Can a leader of the free world do anything about the one-third of men who don’t stop at the sink on their way out of the restroom? Doubtful. But Hillary Clinton, reacting on ABC’s “Good Morning America” to the new American Society for Microbiology study on the handwashing gender gap, wasn’t above joking, “I’m still worried about all those men who don’t wash their hands. . . . That’s going to be part of my health care plan.”
Meanwhile, two guys reacted harshly to that plan, which she announced Monday: Mitt Romney called it “European-style socialized medicine,” and a Rudy Giuliani campaign statement suggested it was straight out of Michael Moore’s “Sicko.”
Posted by Rhonda Holman
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- Jed on Let immigrants run
- Regular on Open thread 11/23
- Regular on Open thread 11/23
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/23
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/23
- Freebird1971 on Open thread 11/23
- Freebird1971 on Open thread 11/23
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/23
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/23
- Freebird1971 on Open thread 11/23
95 Comments
Typical Republicans, they’ll criticize someone with a plan while they do nothing. Funny how so many other socialized programs work so well and are supported by the majority of the population. Let the ignorant posters who don’t know about the issue whine about the same false claims as they always do.
On health care I am as far left as I may ever get, in this country health care is one of a handful of things I see as should be a given. Never should someone have to forestall going to the Doctor, a hospital or have a needed medical procedure because of cost. Or to worry if once they had it done on trying to pay for it, to me it should be one of the very basic human rights and is the truest sign of a modern society.
If we can thrown hundreds of billions of dollars down a rat hole called Iraq, surely we afford basic health care services for our citizens at home!
What is the Republican program? As usual nothing! And the funny thing is that Rudy, as a mayor, never once proposed shutting down either Kings County or Queens County hospitals for a “free market solution” to medical care in New York City. But Rudy also was very agressive about grabbing citizen’s guns in NYC too. But now all the sudden he has changed his views. I wonder what brought that on?
Republicans have no plan, except stay the course, status quo.
No, their plan isn’t do nothing–it’s to continue to make policy to line the pockets of insurance and health care industries while individuals get screwed.
That’s the Republican way, and has been since Calvin Coolidge was in office.
Slick Willy only knew one way with women, and now they’re calling him a super hero. And, Hellary, she’s running on the same platform that Bill ran on. While Bill was in office, how many soldiers died from explosions on a ship, or in an embassy and Slick Willy did absolutely nothing? Yea, that’s some hero.
You know gum disease is a silent killer. It can cause heart disease if untreated. I don’t have dental insurance.
Will the new healthcare program provide dental ins. also? It is only fair. I can afford health ins. but being on a fixed income can’t swing the premiums for dental.
Hope Hillarycare will take care of this for me.
While Bill was in office, how many soldiers died from explosions on a ship, or in an embassy and Slick Willy did absolutely nothing?
Answer: 0
Jack–
You’re comparing the number of soldiers killed under Clinton to the number killed under Bush?
Keep voting RepubliCON, dude; it’s easier than thinking . . .
Typical Republicans, they’ll criticize someone with a plan while they do nothing. Funny how so many other socialized programs work so well and are supported by the majority of the population. Let the ignorant posters who don’t know about the issue whine about the same false claims as they always do.
Posted by: Doug |
People should be forced by govt mandate to wash their hands? I do but it is not the govts place to require me to do it. Will we go to jail if a bathroom cop sees we did not wash our hands? What if I only wash one? What if I dont wash it well enought? Only a fine? Why the hell do the Repubs need to come up with their own plan to force us to wash our hands. As an independent, I would vote against my candidate if they came up with such a ludicrous plan. With all the major problems like Social Security, Medicare bankruptcy in the not too distant future and other big issues like Iraq, she is worried about us not washing our hands. I agree with the handful of people here who believe both sets of candidates are not worth voting for. I wish Paul and Richardson would win, they at least look like reasonable choices out of the ratpacks.
RE: washing hands after using the bathroom
I don’t pee on my hands. Do you?
I don’t pee on my hands. Do you?
Posted by: CapnAmerica
No, whats your point? It removes germs whether you pee on your hands or not. Since you brought up the issue, are you sure you dont pee on your hands? Sounds like a guilt issue to me. The issue is should it be govt mandated. Doesnt she have bigger issues to worry about? I can think of several personal issues and numerous political ones. If you dont wash your hands and get sick, its your problem and not mine unless you catch something contagious and pass it on to me. Its not my place or the govts place to tell you to wash your hands.
Graffitti Troll-
I wasn’t talking to you. Thanking you in advance for not talking to me . . .
An other thing: urine is essentially sterile (except for picking up some germs from the urethra).
Human waste however is dangerous. Hep A comes to mind. A lot of countries like China fertilize with human waste, which is a main cause for dysentary-like disease.
You have no right to tell me not to talk to you. How many other people have told you the same thing and you ignored them. Dont like what I write walk on by.
Unlike you, I am not a graffiti troll. You are a troll and a flamer that enjoys trying to irritate other people but get upset when people do it back. You can dish it out but not take it.
You are as bad as the repicons you so despise. You are worse because you are in more denial than they are. May you enjoy the fruits of your pettiness, hatred, and intolerable life. If you are a typical Episcopalian it is no wonder the church is losing members. As your Bible teaches worry about the log in your own eye before trying to remove the splinter from someone elses eye.
An other thing: urine is essentially sterile (except for picking up some germs from the urethra).Posted by: CapnAmerica
Picking up germs from the uretha stops it from being sterile.
Are you for or against govt mandated handwashing? Does it matter a repicon candidate supports the issue or a demilib?
If it is so sterile, do you drink it if you are thirsty and dont have water nearby? You may want to do some more research on exactly how sterile it is before you make some wild comments.
“I’m still worried about all those men who don’t wash their hands. . . . That’s going to be part of my health care plan.”
It was a freakin joke. The hand washing thing is moot. It was a joke.
The issue here is socialized medicine.
After the Larry Craig story hit the news, is there any man out there that even goes into a public men’s room anymore?
Handwashing is and always has been the most useful germ fighting tool we humans have. There would be less colds and flu if people would just get in the habit of handwashing.
From some of the postings, I get the sense that men take being told to wash their hands as somehow denigrating their manhood. I’ve got three words for you – get over it.
maidmarion
I have no problem washing my hands and I do it everytime I go to the bathroom and even after preparing meats and other types of food for cooking. I know many women who do not wash their hands after going to the bathroom. The point is should the govt force people to? The govt cannot force people to bathe. If you have worked around some of my clients you may understand what I am talking about. Some of them have not bathed in six months to a year and we cannot require them to bathe. The stench from them is potent enough to almost peel paint off the walls. Some of my coworkers cant work around them so I have to. Do I think they should bathe? Yes even if I didnt work around them.
You folks don’t get it. Either that or you refuse to face the topic in front of you. Affraid your candidate can’t hold up. Pretty sad.
“I’m still worried about all those men who don’t wash their hands. . . . That’s going to be part of my health care plan.”
It was a freakin joke. The hand washing thing is moot. It was a joke.
The issue here is socialized medicine.
Posted by: SolDevVB | September 19, 2007 at 09:01 AM
Sad state of public education isn’t it?
What do we teach in public schools in health class, besides sex, birth control, and abortion, but not handwashing?
(The parents can’t be trusted to do this, so Government must take over.)
Graffitti troll writes that if gov’t forces people to wash their hands, it will be the end of freedom in America.
I remember in the early 60’s when it was perfectly legal to dispose of the fast-food wrappers by pitching them out of the window of a moving car.
The curbs of every major highway looked like a land-fill in the making.
Then Lady Bird Johnson started her “Keep America Beautiful” education program along with 50 dollar fines for littering.
The result is a much more attractive and liveable America.
Another example of big government destroying our freedom, right CONs?
Right Capn, Big Government should patrol the streets and arrest the garbage tossers, and those that don’t wash their hands too.
Could have the same cops already patrolling public toilets for sex crimes watch out for hand washing crimes too.
We need to pass a law for EVERYTHING, to make sure people do the right thing.
We can’t count on Parents or Public Education to teach kids to throw away garbage and wash their hands. We must have Big Government regulate everything.
I’m not saying that, Max.
I’m saying basically what you’re saying–educate people and they’ll do the right thing.
For instance, police aren’t spending a lot of time arresting those who litter. And yet litter is way down from what it used to be.
Thanks to a national campaign to educate people.
Are you sure washing your hands in a filthy public restroom actually has a net effect to kill more germs then what you pick up from the dirty faucets and door handle as you walk out?
(No! I will not disclose what I do in there! Women have a right to privacy to get an abortion, I should have the same right to privacy regarding what I do in the crapper!)
You people are freakin idiots. No one is talking about passing legislation to enforce hand washing.
But y’all are all up on your party’s bandwagon.
No freakin wonder this country is in such a mess. The voting public has been lobotomized.
“(No! I will not disclose what I do in there! Women have a right to privacy to get an abortion, I should have the same right to privacy regarding what I do in the crapper!)”Posted by: Max
Are you Tapdancing?
Graffitti troll writes that if gov’t forces people to wash their hands, it will be the end of freedom in America.
Capn, aka Graffiti Flamer, I never said it would be the end of freedom of America. Cant you read? Guess not. I am not a Con, but a Liberal, not a radilib like you. I think you radicons and radilibs have been most effective as destroying America.
And yet litter is way down from what it used to be.
Thanks to a national campaign to educate people.
Posted by: CapnAmerica
Have you been outside lately? Littering happens regularly. There is now a much bigger fine and people are still doing it. Some areas have less litter because some group or other has chosen to keep that area clean, not because people are littering less.
Capn I do agree education is the key. Education can make a big difference.
Sol maybe it was a joke but Senator Clinton is not known for having a great sense of humor. Based on her past record, I dont take anything she says as a joke. As a Democrat I trust her less than our next less trustworthy candidate. This primary season may turn out to be a circus if the DNC follows through with their threat to Florida and other states that violate its directives.
OMG, will you please stop!!! It was a JOKE. And as Sol pointed out, the cons have jumped on this weird bandwagon about handwashing because their candidates DO NOT HAVE A PLAN!!!
“Sol maybe it was a joke but Senator Clinton is not known for having a great sense of humor. Based on her past record, I dont take anything she says as a joke. As a Democrat I trust her less than our next less trustworthy candidate. “**********************************************
I watched the interview – at least I saw the end where she made the statement. In no way did she truly intend to enact any type of legislation. Check youtube and maybe you can see what I am talking about.
*********************************************
“This primary season may turn out to be a circus if the DNC follows through with their threat to Florida and other states that violate its directives.”*********************************************My Dad is a Lib in Florida. The DNC is trying to do the right thing and keep the state from leapfrogging in the primaries. They doled out a harsh punishment. Now that Floridians know that the DNC is for real, it is the GOP that is playing dirty ball. The governor has stated that he will veto any action trying to move the date back.
Now their votes don’t count. If you support that, try moving to a communist nation. They support your views as well.
Are you Tapdancing?
Posted by: hud | September 19, 2007 at 09:36 AM
No. And if someone waves at me from the other side, I’m not waving back!
I spent quite some time helping to fight an MRSA infection in a woman I took care of. It ended up killing her. At that time it was strictly a hospital infection, spread by nurses and other employees who didn’t wash up between patients. Handwashing shoudn’t need to be mandated by law; it’s simply common sense. Unfortunately it only takes one person who hasn’t got it to kill someone dear to you!
Hillary can talk about handwashing details, but can’t tell us specific costs for premiums for her Hillary Care plan!
How can she even estimate a cost of $110 Billion per Year, unless she can tell us what our premiums will be for this care?
THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS.
Sol what right does the DNC have to force a state to mess with states primary dates? Why is it the right thing to prevent Florida from leapfrogging its date? Each state should have the right to set its own primary date. I am one of many supporting one primary date for all. It sounds like you are the one wanting to move to a communist state because you support the DNC in this matter.
The people in Florida supported the earlier primary date and you want to overturn their decision because the DNC said so? Talk about communism. Its the DNC playing dirty ball. The DNC threatened the candidates who campaigned in the various states considering moving to earlier primary dates. The DNC should be able to override the will of the people in those states?
“I am one of many supporting one primary date for all.”*******************************************That leaves campaigning out. The point of this is for the candidates to visit the states so that the people can hear and decide for themselves. What you suggest leaves 90% to advertisement on TV or radio.
*******************************************
“The people in Florida supported the earlier primary date and you want to overturn their decision because the DNC said so?”*******************************************So do you also support candidates start the campaign/primary trail 2 years in advance of the election?
So do you also support candidates start the campaign/primary trail 2 years in advance of the election?
Posted by: SolDevVB
They almost do now. Its an apple and oranges issue. You are comparing what candidates do vs what states do. Both groups should have the right to determine the issue. If a candidate chooses to start campaigning two years out, go for it. The current slate of candidates have been campaigning in some cases for what will be almost two years out. Edwards started his campaign in Dec 2006, just under 2 years by election time. Clinton a month later started her formation of an election committee along with Romney. McCain a month after Clinton and Romney. Rudy about the same time frame. Looks like we have close to two years with the major candidates for both parties. Thompson, an unlikely candidate has been the slowest to announce.
That leaves campaigning out. The point of this is for the candidates to visit the states so that the people can hear and decide for themselves. What you suggest leaves 90% to advertisement on TV or radio.
Posted by: SolDevVB
I would be surprised if the candidates did not campaign. They may not hit all 50 states, but they would hit a lot more than the current ones. As to radio and TV ads, they are not as effective as people give them credit for. Internet is starting to have a bigger impact and it is much cheaper. In person may or may not be cheaper than TV and radio but it makes a bigger impact on the voters. Once the early primaries are decided, it snowballs because the early winners pick up fundraising opportunities and other states frequently view the early primary winners as foregone conclusions.
Do you support candidates campaigning two years out? If not, then you shouldnt vote for most of the current group on either side.
Case in point. Florida’s new date is one or two away from Michigan’s. As such, we most likely won’t see any candidates here.
So if we go with one date for everyone, then the candidates surely won’t waste time campaigning in ’smaller’ or ‘less important states’.
Get it?
Where did Hillary ever say she was going to enforce hand washing? It sounds more like she intends to promote behavior that will improve health but never said she’d force it. As usual Republicans have to resort to dishonesty. I guess they’ll start a list of people they claim the Clintons murdered or focus on subjects about blowjobs rather than accept the fact Republicans don’t have a health care plan.
And put the seat down. Man, do they ever love to bitch about that!
Say Doug, here’s the quote from above:
“I’m still worried about all those men who don’t wash their hands. . . . That’s going to be part of my health care plan.”
Can’t wait to see how she’s gonna enforce
A. Diet control to fight obesity and
B. Exercise to fight obesity
Heil Hillary will lead to complete Government control, I’m warning you guys now!
At least Hillary is proposing something. The rhetoric from the right is nothing more than spin. There should be a major overhaul of the health industry in this country. When we spend 17% of the GDP on health care, and rank 31st in world health, below Cuba, we got a problem.
When we spend 31% of our health costs on admin, while countries such as Canada spend only 17% by eliminating the providers, we got a problem.
What I’ve heard from the right is blasts against Hillary’s plan, but nothing constructive, as in a plan of their own.
If we could elimimate the middle man, we would save roughly 15% of health care costs right off the bat. That’s alot of money. If we could improve both inpatient and outpatient care, as well as promote a more healthy lifestyle, we could reduce health care costs tremendously. If you smoke, you pay a premium; if you drink excessively, you pay a premium.
There are solutions to the problem,but it takes people willing to both listen and suggest to make something work. I doubt the current collection of elected officials on the beltway have the intelligence to do that.
IT WAS A JOKE !!!!
”
Sawyer: “Senator Clinton, again, thanks for joining us this morning.”
Clinton: “Great to talk to you. And I’m still worried about all those men who don’t wash their hands, Diane.”
[Laughter]
Sawyer: “You’re going to put that on–”
Clinton: “That’s going to be part of my health care plan after hearing from you all.”
Sawyer: “Thanks again for being with us.”
”
http://newsbusters.org/node/15728/print
Actually I wish people would wash their hands more.
You know the scenario – you’re at someone’s house, they are cooking dinner – they go to the bathroom – you hear a flush and the door swings open.
You’re thinking, “what the… they take a dump and don’t even have the courtesy to wash their hands afterwards and they’re cooking food that they want me to eat?”
I’m much more cautious than I used to be. I’m pretty sure I caught a roto virus from a shopping cart last year. I was sick for 10 days. Now, I’m more cautious – I use those wipes they have at supermarkets to clean the handles of shopping carts and wash my hands when I get home before I put away groceries.
Probably one of the few things I agree with that “Her Royal Thighness” has said.
Stumper, I’d be all for some health care solutions, maybe even spending some Federal money, AFTER we solve the Social Security/Medicare fiscal crisis and balance the budget.
This country cannot afford national healthcare today. It will bankrupt America sending us into The Greatest Depression, if we add one more Socialist Program without FIXING the ones we have now that are going bust in a big way very soon.
Max, I’m perfectly aware of what you said but where’s the claim that she’s going to enforce hand washing? The government has programs to encourage exercise, good health, etc. but fat people aren’t being put in jail. I just wish you neo-cons could actually look at what she said rather than creating some absurd conspiracy theories.
(No! I will not disclose what I do in there! Women have a right to privacy to get an abortion, I should have the same right to privacy regarding what I do in the crapper!)
Posted by: Max
Gee is your hubby tired of your know it all bullshit yet?
There’s a commie behind every tree.
Max, I’m perfectly aware of what you said but where’s the claim that she’s going to enforce hand washing? The government has programs to encourage exercise, good health, etc. but fat people aren’t being put in jail. I just wish you neo-cons could actually look at what she said rather than creating some absurd conspiracy theories.
Posted by: Doug | September 19, 2007 at 01:03 PM
Doug, read Hillary’s 2 Health Care proposals (I put the links on the blog somewhere yesterday) and tell me how she is going to implement her proposals without mandating and enforcing diet and exercise programs.
I could give a rip about her handwashing idea.
I’m more concerned with how Hillary calculated an annual cost of Hillarycare to be $110 Billion, when she can’t tell us specifics on how much premiums will be!
How do you calculate a budget of $110 Billion without knowing 1)The premiums charged and 2)The planned expenses?
She either made it up and pulled the number out of her a** or she’s hiding the numbers for some reason.
Kansas Druid, as a Liberal Socialist Democrat, you should be very afraid of the fate of your party.
See my 12:39 post on the Open Thread.
And Druid, when you have nothing intelligent to say, just keep up with the personal attacks. It really flatters your intelligence level.
I’m reminded by an experience in Manhattan, Aggieville bar, mid 80’s.
Ladies lined a small hallway quietly for their individual turns in the their bathroom.
Guys on the other side of this hallway, doing the same thing.
No one talked generally in this hallway. So guys weren’t checking out the ladies in the line for the bathroom. They weren’t eager to discuss much with guys in the line for the bathroom.
The bar music is loud just outside the hallway. People leaving the bathrooms have to squeeze through both lines of men and ladies along the wall.
This bar for some reason disallowed people to temporarily leave without paying another cover charge. Burger King across the street probably previously got many from the bar to use their bathrooms.
Some might try another bar, just to use their bathrooms, in Aggieville. There was always the parking lots with bushes on the backside of the property.
Maybe too many were using the parking lot, health concerns, is why they wouldn’t allow people to temporarily leave anymore.
Anyway, it seemed like the ladies bathroom was calm, when their door opened and shut.
When my turn came to enther the guy’s bathroom, I saw Armageddon happening.
Two guys were perched on the sinks. Counter with a couple of sinks to urinate in. Where could anyone wash their hands?
Some were just doing on the floor between other guys using urinals. One urinal was overflowing with water for some reason.
I have no idea what was happening in the stalls.
It was a brutal scene to witness, guys out of control in the bathroom and it was a mess.
I turned a left my spot in the line, made my way down the hallway with women and guys lined on each side. Odd looks on faces I made eye contact with. I fled that bar and actually just drove home to use the bathroom. Five minute drive. I wasn’t in a needful to go, replaying what happened in my head.
I vowed never to stay late in that bar when the bathroom lines got long.
The bar eventually let people leave temporarily again, because it was too much a mess in the guys bathroom trying to keep everyone inside. Maybe the ladies kept their bathroom functioning properly.
I was in bar near Benedictine College in Atchinson. Winter time too. Snow on the ground outside.
Visiting friend for that day, went into their best bar. Since it was warmer inside and the bar wasn’t heated, snow tracked in melted and puddles formed. The bar floor was wet and got colder.
I wasn’t feeling cold talking to people. But went into the bathroom, my body temperature had to be a little lower because of my feet getting wet in the bar.
I really had to go, but couldn’t at all! Talk about frustrating to point of panic. Bladder felt like it was going to burst. I stamped my feet, tried not to be in desperate straights with other guys in the bathroom.
Were my teeth chattering a little, maybe. Wet socks inside soaked shoes. Colder in the bathroom with less bodies than inside the bar.
I stood there in distress for ten minutes at least, unable to go.
Somehow it finally happened, slowly too. In agony for it to end. Don’t think I finished, just eased some of the pressure.
I had to flee that bar, get out of the water. But some girl wanted to hold me up to continue our talk.She was from Kstate too and we exchanged info to see other later.
I bolted outside, the bar door was open , fled to sunlight. I had to stand in the winter sun, to feel warmer on dry land.
I didn’t wash my hands after that traumatic event, remembering.
Actually single people should be the most concerned about the Hildabeast’s Health Care Plan as her plan would force those who don’t have health care insurance to buy a plan if they can afford it. That’s right, force.
Being as single people are a very large group in the U.S., they would be subsidizing the Hildabeast’s plan for the slobs who are the leeches of society.
Most single persons do not get health care insurance as they play the I’m not sick, why do I need it game.
The plan would also “FORCE” companies to subsidize large companies to provide health care plans to their employees.
Mandates by the Hildabeast, shades of forced government without the voice of the people being heard.
“She either made it up and pulled the number out of her a** or she’s hiding the numbers for some reason.”Posted by: Max
Max where are you getting the $110 Billion number? In her press release, she arrives at a “Total Savings/Reinvestment” number of $110B, but I cannot tell that is her guess at cost even if she calls it “Balanced Financing for Health Reform”.
Mandates by the Hildabeast, shades of forced government without the voice of the people being heard.
Posted by: Kansas | September 19, 2007 at 02:05 PM
Government Control of the People is what Hillary is all about.
As proof of this, watch for her very early in 2009 to push for a Handgun Ban as part of a bill with a glorious name, something like: American Protection Act.
At the very least, she will call for renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban (which had nothing to do with Assault Weapons) AND mandatory gun registration.
Hillary cannot control the People until she disarms us first.
Hud, here’s the reported cost of HillaryCare. If she can calculate the cost – SHOW US THE MATH!
Clinton unveils health care plan in Iowa By John Whitesides, Political Correspondent
Mon Sep 17, 2:54 PM ETWASHINGTON (Reuters) – Democratic presidential contender Hillary Clinton, whose first attempt at a health care overhaul fell flat 13 years ago, unveiled a broad proposal on Monday to require health insurance for all Americans and make it more affordable.
Clinton’s advisers said the plan would cost about $110 billion a year, paid for through a combination of cost savings and the expiration of some of President George W. Bush’s tax cuts for the most wealthy.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070917/pl_nm/usa_politics_health_dc
Here’s Hillary’s latest plan:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/
Note there are Premium Costs in Addition to $110 Billion in Additional Government costs!
What’s the TOTAL COST?
According to her own web site, there are 2 other plans.
Here’s 1, I can’t find the other.
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/files/pdf/healthcarecosts.pdf
There are ADDITIONAL COSTS in this May 2007 Plan that are not itemized and are IN ADDITION TO her costs in this September 2007 Plan.
(Note the starving of elderly to reduce the number of fat people, and the mandatory exercise provisions.)
Okay, so she pulled a number out and is saying here is how I am paying for it.
Which brings up the question, if she starts this program at the first of her term (??) how long will it take for her the $4B in savings from “Constrain Precscription Drug Cost”? Or the $35B from “Modernize Health Systems”?
Appears she is planning on paying for this program by betting on the “Come”.
Hud,
THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS.
I encourage all to read Hillary’s 2 plans (someone find the 3rd plan please!) above.
When reading the plans, ask your self How each item will be:
ImplementedPaid ForEnforced
Ask yourself what is the Cost of each Item.
Also ask what are the Impacts of each item in her plan.
For example, controlling Drug Costs. What is the economic impact of price controls on any product?
Answer: Shortages.
Drug companies will have less money for R & D, there will be no more new drugs, and many drug companies will go bankrupt. Then we can get all of our drugs from China, just like we get everything else from China.
As usual, Max and whatever can only denigrate. No thought to a plan, no plan, and no plan to have a plan. Your republican party at its finest. Stay the course, neo’s, your political lives are at stake.
Stumper, as usual, you can’t defend your Liberal Socialist Democrat views AND you can’t read.
See post below.
Oh, and ask yourself, if this HillaryCare plan is so Great, why didn’t she introduce it as a Senator sometime in say, the last 7 years?
—————————–Stumper, I’d be all for some health care solutions, maybe even spending some Federal money, AFTER we solve the Social Security/Medicare fiscal crisis and balance the budget.
This country cannot afford national healthcare today. It will bankrupt America sending us into The Greatest Depression, if we add one more Socialist Program without FIXING the ones we have now that are going bust in a big way very soon.
Posted by: Max | September 19, 2007 at 12:51 PM
News Update
In a 5-4 decision the Supreme Court reversed the conviction of Sen. Craig for criminal solicitation. The majority ruled the failure by arresting officers to allow Sen. Craig to wash his hands forced the defendant into a jeopardy position to face additional criminal charges which he could not avoid. They stated that failure by prosecutors to charge said offense(s) is insufficient basis to provide relief from this jeopardy. They further admonished arresting officers for their failure to include the fundamental right to “wash hands before leaving” as part of the required Miranda warning.
In a minority opinion it was disagreed in that the decision not to file additional charge(s) did in fact absolve the jeopardy citing the “no charge no crime” position frequently used in allegations involving politicians. They further argued permitting a suspect to wash hands in such cases unfairly hinders the prosecutions ability to gather forensic evidence comparing this the removal of gunshot residue.
I’ll be damned if my tax dollars go to footing the bill for the health care of third world scum, obese welfare spongers and fools who won’t exercise and insist on eating at Burger King and KFc day in and day out!
JOIN THE GNOSTIC LIBERATION FRONT TODAY!!
WE SEEK ARCANE AND ESOTERIC KNOWLEDGE!!!
Max,Evidently, you didn’t read my post. I never said I agreed with Hillary’s plan. I said at least she proposed one. You have offered nothing but look at it at some future date. O, ya, you said “AFTER we solve the Social Security/Medicare fiscal crisis and balance the budget.”
So, if they both are in crisis, then, in my opinion, solving the health care problem, which I consider more serious, then solving them would go a long way towwards solving health care. Something the Democrats have been trying to do for the last ten years, but have been stymied at every turn by bought and paid for Republicans.
Your interpretation of events if government health care plans are put in place don’t hold water. The scare tactic is nothing more than a smoke screen, just as the disgusting “cut and run” slogan was. Your party offers nothing in the way of bringing this country into an era where nobody is without basic health care, and the level of health care is brought up to a level where we are at least in the top ten countries in terms of quality of care, versus the 31st position we hold now, which ranks lower than Cuba. Yep, you got a lot to offer.
But back to Hillary’s plan: a plan is put forth, it is looked at, merits, if any considered; torn apart and rebuilt, by both parties, and if a consensus is reached, voted on by both house and senate. Gee. . . the American way.
But the vainglorious right wing, the party that knows all, sees all, and still can’t find its own ass with both hands, can only belittle something they have no clue to. Keep it up, you’ll find yourselves crying about how business doesn’t control government anymore, and I will be smiling away.
God I hope we elect Hillary. I can’t wait to hear the moaning and groaning of the small-minded right. And yes, I will gloat, and love doing it.
O, and Max, I am as far from a socialist as one can get. But not so far as to turn into a “peace loving, war mongering” republican. Save your labels for those that need them. Anybody can spout them (see above).
Social Security/Medicare already exists as a failed government program, so this must be fixed or it will fix itself when it goes broke some time before 2020.
Socialists want to add Hillary’s Healthcare, ANOTHER Government program with UNSTATED total cost.
We need to solve this existing Government problem first.
Democrats SAY they want to pay as you go, but they sure are not acting like it yet.
You have to admit she is covering all the bases with her Health Care Plan.
Clinton Health Plan Will Provide Quality Health Care and Coverage for All African Americans
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3355
CLINTON HEALTH PLAN WILL PROVIDE QUALITY HEALTH CARE AND COVERAGE FOR MILLIONS OF HISPANICS
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3371
Clinton Campaign Announces “Iowa Impact Report” of Hillary’s New Health Care Plan
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3370
So Hud, if you are not from Iowa, if you are not Hispanic, if you are not African American are you covered?
Do you not count?
Or is everyone else INVISIBLE?
What about Illegal Immigrants? They get coverage too?
Any reasonable person reading these health ‘plans’ has to see the glaring flaws. The overhead to administer it alone would be greater than her budget. Then when you add the cost of the small salaries to the doctors who will continue to take public patients and the cost of existing drugs without any R&D, we go right over the top.
I personally believe no plan is better than this plan. Will we as a nation never learn? We can’t be everything for everybody. We can’t force people to be responsibile if they are hell bent on being irresponsible. What happens when a person fails to sign up for a plan and has a medical emergency down the road? Do we just stack these sad sacks up outside the door and call for the meat wagon?
Wake up! She has with a few pages outlined a doomed program and we have people on here lauding it as a ‘plan’. She will totally destroy the drug industry and research for new cures. Make affordable healt insurance for those of us who would like to keep it out of sight. Not to mention the unfunded mandates for companies looking to hire new employees.
Actually I think the hand washing was a better idea. At least it might make a difference. Maybe a scanner at the door with ultra violet rays to check for contaminents. Of course we might have to increase the number of squares for each person. Cheryl and Al won’t be happy about that.
ksgrm, it amazes me that people fall for her plan either without reading it, or without fully understanding it.
BTW, KSgrm I’m curious if you’ve ever read The Forgotten Man. I posted a link on the open thread.
Probably one of the few things I agree with that “Her Royal Thighness” has said.
Posted by: Kansas
First of all, Hillary Clinton was not the first one to say this statement about hand washing.
Second, I thought you Republicans were so kind hearted, never called others names and are so offedned when you perceive Democrats calling you names? If so, then why the name Her Royal Thighness?
“Second, I thought you Republicans were so kind hearted, never called others names…”
You thought wrong, dope.
This plan could kill her chances.The 18+ kids don’t want it.
Batter up!
“Any reasonable person reading these health ‘plans’ has to see the glaring flaws.”Posted by: ksgrm
Actually at this point, it is not a plan, more of a plan to get a plan.
As I understand it, to keep it from being 1200 pages long and confusing people like she did last time, she came up with an idea and is going to let Congress work up the details.
Now when it come to paying for the plan to me there appears to be a timing difference between the start of paying and the returns she shows.
Increasing taxes can happen rather quickly but Prescription Drug Cost savings and the Modernizing of the Health System savings could take a while.
But, I guess, what I really do not understand is how she can say it will cost $110B and not know what Congress is going to come up with.
Hud you are right; it is a snow job meant to take the light off her campaign finance woes. Bill used this type of tactic quiet often and she learned well.
No way will this ‘plan’ only cost $110B unless we strip the guts out of our current health plan and give everybody 2 checkups a year, maintenance meds and a promise to do better next year.
When will the press start asking this lady the hard questions? She has been given a pass so long she looks at it as an entitlement.
Max I haven’t read that book. Where did you post about it? Maybe a time. I am getting ready to travel and read lots of books while on the road.
Who is proposing that the government is going to have the handwashing police out in force?
Really, people, get over yourselves. Handwashing is a basic hygiene that is somehow seen as nothing important now just because Hillary Clinton mentioned it?
No wonder PT Barnum made a fortune – there really is a sucker born every minute.
Ksgrm – do you think Hillary Clinton is the only candidate with questionable campaign finances?
let’s check into Rudy Guliani, Mitt Romney, John McCain and Fred Thompson. Let’s look at every penny from every donor, large and small, and I’m sure we could find something wrong somewhere.
“Handwashing is a basic hygiene that is somehow seen as nothing important now just because Hillary Clinton mentioned it?”Posted by: maidmarion
Yes, it was just a joke. And I have not mentioned all day but…
How about if she had said,I’m still worried about all those blacks who don’t wash their hands…
Would it still be funny?
How about Muslim or gay. Still funny?
Funny about the standards we seem to set for ourselves.
Apparently, Hud hath no humor, kinda like the real HUD:-)
kinda like the real HUDPosted by: J M Walker
Yes.
Hud
“But, I guess, what I really do not understand is how she can say it will cost $110B and not know what Congress is going to come up with.”
I gotta problem here: If it’s not really a plan, but a plan to have a plan (which I think stumper said something about in an earlier post), then just how does one interpret the 110b figure as rock solid? Gee, ya think it was a number thrown out as a starting point for the plan for the plan? She might just as well have said $0.50. Right now it’s air money, i.e., doesn’t mean a thing. No new taxes to pay for it, no business meltdown, no republican suicides, as they throw themselves, gnashing and wailing, off the nearest curb. No starving children, caused by the massive non-tax increase.
Nope, just a plan to formulate a plan, with a starting point. Take some ‘ludes and chill; the best is yet to come!
“kinda like the real HUDPosted by: J M Walker
Yes.”
You don’t mean “homo under development”, do you:-)
Ksgrm – do you think Hillary Clinton is the only candidate with questionable campaign finances?
let’s check into Rudy Guliani, Mitt Romney, John McCain and Fred Thompson. Let’s look at every penny from every donor, large and small, and I’m sure we could find something wrong somewhere.
Posted by: maidmarion
Theres a difference between small questionable donors and almost 1 million from one source. I think all candidates need to have their books audited to see if any others have similar issues. If so, all of those candidates, Democratic and Republican need to be taken to task.
DINO and proud of it wrote: “I know plenty of former Democrats who went independent because we are not following the Democratic ideals our party was founded on . . .”
Just out of curiosity, what would those ideals be–that you believe Dems have sold out?
The reason I ask is because I don’t think you’re a Democratic voter, now or ever.
The reason I ask is because I don’t think you’re a Democratic voter, now or ever.
Posted by: CapnAmerica
Flame Troll King, you are wrong. Guess you can read minds now, eh? I vote for the person and not the party. Only an idiot votes straight ticket, whether that idiot is Democrat or Republican doesnt matter. I vote for Democrats at least 70% of the time, Republicans about 5 – 10% of the time, and third parties the rest. Maybe that doesnt make me Democratic enough for you. I prefer Democrats when possible, but sometimes we have lousy candidates.
I supported Jimmy Carter when most Democrats were jumping ship on him like you wouldnt believe. He made mistakes, but we all do.
How do we know you vote Democrat? Just because you are a big blowhard who talks crap and treats people like dirt? Did you learn that in church?
The Dems have no ideals Capn.
Nuthin to sell out on.
Max I haven’t read that book. Where did you post about it? Maybe a time. I am getting ready to travel and read lots of books while on the road.
Posted by: ksgrm | September 19, 2007 at 06:43 PM
KSgrm – This is a Must Read for any conservative. (Libs won’t comprehend it)
Actually, it’s reading level is probably post grad level, though it was written in the 1800’s. (Says much about our education system today)
Here’s the link, not quite 3 pages if you print it out and read it on your vacation. Have a good trip, by the way. Not often working people get to have some fun!
http://www.blupete.com/Literature/Essays/Best/SumnerForgotten.htm
(I posted this on the Open Thread today)
Did none of you get her joke?
Thanks Max.
Maidmarion:
Ksgrm – do you think Hillary Clinton is the only candidate with questionable campaign finances?
let’s check into Rudy Guliani, Mitt Romney, John McCain and Fred Thompson. Let’s look at every penny from every donor, large and small, and I’m sure we could find something wrong somewhere.
Posted by: maidmarion | September 19, 2007 at 06:47 PM
If one of their names were in the headlines with questionable donations don’t for one minute pretend that the dems wouldn’t be on them like white on rice.
You really do have a sense of humor don’t you? Now you just need to get a grip on reality.
Poster boy she wouldn’t make it as the last comic standing. She is so ’smart’ you know – it probably just went over everyone’s head.
“”You can always tell when the Republicans are getting restless, because the Vice President’s motorcade pulls into the Capitol, and Darth Vader emerges,” Clinton said just now at Town Hall in New York, referring to Cheney’s efforts shore up Republican congressional support for the Iraq war.”
Hillary is just full of them today isn’t she. Maybe she is missing her calling and really should be doing standup.
Nobodhy got the joke… And here I thought this might be a good thread today… but we still got somebody spazzing over where somebody else goes to Church!! Geez….
Cheney needs to go back to his undisclosed bunker, and stay there… Saddam Hussein’s WMD might be on their way to attack him any minute now… ROFL!!
No, they just don’t get it do they?
Well, anyway good spazmozizem anyway!