A depressing Associated Press-Ipsos poll that found fewer adults are reading books also found that liberals read more books than conservatives. The explanation offered by former Colorado Democratic Rep. Pat Schroeder (in photo), now president of the American Association of Publishers, ought to rile people up: “The Karl Roves of the world have built a generation that just wants a couple slogans: ‘No, don’t raise my taxes, no new taxes.’ It’s pretty hard to write a book saying, ‘No new taxes, no new taxes, no new taxes’ on every page.”
By contrast, she said, liberals “can’t say anything in less than paragraphs. We really want the whole picture, want to peel the onion.”
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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327 Comments
You liberals will do anything you can or makeup anything you can to explain something you refuse to understand.
Conservatives like talk radio, because it started as a medium where we didn’t have to be subjected to non-stop liberal bias.
Talk radio offered more than just the same old typical liberal mantra you get from ABC, NBC, and CBS back in the day.
It is not that complicated.
Yet here is Rhonda trying to make it seem like we are merely attracted to the simplicity of it because we don’t like to read anything beyond one line slogans.
This has to be one of the most pathetic threads I have seen from the editors in a while.
Rhonda,
If you were looking for yet another thread for all your little liberal favorites here to bash on Republicans, you got it.
This thread is so devoid of any logical thought, I really don’t even know where to begin.
Talk Radio is entertainment. It’s not an agenda or agenda driven. It’s news and entertainment driven and it’s a business.
Leftist fail in talk radio, because they are agenda driven. Nobody wants to hear anybody have an agenda and repeat it over and over again.
Bush Bad! Bush Bad! Bush Bad!
Leftist don’t read more books. They buy more books though. They throw it on the coffee table to make them look important and involved and “with” the crowd. Keeping up with the Joneses mentality. They don’t read the book. They just tell their leftist friends “I have that book!”
But! The leftist will always portray themselves as more important, more intelligent and more superior than others. Top of the food chain! The Progressives!
Nah! They are just a bunch of beta dogs following the pack.
Leftist to me are just depressing people. Negative and arrogant. You just have to read Pat Schroeder’s comments to see it.
Just do what ever you want, Leftist! I don’t care! Live your life as you see fit. Just don’t try to force others to live and think the way you do and mind your own business and we can get along and actually get down to constructive dialog and worthwhile policies.
But if your plan is dominance and suppression, you have another thing coming. Especially now that you’re hell bent in stopping talk radio.
Funny! A new tax policy book written by a libertarian was on the #1 spot on the New York Times best seller list.
Joe, you really think talk radio doesnt have an agenda?? You ever listen to it?? It only takes about 2 minutes to figure out the agenda… The liberals want us to lose the war… The liberals want to take your tax money… The liberals want to take your guns… The liberals want to make us all socialists with health care… etc, etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseum…
THAT is an AGENDA… Day after Day after Day after Day!! ALL Day on some stations…
So you think:
“The leftist will always portray themselves as more important, more intelligent and more superior than others. Top of the food chain! The Progressives!”
Maybe… JUST maybe… It’s because we ARE!!! ROFLMAO!!!
Nathan,
Did you even bother to read the two articles linked in the blog entry before attacking Holman?
Tom — Does he ever?? LOL :-)
Great thread Rhonda! Nathan is only correct in one aspect of his rantings:”If you were looking for yet another thread for all your little liberal favorites here to bash on Republicans, you got it.”
Well, the game is ON!
Con talk radio is NOTHING but agenda: It is hate-speech, plain and simple. O’Reilley, Hannity, Savage and the entire lot are just Goebbels wannabes.Cons listen to this crap for a couple of reasons IMHO. They thrive on class warfare, they generally detest minorities, many are taliban “christians”, and many are just plain “too stupid” to think for themselves. The thought of even reading a book would abhor them. It might be a “Liberal Conspiricy”.
The Fairness Doctrine needs to reinstated.
Conservatives like talk radio, because it started as a medium where we didn’t have to be subjected to non-stop liberal bias
You do know that radio stations are paid to run talk shows, don’t you. Yes, Rush Limbaugh has more listeners than other talkers, but only because he has been force fed to us on hundreds of stations by the Clear Channel. Certain people will listen to anything, and once you have enough of them, you can sell national advertising. Local, and rural stations which run Rush get a slice of that income. And why wouldn’t they take it? They’ll run ANYTHING that brings in a buck. Once, driving across Kansas, I found Rush on nine stations. And why not? — In effect, the Limbaugh show is a paid advertisement.
If you’ll look at arbitron ratings in major markets you’ll find that conservative talk radio rates far lower than music stations, sports talk stations, and in some cases, lower than foreign language stations.
Conservatives make the point that so far liberal talk radio has failed to take off. What you don’t realize is that normal people don’t give a rat’s —– about political talk shows, they listen to music, or regular news to be informed, or sports shows if they like sports — anything but talk radio.
What I have never been able to understand about those who do actually listen to Rush, and Savage, and Beck, and that horrid witch on CNN at night is how can you stand the pain?
What book did you read last week, Joe Williams?
What was the last book you read Nathan?
COMIC BOOKS DON’T COUNT.
???. TOUCHE’!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Conservatives watch “Survivor”.
Liberals read Robinson Caruso and Lord Of The Flies.
So I will ask again, why are the GW deniers exclusively Right Wing?Answer the question.
Posted by: WSClark | August 24, 2007 at 07:46 PM
It’s because people who tend to be Republican are skeptical and don’t buy into things right away without carefully studying the problem.
People of the left tend grab the latest conspiracy theory and turn it into a cult. They could care less if they know anything about the science or not. They will follow blindly any leftist leader whatever words they say.
Those are the facts.
Posted by: Kansas | August 24, 2007 at 08:34 PM
Hmmm…perhaps the “facts” aren’t so solid are they K?
Robinson Caruso
Mary’s husband?
Bringing back the so-called “Fairness Doctrine” is ridiculous. If you don’t like the speech you’re hearing A) change the channel and/or B) Make your own speech.
I do not disagree with those options Tom.
The removal of the “Fairness Doctrine” was one of the early Con moves to put their agenda forward in the 80’s. It has only gotten worse. I can turn the radio off or change the station. Not everyone (especially Cons) are that intelligent.
Hey, Bush read a book! It was up-side down, but then…so’s Bush.
Darn, Bush is really good.
He has control of all them Democrats and he can read a book upside down.
Reading a book upside down gives me a headache.
Bush bashing starting early today.
Thinkfirst,
That “upside down book” was “photoshopped” in. It never happened.
Many conservatives probably can’t read judging from some of the stupid shit they say on talk radio. I think the main reason they liten to it is the “closed loop theory” whereas conservatives who harbour certain points of view only want to hear others of a like mindset enforce that point of view. That is why the conservative talk host- with the exception of Bill O’Reilly- almost never take calls from people who oppose that point of view. Listening to it can be very entertaining and revealing about the Republicans and conservatives and how they really feel about things because they tend to say things on the radio that they really feel since nobody knows who they are. Their anti black, anti Jew, anti women and anti immigrant feelings come out very well. I was listening just yesterday and to my surprise, many conservative Republicans were actually defending Michael Vick! Not that they like the black QB but they were saying things like “dogs are nothing more than property and a man oughtta be able to do what he wants with his own property”. Although I think Vick got a raw deal because he is black, I would not say it is OK to torture dogs. Another Republican talk station was discussing the beating Bishop Weeks gave his wife Juanita Bynum last week in the parking lot of a hotel. Again many of them called in and said that beating your wife was a form of Biblical discipline that was sanctioned by God and that the government should “stay out of family affairs”. So I kind of like talk radio because it gives Americans very unique insight into what the Republican mind really thinks. They can now look past all the bullshit smokescreen ads like “compassionate conservatism” and see the real raw deal. Then they can ask themselves “is this who I want running the country my kids have to grow up in?”. Another good thing is that they finally founs some use for the AM radio band which was in a death spiral prior to being saved by Republican talk radio and sports talk radio.
“Hey, Bush read a book!”Posted by: thinkfirst
It was reported that he read it.
“Conservatives make the point that so far liberal talk radio has failed to take off. What you don’t realize is that normal people don’t give a rat’s —– about political talk shows, they listen to music, or regular news to be informed, or sports shows if they like sports — anything but talk radio.”
Not only that but we have CNN News Radio, NPR and the New York Times to read.
Oh this thread is already too funny. It reminds me of the time Bill O’Reilly made fun of Jon’s audience, only to find that Billo’s audience had far less education than Jons. And to say NEocon radio hasn’t an agenda???? What the heck Nathan? Your side’s agenda is to blame anything non-neocon on ‘liberal media”. Please.
Joe, so you’re finally admitting you’re not a liberal. Thank you. About time.
And this is the ultimate quote o’ de day…”It’s because people who tend to be Republican are skeptical and don’t buy into things right away without carefully studying the problem”
Uhhhh…can we say Iraq war?
So much of talk radio is on in the afternoon. Do conservatives not have day jobs? Or do they just waste their employer’s working hours distracted by listening to propaganda? Maybe there is little liberal talk radio because people who would listen to it have real jobs and actually work hard to earn their employer’s pay.
It’s because people who tend to be Republican are skeptical and don’t buy into things right away without carefully studying the problem.
People of the left tend grab the latest conspiracy theory and turn it into a cult. They could care less if they know anything about the science or not. They will follow blindly any leftist leader whatever words they say.
Those are the facts.
Posted by: Kansas | August 24, 2007 at 08:34 PM
Oops Kansas.
The current talking points for the Republicans say to stress the LEADERSHIP of the Republicans while saying that the Democrats just want to form committees and STUDY issues.
If you can’t keep up with talking points, the neoCons will want you to give back the decoder ring they gave you!
I’ve been a caller on the Neal Boortz show three times. I was moved to the head of the line because I disagreed with the host.
Talk radio is a dynamic medium and immediately (if you allow it) have your point attacked. That is unlike the NY Times, 60 Minutes, etc. The attack can be instant and it is carried over the same medium will little editorial control by the ‘host’.
Sure most programs abuse the callers, just like the Eagle is dismissive of people they disagree with. Just look at the latest global warming topic to see what the Eagle thinks of the other side.
Bill O’Reilly is one of the worst for abusing callers. He generally will argue with a caller for maybe a minute. Then he will cut off the call and continue a tirade for another couple of minutes. During that tirade he will attribute beliefs to a caller they did not express, but likely had. He’s like a gentle version of Political Mom or Chas.
Proudman,
Congratulations!
You turned what started as an insightful and meaningful commentary into a cheap personal attack on two other posters!
Way to go!
:::eyeroll:::
I see both assumptions, I get tired of the right seeming to love one liners and slogans as if that is the total mindset of the right. The war in Iraq is the classic example. “Cut and run”, “giving into the terrorists”, “Preferring defeat over victory”. Instead of stating the case in a sound, logical and specific manner. Redeployment does not necessarily mean to totally withdraw all troops from the region or the theater. IN fact I have not encounter very many that say that is what they mean by redeployment. A look at history if Custer had redeployed his troops, he and the men with him would have survived the Little Bighorn! He certainly had the troops available to have repealed the Sioux attack. But instead he stood and fought history records how that worked out. Overwhelming force works well against a standing enemy, but that is not whom we are fighting in Iraq. Nor are we facing a forward assault force like Custer was and if he had redeployed his troop even outnumbered he had the trained, experienced and numbers to withstand the attack and beat it back till he could have enough reinforcement to totally defeat the enemy. (Man I can feel the losing of interest right now in some!).***I also see where the left is saying quite a bit yet not saying what they need to say! They are falling totally silent on explaining what they mean by redeployment. It’s funny to me why they are letting such things slide, perhaps the assumption is correct that they feel that the people in general are too simplistic to understand. The people in general maybe too ignorant of the bigger picture but I still feel we are intelligent enough to understand if it is explained. Neither side is doing well at that, with the left using over kill to get the point across and the right using very simple phrases to explain their view. Of a very large and complex situation. To totally withdraw now without the conditions be where there is a fighting chance of Iraq being able to stand up would mean we failed. But to stay without the focus being totally on those conditions being met means once we do withdraw. It would be like we were fighting a building fire only on one side and never fighting the fire on the other side. The way it stands now we are only stopping the flame from totally is engulfing the entire building. The fire is still burning and there is no hope of it stopping till everything is consumed.****Yes at times I get the feeling I am alone in the Republican party and for that matter in this country. I have taken the time to not just accept the party line and blindly defend the President solely because he is a “Republican”. I know from here and other places that is not the case, it is a symptom of a bigger problem this country is facing. In large we have become a country where more people do not want to take the time to actually study and look beyond the two second sound bytes and to really think. People want to run on the fast track and devote less time to focusing on one issue. To coin a phrase from Leo Strauss, “we live up to the title of the “Unwashed masses”. Easily distracted and controlled once given a common enemy to hate.***LOL now if you have read this entire post I applaud you, but judging from the topic. How many of those that have read the entire post and not stopped at one point you agreed or disagreed with were Conservatives or Liberals? If you answer the question it will be a telling tale of whether the subject was correct or not?
I’m a liberal and I read your post wd.
Tom,
I made a comparison, not an attack. I wanted the people reading it to have a more personal example of my view of B.O.
And thanks for being the blog daddy. Why do you bother to make such comments. You so far have four posts on here. Two attack other posters and two add to the discussion. You are obviously working 50% to hard.
WD, I think I agree with you.
I am not sure we know who the enemy is. We spend so much of our time attacking each other making it impossible to win anywhere else.
It is a fact:Democrats are not 100% correct and Rebulicans are not 100% correct.
The trick is to keep the right parts from each side and throw away the part that does on work. Instead each side is unwilling to eliminate anything from its agenda.
Until we start working together how do we expect to accomplishing anything?
The articles indicated that liberals read more books by a fairly small margin. Women seem to read more than men by a somewhat larger margin. My initial comment, therefore, is that men need to get cracking on the books. A gentleman in one of the articles remarked that fiction is not his bailiwick. Fair enough, but he’s missing out. Perhaps he’s not curious about Cairo, or Jerusalem, or Tokyo, or other parts of the world he may never see. One great way to go to Cairo is to find a good novel set in Cairo. You get your pounder pack of M&M’s, your coffee and your book, and away you go. Getting into a good novel is hard at first, especially if you haven’t taken a run at one in a while. The mindset is different. So it’s best to make a commitment of at least two hours, devoid of interruptions (no blogging!), and allow yourself to get crowded out of the here and now and into the imagined world. Men, at any rate, tend to go for business books or maybe biographies. I would suggest picking up some great diaries as a change of pace. This exercise can lead to the appreciation of fiction because, in the case of a good diary as well as fiction, you are listening to the sound of one literary voice which begins to work its magic on you. (The next thing you know, you’re ready for Casanova’s memoirs and, good gracious, these are not to be missed!) Maybe men feel that fiction is a waste of time since the described events never happened. But what business writer, political writer, or biographer, is one hundred percent reliable when all is said and done? Every writer has blind spots and biases. I read biographies, histories and books about Wall Street or whatever because I want to know how the world works, but no writer takes you into the backrooms of business or politics any better than a worldly-wise fictionalist. The novels of Charles McCarry or Ward Just would be a good place to start.
First, I consider myself a conservative, and I read about a book a week – sometimes two.
Conservative talk radio – especially Limbaugh – is about promoting ideas. It’s commentary. It’s three hours of editorial.
Personally, I don’t like the fundamental tenets of the democrat party. They believe the government knows better than I how to spend my money. They think they know better than I what’s best for me. They think the jihadists will leave us alone if we’ll just show them some love. And, worst of all, they think the government is more effective and efficient than the free market.
I don’t believe any of those things, and Conservative Talk Radio doesn’t believe them, as well. We’ll speak out against those principles, and we’ll speak out against those that promote them. We’ll lift up our own ideas of personal freedom, personal responsibility and capitalism.
If that’s hate speech – count me in.
Reading is a passion; talk radio is pure pablum. Conservative talk radio by the likes of Rush Limbaugh.
There’s an true American for you. How many times has he been divorced? Got a bit of a drug problem? Used to berate drug addicts while he himself was addicted? Yep, that’s the guy I want my kids listening to. . . not!
I would also bet if good ‘ole boy Rush were to believe there was more money in Liberal talk radio, he would jump off the elephant in a New York minute.
So, my not listening to Rush is not political, but is based more on the hypocrisy of the idiot. But then, that seems to be the Conservative trademark, doesn’t it!
JM,Your comments smack of pure liberalism: ignore the ideas of conservative vs. liberal and go straight to personal attacks.
Bravo.
CAN’T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?
“They believe the government knows better than I how to spend my money. They think they know better than I what’s best for me. They think the jihadists will leave us alone if we’ll just show them some love. And, worst of all, they think the government is more effective and efficient than the free market.”
KSGolfnut
It seems to me that the Republican Party doesn’t believe in any of those things you just mentioned.
Proudman,
Since when is asking Nathan a question an attack?
How is comparing someone to Bill O’Reilly NOT an attack? I know I’d be offended.
Excuse me, replace the word ‘love’ with ‘money’.
Main Entry: 2progressiveFunction: noun1 a : one that is progressive b : one believing in moderate political change and especially social improvement by governmental action2 capitalized : a member of any of various United States political parties: as a : a member of a predominantly agrarian minor party that around 1912 split off from the Republicans; specifically : Bull Moose b : a follower of Robert M. La Follette in the presidential campaign of 1924 c : a follower of Henry A. Wallace in the presidential campaign of 1948
Main Entry: 2liberalFunction: noun: a person who is liberal: as a : one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways b capitalized : a member or supporter of a liberal political party c : an advocate or adherent of liberalism, especially in individual rights
Main Entry: 1pop·u·listPronunciation: ‘pä-py&-listFunction: nounEtymology: Latin populus the people1 : a member of a political party claiming to represent the common people; especially often capitalized : a member of a United States political party formed in 1891 primarily to represent agrarian interests and to advocate the free coinage of silver and government control of monopolies2 : a believer in the rights, wisdom, or virtues of the common people
Main Entry: con·ser·va·tismPronunciation: k&n-’s&r-v&-”ti-z&mFunction: noun1 capitalized a : the principles and policies of a Conservative party b : the Conservative party2 a : disposition in politics to preserve what is established b : a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change3 : the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change
Main Entry: con·ser·va·tismPronunciation: k&n-’s&r-v&-”ti-z&mFunction: noun1 capitalized a : the principles and policies of a Conservative party b : the Conservative party2 a : disposition in politics to preserve what is established b : a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change3 : the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change
Interpretation:(the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change)= the tendency to lie cheat steal, trash the constitution and the whole world’s resources so me and my filthy rich buddies can do as we damned well please. We are the status quo and intend to keep it that way. Up yours.
While I place small confidence in the sited study, realizing studies and statistics can be made to reflect the designers agenda, I would not disagree that liberals read, or at least purchase, more books than conservatives on average.From what I have learned, and certainly pickup up reading this blog, is that reading may be the only form of communication that liberals can exercise sufficient control over in the speed at which they preform it. Liberals must necessarily slow their reading speed down to the very low level of comprehension they are capable of. Reading does not require the higher level of multitasking that talk radio requires either, and they are better able to devote their full though limited attention to it.Talk radio is simply too much too fast and beyond their capability to comprehend.Liberals tend to have much, much more time available to them to read as well. Sitting idly around contemplating how others should be living as they do and what is wrong with everybody but them.Conservatives are too busy keeping things going, like making a living, creating businesses, giving people jobs, and the list goes on.No, while not agreeing with the sited study, I would not disagree either after observing the cause and effect of that study’s result.
Nathan sez AM talk radio is an oasis for conservatives, a place where they can catch a break from the non-stop onslaught of insidious librul bias from Those Who Refuse To Understand.
Joe! sez it’s just entertainment, period.
Proudman sez it’s a place where if yer careful the host will let you tap outta the Matrix and get yer 15 minutes. Insight can stretch yer time.
KSGolfnut sez, nah it’s all about ideas. Nobody’s concerned with performance, instead it’s just a place where he can go and hear somebody tell him about the glory of his Market the God.
I sez it’s a tuning fork.
Boortz or Limbaugh strikes the tuning fork, and conservatives who resonate to the frequency gather round to hear the vibrations. Along about election time, Savage or Medved will bring out a finer tuning fork and a dog whistle for conservatives. This combination makes them howl all the louder.
Nothing more, nothing less.
I wonder which one of our Lib posters is ???. You know the type that has been known to cut and paste comments I make from another thread and re-post them out of context into another thread.
Anyway, back on topic…
One of my sisters is tends to vote Liberal and has Liberal views. The choice of books she reads are all fantasy related and almost always fiction. My other sister tends to be conservative and the choice of books she reads tend to be practical and almost always non-fiction.
I read a combination of fiction and non-fiction and although moderate for the most part, I’m on the right side of moderate.
Radio Talk Shows? – never listen to them. If I listen to the radio it’s for news, weather or on the Public Radio station for classical music or when he’s on Garrison Keillor.
I have noticed that most conservative talk show hosts tend to cater to the entertainment side of talk rather than be political. The exception may be Sean Hannity which I can only listen to for about 5 seconds before I have to change the station.
Hannity is more of a ranter than the other two. He appears to be genuinely nice, but he sure can rant.
Anyway, my two cents.
I am a conservative. I read a lot of books. I read quite a variety of books.
I listen to Rush because he is smart and entertaining. He keeps the liberal panties in a wad. I listen to Hannity because he is current and has a wide variety of guests.
I also listen to Air America quite a bit. Now there is ‘hate radio’! Talk about agenda, slogan driven radio!
You claim conservative radio has an agenda? Are you serious? What about Joe Solmonese? His show is called “The Agenda”! You’ll not find a more ‘agenda driven’ show!
You call conservative radio ‘hate radio’? Have you ever listened to the pure vitriol spewed out by Randi Rhodes? Pure hate BS with hardly a cogent thought.
Very few of the wacky left on this BLOG can carry on a political discussion on the merits of any position without resorting to ad hominum attacks. It their modus operandi.
Hank
LOL
And Mark sez talk radio is like tapping into a fire hydrant of all that’s dynamic and Superior about the uber-race also known as conservatives. Mark sez readin’ is dial-up, but Limbaugh is T1.
LOL
Have you ever noticed how quick some people put eveyone into a mold.
If you are a conservative, you fit the red mold. If you are a liberal you fit the blue mold. If you are an independent you fit that weird mold over there.
I think this is another way of saying, “I do not like that idea because I do not like conservatives/liberals/independents.” Saves having to explain why you oppose or favor an idea.
hud, if the mold fits why break it?
because repukes are mindless drones who have to be fed talking points to make conversation.
they are the most ignorant of the bunch and those that listen to oxy boy loving Rush are the worst
Actually, all people tend to put people in a mold. Sometimes more hastily if the conversation or topic is heated.
I’ll pick on Ben for a moment. For the most part Ben is conservative, but I’m guessing (don’t really know) that he votes Democratic. He has leftist leanings on some issues, but for the most part tends to be just to the Democratic side on the Moderate scale politically.
I’m exactly Ben’s polar opposite. I tend to be conservative, but have some right leanings, but am just to the right of the Moderate side politically. Oh yes, I do vote republican 90 percent of the time.
I do have some issues that I believe in that irk some pure conservatives. I do believe that there should be no discrimination of Gays in our society because it boils down to sex discrimination in my opinion and that is against our laws. If we can’t apply the sex discrimination law in terms of marriage/spouse arrangement, then we have failed our own set of laws.
I am a true supporter of Conservative foreign policy. That is, never be an appeaser. Always show a strong hand and if it becomes necessary thwack em with the big stick.
Do I think the Iraq war was a mistake to start? Yes, I do think it was a mistake. However, I’m not going to be a back peddling wimp once we are in it. I truly believe once an action is started that we must support the entire chain of command from the Commander-in-Chief right down to the private.
Nothing tears a nation apart faster than to be wishy washy on issues without a plan of action or to be a political coward once you are in a conflict. One has to stand up, show a strong face and be brave for those who cannot afford to be brave.
Call me patriotic of the old school ways, but that’s who I am.
“Neo-Cons are stoopid.”
“Lefties are eeeevil.”
Repeat ad nauseum…
And all of this before 11 AM on Saturday. Sheesh.
“May your enemies always underestimate you” The Art of War.
Liberals, your arrogant refusal to believe that conservatives have any brains at all will always be your greatest weakness.
“Its the economy stupid” Democrat slogan. Carville inspired to help Clinton.
“Worst economy in 50 years” Completely FALSE slogan, also used to help Clinton.
Books?
Liberals, how many books have you read about Communist Gulags, in Cuba, the Soviet Union or elsewhere?Liberals, how many books have you read about starting a business, and the difficulties suffered by small business owners every day?
There are exceptions, of coarse, but those of you on the left are not likely to seek out uncomfortable subjects, either. It is a natural human trait. Yes, I admit that many conservatives don’t listen to the left. I think this is a mistake. We cant fight you if we dont understand you.
However, reading this Blog proves to me that many on the left don’t really know ANY conservatives.
I have had Black and Mexican Frat mates, in college. I had swastikas painted on my dorm and crosses burned in my lawn. How many of YOU can say that, on the left? My girlfriend has Black nieces and nephews, how many of you can say that?
Calling conservatives “racists” without any just cause, is just as bad as using any racial slur.
You libs that resort to such garbage are “unread,” ignorant and don’t get out much —
That or you know the truth and you prefer to lie!
Either way, those liberals on this blog who consistantly use the “racist” line should be ashamed of themselves.
There is NOTHING conservative about racism.
J. William Fubrite was Bill Clintons mentor from Arkansas, he was a LIBERAL Democrat.
Democrat Senator Robert Byrd was a KKK leader.
There is NOTHING racist about talk radio. In fact, Many times Rush brings in BLACK guest-hosts, when he is on vacation.
Where is the REAL hate here? You can’t fight talk radio on the merits, so you call talk radio hate speech.
Rather cowardly, if you ask me.
Pretty funny to watch the Wingnut hissy fit when anyone impugns their collective intelligence.
Huh. Well, let’s see. The Wingnuts couldn’t pollute the universities, so they created think-tanks. And what marvellous policy legacies have these right wing think tanks bequeathed us?
-Intelligent Design-Global Warming Denial/oil company apologetics-The Iraq War
Wingnuts, when it comes to detangling the world as it actually is from your wishful thinking, you don’t exactly have the best record.
J William Fulbrite was also a racist, by the way!
Okay, Kansas…
I will bet that before this day is over someone will put you in the red mold and it will not necessarily be because of the heat of battle.
I did have one problem with you post. You are standing in my spot. I disagree with you on discrimination, a little, not on whether or not it is right or wrong, it is wrong; but the correction. Maybe, we started out wrong by building in discrimination with our rules, laws, etc and have handled it wrong every since.
“Black nieces and nephews, how many of you can say that?”
I have five.
Fulbright, I think actually.
I suppose you have a worldnet link to confirm your assertion Paulie.
Econ,
I just finished “Cobra II: The inside story of the invasion of Iraq” (I may have the subtitle slightly wrong) by General Bernard Trainor.
Econ101,
“There’s nothing conservative about racism.”
Oh, really? Like when Ronald Reagan went to Philadelphia, MS, in 1980, and promised to protect “States’ Rights?”
Please. Whether you’re personally a racist or not, the Republican Party absolutely has been playing the race card for the last forty years.
Once more, with feeling: “who are you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?”
Or perhaps CF2K, like John F. Kennedy who had to be talked into supporting the Civil Rights issues and proposed laws in Congress. He wasn’t initially a supporter, many had to convince him it was the right thing to do.
“The Great Emancipator” – Republican
His assassin – democrat
George Wallace, champion of segregation – democrat
Champions of evolution and those that believe blacks are “one step closer to the monkeys” – democrats
Jesse Jackson & Al Sharpton: two of the most radical racists today – democrat
Colin Powell, Condi Rice: two of the most successful blacks today – Republican
George Bush, under whom black home ownership and black business ownership has thrived – Republican
I could go on and on…
Billo is a gentle version of me? Are you out of your mind? Have you actually listened to him? And Hank, you seriously think Hannity is a moderate. You people are smoking something.
Every week when I’m over cleaning my grandmother’s house, I have to listen to the drivel on Faux news. This morning was a real treat, a panel of about 4 stock market experts talking about the democrats running for president…and our agenda to steal from the rich. one guy said that “dems are against shipping our jobs overseas…even if that is GOOD for America” Yeah, tell that to my friend who just found out they’re shipping his Alltel job overseas- and now they have to sell their house and move away from Salina so he can try to find a job that made the same money.
Oh and I believe it was the same guy who said “Americans losing their homes is something the democrats will use to their advantage…even if losing those homes IS GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY, because more poor see it as a bad thing and there is more of them than us”.
WTH? Yes, you heard it right. Poor people foreclosing is good for the rich people. I don’t even know how that argument is accurate even for a republican.
And interestingly, I heard Glen Beck and that Kramer guy say the exact opposite, and that there has to be a line from when the rich stop sucking the life from the poor.
Political Mom! I’m a Liberal! READ my post! I said Leftist!
Leftist are not Liberals. You P-mom, are a not a liberal. You’re a Leftist. Although you’re not radical. So It’s all good. So long as you’re not radical, you’re harmless.
I for one just disagree with Leftism philosophy and ideology. I don’t care if other people believe in leftism or try to change our political system to a Leftist state, so long as it’s within the law and they don’t start taking away rights and freedoms.
We all should have a fair playing field in the political system. I don’t care if it’s Conservatives, Liberals, Leftist, Fascist, Anarchist, Pacifist, or whatever. We should all default to freedom and we should all allow fair political discourse.
But when you resort to shutting down the system because you want to shut up people you disagree with, then we have a serious problem.
If leftist can’t make it on radio, then they can’t make it on radio. If conservatives can’t write good books, then they can’t write good books. That’s the market place.
Just let it be!
Joe, you aren’t liberal.
What’s a liberal to you P-mom?
J William Fulbrite, Clinton’s mentor, was a segragtionist.
JFK, and Robert Kennedy, wire-tapped Martin Luther King.
“States Rights” are REAL, the 10th Amendment is REAL! States rights were missused by pro-slavery Democrats and pro-Segregation Democrats.
The STATE is in charge of anything that the Constitution does NOT cover.
The Constitution does NOT allow for slavery, or segregation.
By the way, wasn’t Al Gore’s dad ALSO a segregationist? (And a polluter, lol)
Econ, a more correct statement is that the Constitution, since 1866, does not allow for slavery; and since its interpretation by SCOTUS in 1954, has been held to not allow segregation based upon race.
And, let us not forget the NINTH Amendment in our discussion of rights…
When I think liberal, I’m referring to someone with both liberal social and liberal fiscal viewpoints. You can have liberal social/conservative fiscal, conservative social/liberal fiscal..and con/con.
NEOcon is not necessarily the same thing is con/con, just like leftist is not the same as lib/lib. To me, a leftist would truly fall more along the lines of socialist/communist. A neocon is more fascist.
At least that is how I see it.
Ok Fair P-mom. I like that.
But in the classic liberal definition, a liberal economic philosophy is one of freedom and free market enterprise.
But the so called “new” definition of liberalism has been change in the classic sense.
So in the modern labels that we are known to go by now, you can say that I’m a social liberal but a quasi-fiscal conservative.
I’ll vote Democrat, so long as that Democrat is not a leftist or an economic socialist. I like pro-business Democrats like Bill Clinton and Kathleen Sebelius.
I wonder how many of the conservatives on this blog have read “My Pet Goat”?
P Mommy,
When I said you are a gentle version of O’Reilly that was said in the context of attributing positions to people. He is the gentle version because what he attributes is at least consistent with the typical views of that type of person.
You have stated here on the blog that Libertarians think that the poor should be happy with their ‘tent’.
Similarly, the self-proclaimed pastor Chas. said that if I’m a Libertarian I cannot be Christian.
Many political pundits use the ‘define the other guys view for them technique’. Some are gentle or are not making much of an intellectual leap. There there is you.
And before you start with the prove it BS,
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/04/poverty_numbers.html#comment-67280042
“Similarly, the self-proclaimed pastor Chas. said that if I’m a Libertarian I cannot be Christian.”
I suppose you can PROVE I said that??? WHY would I say that… I am FOR Ron Paul…
Oh, and for the record, I am not “self-proclaimed” — I am ordained by a world wide denomination…. So, what credentials do you have for spewing LIES ProudMan???
It will take some time to find that little rant of yours ‘Pastor’.
It will take you a LONG time, idiot… I never SAID IT!!!
It is not for me to judge WHO is a Christian… especially not by political affiliations!!
That has got to be one of the most idiotic, vitriolic statements on this blog today!!
Who the sam hill do you think you are, Proud Man???
As somebody mentioned… Pride goes before the FALL!!!
IN FACT… Why dont you look for the times when I have identified myself as a Libertarian, with left leaning tendencies….
That ought to show you fairly clearly that YOU ARE DEAD WRONG about your earlier post….
I think it might be a fairly good idea, if everybody here just left other bloggers Nics/Names OUT of their posts, unless they have been directly addressed, or are responding to another blogger…
This ad hominem BS crap is getting pretty out of hand here lately… It will destroy this blog, if we dont all just put an end to it…
I love all these wild, hysterical comments about “liberals” this and “conservatives” that. Give me a break! Does anyone really believe that ALL liberals and ALL conservatives live, work and act EXACTLY the same?
These silly, one-dimensional attitudes that ALL liberals are poor and lazy and that ALL conservatives are hate-mongering bigots are not true and also very unhelpful when it comes to attempting to have honest, open dialogue with one another. Why don’t you all stick to honestly discussing the issues in a respectful manner and give the name-calling and stereotyping a rest.
VTI do not disagree with your take on the matter.
However, I believe that “Dred Scott” was wrongly decided.
The “Federalists” vs the “Anti-Federalists” had everything to do with the 9th and 10th Amendment.
Also, slavery Vs anti-slavery issues played a role.
Even so, I think a strong legal case could be made AGAINST slavery, prior to its specific abolition in 1866.
Interesting debate, but I was only making the point that one can support “States Rights” without supporting slavery or segregation.
I agree LP… But if you take away the tunnel vision of either side, then talk radio has little left as a foundation for its existence… Without constant name calling, talk radio, on either side, would fade away!! LOL
Maybe that would be good….
From the conservatives’ posting I see one common thread – they are all playing the persecution card. Big bad liberal media is beating up on Bush and his supporters.
Rush Limbaugh has made millions of dollars off people who like to feel they are in a special, select group that looks down on others not associated with their group. These people are usually under-educated and easily led by their noses – hence, that is why so many Christian Conservatives worship Rush Limgbaugh.
Perhaps liberals are more inclined to look at other avenues of knowledge and are not content with just being told what to think and do by some big, fat white guy who is fleecing millions out of his followers?
“Huh. Well, let’s see. The Wingnuts couldn’t pollute the universities, so they created think-tanks.”
. . .but they keep trying. Witness David Horowitz’s attempt to force conservative ideology into the classroom, via the so-called ‘academic bill of rights’!
I think there IS such as a thing as intelligent conservatism, but you won’t it on talk radio (but then you won’t find INTELLIGENCE on talk radio, either!).
Hank, you think RUSH is intelligent?? The last time I listened to Rush, we has ranting imbecile, flailing about, impervious to logic, with few sources (if any), and no credible arguments. It was mostly rhetoric, and, GOD, it was REPETITITITITITVE!!
Has Rush changed?
Curiously….
I’m a Rush follower and a Christian Conservative. And Mr. Limbaugh has never “fleeced” me out of a dime.
Again – the liberal mantra: avoid the issues and resort to personal attacks.
the end.
One factor unaccounted for in the poll is WHERE the readers live….
Now, you may think that is unimportant, but when you take into account that most of the inmates in our prisons are Democrats – then you can easily see why that party reads more books…it’s one of the few things convicts are allowed to do.
The study also didn’t reveal whether or not the Democrats were counting their favorite books – comic books. ;)
“most of the inmates in our prisons are Democrats – then you can easily see why that party reads more books…it’s one of the few things convicts are allowed to do.”
HAHAHAHAHA!
Good one, GS! Completely asinine, and I LOVE IT!
My favorite ‘talk show’ is Charlie Rose on PBS. The reason – he has guests of all political positions and they explore issues. It sometimes isn’t easy to follow but a lot of very divergant viewpoints get aired.
A while back he had Paul Wolfowitz (sp?) on for the hour. Very interesting and informative.
So, instead of getting pre-digested talking points from a host I get the real stuff from the participants. Then I can synthesize my own opinions of what the various guests have said.
Only once did I allow myself to get into an ongoing discussion that evolved into an argument with another blogger. It was on another blog but with a regular who blogs here. I’m new to blogging and not at all good at it! My experience with exchanging thoughts remains with the old-fashioned meeting someone, exchanging small talk in getting to know and respect one another and then maybe moving into areas of discussion where you hold differing opinions. Jumping right into disagreement still surprises me, but that’s what happens on blogs. And we all seem to think our opinion is right which makes the differing opinion wrong. I hardly ever recognize that holding an opinion only makes me, well, just opinionated.
So back to that one time. I was sure I was the reasonable one! I also felt the other person was potentially dangerous. I asked my hubby to read the entire exchange. I expected his approval and endorsement — after all, not only was I right but defending in a reasonable manner.
Imagine my surprise when he told me I was egging the situation on, making it worse with my sarcasm and disrespect! The only comfort I was given was his thought that the other poster was behaving as badly as me. He thought we were both acting like children and as adults should have recognized when the discussion ended and the argument began.
Can’t tell you I’m better at blogging but I learned to agree to disagree more quickly. Then there is the art of ignore rather than escalate which works well too. Oh, and I learned not to expect approval when I don’t deserve it — at least not from my hubby. (giggle)
How condescending of you GSheridan and obviously you know all about prison life -don’t you?
That is very telling in itself???
Maidmarion – GSheridan is projecting.
Nuttie – do you ever patronize the sponsors of Rush’s talk show? If so, then you have been fleeced out of some money.
Rush isn’t doing this entertainment act for the pure pleasure of it – he is doing it for the millions. Duh…
Maidmarion,
The same could be said for every other major network news outlet….
After all, oxycontin ain’t cheap, nor are the lawyers who keep one out of jail for being illegally addicted to it.
Chas.,
When you said:
Hoever, Proud Man, if you are actually a Libertarian, then it shouldnt matter to you one way or the other…
Posted by: Chas. | July 25, 2007 at 09:35 PMhttp://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/07/open-thread-725.html#comment-77195332
I take that as an insult that a Libertarian cannot be a Christian. After all, if I am not concerned about the salvation of mankind I’m not a follower of Christ.
See I also wondered about this little gem from your mouth:
AND SO THE SOCK PUPPETS CRAWL BACK INTO THEIR DRAWER UNTIL THE NEXT TIME… NITE ALL!! GOD BLESS, WHATEVER YOU CONCEIVE GOD TO BE!!
Posted by: Chas. | August 23, 2007 at 01:16 AMhttp://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/open-thread-822.html#comment-80349801
However I have learned not to bother discussing religion with out-of-work clergy.
Rhonda has obviously never listened to Rush.
He constantly provides in-depth analysis of the issues, not just sound bites.
Listen for 1 day, that’s 3 hours Rhonda, then give your editorial another try.
“Listen for 1 day, that’s 3 hours Rhonda, then give your editorial another try.”
I have listened to a lot of Rush, much more than just 3 hours. If you call that “in-depth analysis of the issues” I have a bridge for sale. A lot of repetition, no depth.
Ben,
If Rush has no depth in a 3 hour Radio Talk show, then what other major media outlet does?
I don’t know of many other media outlets which provide more than even 1 hour to their show.
I suppose Headline News? There is nothing but a bunch of sound bites repeated over and over again…
Oh boy… You got it terribly backwards, Proud Man… YOU challenged me… because I agreed with PMom that with all of the religious arguments, maybe non-belief is something to think about…
THEN, you asked me if I was endorsing lack of faith/belief….Because you either didnt understand, or mis-understood what I had said to PMom…
THEN, I responded to you, Not at all… just talking about signs of the times…
THEN, I said to you, if you are really a Libertarian, it shouldnt make any difference…
And that is STILL true… For the Libertarian concept, it shouldnt make any difference whether a person has faith or not… Libertarian principles seem to me to be ABOVE such things…
NOW… you still want to say what you said before??? I NEVER said that if you are a Libertarian, you cant be a Christian…. Your own link(above) proves that just plain as the nose on your face!!
So, knock off with the smear tactics, and name calling!!
“Rush isn’t doing this entertainment act for the pure pleasure of it – he is doing it for the millions.”
I love these kinds of statements. On the positive note, it is a very true statment.
However, it often implies that some one else is doing it out the kindness of their heart.
If someone is on radio or tv, they are after the money.
Example: Ann Coulter,I know a right wing nut without a regular show, who will show up and say something guaranteed to upset at least half of the country. She freely admits that the more you talk about her the more books she sells.
PMom…errrr, MaidMerion,
I’m fully aware that Rush Limbaugh is a business, and as such, he’s out to make a profit. Thank God we live in a country where one can work and earn a profit, huh?
If the sponsors on Rush’s show convince me to buy something from them via quality advertising, then I call that good business – not fleecing.
“Fleece” (noun) to deprive of money or belongings by fraud, hoax, or the like; swindle.
Nathan,
First of all, there’s a huge difference between “sound bites” and “talking points.”
Second, Headline News repetitive sound bites are for the convenience of viewers on the go, not because they have nothing better to say.
Thirdly, Rush’s _talking_points_, on the other hand, are repetitive because he has nothing better to say.
And, Proud Man, I am NOT out of work… There is a difference of being between Calls, and out of work… Cant you get that through your head???
Not just you but the rest of you bloggers who seem to take some kind of joy at poking fun at somebody who disagrees with you many times???
Haranguing tirades do not make for in-depth analysis. Seeking out only what you want to hear does not result in an informed opinion. This is true no matter which side of the political spectrum we all inhabit.
And if Conservative radio is so thoughtless and just full of sound bites, then why:
1. Do the Socialist Liberal Democrats want to censor talk radio using the “Fairness Doctrine”?
2. Why is Rush/Hannity the #1 and #2 most listened to talk radio shows in America?
Nothin to fear, but sound bites, afterall…
Hank, Air America, not even sure where to tune into that. I’d listen to it once for a try.
I certainly would NOT want Air America, Rush, or any other radio/TV show CENSORED by our wunnerful Government.
Free Speech people, what do you have to fear from that?
The truth, perhaps scares some.
Those that say Rush is repetitive or that he only has “talking points” – have obviously never listened to Rush.
Umm Nuttie??? just curious… but what would you call Rush’s infamous “stack of stuff” if not talking points??? Is it a matter of definition??? Maybe??
Rush really should thank the Clintons for making him millions off people who continue to this day to support him.
Rush made the Clintons the big bad boogeyman for all Republicans to have something to feel superior to. And during all this time, Rush has had how many divorces? He admitted his Oxycontin addiction but on the streets that is called ‘being a druggie’ but since it is Rush it is only called an addiction and he spends a few days in rehab.
Money talks and bullshit walks.
But the height of all hyprocrisy is when Christian Conservatives worship Rush because he is telling the truth?
As I stated before, Rush has used the idealogy of a select group feeling superior to others not allowed in their group. This is much how the mega churches have become so huge in the last few decades. Some charismatic preacher pats all the do-gooders on their pointy little heads and they line up to give the preacher their money and undying loyalty without one doubting question coming to their minds.
I am a Christian also, KSGolfnut and in my Bible it tells the story of the only time Jesus lost his temper was when he ran the vendors out of the temple. I see alot of vendors in these so-called mega churches and very little worshiping of the true God. Rush is only tapping into the smugness of these people and turning himself into quite a little industry worth millions.
Chas,
Kind of like any other major media outlet?
They all have talking points they go over.
“I suppose Headline News? There is nothing but a bunch of sound bites repeated over and over again…”
NOW you’re getting it, Nathan! You won’t find any substance on talk radio OR “CNNESPNABCBCTNT… but mostly B.S.” (courtesy of Michael Franti).
Yea, I would agree with that Nathan… ALL of them do…
I am not P-Mom – Nuttie. And if you call Rush’s advertising quality, then why can the same not be said about the network news that all Conservatives constantly deride as being liberal biased?
And of course America is the place one can make a profit but, again, if all you ever listen to is one show like Rush, then you are limiting yourself to quite a narrow version – aren’t you?
Why is it okay for a Republican to make a profit but not a Democrat? Could you please explain that?
Maidmarion,
“I see alot of vendors in these so-called mega churches and very little worshiping of the true God.”
Which “mega-church” are you talking about?
How many have you been to, which ones, where, and what were they doing to make you say what you are saying?
And who started calling them “Slogans?”
Nathan, I can name a few of them, but you probably wont accept what I would type… So, I dont think it’s worth the effort…
PMom/Maid,Please show me where I said it wasn’t ok for a democrat to make a profit.
Thanks.
OK Nuttie… MaidMarion already SAID she is not PMom… Knock off the wise A** routine, eh??
Chas,I know who she is.
Chas,
You can’t even name your own denomination…
“NOW you’re getting it, Nathan! You won’t find any substance on talk radio OR “CNNESPNABCBCTNT… but mostly B.S.” (courtesy of Michael Franti).”
Actually, I’ll back away from this a tiny bit. Michael Ware and Christine Amanpour at CNN have being doing real journalism. . . if you can catch them between the Tabloid Story Of The Day.
Nathan, dont start with that CRAP again… I told you before, You have NO NEED to know my denomination…. So, stop badgering the point…
Reading the comments from the Libs, I can now understand why they like CNN. ;)
You got that right Rage… Christiane did a WONDERFUL job on her series this week!! Absolutely fantastic!!
Nathan,
There are nutjobs in this city who conduct protests at the churches of those with whom they disagree. Why should Chas expose his congregation to that kind of harassment? Just to satisfy some quixotic curiosity you have? Perhaps _you_ want to protest his congregation?
Or do you think he’s being dishonest? Is that it, Nathan? If it is, why don’t you just come out and call him a liar, instead of badgering him into revealing personal information about his place of employment?
Tom and Chas,
I think Chas is full of crap when he says:
“Nathan, I can name a few of them, but you probably wont accept what I would type… So, I dont think it’s worth the effort…”
“I see alot of vendors in these so-called mega churches and very little worshiping of the true God.”
Which “mega-church” are you talking about?
How many have you been to, which ones, where, and what were they doing to make you say what you are saying?
Posted by: Nathan |
Let’ see…where to begin….
Pat Robertson routinely sells his crap on television for so-called donations. Jerry Falwell had many business ventures in which he sold his crap also for so-called donations. And how many other television preachers are hawking their stuff?
And there is at least one church in town here that has public concerts where they sell tickets and yet this is not considered a business? Why is it fair to the entertainment businesses in town that have to pay taxes on their earnings when some church on N Rock Road can sell tickets to their concerts and that is tax free money?
There are churches who are in the business of selling homes/duplexes in their little gated communities. Again, why is this considered a church activity and not business commerce?
It is not fair to the rest of the business owners when churches have their own little business sidelines set up under the guise of a church?
Why do you support such obvious business ventures when the Bible clearly states that is not the purpose of the church?
Cute, GS. But if you read the article, you would have noticed that there was mention of a breakdown by geographical location, just as there was a breakdown between male and female. It didn’t go into depth, but it was mentioned…at least when I read the same article 2 or 3 days ago. Did the WE edit and shorten it?
Tom, he ask about denomination; not congregation. Now for a small denomination that might be the one and the same but they are different most of the time.
Nathan, a question: leaving opinion-babble (Rush, Air America, whatever), and tabloid bites (Anna Nicole Ritchie Hilton Spears goes to rehab/jail), what would YOU consider to be “hard journalism”?
No sarcasm. A question.
Hud,
If Chas names the denomination, finding the congregation is a fast piece of work, particularly if he’s affiliated with a church with few congregations in the Wichita area.
I don’t blame him for protecting his privacy here. There have been threats made against bloggers in the past.
Hank,
I have a question. I know you read a lot, and the article brought up, as stated here, that men tend to read more nonfiction than fiction. I’m curious as to the balance of your reading. Do you feel you’re more a nonfiction reader?
Your reply will not be used against you in any way. :)
Nathan,
You didn’t answer the questions I asked. You answered something about mega-churches, a conversation I have no interest in.
Why do you want Chas to expose his identity, and that of his congregation, on this blog? Are you accusing him of lying?
KsGolfnut – I have told you before that I am not P-Mom but yet you insist that you know more than me or anyone else.
If you’re such a good Christian – then you undoubtedly know that pride goeth before the fall.
Pride-smugness=arrogance – pretty much sums up your view of the world.
Nathan wants to know Chas’ denomination because then Nathan will feel superior to Chas if it happens to be not a denomination that Nathan ‘approves’ of.
Christianity has been taking alot of black eyes because of these Christian Conservatives who are too petty and holier-than-thou types.
Not that this has ANYTHING to do with conservative talk radio, but for anyone wanting to know what denominations Chas has preached in before, do a google search for a WE Blog post from a couple of months ago.
Not that it matters. And not that it’s true. Afterall, Chas doesn’t claim to be working full-time with any of them. Not sure why.
OK Nathan… HERE is a “Short List” of Mega Churches… There are MANY more… ALL of them do a HUGE business as vendors of ALL kinds and varieties of materials… tapes, DVD’s, books, music, etc., etc. Note the ABC News note on Saddleback…>>>>
Saddleback Church – CA – Rick Warren – no denomination…ABC News – “ The Purpose Driven Life is the epicenter of a spiritual shockwave taking root across America in unlikely places like offices and university campuses. It has become a movement.”
Church of Joy – Phoenix – ELCA
Oasis of Love – Joel Osteen – Houston – no denomination – basically pentecostal background
John Hagee – San Antonio – self proclaimed “Zionist” – (dont tell Ed) – pentecostal
Trinity Church – Dr. Jeremiah Wright – Chicago – UCC
Willow Creek Church – IL – Gene Appel – non-denominational- Willow Creek has outreach “association churches” all over the country
River Bend Church – Austin, TX – Dr. Gerald Mann, founder – SBC
Crystal Cathedral – CA – Schuller -RCA
Hint — MY credentials are not up for consideration here… It is enough for me to know what those credentials are, and in what denominations I have standing… So, just KNOCK off the STALKING language!!
I am not Nathan and I am not interested in calling Chas. a liar but I am interested in knowing the denomination.
Why? I am glad you ask.
Nathan,Did you even bother to read the two articles linked in the blog entry before attacking Holman?Posted by: Tom | August 25, 2007 at 04:32 AMTom — Does he ever?? LOL :-)Posted by: Chas. | August 25, 2007 at 04:57 AM
Chas. is asking Tom if Nathan reads. That is a good one. Why not ask Nathan?
It is a slam at Nathan. And guess what last in the day Chas. says he wants people to quit slamming people. What a double standard.
Hey, Hud, it’s a legitimate question… Nathan often attacks things before reading links… I have seen it done many times here…
BLOG policy: “we reserve the right to remove any comments that are threatening, libelous, obscene or otherwise objectionable.”
Constant badgering someone about their place of employment, or their company is both threatening, and objectionable…
I have posted here before some of the denominations I have served in… That is plenty…To keep up a constant barrage, is objectionable, and takes on a threatening form, and even a pattern of stalking… SO, please, just KNOCK IT OFF!!!
Chas,
You were the one who introduced yourself as an authority saying you are part of the cleregy.
Only reason I asked.
The part of what Maid Marion said I was challenging and you agreed with was:
“…very little worshiping of the true God”
In addition, I have mentioned on several different occasions that I am, or was, between calls… That is not abnormal, in spite of what a number of the bloggers seem to think… Actually, it is fairly normal, to take a break between calls… It is sometimes referred to as “Self Care” in some denominations…
So, why it is such a big deal to some of you, that a Pastor takes a break between Churches, I have no clue… I have NO reason to be concerned about it, and it is SURELY NONE of anybody’s business on WE Blog!!
SO JUST BACK OFF OF MY PROFESSION…. GET IT???
“Only reason I asked.”
And he has told you repeatedly that he is not going to answer.
Give it a rest.
Chas–
I am the founder of the International Frisbetarian (Frisbeetarian) church. We believe that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof, and you can’t get it down.
I hearby ordain you as a minister in The Flock of The Sacred Orb.
Chas is a frisbetarian now.
Any questions?
Nathan… I was agreeing with you on “talking points” not on what Maid Marion said… Go back upthread and look for yourself, or I can post it here….
Chas,
Don’t introduce your profession as proof of your authority if you don’t want it questioned.
ROFL Rage… Now if I could only get a “Certificate” for that… I would gladly post it on my wall with all of the others… Thanks!!
Well, gee, Nathan, I dont see you asking for credentials from Vaughn Tolle, or GMC, or anybody else on here….
And I presume you would be offended if anybody asked you to PROVE YOU are really a Marine…
So, I think you better just dummy up on that line of thought before you even get started!!!
Nathan — THIS is what I agreed with you on:
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/why-conservativ.html#comment-80598093
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/why-conservativ.html#comment-80598131
Chas,
I freely have answered peoples questions about my being a Marine.
I think most of us know where GMC works and what he does, KFG even threatened to contact his work to turn him in for blogging.
WS Clark has threatened to contact my work to turn me in for threatening his life. ( Even though I never did)
OMG! A Marine. I have lowered my standards again.
But, Nathan, I have never seen you PROVE to anybody that you are IN FACT a Marine…
Now, you asked for a list of Mega Churches…. I posted a list… any questions???
Chas,
MaidMarion said they:
” see alot of vendors in these so-called mega churches and very little worshiping of the true God.”
ONCE AGAIN,
It was this part which I most disagreed with:
“…and very little worshiping of the true God.”
I don’t think selling books about God is some travesty either.
“I freely have answered peoples questions about my being a Marine.”
Yep you have said that numerous times… I have freely stated I am ordained Clergy…. Same thing… What my denomination is, is NONE OF YOUR BUISINESS… since you are on NONE of my Boards or Agencies…. This is a somewhat anonymous Blog… And that is a good thing…
Chas,
I never asked you to PROVE you were in the clergy.
I asked what denomination you are a clergy member of.
Well, who among us can TRULY say who or what the True God is???
That is all a matter of Faith!
Hey p_mom,
I said and I quote:
“I listen to Hannity because he is current and has a wide variety of guests.”
I truly believe Hannity is a conservative. He calls himself a ‘Reagan Conservative’. O’Reilly, on the other hand is a moderate. Some of his positions are conservative, some liberal and many are libertarian.
Yes dear lady, you seem to have a severe reading comprehension problem and you accuse us people of ’smoking something’!
And Rage,
Yes I think Rush Limbaugh is intelligent. Very intelligent! Your anti-Rush tirade provided not one example of why he isn’t.
Hank
“WS Clark has threatened to contact my work to turn me in for threatening his life. ( Even though I never did)”
Lie much, Nathan?
I never said that you threatened my life, little boy.
Grow up.
Well, once again, I will tell you what I have been telling you… MY DENOMINATIONAL AFFILIATION IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!
Maidmarion,
“Why do you support such obvious business ventures when the Bible clearly states that is not the purpose of the church?”
Because they are not obvious busniess ventures, nor do I think it is against the Bibles teachings to have a Christian Band at your church or to sell books about God…
“I asked what denomination you are a clergy member of.”
And for good reason, Chas has told you that he is NOT going to answer that question, Nathan.
Christ.
Truth is that Chas is a gopher wrangler and in it for the thrill of the hunt. :D
Hey p_mom,
I said and I quote:
“I listen to Hannity because he is current and has a wide variety of guests.”
I truly believe Hannity is a conservative. He calls himself a ‘Reagan Conservative’. O’Reilly, on the other hand is a moderate. Some of his positions are conservative, some liberal and many are libertarian.
Yes dear lady, you seem to have a severe reading comprehension problem and you accuse us people of ’smoking something’!
And Rage,
Yes I think Rush Limbaugh is intelligent. Very intelligent! Your anti-Rush tirade provided not one example of why he isn’t.
Hank
My denomination is a part of a Consortium of denominations… we all work together, in supplying our churches with clergy… I have even listed those denominations on this Blog before… We have what we call a Formula for Agreement between the PresbyterianUSA, the United Church of Christ, The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, and the Reformed Church in America…
In addition to those, The UCC and the Disciples of Christ have their own shared ministries programs, as do the Lutherans and the Episcopal Church…
Posted by: chas. | July 24, 2007 at 10:10 AM
Sorry about the double post. Having trouble with my IP so I got a little confused switching over to my neighbor’s wireless to use his IP.
Blog Editor, please remove my own post.
I was being stupid.
Nathan, some of those Mega Churches rake in MILLIONS of $$$ in book sales, and music sales, and “event” sales every year… They have HUGE memberships… Some of them(Saddle Back, and Willow Creek) have entire associations (mini denominations) all across the country… And they get more $$$ from those affiliate churches as well as from the Main congregation…
I could easily see why that might be offensive to some…
E.G., I am fairly certain that Pastor Rick Warren, at Saddleback Church in CA, cannot possibly know his members personally… at least not many of them, when the church boasts 22,000+ members…
Same with the Church of Joy in Phoenix… very large congregation… Lots of $$$$…
Schuller’s Crystal Cathedral TV program brings in an estimated $30 Million per year…
At the height of his power run, Swaggert was bringing in $72 Million per year… LOTS of it comes from sales of Goods and Services…
In other words, they are VERY large business ventures….
I often find myself wondering why the Pastor of a local Church in Saddleback, CA, needs to have his name and picture plastered all over millions of book jackets all over the world… when he has all he can do to serve the needs of his own members, and their missions…
As a pastor with 30+ years service, I would find it totally overwhelming to attempt to shepherd a congregation of 22,000+ members, and consider myself doing an adequate job…
I dont know how those folks do it.
Hey Max,
Air America is channel 167 on XM radio. 168 is Fox talk radio and 166 is right wing talk radio. (We’ve got the bastards surrounded!)
Well, Self Outing… I hope that you are MOST proud of yourself… give the griping little Marine what he wanted…
What a true example of an “enabler” you are… You happy now Nathan???
However…. I still will NOT tell you which one of those is MY denomination!!! ROFL!!!
Blog Editor, please remove my own post. I was being stupid.
Posted by: Self Outing | August 25, 2007 at 02:40 PM=========================
Self Outing — Stupid is certainly one word to describe it… I could probably think of a few others, but it would serve no reasonable purpose….
None of them are Chas.
No one has hired you yet.
Not everybody has XM Radio… Too bad Air America cant get on one of the broadcast stations…
Nathan, you have been enabled to find the denominations of Chas, by Self Outing, who was enabled by:
Chas!
Do you not know how to READ??? I already said I am not UNemployed… I am on what some of you might call a Sabbatical… it is normal to take a leave between Calls…. Now just STOP with your Stupid, juvenile JABS at my profession, and at me as a person!! I cannot believe the audacity of some people on this Blog… You tell them something, and they totally ignore what you say!!!
FOR THE LAST TIME… YOU ALL READ THIS NOW…. I AM NOT UNEMPLOYED…. I AM NOT OUT OF WORK…. I AM ON SABBATICAL!!!
GET IT????
Chas,
Those Pastors running huge churches obviously do not do it alone.
They have a large staff of associate pastors to help them.
I may not like those kinds of churches, I believe in smaller churches which present more of a family community where things are much more personal.
I think churches should break apart when they reach a certain size.
However, those are just my opinions.
I am not going to say that churches who continue to honor God and wroship him with very large congregations are wrong.
GOOD GRIEF… OUT COME THE NIC SWITCHING TROLLS!!!
Now the Blog day is complete!!!
Hey Nathan, who is to say you arent just hiding out, and that you are REALLY AWOL??? Or for that matter, maybe you arent REALLY a Marine at all??? Or maybe you are really sitting somewhere hiding out from the MP’s…. Gee, how does it feel now, Nathan??? Can you prove any of those things are NOT true??? Of course you cant… not here….
So, just KNOCK OFF with your cutesy little games…. I am what I have said I am since I first came on WE Blog…. Nothing has changed….
So just STOP the nonsense!!!
Chas, maybe you wouldn’t create so many enemies if you didn’t personally attack others so much.
It’s like Iraq, if we wouldn’t have attacked them, they wouldn’t hate us so much.
Nathan, I wont say they are “wrong” either… I just dont know how they do it!! And I am not sure it is all that productive… I mean, we have assembly line everything else…
I am not sure we need assembly line in the Church…
Strange for a preacher to be personally attacking others all the time.
Self Outing, If questioning the opinions of others is attacking, then friend, YOU got a big problem with self-understanding…
YOU are the one who keeps on attacking, even after you have been kindly asked to STOP… You are on the edge of being objectionable, if not stalking with your badgering attitude!!
Strange for a preacher to be personally attacking others all the time.
Posted by: Observer from above | August 25, 2007 at 02:55 PM=======================
Why dont you post something that shows that I am attacking anybody PERSONALLY… huh???
Either that, or crawl back under your Troll bridge…
WS Clark,
“WS Clark has threatened to contact my work to turn me in for threatening his life. ( Even though I never did)”
Lie much, Nathan?
I never said that you threatened my life, little boy.
Grow up.
Posted by: WSClark | August 25, 2007 at 02:28 PM
Here is the quote:
In the morning, I will be contacting the Marine Corp about you. You are a sick son of a bitch and this has to stop. Your barely concealed threats do a great disservice to our men and women in the Armed Services. You are a sick young man. Normal people do not make the threats that you have.
God help you, Price. You are in serious need of mental health services.
Really.
This has gone way beyond the joking stage. You need help young man. You are a potential danger to society and I will make sure that the appropriate authorities know about you.
Christ. Get some help before you VTech Wichita!
Posted By WSClark | 4/24/07 11:15 PM
Hey Chas,
If Air America was commercially viable it could get on broadcast stations.
It was originally organized as a not for profit corporation I believe. It immediately began to live up to its charter! Unable to sell commercial time, its donors soon ran out of money.
Hank
Well, I guess thats what they get for organizing as a non-profit… I didnt remember that… but now that you mention it, it does ring a bell…
I’m willing to wager that Chas is not truly a member of the clergy. I have many friends in that profession, and none have his anger management issues.
Guess what, Nathan… Clark never said you threatened his life… at least not in what You just posted… nice try… he just says “threats”
the “threats” are not identified
Yep, you’re right boy. Mr. Clark took a joke and ran it into a full scale pantie wetting tirade. Mention guns and he immediately shits himself.
I’m going to Gander mountain, want me to pick you up?
Pa
“Christ. Get some help before you VTech Wichita!”
And where did I say that you threatened my life, Nathan?
Clue – I didn’t.
I said that you were a jerk for threatening to bring a gun to a social gathering to cause “liberals to wet their pants.”
Chump.
“Mention guns and he immediately shits himself.”
Hank, I have owned guns in the past – as usual – you are just as full of crap as your son.
Chas,
Are you familiar with the Wichita BLOG thread that the pantie wetting liberals took a harmless joke and ran it into a three day hysterical hate fest?
Clark also claimed that he went to the Sheriff’s website and turned Nathan in for comments that should preclude him from getting his CCH license.
Sheesh, what a rube!
Hank,That’s hilarious. I ID’ed WSClark (DA) as a pantie wetting liberal, crybaby, out-of-control anger-management-class-poster-boy long ago.
These actions you describe are not surprising for him…at all.
Gee, nutty, when you cant find anything TRUE to post, you bring on the personal attacks… You know, its not anger… it is a deep frustration with people who cant READ what is put on the page…
I am not angry with conservatives — I get very perplexed with a lot of conservative verbiage…
Additionally, NOBODY is required to put up with the badgering some of you idiots hit me with, just because of MY PROFESSION…. I guess maybe I could start attacking others about their professions… but that wouldnt be proper…
I dont have to fit your preconceived ideas of what it means to be Clergy… Nor do you have to share mine…
THAT is one of the great Freedoms we have in this Country…. Why do you choose to shoot barbs at those YOU disagree with??? And especially a pacifist preacher who has never done ONE THING to harm you or anybody else on this BLOG???
Now, I am asking once again… KNOCK OFF WITH THE JABS at the Clergy… If you attack ME, you attack any other clergy as well… We all have one thing in common… We have all been ordained to do our jobs… no matter what those various jobs might be… And you know what, NOT ONE OF US has to answer to the likes of any of you Clergy Bashers!!!
Basically, you can all just shove it!!!
Sounds familiar Hank.
The Libs tend to take humor and turn it into a threat.
Chas,Thanks for proving my point. You’re no clergy.
Where is the humor?
Hank, I dont think I was on WE Blog at that point… but I know if somebody had posted that they were bringing a gun to a social gathering… I would not have gone to the gathering…
Because I would not think there would be any need for any body to bring a gun to a WE Blog social gathering…
So, without knowing any more than that, I cant say much more… But I can guarantee you that I dont go to social gatherings if I know there will be guns…
Chas, Thanks for proving my point. You’re no clergy.
Posted by: KSGolfnut | August 25, 2007 at 03:15 PM====================
And YOU SIR/Ma’AM, are a bold faced LIAR!!!
Actually, CapnAmerica joked about bringing a gun to the Meetup and not one Liberal leftist said a thing to him.
That was when WSClark went on his three day tirade. I have the blog pages stored somewhere. :)
And gun threats should ALWAYS be taken as a joke, right?
Nice try.
Why would a normal person think that they needed to bring a gun to a social gathering?
Old news, but just as stupid now as it was then.
To repeat my thought from the time – why would I want to attend a social gathering when some one threatened to bring a gun to intimidate me?
And by the way, how did that social gathering go?
Only little boys with issues need to attempt to intimidate with guns.
Whats the matter nutty… You cant take it if a member of the Clergy stands up to your Tirades and totally pointless rants?? So you go after personal attacks??? You havent said one thing on point of anything here yet… Why dont you just go crawl back under your Troll bridge, and SHUT UP!!!
ksgolfnut,
There is another Pastor that posts on the Blog rarely. He is calm, cool, collected, reasonable and mature.
That Pastor sets a very good role model.
“I have the blog pages stored somewhere. :)”
If you have the blog pages stored, you are one weird SOB, Kansas.
WS Clark,
If you claim I was not threatening your life… then what do you mean by intimidate and what threat did you feel from my bringing a gun?
Where you threatened that I would drop it on your toe?
If you didn’t think I was threatening your life, then why was it so serious you contacted the sheriff and threatened to contact my work?
Why is he “one weird SOB” for storing web pages?
“Where you threatened that I would drop it on your toe?”
You were the one that threatened to bring a gun to “make liberals wet their pants.”
Are you dumb enough to think that you would scare me by waving it around?
If you didn’t think I was threatening your life then why compare me to the guy at VT?
You and Chas are playing the word technicality game.
Either way, you clearly threatened to contact my work and claimed to have contacted the sheriff, which was my point.
By the way, I never did get a call from the sheriff and I do have my permit now too.
Guess you failed in your mission to deny me from ever getting one.
Kansas… You know full well, I only get upset when I am attacked on my beliefs, and badgered constantly about what denomination I am in… So, maybe you better re-think what you just said??? And then, there are your constant Ad Hominem comments… that are nothing more or less than Garbage jabs!!
You can shove it too!! But I still hope you get to feeling better soon…
Why did you need to announce that you were bringing a gun for the purpose of intimidation to a social gathering, Nathan?
“Guess you failed in your mission to deny me from ever getting one.”
I guess the Sheriff could care less about folks like you threatening people.
Nathan, Clark did NOT say anything about you threatening his life… Nowhere in that post is that even close… Where are you getting that from??? I have re-read that now three times, and I see nothing where Clark says that you threatened his LIFE… he simply says you were making threats… and he doesnt really say what those threats were…
Now, that is not word technicality… that is exact word search… BIG difference…
WS Clark,
Who was I threatening and what was the threat?
Chas, I was addressing that remark to ksgolfnut.
Sorry Chas, but you can’t tell me what to post or what not to post, especially when it’s to another poster.
paranoid much?
Because they are not obvious busniess ventures, nor do I think it is against the Bibles teachings to have a Christian Band at your church or to sell books about God…
Posted by: Nathan
Then by your logic every book store that also sells books about God and every entertainment business that sells tickets to concerts should be treated like these non-business churches? That means tax-free money from these book sales, DVD sales, CD sales and concert ticket sales.
Is that what you are trying to say?
Why does it bother you so much that my opinion is that these mega churches are more about money and very little about worshiping the true God? Does that point hit a little too close to the ‘heart’ of the matter?
It seems to me like this line is sort of like beating a dead horse… Nathan, I can see where anybody saying they are bringing a gun to a social event could be threatening… As I said, if I knew somebody was taking a gun to a social gathering, I would not go to the event… It wouldnt make me wet my pants, and it wouldnt put me into a debilitating state of fear… I just simply would not go…
ahahaha, chas is maidmarion?
ahahahaha!
roflmao!
A liberal troll has been caught!
LOL!
Now, if I said I was bringing a gun to a social gathering, everybody better skee daddle… cause I wouldnt know what to do with one, if I had it!! ROFL!!!
ahahaha, chas is maidmarion?ahahahaha! roflmao! A liberal troll has been caught! LOL!
Posted by: Kansas | August 25, 2007 at 03:35 PM========================Kansas, once again, YOU SIR ARE A BOLD FACED LIAR… But maybe some things never change!!
Now, THATS a lie you cant even come close to proving with ANY amount of your Ad Hominem JABS!!
Close to proving?
So, you don’t deny it then do you Chas? :)
Yep, you can certainly post anything to KSGolfnut that you want… Just make sure it doesnt have a clouded reference to another blogger… OK??? Ahem…
“Who was I threatening and what was the threat?”
Jeez, Nathan, you must have learned to read at the same school as Rossell.
For the last time – you stated that you would have your CCP by the time of the gathering and you would make the “liberals wet their pants.”
Now why would any adult wet their pants unless they were threatened with deadly force?
Christ.
Kansas, I truly believe you are a full fledged IDIOT… I just told you that you are a BOLD FACED LIAR!!!!! What more do you need??? IF you are a bold faced liar, then in what way am I admitting to being somebody else, than who I am??? Dumbkopf!!
Clouded reference?
Does that mean if I mention the word Pastor on the blog it means you Chas?
I thought you referred to yourself as a minister?
A type 1 psychological profile man of the book – interesting combo.
Basically, you can all just shove it!!!
Posted by: Chas. | August 25, 2007 at 03:11 PM
Sounds like a perplexed preacher to me.
Maid, (or anyone that knows the answer)
1. Is it the church selling the material or is it a another entity doing the selling? Often is is a separate entity not the church getting the money. (Note: I do not mean a different person is getting the money.)
2. Where are you getting the numbers for income? I know I tried to find numbers on one of the churches you listed and could for early years but then they “incorporated” (whatever they call it) and no longer had to give out information.
3. Does the sale of books fall in the non-tax category for a church? If the books or whatever express a political opionion would they not be in violation of the non-profit law?
Kansas, your last comment doesnt even deserve a response… But I will give you one… Anybody with an ounce of brains knows that Pastor, Clergy, Minister, Priest, are all references to the SAME THING, when it comes to the Church… So once again, you show that perhaps you ARE a full fledged Idiot!!
Max… Yep perplexed is a good word… perplexed as to why it is any of YOUR BUSINESS to even make a comment about my professional status…. Do you have business with me, or my church??? Do I owe you any money??? Do you owe me any??? I think not…. So, why not just stay out of matters that dont concern YOU… especially when it comes to other peoples’ professions, vocations, and careers…. eh???
Why do conservatives think people are nic-switching all the time? Is it because they are guilty of the same and think everyone else does it?
Once again and for the final time – I am not Chas or P-Mom. I am my own person and that is why I don’t follow any fat white guy that rants on and on about those liberals or any charismatic preacher that has somehow convinced many people to follow only his teachings.
I am a Christian and I do take offense at these so-called business churches giving Christianity a black eye by their consistent holier-than-thou attitudes towards everyone not of their faith.
My only comment was that Jesus only showed his temper once and that was when business was being conducted in his Temple. Enough said!!!!
ahahaha, chas is maidmarion?
ahahahaha!
roflmao!
A liberal troll has been caught!
LOL!
Posted by: Kansas | August 25, 2007 at 03:35 PM
HUd – good questions and that is what bothers me. Since when does a church need to incorporate?
If one really has to time to research, I wonder how many of our social/moral problems in the country started when churches ceased to be just churches and started to ‘incorporate’ and become businesses?
And if it is a separate entity – is it really separate if the money goes to the church?
For the record, I think the expression is:
Bald Faced Liar.
Hud — Let me try to tackle this one…
1) IF a pastor writes a book, it is published normally by a publisher… sometimes they are self-published… IF the proceeds go directly to the author, then it would be in the category of personal income… If the book would be published by the Church he/she serves, then it might be considered non-taxable income… but could still be pastors personal income, if the Church gave him a commission on the sale of the books…
2) Church records (income, etc.) are considered to be documents open to the public… The figures I listed came off of TV news sources, and are outdated as far as I know… Those numbers were from a number of years ago… For example, Swaggert is not bringing in nearly as much now, as before his “slide” out of the good graces of the Church…
3)If the books sold were backing a particular “Candidate” or other ballot “issue” that would be questionable for their tax exempt status… If the books sold are NOT backing candidates… but yet political in nature, and they were for the General Fund of the Church, then they would still be tax exempt… like a bake sale, or chili supper, or any other fund raiser… I am not sure about things such as concert tickets… If the church is rented out for a concert, then any commission from such sales would be taxable — as I understand it… Only had that problem come up one time… and we used our church lawyer to solve the issue for us… So, I didnt have to deal with it directly…
Hope that helps a little… :-)
Are you dumb enough to think that you would scare me by waving it around?
Posted by: WSClark | August 25, 2007 at 03:26 PM
I guess the Sheriff could care less about folks like you threatening people.
Posted by: WSClark | August 25, 2007 at 03:31 PM
I can see why the Sheriff didn’t take Clark’s report as being credible.
Maid Marion… It is generally a good idea for a Church to incorporate… especially if they are non-denominational… it is for purposes of establishing their tax exempt status as a Church… Most churches ARE incorporated… for the sake of legal issues that can arise, even for insurance purposes…
Jeez, who do ya think the “Wise Owl” is?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm, three guesses, the first two don’t count.
The main reason to incorporate is to protect individuals employed by the church from liability.
With all the child molesting preachers, pastors, and priests out there, the corporate veil does provide some legal liability protection.
It’s bald-faced. A bald-faced liar tells a bald-faced lie. I realise that this is at first glance the less logical of the two alternatives you offer, but it is indeed the correct one. Bald-faced means blatant, undisguised – so not concealed in any way.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/37/messages/992.html
“If one really has to time to research, I wonder how many of our social/moral problems in the country started when churches ceased to be just churches and started to ‘incorporate’ and become businesses?” – Maid Marion=======================
That is a good question… Let me put it this way… In the early part of the 20th Century(even late 19th Century) the churches began what I call “abdicating” from their social responsibilities… They began closing schools, and hospitals, and women’s shelters, and orphanages, and soup kitchens, and gradually turning all of those things over to the State to take care of… Most likely, many churches/denominations just felt too overwhelmed by the sheer numbers… especially after the 1929 Crash and Depression Era was in full swing…
As far as incorporation, some local churches dont need incorporation, if they are part of an incorporated denominational body… But, for those who have what is termed local autonomy, it is more important… tax exempt status… insurance purposes… property ownership and taxation… among other things, more or less forced congregations to incorporate…
Insurance — IF a church is not incorporated, and there is an accident, each individual member could be sued separately for liability… But if incorporated, the members are part of the corporation, and not liable to individual law suits…
Taxation… Churches are required to file tax exempt status with the State, Local, and Federal… IF the church is independent, and non-denominational, the process is different from a congregation that is part of an already exempt denomination… But even then, there is a filing process that is necessary…
Hope that helps some… :-)
Or maybe barefaced liar is best.
A Bald-faced, Bold-faced, Barefaced LiarToday’s post will serve as a disambiguation of sorts—for myself if for no one else!
I know that in my own writing I have referred to people as “bald-faced” liars or “bold-faced” liars. Well, late last night I learned that the grammatically proper descriptor for this type of liar is actually “barefaced.” Interesting, huh?
Let’s get one of my English-related pet peeves out of the way first, though. It rankles me mightily whenever I read someone’s weblog or online comment and the author refers to a person as a “lier” instead of a “liar.” Yuk. Certainly I can see the individual’s line of reasoning: A man or woman lies; that is to say, speaks an untruth. Consequently, he or she must be a lier. *cringe*
On the other hand, I still find my teeth set on edge involuntarily whenever I see this particular misspelling. The correct spelling is l-i-a-r, folks. One of my favorite comedies, in point of fact, is Jim Carrey’s 1997 classic Liar Liar. And for completeness, the Oxford English Dictionary defines the noun liar as “one who lies or tells a falsehood; an untruthful person.”
[A parenthetical note for those Emersonians in my readership: the noun lier does indeed exist; the word means "one who lies down; one who rests or remains, as in concealment."]
Now then: let’s get to discussing the distinction between the bald, the bold, and the bare. First up we have Professor Paul Brians, who holds that the “barefaced” usage is the most appropriate:
The only one of these spellings recognized by the Oxford English Dictionary as meaning “shameless” is “barefaced.” Etymologies often refer to the prevalence of beards among Renaissance Englishmen, but beards were probably too common to be considered as deceptively concealing. It seems more likely that the term derived from the widespread custom at that time among the upper classes of wearing masks to social occasions where one would rather not be recognized.
Dr. Brians is correct with respect to his OED citations. The participial adjective bold-faced is defined by the OED as “Having a bold or confident face or look; usually impudent.” The adjective bald-faced is described by the OED simply as “having a bald face.” The adjective barefaced is explained by the OED as “with the face uncovered: hence with no hair on the face, beardless, whiskerless.”
Playing devil’s advocate, I can see how the aforementioned definitions for bold-faced and bare-faced could be shoehorned into service idiomatically. To this end, let’s have a look at the following piece from Merriam-Webster Online, which allows for all three usages:
He wanted to know if an out-and-out liar is more properly called a bold-faced liar or a bald-faced liar.
The truth is this: both are used, and so is barefaced. Bald-faced is the newest term; its first known print appearance dates back only 62 years, to 1943. Bold-faced is some four centuries older than that, dating to 1591. Although you might guess bald-faced developed out of a mishearing of bold-faced, the meanings of the two adjectives are not synonymous. Bold-faced means “bold in manner or conduct; impudent”; bald-faced has the same meaning as barefaced: “open; unconcealed”; and “having or showing a lack of scruples.”
Barefaced is one year older than bold-faced; its first print appearance dates to 1590. But the original meaning of barefaced was literal: it meant “having the face uncovered,” either “beardless” or “wearing no mask.” Not surprisingly, folks using the word barefaced were open to shifting the adjective into the metaphoric realm: barefaced soon came to describe something “unconcealed or open”; and then something “showing or having a lack of scruples.”
Now, as many of you know, I’m nothing more than an amateur linguist. Accordingly, I defer to the experts at the American Dialect Society (many of whom are not American, incidentally). In the hyperlinked thread I provided, you’ll see that those folks provide references for the barefaced liar usage that date back to the early 19th century.
The fact that the Eggcorn Database contains entries for bold-faced and bald-faced lends credence to my argument that barefaced is probably the most grammatically sound adjective when we label an individual a “teller of untruths.”
Point well taken Wise Owl…
Therefore, Kansas, You are hereby released from being a bold faced liar… and now you are a BALD FACED LIAR….
as well as the other one upthread I said the same of…
Thanks hooty!!
well, at least bald-faced is the second oldest usage LOL
So now all republicans cain’t read? They listen to da talk radeo cauz they be 2 dumb to think and read?
Well I be smart enough to know a racist when I hear one (cause I couldn’t have read the above).
Pat Schroeder is a socialist. She single-handedly screwed the military out of their military pensions by requiring that divorced spouses receive HALF the money during divorce. At the time she said it was ground breaking for society and would be followed by the private sector.
Still waiting for John Deere Tractor, GM, Ford, Dell, or any of the other private corporations of America to follow suit.
Give divorced wives half their men’s retirement and watch how fast the lawsuits fly.
Pat was a foundational socialist on the democratic ticket. She will be remembered well in the new United Socialist States of America.
Cain’t read, don’t read, my ass.
Chase, Maid:
Let me try it this way. (I am not trying to be pro or con on this it just gets confusing.)
John HageeChurch on TV: Cornerstone ChurchOn the Internet: JHM (John Hagee Ministries
Now Maid would call this a Big-Money church. I think she is calling is short.
There is no financial info on Cornerstone Church. Not because of incorporation (suprise right) but because it does not exist. The place is incorporated under another name.
Books and such are sold by JHM; not the church. Books are advertised on the Church TV Show.
Pastor John lives in a house on a ranch with a price tag well over $1M; did I mention he paid cash. I could not find out if he owned the ranch or if the church or JHM owns the ranch.
I can tell there is a lot of money envolved. And pastors make a heck of lot of money.
And now for the rest of the story about this poll of Pat’s:
Here is what AP did not report:
The sampling included 46 percent Democrats, only 38 percent Republicans;
The self-identified conservatives represented 36 percent, to 25 percent liberals;
Strong conservatives numbered 14 percent vs. 6 percent strong liberals.Now, let me ask you which news story you think is more significant – that liberals say they read one more book than conservatives in the last year or that conservatives outnumber liberals 36 to 25 percent even among heavily Democratic Party samplings?
This is why I say the next prez election will tell the story.
Sorry ksgrm, I couldn’t read that very well. I’m a conservative.
Can you explain that to me?
Ya, I knew that polls wasn’t the most credible. Thanks KSgrm for providing the supporting facts.
Thanks Hud… that is one point I forgot to note… You are quite right about John Hagee… and there are others besides him… The “Church” really exists in name only… being incorporated under some other name… And yes, Hagee makes a LOT of money… But trust me when I tell you, your average local pastor in this city, and in most cities, does NOT make a lot of money… Hagee(and his team) obviously does a very good job on hiding the true sources of income/revenue…
My highest annual income, before taxes, was $42,000 including housing allowance/pension contribution/mileage/health insurance/meeting expenses/and vacation time… My actual Cash Salary was approx. $21,000
I have a beard, so I’m not a bald-faced liar. :)
Fine Kansas… I figured you would have a comment… So, in that case, you are just a plain LIAR….
How much should a pastor be paid?For ministering to the flock for God, is there an established threshold? Does a preacher who prepares and gives the best sermon, make the higher salary?How do you judge, or do an appraisal on a reverend? The bigger the flock, the fastest growing flock gets more dough?
The smart preachers, the more qualified, educated, and experienced make more?
I’m not plain either.
Hemorrhoid: That is largely dependent on the denomination… most have basic salary scales for various size congregations, number of years of service by the Pastor, plus other incentives… After that, it becomes negotiable between the pastoral candidate and the Call Committee and the Church Board/Council/Vestry
Prove that I lied. :)
Now you are nit picking kansas… You posted a LIE, and that makes you a LIAR!!! just admit it and move on!!
Prove it.
Like I said, every denomination has a different set of Salary Guidelines… AT the time I was serving that congregation that was an adequate salary package… As of now, it would probably be a bit on the low side… but still, all salries are negotiable… and it is a good congregation that offers raises on an annual basis…
I have personally had a career path of serving a number of financially challenged congregations, in numerous states… the idea is to go into those situations and build them up again… So far, it has been working pretty good… :-)
If you examine Sunday and Saturday posting times, Chas does not spend much time in any church, unless of course he is posting from the church computer while sermons are conducted in the main sanctuary. :)
Most churches affiliated with a mainline denomination (such as Methodist, Baptist, Disciples of Christ, United Church of Christ, Episicopal, Presbyterian, etc.) have regional salary guidelines. The more experience a minister has and the larger the congregation served, the higher the salary range will be.
Churches prepare annual budgets and factor in salaries of all employees and the minister, as well as building maintenance, benevolence, outreach to the community, etc. In that respect they run about like a regular business. It’s not just a matter of giving the collection plate offerings to the pastor.
By the way, a minister is usually only called “reverend” if he/she has graduated from an established seminary and has been ordained in a denomination. If he/she has not graduated from a seminary, then they should be addressed as “pastor.”
One more note: A person who attends seminary takes about as many credit hours as someone going to medical school or law school but they graduate and usually make a whole lot less money than a doctor or lawyer!
“If he/she has not graduated from a seminary, then they should be addressed as “pastor.”"
Actually, the term “Rev.” is normally used only in Writing, or in print… and then like so: The Rev. John Smith, PastorSome churches list The Rev. John Smith, Minister (on sign boards)..A Pastor should NOT be normally addressed as Rev., since it is aa term used for printed reference.However, many people still call their Pastor, Rev. _______(insert name)
Not sure where you found that LP. But having been there for nearly 30 years as Ordained, I am fairly familiar with our terms :-)
NOTE: The term Pastor has nothing to do with Seminary graduation…
If not a seminary grad, then normally not ordained… then a Licensed Lay Minister, or a Certified Lay Pastor, or a Parish Ministry Associate… Depending on what the denomination calls non ordained pastors…
Sounds like another deadbeat non-ordained pastor I know, who lives in his ex-girlfriends house and keeps dodging the IRS and other collectors.
Chas is clearly not a pastor.
They’re not called ‘ditto heads’ for nothing.
Anyone who thinks liberal talk is dull (okay, so I almost hit a light pole while listening to Mario Cuomo one Saturday afternooon) should watch James Barfield on Wednesday nights.
Golf, you really think you are smart don’t you?
You’re not.
Actually pmom, I think ksgolfnut hit it right on the money.
I’ve looked at Saturday and Sunday blogs when Chas, the Minister should be in Church.
He is not in Church, but here posting, with posts from early, early morning and again all through normal church times.
Evidently, he doesn’t think church attendance is important enough for him to go, even if it is to be inspirational to the congregation.
I think ksgolfnut has it exactly right about Chas.
I always have to wonder why in current times some of these preachers and the doctors are the highest paid people. But in the good old days, the doctor and the preacher were usually the least paid. The doctor usually took food as payment and the preacher took the hand me downs and left overs from his congregation.
After all, shouldn’t these two professions be seen as being of service to their fellow mankind?
Too many churches today are wrapped up in making money, meeting their multi-million dollar budgets and building their prestigious huge buildings on the prime real estate in the city. Where is the true worship of God in all that mad race for money? Can a church really be successful in being a testimony to God through their amount of money they have or how big their buildings are?
Doesn’t the Bible warn about the love of money being evil? Doesn’t the Bible warn about the rich man having trouble getting into Heaven? I am just questioning how any money-driven church can be truly a church of worship.
As for churches having to incorporate, if that is just for liability purposes, then wouldn’t that be handled under their property insurance?
I don’t remember churches during my childhood (50’s and 60’s) being businesses. But there was more respect for churches back then too. Perhaps the lack of respect is due to the current church leaders’ lack of moral leadership???
He is not in Church, but here posting, with posts from early, early morning and again all through normal church times.
Evidently, he doesn’t think church attendance is important enough for him to go, even if it is to be inspirational to the congregation.
I think ksgolfnut has it exactly right about Chas.
Posted by: Kansas
And who made you judge, jury and executioner? Who are you to be judging anybody about attending church? I’ve noticed both of blog on Sundays also – so do you not attend church???
I blog on Sundays after church services.
Kansas, you’re in no position to be remarking about Chas’s job. Really. I’d have never guessed that you leave the house by how much you post here too. I do it as well, and I know what I can get done in the times between posts.
“I’ve been a caller on the Neal Boortz show three times. I was moved to the head of the line because I disagreed with the host”
Where you were no doubt ridiculed, abused and hung up on. Of all the idiots on the AM band, he is among the worst. And he cannot hold a logical argument for long which is why he hangs up on opponets. Probably why he didn’t cut it as a lawyer either. In court you cannot cut off the opposing counsel’s mic. BTW this is the same idiot that wrote a book telling us why a national sales tax of 23% should replace the income tax. I guess he thinks we are stupid enough to say “oh, let’s not make the rich pay any taxes but let’s tax the poor people’s food at 23% plus state and local sales taxes”.
“Boortz or Limbaugh strikes the tuning fork, and conservatives who resonate to the frequency gather round to hear the vibrations. Along about election time, Savage or Medved will bring out a finer tuning fork and a dog whistle for conservatives. This combination makes them howl all the louder.”
I love to call Michael Savage just to rile him up and hear his blood boiling on the air!
That is obvious. When was the last KKK meeting at Barnes and Noble?
Huh??
Chas is clearly not a pastor.
Ignore him Chas, he’s a legend in his own mind.
Chas is clearly not a pastor.
Posted by: KSGolfnut | August 25, 2007 at 10:35 PM=========================
YOU BIGOTED LIAR!!! What kind of nuts you got Golf nut??? Golf Balls???
PMom — I wasnt even HERE on the Blog, and they keep up the attacks!!! This is extremely close to being harrassment and stalking!! I think I shall report them to WEBlog…
My uncle, before he died was an Ordained Minister for since 1948 for almost 60 years of Pastoring.
I’ll never forget his words to me when I got lazy in the Air Force and stopped going to Sunday Services.
He said, “You know, in my years as a Minister, I have yet to miss a Sunday Service except the time I was in surgery, when my youngest child was born and when the wind blew over the chicken coop.”
We both laughed, but it left an impression.
Sabbatical or not, a man of true faith does not forsake the Lord on Sundays. It is after all, one of the ten Commandments.
Kansas, nice story.
Chas, you’re not a pastor. Admit it, and we’ll all move on.
It wasn’t until the rise of the Christian Fundamental Right that I saw so much hatred toward other denominations. Why is it that fundamental Christians have to feel superior to everyone else? Is it some inferior complex deep within their psyche?
These people all rant and rave as to how they are so persecuted but yet they are usually the ones doing the intimidating and questioning others’ faith and if they are indeed a pastor.
Chas, you’re not a pastor. Admit it, and we’ll all move on.
Posted by: KSGolfnut | August 25, 2007 at 10:43 PM========================
YOU ARE A SHAMELESS BIGOT!! AND YOU ARE A BLATANT LIAR, AND A WEBLOG STALKER…. WHY DONT YOU JUST STUFF IT!!! I AM WAY PAST TIRED OF YOU AND YOUR ALL DAY TIRADES AGAINST ME AND MY PROFESSION…. AND YOU AND KANSAS HAVE BOTH BEEN REPORTED TO THE EAGLE AUTHORITIES!!!! AND I HOPE THEY TAKE YOU DOWN A FEW NOTCHES…. YOU ARE BOTH GOOD CANDIDATES FOR THE HITLER GOON SQUAD!!! THATS ALL YOU ARE GOOD FOR!!
YOU DONT LIKE IT??? DONT START WHAT YOU CANT FINISH!!!
KANSAS… I TAKE IN A LIVE CHURCH SERVICE EVERY SUNDAY… WHETHER I AM THE OFFICIANT, OR NOT… SO JUST STUFF YOUR SUPERIOR ATTITUDES AND YOUR SELF RIGHTEOUS WEAK MIND… NOBODY LIKES IT… NOBODY!!!
Doesn’t matter Chas, you forsake the Lord and Saturdays or Sundays.
So, unless you belong to some weird Thursday is Sabbath denomination, then you are as what ksgolfnut says you aren’t.
Wow, that was an awkward statement, but I kind of like it. :0
Isn’t it nice to see KsGolfnut praising the postings of Kansas? It seems all too convenient for it not to be one and the same posting.
One never knows Maid Marion… One just never knows!! Ealier, they said you and I are the same person… ROFL!!!
Yea, Kansas, I can see where you might like something awkward… It fits your personality to a T
Chas, truly, they do this stuff on purpose just to get you riled up. Others know the truth. Screw them.
It does not matter how many times you go to church Kansas. The Bible states God is anywhere there are two or more in my name. That leaves your logic with alot of loopholes – doesn’t it?
Why do you feel the need to feel superior to everyone else that you deem unacceptable? Wow is that what you learn at your church? Not very Christian-sounding to me. You must belong to one of those weird denominations???
PMom — I am beyond riled up… ALL day long this kind of BS… I think its cause they dont want to address the subject of this thread, which obviously they cant find any links to disprove, so, this is how they act… sounds like some weird kind of withdrawal…. LOL
THIS IS NOT A PLACE FOR YOUR DAMNED CRAP!!! WHY DONT YOU GO FIND YOU A NEW PAIR OF CRUTCHES OR SOMETHING!!!
Posted by: Chas. | August 25, 2007 at 10:52 PM
A true Christian Minister would never write such statements about someone with disabilities and certainly wouldn’t use swearing.
You are as ksgolfnut says you aren’t.
Why do you feel the need to feel superior to everyone else that you deem unacceptable? Wow is that what you learn at your church? Not very Christian-sounding to me. You must belong to one of those weird denominations???
Posted by: maidmarion | August 25, 2007 at 10:54 PM
We are to treat false prophet with extreme vile and pray to the Lord they they be cast down. They will lead the world to death.
they they = that they
Ohh geez…. The mental illness starts to show up… I knew that was it… And Kansas, I will talk about an old cripp any way I want, as long as you continue to disrespect my profession… Turn about is fair play… it has nothing to do with my profession…. it is called being HUMAN…… And you have already passed the limits of decency long ago!!!
Now the idiot prays for my death… Yea, some Christianity that is Kansas… You must belong to Pat Robertson’s kind of church… I am finished with you and your little buddies….
Kansas — When you disrespect me like you are doing all day today, you disrespect the hundreds of Marriage Ceremonies I have ever officiated… and the hundreds of funeral services I have ever preached… and every Sacrament of Holy Communion I have ever Consecrated… and all of the Baptisms I have presided over…
I hope that makes you feel VERY proud of yourself, and ohh soooo superior….
Make you wonder what you might have made out of your life, if you really wanted to???
Hmmmm?????
You don’t have to answer to me Chas.
But you better be doing some close examination with the Lord if you are to get back in the right with him.
You appear to have a long long way to go.
Shoot I knew a real minister that regularly used the F word.
My guess is Chas, you want no part of his religion. You’re actually a decent person. Consider the things these two advocate- you know the difference. I’m sorry that Golf is a Methodist, as methodists usually aren’t neocons. Perhaps golf would feel more at home in Terry Fox’s org.
Thats normal Kansas Ignore what I say, and post your HATE SPEECH… you will get yours!!
Chas,It’s already clear that you’re no pastor. Now, you have PMom “on your side”
Your troubles have just begun.
Hey, Kansas, why shouldnt I treat you like the Demon Fodder that you so blatantly prove today that you are??? One of my unique things to do in life is to disperse Demons when I find them… It is a rare thing, especially in protestant circles… But I seriously think YOU might be one of those rare demons… So, I cast you and your kind OFF of this blog… Your disrespect for ME, and for religion…. the mockery you make of quoting religious texts… That is all DEMONIC activity… And I call you out — And cast out your vitriolic hatred!!
Be gone, Devils!!!
Kansas, you and a lot of people I’ve met in my life, have a personality that mirrors Cartman from SouthPark.
Very Scary.
Well Chas,
What Nathan posted was obviously a joke. In fact, the only guns brought to a BLOG meeting were brought to a previous one by. . . .are you ready?. . . .A LIBERAL POSTER!
Anyway, that’s what I heard.
Nathan and I have guns. We have a CCH. Sometimes we carry our guns. Perfectly legal, perfectly safe. If you don’t want to come to a social gathering that has licensed CCH people in attendance then I would recommend hiding in stores and restaurants that have that little gun symbol on the door.
Or as we CCH people call those places, “killing grounds”.
Hank
Good night all.
BTW, Chas – In Wichita, Church Services start anywhere from early service at 0730 clear up until 1 pm on Sundays.
You really should attend.
heh Hank
And so it goes… the demons come out in full force… You all have fun… The joke is on YOU all!!
Kansas I hope your DEMONS keep you up ALL NIGHT for your acrid display of disrespect… You deserve NO honor from anybody… You arent worthy of any honor… for anything!! You are totally worthless to the life blood of this planet…
Holy One, Let my prayers rise before you as incense… And may the Demons of the WE Blog be cast down to the bottom of the Pit!!
And may God bless, whatever you conceive God to be!!
I see the schoolyard bullies are in full force tonight and have even added to their numbers.
BTW Kansas… Ahole… I tend to prefer listening to Rev. Gardner every week, over at 1st United Methodist… at least when I am in town…. or else Pastor Dave, at St. Paul’s…
Outta here at 12:29 a.m.
What a bunch of Cripps and losers… When will they ever learn???
Because you DESERVE to be forsaken!! GO AWAY!!!!
I have asked you to stop the personal attacks several times… Now I am TELLING you to stop the attacks… Any further attacks will be sent to WE Blog immediately… Thank you…
Hank, if there is a WE Blog meeting, and I know you will be there with your guns, be sure I will not be there… I dont have much use for guns… never owned one… dont intend to… If you think you need to CCH at a social gathering, I guess I feel sort of sorry for you… But, as you say, it is legal…. Have fun with your gun totin friends!!
I guess I would feel sorry for the Liberal blogger that felt a need for CCH as well… tsk tsk tsk… so this is what the world is coming to… how long, O Lord?
nite all 12:59 AM
Chas,
You are a sheep.
I would start practicing how to say “BA” if you are ever confronted by someone who wants to do you or your family harm.
Shouldn’t Golfnut be somewhere sleeping with someone else’s wife right now?
The more CCH holders around, the safer I am!
Course they are concealed, so you never know for sure, unless you know someone personally and you exchange the secret signal.
Notice how many posters were gone when kansas was away? curious, and curioser.
Indeed, but accusing without proof is pointless. And it IS possible that Kansas just draws out like-minded psychos (Golfnut, at least, we know is real–I hear he was at the last meetup).
I’ve got work to catch up on, but later in the week, I’ll suggest a course of action to the old-timers via email.
We’ll see.
P.S. Chas, you really shouldn’t let them get to you like that. I think most discerning people are unlikely to be swayed by such nonsense. Just My Opinion®.
Good morning! And BTW thank you to the two who read my post… Jury?
Wow! The Libs are actually organized!
And they still blow gaskets!
“I’ve got work to catch up on, but later in the week, I’ll suggest a course of action to the old-timers via email.
We’ll see.
P.S. Chas, you really shouldn’t let them get to you like that. I think most discerning people are unlikely to be swayed by such nonsense. Just My Opinion®.”
Posted by: Rage | August 26, 2007 at 04:29 AM
Organized?? Hehe, Mr. H, that might be overstating it a bit!