Several noncommissioned officers returning from a 15-month stint in Iraq are challenging recent arguments that the "surge" is turning the tide of the Iraq war — a viewpoint they call "surreal":
"To believe that Americans, with an occupying force that long ago outlived its reluctant welcome, can win over a recalcitrant local population and win this counterinsurgency is far-fetched. As responsible infantrymen and noncommissioned officers with the 82nd Airborne Division soon heading back home, we are skeptical of recent press coverage portraying the conflict as increasingly manageable and feel it has neglected the mounting civil, political and social unrest we see every day," they wrote in a New York Times op-ed.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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70 Comments
Hope they have their 20 in. Bushies aren’t at all forgiving.
Dennis,
Indeed. As is often said, the Bushes learn nothing and forget nothing.
And telling, isn’t it, to see the lack of purchase the Op-Ed has received in the corporate media, particulalry in contrast to reception accorded to O’Hanlon and Pollack’s “Dude, the surge ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!” story of a couple weeks back.
I have no problem with several noncommisioned officers stating whatever they want. I am unsure of the newsworthiness of it. I am sure that I can find just as many with an opposing view.
In considering the Op-Ed linked above, I came to the conclusion that the authors were saying the same thing as General Petraeus has been reported as saying; namely, that military action will only go so far in providing security to Iraq, and that real security depends upon the settlement of the various political issues extant within the country. That they take some exception to the O’Hanlon and Pollack op-ed is of no surprise, given the subsequent reporting of the way those two did their fact-gathering during the eight day stay in Iraq. These members of the 82nd Airborne are in the area of Baghdad, as I understand it, all day every day, and see and hear things that must influence their thinking.
I must commend the authors on the high level of authorship contained in the op-ed.
Lets see here- soldiers who say what the deafeatocrats want to hear are brilliant sages. Soldiers who say what the deafeatocrats don’t want to hear are tools of the military/administration propoganda machine.
I see.
I haven’t read what they have to say, I just noticed the reaction to it in the press.
When I came home from Iraq I was sitting in the Airport with several guys wanting to puke as I listened to the Democrats demands for withdrawl.
March 23rd I believe.
I guess my opinion only counts when it is against the war.
I’d really like to follow up with you in 20 years Nathan and see how you feel then. Really.
I’ve told you why I don’t listen to your opinion.
Hmmm…
NYT, the propaganda wing of al Qaida finds some disgruntled enlisted men that are discouraged with the war.
Now who could have possibly seen that coming?
Hank
I wonder if the Air Force guys in my neighborhood wrote a letter to the editor of the NYT saying that have seen lots of progress. Have been welcomed by the Iraqis. Feel a need to see the mission to completion for the freedom of an oppressed people.
Wonder if the NYT would print that one?
I guess my opinion only counts when it is against the war.Posted by: Nathan | August 21, 2007 at 01:46 PM
If your leadership actually had a plan for winning the peace and political reconciliation then your opinion would matter much more than it does today. Repeating the same ignorant “line of the day” discredits your opinion. Fighting for the sake of fighting, killing for the sake of killing is assinine. Perpetual war is not the solution to anything. This has been proven throughout history.
I wonder if the Air Force guys in my neighborhood wrote a letter to the editor of the NYT saying that have seen lots of progress. Have been welcomed by the Iraqis. Feel a need to see the mission to completion for the freedom of an oppressed people.
Wonder if the NYT would print that one?
Posted by: ksgrm | August 21, 2007 at 02:09 PM
Of course not.
However, you must agree that it harder and harder to continue justify staying. Even those whom I have talked to, who believe we have done a huge amount of good, are recognizing the futility of staying any longer.
“NYT, the propaganda wing of al Qaida finds some disgruntled enlisted men that are discouraged with the war.Now who could have possibly seen that coming?HankPosted by: Hank Price | August 21, 2007 at 02:02 PM”
So, let me make sure I have this right Hank:You are stating, on record that New York Times is a terrorist organization related to al Queda. Is that correct?
Dear brian,
Yep.
Hank
Hank Price,
As a factual claim, the burden of burden of proof for asserting that the New York Time is “the propaganda wing of Al Qaeda” is on you.
Produce your evidence or retract your assertion.
Hank, that is pretty close to libel isn’t it?
Hank doesn’t care if it’s factual or not.
They just might find themselves in a Tilmanesque type situation. I do hope they were aboard their flight home when they sent this letter!
Dear brian,
Depends on how close it is to the truth.
Dear CF2,
ESAD
Hank
Nathan, assuming you think invading Iraq was a really smart thing to do, why would any disagreement cause you to be physically ill?
Hank,If my understanding is correct, to defend yourself from a libel suit, YOU would need to prove it was indeed a fact.
Dear Hank,
Maybe you can help Nathan prove his claim that hundreds of highly credentialed scientists worldwide are ” “hacks” who are backed by those who stand to profit from energy market manipulations by imposing regulations under the guise of Environmentalism”.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/if-gore-were-a-.html#comment-80182377
Anyone care to debated the facts presented in the op-ed, or shall we continue with libel and slander of the people involved?
Nathan did you get physically ill when you had to leave Iraq, too?
I does seem silly that we could make that much difference in Iraq. The different groups there have been at each other’s throats for centuries.
Now we think we can send some troops in and they will decide to all get along? I don’t know if that is arrogant or just stupid.
It is as far-fetched as us sending troops into Norther Ireland to convince the folks there to all get along.
“ESAD,” eh? My, my, my, Hank, mighty touchy at the moment, aren’t we?
Not one of Hank’s better moments. But we all have our days.
Guess that’s what having no factual basis for one’s assertions can do to a person.
If you don’t got no “links” then man, like you don’t got no Bushy-speak.
“Links, man, like, “links” “links,” “links”
Sounds like these guys were close to the action, given that one of their group was shot in the head, while out on a mission.Better we listen to a couple of vip think tank experts that were given the vip tour.
“FREEDOM IS ON THE MARCH IN IRAQ” says Bush.
“BUSH CAN’T FIND ASS WITH BOTH HANDS,” declares Reality.
BAGHDAD — A roadside bomb on Monday killed the governor of Iraq’s Muthanna province, making him the second governor in as many weeks to become a casualty of violence between rival Shiite Muslim militias in southern Iraq.
Word of the assassination came as two prominent members of the Senate Armed Services Committee completed a two-day visit to Iraq and offered a bleak assessment of prospects here.
In a joint statement, Sens. Carl Levin, D-Mich., the committee’s chairman, and John Warner, R-Va., the committee’s senior Republican, said that while a surge of U.S. troops had tamped down violence in some parts of Baghdad, there was no sign of political reconciliation between Iraq’s Sunni and Shiite rivals and “we are not optimistic about the prospects.” They said U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker shared their views.
Levin later told reporters during a conference call from Tel Aviv that he believed the Iraqi parliament should replace Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki. “The Maliki government is nonfunctional and cannot produce a political settlement because it is too beholden to religious and sectarian leaders,” Levin said.
Another provincial governor in southern Iraq, Khalil Jalil Hamza of the Diwaniyah province, was killed Aug. 11, also by a roadside bomb.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/19063.html
Please note the operative phrase there: RIVAL SHIA MILITIAS.
These aren’t religious sectarians. These are battling armies fighting to control areas.
Civil War.
“Mission Accomplished.”
Dear brian,
I think that you are incorrect a lot more than you are correct. If the NYT thinks that I have libeled them, let them sue me.
I will then have to prove my assertions and then if I fail they will have to prove damages.
They are the biggest propaganda agent of the Islamo fascists in world. They have done more damage to the moral and safety of our armed forces than any other publication in history.
There, forward that to their publisher and I’ll await the response from their attorneys.
Hank
Hank, you are the biggest propaganda agent of the Islamo fascists in world. You have done more damage to the moral and safety of our armed forces than anyone else in history.
I’ll await the response from your attorney.
I see your point, this is easier than actually discussing the facts of the op-ed. Maybe we should have all debates this way. Is that the kind of civil governance you want?
Capn, I think it would be easier to force the conservatives and liberals in this country to reach a consensu on the abortion issue, than to force the Sunnis and Shias to reach a consensus on governance. And yet, that is the plan. Bush ordered our troops to walk the streets until that consensus is reached.
Does that strike anyone as a smart plan? Seriously.
Hank Price,
Hell-bent on turning this place into a substance-free zone, I see.
However, do try not to equivocate equivocate: “proganda agent” is different than “propaganda wing,” since the latter might merely be a de facto description, whereas you originally asserted an operational relation between Al Qaeda and the NYT.
My TANG trainig, gave me the insight that if we got Saddam, everyone would join hands and sing Kumbaya, Lord, Kumbaya!
1 1/2 YEARS AGO?
“Our Troops Must StayAmerica can’t abandon 27 million Iraqis to 10,000 terrorists.
BY JOE LIEBERMANTuesday, November 29, 2005 12:01 a.m. EST
Before going to Iraq last week, I visited Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Israel has been the only genuine democracy in the region, but it is now getting some welcome company from the Iraqis and Palestinians who are in the midst of robust national legislative election campaigns, the Lebanese who have risen up in proud self-determination after the Hariri assassination to eject their Syrian occupiers (the Syrian- and Iranian-backed Hezbollah militias should be next), and the Kuwaitis, Egyptians and Saudis who have taken steps to open up their governments more broadly to their people. In my meeting with the thoughtful prime minister of Iraq, Ibrahim al-Jaafari, he declared with justifiable pride that his country now has the most open, democratic political system in the Arab world. He is right.”
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007611
Dear leftcoaster,
You have nothing I want. Your opinion does me no harm. My attorney will not contact you.
I still love ya,
Hank
We’d be victorious in this war if the Democrats would just march lock-step with the president and cheer the war. But since they’re complaining, it’ll be their fault when we loose!
Yeah, right!
Spot on XXX!
Finally you got something right!
Hank
“They have done more damage to the moral and safety of our armed forces than any other publication in history.”
How? – most soldiers, Im guessing around 98-99% never read the NY Times. 80% have never heard of it
NYT:
-Exposing body armor vulnerabilities.
-Exposing secret financial monitoring program used against terrorists
-Revealing classified NSA monitoring programs
Just a few things…
NYT:
Exposed the Bush adminstration’s failure to adequately protect soldiers thereby putting pressure so the government acts to save lives.
Repeated a story from when Clinton was financially monitoring terrorist groups and freezing their assets.
Exposed an illegal government program where the government was spying on American citizens despite a Constitution which prohibits it.
Yes, the NYT should be applauded for exposing a criminal regime in the White House.
So these guys are in the position to know best. When was the last time Bush or Cheney spent any time in Iraq? If our soliders think this war is a bad deal and the ’surge’ didn’t work, I’ll belive them over anyone else.
Nathan still thinks that if the corps would only give him a gun, he’s win this war all by himself!
I still think that this Nathan person is a 15 year old.
No, Nathan is at least 18 years old.
Jed,
I have enough of my own guns.
Well, never enough, but I don’t need one from the cops.
Well, I would gladly take one from them and want one, but don’t need it.
Well, unless they are giving me a tricked out M1A Springfield, then yes I need a gun from the cops.
????
Nah, just a pump action and glock these days and tasers to shoot at people who aren’t breaking any laws.
“unless they are giving me a tricked out M1A Springfield”
Does that thought really EXCITE you marien-boy? Are you lusting? Your sky-god would be displeased.
So the NYT gave voice to the allegedly malcontent soldiers. Or more likely they wrote the professionally crafted article the soldiers lent their names to.
I have not doubt that there are those soldiers who are wanting the war in Iraq to get over, win or lose. And willing to go along with the Times.
Hank, you were 100% correct on your assertions today. The NY Times repeatedly takes the side of the enemy on every story and repeatedly criticizes everything the US does. Ben Ladin couldn’t do a better job if he wrote the articles himself – and maybe he does.
Someone would have to actually be able to read the NY Times before they drew that conclusion though.
Big assumption Hank.
And most libs who can read, believe every headline and story they read in the NY Times.
Sad state of public education today. Indoctrinates kids, but does not teach them anything. Public schools do not kids how to learn.
You know, if I wrote an Op Ed in the newspaper criticizing my boss and the company I worked for, I’d expect to be fired.
These troops need to be dishonorably discharged.
Max – have you ever heard of freedom of speech? I believe that freedom is given to soldiers, as well as the rest of us Americans who have opposed the Iraq War from day one.
Maybe the real hard fact to swallow is that these soldiers are doing the honorable thing by telling people back home exactly how things are in Iraq and not this rosy-colored glasses that Bush and Gang has been looking through.
And if Nathan thinks it is such a walk in the park to go fight in Iraq, why don’t you volunteer to go back and fight some more?
Maidmarion,
I don’t mind that soldiers have an opinion.
My question was why doesn’t the NYT post the opinions of those soldiers who agree with the war?
Also, it is not as easy as volunteering to go back and getting to go.
Your job has to be needed, manpower Marine Corps has to apporve it, and most of the time they hesitate on sending those who just got back right back over if there are others.
Besides, I need to finish my degree.
If they need me, I will go.
Aw, go on, Nathan, I am sure that they will ALLOW you to go back to Iraq for a few more tours.
You are so gung-ho, go ahead and volunteer for a tour.
The news is full of reports of the shortage of troops, so there is an obvious need.
Go for it, Nathan, it is YOUR war, after all.
… and if you go, you can write an op-ed and send it to the NY Times to prove they won’t print anything supportive of the war — hell you might even make it to RUsh or O’Really shows …….
Video
6 Palestinians murdered
http://www.haaretz.com/
I have no problem with several noncommisioned officers stating whatever they want. I am unsure of the newsworthiness of it. I am sure that I can find just as many with an opposing view.
Posted by: littlejohn
i don’t understand what the point to your reply is.
i guess the way around the truth, from your point of view, is always to agree and discount its relevance, and downplay it’s truth by saying there is another side to the issue.how profound you are.
Do you have an English translation for your post, BJ?
Give this man another Medal of Freedom, or better yet; take back the one he has!
——————————————————————————–
CIA inspector’s report on September 11 faults leaders By Randall MikkelsenTue Aug 21, 4:46 PM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Former CIA chief George Tenet failed to follow through on his 1998 declaration of war against al Qaeda and the agency diverted counterterrorism money for other uses in the years before the September 11 attacks, according to an agency report released on Tuesday.
A summary of the 2005 report by the CIA inspector general was declassified under protest by agency Director Michael Hayden in response to a law passed by Congress earlier this month.
The report said top CIA officers “did not discharge their responsibilities in a satisfactory manner” and it described a “systemic breakdown” in a watch list for tracking terrorism suspects who seek to enter the United States.
“It’s really pointing the finger at the CIA’s executives,” including Tenet, said Barbara Elias of the National Security Archive, which collects and publishes declassified documents.
The report recommended that the agency consider disciplining Tenet and other officials. But Hayden rejected that recommendation, endorsing a 2005 decision by his predecessor as CIA chief, Porter Goss.
“There was never a question of misconduct,” Hayden said.
Although the officials had been unable despite their best efforts to prevent the September 11, 2001 attacks, “they have prevented other acts of terrorism, and they have saved innocent lives, in our country and overseas,” he said on the CIA Web site.
Tenet, who was awarded the country’s highest civilian honor, the Presidential Medal of Freedom, by President George W. Bush in 2004, called the report’s findings “flat wrong.”
The report said that in December 1998 Tenet signed a declaration saying “we are at war” and he directed that “no resources or people” be spared to contain al Qaeda and its leader, Osama bin Laden.
The declaration was issued four months after al Qaeda-linked bombings at U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya.
However, the report said, the CIA focused too narrowly on tactics and never developed a broad strategy against al Qaeda before the September 11 attacks. Tenet, it said, “bears ultimate responsibility for the fact that no such strategic plan was ever created.”
Tenet and others persuaded Congress to increase counterterrorism spending, but officials were not effectively using the money they had, the report said.
Managers moved money from counterterrorism programs to “other agency priorities,” some of which had no connection to fighting terrorism, it said.
The report cited difficulties in working with the FBI and the National Security Agency, and in maintaining the suspected-terrorist watch list. Two of the September 11 hijackers were put on the list in August 2001, more than a year after their U.S. travel plans attracted attention.
Other probes into September 11 intelligence lapses have yielded similar findings. This one was ordered by Congress to study personal accountability for successes or failures within the CIA.
Tenet resigned as CIA director in 2004 after serving for seven years. “Before 9/11 no agency did more to attack al Qaeda than the CIA,” he said in a statement Tuesday.
Also, it is not as easy as volunteering to go back and getting to go.
Your job has to be needed, manpower Marine Corps has to apporve it, and most of the time they hesitate on sending those who just got back right back over if there are others.
—why? they send felons, gang members, and older people time after time.
Besides, I need to finish my degree.
—are you the son of a politician??
If they need me, I will go.
Posted by: Nathan
—if you did actually go over there to iraq, i’m happy you made it back alive and somewhat normal.
JOE LIEBERMAN is an idiot.
I wonder if the Air Force guys in my neighborhood bar wrote a letter to the editor of the NYT saying that have seen lots of progress. Have been welcomed by the Iraqis. Feel a need to see the mission to completion for the freedom of an oppressed people.
Wonder if the NYT would print that one?
Posted by: ksgrm
oh, you mean the people who have 2 hours of electricity a day at best, dirty drinking water, and armed teenage gangs randomly killing people outside their front door.those people ??
we are as welcome there as china would be if they invaded the u.s. and went around killing families, and telling us how much we need our government to reflect their government.
get real. repubkillians who are neo-CONS should be in prison.
More “Defeatist” talk, or is the Amabasador just telling it like it is?U.S. envoy says Iraq making poor political progress By Paul TaitTue Aug 21, 3:42 PM ET
BAGHDAD (Reuters) – Iraq has made “extremely disappointing” progress toward reconciling its warring sects, the U.S. ambassador said on Tuesday, just three weeks before he is due to present a pivotal report on Iraq to the U.S. Congress.
ADVERTISEMENTIn some of the bluntest language used by a U.S. official toward Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki’s fractured coalition government, ambassador Ryan Crocker also warned that U.S. support for Maliki’s administration was not open-ended.
“Progress on national level issues has been extremely disappointing and frustrating to all concerned, to us, to Iraqis, to the Iraqi leadership itself,” Crocker said.
“We do expect results, as do the Iraqi people, and our support is not a blank check,” he told reporters in Baghdad.
The report to Congress by Crocker and the top U.S. military commander in Iraq, General David Petraeus, due around September 11, is widely seen as a watershed moment that could trigger a change in U.S. policy in Iraq.
Pressure is growing on President George W. Bush to show progress in the unpopular war or start bringing troops home, with benchmarks set by Washington aimed at reconciling majority Shi’ites and minority Sunni Arabs seen as a litmus test.
Bush stopped short of harshly criticizing the Iraqi government on Tuesday, saying it was up to the Iraqi people to vote leaders out if their needs were not being met.
“If the government doesn’t … respond to the demands of the people, they will replace the government,” Bush told reporters in Quebec after meeting with the leaders of Canada and Mexico. “That’s up to the Iraqis to make that decision, not American politicians.”
The chairman of the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee, Carl Levin, just back from a visit to Iraq, on Monday urged that Maliki’s government be voted out of power because they have been unable to reach compromises on key policy issues.
Levin, a Democrat, made the criticism in a joint statement with Sen. John Warner, the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee who has said Bush’s “surge” strategy of sending thousands more U.S. troops should be given a chance.
LACK OF TRUST
French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner told France’s RTL Radio in an interview from Baghdad that Europe must play a bigger role in Iraq because “the Americans will not be able to get this country out of difficulty alone.”
Kouchner is the first French minister to visit Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 to topple Saddam Hussein. France, then under President Jacques Chirac, strongly opposed it and angered Bush by refusing to join his “Coalition of the Willing.”
Chirac’s successor, Nicolas Sarkozy, has since sought to improve ties with Bush, and Kouchner’s visit is seen as a symbolic sign of the new French policy on Iraq.
Kouchner said after three days of talks with Iraq’s leaders, including Maliki and President Jalal Talabani, it was clear there was a lack of trust between the different groups.
“Maybe the trust between the people is more than that,” Kouchner told reporters through an Arabic translator after talks with Sunni Arab Vice President Tareq al-Hashemi and Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari, a Kurd.
Iraq’s national unity government is paralyzed by infighting, with political blocs representing Shi’ites, Sunni Arabs and Kurds reluctant to compromise to reach a power-sharing deal.
That paralysis has meant negligible progress toward Washington’s benchmarks, which include a revenue-sharing oil law, setting a date for provincial elections and easing restrictions on former members of Saddam’s Baath party.
U.S. officials are especially frustrated after an extra 30,000 troops were deployed this year in a security crackdown meant to buy Maliki’s government time to reach those targets.
The political crisis is playing out against a backdrop of sectarian violence that has killed tens of thousands of Iraqis and displaced millions more.
Police said gunmen killed seven members of the same family in the town of Latifiya in the notorious “Triangle of Death,” a Sunni Arab militant stronghold south of Baghdad. Two police sources said three women and a girl were among the dead.
(Additional reporting by Francois Murphy in Paris and Ahmed Rasheed in Baghdad)
Well. This has been a revealing thread for showing the diseased Wingnut “mind” at work.
Hank Price made a really stupid, factually unsubstantiated, prejudicial accusation, and the other Wingnuts signed on because what he said was compatible with their conspiratorial, paranoid, resentful world views.
You Wingnuts are pathetic. Pathetic. Your scorn for anything resembling arguments or evidence puts you on the same side of the Islamic Fundos you claim to hate.
And of course, because your world view has NO CONNECTION WITH REALITY, you’re reduced to scapegoating anyone with white skin you don’t agree with–the NYT included.
Pathetic. But I do appreciate that Hank Price has now shown himself publicly to be an impotent buffoon, and that Max and outlander have shown they’ll do whatever Hank Price does.
Pathetic. But thanks for showing your true, conspiracy-theory, knee-jerk liberal-hating, right wing selves in all your shame and glory.
Good morning CF. Didn’t you and I reach a finding of fact a while back? As I recall, it was: “The NYT has no credibility”. The Times seems to me to have the attitude that they are journalists first, and Americans, well somewhere down the list.
So I’m with Hank on this but that is hardly anything new in regard to the Times.
outlander,
“The NYT has no credibility” is a matter of opinion. “The NYT is the propaganda arm of Al Qaeda” is a factual assertion.
CF2K can fully endorse the first (for a completely different set of reasons than y’all, by the way) while fully rejecting the other.
I realize that in Wingnut world, facts and opinions are systematically confused. But the rest of us don’t have to accept your decision.
And those who assert the second claim have the burden of proof for proving it. Don’t have the proof? Then retract the assertion.
You know, if I wrote an Op Ed in the newspaper criticizing my boss and the company I worked for, I’d expect to be fired.
These troops need to be dishonorably discharged.Posted by: Max | August 21, 2007 at 08:45 PM
LOL
Hilarious. Yeah, that will certainly engender the open-minded and frank discussion that anybody with a pulse knows to be at the heart of making an organization, ANY orgainzation, successful.
The only reason you want them discharged is because they communicate a message tailored for north of an American audience’s collective cerebellum. Or that they embarrassed Augustus Stupidus — take your pick.
Furthermore. How about the Wall Street Journal? Is the WSJ also a pinko commie pacifist rag?
LOL
What’s the significant difference between the troops you want discharged (dishonorably, no less, LOL) and these senior US officers, including General Casey (who spoke for the record to WSJ reporters)?————————…Army Chief of Staff George Casey, who spent several days last week meeting with top U.S. regional commanders here [Iraq], said he was taken aback by the intensity of anti-Maliki sentiment among senior U.S. officers. “I heard more people talk about Maliki not making it through his full term in two days than I had heard in all of my previous time here,” Gen. Casey said. “There’s a frustration with his inability to be a reconciliation leader, and a fear that the momentum generated by the surge could just be frittered away.”
…Other U.S. officers offered a bleaker assessment of the Iraqi government’s willingness to reconcile. Gen. Casey, who served as the top U.S commander here in 2005 and 2006, said the U.S. may have erred in believing that Mr. Maliki, with a lifetime of Shiite activism, would be willing or able to make political compromises with the country’s Sunnis.
“It would be a huge shame if after all the military has accomplished with the surge we don’t get a political accommodation,” he said. “But I’m not optimistic.”
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118765762674903614.html————————-
LOL. It’s guys like you, Max, who’ll cost your party the office of POTUS in 2008. Anybody who thinks we need less thinking about Iraq, instead of more, is part of the problem, not the solution.
The guys you want dishonorably discharged should be lauded for their courage instead.
Speaking of comments made by General Officers:
http://tinyurl.com/2bfow2