inflation’.
‘Scientists Publicly Denounce Latest White House Climate Change Muzzling’http://www.desmogblog.com/scientists-publicly-denounce-latest-white-house-climate-change-muzzling
“Today, scientists are publicly denouncing the White House for the “censoring of science,” after it was uncovered earlier this week that significant edits were made to testimony prepared for a Senate hearing on the impact of climate change on health.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/GlobalHealth/story?id=3775766&page=1
White House officials deleted key portions citing diseases that could flourish in a warmer climate.”http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-global-warming-health,0,3740592.story
More details and links at DeSmogBlog.
Will Congress Declare War on Iran before Bush commits our troops and resources? If he declares war on Iran cna / will Congress stop him? What would DoD do?
Is there any anti war stirrings occuring on our college campuses? What about WSU, Friensa, KU KSU ? Now would be a good time to start before troops and resources are committed if they really want to try and stop Bush? Or….. without the motivstion of the draft will they just sit around and talk about it between their latte’s, beer bongs …..
ksagnostic,
I don’t need to feed it. My previous posts prove that it’s a liar, and a clueless idiot.
MPS,
Re funding research, an interesting speech Al Gore made in 1996, about ENIAC, ARPANET, NSFNET, etc.
‘The Technology Challenge: How Can America Spark Private Innovation?’http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/lazowska/faculty.lecture/innovation/gore.html
Al Gore wrote and pushed the very important legislation,
‘Title I: High-Performance Computing and the National Research and Education Network’http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d102:SN00272:@@@L&summ2=m&
‘Scientists Publicly Denounce Latest White House Climate Change Muzzling’Sounds lie big daddy bush doesn’t think we can handle the truth!
Did you notice the bottom 50%? Those who make less then $30,881 on average pay an effective tax rate of just 2.98% of their income.
So, half the country is OK with the current IRS tax structure, EXCEPT that they want taxes to be increased for everybody else!
Posted by: Max | October 25, 2007 at 06:09 PM
Max, I so feel sorry for that top 1%. Maybe they’d trade places with me?
Oh, 3 part-time jobs, and 1 full-time job, and one family business add up to $32,000 in taxable income?
And you find time to volunteer for unpaid work, while expecting Government to give you free health care?
How nice.
Didn’t the new Dem Congress just raise the minimum wage? Must not have helped much.
Posted by: Wahawk | October 25, 2007 at 06:27 PM
What Wa? Would it make you feel better to hear me say that I sat around on my butt all day?
What’s your problem? I work hard, I’ve got a lot of things going on. I deserve better than this crap.
The Phantom,
Or maybe Bush does not want it to interfere with Cheney’s 2001 fossil-fuel energy plan???
Wahawk is nothing but a good for nothing Troll. DNFTT
Max, you are guaranteeing $25,000 to everybody to live on. But.. But.. That would be a form of the very Socialism that you hate so much! So, what are you? A Corporatist??? (Facist, by definition)
Posted by: sugar | October 25, 2007 at 08:25 PM
No Sugar, not guranteeing anything. Your first $25,000 of INCOME, is tax free.
Did I mention this is an Individual Income tax plan?
That is, Every Individual who files a tax return has a $25,000 deduction, then 20% tax rate above that.
So 2 people living together (man – man, man – woman, woman – woman, whatever) if both earn $25,000, combined they earn $50,000 and pay $0 income tax!
If one person earns $30,000 ($1,000 for taxes), and the other earns $50,000 ($5,000 for taxes), then combined they have $80,000 in Income and pay $6,000 in taxes. That’s an effective tax rate of 7.5% for $80,000 in combined income.
Tax fairness is not an issue with some liberals. They want to use the government to stick it to the man.
It has always been that way. When JFK took office, the top marginal U.S. tax rate was 91%! He cut it to 70%. When Reagan took office, it was still 70%. That left a lot of room for Reagan tax cuts to energize the economy. And they did.
I’m sure there are folks that would love to return those high tax days, despite the destructive effect it would have on this country’s economy.
But to be fair, the stories we hear of massive salaries that some CEOs have made while sending work overseas and reducing wages and benefits for workers breeds this kind of thinking. With some justification.
Max seems to identify Socialism as a nation where all people make an equal amount of income, no matter what their profession.
Max would appear to be in error.
Posted by: sugar | October 25, 2007 at 08:41 PM
Sugar, where I have ever said anything remotely close to that?
Sugar, are you over 12 years old? If not, you need to go to sleep.
Nearly every day you accuse the Left of being Socialist, and want all to earn the same income.
Just go read your own posts! You still dont have the right definition of Socialism, as I have told you many times.
I helped my oldest daughter prepare her tax returns last year. Right out of college, she made just over $30,000. She paid around $1,900 in Federal taxes.
Under Max’s plan, she would pay $1,000 in Federal taxes. That’s a tax cut of $900 (almost a 50% tax cut) for someone in her situation earning $30,000.
Of course Social Security and Medicare took around $2,200. (The employer match would be another $2,200) So the Government took $4,400 in Social Security from her, and it’s quite likely that a successful 22 year-old today, will not see a dime of Social Security, and God knows what Medicare will look like in 45 years.
Max — Where can yo find in any proposed Universal Health Care plan, that all doctors would make the same salary? You have posted that numerous times, wrongly attacking Universal Health Care as Socialized Medicine.
And where did you plan to insert State Income Tax into your plan?
Max — The employer match is not income for your daughter, therefore the government only took $2,200 from her for Soc. Sec. and Medicare.
When JFK took office, the top marginal U.S. tax rate was 91%!
Yeah!
And that was after the decade you cons so love….the 50’s.
In the 50’s, most people had jobs that lasted their whole lives. They earned a living wage.
Kennedy damaged this just a bit.
Then Reagan started the march to feudalism.
Nothing would help right alot of wrongs better than going back to pre Kennedy tax rates.
You would be much better off if you stopped trying to manipulate numbers.
I’m thru posting definitions for you Sugar.
You are either incredibly dense or you just like to play games.
I have never said I want everyone to earn the same income.
You Socialists would have everyone PAID the same, if you ever get your way.
If you don’t like being called a Socialist, then you must be ashamed to publically admit to taking other peoples money, and to admit that you can’t make it on your own.
Get a job, start paying your own way in life, look at your paystub and see the taxes come out of your pocket, and you may stop being a Socialist.
Or just wear your Socialist label proudly.
Max, why do you keep insisting that Socilists want everybody paid the same? That is so NOT Socialism. YOU sir, need to locate a really good historical encyclopedia of Economics.
Max — The employer match is not income for your daughter, therefore the government only took $2,200 from her for Soc. Sec. and Medicare.
Posted by: sugar | October 25, 2007 at 10:30 PM
Another Liberal Socialist Democrat myth.
If my daughter wasn’t working, the Feds would not have $4,400 in tax revenue.
If she’s self employed, it even comes directly out of her back pocket.
As an employer, I must budget the salary, benefits, Social Security and Medicare paid on behalf of the employee to the Federal Government.
You Liberal Democrat Socialists like to claim that the employer match is free money.
Same koolaid for all of you.
Excuse me, but being self-employed, my taxes are paid quarterly. I dont have the luxury of having a monthly deduction.
Thus, the employer match is out of the employer’s pocket, and not your daughter’s.
“I’m sure there are folks that would love to return those high tax days, despite the destructive effect it would have on this country’s economy.”
Chuckle.. I had you in mind when I wrote that JR. I would submit that you either don’t understand this economy or else you don’t care what happens to it as long as some rich guys feel some pain. Your own brand of selfishness.
As self-employed, the entire Social Security payment comes out of my pocket. Not split with anybody. Maybe that is the way it should be for everybody. I dont know anymore.
As an employer Max, your sole pursuit in life is to exploit your employees.
I am GRATEFUL we have government and regulations to compel you to treat them and pay them fairly. You sure as hell would not do so on your own.
How very “christian” of you outie.
Oh and I understand this economy quite well. And it is QUITE “christian”….old testament that is.
Slavery, people belonging to other people and so on?
And where did you plan to insert State Income Tax into your plan?
Posted by: sugar | October 25, 2007 at 10:28 PM
Several states have NO income tax. They have a higher sales tax, which wouldn’t be a bad approach for the Feds either.
I think Max’s Modified Flat Tax is more likely to pass for a couple of reasons:
1)I’m not sure the Constitution would support a National Sales Tax, like it does an income tax.
2)A National Sales Tax may be seen by some to be more regressive.
Another option for the states would be to model the state plan after the Federal plan. An easy approach would be to calculate the State Income tax based on a percentage of the Federal Income tax.
Thus, someone earning $30,000 would pay $1,000 in Federal tax. The state of Kansas might then say that person owes 30% of the $1,000 as a state income tax. (That’s $300 for you non-math majors.)
Imagine, a 1-page Federal Tax form, and a Post Card State tax form.
No more paying the tax attorney or tax accountant, H & R block or anyone else. Just take 10 minutes to do both your Federal and State taxes! The most time consuming part is finding the postage stamp. (Online tax filing would be nice.)
As an employer Max, your sole pursuit in life is to exploit your employees.
Posted by: JR | October 25, 2007 at 10:38 PM
bawhahaha….Ol Jr is still at it – badmouthing anyone that has the stones to run a business, meet a payroll, take a risk….
Live off his exploiters parents money like you golfnut.
Do make sure you finish the list.
I am GRATEFUL we have government and regulations to compel you to treat them and pay them fairly. You sure as hell would not do so on your own.
Posted by: J R | October 25, 2007 at 10:38 PM
How Christian of you JR.
You have no idea how well I treat my employees.
High School grads start at $25,000/year, 4 weeks of vacation, premium benefits, incentive plans that add up to $10,000 more per year, and a 6-week training program for new hires. And that’s the starting package!
No union or government tells me to do that. It makes good business sense to attract good employees, you have to have something to offer. In return, I get some good productive people on my team. It’s the right thing to do, and it’s a win-win situation.
Go Punt JR.
Mommy and Daddy restaurant made you didn’t they goof?
Max, you have just described a major economic dilemma. If you eliminate all of those jobs that people do now, where do you propose that they find work? They will become jobless. Do you have any idea how many people are currently employed by the IRS now?What will your tax plan do to help those folks? Or do you not care?
You’ve lied before Max. Do you imagine I believe your last posted crap?
Live off his exploiters parents money like you golfnut.
Posted by: J R | October 25, 2007 at 10:48 PM
My parents have me over for dinner about once a month – along with the rest of my family. Generally it’s a good steak. Do your folks not treat you well, Jr?
Punt? Nah.
Me and mine gonna give you and yours a swift kick.
My folks are far better people than yours goof nut.
That is clearly observable in your posts here.
Still stalking political mom?
Sugar,Do you not see the incredible inefficiency associated with having “all those people” working for the IRS?
Just imagine if they were working to HELP the economy, rather than hinder it.
My folks are far better people than yours goof nut.
Posted by: J R | October 25, 2007 at 10:55 PM
Typical Jr post.
Typical and true goof.
My folks worked for a living.
Yours made your their living, and yours off the work of others.
Speaking of simpltons…
Whatever happened to DA?
hey, golfnut — you didnt answer my challenge, of what you will do with all of those people who would end up unemployed under max’s proposal. stay on point, please.
“challenge”?
What challenge? I answered the question.
golfnut, it isnt just the IRS – there are those who work for H&R Block, for the numerous accounting firms, the tax lawyers(who could probably switch specialties), the numerous computer techs, and secretaries who work for all of the above. what becomes of their jobs if max’s plan should become reality?
seems to me that there would be a huge increase in people who had nowhere to work, and no place to find jobs. do you want to hire them?
no, you didnt. you just said they would be unemployed. you didnt say how that would impact the economy, which is what i posted earlier.
oh well, it doesnt matter – time to get on to some other matters here. you all have a nice evening!
Taking a break from trolling for fornicatable females Golf?
Max, you have just described a major economic dilemma. If you eliminate all of those jobs that people do now, where do you propose that they find work? They will become jobless. Do you have any idea how many people are currently employed by the IRS now?What will your tax plan do to help those folks? Or do you not care?
Posted by: sugar | October 25, 2007 at 10:50 PM
Golfnut answered it. These people would have to find productive jobs. Pushing paper around all day to make sure taxpayers have paid what they owe, is NOT productive work.
Funny how a Lib would care all of sudden about a tax attorney or an accountant.
These people supposedly have skills that would be useful to businesses or they can start their own companies – something that is Productive.
Government jobs that regulate greed head employers are not just productive but VITAL jobs.
But to be fair, the stories we hear of massive salaries that some CEOs have made while sending work overseas and reducing wages and benefits for workers breeds this kind of thinking. With some justification.
Posted by: outlander | October 25, 2007 at 10:19 PM
Agree with you on this point Outlander. One would think stock holders would help keep executive salaries/bonuses/stock options under control, but anymore it’s the executives who become major shareholders as they are paid with stock options.
Short of the government regulating executive salaries (like the government does now with doctor’s salaries) there’s no great approach I can think of.
Instead of directly controlling salaries, government could limit the business deductability for individual salaries over X ($1 mill, $10 mill?). Not sure how stock options are expensed, but limiting that as a deductible item might help. Eliminating deferred earnings above X might also help.
I have no good answer, but I do not like too much government control over our lives. They have enough already.
Government jobs that regulate greed head employers are not just productive but VITAL jobs.
Posted by: J R | October 25, 2007 at 11:14 PM
LOL! Saving this one JR. Unreal! You ever seen government workers?
Forbes Predicts Bloomberg-Gore Ticket
Thursday, October 25, 2007 6:56 PM“Publisher Steve Forbes predicts that former vice president and recent Nobel laureate Al Gore will endorse New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s independent bid for president.
Bloomberg will return the favor by naming Gore his running mate, Forbes says.”
I’ll take government over employer every time.
Government I can elect or toss out. Employers generally have their foot on the throat of their employees AND the self employed like me.
Here’s What The Socialist Liberal Democrats will do for America:
http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=5E9B50DF-7E64-417B-8ADC-1BCFE0F07536
The Democrats’ Hidden Tax Plans
By Dick MorrisFrontPageMagazine.com | Thursday, October 25, 2007
It’s easy to see the disguises that the Democratic Party is planning to don for Halloween. Not this year, but in 2009, after they have elected Hillary as president and as many as 58 Democratic senators. (Possible takeaways in Minnesota, New Hampshire, Maine, Oregon, Virginia, Nebraska, Colorado and New Mexico.)
While we can only speculate on the taxes they are planning to increase — “everything” would be a safe bet — it is becoming clear how they will dress the tax increases up to make the radical change they will, in fact, represent seem moderate and reasonable, even necessary to protect the “middle class.”
Our military are government employees Max.
Are you attacking THEIR competence?
Ya, Hillary Will Fix Social Security
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2007/10/137_12533.html
Clinton’s Social Security Evasions
By Jay AmbroseScripps Howard News Service
Hillary Rodham Clinton says she has a million ideas, and the dreadful, terrible shame is that one of them isn’t to do anything about Social Security except dance away and invent fabrications.
Dick Morris.
Well his first name is apt.
He is a sell out.
Much as Reagan was a sell out.
“Golfnut answered it. These people would have to find productive jobs. Pushing paper around all day to make sure taxpayers have paid what they owe, is NOT productive work.”
Regardless of what you think, taxes have to be paid no matter what system we use…and you think people will just do it without oversight and be honest? Are you retarded? See, this is what I think, that people like you can’t wait to have the threat of audit over- so that you can practice all the tax evasion you can.
Case in point, note my statement earlier saying we filed for a tax id. The stuff we’ve made before we’ve kept track of and will claim it as personal income to that point. Even being as strapped as we are trying to do all this stuff, we still have no interest in screwing the government and paying our share.
Dems To Steal More Money from Working Americans:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/25/you-say-tax-reform-i-say-tax-hike/
October 25, 2007, 6:37 pm
You Say ‘Tax Reform’, I Say ‘Tax Hike’By David M. Herszenhorn
WASHINGTON, Oct. 25 — Republicans wasted no time on Thursday responding to a proposal to overhaul the tax code by Representative Charles B. Rangel, the New York Democrat and chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.“Dead on arrival,” declared Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader.“$3.2 trillion in tax hikes affecting millions and millions of Americans,” said Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona, the Republican conference chairman.“A gigantic job killer,” said Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, the Republican leader. “At the worst possible time for American families.”
“The mother of all tax hikes,” said Representative Roy Blount of Missouri, the Republican whip. “And given its scale, it might be the father, grandfather, nephew and second-cousin of them as well.”
“Are you retarded?”
P-mom,
Shame, shame…
Dems to Give Tax Cuts to Corporations! (Need to check for Corporate Campaign Contributions to Democrats!)
http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/10/25/afx4262437.html
AFX News LimitedDemocrats propose lowering top US corporate tax rate, closing loopholes UPDATE10.25.07, 12:41 PM ET
WASHINGTON (Thomson Financial) – The chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee today introduced an ambitious tax plan that would lower the top marginal corporate income tax rate by nearly 13 pct, even as it would close a number of tax loopholes for corporations and investment managers in a way that is expected to generate more revenue for the government.
The bill introduced by Committee Chairman Charles Rangel of New York today would also use the revenues generated to reduce personal income taxes and spare individuals and families from the alternative minimum tax (AMT), which the US Treasury Department has warned would hit tens of millions of people unless it is adjusted.
They that have ever mindful to keep the have nots down political mom.
They live off the backs of others. They prefer to keep their employees subjugate and stupid.
P_mom,
Now Max is retarded or brain dead, I can’t decide which.
Me I answer to no one. And I demand no one answer to me that they earn their living.
“Are you retarded”
PMom, don’t you have a retarded kid? SHAME ON YOU!
Pmom, there would still be IRS audits under Max’s plan, don’t worry.
You have any idea how cumbersome the current process is in processing thousands of form types, and millions of pages of IRS Regs?
A flat tax will greatly simplify the income tax filing, collection, and audit process.
Wouldn’t you rather see that money used to fund the IRS go to Health Care for the Poor or to pay off the National Debt?
JR, you didn’t read my post above describing the people I hire and what I pay them, or you choose not to believe it.
Obviously you haven’t been around the block much, or you would have noticed much opportunity out there.
Saw a Help Wanted Sign just today at Taco Bell – $10/hour! That’s $20,800 per year to make tacos!
Surely JR, you can do better then that!
Maxie pad is retarded, that was a easy one.
Blasphemy, I think you just caught Pmom in a lie. Surely if one or both of her children are mentally retarded, she wouldn’t use that term so loosely on this blog.
Shame on you PMom. And I was trying to get your taxes cut down to Zero too!
$32,000 per year for both you and your husband?
Under Max’s plan, if you made $25,000 or less, and your husband made $25,000 or less, then you two would pay Zero Federal Income taxes.
$0, that’s probably too high for you.
I’m sure the WE Blog editors love to see such constructive responses.
One day the owners might start charging a fee in order to keep the rif raff out, or they just shut-down the blog.
You Libs see a fair tax plan, and you just go ballistic!
Not one bit of constructive criticism, but that was expected.
Good night libs.
Cry away!
I’ve done the employee thing Max.
It met me lots of folks like you. No thanks.
I’m self employed. This country can choose whether I do it in or outside the law.
Max consistently does not know the difference between the words “then” and “than”.
He may just be the victim of a public school education.
The poor man. :-)
Where’s Cosmos?
We need some global warming debate.
Max, if PMom and her hubby own their business together, they couldnt each claim half of the income, and fall beneath your $25,000 bottom end. They would have to claim the income jointly.
Well, the sock puppet ballet begins, and it isnt even midnight yet. how terrible!
This isn’t fair! The other day there were 2 Gay Topics posted, and we can’t get 1 Global Warming Topic?
Sugar, you sound like Chas!
Is that you?
“We need some global warming debate.”Posted by: palm trees for sale
I think it would be cool if people like you could tell the difference between ‘gobal warming debate’ and masturbate.
Not thinking that will happen in your life-time.
Gee Sugar, you sound EXACTLY like Chas!
“Well, the sock puppet ballet begins,”
Palm Trees, we are looking into the Sugar character, tracking his IP at this moment.
We will soon know for sure if this is Chas.
Confidence is high.
Oh, and yes if Sugar is Chas, that would be a violation of Chas’ boycott agreement.
Chas will thus be banned for an additional 4 days plus 2 penalty days or 6 days beyond the end of the boycott, which is EOD 10/31.
“And I’ve posted that the huge UNCERTAINTY re future climate is the main problem.
If we knew EXACTLY how much it’d warm, how much the sea level would rise, we could plan for it.”
Posted by: cosmos | July 08, 2007 at 02:44 PM
cosmos doesn’t know, he is posting guesses.
crickets chirping…
“I’ve posted before that the climate models are flawed.
And I’ve posted that the huge UNCERTAINTY re future climate is the main problem.
If we knew EXACTLY how much it’d warm, how much the sea level would rise, we could plan for it.”
Posted by: cosmos | July 08, 2007 at 02:44 PM
crickets chirping…
WHERE is Kansas’ “science” re “Earth’s axis rotation and solar activity has more to do with the arctic melting than co2″???
WHERE is Kansas’ “science” re “I’m going with the 98 percent variable of natural climate change as the cause.”???
Although my son is not technically retarded, I don’t use the term loosely, I save it for really really dumb posts.
And that was it. I said we’re probably going to clear over 41k this year. that’s with all of our jobs.
“I’ve posted before that the climate models are flawed.
And I’ve posted that the huge UNCERTAINTY re future climate is the main problem.
If we knew EXACTLY how much it’d warm, how much the sea level would rise, we could plan for it.”
Posted by: cosmos | July 08, 2007 at 02:44 PM
Helthcare is you taking care of yourself, brush your teeth, get regular exercise, eat properly. avoid undue stress and….smile. We have terrible diets, too much booze and get no exercise, we’re overweight and inhale terribe things into our lungs. Stop doing all that and health insurance becomes like auto insurance, for catastrophic needs only and would be a helluva lot cheaper, private, universal or any combination of both.