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Open thread 9/3
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Sept. 3, 2007 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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279 Comments
I’m the first, probably not the worst. Happy Labor Day all. May you all benefit from bargaining unit labor.
TODAY, LABOR DAY MONDAY IN THE YEAR OF 2007, IS A GOOD TIME TO REMEMBER YOUR HOLDOVER COUNTY COMMISSIONERS … DAVE UNRUH, TOM WINTERS AND TIM NORTON … WHO ARE BRINGING YOU THE UNNEEDED $300,000,000.13 WHITE ELEPHANT ICE HOCKEY DOWNTOWN ARENA.
Because of the regressive nature of the sales tax, these big tax spending, high paid county commissioners will pay far less percentage wise than WICHITA LABOR for this albatross arena project.
ITS GROTESQUE 1970′S GLASS AND STEEL FASCADE ADJACENT TO WICHITA’S MAIN RAILROAD LINE WILL PROVIDE A BULLS EYE FOR EVERY WIND AND HAIL STORM THAT PASSES THROUGH WICHITA.
Ladies and gentlemen of Wichita — there is still time to stop this white elephant from being built. Somewhere in this town with lots of politicians per square foot of land are individuals who say “I never did want this monstrosity but who am I to protest against the many.”
I guarantee you that quietly a large majority of Sedgwick Countians FLAT OUT DON’T WANT THEIR HARD-EARNED TAXES SPENT ON THE DOWNTOWN ARENA … NOR FOR THE HUMONGOUS OPERATIONAL EXPENSES FOR HEATING, AIR CONDITIONING, ELECTRICITY, NATURAL GAS, MAINTENANCE, MANAGEMENT PEOPLE, INSURANCE FOR GLASS BREAKAGE, JANITOR SERVICES, ETC. THAT MUST BE PAID FOR MANY YEARS INTO THE FUTURE BY SEDGWICK COUNTY TAXPAYERS.
Downtown businesses are RUSHING OUT OF THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS DISTRICT to be gone by the time construction begins.
THE QUESTION IS … DOES WICHITA LABOR LOSE MORE THAN IT WILL GAIN BY BUILDING THIS UNNEEDED, UNWANTED ALBATROSS DOWNTOWN ARENA. NO QUESTION ABOUT THE ANSWER ON THIS LABOR DAY, 2007.
Welcome to Kansas, Republic of Mexico (formerly known as USA)
President Calderon says, “Wherever there is a Mexican, that is Mexico.”
Also,”He boasted that Mexican consulates in the United States have been buttressed to protect the rights of millions of Mexicans living there illegally.”
So much for borders. Apparently, he has been elected President of the World.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/02/AR2007090200652.html?hpid=moreheadlines
Today is Labour Day. Have fun, enjoy it. Give a few dollars to Jerry’s kids- every bit helps. Have a BBQ if the weather is nice. And think about the holiday and what it means and resolve yourselves not to allow the Republicans to continue to destroy our jobs. Resolve to vote Democrat next time.
Unfortunately, I have not seen a Democrat or a Republican willing to do anything about the problem.
It’s Labor Day, the final holiday of the Summer. Here’s hoping everybody can push themselves away from the keyboards long enough to enjoy some time with family and friends.
Mrs XXX and I are headed north to spend the day with family.
I’ve got a question to pose.
Why is stupidity applauded these days?
It’s like we have become such a society that if you screw up, it’s okay. That there should be no stigma to being stupid.
There use to be a stigma against unwed mothers because we knew it was always better to have the two parent household. Now adays if a girl gets pregnant we fall all over ourselves to give aid. The male who was so bold and daring that he was able to ejaculate, (wow, that was tough) made a kid but is somehow applauded for not being held responsible.
A 16 year old girl, who knows where babies come from by the way, will have unprotected sex with a guy who is also 16 and she THINKS this is a good decision? Or an 18 year old who thinks that a 19 year old who works at Sears changing tires, is a GOOD prospect as the father of her child? There is no accountability, we are just suppose to continue to support this stupidity.
The sub prime fiasco we are facing, AGAIN there is NO accountability for making these stupid decisions.
“GEE, I can barely make the payments on this house but in 3 years I have a balloon payment of 4 times the monthly payment, wonder what that means?” Sure hope someones there to take care of this. Sure hope the guvment is there to fix all of this. Sure hope the guvment FORCES those people who make good decisions and pay A LOT of taxes, to fix this.
So picture yourself in the San Francisco bay area. You’re sitting there watching TV and seeing the aftermath of Katrina. WOW, you say to yourself, those homeowners live in a high probability flood area. They don’t pay flood insurance because it is expensive. NOW the guvment comes in and gives them homeowners money and will buy them a new house right in the exact same spot.
Now I live in the Bay Area which has a high probability for earthquakes and I have earthquake insurance, which is also expensive.
WHY would I pay for that insurance when the guvment will just come in and build me another house in the same spot? Hello insurance agent, cancel my policy, the guvment has got me covered.
Now don’t I feel like a fool, making my house payment each month, when all this time I could have pleaded stupidity and the guvment will come in and pay it for me. What a deal?
There is a reason I don’t have a brand new Jaquar sitting in my driveway. I CANNOT AFFORD IT.But still, I WANT IT AND SOMEBODY SHOULD PAY FOR IT.Who will join me in petitioning the guvment to make my Jaguar payment because it is not MY FAULT I can’t make my payment, it is the greedy, evil, corporate, Jaguar and car loan people.
Help me, CRY OUT AGAINST THE EVIL OF FORCING ME TO MAKE RIDICULOUSLY HIGH JAGUAR CAR PAYMENTS. Won’t you please call your senators and represenatives and help me out. I mean I only make 65,000 a year. I can’t afford to make the 845.00 monthly payment and gas and upkeep. Thanks and God bless.
Happy Labor Day all – have some burgers and dogs, maybe a couple of beers it it suits you. Get some sun. Play with the kids/grandkids. Visit friends/relatives.
Then eat some more … we can worry about the cholesterol tomorrow!
Gene what you didn’t point out was that you will be paying that monthly payments for years and years – when it wears out (maybe not a Jag) and you don’t have it paid for just go trade it for a new car and the dealer will just add on what you owe on the old car to what you owe for the new car. What a deal. You are driving a $70,000 car and only owe $100,000. What a deal!!
We send them to school and still don’t educate them. We teach them sex ed and they still don’t know where those kids are coming from. Go figure.
Good, Jwink!
Remember too that Tim Norton has aleady floated the idea of extending the sales tax past its scheduled December 31, 2007 expiration date.
Gene–
You didn’t take my deal. I still haven’t posted in Oregon and you continue to post here.
By the way, the sub-prime mortgage fiasco was not so much people not knowing how to read as it was the Bush administration for not regulating loans like it’s supposed to.
Let shady operators make quick money on bad loans. Yeah, that’s definately EDUCATION’S fault . . .
The amazing thing – I STILL keep seeing all those ads for “Onle $400/month on a zillion dollar loan*”
* but re-sets immediately …
Happy Labor Day, Ben! Now that you mentioned it, I am going to fire up the grill this afternoon.
Last night was the burgers and corn on the cob. Today’s menu is hickory smoked ribs (marinating in the fridge) and chicken breasts on the grill (I multi-grill) with side of cole slaw and ‘tater salad.
The kids and grandkids are headed to Exploration Place this after, so grandpa will be forced (?) to man the grills all alone.
Let’s see……… flip the chicken – pop a beer – stoke the coals – crack a can open.
I think I have that down…….
Popular Science ranks the top ten worst jobs in science:
Number THREE?
Kansas biology teacher.
http://channels.isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/worstjobsinscience/worstjobsinscience&floc=NI-ntk1
Capn,
WTF???
“3. Kansas Biology Teacher: The evolution debate consumes everything. Instead of teaching biology and the scientific method, they must teach intelligent design theory.”
In what Kansas schools are they teaching ID??? This is news to me, and I’m going to suspect news to pretty much everyone in Kansas.
Gene, I think you missed the point!
Sure I know there is a lake north of me, and yes, there is a big river to the west and south. And I agree the Gulf has a lot of water in it. But why should I write to anyone in Government? There is a lawyer out there that will help me sue the Corp.
Remember, the first part in taking responsibility is to blame someone else first.
“Summit Church held its first service this morning at the Best Western Motel in Park City. The congregation split away from Immanuel Baptist Church in South Wichita and moved to the now-bankrupt Wild West World theme park earlier this year.
After owner Thomas Etheredge closed Wild West World in July, Pastor Terry Fox had to find somewhere else for his congregation to worship.
“We’re every excited about being here,” says Fox. “It is a great place to be on Sundays. We’re having church without being in church and its a great place for us.”
:::insane giggle:::
ARE YOU SERIOUS CAPPY???
Let the guvment do EVEN MORE regulating???
So the old adage about “If it sounds to good to be true, then it usually is” isn’t in affect anymore??Go out, lose your mind, make bad decisions, it the guvments fault.
The guvment over regulates driving the cost up and then is SHOCKED that so many people can’t afford it.
Out here in Oregon, the state has 33 mandates, on health insurance, 33. That means if you want to sell health insurance in this state, YOU MUST provide all 33 of these mandates. Then everyone is just SHOCKED about how expensive health insurance is.
Hey Cappy, remember when car owners manuals USE to be about 45 pages. Now they are over 250-300, MOST of that is taken up by guvment regulated warnings.
WARNING: DRIVING THIS VEHICLE WITH YOUR EYES CLOSED COULD RESULT IN DEATH OR SERIOUS INJURY.
You thought it was a funny line in a movie, but I don’t doubt that in this day and age someone will sue the auto companys saying that NO WHERE in the owners manual does it say ANYTHING about a “blind spot”, WHERES MY CHECK.This costs money to the auto companys, someone has to pay for it, GUESS WHO?
Again, no accountability, no responsibility. We continue to say, that its okay, it the guvments fault, not you and your own stupidity.
Here City of New Orleans, heres billions and billions of dollars to fix your levies and update them.
Well gee thanks Fed Guvment, but we’d much rather spend this money on a sports dome or pay to have someone go out to the houses of these 15 year old mothers so that the guvment can make sure that the 15 year old mother is AWARE of all the other guvment handouts that she is (get this) ENTITLED to.
Gene–
I hope you’re sitting down for this and you have the heart medicine handy: health insurance is expensive EVERYWHERE and it has nothing to do with gov’t regulations.
My daughter works in Kansas. She has a decent job, but no health benefits, so she has to get on the family plan her husband’s company offers–it costs them more than half of their MORTGAGE!
And that’s in Kansas, the land of zero government regulation.
It’s not gov’t regulation that makes health care cost so much, it’s CORPORATE GREED.
“Market discipline” doesn’t work very well when you’re talking about whether you live or die. Rather inelastic demand if I remember my macro-econ terms correctly.
Yes, Gene, take a deep breath and listen. Sometime MORE government regulation can actually be a good thing.
Oh, and btw, Gene.
While you spent 10 seconds typing on the OUTRAGE of 15 year old moms in New Orleans, the US taxpayer spent about 15 million dollars in Iraq . . .
Heres another example of guvment “working” Cappy.
I seem to recall that about 10 or so years ago, Wichita voted for about 200 millions in bonds to retrofit all the schools in town with air conditioning because the schools were to hot and the third graders couldn’t learn correctly about why Heather had two mommies and that Islam is a religion of peace and that Hugo Chavez is just a great guy and how to put a condom on a pickle. So this passed.
Now maybe I read this wrong the other day, but didn’t I see something about how the school year needs shortened because (get this) THE COST OF THE ELECTRICITY TO AIR CONDITION THE SCHOOLS WAS TO EXPENSIVE. LOL
You’re funny Cappy.
Corporate greed is the culprit.Bush is the culprit.
Do you just choose one each day. Is it an even, odd thing. Bush’s fault on even days, Corporations on odd.Lets try this one more time.
Dave goes to ER for headache. Doctor sees nothing and gives Dave a prescription for extra strength Tylenol. Total cost, 65.00 for ER visit and Tylenol.
Dave says “Thanks Doc, I’m sure it’s just a headache, but I sure hope you’re right, because I’m about to call my lawyer, John Edwards, to tell him about this visit.”
Doc: “On second thought Dave, why don’t we run a few more tests to rule out everything under the sun. In fact we’ll even run a pregnancy test on the off chance that that might be the reason for your headache.”Total bill now 5,200.00
But silly me, I’m sure this has NOTHING to do with the cost of insurance.
But, Gene, Edwards is just looking out for the little guy.
Probably finds a brain tumor for the 5200.
Gene you are entirely to logical for this board. We own a small business and do furnish health ins. for our employees. For 27 employees we pay over $8000 a month.
The fear of making a mistake forces docs to run expensive and unneccesary test to protect themselves. Each year we see rate increases. When you look at this cost for a small business you can imagine what it costs large industrial businesses.
Employees like Kev who pays no premiums, a low co-pay, and $7 a prescription just don’t get it.
Stack on those gov regs. Make Bush do a better job of policing the loan industry. I can see a plan developing here. Oh wait that is the same old plan that hasn’t been working.
Well of course Edwards is. He’s not in it for the money. I mean after all its the GREEDY, CORPORATE, INSURANCE COMPANIES MONEY, not anyone elses. His actions won’t affect the little guy at all. I mean I’m sure the insurance companies don’t pass along the loss to their consumers, oh no. They wouldn’t do that, because if the insurance company DIDN’T pass it along to their customers, hey they go bankrupt, big deal. So a few ten thousands of their customers no longer have ANY health insurance because they went bankrupt, what could be bad about that. I mean we have to STOP the evil, greedy corporation insurance companies.
“”"There use to be a stigma against unwed mothers because we knew it was always better to have the two parent household. Now adays if a girl gets pregnant we fall all over ourselves to give aid. The male who was so bold and daring that he was able to ejaculate, (wow, that was tough) made a kid but is somehow applauded for not being held responsible.”"”
Then the boy should be held reponsible. Haul his sorry ass to court and say “this is your kid and you are going to get a job at McDonald’s and you are going to work and pay 1/2 of your wages in child support”. You can work and go to school at the same time. Many of us did so. We need to make the teens pay just like the adults. When their buds see them busting their ass at an after school job and not being able to enjoy the fruits of the labour, they will think twice about having babies in the 10th grade. At the same time we need to make abortion and birth control- such as the morning after pill- more accessible to high school girls. I have a 16 year old and if she comes home pregnant, she WILL get an abortion and that has been made quite clear to her.
Kev what happened to her right to choose?
And by the way we can’t make grown men pay child support unless they want to, what makes you think you can make a high school kid pay?
“”"”Gene you are entirely to logical for this board. We own a small business and do furnish health ins. for our employees. For 27 employees we pay over $8000 a month.
The fear of making a mistake forces docs to run expensive and unneccesary test to protect themselves. Each year we see rate increases. When you look at this cost for a small business you can imagine what it costs large industrial businesses.
Employees like Kev who pays no premiums, a low co-pay, and $7 a prescription just don’t get it.”"”
I do get it and I have long said that we have to have some tort reform. I would support a “loser pays” system that would discourage stupid and assinine lawsuits. And when you sue a medical professional, I would support a “gross negligence” standard for collecting anymore than actual cost. If the doctor did not run an expensive test to cover his ass and it turned out that his failure to do that resulted in injury to you, you should be able to sue and recover ONLY what your actual cost are or a set amount if the loss of life is involved BUT if the doctor removed the wrong kidney because he has been working in the hospital for 48 hours without sleep, then you ought to be able to sue the crap out of him and the hospital because both were grossly negligent in providing you care.
Now there is one thing I will agree with you Cappy. I think that corporate pay has gotten way out of hand.
I think back in the 70’s the difference between the guy in the factory and the CEO was about a 25% difference in pay. For every dollar the guy in the factory got, the CEO got 25.00. Now adays I think it up to about 300%.
So yeah, I do agree there is a problem. I mean really does someone who makes 10 million a year not have enough to make his house payments, his car payments, pay for college for his kids, set aside for retirement. Does he really need 50 million a year to do all that.
“”"Kev what happened to her right to choose?
And by the way we can’t make grown men pay child support unless they want to, what makes you think you can make a high school kid pay?”"”
I don’t know about Kansas but down here I know many grown men that will tell you otherwise. They THOUGHT they didn’t have to pay until the state showed up at the door and took their tags and driver’s license. And in some cases took them to jail. Down here they don’t play. You don’t pay and they garnish your paycheck if you have a job. If you don’t have a job, you get hauled before a judge and told to find one within 30 days or go to jail. You’d be surprised at how many men are all the sudden able to pay when they are in cuffs on the way to a jail cell.
Happy Labor Day Kansas people!
Today is a great day to remember Kansas is a right to work state where employees can use their own minds and God given abilities to decide to join a labor union.
Today is a great day to remember the great gains organized labor historically have made for workers around the world, but in particularly the US. Gains in wages, health care, and worker safety to name but a few.
Today is a great day to remember the vast majority of Americans do not belong to organized labor. Only 12 percent nationwide, and if you take the federal workers out of the equation, it’s only 7 percent.
Today is a great day for the individual American worker, who have higher productivity today than all 27 nations in the EU and Japan. According the UN, only the Norway workers exceed American productivity (and probably only because it’s too darn cold to do anything else there). The average US worker produces $63,885 of wealth per year and $35.63 per work hour. We put in an average of 1,804 hours of work in 2006 alone.
So be proud Americans! Remember and be thankful for labor past as well as our labor of today. Our labor future looks bright because of the efforts of those who went before us, and the proud individual workers of today.
(All this from today’s KC Star and a fresh ground cup of coffee.)
Remember that, as you pop your tap, tab, or pour yourself a cold one.
My health insurance is $550/mo. My mortgage is $735/mo. it is a fixed 30 yr. no ARM… no balloon payment… I most likely wont live long enough to pay it off.. so i guess my kids will have to pick up the tab when i am gone…yep, gone, but not forgotten
Hey, everybody has a GREAT day… fire up the brats, and burgers, and corn on the cob, and get out the COLD beer!! Lets have a Party to celebrate our labors, and the end of Summer!
Gene Raston – Obviously you have not talked to any lawyers about filing medical malpractice lawsuits.
A person can only file a malpractice suit if actual harm has been done. As long as the doctor documents what he did for the patient and his reasoning for it, then that doctor would be okay.
Now if Dave came back later still complaining of the headache and the doctor did not do further testing – that is when the doctor might be liable for NOT pursuing more testing to see if there is an actual cause of the headache which is more severe than just a simple headache.
The reason doctors and hospitals get sued is for their knowingly doing something or not diagnosing the problem with the proper testing.
Lawyers will not take a medical malpractice case unless it can be proven by the records. To get a medical malpractice lawsuit filed and going takes a minimum of $100,000. And what laywer or person is going to spend $100,000 on a case if there was not actual harm done?
Republicans love to bash the lawyers like John Edwards for protecting the average American from medical malpratice but I notice when Republicans find themselves embroiled in a sex scandal, they sure get their lawyers involved in that case.
Is CYA in a sex scandal more important than protecting someone’s health?
so i guess my kids will have to pick up the tab when i am gone…Posted by: Chas.
Why on earth would anyone’s children be responsible for their parents debt?
Why on earth would anyone’s children be responsible for their parents debt?Posted by: Curious | September 03, 2007 at 12:37 PM
That’s EXACTLY the question I’d like to ask George W. Bush.
Why the hell should my daughter, and my eventual grandchildren, spend their lives paying for his Iraq fiasco?
Hmmm?
Why the hell should my daughter, and my eventual grandchildren, spend their lives paying for his Iraq fiasco? Posted by: Tom
And why are we paying for our parents social security and medicare? Why are we paying for interstate highways, OSHA, unemployment compensation, WIC, and someday soon Billary’s FREE healthcare?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
.. so i guess my kids will have to pick up the tab when i am gone…yep, gone, but not forgotten Posted by: Chas.
Actually Chas, you could pay for mortgage insurance which would pay off your home loan in the event of your death. This would only be wise if your children were planning on still living in your home after you die – and they have no source of income.
If your children are independent adults, and living their own lives – they are not responsible for your debts, and have no reason to assume them.
If there is any equity in the home after your debts are serviced, your children will share in those.
There is no reason children should ever be responsible for their parents personal debt.
And why are we paying for our parents social security and medicare?
*** I have my SSI and Medicare taken out of every paycheck. That the government has seen fit to spend it in Iraq, instead of putting it away for my retirement, is a crime.
Why are we paying for interstate highways
*** Easy answer: To provide a fabulously well-maintained system of roads to move the raw materials and finished products of the very companies taxed to build them. What a concept!!
OSHA
*** The job of government is to protect its citizens. Sometimes, the people we need protection from are those who employ us in ways that can kill us, through negligence or outright willfullness.
WIC
*** You’d rather let pregnant women, and their newborn babies, starve to death? Okay.
and someday soon Billary’s FREE healthcare
*** Hypothetical. The radicons keep saying she can’t get elected anyway, so you have NOTHING to worry about.
There is no reason children should ever be responsible for their parents personal debt.
Except for the Iraq fiasco pointed out by Tom, children are NOT liable for their parents’ debt.
(Of course the estate is liable but not the children directly.)
So Tom I see it is appropriate for government to spend your money for programs you deem important, or are important to you. But it is NOT o.k. to spend your money on programs you do not feel are important or that you disagree with?
You disagree with war, which is a constitutional duty of our executive branch. But you agree with social programs which are off spring of socialism and not a constitutional mandate?
As you say:
The job of government is to protect its citizens. Sometimes, the people we need protection from are those who terrorize us in ways that can kill us, through outright willfullness.
I myself think we need to stop the free cheese.
Both are equally simple.
Except for the Iraq fiasco pointed out by Tom, children are NOT liable for their parents’ debt. Posted by: ???
So we are not liable for any legitimate (in your opinion) functions of government? Just the war?
That’s EXACTLY the question I’d like to ask George W. Bush.
Why the hell should my daughter, and my eventual grandchildren, spend their lives paying for his Iraq fiasco?
Hmmm?
If you ask that of Bush, you have to ask it of all the Democratic presidents that have been doing the same thing since FDR.
No longer curious,
My SSI and Medicare deductions are not by my choice. And the fact that it’s being diverted to pay for Bush’s Iraq fiasco is ALSO not my choice.
The Constitutional duty of the Executive branch is best summed up by the Presidential oath:
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
Precipitating and getting quagmired in an Iraqi civil does nothing to protect or defend our beloved Constitution.
And as to the free cheese: Do you know where that comes from? I’ll tell you: It’s part of the USDA’s farm price-support program for the dairy industry. USDA buys billions of dollars in overproduced dairy products for one reason: to prop up the profits of the dairy conglomerates. For the benefit of the dairy industry, the USDA makes dairy products too expensive for poor people to afford.
Nice.
Democratic presidents who went to war? Exactly who would that be?
Eisenhower started the Vietnam war by poking his nose into their business, but Republicans all blame Kennedy for the war when it was really Eisenhower’s leftover mess.
And the Gulf War – let’s see – that was George Bush Sr. (a Republican).
But I think the current Iraq War is the finest tribute to the Republicans. This war is costing the US taxpayers 3 billion dollars a week. For that kind of money, our country could rebuild its infrastructure, get off the dependence of Middle East oil and finally tell the Arabs to shove their oil barrels up their asses.
But no, George W. Bush insists on going forward with his mishandled, bungled up job of invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.
I think the word fiasco sums the Iraq War up quite nicely. And why should our children and their children have to pay for such stupidity on the part of the man that invaded Iraq in the first place?
That’s EXACTLY the question I’d like to ask George W. Bush.Why the hell should my daughter, and my eventual grandchildren, spend their lives paying for his Iraq fiasco? Hmmm? Tom
You really need to refocus your question to those who approved of the war:
We are still in Iraq BECAUSE:
On the Joint Resolution (H.J.Res. 114 )October 11, 2002, 12:50 AMA joint resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
Alphabetical by Senator Name
Akaka (D-HI), Nay
Allard (R-CO), Yea
Allen (R-VA), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Nay
Breaux (D-LA), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Bunning (R-KY), Yea
Burns (R-MT), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Nay
Campbell (R-CO), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Carnahan (D-MO), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Chafee (R-RI), Nay
Cleland (D-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Nay
Corzine (D-NJ), Nay
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
Daschle (D-SD), Yea
Dayton (D-MN), Nay
DeWine (R-OH), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Nay
Edwards (D-NC), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Fitzgerald (R-IL), Yea
Frist (R-TN), Yea
Graham (D-FL), Nay
Gramm (R-TX), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Helms (R-NC), Yea
Hollings (D-SC), Yea
Hutchinson (R-AR), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Nay
Jeffords (I-VT), Nay
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kennedy (D-MA), Nay
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Nay
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lott (R-MS), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Nay
Miller (D-GA), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Nay
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Nickles (R-OK), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Nay
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Santorum (R-PA), Yea
Sarbanes (D-MD), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Smith (R-NH), Yea
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Thomas (R-WY), Yea
Thompson (R-TN), Yea
Thurmond (R-SC), Yea
Torricelli (D-NJ), Yea
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Wellstone (D-MN), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Nay
Well, gee, I figured anybody would understand I meant the damned estate… I dont have anything else for the kids, so, if they want the house, they will have to pay for it… I am not sure what happens, if the Estate cant pay for it… since I dont have much for an Estate…
And as to the free cheese: Do you know where that comes from? I’ll tell you: It’s part of the USDA’s farm price-support program for the dairy industry. USDA buys billions of dollars in overproduced dairy products for one reason: to prop up the profits of the dairy conglomerates. For the benefit of the dairy industry, the USDA makes dairy products too expensive for poor people to afford. Nice. Posted by: Tom
I know very well about that free cheese. I can post you the story about how much it costs to produce.
But why not just cut it off? It’s all another social program by the government, which also supports big business.
Imagine how our government will administer the FREE HEALTHCARE program.
God help us all.
TREE HUGGERS IN CALIFORNIA RUNNING OUT OF POWER
California Heat Wave Causes Power Shortages, Extreme Weather Grips State
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295540,00.html
California Liberals want their clean air and their power too!
Hypocrites can’t turn their AC up or off to save the environment.
Then THEY complain about Global Warming.
How many of you Global Warming fans have your AC Off today?
Too many effing sock puppets today. See you all next time I have a free day.
Happy Labor Day to all who value work!
Why does somebody always have to put up that stupid list of everybody who voted for the war?? We all know now that they were voting for Bush to use military force… And they were voting with faulty information… So, when they found out about the BAD information, many of them changed their minds on Bush’s Fiasco…
And yet, all we hear is that “They voted for the war before they voted against the war!”
It seems to me that is what we ELECT them to do… vote in our best interests!!
I heard that lame dog line about Kerry voting for the war before he voted against the war the entire Campaign of 2004!!! What a lousy anti-Kerry line to use… I would vote ANY DAY for a Senator who had the balls to stand up to the President, and tell him he is WRONG, when he found out Bush GOOFED!!!
Bye Tom!!! Talk soon!!!
Bush is to blame… He and his cronies put up the phony intelligence to begin with… Actually, I have had the strangest feeling that BUSH actually believed Saddam’s propaganda!! Still, it was phony intelligence… And it was BUSHCo that fed it to Congress!!
I am pleased that many chose to change their mind on the war, once the REAL intelligence came to light…
Yeah Chas, we can’t be saving those brown skin Arabs from tyranny.
Let’s just be safe in the U.S., sing kumbaya and play rummy.
The Hildabeast, her Royal Thighness was also a side changer, depending on her mood and what crowd she was speaking in front of.
I didn’t realize Kerry was your Senator Chas? Are you residing in Massachusetts now?
Oh wait, the party thing, I forgot.
You know, we could make a HUGE dent in terrorist funding, if we would just go into Afghanistan and fire-bomb, or napalm the huge poppy fields, that is the source of their VAST income world wide… But NOOO we let them harvest it, process it, and sell it to people on OUR STREETS!!! To feed the Terrorist activities!!
Hey, can we charge dope addicts with aiding and abetting the enemy?? Enemy combatants?? Hmmmm… That would be interesting!!
Remember when Kansas was going to be a “good civil guy”?
Lying hypocrite!
Why does somebody always have to put up that stupid “Bush’s war” ? We all know now that they supported Bush to use military force… And Bush had faulty information… So, when Congress saw the going was getting rough, many of them changed their minds and called it Bush’s Fiasco…
(this redirects blame and all fault and sin on Bush and away from the Congress)
And yet, all we hear is that “Bushy took us to war!”
It seems to me that is what we ELECT PResidents to do… vote in our best interests!!
Congress GOOFED!!
CLINTON CHAMELEON CHANGES COLORS CONSTANTLY!
Clinton September 3, 2007 Clinton’s Altered Iowa SpeechBy Patrick Healy
SIOUX CITY, Iowa – Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton left a couple of things behind in New Hampshire this morning when she left for Iowa: Her vocal support for abortion rights and gay civil unions, both of which she touted in the Granite State but left out of her stump speech here today.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/03/clintons-altered-iowa-speech/
WHAT does she really believe? Where does she stand?
She has NO CORE BELEIFS.She changes her mind everyday, depending on where she is and what direction the political wind is blowing!
Yes ???, it’s a blog, discussion, let’s see as advertised on the front page of the Eagle…
“Political gossip, zingers and more.”
Are you easily offended ???.
Or is your underwear too tight today?
Do you want me to make some really boring scrolling commentary like Capn, LTP, CF2K and Steven Davis?
I can do that if you don’t mind snoozing your way through the blog.
Sock puppets indeed!
Hope you guys continue to masturbate each other.
Have fun!
Cosmos, is your Air Conditioning OFF today?
You need to help save the planet too, you know.
Or do you think someone ELSE should solve Global Warming?
Max I can’t help laughing at Tom, ???, and Chas. They can’t win a discussion, or there are logical posts contrary to their own beliefs – and suddenly everyone is a sock puppet.
Why not just leave without whining and crying as you shut the door? I’d have more respect for them.
????? I’m sure Cosmos and Chas are outside sitting in the breeze under a shade tree today.
They have turned off their air conditioning to conserve energy and save the planet from global warming.
And if they don’t have a wireless connection, they can’t be outside and blog at the same time.
“California Liberals want their clean air and their power too!
Hypocrites can’t turn their AC up or off to save the environment.”
Posted by: Max | September 03, 2007 at 01:40 PM
California has the LOWEST per capita electricity use of all the U.S. states.
Kansas rate is about TWICE that of California.
http://www.energy.ca.gov/electricity/us_per_capita_electricity_2005.html
Yep Max, you and Kansas are stroking it pretty good.
You just need Nathan to complete the sock puppet circle.
The Hildabeast, her Royal Thighness was also a side changer, depending on her mood and what crowd she was speaking in front of.
I didn’t realize Kerry was your Senator Chas? Are you residing in Massachusetts now?
Oh wait, the party thing, I forgot.
Posted by: Kansas
I thought you said you were not mean spirited? Am I to assume that being called The Hildabeast, Her Royal Thighness is a good thing?
So is your AC off Cosmos?
Kansas has once again earned his title…
Lying Hypocrite!
Keep stroking Max…it won’t be long now.
Is Nathan with you?
I see Kansas is there.
??? appears to be sexually deprived, he keeps talking about masturbation.
MM this statement by you earlier:
“Republicans love to bash the lawyers like John Edwards for protecting the average American from medical malpratice but I notice when Republicans find themselves embroiled in a sex scandal, they sure get their lawyers involved in that case.”
I have some reading material for you. Have you ever read John Grisham? He writes mostly fiction but very well researched ficton. As a lawyer he has great insight into the legal system. Pick up “The King of Torts” if you haven’t read it. Insert the face of Edwards in the role of the shyster lawyer who searches high and low for victims, I mean clients so he can take 85% of everything he gets for them. This is dishonesty at its highest. That is how he became rich. Not going after the ‘big tycoons’ but by stealing from the little guy.
After you read it do some research and see how realistic it is. It will be an eyeopener.
Max,
Yes. Have you added insulation, installed ridge vents, and radiant barrier, sealed ducts, added solar screens and/or awnings, etc.???
In the class action suits, the lawyers get most of the money and their clients get a few thousand or less each. Sometimes, they only get a certificate that is not worth the paper it is printed on.
I do have my moments maidmarion. When it comes to her Royal Thighness, she makes her own path.
Perhaps she’ll entertain us with her singing voice with a southern accent?
Yeah, CA is so damn efficient with electricity, they use blackouts to cut down on consumption.
That and their population density is much more then the rest of the country, so with 50% more people per household, they should use less electricity per household.
But, they definitely use less electricity per household during the blackouts.
Good one Cosmos.
Is your AC off?
Max,
Yes. Have you added insulation, installed ridge vents, and radiant barrier, sealed ducts, added solar screens and/or awnings, etc.???
Posted by: cosmos | September 03, 2007 at 02:37 PM
Answer my question Cosmos, then I’ll answer yours.
“After you read it do some research and see how realistic it is.”
Grm??? Please explain how researching works of fiction are going to help anyone form an opinion on Edwards.
Would you recommend that we watch old episodes of the Beverly Hillbillies and take note of what granny does, so we could then understand grandmothers better???
Max,
Do you have a reading problem?
“Yes. Have you added insulation…”
Max: “…so with 50% more people per household, they should use less electricity per household.”
50% more people per household??? Proof please.
And it looks like the blackouts in California are mostly caused by overloaded equipment failing, and thunderstorms (lightning).
“”"California has the LOWEST per capita electricity use of all the U.S. states.
Kansas rate is about TWICE that of California.”"”
That is because California has a nice sunny 70 degree climate almost year around. That is like saying “people in Kansas use 5 times as much natural gas as people in Miami”. The answer to ALL of our electrical needs is 2 fold- one is MANDATORY conservation including consumption based billing where you would get a LOW rate for using under a set amount of KW hours a month but you would get a HIGH rate for going over that amount. It would also mean banning of any energy infficient items beginning with the incandesant light buld which has already been banned in Austrailia. And also it would mean mandatory RF switching modules in all new air conditoners that would allow the power grid management to shut off air conditioners for short periods of time to balance the load out. The next thing we must do- and I know this will get me kicked out of the liberal club- is to start a program to build at least 200 new nuclear power plants in the USA and Canada to power the grid and to allow us to retire the old dirty coal plants that put so much crap in the air. And just for the record we are NOT using the AC today- but it is only 85 or so and we are outside!
Cosmos, that’s a YES that your A/C is off today? Good boy!
My house:
Extra insulation in walls and roof. (Can’t recall the R ratings)
Double paned windows.
Nice large windows on South and West side for passive solar heat.
Insulated curtains.
Vented attic.
Automatic thermostat.
Summer 80 day/75 nightWinter 70 day/60 night
High Efficiency Gas Furnace (90%)
Decidious shade trees in south and west (nice shade over house most of the day in summer)
Some evergreen trees and shrubs on the north side.
I don’t do this Cosmos because of global warming. I do this because it makes sense from a budget standpoint and to minimize pollution into the air that I breathe.
It is easy to bash lawyers until you need one. If you get injured and are unable to work and you think you alone can battle the big insurance company, I got bad news for you- your pain is going to be more than physical. And this goes double if you are injured AT work because then you have to battle the employer, the employers worker comp carrier and, if you are injured by a third party tort (such as having a drunk run into your van while you are on the clock), you will also have to battle with them and their insurance carrier. And finally, if your injury is long term or permanent, you will have to battle with SS for disability so you don’t starve to death. YOU don’t stand a chance! Only a good injury lawyer will be able to win all these battles and get you what you are rightfully entitled to.
Insurance companies LOVE people who represent themselves because they have FOOLS for lawyers! Just sign right here please….
You all might want to check with the lawyers on the Blog, because in many states, lawyers are only allowed a certain fixed percentage of their winnings IF they win…. In many states, that percentage is fixed at 25%… I dont know where somebody got that 85% figure… But checkit with Vaughn and GMC…. I am sure they know the limits…
And you’re right Kev… they love customers who act on their own behalf… NONE of us is qualified to go up against an insurance company in Court…
ksgrm is a grandma? I thought it refered to a measure of cocaine!
“That is because California has a nice sunny 70 degree climate almost year around.”
Posted by Kev.
It’s not just their “climate”.
California has wisely focused on efficiency and other solutions. Their per capita electricity use has remained flat since the mid 1970’s, while the U.S. usage has increased.
You want 200+ new nuclear plants? Why do you want the slowest, least cost-competitive solution? Why do you want higher utility bills?
‘Nuclear Energy’http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid257.php
There is a huge difference between a class action suit and a regular suit. Check out how much the silicon implant victims received vs. how much their lawyers received. Same thing with the tobacco suits.
We have too many lawyers, 99% of the lawyers in the world are in the US, but we only account for 5% of the world’s population?
Lawyers have either forgotten why they are supposed to do or have not been taught in law school.
cosmos, I agree that nuclear power only increases rates. For those unbelievers, we got stuck with Wolf Creek, and our rates went up to pay for it. That has happened around the country. The problem of terrorists targeting a plant not included, or an earthquake or manmade stupidity.
Abortion is never a choice decided just between a mother, her abortionist quack, and God. In fact, abortion is usually not a choice at all. A man, usually the father of the victim, is involved in 95% of abortion decisions. Furthermore, other influences amount to coercion:- 64% of mothers are pressured into abortion by others- 54% described themselves as uncertain about having the abortion- 52% said they needed more time to make a decision. Yet,
- 79% said they were not counseled on alternatives to abortion,
- 84% said they did not receive adequate counseling before abortion, and
- 67% said they received no counselingCoercion can take many forms, including simultaneous personal and professional pressure; withdrawal of essential support, such as housing, income, family and friends; or deceptive information from credentialed professionals. For example, Kansas abortion mills are required to provide adoption and alternatives counseling to minors, but Planned Parenthood reported ZERO referrals for adoption last year. Coercion can escalate to violence. Homicide is the leading killer of pregnant women.Public awareness and outrage are rising in regard to coerced abortions, and state legislatures are beginning to act – weakly, usually without enforcement. We presently rely on pro-life crisis pregnancy centers to provide some type of protection and assistance for coerced mothers.- – -
Planned Parenthood abortionist quack Meryl Severson, of Omaha, NE is being sued by a 40-year old woman whose abortion at 8 weeks he botched, nearly killing her. “Jane Roe” nearly bled to death, and required an emergency hysterectomy to save her life on August 17, 2007. Three of the abortion mill killing staff held her down after she asked for the botched abortion to stop, while Severson continued his quackery, which he has also committed in Lincoln, NE, and Council Bluffs and Sioux City, IA.Abortionist quack Meryl Severson was forced to resign from the University of Nebraska Medical Center in March 2001 after committing an elective abortion in 2000 in violation of university policy. He joined Planned Parenthood as a contract killer in May 2001.
And I suppose you have some kind of documentation regarding coerced abortions??? I sure hope you would, if you insist on posting that garbage…
I don’t have any problem with a ‘coerced” abortion when it come to teenage girls. Like I said I have already told mine that if she ever comes home pregnant she WILL get an abortion. No choice about it.
Kev, she has to agree to it, you have no legal right to force her to have one.
That isnt what fake butter is claiming up thread LOL
Chas anyone who has used a lawyer will tell you that the fee they are allowed to take and what they actually take are two different numbers. Not sure where you got your figure but the numbers shown below add up to 54% when you take the lawyers expenses, fees and administrative costs. The victims then split up the rest. When it is a class action suit the number of victims is usually up in the thousands. They defend one case and take home 54% of the take.
We have all seen those commericials telling us to call Lawyer SO%SO if they have a certain condition. They aren’t interested in your well being they are building a client base for a class action suit.
“Tillinghast estimates that 54% of total tort costs are expenses rather thantransfers: 16% to claimants’ attorneys’ fees, 14% to defense costs, and 24% to defense administrativecosts. Of the 46% of the funds that are actually compensation for injured parties, 24% is for awards for economic loss and 22% are for awards for pain and suffering.
http://law.gmu.edu/faculty/papers/docs/00-36.pdf
I don’t dislike lawyers as a group but I do dislike attorneys like Edwards who got rich on the backs of others suffering.
Kev, What if I don’t want my daughter to have one but she wants it? Should she have a choice?
You daughter is the ONLY one who should have a choice in the matter, Ksgrm….
As for the lawyers, Yes, I know that there is a difference between an individual law suit, and a class action suit… So, it would only stand to reason, that the lawyers would make much more off of a class action than an individual case…
My reference to 25% is to individual cases only… That is what almost all attorneys receive on a contingency basis… with the addition of some administrative fees… I KNOW thats true of worker’s comp. and Social Security cases… I know that because I have been through those two types of cases in the past 5 years…
There is no doctor who is going to force an abortion on a young girl who doesn’t want one. Kev would be essentially out of luck.
I don’t agree with forced abortions for anyone- just as I don’t agree with forced births either.
I talked my daughter out of having an abortion…she was scared and thought it was the end of the world. Now she can’t believe she ever considered it. Her daughter is the light of our lives, the best thing that ever happened.So many women throw away that opportunity because they’re scared and don’t feel like they have a choice. That’s why it’s important for women to know there are alternatives and help out there. The pro abortionists always resent it when anyone trys to present abortion alternatives to women in that situation. It’s as though they take it personal when an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy isn’t “terminated”, like somehow it’s an insult to the way they believe.
I would hope that every woman who has an abortion would do a serious inventory of the situation, before making a decision…
See, that’s why we are called PRO CHOICE, and not PRO ABORTION…. I wish people would at least get it right….
Sorry Chas…but many in your camp are just pro abortion, I’ve seen it too much. They feel like it’s an accomplishment when a woman decides to abort.
Well, there are no doubt nut cases on both sides of the issue. I dont see it as any accomplishment… just as a woman’s choice… Like I always say, If you dont believe in Abortion, then dont have one… But it’s not illegal… and as such, it remains a CHOICE…
Mary thank you for speaking out for the life of defenseless babies. I am always accused of having a religious bias. In the 70’s when abortion became available I was open to either choice. But after moving to Wichita I changed my mind. I actually saw the results of an abortion. I could never look at it the same way again. Thanks for speaking out.
Kansas??? That guy is pus pocket nasty. Show me a public restroom where I can meet that dear manOoppps, wrong sock puppet.
Posted by: Republikahn | September 03, 2007 at 03:32 AM
==========================
Oh looky what I found… Kansas/ Republikahn/etc., etc., must have stayed up too late… Got him- self caught talking to himself.. even admitted to the sock puppet thing… SOOOO FUNNNNYYYY!!!! Just had to post it… Sorry!!
Chas slavery was once legal but it wasn’t right. I think history will prove that to be the case here.
How many times do we have to tell you, you cant go mixing apples and oranges, Ksgrm???
See, it’s the Civil Rights folks who want to keep Abortion LEGAL!!! Not the other way around!!! This time, the abolitionists are on the side of the Woman’s Right to Choose!!
Careful Chas, Kansas will claim that you are me or that I am you.
He also gets all offended when you repost his posts.
He somehow believes that his posts are PRIVATE.
He even threatened me the last time I reposted a post of his.
The guy is looney.
I guess you dont get it… Keeping Abortion legal, keeps Women FREE!!
Yea, he does that… but this time he is caught red-handed…
His posts are no more private on the Blog than anybody else’s!! LOL
About time we had a post that proves he talks to himself!!
In your opinion Chas.
The same with the Jews and World wwar II. The Germans convinced themselves that Jews weren’t human and it was OK to gas them, an easy solution to the “problem”.An abortion is the denial of someone else’s life, no matter how you justify it. It’s more than a “choice”, because it involves someone else’s life, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself it doesn’t.
So Mary, are you also against war in any form?
Mary, you must also be against birth control correct?
ksgrm,
For the record, this was NOT my post. Some ‘bright’ Socialist Troll thought that one up.
“ksgrm is a grandma? I thought it refered to a measure of cocaine!
Posted by: Max | September 03, 2007 at 03:32 PM”
Why do people make the assumption that if you are against abortion, you must be against birth control?
Thanks Max I didn’t think it sounded like you. Thought you might have been out in the sun to long.
I don’t believe abortion should be outlawed, I just believe we need to acknowledge what it is…the taking of an innocent human life. I have no desire for people to become parents against their will, or see women risking their lives to obtain one. But it is what it is…and it’s always a tragedy. I wish we would focus more on preventing unwanted pregnancies and getting help and support to women faced with an unplanned pregnancy so they would realize there is another option other than kill the baby they’re carrying.
Like I’ve said before, I know plenty of women who regret making an impulsive decision to abort because they were scared, but I’ve never met any woman who regretted choosing to give birth to her child. I’d like to see fewer women who regret their choice.
First slavery, now the Holocaust… Is there no end to the slip/shod analogies?? All that does is push some folks’ buttons… To compare abortion to the Holocaust is totally sickening… TWO different matters entirely!!
It amazes me how any Christian preacher could be so passionately FOR abortion.
Thou Shalt Not Kill
There must be a new ‘interpretation’ of scripture out there.
Oh, that wiggly thing isn’t a human. It’s just cell matter or tissue.
Right.
Actually KSgrm, I was out in the sun having fun when that imposter posted that.
Gotta Love Labor Day!
I wonder if non-working people celebrate Labor Day.
Actually Chas, abortions have killed many more people then the Holocost.
So you are right. No comparison.
ksgrm
How does the pill work?
The birth control pill can work in one of three ways:
It can prevent ovulation (releasing an egg from the ovary)
It can cause the mucus in the cervix to change so that if sperm reach the cervix, they are not allowed to enter, and
It can irritate the lining of the uterus so that if the first two actions fail, and the woman does become pregnant, the tiny baby boy or girl will die before he or she can actually attach to the lining of the uterus.
In other words, if the third action occurs, the woman’s body rejects the tiny baby and he or she will die. This is called a chemical abortion.
http://www.all.org/article.php?id=10126
“I wish we would focus more on preventing unwanted pregnancies and getting help and support to women faced with an unplanned pregnancy so they would realize there is another option other than kill the baby they’re carrying.”=====================
Tell that one to the hard liner Pro Lifers… See, they dont even want Birth Control… They dont WANT people to stop unwanted, and unplanned pregnancies. They want total “body control” not just of women, but of families!!
In case you are not aware of it, the Pro Choice movement WANTS to educate people in family planning… They WANT to teach young people to protected themselves from unprotected sexual encounters… If you are really NOT opposed to Abortion, Mary, get on the Pro Choice team, and work to help put a sock in the insensitivity you see in some folks… That would be most helpful, too…
So if a person is against abortion, they should logically be against oral contraceptives.
I believe there is a time to take life, depending on the circumstances. I do believe in the death penalty and I do think sometimes war is unavoidable.I believe in birth control and if it was up to me it would be in the water and people would have to take four years of parenting and relationship classes and pass a test before they could get the antidote and get pregnant.I love the line in the movie “Parenthood”…”You need a license to drive a car, hell you even need a license to catch a fish, but any dumbass can be a parent.”Abortion is the taking of an innocent human life, let’s just PLEASE be honest about it.
Yes, we need more sensitive pro-abortion people.
Kill with kindness.
Chas you might have rev after your name. I somehow doubt that. You show me none of the compassion of any minister I have ever known. I am not going to set in judgement of you though. Sometimes your opinions scare me to death because you said you give other people advise.
I think Mary’s analogy was right on. Unborn children are the most helpless of all. When adults have the right to kill them in the womb it just isn’t right. When I thought it was ok I had never seen the results of a third trimester abortion.
I don’t torture puppies and I can’t condone killing a viable child because of a problem a mother is having.
This is JMOHO.
Max, why is it when you have nothing to argue with, you resort to personal attacks??? Typical Reich Winger??? Typical “parkay style”??? Can you not read either??? I said I AM PRO CHOICE…. NOT PRO ABORTION….I DONT WANT WOMEN TO BE SLAVES TO ANYBODY’S RELIGIOUS CONVICTIONS…
PRO CHOICE MAX… GET IT RIGHT!!
Kansas??? That guy is pus pocket nasty. Show me a public restroom where I can meet that dear manOoppps, wrong sock puppet.
Posted by: Republikahn | September 03, 2007 at 03:32 AM==========================
Oh looky what I found… Kansas/ Republikahn/etc., etc., must have stayed up too late… Got him- self caught talking to himself.. even admitted to the sock puppet thing… SOOOO FUNNNNYYYY!!!! Just had to post it… Sorry!!
Posted by: Chas. | September 03, 2007 at 06:52 PM
Well Chas, for one the spelling is incorrect and I haven’t used Republikhan (the correct spelling) here in a long while.
So it appears that you hypocritical Liberals who hate nic stealing and trolls so much are into it big time now.
Not that they were never into nic stealing and trolling before, it has increased the passed few months.
If you don’t see my typekey address on there, it ain’t me.
I have always been honest about abortion. A human life is taken in the act of abortion.
Will you be honest Mary and admit that you want to control other peoples lives and force feed your Catholic religious beliefs on them?
Chas..I would NEVER put myself in a situation where I would condone the taking of innocent human life..never. The pro-choice fanatics make me sick.
MUST BE BECAUSE ALL YOU KNOW ARE HARD LINE, FUNDAMENTALIST, UNCARING, UNFEELING CLERGY, KSGRM…
I THINK ITS TIME YOU STOPPED QUESTIONING MY CREDENTIALS, AND PULLED YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR RELIGIOUS ZEALOTISM… AT LEAST LONG ENOUGH TO REALIZE THAT THERE ARE MILLIONS WHO DONT AGREE WITH YOU….
GEE, I THINK I WILL START SAYING I DONT BELIEVE YOU REALLY RUN YOUR OWN BUSINESS, AND THAT YOU DONT REALLY HAVE ANY CHILDREN, OR GRANDCHILDREN…. I GUESS THAT MIGHT BE FAIR TURN-ABOUT, ANY TIME YOU QUESTION MY VOCATION….
YOU SUPPOSE THAT MIGHT BE FAIR??
Mary — Fanatics of ANY kind make me sick… You just said you dont want Abortion made illegal… You WANT the freedom of Choice… That’s ALL I have said… Why is it OK for you to say it, but not for ME???
??? and Chas thanks for telling me I am not a hard line pro-lifer. I firmly believe in birth control. I think Mary has a grand idea but if we can’t get flouride in Wichita water they would probably say no to the birth control too.
Pro Choice is not Pro Abortion?
Yes, it sounds much better without the “A” word.
Personal attack? Chas, you have told the world you are a preacher. You take a pro-abortion position. I make an observation about preachers who are pro-abortion and you can’t rationally defend your position.
ALL CAPS CHAS! CALM DOWN BOY!
Now, what is unclear about:
Thou Shalt Not Kill
Not really Chas, none of the ministers that I know of swear, scream, yell, throw tantrums like you do – at least never in public or to the extent that you do.
MAX, I DO NOT TAKE A PRO ABORTION POSITION…. AGAIN, YOU CANNOT READ…. I WILL USE CAPS, UNTIL YOU READ IT CORRECTLY…. NOW, TRY IT AGAIN… I AM PRO CHOICE!!!
PRO CHOICE IS NOT PRO ABORTION!!!
WHY CANT YOU GET THAT THROUGH YOUR NARROW MIND???
OH, SHUT UP KANSAS…. NOBODY ASKED YOU!!!
Say Kansas, only the HARD LINE, FUNDAMENTALIST, UNCARING, UNFEELING CLERGY keep their professional demeanor.
Chas isn’t of that variety.
Chas must be the FUZZY LINE, UNORTHADOX, CARING, FEELY CLERGY.
Now, what is unclear about:
Thou Shalt Not Kill
Posted by: Max | September 03, 2007 at 07:22 PM
Gee, go ask George Bush. That Commandment isn’t in his religious belief system is it?
Go do a blood pressure check Chas, you’re gonna pop an artery or a vein.
Lying hypocrite Kansas strikes again.
I am not going to sit around here, and have my profession drug through the Reich Wing BIGOT Factory…. Since none of you KNOW me, it really doesnt matter…. But, yet it does matter…. Just because you disagree with my position of Pro Choice, and that doesnt fit into your teeny tiny mold of what you BELIEVE Clergy are, or ought to be, you ATTACK me… without cause, and without REason….
I can safely say that there are Thousands of Clergy who believe the same way I do…
And they are all around you!!
And If I Swear at stupidity now and then, Then I guess I am in good company…. Jesus once called the Pharisees Sons of Snakes… We have a slightly different phrase now days (involving offspring of female dogs)….
Ignorance is one thing… But stupidity is quite different…
Abortion is LEGAL…. It IS a Choice for women, thank God!!
Get over it!!
Chas is a minister of the First Church of “Thou Shall Sin iffin ya feel like it, we can talk about it in Church over a beer and joint.
Chas I know many compassionate ministers that would lay down their life for someone who needed it. I don’t count you in that category. You use language no minister I have ever heard uses, you belittle people constantly, you judge others because they might have an opinion that doesn’t agree with yours, and YOU YELL AT PEOPLE WHEN YOU WANT TO WIN AN DISPUTE AND KNOW YOU HAVE A WEAK ARGUMENT.
pro choice is not pro abortion
pro choice is not pro abortion
pro choice is not pro abortion
I guess if you say it enough, it supposed to make sense.
How about Pro Let’s Let The Mother Cut Her Little Baby’s Head Off for a more accurate name.
The troll “???” appears again.
Spineless and hiding behind a nic because he’s too cowardly to post under his usual nic.
We know who you are and why you are.
You have to live with it.
So Max, you must be against the birth control pill as well?
My don’t we assume a lot, Chas? Not only am I NOT Catholic, I’m not even a Christian. How do you justify your pro choice position being a Christian? Afterall, that means you believe abortion is OK. How can you approve of killing of an innocent life and be a peace with your God? Don’t your commandments mean anything to you? Or are you one of those “ala cart Christians” who believe in following your God’s rules as long as there is no hardship or self sacrifice involved?
You are a looney tune Kansas.
By the way, how’s your wife?
Must be ala cart.
Believe whatever you want to beleive and still be saved.
I was curious about how a Christian could justify abortion.
I thought maybe Chas would have a rational explanation.
Just confirms what I thought originally – there is no rational explanation.
Chas I am reading a commentary by Charles Stanley. If you have never read him you should try it sometime. This week he said that we can’t force others to want our belief in Jesus Christ but by our actions we have to make it look so good that others will want what we have.
You haven’t shown me anything that you have that I would want. That is my confusion with your belief system.
Mary, I didnt say you ARE a Catholic… I havent typed that word on here until this very post… Why would I say you are a Catholic??? That would make me as bad as Kansas, and Max, and Ksgrm…
Same argument was used by Chas against Concealed Carry.
Why be against it?
BECAUSE.
I can see the congregation at the edge of their seat during the sermon, waiting for the punch line to explain why pro-abortion is ok and consistent with Christianity.
Then they hear: “Because I said so!”
Ksgrm… You would be the first to know if somebody is belittling somebody else… you seem to be a master of it, as you have just proven again here tonite… She who live in glass house, should not throw stones!!
You are a looney tune Kansas.
By the way, how’s your wife?
Posted by: ??? | September 03, 2007 at 07:33 PM
Troll ???, I’m not married and don’t have a wife.
And for the record, I’m not pro choice. I just accept the reality of it and I know it isn’t going to go away. It’s wrong, no matter how much some justify it.
Max, what kool aid are you on??? What does abortion have to do with Concealed/Carry??? Nothing… absolutely nothing!!
You cant even stay on the same page!! Geeez, you better change that kool aid, before it hurts your brain!!
Sorry Chas, That was meant for ???. My bad!
Well, thats a good clarification… since earlier you said you are not in favor of abortion being illegal… I can understand your position better now… Thank you!!
Chas, you used the same argument against concealed carry, that you used for abortion.
BECAUSE.
Kansas, I tell ya what… Why dont you gather up your sock puppets, and go hide in the place of undisclosed location with Dick Cheney… Maybe the two of you can get it figured out, where nobody else has to watch… That would be a great idea!!
Chas, I still want to know how you justify your stand on abortion considering the 5th commandment.
MAX, THAT IS YOUR STUPID IDIOTIC IMAGINATION AT WORK AGAIN… I AM NOT ARGUING FOR ABORTION…. I AM ARGUING FOR CHOICE!!!
ARE YOU THAT DENSE THAT YOU CANNOT READ THAT??? THAT HAS TO BE AT LEAST FIVE TIMES I HAVE TYPED THAT HERE… AND MY ARGUMENT FOR CHOICE IS NOT “BECAUSE”!
I’ll make the same bet with you Chas.
I’ll contact Phillip Brownlee and tell him we have a bet for $5000.00 to show that I am none of the posters who you claim I am. I’ll pay Phillip Brownlee $2500.00 (half of your money) after I win the bet.
Mary, once again, my argument is FOR CHOICE… What is so damned difficult for people to READ here??
Kansas… your own post early this morning would lose you that bet…. You better not bet anything like that!!!
Ksgrm… You would be the first to know if somebody is belittling somebody else… you seem to be a master of it, as you have just proven again here tonite… She who live in glass house, should not throw stones!!
Posted by: Chas. | September 03, 2007 at 07:37 PM
Charles I have questioned your set of beliefs because I am truly curious what they are. Are they based on the bible? What are they based on if not this? I didn’t belittle you but was just showing my astonishment about your lack of principles that are normally held by a person of the cloth.
Choice of what Chas?
What does choice mean?
It means you can kill or not kill right?
Which one do you choose Chas?
Chas man, you gotta be a glutton for punishment.
Pro-Masochist too?
I can’t watch the self-destruction any longer….
Pro Abortion = Pro Choice
Chas, I was asleep at that time of morning and as I explain,it wasn’t a typekey entry plus the spelling was wrong.
Too chicken to make the bet Chas?
Chas – Do you want fries with that or not? That is a choice. Will that baby live or die – the baby has no choice.
Ksgrm… I will only say this once… because I truly believe that you are not terribly well versed in various theologies of our times… I am a part of a very long, established main line denomination…. There are MANY such clergy as myself who share the same beliefs as I do…. It is NOT my job to explain those beliefs to you… You obviously have your own set of beliefs….
It is also not hyour job to tell me my beliefs are out of line, just because you (a) dont understand them, and (b) you dont have a part in them….
So, why not just come to the really hard realization that there are a WHOLE LOT of people in this world who dont have the same beliefs that YOU have…. And I AM ONE of them…
Get it???
I tell a man with a gun that he has a choice. He can shoot and kill anyone he wants.
Am I pro-choice or pro-murder?
Which explains why he might be on Sabbatical. Poor performance and non adherence to the Gospel.
Kansas, I do NOT have a choice to make in terms of abortion… You see, like you, I am not a female… I want for women to have the LEGAL RIGHT to make their OWN choice for their own lives, and their own bodies…
THAT Sir, is CHOICE… you know, like do you choose to eat meat, or are you a vegan??? Do you choose to drink beer, or do you not??? CHOICE…
If you dont know what CHJOICE is, I pity you greatly!!
Sort of a Davidian belief system Chas has there, instead of guns, beer and joints.
“theologies of our times”
Modern Theologies? Is that more recent then Brigham Young’s revelations? Hadn’t heard of anyone new being cannonized.
Not valid at all MAX…. And what’s even sadder, you KNOW its a poor piece of thinking!!
I am not even going to give you the satisfaction of answering anything that SAD…
Well then Chas, you aren’t a Pro-Choicer then.
Because, according to your own words, “Kansas, I do NOT have a choice to make in terms of abortion”
Since you don’t have a choice in the matter, the only thing left is abortion.
Therefore, you are pro-abortion.
I think I’ll choose a beer.
I’m pro-beer.
You can’t answer it Chas. You would have to admit that I am right and you are wrong.
Have a good evening.
Well, well, Max… Now I know what level your thinking is on… History recognizes the Modern Era as beginning in the early 16th Century… So, actually, my denominational backgrounds are far earlier than the Apostate Brigham Young…
You see, we dont NEED another “Testament” We find the two we have quite sufficient!!
Actually I am not standing in judgement on your beliefs I am just wondering what they are. When we were commanded to ‘Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature’ how do you marry this with your sidestepping most of what is in the bible. What gospel do you preach?
Pro Beer is good!!
“You see, like you, I am not a female” Posted by: Chas. | September 03, 2007 at 07:53 PM
I’m not female Chas, God placed a spout on the teapot when I was born.
So Chas, do you deliver the plan of salvation when you preach, especially at the close of sermon?
If not, why not?
Ksgrm, You have NO IDEA what I preach on Sundays… How DARE you make such a poorly thought out statement!! And how do you know what I “sidestep”??? And who is to say that you arent adding TO the Book??? I could probably easily make that argument, if I wanted to kill time…
The truth is, YOU dont know what it is I believe, because YOU dont really care… You are quite comfortable in your faith… and that is as it should be…
WHY cant you allow me to be just as comfortable in mine???
I have not ever even suggested that you should give up your faith…. That isnt the purpose of this Blog, and it SURE isnt the purpose of my Church… or of Matthew 28…
And I am certainly NOT questioning YOUR beliefs, and claiming that your beliefs do not exist!!! However, YOU do that to mine, every opportunity you get… You, Kansas, Max, and your whole little crew….
I guess because you have put yourself out there as a minister. There may be someone who is on the fence about salavation. What you do on this blog might turn them against organized religion. As a shepherd of men shouldn’t that concern you?
Hmmmm well, because, maybe, I am NOT of a denomination that does such a thing??? OUR worship normally closes with a celebration of Holy Eucharist, where Salvation is present in, with, and under the gifts of Bread and Wine…
The Sermon comes fairly early in the Order of Worship —
That satisfy you??? maybe???
And so I am, Ksgrm… for nearly 29 years ordained… I dont need your personal rendition of what ministers are to practice my faith as I know it… And if I am offending somebody, so be it… We dont all share the same beliefs… nor are we meant to… Now, if you dont believe that, then we really have nothing to say to each other about religion….
Chas VT puts himself out as a lawyer so when he gives a legal opinion we trust that opinion. If a doctor were in our blog and gave a medical opinion we would respect that opinion. You say you are a minister and when you give opinions can we trust that opinion? That is my point. You agree with the most liberal bloggers here and none of them are practicing CHristians to my knowledge.
Actually, there is a Doctor on our blog ksgrm. MPS is a physician.
Shoot, I could offend a WHOLE LOT of people in THIS CITY, just by telling them that I play the pipe organ, and even write hymns for guitar for use in Church Worship!!
Now, how would I offend them??? Because MANY in this VERY CITY believe it is against God’s Word to use musical instruments in Worship….
Do I worry about offending them??? NOT IN THE LEAST!!
So, why, dear lady, would I worry about offending somebody because my theology doesnt match theirs??? Those would also number in the hundreds, if not thousands!!
So, why dont you just stop worrying about it, and STOP ATTACKING WHAT I BELIEVE because it doesnt fit into YOUR PERSONAL MOLD????
Chas you are an enigma to me. Sorry. I have to go but for the record you can practice you faith however you wish. You aren’t accountable to me or anyone else here. You know that.
I love music, instrumental or otherwise, so guess I’m not ‘one of those’. Maybe we have more in common that I thought.
So you were a Minister of Music Chas?
I have a second cousin in the Salvation Army, he is a Minister of Music, but not ordained. He does the choir and solo singing preparations.
There’s another one that does the band and instrument preparation.
Four charged with using stolen IDs to get jobs
Posted by roboblogger on Saturday | via Dodge City Daily Globe
Four Mexican nationals who allegedly used stolen identities to get a job at a Dodge City beef-packing plant were arrested recently and charged with aggravated identity theft. via Dodge City Daily Globe
These four men ruined the credit history and lives of four REAL Americans. It will take tons of legal action and great expense to clear their names.
Why? Because Kansas encourages illegals to come and live here. Now that the Governor of Missouri is “cracking down”, look forward for MORE of us to get our identities stolen by this invasion of criminals.
Kansas should join Missouri in a public and aggressive stance against illegals. They will get the right message, instead of the mixed signals Kansas is providing them now.
BTW, no thanks to the meatpackers in Dodge City for this mess. They have been caught REPEATEDLY hiring these villians. Fine em and put them in the same jail cell as the illegal immigrants belong in.
Then I guess you dont know much about the liberal Bloggers… And why does it matter if they are Christians or not??? See, you have the REAL HANGUP here… Not ME!!! I dont care if they are Christian, or Buddhist, or Jew, or Catholic, or ATHEIST…. If I express a religious opinion, thats ALL it is… an opinion!!
An opinion is like an anal orifice…. We ALL GOT ONE… unless one has had some sort of operation, of course…
A LEGAL opinion is one that can be verified by the State and or Federal Statutes…
That opinion has a different starting point than the rest of us… And those folks are skilled in their functions of using the Law…
And just because the lawyers state an opinion, does that mean we are obligated to trust it??? I dont think so…. It means they have expressed an opinion based on their own life vocation…
Now, if I side with the Liberal Bloggers… that means I am a Liberal… most likely… Apparently, you are not accustomed to encountering a Liberal Clergyman… Does that bother me??? NO!!!
But it sure bothers YOU!!! It would seem to me that it is YOU that needs to deal with that problem… not ME!!!
See, I am just as comfortable with MY faith, as you are with yours… or Kansas is with his… whatever that might be…
And THAT TO is as it should be!
You got that right “American Way.”
There are a huge amount of illegal aliens who steal Social Security Numbers in order to get a job.
Several sting operations in the past few years have uncovered these thieves illegal aliens.
Kansas… is your mind really that narrow, or do you put it in a vice??? I said I play the pipe organ… I said I have written some music for guitar, for use in worship….
I did NOT say I am a minister of music… And you wont find anywhere posted that I have EVER said that…
All that says is that I have studied and played musical instruments for YEARS…
And I also said, that there are many many people in this city who would find it VERY offensive to have musical instruments played during a worship service in their Churches… Because they believe musical instruments in worship are against God’s Word…
I believe it was you Kansas who posted some numbers on illegal immigrants ICW numbers without healthcare insurance.
Could you please repost that information, please? And maybe provide a link to a source.
If I recall, the numbers were huge and discounting them, there really is little need to reform health care in America.
It was a simple question Chas, no need to blow a gasket.
Most churches I have seen have no objection to various instruments.
I don’t have any musical talent nor a singing voice, I croak out the hymns along with the rest of unshaven in the congregation.
In my church, they use bells, chimes, guitar, piano, organ and even has seen brass and woodwind instruments. Very seldom see drums although there are some percussion instruments brought in from time to time.
I am a minister of musicPosted by: Chas.
Musical Instruments are good in your religion, but killing unborn babies is not bad?
When do you have time to practise your religion Reverend Chas? You seem to spend most of your life on this blog. I see you all over Sunday morning, so no church for you?
Chas had a chance to pop back in and you finally gave me something I can sink my teeth into.
“If I express a religious opinion, thats ALL it is… an opinion!!”
You see my faith is based on fact. I have opinions about politics, social issue, my grandkids upbringing but I base my religion on the truth of Jesus Christ. On that note I do have to run.
I like all of those instruments… Wonderful additions to the worship atmosphere…
But… to some other folk, YOU ARE OFFENSIVE TO THEM… YOU ARE PREACHING AND PRACTICING A FALSE GOSPEL… IN THEIR OPINION…
And you see… when you attack MY faith… because it is different than yours… You do the same as those non-instrumental folks do to the rest of us who love the music!!
Ummm Faith is Faith…. it is not dependent on FACTS…. See, none of us can PROVE the Resurrection of Christ… But, it is the core belief of our FAITH…. Besides, religious opinion, is not necessarily based on faith anyway!!
Hey, Iowa Kid… You might try posting what was actually said:
“I did NOT say I am a minister of music…”
And how would you know where or when I go to church services??? And what business is it of yours anyway??? I attended a very nice service today… thank you very much… But it is not any of your business…
And if you are from Iowa, who cares what you think anyway??
Kindly remember… MY profession is not the subject of this, or any other Blog… So, just get off it… OK???
There is no “pro-choice”. Most abortions are coerced. Fathers of the tiny, living victims rarely ever get a choice about the killing of their baby. The baby never gets a choice about being mangled, dismembered, poisoned, or beheaded. Even the abortion industry admits that every abortion kills a living human being – usually for convenience, always for profit.There is no pro-choice. There is only pro-abortion on the one side, and abolition on the other.Abolition now.
“And if you are from Iowa, who cares what you think anyway??”Posted by: Chas.
Apparently the DNC since they want to take the votes away from Florida if they try to be first.
Parkay, You have the right to your opinion, as do all of us… That said, I have personally had about all of you OR people I can handle this Month… and last Month… and the Sunday when some of your like-minded thinkers entered, and disrupted a solemn assembly known as Holy Eucharist…
That goes a little bit beyond your right to an opinion… And where were you when Dr. Tiller’s Clinic was vandalized???
Just the primary vote, Hud… just the primary!! LOL
Oh, Kansas, you must have missed it, but I posted here about two weeks ago, or so, I am no longer ON Sabattical — but back to work!! LOL Guess you must have missed that… oh well…
American Way,
I believe this is what you are looking for (uninsured in the U.S.)
http://www.census.gov/prod/2007pubs/p60-233.pdf
2006 census, I believe Table 6 is what you are
interested in.
Joseph Antos of the American Enterprise Institute
did the analysis on the above census.The main website is http://www.aei.org/
The numbers you are looking for described by Antos
are below
uninsured who are NOT U.S. CITIZENS IS 45% of the
47 million.
Broken down by age, 18 – 24 years old – 29.3% of
the 47 million.
25 – 35 years old – 26.9% of the 47 million.
Broken down by salary, $75,000 or more per year -
8.5% of the 47 million.
Those are not U.S. Citizens, but not necessarily illegal aliens.
Although if there was some more investigation, one could find that the majority of the above statistic was indeed illegal aliens.
I’ll have to search for more information on that specific statistic.
Regardless, we shouldn’t be paying for free medical care for non-citizens and the non-citizen
statistic shouldn’t have been used by Michael Moore in his “Health Scare” movie as part of the 45 million total.
Moore’s scare tactic is typical of the Liberal goose steppers. They only include part of the information and exclude parts that incriminate themselves as spreader of false documentation and analysis.
I certainly appreciate Chas being on here to show that not all CHristians are fundies who want only to make us believe as they do.
Chas has his religious beliefs, and many who share them…and they’re fine with that without shoving their dogma on how the rest of us should live.
So thank you Chas- you’re the best Christian on this board.
Oleo was the one who vandalized Tiller’s clinic. Anti woman anti choicers are terrorists.
Abortion is simply terminating a FETUS. It is not killing a little tiny baby as some people think. That is like saying killing a seedling is killing a flower. And a seedling and a fetus are no different.
Yeah pmom, Chas makes it very convenient to adhere to his religious doctrine only when it suits the occasion, which isn’t here on the blog hoo-rahing for the aborted and those with the socialistic communistic tendencies.
???- you should read more. It’s only a theory in how birth control pills work. The most current studies are showing that they prevent ovulation, preventing pregnancy altogether.
But you must be catholic, because Catholics are about the only people who go nuts over birth control pills.
By the way, are you immunized against diseases? You know if you are, you took advantage of aborted babies GASP!
I find it interesting that one of the definitions of “dogma” is
a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
I guess that’s why they have “Seedling” clinics, eh Kev?
I mean those men and women go there to get fertile, so they can have “seedlings?”
Fertility clinics = Seedling clinics?
A new concept here folks.
Kansas, perhaps Chas believes that God has a plan for those babies, they’re better off with God?
Perhaps he has seen what happens when abortion isn’t an option for some.
Wouldn’t it be great if God made it so nobody needed an abortion in the first place? I guess that’s too much to ask.
beliefs, and many who share them…and they’re fine with that without shoving their dogma on how the rest of us should live.Posted by: political_mom
That’s fine PMOM, as long as Chas does NOT attempt to provide us answers based upon his religious beliefs.
He is not like the lawyers or doctors we have on this blog who can post professional opinions based upon their knowledge.
He has even indicated that religious beliefs are as many as the fish in the sea, and not based upon and fact.
He has only validated there is no expert in the religious field.
You can get that done now pmom, I think they call it ovario-hysterectomy. No worries ever about having children. If you change your mind, you can adopt or make plans to store your eggs before the OHE and have a surrogate mother.
I wonder if forced sterilization is in the future? :)
Thanks Kansas! (I forget to thank you initially.)
It seems a large percentage of those 47 million reported to be “without” healthcare,are illegal immigrants.Depending upon the actual numbers, seems sorta silly to socialize American medicine,for a few million of us who are without insurance. Why change what works for 270 million Americans for a handful it doesn’t.Rather than destroy medicine as we know it (I’m from the government and I’m here to help),just provide some sort of stipend to those who:1. Are American citizens2. Have documented proof their employer does NOT offer healthcare3. Have proof they have ATTEMPTED to procure healthcare from private sources, but have been refused.4. Have provided an income statement which under penalty of jail, demostrates a need.5. Only provide service for a time-period. Say two years. Like welfare, we don’t want to encourage generational participation.
Kansas once again shows his NON expertise… Kansas, I would hope you are aware, that many denominations do not have “Doctrinal Statements” or Creeds… Yours might even be one for all I know… I know ours doesnt have a CREED or a book of Doctrinal Statements… That is why we are of the “Free Church” Traditions… So, dont be pontificting about what Doctrines I do or dont have… What I said to Ksgrm goes the same for YOU too, Sir… It is not YOUR place to define MY beliefs for me, or for anybody else on this Blog… If I want my beliefs defined, I can do it just fine, thank you very much….
Hmmm so Iowa Kid… I cant put forth my beliefs… but YOU can take the time and the space to make a feeble attempt to debunk MINE??? When you dont even know what they are???
You sir, are a real joke!!
I know ours doesnt have a CREED or a book of Doctrinal Statements… That is why we are of the “Free Church” Traditions…
Oh my God, Chas is in a CULT!!!!
Then Chas, don’t ever put your beliefs in any of the statements defending a position on the blog because of your religious beliefs, because you have no Doctrine to back it up with. :)
Well, time to take a walk on by… and make room for the sock puppets on parade!! Have fun all!!
Good Night, Good Luck, and God bless… whatever you conceive God to be!!
Kansas, you really need to go back on whatever medications they had you on.
It’s called a salpingo-oopherectomy with total hysterectomy- in humans. You gave a vet term doofus.
Jesus.
And then you think you can adovcate for what I should do with my body? Tell me to avoid an unwanted pregnancy I should get sterilized? Well boy howdy that’d just cure all our damn problems wouldn’t it.
Flippin’ moron.
Mary, you talk out both sides of your mouth. I think you’re so torn you don’t know which way to go. That’s why I’m pro-choice, I let the woman decide which is best for her.
feeble attempt to debunk MINE??? When you dont even know what they are??? Posted by: Chas.
I simply stated there is NO religious expert. When it comes time, and you post an opinion based upon your religion, it will mean nothing.
I didn’t “DEBUNK” yours. You are not like a professional posting here. A doctor or lawyer will post with facts. You have stated your religion doesn’t have any of those.
You are only qualified to tell us what your particular brand of religion believes and how that belief impacts any rational discussion.
That doesn’t stand the test of being fact or fiction. A lawyer on law, or a doctor on medical practise are different from that.
Nor do I need any doctrine to back it up… I have Tradition, Reason, Experience, and Scripture.. That is the Quadrilateral of interpretation…
It does not need to be doctrinal… or Creedal…
I have Tradition, Reason, Experience, and Scripture.. That is the Quadrilateral of interpretation…
Posted by: Chas.
As you stated yourself, it means nothing. You are no expert as there can be no expert on religion. You are only qualified to speak for your particular religion and the faith based belief. No facts there.
iowa Kid, I beleive I made just such a statement about lawyers not long ago upthread… must have been before you got here…
FAITH and FACT have always been considered to be different things… If I post a statement based on FAITH, that is all it is based on… Along with Scripture, Tradition, Reason, and Experience…
Maybe you have heard this somewhere: In Essentials Unity; In Non-essentials Liberty; In all things, Love.
That statement has a long history in the “Free Church” Traditions…
I don’t know about reason chas, but 3 out of 4 ain’t bad. :D
PMom, Okay..whatever you want to call it. Call it getting spayed, the analogy is still there. Getting clipped, removing the playground, etc.
Actually PMom, I’m taking the same medication for another 5 days. Just not taking the pain killers as the put me to sleep and I can tolerate the pain mostly.
At least we fundies are not imposing brutal, violent beliefs on defenseless babies.
“Maybe you have heard this somewhere: In Essentials Unity; In Non-essentials Liberty; In all things, Love.”
Wasn’t that on the entry sign to the Bear Lake Hippie Commune?
I did not say there are no experts on religion… YOU said that… Of course there are experts on religion… religious history; religious art; religious relics; religious formation; religious interpretations; comparative religions; religious ethics; religious music; mercy sakes… MANY experts in religion in this world… and experts in MANY religions as well… No one person can be an expert in all areas… (just dont tell that to Kansas – it would hurt his fragile ego)
Might have been Kansas… but it is WAY FAR older than that particular place… FAR older…
Oleo, fundies just proprose violent, brutal, deadly and submissive beliefs upon grown women.
You wouldnt want to argue with a whole host of Church Historians now would you Kansas???
On second thought………..
AaaaaMen PMom!!
Historians are boring to argue with and most have a single interest in a specific point in history in which they will drumbeat their view.
You got a bad case of the itchies Iowa Kid??? Cause you sure are NIT pickin!! ROFL
Well, Kansas, you would certainly know all about such drumbeating….
Oleo, fundies just proprose violent, brutal, deadly and submissive beliefs upon grown women.
Posted by: political_mom | September 03, 2007 at 09:18 PM
No sense in being the victim PMom, as you stated before, it’s the law.
If you have no belief in dispatching the “seedling” to the tissue pile, then so be it.
God is your judge,not me. :)
Are you also familiar with the old adage: Those who do not know their history, are doomed to repeat it??? History is one of the CORE parts of a Liberal Arts Education…. as it should be…
Well, Kansas, you would certainly know all about such drumbeating….
Posted by: Chas. | September 03, 2007 at 09:21 PM
No Chas, I play the entire drum set.
Highhat, cowbell, snare, tom tom, bass, crash cymbal and on occasion squeeze horns.
God is your judge,not me. :)
Posted by: Kansas | September 03, 2007 at 09:22 PM
======================Now you’re getting the point, Kansas… That is as it should be… not decided by black robed justices of the SCOTUS….
But chas, before you can re-read your post after you post a message it’s already part of history and you haven’t learned a thing from it as you constantly post things about which you do not know. :D
And also, not decided by political adversaries grinding their teeth at each other in election debates…
Oh gee, Kansas, I do believe you have that backwards… You would seem to do quite a bit of that yourself… as Cosmos points out day after day after day after day, ad infinitum…. :-)
Besides, do you expect perfection??? I certainly dont!!
It’s called humor Chas…
With that I’m off to suffa sponge the barnacles from my fingers and the dusted skin from my body.
After that it’s classical music with some book reading, slumber slumber my eyes encumber, wilst tho allow my awakening or encourage the dark to steal the light…
tho=thou
Are you also familiar with the old adage: Those who do not know their history, are doomed to repeat it??? History is one of the CORE parts of a Liberal Arts Education…. as it should be…
History revision maybe, but not actual history. Stuff like how America is bad and Chavez is good. How so few Americans would have died if the bombs weren’t dropped on Japan? How the natives were not systematically killed by both the French, British, and Americans, it was all the savages fault?
As to abortion, the woman is not doing it to herself, but to the unborn within. If you support choice, then you support abortion. By the time a doctor will perform an abortion, the baby has a detectable heartbeat and brainwave activity.
Thats what I don’t like about public education, they don’t make history out to be very important. Then the public school books candy coat history, especially Americas history. Public School system teaches half truths. That is the one thing that sucks about history, is people like to cherry pick what they want to teach our kids.
I see some of my brethren have been using religion again as a way to justify their actions and belief system.
All of this is fine, as long as we have an understanding that religion is not Christianity. Religion is everything else lumped together. Christianty is based upon the written Word of God strictly in relationship to His Son Jesus Christ.
The Word and nothing but the Word.
Chas,
“In Essentials Unity; In Non-essentials Liberty; In all things, Love.”
So what are the “essentials?”
I support the right for a woman to make the decisions that are best for HER at the time, whether that be birth, adoption, or abortion. That doesn’t mean PRO ABORTION, that means PRO CHOICE.
Is that really so very hard to understand?
Politcal Mom,
What about a woman who thinks the “best for HER at the time” is drowning her 5 children?
Do you support her choice to do that too?
Well, Nathie.
Andrea Yates is a mentally disturbed person. Need I say that she’s also VERY religious?
http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?10+Duke+J.+Gender+L.+&+Pol%27y+1#H1N2
“I tell a man with a gun that he has a choice. He can shoot and kill anyone he wants.”
Hmm..I think if the “anyone he wants” is attached to his body and feeding off of it, he’s pretty darn justified in killing it.
God, I love it when these threads turn to abortion, because it’s beautiful how we will keep going around in circles and never agree on anything…
That said, I know several Christians who are pro-choice. They agree that there is no justification for banning abortion that does not come from religion (since we honor bodily autonomy in all other cases), and laws should not be based on religion.
I always like to point out McFall v. Shrimp, in which it was decided that nobody is forced to donate organs or bone marrow or blood against their will, even if its essentially sentencing someone else (even a child!) to death.
If we can’t legally justify forcing someone to allow their body to be used by another person, then we can’t legally justify forcing someone to allow their body to be used by another ?person?.
Anyway, that’s how the Christians I know validate their liberal leanings.
If we can’t legally justify forcing someone to allow their body to be used by another person, then we can’t legally justify forcing someone to allow their body to be used by another ?person?.
Anyway, that’s how the Christians I know validate their liberal leanings.
Posted by: Tara | September 04, 2007 at 03:05 AM
That’s how we define a Mother now – “Someone who allows their body to be used by another person”.
I can’t wait until next Mother’s day. I’ll look for a Hallmark card that says:
“Thanks Mom, for allowing me to use your body!”
You never answered my question, Chas…being a Christian, how do you justify abortion considering the 5th comandment? Do you stick your head in the sand like others and tell yourself it’s not really killing a human being? If so, medical science says you’re wrong. .how do you reconcile that with a Christian belief system?
Mary, you see Tara’s attempt to answer this question?
Even if the pro “A” people admit to killing a baby, now the rationale is that the baby is:
Using the mother’s body without the mother’s consent.
Even though the mother consented to MAKE the baby, this is their Justifiable Homicide defense.
It’s really just rationalized baby killing.
That doesn’t mean PRO ABORTION, that means PRO CHOICE.
But the only choice that you support is abortion. I notice how NARAL has switched to using its acronym instead of its name.
The baby deserves the same protection as the woman, but the neoliberals argue it is the woman’s body. While it is the woman’s body, the abortion is performed on the baby, which is not a part of the woman’s body.
National Association for the Repeal of Abortion Laws = NARAL
PRO-CHOICE = PRO-ABORTION
What does that say about an organization that has to disguise its name?
What’s that say about a person who cannot proclaim themselves to be Pro-Abortion? (They are Pro-Choice, which is different you know!)
NARAL wants to get rid of ALL Abortion laws. They want to make sure that anyone can get an abortion anytime, anywhere, and anyhow. And paid for by taxpayers, of course.
Sad. Sure says a lot about our society when it’s just seen as a “choice” and not a chld.
Good forbid people should use common sense and self control not to put themseleves in a position of having an unwanted pregnancy in the first place.
Mary, that would mean that people take personal responsibility/accountability for their actions.
This concept hasn’t been taught in my 3 kids’ public schools for at least the last 15 years.
There are even some of the diehard proabortions that support post-delivery abortions until the child is 1 year old or older since the child is not sentient enough at that point. Talk about hardcore pro-abortion philosophy.
There are even some of the diehard proabortions that support post-delivery abortions until the child is 1 year old or older since the child is not sentient enough at that point. Talk about hardcore pro-abortion philosophy.
Posted by: Abortion is Unjustified murder | September 04, 2007 at 11:40 AM
Yeah, Riiight!I think I’d like to see something that backs that up.
I’m against any abortion that doesn’t save the life or physical well-being of the mother. Mental health? Kids are going to drive you crazy anyway.
I’m also against having fundie whackos dictate what the rules should be.
I’m sick of the extremists on both sides, too. They tend to polarize the issue when what we need to do is come together for realistic solutions to the problem of unwanted pregnancies.
XXX, feel free to do your own research, but a small group advocates this, usually for handicapped children. There are some local people that believe that is okay as well.