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Open thread 10/30
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Oct. 30, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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Sibel Edwards, translator for the FBI up to 9-11 refuses to remain silent.
This could be big, folks.
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5197
EXCLUSIVE: FBI Whistleblower Sibel Edmonds Will Now Tell All - and Faces Charges if Necessary - to Any Major Television Network That Will Let Her
She’s Prepared to Name Names, Including Those of Two ‘Well-Known’ Congress Members Involved in Criminal Corruption
The ‘Most Gagged Person in U.S. History’ Tells The BRAD BLOG She’s Now Exhausted All Other Channels…
– By Brad Friedman
Attention CBS 60 Minutes: we’ve got a huge scoop for you. If you want it.
Remember the exclusive story you aired on Sibel Edmonds, originally on October 27th, 2002, when she was not allowed to tell you everything that she heard while serving as an FBI translator after 9/11 because she was gagged by the rarely-invoked “States Secret Privilege”? Well, she’s still gagged. In fact, as the ACLU first described her, she’s “the most gagged person in the history of the United States of America”.
But if you’ll sit down and talk with her for an unedited interview, she has told The BRAD BLOG, she will now tell you everything she knows.
Everything she hasn’t been allowed to tell since 2002, about the criminal penetration of the FBI where she worked, and at the Departments of State and Defense; everything she heard concerning the corruption and illegal activities of several well-known members of Congress; everything she’s aware of concerning information omitted and/or covered up in relation to 9/11. All of the information gleaned from her time listening to and translating wire-taps made prior to 9/11 at the FBI.
Here’s a handy bullet-point list, as we ran it in March of 2006, for reference, of what she’s now willing to tell you about.
“People say, ‘why doesn’t she just come forward and spill the beans?’ I have gone all the way to the Supreme Court and was shut down, I went to Congress and now consider that shut down,” she told The BRAD BLOG last week when spoke with her for comments in relation to our story on former House Speaker Dennis Hastert’s original attempt to move a resolution through the U.S. House in 2000 declaring the 1915 massacre of 1.5 million ethnic Albanians in Turkey as “genocide”.
“Here’s my promise to the American Public: If anyone of the major networks — ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, FOX — promise to air the entire segment, without editing, I promise to tell them everything that I know,” about everything mentioned above, she told us.
“I can tell the American public exactly what it is, and what it is that they are covering up,” she continued. “I’m not compromising ongoing investigations,” Edmonds explained, because “they’ve all been shut down since.”
MORE AT LINK
For those unfamiliar with the larger pictures of Edmonds’ allegations and what she would like to testify about before the Congress and the American people — all based on what she heard and saw first-hand while working as an FBI translator just after 9/11 — please see the following bullet point summary of just a few of her explosive whistleblowing allegations…
9/11 Related:
Information omitted and covered-up regarding documented and confirmed case of a long-term FBI Informant & Asset who provided the FBI with specific information and warnings in April & June 2001 regarding 9/11 terrorist attacks.
Information omitted & covered up regarding documented information in the procession of the FBI in July 2001 regarding blue prints and building composite information of Sky Scrapers being sent to certain groups in the Middle East by certain Middle-Eastern suspects in the State of Nevada.
Information omitted & covered up regarding arrangements made between the State Department and certain countries to deport Middle-Eastern and Central Asian detainees from jails in New Jersey & New York off the record and without having them interrogated in November 2001. (Documents related to these suspects were forged at the FBI).
Information omitted & covered up regarding nuclear related information illegally obtained by certain foreign entities and US persons (government officials) from several US labs being sold to a certain Middle-Eastern group in the United States in 1998-2000. The operation involved individuals with Diplomatic cover, foreign Ph.D. students, and US employees.
Information omitted & covered up regarding money laundering & narcotics operations, some of which involved entities from the Middle East and the Balkans, in several US cities.
Information omitted & covered up regarding certain Pakistani Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI)-related activities linked to the 9/11 attacks between August & October 2001.
Certain terrorist related Counterintelligence/FISA information & investigations were prevented from being transferred to counterterrorism & criminal division by the Department of State and the Pentagon; “preserving sensitive diplomatic relations” and “protecting certain US foreign business relations (mainly involving weapons procurement)” were cited as reasons.
Intentional mistranslation & blocking of foreign language intelligence of FBI counterterrorism and counterintelligence investigations.
Penetration of FBI, Department of State and Department of Defense:
Melek Can Dickerson: FBI; formerly employed by the American Turkish Council (ATC) and American Turkish Association (ATA).
Major Douglas Dickerson: Air Force, DIA; formerly worked with the American Turkish Council (ATC), had on going relationship with International Advisors Inc (IAI) principles who worked as lobbying arms for certain foreign nations and foreign non-state entities (some of whom were engaged in illegal activities in the United States and against US interests and national Security.)
Cases reported by John M. Cole, Veteran FBI Counterintelligence Operations Manager, to the DOJ-IG & Congress involving Hadiya Roberts (ISI-Pakistan), and several other individuals.
Documented cases under FBI counterintelligence surveillance between 1997 and 2002, involving US government officials from the Department of State, DOD, and certain elected officials who were recipients of regular payments made by state and non-state foreign entities, some involved in criminal operations against US interests & national security. These cases were prevented from being transferred to actionable criminal and/or counterterrorism divisions/investigations.
A reported case of penetration of FBI New York Field Office by an Iranian rouge agent.
I give her two weeks before she is found dead in a hotel of an apparent “suicide”.
Sounds like a major “smoking gun” -I hope you arent right, Doug!
A FEW INSPIRED THOUGHTS.Chris Mathews of Hardball dumb founded his guest commentators, when he pointed out to them that though the cry is for change. It appears the electorate is not responding to the message of Obama and Edwards when they criticize Hillary Clinton for her vote to go to war. Since she is leading in the poll nationally and have of all the Democratic candidates sound most like Bush in her thoughts on Terrorism and foreign policy. The cry for change is hollow and the Democrats will get what they deserve.
*****Six years after 9-11, we are still having a lot of ineffective programs and overblown efforts to combat terrorism. More what seems “knee jerk” reactions then thought out efforts. A growing terrorism watch list, warrant-less wire tapping, government agencies running around chasing every shadow. Seeing everyone as a terrorist until they are proven otherwise as if it is the entire world instead of a small percentage of it is wanting to actually do harm. I can understand knee jerk reactions, the evening of 9-11 when I woke up and realized that terrorists had hijacked airliners and flown them in to the world trade center and the Pentagon.My first response was to get my Mac90 out, check the 30 round clip to make sure it was full and the weapon was in working order. Then sat on my couch and stared at the news coverage. It took me all of ten minutes to realize that me setting in the middle of Kansas with a semi-automatic rifle. Was not going to change the facts and it was an over reaction to a feeling of helplessness at something I could not understand. I have forgiven myself for such an overreaction, I am human and when faced with the unknown or not being able to understand something it is a natural reaction to become defensive. It took me ten minutes to realize what I was doing was ineffective and a knee jerk reaction. Six years later is it not about time that our government also stops and go at the problem logically?
****Hey it is that time of year! Fest up people, have you seen a ghost? A strange creature? It happen one night, I had been watching “Ghost Hunters” and having recently read a Bigfoot report about a man whom in the middle of the night gotten up to have a cigarette. When he attempted to open the screen door, it stopped short as if it hit something. It was then that he noted that he could not see the neighbor’s yard light, something was blocking his view. Suddenly the light appeared as a large creature leapt from the front porch and ran across the yard.
The episode of Ghost hunter’s was very spooky with disembodied voices and a brick flying across the room by itself. I had to go to work about then and as I pushed out the screen door it stopped short! My heart stopped for a moment…. Then I realized that I was standing on the string my wife had attached to the screen door for our kittens to play with !!! Boo….Heee!
But this the only time I have seen what could have been a ghost, it was around one A.M. and the computer desk is where you can see into the basement. Out of the corner of my eye I saw someone rather tall come from my daughter’s room just at the foot of the stair. To the other side of the stair well over to a the wash room. Now my oldest son was almost 16 then and the only other person in the house then me who is quite that tall. So I turn to face down the stairs and ask what he was doing in his sister’s room? When suddenly the door that leads farther into the basement opened and my oldest came shuffling out to go to the bathroom from his room. I rushed passed him to see whom I had saw going across in front of the stairwell. But there was no one there and no way to have gotten out of the basement without passing back across.
At the time I did not mention it to anyone else in the house, as all three kids slept in the basement and I did not want to get their imaginations going.
But years later after they had all moved out, I asked if anyone else had seen any strange things in the basement? It turns out everyone except my daughter had seen a tall shadowy, figure down there at one time or another! My wife and two sons had seen the figure too, only once had I heard a disembodied voice, my computer desk was in the basement and one day I heard a very human voice simulation a frog! “rib-it rib-it”
I was the only one home at the time.
Well anyone else want to tell you story?
The hundred-foot white cross atop the Immanuel Baptist Church in downtown Wichita, Kan., casts a shadow over a neighborhood of payday lenders, pawnbrokers and pornographic video stores. To its parishioners, this has long been the front line of the culture war. Immanuel has stood for Southern Baptist traditionalism for more than half a century.http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/magazine/28Evangelicals-t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
It’s a long but interesting read. It demonstrates how Christians in general and Evangelicals in particular are changing. Republicans can no longer count on unquestioning votes from the Religious Right.
if she had verifiable information, she would have been dead long ago. It’s easy to allege anything on a blog when you don’t have to back it up…
When George W. Bush surveys his presidency, he will see two wars commenced and none concluded, Osama bin Laden still on the loose, American prestige at record lows throughout the world, a military both broken and abused, and a country that in large part thinks its government is a liar. Guinness World Records will need a chapter for Bush alone.
It is, though, that bit about lack of trust in government that may be the most important and intractable.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/29/AR2007102901473.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
“America thinks that Bush is its prime enemy…This is the lamentable legacy of George W. Bush — an abuse of trust that has weakened the country he swore to protect.”
The largest dam in Iraq is in serious danger of an imminent collapse that could unleash a trillion-gallon wave of water, possibly killing thousands of people and flooding two of the largest cities in the country, according to new assessments by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and other U.S. officials.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/29/AR2007102902193.html?hpid=artslot
Sweet!(NOT)
The Justice Department has dropped all criminal charges against a Chinese national accused of selling technology made by his Silicon Valley employer to a Chinese cruise missile laboratory, court records show.http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/10/29/dual.use.indictment.ap/index.html
I guess it’s ok as long as a Republican is in the White House.
Just thought I would say hi… and I love the world… having a moment!
Pretty good dustup on Iran last night on the Newshour between Norman Podhoretz and Fareed Zakaria. Podhoretz was plainly nuts and a nasty piece of work to boot; he had no answer to Zakaria and could only call him names. It’s obvious the neocons have a hard-on for bombing Iran, and won’t let little things like “facts” and “reality” stand in their way.
I hope GMC70 watches it; it will be good to hear him denounce Podhoretz’s repeated comparisons of Ahmadinejad to Hilter.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/057323.php
Podohoretz, by the way, is a senior advisor to Ghouliani.
Director of National Intelligence Adm. Mike McConnell will today disclose “that national intelligence activities amounting to roughly 80 percent of all U.S. intelligence spending for the year cost more than $40 billion. … The disclosure means that when military spending is added, aggregate U.S. intelligence spending for fiscal 2007 exceeded $50 billion.”
So where is this money going? As a matter of fact where has all the money gone that has been appropriated for the war?
if she had verifiable information, she would have been dead long ago. It’s easy to allege anything on a blog when you don’t have to back it up… Posted by: swallow my nickel | October 30, 2007 at 06:57 AM
So you’re saying that the Bush administration would murder people to shut them up?
Worried about all those recalled products from China?
“Tougher consumer protections opposed by agency chair.Nancy A. Nord, President Bush’s acting chairwoman of the Consumer Product Safety Commission, “has asked Congress in recent days to reject legislation that would strengthen the agency that polices thousands of consumer goods, from toys to tools.” The New York Times reports:
On the eve of an important Senate committee meeting to consider the legislation, Nancy A. Nord, the acting chairman of the Consumer Product Safety Commission, has asked lawmakers in two letters not to approve the bulk of legislation that would increase the agency’s authority, double its budget and sharply increase its dwindling staff. […]
Ms. Nord, who before joining the agency had been a lawyer at Eastman Kodak and an official at the United States Chamber of Commerce, criticized the measure in letters sent late last week and this afternoon to the Democratic leaders of the committee. She was critical, for instance, of a provision to ban lead from all toys. […]
She opposed making it easier to bring criminal prosecutions of companies that knowingly sell defective products and also criticized a measure that would make it easier for the commission to publicly disclose reports of faulty products.
White House spokesman Tony Fratto insisted the White House did not coordinated with Nord on her complaints, but nevertheless, the White House “shared many of her concerns.”
Strengthening of Consumer Agency Opposed by Its Boss
By STEPHEN LABATONPublished: October 30, 2007WASHINGTON, Oct. 29 — The top official for consumer product safety has asked Congress in recent days to reject legislation that would strengthen the agency that polices thousands of consumer goods, from toys to tools.
On the eve of an important Senate committee meeting to consider the legislation, Nancy A. Nord, the acting chairman of the Consumer Product Safety Commission, has asked lawmakers in two letters not to approve the bulk of legislation that would increase the agency’s authority, double its budget and sharply increase its dwindling staff.
Ms. Nord opposes provisions that would increase the maximum penalties for safety violations and make it easier for the government to make public reports of faulty products, protect industry whistleblowers and prosecute executives of companies that willfully violate laws.
The measure is an effort to buttress an agency that has been under siege because of a raft of tainted and dangerous products manufactured both domestically and abroad. In the last two months alone, more than 13 million toys have been recalled after tests indicated lead levels of almost 200 times the safety ceiling.
Ms. Nord’s opposition to key elements of the legislation is consistent with the broadly deregulatory approach of the Bush administration. In a variety of areas, from antitrust to trucking and worker safety, officials appointed by President Bush have sought to reduce the role of regulation and government in the marketplace.
Tony Fratto, a White House spokesman, said that Ms. Nord had not coordinated with the administration to kill the legislation. But he said that the White House shared many of her concerns and that Allan Hubbard, President Bush’s top economic adviser at the White House, was preparing to send a letter to Congress “that is probably even more forceful than Ms. Nord’s.”
The Senate Commerce Committee is set to vote on Tuesday on the legislation, which is sponsored by Senator Daniel K. Inouye, the Hawaii Democrat who heads the committee, and Senator Mark Pryor, the Arkansas Democrat who heads the consumer affairs subcommittee.
It would more than double the agency’s budget, to $141 million, over the next seven years, raise staffing levels by about 20 percent, and give the commission broad new powers to police the marketplace. It would raise the cap on the maximum penalties, to $100 million, from $1.8 million.
Ms. Nord, who before joining the agency had been a lawyer at Eastman Kodak and an official at the United States Chamber of Commerce, criticized the measure in letters sent late last week and this afternoon to the Democratic leaders of the committee. She was critical, for instance, of a provision to ban lead from all toys. She said that the proposal to raise the potential penalty to $100 million “may have the undesired consequence of firms, as a precautionary measure, flooding the agency with virtually every consumer complaint and incident.”
She opposed making it easier to bring criminal prosecutions of companies that knowingly sell defective products and also criticized a measure that would make it easier for the commission to publicly disclose reports of faulty products.
While manufacturers had agreed on another provision that would give independent company laboratories the authority to test products and certify their safety, Ms. Nord said she objected to the provision and preferred that the legislation give the commission the authority to defer to the work of the laboratories, should it choose to.
Some of Ms. Nord’s complaints were similar to the ones that business groups and manufacturers have raised, including that the legislation would be unnecessarily burdensome. But in other areas, such as whistleblower protection for company employees, her complaints went beyond those of industry.
While companies generally have not objected to giving protection to whistleblowers in the industries regulated by the commission, for example, she said it would “dramatically drain the limited resources of the commission, to the direct detriment of public safety.”
While Ms. Nord said she supports the committee’s efforts in general, she issued a more modest proposal than the one under consideration in the Senate. It would, among other things, increase the maximum amount of civil penalties to $10 million, create incentives for companies to quickly halt sales of recalled products, and give the government the authority to seize assets of a company found to have violated criminal safety laws.
Senator Pryor said Ms. Nord’s objections to the measure surprised him.
“It’s hard for me to know if it’s just ideological or she is just expressing the wishes of the administration,” Mr. Pryor said. “Either way it comes to the same conclusion and that is that they say they want more resources, but they are very reluctant to accept those resources.”
Consumer advocates also said they were stunned by Ms. Nord’s letter.
“It was remarkable to send a letter like that to a committee, when you’re in dire straits and you need increased funding and you’ve acknowledged that,” said Ellen Bloom, director of federal policy at Consumers Union.
The agency has suffered from a steady decline in its budget and staffing in recent years. Its staff is about 420, about half its size in the 1980s. It has only one fulltime employee to test toys. And 15 inspectors are assigned to police all foreign imports of consumer products under the agency’s supervision, a marketplace that last year was valued at $614 billion.
Through an agency spokesman, Ms. Nord declined to discuss her opposition to the legislation.
Ms. Nord’s letter was challenged by the sole Democrat at the commission, Thomas H. Moore. In a letter last week, Mr. Moore told the lawmakers that he generally supported the legislation for being “strongly pro-consumer.”
Schools key in obesity falls short.
The Wichita Eagle report on Middle schools key in battling obesity fails to cover factors that contribute to our fat culture. It only talked about the importance of Physical Education classes. The news should have been titled something like: PE is key in battling obesity.
It is a shame that such an importunity to create conscience of real solutions was missed. Specially when in recent months the school boards have been under pressure to get rid off unhealthy snacks from vending machines and fattening foods from the cafeteria. Teachers know that most students are not motivated by parents to eat healthy meals at home and many just don’t eat at all and come to schools to supply themselves with high sweet low nutritional value snacks and beverages. That in itself is a recognized damaging fact that at least should have been mentioned.
Additionally, FACS classes have also been reduced and threatened by budget cuts when they could be an agent for the fat culture change. Classes that address health risks, nutritional choices and healthy cooking could effectively create the conscience needed in our student population conducive to changing the culture fat.
I know that there are powerful forces and conflicts that may prevent a city paper to promote certain changes that affect special interests but at least I expected additional solutions to have been mentioned. We owe it to our kids and our future generations.
I heard the head of the CPC say the other day that the agency had 400 employees, and 35 of which worked in the lab and did the testing for all the imports! The news questioner was incredulous, and thought she’d misspoken. I was rather amazed also, no wonder we’re getting so much tainted goods.
On the subject of CEO compensation, how do the defenders of the poor CEO’s, reconcile Morgan Stanley CEO being forced out after delivering the biggest loss in the companies history, and yet will most likely receive hundreds of millions for his dismal performance? A mere mortal would get nothing more than a boot in the ass.
Give Green, Go Yellow: How cash and corporate pressure pushed ethanol to the fore
“We’ve decided to burn the last two inches of Midwestern topsoil in our gas tanks.”
Perhaps the best comment on ethanol boondoggles I ever heard –a quote from a farmer in an article on energybulletin.net
I wonder if sebelius and parkinson are proud of their “leadership” on this issue?
It’s a matter of faith, not fact, for Republic Party members that “government can’t work.”
Then they get elected and prove it.
Cronyism, no-bid contracts to campaign contributors, Enron, MCI, Arthur Andersen, Merril-Lynch, the housing bubble, tainted food from China, lead-painted toys for American kids, the massive national debt, fake news conferences, outted spies, an immoral war, “Mission Accomplished,” the devalued dollar, the devalued Constitution… are all the legacy of George WMD Bush’s presidency.
WH spokesman said today that energy cost has been too high for sometime, but not to worry, the economy is strong enough to withstand the price. Also gave the tired old saw “it’s because of supply and demand”. Only thing shallower than the farmers’ top soil, is bush think.
“ksfarmgrrl” –
The ethanol issue is one case where I really admire John Edwards’ candidacy in Iowa. For decades, ethanol has been the 3rd Rail in corn country. “Everyone” running for the presidency pandered to the issue, and collected campaign money from outfits such as Archer-Daniels-Midland, et al.
Edwards has come forth at told Iowegians that the ethanol gravy train is short-lived. At best, it’s a transition fuel and there’s no long-term future in burning food (and, as you noted, top-soil) in automobiles.
It’s a sin against America’s so-called techological superiority that there aren’t bullet trains crisscrossing North America. Powered by wind, solar, geothermal energy… which we might have expected from 30+ years of research and development started by the Carter administration… and quashed by Reagan.
“lead-painted toys for American kids, Bush.”
That’s really stretching it Monkey. You really need to get a life.
This is priceless. Cheney huning at a gun club flying the confederate flag: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/10/29/2007-10-29_sharpton_chides_cheney_over_confederate_.html
sure looks like it cosmos.
I wonder how many on line identities this guy really has?
Notice how nice it is here without him and his 10,000 nics?
So he’s lurking. I THOUGHT that would draw him out.
Oh, and you want me to use vulgar language. Ok, here goes…
TERRY FOX
That’s the vilest thing I could think to say. Heheheheehh.
‘CO2 in air grows fast: study’http://green.yahoo.com/news/afp/20071022/sc_afp/usscienceclimate.html
About half of the rise is due to our burning more fossil fuel, and half is a DECLINE in the efficiency of natural “sinks” that absorb the CO2.
H/T to DeSmogBlog.com
Great job, Blue Max for breaking the NY Times article, and giving Rhonda a heads up.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/10/open-thread-103.html#comment-88089846
Abortion rates same whether legal or notStudy: Rich, poor countries have equal statistics; half of procedures unsafeMost Popular
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Updated: 12:58 p.m. CT Oct 18, 2007LONDON - Women are just as likely to get an abortion in countries where it is outlawed as they are in countries where it is legal, according to research published Friday.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21255186/?GT1=10533
I didn’t preview before I posted, obviously. But I think it’s worth noting that whether or not abortion is illegal does not effect whether they happen, it just effects whether they are safe for women.
A statistician at Texas A&M University says the study by WHO and Planned Parenthood’s Guttmacher institute, claiming abortion bans don’t affect the number of abortions, is full of gaping holes. Dr. Keith Schumann, a Ph.D. statistician, reviewed the study and says the two groups use weak or non-existent data to support their conclusion that nations should legalize abortions. “There are numerous assumptions made in their methodology that can severely sway the final outcome. In other words, the numbers in the report contain such potentially large margins of error and so many problems with the underlying data that were cobbled together that few, if any, conclusions can accurately be made,” the statistician explained.The data is pulled form multiple sources and, in some cases, the researchers involved make guesses as to the statistics they need to back up their claims. For countries where abortions are illegal, the total number of abortions was estimated, then inflated, and then all of these were considered unsafe. He also pointed to the study’s claim that legal abortions in China and North Korea are “100% percent safe” even though they are forced in many situations.Bottom line: the WHO/Guttmacher study is just another pack of made-up lies from the abortion lobby. We all know that abortion bans drastically decrease the number of abortions, and thereby decrease the number of maternal deaths and deadly complications, such as life-threatening infections and blood loss, that are caused by legal abortions.
“The evidence for the devastation wrought by abortion is everywhere. Thousands of women in our network alone can give full accounts of both the physical and lasting emotional trauma caused by so called ’safe and legal’ abortion. Governor Blunt is doing a great service not only for his state, but for women all over the country.”. . . Georgette Forney, co-founder of the Silent No More Awareness Campaign, on Missouri Gov. Blunt’s new abolition task force- - -
Child killer Danny R. Rouse, of Kansas has pleaded guilty to murder in the stabbing and strangling of 16-year-old waitress Stephanie Wagoner, with whom he worked with at a northern Indiana restaurant last fall, after being paroled from a Kansas prison. Rouse was paroled in March 2006 after serving 26 years in prison in Kansas for the 1979 cut-throat murder of 5-year-old Jason Learst in Wichita, after stabbing his mother 12 times and leaving her for dead.Gov. Bilious Sebelius last year called for a review of state parole board practices.
Got that intelligence test ready for board members yet, or would it interfere with putting shysters for abortionist quacks on the parole board, Mrs. Sebelius?
Parkay–
Abortion accounts for over 50 percent of the precipitous drop in violent crime in the mid-90’s.
All those unwanted poor kids DIDN’T get born and grow up into violent criminals.
Maybe if you could stop forcing your version of “personal morality” down everybody else’s throat and see society as a system, you could do some good in the world.
Of course, seeing system failures instead of individual failings means you have to stop thinking like a CON.
Good luck.
Source for above: Steven D. Levitt, “Freakonomics”
There are no unwanted babies.
Great, parkay.
Then no women are having abortions . . .
Sure, parkay. Why don’t you tell that to the thousands of children in the foster care system whose parents dumped them off and whom nobody wants to adopt?
“Abortion accounts for over 50 percent of the precipitous drop in violent crime in the mid-90’s.
All those unwanted poor kids DIDN’T get born and grow up into violent criminals.”
———–
When I read stuff like this, I feel like I am face to face with evil.
Preemptive capital punishment for the innocent.
Bush is madder than a hatter.Kucinich questions Bush’s mental health 33 minutes ago
PHILADELPHIA - Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich questioned President Bush’s mental health in light of comments he made about a nuclear Iran precipitating World War III.
ADVERTISEMENT”I seriously believe we have to start asking questions about his mental health,” Kucinich, an Ohio congressman, said in an interview with The Philadelphia Inquirer’s editorial board on Tuesday. “There’s something wrong. He does not seem to understand his words have real impact.”
Kucinich, known for his liberal views, trails far behind the leading candidates in most Democratic polls. He was in Philadelphia for a debate at Drexel University.
Bush made the remarks at a news conference earlier this month.
He said: “I’ve told people that if you’re interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them (Iran) from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon.”
Kucinich said he doesn’t believe his comments about the president’s mental health are irresponsible, according to a story posted on the newspaper’s Web site.
“You cannot be a president of the United States who’s wanton in his expression of violence,” Kucinich said. “There’s a lot of people who need care. He might be one of them. If there isn’t something wrong with him, then there’s something wrong with us. This, to me, is a very serious question.”
Dennis is just brave enough to say what we have all known all along.
bush is a few fries short of a happy meal.
Just a few??
Brain damage is a common and potentially severe consequence of long-term, heavy alcohol consumption. bush suffers this consequence.
“I am running for President of the United States to enable the Goddess of Peace to encircle within her arms all the children of this country and all the children of the world.”-Dennis Kucinich
O…K…?
Abortion accounts for over 50 percent of the precipitous drop in violent crime in the mid-90’s.
All those unwanted poor kids DIDN’T get born and grow up into violent criminals.
Maybe if you could stop forcing your version of “personal morality” down everybody else’s throat and see society as a system, you could do some good in the world.
Of course, seeing system failures instead of individual failings means you have to stop thinking like a CON.
Good luck.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 30, 2007 at 03:12 PM
——————————————————————Killing babies yet unborn into poor families to control crime is NOT forcing morality down someone’s throat.
Using Capn’s approach, we should target specific zip codes with high crime rates and encourage even more abortions.
And maybe we could target certain school districts where test scores are very low, and encourage more abortions there too.
And maybe we could target….
“Preemptive capital punishment for the innocent.”
Outlander
I have to say that the presumtion that the drop in crime was a function of abortion is just about the most outrageous thing I have ever read.
Steven D. Levitt’s “Freakonomics” is a pretty sad justification for abortion.
I wonder how many Albert Einstein types have been aborted from doing some good on this Earth?
Maybe we killed off someone who would have been the scientist to perfect Fusion Power giving us a clean abundant source of fuel which would allow man to stop polluting the air.
Maybe we killed off someone who would have been the doctor to find a cure for cancer and/or heart disease, or Aids.
Capn’s killing off babies to stop future crime certainly has resulted in at least a few good ones being killed too, dontcha think?
And it is for US to decide who should and should not be born, no question about that, we just need to make sure we pick the right ones to kill.
When will the Democrat Majority Congress Do Its Job and Pass the Federal Budgets?????
Where’s the beef????? I don’t think there’s anybody back there!
Bush Blasts Democrats for Spending Bill DelaysTuesday , October 30, 2007
President Bush blasted Democrats once more on Tuesday for failing to send him any of required annual spending bills needed to fund the federal government, whose fiscal year began Oct. 1.
Saying Congress must finish important work on behalf of the American people, Bush argued that the pace of appropriations bill votes is the worst for a Congress in 20 years.
“Congress is not getting its work done. We’re near the end of the year, and there really isn’t much to show for it,” Bush said from the White House North Portico, where he was flanked by the top congressional Republicans.
“The House of Representatives has wasted valuable time on a constant stream of investigations, and the Senate has wasted valuable time on an endless series of failed votes to pull our troops out of Iraq,” Bush said.
At the same time, Bush also lambasted Democrats’ efforts to add taxes into a number of bills — including this year’s farm and energy bills, and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program that he has vetoed once and pledged to veto again. .
Democrats “haven’t seen a bill they could not solve without shoving a tax hike into it.
Later, this man was identified as Ted Kennedy, who was taking a free trip to Europe:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,306216,00.html
Sleeping Man Dressed as Zombie Mistaken for Corpse on Train in GermanyTuesday , October 30, 2007
A drunken Halloween reveller in Germany found his costume was a little too realistic when he fell asleep on a train and was mistaken for a corpse.
Fellow passengers thought the man, who was dressed as a gore-covered zombie, had been murdered and called the police.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,306216,00.html
What? Democrats now say there IS a Social Security/Medicare Crisis?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21548024/
Presidential candidates dodge the silver tsunamiBy Andrew Ward in WashingtonFinancial TimesUpdated: 4:42 p.m. CT Oct 30, 2007
When Tod Bowman, an Iowa school teacher, asked Hillary Clinton about the future of the US Social Security system at a campaign event earlier this month, he could not have imagined that his question would still be reverberating three weeks later.
Mrs Clinton refused to say whether she would consider increasing taxes to keep the pension scheme solvent - an evasion that drew sharp criticism from Barack Obama, her rival for the Democratic presidential nomination.
“A candidate for president owes it to the American people to tell us where they stand,” Mr Obama said on Saturday. “Because you’re not ready to lead if you can’t tell us where you’re going.”
LOOMING FINANCIAL CRISIS
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21548024/
….presidential candidates are being forced to confront one of the thorniest issues in US politics: how to solve the looming financial crisis facing the country’s entitlement programmes.
Both Social Security and Medicare, the government healthcare scheme for the elderly, are heading for shortfalls as the post-second world war baby boom generation approaches retirement.
“A half-century ago there were 16 American workers who supported every retiree, today it is three, and soon it will be two,” said John McCain, the presidential Republican hopeful. “Around 2020 you will have more money going out than you have coming in.”
Nearly 80m people born between 1946 and 1964 are expected to become eligible for Social Security benefits over the next 20 years.
All of the main presidential candidates acknowledge that something must be done to prepare for the “silver tsunami”. But they have been hesitant about offering detailed plans to solve the problem. The issue is politically sensitive because the potential remedies, including higher taxes, benefit cuts and an increased retirement age, are deeply unattractive to voters. A report by former senators Warren Rudman, a Republican, and Bob Kerrey, a Democrat, found that maintaining pension and healthcare benefits at current levels would require taxes to increase by between a third and a half by 2030.
Hmmmmmm, so now Democrats say:
1. We must fix Social Security and Medicare.
2. We will be in Iraq until at least 2013.
Democrats are sounding more like George Bush EVERYDAY!
Next Surprise: Democrats REJECT the next Kyoto-type Global Warming treaty. Why? Too costly for America, AND no certainty that MAN can stop Global Warming.
We’re spending 43.5 bil. on spying, and our intelligence is so lacking.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fdUdkFMFrkQ
HILLARY UNCENSORED!
Bush wasn’t pissing and moaning last oct. was he?
Hey, Max–
How’s the air quality there in Des Moines?
Yeah, you don’t need no steenkin’ big governement regulations.
Give me the beautiful smell of free-enterprise, eh, Max?
Hope you don’t have kids that are breathing in all that neuro-toxins . . . but, wait, that’s how you get more RepubliCONs, isn’t it?
Brain damage.
“Abortion accounts for over 50 percent of the precipitous drop in violent crime in the mid-90’s.
“All those unwanted poor kids DIDN’T get born and grow up into violent criminals.”
———–
When I read stuff like this, I feel like I am face to face with evil.
Preemptive capital punishment for the innocent.
Posted by: outlander
Read the original chapter in the book _Freakonomics_. They ruled out many other sources of variance. It was the kind of science result that made everybody unhappy. The truth does that sometimes.
“A half-century ago there were 16 American workers who supported every retiree, today it is three, and soon it will be two,” said John McCain, the presidential Republican hopeful.
Actually, John, a half century ago, there was 45 workers for every retiree. When it went from 45 to 3, it must have BANKRUPTED the system, right?
Uh, no.
It’s an irrelevancy. What matters is how much is coming in and how much is going out.
The baby-boom are healthier than any previous generation. Who said anything about retiring?
I plan to work until I drop.
I wonder how many Albert Einstein types have been aborted from doing some good on this Earth?
Maybe we killed off someone who would have been the scientist to perfect Fusion Power giving us a clean abundant source of fuel which would allow man to stop polluting the air.
*****
Because that’s what you find so often among unwanted babies born to crack whores: the next Einstein.
Einstein was nurtured. Hitler, the orphan, was neglected.
I think even you can figure that one out, Max.
“Congress is not getting its work done. We’re near the end of the year, and there really isn’t much to show for it,” Bush said
REALLY?!
Well, hell, it couldn’t be the routine threatening of filibuster by Repukes, could it?
Remember when the Repukes wanted to change the Senate rules to make filibustering impossible?
Good thing they made the Capital dome out of steel. Otherwise, it would have fallen years ago . . .
Max:Annnddddd yourrrrrr poinnnnnt is….?
“The baby-boom are healthier than any previous generation. Who said anything about retiring?
“I plan to work until I drop.”
According to Mark J. Penn, the Clinton Karl Rove, this trend will be followed by many baby boomers and will be one reason why social security will not be threatened by the boomers.
http://www.microtrending.com/
Correct; and another impact will be that the so-called coming shortage of workers will not materialize as they are claiming. On the other hand it will have impacts in the workplace. For example, ergonomics will become more important. Also, workplace health programs and health insurance (integrate with Medicare) will be issues. Smart companies will get ahead of the curve on these issues.
incred, you are missing the point. Here we have someone touting the wonderful effect killing babies has on the crime rate, as a pro-abortion argument. It is like arguing in favor of the Holocaust because dead Jews don’t use much energy, eat food others can use, and they don’t pollute.
It is evil.
GAO: Reduction In Violence Due To
‘Ethnically Cleansed Neighborhoods’ In Iraq
Looking for signs of progress in Iraq, the Bush administration has been quick to jump on reports of reduced violence in Iraq. The “violence is thankfully coming down,” said White House spokesperson Dana Perino. Violence is “down significantly from last year,” declared President Bush.
In a hearing before the House Appropriations Committee today, Joe Christoff of the Government Accountability Office stated that this recent reduction in violence should be taken with a grain of salt, as it coincides with increased sectarian cleansing and a massive refugee displacement:
I think that’s [ethnic cleansing] an important consideration in even assessing the overall security situation in Iraq. You know, we look at the attack data going down, but it’s not taking into consideration that there might be fewer attacks because you have ethnically cleansed neighborhoods, particularly in the Baghdad area. […]
It’s produced 2.2. million refugees that have left, it’s produced two million internally displaced persons within the countryas well.
Christoff’s conclusions echo that of ret. Gen. James Jones last month, who observed “progress” in a Shi’a-led ethnic cleansing campaign.
Also in attendance at the hearing was Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR) Stuart Bowen. In his quarterly report to Congress released today, Bowen acknowledged the reduction in violence but stated that it has not been accompanied by tangible political reconciliation, a finding that was neglected by the traditional media in its reporting today. In Baghdad, for example, Provincial Reconstruction Team officials note:
Despite reduced violence, officials are pessimistic that lasting reconciliation is occurring. … In Diyala, there is a desire to work toward reconciliation, but it will take years to overcome ill-will between tribes.
After watching the house this morning and seeing just what “hard issues” they passed meaningless after meaningless decrees of support and recognition. Yet little else today, yes in the end they are doing nothing!
So he’s lurking. I THOUGHT that would draw him out.
Oh, and you want me to use vulgar language. Ok, here goes…
TERRY FOX
That’s the vilest thing I could think to say. Heheheheehh.
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | October 30, 2007 at 12:50 PM
———————————I have been outside most of the day enjoying the weather and doing some much needed yard work.
I was going through today’s posts when this one by Ksfarmgrrl came up.
I just had to stop and let you know that I laughed so hard after reading your post I almost have to go change my boxers. Thanks
Hmmmmmm, so now Democrats say:
1. We must fix Social Security and Medicare.
Democrats are sounding more like George Bush EVERYDAY!
Posted by: Max | October 30, 2007 at 05:16 PM
Sorry to disappoint Max but the Democrats aren’t “sounding more like George”. Bush wants to privatize SS.
Parkay-”The data is pulled form multiple sources and, in some cases, the researchers involved make guesses as to the statistics they need to back up their claims. For countries where abortions are illegal, the total number of abortions was”
1. Data pulled from multiple sources is usually the MOST accurate. 2. In countries where abortion is illegal, how exactly do you count abortions when they don’t report it? They go by deaths and complications. Obviously they’re all going to be risky, duh. What kind of bullcrap are you posting now? Did you get one of your fundy friends to write something up so you could try to dispute it?
“We all know that abortion bans drastically decrease the number of abortions, and thereby decrease the number of maternal deaths and deadly complications, such as life-threatening infections and blood loss, that are caused by legal abortions.”
No, you want to pretend that, but the truth is that infection rates in hospitals dropped significantly after abortions were made legal. That was a MEASURABLE response. Deaths of women were estimated to be great. LEGAL abortions SAVE women’s lives. Even Mary agrees.
Max who gets to decide who gets to be born? A: The woman whose body it has to reside in.
Kitrell–
Stephen Levitt concluded through rigorous statistical analysis that more prisons, tougher sentencing, and more police were responsible for somewhat less than half the drop in crime.
Remember too, small gov’t believer, that every prison costs 25-35,000 taxpayer dollars a year.
correction–every prisoner costs 25-35,000 taxpayer dollars a year
bush DID throw quite the little snit about Congress today didn’t he?
He’s right of course. Congress is NOT following the will of the American people.
America wants bush and cheney impeached, tried and put in a federal prison.
Speaker Pelosi?
So let it be written.
So let it be done.
THIS JUST IN
TONIGHT THE MULVANE HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL CONTINUED IT’S PERFECT 9-0 SEASON WITH A DECISIVE VICTORY OVER A RELENTLESS ROSE HILL TEAM. THEY ADVANCE TO THE NEXT ROUND IN THEIR QUEST TO A STATE CHAMPIONSHIP
IS IT JUST ME !
WATCHED A LITTLE OF THE DEBATE TONIGHT —I NOTICED THAT HILLARY’S EYEBROWS NEVER MOVE AND IF YOU LOOK IN HER EYES IT LOOKS LIKE A BLANK VAPID STARE ….
I missed the debate. I’ll have to catch it in rerun.
listen up people !!
House Bill 1804 was passed by overwhelming majorities in both the House and Senate of the Oklahoma Legislature. The measure’s sponsor, State Representative Randy Terrill, says the bill has four main topical areas: it deals with identity theft; it terminates public assistance benefits to illegals; it empowers state and local police to enforce federal immigration laws; and it punishes employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens.
Oklahoma is no longer “O.K.” for illegal aliens, Terrill observes. “When you put everything together in context,” he contends, “the bottom line is illegal aliens will not come here if there are no jobs waiting for them, they will not stay here if there is no government subsidy, and they certainly won’t stay here if they know that if they ever encounter our state and local law enforcement officers, they will be physically detained until they’re deported. And that’s exactly what House Bill 1804 does.”
The Oklahoma legislator is pleased the bill he sponsored into law was signed by Governor Henry and believes it will go a long way to curb the illegal immigration problem in the state. “I would remind people that states are separate sovereigns in our federal system,” Terrill points out. “Anyone who doesn’t understand that needs to go back and take an American federal government class in college,” he says.
As a result of that sovereignty, the Oklahoma lawmaker insists, “we have as much right — in fact, I would argue, a responsibility — to protect our taxpayers against that sort of egregious waste, fraud and abuse as the federal government should have a responsibility to protect that international border, but doesn’t do that.”
Terrill says as long as the federal government refuses to do its job of protecting the international borders of the United States, states like Oklahoma must take action to deal with the problem that is costing taxpayers in the state $200 million a year in public benefits, law enforcement costs, and other resources.
Hi folks. I’m new and decided to jump in here with both feet since this is a subject that I feel very strongly about.
In May of 2006, the congressional Budget Office estimated that the 14 mile San Diego border fence would cost $3 million per mile to construct. (The Corps of Engineers estimated $1.3 million per mile)$3 million x 1952 miles of border = $5,856,000,000
The Corps of Engineers estimated that such a fence would cost from $1,742 to $17,753 per mile per year to maintain, depending on how much damage it sustained. If the fence were built and sustained an average amount of damage in the next 5 years, the cost for maintenance would be $45,644,000.
$5,856,000,000 construction cost$ 45,644,000 maintenance$5,901,644,000 total cost for the border fence
A recent cost assessment by the Center for American Progress for deporting 8 million illegal immigrants in this country put the cost at between $206 billion and $230 billion dollars over 5 years. (10 million - 20% self-deportation rate)
$230,000,000,000 - deportation+ $ 5,901,644,000 - fence construction and maintenance$235,901,644,000 - total
In the report “The Fiscal Cost of Low Skill Immigrants to the American Taxpayer”, Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation estimates that there were 10 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. in 2004 and 4.5 million households headed by a LSI (low skill immigrant - one without a high school diploma).
Testifying before the House Judiciary Committee, Mr. Rector estimated that in 2004 the average LSI household generated a fiscal deficit of $19,588, resulting in a total of $89.1 billion.
Estimates of the number of illegal aliens who enter the U.S. each year vary widely, from 700,000 to well over one million. Half of those will not have a high school diploma and will create approximately 157,500 new LSI households per year. (700,000 divided by 2 = 350,000 x 45% = 157,500)
The addition of 157,500 new LSI households with an average fiscal deficit of $19,588 results in $3,085,110 of additional deficit each year. If that trend continues, the total cost for the next 5 years will be $660,408,630,000.
$660,408,630,000 projected expense for illegal alien households-$235,901,644,000 for fence construction and deportation$425,506,985,944 savings for the American taxpayer over the next 5 years if the fence is built and illegal aliens are deported.
The estimates I’ve seen for Border Fence construction do not include land acquisition and the San Diego fence extends 150 feet north of the international border.
In 1907 President Roosevelt reserved all public lands within 60 feet of the border with Mexico within the state of California and the territories of Arizona and New Mexico. This excluded any land legally owned at the time. However, much of the needed land could be acquired by eminent domain if necessary.
According to the Congressional Research Service report “Border Security: Barriers Along the U.S. International Border”, one problem area is the Tohono O’odham reservation in Arizona. The tribe reportedly vowed to fight the construction of the border fence. Since this is one of the most heavily trafficked areas in the country, I would give the tribe an ultimatum. Either the fence is built along the border with reasonable compensation, or it is built around the reservation. If they change their mind at any time during, or after construction, they would have to pay for whatever amount of the fence has been built.
One argument that I’ve heard in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens is that, without their cheap labor, the prices of many things will go up. However, IF those currently employing illegal aliens follow the law in the new immigration reform bill, those same workers will suddenly be “on the books’ and will have to be paid at least the minimum wage and consumer prices will go up anyway!!
Another argument against the Border Fence is the possible environment impact.We KNOW that drug smugglers and illegal immigrant traffic have been severely damaging the environment for years!
In 2002 illegal immigrants were suspected of starting 8 major wildfires in Arizona. Those fires burned over 100 square miles and cost taxpayers over $5 million to fight.
Fred Patton, chief ranger at the Organ Pipe Nation Monument, said in 2004 “We’ve now got 300 miles of illegal roads those people have cut through the desert and thousands of miles of illegal trails they’ve created. We collect over 30 vehicles a year and we measure the trash they leave behind, everything from cans and bottles to clothes, by the ton. And they’ve fouled the few water sources to the point they are too filthy now even for the animals to drink.”
If 500,00 people cross the border each year and leave behind the average of 8 pounds of trash each that is a total of 2,000 tons of trash each year!!
While the Border Fence may interfere with the migration of a few endangered species, their fate is surely sealed if the Fence is not built!
“I missed the debate. I’ll have to catch it in rerun.”
Posted by: J R
J R,
Go to msnbc.com - they should have a repeat.
Not much to see there, though. Obama and Edwards tried to go after Hilliary without much luck.
If there is ever going to be a super bug pandemic it will come from Mexico. They sell their antibiodics perscription free at gas stations, and grocery stores.
Independence Day, a new movie coming out soon in a theater near you.
America is invaded by aliens, that wish to use up all our resources then migrate to Canada.
jk
I think our prison population should be forced to do productive work. More chain gangs, and things of that sort. If we have to pay for their time in prison through taxes, they should be doing somthing to improve our country.
Well maybe if Americans didn’t have to go to Mexico to get their antibiotics…
Editors?
Please compare the IP of the 11:18, 11:39, and this post under the nic J R.
I want all the proselytizing fundies to realize something that just happened behind the scenes.
I had a question about a specific religion, and that religion just happened to be where Chas ministers.
I felt so completely open and comfortable knowing Chas wasn’t going to judge me or belittle me, that I asked him and he educated me a little.
As a nonbeliever, I would feel totally comfortable going to Chas’s church to find out more. Now THAT Is how you get converts. Are you understanding how this works?
Black Hawk, you see the debate? Hillary is BOTH For and Against the Iraq war At The Same Time!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,306531,00.html
“If you believe that combat missions should be continued in Iraq” without a timetable for withdrawal, Edwards said, “then Senator Clinton is your candidate.” Edwards vowed to have all combat troops out of Iraq “in my first year in office.”
Clinton replied forcefully, saying “I stand for ending the war in Iraq, bringing our troops home.” She added, however, that “it is going to take time,” and some troops must remain to fight Al Qaeda in Iraq.
“I don’t know how you pursue Al Qaeda without engaging them in combat,” she said.
More Hillary Double Talk (otherwise known as Lying or sometimes Flip Flopping, or Pandering, or saying whatever sounds good, or saying what someone wants to hear…)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21548813/page/2/
Brian Williams, managing editor and anchor of “NBC Nightly News,” asked whether anyone believed illegal immigrants should not have driver’s licenses.
In a convoluted answer to the same question, Clinton first said she thought New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s plan to let illegal immigrants have driver’s licenses “makes a lot of sense.” Then she said she did not endorse Spitzer’s plan even though she repeated that he had the right idea. Then she accused Russert of asking a “gotcha” question.
Edwards leaped, noting that Clinton appeared to have given two different answers in less than two minutes.
Edwards leaped, noting that Clinton appeared to have given two different answers in less than two minutes.
“I think this is a real issue for the country,” he said. “I mean, America is looking for a president who will say the same thing, who will be consistent, who will be straight with them.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21548813/page/2/
What Direction Will Hillary Go? Wherever the Wind Blows!
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/31/us/politics/31debate.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Senator Barack Obama of Illinois proclaimed in an interview over the weekend that “now is the time” to begin drawing tough distinctions with Mrs. Clinton.
He did so almost immediately, accusing Mrs. Clinton of “changing positions whenever it’s politically convenient,” pointing to the North American Free Trade Agreement, torture and the war on Iraq. “Now, that may be politically savvy, but I don’t think that it offers the clear contrast that we need,” Mr. Obama said. “I think what we need right now is honestly with the American people about where we would take the country.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/31/us/politics/31debate.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Senator Edwards:
He added, “I think the American people, given this historic moment in our country’s history, deserve a president of the United States that they know will tell them the truth, and won’t say one thing one time and something different at a different time.”
Very Decisive, Isn’t She?
How Will Hillary Respond to Military Attacks from terrorists or other countries on the US, When She Struggles with Verbal Attacks from 2 Guys in a Debate?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/31/us/politics/31debate.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Mrs. Clinton smiled far less frequently than she had in earlier debates, often looking grim as she turned her head from Mr. Edwards to her right to Mr. Obama on her left. “I need to rebut that,” she said at one point. “I don’t know where to start.”
Secret? Hillary Clinton Records
In an exchange with Mr. Russert, arguably her third toughest opponent on the stage, Mrs. Clinton repeatedly declined to say whether she would push the National Archives to release correspondence from Mrs. Clinton to Mr. Clinton in the White House when he was president. Mr. Russert held up a copy of a letter from Mr. Clinton asking the Archives not to release any of those documents until 2012.
“Well, that’s not my decision to make,” she said. “And I don’t believe that any president or first lady has. But certainly we’ll move as quickly as our circumstances and the processes of the National Archives permits.”
Mr. Obama raised his hand, asking for a response. “We have just gone through one of the most secretive administrations in our history, and not releasing, I think, these records at the same time, Hillary, as you’re making the claim that this is the basis for your experience, I think, is a problem,” he said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/31/us/politics/31debate.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp
Newsweek’s investigative bulldog, Michael Isikoff, seems frustrated that Clinton won’t release any papers and notes how hard of a time some reporters have searching the Clinton archives at the Clinton presidential library.
“Nearly three years after the Clinton Library opened—and more than 21 months after its trove of records became subject to the Freedom of Information Act—barely one half of 1 percent of the 78 million pages of documents and 20 million e-mail messages at the federally funded facility are public, according to the National Archives.
The lack of access is emerging as an issue in Hillary’s presidential campaign: she cites her years of experience as First Lady as one of her prime qualifications to be president. Like other Democratic candidates, she has decried the ’stunning record of secrecy’ of the Bush administration; her campaign Web site vows to bring a ‘return to transparency’ to government. But Clinton’s appointment calendar as First Lady, her notes at strategy meetings, what advice she gave her husband and his advisers, what policy memos she wrote, even some key papers from her health-care task force—all of this, and much more documenting her years as First Lady, remains locked away, most likely through the entire campaign season.”
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/22/423523.aspx
Papers? I Don’t See Any Papers.He says he’s ‘pro-disclosure,’ but Bill has kept Hillary’s White House files under wraps.
Nearly three years after the Clinton Library opened—and more than 21 months after its trove of records became subject to the Freedom of Information Act—barely one half of 1 percent of the 78 million pages of documents and 20 million e-mail messages at the federally funded facility are public, according to the National Archives.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/57351
Geez, Wow, Max!! You just a little bit obcessed with Hillary???
I mean, werent there more candidates there than Hillary, Obama, and Edwards?? The only three you can talk about are these??? Just like the Right Wing Talk Radio people.. Ignore all of the others, and center on these three!! These are the ones you are worried about???
Wow, I would hate to be so obsessed with Hillary like you are Max… Get over it!! Its only politics!! ummm for now!!
Max hates Hillary?
I’m shocked, SHOCKED I say.
heheheheh. Newsflash. The sun came up in the east this morning and max hates Hillary…
Oh. And max hates social security and HILLARY’S position on it.
Who says she’s just a one issue poster?
hehehheheheheeheh……..
Oh and outie?
“I am running for President of the United States to enable the Goddess of Peace to encircle within her arms all the children of this country and all the children of the world.”-Dennis Kucinich”
Gosh, is that really so bad?
You would rather have bush, who proudly declared “I WANT TO BE THE WAR PRESIDENT”?
Ok, we’ll put you down as a “no” on that “prince of peace” business.
I mean, werent there more candidates there than Hillary, Obama, and Edwards?? The only three you can talk about are these??? Just like the Right Wing Talk Radio people.. Ignore all of the others, and center on these three!! These are the ones you are worried about???
Posted by: Chas. | October 31, 2007 at 04:19 AM
Sugarrr you surely know that there are only three candidates. The others are stage candy for the libs. Max is astute enough to recognize that - but not you.