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Open thread 9/8
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Sept. 8, 2007 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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189 Comments
Say NO to War Funding -
Demand Money for Health Care, Jobs, & Education
NOT War and Occupation – SEPT 22-29
Join the cast of “SICKO” for a vigil on Friday evening to honor the life of Tracey Pierce and to demand justice for him and all of the many other victims of the profit first, people last – healthcare system. (See box below.)
AND MARCH WITH THE CAST OF “SICKO” ON SEPTEMBER 29TH to demand Healthcare, Not Warfare. People from all over the country who are sick of seeing billions of dollars wasted on war and occupation and who feel that people’s needs must come first will be forming a giant contingent to demand healthcare for all at the Sept. 29th march to stop the war in Washington D.C.
They will be joining trade union and community activists who are tired of seeing layoffs, mortgage foreclosures and cuts; students and youth who are questioning the injustice of the war; veterans and active duty GI’s who are courageously speaking out against the war; Katrina/Rita survivors who are still fighting for their long over due rights; immigrant workers who are facing unfair deportations; and the tens of thousands of other people who simply want to bring the troops home now.
IT IS URGENT TO ACT NOW because funding for the war and occupation of Iraq will expire on Oct 1st. At this time Congress will be considering the largest increase ever to fund the war. They will be voting on an additional $50 billion on top of the $147 billion already allocated to continue the war.
We cannot be silent! One fourth of the Iraq war budget alone could pay for health care for close to 47 million uninsured people. Join the Encampment across from Congress, in front of the Capitol from Sept 22 to 29 to demand that NO WAR FUNDING; attend the Friday evening vigil; and MARCH ON SATURDAY.
If you cannot come to Washington, you can still help. Please donate MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from “troopsoutnow.org” claiming to be (http://troopsoutnow.org/donate.shtml) whatever you can to help others join the march. Every single dollar helps to make our voices stronger. Your donations can help pay for buses, flyers, picket signs, mailings and all of the necessary costs. Everyone can be a part of this effort.
For more information see: http://www.TroopsOutNow.org/HealthCareNotWarfare.html
Why buy water off the shelf?
It creates a huge problem with plastic that is not necessary.
For the most part why not fill up thermos bottles or other reusable containers at home with water from the tap? Why pay for tap water? A simple filter attached to the faucet will remove the chlorine taste. Filters will more than pay for themselves.
Taking a trip? Stock up before you leave. Tap water can be found all along the way in convenience store restrooms. Use long lasting reusable containers as they will more than pay for themselves.
It would probably more economical for homeowners to install reverse osmosis systems and/or home distillers than pay for it off the shelf. That’s what drove our decision 20 years ago to purchase a Pure Water home distilling unit. Stainless steel distilling units are user friendly,easy to repair,clean and last quite a long time. We’re still on our original purchase.
http://www.purewaterinc.com/
http://www.purewaterofkc.com/distillers/index.html
Some stores offer water to be bought if you bring your own containers. They also sell containers. Some may sell simple good water filters.
Buy frozen cans of juice instead of juice at the store. This too will more than pay for itself.
Whether American troops leave Iraq tomorrow, or next week, or next year, or ten years from now, there *will* be a bloodbath.
The Shi’ites and Sunis will assure it. Iraq’s entire 20th Century legacy of forced linking of two opposing fundamentalist religious extremist sects has been just the fuse for an an inevitable explosion.
Four thousand more dead Americans isn’t going to change the ultimate outcome in Iraq. Nor will 40,000.
It won’t be pretty to watch, and it will all be directly attributable to George WMD Bush’s neo-con idiocy. In fact, Shrub has admitted his current strategy is to hand off his Iraq fiasco to the next president, so they’ll get the blame.
From his cocaine days in college, to his no-show at the National Guard, to his Arbusto Oil scam, to his take-the-money-and-run ownership of the Texas Rangers, George WMD Bush has always had Daddy’s money and friends eager to pull his fat out of the fire. Iraq will turn out the same way.
The job market took a serious and unexpected turn for the worse last month, raising the risk of a recession and putting added pressure on the Federal Reserve to move more aggressively to keep the ailing housing industry from infecting the rest of the economy.http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/08/business/08econ.html
Looks like the chickens are coming home to roost. Like the Iraq war, Bush expected to fob this one off on the next administration (most likely Democrat). Looks like president Augustus Stupidus and his GOP supporters truly have run this country into the ground.
XXX,
The job market always declines this time of year when teachers, college and high school kids quit their summer jobs and go back to school.
Happens every year.
oseph Antos, American Enterprise Institute, looks inside the Cenus numbers, because they are very misleading.
uninsured who are NOT U.S. CITIZENS IS 45% of the 47 million.
Broken down by age, 18 – 24 years old – 29.3% of the 47 million.
25 – 35 years old – 26.9% of the 47 million.
Broken down by salary, $75,000 or more per year – 8.5% of the 47 million.
Did you get that? Almost half of the uninsured in America are not U.S. citizens.
There is too much money being spent on education now.
Johnny graduates without being able to read, but he can sure play a musical instrument.
Reduce money for education and fire most of the administrative staff. Get rid of all the extraneous offerings or make the parents pay for them 100%.
Larger classroom sizes work in other industrialized countries, but not here?
Something is wrong with that picture.
More money does not a fix a problem, and more federal money only makes the problem worse.
It should be a parent’s responsibility to provide breakfast and lunch for their children, not the government’s. Parents should also be responsible for making sure their children can read and write before they start school, not the government once they get there.
Start flunking students again. It does not hurt their self esteem and it does teach them what happens in the real world if you don’t measure up. Parents you do a disservice to your children and this country when you prevent your children from failing.
On the uninsured most of the American citizens that are uninsured are uninsured by choice. The healthy ones do not want to waste the money, and most of the rest are too lazy to sign up for Healthwave or SCHIP. At least 90% of Americans are coverable under those plans, but many do not sign up. Maybe it is pride, laziness, or another equally dumb reason.
Do not worry once President Edwards institutes mandatory doctor visits, that will be solved.
I find it disgusting when they show how America is at the bottom compared to other nations. Have you considered that obesity, smoking, and other poor health choices, including not get the free insurance for those who qualify, are the biggest reasons?
The Democrats deserve equal blame as you put on the Republicans. They have been helping screw up the country as long as the Republicans. Democrats refuse to admit it as much as the Republicans. I wish both you groups would stop drinking the kool aid before you destroy this country.
The job market always declines this time of year when teachers, college and high school kids quit their summer jobs and go back to school.
Happens every year.
Posted by: Kansas | September 08, 2007 at 09:08 AM
==========================
I that’s true, Kansas, then tell the Fed to leave things alone… since it happens “every year.” ROFL
I = If
No name, you’re wrong. Flat out wrong. But if it makes you feel better about why you vote against these things, hey ya gotta ease your conscious somehow when we do wrong.
How am I wrong? You make a broad statement without proof. Show me where there are real differences between Democrats and Republicans when they are elected. Compare Tiahrt to Glickman. When they first got elected they both made similar promises, and they broke those problems. All either party cares about is getting reelected and gaining power.
It is sad that you do not see how corrupt your party is.
Democrats made a bunch of promises last year, and they have only kept one. They have broken or not kept the others. Before you tell me they dont control Congress, they have the same kind of majority the Republicans had. So either the Republicans never controlled Congress or the Democrats now do.
How am I easing my conscious? You are the one supporting the status quo. I am the one advocating that the status quo is not working and has not worked for many years.
You are the one that easing your conscious by your own actions.
As Einstein said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. The Democrats controlled Congress for 40 years.
Show me where, other than a few nonissues the Democrats do not follow Republicans.
Democrats accept big business/corporate money, PAC, lobbyist monies as much as the Republicans. Democrats have scandals just like the Republicans, or did you forget about the most recent one? I remember the Foley incident. A Democrat came out and said there were other names to be released, but those names were never released. I suspect those names included Democrats or they would have released them.
Does anyone think that a Democratic Congress with a Democratic President is a good thing? Look at history when one party, Republican or Democratic, controls both, bad things happen. Do I want a Republican President? Depends on who wins the primary. Do I want a Democratic President? It depends on who wins the primary.
Better scenario is for one or both Houses of Congress to be controlled by one party and the Presidency and maybe one House to be controlled by the other.
The Democrats accuse the Republicans of bipartisanship while engaging in the same. We need a true President and Congress to make peace with each other and fix Social Security, the mess in Iraq, true Welfare reform, Education reform, Healthcare Reform, and a host of issues that neither party does more than talk about.
“The Democrats accuse the Republicans of bipartisanship while engaging in the same.”
Blank — I DO hope that statement is a major Typo… I dont know ANY Democrat accusing Republicans of bipartisanship… In fact, just the OPPOSITE!! LOL
Nobody thinks their party is completely perfect, thats why we argue with our own people.
But if you compare the dems to the republicans, our policies have been better for America, and it’s shown in how this country has functioned in the last 40 years.
You cannot expect anyone to follow different rules to get elected, they all have to have the same advantages or disadvantages as far as funding. I wish it weren’t so, that we could elect people based on ideals rather than money, but it’s never been that way and it won’t ever be.
You meant to say partisanship, we want bipartisanship. But how will we ever have that when the right does nothing but sling mud at the ones with the ideas? Hillary DOES NOT DESERVE the crap she’s gotten. The right hates her for one key reason…because Bill Clinton showed just how effective a good president can be, and they hated that because it made their party and their policies look bad.
So it’s not what worked for America…no. If that were true, we’d have no republicans right now at all.
No name, check your facts about the uninsured. Saying that 90% can get on Healthwave or SCHIP is laughable. And, please, try checking those facts with someone other than Rush.
Chuck Hagel to throw in the towel and retire. 2008 is going to be a blood bath for the Republicans!A dem. congress and president is America’s only hope to undo what George and his butt buddies have wrought!
‘Melting ice cap triggering earthquakes· Estimates of sea-level rise out of date, say scientists’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/sep/08/climatechange“Dr [Robert] Corell, director of the global change programme at the Heinz Centre in Washington, said the estimates of sea level rise in the IPCC report were based on data two years old. The predicted rise this century was 20-60cm (about 8-24ins) , but it would be at the upper end of this range at a minimum, he said, and some believed it could be two metres. This would be catastrophic for European coastlines.”
Watch out Cosmos, some of the Blogsters will come back at you and make the attempt to connect the Heinz Centre, with John Kerry…
Phantom you make want to look at the history of when Congress and the Presidency are controlled by one party. You wont have to look to far, last year is a good starting place.
It is too early for either side to brag about winning the Presidency. It will come down to: 1) which candidates win the primaries for both parties; 2) if anything dramatic happens just before election day that swings voters to one party or the other; 3) other things that also dont make sense.
Rox, I did not say that 90% could get on Healthwave or SCHIP. I said that 90% of Americans have access to health insurance if they want it. Big difference. I dont listen to Rush, Savage, or any other radio talk shows, just like I dont listen to Fox News.
polical mom you are entitled to your opinion. Show me how the country was better under the Democrats and I will agree with you. First, do not claim the budget surplus under Clinton/Bush because there was no surplus. They used money from Social Security, Medicare, and Civil Service Retirement funds to create that surplus. Money that should have stayed where it was.
Second, the Democrats were just as big on increasing the size of the fed. govt. as the Republicans became. Third, the deficits were growing under Democrats and they are continuing to grow under Democrats. What happened to that promise from last year?
It is too early to tell how great a Presidency Clinton had. We are just now seeing how Presidents from 60+ years did.
I meant bipartisanship, since the Democrats made it an issue last year. I have not seen them attempting to work that closely with Republicans, but I have also not seen that many Republicans doing it either.
What is the Democratic plan for Social Security reform? I know a lot of Democrats claim it is not an issue, but it is. The longer Congress waits to deal with it, the worse the solution will be, regardless of which side controls Congress. If I was either party, I would not want to be in control of Congress or the Presidency when that crap hits the fan.
As to slinging mud, the left is just as good as the right. The evidence is here as well as in Topeka and DC.
Chas. check your own facts. Even if your statement is accurate which I have not seen proof, their own actions prove it is as factual as the Republicans that are playing bipartisanship.
Blank — I was not suggesting that bipartisanship is a reality… In fact, just the opposite… I think you mis-read what I posted…
I also dont see any Republicans accusing the Democrats of bipartisanship!!
I think social security reform will come as the healthcare reform also happens.
I disagree with you that 90% of uninsured Americans have access to health insurance. You’d have to also believe they can afford it. Considering that even a good healthcare plan costs about 500 a month, how can you justify that to be affordable by a family?
Show your work on how Clinton created a surplus using dollars from other programs. Simply saving the money from interest would be justification enough to do it.
I must have, but bipartiship is a reality, at least from what I see in Congress. Maybe our definitions are different? I see bipartisanship when both sides entrench themselves in our side has to win instead of compromising or collaborating to reach a middle ground. Republicans are starting to do so because they are afraid of not being reelected next year if they dont on some issues. I think it will be an interesting election cycle no matter who wins control of the Presidency and Congress. Many Americans have or will soon tune out the political ads because of burnout. I feel sorry for those people in the early primary states since they probably get bombarded with TV, radio, and other ads saying vote for candidate A.
If anyone wants to have fun with a candidate, ask them their stand on stopping the sales tax on prescription drugs. Their answer should be there hasnt been a sales tax on them for a while. I lost count of how many local and state politicians still push for this removal.
PMom, my health insurance is $550/month for just ME… Good thing my wife has medicare with her SSDI
OK Blank… that is your problem… wrong definition…
Bipartisanship is when both parties work TOGETHER for a common bill/resolution… Not when they work for their “own side is right”
Try that one on for size now…
Richard Heckler–
Please e-mail me at wally_o66@yahoo.com
I want to tell you about a local event that we’re having on Sept 11th.
No-name,
Posting without a nic is kind of rude.
Please stop it.
Thank you,
The Management
LOL – I didnt even think it was possible to post without some kind of nic… but I guess there must be a way
politicalmom, all it takes is looking at the budgets under both late Clinton and early Bush years to see where the surplus came from. Yes, reducing some things did help the deficit be lower than it had been, but that was not enough. Congress has been stealing from those three funds for years. It is one of the main reasons Medicare and Social Security will have problems within the next 10 – 20 years. Civil Service Retirement will have trouble sooner since so many feds are near retirement age.
As to healthcare, Healthwave has a fairly high maximum income. A survey a while back indicated a lot of the healthy crowd, which was a fair number of the uninsured chose not to be uninsured. They are taking the gamble they wont need it. The people that get screwed the most on healthcare are the middle income that exceed Healthwave limits.
What leads you to believe Social Security reform will come soon? Yes, it will come, but it is not happening fast enough. Britain recently did the noball approach for its version of Social Security. Their leaders did not want to take flak for making the change. They appointed a committee with authority to make the changes needed. That way they could blame it on the committee even though they appointed the committee. The longer the delay the worse the pain. If you are under about 45, you will feel the pain the most. Social Security was designed as a temporary measure, but FDR did not understand govt. programs are rarely temporary. I will draw Social Security in 21 years, but I dont expect it to be there. People argue that something will be there. Depending on your source, the IOUs in Social Security range from several Trillion to tens of Trillions. Starting around 2010 the Boomers are going to start retiring in large numbers. Social Security does not have the budget or manpower to handle its current workload.
Bush’s suggestion wasnt that great, but his opponents did not offer anything better.
I prefer having my own account and putting that money where I want it. Social Security has about an average 1-2% return on what you put in it. A lousy savings account could get you that return if not more.
For anyone in their early twenties, late teens, put 20% of your gross in an IRA/401K for ten to twenty years and you will draw a lot more than Social Security would provide you with.
was just wanting to inform you of a nurse in at Applebees on Saturday the 8th at noon. We will meet at the Applebees on N. ROCK RD2035 North Rock Road, Ste 101Wichita, KS 67206
Here is why we will be meeting:
On June 14th (my anniversary) a few of my children (I have 8) took me to Applebee’s for lunch. For my own privacy I asked for the corner booth. I sat facing into the corner not facing the room. My then 7 month old baby boy needed to nurse so we did. A server came to me and stated that the manager asked her to come speak to me because she was a female. She said the manager said if we wanted to breastfeed we had to cover the baby’s head with a blanket. I told her since it was hot out that I didn’t have a blanket. She reiterated so I stopped nursing and asked to speak with the manager. As we waited the baby cried so I passed him across the table to my oldest son (almost 18 yrs old) so he could help comfort his as I was a bit shook up. The baby was inconsolable so I told my son to take him to the van and I would come to nurse him as soon as I spoke with the manager. When the manager (Justin Arnolds) came I handed him a copy of the KRS 211.755 law that I keep in my diaper bag. I said “I would like you to educate yourself and your employees of this law that protects breastfeeding mothers.” He handed it back to me after glancing over it and said “I know but somebody complained it was indecent exposure so you have to cover the baby with a blanket if you want to breastfeed here”. I again held out the paper saying “look at part 3 of the law, it says no person shall interfere with a woman breastfeeding her child”. He said the same exact thing as before “I know but somebody complained it was indecent exposure so you have to cover the baby with a blanket if you need to breastfeed here.” At that exact moment our server came back with our meal and I said “We can not eat this because I have to go breastfeed my baby.” As I exited the hostess asked what was wrong and I told her very briefly and said “I don’t see anyone else eating under a blanket in here.”I went to the van, nursed my baby, cried, and called my local LLL leader Karen. She told me to get the manager and servers name. She gave me names and addresses of people I needed to let know about this incident.Our lawyer wrote a letter on June 27, 2007 to Applebee’s restaurant owner/operator company Thomas and King (Mike Scanlon, CEO). The letter was ignored.Our lawyer wrote another letter on July 25, 2007.On August 3, 2007 Thomas & King, Inc. Legal Department finally responded. Mr Jonathan R. Weatherby, Jr. Associate General Counsel wrote “we regret that Ms. Ryan left without being served and would like the opportunity to personally invite her to return” …. “we are also considering keeping blankets in the restaurants for use by breast-feeding mothers that may not have them readily available as a result of this incident.”My husband gasped when he read this response. They just don’t get it.
My midwife suggested I speak with the Senator that spearheaded getting the KRS211.755 law. I left a message for Senator Tom Buford and the next day he called me back. I asked him what recourse I had. He said “If you take them to small claims court you could get up to $1,500.00″ …. “if you take them to a higher court you may not even get enough to cover your legal fees.” I told the Senator I was not interested in money. I want things to change. I want public attention on this cause. I have daughters that will someday breastfeed. I want action not money. I told Senator Buford about my nurse in/out idea and he thought it sounded great. In fact he said “let me know the date and I will come by and support you” …. he also said “hold a sign up saying -small children are not allowed to eat in this restaurant.” I said “can I quote you on that” and he said “yes!” Senator Buford said “next time any one does this tell them to call the police and get a police report written up on it.”The planned event is to draw attention to Applebee’s restaurant. Friends and supporters will decorate posters and display them for all to see.
it would be fine to put money away, if you could afford to do so. There are too many people who can’t make the monthly bills without health insurance, much less put away for later.
I would question how they worded it. Did I choose to not have health insurance, even though it was available to me? Yes and no. I chose not to because I COULD NOT AFFORD IT. Not because I didn’t want it.
What is the income requirements for healthwave…and does that extend to families?
Maybe a lawsuit will remind Applebees of the law and make sure you invite the media to your protest
CapnAmerica
Why, other people do it. Since when did you become management. Maybe I should change it to No Name or Trollslayer but I am not allowed to ban trolls here :(. Blank sounds blase.
You will know its me because I post respectably. I am sure some would not agree since I am not toeing their political belief line.
I think one reason we lost respect for each other was because the internet allows anonymity (spelling?). Would the trolls on this site say the same things in person as they do here? Probably not. Whereas I would and do. I have no neolib or neocon friends because it goes against their beliefs. I have many con, lib, and mod friends because they are willing to debate and not argue. Sometimes they change my mind on an issue, and sometimes I change their minds. Either way, we do it in a respectful and courteous manner. Is that too much to ask on the blog? I may not agree with your opinion, but I am not going to launch into some troll tirade belittling you with a personal attack. You have your opinion, I have mine, and somewhere in the middle is reality.
One thing I find almost funny is how people here are trying to solve the country’s problems when even if you find a solution, here is not where the change will occur. It will occur in the real world and how many of you are willing to turn your actions here into real world actions? I do, I write or e-mail my elected officials on issues that I support or dont support. If enough people do that, we are not powerless and can make a change. I may be an extreme opptimist, but I believe change starts locally and spreads globally. You can make a difference, but complaining about it here is not the solution unless you put your complaints where they need to be heard. Martin Luther King Jr, recognized that we need peaceful confrontation to get change. It worked. Some of his supporters tried to discourage him, but he persisted, even though he paid the ultimate price. How many here are willing to die for their beliefs? A belief not worth dying for is rarely worth it in my book. I am not advocating you go get killed, but the willingness to risk death. How many civil rights workers died or were beaten in the early 60s to support King’s view?
No name,
Thank you for your co-operation in helping to make the WEBlog a pleasant experience.
The Management
No name writes, “I prefer having my own account and putting that money where I want it. Social Security has about an average 1-2% return on what you put in it.”
Where’d you hear that, Rush Limbaugh?
Let’s say you make an average of 40 K over the lifetime of paying into SS. That’s about 2500 a year into SS. Let’s say you work 35 years paying into the system. That’s very close to 100K.
When you retire, you’ll get about 20K a year.
Okay. Now you die at age 64. You get ZERO return on your “investment.” Let’s say you live until you’re 95.
You get 600,000 K back. You made 600 percent on what you put in.
I don’t know how that figures out as a percentage per year, but it’s gotta be better than your “1 or 2″ percent . . .
Lawrence – Crummy new homes and high taxes
Sales Tax Creates Unfair Burden
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/apr/30/sales_tax_creates_unfair_burden/
=====
Lawrence where the opportunity to buy a brand new $160,000 fixer upper is always on the table. The word is out that Lawrence is sliding into a buyers market however the aforementioned opportunity still exists so is that trulya buyers market? or a way to unload crummy constructed homes? It is my understanding some are not crummy but who knows which is which?
=====
The two polls below reveal not a lot of confidence in the current city commission,county commission or planning commission which may be right on the money. No more mismanagement of Lawrence,Kansas.
This also tells me that citizens do not see a need for further expansion because there are tons of existing ventures and properties yet to be put to use that are currently connected to infrastructure.
Why raise the taxpayer bill by annexing further plus installing new infrastructure when it is not necessary. This cannot be justified simply because a developer gets a wild idea. My tax dollars say do not do this.
East Hills Business Park has two empty warehouses one that that was built just in case someone came to town. It has been a few years now.
Farmland Industries is on the table and connected to infrastructure awaiting a buyer of which Lawrence may become the owner and if so will likely need to cough up tax dollars to help clean up the site. Whether or not Lawrence becomes owner it will be purchased for development.
http://www2.ljworld.com/polls/2007/aug/what_do_you_think_proposed_new_sales_tax_lawrence/
http://www2.ljworld.com/polls/2007/sep/why_do_you_think_lawrence_growth_lagging/
Some say it’s not the taxpayers/citizens business yet it is the taxpayers/citizens tax bills/user fees that continue to increase. As taxpayers have become defacto investors all of this activity CERTAINLY is our business.
The two local polls say to me that taxpayers do not want the money spent on new unproven ideas regarding economic growth and blame local government policies for not producing enough in the right direction. What I’ve heard so many times is take care of existing infrastructure such as older neighborhoods ,Downtown and make existing areas of light industrial and vacant commercial show solid revenue production before taking on more tax debt under the guise of planning ahead.
The two polls reveal not a lot of confidence in the current city commission,county commission or planning commission which may be right on the money. It is not their jobs to further mismanage this city and county. Taxpayers/Citizens want mismanagement to stop!
New statistics show that the total number of homeowners who got foreclosure notices between April and June hit an all time high. It marked the third consecutive quarter that a new record has been set. This says to me the economy generally speaking is not on solid ground.
Healthwave has fairly high income limits depending on the size of the family (at least by Ks. standards it would be pretty high), I believe the coverage is for children up to the age of 18.
Has the president actually lied to the public about Social Security?
Yes. President Bush has repeatedly said that those who put their money in private accounts are “guaranteed” a better return than they’ll receive from the current Social Security system. But every sale of stock on the stock market includes the disclaimer: “the return on this investment is not guaranteed and may be negative”–for good reason. During the 20th century, there were several periods lasting more than 10 years where the return on stocks was negative. After the Dow Jones stock index went down by over 75% between 1929 and 1933, the Dow did not return to its 1929 level until 1953. In claiming that the rate of return on a stock investment is guaranteed to be greater than the return on any other asset, Bush is lying. If an investment-firm broker made this claim to his clients, he would be arrested and charged with stock fraud. Michael Milken went to jail for several years for making just this type of promise about financial investments.
In fact, under the most likely version of the Bush privatization proposal, a 20-year old worker joining the labor force today would see her guaranteed Social Security benefits reduced by 46%con’t:http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2005/0505orr.html
Capn,
As I said before I dont listen to Rush nor any of those other radio people. Only unwise people listen to the extremists on either side of the political spectrum.
I agree if you live long enough you will do better. But most people dont live to 95. As to number, it was based off a govt. site and it is a few years old, but I havent seen that much improvement in Social Security. I know a bunch of people on Social Security that dont make more than 12K or less a year.
I have checked with financial advisors on how much I could make in a fairly conservative, low risk account over the next 21 years investing the amount I pay into Social Security now and I looked at my Social Security statement of projected retirement and it was twice as much. If I went less conservative but more risk, the returns increased substantially, but there was risk involved. The getter the return, the greater the risk. If you are younger, your prospects are even better.
As to your dying at 64, the age is increasing to 67 for benefits for the younger crowd. You do make a good point, but under my scenario, the money in my account would go to my heirs. Under Social Security that money does not. However, when Social Security was first founded, the average life expectancy was 63 compared to drawing it at 65. The current life expectancy is in the mid to upper 70s depending on your gender.
As a FYI, Social Security was also never meant to be your only source of retirement. That is why the fed. govt. has a mandatory pension and an optional 401K type plan for its employees.
Also, capn, what happens when the Boomers drain Social Security and the younger people get nothing after paying in that 87.5K? The usual argument I hear is that the govt. will do something.
Richard I am not a fan of Bush’s plan, but it is a starting point. How aggressive you want to be and how much risk you want to take will determine whether or not private accounts will do better than Social Security. There are certain funds that average a lot more than Social Security. In some years, they do worse, but the 10+ year average can be as high as 30% return. If you are really gutsy (or maybe stupid depending on how the outcome turns out), you can get better returns.
Another reason I was against Bush’s plan was the govt. got to keep control of the money until it was paid out if I understood his plan correctly. If the govt. cant keep its hands off my Social Security, why should I trust them to keep my hands off that money?
According to one study, we are saving too much for retirement. The flaw in that argument was they were limiting the research to those born in the 30s.
You should be getting a yearly statement from Social Security showing your expected retirement amount as well as your expected disability amount. Consider if that amount is enough to live on when you reach retirement age. Dont forget to factor in inflation at whatever rate you think it will be by then.
“In claiming that the rate of return on a stock investment is guaranteed to be greater than the return on any other asset, Bush is lying.”
The goverment needs to get out of the “retirement fund” business and leave us alone. Give us our money back. Those too stupid to know what to do will be claimed by Darwin. It’s a socialist concept that needs to die.
That does nothing for adults without health insurance. That’s what I was talking about.
“In view of the large families of the Slav native population, it could only suit us if girls and women there had as many abortions as possible. We are not interested in seeing the non-German population multiply…We must use every means to install in the population the idea that it is harmful to have several children, the expenses that they cause and the dangerous effect on woman’s health.”. . . from Hitler’s 1942 statement enforcing abortion upon Slavic people. . .
“We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.”. . . from Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger’s letter, written a few months after Hitler’s invasion of Poland. . .
Legislative committee member Rep. Oletha Faust-Goudeau on Thursday claimed that women having more than 3 children are shunned in the black community (apparently to justify post-viable abortions and an abortion rate 3 times higher in the black community).
“That does nothing for adults without health insurance.”
Boo Hoo. Do something about it.I don’t have a big screen TV. Should the goverment provide me one?
a big screen tv is not even the same thing as life, fleets enema.
Oleo, just the other day I posted the real statement Sanger made…without the spin from your side. I know you choose to lie rather than tell the truth, despite your whole god thing.
NOBODY supports forced abortions. Are you just as nazi-like to support forced birth? I believe so.
that’s right there, the exact thing I talk about when I say ‘if it makes you feel better about yourself”.
“a big screen tv is not even the same thing as life, fleets enema.”
Of course not, whore.
HA!
Where’d JM go again?
It is really all the same principle.
Why stop at health care?
If it is about life, then we really need the government to support us in 3 major areas:
1. food2. water3. shelter
All of these things we need to live, just not health care. Actually we need those 3 things more than health care.
So the government should provide us our food, our water, and our shelter as well.
I say we go ahead and socialize those things to.
And since the government is picking up the tab on all those things we need to live?
Use the rest to buy yourself that big screen TV.
I am talking 72 inch plasma baby, you can afford it now!
I am totally appauled! As a former 10 year President of The Board of Directors for The Kansas African American Museum, Inc., it was under my leadership that we hired Mr. Key for the facility. Upon his arrival, changes quickly began to take form. The city, county, state, and community immediately saw the much needed changes and the majority welcomed the changes. Mr. Key has done so much for the likes of the building, even taking the step to have it moved to another location and still keeping the doors open at the current location, currently in process. It is not clear to me “what the board of directors” could be in search of if Mr. Key was not or is not doing his job. What is really the problem here? It is the job of THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS! Mr. Key is only as good and effective as the board…he is the foot solider, so to speak. So, if the board is saying that Mr. Key is not effective, he is not by himself. He was very effective on the day to day operations of the museum and with a very small staff. He continues to build and lift up the museum! NOT TEAR IT DOWN! Mr. Key is the best person for the leadership for the and at the musuem. We need Mr. Key! We need Mr. Key!!!!
If only you had used 6 exclamation points, you would have had it.Oh well. Better luck next time.
Keep us abreast of the situation PMom. :)
“”"The job market took a serious and unexpected turn for the worse last month, raising the risk of a recession and putting added pressure on the Federal Reserve to move more aggressively to keep the ailing housing industry from infecting the rest of the economy.”"”
These are just minor bumps on an otherwise really good road. The economy is now in its 69th month of expansion and things still look quite good for the coming holiday sales season. All I can say is get the mall early this year because it is gonna be a barn burner!
I wonder how many $$$$ worth of unclaimed Soc. Sec. funds are put back into the system every year, because the owner of the account DIED before he age necessary to collect, and left no heirs of the proper age, to draw from it???
That might be helpful to know…
“”"Does anyone think that a Democratic Congress with a Democratic President is a good thing?”"”"
Yes because then we can tell the Democrats that they have one last chance to get it right. And if they screw things up this time, I am ready to go for a 3rd party. No more promises and pandering. I want to see results.
Social Security is not in any trouble and does not need to be “fixed”. This was all just a smoke screen by the GOP to really get rid of Social Security because they never supported it or Medicare anyway. They would love to see it dumped but they don’t have the political guts to say what their real agenda is because they will LOSE if they do. So they tried to destory it piecemeal by “privatization” or just a “small part” of it. Reminds me of the gun control nuts who say “oh we just want to outlaw assault rifles” when we all know what the REAL agenda is. They want ALL guns outlawed. Same with the anti abortion people who say “oh we just want to outlaw late term abortions”. Yeah, and if we outlaw Dr Tiller’s butcher shop and meat market, are you then going to say “oh we are happy now” and go home? The GOP attacks on the New Deal are no different. You know not everybody is STUPID out here.
Didnt they have that last chance under the early Clinton years? That is when they lost my vote to third party candidates. Some of my Republican friends have also joined the third party bandwagon.
In the past, both parties would grab the platforms away from third parties, but enough people are getting fed up with both parties that a third party is becoming viable. It may take a while, but it is getting there. Pre 1860, the Republican Party was not considered viable.
NEWS FLASH >>>>> (tongue in cheek)
A recent survey has compiled all the qualities that people expect from the perfect pastor:
Results of a computerized survey indicated that the perfect pastor preaches
exactly 12 minutes.
He frequently condemns sin but never upsets anyone.
He works from 8 a.m. until midnight and is also a janitor.
He makes $60 a week, wears good clothes, buys good books, drives a good car,
and gives about $80 a week to the poor.
He is 28 years of age, but he’s been preaching for 30 years.He is wonderfully gentle and handsome.
He gives himself completely but never gets too close to anyone to avoid criticism.
He speaks boldly on social issues, but must never become politically involved.
He has a burning desire to work with teenagers,
but he spends all his time with senior citizens.
He makes 15 daily calls to parish families, visits shut-ins and the hospitalized, spends all his time evangelizing the unchurched, and is always in his office when needed.
“”"If it is about life, then we really need the government to support us in 3 major areas:
1. food2. water3. shelter
All of these things we need to live, just not health care. Actually we need those 3 things more than health care.
So the government should provide us our food, our water, and our shelter as well.
I say we go ahead and socialize those things to.
Posted by: Nathan | September 08, 2007 at “”"”
I agree. The government should be a provider of last resort of those basic things. Neither people nor dogs should be homeless, hungry or without water. We even provide those things to serial killers like Dennuts Raider so we can certainly provide basic things to everybody else.
“”"”That does nothing for adults without health insurance.”
Boo Hoo. Do something about it.I don’t have a big screen TV. Should the goverment provide me one?”"”"
TV is a luxury. The things you need for life are not.
Kev,
Keep thinking that Social Security is not in trouble, but it is. According to nonpartisan govt. agencies it is. Sure, they mention 2041 (I think that was the last year I saw) before it becomes a big issue. Social Security requires you have enough people paying into it to keep it working. Short of allowing a huge influx of immigrants or another Baby Boom, our population is aging fast.
Is it better to fix it now than to wait until 2041? The cost of fixing it now can be carried over the next 30+ years vs. the cost of fixing it in 2030 or later.
Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. It only works as long as you have enough people paying in that the current recipients can use the money. We are looking at 79 million Boomers retiring between 2010 and 2020. You dont think that is going to tax the system. Only 39 – 40 million Gen X and Gen Y will be replacing them. Do the research if you dont believe me.
Britain recently realized that with their version of Social Security and instituted changes that hopefully solved the problem. Japan and other industrial nations with similar problems will be facing the issue sooner than we will or about the same time.
“”"”was just wanting to inform you of a nurse in at Applebees on Saturday the 8th at noon. We will meet at the Applebees on N. ROCK RD2035 North Rock Road, Ste 101Wichita, KS 67206
Here is why we will be meeting:
On June 14th (my anniversary) a few of my children (I have 8) took me to Applebee’s for lunch. For my own privacy I asked for the corner booth. I sat facing into the “”"”
If you want to nurse a baby, you should either cover up or take it outside. Otherwise, use a bottle. Other diners don’t wish to see you nursing while they eat. Should you not have some consideration for them too? There are 2 sides to every story and while your nursing would not bother me, it bothers some people. Would you change the baby at the table? I would hope not!
The whole “return on investment” argument regarding Social Security is bogus. It’s as if you were claiming, “if I didn’t have to pay for insurance on my Chevy, I could afford a Porsche.”
Social Security is not an investment program, it’s an insurance program. I have a friend of a friend whose husband was murdered last spring. She gets Social Security widow’s benefits and her three daughters will get benefits ’til they’re 18. SSI disability benefits are also part of Social Security.
It’s a social insurance plan, and comparing it with anything else is a fraudulent tactic of so-called “conservatives” who’d like to socialize Wall Street. Social Security is a safety net for the oldest, weakest, and most unfortunate. Social Security is the most successful government program in the history of Western Civilization.
And that’s why “conservatives” hate it: it’s a government program. Ideologues simply cannot accept the truth that the program works, despite proving their ideololgies wrong. And so they lie about Social Security. They compare it to private investment schemes and hope their lies will distract from the real issue.
George WMD Bush tried to “fix” Social Security last year (in the same way you “fix” your dog; leaving it impotent). He failed, despite all that political clout he claimed to have earned after the 2004 election. Too many lies finally started to catch up with him.
Good post, LTPFTL.
Exactly right.
Chas, I sent you an e-mail. Enjoyed the “canstruction.”
“”"Kev,
Keep thinking that Social Security is not in trouble, but it is. According to nonpartisan govt. agencies it is. Sure, they mention 2041 (I think that was the last year I saw) before it becomes a big issue. Social Security requires you have enough people paying into it to keep it working. Short of allowing a huge influx of immigrants or another Baby Boom, our population is aging fast.”"”
That is true BUT what people do not take into consideration is this – people RETIRE much later now. I agree, if everybody walked off the job at 65, SS might have some trouble but the fact is that almost NOBODY retires at 65 anymore. That was a retirement age back in the industrial days where hard manual labour was done. In the economy we have today, most people are working well into the 70s and even 80s which means they are still paying INTO the system many more years rather than drawing OUT of it.
Long time it is only viable as long as enough people are paying to support those receiving it. Once the outflow exceeds the inflow, the govt. is going to have to funnel more and more of the general budget into Social Security. Social Security is not just a safety net, it is for anyone that has paid enough into it. If you have paid enough, you will receive it regardless of how much you are making at the time.
Dont take my word for it, wait until closer to 2041 and see what happens. The smoke screen is coming from those in denial. Congress has known about the issue since the 70s at least and maybe as early as the 50s. Their philosophy has been to let someone else deal with the problem many years down the road. They made changes in the 70s or the 80s which pissed off a bunch of the older people that got shafted by the changes.
If I am wrong, no harm done. If I am right, then I hope you have adequate retirement funds in 401Ks or IRAs. I dont follow Republican or Democratic ideologies. I do my own research using the least biased, preferably unbiased, sites and information available.
Bush remains silent while Israel attacks Syria using US war planes.
http://www.haaretz.com/
No-name poster writes, “As I said before I dont listen to Rush nor any of those other radio people.”
Hey, Jeenyous, I don’t know who YOU are because you don’t have a name.
Sheesh . . .
“I agree if you live long enough you will do better. But most people dont live to 95.” The AVERAGE lifespan for women in the United States is 80. That average includes all the babies that died at birth and pulled the average down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
Many many millions of people are going to live past 90, and I plan to be one of them.
“Dont take my word for it, wait until closer to 2041 and see what happens.”
G W Bush claimed that Social Security would be broke in 1988.
It actually was and IS the only thing that isn’t broke. Social security is the only gov’t program that collects more money than it pays out.
Would you change the baby at the table? I would hope not!
Posted by: Kev | September 08, 2007 at 04:34 PM
===========================
That is not even an attempt at a viable analogy…. Breast feeding just happens to be the most NATURAL way for a mother to feed her child… She doesnt carry around that “milk” to put into your coffee!!
And for ANYBODY to be offended by the BEST example of motherhood available, has to be just plain NUTS, or some kind of religious wacko, or something else very strange wrong with them…
C’mon, if you want to object to it, at LEAST find a reasonable analogy, instead of talking about changing diapers at a public eating table… Geez…
For now, but it wont be in several more years. I dont care what G W Bush said. I have done the research. Have you? It will reach a point where the paid in is exceeded by the paid out. That wouldnt be as big a problem if the govt. had not been stealing from it as long as it had, and leaving IOUs to cover the theft.
Since you like Wikipedia, I added the below. Yes, there are some that argue it will be okay, but they show no proof.
According to some current projections based on the system’s current revenue and benefit structure, expenses will exceed tax receipts beginning in 2020 or 2022. The Trust Fund is projected to continue to grow for several years thereafter because the analyses assume interest income from loans made to the US Treasury is available to cover the difference. The funds from loans made have been spent along with other revenues in the general funds in satisfying annual budgets. At some point, however, absent any change in the law, the Social Security Administration will finance payment of benefits through the net redemption of the assets in the Trust Fund. Because those assets consist solely of U.S. government securities, their redemption will represent a call on the federal government’s general fund, which for decades has been borrowing the Trust Fund’s surplus and applying it to its expenses to partially satisfy budget deficits. To finance such a projected call on the general fund, some combination of increasing taxes, cutting other government programs, selling government assets, or borrowing would be required.
The balances in the Trust Fund are projected to be depleted either by 2042 (OASDI Trustees’ projection), or by 2052 (Congressional Budget Office’s projection) assuming proper and continuous repayment of the outstanding Treasury Notes. At that point, under current law, the system’s benefits would have to be paid from the FICA tax alone. Revenues from FICA are projected at that point to be sufficient to cover only about 73% of projected expenses if no change is made to the current tax and benefit schedules.
From the Social Security site itself, which should be worth something. They mention 2017 instead of 2021/2022 for the shortfall.
http://socialsecurity.gov/pressoffice/pr/trustee07-pr.htm
In the 2007 Annual Report to Congress, the Trustees announced:
The projected point at which tax revenues will fall below program costs comes in 2017 — the same as the estimate in last year’s report.
The projected point at which the Trust Funds will be exhausted comes in 2041 — one year later than the projection in last year’s report.
The projected actuarial deficit over the 75-year long-range period is 1.95 percent of taxable payroll — .06 percentage point smaller than in last year’s report.
Over the 75-year period, the Trust Funds would require additional revenue equivalent to $4.7 trillion in today’s dollars to pay all scheduled benefits. This unfunded obligation is about $100 billion higher than the amount estimated last year.
“Social Security provides valuable economic protection to workers and their families. We owe it to the American public to continue to offer the best possible support for older Americans, people with disabilities and their families in the coming decades,” said Michael J. Astrue, Commissioner of Social Security. “The Trustees Report is an important tool for those in the legislative and executive branches who will have to make the very difficult decisions about how best to ensure Social Security remains viable for the long term.”
Apologies, but I have to go. Life calls.
“No-name,
Posting without a nic is kind of rude.”
Why? It almost insures that persons anonymity …….. supposedly a strong point of blogging ………..
Heard on the radio that the prices of fruits and vegetables will more than double unless the immigration problem is resolved soon?
I thought there were 12-30 million illegals alreday here to do that work ? Have they left ? Or will folks in the ag business start paying a better wage? I wonder what a lettuce / strawberry / grape etc field worker is paid? Doesn’t it also include some room and board for the seasonal workers?
Robot machines will eventually replace the agricultural worker and of course industrial robots already have.
Robot machines will eventually replace the agricultural worker and of course industrial robots already have.Posted by: Kansas | September 08, 2007 at 05:57 PM
wtf?
LOL
“If you want to nurse a baby, you should either cover up or take it outside. Otherwise, use a bottle. Other diners don’t wish to see you nursing while they eat. Should you not have some consideration for them too?”
I think if people have a problem with breasts being used for their biological purpose, that’s their problem. It’s not a nursing mother or her baby’s fault that you see boobs and think “PORN!” and it makes you uncomfortable. Some babies don’t really like to be stuffed under shirts or blankets in order to eat.
Alternatively, you could just not stare.
breast pumpsbottlesrefrigeration
Those who are offended at breast feeding have a real problem. There is nothing offensive or gross about it…so grow up or just don’t look.
Kansas you just got pwned.
Thanks Mary!
So which troll is really bad troll?
Too scared to post under your own nic? Yep scared.
If a woman knows how to breast properly in public, then that’s fine. Flopping it out in public without covering yourself is neither appropriate or good manners.
how to breast = how to breast feed
Oh please…there is nothing rude or distasteful about nursing a baby. I think you have a real hangup, Kansas. My daughter-in-law doesn’t cover up when she nurses my granddaughter..I think it’s beautiful and I’m very proud of her. If it offends anyone then that’s their problem.I’m much more offended by the sagging pants, exposed underwear, and butt cracks, tight tops and pants on those with “muffin tops”, those who play their getto music as loud as possible, and others who think the “F-word” is used for every noun, verb, or adjective in their grammer. When it comes to breast feeding, that’s at the bottom of the list of things to be offended by. Get a grip!
Okay Chas, when ever you want to stop trolling, let us know.
We disagree Mary, but that’s not new.
If a woman is modest in public, then I have no problem with it.
Still think “per os” is by bone Mary? :)
When will you stop accusing everyone of being me?
This is about the sixth time you keep thinking that I am Chas or cosmos or kev or god knows who.
I’m just me and always have been.
This board isn’t real life Kansas.
It’s mostly entertainment like the old vox populi radio shows.
Get a grip.
How about you get a grip and post under your regular nic.
Jeez, is this REALLY Kansas complaining about a nic switcher?
Christ.
“Still think “per os” is by bone Mary? :)”
Excuse me?
I did not say that I was offended by breast feeding. I said that while it does NOT bother me, it DOES bother some other people when they are eating and mother wishes to publicly nurse in a restaurant without covering up. Personally it is perfectly fine with me. In fact, I don’t care if the waitress serves in the nude. But others feel differently.
I made a follow up comment to one of your posts Mary and mentioned, BID, per os and other Latin terms often used in the Medical field.
You replied to me with a “per os?” by bone?
Okay really bad troll, reported for stalking me.
I don’t think you read my post right..I never said “per bone?”..I think I said “per left eye?”
Could be Mary, been awhile. But that’s not what it means anyway. :D
Dexter and Sinister are designations for the eye isn’t it?
OS is left eye and OD is right eye.
Let’s vote: breast feeding in restaurants bad, smoking in restaurants fine.
Ah, I see where you got that.
It’s O.S. and O.D. which stand for oculus dexter and oculus sinister. The abbreviation includes the “.”
Without it, it because another word root, aka “os”
“per os” is by way of mouth.
But, I can see why you made the mistake that you did.
Breastfeeding in restaurants good, smoking in restaurants bad. That’s my vote. I never heard of anyone having health problems from second hand nursing.
I don’t like restaurant where smoking is allowed, it tends to ruin the experience of smelling and tasting food when a cloud of smoke migrates to your table.
PO is by mouth. I’m talking in medical terms
It’s p.o., use those periods. :)
“I never heard of anyone having health problems from second hand nursing.”
Only the guys that do not have enough class or decency to stop staring.
Eye strain, you know.
Breast feeding is normal and natural and should be encouraged for all infants. Those that have a problem with it should just get a freakin’ life.
When healthcare professionals chart, we don’t use periods in the abbreviations.
Ah, okay Mary – guess I was being too much of a Latin purist. :)
breast pumpsbottlesrefrigerationPosted by: Kansas | September 08, 2007 at 07:53 PM
Yeeee-uck. I ain’t even a grrl and I am grossed out by dipshit’s weird – and dainty – righteousness.
What are you, a grandma?!?
Breastfeeding is as about as natural as life gets. Thank Buddha for the gift.
Jesus Farking Christ.
Deal with it, dipshit. Yer genital discomfort at the sight of a suckling infant is about as significant as flyshit on a turd.
PO, SQ, IM, et, mg, OD, OS, HS, QOD, prn, ml, mcg, BID, TID, QD, BS, BP, HR, SN, ADL’s, IADL’s, CHF, COPD, DMll, ac, pc,…can you tell me what all those mean..afterall you’re the expert aren’t you?
Hey Pendant!! I’m a GRANDMA and I think breastfeeding is great!
Well, I ain’t but I agree!
What’s dipshit’s excuse?
His mom must have bottlefed him!
His mom must have bottlefed him!
Somehow, Kansas is attempting to spin Breastfeeding into a Left/Right issue… Also, attempting to convince everybody that he is now an expert in Latin as well…. LOL…. This is a most sorry stretch of Blog…
I think there are VERY FEW people who object to Breast Feeding… And to those that are, I say to them GET A LIFE!!
And if they try to make it sexual… I say, GET A BRAIN!!!
I cant think of a more perfect image of the “Mother and Child Reunion” than a mother breast feeding her child — In the park, in a restaurant, in a library, at a ball game… it doesnt matter…. PURE Nature hard at work!!
I see the foul-mouthed Pedant has returned.
No Mary, it was an observation and the correct usage of the Latin terms.
As far as breast-feeding is concerned, I have no problem with it being done in public as long as it is discreet.
It is a bodily fluid that is being excreted and caution should be taken.
I see the “spin-master” Chas has weighed in and passed judgment.
And not only that, IT IS A LAW in Kansas… Opposing breast feeding in restaurant must be some kind of a perversion…
In fact, I must now reconsider if I want to eat at Applebees anymore… given the way they treated that mother….
Kansas… there is no SPIN involved… Just the Facts… And I have NEVER heard of any diseases being spread by a mother breastfeeding her baby!!
YOU are the one spinning this thing out of the realm of even decent conversation!!
“Also, attempting to convince everybody that he is now an expert in Latin as well”Posted by: Chas. | September 08, 2007 at 09:47 PM
Look it up Chas, or better yet, ask your pharmacist what the proper designations are.
I was somewhat surprised that Mary confused per os which means by mouth as in her words “per left eye?”
Needless to say, medicine given by the mouth could be quite dangerous if applied to the eye.
I don’t think a patient would be very sympathetic is someone poured an oral medication in their left eye.
So yes, proper designation is very important.
“A bodily fluid being excreted”..you’re kidding right? Mother’s milk is on the same level as urine? What if I was crying? Would it be rude of me to not hide my tears?
“And I have NEVER heard of any diseases being spread by a mother breastfeeding her baby!!” Posted by: Chas. | September 08, 2007 at 09:52 PM
Perhaps you need to educate yourself on this further then Chas.
I wouldn’t be very concerned with tears Mary as long as you didn’t have SARS and throw your tissue at people when finished. :)
Disease can be spread to the baby by nursing, but not to the other people in the same room.
I had no idea that my optometrist is a Doctor of Right Eye (O.D.) I really need to get my Latin textbook out and do some updating…
NPO = nothing by mouthBID = used to mean “twice daily”
the “O” in NPO has something to do with “mouth”
Other than that, I dont see anything about breastfeeding that needs to include Latin abbreviations….
Oh, and by the way, mother’s milk isnt a contaminate, Kansas…
Please dont make such disparaging remarks, and then say you really arent opposed to breastfeeding in public — and then say it should be discreet…
How moronic…
PS, as long as those other people in the room aren’t nursing off of her!
I know what can be spread from Mother to Baby in breastfeeding… But as Mary says, not to anybody else in the room… Geez, Kansas, NO I dont need to read up on it…. GEEZ!!!
Good point Mary… better get that in there, or that might be the next ad hominem from Kansas!! LOL
Asking for discreetness is not moronic Chas.
What is moronic is your statement
“Other than that, I dont see anything about breastfeeding that needs to include Latin abbreviations….”
The Latin and breasting feeding were discussed under different approaches Chas. You are the one confusing the matter, by mixing them matter into one subject.
If I talked about reading newspapers and starting camp fires in the same thread Chas, would you be concerned that I’m a pyro-maniac? :)
That would depend on whether you had a can of kerosene, or a box of matches, I suppose… :-)
So Mary, since you are a medical professional answer some questions for me.
Breasts never squirt or leak right? I mean, a drop of milk could never fall on a table nor could it squirt out.
A woman with a staph infection that is unaware of said condition, touching the table or perhaps item on the table with her breast (salt shakers, etc.) shouldn’t be concerned that a food handler could become cross-contaminated with said infection?
Breastfeeding needs to be openly accepted in public like other cultures. Our babies would be healthier for it.I remember how selfconscious I was about nursing my babies…I didn’t nurse them long or often enough because of it. It’s really hard to maintain your milk when you’re feeding on demand and you’re worried about what others think. Putting other’s opinions ahead of your child’s needs is a mistake.
Good Lord, grasping at straws… More disparaging remarks about breast feeding…
Kansas, if you had ANY credibility about ANYthing… You have lost it totally by reaching into the deepest darkest corners of possibility, to try to make your assinine point….
I think its time for you to take your little troll to bed….
Mary, could you update me a bit, as to what the latin abbreviations about mouth, etc., have to do with the breast feeding issue?? It certainly looked like there was some connection??
No Kansas, I’ve had a staph infection in my breast when I was nursing and believe me, there is no way a woman wouldn’t know she had an infection. I’d say the chances of her contaminating a salt shaker is so remote that it’s not a concern. Even IF she managed to do that, the virus wouldn’t survive long enough for a waiter to pick it up, and if he did, it wouldn’t survive long enough to be transmiited to someone else. The chances of you winning the lottery is much greater than you picking up an infection because some woman got her breast milk on a salt shaker. I’ve never seen breast milk “shoot out” anyway. Ha! That’s funny to imagine though!
It’s called intelligent discussion Chas.
Quite sad you can’t tell the difference.
I don’t think there was a connection, but you COULD say that a nursing baby is getting his milk “po” (by mouth)!
I asked for an explanation, and YOU Kansas, hit the attack button… Very nice… You have nothing else to add, so you attack a poster asking an honest question…
BTW, the discussion didnt look all that intelligent on your part… unless you now want to claim to be an expert in Latin…
Point taken Mary. Wasn’t sure about the “shooting out” part, as I have never lactated. :)
BTW, I’m pretty sure Staphylococcus is not a virus and it is a known food-borne illness agent that causes problem in the food service industry.
Thank you Mary… it is as I thought… Kansas trying to draw attention away from the subject, to insert his alleged expertise in Latin abbreviations…
Thank you!! And also, you are right on target with your explanation of the short life of the staph infection… AND about how the mother would know about it nearly immediately, and not attempt to feed a baby if she had such an infection…
Okay Chas, so I guess your terms of “moronic” and your words making it appear that I’m trying to spin into a “left right” issue is not ad hominem. :)
“”"I think there are VERY FEW people who object to Breast Feeding… And to those that are, I say to them GET A LIFE!!”"”"
While it does not bother me to see it, there are probably quite a few people that object to it. It is a common complaint in restaurants and on airplanes. I think folks are uncomfortable with it because they consider a woman’s tits to be “dirty” because of our puritanic history. Many people consider that to be obscene. Neither breast feeding mothers nor nude women bother me. Hustler magazine does not offend me either. But if I read Hustler, I don’t hold it wide open on the subway in front of other people because I recognize that different people have different standards as to what offends them. I am just saying that we should give other people and their feelings some consideration even if they are prudes.
Oh and Chas, you don’t need to be the Blog interpreter for everything I post.
Mary and I were having a nice mature chat before you showed up and put your irrelevant “two cents” in.
Staphylococcus aureus is a bacteria..it can be picked up anywhere and everywhere
Thought it was Mary, but it has been many years since my Micro-Biology class. :0
BUT, you really only have to worry about getting a staph infection if you have a break in the skin, like a cut or abrasion. Our skin is a great protector from many illnesses.
Actually it wasnt Ad Hominem… Your statement was moronic regarding breastfeeding… And your comments DO look as if you are trying to spin the discussion into a Left/Right issue…
No Ad Hominem there…
“”"Breastfeeding needs to be openly accepted in public like other cultures. Our babies would be healthier for it.”"”
Other cultures accept lots of things that Americans do not and most likely never will. Canadians have no problem with nudity on TV but Janet Jackson’s tit cost CBS a million dollars in fines here. France has no problem with beer being served in McDonalds or on Sunday. Americans do have a problem with it. Germany has no problem with topless women. America does. But if you look at the telling fact, it is this: in European countries less than 5% of the population attends church regularly. In the USA about 45% do attend regularly.
Testing my fingers for blood sugar, I have constant “pin prick holes” on my finger tips. :)
Never gotten an infection though as I wash my hands before and after.
Christ, now Kansas is complaining that someone else has joined in on a discussion.
Give it up – you only think that it is your personal blog.
Chas can join in if he wants to discuss the topics intelligently and not constantly take passing shots at me.
“Rox, I did not say that 90% could get on Healthwave or SCHIP.”
Blank or whoever you are, here’s your quote:
“…and most of the rest are too lazy to sign up for Healthwave or SCHIP. At least 90% of Americans are coverable under those plans, but many do not sign up.”
Read that last sentence one more time. If you meant something else, then learn to write what you mean.
I will say only this, and then no more… on this subject… As a father of two, and grandfather of five, Seeing a mother breastfeeding her babies is one of the most peaceful moments I can remember… Why some people have to try to turn it into something ugly, or disdainful, or perverse, is simply a tragedy!!
And I can simply say, Mothers, if you breast feed, dont let the nay sayers influence your decision… Feed your babies, the way Nature intended…. Lean on the Laws that protect you… And when applicable consider boycotting restaurants and other establishments who refuse to comply with the Law…
So, now –
Good Night! Good Luck! And God Bless, whatever you conceive God to be!!
Interesting that the number of teen pregnancies is lower in countries that are more omfortable and open with nudity and sexuality.
Good point, Chas…goodnight!
Sounds like there may have been confusion there Rox. This from Kansas Website on SCHIP.
“Funding must be increased during reauthorization. For Congress to maintain their commitment to providehealthcare for low-income children, SCHIP reauthorization must include funds that not only allow forretaining children currently enrolled but allow for more children to access care. There are approximately48,000 uninsured children in Kansas and 70 percent of them are eligible for public health insurance
programs – but to cover more of those children we need to increase the level of SCHIP funding.”
So 70 percent of the uninsured children being eligible would be accurate.
Although, as I read the document, there are limited funds and a long waiting list, so getting qualified for the program may be a tall order.
Very few states have prohibitions on Sunday consumption of alcoholic beverages anymore… In NYC, women can, by law, walk on the streets topless if they choose… Also in a town in New Hampshire…There are also a number of nude beaches in the USA…
Kevin, you point on the “religious” input on such things is interesting… and you might be right in the observation that some religious groups can be terribly prudish on some subjects. It would be an interesting study to find out which subjects, and how far reaching such prudish-ness extends into the activitation of laws…
I remember the Janet Jackson goof up… But, as many times as they showed that clip, I remember only seeing that she had a “pasty” covering that allegedly naked nipple on her breast… All that fuss, and those fines over a “pasty” mercy sakes!!
Ahh yes, America… gotta love it!
Nite All!! Have a great Sunday!!
Breastfeeding can be done very discreetly without a blanket. And it isn’t all that hard to do.
Seriously, if you can’t get over a woman feeding her child, something is wrong with you.
First, you’re more apt to get an infection from someone’s dirty fork or hand on the table than from sterile breast milk.
My breasts did literally squirt out, so I can say for sure that it does happen. I used to have fun with that- I could just push on the top part of my breast and have it like a squirt gun….I’ll leave the details of that one alone. Was hillarious though.
I wasn’t able to breastfeed my son. The infection prevented my milk from coming in. Odd twist, considering how prolific my milk was with my daughter. But at least I didn’t have to go through the drying up.
I think I can undertand why Kansas is Single, never married, with no childern after reading his innane comments reagarding breast feeding, only a perv would be exicited watching a women breast feed.
Squirt gun breast, ahahahaha.
That’s hilarious
Visualize – a mother and child at a public restaurant. Mother sets child down in baby seat to prepare to nurse. Mother undoes clothing and arranges breast for feeding (breast is not covered). Mother picks child up and helps child find nipple and starts nursing. Person sitting 3 feet away can count the veins on woman’s breast between bites of dinner.
Visualize – Mother and child come into restaraut. Mother arranges clothing so only nipple is accessible and picks up baby and helps baby find nipple to nurse. Person sitting 3 feet away doesn’t ever realize that she is nursing or if they do, all they see is babies head and maybe a small amount of breast. No one is harmed or offended.
Most mothers carry a lightweight cloth for burping and other uses.
This can be used for discretion. The baby does not have to be under it, but it can be used for privacy.
Yes, Maggs, of course you’re right.
The reich-wing has to make the human body “eroticised” so they can make everybody feel guilty about being normal.
You can’t set yourself up as the moral guardians of the universe without laying a heavy guilt-trip on everybody else thus making yourself feel morally superior.
Just look at the fundy churches. There’s only one kind of sin: sexual sin. Avarice on the other hand is just good business.
Seems to me that some posters might have lost any kind of credibility, due to their ridiculous postings on breast feeding yesterday… IMHO
Just look at the fundy churches. There’s only one kind of sin: sexual sin.
I see that you are just as full of “it” on Sunday morning as anytime else.
While the “it makes some people uncomfortable” argument tends to gain some points in some corners, it’s specious. Some people are “uncomfortable” when they see same-gendered couples holding hands. Some people are “uncomfortable” when people in a restaurant stop to pray before eating. Some people are “unconfortable” when a hot young woman walks into the place on the arm with an old guy wearing a $1500 suit. Some people are “uncomfortable” when they see a skinny guy dating a fat woman.
According to the anti-breastfeeding contributors to this thread, we should outlaw anything and everything that might make someone, anyone, “uncomfortable.”
I am aware of at least one denomination where you can do almost anything in the past, and still become an ordained minister… except for being divorced!!
Kansas, the shark called again and is DEMANDING that you stop jumping him…
It’s not a matter of breastfeeding making others “uncomfortable” so let’s outlaw it. It’s a matter of realizing that in a public place there is a choice of making a “show” of it or trying to make it a private necessity and realizing that it may make others “uncomfortable” and caring about others feelings. I guess it’s a mothers choice, make it obvious or not. I don’t think I’m saying this very well…but if you don’t want to make a spectacle of yourself, there are other ways.
You mean like making dumb assed posts like yours?
Yes
LOL KFG… re: your comment to Kansas LOL
Oh, and ksfarmgrrl, I have read these blogs for months….um…let’s not go the dumb ass route…..I generally quit reading them because of the dumb asses. I don’t think I need to be specific here.
What really makes me uncomfortable is people who expect a woman to go into the bathroom to breast feed their child. If breast feeding disturbs your sensibilities so much, do the rest of the world a favor and leave.
I was a kid in Ft Worth. There was a huge department store there called Leonards. They had a policy about breast feeding there. If a woman needed a place to sit down to breast feed and there wasn’t a chair handy, a clerk had better be clearing a place on a counter.
Now that’s a humane, Christian policy, and that was way back in the 50s. Too bad some of the posters here can’t share that attitude.
“I don’t think I need to be specific here”
Well, uh, no, we also read Kansas every day…
Lot of judgmental people on this blog. I’ve already stated that I don’t mind breast feeding in public, just as long as it is discreet.
Discreet is a term that can be discussed, but in general I expect most women are modest enough to expose their breasts in a minimal manner if they need to feed their baby.
It’s just common sense and courtesy.
Hey, “Maggs,” you’re right!
You’re *not* “saying this very well.”
Hauling out a tit in the middle of a Chinese restaurant to suckle the kid tells me a lot about the woman involved. It’s borderline tacky behavior, I guess.
But it’s no more tacky behavior than showing up at a grown-up restaurant with a toddler whose most favorite thing is to slap the plates and cry.
In a polite society, you don’t bring toddlers or breast-feeding babies into a grown-up restaurant. Not that it’s any crime; it’s just good manners.
But we’re not a “polite society” anymore, I guess.
I once was in a restaurant where a particularly hot girl in a little black dress crawled up from under the table after — by all observable evidence — giving a 60-something ugly man a blow job.
It told me a lot about her. And, yeah, I’m judgemental enough to think it was inappropriate behavior.
But it’s really none of my business, is it?
I mean, I’d like to think if that particular girl (and she was stunningly attractive) had crawled under my table, I’d've told her let’s do it later. But I can’t guarantee it.
Thing is, there’s nothing erotic associated with a mother nursing her baby, even in public. Yes, it’s technically “sexual,” since most males can’t lactate.
Lot of judgmental people on this blog.Posted by: Kansas | September 09, 2007 at 12:02 PM
LOL
And yer leadin’ the pack, dipshit. Daily.
Exactly. LLP and Kansas said it better. It is all about manners, common sense, and courtesy to others. It is not about sexuality. No reason not to nurse in public, just be polite by not “Hauling out a tit in the middle of a Chinese restaurant”.
“No reason not to nurse in public, just be polite by not ‘Hauling out a tit in the middle of a Chinese restaurant’
Something special about Chinese food????
I think it goes good with oolong tea, myself.
I think a woman should “haul out her tit” to feed a baby anytime she damn well wants to. Only those with hangups and boob obsessions would object. There is nothing tacky, distasteful, or rude about nursing a baby…nothing.
Taking your kids to a restaurant is FINE. What exactly IS an adult restaurant? Western Sizzlin?
I’m really just flat out disgusted by the discussion. A woman feeding her baby the most natural and pure and healthy way, perverted by…who?
I have yet to see any mother nursing who made a spectacle of it.
Looks pretty obvious here who has the hangups, and who doesnt… Hang in there Moms!!! It’s the most natural, peaceful, caring thing a mother can do…
Hehe, I’ll tell you a story about my squirtgun breasts.
Had friends over playing cards one night.
Well…all the sudden I feel something wet on my thigh, and I sit up, and … I had leaked clear down the front of my shirt and was dripping on my thighs from where I had been leaning against the table.
I was ever so embarassed…and there wasn’t any possible way to excuse myself discreetly…I was soaked.
My friends got quite a laugh.
Love it PMom!! Mother of my girls once got me right in the face… while she was sleeping!! Woke me up real fast!! LOL
Now I’ve leaked, but never squirted! I can remember when someone else’s baby would cry and my milk would “let down”, then I’d get soaked if I didn’t have my baby there to nurse!
It’s a trip Mary. I laughed so hard when I first realized I could get them to squirt like that.
Anyone who thinks babies should be fed in public restrooms should have their dinner served to them on a dirty toilet seat cover.