Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- Pleefer on Open thread 11/22
- Regular on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- American_Way on Open thread 11/22
- American_Way on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- satatom on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
Open thread 8/9
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Aug. 9, 2007 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
- Permalink
- Comments RSS
- Both comments and trackbacks are closed
234 Comments
A left-sided “alternative” newspaper is critical of Governor Sebelius? How can that happen?
http://www.pitch.com/2007-08-09/news/her-dirty-secret/full
Her Dirty Secret: Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius preaches green, but her heart seems as black as coal.
Bush Family Evil Empire: Scandal Du Jour
Today’s scandal du jour comes to us from Texas populist, Jim Hightower, a feller who’s been keeping an eye on the Bush Family Evil Empire for a long, long time.
http://www.jimhightower.com/node/6182
It’s embarrassing that George W keeps trying to deceive the American public about developments in Iraq, but it’s shameful that the media establishment blithely goes along, parroting Bush’s deceit.
Take Bush’s high-pressure push to ram a new oil law through the Iraqi Parliament. The official line is that this is a healing measure that would provide for a fair distribution of oil profits among Iraq’s Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds. The oil law is touted by the Bushites as key to unifying these factions, and its passage is the number one non-military benchmark that the White House has set to measure Iraqi “progress.”
Major media outlets in our country have swallowed Bush’s line whole, frequently and unquestioningly reporting that, for some reason, those quarrelsome Iraqis can’t even agree on something as basic as sharing oil revenues. There have been several impatient editorials, demanding that Baghdad get on with it.
If our media barons were to have a sudden attack of journalistic curiosity, however, they might peer a bit deeper into the oil law. Then they’d learn that the glitch is not about sharing profits, but about a cynical power grab by multinational oil giants. Eager to seize control of Iraq’s massive petroleum reserves, Big Oil got the Bushites to write a provision into the proposed law that would open two-thirds of that nation’s oil fields to ownership by foreign corporations.
In short, the law would force Iraq to surrender sovereignty over its most valuable economic resource – and that’s why it is not passing. The people there have enough trouble without losing control of their oil, and there is vehement public opposition to Big Oil’s law.
So when you see stories about Bush, Cheney and others imploring Iraq’s Parliament to pass this law – remember, They’re not promoting national reconciliation, they’re promoting a shameful oil scam.
“Opposition to American Oil Grab is Unifying Iraqis,” http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071207S.shtml, July 9, 2007
BushCo. wants to ram through a law in Iraq demanding that this impoverished and war-torn country reliquish two-thirds of their oil wealth to big oil companies already swimming in profits.
Yeah, that’s fair.
What’s wrong with those ungrateful Iraqi sons of b*tches?!
This has been your Bush Family Evil Empire: Scandal Du Jour.
Reminding you to check yourself for ticks so you don’t end up with Lyme’s Disease like George W.
Fortunately for the President, the tick soon learned it couldn’t suck the blood of another blood-sucking parasite.
The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation.
Two officials at leading Communist Party bodies have given interviews in recent days warning – for the first time – that Beijing may use its $1.33 trillion (£658bn) of foreign reserves as a political weapon to counter pressure from the US Congress. Shifts in Chinese policy are often announced through key think tanks and academies.
Described as China’s “nuclear option” in the state media, such action could trigger a dollar crash at a time when the US currency is already breaking down through historic support levels.http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1877876/posts
Oh, well isn’t this lovely? Republicans have spent years deriding “tax and spend” Democrats. Now we have “borrow and spend” republicans. Well it looks like that “chicken” is about to come home to roost.
We finished the Clinton administration with a tidy budget surplus. Of course to republicans, that meant we just had to give tax cuts to the rich. It also meant running monstrous deficits. And now we see how that’s working out.Way to go, repubs. This is a fine mess you and your moron president have gotten us into.
I might note that I predicted this possibility a couple of weeks ago on the blog, and was called some not so nice names by some of the republican/neo-con bloggers here…
I said China could be one of our worst economic nightmares… I believe, however, I had made a slightly larger Sum of debt owned by the Chinese than $1.3 Trillion… for which I was heavily criticized…
At this point, I dont know if my over-estimate of the Chinese debt over us is all that important…
I still believe if they should call the debt, it will just about bankrupt this country….
Chas,Our republican friends have their heads planted firmly in the sand. The first thing they say is that deficits aren’t harmful. They’ll also say that China won’t damage our economy because it would cost them business. They overlook the fact that China isn’t a capitalist society.
Recap: Mortgage companies are going bankrupt. The dollar is in free fall. The stock market is shaky. Our jobs are going overseas.
GOP, the party of fiscal restraint. I guess recession and depression are “restraining”.
Not to worry, we just need to cut taxes some more for the wealthy.
If the economy is going to crash, I hope it does so while Bush is still in office. Otherwise, repukes will blame it on Democrats.
Of course we all know it’s Clinton’s fault.
Of course we all know it’s Clinton’s fault.
Posted by: XXX | August 09, 2007 at 04:50 AM
Wouldnt it be a real hoot if somebody let the cat out of the bag that Clinton is impotent??? LOL
If Clinton is impotent, does that mean he’ll be shilling for Viagra?
XXX, I saw the thing about China yesterday. I was a little surprised it didn’t show up on the 8/8 open thread. I guess troll and gay blogging are far more important.
Just wanted to get my $0.02 in before the trolls and gays get started.
What the Chinese are doing is called posturing. They are hoping the bluff of “cashing in” will influence the U.S. in their decision making about their policies towards China.
However, China with a national debt of four times the size of their GDP, doesn’t really have a strong hand to play at the table of high stakes financial poker.
The largest portion of National Debt is held by the American People in forms of saving bonds, pension investment portfolios and general investment market T-Bond purchasers.
The Chinese may want to pretend they are the 800 pound gorilla in the National Debt situation of the U.S., but they are actually in a fragile gorilla suit subject to harsh external influences on their own economy.
Can the Chinese do the proposed scenario? Yes they can.
However, the pressure by the steady power brokers of the World, the Brits, the Japanese and Oil based Industries would simply flex their collective muscle and tell the Chinese if you threaten our investments in the U.S., we will punish you financially by withdrawing from Chinese investments.
I don’t think the Chinese want that as their economy would plunge into an abyss from which they could never recover.
When you mess with other people’s money like the ones previously mentioned, things can get ugly.
The Chinese should tread lightly with their rhetoric.
California Voting Machines Hacked
http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/california_voting_machines_hacked?utm_source=cnn00
“A team of hackers commissioned to test the security of California’s voting machines were able to find several security flaws that enabled them to alter votes. What do you think?”
Below this paragraph One of the more humorous comments I thought funny by commenters on the hacking of voting machines.
————————
Bill Quilty,Systems Analyst”I don’t understand why we needed these fancy new computer voting machines in the first place, what was wrong with the clap-o-meter?”
————————
heh heh – the young man has a unique sense of humor. :)
Kansas, I hope you’re right, but as another poster said, the Chinese aren’t capitalists. They may not make decisions the way we do. Also, they don’t have to dump all of their holdings, just enough to make things rough on us. Our economy is rapidly becoming a house of cards. It wouldn’t take a lot of nudging right now to push us into a recession.
Chas, I tried to sniff around and find our what types of bonds the Chinese are buying, but as far as I know, US Treasury bonds are not callable, and the holders do not have the right to demand repayment until they are due, perhaps in 10 years or so.
And if China were to desire to liquidate their US bonds, the only thing they can do is sell them to someone else. So we own the money to someone else.
If you know of something contrary to this, I would be glad to learn of it.
By the way, as long as trade between US and China is voluntary, which I believe it is, the Chinese have a right to do anything they want with the money they earn. What we should be concerned with is a US government that spends so much that we have to borrow money from anyone to pay for things like wars, welfare, etc.
Also, if we ever got into a shooting war with China, isn’t the first thing we’d do is repudiate the bonds they own? Or would we redeem bonds owned by a country we’re at war with?
Tall Tales?”The New Republic is standing by a disturbing account written by a GI in Iraq, even as the Army says the stories are not true.”
By Dan EphronNewsweekUpdated: 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
“Aug. 9, 2007 – What to make of the boxing match between The Weekly Standard and The New Republic, two Washington-based magazines, over the articles of a soldier diarist?
To recap: TNR last month published the account of a GI in Iraq who described men in his unit running down stray dogs with their Bradleys, amusing themselves with the excavated skull of an Iraqi child and mocking a woman in the mess hall whose face was burned in an IED attack. Titled “Shock Troops,” it was the soldier’s third column for TNR, all written on his laptop in Iraq and printed under a pseudonym.
When a blogger for the neoconservative Weekly Standard disputed the facts, the Baghdad diarist revealed himself as Pvt. Scott Thomas Beauchamp of the Army’s first infantry division, prompting a military investigation into each of the allegations.
But while the army announced this week it found no evidence to substantiate the misdeeds, the squabbling continues. TNR says its senior editors have corroborated details of the article through their own reporting, interviewing five members of Beauchamp’s platoon and finding only one significant inaccuracy: the mess hall incident took place in Kuwait, not in Iraq. The Weekly Standard, for its part, says most or all of the article is fabricated and accuses TNR editors of letting their bias against the war impair their judgment.”
cont’d athttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20191386/site/newsweek/
anonymous, I think you misunderstand. The Chinese hold over $900bn in a mix of US bonds. If I read it right, they hold $1.33 trillion in reserves that they could dump a major part of at any time. Considering where the dollar is right now, that could spell disaster.
“What we should be concerned with is a US government that spends so much that we have to borrow money from anyone to pay for things like wars, welfare, etc.”Posted by: anonymous | August 09, 2007 at 07:12 AM
Truer words were never spoken! What ever happened to financial responsibility?
“Also, if we ever got into a shooting war with China, isn’t the first thing we’d do is repudiate the bonds they own? Or would we redeem bonds owned by a country we’re at war with?”Posted by: anonymous | August 09, 2007 at 07:12 AM
Argentina got in a financial jamb a few years ago and told their creditors to “shove it”. They don’t seem to be much the worse for it.
Snuffy Smith, could you define “dump?” What would that mean in term of actual action?
from another thread…http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/08/07/bcnchina107a.xml
Why are we still dealing with these people. Isn’t it time we cut the ties?Posted by: SolDevVB | August 08, 2007 at 12:41 PM
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/open-thread-88.html#comment-78790674
Actually XXX! The Chinese economic threat is directed towards if Hillary Clinton wins the White House.
Dump = Sell/Liquidate
Joe! Can I jump in here?”The Chinese economic threat is directed towards if Hillary Clinton wins the White House.”What the article sez:” The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation.”
Also:
” The threats play into the presidential electoral campaign of Hillary Clinton, who has called for restrictive legislation to prevent America being “held hostage to economic decicions being made in Beijing, Shanghai, or Tokyo”.
Joe! Why do you hate Hillary?
The DEBT that China holds would seem to be at some level, what WE OWE them — what we have borrowed from them to pay our debts…
On the lighter side – an Airborne troops NO list…
http://skippyslist.com/?page_id=3
I don’t hate Hillary. Just stating the facts. You proved it with your quote in the article.
Joe!Ah ha! I think I see your point. But it’s almost a which came first, the chicken or the egg thing.
The Chinese have us by the balls and are unafraid to squeeze. They devalue their own currency to ensure the continuation of the trade imbalance. They poison us, our dogs, anyone they sell to. They take our factory jobs, ignore patent rights, and steal technology. What do we do about it? We give them more. So who is the idiot here? Who is tired of being the idiot? Stand up. Stop trading with China.
Sol,
It’s good to start the day with a laugh…or many laughs. Thanks to you and Skippy! Gotta share this one with my son-in-law, who will be leaving for Dubai–or somewhere in that vicinity–in a week.
Oh, and just for the record. Again.
I posted four articles yesterday morning. It was the BLOGGERS who decided to only take off on the gay article.
What about the other three? Or are they just too difficult without the gay bashers ganging together. Sorry, but the more they bash, the more I will call them on it.
Dont want all gay all the time? Then call your gay bashers to heel.
Obviously the WE wont do it…
Glad you enjoyed it Rox. Too funny and funnier to those who were in/around the Army in the last 10-15 years.
Cool. So about abortions….
Sol,Who gave the Chinese the cash and know to build all these factories? When we invest in certain overseas funds we may be moving our own personal jobs overseas.Buyer Beware
Abortions should be illegal
No they shouldn’t
shouldshouldn’tcontrol freakbabykiller
and on and on and on
Sol-
for allthe hype about damn Chinese, etc, and exporting jobs, and on andon
THe reason the got so much money to loan us
WE buy their crap!Why? because we don;t care about anything other than where can we get it the cheapest.
LJ,
That is the point I am trying to make. People have to step up. The government isn’t doing a damn thing about the technology they steal, the dogs they kill, the unbalanced trade.
Another problem is that the people HERE don’t give a $hit about the product they produce. The auto worker could care less if the vehicle he/she produced doesn’t last a year. All he/she cares about is the next contract negotiation.
We really need to make ‘Made in America’ mean something again. If we can do that, then an effective ‘Buy American’ campaign can begin to right the trade deficit.
“Each year the people of the United States write a check to subsidize China, one of the most brutal, anti-American regimes in the world. Lately it has been in vogue for everyone in Washington to eagerly denounce the egregious abuses of the Chinese people at the hands of their communist dictators. Yet no one in our federal government has been willing to take China on in any meaningful way. ”
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2006/tst081406.htm
Ron Paul 2008
Any other candidate taking up this issue?
Especially with FOOD!!!!
People would rather buy an imported tomato sprayed with god knows what and shipped god knows how far just so they can save ten cents over locally grown produce.
Same with meat. They would rather buy the hormone and e coli infested factory beef, raised on irrigated grains with frankenstein genes.
Why? It sure as hell doesnt taste better or have better nutrition. It is because it is fifty cents cheaper than beef from the locker plant.
And then the taxpayers ALREADY get to pick up the bill for their healthcare, one way or another. ‘Cause ya know, if they get sick from eating that cheap, uninspected, low quality food…
…they will want the gummit to do something ABOUT it! After the fact of course. They couldnt possibly pay a few cents more to have their food property inspected.
They’d rather pay the emergency room, or have the gummit pay for the emergency room later.
All hail the mighty dollar. THAT is what should be on the American flag.
I agree, but it is far more than that. Evey environmental regulation, every labor law regulaiton, every whatever law comes with a price. I am not arguing for or against the validity of any of them. My point is that they come with a price. CHina doesn;t have such laws, so not only is labor cheaper, thethe regulatory costs are cheaper. AMericans don’t care. They want more stuff! they want it now! and they want it cheap! The reason Wal-Mart is the world’s largest retailer? Not corporate greed, not their cheap labor, It’s their cheap customers!
Not only do they want it cheap, they don;t want it messing up their backyard. They’d rather pay Saudis, or whoever, high dollars for oil, so they won;t mess up, umm let’s see. Anwar (oil), the oceans off ted kennedys compound(wind farms), Oil rigs off Florida coasts, (oil again) and the list goes on. As long as the dirt is in someonelses yard, great. Gimme. Sedgwick county is no champion of otherwise. As they stated, after spending millions on ground near Furley. NO place in Sedgwick county is safe for trash, then purchased land in Harper county to trash up. Oh, the waer table in sedgwick county is how deep? ANd in Harper county? More, notin my backyard crap
So how do the commoners help America become once again a proud nation?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/fda-food-oversi.html#comment-78886572
You can’t “buy American” because we don’t manufacture hardly anything anymore. Big biz off-shored most of our manufacturing. And several of you are right. Quality means nothing…we only care about what’s cheapest.
6-inch ruler.29 made in China.59 made in USA
Which are you going to buy?
“A left-sided “alternative” newspaper is critical of Governor Sebelius? How can that happen?
http://www.pitch.com/2007-08-09/news/her-dirty-secret/full
Her Dirty Secret: Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius preaches green, but her heart seems as black as coal.”
Meadowlark that was a GREAT post. If you havent clicked on the link, you should. It details what I have been saying all along.
Sebelius will go down in history as the WORST governor for environmental concerns in Kansas history.
She will never be a VP candidate with that kind of record that bespeaks of her distain for anything environmental.
And she appointed joe harkins to staff the kansas “energy” commission just to ensure the entire process would be, as CF says, “ratf*cked”.
She did not get the Sierra Club endorsement the last time she ran for gov. Her environmental record has deteriorated even since then.
But campaign donations from Steve Miller and Sunflower electric are waaaaaay up I bet. Along with the garden city chamber of commerce donations.
Business as usual for “governor leadership” and her merry band of henchmen.
When we look to buy an item, the first thing most of us look at is price. I did it myself last night. I went to Home Depot to buy a pair of saw horses and went to the lowest priced units first (boy, were they cheap crap). I went for the next lowest price-good heavy steel construction, but probably not American made. Too much Spanish on the labels.
Hud,
How do we change that mind set? How do we get back into ‘Buy American’ and pay the extra few cents. First we have to get back into the business of producing superior products. Damn shame we let that one slip…
Well Hud, that depends on if I want to support China’s slave labor standards and pollution practices to save a few cents…
…or if I want to support american workers and companies and shell out a whopping thirty cents to do it.
SO… hud… which would YOU do?
Well Ksfarmgrrl-
With the rise of Wal-mart, K-mart, and Target, the answer for most Americans is obvious
ksfarmgrrl-
i have a question. It is simply this.
Should politicians accept campaign donations?
I guess I have 2 questions
Second. If not, how can they get elected?
The problem is the difference in price does not represent a superior difference in the quality of the product.
So are we overcharging or are they undercharging?
Hud,
How do we change that mind set? How do we get back into ‘Buy American’ and pay the extra few cents. First we have to get back into the business of producing superior products. Damn shame we let that one slip…
Posted by: SolDevVB | August 09, 2007 at 09:30 AM
Hud, does it matter? Americans consistantly buy the cheapest crap they can find. Even if it is only a few cents. I think that is called penny wise and pound foolish.
Of course, those shoppers willing to sell out for a few cents just think the costs of their decisions will be payed by someone, anyone, but them.
A classic Tragedy of the Commons.
We, the American people, have let a lot of things “slip”. We live for the now not the future.
If it makes us happy now go for it.
How about camppaign finance reform in this manner
1) all campaign contributions must be made public
2) If you cannot vote, you cannot contribute campaign moneya) no corporations b) no pacs c) no associations d) no unions, etc.
3) You can only contribute money for candidates you can vote for(no out of state contributions
Hey Farm Girl,
I have to disagree with you about food. People could eat a lot better and cheaper if they never went up and down the aisles in the stores.
Instead of merely walking around the perimeter of the store where the meat, dairy products and veggies are they buy prepared foods in cans and boxes. they’re not buying food, they’re buying convenience. And paying a premium for it!
Joyce and I eat very well. Fresh veggies from a roadside stand on the way home or from our garden or from the neighbor’s garden. We buy our beef from Turkey Foot Farm down in Winfield or from the discount bin at the store.
We have an apple tree and a pear tree in our yard and Joyce cans fruits and jams. We eat healthier and cheaper than most people I know. Quality, nutritious foods are actually cheaper, they’re just more work.
Hank
tragic
Hank, how does that disagree with what I posted?
Not everyone is able to grow their own food like you and I do, but EVERYONE can buy from local producers and farmers markets.
Avoiding the grocery store is not a bad idea. Shopping around the edges is a GREAT idea. But I guess you would still go somewhere for paper goods, cleaning products, and the things you dont produce.
I totally agree with your posts. But as long as americans insist on going to walmart for cheap groceries, their health and the possibilites for local producers will also suffer.
Hank, I agree about peoples shopping habits.
One day I saw a couple with a full shopping cart and the aisle they shopped was “frozen foods”.
1) all campaign contributions must be made public
** They already are. It’s just not fast enough under Kansas election law.
2) If you cannot vote, you cannot contribute campaign money
**Non- US citizens can’t contribute to campaigns. There’s no rule about convicted felons in Kansas, though, not contributing.
a) no corporations b) no pacs c) no associations d) no unions, etc.
** Those organizations can only contribute $500 in state rep races, $1000 in state senate races, and $2000 in governor, attorney general, secretary of state, etc. races
3) You can only contribute money for candidates you can vote for(no out of state contributions
** Interesting. However:
All organizations get around the finance limits by running “independent expenditure” campaigns, which aren’t coordinated with the candidate. You just can’t restrict those without restricting free speech rights.
The best defense against the tyranny of the majority are well informed voters.
You know, the ones that dont just vote the way they are told by their pastor, their party, their bosses….
But hey, vote the way yer told! It’s easier than thinking.
Limiting contributions is fine except it does not cover enough.
I start a campaign against Hillary. I do not give money to Obama. So the money I put in does not count against him but it is campaigning.
I love the phrase “tyranny of the majority”. The majority revolts against the minority?
Hud,
Those are the kinds of independent expenditures I meant in my 9:57 post.
TomRE: independent expendituresYes, I see that now. I am using a new laptop this morning. (Probably made in China.) And I am having problems adapting to the keyboard. I am kind of slow between reading and posting.
Most people who buy cheap are forced to. The economy may have been good for the last couple of years but I can assure you that the benefits haven’t been trickling down to “joe six-pack”. Most people I know are lucky to see 2-3% per year raises. That usually doesn’t cover the rise in their health insurance costs.
Most people I know who buy cheap are cheap. They want cheap, because they want more! More laptops, more ipods, more , more, more. Hence, cheap, cheap , cheap.
Something on the increasing number of mortgage defaults from AIG. Not surprisingly, the largest increase is in the subprime sector, but the next sector “up” in quality is showing an increase a well. Look out for October.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/09/news/economy/bc.aig.subprime.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes
Tom–My comment about “You cannot vote, youi cannot contribute” was meant to allow only contributions by those who can actually vote. I meant to say , individuals. Corporations,associations, pacs, etc cannot vote, hence they should not be able to contribute to campaigns. I would even go so far as to say that parties (Democrat, Repoublican, Independent, whatever) cannot vote, hence could not contribute to any candidates campaign.
LJ, do you also stop non-money? Like the corporate jet.
Sure. WHy not?
Littlejohn,
So what do you do about independent expenditure campaigns? Restrictions on those become restrictions on First Amendment rights. People “assemble” to “speak” – that’s what a PAC really is.
And in today’s media environment, the only way to get a message to large groups of voters is to buy media, whether it’s broadcast or direct mail. It all costs gobs of money to produce and distribute.
Are you willing to have public financing of campaigns? For the record, I oppose public financing.
Farmgrl, I see your point as well as Hank’s, but here is my argument (while I don’t disagree with you, I have to point out a few things)
My family and I would love to eat homegrown and fresh and nothing else. We simply can’t afford it. Sure, for one product it may be a few cents, but when those cents start adding up you wind up with MORE than a few dollars. When you are a on a strict budget as we are, there isn’t that option… And we don’t live outside our means – we have a modest house in a modest neighborhood, an 8 year old car and a 6 year old car, and no extra toys like boats or campers, etc… We don’t eat out much (once a week and my grandmother pays) and we don’t go out much – MAYBE once every two months or so… adn we simply can’t afford all fresh all the time. Not to mention actually having time to say grow our own garden or even cook most of it – i work 9 hour days, my fiance works anywhere from 11 to 13 hours a day, and we have a two year old who doesnt’ have much patience once he decides he wants to it… it isn’t always about “convienence” for us, so much as what we realistically have time to do…
“EVERYONE can buy from local producers and farmers markets.
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | August 09, 2007 at 09:53 AM ”
I would love to buy from local producers and farmers markets, but my shopping is done at 8pm after work, and there is no venue I know of to purchase local foods that will fit my lifestyle. Any ideas (other than changing my schedule)?
“So what do you do about independent expenditure campaigns? Restrictions on those become restrictions on First Amendment rights. People “assemble” to “speak” – that’s what a PAC really is.”
I disagree. A PAC, is a special interest group, and is often no more than a way for 501c3s to get around their not being able to speak out because of their tax exempt status. I understand your point, but I wouild probably argue that Individuals are given constitutional rights. Whether or not groups do, I would logically say no, but the Supremes have probably disagreed.
In any case, then, limiting funding amounts, is limiting free speech, is it not?
No, I oppose public financing.
“Any ideas (other than changing my schedule)?”
Yes. Many local producers will make deliveries. Some like to come to one central place and have the customers pick up their orders.
Others, like me, will come to your door at home, at work, or leave it with a neighbor, etc. That leaving it at the door thing doesnt work well with foods that need refrigeration, but it works fine with produce and dry or canned goods.
There are also “subscription” gardens where you pay a set fee and then get a “share” of whatever that garden produces, when it produces.
So, for example, everyweek you might get a “box” of whatever was harvested, in season, as fresh as possible.
Early boxes would have lots of potatoes, cabbage, broccoli, etc. Later boxes lots of squash, tomatoes, peppers, late season crops or, of course fall season crops similar to the early ones.
You dont get to chose, you just have to trust the farmer and love what you get. And if hail or some such destroys the garden? Well, heheheh. You shared the risk with the farmer. No crops, no produce.
I also bet if you put up a sign somewhere that said, I would love some of your excess garden stuff, you would have LOTS of folks giving you cukes, squash, and other “plagues of the garden”. :)
In fact the “give aways” are my biggest competition in season. But I dont mind. I know what it is like to have someone’s face light up when you hand them three perfect tomatoes and a dozen long and perfect green beans…
Littlejohn,
Of course a PAC is a “special interest group.” It’s a group of people with a special interest in one issue of public policy or another.
But not all “special interests” are evil. In fact, I would say most aren’t. What about organizations like “Club for Growth” or “Americans for Prosperity”? Both are anti-tax, pro-business PACs that spread campaign donations around the Republican party like confetti on New Year’s Eve. I honestly don’t see anything wrong with what they’re doing.
The organization I’m a part of has a PAC as well. We don’t have so much in the way of money, but we have a _lot_ of volunteers who we can organize and put on the ground for various campaigns. Are we a “special interest?” I sure hope so! Should we be restricted? No!
One thing you say about PACs being money funnels for C3’s – you have a point. And there should be _TOUGHER_ standards in keeping PAC and C3 activities separate. My organization has a C4, PAC, and C3. The PAC and C4 are tied together, but our C3 operates completely independently of the C4/PAC. I don’t know how much money they have, where they raise it, who their donors are. More PACs and C4 advocacy groups should operate this way, IMO.
“three perfect tomatoes and a dozen long and perfect green beans…”
The joys of a fresh tomato. (sigh)
Green beans you can have. I’ll take something else.
Tom-You are right. All groups are “special interest groups” and should have equal access to the politicans and political process. However, someone is always making the charge the a politician is beholden to some “special interest group” I would eliminate any campaign financing for all of them, giving them equal status.
let the 501c3 do it’s job in education about the issues to the public, providing membership benefits to it;’s members, and the like. Leave the politicking (sp) and campaign financing to individuals. What would be wrong with that?
With regard to special interests, I can’t say it any better than this:
Your principle has placed these words above the entrance of the legislative chamber: “whosoever acquires any influence here can obtain his share of legal plunder.” And what has been the result? All classes have flung themselves upon the doors of the chamber crying: “A share of the plunder for me, for me!”
– Frederic Bastiat, Selected Essays on Political Economy [1848]
Or, sometimes instead of plunder, they want to opress their enemies (gamblers, gays, drug users, immigrants, etc.).
And so Tom, who is going to say which “special interest” is evil and which is not? I would be willing to bet, oops – no gambling in Sedgwick, very few members of a PAC think their group is evil.
“My family and I would love to eat homegrown and fresh and nothing else. We simply can’t afford it.”
If we taught gardening in pre-school and included civics in the same early education programs, instead of just math, science and vecommunicatin skills, we might see a serious change in that sort of dogmatic approach to “the problem.”
Anyone who thinks 3-5 year olds can’t learn such complex lessons hasn’t spent much time with children.
Anyonw who thinks this is a stupid idea doesn’t realize what early childhood education means in terms of the direction any culture moves itseld.
We’ve given our young children over to the worst teacher, the Bart Simpsons and Al Bundy’s of the cable world.
..isn’t it time we gave them back to real educators. Or at least offeered them the option?
Posted by: anonymous | August 09, 2007 at 11:10 AM
That is a GREAT post anonymous.
I had a conversation with my “libertarian” lawyer a few weeks ago and he commented something that when people figured out that they COULD actually vote themselves a share of the treasury, democracy would be lost.
heheheh. Poor boy. He said it like it had not already happened…
Hey Farm girl,
I don’t really disagree, I guess, maybe. Just a little different perspective.
They best marketing tool in the world for food as far as I’m concerned is a hand made, hand painted sign by the drive way of a farm.
I think people are not so much cheap, but ignorant when it comes to groceries.
Well said JEP. My old one room country school house is still standing out here. I always had a dream of operating an alternative school there, maybe even with boarding in conjunction, that would impart knowledge by action.
Gardening, cooking and canning for math and physics and chemistry.
Reading as pleasure when no tv or internet is available.
Spirituality through silence and respect for the earth and all its inhabitants.
Philosophy by reading and discussion.
Music and art by listening, observing, and doing.
Teamwork by cooperative living. Community by interaction, not observation.
Business by marketing, production, and accounting of the goods sold. Economics by being vertically integrated and in the community.
But then, I always was a dreamer.
“They best marketing tool in the world for food as far as I’m concerned is a hand made, hand painted sign by the drive way of a farm.”
No disagreement there. Just that no one drives by here :) and when someone DOES go by, everyone runs to the window to see who it was…
I like it that way!
“I think people are not so much cheap, but ignorant when it comes to groceries.”
I think it is both. Some people are just cheap. I understand budgets and living on a shoe string, but you can grow some food in containers. That is as cheap as it gets. And how much time does it take to slice a tomato or cuke?
And if someone is sacrificing the quality of their food for convenience and price, well, I guess we all make choices. No smart ass intended.
There is NOTHING cheaper than growing some food, shopping for raw food, and doing as much of your own cooking as possible.
It does take time, but it saves money. So? Ya have to chose between time and money. We all do. I chose time. Others chose money. To each their own.
BTW, frozen food is often nutritionally superior to some fresh. Out here, I ALWAYS buy frozen fish. The fresh travel too far to be in good condition if they really are fresh and not freshly thawed.
Same with veggies. I’d rather buy frozen corn than ratty corn out of season. But of course, that is why they say to eat SEASONALLY as well as LOCALLY.
“No disagreement there. Just that no one drives by here :) and when someone DOES go by, everyone runs to the window to see who it was…”
I’ve been there. She’s not kidding.
How cheap is it, when you later learn that the product you purchased is contaminated, made with lead, etc.etc..?
Another Haditha Marine exonerated.
Will Murtha appologize?
Will the press?
Breathing
FRESH green beans, cooked grandma style, will ALWAYS and forever be the best. They might be nutritionally bad with all that lard, but oh heavens the taste!
“Last week, the Bush Administration announced that it would be increasing military aid to Israel 25% to $30 billion, would beguaranteeing $13 billion in military aid to Egypt and would sell $20 billion to the Gulf states, primarily Saudi Arabia, all over the next ten years. The Middle East is lacking for many things, but the one thing that every Middle Eastern country is awash in is weapons. This is a time for the United States to be promoting diplomacy, not more violence.
US law states that military aid is only to be used for defense, and is not to be provided to countries which engage in a “consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights.” None of the recipient countries, including Israel, meet this standard.”
Seems like we could find more positive and productive ways to spend our money…and why don’t we ever learn from our mistakes?
“I’ve been there. She’s not kidding.
Posted by: Tom | August 09, 2007 at 11:41 AM”
Hee hee hee! I had to explain to someone yesterday that the reason I had not received their check for produce was because I live so freakin’ far out that they dont even deliver MAIL to my house!
Glad you can vouch for the truth of all this Tom. It wasnt TOO much like camping though, was it? :)
pmom…
we planted a garden trying to teach some of our homeless tenants some new skills. The garden is overgrown and underpicked.. especially the green beans. Holler, and I’ll let you know where you can go pick a mess. My e-mail is live.
I have a few questions about gardening.
1. I have a decent sized yard, and I could put a fairly good sized garden back there. What do I need to know about soil in order to do it.
2. How much upkeep is a garden. I know when I was a child, we had LARGE gardens on the farm, we practically grew all of our own food, including meats. My great aunt grew rows and rows of corn, my great grandmother rows and rows of beans/peas and other stuff…my grandfather did the pumpkins, radishes & tomatoes- and we all shared.
I remember canning and freezing, but I don’t remember how to do it on my own. And I really don’t think I have a pot to do it in. Everyone had multiple huge freezers in their homes. I don’t have room for a freezer like that, nor room for canned goods…I do have a small chest freezer.
So it does take more than just getting a pot and growing it.
Kansassam, you’ll have to give me your email, it doesn’t show up on here anymore.
I’d LOVE some fresh green beans!
I don’t think it’s going to happen, but what if China decided to “cash out” their 1.3 trillion dollars in US Treasuries?
The US Treasury doesn’t have that kind of “cash” lying around, so I guess they would print some up?
That would devalue the dollar right? So our dollar is worth even less against other countries currencies.
Products made in America would become “cheaper” (in price) and more competitive at say the German Walmart or ChinaMart? Demand would increase, hourly wages, manpower, and expansion here at home? It’s already visible in the Euro market where our products are selling better. Corn, soybeans, and other grain crops exports might rise?(man but a trip overseas on vacation for American’s is expensive! Even the Maple Leaf in Canada is worth more these days).
On the other hand, it would take more dollars to buy that barrel of oil from Saudi, unless they are willing to take lower profits.
Wouldn’t increase our national debt, as it would just shift the funded liability to unfunded. But Americans aren’t too worried about debt anyway.
But since most of the world trades in American dollars, would this put fear in the market of the many other nations holding our debt?
Interesting to see what would happen and how it would affect our lives.
Mary,
Amen
Ron Paul 2008
Well Pmom, of course you are right, it DOES take more than a pot to grow it.
But “it” depends on how big YOU want “it” to be. Do you want to supply ALL your food? Some? A little? Just a few dee-lites?
A pot or two on the patio will get you started, or hooked as the case may be. And it will provide some tasty dee-lites. It is not intended to be a major source of food supply.
Personally, I think the best gardens dont require a big yard. The bigger your garden, the more daunting it will be, and as Sam pointed out, it will be over friendly to weeds and under picked. Not to mention water wasting.
I recommend square foot gardening for the back yard gardener. There are great books on the subject. Or subscribe to Mother Earth News for good advise.
I think, IIRC, two sixteen foot square plots of square foot gardening will supply most of the veggies needed for a family of four for a year.
As for preserving it, like I said, there is nothing wrong with frozen food, and some things, like green beans, I like better canned. So you can buy that stuff off season in the store for that matter. Just watch the labels.
In season, if you are just looking for fresh veggies, ONE sixteen sq foot gardening plot will supply a family of four with fresh veggies in season, and salad greens most of the year.
As for freezing and canning, most folks I know dont can much except for us die hards trying to be completely self sufficient on food.
Canning should be done carefully and EXACTLY as the experts say until you are confident of your skills. Then you can improvise. Call your local extention office for canning info.
But dont let anyone fool you about freezing. Take a gallon baggie, put one layer of produce in it, and lay it flat in your freezer. It will be fine to cook with.
Yeah, it’s better to blanch and peel and do all that stuff, but it isnt necessary for safety. I just throw stuff in the freezer and cook it later. Works for me.
Providing your own food is on a spectrum. You can do a little or a lot, whatever suits you. And if you find you dont like gardening and such?
Hehehehe. That’s what farmers markets are for…
heheheh. And speaking of green beans…
When Tom was here I stir fried fresh ones with lots of garlic in olive oil, then added sesame seeds, soy sauce, and red pepper flakes towards the end.
Then I drizzled sesame and truffle oil over all when served.
Yummo as Rachel Ray would say.
One year, as an experiement, we used a planting method recommended in Mother Earth News. Wide row planting for beans. I planted 3 twenty foot rows. I had so d*** many beans,we canned, and we froze, and we froze, and we froze. I got so sick of green beans that i have YET to plant another one.
Iowa Kid, when the US Treasury sells bonds that says payable on a certain date, can the holder “cash in” as you say, before that date?
Can you answer that question for me, please?
pmom..
samuel53@yahoo.com
anyone else?
“One year, as an experiement, we used a planting method recommended in Mother Earth News. Wide row planting for beans. I planted 3 twenty foot rows.”
Hehehehe. I am HOWLING lj. Like I said, if you want to know what “works” look to Mother. I see it worked REALLY well for you.
And, fyi, even I dont plant that many green beans and I sell them like hotcakes :)
Whatever you do, dont follow Mother Earth News’ recommendations for growing squash or zuccini. Heheheheheh. Kansas will have to declare it a noxious weed to get rid of it….
Iowa Kid,
If we had to send $1 Trillion to China, we’d have to fund it with new bonds (which would require higher interest rates to sell) and/or we just print more money. We’ll see interest rates go to 10% again or more, prices go up – Inflation, and a slowing economy which would lead to high unemployment.
In short – The late 1970’s StagFlation all over again.
Iowa Kid, when the US Treasury sells bonds that says payable on a certain date, can the holder “cash in” as you say, before that date?
Can you answer that question for me, please?
Posted by: anonymous | August 09, 2007 at 12:25 PM
An individual and I assume country can sell any government bond they have.
There is a fee you must pay if you cash in early though, it’s not much relative to the value of the T-Bond.
For savings Bonds, I believe you can go to a Post Office or a Bank.
For long term T-Bonds, you must file for cash out options at a Federal Reserve Facility.
There’s probably more involved, that’s just off the top of my head.
Sam, I think you should give away all the produce you can. It is great publicity for the work you are doing. And there is something deeply satisfying about growing food and then giving it to someone else to be nourished by it. One of the most special feelings in the world. Second only to cooking for others and their pleasure and nourishment :)
But… on a more venal note….
Nothing stops your folks from setting up a “sidewalk” stand or whatever and marketing their own and using it for seed money for next year. And tools and such.
I’m telling ya, growing and selling food sure brings home the message about reaping what we sow, the importance of sowing well, being a steward, follow through and patience, and being appropriately grateful for the resulting bounty.
For anyone who feels like the NEVER get out of anything as much as they put INTO things, it can be a real balm for the soul. Even the selling part.
Yeah, I guess I kinda over did it. Maybe. I had no idea it would work that well, but times were tough, I was laid off from work, and we wanted to eat well by investing time instead of money. Lord, I cuoldn;t even EAT a green bean for a year or so. Now, I like fresh, stir fried, or even just blanched and seasone, or best of all, breaded and fried like TGIFRIDAYS. Of course, then they are bad for you.
I have a few questions about gardening. political_mom
1. Get a good gardening book or google it. Organic Gardening used to be one of my favorite magazines. Best bet – walk across the street to the closest garden and introduce yourself. Never met a green thumb who didn’t want to brag and demonstrate. Or have someoone here fill the blog with what belongs elsewhere.
2. How much upkeep is a garden?
It is without a doubt work. It takes much time. Weeding is daily, watering, and applying organic solutions to pests and plant diseases. 7 Dust works in a pinch for bugs. But a home garden is W.O.R.K., another four letter word. Experienced gardners with time can make it cost effective. On the other hand, there are those of us who want the biggest and bestest and are in a continual state of competition from indoor starts in January, until final tilling in November. I spent LOT’s of money.I love Miracle Grow and whatever ELSE captures my eye in the Earl Mays of Kansas. Anything for that competitive edge. REGARDLESS on which type of person you are: A garden is rewarding in more ways than just putting food on the table. My peppers taste better than yours – just because I grew them.
I remember canning and freezing, but I don’t remember how to do it on my own.
Ball and Masson (sp) – buy the jars at RUMMAGE SALES. Get your lids new and keep the screw on lid thingamabobs. Both companies offer excellent books on getting back into the groove. You don’t have to high pressure can. You can boil mucho produce! Blanching and freezing is easy and a great place to put the kids on the production line. One tip: Mark your baggies with permanent markers with the date. Use the oldest first.
Key word is WORK.
I don’t think I can ever get sick of green beans. I could quite literally turn my entire backyard into a source of food for the year. And it would save mowing.
So now you’ve got me thinking about all the things I’d like to plant. Cukes, I’m not a big tomato fan, but a plant probably wouldn’t hurt. Peas, Carrots, Broccoli, Strawberries, Blueberries, Peach tree…I need some trees.
OH, and LJ? My over production this year? Fourteen gallon baggies of homemade sourkraut in the freezer. Hell, if I eat a gallon a year, that’s a lot for me.
I feel a BIG Oktoberfest coming on. Hog prices will likely go up with all the brats it will take to use up that kraut :)
Pmom, really, get the square foot gardening book. You will be amazed at how successful it is.
And dont forget to mulch. Pick a neighbor with a deep green and well watered lawn, and ask for their lawn clippings. You may have to haul them home, but they make great mulch and/or compost, which is the key to sq ft gardening.
Careful, you will now have to deal with pesky rabbits, deer, and other animals.
Depending on where you live, you could hunt your garden and put some meat on the table along with the fresh vegetables.
My favorite is Hassenpfeffer, though Sushi style rabbit is a delicacy (when they are young.)
http://www.recipeland.com/recipe/11229/http://rabbithuntingonline.com/recipes/
IK, I’m not interested in working that hard, but I really don’t remember my family working that hard at it either. I’m not interested in competing, just so that my garden produces what I find appetizing. If it takes a lot of money to grow these, I’m not going to be interested in it at all, afterall, my objective is to save money.
I will look into these things. If I start prepping now, by next year I’ll probably be ready to actually plant one. Thank you for all the tips.
Dang.That is a LOT of sauerkaraut!
Cukes! You want some pickles too!!! Do it the old fashion way. Go FIND pickel barrels. Some stores still sell them, farm communities. But I think they are a dying breed – so get em and keep em. Don’t waste time on anything LESS than 10 gallon. For all the work, might as well put up quite a few quarts. I have a great grape leaf and another hot pepper brine recipes.
Plant cukes in hills. Pick the variety for purpose. Canning, get those little short and pimply ones. Salads those long burbless varieties (Burpee See Company).
I plant my hills along a trellis. The plants grow up the trellis, and the fruit grows hanging down. Easy to get to, find, and no dirt!
Put your pickle barrell in a basement in a cold dry out of the way place. Don’t worry about thatstuff you skim off the top with cheese cloth. That’s what’s cooking your pickles!!
KFG, just went to the Square Food Gardening site…this looks like the method for me and I only got past the first few lines! Thanks.
“Don’t worry about thatstuff you skim off the top with cheese cloth. That’s what’s cooking your pickles!!”
Aren;t you supposed to blen and drink that?
If I start prepping now, by next year I’ll probably be ready to actually plant one.
Posted by: political_mom
Start working the soil this fall. Find a friend with a tiller and turn the new spot this FALL. You can then take the soil samples down to the county extension office and for free they will check your soil for ph and other goodies. It takes time – so do that this fall. Plus you soil will be “somewhat” ready for an early spring planting.
If you want good cold crops: lettuce (oh boy wilted with bacon grease/vinagar), SNOW peas (in the pan w/butter & mushrooms), broccoli, etc… you want to get them in EARLY. Lettuce bolts around my place in June. Too hot around here.
Aren;t you supposed to blen and drink that?Posted by: littlejohn | August 09, 2007 at 12:48 PM
I would only do that
once. ;-)
And there is something deeply satisfying about growing food and then giving it to someone else to be nourished by it. One of the most special feelings in the world. ksfarmgrrl
I sorta feel that way about paying taxes.
Can we get off the gardening trip?
No one has talked about being gay for over an hour now.
This isn’t a gardening blog ya know.
Wow. That’s got to be a record.
12 hours without a troll post.
Thanks, Green Apple, without your snarky idiocy we might have gone the entire day, and then where would we be?
It’d just get our expectations up . . .
How about chronic hallitosis, jock itch, or feminine panty wing products?
You guys are a bunch of a$$holes. I just moved onto about an acre and a half. My house is only 1500 sqft, so I was DROOLING over the land I could garden. I had a pretty decent garden at the rental when we moved back to MI.
Didn’t have the funds or the tools to do a garden this season. I am so PISSED right now reading y’all’s success stories (that competition thing?)
What I got out of gardening (besides lots of good eats). Pride. Pride pride pride. It’s like watching your kids grow up – really really fast!!! I called them my babies. Tomatoes were the first to blossom. I drug anyone within reach out to the garden to show off my babies. When my peppers started to come in, it was all over. EVERYONE got to take a tour of the garden.
Jealousy is a BITCH!!!. Well I’m getting a tiller and some fencing this winter when the prices are down. Y’all just wait till next season !!! We’ll have to get a page somewhere where we can all post pictures of our ‘babies’.
And thank-you Captain for confirming you are a liar:
I try never to post directly TO the TROLL. I will sometimes post ABOUT its posts, but I will not dignify what it says with a direct response to it.
Don’t ask it any questions.
Walk on by.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | August 09, 2007 at 12:57 AM
It is not right the way people who are fat are treated, but here is some good news:
LOS ANGELES, California (AP) — Valerie Bertinelli was used to hearing the f-word. F, as in fat, that is.The 47-year-old actress is enjoying a career rebound since she became a Jenny Craig spokeswoman and pledged to lose 30 pounds, which she has since revised to 40 pounds.”It’s so funny,” Bertinelli said. “If you say you’re fat, all of a sudden people like you! I’ve never had so many people be so kind and wonderful and giving and loving.”Viewers will see a heavier Bertinelli in her latest role, which she filmed before dropping more than 22 pounds. She plays a widowed psychic who helps catch a serial killer in the TV movie “Claire,” airing Saturday on the Hallmark Channel.Bertinelli was inspired by fellow Jenny Craig spokeswoman Kirstie Alley to go public with her weight battle.”If Kirstie was able to do it so boldly, with such a great sense of humor and be so successful at it, who am I to pretend that people don’t see that I’ve gained all this weight?” she said.”It took me a few days to prepare myself mentally. I thought, `Am I ready for this? It’s so public. What if I fail?’ Because of the response I’ve gotten from people, it’s the best job I’ve ever had,” she said.
There is hope for us.
GA–I believe the Cap’n was teasing you. Chill out.
Garden-fresh tomatoes are my favorite. Yum!
I can still get the “vine-ripe” ones at Safeway (here in Tucson), but it’s not the same.
I’m fat. Do you all like me now?Hehe.
Green Apple–
Yup. Thanks for reminding me.
From now on, I won’t talk to you.
maybe crab apple will pick on fat people like me today instead of gay people for a change.
I gotta figure out how to make shit grow in the desert. There is a place called “Home Grown Hydroponics” (wink, wink, nudge, nudge), but not exactly what I had in mind! :-)
Fresh garden produce . . . . yum.
Makes me miss my time as a kid in the country. I complained about weeding then; now, living in town, I think I’d kinda like the opportunity.
Great thread. I’m learning, just reading.
I agree, GMC, learning much by reading. Don’t miss the weeding (also grew up as a “country kid”, and recognized the truth of kfg’s statement about everyone running to the window to see who was driving down the road as well), but miss the produce from the garden. My various and assorted allergies always diminished the “joy” of yard/garden work, maybe that’s why I avoid them.
“Find a friend with a tiller and turn the new spot this FALL. You can then take the soil samples down to the county extension office and for free they will check your soil for ph and other goodies.”
Iowa Kid
Good idea, but I’d get the soil checked first… dig deep and mix the soil when taking samples.
Spread the adjustments, some sand if soil is too “clay”, compost, manure, etc over area, and then use tiller.
The great thing about sq ft gardening is…
NO WEEDING!
You keep adding compost to the soil, then plant close enough so no weeds go. And use scissors to cut any undesirable plants instead of pulling them up.
You can easily make your own compost. Any veggie or organic matter without salt will do.
I think they used to call that a “slop” bucket that went to the hogs…
It’s also “no till” without the herbicides.
And you can raise your beds as high as you want to save your middle aged back and knees…
Gardening, ugh.
I have a lawnmower. That’s gardening enough for me!
Yeah VT, I am a person displaced in time. Too modern to be old fashioned and too old fashioned to be modern. And I am cursed with that long and nostalgic, revisionist memory of mine.
hee hee hee Tom!
Ah, yes, the “slop bucket”. Remember it well. I guess this means we were composting as I was growing up, as we had such a bucket, but no hogs, and would empty the bucket from time to time “out behind the shed”. Just didn’t know what it was called back then.
“Gardening, ugh.
I have a lawnmower. That’s gardening enough for me!”
Heh, to each their own, Tom. My brother and sister-in-law have a fairly large garden (about 30′ X 5′, roughly), and yes, the tilling, weed pulling, etc, is a bit of a hassle (it pretty much REQUIRES copious amounts of beer! :-).
But you should have tasted their watermelon one season. The watery, bland store-bought doesn’t even compare!
And tomatoes? They’re VERY easy to grow. Hell, even I–Mr. Brown Thumb–can grow them.
Rage,
This is why one has friends with gardens. I just bring the beer. :)
I gotta figure out how to make shit grow in the desert.
Posted by: Rage | August 09, 2007 at 01:36 PM
Speaking of the word you used in your above post, here is some background:
Manure: In the 16th and 17th centuries, everything had to betransported by ship and it was also before commercial fertilizer’s invention, so large shipments of manure were common.
It was shipped dry, because in dry form it weighed a lot less than whenwet, but once water (at sea) hit it, it not only became heavier, but theprocess of fermentation began again, of which a byproduct is methane gas. As the stuff was stored below decks in bundles you can see what could (and did) happen.Methane began to build up below decks and the first time someone camebelow at night with a lantern, BOOOOM!Several ships were destroyed in this manner before it was determinedjust what was happening.After that, the bundles of manure were always stamped with the term”Ship High In Transit” on them, which meant for the sailors to stow it high enough off the lower decks so that any water that came into the hold would not touch this volatile cargo and start the production of methane.Thus evolved the term “S.H.I.T ” , (Ship High In Transport) which hascome down through the centuries and is in use to this very day.You probably did not know the true history of this word.Neither did I.I had always thought it was a golf term.
Tom’s right about that! Hehehehe.
Ok so I know some of you wont click on DU, but you will really miss something here if you dont. This is about a new book by Paul Hawken, one of my favorite writers.
He is one of the founders of Smith and Hawken gardening tools, the best in the world. In the 80’s he wrote one of my favorite of all time biz books called “Growing A Business” about how they did it with Smith and Hawken.
Now, his latest book talks about a new and as yet unidentified movement afoot that he sees and tries to help us see as well. Read this if you are too lazy to get the book. Or a preview before buying the book :)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132×3439244
maybe crab apple will pick on fat people like me today instead of gay people for a change.
Posted by: political_mom | August 09, 2007 at 01:33 PM
I don’t PICK on anyone or anyone’s orientation. I am just sick of hearing about it. Geez, I’m so sick of hearing about it I’m about to change my open mind.
I don’t talk about my lifestyle. Heck, you don’t and shouldn’t even know what it is. It’s not ANYones business but my own.
I’m for to each his own, as long as it does not infringe upon my rights and property.
I like my neighbors to be quiet, friendly. I don’t let it all hang out all around the neighborhood or in public. My neighbors and I don’t sit around and talk about anyones preferences.
And I probably just made this a whole lot worse. I should have stopped with I’m just tired of reading it day in and day out on the blog that I like reading most of the time.
“I had always thought it was a golf term.”
Hehehe! LOVE IT!
Thanks for the edification, Iowa Kid.
Good idea, but I’d get the soil checked first… dig deep and mix the soil when taking samples.
Spread the adjustments, some sand if soil is too “clay”, compost, manure, etc over area, and then use tiller.Posted by: cosmos | August 09, 2007 at 01:42 PM
I believe I could agree with your soil sample first. I definately would not spread or add anythinguntil I had the test results.
I suggested tilling first because that would get the poster looking at the freshly turned over soil all WINTER. A reminder for spring. Also, the tiller may mix the soil which would possibly make for better samples overall.
If the soil is in sod, and in town, you never know what you will get from each core sample. You might hit fill, or some other material which doesn’t represent the condition of the soil overall.
The County Extension Agent is available by telephone and can provide the poster the proper way of collecting soil samples.
Sorry Iowa, that is a myth
http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/shit.asp
Sorry Iowa, that is a myth
http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/shit.asp
Posted by: SolDevVB
Whew! That’s a relief. At least I did not tell a lie.
I kinda figured that myself, Solly, but it was a good chuckle nonetheless! :)
Anyone have tips on composting? I’d like to start, but have not the foggiest idea how. I have no mature leaves and my mower mulches. so no leaves and no lawn clippings. I would like to use food rubish though…
any clues?
“This is why one has friends with gardens. I just bring the beer.”
Careful, now. Y’all are starting to sound like capitalists.
Further, you’d do well to keep these trades secret so they won’t be taxed and regulated.
And the division of labor. Soon you’ll be generating wealth through this system of trade!
Compost on the cheap:
Get four wood pallets. Use coat hangers to hold them together as walls.
Wa la.
Now add materiel. Turn with pitch fork.
Compost piles = snake pit for me. Everyone I ever made, ended up a snake bed. :(
Fair enough. Thanx Iowa. How bad is the smell? i.e how far from the house should it be? Need anything to put on the ground?
Also – in the sticks and on well water. Any merit to having a rain bucket and watering the garden with that water instead of the well water? We have – hard – water up here. Little bit of an iron content and less sulfur.
“Compost piles = snake pit for me. Everyone I ever made, ended up a snake bed. :(
Posted by: Kansas | August 09, 2007 at 02:22 PM”
Where’s the problem? Meat and veggies
:)
Sol, any possibility of a cistern (BIG rain bucket) there? When growing up, we were also in the sticks and on well water that was also very hard, and wasn’t suitable for use for much of anything. Many a “boiler” full of water pumped from a cistern (hand pump) hauled to the garden in my wagon to water, when things were dry. Worked well, as I recall, better than the first year “experiment” with the well water.
Stock Market= losing money, turning kind of pale. Hoping it’s not too early to buy.
Congratulations, liberals, you have done a great job of destroying America and the West with your insane multicult pipe dreams for the past four decades. However, your time is almost up and the gloves are about to come off, et tu!11*11*11
http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-oppin095324956aug09,0,4825470.column
Pinkerton: Islamic extremists partner with MexicansJames P. Pinkerton
August 9, 2007
Article ToolsE-mail Print Single page view Reprints Reader feedback text size: There’s good news, bad news and worse news on the immigration issue.
The good news is that Congress and the White House are moving forward with prudent steps, gaining control of the border, securing the homeland against terrorism and reasserting American sovereignty.
The bad news is that, in the past four decades, we’ve lost a lot of time fighting off the open-borders advocates and the anti-Western multiculturalists. Even as we now seek elementary homeland security measures – so that we can be safe in a world awash with jihadists, narcotraffickers and weapons-of-mass-destruction peddlers – we must first undo the grievous policy choices championed, and enacted, by Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.) since 1965. Policies that were co-championed by quite a few Republicans, too, including George W. Bush.
Finally, the worse news is that the cheap-labor lobbyists, terrorists and world-governing globalists are all moving ahead with their various plans. That’s the conclusion to be drawn from an alarming story on the front page of yesterday’s Washington Times, which informed us that “Islamic extremists embedded in the United States – posing as Hispanic nationals – are partnering with violent Mexican drug gangs to finance terror networks in the Middle East, according to a Drug Enforcement Administration report.”
The DEA document, written and stamped “secret” in 2005, continues with these ominous words: “It is very likely that any future ‘September 11′ type of terrorist event in the United States may be facilitated, wittingly or unwittingly, by drug traffickers operating on both sides of the United States-Mexico border.”
The Times also revealed a second report, dated last year, from the Department of Homeland Security, that bolsters the DEA document: “Al Qaeda has been trying to smuggle terrorists and terrorist weapons illegally into the United States.” The report added that terrorist outfits “seek to smuggle OTMs [Other than Mexicans] from Middle Eastern countries into the U.S.”
One can assume that the Bush administration was desperate to keep a lid on all such information while pushing its “comprehensive” immigration reform, which would have “amnestied” 12 million people of unknown origin and “guest-workered” millions more. But now the truth is leaking out: In the damning verdict of Times reporter Sara A. Carter, “Nearly every part of the Border Patrol’s national strategy is failing.”
But at least Washington finally has woken up to the immigration-homeland security issue. Most politicians, under pressure from irate citizens, have figured out by now that more votes are to be gained by sticking up for American sovereignty than by letting it continue to be frittered away.
A case in point is Sen. Lindsey Graham. The South Carolina Republican was all primed and primped for his McCain Media Moment – defined as forsaking the dull folks back home in pursuit of newfound chums in more glamorous places, such as Manhattan and Los Angeles – when he found himself badly burned in the firestorm over “comprehensive” immigration reform, which he had strongly supported, in defiance of his constituents.
In June, Graham said of the doomed immigration bill, “This is the last, best chance we’ll have as a Congress.” The lawmaker’s argument to conservatives was that the only way to get better border enforcement through a Democratic-controlled Congress was by coupling it with amnesty for illegal immigrants. But that wasn’t true at all – as Graham himself demonstrated just weeks later when, eyeing his own re-election needs, he co-sponsored an extra $3 billion for border-enforcement and wall-building without any reference to amnesty of “guest workers.” That item passed the Senate 89-1; it will soon be law.
“More incremental steps are coming,” predicts Robert Rector, an anti-amnestyandpro-sovereignty strategist at the conservative-leaning Heritage Foundation. In particular, Rector foresees further action on border security, workplace enforcement and denying welfare to non-citizens.
So help is on the way, finally. The only question is how many more illegal immigrants – and terrorists – will get here first.
James P. Pinkerton’s e-mail address is pinkerto@ix.netcom.com.
more in /news/opinion
Copyright © 2007, Newsday Inc.
Iowa Kid,
I agree on tilling first, if area is sod, and/or fill dirt. It’s easiest and fastest way to find out what’s down there.
And if it’s really bad (rocks, etc) it might be worth removing and hauling off (or make raised beds) and getting some quality dirt.
Do not put meat or animal droppings in your compost. Food waste ok as long as it is not dairy.
Compost will not stink as long as you follow the above rules. Stir 3x per year. Water in fall and spring.
You can add starter get it at Ace or garden store.
If all you have to compost is a few food scraps (veggies, etc), you might want to try worm composting.
http://www.css.cornell.edu/compost/worms/basics.html
“The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation.”
They may well do that in the future anyway but they ain’t gonna do anything to piss off their best customer right now. I suspect both sides will let this rest until after the 2008 Olympics. But China is fastly replacing the old USSR as a global superpower and sooner or later it is going to flex its economic and maybe even military muscle. I am surprised that China has not attacked Tiwan yet.
China and the USA are like 2 people hanging over a cliff with one hand each holding on to ledge. If either lets go, both fall. China is smart enough to know that. And they cannot call in or sell the treasury bonds they hold until they are due. The only thing they can do is just not show up at the next treasury auction which would certainly force US interest rates up. The reason we enjoy low interest rates and high stock prices is because of all the foreign money flooding our banks and our markets.
Best thing I have found to get a Compost pile brewing is a couple cans of beer and molasses as a complex sugar, syrup also works for the sugar, also works good for yards with allot of dead grass clippings. Old Jerry Baker secret..
Great, we have a couple more years! Won’t happen on Bush’s watch, whew!Global warming will step up after 2009: scientists By Deborah Zabarenko, Environment Correspondent
2 hours, 16 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Global warming is forecast to set in with a vengeance after 2009, with at least half of the five following years expected to be hotter than 1998, the warmest year on record, scientists reported on Thursday.
ADVERTISEMENT
Climate experts have long predicted a general warming trend over the 21st century spurred by the greenhouse effect, but this new study gets more specific about what is likely to happen in the decade that started in 2005.
To make this kind of prediction, researchers at Britain’s Met Office — which deals with meteorology — made a computer model that takes into account such natural phenomena as the El Nino pattern in the Pacific Ocean and other fluctuations in ocean circulation and heat content.
A forecast of the next decade is particularly useful, because climate could be dominated over this period by these natural changes, rather than human-caused global warming, study author Douglas Smith said by telephone.
In research published in the journal Science, Smith and his colleagues predicted that the next three or four years would show little warming despite an overall forecast that saw warming over the decade.
“There is … particular interest in the coming decade, which represents a key planning horizon for infrastructure upgrades, insurance, energy policy and business development,” Smith and his co-authors noted.
The real heat will start after 2009, they said.
Until then, the natural forces will offset the expected warming caused by human activities, such as the burning of fossil fuels, which releases the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide.
“HINDCASTS” FOR THE FUTURE
“There is … particular interest in the coming decade, which represents a key planning horizon for infrastructure upgrades, insurance, energy policy and business development,” Smith and his co-authors noted.
To check their models, the scientists used a series of “hindcasts” — forecasts that look back in time — going back to 1982, and compared what their models predicted with what actually occurred.
Factoring in the natural variability of ocean currents and temperature fluctuations yielded an accurate picture, the researchers found. This differed from other models which mainly considered human-caused climate change.
“Over the 100-year timescale, the main change is going to come from greenhouse gases that will dominate natural variability, but in the coming 10 years the natural internal variability is comparable,” Smith said.
In another climate change article in the online journal Science Express, U.S. researchers reported that soot from industry and forest fires had a dramatic impact on the Arctic climate, starting around the time of the Industrial Revolution.
Industrial pollution brought a seven-fold increase in soot — also known as black carbon — in Arctic snow during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, scientists at the Desert Research Institute found.
Soot, mostly from burning coal, reduces the reflectivity of snow and ice, letting Earth’s surface absorb more solar energy and possibly resulting in earlier snow melts and exposure of much darker underlying soil, rock and sea ice. This in turn led to warming across much of the Arctic region.
At its height from 1906 to 1910, estimated warming from soot on Arctic snow was eight times that of the pre-industrial era, the researchers said.
Is it just me or does Lou Heldman resemble Tom Bosley?
HOT DAMN !!!!
GM signs battery pact, aims to leapfrog Toyota in plug-in hybrid race
http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/NEWS03/707090379/-1/nletter02
GM signs battery pact, aims to leapfrog Toyota in plug-in hybrid race
My hybrid doesn’t plug in.
The U.S. State Department’s new program to reduce the bumper opium poppy crops in Afghanistan, and stop the funneling of opium profits to the Taliban and terrorists, involves financial incentives and “punishment”. We know that the financial incentives will not work. In the past, when Afghans got financial incentives to stop growing poppies, they took the money, laughed, and went to the other side of the hill to plant more poppies. So we have to rely on the “punishment”.If the “punishment” involves massive repeated applications of defoliants and sending lots of opium growers, smugglers, and drug lords to Gitmo, then that could work.I have big doubts, however, about eliminating this big threat to America’s security. I think Americans need to relearn how to fight a war.
And if it’s really bad (rocks, etc) it might be worth removing and hauling off (or make raised beds) and getting some quality dirt.
Posted by: cosmos | August 09, 2007 at 02:44 PM
Or deciding to go buy veggies instead!
It’s also useful for new soil. Turn it once in fall to open it up and then again in spring before planting. Get’s moisture in. My problem is too much moisture in the spring to get into the garden as early as possible.
What Dr. Michaels claims is “huge news” is actually no news at all.
He used the obvious trick of comparing the maximums, instead of the midpoints on a “narrower” range, and ignored other factors.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8149“by Patrick J. Michaels”The IPCC now projects, in its mid-range scenario for carbon dioxide emissions, that the maximum rise in global sea level in this century will be around 17 inches. That’s a reduction of 30 percent from what was in the Third Scientific Assessment [TAR], published just six years ago.
That’s huge news, or it should be.”
Page 13 and 14 of the SPM at, (emphasis added)http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/wg1-report.html“Model-based projections of global average sea level rise at the end of the 21st century (2090–2099) are shown in Table SPM.3. For each scenario, the MIDPOINT of the range in Table SPM.3 is within 10% of the TAR model average for 2090–2099.
The ranges are NARROWER than in the TAR mainly because of improved information about some uncertainties in the projected contributions….TAR projections were made for 2100, whereas projections in this report are for 2090–2099.
The TAR would have had SIMILAR ranges to those in Table SPM.3 if it had treated the uncertainties in the same way.”
More at ‘The IPCC sea level numbers’http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/the-ipcc-sea-level-numbers
ENOUGH ON MANURE AND GARDENS!I can’t take it anymore!
What about Bushy, Bushy, Bushy.
Green apple,
Does the term “Open Thread” confuse you?
Sol – I heard Ron Paul on the radio yesterday morning, talking about the economy and China. He said he wants to go back to gold backed currency. I guess we stopped that in 1972? What do you think of that?
Also, thanks for the Skippy list, it was hilarious.
“What about Bushy, Bushy, Bushy.Posted by: Green Apple | August 09, 2007 at 03:57 PM ”
Well Green, with the right soil and enough compost and water, your bushy can grow to be nice and full. And with proper care and grooming, your bushy can be the envy of all your neighbors. I bet there are several sites online to help select the right style for your particular bushy needs.
Actually Green Apple, it’s nice to see everyone talking instead of hurling insults.
Amazing how well diverse people get along when they don’t discuss politics.
The Masonic Lodge has a rule. You don’t discuss politics or religion in the lodge.
Maybe they’re onto something, lol!
The Masonic Lodge has a rule. You don’t discuss politics or religion in the lodge.
Maybe they’re onto something, lol!
Posted by: XXX | August 09, 2007 at 04:18 PM
Now, outside, over coffee and donuts? Different story. More politics than religion
Looks like Bush’s Fed. is a follower instead of a leader.Central banks move to calm panicky money markets By Randall Palmer and Stella Dawson
1 hour, 32 minutes ago
OTTAWA/FRANKFURT (Reuters) – Major central banks swept in to calm credit markets spooked by mounting losses on Thursday, with the European Central Bank injecting record amounts of cash to prevent the financial system from seizing up.
ADVERTISEMENTU.S. President George W. Bush also sought to calm fears that a credit market squeeze would shake economic growth, telling a news conference both the global and U.S. economy were strong.
“I’m told there is enough liquidity in the system to enable markets to correct,” Bush said.
The Bank of Canada said it was in contact with other central banks on the global situation and stood ready to add money as needed.
The European Central Bank pumped a record 94.8 billion euros ($130.6 billion) into Europe’s money markets as banks scrambled for cash after France’s biggest listed bank, BNP Paribas (BNPP.PA), froze withdrawals from three funds. It cited U.S. subprime mortgage market problems.
Another European fund valued at 750 million euros was frozen too, and a Dutch bank pulled its planned new listing after suffering subprime losses.
The U.S. Federal Reserve and the Bank of Canada both pumped in money through regular operations aimed at bringing benchmark overnight interest rates back to target. The Fed injected $24 billion and the Bank of Canada C$1.64 billion ($1.55 billion) — in both cases more than normal, but amounts analysts said did not reflect an emergency injection of liquidity.
Michael Darda, chief economist at MKM Partners in Greenwich, Connecticut, said the Fed injection of funds was a normal response to funds trading above target. Strong demand had pushed the federal funds rate up to 5.5 percent, above the 5.25 percent Fed target, but it retreated to 5.438 percent.
“It’s a mini-panic, and we are seeing demand for short-term credit,” he said. “We are not seeing a so-called ‘credit crunch’ in the U.S. money market.”
Nonetheless, U.S. interest rate swaps, a measure of market risk appetite, widened sharply on renewed credit worries. Stocks fell and investors piled into the safety of bonds, pushing down the yield on U.S. Treasuries and European government debt.
In Europe, traders said cash markets were seizing up until the ECB acted. “There appears to be a dash for cash both in dollars and in euros,” said Nick Parsons, head of market strategy at nabCapital in London.
The ECB tried to calm markets by injecting the largest amount of money ever in a single operation, saying “the aim was to assure orderly conditions in the euro money market.” It routinely holds quick market operations when there is a cash imbalance but not since after the U.S. terror attacks in 2001 has the size neared Thursday’s level.
The BNP problems had sent jitters through European markets already rife with rumors of worsening troubles in Germany. The Bundesbank hosted a meeting with banks involved in the rescue of Europe’s highest profile subprime victim yet, lender IKB (IKBG.DE), to arrange details of its 3.5 billion euro bailout.
“Nobody wants to lend any money. It’s safety first.” said Karen Birzler, a money market trader at HVB in Munich.
The cost for banks to borrow money overnight in the euro one, the world’s second largest economic region, shot up to 4.62 percent, the highest since shortly after the 2001 U.S. attacks, and above the ECB’s 4 percent target.
Only when the ECB offered banks extra cash to assure orderly conditions did rates return to normal.
WATCHING THE FED
A Zurich-based money market trader called market conditions “crazy” since Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke has given no signal of concern that credit markets could undo the real economy.
“The market is acting like a yo-yo. It’s all very psychological. The possibility of a credit crunch returning is starting to spook everyone,” he said.
A rates strategist at a large European bank in London said that fear of a scarcity of liquidity, whether irrational or otherwise, was taking hold.
“It’s about lines of credit, fear that credit lines will be called and institutions will have to make money available to others who are facing big credit-related losses,” he said.
U.S. dollar deposit rates for tomorrow/next day delivery surged by more than half a point, before easing back. It was the first time since December 2000 they had jumped over half a point in a single day, according to Reuters data.
The scramble for cash forced traders to unwind so-called carry trades, where low-yielding currencies are sold to finance purchases of higher yielding assets. This sparked a broad-based yen rally, but the surge in short-term dollar deposit rates lent the dollar support against most other major currencies.
(Additional reporting by David Milliken, Eva Kuehnen and Catherine Hornby in Frankfurt; Thomas Atkins in Zurich; Natsuko Waki, Sumeet Desai, Mike Dolan in London; Tamawa Kadoya in New York)
Email Story IM Story Printable View RECOMMEND THIS STORYRecommend It:
Average (23 votes)» Recommended Stories
Gold as our currency would be great! There are many reasons why, but the simplest is this: it takes the creation of money out of the government’s hands. Politicians, unless they are willing to get dirty working in a gold mine, would not be able to create money at their pleasure, which is what happens now.
Screwing over the old boeing workers was a sweet deal for Onex!”During the quarter, Onex took in C$361 million in proceeds from the sale of some of its shares of Spirit AeroSystems (SPR.N: Quote, Profile, Research). A fund Onex operates also sold stock, from which it received part of the proceeds. It said this brought the total value that Onex has received on the Spirit deal, as well as the value of its continuing ownership in the company, to more than C$1 billion — eight times its investment.”
Anon,”Gold as our currency would be great!”
Was, for many centuries. Unfortunately, there just isn’t enough to serve an economy the size of ours, and besides, it’s just too damn heavy! And, at cuurent prices, a one dollar coin would be about the size of a sequin. Can you imagine trying to find that in your pocket?
“Screwing over the old boeing workers was a sweet deal for Onex!
Posted by: The Phantom | August 09, 2007 at 04:37 PM ”
Those workers have noone but themselves and their union to blame. If they had worked hard rather than relying on seniority they would have never been in a position where they would be bought.
The dollar is on a de facto oil standard. It’s the only currency you can use to buy oil on the global markets, and it’s a commodity _every_ nation needs. The fungible nature and portability of oil makes it the perfect standard of exchange. (Well, for now, at least)
Jed, we don’t have to use gold as the actuall currency. Paper or electronic dollars convertable to gold at request will do.
And, there is plenty of gold, my friend.
I would say to you, Tom, the the dollar is not backed by oil in the same way that dollars backed by gold are in a gold standard. The quantity of gold-backed dollars is fixed. No dollars can be issued without the gold in a vault somewhere to back up that dollar. This situation doesn’t exist with oil. Countries all over the world create new fiat money without regard to how much oil is produced.
The alternative to gold, my friends, is government creating money at its pleasure, sometimes through the printing press, sometimes by electronic journal entry.
Do you know who gets to spend those newly-created dollars first? George W. Bush, that’s who.
And who suffers the loss of purchasing power each year because of these newly-created dollars? I shall let you figure out the answer to that.
“OTTAWA/FRANKFURT (Reuters) – Major central banks swept in to calm credit markets spooked by mounting losses on Thursday, with the European Central Bank injecting record amounts of cash to prevent the financial system from seizing up.”
The absolute WORST thing the central banks can do is turn a short term market problem into a long term inflation problem and by flooding economies with paper that is exactly what will happen. We certainly do not want a repeat of the 1970-1983 period again. The markets will correct in the next few weeks and be fine again without any intervention. The global economy is still very strong and nowhere near trouble.
The alternative to gold, my friends, is government creating money at its pleasure, sometimes through the printing press, sometimes by electronic journal entry.
Do you know who gets to spend those newly-created dollars first? George W. Bush, that’s who.
Posted by: anonymous | August 09, 2007 at 05:27 PM
Slightly off. A secret entity with zero transparancy, under NO federal regulation. Enter, the feder reserve. Do a little research, unless you enjoy sleeping at night…
anyone notice an ‘al’ missing in that post (damn wireless key board). Please place an ‘al’ in the most convenient location.
Anon,Plenty of gold, my friend?
“In 2001, it was estimated that all the gold ever mined totalled 145,000 tonnes.[2] As one metric tonne equals 1,000 kilograms (or 32,150 troy ounces), this equated to a value of US$3 trillion in April 2006.[3] For comparison, the entire global market capitalization for all stock markets was US$43.6 trillion in March 2006.”-Wikipedia-
Anon,The amount of U.S. currency in circulation is about $668 billion. The current U.S. gold reserves total about $164 billion.
Jed, are you saying that the amount of gold must be equal to the value of the corporations?
If so, that is an idea that I have never heard anyone advance.
Shares of corporations are not money.
If there must be money equal to shares, then M2 right now is some $7 billion, so we’re pretty short on it!
And if there must be money equal to shares in corporations, why not money equal to all other assets?
I don’t agree with your reasoning.
Lets face it… the Street might look good… but the country is in deep kaka if china calls the debt…. Be afraid, be very afraid!!
I recently attended a lecture titled “The Path to Sound Money” which described a path to return to a gold dollar.
I must confess that I got lost in the details, but I will listen again until I learn.
There is no doubt that it would be a difficult path. But the benefits of taking the creation of money away from politicians is so great that we must do this.
I ask you: are you content to let the current government create billions of new money at no cost to itself, but at great cost to you and me?
With gold as our currency, do you know that the government would be tightly constrained in its ability to borrow, that is, to run deficits?
I though we were all mad at the current administration for its deficits.
Now, outside, over coffee and donuts? Different story. More politics than religion
Posted by: littlejohn | August 09, 2007 at 04:22 PM
lj, do we have mutual interests in the east?
I’m not sure the market can handle the credit crunch to wit the following.Dow Sinks 387 on Renewed Credit ConcernsThursday August 9, 7:57 pm ET
By Tim Paradis, AP Business Writer
Dow Plunges 387 on Deepening Fears About a Spreading Credit Crunch
NEW YORK (AP) — Wall Street’s deepening fears about a spreading credit crunch sent stocks plunging again Thursday, with the Dow Jones industrials extending their series of triple-digit swings and falling more than 380 points. The catalyst for the market’s latest skid: a French bank’s announcement that it was freezing three funds that invested in U.S. subprime mortgages.ADVERTISEMENTThe announcement by BNP Paribas raised the specter of a widening impact of U.S. credit market problems. The idea that anyone — institutions, investors, companies, individuals — can’t get money when they need it unnerved a stock market that has suffered through weeks of volatility triggered by concerns about tight credit and bad subprime mortgages.
A move by the European Central Bank to provide more cash to money markets intensified Wall Street’s angst. Although the bank’s loan of more than $130 billion in overnight funds to banks at a low rate of 4 percent was intended to calm investors, Wall Street saw it as confirmation of the credit markets’ problems. It was the ECB’s biggest injection ever.
The Federal Reserve added a larger-than-normal $24 billion in temporary reserves to the U.S. banking system.
The concerns that arose in Europe and spilled onto Wall Street underscored the potential worldwide ramifications of an implosion of some subprime loans and perhaps also weakened arguments that strength in the global economy could help keep profit growth going in the U.S. among large companies that do business overseas.
The ECB’s injection of money into the system is an unprecedented move, said Joseph V. Battipaglia, chief investment officer at Ryan Beck & Co., adding that it shows that problems in subprime lending are, in fact, spreading into the general economy.
“This is a mini-panic,” he said. “All the things that had been denied up until this point are unraveling. On top of this, retail sales were mediocre, which shows that indeed, the housing collapse is affecting the consumer.”
Retailers released July sales figures Thursday that were overall disappointing.
The Fed didn’t soften its stance on inflation after leaving short-term interest rates unchanged Tuesday. However, the renewed credit market concerns spurred bond traders who bet on its next move to predict that the Fed will cut rates at its meeting next month. Before Thursday, traders had bet on a 1 in 4 chance of such a cut.
The Dow fell 387.18, or 2.83 percent, to 13,270.68.
Thursday’s pullback continued an erratic pattern of triple-digit moves in the Dow since the index closed at a record 14,001.41 on July 19. Eleven of the 15 ensuing sessions have ended in a triple-digit gain or loss. Gains have been evaporating at the first mention of trouble in housing, subprime lending or the credit markets.
With Thursday’s decline, the Dow is about 730 points, or 5.2 percent, below its record close. Some experts have been calling for a textbook correction — a pullback of at least 10 percent. At its lowest close since the market’s high, Friday’s finish of 13,181.91, the Dow was 5.85 percent below the record.
Bonds rose sharply Thursday as investors again sought the relative safety of Treasurys, pushing down the yield on the benchmark 10-year note to 4.79 percent from 4.89 percent late Wednesday.
The broader Standard & Poor’s 500 index fell 44.40, or 2.96 percent, to 1,453.09.
Before Thursday, the S&P had its best three-day winning streak in nearly five years. But the latest pullback was the biggest point drop and percentage loss for both the Dow and the S&P since a market decline on Feb. 27., that owed in part to concerns about subprime loans.
The Nasdaq composite index fell 56.49, or 2.16 percent, to 2,556.49. On Wednesday, it posted its biggest point gain in more than year. And while Thursday’s loss was sharp, last Friday’s was more severe.
Despite Thursday’s slide, the major market indexes are still up for the week, given that stocks rose sharply the first three sessions of the week.
The pullback came after a BNP Paribas unit said it was suspending three funds together worth about $3.79 billion and wouldn’t make investor redemptions until it could determine net asset values.
The funds invest in part in subprime mortgages through a process known as securitization. Investment banks bundle together mortgages — including those from subprime borrowers — and sell them off to investors such as hedge funds, mutual funds and other institutional investors. Buyers of such securities are seeking the steady flow of income from homeowners making their mortgage payments.
“It just kind of brought the fear back,” said Douglas Peta, market strategist at J.& W. Seligman in New York.
“In the last couple of days I think people maybe thought that an all-clear had been sounded,” he said referring to some of the subprime loan concerns.
“This just highlights that there is not going to be an immediate resolution,” he said of the companies that are trying to determine their exposure to bad subprime loans.
Shares of financial companies, which investors have fled recently amid lending concerns, took another beating Thursday. Citigroup Inc. fell 5 percent, as did fellow Dow component JPMorgan Chase & Co.
In another sign of credit market trouble, Home Depot Inc. warned that the sale of its wholesale business might bring in less than expected. The world’s largest home improvement retailer, which also cut how much it intends to pay to repurchase stock, said volatility in the stock, debt and housing markets has led to the possible repricing. Home Depot fell $2.01, or 5.3 percent, to $35.79, and was the worst performer of the 30 Dow components.
But American International Group Inc., one of the world’s largest insurers, on Thursday reassured investors that it remains comfortable with its exposure to the subprime lending market as an investor, lender and mortgage insurer. AIG, which reported a 34 percent jump in second-quarter profit late Wednesday, said it has enough cash and liquidity and “does not need to liquidate any investment securities in a chaotic market.”
AIG fell $2.18, or 3.3 percent, to $64.30, however.
The dollar was mixed against other major currencies, while gold prices fell. Light, sweet crude fell 56 cents to $71.59 per barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.
Declining issues outnumbered advancers by about 4 to 1 on the New York Stock Exchange, where consolidated volume came to a heavy 5.76 billion shares compared with 5.3 billion shares traded Wednesday.
The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies fell 10.79, or 1.36 percent, to 784.87.
The Chicago Board Options Exchange’s volatility index, often called the “fear index,” rose Thursday to its highest level since April 2003.
European stocks plunged. Britain’s FTSE 100 lost 1.92 percent, Germany’s DAX index fell 2.00 percent, and France’s CAC-40 fell 2.17 percent after being down more than 3 percent. Japan’s Nikkei stock average rose 0.83 percent. Hong Kong’s Hang Seng index fell 0.43 percent
If the liquidity dries up, the markets will not function properly, with out draconian adjustments.
The bush economic expansion has for the past few years been fueled by liquidity. The tax cuts for the wealthy combined with huge deficit spending, and the war spending. The monster demands to be fed.
Anon,All I’m saying is that there is more money in circulation daily than there is gold to back it up. The finite stores of gold would have to increase about ten-fold in order for our economy to function. Since gold has very few industrial uses, it’s value is only what the market says it is, and that fluctuates considerably.That would mean for a stable economy, gold prices would again have to be fixed by governments. Therefore, it would be no different than what we have now. The gold standard has always been a myth.
There are some who would have Government pass more gun ’safety’ laws in the guise of more gun control laws.
There are some who would have these Government safety laws attempt to legislate away stupidity, when in fact, thinking people know that is not possible.
Yet, I will demonstrate here the stupidity of one poster, and his later pleas to have laws pass to keep him safe from his own stupidity.
That’s right, to keep him safe from himself!
To start out, here’s the post in reference:
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/12/respect_busines.html#comment-27121021
The Stupid Gun Users Post:
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/12/respect_busines.html#comment-27121021
Anyway, I can’t believe that you have as much experience with guns as you act like you have, or you’d know how inherently dangerous they are.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | August 09, 2007 at 12:30 AM
Capn, can’t beleive you question MY expertise!
**I’ve been hunting and seen a guy hit a wounded squirrel with the butt of his shotgun, the gun discharged and SINGED THE HAIR ON THE SIDE OF THEIR HEAD.
Capn – assuming you were dumb enough to hit a squirrel with the but of a shotgun (and not skilled enough to kill the squirrel with the proper end), if you were practicing safe gun use, the safety would have been on safe, the finger would have been off the trigger, and there would not have been an accidental shot fired.
**I myself one time accidentally brushed the barrel of my shotgun up against an electric fence–the resulting shock caused me to involuntary drop the gun, which fortunately did not go off and shoot my buddy.
Good, maybe the safety was on safe, you did not have your finger on the trigger, and the drop test of the gun passed.
**My brother and I were “playing army” with my dad’s M-1 carbine one day. We thought the gun was unloaded because the clip was detached from the rifle. Unfortunately what we forgot was that there was still one in the chamber–KA BLAM! A shot lodged in the cedar panelling of our basement.
Duh, you don’t have the gun safety on safe(if it has one), you don’t keep your finger off the trigger, you don’t check the chamber for a round, and after 3 mistakes, THREE MISTAKES, the gun still fires as you “play with it”, and since you followed ONE rule – pointing the gun in a safe direction, no one was killed or injured.
How much product safety can a gun manufacturer build into a firearm, when stupid untrained people “play with guns” without being properly trained?
None of these incidents was the fault of the gun manufacturer Capn.
You and your companions were just being very stupid and negligent in your use of a firearm.
Similar accidents happen with negligent users of:
CarsNail gunsHammersStaplersetc….
You cannot legislate away stupidity, no matter how hard you try!
When I taught my kids how to shoot clay targets, one shell was loaded at a time.
Until I could trust them.
Capn, you think the Trap range you were at required YOU to just load one shell at a time had a reason for doing that?
Even when you were shooting doubles!
Ha Ha Ha Ha! Probably a good reason for that.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/12/respect_busines.html#comment-27121021
Capn, I know for some of these stupid acts you say you were a kid.
Where were you parents who gave you access to guns at a young age?
Did they teach you anything?
Were they not around?
Ya, that’s your excuse.
Government should have a law mandating all guns should be locked up. So the kids don’t play with them.
How old were you Capn when you were out on your Big Game Squirrel hunt with your friend?
Well, short of Big Brother going house to house to enforce this law, how would such a law have protected a couple of kids, Capn?
Maybe the Government should have raised you instead of the your parents.
Yes, the Government knows it all.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/12/respect_busines.html#comment-27121021
Max, ummmm….. WTF?
Blog Editor,
I know you will get a request to remove my posts, from Capn.
Why?
Because I quoted himself, posted a link to himself, and now he’s gonna ask that his own quotes be removed.
Why?
Because he was stupid.
So go ahead and remove all stupid posts. Not many posts will be left, but go ahead.
And Capn will be happy then. He’ll be able to hide from his own words.
And that is the role of the Blog Editor.
To make sure all Liberal posters look good. And when they don’t remove their own stupid words.
That’s the only chance you Libs have – to censor yourselves!
Tom, please email your buddy Capn, and tell him to come defend himself!
Max–
I’m glad you live in Oregon.
Stay there.
Wacko . . .
HEY!!!
I’m _from_ Oregon. It’s a nice place. I miss it. Hopefully I can talk my partner into retiring there…
Anyway, I didn’t email Capn like you said, Max; it must have been my ESP. And now my ability to read the future says it’s gonna get ugly on the Open Thread (and it’s been so PEACEFUL here today!). So I’m gonna head home, and leave my laptop at work for a change.
Nite all.
By your own words, you shall sink your own ship Capn. Your only recourse is a feeble attempt to discredit the one who reposted your own words.
Though you were never Capn of anything, except in your own warped mind.
Time to put away your garden tools….
And no, I’ve never lived in Oregon, though I too have heard it’s a nice place to live.
How much you wanna bet Capn is furiously searching Google for some good stuff on Max?
Make my day!
Forget to take your meds today, Max?
You doom us, Jed. We don’t have a table economy as it is.
And there are adjustements that the market will make in terms of the price of gold under a gold standard, the general price level, and the velocity of money.
I am surprised you have such faith in governments over markets in these matters. You despise the current adminstration so (and I am not a fan myself), yet you are willing to trust it with our money.
Nah, Max, you can relax.
I posted that with the full knowledge that everytime someone reveals anything about themselves, their political enemies will try to ridicule and demean them with it.
Because I speak out on behalf of the poor, people like you assumed that I grew up poor, so they ridiculed me for having “unsuccessful” parents.
When I pointed out that in fact my dad had a thriving dental practice and I grew up in a big house on a farm, then I was a “spoiled rich kid” who was just waiting to collect my parents’ money when they die.
I kid you not. I could dream of this vile shit to make it up.
That’s how you people do it.
Re-post away, loser.
I could NOT dream this up, I mean . . .
Also, you’re going to make a lot of hillbillies made at you if you ridicule squirrel hunting.
They’re not people you want to get mad at you. And damn good shots.
Nothing wrong with Squirrel shooting. Done some myself. Surprisingly to those who haven’t they are very smart at avoiding predators, and you must be very crafty to catch em!
Nothing so peaceful as being deep in the woods with no sound except for your heartbeat, trying to stay still enough to catch a squirrel or two.
Capn, don’t worry about it. You are human too. All make mistakes, even you.
In the midst of a couple of battles, I even complimented you in the past, if you remember.
Your bright, though a little misdirected to the left. Gain some more age (I suspect you are younger then me and most others on this blog), and you may go in the RIGHT direction afterall!
Freedom is being independent of any of the political parties, and advocating the right thing, not necessarily the popular thing.
Capn, you are very popular and respected on this blog. Taking the popular stance is not always the right stance though.
Thank you, Max.
Now we return you to our regularly scheduled “Open Blog.”
Next topic–Tomato “suckers”
Pick them off or leave them on?
“August 7, 2007, 6:33 pmSpeechless in ChicagoJay Solomon reports on controversy over a planned speech.”
“The Chicago Council on Global Affairs has canceled a September speech on U.S.-Israel relations and Washington’s pro-Israel lobby by two prominent U.S. political scientists.”
“John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt were scheduled to use the Sept. 27 address to outline their upcoming book, “The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy,” which is expected to be released by Farrar, Straus & Giroux early next month. But the president of the Chicago Council, Marshall Bouton, canceled the event under pressure from critics who were uncomfortable with the academics’ arguments, according to a letter drafted by Mearsheimer and Walt to the Council’s board.”
“These opponents of the event argued that the two political scientists could only address the Chicago Council if someone from the opposing side, “such as Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League, concurrently appeared on stage with the authors.”
“One might argue that our views are too controversial to be presented on their own,” Mearsheimer and Walt wrote. “However, they are seen as controversial only because some of the groups and individuals that we criticized in our original article have misrepresented what we said.”
“Mearsheimer, a political scientist at the University of Chicago, and Walt, on the faculty at Harvard, set off a political firestorm last year when they penned an article for the London Review of Books, called the “Israel Lobby,” that argued pro-Israel interest groups had distorted U.S. policies in the Middle East. They also argued that these groups played a central role in promoting the Bush administration’s decision to invade Iraq.”
“Since the original article appeared in March 2006, the two academics have appeared at a number of ventures to explain their views, such as the Council on Foreign Relations, the National Press Club and Georgetown University. But a number of leading Jewish-American organizations, such as the ADF and the American Jewish Congress, have consistently charged that Mearsheimer’s and Walt’s views are anti-Semitic and overemphasize the power of the pro-Israel lobby.”
“Mearsheimer and Walt deny being anti-Semites and said the charges are designed “to discourage respected organizations like the Council from giving us an audience.”
You know Ed, the topic is now tomatoes. Jewish and non-Jewish people love tomatoes. God, I hope Ed you love something, and if it’s not tomatoes, I don’t know if there is any home for you!
Actually, tomato sucker pruning I’ve read is dependent on whether the tomato is a determinate or indeterminate variety. One ya prune, the other ya don’t, and I forget the difference.
All I do is take off the diaganol branches of the younger plants for the first 12-18″ of the plant. After that, I stop pruning.
BLT’s with fresh T – heaven.
That’s all I know.
Home vs hope, is there a difference?
I heard something similar, Max.
Cut off the suckers when the plants are small, since the suckers pull energy from the plant.
But when the plants are bigger, leave them on. The more leaves, the tastier the tomatoes.
We had a tomato that we bought at the grocery store still left in the refrige.
So my wife and I did a taste test.
The “strip mined” tomato was immature, hardly any flesh inside, tasteless and chewy.
The homegrown “better boy” was much more fleshy and tasted like a tomato with tomato flavor added.
We just threw the store-bought on to the compost heap.
And to think that’s what we’re satisfied with 9 months of the year . . .
Bush Vs. Zombieshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoXgRtDysLY
I’m all out of peanuts now…
hey max,
take it up the ass in the market today?
yuk yuk yuk
Except for organic tomatoes, and a few varieties like ‘vine-ripe’, the “store-bought” tomato is best described as soggy pink cardboard.
If I’m not mistaken Max, for roses and tomatoes it’s called “nipping it in the bud.”
To prevent too much stalk and more fruit/flower.
Anon,Trading one unstable economy for another serves no purpose (unless you’re heavily invested in bullion), and the free market is anything but stable. And while I have no sympathy whatsoever for our current administration, it has only a minimal effect on the economy. Marxism’s primary error was to assume that an economy is controllable. Too many complicating factors to make one even predictable.PS. I’ve kept a professional eye on the gold market for the last 40 years, and I wouldn’t consider investing any serious amount of money there. Remember the Hunt Brothers.
The Hunt brothers cornered silver, not gold. Gold is the one that looks bright yellow.
Why Ed, not some drooling spittle laced comment about the ZOG and black helicopters coming out of the clouds to shoot little Palestinian children? Are you not feeling well? Swatika in the cleaners today?
There is only one economic factor that determines value of any “thing” or commodity or any service or function.
“whatever the market will bear.”
All else is speculation, anything ov monetary is only worth as much as someone else is willing to pay for it.
Basing our economic model on anything but that variable can prove disastrous for the consumer class, because “rich” folk like the Hunts can thereby monopolize markets that, left to free-market devices,would establish the price at the limits of its demand.
As long aw supply-siders think they have a better chance of profiting with their “corner the market”, trickle down monopolist models, they will continue to send our markets into these psycho-economic tailspins.
Ed,Yes, the Hunt Bros tried to corner silver and lost their shirts, but they carried the price of gold along with them for a few weeks. I knew investors at the time who bought into gold when it was about $800oz, and lost big-time when it fell to about $225oz.
This is such a wonderful and informative way to reach others. I Will be more than glad to share this site
This is one super duper site
Hi, I really apreciated this website! Thanks