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Open thread 9/23
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Sept. 23, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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127 Comments
Is everyone ready for another fun-filled day of the reichwingnuts and their constant bush worshipping behaviors?
It’s fun Apophis. I always like to see the psychology behind brainwashing.
This blog might be more fun if the fundies would stick to one name. There are so many names posted, most by the same person, that it’s almost comical in its apparent lunacy. If multi-personality is the problem that appears to infect republicans only, no wonder Iraq is such a mess. The left hand, as well as both feet, have no idea what the right hand is doing, etc.. Makes the ridiculous decisions made by this administration easier to understand anyway.
The Republicans often have multiple personalities because they have multiple principles. It hard to juggle all these things.
I know what you’re saying JM Walker! The Leftist Fundies do seem to always change their user names.
Just trolls! That’s all!
I have never changed my name becuase I have only 2 personality types- awake and asleep.
Well, the reports are coming in, and guess what? Governor leadership is on the WRONG side of EVERY water issue.
Including ethanol.
http://www.hdnews.net/Story/ethanol092307
SO… Adrian Polansky, a Clinton appointee and sebelius’ choice to head up the ks dept of ag, himself a big irrigator, thinks the drain on the aquifer from ethanol and irrigated grains is no big deal?
heheheheheheheheh……
History will judge him and this administration harshly, but he wont give a damn. He’ll fill his pockets and sebelius will be long gone to her next elective office before the piper is paid.
While governor leadership, and democratic royalty polansky (part of the Peterson dynasty) use our collective water supply to buy off the Corn Growers, Farm Bureau, and pay off political debts to steve irsik, janis lee, john bird, et al…
The water is leaving, never to be replaced. Do you mind? Do you care that YOUR water and the water your children will need is being used as political payoff or to gain political capital?
Get out yer wallets folks. I hear the piper is making up the invoice right now.
http://www.hdnews.net/Story/ethanol092307
Hee hee hee hee. This crap about “exisiting water rights” being purchased, and no NEW water rights being issued for ethanol are kinda like the fuzzy math being used by bushco regarding troop levels for the surge.
The state of kansas “surged” the water rights givaway for over 20 years under the “leadership” of David Pope. And he worked for the ks dept of ag, you know, the one headed by adrian polansky, the brother in law of Tim Peterson, the democrat’s first distric chair, and ALSO an irrigator?
SO.. after the water rights were overappropriated for at least a generation, NOW they are not even cutting back to “pre-surge” levels of water rights to enable ethanol plants and the irrigators who supply them.
Get it?
Oh but please, adrian, tell us again what a good steward of water rights the ks dept of ag is. Tell us how this overappropriation and the water sucking ethanol plants really dont harm kansas. Tell us how you are NOT pissing away our water supply.
And then let’s see if you can do it with a straight face.
And did I mention he’s governor leadership’s go-to boy, along with joe harkins, who headed up the kansas energy group and now is at the kansas commerce commission.
Hell, even someone with a KANSAS education can connect these dots…
I have a feeling that things are going to get very ugly in this country, soon. Alas, you libs have sown the seeds, I hope you will by happy with the outcome.
The Truth of Interracial Rape in the United States
By Lawrence AusterFrontPageMagazine.com | Thursday, May 03, 2007
Like Ahab’s search for the Great White Whale, liberals’ search for the Great White Defendant is relentless and never-ending. When, in 1988, Tawana Brawley’s and Al Sharpton’s then year-old spectacular charge that several white men including prosecutor Steven Pagones (whose name Brawley had picked out of a newspaper article) had abducted and raped the 15 year old was shown to be completely false, the Nation said it didn’t matter, since the charges expressed the essential nature of white men’s treatment of black women in this country. When the Duke University lacrosse players were accused of raping a black stripper last year, liberals everywhere treated the accusation as fact, because, just as with the Nation and Tawana Brawley, the rape charge seemed to the minds of liberals to reflect the true nature of oppressive racial and sexual relations in America.
To see the real truth of the matter, let us take a look at the Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2005. (Go to the linked document, and under “Victims and Offenders” download the pdf file for 2005.)
In Table 42, entitled “Personal crimes of violence, 2005, percent distribution of single-offender victimizations, based on race of victims, by type of crime and perceived race of offender,” we learn that there were 111,590 white victims and 36,620 black victims of rape or sexual assault in 2005. (The number of rapes is not distinguished from those of sexual assaults; it is maddening that sexual assault, an ill-defined category that covers various types of criminal acts ranging from penetration to inappropriate touching, is conflated with the more specific crime of rape.) In the 111,590 cases in which the victim of rape or sexual assault was white, 44.5 percent of the offenders were white, and 33.6 percent of the offenders were black. In the 36,620 cases in which the victim of rape or sexual assault was black, 100 percent of the offenders were black, and 0.0 percent of the offenders were white. The table explains that 0.0 percent means that there were under 10 incidents nationally.
The table does not gives statistics for Hispanic victims and offenders. But the bottom line on interracial white/black and black/white rape is clear:
In the United States in 2005, 37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man.
What this means is that every day in the United States, over one hundred white women are raped or sexually assaulted by a black man…http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=%7BF3E3CD97-197F-4D31-BF36-A4CBA45FCB13%7D
I doubt that an ethanol plant uses more water in a year than two or three irrigated circles; anyone have any actual facts?
In the United States in 2005, 37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man.
How many white females where raped by white men?
How many black females were raped by black men?
All you’ve proven is that a white man isn’t strong enough to rape a black woman. He’d get his A beat.
DoorQueen,
Is that ALL that I’ve proven, are you sure about that? You response is disgusting and typical of a guilty White lib or a cowardly, criminal minority. You “people” never, ever shock me but you constantly disgust me.
Remember, payback is gonna be a bitch!
“Remember, payback is gonna be a bitch!”
Ain’t it ever when the queen bitch is inhabiting the white house, and all the troll neo-cons are running for cover and whining like the little craig toe-dancers they really are.
Tell me JM, what does another meaningless election and that sow hillary have to do with my post?
Door king, are you really an idiot or do you just play one on the blog?
Are you not able to do research? Jeebus. Google average water use + ethanol plant and see what you get!
Corn Based Ethanol & Water Use & Farm Bill Update
“A 50-million gallon ethanol plant might use about 150 million gallons of water to make fuel. That’s more water than some small towns use, raising some …
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_6973.cfm – 39k
It takes about 15 gals of water to produce 1 gal of ethanol, depending on the technology. That doesnt even COUNT the irrigation that goes into producing the grain.
duh.
Not all irrigation circles use the same amount of water. Not all ethanol plants use the same amount of water.
But given the above information, and the use of “the google”. I think you should be able to figure it out.
Heavy on the “should”.
What exactly are you trying to say, KD? White guys only rape white women? It’s worse for a girl to get raped by a black man than a white man? Black guys are all rape machines who need to be lynched?
Jesus.
Rape is rape is rape, it’s all wrong regardless of the offender or victims skin color. Why is the thought of a white woman being raped by a black man so much more heinous than the other scenarios, KD?
Those statistics do reflect stats of interracial dating; there are many more black male-white female couples than vice versa. I wonder why that is, when rape is supposed to me more of a power thing rather than a sexual attraction thing.
So doorking…
“two or three irrigated circles”
How about now YOU produce some “facts” about irrigation circles?
Or are you just trolling?
Wonder why rape statistics reflect interracial dating statistics, I mean. But I should dig up interracial relationship stats first just in case I’m wrong.
Good post, Tara.
Also consider that in a lot places in the country, black women don’t even bother to report a rape because local law enforcement doesn’t give a rat’s ass about protecting them.
BTK’s first victims were hispanic. And he was white.
“Tell me JM, what does another meaningless election and that sow hillary have to do with my post?”
It’s an OPEN thread, ergo, I’ll post whatever I want in response to anything I want.
But meaningless election? Boy, this is the most critical election taking place in memory. If you’re so blinded by your own ignorance, would you be so kind as to step away from the voting booth? This country needs INFORMED voters, not neo-clones.
Oh, yeah. So was Charles Manson, so was Ted Bundy, so was Son of Sam, so the Green River Killer, so was John Wayne Gacy, so was Timothy McVey etc. etc. etc
Why are serial killers and homegrown terrorists invariably WHITE MALES?
Capn,
Almost ALL serial rapists are black or latino. The most prolific serial killing were the Zebra killing where hundreds of White Americans were killed, raped and mutilated by BLACKS. The most prolific serial killer in American history is a black man anmed Coral Eugene Watts.
JM,
If you really believe that their is any difference, substantially between the candidates served up by our “two” parties then you belong in a rubber room.
PS: I am not “neo-con” or a NEO anything for that matter.
Right. I DOES hurt to be that stupid.
Druid is in constant pain. That’s the only way to explain his idiotic rantings.
Also, he has not the foggiest clue of what druids actually believed.
They sooo need an “ignore” button on this WEBlog . . .
Little capnenabler is typical of libs, when confronted with facts he calls names and whines for an ingnore function on the forum.
Hopefully all of you libs and YOUR loved ones will personally reap the rewards of your insane and evil worldview.
PS: Druidism is the religion of my Celtic ancestors and I am well aware of what it is all about. You just stick to your weak, cowardly judeo-christian slave religion, it suits you.
Who would want to screw a black woman?
I wouldn’t.
Fabulous posts by the Libs this morning.
Wonderful racist topics reveal the Libs true caring nature.
This is what happens when they have no conservatives around to kick their tails.
Well, well, it seems that we are entering endgame. Mind you, if I were a politrickin’ I to would probably want to get guns out of the hands of folks who were skilled in their use. :)
VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
By Larry PrattSeptember 22, 2007NewsWithViews.com
Hundreds of thousands of veterans — from Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom — are at risk of being banned from buying firearms if legislation that is pending in Congress gets enacted.
How? The Veterans Disarmament Act — which has already passed the House — would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list.
This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the National Criminal Information System (NICS system) — prohibiting them from purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD.
The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away … forever. It is section 102(b)(1)(C)(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system. Those names — like the 83,000 records mentioned above — will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.
No wonder the Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to this legislation.
The House bill, HR 2640, is being sponsored by one of the most flaming anti-Second Amendment Representatives in Congress: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY). Another liberal anti-gunner, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is sponsoring the bill in the Senate….http://www.newswithviews.com/Pratt/larry81.htm
I know Bill didn’t support the 2nd Amendment, does Hillary?
I guess the “druid” wants to let just any mentally ill person run around with a gun??? So many people with PTSD dont always know what DAY it is… much less if they have their gun loaded… or unloaded, or even if it works!!
But they got it WITH them, cause they might get attacked, ya know…
darned sock puppet ballet started early today…
later!!
As usual, Chas distorts the story to fit his gun-ban agenda. (Sounds like Hillary doesn’t he?)
HR2640 goes way beyond banning guns for those with PTSD.
From above – read:
The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away … forever. It is section 102(b)(1)(C)(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system. Those names — like the 83,000 records mentioned above — will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.
(And why are you not in Church Chas?)
Sock Puppets Arise!
Chas would take 2nd Amendment rights away from our returning Veterans, just because they are returning Veterans.
Chas is part of the crowd that parades at soldiers funerals and calls all our soldiers “baby killers”.
AH Max the fascist……….it is your sect that pickets the funerals of soliders, not the the progressives.
You’ve NEVER seen me post anything against our veterans.
Chas has.
Wow! The New York Times saying they might have made an error. Well, maybe not the Times, but The Public Editor.
September 23, 2007The Public EditorBetraying Its Own Best Interests
By CLARK HOYTFOR nearly two weeks, The New York Times has been defending a political advertisement that critics say was an unfair shot at the American commander in Iraq.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/opinion/23pubed.html
Ks farm girl I suggest you learn math. I contended that an ethanol plant probably does not use more water than a few circles of irrigated crop.
If 12 inches of water is applied to a circle, the resultant water use is 39 million gallons of water.
Your figure is: A 50-million gallon ethanol plant might use about 150 million gallons of water:
You also claim that it takes 15 gallons of water to produce a gallon of ethanol. Why don’t you do the math? Does it take 150 million gallons of water or 750 million gallons? Somewhere in here you are being totally dishonest. It might take 15 gallons of water, but how much is recycled?
All I contended was three crop circles probably used as much water as an ethanol plant. Ethanol plants are not huge water users given the billions and billions of gallons used by agriculture. They are not a water danger, the crops themselves are.
Let’s conclude this. You don’t know math, and you’re so politicized that you even dispute arithmetic if it has the potential to challenge your concept of good and evil.
Question, Max.
Were you ever in the military?
(And why are you not in Church Chas?)
Posted by: Max | September 23, 2007 at 11:02 AM
======================
Been there done that… and YOU???
And, uhhh Max… I would NEVER picket a soldier’s funeral… Check with the Phelps clan on that one… I’ve buried a lot of dead kids killed in war… You cant claim I picket their services… Shoot, idiot, I am the Officiant for those services!! LUNATIC!!!
XXX — Max had to look up a link to see if he was ever in the Military… LOL
Generald Delayus?
Barbara Kingsolver has written a book, “Animal, Vegetable, Mineral” in which she raises the point about raw materials-extracting economies, such as mining and timber harvesting. Basically, these are non-sustainable activities. They may last for as little as a decade to more than a century, but eventuallly resources are depleted, and people dependent on the extractive activities must either move out or devise completely new economic strategies.
An agricultural economy that depends upon non-renewable groundwater is extractive. The Ogallala aquifer’s water, like Kentucky’s coal, took millions of years to form. The water has only been under extraction for less than 50 years, but is becoming severely depleted, and under current usage levels, will become progressively more expensive to draw from (e.g. the water must be pumped from progressively greater depths, using more energy, and thus money, to bring to the surface).
In other words, the lifting of water will incur progressive increasing costs that will make the process uneconomical, particularly in concert with unit energy-cost rises (BTU’s, Joules) which are a certainty.
Western Kansas has been depopulating for decades. Ethanol production isn’t going to stop this process. Importantly, by being dependent on extracting Kansas groundwater, it is a resource-depleting scheme. A century from now, and probably in half that time, the western counties will be littered with rusted-out remnants of ethanol plants, and farmland will be peopleless, uncultivatable semi-desert.
Sadly, Kansas leaders do not possess foresight. Within 50 years Ogallala water would become a highly valuable, marketable resource that would bring in far more money, for example, sold to Denver as drinking water, than short-horizon schemes like using it for ethanol production, and coal-fired electricity generation. The water could alternatively or coincidingly be used to support greenhouse-ag production of high-value vegetables.
The “trick” is to envision the long-horizon future, and hold onto the water for now to let its value rise over time, rather than squander it for a quick, far smaller payoff. Just about the time water value begins to skyrocket, Kansans are going to realize, “Darn, we had so much of it, but now it’s gone.”
Barbara Kingsolver has written a book, “Animal, Vegetable, Mineral” in which she raises the point about raw materials-extracting economies, such as mining and timber harvesting. Basically, these are non-sustainable activities.
Except we now grow more wood in the U.S. than we harvest, and the large areas of the U.S. are being reforested. And, no molecule of steel or nickle or lead or copper is ever destroyed by mining. What you are saying is true about western Kansas water, but isn’t true in any location which has a riparian aquifer, and you have to remember, most crops in this country are not irrigated.
MPS et al: You are correct. And please mention that drawing down the Ogallala aquifer will threaten Wichita’s water supply in the near future.
I was raised in Pratt near the sources of the two branches of the Ninnescah River. These TWO branches have always produced cool clear water running rather rapidly eastward towards Wichita and southward to the Arkansas River.
IN MY OPINION AND VARIOUS GEOLOGISTS I HAVE TALKED TO, THE SOURCE OF THE NINNESCAH RIVER WATER IS FROM “SEEPAGE” FROM THE OGALLALA AQUIFER.
The Ninnescah River’s beautiful tree-lined south branch is the one that criss-crosses Highway 54 between Kingman and Cunningham looking much like a rapidly flowing mountain stream.
The north branch runs a little further north crossing K-61 southwest of Hutchinson near Arlington and then on into Cheney Lake and southeastward past Cheney towards Wellington.
The City of Wichita takes about 70% of its drinking water (according to a recent comment by a Wichita water official) from Cheney Lake.
The other 30% or so of Wichita’s drinking water is pumped up from the Equis Beds aquifer just south of Halstead, Kansas. The Wichita water department has a recharge operation pumping water from the Little Arkansas River back into the Equis Beds aquifer in times of high flow … in effect using the Equis Beds aquifer as a holding tank for future Wichita water needs.
This has the plus of conserving some surface water for future use.
But it has the potential negative of putting polluted surface water into the underground aquifers. The City of Wichita is improving its treatment of this surface water before putting back into the ground.
I believe Ben Huie, KsFarmGrrl and I are in general agreement on water matters. Now I admit Ben and I do have a slightly different view of the Equus Beds aquifer. I think its hydrologically connected to the Ogallala aquifer from further west although located in shallower stratas and a different geologic strata.
Ben Huie thinks the Equus Beds aquifer is more closely defined as an “alluvial aquifer,” that is an aquifer that generally follows the thread of a flowing river such as the Arkansas and Little Arkansas rivers and gets its water from underflow water from that surface stream bed.
o the regular Wichita citizen who wants to be able to drink municipal water and take a shower, the source makes little difference.
What is important is that our legislature protect our Kansas drinking water sources from manufacturers of ethanol and electrical power, etc. so that Kansas and Wichita’s water supply doesn’t dry up in the near future.
As several people point out in and out of this WE Blog, including especially KsFarmGrrl, our Kansas Governor and U.S. Senators and Congressmen are displaying a complete lack of backbone in this dangerous and growing chess game battle for water in Southern and Western Kansas.
Regarding water for ethanol production, my impression is it takes from seven to 15 gallons of nNEW WATER for every gallon of ethanol produced. STOP TALKING ABOUT RECYCLING WATER … IT DOESN’T HAPPEN … SEVEN TO 15 MORE GALLONS ARE NEEDED FOR EVERY GALLON OF ETHANOL PRODUCED.
I don’t have time right now to summarize the millions and millions of gallons of ethanol being manufactured in Kansas and proposed to be manufactured in Kansas but will do that soon if someone else doesn’t.
BUT I GUARANTEE EVERYONE THE FUTURE OF KANSAS IS ON THE LINE OVER ETHONOL AND PROPOSED NEW COAL-FIRED ELECTRICAL PLANTS OUT BY GARDEN CITY.
AND I’M A MODERATE CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN AT THAT. JUST THINK WHAT THE SIERRA CLUB MEMBERS ARE SAYING. ITS NO JOKE NOW.
The global warming denialists are at it again, making completely false attacks on Dr. Hansen.
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2007/09/to_rasool.php
“Expect bogus “Hansen predicted an ice age” claims to start appearing in right-wing pundits op-eds this week.”
My suggestion is to move the ethanol productions where there is water. Eastern Kansas and areas east of the Missouri River.
Then shut down the irrigation circles in western Kansas. As MPS points out, it is a zero sum game, and the people of Kansas are on the losing end.
See how easy that was? Why argue about which is worse, irrigation or ethanol production, when ethanol involves BOTH.
Shut ‘em both down!
The priority should be on making higher mpg vehicles, not biofuels.
Biofuel research is finding new, more efficient technologies. Research should continue, instead of going into large scale production.
Vehicles made today will be used for many years. Boosting mpg would cut oil usage, AND the amount of biofuel needed.
Producing ethanol for one 15 mpg pickup truck, when it could fuel TWO 30 mpg pickups is stupid, and wasteful.
Geez Doorking, before you go off half cocked…
Here is a link to the 15:1
Experts Differ About Ethanol-Water Usage – Forbes.com
It takes an average of about 15 gallons of water to produce a gallon of ethanol …
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/10/ap4007262.html
The POINT is that you cant make those kinds of comparisons between a “few” irrgation wells and ethanol plants. The ethanol plants vary and so do the irrigation wells.
And, as I mentioned, you could solve the problem of kansas using water as political capital by moving the ethanol plants and shutting off the irrigation.
It’s gonna happen sooner or later. Looks like MOST of the elected officials in kansas are content to run out the clock on their watches and let their CHILDREN pay the piper for their water wastin’ ways.
How about if we man up and woman up and pay the price now for what we know will be the inevitable bill for unsustainable farming practices?
Gov’s ability to deny Sunflower permit, an ethanol report, and much more here,http://kansas.sierraclub.org/Issues/EnergyFacts.htm
I’m baaaaaaacck!
Well, almost back. Gotta get an ISP.
Heh heh I’ve just been handed a freaking nuclear weapon of a computer. Fear me!
“Research should continue, instead of going into large scale production.”
Agreed cosmos!
Heheheh. Welcome back JR.
The Iraqi government will file criminal charges against employees of U.S. security firm Blackwater who are blamed for a gun battle in Baghdad in which civilians were killed, an Iraqi Interior Ministry official said Sunday.http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/23/blackwater.probe/index.html
Look out JR — Mr. Kansas doesnt like those kind of links… He will find one that he thinks refutes that story… like always!
The root problem with very important issues like global warming, water usage, ethanol, etc. is that too many people do NOT think long-term.
We need to think of future generations.
‘Dean Debuts Environmental Strategy for Next 100 Years’July 31, 2003
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/jul2003/2003-07-31-04.asp
“Dean said he has a 100 year vision for the environment, because, like Roosevelt, he believes true leadership includes protecting the environment for future generations.
…Concluding his environmental policy speech, Dean said today, “One hundred years from now, our children’s children will read about the challenges that faced early 21st century America. It will be either a tale filled with great deeds and noble acts or one of unspeakable neglect and irresponsibility. Let us act so that they will not be analyzing in their history books why we took so long to secure our environment – or why we did nothing.” “
Hey MAX,
Are you going to back up your claim about MoveOn’s “propaganda”?http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/09/open-thread-922.html#comment-83761857
Didn’t you do any research, BEFORE attacking them?
It won’t be that many children. No one lives in western kansas, or haven’t you noticed?
In addition, how many kids would be left in western Kansas if you shut down the wells?
Two very good columns, by Seth Borenstein.
‘Scientists Hopeful Despite Climate Signs’http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hQgBCb6lEVac4JPDJK_TRRWSGixQ
” Climate scientist Michael Mann runs down the list of bad global warming news: The world is spewing greenhouse gases at a faster rate. Summer Arctic sea ice is at record lows. The ice sheets in Greenland and West Antarctica are melting quicker than expected.
Is he the doomsayer global warming skeptics have called him?
Mann laughs. This Penn State University professor — and many other climate scientists — are sunny optimists. Hope blooms in the hottest of greenhouses.”More at link.
‘Rising Seas Likely to Flood U.S. History’http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g8DNoBXyskx2ghNKJqYuTkyD7SPA
“Ultimately, rising seas will likely swamp the first American settlement in Jamestown, Va., as well as the Florida launch pad that sent the first American into orbit, many climate scientists are predicting.
In about a century, some of the places that make America what it is may be slowly erased.
Global warming — through a combination of melting glaciers, disappearing ice sheets and warmer waters expanding — is expected to cause oceans to rise by one meter, or about 39 inches. It will happen regardless of any future actions to curb greenhouse gases, several leading scientists say. And it will reshape the nation.”More at link.
“It takes an average of about 15 gallons of water to produce a gallon of ethanol …”Posted by: ksfarmgrrl
The Sierra Club link that Comos put up in the next message has a report from the Food and Water Watch Org. stating it takes, on average, 4 gallons of water for every gallon of ethanol. Apparently, recycling is having a good effect on ethanol production. Good but not good enough.
While water usage is an issue Food and Water Watch seems to place the contamination of the water supply as a larger issue.
Using grain to make ethanol will move many farmer into increasing production of the grains used. This will increase the fertilzer and pesticide runoff and make for a lot of contamination.
Our limited supply and the likely contamination of our water supply means putting an ethanol plant in Kansas just does not make sense. If you add in the fact the amount of ethanol that will be produced compared with the National usage of fuel, we need to find a better way.
Druid, in that SAME report that you have cited, it says in another section under VICTIMS AND THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM…
Only about 40% of ALL Rapes go reported to the police.
Farther down on Table 94, of rapes, only 17% of blacks report rapes.
On Table 103, the reason for not reporting crimes, for blacks…25% say that the reason they did not report was because they feared police would not want to be bothered, or they would not care.
Gee, you think maybe that has something to do with it especially after the Duke case?
See, all you gotta do is dig a little bit deeper to find the real answers you supremist scum.
And yet, another Druid spin.
From HR 2640 Text itself…
D) INFORMATION UPDATES- The agency, on being made aware that the basis under which a record was made available under subparagraph (A) does not apply, or no longer applies, shall–
`(i) update, correct, modify, or remove the record from any database that the agency maintains and makes available to the Attorney General, in accordance with the rules pertaining to that database; or
`(ii) notify the Attorney General that such basis NO LONGER APPLIES so that the National Instant Criminal Background Check System is kept up to date.
B) information regarding all the persons described in subparagraph (A) of this paragraph who have changed their status to a category not identified under section 922(g)(5) of title 18, United States Code, FOR REMOVAL, when applicable, from the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.
Standard for Adjudications, Commitments, and Determinations Related to Mental Health-
(1) IN GENERAL- No department or agency of the Federal Government may provide to the Attorney General any record of an adjudication or determination related to the mental health of a person, or any commitment of a person to a mental institution if–
(A) the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, has been set aside or expunged, or the person has otherwise been fully released or discharged from all mandatory treatment, supervision, or monitoring;
(B) the person has been found by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority to no longer suffer from the mental health condition that was the basis of the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, or has otherwise been found to be rehabilitated through any procedure available under law; or
(C) the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, is based solely on a medical finding of disability, without a finding that the person is a danger to himself or to others or that the person lacks the mental capacity to manage his own affairs.
Those Reich Wingers, you gotta keep watch over what they put out there.
Gee… and I didn’t think Ian could SPELL “druid”.
polmom,
You are obviously just another hysterical, utopian, egalitarian, collectivist female incable of rational discourse so I will just leave you to stew in your own self hate. Or better yet, go with you family and dwell in a ghetto or barrio somewhere. Millions of European Americans have paid a heavy price in blood and traesure as a result of your forced, failed, insane and evil “multicultural” experiment.
PS: I think you meant “supremacist”.
PPS: Godwin’s law Mr. Contoversy, it’s capnenabler’s job to denounce and accuse realists of being “IAN SANTIAGO”.
Door King,
I appreciate your comments. Actually the only region that has sustainable-renewable timber production is the Southeast.
On the Pacific Coast, replanting of logged areas is done, but the re-growth cycle is too slow: getting a 12-inch-trunk tree takes 60+ years. And this assumes intensive cultivation, including eradication of maple, oak, madrone, manzanita seedlings, not to mention blackberry vines and other high-growth-rate “weeds”. The expense is inordinate. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen an old growth Ponderosa pine, Doug fir or Western cedar forest, or knot-free clear boards cut from trees with 6 foot-diameter trunks (or larger), but that type of fine-quality wood–which the Japanese are gobbling up the last remnants that are still harvested, takes 200-400 years to grow.
If you look at Colorado’s second-growth forests, they’re not harvestable a century after logging. Even worse, the allowance of regrowth of pines and spruces without thinning has laid the foundation for mega forest fires, a hazard intensified by widespread blister beetle infestations in the northern half of the state.
I don’t know if you get out much, but I spent childhood summers in the Sierra Nevada, where you couldn’t drive 20 miles without coming across a lumber mill with a log pond and conical chip burner.
I lived as an adult in the foothills of the Cascades, and watched lumber mills close right and left in the 80s.
I just got back from Wyoming. It has no lumber-grade forests anymore. I saw very few in Montana four years ago. Idaho’s lumber industry is better, but is nevertheless shrinking.
Our western forests that once containing what the most astonishing timberland on the planet (think about loggers cutting a Sequoia down and using the stump as a square dance floor, after harvesting enough wood from a single tree to build several hundred home frames) are in terrible shape.
On metals, they are recyclable. But that doesn’t help the people in mining areas where the metal ores are removed, because the recycling occurs elsewhere.
“You are obviously just another hysterical, utopian, egalitarian, collectivist female incable of rational discourse so I will just leave you to stew in your own self hate.”
Sounds like typical Stormwatch/National Vanguard crap to me.
I did mean Stormfront.
What’s wrong Druid, did I challenge you and win? Aw. Can’t compete with something to come back with? Po wittle pointy hat wedneck.
By the way, I said it right. Another thing you should look up before posting about. Perhaps if you can’t debate with the big dogs, you should sit on the porch.
SupremistDefinition: one who takes supreme authority for him/herself; one who believes in the supremacy of one race, sex, or social group; also called supremacist
FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN WATER REQUIREMENTS IN GALLONS PER GALLON OF ETHANOL PRODUCED …. I just did a google search and came up with many different figures from four gallons of water to 20 gallons of water needed per gallon of ethanol produced.
Apparently even when the water is “used” and discarded, four to 20 gallons of new water are required.
And this doesn’t include the huge amount of water required for irigation of corn or maize or other crops usable for ethanol.
THE WAY I SEE IT, KANSAS DRINKING WATER SOURCES WILL BE IN DEEP, DEEP TROUBLE IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE.
BETTER BEGIN STOCKING UP ON BOTTLED WATER QUICK.
Kansas Druid = Kansas = Outlander?
Hmmmmm could be MaidMarion!!
MY ESTIMATE OF ETHANOL PLANTS IN KANSAS FROM VARIOUS SOURCES IS AS FOLLOWS:
Nine ethanol plants EXISTING in Kansas: 270,500,000 gallons/year
Six ethanol plants under const:300,000,000 gallons/yr.
Two ethanol plants nearly complete:
140,000,000 gal/year.
Total: 710,500,000 gal/year.
PLUS an additional nine ethanol plants being considered in Kansas to produce an estimated additional 845,000,000 gallons per year.
IF ALL BUILT AND IN OPERATION ACCORDING TO MY FIGURES, THIS WOULD TOTAL SOME 1,555,000,000 GALLONS OF ETHANOL PER YEAR.
TO FIND THE TOTAL WATER REQUIREMENT FROM OUR ANCIENT RELATIVELY PURE OGALLALA UNDERGROUND AQUIFER UNDER WESTERN AND CENTRAL KANSAS:
MULTIPLY BY A CONSERVATIVE AVERAGE OF TEN GALLONS OF WATER PER GALLON OF ETHANOL PRODUCED:
15,550,000,000 GALLONS OF OGALLALA AQUIFER WATER NEEDED PER YEAR!
DIVIDE BY 15,000 GALLONS OF WATER USED BY EACH KANSAN PER YEAR GIVES A FIGURE OF WATER FOR 1,000,000 KANSANS OR ABOUT 1/3 OF ALL DRINKING WATER USED IN KANSAS WOULD BE RE-ROUTED TO ETHANOL PLANTS IN KANSAS.
So, can 1,000,000 Kansans be convinced not to drink water or take showers for a year. Perhaps Governor Sebelius, Senator Brownback and Congressman Teahrt can draw straws to determine the one out of three Kansans who will have to forsake use of water for a year.
ANYBODY CARE TO DISPUTE MY FIGURES? Governor Sebelius??
What’s wrong with being a redneck?
I witnessed something quite extraordinary last week. My spouse and I went to Grand Teton and Yellowstone National Parks. Third week of September. In 1977 they would have been nearly empty. But not in 2007. There were a lot of RV-driving/trailering retirees. But also young and middle-aged adults.
A very interesting group was children. Why weren’t they in school? They were. They were in home-schools engaging in “discovery learning”. They were reading expert-designed text displays, and listening to engaging young natural history-expert teachers who had degrees in biology, zoology, botany and geology. The kids got to put together the expert didactic presentations on biology and geology with real-world observations.
I suspect that Apophis would whine that it’s not fair to compare the constraints of a mass-endronement public education system, in which families are somebody else’s experimental ideas, to free-spirited families’ self-inventing their own child-learning experiments.
He would be right, no doubt. If you as a parent are confident enough to reject a 13-year government program for your children and say, “I think maybe we can do child-rearing and child-education on our own,” and if you think, “My kids need to learn about natural science by actually observing and interpreting the amazing natural world, not just believe what they are told” then you really should consider getting your kids out of of forced-confinement experience-depriving government schools.
If you don’t have this self-confidence, then put your kids into government education factories. But don’t complain about the consequences. Or DO complain, unremittingly, and make public education different from what it is now. Apophis has most of you sized up to a T: he’s a self-interest-seeking activist, and you’re just passive sheeple. Show some courage and force him to adopt a new perspective.
He says he doesn’t care what you think, but he’s on the government payroll. This means he lives on your dollars. If he doesn’t want to be responsive to your demands, he doesn’t have to be. Which is to say, he is free to have his own ideas, and you are free not to give him your dollars. Which is to say, he can harbor and express his own ideas–this is America, he should be able to do these things– while at the same time you don’t have to pay these things.
When Apophis says, “I don’t give a s**t what you people think, but you have to pay me,” that’s an irrational, these dots don’t connect, sentiment.
“ANYBODY CARE TO DISPUTE MY FIGURES? Governor Sebelius??”Posted by: JWink
No, I do not. But I just email the Gov. She probably will not listen but I did my part.
“Kansas Druid = Kansas = Outlander?”
I strongly doubt that. There is a difference between a stuanch Christian Conservative (which outlander appears to be), a complete provocative right wing troll (which Kansas/Republican/Republikahn apears to be), and someone like Kansas Druid (racist white power xenophobe). On the other hand, I suspect that Kansas Druid and Kansas Gnostic MAY be one and the same (as well as Gul Dukat).
Depends JWink, how many gallons of water are there in an aquifer? Or does anyone really know?
How much acre feet of rain fall for distributable use do we retrieve each year and translate that to gallons of water?
Gallons are a handy unit, but compare it to our existing water supply.
Can you do that?
Thanks HUD … perhaps Gov. Kathleen Sebelius will volunteer to give up drinking water and bathing during 2008 to shine a spotlight on our rapidly disappearing under-ground Ogallala aquifer water.
Mark, your attack on Apophis remains a red herring (and I am NOT a fan of the way Apophis conducts himself on this board). But your attack on his qualifications is totally irrelevant to the evolution discussions you have been having.
Stop it. Please.
maidmarion having another one of her/his tinfoil hat moments accusing me of being someone who I’m not.
Perhaps she/he should just learn to debate the issues and leave the troll conspiracy theories in their back pocket.
JWink,
Think I found an answer to my question. Now I have to find out how many acre feet in rainfall drop on Kansas per year that renews its water sources.
“The High Plains aquifer system underlies 174,000 square miles in parts of eight States (CO, KS, NE, NM, OK, SD, TX and WY). Approximately 20 percent of the irrigated land in the United States is in the High Plains and about 30 percent of the ground water used for irrigation in the U.S. is pumped from the High Plains aquifer.High Plains Regional Ground Water (HPGW) Study
The next time you’re doing the dishes, look at the sponge you may be using. It doesn’t really look as if it could hold very much water, but give it a squeeze and you discover that it holds more than you thought it could. Now imagine a sponge that’s big enough to cover parts of eight states anywhere from a few feet to a thousand feet thick; that’s the Ogallala aquifer (a.k.a. the High Plains aquifer), a giant underground sponge. Estimates put the volume of the Ogallala aquifer at over one million billion (i.e. one quadrillion) gallons of water; enough water to fill Lake Huron and then some. And if it’s still a bit difficult to envision just how much water that is, do a quick calculation. One quadrillion gallons is about 3.3 billion acre-feet of water (an acre-foot, unfamiliar to most of us, is simply the volume of water that will cover an acre of land to a depth of one foot). There are approximately 1.9 billion acres of land in the lower 48 states, which means the volume of water in the Ogallala aquifer would cover that entire land area to a depth of almost two feet! Now that’s a lot of water!”
http://www.oswego.edu/~schneidr/CHE300/envinv/EnvInv12.html
Yup, any proud White man who doesn’t grovel like a worm and start a post with; “I am not a racist but…..”, is a xenophobe, racist, etc. It is amusing watching you grovelling, politically correct castrati call out real men.
Grow a pair, agnostic, and pick a side, stand for something! those who are tolerant of everything stand for nothing!
BTW, Mark, I liked your post on water in Kansas. Particularly the part that points out that the water in the Aquifer is going to be far more valuable economically than coal generated electricity or ethanol production that use lots of water.
“Grow a pair, agnostic, and pick a side, stand for something! those who are tolerant of everything stand for nothing!”
I’m not tolerant of everything. For example, I am not tolerant of fools like you who see ethnic differences as major racial divisions that define who a person is. You can say what you like, but I will label it as the pathetic drivel that it is. Humans are individuals defined by a multitude of factors, not representatives of competing races. There’s a word for people who make assumptions about another person based on their ethnic appearance or background. That word is bigot.
The precipitation falling over the state amounts to 118.7 million acre-feet in an average year, and about 13 million acre-feet per year leaves the state as streamflow. The streams annually accumulate 11.3 million acre-feet of runoff within the state. The following figure illustrates these water-budget components for the state of Kansas.http://www.kgs.ku.edu/HighPlains/atlas/atswqn.htm
Converted to gallons per minute is73,160,000 gallons per minute
15550000000 = 47721 acre feet
118.7 – 47721 acre feet = 118,652,279 acre feet of rain fall per year in Kansas left for other uses.
http://www.western-water.com/Acre-Foot_formula.htm
Which if I calculated correct that means that ethanol uses less than 0.04 percent of rainfall water per year in Kansas.
Don’t know anything about this just trying to establish some facts before discussing it.
Correct me if I’m wrong on the calculations, it has been a pain med day. :)
oops, the 15550000000 = 47721 acre feet was from JWinks figures of water usage for Ethanol production.
The reforestation is occurring all over the east, and in the cities. Growing cities mean trees. Funny how it works.
Jwink: the numbers merely sound huge, but even if accepted, they are really nothing in comparison with the water pumped to grow corn in this state. Or for that matter, very likely, the water consumed by cattle.
It’s enough water to grow about 50,000 acres of corn.
From what I read, Nebraska irrigates at two to three times the rate Kansas does. So their water use of the aquifer would be much higher than Kansas by far.
I realize the aquifer is “fossil” water, but am having a hard time getting a handle on how much usage is made by Kansas as compared to the total capacity of the aquifer and above ground water sources.
I’ve also read that there are ancient “glacier valleys” that contain underground water that has yet to be measured as the only way to get to it are with deep oil well drilling rigs.
The underground replenishing scheme appears to occur in decades and in some cases hundreds of years. That sounds like a long time, but when and where do we put the start mark to consider the replenishing cycle?
The United States Geological Survey appears to have somewhat of a handle on this, but it would takes a bit of study to translate into layman’s terms for understanding.
Any geologists out there want to take a stab on specific quantities of recoverable water supplies per year (rain, downstream flows)for Kansas?
So…. is it ludicrous to be building so many ethanol plants in western Kansas??? Or is it feasible???
Congratulations to one of our regular WEBlog posters on his excellent letter-to-the-editor today in the Eagle.
Mega dittos.
To KsFarmGrrl, Kansas, Ben Huie, Door King, KsAg and all others interested in the Ogallala aquifer, ethanol and Kansas drinking water situation …
I put a telephone message on Rhonda Holman’s answering device at the EAGLE earlier today (since she occasionally takes an interest in WATER). I asked her to please add a thread on WATER so our comments are accumulated in one thread that is retained “for the record” so to speak.
I wish she could move some of our water comments today to this WATER thread assuming Rhonda decides to set one up.
I admit I winged my calculations as I went. But they do seem to show a lot of water will be taken out of the ground for ethanol.
By the way, who was the WE Blogger with the letter to the editor today?
Shhhhhh be vewy kwiet… we dont want to disturb any reich wingers listening to the weekly talking points on Drudge Report!! LOL
By the way, we all know that it wasnt just Americans who were killed in the WTC tragedy of 9/11… There were numerous other foreign nationals killed as well… I was wondering today, how many of those might have been Iranian??? And wouldnt the President of that sovereign nation be entitled to lay a wreath of memorial???
I am NOT a big fan of Mahmud Imadoinmyjob… but he is the elected leader of another nation who lost lives in the WTC destruction…
ksagnostic,
I haven’t mentioned evolution in a long time. I was just pointing out that I saw home-schooled kids learning stuff by absorbing and comparing interpretations of physical evidence prepared by scientists with their own direct observations of evidence. Their parents had to DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT for this to happen.
I think if I were a child, this would be a lot more interesting and fun than being cooped up in an industrial-age-ideology classroom. Education can be fun, and it should be.
Interesting Reading >>>>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7006640.stm
Isn’t it obvious who has been calling the shots in the ‘bush presidency’?Cheney mulled Israeli strike on Iran: Newsweek Sun Sep 23, 2:34 PM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Vice President Dick Cheney had at one point considered asking Israel to launch limited missile strikes at an Iranian nuclear site to provoke a retaliation, Newsweek magazine reported on Sunday.
ADVERTISEMENTThe news comes amid reports that Israel launched an air strike against Syria this month over a suspected nuclear site.
Citing two unidentified sources, Newsweek said former Cheney Middle East adviser David Wurmser told a small group several months ago that Cheney was considering asking Israel to strike the Iranian nuclear site at Natanz.
A military response by Iran could give Washington an excuse to then launch airstrikes of its own, Newsweek said.
Wurmser’s wife, Meyrav Wurmser of the neoconservative Hudson Institute think tank, told Newsweek the claims were untrue.
Wurmser left Cheney’s office last month, the magazine reported. The steady departure of neoconservative hawks from the administration has also helped tilt the balance against war, it said.
Washington has been pursuing diplomatic efforts to persuade Iran to alter its nuclear program. It has refused to take military options off the table, even U.S. resources are taxed by having 169,000 troops in Iraq.
Although some intelligence sources say Iran is years away from nuclear capability, Israel believes that military action may be necessary as early as 2008, Newsweek said.
Israel has declined to comment on the reported air strike, while Syria has denied receiving North Korean nuclear aid and said it could retaliate for the September 6 violation of its territory.
Ahmadinejad was welcomed with open arms today by Columbia University.
Columbia University, MoveOn.org, and Ahmadinejad all seem to be on the same side. Scary.
https://pol.moveon.org/donate/iranad.html
https://pol.moveon.org/donate/war_on_iran.pdf
http://pol.moveon.org/noescalationiniran/
http://pol.moveon.org/dontnukeiran/
(And who said I didn’t read moveon.org?)
MoveOn.org and Columbia University can help make Ahmadinejad happy, I’m sure.
I’m sure if we just talk to Ahmadinejad, maybe invite to a baseball game, football game, tour Ground Zero (where Ahmadinejad can celebrate and have some great video for his people back home in Iran) wine and dine him in some nice NYC restaurants, we can make friends with him!
Maybe we will gain a better understanding of why Ahmadinejad keeps sending bombs to Iraq to blow up Americans and Iraqis, if we just talk to him.
Maybe we will gain a better understanding of why Ahmadinejad wants to make his own nukes (when he can just by them from Russia for a good price), and why he wants to blow Israel off the face of the Earth, if we just talk to him.
And if Moveon.org and Columbia University really want to make Ahmadinejad happy, then they will join him in denying the Holocaust.
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/jon/070922
America can’t afford George Soros or his MoveOn.org Democrats
Marie Jon’September 22, 2007
Soros appears to be a terrorist sympathizer as so many secular progressives are. One example is Columbia University. They would rather embrace terrorist leader President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad than the Minutemen, who were brutally attacked when trying to speak to the student body. So much for “free speech.”
Fact from the Internal Revenue Service: Soros’s foundation, the Open Society Institute, contributed $20,000 in September 2002 to the Lynne Stewart Defense Committee. (source ) Stewart was found guilty of giving aid to Islamic terrorists.
Is this a man that American citizens want tampering with our business? He definitely has too much to do with the Democrat Party, organizations and websites that are working against our country’s best interest.
Columbia University was once led by Dwight D. Eisenhower. It is easy to guess what Ike would have though of the fanatic who will grace the campus Monday unless the Trustees of that university come to their collective senses and instruct the president, Lee Bollinger, to rescind this outrageous invitation. Ike had experience with Holocaust deniers:
When General Eisenhower learned about [Buchenwald], he immediately arranged to meet Generals Bradley and Patton at Ohrdruf on the morning of April 12th. By that time, Buchenwald itself had been captured. Consequently, Ike decided to extend the group’s visit to include a tour of the Buchenwald extermination camp the next day. Eisenhower also ordered every American soldier in the area who was not on the front lines to visit Ohrdruf and Buchenwald. He wanted them to see for themselves what they were fighting against
http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/HughHewitt/2007/09/21/columbias_disgrace
Hey MAX,
Are you going to back up your claim about MoveOn’s “propaganda”?http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/09/open-thread-922.html#comment-83761857
Didn’t you do any research, BEFORE attacking them?
Clinton’s Heath Care Plan Now Gaining Favor by Auto Industry
WoW Go Figure!
The Government Would Step in And Save GM and the Union $50 BILLION!
TAXPAYERS PAY! YEAH!)
* GM and the UAW have been discussing a historic deal that would shift the automaker’s obligation for more than $50 billion of retiree health care to a trust fund aligned with the union. The UAW has also asked for assurances that GM will not shift more production outside the United States to lower-cost economies such as Mexico.
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2323804420070923
She (Hillary) continued for several more minutes, saying, among other things, that a consensus had developed, that the automobile industry is now in favor of a health-care overhaul and that her plan “builds on what works in America, but takes aim at what doesn’t and comes up with some very common-sense ways of trying to fix our problems.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/23/AR2007092301099.html
Oh I agree with you Cosmos, the Democrats did not come out and condemn MoveOn.orgs Ad.
(Why should they? They are on the same side, joined by Columbia University and Ahmadinejad)
Hey Max – is George Soros any worse than Rupert Murdoch? I don’t think so. Each of them has way too much money and too little sense. Pox on both their houses!
But when Republicans give up Murdoch then the Democrats can give up Soros.
From that article Max posted on GM workers.
“The average GM worker made $39.68 per hour in 2006 with benefits including health insurance representing another $33.58 per hour. U.S. automakers argue escalating health care costs amount to a labor cost disadvantage of almost $30 per hour on average against Japanese rivals led by Toyota Motor Corp.”
I don’t think any of the GM auto workers are suffering at 76K per year in salary.
Taking money out of politics ain’t gonna happen.
Dems and Repubs go to the highest bidder, and the average Joe Taxpayer ALWAYS gets screwed.
I’ll fight the side that is the biggest Socialist though. But if Hillary wins, raises taxes, increases spending with National Hillarycare, I might just join the ranks of unemployed.
If you can’t beat the Socialists, why not join them. And I can retire 20 years early!
Murdoch is a businessman, he doesn’t stick his finger into every political pie like Soros.
Soros funds idealogies, a big difference between him and Murdoch.
$76k, not bad for unskilled labor hugh Kansas?
Then people wonder why jobs keep getting lost due to outsourcing, and why American factories keep shutting down.
I wonder…
Hell, if we all be Socialists, nobody needs to work anymore anyway!
If you can’t beat the Socialists, why not join them. And I can retire 20 years early!
Posted by: Max | September 24, 2007 at 12:05 AM
Yeah Max, why bothering working when the Hildabeast will provide cradle to grave benefits. We can become just like France. :)
Say, where can I get a beret and a painter’s canvas, I might want to…
‘Oh I agree with you Cosmos, the Democrats did not come out and condemn MoveOn.orgs Ad.”
Posted by MAX
MAX seems unable to answer my simple and obvious question.
“Hey MAX,
Are you going to back up your claim about MoveOn’s “propaganda”?http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/09/open-thread-922.html#comment-83761857
Didn’t you do any research, BEFORE attacking them?”
Conclusion: The MoveOn ad was ACCURATE.
Rember though one thing:
If Hillary wins, we all get free healthcare, immediately retire (cause we can’t afford to live with the gov’t takin more than 1/2 of our working man’s income),and we MUST TURN IN OUR GUNS TOO!
Hillary will ban them.
It’s the only way she can completely control the people enough to turn America Purely Socialist.
We shall be:
The United Socialists States of America.
Currency will then say:
In Hillary We Trust
Pledge of Allegiance will be changed to read:
One nation, under Hillary, with HillaryCare and HillaryJustice for all.
Prove the MoveOn Ad was accurate Cosmos, or go blow it out your global warming ass.
Moveon dot barf is what’s wrong with the Democrapic party. Bunch of wannabes who use their political funding to skew views and spread propaganda while supporting terrorists actions over those of our own soldiers.
The ad on Petraeus was bilge water and deserves the sewer it came from.
“Prove the MoveOn Ad was accurate Cosmos, or go blow it out your global warming ass.”
Posted by: Max | September 24, 2007 at 12:14 AM
Does Max need glasses???
I already posted the points claiming that the MoveOn ad was accurate here.http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/09/open-thread-922.html#comment-83759363
And I repeated that post here,http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/09/open-thread-922.html#comment-83761857
If Max is UNABLE to defend his opinions, he should change them, instead of running away, and making personal attacks.
Calling someone a betrayer is indefensible, especially a General who has long and honorable service.
What move on dot scum deserves is a kick in their collective “nuts.”
Only scum would align themselves with an organization which make statements like that.
The word “betray” has multiple meanings.
Kansas will PROVE which of those multiple meanings MoveOn meant.
Kansas will then PROVE that General Petraeus’ statements were the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth! /sarcasm OFF
I don’t have to prove anything cosmos.
My opinion of move on dot scum’s statement stands.
And there is not a thing you can do about it. :)
OHHHHHHH KANSAS!
I hope you’re prepared to boycott Rush Limpballs.
Rush Limbaugh has called the MoveOn.org “General Petraeus or General Betray Us?” advertisement “contemptible” and “indecent,” but months earlier, on his radio show, he told his audience that he had a new name for Senator Chuck Hagel: “Senator Betrayus.”
Oh SNAP! I can’t wait to hear the backpeddaling. I wonder if it’ll be as good as when Kerry’s service was beaten like crazy.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200709220003
I don’t listen to Limbaugh, don’t like his show, never did.
(whoosh)
That was the sound of nothing by air rushing by your head PMom. :)
WELL……..
Good Night; Good Luck; and God Bless; whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings all!!
Kansas, I’m not going to check the math, but I can tell you that the state rainfall average is a meaningless figure when it comes to ethanol.
Figure how much rain falls west of Salina, ’cause that is where MOST of the ethanol plants are being built.
I’d have less problem if these plants were being built in EASTERN kansas, where the average rainfall can double what falls in western Kansas.
And in case I need to point out the obvious, the rivers run from west to east, when they run, which, out here, isnt very often. Both the Smoky and the Ark have long stretches of dry beds.
And southwest Kansas gets the least amount of rain, yet the corporatists want to build water sucking power plants and ethanol plants there, to supplement the already out of control irrigation.
Duh.
And doorking, if you think only western kansas kids will be paying the price… I have some farmland to sell that I’d like to talk with you about.
ALL of Kansas will pay the bill. All REMAINING kansans that is.
And where will they remain? You got it. The “cities” and eastern Kansas.
But please, continue to put your fingers in your ears and sing “lalalalala”. Or cover your eyes so we cant see you!
hehehehehehehheheeheheheheh…..
…and as for what Nebraska does?
Well, for one thing, if y’all wingnuts didnt keep our AG so busy worrying about Tiller and abortion..
Perhaps he could do something about our neighbors raping our water supply?
But really, the money quote in this link is that “governments dont matter”. Water is being divided up by corporations and corporatists. Both domestic and international issues are at stake. And the DLC and NAFTA have some ’splaining to do about the US taking Canada’s water.
Precident. We went to war over iraq’s oil that we think we deserve.
What do you think we will eventually do for water?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115×113852
KGrrl is right. I was appalled when I took a trip to Colorado and saw the Arkansas River roaring down like Niagra falls.
None of that water makes it to Great Bend. It’s sucked dry by gov’t subsidized factory farms in the indirect employ of huge multinationals.
The kind of farming going on in Western Kansas and all throughout the nation in fact is not sustainable and harmful in the extreme to the environment.