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Open thread 10/01
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Oct. 1, 2007 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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236 Comments
Please add your environmental comments to the thread two below, “Sebelius feeling heat from both sides on coal plant.”
Note to Rhonda: We should have an environment thread every couple days.
Heeeeee! Hat tip to Rage, who shares a birthday with Tom Tommorow.
I think this captures the nightly open threads here just perfectly!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×1947978
Good posts on that thread Wink. I’m glad you are on our side!
You will notice a change in my intensity, I learned just yesterday that my youngest son lied to his mother and did not tell me why he and his new bride of one day went going to KC. I learned he was going for the physical to enlist in the Army! Right now I am totally torn, normally I would be very supportive of any of my children’s decision to join any branch of the military peace time or even in the case of the likes of a world war two. But not this! I feel ashamed I have been biting my tongue and so many other peoples children have been going to Iraq in YES BUSH’S WAR! I fully hold in honor all our serve personnel, they fight and sometimes die for their country. There is no greater sacrifice they can give, but this is not in the service of the United States and we need to call a spade a spade.
Our country is facing the greatest challenge to this nation, far more damning that any other since our revolution. The Neo-Conservative and to name them rightly they should be recognized for who they really are Socialists have taken over the key positions of the government and stacked the deck. From vice president down and those not holding an office are called special advisors. Cheney and the rest are all members of the Neo-con think tank Project for a new American century. If you were to look at the list of members you will see many of the name there that are also listed in the Administration. To our damnation this is all old news and yet many are just ignoring the facts that are plain and in front of their face.We just can not bring ourselves to accept the reality and those that have their suspicions are holding their breath and tongues hoping that there are others who can stop them. I for one have been thinking surely someone in Washington is just quietly working to keep them from leading us in to the ruination of this country. But last week’s vote to declare the Revolutionary guard as a terrorist organization, which will let Bush use a authorization he already had to fight those deemed a terrorist organization. Opens the way to taking the next step in the plan. But this one will have far greater impact then the invasion did, other countries have had the reasoning to stay out of our way solely as to not give a reason to be attacked.But with two countries being attack without having attacked us. There is not reason to stay out, such is the outcome of a nation taking the arrogant stance that they have the right of preemptive strike.
As I said I am feeling ashamed for not being more vocal and dogging others to sound the alarm. So many of our troops have died in this and need not to, I am a proud American and perhaps too proud, it may be my turn to throw a child on the alter of Bush’s war. I wish I have been a better council, sat him down and told him whether he wanted to hear or not. To those who have already lost a family member in this I can not say I am so sorry enough. But if the cost of saving my country is the lost of my child I will have to pay it. AND MAY THERE BE SEVEN LEVELS OF HELL THESE BASTARDS FACE WHOM CAUSED THIS!
Go writerdog!!!!!
I am so sorry that this is happening to you Dog. You know kids think they are invincible. But like the other anti BUSH”S war you’ll be shot at (figuratively of course) by the ones who have no stake or refuse to see this war for what it is.
ut last week’s vote to declare the Revolutionary guard as a terrorist organization, which will let Bush use a authorization he already had to fight those deemed a terrorist organization. Opens the way to taking the next step in the plan.Posted by: writerdog | October 01, 2007 at 09:29 AM
Perhaps writerdog, but it also opens up more assets for President Bush to utilize in fighting terrorism. Like, the employment of CIA to track Iranian “terrorists” who may be up to no good in the U.S. Or would you rather wait until something happens?
Do you approve of Iran using operatives to help smuggle, train and deploy terrorists in Iraq to help kill our servicemen?
About your son…I assume he is considered an adult being as he is married? Maybe one of the most important decisions in his life as an independent adult. Should he have full support of his father or not? I know my decision to enter a military career wasn’t popular with my parents when I did it (right after the Vietnam era.)
I have not regretted my decision as one can get five years of reality squeezed into one year of active duty real quick. The military lifestyle can be very comfortable or it can be a living hell in times of war. I believe for most it builds character, a sense of duty and gives one a basis to appreciate their country.
I do hope you and your son find common ground, I know you will.
I am deeply sorry writerdog.
I will take heart though in your spirit. I hope others do to and speed an end to this awful abuse of our brave if misused young people.
http://www.wichitaeagle.com/news/story/189115.html#recent_comm
This happened to my mother, she was barred from an entire clinic in Salina, the biggest one, because of a malpractice suit.
May God be with your son writerdog. You obviously raised him to make his own decisions. By enlisting, he has shown that he is brave and that he is his own man.
I often think of how I will feel when my own, now 11 year old son, is of military age. I will likely be torn as you are. Would any war seem worth it? I know that those thoughts make me skeptical of our country getting involved in further substantial military conflicts.
I hope and pray that the efforts of the brave, such as your son, bear fruit and that peace prevails.
Because this world really needs a peace break.
writerdog,
Hugs to you and yours. Keep the faith. Miracals do happen, and maybe what we expect to happen regarding Iraq/Iran won’t.
I’ll keep your son and all of you in my thoughts and prayers.
“Because this world really needs a peace break.”
Amen, outlander. Amen.
PMom, I can understand that. If you sue someone or a private enterprise, such as the Wichita Clinic, then I wouldn’t expect them to have open arms. Their insurance attorneys probably told them it wasn’t a good idea to keep these patients as clients, it may have been a decision based on legal opinion more than medical. Evidently, the Wichita Clinic continued to treat the family for two more years though.
If the Medical Facility screws up and causes harm, then they should expect to be sued.
However, the reality of the litigant’s world is controlled by insurance and attorney’s who will not continue to provide malpractice insurance if they are doing things that put their solvency at higher risk.
They could continue to provide for the patients that sued them, but then their insurance costs would sky rocket and guess who would end up paying those passed on costs?
One thing I just don’t understand about the lawsuit though, there had to be more to it. A punctured artery is a risk with most any surgery I’d think- it’s not an uncommon complication…so unless this doctor was incredibly negligent, I don’t know how the patient could have even gotten it into court.
No one support malpractice liability limits? Limits on attorney fees?
The result is what Pmom describes.
Of the $140,000 awarded in the lawsuit, it would be interesting to see the breakdown in terms of:
Actual damages (permanent physical damage?)Punitive damagesPain and sufferringLoss of wages (6 months)Attorney’s fees and costs
As far as the clinic refusing to see the patient after she filed a lawsuit, why is that a surprise?
Is a doctor or groups of doctors (The clinic of doctors and the individual doctors involved were all listed as defendents, I bet)who is being sued by someone required to continue to treat that patient? How much did their malpractice premiums increase after the lawsuit?
If the doctors are so bad, why would the patient want to continue to go there?
What was the reason for the surgery?
This picture would be more clear if all the facts were presented.
writerdog,
Ouch. Really sorry to hear about the conflict you are in, and that your son appears poised to make himself available for Bush’s war for Iraqi oil.
My own son was gung-ho to join the Marines for a long, long time. I never said a word to dampen his enthusiasm, although I was unsparing in my criticism of the Bush/Cheney Junta. Ultimately he decided on his own to follow a different career path, to my relief.
So, writerdog, I wish you, your wife, and your son and daughter-in-law all the best. Pray for peace.
http://www.kansas.com/news/nation_world/story/188384.html
For those who might hav missed it yesterday.
More proof that Bush hates our troops!
Troops get boot, not care
http://www.kansas.com/news/nation_world/story/188384.html
Darwin has been busy:
Garden City man dies while fleeing from law enforcementThe Associated Press
GARDEN CITY, Kan. – A teenage driver fleeing from authorities died when he crashed his car into a concrete retaining wall, authorities said.
http://www.kansas.com/news/updates/story/189384.html
I learned just yesterday that my youngest son lied to his mother and did not tell me why he and his new bride of one day went going to KC.
Posted by: writerdog
First it is high time you stop treating your adult son like a child. Why should you wife be asking him where he is going at any time? Stop it.
Secondly, your son does not trust you enough to confide in you the most serious aspects of his life.You need to take a check up from the neck up and ask yourself why this is. He knows you feel so strongly against the war, and is AFRAID you will not respect HIS decision (and opinion). If you are honest, just reading your post, I would have a hard time confronting you directly if I were a young man.
Thirdly, you need to realize how strongly your son felt about this decision and keeping it from you. So much so – he has his bride lying to you already. Not a very good way to start off as a new father-in-law. Again, the change is on your end – not theirs.
Lastly, I am proud of your son for standing up for what he felt is right – despite the pain he knows it will cause you and your wife. Now I only hope you can learn to live with HIS decision and show some RESPECT for him to see. I will add your son and family to our prayer list. On the mantel with my son’s bootcamp picture, and surrounded by pictures of him with his infantry buddies. In the back, is my old photo from the mid 70’s.
Please apologize to your son soonest. His new bride will need all the support and love she can get. Shortly, she will be joining the ranks of women and mothers around the country who have loved ones in combat. You need to foster a loving and TRUSTING relationship with her. And give them both room to grow and make mistakes. And respect them as you would they respect you.
Smile dad, it’s what your son needs.
“He did what he felt was right.”
OR he just couldn’t find a job in George W. Bush’s economy.
I haven’t seen the stats, but I think half of the enlisted folks in the military signed up so they could go to college someday.
Writerdog:
At this point, one’s position on Iraq, Iran, or anything else matters not one whit. War always boils down to young men fighting, not for national interest or geopolitical objective, but for their buddies and comrades with whom they share their daily lives. It has always been so.
My own son has done a tour in the sandbox, and thankfully, is back safely. While he certainly did not want to go, and I did not want him to go, he’s a better person for having gone. That’s not justification or rationalization, in his case, it’s just a fact. The military, for the most part, turns out remarkable young men and women, and any harm to any of them is a loss, not just to their loved ones, but to all of us.
We all pray for your son’s safety and his return back to those who love him.
http://www.kansas.com/news/nation_world/story/188384.html
For those who might hav missed it yesterday.
Posted by: Ben | October 01, 2007 at 11:23 AM
Hey Ben, I read that story and have some questions about how the statistics break down.
How long of period were the 22,000 military personnel discharged?
How many of of those discharged haven’t served in a combat zone?
How many of those filed an appeal if they disagree with the diagnosis? I hope the military members know they can file for a second opinion, I’ve done it.
Lastly, from being in the military, I have read reports of people going stark raving mad from domestic problems, getting in trouble with their job, civil problems and financial problems.
Do you know what the most frequent reason for discharge reason was? It was for financial and domestic problems. Nothing to do with their jobs.
I know the incident of post traumatic stress disorder must be way up with so many in Iraq and Afghanistan, but 22,000?
Something is suspicious about that statistic and someone is not revealing the whole truth when they categorize all discharges into one lump stat.
I have a relative who is being treated for PTSD because of an IED after three tours in Iraq. I would say his complaint is legitimate.
As a scientist Ben, I would think you would want to see all the facts, before making a determination. Am I not correct about this assessment?
Writerdog,
Sometimes you just have to grin and bear it. Give him a big hug and tell him you disagree with him, wish he felt he could have talked to you about it, but that you are proud of him. Tell him you will support his new wife any way you can while he is gone.
You and your Mrs. can support your son and his decision – and still work on ending this damn war. But I would not pester him about your efforts or beliefs. Obviously, he wants to find out on his own.
Sometimes you just have to grin and bear it. He needs you now more than ever, but he will never admit it.
I am sorry to hear your son joined the army. He should have joined the Marines.
Sorry about your son, Writerdog…. Just pray for his safe return to you, his wife, and your entire family… Blessings!
An interesting take on where we are, what might have been, and what might be:
Would it really have mattered that much had Gore been elected? Can we really predict with any certainty what any candidate will do if elected?http://pajamasmedia.com/2007/10/gore_in_iraq.php
That ought to keep the pot stirring. Of course, it don’t take much. . . . .
Ksfarmgrrl: As you said in the above “open thread,” presumably to me and others who are talking about the pressing Kansas environmental issues, from the immortal movie, Casablanca … “welcome to the fight.” Thank you.
I do consider myself a moderate Republican. But right is right and wrong is wrong. Its not what some people think, “where’s the money?”
If you project a bit, the world might face future WATER battles that make the current oil battles seem tame in comparison.
Oops Ben, I reread the story and found the answer to one of my questions.
How long of period were the 22,000 military personnel discharged?
Defense Department records show that 22,500 cases of personality-disorder discharges have been processed in the past six years.
Of course, the statistic would included dated going back to at least 2001, which would be before the Iraq war. Being as the Iraq War started on March 20, 2003 and the war in Afghanistan on October 7, 2001, I think they need to cull their statistics a bit so they can make an orderly assessment.
As in, those who never served in Iraq, but served in Afghanistan or vice versa.
Or those who neither served in either battle zone.
Here is one we need to keep our eyes on at the State:
Do we need a “State Guard”?An interim committee is considering whether to set up a volunteer State Guard that could be called to active duty during emergencies.
State Sen. Dennis Pyle, R-Hiawatha, proposed the measure. But while State Guard representatives from several states extolled the virtues of militias to lawmakers this week, the Kansas National Guard said it can manage without one. “The Kansas National Guard has sufficient manpower to meet the state’s foreseeable needs for defense and disaster relief,” said Col. Bruce Woolpert, legal adviser to Tod Bunting, adjutant general of the Kansas National Guard and the state’s director of Homeland Security. Still, the issue may be in play when lawmakers convene the legislative session in January.Sen. Jay Emler, R-Lindsborg, and vice chairman of the House-Senate Kansas Security Committee, said possibly a scaled-down version of Pyle’s proposal could gain approval. “Some of the aspects of that were very positive,” Emler said, noting the recent rash of natural disasters in the state, such as the May tornado that leveled Greensburg in southwest Kansas. “Having a civilian corps out there who could be deployed to a Greensburg or a flood area would be good,”he said.Pyle’s proposal would establish a Kansas State Guard, consisting of Kansans at least 18 years of age who volunteer for duty. Members would serve without compensation unless they are called to active duty by the governor. Active duty compensation would be set by state rules and regulations. Paul LaValle, a colonel in the Texas State Guard, testified that the State Guard in Texas has served in numerous capacities, from crowd control to flooding rescue operations. In 2005, Texas State Guard personnel were deployed to Louisiana to help in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. LaValle argued that the need of a State Guard has increased with the deployment of National Guard troops overseas. “If you allow the citizens of Kansas the opportunity to serve their state, you will be greatly impressed with the high caliber of the individuals that want to do something meaningful for their neighbors and their country,” LaValle said.However, Col. Woolpert said the cost of establishing a State Guard is excessive and not practical. The start-up cost would be $3.5 million to cover training in law enforcement practices and procedures, food, arms and equipment, physical exams for volunteers, vehicle fuel and other expenses, according to the state budget office. And that doesn’t include the cost of providing heavy equipment, such as dozers, graders, dump trucks and generators. And he testified that, while the Kansas National Guard has been stretched during deployments for U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, officials say they have still been able to respond to natural disasters in Kansas.The Kansas National Guard’s largest federal commitment was in October when about 30% of the 7,700 Kansas National Guardsmen and women were in federal service, Woolpert said. “While these numbers are significant, they have not prevented the Kansas National Guard from responding adequately to Kansas emergencies,” he said.
Good idea Hotdog1, a civilian response unit. I suppose it could be styled along the Corp of Engineer methodology?
Upon review, sorry for the long post. My source was an email and I did not have a link.
Gee, writedog why and where did your son learn it’s acceptable to lie to justify his means. Why would he lie about join the Army to you, was it because you are such a political bully that forces your corrupted opinions on family, friends and those oppose your garbage? Did he lie to you because you have lied to him and others about the war? He must know and understands the threat of terrorism is real, yet didn’t want to continue suffering your rants of ignorance based on political motivation. He’s willing to work for the person you slander continually knowing it would irk you. You have taught him it’s acceptable to lie to and he did to justify doing the right thing. So he’ll be out there protecting your right to continue lying about his commander in chief, ridiculing the administration, and criticising the military. God bless your son may he return to his wife safe and sound.
Good idea Hotdog1, a civilian response unit. I suppose it could be styled along the Corp of Engineer methodology?
Posted by: Kansas
I did not say I supported the idea. I just wanted others to be aware of what our state is already spending money studying. This will be a huge permanent addition to the revenue stream for Kansas. I am not so sure it is needed.
“Would it really have mattered that much had Gore been elected?”
Posted by GMC70
Yes! The U.S. and entire world would be much better. For an example, read (or listen) to his speech.
Al Gore – September 23, 2002
IRAQ AND THE WAR ON TERRORISMhttp://www.commonwealthclub.org/archive/02/02-09gore-speech.html
Wow, writerdog, many of us know you. And Mrs. Dog.
And might I add that to know you two is to like you, respect you, and… dare I say, love you? Both?
I have no idea who this idiot is taking you to task, but rest assured, your real blog buddies are in your corner.
Another incredible waste of money on the state’s part. Okay, maybe not incredible. But not needed. The KNR already has stated it is able to meet the needs of Kansas during disaster. There is already a volunteer organization MERGE, to coordinate EMS and other activities in case of disaster, there is another volunteer organization to coordinate Fire and rescue activities, (although that is still in development)– I cannot say for certain, but I do not believe they receive state funds. WHy the HELL do we need another level of government bueauracracy. Only Two. Control. and more reason to raise taxes. Many politicians will never be happy until your entire income is their’s to spend as they wish, and they control every aspect of your daily life (for you own good of course). This is just another example.
damn ksfarmgrrl why do you got to go and get all mushy?
You don’t have to know the man to have read his post and feel his anger and hurt. And at that same time disagree with his political views – but still be supportive.
In fact, he gains my respect! He has a son serving our nation.
DURHAM, N.C. — Duke University President Richard Brodhead apologized Saturday for not better supporting the men’s lacrosse players falsely accused in last year’s highly publicized rape scandal.
Brodhead, speaking at the university’s law school, said he regretted Duke’s “failure to reach out” in a “time of extraordinary peril” after a woman accused three players of raping at a March 2006 party thrown by the team.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298602,00.html
Translated: Please don’t sue me.
cosmos -
I understand what he SAID. And he said what he said from the luxury of being on the outside. But as you well know, there is a huge difference between politics and governing; saying is one thing, doing is another. NO ONE knew in Nov. 2000 that the following Sept. 11 the world would change. How does that effect what we SAY, and what we do?
Presidents, like politicians in general, and like many of us at times, are largely caught up in the currents of history and play the cards that are dealt them. The must, as Teddy Roosevelt put it, “ride the tiger.” And no one knows where that tiger is going.
I don’t pretend to know either. But I strongly suspect there would have been less difference than we like to think. Governments and events have their own momentum, and even presidents have difficulty fighting that momentum.
Okay, maybe not incredible. But not needed. Posted by: littlejohn
That’s how I’m leaning LJ. I hope we can read about this in SOMEone’s local newspaper. The people need to know what their state government is up to.
It may all be politically driven, “Bush stole our troops, so now we need to form our own guard?”
I don’t know, but I hope to find out more.
Its odd that its the Repubs calling for a another level of government bureaucracy?
Writerdog-
I am sorry that your son and daughter in law chose this path without including you as part of their decision making. It hurts, I know. It hurts even more that he may be killed or maimed in an action that is against your beliefs, and the beliefs of many here (including mine). I have many friends in Iraq, I have family members in Iraq, so I understand your thoughts.However, he is an adult. He has chosen his path. Not only his path, but the path of his bride. I am sure they spent many hours discussing it, coming to this conclusion. I do not know the reasons. I would not even venture to guess. it doesn’t matter. it was his choice to make. Now, I believe you must express your confidence in him. You may express your regret in his lifestyle, but you must support him. You may disagree with the current action in Iraq and Afganistan or not. Bringing it up only separates you from him. The choice has been made. You have raised him the best that you can. Time to support himwhile privately agonizing over the choice he has made. Maybe you are already doing this. If so, I apologize. I am talking parent to parent. I don’t give a flip about the politics of it. THe war in Iraq is bad. I was against it from the start, and seek to remove ourselves from it in a way that makes sense.
In the meanwhile, I will pray for your family, and like all parents, hope for only good news. For your family, for mine, and all the rest who have family in the sand
But I strongly suspect there would have been less difference than we like to think. Governments and events have their own momentum, and even presidents have difficulty fighting that momentum.
Posted by: GMC70 | October 01, 2007 at 12:19 PM
This is why I believe we need a review of “How we went to Iraq” which involves all agencies of our federal government; president and congress.
How else can we change a course which many see as predictable regardless of the party at power?
Let’s push for Congress/President(not likely) to for an independent commission to include both parties of private citizens.
Who did what and when? What could X have done differently to prevent it? What could have been improved upon?
Lastly, the commission should promote a dialogue with the citizens in every state and major city: “When should America go to War?” “What are our interests overseas which would demand war?”
If we can agree to these things ahead of time with bipartisan support, maybe there won’t be a “next time”.
Here’s one for you GMC, Gore as president its possible that he would have paid attention to his PDB, especially the one titled “Bin Laden Determined to attack the US” He might have listened to guys like Richard Clarke, (who says that Bush wanted to invade Iraq before 9/11)So its possible that 9/11 might not have even happened under Gore, even if it did I doubt he would have spent 20 minutes reading a children’s book right after
Eagle Beak,
Sounds eminently rational and democratic. Which is why the coterie who pushed this war will fight like hell to prevent it.
Its odd that its the Repubs calling for a another level of government bureaucracy?
Posted by: Tom Paine | October 01, 2007 at 12:20 PM
Not really Tom Paine.
My idea would have lessened the size of the Kansas National Guard and made permanent civilian jobs, so the transfer of payment wouldn’t be an increase.
I find it silly that the Guard is used in disaster situations because a lot of them are combat related specialties that know nothing about disaster prepardness in a civilian setting. They don’t know construction, renovating or site recovery methods skills vitally important to a disaster scene.
What good is an infantryman going to do at a site when knowing how to shut off gas, water and electrical utilities is more important?
Safeguarding property is important, but safeguarding life and property through proper civil engineering is just as important.
Tom Paine,
We could go further: I imagine the CIA’s information that there were no WMD’s in Iraq wouldn’t have been ignored by President Gore the way it was by President Bush.
The people bagging on writerdog ought to put a sock in it. How dare you! Most likely it is like Capn says and the boy was lured by the military’s bribe.
The naitonal guard has construction units, weather units, and disaster specialists. They provide security at disaster sights, and construciton equipment. WHile they may be “infrantymen” first, they are much more
Dog,
I’m sorry and your whole family will be in my thoughts.
Please don’t blame yourself. Your son is brave and deserves our thanks. I hope he will never be in danger.
How I wish all responsible for PNAC ideals could be imprisoned for the lives lost to their cause! bush (ALL of them!), cheney, rusmfeld, wolfowitz… They ALL deserve to be in prison for life! They are liears and murderers It isn’t the soldiers or the families of the soldiers who should face this danger and worry!
That’s a lot of mights, Tom. It’s far more likely that Al-Quida’s by that time long in motion plan would have gone off anyway. But that’s not what we want to hear.
And the “children’s book” tag line is more than a bit contrived. Yes, the president was doing a photo op with kids that morning when 9/11 happened. And yes, he finished what he was doing.
What would you have him do? What difference would his immediate response have made that day? We know the answer to that: none.
So he finished what he was doing. As well he should.
There’s a lot of things to criticize about Bush, God knows. But that’s not one of them.
lured by the military’s bribe.
Posted by: J R
So, you could not resist throwing a politically hot potato into your post which forces the controversy further?
the boy was lured by the military’s bribe.
Posted by: J R
Yes there is absolutely no way that Writer Dog’s son was influenced by his belief in serving his country (right or wrong).
I read the post of Gore’s speach by Cosmos. I agree with Gore that the pre-emptive war by Bush undermined our ability to obtain the favor of the world in winning the War on Terror because is made America look like it was impatient for war. War’s are won by public relations. We are losing that war and thus, winning the war against terror has been made much more difficult then it should have been.
Gore also says in that article:”I just think that if we end the war in Iraq the way we ended the war in Afghanistan, we could very well be worse off than we are today”. Here he speaks of the need to stabilize the area and finish the job instead of a withdrawl that leaves a power vacuum. The fact that the Democrats will not pledge to withdrawing all troops according to an artificial timetable, reveals that they have some agreement with this statement.
The war sucks, Bush’s decision making has sucked, but letting Al Queda win will suck even more.
I’m gonna do what a couple of other posters did not do. I’m gonna refrain from guessing at this young mans motives. But there is a reason why they offer 20 thousand dollar signing bonuses. It looks awful tempting to a young married guy in a lousy economy. And out of deference to writerdog, I am not going to pursue this discussion further.
The fact that the Democrats will not pledge to withdrawing all troops according to an artificial timetable,
reveals that the republicans were absolutely correct in not backing the series of silly bills promoting same. Hillary too.
out of deference to writerdog, I am not going to pursue this discussion further.
Posted by: J R
You just did genius. So your desire to post something overcame your respect.
Now go save the world, hero.
I disagree with you GMC. That’s one of the worst things he could have done. He should have excused himself and went to take care of business.
That’s one of the worst things he could have done. He should have excused himself and went to take care of business.
Posted by: political_mom
And what exactly would you have done during those “crucial” twenty minutes pmom?
As I recall, the only business the president had at that time was protecting his own ass. The air force flew him around the country for hours on AF1.
Was he supposed to call out the national guard?Was he supposed to call in the JCS?Maybe he should have micromanaged the air force.Maybe he should have micromanaged the air traffic controllers.
Or maybe he should have just stayed calm in front of the camera’s and reassured a classroom of elementary children?
The mess of bushco is now the world’s mess and since he and his won’t even begin to address it, the massive and difficult job of getting our soldiers out of Iraq safely, making improvements to the people’s of the world safety and starting to restore integrity to America’s reputation will begin after we get rid of bush. My greatest fear is what more bushco are capable of before that time.
How about what he could have done in August when he was handed a memo “bin Laden determined to attack in United States? In response, he went fishing.
I have to go back to work, but look forward to seeing detailed responses with specific information from pmom and others on what exactly those “crucial” twenty minutes should have been spent doing.
No general terms. If he did something “wrong”, you need to tell us exactly what he should have been doing.
PS: Bush sucks, but this is not one of the reasons.
He was the leader of our nation, he should have been getting briefed, making phone calls, protecting himself (yes, he was right to do that).
As an EMT, do you think when my pager goes off, I should sit around for 20 minutes? No, even if it was something big, I could at least get on scene and start planning what to do.
The fact that the Democrats will not pledge to withdrawing all troops according to an artificial timetable,
reveals that the republicans were absolutely correct in not backing the series of silly bills promoting same. Hillary too.
-Pat Herron
Yeah, It’s easy to promise to end the un-popular War in Iraq when you do not have the power to do so. Thus the congressional Dem’s made the promises because that was the quickest way to electability. However, they are lame ducks now with their consituency for pretending to promise the pot o gold that they can not deliver.
Presidential candidates who have a reasonable chance of getting elected know better, however that takes away a viable trump card.
How about what he could have done in August Posted by: J R
How about sticking to the point? We were talking about a very specific time period. I’m not even sure it’s twenty minutes, I took it from above poster. Are you capable of that?
People forget that the World Trade Center was not the only place hit on 9/11.
Al Qaeda operatives took control of an jet airliner and crashed it into the ground for the sole purpose of just killing people.
They also crashed a jet airliner into the Pentagon. How much more blatant attack on the United States does it get?
Having been inside a Combat Operations Center, I can tell you it can get real frantic. You have five minutes of frenzy and an hour of waiting to see results.
That is just one layer of communication.
President Bush on 9/11 had to get filtered information from dozens if not hundreds of sources. It must have been mass confusion and certainly unclear of what action to take. Some actions were already taken automatically (fighter jets launched) and some actions were obviously mishandled.
I can imagine President Bush was advised of the situation and told that Air Force 1 was being “fired up” and they will come and get him as soon as they put the comm links and evacuation plans into effect.
It doesn’t happen in a push of a button, it takes time to do these things.
No, even if it was something big, I could at least get on scene and start planning what to do.Posted by: political_mom
Pmom, the president is not an EMT.What SHOULD he have been doing? Do you suppose the briefing he had in AF1 for the next many hours needed to happen sooner? Is that being more effective?
Even if you hate Bush, imagine for a moment the stress on that guy during those crucial hours. He was getting reports and the events were in motion.
As an EMT you have very specfic procedures you follow when you get to a scene. What procedures is the Mayor of your city following while you are clearing airways, start the breathing, stop the bleeding, and protecting the wound?
What is your mayor’s role?
lured by the military’s bribe.
Posted by: J R
If you are raised without values, and your only value is money, why not?
What is your mayor’s role?
Posted by: HOtdog1
Gotta run. Can’t wait for your response.
I believe the president was doing what he was supposed to be doing -reassuring a nation by remaining calm. Not much more than your mayor does during a 4 alarm city emergency.
Repost from the 9-30 Open Blog since Kansas refused to answer it there:
If you want to find my posts, just look for the typepad entry “Kansas.” I’m the only one on the blog that uses that nic and i don’t post under any other nic. I have reformed, I’ve stuck to that nic and will continue to do so.
So, how about giving it a rest and just discuss the issues?
Posted by: Kansas | October 01, 2007 at 10:21 AM
Hey, wait a minute.
Kansas said that he NEVER posted over any other nics.
How can he “reform” unless he did what he said he never did?
Admit what nics you’ve been posting over, Kansas, if you expect to be believed . . . this time.
Passing of a great Kansas athlete.
I remember him when I was a kid when he made that record breaking discus toss.
“Olympic, KU great Al Oerter dies at 71The Associated PressAl Oerter of the United States releases the discus at the Olympic Stadium in Mexico City during the 1968 Summer Games. His throw of 212 feet, 1 1/2 inches (64.78 meters) won him his fourth gold medal.FileAl Oerter of the United States releases the discus at the Olympic Stadium in Mexico City during the 1968 Summer Games. His throw of 212 feet, 1 1/2 inches (64.78 meters) won him his fourth gold medal.
FORT MYERS, Fla. – Al Oerter, the discus great who won gold medals in four straight Olympics to become one of track and fields biggest stars in the 1950s and ’60s, died Monday. He was 71.
Oerter, who was a student at the University of Kansas when he won his first gold medal, died at a hospital near his Fort Myers Beach home, his wife Cathy Oerter said. He had dealt with high blood pressure since he was young and has struggled with heart problems, she said.”
Capn,
I’ll give the same advise I gave to J R.
Give it a rest, it’s not worth wasting any more space on the matter.
How about what he could have done in August when he was handed a memo “bin Laden determined to attack in United States? In response, he went fishing.
Posted by: J R | October 01, 2007 at 01:01 PM
What if, what if, what if?
There was no specific target in the PDF going to Bush. Was he supposed to sound a general alarm and panic the entire country? Do we shut down the country and cower under our Mommies every time there is a terrorist threat?
What if Clinton had knocked off Bin Laden when he had several chances in the 90’s?
15 more months of Bush bashing, then you can start bashing Hillary – for keeping our troops in Iraq.
It’s ultimately nothing but a guess about what would this person have done different than that person. Remember that a president is head of a vast bureaucracy, most of which he has very little real control over, at least in day to day matters. That bureaucracy, like a large ship, has a momentum and a operational policy of its own; it does not stop immediately and change course. It has institutional momentum, difficult to overcome in the long run, and all but impossible to overcome in the short run.
Note this view of a bureaucracy, from the inside of BATF, post from the post and the comments.
http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2007/09/atf_from_the_in.phpThere is no reason to think that ANY bureaucracy, military, civilian, or otherwise, is any different.
By Jan. of 2001, Al-Quida’s operation had much the same momentum. There is little if any evidence to suggest that if a different person had been sitting in the big chair, the outcome would have been significantly different on that day. And there is NO evidence to suggest that Bush jumping up immediately, panicing a group of school kids, would have changed the outcome that fateful day.
It’s less clear that the reaction in the months that followed would have been the same, but of course we don’t know that. I’m skeptical, however, that it would have been substantially different.
The popular conception is that presidents just say the magic words, and like Capt. Picard, it is so. Oh, were that the case! The reality is quite different, of course. The “tiger” of which Roosevelt spoke has other ideas. . .
“Al Qaeda operatives took control of an jet airliner and crashed it into the ground for the sole purpose of just killing people.”Posted by: Kansas | October 01, 2007 at 01:05 PM—————————
So now in your defense of bush and justification of his actions you can’t even give credit to the heroes who were on that flight and caused that crash in the open field where no one else would be endangered?
“Al Qaeda operatives took control of an jet airliner and crashed it into the ground for the sole purpose of just killing people.”======================
Rumsfeld said in a press conference that the PA plane was “brought down” — it wasnt crashed by terrorists… That is a FACT on tape!!
“Al Qaeda operatives took control of an jet airliner and crashed it into the ground for the sole purpose of just killing people.”Posted by: Kansas | October 01, 2007 at 01:05 PM
I have to say that on this, you are full of bs.
“What if Clinton had knocked off Bin Laden when he had several chances in the 90’s?”
========================
Ahh yes, Blame it on Clinton, eh??WELL… He was going to take out Bin Laden… But, a REPUBLICAN Congress opposed that action!! No wonder… Bin Laden was Bush’s family friend!! Ha!!
L J — Those are merely Hannitized talking points… all of those are very old now…
I think it’s hysterical that you’ve deflated the president’s duties to nothing more than a city mayor. The leader of the nation who can mobilize the entire military forces, ask for assistance from other nations, get supplies and equipment up and moving..landing those airplanes was Bush’s finest hour. It could have happened sooner.
A mayor could do the same things except on a smaller scale- start dictating where the red cross will set up, media relations, requesting assistance from wherever they need to come from. Everyone has a role to play in a mass casualty situation, and we do practice for them.
But thats why he is Worst.President.Ever!! LOL
Chas, lindainks, littlejohn,
Sorry you disagree with me, but the facts are outlined in the 911 Commission Report which I have read. If you are interested in the facts, do yourselves a favor and read the report.
I agree there were heroes on that flight and I did not intend to diminish their roles. However, the fact remains, if there were not Al Qaeda on that aircraft that seized control, the aircraft would not have crashed into the ground.
I rely on facts that were presented in the 911 Commission Report, not news print media stories.
if you have other facts unknown to the 911 Commission, then I suggest you contact them so they may amend the report.
Chas-
I don;t know what the hell you are talking about. I don;t listen to Hannity, and I wasn;t using “talking points” anywhere. Now, before I adress you concerns directly, perhaps you would like to enlighten me as to which points are tiresome to you.
L J I was referring to the talking points that YOU said were a bunch of BS… sorry if you read that wrong…
Kansas — Try looking for the Video Tape where Rumsfeld says WE BROUGHT DOWN THE PLANE, in reference to the PA flight…
It’s REAL… I dont have time to do a google, or youtube search right now…
Chas,
I will, but I find it troubling it wasn’t entered into the 911 Commission report.
Why do you think that was?
Chas-
I confess. To being human. I remember making some point about political bs. But alas, I cannot find it. Was it on this thread? Or another? I have searched thru this one, and cannot find it. Damn my frailties anywhow!
Chas,
I found two videos on Rumsfeld talking about flight 93 and the audio was heavily edited. I even looked at it in my audio analyzer that I have and one can clearly see the “breaks” in frequency over time.
Here’s what I found that Rumsfeld actually said on the matter.
“SEC. RUMSFELD: In the coming days, I plan to travel to Shanksville, Pennsylvania, to pay my respects to the passengers of Flight 93 who brought down the plane that hijackers had planned to use as a weapon against our country and our government.”
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=1178
And the 911 Commission Report made it very clear that plane wouldn’t have crashed where it did without those heroes on board.
Your statement:——————————–”Al Qaeda operatives took control of an jet airliner and crashed it into the ground for the sole purpose of just killing people.”Posted by: Kansas | October 01, 2007 at 01:05 PM
——————————–
I not only can rely on facts but know how to interpret them honestly! Nothing should ever be taken away from the heroes on that flight who definitely saved lives that day!
You can spin it however you choose. You can make justifications for your words just like you make excuses for and justifications in defense of bush.
We all know how to read.
kansas– your post below
“SEC. RUMSFELD: In the coming days, I plan to travel to Shanksville, Pennsylvania, to pay my respects to the passengers of Flight 93 who brought down the plane that hijackers had planned to use as a weapon against our country and our government.”
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=1178
Posted by: Kansas | October 01, 2007 at 01:49 PM
Directly contradicts your post”Al Qaeda operatives took control of an jet airliner and crashed it into the ground for the sole purpose of just killing people.”Posted by: Kansas | October 01, 2007 at 01:05 PM
Chas-
I confess. To being human. I remember making some point about political bs. But alas, I cannot find it. Was it on this thread? Or another? I have searched thru this one, and cannot find it. Damn my frailties anywhow!
Posted by: littlejohn | October 01, 2007 at 01:48 PM
I found it. Nevermind. Although I didn;’t know that Hannity ever stated AL Queada flew the plane into the ground.
In an answer to hotdog’s question, I can think of one thing Bush should not have done in that timeframe on 09/11. That would be not calling the attacker’s “cowards” as he was getting in a plane to go hide in a hole in Nebraska. It just did not look good.
Directly contradicts your post”Al Qaeda operatives took control of an jet airliner and crashed it into the ground for the sole purpose of just killing people.”Posted by: Kansas | October 01, 2007 at 01:05 PM
Posted by: littlejohn | October 01, 2007 at 01:53 PM
As I said before littlejohn, I did not mean to diminish what people interpret of what happened on flight 93. I think they are heroes.
I was merely pointing out the fact that if Al Qaeda had not been intent on killing people for their religious ideologies, this would have never have happened. Al Qaeda’s intent was to kill people.
I haven’t read or heard anything where the passengers successfully entered the cockpit and took control of the aircraft. If you can point me to an official source let me know.
But littlejohn, I’m not questioning the heroic action of the passengers. I’m just questioning the accuracy of what actually happened and no one can say what happened as there are no video recorders to show the events.
Do I honor the passengers of Flt 93 as heroes? Of course. Now please littlejohn, understand what I was saying and try not put anything extra in what I wrote as an insult to the passengers of Flt 93.
In an answer to hotdog’s question, I can think of one thing Bush should not have done in that timeframe on 09/11. That would be not calling the attacker’s “cowards” as he was getting in a plane to go hide in a hole in Nebraska. It just did not look good.
Posted by: Steven Davis | October 01, 2007 at 02:01 PM
Better to call them heros?
I think that most accounts of the plane that went down in PA indicate that it did so because the hijackers recognized that they were not going to make their target of D.C. due to the passenger uprising.
“Better to call them heros?”
Posted by: Max
Please Max, that was pretty dumb even for you.
Either or fallacy, Max.
Better to call them what they were, terrorists.
In the heat of the moment, I think you call them what they are:
Cowardly Murderers, or a few other things that can’t be posted here.
Taking over a plane with 200 unarmed civilians and killing them all in a crash is not exactly an act of bravery.
Who are you worried about offending?
Steven–
I put plan A into effect a little early.
We’ll see what happens . . .
200??
Max–
It’s a despicable terrorist atrocity, yes.
However, killing yourself for what you believe in (even if it’s an evil belief) is not cowardice.
Cowardice is shrinking from pain and death.
For instance, let’s say you have a little back pain and you get hooked on oxycontin and develop an addiction.
Not facing that addiction is cowardice: just ask Rush Limbaugh.
Attaching unarmed civilians is cowardice.
200??
So, Hud, you’re calling the Blackwater Security Group making tens of millions of dollars under BushCo cowards.
Yeah, I have to agree.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/01/washington/01cnd-blackwater.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Report Depicts Recklessness at Blackwater
By DAVID STOUT and JOHN M. BRODERWASHINGTON,
Oct. 1 — Guards working in Iraq for Blackwater USA have shot innocent Iraqi civilians and have sought to cover up the incidents, sometimes with the help of the State Department, a report prepared for a Congressional committee said today.
The report, based largely on internal Blackwater e-mail messages and State Department documents, depicts the security contractor as being staffed with reckless, shoot-first guards who were not always sober and did not always stop to see who or what was hit by their bullets.
In one incident, the State Department and Blackwater agreed to pay $15,000 to the family of a man killed by “a drunken Blackwater contractor,” the report said. As a State Department official wrote, “We would like to help them resolve this so we can continue with our protective mission.”
The report is likely to raise questions not only about the wisdom of employing private security forces in Iraq, but also about the basic American mission in the country.
Max,
Methinks Bush’s schoolyard name-called demonstrates that he has something to prove. And worse, it suggests that he’s rash rather than brave. Here’s a bit of Aristotle:
“The person who is exceedingly confident about frightening things is rash. The rash person also seems to be a boaster, and a pretender to bravery. At any rate, the attitude to frightening things that the brave person really has is the attitude that the rash person wants to appear to have: hence he imitates the brave person when he can. What is why most of them are rash cowards; for, rash thought they are on these [reasons for imitation], they do not stand firm against anything frightening. Moreover, rash people are impetuous, wishing for dangers when they arrive, but they shrink from them when they come. Brave people, on the contrary, are eager when in action, but they keep quiet until then.”
Aristotle, “Nichomachean Ethics,” Bk. III, Ch. 7, l. 1115b30-1167a10
yes, if they did it, it is cowardice. I say again, if they did it.
“If” . . . hehehe, good one, Hud, good one.
Report after report after report, and this Bush dead-ender has to say “if.”
Yup. I remember when all the Republics were saying “IF Scooter Libby committed perjury . . . “
Cap’N,
And here’s Aristotle on mercenaries, also from the “Nichomachean Ethics.”
“Different people have this sort [of apparent courage] in different conditions. In wartime professional soldiers have it; for there seem to be many groundless alarms in war, and the professionals are the most familiar with these. Hence, they appear brave, since others do not know that the alarms are groundless. Moreover, their experience makes them most capable in attack and defense, since they are skilled in the use of their weapons, and have the best weapons for attack and defense. The result is that in fighting nonprofessionals they are like amred troops against unarmed, or trained athletes against ordinary people; for in these contests also the best fighters are the strongest and physically fittest, not the bravest.
Professional soliders, however, turn out to be cowards whenever the danger overstrains them and they are inferior in numbers and equipment. For they are the first to run, whereas the citizen troops stand firm and get killed….For the citizesn find it shameful to run, and find death more chocieworthy than death at this cost. But the professionals from the start were facing the danger on the assumption of their superiority; once they learn their mistake, they run, since they are more afraid of being killed than of doing something shameful. That is not the brave person’s character.”
“Nichomachean Ethics,” Bk. III, Ch. 8.
this Bush dead-ender has to say “if.”Posted by: CapnAmerica
I love name calling. What is your group says? Oh, Can’t defend your position attack the poster.
I just believe in the policy of “innocent until proven guilty”. Apparently, you don’t.
Taking over a plane with 200 unarmed civilians and killing them all in a crash is not exactly an act of bravery.
Uh point of order? The aircraft only has 172 seats.
It’s standard procedure for armies to de-humanize the enemy. Young men are far more likely to “eliminate the enemy” rather than “kill that human being over there.”
So we call their guys guerillas or insurgents or terrorists and call our guys freedom figuters and patriots.
Is there a chance — just a chance, mind you — that people who are shooting and bombing and killing the American occupation force in Iraq might think of themselves as patriotic defenders of their homeland? As crazy and desperate as the 9/11 highjackers’ actions were, they — as anyone on any suicide mission — put their beliefs into action.
Perhaps — just maybe — there should be people in power in the United States of America whose first priority should be to try and reduce the number of issues worth dying for. And to reduce the number of issues worth killing for.
It’s well-documented that the Neo-Cons running the current presidential administration thought it was a good idea to kill brown people and force “democracy” upon them at gunpoint. Just how’s that worked out?
The aircraft only has 172 seats.Posted by: J R
Right, that does change things.
I have no issues or problems calling the Al Qaeda hijackers cowards and would say it to their face if they were alive.
Geez, get beyond this so you can post opinions:
It had 182 seats but was carrying only 37 passengers (including the four hijackers) and seven crew members: two pilots, the captain Jason M. Dahl and his first officer, LeRoy Homer Jr.; and five flight attendants. Because one passenger had booked two seats, some early accounts said there were 38 passengers on board. The four hijackers were seated in first class.
Hud–
The reason I attack “you people” is because no amount of evidence is ever enough to prove someone guilty, if they’re a CON . . .
Hillary shaking hands with the man she doesn’t even know.Imagine that.
Democratic fundraiser is a fugitive in plain sightCalifornia authorities have sought businessman Norman Hsu for 15 years. Since 2004, he has carved out a place of honor raising cash for such candidates as Hillary Rodham Clinton.
By Chuck Neubauer and Robin Fields, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
August 29, 2007
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/hillary-fundraiser-hsu-wanted-for-grand-theft
Writerdog, I won’t reiterate my position on the Wars again. It’s well-known here.
Just a reminder: as tragic and pointless as the carnage is, most who go over there are coming back. Hang on tight, bro.
I hope this kills Hillary’s campaign.
Just like Abramoff did to Bush’s career.
Hey, wait a minute . . .
“Hud–
The reason I attack “you people” is because no amount of evidence is ever enough to prove someone guilty, if they’re a CON . . . ”
But if they’re a muslim or an Arab. . .
The reason I attack “you people” is because no amount of evidence is ever enough to prove someone guilty…Posted by: CapnAmerica
Really? You can save me a lot of trouble by telling me what I think about the Blackwater incident.
The reason I attack “you people” is because no amount of evidence is ever enough to prove someone guilty, if they’re a CON . . .
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 01, 2007 at 03:04 PM
Self-appointed Judge and Jury is not your strong suit Capn.
Wow! My wife and I make over 150K jointly, but I sure could use another 5K for my kids educational IRA’s and 501 Plans.
“I like the idea of giving every baby born in America a $5,000 account that will grow over time, so that when that young person turns 18 if they have finished high school they will be able to access it to go to college or maybe they will be able to make that down payment on their first home,” she said.http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-ushill0929,0,991382.story?coll=ny_home_rail_headlines
As per our agreement, I asked Mr. Brownlee to check to see if Kansas’s IP has been used to post any other nics on this thread.
He sent a response back a few minutes ago.
No.
So . . . until further notice, Kansas appears to be NOT GUILTY of nic switching lately.
That is all.
“Kansas appears to be NOT GUILTY”
Oh my gosh! You mean the finger pointing, name calling, LOLs, Hehehes were all in vain?
The sky must be falling.
So . . . until further notice, Kansas appears to be NOT GUILTY of nic switching lately.
That is all.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 01, 2007 at 03:13 PM
I’m just waiting for all the apologies to Kansas to overflow the blog….
This was to rich for me to walk away from.
========================Do you approve of Iran using operatives to help smuggle, train and deploy terrorists in Iraq to help kill our servicemen? Posted by Kansas
I wonder if Russia felt the same way about the US suppling money and arms to the Afghan fighters?——————————–”Bhutto says she might allow U.S. strike on bin Laden”
1 hour, 32 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto said on Monday that she might allow a U.S. military strike inside Pakistan to eliminate al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden if she were the country’s leader.
“I would hope that I would be able to take Osama bin Laden myself without depending on the Americans. But if I couldn’t do it, of course we are fighting this war together and (I) would seek their cooperation in eliminating him,” Bhutto said in an interview on BBC World News America…………………
I hope she is telling the truth and I hope what she is saying doesn’t get her killed.———————————U.S. Military Death Down in IraqBy STEVEN R. HURST – 9 hours ago
BAGHDAD (AP) — Sixty-three U.S. military deaths were reported in September, the lowest monthly toll since July 2006, according to U.S. forces and a preliminary count by The Associated Press.
A U.S. soldier was killed Sunday in a small-arms attack during combat operations in eastern Baghdad, the military said Monday. The soldier, whose name was withheld pending notification of relatives, was assigned to the Multi-National Division-Baghdad. In July 2006, 43 American soldiers were killed, according to an AP count.
“It’s still too high,” military spokesman Rear Admiral Mark Fox said of the deaths Sunday during a news conference. “But the trend is in the right direction.”……..
Thank God.
That’s my 2 cents for now–got to go do some yard work. What a beautiful day here in Wichita.
‘Scientists Call For 80 Percent Drop In U.S. Emissions By 2050 To Avoid Dangerous Warming’http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070928220337.htm
““The study assumes both developing and industrialized countries would have to converge to equitable per-capita emissions to stabilize the world’s climate,” she said.
“However, even with other countries taking aggressive action, since the United States is responsible for nearly one-quarter of global emissions, it must act now to achieve the deep cuts in its energy consumption that will be required to meet this target.” “
Apologize to the rest of us for wasting time and space with all the false accusations. It ruined any good thread that started. The regulars should be ashamed. Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black.
Well, it doesn’t prove that he wasn’t doing it in the past, but it some pretty good evidence that he’s not doing it now.
So, for my part, I’m not going to rag at him any more about it.
Phil proably didn’t check.
Phil proably didn’t check.
Posted by: J R |
No, but I’ll bet Phil probably did check.
Hell, any semi-literate computer geek can change IP adresses in a new york minute. So, using different IP’s to post is a no-brainer.
I’m just waiting for all the apologies to Kansas to overflow the blog….
Posted by: Max | October 01, 2007 at 03:22 PM
There is no breath holding on my end, that’s for sure.
Well I don’t either of you to not hold your breath. I encouage that.
Look at the quality of the thread. I don’t ANYONE was trolling then.
I’ll leave it at that.
“I have no issues or problems calling the Al Qaeda hijackers cowards and would say it to their face if they were alive.”
My goodness, you people are so thick-headed. The point was that Bush called them cowards as he was being taken to the middle of the country to HIDE. Get it. It seems a little disingenuous to call people cowards when you’re running away. Calling them cowards in any other context would have been much better.
Too bad, there is not an option to draw pictures on this blog.
Shaking my head…
The Kansas abortion industry should soon be reeling from citizen assaults in the form of the Sedgwick County petition completed and filed to convene a grand jury to investigate crimes of 2003-2007 in George Tiller’s abortion mill, the Kansas petition to the Board of Healing Arts to investigate crimes of 2003-2007 in Tiller’s abortion mill, and the Johnson County petition to convene a grand jury to investigate crimes in Planned Parenthood’s Overland Park abortion mill. At the same time, we eagerly expect legislative action from the testimony and evidence submitted in September to the joint legislative committee on abortion mill crimes and the breakdown of law enforcement, particularly if we can get a new Kansas House Speaker with a spine in January. Waiting in the wings should be a huge insurance fraud investigation, since medical insurance companies have paid out millions to Kansas abortion mills, often, as we now clearly know, based on fraudulent claims and falsified medical records. We cannot rely on the biased pro-abortion Kansas Insurance Commissioner to take any action against the crime-ridden Kansas abortion industry, however. Since all of you who pay medical insurance premiums bear the cost of fraudulent abortions, particularly those claimed to be “necessary” in order to protect the mother’s vital interest in music concerts, you may need to take action on your own behalf there.See petition pagehttp://kfl.org/SiteResources/Data/Templates/FileViewerLayout.asp?docid=854&DocName=Petition%20to%20KS%20Board%20of%20Healing%20Artsand pagehttp://lifepetition.com/
Well I don’t either of you to not hold your breath. I encouage that.
Posted by: J R
Instead of “I don’t either”, next time try using “I don’t want either” when trying to form a coherent sentence.
The right is not much gifted with an appresiation for nuance Steven. They also are not terribly bright.
People who type fast sometimes leave. . . out.
Get over it, Pat.
appreciation for the spelling police anal retentive.
“The point was that Bush called them cowards as he was being taken to the middle of the country to HIDE.”
Interesting, did we know within the first two hours that 1) terrorists took the planes 2) terrorists had blown themselves up?
There are other scenario’s which may have been just as likely at THAT time. Could a pilot’s family have been held hostage? Could they have somehow survived with parachutes after killing everyone on board and setting the auto-pilot? Remotely driven?
At that point coward would have come to mind for nearly any of us. Unfortunately, the president gets to have couch potato quarter backs deciding after the event.
OMG, you’re right, JR. She is in love with you!
Stumper–
Yeah, that’s the thing. With the system they’ve got set up here, even THEY can’t know who’s who.
But for now the evidence is on Kansas’s side, I have to admit it.
My goodness, you people are so thick-headed. The point was that Bush called them cowards as he was being taken to the middle of the country to HIDE. Get it.Posted by: Steven Davis | October 01, 2007 at 03:34 PM
Not really Steven Davis – the Secret Service has mandates to protect the President. He was whisked away in accordance to those plans.
It is my opinion, if it was left up to President Bush, he would have flown back to Washington D.C.
If there was not a presidential election next year, democrats would still be calling for a withdrawal from Iraq.
OMG, you’re right, JR. She is in love with you!
Not really Capn. I’m watching it closely because it announced itself under great fanfare with comments of saving the world.
So, I’m still waiting with bated breath. Because the world does need it.
Hell, any semi-literate computer geek can change IP adresses in a new york minute. So, using different IP’s to post is a no-brainer.
Posted by: stumper
It doesn’t even take active efforts to change an IP. Just change computers. I have a work laptop, which I log on via VPN primary. I work for a nationwide company and I can “dial in” to any of the active servers if my primary is busy. I also have second part time job which also has a dedicated PC (you hate me when you are behind me going through airline security). Anyway, I can sit in the coffee shop and now even Mickey D’s, and access via those locations into that business server. Then, I have my old desktop at home with my cable provider and dial up capable via my work line too.
Do all these register under one IP?
Hey Kansas!
Did you collect any money from the libs eager to take your bet?
Did you collect any money from the libs eager to take your bet?
Posted by: Pat Herron | October 01, 2007 at 03:55 PM
Not a penny Pat, because no one would take the bet. :)
By the way, I saved Capn’s link about where it stated I wasn’t trolling, just in case some late comers show up and start pointing the finger at me. heh
It’s a shame you should even have to do that Kansas.
What good is an infantryman going to do at a site when knowing how to shut off gas, water and electrical utilities is more important?Posted by: Kansas | October 01, 2007 at 12:32 PM
In the immediate aftermath of a disaster, sometimes the greatest need is warm bodies to clear away wreckage and free the injured. I’ve worked a few disasters tornadoes, floods), and we were very glad to see the Guard coming over the hill. Doesn’t take a specialist to help lift a wall off an injured victim, just a few strong men.
I disagree with you GMC. That’s one of the worst things he could have done. He should have excused himself and went to take care of business.
Posted by: political_mom | October 01, 2007 at 12:51 PM
IIRC, didn’t Bush and Cheney go into hiding for the rest of the day? As I recall, neither one went back to Washington to lead our nation when we were attacked. Maybe that’s excusable considering that Washington had been hit, but all things considered, I would think Bush should have been leading instead of hiding.
“It is my opinion, if it was left up to President Bush, he would have flown back to Washington D.C.”
Posted by: Kansas
In fact it was reported that Bush wanted to return to D.C. long before the secret service would let him.
But, the point again, was that his timing of calling them cowards as he was running away was classic Bush – mismanaged from the get-go.
Police announce more indictments against gangsBY TIM POTTERThe Wichita Eagle
Thanks Chief Williams and Congressman Tiarht!
“…Williams, the police chief, said the task force will continue its investigation, and he expects more charges against gang members and their associates. The investigation will include other gangs besides the Crips, he said.
Williams thanked U.S. Rep. Todd Tiahrt for helping to provide funding for the task force.”
more on the story at:
http://kansas.com/news/updates/story/189400.html
But, the point again, was that his timing of calling them cowards as he was running away was classic Bush – mismanaged from the get-go.
Posted by: Steven Davis | October 01, 2007 at 04:41 PM
I freely admit that George W. Bush, does have a “timing” problem.
Also, with the word nuclear. :)
But if the cost of saving my country is the lost of my child I will have to pay it. AND MAY THERE BE SEVEN LEVELS OF HELL THESE BASTARDS FACE WHOM CAUSED THIS!
Posted by: writerdog
Hey Writerdog, don’t write your son off yet. There may be a silver lining in this.
I can only speak for myself, and I’m not posting under my usual NIC because I don’t want to get flamed or you to know.
But I joined the service at the ripe old age of 18. By two weeks! I knew everything and could whip anyone. I was a big fish in a little pond, and cocky. So cocky I didn’t think my HS grades mattered, just sports. And then I thought I was so cool hanging out with a great bunch of fella’s. I ended up on probation for both my junior and senior year. Long story short, I was a juvenile deliquent heading to no where but trouble. Probably not like your son, I was going nowhere fast.
Best thing that ever happened to me was meeting my drill instructor. Of course at the time, this guy was either Satan himself, or very closely related. At any rate, the story is probably the same for many on this blog – liberal, conservative, independent, or other. I did get to see a big bit of the world. I did learn a lot about leadership from at a very young age, I learned a few skills, and how to work with people from all walks in life. And after serving a few “tours”, I finally got out and can say I’ve worked hard, am successful, and even a leader in my community.But back then as a young tough youth who quickly learned he was not the baddest SOB around – it was all fresh and new and made me very proud of myself.
I guess what I’m saying is your son can learn much from his military experience. He may NOT go to Iraq, the army is spreadout (and thin) all over the globe. Hopefully he enlisted for a contract guarantee for a specific skill. But if not, even a ground pounder can apply his skills in almost any avenue in life (it ain’t all about field stripping an M16).
When I look back on my life, those difficult and trying times in the military, the comradre with brothers in arms, their families – were some of the best of my life.
And I still remember my mother crying when I went off to “die in war”.
This could be a very postive new beginning. I cannot tell you not to be upset about this because of the war, but there is all likely hood your son will excel and flourish in the military.
I’m sure other former military posters can share even greater positives from their time “in the crotch”.
If I could pat you on the back, or shake your hand I would do so in support.
Well it’s been a few hours since it was announced that Kansas is not lurking about using various NIC’s.
And not one apology from a liberal. I guess it was probably someone else’s fault and all you liberals were victim’s?
Now I know why Kansas said what he did about it. He is not bragging or gloating. He is continuing to be the good sport that he is on all the mean spirited attacks and nasty name calling. Following him around like a pack of dogs (pit bulls no doubt).
No one is man enough? I did see XXX’s yesterday being man enough to post first a truce and put out his hand.
Hours wasted hunting him down to beat him up? Or are any of you looking at your feet right now pushing the dirt around with your toe?
Anyone?
Well, I was really only an observer to the whole thing so didn’t pay that much attention to the retraction. As far as I’m concerned the whole thing is silly.
My only outstanding issue with Kansas was that unisex bathroom image …
;^)
As per our agreement, I asked Mr. Brownlee to check to see if Kansas’s IP has been used to post any other nics on this thread.
He sent a response back a few minutes ago.
No.
So . . . until further notice, Kansas appears to be NOT GUILTY of nic switching lately.
That is all.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 01, 2007 at 03:13 PM
I’m just waiting for all the apologies to Kansas to overflow the blog….
Posted by: Max | October 01, 2007 at 03:22 PM
There is no breath holding on my end, that’s for sure.
Posted by: Kansas | October 01, 2007 at 03:29 PM
Kansas, good on you. Please accept my apology for resent accusations of nic-switching.
XXX
Hours wasted hunting him down to beat him up? Or are any of you looking at your feet right now pushing the dirt around with your toe?
Anyone?
Posted by: Pat Herron | October 01, 2007 at 04:56 PM
Sorry Pat,
I just got home and when you type with 2 fingers, posts can be slow.
Don’t you believe it X. I’m right about ol’ kooky spooky JM. Maybe I should do a search on “Republikhan weblog Arrrrrgh”
XXX is an Marine ( was going to to say ex-Marine, but been told there is no such thing.) :)
A stand up guy who will without equivocation tell me how the cow ate the cabbage.
I have no problem with that. :)
Nods in gratitude to XXX.
JR, you know me, you know how I am. As I said on another thread, I believe I do see an attempt by Kansas to reform. Since I have nothing to lose, I’ve made the personal decision to see if the guy is on the level. If he’s goofing on me, rest assured I’ll tear him to pieces. If he’s not, I’ve done what my Christian principals require. I don’t speak for anyone else on this blog, but for myself, XXX stands down.
My only outstanding issue with Kansas was that unisex bathroom image …
;^)
Posted by: Ben | October 01, 2007 at 04:59 PM
I was going to put more in that entry, but figured it was “in plumb enough” with political incorrectness. :)
Well maybe the fact that you XXX and Capn earlier are willing to give him the benefit of the douubt will inspire him to earn and be worthy of that. Or it might make him worse thinking he can get away with it.
Out of respect for your judgement, I too will stand down. I admit or recant nothing. And if I even THINK he is multinic posting I will stand back up again. The archives are FULL of evidence.
A good friend of mine is a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat.
Blue collar union job, we go shooting all the time at the same gun club, have family get together’s (our kids are close in age), etc… He sold guns at a hardware store part-time just for fun. Bought my first handgun from him years ago. His dad was a big union leader. And so Dan voted Democrat all the time, even though he agreed with me on 90% of the issues.
Anyone who becomes bonded to one political party, is it inherited? Are they brainwashed? Is it a nostalgia kind of thing? Following tradition for tradition’s sake?
Like some people become die-hard sports fans, and talk about ‘their’ team all the time saying “we lost” or “we won”. Even though the millionaire players on ‘their teams’ don’t give a dang about the fans. (Imagine, getting millions to play a kids game) They just care about the money, power, and fame.
It’s like Seinfeld said, you are really just rooting for a jersey. There’s no such thing as a “team” anymore. The players change every year, switching teams all the time. Only the jersey stays the same.
Are Democrats and Republicans rooting for a “jersey”? Or do the parties stand for something that people truly believe in? And if so, what do they stand for, specifically?
Dyed-in-the-Wool Conservative Independent
Max
Pat–
Chill.
The WEBlog tried to ban this post-er at one time not long ago. And we have that from Kansas himself. It’s not like he’s blameless.
But for the record, I I did post what I found out.
“Al Qaeda operatives took control of an jet airliner and crashed it into the ground for the sole purpose of just killing people.”Posted by: Kansas | October 01, 2007 at 01:05 PM
I have to say that on this, you are full of bs.
Posted by: littlejohn | October 01, 2007 at 01:27 PM
==========================
There ya go, LJ… I found it for you… And yep, thats what you said!!
Yeah, Max, except my “team” isn’t killing people for nothing.
KANSAS — The RIGHT video for Rumsfeld, was sometime AFTER 911… it wasnt that particular one that you quoted up thread… The one you quoted there is very early in the aftermath…
The one I am talking about was later on, when he was under a good bit of fire for his actions…
I remember it WELL… watched it several times, as well as caught it on YouTube… Maybe I can find it later….
And, even this one, as you noted above, is heavily sound edited… Why?? Because they dont want what he REALLY said to be that public!!
Why not in the 911 Report?? Same reason… They dont want the families of the victims to know that WE shot down Flt. 93 over PA, southeast of Pittsburgh….
I humbly submit that we should all practice what most of us have at one time or another preached. Attack the post and not the poster.
Personally, I’m tired of Open Threads that consist mainly of “F*** You” “No, F*** you”.
We could all step back and maybe grow up a little.
Max,
If you’re married to Kennedy like Schwarzenegger, then you must sport the team logo and offer up many sacrifices upon the altar of bipartisanship (cough.)
“Yeah, Max, except my “team” isn’t killing people for nothing.”
Well they will be starting in 2009 with every indication to 2013.
“But for the record, I I did post what I found out.”
You should have. You were obligated to.
Uh yeah
The position of blog scold has been filled. Fortunatley Ducky doesn’t visit us much. We don’t need a temp til she gets back.
They dont want the families of the victims to know that WE shot down Flt. 93 over PA, southeast of Pittsburgh….Posted by: Chas.
So much for the Heros.
Chas. I really think you have been watching too many movies. Just who was suppose to be doing the shooting down of this aircraft? An aircraft, a ground station, a missile for somewhere?
My experience has been that it is a little harder to shoot down an aircraft than they show in the movies.
J R
” Fortunatley Ducky doesn’t visit us much.”
Instead of “fortunatley” try using”fortunately” when using an adverb.
Instead of “much”, try using the word “often” when attempting to use an adverb.
Save the world.
Come on all of you partisan suckers, trun out and vote like it really matters!!! hehehehehe
The “Fix” Is In
by Chuck Baldwin
September 28, 2007
“Bush quietly advising Hillary Clinton, top Democrats.” This is the title of a much under-reported news story, which appeared in The Examiner on September 24th. The Examiner opens the story by saying, “President Bush is quietly providing back-channel advice to Hillary Rodham Clinton, urging her to modulate her rhetoric so she can effectively prosecute the war in Iraq if elected president.”
The story stems from an interview with White House Chief of Staff, Josh Bolten, for The Examiner’s Senior White House correspondent Bill Sammon’s new book, “The Evangelical President.”
The Examiner said “Bush wants enough continuity in his Iraq policy that ‘even a Democratic president would be in a position to sustain a legitimate presence there.’” Bolten went on to say that “He [Bush] wants to create the conditions where a Democrat not only will have the leeway, but the obligation to see it [the war in Iraq] out.”
Bolten made it clear that Bush expects the war in Iraq to continue “[n]o matter who the president is, no matter what party . . .”
The Examiner story also reported, “A senior White House official said the administration did not put much stock in pledges by Democratic presidential candidates to swiftly end the Iraq war if elected.”
The White House official said, “They [the Democratic frontrunners] are being advised by smart people. We’ve got colleagues here on the staff who have good communications with some of the thinkers on that side.
“And there is recognition by most of them that there has to be a long-term presence [in Iraq] by the United States . . .”
The Examiner also quotes Vice President Dick Cheney as saying, “And I think we’ll increasingly see a lot of emphasis on deciding who the next occupant of the Oval Office is going to be.”
As you read the above, did you not ask the question, “Why is this not a front page story in the mainstream media?” If the media truly wanted to do its job, this story would be page one in every major newspaper and the lead story on every television and radio network news show. But it’s not. Why? Because the powers that control the mainstream media are the same ones who control the two major parties and they don’t want the American people to know that the “fix” is already in. George W. Bush knows it; Hillary Clinton knows it; Dick Cheney knows it; the CFR knows it; Democrat and Republican insiders know it; and now you know it…….http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20070928.html
Leave me alone scoldilocks. I don’t like con women. They’re hard on the eyes.
Sheesh first it was the religious nut, then that chick that wanted to incinerate the Middle east. Now I got little miss language arts tagging after me. And why is it always me?
Anywho…
Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday that every child born in the United States should get a $5,000 “baby bond” from the government to help pay for future costs of college or buying a home.
What a wonderful idea! Imagine being able to actually show your young child that their fellow Americans care about them. What a tremendous sense of community spirit that would engender in our young people. It would go along way toward bringing this nation together again.
It would go along way toward bringing this nation together again.
Posted by: J RWeb | October 01, 2007 at 05:54 PM
I thought you only used one NIC?Now I’ve seen “J”, “J R” “JR” and “J RWeb”.
There is help available for you locally:
http://www.watc.edu/programs-adult_literacy.php
http://www.wkscatholiccharities.org/cc.php?name=History
http://www.wichita.gov/CityOffices/CityManager/neighborhoodservices/CommunityEducation/CE_South.htm
http://www.usd259.com/parents/multilingual/migrant/default.htm
No I’m not trolling. The “web” is a slip of fingers too long used to typing the word web.
“My experience has been that it is a little harder to shoot down an aircraft than they show in the movies.
Posted by: Hud | October 01, 2007 at 05:44 PM
==============================
Hud — It was probably a fighter jet, either from the Air Station at the Pittsburgh Airport, or a plane from the Cleveland Air Station on Lake Erie — less than 130 miles from Pittsburgh…
Rumsfeld said that WE brought it down… I am looking for the Video… I will post it later tonite, if I can find it…
It was a big item on the news when he made the statement…
Oh, man, JR–
She wants you BAD!
“But for the record, I I did post what I found out.”
Pat-ronize writes, You should have. You were obligated to.
*****
No, I wasn’t. It was only my innate sense of fairness that compelled me to.
Try it sometime, CONs . . .
Anybody else notice that the Congress had to raise the spending cap for the SIXTH TIME SINCE 2001 today?
Our national debt now stands at nearly 10 TRILLION dollars.
That’s 30,000 dollars for every man, woman, child and fetus in America.
“There’s a new sheriff in town– one dedicated to fiscal responsibility.” George Bush, 2001.
Or not . . .
Anyone?
Posted by: Pat Herron
Dear Mr. Kansas.
We at Republican Troll Central wish to apologize for any inconvenience we may have caused you.
Our professionally trained trolls are well versed on how to approach each blog, to ensure no harm is done to fellow republican posters.
By sometimes we get those working the late shift, who are not as attentive to duty as they should be.
We have every respect for your toiless efforts on this blog, and your dedication to duty is in the highest traditions of conservatives everywhere.
I will caution our trolls to be more attentive to duty in the future, and to avoid appearing as a regular poster on this blog.
Respectfully,
Senior TrollUSA
PS: If you are ever looking for a job, please feel free to contact me personally at our Troll Central link.
Troll Control Troll Central Red State Division,
I’ve been offered high rewards if I convert to triple agent status at a competing firm. :)
J R,
Your show is on in two minutes.The Japanese office worker Hiro Nakamura is not very good at English either.
http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/
We then Salute you as we depart.
As you sail across the electrons of the blog, we know you and ship are as the Greek word, “artios”, fully fitted and armed. It is used only this once in the Bible. It is to be complete or fully-equipped. It is used to describe a ship that is ready for a voyage, the ship has everything on it that it could possibly need.
We wish you fair winds and following seas in all your posting endeavors.
PS Kansas
(did they offer you your own office and key to the boardroom?)
Perhaps I will sight you once again T. Control, “in the offing.” :)
corner office with bar and a view and private facilities. :)
Darn! I hate that when that happens!
(Pssst! Do you think you could hook me up? Do a little networking for me. Don’t tell Central. I’ll deny asking)
Check the envelope underneath the water color T.C.
Must leave – perimeter alert!
And so it goes on the Blog… good grief… people talking to themselves all over again!!
“Charles O. “Chuck” Baldwin (born May 3, 1952) is an American political figure, activist within the Constitution Party, and pastor of Crossroad Baptist Church in Pensacola, Florida. He hosts a weekly radio show.”From wikopedia.
Yep, this wingnut has his finger on the pulse of America. . . not!
First I want to thank all who express your well wishes to my family, we have not yet heard from our youngest. As for the trolls that say it was my politic bullying that may have forced him not to tell.That may be the problem as I have not ever talked to him nor showed him the evidence that has convinced me of the wrongs that is going on. Perhaps if I had he would have thought better of it. In the past he has talked with me about joining the Air Force and the only thing I warned him of was that to be aware of the “Open enlistment” Where you think you are joining one branch only for the military to put you in the branch they choose to. Its part of the war powers act and in times like this may be used since recruiting is down for the ground grunts.
But to be honest to explain all that to someone that is lack in testacies enough to even use a static name maybe a waste. At least my son has found enough to stand by his country, while you lack enough to stand by your own words.
But to make it clear once again, in the beginning I stated and I still stand by it. This is not political to me, never has been. It about our country, that dear sir or Madame is far more important then this petty partisan politics. I do not see that EVERYTHING is political, something are but when it comes to something as important as this country’s very future and survival. Both party can be damned, neither has all the answers.Partisan politics is a shining object meant to distract and confuse, in times of dire distress it compounds and worsens instead of clears and defines.
Perhaps if the only sources for the information comes from one basis or another then it would not be compelling. But compare the Bush Doctrine to the statement of Principles of the PNAC, stop and really consider what the concept of your country using its military might to force it own form of political control on the other countries of the world. Decide the right and wrong of the idea that we as a nation build on the concept of law and justice. Arguing that we have the right to upon seeing that another nation whether a threat or not. We have the right to bomb or invade if they may in the future might actually be able to stand in our way. Opposing our will to act as we see fit within their part of the world.
These concepts read more like those express by the soviets instead of the United States of the Americas.And the only way of denying it is to totally ignore it, and in that is a danger to itself. “saying well we would never do that! We just reserve the right to if we have to.”. But the doctrine does not impose that restrictions, it claims that we have the right of preemptive strike if just there is a possibility sometime in a future that they may oppose us. If I were arguing that I have the right to kill someone just because they might possibly sometime between now and the end of time could maybe hurt me or my family. Would you agree with that logic devoid of any indication that they are going to?
Oh and Btw Kansas, “Do you approve of Iran using operatives to help smuggle, train and deploy terrorists in Iraq to help kill our servicemen?”. Of course not but is it not the problem with a moral argument of right and wrong. It all depends on what side is arguing it. It is in reality no more right then when we were doing the same thing to Russia when they were in Afghanistan? If we wish to use the excuse to attack Iran then does not that then say Russia should also have a right to strike us? Sadly that is just a part of the international relations. Proxy wars and the use of support of ones enemy to stick it to another country. In the bigger picture as it stands we still face a cross road in this. We can still pull a rabbit out of the hat and both leave Iraq stabile and withdraw our troops and reverse what is the most misguided and damning policy of this country’s history. OR we can attack Iran and bring this nation into a global war that history will record we started.If you were to be the one writing history, which record would you wish to write?
Hey! I almost forgot to include that link:
http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/1949/1/123
Dear writerdog,
As one parent that has has a boy in the sandbox, I can find no fault with your feelings. When your son is in Iraq, there isn’t one politician that you care to listen to. You just want him home safe.
I won’t get into politics, just know that your boy will be in our prayers. This is a big part of his life now, try and be a supportive part of it. The proudest day in my life was when my boy graduated Marine boot camp.
Love him, support him, be proud of him. He’s of age and I think you’ve done a good job raising him. Don’t second guess yourself. You’ll probably soon have grandchildren . . . get even by spoiling them!
Hank
For general info:
Any computer user with very little knowledge can change his IP at the drop of a new york minute. Trolls can use that to fool WE. Also, if one uses an anon service, a troll can make up as many clones as he can, with the same WE results.
So this whole troll/IP/ISP stuff is useless.
Again my sympathies writerdog.
Forget Iran. Who is gonna defend me from Bill Oreilly?
He says he is gonna hunt me down. He says if he wouldn’t go to hell for it he would strangle me!
This man is dangerously insane!
What gives people the right to draw imaginary lines to separate people?
We are all of one earth. If there is a bad dictator anywhere in the world, we have the right to dispose of it.
People tend to say that argument about “what gives us the right to invade a foriegn country and force our will upon them”?
Look! We all pretty much know the basic of right and wrong. To dispose a bad person and try to get the house in order is only separated by right and wrong by an imaginary border, then something is seriously wrong.
Look! We all pretty much know the basic of right and wrong. To dispose a bad person and try to get the house in order is only separated by right and wrong by an imaginary border, then something is seriously wrong.
Posted by: Joe Williams | October 01, 2007 at 07:42 PM
No, that would be the movie “The Matrix” were there are no borders or boundaries. :)
were=where
Here’s >>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Xoxaf1Al0
There are others as well…
In the noisy immigration debate raging in Washington, there is one voice NOT being heard.
The voice of identity theft victims.
Behind many of the nation’s millions of undocumented workers are someone else’s documents. To get a job, illegal immigrants need a Social Security number, and they often borrow one. As victim Melody Millet is fond of saying, U.S. citizens are being forced to share their identities with undocumented immigrants to give corporate America a steady supply of cheap labor.
MSNBC.com reporter Bob Sullivan talks about illegal immigration and identity theft on MSNBC.
Thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Americans are right now sharing their identities with immigrants and don’t know it. It is the dirty little secret of the immigration issue: By not dealing directly with the undocumented worker situation, the U.S government is actually encouraging identity theft. In fact, one can argue that the origins of the identity theft epidemic can be traced to the immigration issue.
The scope of this problem is vast. Every year, nearly 9 million people pay their taxes using the wrong Social Security number. The name used on W-2 tax forms used by employers doesn’t match the name on file with the Social Security Administration. There can be many reasons why — a data entry typo by a human resources department, a woman changes her name after marriage and forgets to report it, or a man uses someone else’s SSN to get a job.
Social Security calls this a “no-match” situation. When this happens, the Social Security Administration collects the money, but the wage credits go into limbo. They don’t end up on anyone’s annual Social Security statement, they end up in something called the Earnings Suspense File. Since 1984, when the Social Security card employment verification requirement kicked in, nearly $500 billion in wages has ended up in that file.
Who are all these people paying their taxes using the wrong SSN? Neither Social Security nor the IRS has ever studied this issue in great detail. But there are clear indications that many — if not most — of the 9 million mismatches are immigrants using the wrong SSN. One study by Social Security indicates no-match payments come most frequently from agricultural and restaurant industries, for example.
Not every mismatched SSN belongs to a real living person, and in fact, it appears many are chosen at random. Some belong to the deceased; others are entirely fictitious. One study showed thousands of entries using obvious fakes, such as 123-45-6789 or 999-99-9999.
Many victims are very realBut many victims are very real. Recently, officials in Utah matched a database of children receiving welfare benefits with a database of workers paying state taxes and found 1,800 child victims. It’s impossible to know how many of the impostors were undocumented workers, but Utah Assistant Attorney General Rich Hamp says that behind most cases the agency has prosecuted so far, he’s found an immigrant using someone else’s papers.
Victims often don’t have any idea they’re sharing their identity with an immigrant, because there’s no way to find out. Social Security won’t tell you if someone else is using your SSN. The extra earnings don’t end up on your annual Social Security statement, because they are designated to the Earnings Suspense File instead. Ditto for the Internal Revenue Service. The misuse isn’t revealed in personal credit reports, either. If somebody uses your number to get a credit card or car loan, the nation’s credit bureaus create a new credit file instead of alerting you to the misuse.
Victims only find out when something goes wrong — when there are unpaid taxes or unpaid bills, debt collectors often track down the original SSN holder.
But there are sometimes hints along the way.
SSN-only ID theft victim Margaret Harrison was once denied unemployment because records showed she had a job. Harrison was in West Virginia — her Social Security number was working on a farm in Washington state. She couldn’t prove her problem until recently, however, when she received a debit card with her impostor’s picture on it.
The immigration issue is an incredibly complex mine field of competing emotional issues. There are sloganeering and extremism on both sides. There will be no kicking out every undocumented worker; and there will be no letting everyone in right away. People who insist on either are naive, foolish or both. There will be hard decisions and heartbreaks. This column does not suggest there is a simple answer.
And it also does not blame the immigrants, who are simply following the real-life rules they’ve been given. Want a job? Want to feed your family, want a better life for your kids? Just get a nine-digit number. The message has been clear from our government and our corporations for 20 years — no one cares whose nine-digit number you use.
Plenty of blame to go aroundThe blame lies on us all for not dealing with the situation directly, and instead encouraging under-the-table activity. There are millions of victims on all sides — including the innocent bystanders who must share their Social Security numbers.
This is what happens when an extra-legal system is in place. Today, there are no rules, which clearly encourages this sharing of Social Security numbers. It encourages the cottage industry that is document forgery. And ultimately, it encourages identity theft.
While consumers cannot learn the secret life of their Social Security numbers, several groups know all about it. The nation’s credit bureaus, for example, can sort their data by number instead of name.
Lenders routinely buy this information when assessing a consumer’s credit risk. Every time MSNBC.com covers this issue, workers at car dealers and banks write in to say they’ve seen countless examples of consumers who apply for accounts and have multiple names connected to their Social Security numbers. Privacy rules prevent them from warning the consumers.
And of course, any agency that collects taxes, such as Social Security or the IRS, has this information.
It would certainly be possible for any of these groups to inform those who are sharing SSNs, but a serious attempt has never been made. Why? I suspect that doing so would personalize the immigration debate and might very well lead to a true flash point for the issue.
Three years ago, Social Security did the next-best thing, sending letters to some employers with large lists of people paying taxes using the wrong SSN. As workers scattered, seeing the letters as tantamount to a deportation notice, immigration rights groups protested. The letters were immediately withdrawn. And here we sit.
One thing activists on many sides of this issue seem to agree on –- it’s time to bring undocumented workers out of the shadows. That would be wise, as it would also bring countless identity theft victims out of the shadows.
But until that happens, the IRS, the SSA and the nation’s credit bureaus need to develop a system that allows the rightful holder of a Social Security number to know if it has a secret life.
Tulsa – Tens of thousands of Hispanics have left the Tulsa area. And, a law designed to crack down on illegal immigration hasn’t even taken effect yet. But, there’s a catch.
East Tulsa is where the majority of Hispanics ended up settling. They came by the thousands and now they’re leaving that way, too. And, it’s all because of one word — deportation.
Business owner Simon Navarro came to America for a better life. And, he found one on Tulsa’s east side.
“I have 11 years here in Tulsa,” he says.
But, a tough new state law has much of Tulsa’s immigrant population fleeing for fear of deportation.
“Two months ago I heard 25-thousand Hispanics have left Oklahoma,” Navarro says.
That is about 30-percent of Oklahoma’s Hispanic population.
“They are leaving. A lot have already left.”
Francisco Trevino runs Tulsa’s Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. He says the exodus hurts a lot of people working in a lot of fields.
“I think restaurants, construction, lawn care they do everything we don’t want to do,” he says.
It’s making it hard for local companies to find workers. But, officials are standing firm. If they are here illegally, it’s a one way trip home.
And, the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office is doing its part to move things along. This week, they’re training deputies to handle the deportation process. And word is spreading quickly. Simon has already said a lot of goodbyes.
“People are leaving,” he says. “They’re scared of the sheriff.”
In the end, Trevino says it hurts everyone.
The American citizens in the state of Oklahoma suffer. It’s as simple as that.”
There is a large group of people on the other side who believe the new law, which takes effect in November, is a good idea.
Most illegal immigrants are ending up in either Kansas or Arkansas. But, that may not be for long. Arkansas is about to adopt a law like Oklahoma’s. Kansas is considering the same thing.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/27/rumsfeld.flt93/
Pentagon: Rumsfeld misspoke on Flight 93 crashDefense secretary’s remark to troops fuels conspiracy theories
From Jamie McIntyreCNN Washington
Monday, December 27, 2004 Posted: 9:54 PM EST (0254 GMT)story.rumsfeld.close.jpgDefense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld referred to the people who “shot down the plane over Pennsylvania.”WASHINGTON (CNN) — A comment Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld made during a Christmas Eve address to U.S. troops in Baghdad has sparked new conspiracy theories about the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.
In the speech, Rumsfeld made a passing reference to United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania after passengers attempted to stop al Qaeda hijackers.
But in his remarks, Rumsfeld referred to the “the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania.”
A Pentagon spokesman insisted that Rumsfeld simply misspoke, but Internet conspiracy theorists seized on the reference to the plane having been shot down…
Interesting what you find when you go looking.
“Soldiers are just cowards with their backs against the wall. The lowest IQ men in our society, those incapable of normal careers enlist. Their choice in life; prison or the military. Some will have to die in the support of our cause.”
“U.S. soldiers who die in Iraq knew they would. Most of them couldn’t get a decent job in the private sector anyway, so what does it matter? Someone has to die in a war, why not the poor?”
Ann Coulter – Intervention Magazine, 11/06/03
Yeah, Max, except my “team” isn’t killing people for nothing.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 01, 2007 at 05:23 PM
Your team can stop it now. They have the majority.
Ive seen that Coulter quote before odd that the right still supports her. Then G Gordon Liddy gets invited to speak at law enforcement conventions even tho hes advocated killing them and is a felon.
Max
You appear about as informed on this matter as you are on the seating capacity and number of passengers on United 93.
Democrats tried 3 times to move to end the occupation of Iraq. YOUR “team” blocked it.
JR, who forced the Dems to vote for funding the war? Hillary?
Good point Max.
bush’s handlers were quite clever going into this. They knew the only way Congress could ever stop a permanent occupation of I raq was by cutting off funding.
Of course NO ONE wants to deprive the troops in the field of funds for supplies.
And there’s the trap. Democrats can only help the troops by cutting them off.
It makes me ashamed that there are those in this country who would concoct this deceptive treadmill of a foreeign policy.
Sure the Pentagon would say Rumsfeld misspoke… BUT… I heard it live… and it didnt sound like a mis-statement to me…
Long day, but here’s some interesting tidbits from our state capital.
More Oversight of Eco-Devo FundingLast week, Kansas Revenue Secretary Joan Wagnon told an interim legislative committee that businesses in Kansas are holding $400 million in state tax credits that lawmakers had given them. And she said the economic development credits, aimed at encouraging companies to expand their investments in Kansas, will probably expire before they are redeemed, presumably because the businesses have not made enough to owe any taxes. Wagnon assessed the “High Performance Incentive Program”(HPIP) as not doing a very good job because it has given businesses “something they can’t use.” And, if they do cash in the credits?
“This makes me a little nervous,” said state Rep. Kenny Wilk, R-Lansing, who is chairman of the House tax committee. Wagnon said the state would face a tough task if businesses used those tax credits in the near future. A $400 million hit to the state treasury would do severe damage to the state budget. “The question remains: where would we get it?” she said. “What good does it do to incent business if we bankrupt the state?”Tax credits, such as the HPIP that Wagnon described, tax diversions, grants, you name it, Kansas officials have given businesses lots of tax benefits and other funding in the name of economic development. Now a growing number of lawmakers want to know if it’s paying off. Last week, the interim committee ordered a state audit to find out how much the state spends on economic development, where the money goes and whether it is doing any good. No one at this point knows how many dollars and benefits are out there. That will be one of the tasks of the audit, which is expected to take at least four months.
Lawmakers have adopted some big-ticket items in recent years. One is the Kansas Lottery. About $42.5 million per year of lottery funds are transferred to state agencies dealing with economic development, such as the Kansas Department of Commerce and Kansas Technology Enterprise Corp.In 2004, the state formed the Kansas Bioscience Authority and charged it with making Kansas a national leader in the biosciences, creating jobs and development. The authority is financed about $25 million per year from withholding taxes on the wages of certain employees in bioscience industries. The state also issues STAR bonds, where under certain circumstances, a city or entity is allowed to use new sales tax revenue to pay off the development loans. The financing tool has been responsible for the development of the NASCAR track and other attractions in Wyandotte County, but there has been much pressure from local officials and legislators to expand the use of STAR bonds for smaller projects. And there are numerous other pots of money in the state budget that go to economic development.But Kirk McClure, associate professor of urban planning at Kansas University, testified that governments usually go overboard in trying to stimulate economic development. Research shows that the best thing government can do for the economy is provide excellent public education and good infrastructure, McClure said. “Beyond that, the overwhelming majority of investments in economic development are a waste of money,”he said. But business interests combine with political ambition usually result in overselling government’s role and use of tax dollars in the pursuit of economic development, he said. Elected officials, who have to stand for re-election every two or four years “want to be able to stand up and cut a ribbon and say that my actions brought this to our community,” he said.Economic efficiency is what the audit is aimed to assess. Lawmakers say they hope the audit will tell them whether they are hitting the mark with the eco-devo funds.
This $400 million in State tax credits, isn’t that corporate welfare?
That’s 30,000 dollars for every man, woman, child and fetus in America.Posted by: CapnAmerica
I’m laughing Capn because those are the words that drove my conservative tongue for over a decade. I had the national debt clock in my favorites in 1990.
We used to claim to hold that title. Democrats can by the actions of President Clinton and the actions of Bush Jr…
But historically, they are all guilty of spending more than they bring in. It’s all a game they play with us to keep us on one of two teams – so we don’t go after the whole lot.
It will be interesting, to say the least. Here a modern demcorat posts (or boasts) his concerns about the national debt. Meanwhile, his parties primary candidate is BOASTING two spanking new ENTITLEMENT progams before she is even in office.
I know, I know, the money spent in Iraq, blah, blah, blah. But the grim reaper is out there. We cannot fund it all. We are driving down our currency with our huge debt (should be the next thing you posted after your concern), other countries are fleeing the dollar standard, and we have imported more than we export for decades. In short, we are an indebted nation. Can’t go on.
But my sincere congratulations on being able to boast concern for the debt. Used to be my party doing so. I voted the rascals out.
I’m still waiting for the replacements to show me any better.
Regards.
More news briefed to our representatives in the big Kansas puzzle palace. You know how we want criminals locked up and throw away the key? Well, they don’t make little rocks out of big rocks anymore, but we are paying for them just the same. No license plates either. (Yawn, real long day, but wanted to share).
Of Interest:Aging Prison Population:Justice Department statistics show that the number of inmates in federal and state prisons age 55 and older shot up 33% from 2000 to 2005, the most recent year for which the data was available. That’s faster than the 9% growth in prison population overall. The trend is pronounced in the South, with some of the nation’s toughest sentencing laws. In 16 Southern states, the growth rate has escalated by an average of 145% since 1997, according to the Southern Legislative Conference.
Rising prison health care costs helped fuel a 10% jump in state prison spending from fiscal year 2005 to 2006, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.Of course, the graying of the nation’s prisons mirrors the population as baby boomers move into their fifties and sixties.
However, many inmates arrive after years of unhealthy living, often substance abuse and other unhealthy activities. Once they enter prison, they aren’t eligible for Medicaid or Medicare, so the state has to shoulder the health care burden without assistance from federal funds.
Estimates place the annual cost of housing an inmate at $18,000 to $31,000 a year. In addition to medical treatment costs, there are other, less obvious expenses for elderly inmates. For instance, elderly inmates can’t climb to the top bunk so they sometimes need to be housed in separate units.The state must provide medical care for all its inmates. The U.S.Supreme Court ruled in 1976 that inmates have a constitutional right to health care. Failure to provide necessary medical care violates the Eighth Amendment prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. In Alabama, the Southern Center for Human Rights in 2005 filed a federal class action lawsuit to force the Hamilton Aged and Infirm Correctional Facility to improve conditions. Prisoners with serious medical conditions sometimes had to wait several months or more for treatment, the lawsuit said. A federal judge in 2006 appointed a receiver to oversee California’s prison system after finding that an average of one inmate a week was dying of neglect or malpractice.Tough sentencing laws passed in the crime-busting 1980s and 1990s are largely responsible for the growth in geriatric prisoners that is fueling an explosion in inmate health costs for cash-strapped states.
Reacting to violent crime in the 1980s and 1990s, state lawmakers passedtwo- and three-strikes laws and abolished parole. The “truth in sentencing” movement fostered mandatory sentences for serious crimes which locked in a certain number of years served and took away discretion for early release on good behavior or infirmity.
Legislatures are now seeing the results of those laws, said Ronald Aday, professor of aging studies at Middle Tennessee University who has written a book on aging prisoners. He has written a book, Aging Prisoners, A Crisis in American Corrections, which predicts that more and more elderly offenders will enter the criminal justice system or grow old behind bars. In this comprehensive review and analysis, Aday addresses the challenges and issues that local, state, and federal corrections systems must face in handling this special group.Integrating practical approaches and theoretical concepts, the author covers the medical, gerontological, psychological and social aspects of aging in place in prison. This important book reviews the current state of our prisons, crime patterns among the elderly, problems associated with long-term inmates, the treatment of older women prisoners, and the possibility of an elderly justice system. Beginning with a careful consideration of the nature and causes of crime committed by the elderly, Aday addresses recent trends in correctional systems that must address problems of overcrowding, violence, health care, and rising costs. Focusing on the health needs of a greying prison population, the author also discusses correctional programs that have been implemented to deal with the problems associated with older offenders and prisoners.Implications and recommendations for social and criminal justice policy are offered, making this a valuable resource for criminal justice professionals, health providers, policy makers, social workers, and students.
Has the Darwin award of the day been posted?
Happy Birthday to You Mom! No, I will cut the cake! No, you won’t, I will!
Sons Stab Each Other During Chicago Mom’s Birthday PartyMonday, October 01, 2007
CHICAGO — A Southwest Chicago mother got the fright of her life Sunday night when her two sons stabbed each other during her birthday celebration, police said.
The men, ages 37 and 39, were hospitalized in critical condition, but were expected to live. No charges have yet been filed.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298802,00.html
Need a law to ban knives, or at least put warning labels on them.
One reason not to trust the UN, they can’t even decide what statement to issue, much less what to do about an attack killing 10 UN troops in Darfur.
http://voanews.com/english/2007-10-02-voa3.cfmUN Security Council Condemns Darfur Attack on AU Base
By Margaret Besheer
United Nations02 October 2007The U.N. Security Council has condemned an attack on African Union peacekeepers in Sudan’s Darfur region that killed 10 of them, but could not agree on language for a formal statement. From U.N. headquarters in New York, VOA’s Margaret Besheer has more.
Well I didn’t see anyone has provided the specific actions our CIC should have been doing for twenty minutes precisely when he was reading to the kids in Florida. Saw a little discussion on what he should NOT have s.a.i.d., but nothing concrete on what actual actions our POTUS should do when informed two airplanes have crashed into a building in NY NY.
I’ll let it die, as I hope the nit-picky poster does. There are plenty of significant items to beat up Bush for. This is not one of them. It indicates you are being picayune in your character assassination of Bush. Because of that, I don’t hear very well your stand on the bigger issues. I’m caught up in your hate and overwhelmed that everything he does is evil. In short, you lost me. I’m probably not alone. There are many conservatives on the fence. You turn us off attacking every booger picked. You are as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. You turn me off.
I hope all of you took note in the healthcare for inmate posting above:
“Prisoners with serious medical conditions sometimes had to wait several months or more for treatment, the lawsuit said.”
Welcome to socialized medicine and Hillary care. Think it can’t happen, these are inmates? Think again.
And the US Government is not effectively enforcing the law.
One Judge stops immigration law enforcement across all of America.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/02/us/02social.htmlCourt Orders a New Delay on Illegal Worker Rules
By JULIA PRESTONPublished: October 2, 2007A federal judge in San Francisco yesterday extended for 10 days a temporary ban on a central measure in the Bush administration’s campaign to crack down on employers who hire illegal immigrants.
After a two-hour hearing, the judge, Charles R. Breyer of Federal District Court, strongly suggested that he was leaning against the government in the case.
The ban further delayed the start of a rule, which establishes steps an employer must follow after receiving a notice from the Social Security Administration, known as a no-match letter, reporting that an employee’s identity information does not match the agency’s records. According to the rule, originally scheduled to take effect Sept. 14, if the employee cannot clarify the mismatch within 90 days, the employer would be required to fire the worker or risk prosecution for knowingly hiring illegal immigrants. Those immigrants often provide false Social Security numbers when applying for jobs.
O.K., that’s all I could think on at work. Guess I’ll climb down off my crowbait and get a wiggle on to get my leftover dinner out of the microwave. I may sit a spell and watch to see whos’ on the shoot, tonight. But I’ll probably peter out before I can see if anyone gave me what for.
Hillary’s Social Security Solution: This is an excellent example of how to string together the maximum number of weasel words in one sentence.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/29/opinion/29collins.html?_r=1&oref=sloginDuring the latest Democratic debate, Hillary Clinton was exactly that kind of candidate. When she was asked if she favored lifting the cap on Social Security taxes (currently only the first $97,500 in income is taxed), all she would say was that she wanted to “put fiscal responsibility first.”
As opposed to all the other people who want to put it last.
When the moderator, Tim Russert, asked whether she was completely ruling out the idea of lifting the cap, this is what Clinton had to say:
“Well, I take everything off the table until we move toward fiscal responsibility and before we have a bipartisan process. I don’t think I should be negotiating about what I would do as president. You know, I want to see what other people come to the table with.”
This is an excellent example of how to string together the maximum number of weasel words in one sentence. It was also pretty typical of Hillary’s entire evening. It’s one thing to refuse to answer a hypothetical question about whether there is any circumstance under which you might ever use nuclear weapons against Iran. It’s another to refuse to commit on who you’d root for if the Yankees played the Cubs in the World Series. No young person is going to fall in love with politics because of a candidate who says: “I would probably have to alternate sides.”
sort and deport
MAX ummm – she is senator from NY… but she grew up in suburban Chicago… northwest side!!
Well, long day tomorrow….
Good night; Good luck; God Bless; whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings all!!
Sort and Deport !!
Tony–
Damn right, get rid of the greasers!
And I say, start with the G-D Italians. Send ‘em back to the pope they love so much.
Capiche, you stupid guinea b*st*rd?
For general info:
Any computer user with very little knowledge can change his IP at the drop of a new york minute. Trolls can use that to fool WE. Also, if one uses an anon service, a troll can make up as many clones as he can, with the same WE results.
So this whole troll/IP/ISP stuff is useless.
Posted by: stumper | October 01, 2007 at 07:39 PM
Thanks for the info, Stumper. I get the feeling that this is why the WEBlog editors were unsuccessful in banning Republi-Kansas the first time around.
” But business interests combine with political ambition usually result in overselling government’s role and use of tax dollars in the pursuit of economic development, he said. Elected officials, who have to stand for re-election every two or four years “want to be able to stand up and cut a ribbon and say that my actions brought this to our community,” he said.”
Very GOOD hotdog. I’ve been saying this for a LONG time. These “incentives” are not really helpful in decision making, they just add icing on the cake AFTER the decisions have been made.
Like I always say, economic development, as practiced in Kansas, is the BIGGEST hoax EVER perpetrated on the taxpayers of the state.
It is indeed corporate welfare, given out on a wink and a nod. It would be good to look into how many of these tax incentives go unused, not because they didnt “make enough to pay” but because they didnt keep their promises of how many JOBS were created.
These corporate welfare queens hold out their hands with their fingers crossed as they promise to create X number of jobs.
And then they proceed to create HALF that number. Pie in the sky? Why not make wild ass promises when there is little or no penalty for LYING?
And as for this:
“Lawmakers say they hope the audit will tell them whether they are hitting the mark with the eco-devo funds.”
Well DUHHHHH!!!! WTF do YOU Think? Look around the state and tell me how well this corporate welfare is working?
PT Barnum was RIGHT!
I realize this may not be on topic but I have (as always) been in communication with various persons who suffer at the hands of the corrupt 18th Judicial District.
There is currently a juvenile & domestic case where one of the parties has 1) been threatened with jail if they contact the press 2) been told by legal counsel they will have to leave Kansas when they prevail.
These persons from SG county are nothing more than criminals dressed as government & Court officials. I would alert these corrupt persons that this is America,not the Soviet Union. I am sure anyone who will not bow before the criminal bench is Sg county is threatened with the SG county gulag.
The day must come when SG county citizens stand against this corruption.
I rejoice that two of the four prime wrongful government actors in my ordeal now no longer are employed in their positions. Two down,two to go!