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Open thread 10/04
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Oct. 4, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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240 Comments
Amory Lovins has a great video clip:
http://www.rmi.org/
“How’s that graph look going back say, 10,000 or 100,000 years?”
Posted by: Max | October 03, 2007 at 09:32 PM
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/10/open-thread-1-2.html#comment-85062356
WHAT was Earth’s climate, sea level, etc “10,000 or 100,000 years” ago?
Would those conditions cause any agriculture, sea port, etc problems to humans on Earth today?
Not to mention all of the other animals, plants, etc that are living today…
Patrick nails it again!
September 28, 2007PJB: Is Belgium Breaking Up?posted by Linda
by Patrick J. Buchanan
All politics are local, said “Tip” O’Neill.
Not so. It is more true to say that all politics are tribal.
For the 1991 prediction of Arthur Schlesinger – “Ethnic and racial conflict, it now seems evident, will soon replace the conflict of ideologies as the explosive issue of our time” – has proven prophetic.
As Schlesinger was writing, the Soviet Union, a prison house of nations held together by the ideology of Marxism-Leninism, the Red Army, the KGB and the Communist Party, was disintegrating. Out of its carcass came 15 nations. Causes of secession: ethnicity and culture.
At the same time, Yugoslavia crumbled. Slovenes and Croats broke free of Belgrade, and Bosnia was beset by a civil-sectarian war of Croats, Serbs and Muslims. Macedonia seceded, then Montenegro. Now Kosovo, cradle of the Orthodox Serb people, but 90 percent Albanian and Muslim, is moving toward secession.
Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and the Soviet Union came apart, after becoming free, confirming what my late friend Sam Francis said: Multiracial, multiethnic, multilingual countries are held together either by an authoritarian regime or an ethnocultural core – as the English have held the United Kingdom together – or they come apart.
Today, we see agitation for secession by Scottish nationalists who wish to follow the Irish nationalists of the early 20th century out of the United Kingdom. Which bring us to the point of this column……http://buchanan.org/blog/?p=856
MPS,
Amory Lovins and RMI have done some excellent work. For more about Lovins, I suggest the three links in ‘Leading the Curve’ on the left side of page at,
http://www.rmi.org/
http://patriotledger.com/articles/2007/10/03/news/news01.txt
Another one of those “nothing to see here, move along” items that have been popping up so frequently since Mafia Boss GW “The Codpiece” Bush politically executed the guy who won in 2000 –
Military misinformation
—Pat Tillman: The Army Ranger was killed in 2004 by friendly fire in Afghanistan. The military initially said he died in a firefight with the enemy. Further reports showed that the bullets were placed too closely together to have been accidental fire . . .
—Jessica Lynch: The military initially said the former Army private fought until shooting her last round of ammunition when she was captured in 2003 in Iraq. She later said she was injured too badly to fight. The Army further claimed they had to fight their way in and out of the Iraqi hospital when in fact the local staff were nothing but cooperative.
—Patrick McCaffrey and Andre Tyson: Both were killed in 2004 by two Iraqi soldiers they were training. The military had said the deaths resulted from an insurgent ambush.
*****
But wait, there’s more:
GI to her family: Ask many questions if I die; ‘I made some enemies,’ Durkin said
By DIANA SCHOBERG and SUE SCHEIBLEThe Patriot Ledger
QUINCY – Ciara Durkin was home on leave last month and expressed a concern to her family in Quincy: If something happens to me in Afghanistan, don’t let it go without an investigation.
Durkin, 30, a specialist with a Massachusetts National Guard finance battalion, was found dead last week near a church at the Bagram Airfield in Afghanistan. She had been shot once in the head, the Army says.
Fiona Canavan, Durkin’s older sister, said today that when her sister was home three weeks ago, she told family members that she had come across some things that concerned her and had raised objections to others at the base.
”She was in the finance unit and she said, ‘I discovered some things I don’t like and I made some enemies because of it.’ Then she said, in her light-hearted way, ‘If anything happens to me, you guys make sure it gets investigated,”’ Canavan said. ”But at the time we thought it was said more as a joke.”
The family did not know what she was referring to, said Canavan, who lives in Quincy.
When her sister told the family three weeks ago about her concerns over her safety at the base, due to whatever information she had found out, Canavan said, ”we reported it to the Army.”
Canavan said that the offices of Sen. John Kerry and Edward Kennedy have been tremendously supportive in the ongoing investigation. U.S. Rep. William Delahunt has also been pressing the Pentagon for answers.
Other family members are coming in for Durkin’s funeral on Saturday at St. John the Baptist Catholic Church in Quincy, she said.
Kerry sent a letter to Secretary of Defense Robert Gates on Tuesday. It contained a list of questions he said were raised by Durkin’s family:
—Why had the family not gotten a response to its request for an independent autopsy?
—Why did the family not receive the results of the Army’s autopsy when it was told it would?
—Why had the Army not made Durkin’s will and other paperwork available to the family so they could plan her funeral?
Her family was initially told that Durkin was killed in action on Friday. But on Monday, the family learned that she died about 6:30 p.m. of a single gunshot wound to the head in a non-combat situation.
Durkin had been assigned to a finance unit at the base since February. Her tour of duty had been scheduled to end in February.
Her younger brother, Pierce Durkin, said that because of the nature of the wound and the fact that the shooting happened under ”curious” circumstances, the family decided to contact legislators.
The family was going through old photos of Ciara on Tuesday in preparation for the wake and funeral.
”She’s undoubtedly smiling in every one,” he said. ”It’s making it all so much more difficult.”
Durkin was born in Ireland and moved to the United States when she was 9 years old. The family lived first in Dorchester and later in Quincy.
She joined the Army National Guard in October 2005.
Join the military, kids.
If the terrorists don’t kill you, there’s always the inevitable “mysterious circumstance” . . .
Here’s a Rocky Mountain Institute clip with panelists representing a wide range of interesting perspectives of influential people including Thomas Friedman (The Earth is Flat), Rob Walton (COB Wal-Mart, world’s largest corporation), Bill Joy (world-renowned computer software and workstation pioneer, billionaire venture capitalist), James Woolsey (former CIA chief), Dean Kamen (prolific inventor, recipient of the National Medal of Technology), and others.
http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid41.php
Pretty cool! Don’t have time to watch the entire clip, but I just watched the first 10 minutes.
I really like when one of the panelist said, “politicians run campaigns on redistribution and nothing on a real policy of sustainability”.
That is so true! Big time true!
Join the military, kids.
If the terrorists don’t kill you, there’s always the inevitable “mysterious circumstance” . . .
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 02:30 AM
Well at least Capn doesn’t pretend anymore that he doesn’t hate the military.
How do you make the connection that Capn hates the the military Outie? I musta missed it.
George Orwell >>>
War is peace… Freedom is slavery… Ignorance is bliss…=========================
Hmmmm We gotta fight them over there so we dont have to fight them here… WOW….
We have to give up our rights, to make ourselves more FREE…. OK…
Let’s Veto SCHIP… So we can keep our children from getting the health care they need… REALLY DUMB….
Yep Orwell is alive and well at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue…
I was thinking about that young National Guard woman from Illinois… Shot once in the back of the head… in Iraq… After she told her family that if she ended up dead to contact authorities???
One shot to the back of the head… non combat situation…. Insurgent attack??? Friendly Fire??? or maybe Blackwater??
Hmmmm Wonder how the RW is going to spin this one???
Makes me wonder if Rush will call HER a phony soldier too??
Chas,
You forgot one that’s very important.
When I talk about war, I’m really talking about peace.
Chas:
I don’t know what happened to the young lady. Neither do you, neither does Capn. How ’bout we quit speculating and using her as a prop until we have some actual facts . . . . .
How about we DO speculate and keep the story alive in case someone is trying to bury it.
You know. Like they did with Pat Tilman?
“True, all Democrats in the military are not phony soldiers, but all phony soldiers seem to be Democrats.
If we are to believe the self-descriptions of callers to talk radio and the typical soldier interviewed on MSNBC, the military is fairly bristling with Moveon.org types.”– Anne Hart Coulter — Townhall.com
How come SHE gets to say it??? Why doesnt somebody go after this lying Wench???
Ooops sorry bout that Rox!!
“How come SHE gets to say it???”
Why not? Maybe it’s true.What would you suggest otherwise?Ban her from speaking?
GMC — She was shot in the back of the head — one shot… We KNOW that… and we KNOW it was non-combat related… You figure it out
OF course not Fleetie… but hold her accountable for what she says… She is a constant lier and is only out for making money, and a Republican Party shill…
For starters, Fleetie… There is NOTHING Communist about Hillary Clinton… Yet, Coulter keeps saying that defeating Clinton in 2008 is another defeat of Communism… even sells the T-shirt that says that!!
“There is NOTHING Communist about Hillary Clinton…”
We won’t count national healthcare or $5,000 for every baby born.How would you hold Coulter accountable?
fleetwood,
No–I mean the lying fascists that so-called “Americans” like you continue to bend over for.
Fleetie, if you would say something besides attacking the poster, maybe there could be discussion… as it is, I dont see that happening… So, I will ignore your post…
$5,000 for every baby born… Hmmmm — Sort of like a “sign on” bonus??? Great idea!!
Just how fast can values boy back pedal?
His last two columns suggest he is tired of being a republican shill. Yet if you look at his previous columns, EVERY one touts some gop talking point.
Buyers remorse? heheheheheh!
I guess here is where I should insert the “stinking dead chicken tied around your neck for eternity” comments.
But I tire of the games with this nut job. His backing away from the republican juggernaut he helped create is just so funny, and transparant, ANYONE should be able to see it without me pointing it out.
And his last two columns have all the sincerity, and irony, of cal freakin’ thomas whining about wanting more bipartisanship!
Is this the wingnut way of crying uncle?
hypocrisy, thy name is…
I mean, after all, all of these new babies being born now, are going to be paying for this insane war in Iraq long after those of us posting here are all dead and buried!! $5,000 head start money isnt all that bad!!
ksfarmgrrl,
You have a stronger stomach than I for the column where rotting Fundo spin goes to die.
And as for national health care, that isnt what it is being called… the term is Universal Health Care… And if you dont WANT it or NEED it, there is no mandate that you HAVE it!! I guess you can either pay for it in a fair share of taxes, or pay for it with handing out welfare money…
And btw, maybe the values one should explain what caused his apparant about face? What has caused his heated republican soul to grow cold? Dare I say it, has caused him to even be fearful of the government theocracy he and his created?
Do tell values boy, what caused this ephiphany, if it is, in fact real? Or is it just another superficial talking point? A temporary feint?
So tell us values boy. What happened on YOUR road to Damascus that MAY have caused you to see the light?
Phenobarbital anyone?
However, I suppose Fleettwood believes that if you cant afford health care, then you should just be willing to roll over and die, for the good of the country???
Yes CF. As a seasoned farmgrrl, I have a strong stomach for distasteful sights.
I can examine the rotting corpses of evil animals without retching, and I do so to determine the cause of death.
Oh yeah, and I also have an irresistable urge to rubber neck at bloody car wrecks. Like the one that seems to be occuring between the values shills, the theocrats, and the bush administration…
ksfarmgrrl,
CF2K, with age, has gradually surrendered his appetite for the gruesome spectacles that once delighted him.
But he’ll pull up a chair to watch the unravelling of the unholy alliance between the GOP money boys and the Fundos. Watching Fundos cry about getting punked never loses its attraction.
One sentence jumps out from Castillos’s crayon scrawl.
“Christians shouldn’t expect our views to be wholly reflected in the political arena.”
No of course not. They should pick and choose and parse their beliefs. THEN inflict them on society.
“Watching Fundos cry about getting punked never loses its attraction.”
Heheheheh. Thanks a LOT CF.
Now I have an image of a tearful jimmy swaggart in my mind.
Croc tears wont wash away the sins of the fundies.
Nor will it ease the pain of a public punking….
Ah, noise from The Great JR, Savior of the Blog, if not The World. How do you continue to squeeze that ego through this narrow bandwidth?
And proof once again of an old truth – if there’s political gain to be made, never let facts get in the way of a good story.
Why, JR? Why not speculate? Because, more than ever in the world of blogs and the net, God help us, the rumor, the inuendo, the speculation becomes fact and goes around the world. It gets reported by lazy reporters who don’t know fact from speculation, and it grows. The world’s attention then moves on to other stories, and the speculation/rumor BECOMES fact. The facts, if they are ever found, get buried on the 4th page, forgotten.
The family has already had to deny published reports that that they believe she was killed because she was a lesbian. And Chas has already started more rumors, here, halfway across the country, adding his own spin, perhaps unconsciously, to a newspaper account that itself is long on speculation and short on facts; it reports, in effect, that the family wants the truth. The story (I read it) said nothing about the cause or circumstances of her death except she was found dead by a single shot to the head. It even reports Sen. Kerry as making “no implications” in asking for the inquiry. It did not say, as Chas did, shot in the “back of the head” (read it again, Chas. I have. Twice). It may have been a random bullet. It may have been a sniper. It may have been ordinary, everyday crime; I’m sure it happens there too. It may have been a suicide. It may have been powerful enemies shutting her up. But WE DON’T KNOW, do we?
That won’t keep the professional agitators from spinning it, however.
And the truth, if it is ever known (and we may indeed never know) will be lost in the senseless yelling, buried in next week’s speculation.
But go on, JR. We know you can do no wrong. You are, after all, The Great JR, of which we should all be sore afraid. If anyone doubts same, just ask JR. He’ll tell you.
Gosh how you musta missed me GMC.All that because I advocate that a story not die until it’s told?
I know you just can’t quit me. But could you like find a second hobby?
Heh Captain.
I liked this part of the weekly values shilling:
“”We must avoid the temptation to use the power of government to perfect our society and its citizens,” wrote Dick Armey, former Republican House majority leader, on the Web site freedomworks.org.”
Armey also said:
“…I can assure you that every program or power we give government today in the name of our values can be turned against us when the day comes where a majority of Congress is hostile to us.”
I also loved THIS quote, and I think it just about says it all for the American taliban crowd.
“I can vote for big spenders, but not baby-killers. And if the Republicans are going to push me out of the tent, I’ll do my part to burn it down on the way out,” wrote Nathaniel Blake, a contributor to the conservative publication Human Events.”
Woof.
So much for Christian charity and stewardship of resources.
Since when did “scorched earth” become the fall back position of all these so called “godly” people?
WWJB? What would Jesus burn?
“Fleetie, if you would say something besides attacking the poster,…”
Pleased to be showing me where I have done that (today). It’s not there.
‘Scused me GMC… the story says it was a non-combat situation… And cause of death would APPEAR to be that shot to the head?? And YOU put the suicide spin on it, and warn others not to?? MY GOODNESS!!
Golly- The Bush FCC Might Actually Help CONSUMERS???
Well actually they are helping the big phone cos in the war vs cable TV but in the end we will all win. They should have banned the “exclusive” TV deals between cable and apartment owners LONG ago. It should be the choice of the tenants where they wish to get TV from. And the fact that a “kickback” is done from the cable company to the owner makes these deals questionable legally anyway.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2007-09-05-cable-fcc_N.htm#uslPageReturn
Ya know, I took one look at that woman’s picture, and I thought “lesbian for sure”. There is LOTS of homphobia in the military, sanctioned by the power structure.
I wonder who asked and who told?
And gmc, I thought a bullet to the forehead meant “combat killing” and a bullet to the back was an insurgency killing?
Dammit, I cant keep up with all the bushbots and their changing standards. Unfortunately, this soldier is dead, no matter if the bullet was to the front or the back.
Ramdom sniper? heheheheheh.
Hell, on another website, I read that the military also tried to spin this as a possible suicide!
OK, so I know lesbians are good at interesting positions, but even WE cant commit suicide with a bullet to the back of the head….
And isnt it the HEIGHT of irony that she was murdered near a church?
“Her family was initially told that Durkin was killed in action on Friday. But on Monday, the family learned that she died about 6:30 p.m. of a single gunshot wound to the head in a non-combat situation.”
“Her younger brother, Pierce Durkin, said that because of the nature of the wound and the fact that the shooting happened under ”curious” circumstances, the family decided to contact legislators.”=========================
GMC, I think the comment of her brother about the “nature of the wound” and the “curious” circumstances… is enough for MUCH speculation…
Not to mention that the original Army report said she was killed “in action” and later changed to a more accurate reporting…
Ummmm shades of Pat Tillman??
I’m speculating that Hillary Clinton is to blame. You figure it out Chas….
“x-files” theme music as I depart….
It looks like we may have another Ross Perot, Ralph Nader moment in 2008. Leading conservative Christians are talking about voting for a third-party pro-life candidate if Rudy is the GOP nominee.
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/10/_dobson_makes_it_official_religious_right_leaders_will_back_thirdparty_challenger_against_rudy.php
MPS,
Indeed. Time for a Fundo circular firing squad.
Wonder how this figures in Sam’s plans?
“Wonder how this figures in Sam’s plans?”
Perhaps he could be the one who says “ready… aim… FIRE”?
ksfarmgrrl, I knew you would like values boy op-ed piece today.
I say let them surrender and good riddance!
Surrender? Hell no. Never. Didnt you read the part where they are fixin’ to burn down the tent, and presumably the country, on their way down?
Standing by with the garden hose labeled freedom FROM religion….
Oh, and could they PUL-EEEZE fix the constitution and apologize to gay people BEFORE they pour the gasoline and light the match?
GMC, I found this and thought you’d be one to fully appreciate Professor Turley’s op-ed piece given his well-known stance on other issues, all (no matter on what side of the argument one is on) with any interest at all in the Second Amendment cases which appear headed for SCOTUS might take a moment or two to read it.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/10/a-liberals-lame.html
Actually, I can kinda respect the
exodus of the religious right from the GOP. Disagree with them as much as I do, it’s good to see them get the fact that the GOP has only been using them.
Not so values boy.
“Wait! Come back! We’ll put in some of the New Testament stuff too!
We’re gonna get to the Old Testament stuff. Honest!”
I thought the Republican version of poor white trash was in rehab, she’s written another book —- she looks more anorexic than ever ——— and the whine could break glass ……
Thought this was an interesting view on the issue of “values voters”.
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/georgetown/2007/10/message_to_mitt_fred_and_john.html
Folks -
1) There is NO mention of “back” of the head – or front, or side, or top. YOU DON’T KNOW, Chad. The comments and questions call for investigation, not speculation. Or don’t you know the difference?
2) I didn’t raise the lesbian issue – it’s in the story. READ IT. It makes the point of the dangers of speculation, however.
3) Non-combat – meaning she was not out of base, engaged in operations. Beyond that, WE DON’T KNOW.
You all have your own agenda, and you’re using this young lady to push it. But YOU DON’T KNOW much at all. And that’s the point. How ’bout we simply wait until we have FACTS? Sheesh.
And JR, you set yourself up for that one. Don’t portray yourself as the savior of us all, and you won’t get the grief.
I guess ya gotta take the bad with the good, the sour with the sweet and pearls with the swine. In the Eagle I mean.
Stellar artistry today Mr. Crowson. Well said.
Project much there GMC?
Geez why don’t you ask for a thread about me? Or you? Or me and you?
JR,
Indeed: Crowson NAILS ‘em.
http://kansas.com/599/image_media/191295.html
Todd’s staff must be fuming. Watch for a grandiose hissy fit and an outpouring of self-justification.
I agree with GMC on the young woman who died to a bullet to the head.
Hard to say what actually happened without more information.
There was a case while I was in the military where some guy was shot in the chest at firing range. It came out there was a grudge between him and the range master.
It turned out that it was the weapon of the victim that was the culprit. Evidently, the weapon had fallen over and the bullet traveled into the side of his chest penetrating his heart.
It was a case where the carelessness of the victim cost him his life.
As in this case, it’s too early to speculate. If it’s foul play, I’ll condemn it. If it’s an accident it’s tragic and if it’s undetermined then I have to accept it, but with questions why it was undetermined.
People who pre-judge remind me of the TV Westerns and the old lynch mobs that formed when they did exactly that, pre-judge.
I especially like the little dog in the lower left of today’s Crowson.
I was going to write Crowson and ask him about that dog as I’ve seen it in several cartoons he made.
I’ve seen a photo of Crowson with a similar looking dog that was his pet and wondering if it was the pet?
There was a syndicated cartoonist that used to do the same thing with some black and white sketch character always commenting about the captions or the cartoon in general. Darned if I can remember who it was though.
“wondering if it was the pet?”
I think the dog in the cartoon is the one who died a few years ago.
Let’s pray for the Heros.
“One of two Boston firefighters who died fighting a fire in a Chinese restaurant in late August was legally intoxicated at the time, and the other had cocaine in his system, two officials said yesterday.”
Durkin recently told her family that if anything happened to her, investigate. She worked in finance…must have found something big.
Let’s pray for the Heros.
“One of two Boston firefighters who died fighting a fire in a Chinese restaurant in late August was legally intoxicated at the time, and the other had cocaine in his system, two officials said yesterday.”
Posted by: fleettwood | October 04, 2007 at 11:22 AM
Wow fleet, why would you post something so mean? They’re dead, fer crissake! How much more do you want them punished?
So do you plan to protest at their funeral? Take your friends the Phelps Clan with you?
“Wow fleet, why would you post something so mean?”
Mean? Pray for the Heros is mean?
Geez why don’t you ask for a thread about me? Or you? Or me and you?
Posted by: J R | October 04, 2007 at 10:06 AM
Wishful thinking on your part JR. I thought you seemed a little lite in your loafers.
fleet -
re: pray for the Heros . . .
Just what is the purpose of that? Is there a reason you posted this quote? What are you trying to say?
I gotta side with XXX on this one. That’s uncalled for.
“re: pray for the Heros . . .”
Then don’t pray for them. I don’t care.
I was gonna tell you to take it up with GMC Pat.And there he is. Get a room.
By the way? When I want your attention, I’ll yell “here girl!”.
Fleetie? That gets you nomination for worst poster on the blog. I’d ask what you were thinking if I didn’t know better.
Let’s pray for the Heros.
“One of two Boston firefighters who died fighting a fire in a Chinese restaurant in late August was legally intoxicated at the time, and the other had cocaine in his system, two officials said yesterday.”
Posted by: fleettwood | October 04, 2007 at 11:22 AM
I do not condone working or driving while intoxicated. I do not condone cocaine usage at all.
Not only does such actions put the firefighters at risk, it puts their families at risk, and it puts everyone else on the firescene at risk. Nobody I know as a rescuer condones such behavior. But my question is, why are you posting it? What relevance to any of the topics being posted? Are you a responder? No. I know better than that. SO what is your motive?
I suppose one could take fleettwood’s post several ways.
Pray for the heroes could mean what I think fleettwood meant that although they had a substance abuse problem, they were still heroes.
One thing about posting on the Internet, you can never see the expression on someone’s face nor know what’s in their mind.
Speculation is just that, speculation.
Hey, JR, I didn’t come back claiming to be God’s gift to the Blog. You did. Wanna see the quote? The arrogance just drips from it.
Ya get what you play for. You made yourself the target. And I’m not the only one who noticed.
And for snappy comebacks? (note the trademark non-question question mark) you’ll have to better than “I am rubber, you are glue . . .
There’s little that is more fun than targeting those who choose to put themselves on a pedestal. You can step down, however, to us mere mortals. Your call.
But if it makes you feel better, I’ll let you alone. For now.
;-)
All the Heros need our prayers. Even those two.
Let the air outta yourself council. Ewvery one of your posts save one is directed at me. All I’m giving you back is reply fire.What did you do with yourself while I was away?
Wasn’t JR one of the heros to save the world?
In Latest Poll, Good News for Both ClintonsSenator Has 8-Point Lead Over Giulianihttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/03/AR2007100302036.html?hpid=topnews
Hey Max,Looks like your screaming, foot stamping, and bed-wetting about Hillary’s campaign finance is working! (NOT)
Know what’s really funny?
You repubs are gonna get whupped by a girl.
You repubs are gonna get whupped by a girl.
Posted by: XXX | October 04, 2007 at 11:47 AM
That’s not a sexist remark…naw…
:D
I didn’t yell “here girl!”
Yeah Pat I’m a hero. I got a cape (wanna hold it?) and everything. AND I had Wheaties for breakfast.
Thanks for changing the subject X I Americans currently view the top four Republican candidates in equally or even more negative terms. Forty-four percent said they definitely would not vote for Giuliani, while 45 percent said the same of Sen. John McCain (Ariz.). More than half of all Americans said they definitely would not vote for former senator Fred D. Thompson of Tennessee (54 percent) or former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney
From XXX’s link…
Wow who’s left?
VT -
Mr. Turley is right, and I don’t agree with him a lot.
And I’ve consistently said so. One cannot read the 2nd Am. consistently with the rest of the Bill of Rights, and with an understanding of the writings of the Framers and their intent and philosophical positions (specifically Natural Rights and the concept of what we now call the Social Contract – with a hat tip to CF), and reach any other conclusion.
We may disagree over the same sorts of “time place manner” restrictions we all recognize for the 1st Amendment, for example, but the fundamental meaning of the 2nd is clear for anyone who honestly wants to look.
To claim otherwise is to simply be willfully ignorant at best, disingenuous at worst. If you don’t like it, change it. Good luck.
Agree with you, GMC, on your Second Amendment position and the fact that there will be disagreement with “time, place and manner” restrictions. I don’t agree with the professor many times myself, but I found his “lament” remarkable, and felt you would as well (given the author).
I liked that article Vaughn, not that I’m a gun owner. I’m more of a gun store as none of them have been fired in thirty or more years. :)
The key statement in that article to me was the admission by the writer.
“It is hard to read the Second Amendment and not honestly conclude that the Framers intended gun ownership to be an individual right.”
er gun store = gun storer
Fleett… Did you ever consider that if those two firefighters werent drunk and high on the job, that MAYBE they wouldnt have been killed??? I still dont much see the point to what you posted about Heroes… I dont consider anybody drunk and high on the job as a hero of anything….
Crowson did have a good cartoon today. The dog in his cartoons are a sketch of a dog he used to own. This dog was born into a puppy mill and had kind of a sad life as a result. The dog died a few years ago and Crowson wrote a touching eulogy for the dog.
One well known cartoonist who has a small figure commenting on the cartoon is Pat Oliphant – I think he was the first to do this. It is a rather common technique now.
…IS a sketch…
You may recall that when the letter from the Sergeants and Specialist in Iraq was written, I made the statement “I hope they were aboard the jet heading home when they released it, or they might face a fate like Tillman”. How many is it that have died in the short time they’re letter was published? How many suicide missions were they sent on afterwords? The military has a way of taking care of their “Phoney Soldiers”.
Yea, Crowson does a real good job of portraying those against SCHIP as being anti-child.
Almost intellectual. Good thing he is a cartoonist.
I still think that each of his cartoons should either get it’s own blog entry or a least a comments section in the main paper. A blog entry would be best. Then he could see who agrees/disagrees with him and what type of people they are with their other views.
Wouldn’t you think the Righties would be all behind the $5,000 bond for a newborn, as I would introduce a financial incentive not to have an abortion? I guess they must not be thinking things through.
GOP Rallying call for 2008:
“Suffer the little children!”
Sell it you greedy bastards.
Wrong Phantom. The right to life is a right all people should have independent of any “financial incentive”. Thankfully your Momma didn’t need any financial incentive to keep you around.
Heck, I say let the libs abort their spawn all they like. Anything to help rid the country of that vermin.
“I dont consider anybody drunk and high on the job as a hero of anything….”
It doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be prayed for.
Chas-
“Cahill, 55, and Payne, 53, were among the first firefighters to enter the Tai Ho Mandarin and Cantonese Restaurant on Centre Street in West Roxbury on Aug. 29. Cahill was on the lead end of a fire hose, heading into the kitchen, and Payne, who was responsible for helping with a preliminary search for victims, was in the kitchen, when the roof in the kitchen exploded downward, fire officials have said. Payne was killed instantly in a massive fireball. Cahill probably died from either a heart attack or suffocation, they said.”
From the Boston paper
Please explain how being drunk or having ‘trace” amounts of cocaine contributed to their deaths.
Please explain what you know about anything.
This was a tragedy. It is even more of a tragedy that their actions will probably keep their families from claiming PSOB life insurance benefits. Were they heroes? Yeah, day in and day out. THey did was most people flee from. Did they screw up? massively
GOP Rallying call for 2008:”Suffer the little children!”Sell it you greedy bastards.Posted by: J R
Actually, that is the democrats crybaby rallying call.
Conservatives know there is not enough money to fund huge entitlement programs:
Socialized Medicine5000 bucks per baby
Instead of teaching our children to expect a handout from birth, why not teach them that money comes from hard W.O.R.K., and is something that must be E.A.R.N.E.D..
As I expected, Sen. Craig’s motion to withdraw his guilty plea has been overruled by the Minnesota judge; what I want to know is why the order is 27 pages.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/04/craig.arrest/index.html
Richardson should be president, but I predict he’ll be Petes replacement instead.http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071004/pl_nm/usa_politics_richardson_dc_1;_ylt=Att_Es5r3JCjgPdzwUi0apxlM3wV
Hard work will never give you returns like marketing paper. You must be a RINO.
More information from the Department of Pulling Numbers Right out of Your Ass.
“While wealthier nations tend to have more contented citizens overall, living in a less wealthy nation does not preclude a high level of personal satisfaction; indeed, Mexicans emerge as the most personally satisfied public in the latest Pew Global Attitudes survey — 76% rate their current life at least a seven on a scale of 10.”
76% are probably being sent American dollars.
Hip Hip HOORAY!! Socialized Medicine failed. And it won’t pass a vetooooooooooooooooo!
HE-HE HA-HA HO-HO
Sad day to be a lib.. Here they had an empty hand stretched forth while their mouths were screaming “GIMMEE”!
Put you hands in your pocket and cry.
“Hey brother, can you spare FREE HEALTHCARE?”
Get a job wino!
“Hey, brother. I’ve got a house payment and two car payments. Can you spare some free health care for my kids? It’s about the children, after all, isn’t it?”
A good column re the rapid loss of Arctic sea ice, and other natural climate feedbacks.’A Swiftly Melting Planet’http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/04/opinion/04homer-dixon.html
“When warming becomes its own cause, we might not be able to stop extremely harmful climate change no matter how much we cut our greenhouse gas emissions. We need a far more aggressive global response to climate change.”
HT to http://www.desmogblog.com/homer-dixon-time-to-mobilize-for-survival-now
Also,
‘Cities must adapt to warming’http://www.mapleridgenews.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=46&cat=23&id=1076536&more=0
“Many B.C. cities are planning to cut greenhouse gas emissions but most are failing to adequately prepare for the real and unavoidable impacts of climate change, according to futurist and author Thomas Homer-Dixon.”
National health care is coming.
It is coming because it is the right thing to do. The fact that some misreants have not evolved to beyond the alligator brain will not stop it. Nor will we wait for evolution. No this will be legislated. bush just accelerated that. The side benefit is that while the GOP is in the wilderness for the next 25 years, lots of other things that have needed attention will be addressed. Oh you won the battle.
We’ll win the war.
As I expected, Sen. Craig’s motion to withdraw his guilty plea has been overruled by the Minnesota judge; what I want to know is why the order is 27 pages.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/04/craig.arrest/index.html
Posted by: Vaughn Tolle | October 04, 2007 at 02:08 PM
Analysis of the 27 pages:
Craig: But your honor…Judge: I said no.Craig: If will…Judge: No means NoCraig: I submitted that I was intimidated into accepting the plea…Judge: What part of “no” are you not understanding.Craig: I just went in there to use the restroom.Judge: IndeedCraig: Honest your honor!Judge: No doubt, but you accepted the charges. So, no…Craig: Your honor…Judge: Bailiff, get me the shoe restraint.Craig: No! anything but that!Judge: Alright, but please restrain yourself and stop playing footsie with the court reporter.Craig: Okay. May I approach the bench?Judge: Okay, but keep your feet to yourself.Craig: I promise.Judge: ApproachCraig: (whispering) May I show you what I did in there?Judge: Back away from me now or I will have you bound and gagged.Craig:; I brought my own ropes…Judge: Bailiff!Craig: No! Not the shoe restraints!
Dragged screaming from the courtroom, Craig could be heard screaming, “I’ll get you for this! I’ll run again for the Senate! And I’m going to put my foot up your…(doors to court room slam shut.)
Later on, the Judge retired to his chambers and discussing the case with the Prosecuting Attorney.
Judge: “I think Craig thinks I’m a rhadamanthine.”Prosecuting Attorney: “Possibly, but res ipsa loquitur, Judge, res ipsa loquitur.”Judge: “Let’s not talk about things for awhile, okay?”Prosecuting Attorney: Okay, fine. How about some golf next Saturday, I have some new golf shoes I want to break in.Judge: (peers over the top of his bifocals)
Some have said that $5,000 gift to all newborns would be a nice gesture to show how much the country cares for them.
And it will be so nice to give the children a $20 TRILLION National Debt too.
Happy Birthday! Oh, and here’s the bill – you pay it kid!
“Bailiff, Whack his pee pee”
All I care about is Global Warming.
That ice! Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
“Some have said that $5,000 gift to all newborns…”
Why only $5,000? Let’s go for it! It’s for the children!
Add some zeros.
It’s for the children!
Larry Craig intends to stay the fight!!
Oh this is the gift that keeps on giving!
Larry Craig (R)eally really not gay
Domenici is quitting! Another Senate R seat in play!
“National health care is coming.”
Perhaps, JR. Whether it’s wise is another matter. If you want to know how gov’t would do with running health care, lets look at the health care they do run. VA has a huge health care bureaucracy – how are they doing?
Yea – health care brought to you by the same people who brought you FEMA and the $800 hammer.
Great. Just great.
Remember the story of the three big lies?
When the gov’t man says “I’m here to help,” run for your life.
WASHINGTON — Sen. Pete Domenici will announce that he will end his career in the Senate next year after 36 years of service to New Mexico.
XFILES QUOTE on how funding for secret programs for Alien Life investigation and coverup was acquired…
“You really don’t think we paid for the $800 hammer by accident do you?
JUST IN
Senator (is this stall taken?) Craig just announced he will remain in the Senate and continue to fight his plea of guilty.
I remember a list going around several years ago of the criminal records of the Congress then — didn’t have names just charges / convictions — was a list of like 125? Gonna see what the new one might look like — can’t look better now?
And we select these folks —- we need a aptitude / literacy test or something in order to vote …
“Larry Craig (R)eally really not gay.”
Posted by fleet
Well, I imagine you of all people should know, what with your penchant for foot signals in public toilets. What he do, use the wrong one?
Oh THIS will be an interesting bit of political theatre.
Does the GOP let Craig stay of do they knee cap him?
Delicious!
side bar
Sen Craig claims that Idaho can’t afford to lose his important positions on several committees — except he resigned those and the Republicans have accepted his resignation …..
Ok when did our government become a sitcom?
“Ok when did our government become a sitcom?”
You’re just now noticing? It has ALWAYS been so. For decades, at least, under both parties.
It’s just that now we have a 24 hour news maw that must be fed.
Larry Craig isn’t gay, yeah right , my foot. OOPS!!!!
“Well, I imagine you of all people should know,…”
Are you saying that being gay is wrong? Shame on you!
Thanks GMC
… hmmmm it’s not news, it’s reality TV, and we get to pick which reality we want — I pick the golf channel, Bravo, Travel Channel (I lust in my heart after Samantha Brown), and for news the comedy channel
Say GMC, under that Social Contract concept, are the people giving up a certain amount of Freedom in exchange for a certain benefit of having Government control certain aspects of our society?
And if so, as we increase the number of Government programs, we are giving up more Freedom in exchange for even more Government regulation and control?
HillaryCare will supposedly provide some benefit, but we lose choices as to what treatments will be covered by insurance, how much we pay for premiums, who we pay premiums to, who our health insurance provider is, who our doctor is, etc…
Like with Social Security. We agree (I don’t, but it is law) to give up 15.3% of our income for Social Security/Medicare, in exchange for some benefit we are promised to receive IF we live to age 62.
Speaking of victimized firemen and public sodomy, four British firemen have been severely disciplined for shining their flashlights on 4 sodomites in a criminal act of public outdoor sodomy near a public toilet on the night of June 27, as they were on their way to their Bristol fire station. One of the criminal sodomites complained that he was embarrassed by their flashlights, and therefore a victim of homophobia, although the firemen did not accost the criminals after determining what the illegal activity was, but continued to their fire station. The 4 firemen were suspended with pay for 3 months during the homophobia investigation, 2 were fined 1000 pounds, another demoted, and another given a written warning. They were then transferred to other fire stations and ordered into pro-sodomy indoctrination, and furthermore banned from discussing the sodomy incident.No action was taken against the criminals engaging in public sodomy on public property.
A new study, “The Breast Cancer Epidemic: Modeling and Forecasts Based on Abortion and Other Risk Factors,” was done by Patrick S. Carroll of London-based research institute PAPRI and the results were published in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons this week. It shows, that among risk factors, abortion is the “best predictor of breast cancer.”
Abortion’s breast cancer risk has been proven and well known for decades, but the abortion industry often prevents the inclusion of such information in informed consent, if any informed consent at all is being offered in abortion mills, a clear violation of ethics.Conversely, women who bear children at a young age reduce their risk of breast cancer significantly.
Well it turns out the democrats are not one iota better than republicans at doing their job.
Here we sit in fiscal year 2008 and our government is functioning under a CONTINUING RESOLUTION.
There goes my vote for Nancy Boyda down the toilet.
Throw the rascals out!
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/LearnToBudget/WhyJoeSixPackCantGetAhead.aspx
It’s official.
Statistics prove that hard work does NOT PAY.
The average worker gets a raise every year but has less money to spend. Why? Inflation and health insurance costs gobble up the raise — and more.
by Scott Burns
I’d like to say a few words about the futility of work.
I’m serious.
Take a look around. Today, we’re all 24/7, strutting with BlackBerrys and Bluetooths, miles from the long-lost desk and office, not to mention home. At the risk of being rude, I’m wondering if all this frenzied effort pays off.
. . . . It’s time for Joseph Vineyard, the trendy guy who eats free-range chicken, to meet Joe Six-Pack.
If you look at the averages, the statistics give a simple message: Hard work does not equate to economic progress. It hasn’t for decades. We may need hard work to keep body and soul together — not to mention pay the Visa bill — but average-worker paychecks clearly show that inflation continues to trump wage gains for most American workers.
This is not a recent problem. Twenty years ago I wrote a column titled “The coming war between generations.” It showed that the average worker had lost ground to inflation from 1970 to 1987. The same worker was also losing ground to retirees because the average retiree Social Security benefit was also rising faster than workers’ wages.
Since workers pay the bills for Social Security recipients, that’s not a healthy situation.
The situation got worse over the next nine years. Workers’ wages grew slower than inflation in all but one of the nine years from 1988 through 1996, sometimes by a lot. In 1990, for instance, workers’ wages rose 3.3%, but the rate of inflation was 5.4%.
And, again, the average retiree’s Social Security check grew faster than the average worker’s paycheck in seven of the same nine years. (Workers did better than retirees in two years, 1994 and 1996.)
Surely the past 10 years have been better, right?
Yes, but only slightly. The percentage of increase in the average worker’s wages has been larger than the percentage of increase in the average retiree’s benefit check in all but two of the past 10 years, 2004 and 2005.
When it comes to the battle against inflation, the score isn’t quite so good. Inflation has trumped wage gains in four of the last 10 years — 2001, 2003, 2004 and 2005.
Unfortunately, that isn’t the end of the story.
Health-care crunch
Both workers and retirees have the cost of health insurance deducted from their paychecks. Medicare premiums are subtracted from the paychecks of retirees. Medicare part B premiums rose more than 100% from 1997 to 2006, soaring from $43.80 a month to $88.50. (Today, they range from $93.50 to $162.10, depending on household income.)
Workers had a similar experience with private insurance. In 1997 the average worker earned $431.86 a week. By June 2007 the average worker’s paycheck was $589.52 a week, an increase of 36.5%. Over the same period inflation went up 33.7%.
That leaves a real gain of about 1.8%, or $10.61 a week. How much do you want to bet that all of that gain, and then some, has gone to higher health-insurance premiums and higher co-pays? I’m confident that the after-health-insurance income of workers and retirees has declined over the last 10 years. Indeed, it probably hasn’t improved in a generation.
That’s a long time to push a rock up a hill, only to have it roll back down.
That’s why Joseph Vineyard needs to start thinking about Joe Six-Pack. So far, Joe has coped quite well. If old enough, he has retired and enjoyed a tax-free check that rises faster than his old paycheck most of the time. That’s a lot better than working, and it tells us a lot about why people retire at 62.
If younger, he has refinanced his house to provide the spending power he couldn’t find in his paycheck, no matter how hard he worked.
But the easy borrowed money just ended for everyone.
What does it all mean?
Simple. We face two fundamental issues: health-care costs and average paychecks. Until one goes down and the other goes up, we’ve got a problem.
Published Sept. 26, 2007
Hey Ken, stay away from Samantha.
She’s mine.
(in my dreams)
All those free-marketeerians who believe that all you have to do to succeed these days is just “work harder,” the evidence prove you wrong.
Now if you can score some billion dollar government contracts like Halliburton did when Cheney was CEO, you can make yourself a multi-millionaire without working at all.
Just pick up the phone and jaw for a few minutes. Make 36 million dollars for six months work.
“Statistics prove that hard work does NOT PAY.”
Isn’t that the slogan of the DNC?
I guess the DNC has two slogans.Go figure.
“All those free-marketeerians who believe that all you have to do to succeed these days is just “work harder,” the evidence prove you wrong.”
No, BDP, the slogan of the RNC, is “we make the rich, richer.”
The slogan of the DNC is “we’re all in this together.”
The DNC/Homer Simpson slogan:”Trying is only the first step to failure.”
Max:
I don’t argue that health care falls under any sort of social contract. The social contract traded away some natural rights to the State for the State’s guarantee that it would protect other fundamental rights. At its most basic, I gave up the right to go beat the *&$% out of my neighbor who stole my bicycle; in turn, I expect the State, through a justice system to mete out justice for me. I also get in turn the protection the State that my neighbor will not beat me. Justice moves from rule by the strong to, hopefully, rule according to law. That’s highly simplified, of course.
Gov’t providing health care, or any number of other things, has little to do with any social contract. It’s simply a political choice, nothing else; if enough people want it, and are willing to pay for it, gov’t will do it. It’s democracy in action. Just remember that all those gov’t “services” cost real dollars.
And yes, that always intrudes on freedom. That’s so simply because gov’t programs cost money taken through taxes. And in a very real sense, that is where freedom is quite real, daily. For most people, most of the time, economic freedom is the freedom that impacts them most.
It’s always a tradeoff. How much freedom of choice, and dollars out of pocket, are you willing to pay to get X benefit.
Parkay,provide a link to this so-called “study”.
So, as a country we have made little progress in take home pay. Considering globalization, if we are holding our own that is pretty darn good. And better than almost anywhere in the world.
But don’t let “woe is we” articles like that discourage you personally folks. All bitching and no answers. Not even suggestions.
And it has nothing to do with your own situation. The opportunity is there for the taking in this country.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/email/idUKYAT72246420071001
Remember all the former talking-points of why we must stay in Iraq?
Things will get better when they
– have a constitution?
– hold an election?
– get rid of Saddam?
– eliminate the “dead-enders” in their “death throes, if you will”?
– “stand up so we can stand down”?
Those, having all failed miserably, the new talking point is that “we can’t pull out because then it will be a bloodbath!”
Oh, really . . .
Check it out:
Iraqis say Basra quieter after British troop pulloutMon Oct 1, 2007 3:12pm BSTBy Aref Mohammed
BASRA, Iraq (Reuters) – Residents of Iraq’s southern city of Basra have begun strolling riverfront streets again after four years of fear, their city much quieter since British troops withdrew from the grand Saddam Hussein-era Basra Palace.
Political assassinations and sectarian violence continue, some city officials say, but on a much smaller scale than at any time since British troops moved into the city after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion.
Mortar rounds, rockets and small arms fire crashed almost daily into the palace, making life hazardous for British and Iraqis alike in Iraq’s second-largest city. To many Basrans the withdrawal of the British a month ago removed a proven target.
“The situation these days is better. We were living in hell … the area is calm since their withdrawal,” said housewife Khairiya Salman, who lives near the palace.
Civil servant Wisam Abdul Sada agreed. “We do not hear the sounds of explosions which were shaking our houses and terrifying our women and children,” he told Reuters.
“But this [continuing violence]has nothing to do with the British withdrawal. All that changed after the British troops left was that bombardment of the palace stopped.”
Others described their departure from the palace as “a wish come true”.
“Their presence was annoying and provocative most of the time,” said Mehdi Obaid, a 39-year-old civil servant.
The pullout will lead to a planned reduction in British forces to about 5,000. Britain has already handed over security command for three other southern provinces to Iraqi forces.
Yeah, just look at outlander.
A frickin’ Bill Gates in the making . . .
Slogans!!!! Don’t kid yourself. The slogan of BOTH parties is:
“We want to get elected – now who do I pander to to do it?”
The only real differences is in their extreme bases, but both must appeal to the same vast group of voters to win, voters not part of any political base, who can be swayed (or bought) election to election.
Well Folks, Larry Craig lost his bid to withdraw his guilty plea, but he’s announced that he’s staying on until 2008. That’s the latest version anyway. I always wondered how he managed that “wide stance” with his pants around his ankles. Guess it’s easier to do if you’re a lame duck!
Outlander writers, but don’t let “woe is we” articles like that discourage you personally folks. All bitching and no answers.
WRONG again, outlander.
This is a direct result of our politicians engaging in welfare for the rich and stabbing the one institution in this country who can level the playing field–UNIONS–in the back.
The American Cancer Society says:
“Research studies, however, have not found a cause-and-effect relationship between abortion and breast cancer.”
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_6x_Can_Having_an_Abortion_Cause_or_Contribute_to_Breast_Cancer.asp
“I always wondered how he managed that “wide stance” with his pants around his ankles.”
What is this? Open season on gay people? Not cool.
Leave it F-wood to not have the brain-power to distinguish between gays and hypocrites.
It’s open season on HYPOCRITES, F-wood.
Look it up.
A great (and funny) analysis of Russert, and our dysfuntional corporate-picked, multimillionaire, “Raccoons”.
‘AND YOU DON’T MESS AROUND WITH TIM! Clinton tugged on Superman’s cape—and the Raccoons swung into action: ‘http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh100407.shtml
(Starts 1/2 way down page, also other links)
“Look it up.”
I just did. I’ve always wondered what you looked like. Did you pay for that haircut?
“It’s official.
Statistics prove that hard work does NOT PAY.”
You are correct. Hard work alone does not pay. Some of the hardest work I ever did paid the least. You must work hard AND smart.
Big deal. This is a truism that I taught to me children years ago. Generally speaking, the harder the work (at least physically) the less money you will make. Learn to work smart, or work for peanuts. Anybody can be taught, in a minimal amount of time, to flip hamburgers, use a shovel, whatever. You only get paid more as you move into an area where the demand is greater than the supply, where they cannot find someone off th street, give them 40 hours training, and do what you do.
Fleetie,Larry boy isn’t gay, didn’t you hear him?
“Anybody can be taught, in a minimal amount of time, to flip hamburgers, use a shovel, whatever.”
What is this? Open season on Union “workers”? Not cool.
The one thing about your absolutely idiotic posts that never ceases to satify, Fleettwood, is being secure in the knowledge that the people you vote for and lionize wouldn’t give you the time of day if your life depended on it.
“…that the people you vote for and lionize wouldn’t give you the time of day if your life depended on it.”
OH SNAP! You are on fire today.
All those free-marketeerians who believe that all you have to do to succeed these days is just “work harder,” the evidence prove you wrong.
Now if you can score some billion dollar government contracts like Halliburton did when Cheney was CEO, you can make yourself a multi-millionaire without working at all.
Just pick up the phone and jaw for a few minutes. Make 36 million dollars for six months work.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 04:08 PM
So, quit working and make more.
The slogan of the DNC is “we’re all in this together.”
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 04:10 PM
The Socialist is like an ex-wife, they both say the same thing.
“What’s mine is mine, and what’s yours is mine.”
All in this together, right.
I agree BDP.
Having facts and the wit to use them gives me a terribly unfair advantage.
Having facts and the wit to use them gives me a terribly unfair advantage.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 04:54 PM
…as toilet paper
Max, you are beyond reasoning with.
But for those who aren’t idiots, here’s what FDR said:
“But while they prate of economic laws, men and women are starving. We must lay hold of the fact that economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings.”
“In our personal ambitions we are individualists. But in our seeking for economic and political progress as a nation, we all go up or else all go down as one people.”
“Selfishness is the only real atheism; aspiration, unselfishness, the only real religion.”
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
And yes, that always intrudes on freedom. That’s so simply because gov’t programs cost money taken through taxes. And in a very real sense, that is where freedom is quite real, daily. For most people, most of the time, economic freedom is the freedom that impacts them most.
It’s always a tradeoff. How much freedom of choice, and dollars out of pocket, are you willing to pay to get X benefit.
Posted by: GMC70 | October 04, 2007 at 04:20 PM
There are many problems with Socialism. One problem is that those on the receiving end are gaining economic freedom, while those on the giving end are losing economic freedom. (If you can call being dependent on government or anyone else – freedom)
That is the primary cause of the great divide in this country, in my opinion.
And unfortunately, I see the problem getting worse as baby boomers like me retire, there will be an even greater strain on a country that is becoming more Socialist every day.
I hate to see an economic war between the generations, and an econcomic war between the Capitalists and the Socialists, but that’s the direction I see us going.
If those with the money paid the correct wages and weren’t so greedy, we could ALL have economic freedom. But it doesn’t work that way does it Max.
So my choice is government or business? I choose government. I can fire them.
Max writes, “I hate to see an economic war between the generations, and an econcomic war between the Capitalists and the Socialists.”
He also sees a war between gun owners and the Hillary Clinton administration who will try to confiscate all guns.
How about bass fishermen and trout fishermen, Max?
Beatles fans or Beach Boys fans?
Apple users and PC users?
Just unbelievable.
parkay uses some interesting ‘publication’.
“The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a politically conservative association of physicians, medical professionals and students, patients and others,[1] founded in 1943. ”
Basically anyone can be published there providing it’s conservative enough.
“A 1966 article in the New York Times described the organization as an “ultra-right-wing… political-economic rather than medical” group, and asserted that historically some of its leaders had been members of the John Birch Society.[6][7] Currently, the organization opposes mandatory vaccination,[8] universal health care[9] and government intervention in healthcare.[10] The AAPS has characterized the effects of the Social Security Act of 1965, which established Medicare and Medicaid, as “evil” and “immoral”,[11] and encouraged members to avoid participating in Medicare and Medicaid.[12][13] AAPS believes that there is no right to medical care, and opposes efforts to implement a national health plan.[14] The organization also opposes the use of evidence-based medicine and practice guidelines as a usurpation of physician autonomy.AAPS opposes abortion[16] and over-the-counter access to emergency contraception.[17][15]“
“correct wages”
PMom,
Just exactly what would be the correct wage?
Does the guy a MacDonald’s make the same as the Plumber?
How about a teacher with a Bachelor’s degree and a Professor with a PhD. Both get the same salary?
Does an EMT in a town of 1000, get paid the same as the EMT who lives in New York City?
Just how would you regulate this same pay?
Apple users and PC users?
Just unbelievable.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 05:31 PM
Rush Limbaugh uses an Apple Computer.
These are great words…”If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.”—John F. Kennedy.
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 05:06 PM
And that’s the arrogance of a Liberal Socialist Democrat, FDR being the founder.
What’s all this “our” and “we” crap about?
It’s “me” working every day, not “you”.
It’s “my” money being taken away every day, not “yours”.
And how smart and arrogant of the Government and the elitists to assume Government can decide who has too much, and who has too little.
“paid the correct wages”
What is the “correct wages?” And more important, who should decide that?
—–
And yes, JR, in a real sense, that is the choice. But believing you can fire gov’t is illusion. You can’t. Not the daily gov’t that on a day to day basis you deal with. They are permanent, no matter which party sits at the top. And their methods and goals never change.
Don’t think so? Try to “fire” the lady at the DMV. Good luck.
You can fire business. Don’t like the company you do business with? Buy from someone else. Think your employer’s giving you a raw deal? Get a different job. Start your own business.
But gov’t is imposed on you. And there is no alternative you can go to, no market pressure to impose efficiency or good service. You’ll take what gov’t provides, and pay for it without any choice, and like it.
Based on what the Federal gov’t does now in providing health care to veterans, on what basis would I conclude the Feds are competent to manage the entire health care industry?
Hey Max?
You’d do well to mind Kennedy’s words.
Russia 1917The French Revolution.
People have a way of solving things. It can happen here.
Some is better than none GMC
Max–
Is there a point to your spittle-flecked rant?
I work and pay taxes just like everybody else.
If you’d take a breath and think, you might be able to see that it’s possible to a society to create wealth and distribute new wealth without having to “steal” anything from anybody.
For instance, using tax-dollars to create new energy efficient and energy producing technologies could result in tremendous benefits to our society with a very small initial cost.
Kansas and Max ask, What is the “correct wages?” And more important, who should decide that?
To a large extent, the market decides such things. But we don’t have and have never had a “free market.” That’s a free marketeerian faith-based myth.
We don’t have to have a gov’t committee decide what hamburger flippers should be paid.
However, everyone who works at a full-time job should earn a LIVING WAGE, and that should be mandated by gov’t.
It would benefit everyone in society.
A correct wage is a living wage. If you have a company that makes billions per year and you pay your employees squat, you’re getting fat off the backs of the people you employ…slave wages.
You should pay wages based on what your service is worth. Not how little you can get away with paying your labor.
A recent investigation released in England has identified that Parkay has harbored homosexual feelings about George Tiller for years.
“…distribute new wealth”Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 05:41 PM
Directly out of the Karl Marx handbook.
If those with the money paid the correct wages and weren’t so greedy, we could ALL have economic freedom. But it doesn’t work that way does it Max.
Posted by: political_mom | October 04, 2007 at 05:21 PM
Who’s to blame for your making $18,000 a year after being in the same job forever Pmom?
What have YOU done to get a higher paying job?
Is there no personal responsibility in this world anymore?
Is there no pride in being independent and able to take care of yourself?
Is there no shame in holding your hand out for your entire life, and being dependent on someone else forever? You can’t make it on your own? You don’t know what “Can do” means?
Can’t, Can’t, Can’t.
Does the world owe you something for being born on this Earth? If so, who has to pay? Why?
And why are some born being owed something, and others are born to pay something?
There are two types of people on this Earth. Talkers and Do’ers. Those who can’t, and those who can.
Someday, when we all decide we can’t do anything, then we will all have the same.
Damn right, P-Mom.
Slaves had jobs. Jobs that don’t pay are no jobs.
I’ll tell you what would help. And it’s really simple.
Require employers to reveal what they are paying each individual worker. If the apple polisher is making more than everyone else, everyone else should know about it.
Those who can, do.
Those who can’t, teach.
Those who can’t teach become President.
A correct wage is a living wage. If you have a company that makes billions per year and you pay your employees squat, you’re getting fat off the backs of the people you employ…slave wages.
You should pay wages based on what your service is worth. Not how little you can get away with paying your labor.
Posted by: political_mom | October 04, 2007 at 05:45 PM
So an employee in North Dakota who works for AT&T should make exactly the same as an AT&T employee in New York City?
“Get payed for what you are worth.”
Would that be by the piece work?
Or should the EMT in NYC who gets 16 calls per day be paid the same as the EMT in Paoli, Oklahoma who makes 0.5 calls per day even though they went through the same training.
The biggest communist on the WEBlog is Kansas, living off the taxpayer’s dime.
This is also kindof interesting aobut Parkay’s little researcher.
http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/eletters/18/3/581
Here the stats don’t jive with his assertion that cancer rates are lower in Ireland than England…instead the stats show the opposite. Since Abortion is illegal in Ireland and legal in England, he can’tmake the assertion that abortions cause breast cancer…so he has to dispute the research.
Who decides what a disabled whiner who sits on his ass all day is worth?
Slaves had jobs. Jobs that don’t pay are no jobs.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 05:49 PM
pssst…Capn – Slavery is not a job.
Forced labor has not been, nor will ever be considered a job.
What part of Slavery do you not understand Capn?
Yeah Capn. Kansas is like Larry Craig in a way.
Trash people like you. So no one bothers noticing you.
Who decides what a disabled whiner who sits on his ass all day is worth?
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 05:53 PM
Those who cannot intelligently discuss issues but resort to ad hominem certainly don’t get to decide.
“Some is better than none GMC”
Sometimes. But be careful what you wish for; you just might get it.
And let’s not get carried away about references to the French Revolution, Russia, etc. however. That’s pure hyperbole, sky-is-falling balony. And it reflects on your credibility.
Yea, it can happen. But Americans live remarkably well. Even the “poor” here live, by the standards of most of the planet, very well. Yes, we have problems; we’re not perfect. But the sky is not falling, and the barriers are no where near the streets. Our problems, compared with much of the world, are relatively minor, and managable.
And Capn:
“new energy efficient and energy producing technologies could result in tremendous benefits to our society with a very small initial cost.”
Not unless you’ve got an alien spacecraft parked in your backyard ready to reverse engineer. One of the great myths is that American know how, if applied, could magically make us “energy independent” in a relatively short time.
Balony. Oil is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the lifeblood of the world. There is no substitute waiting out there, just out of reach, not on any sort of scale that would change that calculus. So yes, let’s do research. Let’s make our industries more efficient, and reduce pollution as much as we can. It’s in our interest to do so.
But let’s not imagine there’s some magic bullet out there that we would discover if we just threw enough money at research. There isn’t. Not in the remotely foreseeable future.
Here comes the Liberal “dogpile” show.
Sits back and watches. (chortles at the helpless Libs)
Hey Max?
You’d do well to mind Kennedy’s words.
Russia 1917The French Revolution.
People have a way of solving things. It can happen here.
Posted by: J R | October 04, 2007 at 05:39 PM
So JR, are you a Communist or a Socialist?
Oh, and don’t forget the American Revolution 1776-81, and the Civil War 1861-65.
Sure, Kansas.
Nobody HAS to work in this wonderful free society.
They are free to starve to death.
Doesn’t matter if you’re in chains and getting hit with a whip, or you’re subject to the “discipline of the marketplace,” wage slavery is still slavery.
That depends Kansas, how much does it mean to you to have an EMT available if you have a heart attack?
Trust me, a tiny town is doing runs too, they’re often covering more area over a longer period of time with fewer resources and helpers. Do I think they should make the same? No, I think they should make the proportionate amount.
it’s possible to a society to create wealth and distribute new wealth without having to “steal” anything from anybody.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 05:41 PM
Just pick the money from the money tree.
I’m younger than most people here GMC. This everybody can make it America of yours? It was not my experience. It doesn’t exist anymore.
Trust me, a tiny town is doing runs too, they’re often covering more area over a longer period of time with fewer resources and helpers. Do I think they should make the same? No, I think they should make the proportionate amount.
Posted by: political_mom | October 04, 2007 at 05:57 PM
But who sets that proportional amount.
I mean, we can do away with all city,county and State government right now and let the big Nanny in Washington D.C. decide everything for us.
“One of the great myths is that American know how, if applied, could magically make us “energy independent” in a relatively short time.”
GMC doesn’t bother to read the posts now, he just reads the post-er’s mind.
I said nothing about energy independence.
What I said was there’s a huge demand for energy efficient and energy producing technologies.
This could produce many good paying jobs for us with the political will to pursue it, which of course we don’t have now, thanks to Worst. President. Ever.
But even though your post was arguing against something I didn’t write, GMC, at least it wasn’t completely devoid of content, so that’s an improvement.
GMC do you not think we could make totally solar powered vehicles right now if we wanted to?
I believe we could. As far as cargo, we could use electricity like those trains that run really fast. There are plenty of places that are functioning quite well on far less oil.
“discipline of the marketplace,” wage slavery is still slavery.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 05:56 PM
You should think about changing your name to Karl, Capn.
Getting paid wages is forced labor?
Let me write that down and get it analyzed at our finest economic institutes and universities.
Okay, back.
You’re wrong Capn, try again. Sorry.
BTW, “slave wages” is an oxymoron in the context you used it in.
Whew, when one reduces the other side to incoherent babbling, I guess that means there’s not much point in continuing . . .
Hasta la vista, baby.
Sen. Craig says he is determined to remain in office for duration of term.
Ha What fun!
Again, how much is it worth to you to have a doctor or emergency services?
If it means very little, you’ll pay very little.
If it means more, you’ll pay more.
That’s the free market right?
So if I go out on a run and ask the guy having the heart attack…so how much you gonna pay for me to take you to the hospital…that’d be wrong- cuz you know he’s gonna pay whatever it takes. But I bet you ask him before his heart attack and he’ll say something like 8.50 an hour.
They are free to starve to death.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 05:56 PM
How many Americans starved to death in the last 100 years?
Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking too, JR.
God is smiling on us . . .
we could make totally solar powered vehicles right now if we wanted to?
I believe we could. As far as cargo, we could use electricity like those trains that run really fast. There are plenty of places that are functioning quite well on far less oil.
Posted by: political_mom | October 04, 2007 at 06:01 PM
Sounds like a great idea Pmom. Go for it. You might raise your income a little if you can do this.
I wonder what fuel generates the electricity for those electric trains?
You are playing a game Kansas and you know it. Slave wages are the wages that they give you only because they know you have to work somewhere.
I guess you could say Slaves had a choice too…they could work for their food and a shack…or they could get beaten and killed… take your pick.
Even after slaves were freed, it’s not like they had any real options. You can work in this house for a penny, or you can starve.
Not much option is it?
A word to those without a clue: rushvalium would jump to a democratic platform in a New York minute IF there were more dollars in it. Look at his addictions, his marriages and his penchant for saying s**t so outrageous, his own listeners cluck like chickens. He’s nothing more than a whore for the almighty dollar.
Hearings! Scandal! The GOP forms a circular firing squad with Larry Craig in the middle!
Gues there won’t be a Senate quartet anymore.
“You should pay wages based on what your service is worth.”
Absolutely. And who decides that?
You’ve still not answered the question.
If I need 5 employees to fold letters and stuff envelopes, and 10 show up to do the job, which five should I hire? Assuming all other things are equal, I hire the five I can pay the least. Duh. And the higher the skill level, the more scarce the supply of labor, the more I will have to pay, generally.
Why does a MLB pitcher make millions? Because he’s “worth” it? No; because there is competition for his services, and his skills are extremely scarce.
The market determines wages, P-mom. Gov’t can tinker with market forces a little bit, but ultimately the market always wins. And the market wins because it reflects human nature. No amount of gov’t tinkering, regulation, or manipulation can ever change that. Fighting it is like trying to change the course of the Mississippi. You may divert the stream for a while, but ultimately, the river will win. That’s why the great experiment with large-scale command socialism, the USSR, failed. It will always fail. It is destined to fail, because it denies human nature, or assumes it can be changed. It can’t. Not now, not ever, this side of Heaven.
As the engineers note: in the battle between building things up and gravity, gravity always wins, eventually.
Pretty little private sector spiel ya got there GMC.
From a government employee. Most people are not as lucky as you.
Oh how I hope Cspan covers the Senate ethics committe hearings!
“GMC do you not think we could make totally solar powered vehicles right now if we wanted to?
I believe we could. As far as cargo, we could use electricity like those trains that run really fast. There are plenty of places that are functioning quite well on far less oil.”
—–
Really? Show me that technology. Is it in the same place as the mythical “100 mpg carbureator?”
And, as Max pointed out, where do you think the energy for generating the majority of that electricity comes from? Fossil fuel, primarily coal, oil, and natural gas.
The fact is, for the forseeable future, fossil fuels are reality. Wishing otherwise will not make it so.
Just reality, JR. The world is what it is. Human beings are what they are. And it will always be so.
And it’s no different for government employees. Gov’ts hire at the lowest wage they can to get the workers they need; as employers, they are subject to market forces too. Could I make more in private practice? Certainly, but there are enormous benefits, both practical and personal, in doing what I do. I take, in effect, a pay cut to do it. Does that make me better or worse than any one else? Not at all. My choice.
“If you’d take a breath and think, you might be able to see that it’s possible to a society to create wealth and distribute new wealth without having to “steal” anything from anybody.
For instance, using tax-dollars to create new energy efficient and energy producing technologies could result in tremendous benefits to our society with a very small initial cost.”
Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 05:41 PM
” “…distribute new wealth”Posted by: CapnAmerica | October 04, 2007 at 05:41 PM
Directly out of the Karl Marx handbook.”
Posted by: Kansas | October 04, 2007 at 05:47 PM
Kansas seems to be so HATE-filled that he cannot think — all he can do is hurl insults.
Kansas, did Karl Marx write this study?
http://www.oilendgame.com/ReadTheBook.html“A $180-billion investment over the next decade will yield $130-billion ANNUAL savings by 2025; revitalize the automotive, truck, aviation, and hydrocarbon industries; create a million jobs in both industrial and rural areas; rebalance trade; make the United States more secure, prosperous, equitable, and environmentally healthy; encourage other countries to get off oil too; and make the world more developed, fair, and peaceful.”
And the $180 billion investment is made by businesses, NOT tax-payers.
Instead, tax-payers (mostly in the future) “invested”(sic) a half-trillion $’s to invade and occupy Iraq.
Above OilEndGame is also to Max and GMC70. And see RMI links at top of this thread.
Capn noted a “living wage,” a gov’t mandated minimum wage. Is that removed from market forces?
No, the market simply adjusts to another input, and responds accordingly.
Oilendgame.
Yea, I’ve been to your favorite website, Capn. You’ve been shilling it for a long time – you got stock in this company?
To be blunt – I’m not impressed. Lots of speculation, lots of guesswork. The reality, of course, is that NO ONE knows when the next breakthrough will come, but unless someone magically changed the laws of physics, there is no magic new source of energy waiting out there to be tapped.
GMC70,
You might try to read more carefully.
I, not Capn, posted the OilEndGame link
I don’t think you can buy stock in a 501(c)(3) public charity that asks for donations.
You don’t need to “magically change[] the laws of physics”. Lighter weight, lower air drag, etc cuts fuel demand
If you don’t want to read their detailed 300 page study, try this short visual.
http://www.oilendgame.com/ReadTheBook.html
Winning the Oil Endgame—Slide Presentation (PDF-960k)
New revelations in attack on American spy shipVeterans, documents suggest U.S., Israel didn’t tell full story of deadly ‘67 incident
By John Crewdson | Tribune senior correspondent
October 2, 2007
Bryce Lockwood, Marine staff sergeant, Russian-language expert, recipient of the Silver Star for heroism, ordained Baptist minister, is shouting into the phone.
“I’m angry! I’m seething with anger! Forty years, and I’m seething with anger!”
Lockwood was aboard the USS Liberty, a super-secret spy ship on station in the eastern Mediterranean, when four Israeli fighter jets flew out of the afternoon sun to strafe and bomb the virtually defenseless vessel on June 8, 1967, the fourth day of what would become known as the Six-Day War.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/printedition/tuesday/chi-liberty_tuesoct02,0,3737033,full.story?coll=chi-entertainmentfront-hed
The Logo for the Republican National Convention in Mnpls next year:
http://blogs.courant.com/colin_mcenroe_to_wit/2007/10/this-is-your-el.html
Note the Elephant is Blue !!!
Elephants rising on their hind legs is a position for sexual intercourse / arousal for them.
Convention is being held near the airport where Sen. Craig jas a booth …
Oh the irony …….
— that was a summary of Olbermans worst person in the world tonight
ken,
Thanks for sharing! The comments were hmmm, interesting too. I laughed so loud at some hubby came in to see what was so funny. Do you think they imagine that makes them look tricky? Don’t elephants at the circus do such tricks?
Here is something fun.
http://www.howmanyofme.com
You can enter your name there and see how many people in America you share it with. I don’t know how extensive the database is or how it was compiled though. According to it, my son and brother do not exist!
Anonymity is probably the best policy here. Especially since anyone can hijack your real name and say anything. I’ve spoiled the fun for a few of my friends by looking them up.
First off me. There are only 394 people in the United States with my last name. And I am the only one with my full name. I think I can be excused from not sharing it.
Next Hank. Now I notice Hank isn’t using his last name lately. Probably a good idea! There are only 7 other people with his first and last name.
Nathan does a little better at 277.
Mary Caruso? You might want to go back to Damoon. There are only 205 people with your name.
Steven Davis is probably ok there are 5,686 other Steven Davis’s.
My pal XXX? I happen to know his real name. Don’t ask me to share! Like me there is only one person with his full name.
I heard on the news tonight that 2 cities in California are considering laws to prohibit smoking in all rental properties.
… and you’re worried about some dope smoking liberal (tongue in cheek — no have a baby libs) one coming to take your gun — shit people want to tell you what to do in your house ……….
Well, J R, you know both my first and last names too so it won’t surprise you that there are 1,567,838 people with my first name; 354, 468 with my last name and 1,834 with both my first and last names!
Hi Linda. I need to write to you. I have your email so I’ll do that soon.
1,834 huh? Even that would make me want to stay anonymous here. But you’re one of a kind my book: )
It is true though that cosmos has an erection for the OilEndGame link.
He brings it up regularly.
Kansas,
Do you know any persons and/or groups that have better plans for reducing oil use than Amory Lovins and RMI? If so, name them.
Do you believe that reducing oil use is not important?
“It is true though that cosmos has an erection for the OilEndGame link.”
No ad hominem there – no, none what-so-ever. The ECP doing his usual spreading of real stinky manure.
ECP = Eric Cartman Poster. Kansas has earned that award.
For those of you who don’t know Eric Cartman is the fat, obnoxious kid on South Park. He is always shouting and making a complete ass of himself. Like the poster we all know, too well.
So, this is where all of the liberal kooks are hanging out? It seems that every single degenerate in the state of Kansas posts on this damned blog! You folks are NOT representative of most Kansans and you should all relocate to san franfreakshow.
Since when are Green Berets in the air force Kansas JM?
Steven Barry, please don’t let the door hit you on the ass as you leave. Nite, nite, jerk who is looking for your identity…
I’ve got your number KansasJM. I can pull the rods outta the reactor anytime you like: )
Or should the EMT in NYC who gets 16 calls per day be paid the same as the EMT in Paoli, Oklahoma who makes 0.5 calls per day even though they went through the same training.
Posted by: Kansas | October 04, 2007 at 05:51 PM
=======================
Would you be insinuating that the EMT in Oklahoma is worth LESS than the EMT in NYC??? They both have the same training… And both are capable of doing the same job…
To suggest that one is worth more because of where they live, is a bit uppity, Kansas… to say the least…
Sgt. Steven Barry, Green Beret (retired)–
Enjoy your pension paid for by the American taxpayer, Sarge.
And while you’re sucking on the gov’t teat, be sure to go batshit crazy about all the SOCIALISM in America today.
And see my post above about CONservative WACKED posts–
WithoutAnyContent,KookyExecrable andDemeaning
Steven Davis,
ECP is LOL! Note also his two Karl Marx posts upthread.
If Kansas didn’t post ad hominem’s, lies, and very stupid snarky stuff, he’d be making very, very few posts.
Kansas,
No answer to my 10:46 PM questions? I’ll ask you again, later.
Sgt. Steven Barry,
You and “Kansas values” Kansas, the ECP, should be friends.
“Patrick” nails it again!
i’m very impressed you and patrick are such close friends.like he gives a crap about you.
heyhow’s homo larry craig doing with his i’m not a homo restroom cruiser for homo sex kinda christian.
larry and the nra love each other very very much.
you don’t care about family values.you do care about lies and some hazy neo-CON ideas of controlling the world.
Is this who Limbaugh was talking about – phony soldier?
“So, this is where all of the liberal kooks are hanging out? It seems that every single degenerate in the state of Kansas posts on this damned blog! You folks are NOT representative of most Kansans and you should all relocate to san franfreakshow.”
Posted by: Sgt. Steven Barry, Green Berets (retired) | October 04, 2007 at 11:13 PM