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Community thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Sept. 15, 2007 at 1:00 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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32 Comments
Headline in this morning’s Wichita EAGLE newspaper, ARENA TO COST $60 MILLION MORE THAN EXPECTED.
Did anyone expect anything different when anticipating the construction bids for this unneeded, unwanted white elephant downtown arena?
And wait until the construction change-orders begin rolling in increasing the cost even more.
Isn’t it strange only one general contractor would bid on this albatross arena, basically a bigger ice rink than the “Ice Sports” facility built six or seven years ago just east of downtown Wichita?
Just how many ice rinks does Wichita need when it has so many needs for improvements to bring Wichita into the 21st century?
Collapsing bridges, a dangerous drinking water situation, deteriorated Century II, an old 1930’s downtown that was fine in its time but is now a virtual ghost town above the first floors. And, of course, no money for the suburbs whose taxpayers are being asked to pay for this ugly glass and steel monstrosity arena.
As far as I can tell, less than ten unaffiliated ice hockey sports fans want this arena. But some 170,000 Sedgwick County taxpayers and voters now don’t want this future tax-sopping “relic by the railroad.”
OF COURSE, THE ARENA GOES ON BECAUSE THREE HOLDOVER SEDGWICK COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, TIM NORTON FROM HAYSVILLE, DAVE UNRUH AND TOM WINTERS ARE TOO STUBBORN TO ADMIT THE ARENA IS A HUGE FINANCIAL MISTAKE.
The time has come for Sedgwick County people to step up and demand that this misguided project be canceled. Then re-strategize Wichita’s capital improvements needs.
THIS FINANCIAL DISASTER IN THE MAKING IS DEFINITELY NOT THE ANSWER FOR WICHITA’S FUTURE WELL-BEING.
My suggestion for alternative spending the $300,000,000 that might eventually be spent by Sedgwick County and the City of Wichita for this white elephant downtown arena are:
1) Build a new Wichita convention center in the first block on the west side of the Arkansas River on the north side of Douglas in historic “west Wichita.”
2) Remodel Century II into a new downtown library and arts auditoriums.
3) Put a state of the art Bowling facility somewhere in the vicinity to capitalize on the world’s fastest growing participatory sport.
4) Immediately begin an ongoing bridge/overpass inspection program and budget $100 million to replace these deteriorating concrete structures.
5) Assist in replanning downtown Wichita’s essentially 1920’s downtown business district into a sparkling diamond of selective business activities.
6) Establish a program of improving the business districts of all the suburban communities in Sedgwick County who are being asked to pay for these improvements with the sales tax.
I’M RUNNING OUT OF TIME THIS MORNING BUT I THINK READERS AND WE BLOGGERS WILL COME UP WITH MANY MORE NEEDS FOR WICHITA AND SEDGWICK COUNTY.
What a bargain, only 78% more than advertised to the taxpayers for construction of the arena. But don’t worry by cutting out the parking improvements the overall cost will still be within the advertised price.
Does anyone have a guess where this is going? Barely started and already far over budget. Sounds like a better investment would have been beachfront property in Arizona.
Anyone note the article also on the front page about Jacksonville?I wonder how many of it’s citizens bitched about the white elephant of a football stadium for a non-existent NFL team which now has hosted a Super Bowl and a NFL franchise?
This is beginning to be fun, watching our predictions come true. When they belatedly admit that they will have to deal with parking and operating reserves how will they fund them?
It is interesting too that no corporation has come forward to buy naming rights. How about the “Albino Pachyderm”?
The article also states, “State law requires that if the cost of a voter-approved improvement comes in more than 20 percent above the pre-election forecast, the governing body — in this case the County Commission — has to give notice and hold a public hearing to explain the overrun.
…(County counsel Rich Euson said) he and his staff have analyzed the state law and believe it applies only to the project’s overall cost, not the construction cost.”
So county counsel has been taking lessons from those at the federal level on how to circumvent ANY law you want to! Cooking the books.
“This is beginning to be fun, watching our predictions come true.”Posted by: Ben
Fun? Ben, you apparently do not understand the situation.
There is no problem. We are on track. If we use a pasture in Butler County for parking and double the price of general admission for operations, we should be able to keep the cost within 20% of our $500 million estimate.
The only problem I see is keeping the taxpayer out of the loop until “…the process has gone too far to back out now.”
I seem to recall someone telling me this thing would be under budget and that everything will be fine. And someone else bragging about all his corporate connections and how they would jump on board …
bunch of assholes
I am sure this thing will be under budget. I am just not sure whose budget.
Another project the taxpayers will be paying the expenses of operating for years to come.
Maybe this is the thread to ask: where has Joe Williams gone?
When they belatedly admit that they will have to deal with parking and operating reserves how will they fund them?
I saw where one of the County Commissioners was considering asking the state to extend the sales tax past its current expiration date.
“I saw where one of the County Commissioners was considering asking the state to extend the sales tax past its current expiration date.”Posted by: ????
I think you answered you own question.
At the voting booth they should have had a large basket and a very large sign, “Empty you wallet here”.
One of Welshimers campaign items spoke some thing about giving the voters a chance to revote. The common reason for not has been is because the state won’t let us or we won’t get any of the tax money back to the county / city. Why not — seems simple enough, county says we want 200 million and we will build the training center, new jail, fix some schools — any thing on the coffers above what we need for the specicif projects the state can keep.
$60 million here, $60 million there, and pretty soon you’re talking about real money.
As pathetic as it is predictable. Once again, poor folks are made to pony up so the robber barons of Wichita can get their hands in the public till.
Since we had to vote to give them the money in the first place and they asked for a specific amount/time doesn’t it have to be voted on to increase it?
ksgrm,
Sadly, no. The measure stipulated an estimated cost, but also contained this disclaimer:
When it issued the $77 million construction estimate, the county included a caveat: “No assurances can be made that these projections will be accurate due to changing market conditions and other matters unknown or unavailable at this time.”
http://kansas.com/news/local/story/175697.html
Nice, huh? Sell the project with a low-ball estimate, and then when the ink is long since dry, VOILA! produce your real numbers.
Really sad. I hope people remember this in the next elections.
“…doesn’t it have to be voted on to increase it?”Posted by: ksgrm
No.K.S.A 12-6,122 (in part)(c) If at any time after an election is held authorizing the financing or making of an improvement and prior to the letting of contracts for such improvement, the governing body of the municipality determines that the cost of the improvement will exceed, by at least 20%, the amount of the projected cost stated in the notice of the election as required by subsection (b), the governing body shall not authorize the letting of contracts for such improvement until the governing body publishes a notice in a newspaper of general circulation within the municipality of the time, date and place of a public hearing before the governing body concerning the cost of the public improvement. At such hearing the governing body shall explain the basis for the variance in costs for the public improvement from projected costs published in accordance with subsection (b) and receive comments from the public thereon.
(d) After the hearing required by subsection (c), the governing body may:
(1) Authorize the letting of contracts for the completion of the public improvement;
(2) determine the project is not feasible and not let the contracts; or
(3) submit the question of making such improvement and the method of financing such project to the qualified electors of the municipality. Such election shall be called and held in the manner provided by the general bond law.
As you can see they can have a revote but it is only one of there possibilities. I am voting on option number 1.
I believe I would go for option 3
Where is the new news in this story. People acting like this is some new figure that just popped up! This has been known for well over a year now.
Project over all is only up 8%. Well below the 20%.
The contract bid for the arena actually came in under budget. So that is a good sign that no more overruns will likely happen, unless people like JWink tries to sabotage it. And trust me, they are planning it. It’s going to make the cost go up if they have to have round-the-clock security at the construction site, just to keep the kooks away.
Other than that! It’s funny that you people are bitching about the arena. It’s all good, you have every right to.
But you guys claim to be advocates of responsible government spending, yet none of you have spoke against nor saying nothing about the proposed $290 million dollar renovation of Century II. This is going to be without public vote. The downtown Arena is going to cost $137 million. But renovations of Century II at $290 million?
Then I hear crickets chirping from JWink and his Republicans cronies. And nothing from the Democrats either. It’s like everybody is accepting it.
$290 million folks! More than two downtown arenas.
Well! Just goes to show that the downtown arena isn’t about the cost issue. It’s a political football. We could be renovating the Kansas Coliseum, lets say for $200 million and nobody would bitch.
It’s just that the downtown arena went before a public vote, that what makes this political strain and controversy on it.
If it were just a bond issue with no public vote, hardly anybody would be bitching, even with cost overruns. I mean! There would be a few people, but not as angrily as people are with the downtown arena to the point that people want to go to extreme measures to stop it.
Lets say that they did stay within the original budget proposal. Would you guys still be bitching? Yes you would. Especially the JWink crowd. Because they voted against it in the first place and when things don’t go their way, they are out with a vengeance and intimidating people. Like he is doing now.
JWink and Co. won the Casino defeat and now is going after Legislatures that passed it in the State. That’s how these people operate. He’s the Karl Rove of the Kansas Republican Party.
Remember the School Bond vote. $285 million dollars! School board maxed out it’s LOB, and now are considering another School Bond issue. Now they are talking about a $400 million dollar bond issue, because the $285 Million wasn’t enough. And USD 259 hasn’t really increased in student population all that much.
This is from a guy, not only receiving 6-figure salary from us, the tax payers, but is also receiving subsidized salaries from area businesses. And nobody says a word. They think it’s ok for businesses to pay a public official money.
The downtown arena is least of your worries people. Go ahead and still kick it as a political football, just ignore the other grossly overrated costs to tax payers from elsewhere.
Good luck!
“The contract bid for the arena actually came in under budget.”
NOT TRUE Joe! It came in way above the construction budget (mis)represented to the voters when it was approved. Sure Joe!, you guys can play all sorts of ‘Enron’ accounting to obfuscate that but you cannot deny the 78% increase in construction costs.
The Commission is at least acknowledging that they are robbing other accounts to cover the cost overruns. That is how they are able to (temporarily) claim ‘only’ a 9% increase.
“sabotage it. And trust me, they are planning it. It’s going to make the cost go up if they have to have round-the-clock security at the construction site, just to keep the kooks away.”
Your paranoia is showing Joe! What are you claiming? That we will firebomb it? You are even more delusional than usual today!
I just arrived and find a whole flock of large colorful Monarch butterflies swarming my Kansas Sunflowers. Is it because most of my summer garden variety flowers are declining as we approach Autumn?
I noticed yesterday and today, the Sun seems to be falling and rising in almost a true east and west direction. This signals the Earth is approaching the Fall equinox on September 21st or so.
A few days later on September 26th, it will be interesting to observe the September FULL MOON. It should be nearly straight up from Wichita as it reaches its senith. But perhaps a little south of vertical to allow for the fact that Wichita’s latitude is about 38 degrees north of the equator and for the roughly three degrees the Moon tilts back and forth from its equator.
Reminds me, before someone asks, daylight savings time doesn’t affect the position of the Moon. It only shifts our time so there are less hours of sunlight on our clocks before noon than after noon. This year, 2007, daylight savings time ends early Sunday morning, first Sunday of November, on November 4th.
So majestic Monarch Butterflies, enjoy your temporary sojurn in Wichita, Kansas before continuing on south for a warmer carefree winter.
I noticed the Monarcs too today. Good to see them. And great weather – just a bit hotter than I prefer but still fairly comfortable.
Spring and fall are definitely the best times of year here in the heartland.
What? Is Joe Williams back to WE Blog? I thought he joined the U.S. Army to do his patriotic duty to our nation as so many people his age do. I guess I was wrong.
As de facto spokesman for Wichita Downtown Business Incorporated and the three holdover county commissioners, Winters, Unruh and Norton, I would expect nothing less from Joe Williams. Joe sidesteps the issue of Sedgwick County and Wichita City governments wasting some $360,000,000.23 in regressive sales taxs on an unwanted, unneeded white elephant ice hockey arena. I wonder how many Zamboni’s this nearly 1/2 billion dollars will buy?
Now Joe and his mentors at Downtown Business Incorporated accuse me and other patriotic, civic minded Wichita tax-paying citizens of “resorting to sabotage” of the proposed downtown albatross arena.
Ye Gads Joe Williams: “Have you no sense of decency?” About 53 years ago in 1954, the immortal Joseph Welch, the Army’s chief legal counsel bellowed this to the marauding Senator Joseph McCarthy to effectively destroy McCarthy’s lieing and fantasizing political career.
So, Joe, if this shoe fits you take a hint.
By the way Joe! If you have any evidence that anyone plans to ’sabatoge’ your arena you should call the cops. As for the casino vote – I would say that you should be asking yourself how you managed to turn 70% into 43%. Quite an accomplishment Joe!
Gee, haven’t heard from Mrage bragging about all those corporates he is going to get on board to make the Arena 18,000 seats. Or about how happy he is that the slots at the track got defeated since it is not downtown.
Ben,
I’m not participating in discussing the Arena any longer.
I tried to argue not only to corporate friends, but supporters elsewhere who defend the seating size. I can’t make any corp invest in the Arena. They have to find marketing value in it.
I don’t understand defense of the seating size at all. Not in this regional area. Arena too small for the next 25 years?
The project was hurt with the slowness of SMG being hired. What events will past by the Arena? The county never asked that question of themselves early enough.
Over considering some future March Madness game and not trying to engage KU to play one or two games a year downtown.
When the Big 12 announces 18,000 seat requirement, County doesn’t react. That event won’t ever be downtown either.
In the State of Kansas with two Big 12 teams, we can never hold the Big 12 mens and womens basketball tournament in Wichita. That doesn’t make sense to me.
It goes along with NO vote for the Casino thinking. They won’t have those things downtown.
How did Century II benefit without that possible development money? You seem to not get all bent out shape about spending more on Century II than the Arena costs.
Century II parking isn’t increasing either with that huge cost.
How do you figure Century II will be radically improved from what funds?
You argued for a worse idea, slots at the dog track where you never visited, that’s a great position to argue from.
“You argued for a worse idea, slots at the dog track where you never visited, that’s a great position to argue from.”
Since I would not visit slots anywhere what difference does it make? If there were something worth visiting I would go to the track for it.
I would have supported a casino if it were well thought out. The ‘pig in a poke’ the voters were offered was not. That is why it failed; coupled with the arrogance of the ‘everything must be in downtown’ crowd.
As for your arena – well, you had your chance.
And C-II? I DO want to see a good explanation of the proposed spending. It seems like an awful lot for renovations. That said, I think that includes all three locations – the ‘flying saucer’, the square convention hall, and the string of meeting rooms connecting to the Hyatt.
For the almost 600+ million they want to spend on C2 and the arena, they could build a much nicer combined facility that would seat 20,000+ people and do a host of other things that might bring people downtown or from out of town.
Very good point. One big problem we have here in Wichita is that we do not coordinate our needs. For example, several years ago when Levitt Arena needed overhaul would have been the time to address an Arena. A facility designed to house WSU and also other uses might have made sense. Locate it between WSU and downtown along the west side of the Canal Route. That is how it was done in other mid-sized communities – a joint venture between the community and the university.
Even with that opportunity missed a mixed-use facility might make sense. An Arena by itself will not be used all that much. However, if designed to also serve as a convention center it might make sense.
Finally, even the casino discussions were incomplete. Never did the voters see a real plan for what they were voting for. That is why it failed. Voters regret allowing the ‘pig-in-a-poke’ arena to pass; they were doubly cautious about the same promoter’s casino.