Federal prisons, including Leavenworth, had from January until June to remove from their chapel libraries books as seemingly benign as C.S. Lewis’ “The Chronicles of Narnia” and Charles Schuller’s “Living Positively One Day at a Time,” on the premise that library materials should be “free of discrimination, disparagement, advocacy of violence and religious radicalization.” The purge resulted from a 2004 report by the Office of the Inspector General in the Justice Department that recommended that prisons take steps to avoid becoming recruiting grounds for militant Islamic and other religious groups, the New York Times reported. As a result, all books not included on an approved list were removed.
Prisoners are denied some rights, but they shouldn’t be denied the right to read materials of a spiritual nature. Not surprisingly, a Christian and Orthodox Jew at a New York prison have sued. As Pat Nolan, president of Justice Fellowship, in Lansdowne, Va., told the Topeka Capital-Journal, “The problem is the government is situating itself as the sanctioner of what is a proper religious book for prisoners.”
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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56 Comments
What about C.S. Lewis “Screwtape Letters”? Is that barred from prison libraries?
I believe that would be a book by ROBERT Shuller, not Charles Shuller… might note that Rhonda
If these guys are SO religous why are they in prison?
Does this mean that Tom Etheredge and Terry Fox would have to serve time under a gag order?
a large number of criminals consider themselves religious.
if you don’t agree with them they will happily kill you and your family.
ask bush.
alberto’s department of justice is behind this.
what a surprise.
it’s always ok to burn religious books…unless it’s your religion that’s getting burned.
right??
Prisons are government institutions and being such no religious material should be allowed in them at all. We don’t need anymore religious nutcases in the country.
“”"If these guys are SO religous why are they in prison?”"”
You know it is funny how they always “find Jesus” AFTER they are in trouble. They never seem to find him BEFORE they get in trouble!
“Bomb-Making in 5 easy steps” or “50 ways to disarm a security system” should be banned reading materials, not C.S. Lewis. This is just government censorship which will have no discernible boundaries as to what is on the censored list, and what isn’t.
The vast majority of criminals in prison consider themselves Democrats.
LOL that could be true Joe, but then Bush&Co seem to be fight to increase the Republicans in prisons.
Well! We will see how many Hsu takes down.
Or the Democrat machine will sweep it all under the rug. And that rug isn’t flat!
On the face of it C.S. Lewis’ “The Chronicles of Narnia” is a wonderful tale. But yes the premise of it could be taken as a call for Christian war. It being based on the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve fighting the evil of a world gone mad. Though a stretch, extremism need very little justification to take action.
“”"The vast majority of criminals in prison consider themselves Democrats.”"”
Has anybody did a study to find out how many of these people were actual registered VOTERS before they ended up in prison? I doubt very many. They are not Democrats and not Repukes. They are just slimeballs and scum.
I know that when you go to prison you lose many of you fundamental rights. I was not aware that the 1st amendment was one of them.
As a military prison, Leavenworth is a different issue.
How is Leavenworth a “different issue” when it comes to rights?
When you enter the military you cede some of the rights you enjoy. For instance, freedom of expression is one of them. Therefore the government may be empowered to censor the religious books in the military library.
These restrictions are aimed at the Whites in prison who pratice Asatru and it is unconstitutional!
While Ásatrú is generally a tolerant religion, it is sometimes erroneously identified with neo-Nazi and “white power” organizations which also use the same symbolism.[10] The three largest American Ásatrú organizations have specifically denounced any association with racist groups.[11][12][13] Despite these official public-facing positions, many of the larger organizations do harbor a racist element, and racist members of these groups create difficult internal political situations for non-racists to the degree that most non-racists end up preferring smaller groups of trusted kindred members or solitary family practice. The dividing issue is whether a person is “Folkish”, meaning that an emphasis on ancestry and ancestor worship is a part of their belief system which can eclipse actual worship of the Gods. Many neonazis use the “Folkish” belief system as an excuse to incorporate racism into the belief system. “Folkish” people and groups will exclude or discriminate against non-Folkish practitioners, who are often labelled “Universalists”. For example, the Ring of Troth will not grant clergy status to anyone who has not written a statement formally accepting the Folkish belief system, due to the large number of Folkish practitioners who hold power in that organization. Practitioners who do not adopt those beliefs are also harassed, frequently until they leave the clergy program and/or the group proper. The Ásatrú Folk Assembly lists “Ancestry is better than universalism” as one of the Nine Noble Virtues. You have to watch the spin of those who try to say Folkish groups are racist and discriminate though as many Folkish Practitioners aren’t racists and do not discriminate. Another concept which can also sometimes be abused is “Tribalism”, an emphasis on the group over the individual. Though when seen through unbiased eyes Ásatrú apears to be less monothiestic and supremacist. Which means Ásatrúers are perhaps more open minded to other religions/Gods and are less likely to discriminate against them.
There is nevertheless a significant number of self-described adherents of Ásatrú or Odinism who hold politically incorrect, racist, or white power ideologies. Odinism is particularly suspect because these practitioners emphasize the worship of Odin over the other Aesir and Vanir. Their worship often emphasizes the violent war and death aspects of the deity which appeal to white supremacists. Quoting Mattias Gardell [8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81satr%C3%BA
Please show me that revocation of rights in writing from a credible source.
The vast majority of criminals in prison consider themselves Democrats.Posted by: Joe Williams | September 23, 2007 at 07:53 AM
Joe,You’re being incredibly stupid this morning, even for you. Would you like to provide a link to back up your assertion, or will you be content with admitting that you’re a total retard?
“Please show me that revocation of rights in writing from a credible source.”
Apophis, have some coffee dude.
What rights you don’t you lose would be a much smaller list. You lose the right to free assembly, the right to job opportunity, the right of freedom of expression, the right of freedom from unreasonable searches… etc.. etc… etc…
I’m not one for coffee, I prefer tea.
Anyway, put up or shut up. WHERE is it written in LAW that one gives up the rights you claim when they join the military?
Joe is right. Most people behind are minorities and most minorities vote for dems. Dems reward criminals and welfare spongers in exchange for their votes. That’s why the dems want to extend the franchise to wetbacks and felons.
Heck, hillary would off Bin Laden amnesty in exchange for a big donation and/or his promise to deliver the muslim vote for her. hehehehehehe
Kansas Druid–
Does it hurt to be as stupid as you?
Just wondering.
Sorry Apophis. This thread is about prison censorship and since others were talking about the rights lost in prison, I thought…
Anyway, I was wondered why you were seemingly so dense this am. My bad.
“I was wondered”……………and you call me dense.
Get a life.
Capn…………reichwing stupidity is on the rise this morning. It must be due to their emperor’s stupid comments this week.
Prisoners do not have any rights and should not have any rights other than food, water and basic medical/dental care. When you commit crimes, you lose your privledges. If it were up to me there would be no books and no radios or TV sets in prison. They would be locked up 23 hours a day and allowed in run the yard and shower 1 hour a day. There would be no phones, no mail and no visitors. In other words prison would not be a place you would ever want to see again.
Apophis, I didn’t call you dense. Reread. Or can you not discern between past and present tense?
Jeesh, you try to nice to someone and apologize for THEIR lack of clarity and see what it gets you.
I’m not sure that Carnegie’s principles apply to liberals and stupid people, especially educators.
Kev, if it were up to me, I’d put the criminals to work! Make them repay their debt to society by doing something useful instead of wasting space in a cell. Bring back chain gangs or something :)No TV, no internet. Books would be allowed (even religious ones!) if they’re good.
However, if my prison system was that harsh, I probably would reserve it for real criminals rather than nonviolent drug offenders or the like.
Anyway, I was wondered why you were seemingly so dense this am. My bad.
Posted by: outlander
Outlander, I was wondering why were seemingly such a Satan-worshipping, child-molesting cabron this morning.
Please note that according to outlander’s own criteria, I DID not actually call him a Satan-worshipping, child-molesting cabron . . .
So, I’m sure you won’t mind what I said, will you, outlander?
Strangely enough, that is true. Capn, although stretched to a ridiculous degree. My comment was in good humor. Your’s, well you were just being the assh*le that you usually are.
Apophis,I don’t know if this will help or not, but here’s a link to the UCMJ:http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm#802.%20ART.%202.%20PERSONS%20SUBJECT%20TO%20THIS%20CHAPTER
Having done time in the military, I can assure you that “constitutional rights” don’t work the same as for civilians.
“MY” lack of clarity, outlander?
Here’s an idea, don’t attempt to converse with me. WE agree on nothing.
Exactly! Where do you think the term G.I.Joe came from? The G.I. stands for government issue. Which is what an enlisted person is. If you get sunburned while in the military, you can get court marshaled for damaging government property.
Thank you XXX, I am familiar with the UCMJ. This does not explain to me how the ascertion that you forfeit constitutional rights when you join the military. Afterall, isn’t a role of the military to DEFEND our country and the constitution?
Prisons will always be a problem.
The reason most states no longer make license plates is because it involves cutting a lot of metal. License plate manufacturing became shank factories.
Chain gangs take jobs away from professional paving contractors.
Prisoners routinely do maintenance at the Kansas State Fairgrounds in Hutchinson. Routinely, one or two of them escape.
In an effort to rehabilitate, many states contracted prisoners to process phone-order calls. You’re giving your Visa card number to a convict. Nothing bad could result from that, could it?
Cable television is available in prison to lessen the time prisoners talk amongst themselve about ways to kill Corrections Officers.
I used to know a guy who did three years in Lansing for dealing marijuana. While he was inside, he learned how to cook and run a kitchen. Last I heard, he owned six very successful restaurants. Prison is what you make it, I guess.
But not everyone in prison is like my friend. If you’re in the business of crime, prison in your university.
Sometimes I think we should close all prisons and build a 40-foot wall around Wyoming or eastern Montana or one of the Dakotas and air-drop every convict into it and let the prisoners work things out on their own.
If the Bush regime actually listed the titles of the banned books I’m sure we’d find the vast majority of them to be Islamic books with just a few Christian ones thrown in to give the appearance that there isn’t a bias. While both Islam and Christianity preach hate it’s kinda hard to justify throwing CS Lewis kid’s books into the mix. He’s guilty of bad writing, that’s about it.
The issue isn’t whether criminals have rights, or whether they should have to work. The question is whether we want them to read or not, and whether we should force them to read government pre-approved pablum, or something which might open their minds, and which they might actually want to read. Richard Wright’s, Native Son, was criticized as promoting Communism, but it is an American classic. Would it be on the banned list?
Afterall, isn’t a role of the military to DEFEND our country and the constitution?
Posted by: Apophis | September 23, 2007 at 10:49 AM
Indirectly, yes. But when you’re a member of the military, you serve under a different set of rules. As an example, freedom of speech is much more limited. You can’t demonstrate against the war. You can’t question authority. You can be prosecuted for getting a tattoo. You’re not entitled to a trial by a jury of your peers (article 32). You can be imprisoned without trial (correctional custody.
On the other hand, you can demand to see the president. It may take the rest of your life to go through the chain of command, but you have that right.
Apophis, from all I have ever seen or read or heard, a person actually does give up a lot of constitutional rights when joining the military… I dont know about the sunburn part, given we have 160,000+ troops in Iraq… LOL…
But they do give up a number of rights… including, but not limited to, Habeus Corpus, among others… It’s sad, but they say they need it for Control….
BTW, Apophis, a good friend of mine is a Ret. USAF Chaplain, who now lives in Iowa…
As for C. S. Lewis… For some reason, Lewis is considered to be a part of the Neo-Conservative Evangelical wing of Christianity right now… I guess thats why they dont object to “The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe” book…
They object like crazy to Harry Potter, though… ::: shaking head, and rolling eyes :::
FYI, there are TWO prisons in Leavenworth. The Federal Penitentiary, and the United States Disciplinary Barracks (military.) The story was referring to the former.
Thanks for that clarificatin, Zelda, I was going to ask that question… Now, I dont have to…
ALSO… on the matter of prisoners being Dems, or Reps, I thought that once convicted of a felony, one loses the right to vote, regardless of party??? Can anybody confirm that?? Or refute it??? Thanks!!
The vast majority of criminals in prison consider themselves Democrats.
Posted by: Joe Williams
lollike you know anythingyou’re an idiot
But yes the premise of it could be taken as a call for Christian war. It being based on the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve fighting the evil of a world gone mad. Though a stretch, extremism need very little justification to take action.
Posted by: writerdog
that makes for a very uncomfortable family dinner.
The vast majority of criminals in prison consider themselves Democrats.
Posted by: Joe Williams
since rove has convinced most white trash trailer park living unwed mothers of 5 under 8 years old that they are repukes i doubt there are any dems in jail.
you are here to make people mad so how can anyone feel bad calling you a dumbazz?
Joe is right. Most people behind are minorities and most minorities vote for dems. Dems reward criminals and welfare spongers in exchange for their votes. That’s why the dems want to extend the franchise to wetbacks and felons.
Heck, hillary would off Bin Laden amnesty in exchange for a big donation and/or his promise to deliver the muslim vote for her. hehehehehehe
Posted by: Kansas Druid
rove changed all that.anyway most of your dribble doesn’t make any sense.
lay off the crack.
“You can be prosecuted for getting a tattoo.”
felony convictions and gang tattoos are off the, keeps them out of the military list, now days.
Any religion taken to the extreme should be considered dangerous.
Even Pat Robertson, a Christian leader, openly advocated for the assasination of Hugo Chavez. Let’s break this down for those of you so paranoid about anything said derogatory about a Christian.
Pat Robertson advocated for murder and the last time I checked, murder was against God’s law.
What was pathetic was the lack of outrage from Republicans and other Christians at Pat Roberton’s assinine statement.
Just because someone prefaces their statement with their ‘Christian’ view does not maked it morally right.
“Murder was against God’s law”
Are you sure about that? What about late term abortion? I remember a very verbal and pro abortion minister who would routinely go to Tiller’s clinic to bless the dead babies. How sick is that? Some “Christians” amaze me to no end.
I imagine most criminals consider themsleves Christian and believe in the Bible…it’s so much easier to talk the talk that it is to walk the walk. I’m always dumbfounded how most Christians only follow their God’s law if it makes them feel good or it’s not uncomfortable.
If I had a dollar for every drug addict, sex offender, murderer, child molestor, scam artist, judgemental, condemning, anti social, self serving human who proclams to be a Christian and saved by the blood of Jesus, I’d be a rich woman.
Mary – I don’t understand your comment about the pro-abortion minister blessing the dead babies???
What does that have to do with Pat Robertson open advocating murder of a world political leader?
I was referring to these radical right-wing Christians who think they are above the law because they, and only they, have the one true God.
Any religion can be turned into a fundamental radical group bent on terrorizing the rest of the world – and Christians are not an exception.
It figures an anti-abortion zealot will turn the issue of banning reading material into abortion. One track mind.
Not really Doug, I’m hardly a zealot.But I find it pretty hypocritic that Pat Robertson is condemned (which he should be) for his comments by the same people who have no problem with aborting a baby for any reason, even when it’s capable of surviving outside the womb.To me you’ll never find more hypocritical people than those who proclaim they’re Christian.If you support the war machine, if you support abortion, if you think whatever you do is OK as long as it serves your purpose, even at the cost of hurting others..then you shouldn’t be calling yourself a Christian.Pat Robertson is not a Christian man, but neither is anyone who else who supports killing others for any reason.