Ralph Nader has complained that there really isn’t any difference between Republicans and Democrats. But on the Iraq war, there sure is. Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., announced Wednesday his plan to withdraw all combat troops from Iraq by the end of next year. "The best way to protect our security and to pressure Iraq’s leaders to resolve their civil war is to immediately begin to remove our combat troops," he said. Meanwhile, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who also was in Iowa Wednesday, has a new campaign theme: "No Surrender." Speaking to veterans, McCain said: "If we leave, there will be chaos and genocide in the region, and we will be back."
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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From John Dean’s new book, BROKEN GOVERNMENT
As I was writing this closing section an old friend from the Nixon White House called. Now retired, he is a lifelong Republican who told me that he voted for Bush and Cheney twice, because he knows them both personally. He asked how my new book was coming, and when I told him the title, he remarked, “I’ll say the government’s broken.” After we discussed it, he asked how I planned to end the book, since the election was still a good distance away. I told him I was contemplating ending midsentence and immediately fading to black — the way HBO did in the final episode of the Sopranos, but that I would settle for a nice quote from him, on the record. He explained that he constantly has to bite his tongue, and the reason he does not speak out more is because one of his sons is in an important (nonpolitical) government post, and we both know that Republicans will seek revenge wherever they can find it. How about an off-the-record comment? I asked. That he agreed to.
“Just tell your readers that you have a source who knows a lot about the Republican party from long experience, that he knows all the key movers and shakers, and he has a bit of advice: People should not vote for any Republican, because they’re dangerous, dishonest and self-serving. While I once believed that Governor George Wallace had it right, that there was not a dime’s worth of difference in the parties; that is not longer true. I have come to realize the Democrats really do care about people who most need help from government; Republicans care most about those who will only get richer because of government help. The government is truly broken, particularly in dealing with national security, and another four years, and heaven forbid not eight years, under the Republicans, and our grandchildren will have to build a new government, because the one we have will be unrecognizable and unworkable.”
http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/09/11/dean/index_np.html
It’s only rhetoric on either part. Neither major party is ever going to pull all the troops out of Iraq. We still have troops in Europe, Asia, and elsewhere from other wars. Republicans and Democrats alike are invested in expanding their power around the world.
You sound like a Vietnames woman I knew, she said “The U.S. will never leave”.
Hillary will see how Obama’s announcement affects polling. If it helps him too much then she will figure out how to lie to the anti-war left to make them think she is in favor of withdrawal too.
the anti-war left to make them think she is in favor of withdrawal too.
Posted by: outlander
it must be nice to be so thinkless. new word just for you.
wow, when more kids have been killed in that shithole iraq than people killed on 9/11 you really have to suspend reality to stand so tall behind your boy george.
has george made us safer? you’re kidding right? or is that you’re kidding the right, right?
so your big plan when faced with the waste and murder in craphole iraq is… what, make fun of democrats?
gee wizzz that’s progress for you.keep up the good thoughts.the glass is half full.the surge is working.the checks in the mail.mission accomplished.we’re kicking ass in iraq.
i didn’t know meaningless slogans could be so much fun.
we be jammim now!!
Leave it Capn to quote John Dean from the disgraced Nixon administration. Only a secular progressive like Capn would saddle a lice infested mule like that and ride it into town claiming to everyone that it’s really a Palomino.
holy crappolee.
i missed the newest one…
“No Surrender”
you really have to admire a guy who was way ahead of bush in the polls until bush and rove hit on the brilliant idea of calling voters and pretending to be poll takers and casually asking…
“would you vote for john mccain if you knew he had an illegitimate black child?”
and after that, john mccain puts his support behind bush and works to get bush elected.
“no surrender” cool slogan.
Leave it to the troll to attack the messenger when he can’t refute the message.
Leave it Capn to quote John Dean from the disgraced Nixon administration. Only a secular progressive like Capn would saddle a lice infested mule like that and ride it into town claiming to everyone that it’s really a Palomino.
Posted by: Kansas
nixon was one of your people ks.”secular progressive” i like the sound of that whatever it really means.
oh, here’s something about that…
“Cable news anchor Bill O’Reilly has dubbed liberals “secular progressives.”
“O’Reilly thinks he has to adopt any term the left throws at him.”
so, which is it, the bad liberal left thought of the term or bile oreilly did it?
they are just terms, a way to label anyone that thinks differently than you.
and since you don’t have the brain power to think on your own, you welcome having someone to think your thoughts for you.
i thought the mule was the republician party symbol.
Leave it Capn to quote John Dean from the disgraced Nixon administration. Only a secular progressive like Capn would saddle a lice infested mule like that and ride it into town claiming to everyone that it’s really a Palomino.
Posted by: Kansas
nixon was one of your people ks.”secular progressive” i like the sound of that whatever it really means.
oh, here’s something about that…
“Cable news anchor Bill O’Reilly has dubbed liberals “secular progressives.”
“O’Reilly thinks he has to adopt any term the left throws at him.”
so, which is it, the bad liberal left thought of the term or bile oreilly did it?
they are just terms, a way to label anyone that thinks differently than you.
and since you don’t have the brain power to think on your own, you welcome having someone to think your thoughts for you.
i thought the mule was the republician party symbol.
sorry about the double post etc
Always wrong Kansas calls me a “secular progressive.”
Wrong. I am not secular. I actually teach Sunday school.
(That should elicit a pile-on of cheap shots from the “Christians.”)
Should I bring some of your posts where you swear like a drunken sailor to your Sunday School class Capn?
I feel sorry for the kids in that class who will get a warped view of whatever book it is you use to teach them and the profane mind teaching them.
Hey CapnAmerica-
I don;t know if what you teach is “right” or “wrong”, but hurray for you for making a difference. Iam fairly certain it is not “christian”, but teaching anything remotely resembling a morals sytem is not always popular these days.
Actually s.a., the Democratic symbol is a donkey, not a mule. So your little game didn’t work as you started out in error.
I knew I liked this guy!! I’m glad someone has the guts to outline a plan for withdrawal, and coming from Obama, who voted against the Iraqi War, it has more substance with me.
Actually the donkey could be the new symbol of the repukes.
In card games the donkey represents a player who makes plays at the wrong time, wastes way too much of his bank roll on obvious weak moves, and leaves the game broke.
Kinda like the lives and taxpayer money wasted in Iraq.
In cards it’s fold, raise, bet, or call.
Donkeys always call when they should folded. Nobodys believes Bush when he bluffs anymore.
Should I bring some of your posts where you swear like a drunken sailor to your Sunday School class Capn?
Good idea, Kansas. Because we all know the only thing that matters to Almighty God is whether one uses or refrains from using the word “shit” or not.
Also, I resent my swearing getting compared to sailors’. My use of profanity is far more sophisticated than that of a common seaman.
And confronting me in person is not really your style, is it, JM?
Mudslinging = losing ground.
Think about it. It’ll come to you…
LittleJohn–
What did you mean when you wrote–’I am fairly certain it is not “christian”‘?
What is the “it” you refer to?
Huh-huh—huh huh— you said… seamenHuh-huh—huh huh
Should I bring some of your posts where you swear like a drunken sailor to your Sunday School class Capn?I feel sorry for the kids in that class who will get a warped view of whatever book it is you use to teach them and the profane mind teaching them.Posted by: Kansas
I bet you always talk about less govt intruding in private lives.
At the same time you will poke your nose into someones life and go to their church to tell everyone what you think about a member of their church.
How have you managed to stay alive so long?
Cowardice, Exile.
That’s how.
Pure cowardice.
Just pointing out what a full-fledge hypocrite the Capn is.
LittleJohn–
What did you mean when you wrote–’I am fairly certain it is not “christian”‘?
What is the “it” you refer to?
Posted by: CapnAmerica | September 13, 2007 at 04:07 PM
Your teachings at Sunday School. If I remember right, you do not claim to be be christian, and attend a Universalist type church.
I don;t know if what you teach is “right” or “wrong”, but hurray for you for making a difference.
YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON!!!!
I am fairly certain it is not “christian”,
I’M VERY JUDGEMENTAL BECAUSE I KNOW EVERYTHING AND I AM ALWAYS RIGHT. BTW YOU ARE NOT A GOOD PERSON.
but teaching anything remotely resembling a morals sytem is not always popular these days.
Posted by: littlejohn
SO WHILE I KNOW YOU ARE BAD AND CAN’T TEACH ANYTHING THAT’S GOOD AND RIGHT CAPN I WILL SUCK UP A TINY BIT AND THEN REMIND EVERYONE THAT MORALS OF COURSE DON’T MATTER IN THESE SINFUL TIMES.
Just pointing out what a full-fledge hypocrite the Capn is.
Posted by: Kansas
lol… you are like the shit calling anything else smelly… right??
don;t know if what you teach is “right” or “wrong”, but hurray for you for making a difference.
YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON!!!!
I am fairly certain it is not “christian”,
I’M VERY JUDGEMENTAL BECAUSE I KNOW EVERYTHING AND I AM ALWAYS RIGHT. BTW YOU ARE NOT A GOOD PERSON.
but teaching anything remotely resembling a morals sytem is not always popular these days.
Posted by: littlejohn
SO WHILE I KNOW YOU ARE BAD AND CAN’T TEACH ANYTHING THAT’S GOOD AND RIGHT CAPN I WILL SUCK UP A TINY BIT AND THEN REMIND EVERYONE THAT MORALS OF COURSE DON’T MATTER IN THESE SINFUL TIMES.
Posted by: CAUSE I KNOW | September 13, 2007 at 04:22 PM
GO fk yourself. None of that was my intent. That’s why the “good” and the “bad” was in paranthesis you moron—indicating the “correctness” of his teaching, which is hotly debated on this blog, day in and day out.
Turdbreath
Capn has always claimed to be a Christian. Teaching Sunday School is a very commendable thing. Some of you repubs are going way out on a limb with your judgments, considering judgment is in God’s realm and not yours.
Figures some of you twits would find a way to slam a man for doing God’s work.
Cowardice, Exile.
That’s how.
Pure cowardice.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | September 13, 2007 at 04:11 PM
Pot meet kettle!!!
unless you can prove that Capn has stole from little old ladies on social security, got caught with his pants down in a dark park restroom, wacked off looking at a penthouse with a hooker in a cheap motel room, thrown away 1,000’s of paid for prayer requests, coerced a young church secretary into a sexual relationship, tried to seduce an under age employee, cruised public restrooms for gay sex, or ripped off his church for millions of dollars… maybe you should not judge him so harshly.
Again with the fecal references exile. You definitely have a fecal fetish.
Capn has always claimed to be a Christian. Teaching Sunday School is a very commendable thing. Some of you repubs are going way out on a limb with your judgments, considering judgment is in God’s realm and not yours.
Figures some of you twits would find a way to slam a man for doing God’s work.
Posted by: XXX | September 13, 2007 at 04:32 PM
I could be wrong, I thought CapnAmerica attended a universalist church, and did not claim to be Christian. If I am wrong and mixed him up with someone else, I apologize for the error. However, I was still commending him for teaching Sunday School. There are many religions that have high morals, not just Christians. I am a christian, I believe it is the most correct choice, but I am under no clouded vision that it is the only place where morals exist. WHere in the world did you think I was doing anything else?
GO fk yourself. None of that was my intent. That’s why the “good” and the “bad” was in paranthesis you moron—indicating the “correctness” of his teaching, which is hotly debated on this blog, day in and day out.TurdbreathPosted by: littlejohn
loloopsLOL
Turdbreath. Hee hee hee hee. That’s what I used to call my dog if she raided the cat box.
Damn cat boxes anyway.
Again with the fecal references exile. You definitely have a fecal fetish.
Posted by: Kansas
that’s hard to say several times in a roll.fecal fetishfecal fetishfecal fetishholy cow (shit).
Hey, cow shit is my garden’s best friend!
so bush is gonna go on tv and say he wants a korea like agreement with iraq (shithole of the year). s.h.o.t.y. no not bush… iraq.
does this madness ever appear to come to an end.
And they can all debate about why Germany is helping Iran get nuke technologies (and North Korea helping Syria):
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,503865,00.htmlDidn’t Germany help other Arab dictators in the past???
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/12/world/middleeast/12syria.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/10/world/middleeast/10iraq.htmlAfter we leave, and Iran has the nuke?
LJ–
I am a member of an Episcopal Church.
As for JM-Kansas, first he calls me “secular” and that proven wrong, he slams my devotion to Christianity.
Since he was wrong about the first, one can conclude he’s wrong about the second.
Well, I certainly would call that “Christian”. My apologies.
I am not sure where I got that you were a member of a universalist style church. My bad. Someone on this blog proclaims to be such. Apparently I have mistaken your belief system for his. But like I said, I am not so blind as to believe Chritianity is the only “good” morality system. Regardless , I reiterate my congratulations to you for stepping up the the plate and teaching. It was sincere to start with.
kansas or whoever has no sway with me. Sometimes he makes good points, often he does not.
In regard to Iraq… Whoops, must be on the wrong thread.
Oh, I guess I wasn’t on the wrong thread.
I just wanted to point out that according to polling more folks overall support the Petraeus recommendations than oppose them. Not that foreign policy should be run by poll, but it’s not true that most Americans think it wise to withdraw immediately.
Forgot the link.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/43_support_petraeus_recommendation_38_oppose
Yea, I think we should have a slow withdrawal, something on the span of two years, decrease it by few thousand troops each month, for a couple of years.
“decrease it by few thousand troops each month, for a couple of years. ”
Starting in 2009 right
“Officials in Washington said that the most likely targets of the raid were weapons caches that Israel’s government believes Iran has been sending”
pack the bags marge, we be going to iran next.
iran signed a deal to supply natural gas to dubai. russia was involved one way or the other too.
many nations don’t hate iran like george bush does.some nations think it’s better in the long haul to work together for future good.
it’s hard to decide if iran is bad or just someone bush and cheney want everyone to hate.
i know i’m gonna get shit about that, but how do you know what’s what when info goes through the bush filter.
like when bush looked right into the camera tonight and said we are in iraq with 37 other countries.
i think even the righties would agree that was a total lie… right?
As long as I (bushdafool) don’t have to make the decision (’cause I don’t know how I got here let alone how to get out!). The decrease might (if the next president decides) begin around January 2009 — yeah, that’s the ticket!
Listening to Bush weaving a pack of lies and trying to pawn that off as the truth about Iraq leaves loyal Americans with that sickly feeling of being thoroughly insulted.
Bush has not only disgraced America for all the world to see, but the world must ask: Why don’t you let him veto a funding Bill, and then cause him to beg for money to feed the troops, as their dedicated “Commander-in-Chief?
Dole out a little money each day.
As long as Bush wants to play “dirty pool” he must remember that there are two ends to a pool cue.
Real Choices? The media has already decided upon Clinton and Obama ticket.
They are frustrated they cannot decide the republican candidate this late (early) in the election cycle.
AND NOW, we have the press telling us we have choices.
When they provide space for Ron Paul, I will believe them.
Voters retain the option to ignore the media. Lately, I haven’t watched the cable shout shows much. I’ve been reading instead. Tonight, though, I watched MSNBC’s coverage of Bush’s speech. Afterwards, you had the opportunity to listen to Buchanan, Fineman, Matthews, Olbermann and various other participants. Biden sounded off, as did Huckabee. You read the material, listen to the speeches, and then you walk into the voter’s booth and do your best. Matthews has no sway over my decision, but neither does Sean Hannity. They are people with opinions who happen to be on television. You are a voter. It’s up to you to make up your own mind.
If the plan on the Republican side is to stay in Iraq indefinitely, then I would think the question will have to be raised about reinstating the draft. Even if Petraeus–who appears to be the all-knowing authority on this thing if you heard Bush make reference to the man innumerably this evening–is able to bring off the modest troop reductions that he proposed, the volunteer army has to be running on fumes, with no real end in sight.
As for Obama’s proposal, I would not want to be in one of the last remaining brigades if the presumed diplomatic efforts do not work out as planned. Better to move without telling your enemy what you’re considering. Of course, given the size of the deployment, that’s not possible, either.
The Republicans will have a difficult time telling this story in the ‘08 elections, one way or another. It’s hard to justify an invasion when all you have to show for it is that you have to go on occupying a country the rest of forever to avoid facing the music on your initial poor decision. (The argument that the media is not properly reporting on successes is undermined by the GOP’s assertion that, just like at The Hotel California, we can never leave.)
The choices being offered on either side of the aisle, however, do not look good. I noticed in the NY Times article that Senator Dodd had a bit of a dismissive comment about Obama’s rhetorical prowess, but maybe the man can build on this gift.
I personally like Obama a lot, and probably Edwards second. I am not a bit Hillary fan and all of the Republican candidates leave me cold, even though I was a Republican for many years. I became embarrassed by the Republican party and had to drop my party affiliation. I think the Democrats far and away have the best roster of candidates this election.
Look over there, to the right, off in the distance,I think a light went on.
LJ – I think it may be Chas that is the Universalist.
some nations think it’s better in the long haul to work together for future good.
Some nations don’t. That is historical. Not every nation wants to achieve a common good unless it meets their definition. Many Muslims want all to convert or die, and some of these Muslims control or exert strong influence in Arab countries. How do you make friends with people like that? By converting or dying since no other choice works for them.
I am not a fan of invading other countries since their are too many that we would have to invade, or drop nukes on to achieve world peace.