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Open thread 8/8
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Aug. 8, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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317 Comments
Well Sedgwick County you got your vote on Casinos now it is time to move on to other things.
Congratulations Wichita!!!!!
Now billionaire Ruffin can stop pretending to be a Kansan and go back to Nevada.
The people have spoken.
Well, now that we got rid of any adult type entertainment I think we can now focus on immediately stopping any work on the new Colosseum and then stopping any investment in the WaterWalk.
Now we have shown the developers who is in charge here, so they can now go somewhere else….which is just what they will do.
We need to institute Intelligent Design not only in the schools but in the workplace and get Wichita back into the 1950’s as soon as possible.
This will enhance our lifestyle and help keep our young graduates here in Wichita enabling them to have a wonderful life and career as a bank teller.
An excellent new U.N site,
http://www.un.org/climatechange/
“United Nations:Taking Action on Climate Change
Finding out the facts
* The UN has assisted in bringing the best science, the likely impacts and the probable costs to the attention of governments and the general public through the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
* “Unequivocal” is the word it now uses on the links between human activities — from burning fossil fuels to cutting of forests — and climate change. ”
Lots of facts, news, and info at the link — it’s a very good site to add to your ‘Favorites’ list.
Ahem. . .any chance of a commutation for ME, George?
Sincerely,Tom Tamm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20121795/site/newsweek/
P.S. Going down Memory Lane:
“Q Do you think that the Justice Department can conduct an impartial investigation, considering the political ramifications of the CIA leak, and why wouldn’t a special counsel be better?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Let me just say something about leaks in Washington. There are too many leaks of classified information in Washington. There’s leaks at the executive branch; there’s leaks in the legislative branch. There’s just too many leaks. And if there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is. And if the person has violated law, the person will be taken care of. ”
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/09/20030930-9.html
“Taken care of” about sums it up, huh?
Park City is going to look barren. Wild West World, Optima Bus, Grey Hound Park and soon the Kansas Coliseum. All closed, all empty.
Damn! Dee Stuart really will have to answer to the people for an extremely failed administration and leadership.
===========================================Don’t print out that spreadsheet just yet!===========================================
Xerox introduces ‘green’ printer paper
AP
“STAMFORD, Conn. – Xerox Corp. on Monday unveiled a new paper it says uses half as many trees as traditional paper and reduces mailing costs.
The office equipment maker’s new paper for digital printing uses pulp that is produced by grinding wood into papermaking pulp instead of using the more widespread chemical pulping process.
Xerox also says its new paper uses 90 percent of a tree, twice the proportion typically used to manufacture paper for digital printers. It also requires less water and fewer chemicals and is produced in a plant using hydroelectricity to partially power the pulping process, reducing the reliance on fossil fuels.”cont’d at
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20042315/
When Bush, using Channel 3 TV in Israel, threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iran, crude oil shot from 30 to 75 dollars a barrel, as traders “trading oil futures” expected all-out war in the Middle East. That. in turn, raised gasoline to 3 bucks a gallon. Bush quickly went back on Israeli TV and “took the nuclear option back off the table” Too late, the cat was out of the bag; Bush was an honorary Zionist-Jew and all bets were off. Gasoline came down slowly but with a case of the jitters.
Now that the Russians are backing Iran and all out war is unlikely, the “Seven Sisters” still like selling their gasoline for 3 bucks and collecting 75 dollars a barrel from their company-owned oil wells, so, you guessed it, suddenly there is a production shortage of gasoline keeping the price close to that 3 dollar mark. A little “cooking of the books here and there” and bingo, gasoline production is away down, when in fact poor people can no longer buy gasoline and Middle-class Americans have maxed-out their credit cards, the “Seven Sisters” still collect 75 at the Well-Head and 3 bucks at the pump.
Notice the Zionists helping the oil companies, all Seven Sisters, cover-up their shit, by chiming-in about the “old broken-down oil refineries.”
Oh, yeah, tell me all about it…..
Congratulations to the religious reich and idiotic small business owners. You stopped the casino from being built in Sedgwick County. Unfortunately, your customers(churches included) will still gamble. Just not in this county. Casino developers are smart enough to have land secured immediately across the Sumner/Sedgwick county line. All you accomplished was costing Sedgwick county money! If left to you people, we would still have outdoor plumbing. I can hear it now…..”if we use the bathroom indoors, it will destroy family values”
Way to go! You are succeeding in not bringing any conventions, seeing any economic development, or doing anything to keep corporations in the community. You will sit with your mouth open staring at the tv as you watch one convention after another choose a city with more to offer.
Thank goodness for the Arena. Its all we will have.
Wow, last night’s open thread was another piece of work by the resident trolls and gay bashers.
I tried to make a list of all the gay bashing posts to be removed, but there wasnt enough room to list them all.
Editors? What’s it going to take for you to ban the troll?
And Ian got banned for racism? SO then I guess that means on the WE blog, racism = bad but violent homophobia = good.
It isnt just me the troll is insulting. Look at what he posts to Tom and others. And look at the gay bashing from parkay. That’s ok, but criticism of christianity is not?
I’m posting this now because the troll is obviously sleeping off his binge from last night. But I sure hope today there is some “walk on by” on both the lib and con sides of the aisle.
Oh, and this one is for the REPUBLICAN troll.
“Head of Young Republicans under investigation for blowing a sleeping guy
Edited on Tue Aug-07-07 10:12 PM by CurtEastPointFormer Clark County GOP Chair and newly elected Young Republican National Federation Chair Glenn Murphy is under investigation for criminal deviate conduct, a Class B felony, for allegedly engaging in oral sex with a sleeping victim. This is not his first run-in with the law for this kind of offense.
See the whole story at http://www.takingdownwords.com/taking_down_words/2007/0...
I guess now the gop is the party of oral values?
…and just to make sure ALL the trolls are full at breakfast time, here’s one for the CHRISTIAN trolls.
Pentagon officers found guilty of proselytism chargesBy staff writers8 Aug 2007
In the USA the Pentagon’s Inspector General has found against seven military officers, including four generals, who engaged in misconduct three years ago when they appeared in a controversial promotional video for an evangelical group called Christian Embassy, contravening proselytism regulations.
Constitutionally, no-one serving in the US military is allowed to seek converts while on active duty. However, as Ekklesia previously reported, the officers concerned appeared in uniform in the evangelical video.
According to The Washington Post and other news sources, much of the film was shot inside the Pentagon itself.
A former Acting Secretary of the Air Force within the US administration, Pete Geren, appeared in the video.
Mikey Weinstein, an Air Force Academy graduate and former assistant counsel under President Reagan who founded the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, which asked for the investigation, told CNN TV that it was an open-and-shut case.
He declared: ” were absolutely proselytizing. … Numbers of them had actually led Christian Embassy Bible studies. They were well aware what this was about.”
…and here’s one for the HOMOPHOBE trolls….
booley (1000+ posts) Tue Aug-07-07 10:52 PMOriginal message
Atkin’s Owner keeps son away from partner of 25 years
Yes, another horror story about why we need legal recognition. (peice meal efforts just dont’ seem to be cutting it)
This is just very sad…
Patrick Atkins and Brett Conrad met in 1978 and remained together until fate and Patrick’s family separated the life partners.
While on a business trip in 2005, Patrick suffered an aneurysm and then a stroke. Hospitalized in Atlanta, Georgia, Brett went to be with Patrick; however, to say that Brett’s presence at the hospital was displeasing to Patrick’s mother, Jeanne Atkins (as in Atkins Elegant Desserts and Atkins Cheesecake) is an understatement. According to the opinion issued by the Indiana Appellate Court:Patrick’s family, however, has steadfastly refused to accept their son’s lifestyle. Jeanne believes that homosexuality is a grievous sin and that Brett and his relatives are “sinners” and are “evil” for accepting Brett and Patrick’s relationship. She testified that no amount of evidence could convince her that Patrick and Brett were happy together or that they had a positive and beneficial relationship.
…Patrick’s brother testified that Brett’s mere presence in the hospital was “hurting” Jeanne and offending her religions beliefs. Jeanne told Brett that if Patrick was going to return to his life with Brett after recovering from the stroke, she would prefer that he not recover at all…………….As the family did not want to see Brett, Brett was reduced to visiting Patrick for only 15 minutes, after visiting hours had ended. A sign was posted at the ICU that limited Patrick’s visitors to “immediate family and clergy only” but compassionate hospital staff continued to allow Brett to visit Patrick outside of regular visiting hours.
When Patrick was removed to a nursing home in Carmel, Indiana, Brett again was required to visit Patrick after regular visiting hours so as to avoid being seen by Patrick’s family. Patrick was ultimately moved into his parents’ home. Armed with complete control of the situation, the Atkins refused to allow Brett to visit Patrick and even refused to allow Brett to talk with Patrick on the telephone……………
http://www.bilerico.com/2007/08/when_love_is_not_enough...
…and here’s one for the corporate shills and fossil fuels shills…
Utah mine owner called Hillary “anti-American,” and other gems (SL Tribune)
Source: Salt Lake Tribune
On TV and before Congress, mine owner railed against more regulation
WASHINGTON — The president of the Utah mine where six miners are missing has been vocal against more regulation of the coal industry, even going as far as to call Sen. Hillary Clinton “anti-American” for suggesting the nation needed a president who is for workers’ safety.
During an interview with Fox News’ Neil Cavuto in May, Murray responded to a comment from Clinton, who asked a crowd whether they were ready for a president who is “pro-labor and will appoint people who actually care about workers’ rights and workers’ safety.”
“Bob, do you view this rhetoric as pro-labor, anti-business, what?” Cavuto asked Murray.
“Absolutely not,” Murray responded. “I view it as anti-American. These people should — are misleading the American worker then they talk about jobs. These are the people advocating draconian global warming conditions that are going to drive American jobs to foreign countries and raise electric rates for everybody on fixed incomes.”
… The Mine Safety and Health Administration has cited Murray’s mine in central Utah with more than 300 violations since January 2004, including 118 “significant and substantial” violations that are considered serious enough to cause injury or death.
Read more: http://www.sltrib.com/ci_6564581
Ok no need to thank me for providing troll food for the day. Maybe you all can actually post without the trolls begging for crumbs today.
A little link about trolling that sane posters here might find interesting. Of course, no one will see themselves here…
oops, forgot the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
Hey Farm Girl,
You’re starting to remind me of my first wife. Can hardly get a word in edgewise!
Patrick’s brother testified that Brett’s mere presence in the hospital was “hurting” Jeanne and offending her religions beliefs. Jeanne told Brett that if Patrick was going to return to his life with Brett after recovering from the stroke, she would prefer that he not recover at all…………….As the family did not want to see Brett, Brett was reduced to visiting Patrick for only 15 minutes, after visiting hours had ended. A sign was posted at the ICU that limited Patrick’s visitors to “immediate family and clergy only” but compassionate hospital staff continued to allow Brett to visit Patrick outside of regular visiting hours.
When Patrick was removed to a nursing home in Carmel, Indiana, Brett again was required to visit Patrick after regular visiting hours so as to avoid being seen by Patrick’s family. Patrick was ultimately moved into his parents’ home. Armed with complete control of the situation, the Atkins refused to allow Brett to visit Patrick and even refused to allow Brett to talk with Patrick on the telephone……………
http://www.bilerico.com/2007/08/when_love_is_not_enough
There are several things I do understand about this story, and the link does not work (for me it said page not found)
Anyway,
1) I do not understand the Mother. At all. I find it particularly heinous to say, if quoted accurately “return to his life with Brett after recovering from the stroke, she would prefer that he not recover at all.”
2) Is not the son an adult? Can he not threfore, pick his own guests and visitors?
3) If he is an adult, but either not conscious, or does not have a mental capacity to choose his guests, how could he speak to his significant other by telephone?
KFG
While I adamently appose the State sanctioning Gay marriage I do support some kind of legislation allowing gay couples to designate their partner as having primary legal standing in legal and medical issues.
It’s a horrible story and I think that most people, even those opposed to gay marriage as such support some type of change.
“In the USA the Pentagon’s Inspector General has found against seven military officers, including four generals, who engaged in misconduct three years ago when they appeared in a controversial promotional video for an evangelical group called Christian Embassy, contravening proselytism regulations. ”
If they violated the regs, then they need to stand up ad be counted for the punishment.
“Constitutionally, no-one serving in the US military is allowed to seek converts while on active duty.”
THis statement I disagree with. There is something wrong here, either with the wording, as in “while on active duty” or the statement as a whole.
What is the source of this article?
“These are the people advocating draconian global warming conditions that are going to drive American jobs to foreign countries and raise electric rates for everybody on fixed incomes.”
I agree that that would be the result of some of the GW proposals
“.. The Mine Safety and Health Administration has cited Murray’s mine in central Utah with more than 300 violations since January 2004, including 118 “significant and substantial” violations that are considered serious enough to cause injury or death. ”
Looks like he should have kept his mouth shut.
Source for the christian embassy article.
http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?date=2007/08/07/1
Another source for the article about the gay couple
http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?date=2007/08/07/1
http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/5540
Another source for the christian embassy article. It also quotes the Washington Post.
“Constitutionally, no-one serving in the US military is allowed to seek converts while on active duty.”
Posted by: littlejohn | August 08, 2007 at 09:24 AM
LJ,
I served for 10 years, most of those as an NCO. The logic behind this is that I can use my rank to persuade my troops. It would be the same if I were trying to sell them Amway. As I was focal in their progression thru the ranks, there might be the notions (real or perceived) that if they did not convert or buy Amway, they would not progress, receive the dangerous or tedious duty assignments…
Well, you get the point right?
Farmie,
If the officers were promoting the gay lifestyle and were punished in the same way, how would you feel about it?
Sol,
First, define “gay lifestyle.”
Second, just as gay people are born this way, so are heterosexuals. There’s no “recruiting” involved. Tell me – when did you decide to be straight?
Get a grip Tom. This isn’t bashing, but a serious question. How many gay people are still ‘in the closet’?
When did you decide to come out of the closet?
I’m surprised you don’t understand the phrase gay lifestyle. Huh. Go figure. How about being openly gay? That simple enough for you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DoNotFeedTroll.svg
“promoting the gay lifestyle”
Big eye roll. Solly, I expect better from you. What exactly would be “promoting the gay lifestyle”.
Some folks think by existing or talking about our partners or living openly as gay men and women IS promoting our “lifestyle”.
That promoting our “lifestyle” is just crap. We are living our lives.
Besides, the military would discharge anyone who admited they were gay.
Big eye roll.
Good points and good posts, KGrrl.
Thanks for those.
Race, religion, and ethnic orientation should be off-limits.
Speaking of which, it looks like “bad Ed” showed up today with this: “After 6000 years of being despised by every society they infect, the Jews”
Diseases INFECT people, Ed. Judaism is a religion, it’s not pathogenic bacteria.
Say, bye bye to your post now . . .
Farmie,
I asked seriously. No bashing. What if they were supporting being openly gay? That is what was meant by –gay lifestyle-. Let’s say the being openly gay was not a dischargeable offense, but officers could not openly support being openly gay, just as they can’t openly support a religion or Amway.
So back to the question. Tom or Farmie…
Goodness, when someone gets discharged against their will for being a practicing christian, give me a call.
Because in case you havent noticed, THAT is what happens to gay folks in the military when they “come out of the closet”.
They get discharged just for BEING something.
So when that happens to christians in the military, give me a call. Until then? Apples and oranges.
Ed,
Are you a Christian?
Solly I dont want to pick a fight with you. Your “what if” is so beyond reality it cant even be addressed.
I cant imagine any gay person saying “you should also be gay”. WE know it is a way you are born. When people out here think I’m going to “recruit” their women (sorry, I have no taste for trained seals with big hair) I always say that is nuts.
I cant make them gay anymore than they can make me straight.
That’s why we cant address your what if Solly. It so goes beyond the bounds of logic and reason it cant be addressed except with other “what ifs”.
Sol – let me make a stab at it as a heterosexual. I know many people who are openly christian and openly Mary Kay (not currently any Amway). However, as long as they don’t ‘cross the line’ as prosetylize then they should be allowed to ‘exist’ including in a workforce or military.
I would say yhr same thing about someone who is not secret about being gay.
Let’s phrase the question just a bit differently. If an officer were seen attending Church or an Amway meeting while off-duty should he be discharged? I think not.
Sol, really. Tell me what you mean by “gay lifestyle.” I’ve been hearing that phrase nearly my entire life, but not once has anyone given me a satisfactory definition.
Ron Paul supports Americans, doesn’t box people up by any label. I support that as well. So as president, ‘gays in the military’ becomes a non-issue. There are Americans in the military. End or story.
And it STILL isn’t apples and oranges. If being openly gay was not dischargeable, but supporting being openly gay was, just as being evangelical or selling Amway is, how would you feel if the officers were discharged because they were promoting being openly gay.
It is a pretty simple question.
Tom,
Posted by: SolDevVB | August 08, 2007 at 09:59 AM
I’m not looking for a fight either, just curious. If the question is too hard to answer, understood.
Solly–
I don’t think anyone objects to a discussion about homosexuality, its causes-effects, its place in society, etc.
But TROLLS calling me an “alpha gay male” with the intent to demean or any of a myriad of insults directed at our gay post-ers is not discussion.
It is hate speech that encourages discrimination and violence against a minority group.
LJ,
“2) Is not the son an adult? Can he not threfore, pick his own guests and visitors?
3) If he is an adult, but either not conscious, or does not have a mental capacity to choose his guests, how could he speak to his significant other by telephone?”
LJ, likely the parents were given “custody” of him because he is not capable of managing his own affairs. They may have gotten a guardianship or some similar thing. That is what THEY automatically get when there is no marriage and no medical power of attorney done. Most states only recognize MARRIAGE, not domestic partnerships.
Easy for you folks to say “pay for a lawyer and draw up a myriad of legal documents to get what you want” when all YOU have to do is say “I do” while drunk on your ass in front of an Elvis impersonator in Las Vegas.
THAT is the sanctity and power of your marriage laws. So sacred gay people cant get the legal benefits and equal protection under the law that YOU get.
Drunk on your ass in front of an Elvis impersonator in Las Vegas.
Big eye roll.
Agreed Capn, I am not using hate speech, just asking a question. How would you feel if…
Here’s my big gay lifestyle:
A mortgage. Two late 90s cars, both paid for. A mortgage on a modest home in a modest neighborhood. A child in college. While the child was living at home, one parent who worked part time and stayed home for the kid. One dog, one cat. A yard that gets mowed every week or two. Elderly neighbors whom we help out with their household maintenance if they need it. Dinner out once a month or so (well, two or three or four times now that the kid has moved out). Taxes that get paid. And so on.
No child molesting. No disco clubbing. No sleeping around. No wild parties at exotic resorts. No anonymous “encounters” in parks or rest stops or library bathrooms (all things I’ve been accused of doing, btw).
You know. That big gay lifestyle that straight people only dream about.
Always, Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,Links,
What else can they call the murder of civilians?
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/08/08/iraq.main/index.html
Solly no one is dodging your question. It just isnt fruitful to engage in so many WHAT IFS. It is beyone reality and useless for making any kind of point.
But I think, unwittingly, you are making my point, that lots of straight folks think just by living our lives openly we are somehow “promoting” a “lifestyle”.
WTF? If a straight officer has pictures of his wife and kids on his desk, he is “promoting” a “straight” lifestyle?
Damn, solly, with all due respect, I DO expect better from you.
Alright look. I didn’t know that ‘gay life style’ was such a red button. I’ll rephrase – supporting being openly gay. I think I’ve put that out there several times. Y’all just want to jump on ‘gay life style’ .
Go for it. I guess the question IS too hard to answer.
Ed,
Are you a Christian?
“straight folks think just by living our lives openly we are somehow “promoting” a “lifestyle”.WTF? If a straight officer has pictures of his wife and kids on his desk, he is “promoting” a “straight” lifestyle?”Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | August 08, 2007 at 10:20 AM
OK, I haven’t made the question clear. Advising others to be openly gay. Does that work?
WTF? If a straight officer has pictures of his wife and kids on his desk, he is “promoting” a “straight” lifestyle?”Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | August 08, 2007 at 10:20 AM
No, he is being openly straight. By advising another soldier to put up pictures of his/her same sex partner, that is promoting being openly gay.
Sol, yeah, it’s a big ‘ole button, I’ll admit it. Here’s _why_ it’s such a button:
The radicals who want to control and demean our lives do everything they can to promote an image of gay and lesbian Americans that fits their preferred stereotype. If they can convince people that we’re all just a bunch of sex-crazed, drug taking, irresponsible people, they can pass all kinds of laws restricting our rights.
Here’s one good example: The state of Oklahoma has a shiny new law that says they don’t have to recognize adoptions performed in other states, if the adoptive parents are the same sex. In practice, that means anyone traveling to OK with their kids automatically loses their parental rights upon crossing the state line (I’m not making this up or exaggerating – it’s the stated intent of the legislators who wrote it). Fortunately, not everyone buys into this crap; the OK law was just overturned by a Federal appeals court last week.
But my point remains: The attempts to say it’s just a “lifestyle,” and then set up the “lifestyle” straw man of depraved debauchery, is nothing more than a propaganda ploy. It grates on _all_ our nerves every time we see it.
OK, I haven’t made the question clear. Advising others to be openly gay. Does that work?Posted by: SolDevVB | August 08, 2007 at 10:25 AM
Are you suggesting people pretend to be what they’re not? That we live nice quiet little lies in our quiet little closets, pretending to the prudish we’re something other than who we are?
I think not.
“Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.”Albert Einstein, (attributed)US (German-born) physicist (1879 – 1955)
OMG, OK, if an officer advises troops, that if they are gay, to be openly gay. Why is this so hard to answer? There is no pretending, no coercing a straight person to be gay. It is a simple question. Don’t try to read 30′ underneath it. There are no tricks, gimmicks or straw men, just a question.
Solly, you damn right the term “gay lifestyle” is flame bait.
This is a long read, so only click if you really want to know.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/gay/THTVTAVN17G1UFE5F
Oh, and if the gay people get discharged for being openly gay, why not discharge the straights for being “openly straight”?
Well since the troll has slept off his binge from last night and returned here to the scene of the crime, I think I’ll go have intelligent conversation with the chickens.
Solly, sorry we got off on the wrong foot today. I have come to care for you and respect you. I hope you take this opportunity to look at your own assumptions regardy gay people, promoting being gay, and the “lifestyle” issue.
I dont think you meant to be insulting. But I also hope you take the time to think about why your question and hypothetical WERE insulting.
OK, back to all troll all the time….
“Oh, and if the gay people get discharged for being openly gay, why not discharge the straights for being “openly straight”?”
If the soldier’s ‘life style’ is disrupted, he/she should be punished. No worries. Straight, gay, alcoholic, excessive masturbator, what ever…
My apologies to Tom and Farmie. Not trying to pick a fight or be disrespectful. Just curious.
disruptive *
Dear Farm Girl,
Still laughing about getting married by Elvis! Sounds a lot like my second marriage!
I’ve cleaned my act up considerably over the years. I’m in my 20th year with my third wife. Still I hesitate to advise others on marriage or ‘committed relationships’.
I think that if you can find someone to love and share your life with, more power to you. Marriage is holy to me. I don’t considered anyone married unless they have santified their vows in the presence of God.
I don’t care if the state wants to allow people in committed relationships to be ‘married’, but I won’t attend their wedding nor will I consider them married in the same way that I consider myself to be married.
I will treat them with respect and I will acknowledge their commitment, just don’t expect me to approve.
Hank
Perhaps VT or GMC70 can shed some expert light here, but I believe that adults of sound mind can confer durable power-of-attorney to anyone of their choosing to prepare in advance for potential incapacitation.
To wit, this legal procedure precludes biological parents of incapacitated adults from asserting control over their adult children.
In the case of partners who part ways, the power is revocable–or even if they don’t split up it is revocable at any time.
It is a legal contract (typically each partner grants the other power of attorney), in which the party becoming incapacitated assigns asset-management and other fiduciary duties (not necessarily medical decision-making duties, which may require a separate legal procedure), and in return the “attorney in fact” assumes the fiduciary obligation to act in the best interests of the incapacitated party. As long as this obligation is not breached, the grant is legally protected from parents, siblings or children’s challenges.
If my understanding as a layman is reasonably correct, it would appear that Patrick and Brett could have avoided the current situation by planning in advance for adverse future events.
Sol,
No offense taken and no apology necessary.
MPS,
When challenged by immediate family, those arrangements don’t always hold up. It’s happening less often than it used to, but if a parent, sibling, or child presses the issue in court, those durable medical powers of attorney are just so much paper.
Yes MPS. So…why do gay people have to hire lawyers, draw up paperwork, pay fees, jump through hoops, and carry the paperwork with them at all times, when…
…all straight people have to do is get drunk and say I do in front of an elvis impersonator to get the same protection under the law?
Either recognize civil unions in all 50 states, or let us get married. Those are straight folks’ rules, not ours.
And hank, with all due respect, I dont attend straight weddings anymore and I make it clear why. I also would NEVER set foot again in a church for any reason, much less marriage.
And I DONT approve of christians. Dont expect me to either. I dont care what you do in your churches. Roll on the floor and speak in tongues, handle snakes, abuse children, whatever. You have a right to do and say as you please in your churches.
I dont give a rat’s ass about ANYONE’s approval of my relationship. I just want civil equality. Why do I have to pay hundreds of dollars in legal fees when you dont in order to get the same benefits?
I dont know why I bother. Bigotry is as bigotry does.
When are we going to get some rights for fat people? We don’t get dates, we don’t get the jobs, we don’t get promoted at work, and we end up with higher video rental bills, healthcare costs, and furniture replacement.
WE ARE A GROWING POPULATION:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/fit.nation/obesity.map/
As the map indicates, Kansas is getting fatter all the time. It appears the increase each year matches the number of registered democrats in the state. There is one year in the study where the number of FAT people in Kansas actually dropped (1997), and I am researching to determine the voters registered that yer.
But this is a BIG problem, and you might ignore it, but it will gradually creap up on you when you least expect it.
And WHAM!!!
You will be home alone on Friday night watching reruns of Lucy too!
Farmie,
Good link. I get it now.
What did I tell you? All troll all the time.
Thanks Sol, and I am glad you get it. As Tom said, no apology necessary. I know you didnt mean to hurt anyone.
Anyone on the right, any republican, any christian, any military guys wanna call out your troll?
Or are you just going to give silent approval?
Troll, Grow the fu(k up.
Isn’t it time we had a president that saw Americans as Americans? Nothing more, nothing less?
Isn’t it time we ALL did the same?
AaaaMen Solly!!
And one poster complains about trolls filling the blog? I think a fair comparison could be made on the wasted space filled almost daily with talk of:
trollscivil equality for g*ys
Even the Fairness Doctrine would allow for equal posting space for other subject matter.
OK, walk on by.
Return to regular programming.
Farmgrrl,
Looks like you have a fan club. Shall I have little buttons made? ID cards laminated?
Maybe KSFarmboy will do a myspace page in your honor, yeah?
::snort::
Oh yes, Same ole, talking about civil rights for _all_ Americans is such a waste of space. Yet mocking those who do, now THERE’s what a blog should be. I’m with ya there, pardner’
Hey, Tom, she DOES have fans!
Tell him about the emails, KFG!
Here’s a nice thought for ALL Bloggers>>>>
“People are a lot like Crayons…
Some are sharp, some are pretty and some are dull. Some have weird names, and all are different colors, but they all have to live in the same box.
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.”
Rage,
I know Farmgrrl personally, and I’m one of her biggest fans. :)
KsFrmGrrl–
I think that’s a little unfair your condemning all churches for the actions of some or even many of them.
There’s a huge diversity of practical application of Biblical ethics and morals among various denominations.
Some pacifist religious groups–the Quakers, the Amish-Mennonite-Brethern–oppose participation in war, while many mainstream groups like Methodists and Baptists justify war on Biblical grounds.
Even among the Mennonites, you’ve got groups who believe that all war is bad and must be opposed and the counter-group who believes that civil society can make war but church-members will not actively participate in it.
Some Mennonites have been so co-opted by the American conservative culture that they actively support war–see the Tabor College Mennonite-Brethern and their yellow ribbon fest.
*****
Regarding homosexuality, my church the Episcopalians have taken a principled stance to support gays. We have a gay bishop.
This caused a schism with conservative congrations splitting off and withholding giving.
It has also caused a rift with our African Anglican bros and sisters, who refuse to have anything to do with homosexuality. Ironically, polygeny is allowed there.
My point is that the Episcopal Church in the US has paid a price for doing the right thing, and I’d appreciate it if the people who are on the same side of this issue would not condemn us for it.
All Troll, all Gay Activist posting all the time. It’s a broken record. The trolls disrupt and the gays holler at the top of their lungs.
Of course you are correct Captain. Not all churches are evil. I stand corrected.
But I still wont set foot in ANY of them.
Thank you Tom and Rage. Yes indeed, I have gotten real fan mail from folks who enjoy what I write. I dont think I’ve gotten any hate mail. They seem to put that on the blog.
And as I mentioned to Steven Davis the other day, we do, now, actually get COMPLEMENTED when there is a “GOOD” thread.
That’s how rare a good, topical, uninterrupted by troll thread is these days on the WE blog. It’s so rare it deserves comment when it happens.
(Cue comments about bitching while posting).
Not all of us have a love it or leave it attitude about the blog or our country.
Did the open thread of yesterday get cleaned up?
Ed, Are you a Christian?
Perhaps, blank poster, if others didn’t keep making such an issue over gay and lesbian Americans all the time, we wouldn’t have to discuss it all the time.
Here’s a nice gem I woke up to in this morning’s paper:
==============
“The special election drew 43 percent of the county’s registered voters, which Sedgwick County Election Commissioner Bill Gale called a heavy turnout.
In contrast, the special election on a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage in April 2005 drew 38 percent of the registered voters.”
==============
Even when it’s not about us, someone makes it about us. Nice, huh?
Now – how about we move on to something intelligent? Like the business economy in South Central Ks?
“Keep it up, farmie, when the weather cools, I’ll have more time to show folks what a fool you really are.”
Editors? I think that was a threat.
GS,
Welcome back. Here’s the door. You used it walking in…
Tom – it’s not the other posters – it’s farmie. The sooner you realize that, and, as a decent gay guy, distance yourself from her bloviating, the better.
She tries to turn every thread into her private account of gay sexual escapades, and if she’s treated like a leper – it’s because she sets herself up to be on.
She is the Poster Child for Victim Mentality.
You seem like a good guy, but you need to get rid of that dead weight (farmie) that’s dragging you down.
Just get a clue. She’s a failure as a human being and that has nothing to do with her sexuality, but that’s how she defines herself.
“Editors? I think that was a threat.”
More victim mentality?
Poor baby. Can dish it out -but still can’t take it?
lol
GSheridan–
Welcome back.
FYI, “open thread” means one gets to post about whatever is of interest to one.
How’s your new business working out?
Good, I hope . . .
GSheridan,
First of all, I’ve never, _never_ seen Farmgrrl turn _any_ thread into her “private account of gay sexual escapades.” If there is such a thread, paste in a link to it for me.
Second of all, you are talking about a close personal friend of mine. Your insulting, nasty personal attack is all the more offensive for that.
I suggest you withdraw your lie in the first part, and apologize for the second.
Newsweek has a cover story
“Global Warming Is A Hoax*, *Or so claim well-funded naysayers who still reject the overwhelming evidence of climate change. Inside the denial machine.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20122975/site/newsweek/
Last winter, I pointed out that in January we were having nighttime low temps that were higher than historic daytime highs. Our lawns were green the entire winter. We’ve had springtime and summer rains that have totally messed up wheat harvests.
Congressional earmarks are at record highs. Why aren’t Kansas’s representatives authoring legislation to create a major greenhouse ag program for KSU? We have abundant wind, solar and natural gas resources to grow tomatoes, squash, cucumbers and other “summer” crops in fall-winter-spring, like they do in Canada and the Netherlands, which receive less sunlight than Kansas from Oct-March. We can create deep-ground water-circulation systems that tap geothermal energy to modulate greenhouse temperatures. We can tap into power plants, whether they be coal or natural-gas fired, or nuclear, and use their “waste” heat.
The real waste here is failure to see an opportunity to create a 21st century high-value ag production system by smartly examining the resources this state has, and putting them to productive use.
The real waste here is the conniving of some manipulators to build a money-squandering arena and casino. “Oh, you dumb people, you just gave up the opportunity to bring gazillions of convention dollars to Wichita.” Riiight. Why would convention-holders want to go to Wichita?You’re biggest bet would be aviation, but they like Orlando, and unless you’ve got $20 billion to create a Walt Disney World Resort, Seaworld, and Universal Wichita Resort, you aren’t going to compete.
For the arena/casino proponents who say we can get conventions, if we can just built Des Moines-equivalent entertainment venues, name the conventions. Name the ones that Des Moines has landed.
Here’s a clue: Say I’m a CEO or events planner in New York, LA, Silicon Valley, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Boston, Miami, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Charlotte, Charlottesville, St. Louis Kansas City, St. Louis, Denver…
And the reason I want to go to Wichita is because they have an arena and a dinky casino. Plus a plethora of chain restaurants that I don’t have to go to Wichita to experience. Plus mall chain retailers that my wife isn’t interested in. And, we’ll take a side trip to see the world’s biggest string-ball, and the world’s deepest hand-dug well–oops that’s closed. But when it re-opens we sure want to see it.
Okay, GSheridan has something personal against KsGrrl.
This we already know.
Let’s move on . . .
Capn – no ‘new’ business – same old, but very profitable business these days.
And, I agree that Open Threads should be about everything, but, come on, now, don’t you think folks get tired of reading day in and day out about farmie’s gay sex?
No one but her cares.
If anyone, gay or straight, did that – everyone else would be offended.
The editors need to realize that she runs off new posters.
First day back and the FIRST thing she does is go after Farmie. Obsess much?
Waaaaaiiiittt. Is that it? Did Farmie reject your advances and now you are scorned?
If marriage gives the spouse custodial rights to your partner if your incapacitated. Buy what legal right did Terri Schiavo’s parents have to interfere in her husbands decision regarding her situation. And despite all its flaws didn’t the Marriage Amendment reinforce spousal rights in exactly those sort of situations
Glad to hear it.
The housing ups-and-downs don’t seem to affecting us too much here in KS, except maybe in big college towns or near KC.
Sorry Tom, I happened by the other day only to find farmie talking about how fun gay sex was. You can find the thread yourself, it’s less than a week old.
Go ahead, dock in her nasty port.
It lessens you.
Don’t say you weren’t warned.
You’ve been reported and I have requested that your post threatening me be removed. We’ll see if the WE follows up.
Your malice toward me is documented. Your trolling is documented. As have been your threats to me and others as well as your off blog actions.
I’m sorry you are so sad and just plain mean. Whatever you post in the future about me will be dealt with. I notice you and golfnut only appear when the trolling is at its peak.
I think we all see where this is heading.
Good post, Tom. Ironic, isn’t it?
Conservative “values” conflict with themselves . . .
TomP,
Shiavo’s husband only prevailed after _years_ of litigation. An unmarried gay partner stands no chance in an environment like that. And no, the Kansas relationship ban did not reinforce marriage rights for anyone.
True, Cap, we’re on a steadily growing trend right now. Nothing booming – just nice and promising.
While the West Coast is suffering from the financing of some interest-only loans, now that their housing bubble has drooped, it makes Kansas look pretty attractive.
And never mind that we have the best people in the world…right here.
farmie – not only did I just report YOUR posts of blatant sexual innuendo – but I reported the months-old posts where you spewed all kinds of filth and malice.
Now, let’s see if the WE editors have the smarts to get rid of you once and for all.
SCR1601 (2005):Article 15 of the constitution of the stateof Kansas is amended by adding a new section thereto to read as follows:§ 16. Marriage.
(a) The marriage contract is to be considered in law as a civil contract. Marriage shall be constituted by one man and one woman only. All other marriages are declared to be contrary to the public policy of this state and are void.(b) No relationship, other than a marriage, shall be recognized by the state as entitling the parties to the rights or incidents of marriage.
GS–
KGrrl has a point.
Your posts so far are nothing but flamebait against KGrrl.
Your on-going attacks add nothing to the discussion.
I’m glad that KGrrl has chosen to stay above the mud slinging.
The baiting is really over the line.
The EDs are not going to ban KFG. Not going to happen.
*****
New topic–
What’s up with the rents in Wichita? I’m looking for a place for a child graduated from college.
A little bungalow goes for $650? A tidy brick two-story goes for $950?!
Considering that’s no monthly price advantage over a mortgage, I don’t see why anybody rents in this town . . .
Is there anything other than religious beliefs holding back gay marriage? Can anyone point out a reason for not allowing the marriage other than religious beliefs?
Somebody notify me when a topic of interest (non gay) is being discussed on this board.
Maybe the editors need to make a special Open Thread just to discuss gay stuff everyday.
That way the rest of us could discuss thing of actual interest to a number of folks.
Well, GS, it seems to me that there is an increasing number of foreclosure cases being filed in Sedgwick County District Court on a monthly basis. There are more than a few folks who took advantage of interest only mortgage loans in the county (I’ve talked with a few professionally) who were intent on “flipping” the property, which has come home to roost. I suspect that as in many things, we’ll see the same sorts of things happening now in other parts of the country, only a bit later.
Off to get something done . . . Have a good one, all.
Uh OH.. PMS time again… I am outta here at 12:08 p.m. See ya all later!!
I’ve been wondering about that, VT. Those TV shows “Flip This House” etc. encourage people to speculate in real estate.
I hope they show people who sink money into properties and DON’T FLIP them or don’t flip them for what they expect to get.
Real estate used to be a “sure thing” until people started speculating wildly.
“The EDs are not going to ban KFG. Not going to happen.”—————
Maybe not, Capn, but it SHOULD happen. She’s a real detriment to this board.
Maybe they’re afraid she’ll file a discrimination suit against them. Who knows?
But one thing is certain, she does lower the standard of discussion here every time she starts in on one of her spews.
I know folks from other forums that left her – because of her. WEBlog should appeal to the greatest number of readers – not just the mouthiest. When there are folks like farmie trying to dictate what the editors do – it puts others off.
If they don’t mind losing posters – so be it. It’s their blog.
But I remember oh so well how farmie suddenly got a dose of her own medicine a few months ago and stomped off in a huff.
Of course she (and the rest of you guys) came back, tails between your legs – but that event will be remember – and retold, for years to come.
lol
Now then, lighten up. It’s a beautiful day outside, albeit the heat. I’m going to take my little niece to the pool and then stop for ice cream. Yum
The housing ups-and-downs don’t seem to affecting us too much here in KS, except maybe in big college towns or near KC.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | August 08, 2007 at 11:52 AM
Gee, you take all those out and all you have left of Kansas is three farm houses, two barns, and one broken wind mill. This is profound.
Okay, GS, look forward to your future posts.
I think there’s a reasonable person somewhere behind those blazing double barrels . . .
Vaughn – very true, I just got back from a business trip to NV. The lower end housing market (under half a mil) is still developing, but some big homes have gone back to the bank.
There are indications that the Feds will lower the rate by late fall, but maybe not in time to pull out a miracle there.
Aren’t there new laws about the time limits in ‘flipping’ today, Vaughn?
90 days, or something? That’s not relevant in our line of work, since we hold – rent – until we can go with long-term cap gains after a year.
But, it never made any sense to me to limit the flip. Money is still changing hands, the economy is benefiting.
I wasn’t aware they were taking the interest-only loans here. I’ll pay better attention.
I’m also surprised that foreclosures are rising – since new housing is still growing.
Heh, nice cheap-shot, C. Falls.
Wichita is the biggest city in Kansas, something like 350 thousand . . .
We have many thriving smaller communities like Emporia, Pittsburg, Lindsborg, Newton, and Great Bend.
I take it that you’re not from around here.
Easy for you folks to say “pay for a lawyer and draw up a myriad of legal documents to get what you want” when all YOU have to do is say “I do” while drunk on your ass in front of an Elvis impersonator in Las Vegas.
THAT is the sanctity and power of your marriage laws. So sacred gay people cant get the legal benefits and equal protection under the law that YOU get.
Drunk on your ass in front of an Elvis impersonator in Las Vegas.
Big eye roll.
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | August 08, 2007 at 10:16 AM
I have consistenly been for the state to sanction gay marriages. I stated the situation was terrible.
I asked three questions. Thank you for answering two. Or at least your perception of the answer, which I would presume to be true also. You then go on about “you folks” ? I didn;t say anything about domestic partnerships, etc. WHy link me in with that?
Capn, on your query concerning renting vs. purchasing, a few thoughts that may be on point.
First, there are many younger folks who cannot, at this point, qualify for a mortgage loan. They may well be able to afford the monthly rental + utilities, but if the p+i amount of the monthly payment is equal to the rental figure you charge, are they also able to afford the taxes, costs of maintenance and insurance?
Second, the rental figures cited seem to be about right for certain locations here in Wichita. There are places which can, and are, rented for less, which may, granted, be in less desirable locations.
Applying the old “rule of thumb” on rents v. values, could the bungalow be purchased for $65,000, or the tidy two story brick for $95,000? If so, could the individual afford the other expenses which accompany outright ownership?
BTW, with ever increasing standard deduction amounts (as the same are adjusted for inflation) as well as the bracket adjustments, the availability of the mortgage interest deduction and property tax deduction to a home owner isn’t worth quite as much as it used to be from an income tax perspective.
KsAFarmgrrl-
Thanks for the extra link (planetout) about the two men. It gave many more details.
Yes, it is an interesting dichotomy, GS. I suspect from reviewing the captions of the pleadings that many of the cases may well involve the “subprime” lenders so much in the news. It appears to me from the captions (I don’t go to the effort to read the pleadings) that many of the cases are at the “lower end”, but not all are.
There are some newer rules on “flipping”, which seems to have become almost a thing of the past here. No one with whom I’ve spoken, however, would have been affected by the 90 day thing, as the intent was to pay the “interest only” for a year or so, then sell at a profit.
Littlejohn, not every YOU or YOUR means you in particular. Sometimes it is a generic term. If I mean you in particular, I will say that.
Oh, and just for the record, I have never posted on any other “forums” besides the WV and Tracy’s blog. That’s just pure fiction. Like so many other trolling posts…
ksfarmgrrl-
Okay. I just assumed so, since the post was. initially at least, addressed directly to me. My bad
Of course she (and the rest of you guys) came back, tails between your legs – but that event will be remember – and retold, for years to come.
lol
Posted by: GSheridan | August 08, 2007 at 12:11 PM
I wasn’t here at the time. I am not interested. Retelling it over and over again is simply boring. None of us newer folks give a crap about ancient history
Can anyone point out a reason for not allowing the marriage other than religious beliefs?Posted by: SolDevVB | August 08, 2007 at 12:05 PM
::crickets::
Careful Tom. You dont want to draw the ire of you know who…
from another thread…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/08/07/bcnchina107a.xml
Why are we still dealing with these people. Isn’t it time we cut the ties?
…as a newcomer, looking back over the strange selectivity of the troll posts, and the constant referral to Brownlee, is it possible they are all manifestations of that person?
I admit, I have not read enough yet to really pose this question, but it is odd that some vile stuff gets on her and the other stuff gets cut.
While “other trolls” like the racist, get banned, those gaybashers, sock-puppets and posers we all know are usually one common poster, don’t?
That recent email exchange between the troll and the editor seemed a bit contrived. And no one ever clarified it, which was a big mistake in terms of blog protocol, you just don’t leave important questions like that unanswered unless you want people to suspect some sort of collusion.
If it is not the case, then these phony posts need to be boosted from this site.
Otherwise, one might wonder who the real source is, unless they start excluding these multi-nickers and impersonators along with the bigots.
No $hit tom… crickets.
VT–
Right, you make excellent points.
I _had_ thought about the down payment to qualify for a loan, which a lot of young couples don’t have.
But had not calculated in the insurance and property tax expenses. Also, home ownership can include big ’surprises’ — as in plumbing waste lines that need to be dug up and replaced or cracking brick facades etc.
Yup, taxes, insurance, and maintenance might be enough to price people out.
Good point.
That’s my queston too JEP. The editors have decided to remove some offensive posts but not others. It seems republican can post any vile thing he wants about gay people, and gsheridan can post any lie she wants and threaten me, but those posts are termed “not offensive” enough to be removed?
And when has a troll ever before been identified as “liberal” or “conservative”? Based on WHAT?
None the less, the troll still holds the record for most posts removed. I think that about says it all. They just get tired of removing all his stuff and let it go after a while.
Aren’t there condos in Wichita? Couldn’t young adults with a little savings buy into a condo? That avoids the “surprises” and emergencies, for the most part.
And besides, there are cheaper neighborhoods in Wichita. Starter homes can be had at a very reasonable price. And after a few years or a decade or so, starter home can be sold or rented out as the owners age and accumulate more savings and other assets.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2843961.ece
Disaster looms as ‘Saddam dam’ struggles to hold back the Tigris
By Patrick Cockburn in Mosul
Published: 08 August 2007
As world attention focuses on the daily slaughter in Iraq, a devastating disaster is impending in the north of the country, where the wall of a dam holding back the Tigris river north of Mosul city is in danger of imminent collapse.
“It could go at any minute,” says a senior aid worker who has knowledge of the struggle by US and Iraqi engineers to save the dam. “The potential for disaster is very great.”
If the dam does fail, a wall of water will sweep into Mosul, Iraq’s third largest city with a population of 1.7 million, 20 miles to the south. Experts say the flood waters could destroy 70 per cent of Mosul and inflict heavy damage 190 miles downstream along the Tigris.
The dam was built between 1980 and 1984 and has long been known to be in a dangerous condition because of unstable bedrock. “The dam was constructed on a foundation of marls, soluble gypsum, anhydrite, and karstic limestone that are continuously dissolving,” said specialists at the US embassy in a statement. “The dissolution creates an increased risk for dam failure.”
*****
Ruh roh. Normally, we could just say, “not our problem” and stoically bear the pain of others from a distance.
But ever since Worst. President. Ever. invaded and occupied Iraq, their problems are OUR problems.
If that dam breaks, we’re going to be responsible. Nothing happens at a governmental level without US approval.
We’ve got the guns and the tanks. We can either have control or we can allow the Iraqis to govern their own country.
We can’t have both.
The US gov’t has an obligation to stop this castrophe or get the hell out and let the Iraqis be responsible for it . . .
And lastly, I hope our soldiers aren’t downstream from a huge breach when (not if, but when) this huge dam blows.
I don’t pay as much attention to this blog as some people do, but if the Eagle won’t take steps to assure identity and control trollers, why don’t you all move on to somewhere that does that?
There are ready-made systems that have all the features you have asked the WE editors for. I think some could be had and hosted for free.
There was the move away from WE blog earlier this year. Is that alternative blog still going, and/or why did everyone come back to WE blog?
::: all out of troll food here today ::: darn near out of any food!! LOL
Farmgrrl,
I’m sure we’re gonna disagree on this one…
I don’t think the WEBlog editors should remove anything except specific threats, spam, and posts where someone’s personal information is revealed. If people want to come on this blog and be jackasses, I say, let them hang themselves with this handy rope I’m willing to give them.
The threats they make, the hatred they spew, the language they use, the disruptions they create – it all says more about the trolls than it says about the targets the trolls attempt to bully.
Look upthread just today, for example. Regular posters who are well-known as conservatives have told trolls to shove off.
We just need to do a better job of not feeding them. I admit, I do it sometimes too. Last night, for example, when troll-prime started pretending like it knew how elections were conducted and how ballots were counted, I rubbed its nose in its own ignorance. The thread went straight downhill from there. If I’d “walked on by,” it probably would have been a more peaceful evening on WEBlog.
Tom, I dont disagree with you. I feel the same way about which posts should be removed.
My point is that some of the posts removed are just offensive. If we banned all offensive posts, there wouldnt be any at all on this blog.
GS has threatened me and stalked me, and others, off blog as well as on blog. She is clearly here only to harrass me, as Sol pointed out today, and Pmom pointed out the other day.
So… if SOME posts are removed because they are mearly offensive, and OTHER posts that come from someone with a history of stalking and threatening, and those posts are allowed to stay….
what does THAT say?
I got a copy of the “troll” email from someone here. Those posts were FAR less offensive that what gs has done today, and that republican does any day.
And I STILL dont ever remember any troll being identified before as liberal or conservative. Phillip did indeed say that. So… why not out the “conservative” trolls as well?
I do think it interesting that when the trolling reached its peak, golfnut and gsheridan both showed up with their flame bait. Just like last time.
I think CF has it right. When the right side of the blog cant hold its own, they’d rather troll it and kill it than have the world see the truth about their positions. He called it ratphucking.
I think they intend to kill the blog. They are just about succeeding.
OH, and btw, I dont see anymore numbers or “we’re number one” posts about the WE blog anymore. It used to be a star in the crown of the WE.
And now?
Well well well.
Thank you editors for removing GS’s threatening post. Really. Thanks for removing it. And I hope threats from either side become a thing of the past.
Flaming is one thing. Off blog threats and stalking are another.
Thanks again.
‘U.N.: Extreme Weather Is Sign Of Global Warming
Weird Weather, Worldwide, Causing Death And Destruction — And Worry About Future’http://www.thedailygreen.com/2007/08/08/un-extreme-weather-is-sign-of-global-warming/4915/
“Some facts:* 11 of the past 12 years rank among the 12 warmest on record for global surface temperature.
* The rate of warming has doubled in the past 50 years.
* The temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere in the second half of the 20th Century were very likely higher than any other 50-year period in at least 500 years, and likely the highest in at least 1,300 years.
* Concurrent with that, extreme weather events have become more frequent in the past 50 years.
* Unabated global warming will continue to make extreme weather events more frequent.”
Here’s a hint.
If you want posts removed, you actually have to email Phillip Brownlee, provide a link (right click on the date by the name of poster and copy link.)
Otherwise, I imagine he’ll think is just fine and the posts you object to will remain.
I know this is late to this topic, but referring to KFG’s link. Yes, real “trolls” are bad. But this, drawn directly from KFG’s link, also applies:
***
“The term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. The term is often used to discredit an opposing position, or its proponent, by argument fallacy ad hominem.
“Often, calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer’s motives. Regardless of the circumstances, controversial posts may attract a particularly strong response from those unfamiliar with the robust dialogue found in some online, rather than physical, communities.”Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore him or her, because responding encourages a true troll to continue disruptive posts — hence the often-seen warning “Please do not feed the troll”.
“The word troll is often and easily (mis)used as an ad hominem attack against someone whose viewpoints and input cannot otherwise be silenced (i.e., via banning). Its successful use and misuse reveals much about how starkly different the world of technicians is compared to normal social and political discourse.
“The term troll should be used with attention since it is a very easy way of undermining an opposing point of view. Sometimes, overly using the word “troll” may constitute trolling in itself.
“Established forum users might all agree on one side of a message as being the universal truth; in which case a “troll” might just be some outsider adding an opposing message.”
***
There ya go.
While “trolls,” who post JUST for disruption, do indeed happen, seen with even more frequency is what the wiki article refers to as “misusing” the label.
Just food for thought.
The only reason you’re not as upset about it as we are, GMC is because
1. trolling (meaning posting flamebait designed to demean, insult, and inflame) happens much more frequently by Cons against Libs, especially in the last six months or so and
2. nic-stealing (posting over someone else name) is almost always done by Cons against Libs and to my knowledge has never happened to you.
It happened to FarmGrrl and Chas and Tom and me about two days ago, etc. etc.
If you had been trolled the way we’ve been trolled, you’d be screaming bloody murder.
Tom,
I agree with you on removing posts (1:03 PM).
But another problem is posting lies, which spreads misinformation. Those posts should be removed — or even better, have an ‘editors note’ added that explains the falsehood.
Capn,
Someone other than me posted over my name? First I’ve heard of it.
“While “trolls,” who post JUST for disruption, do indeed happen, seen with even more frequency is what the wiki article refers to as “misusing” the label.
Just food for thought.
Posted by: GMC70 | August 08, 2007 at 01:27 PM “
Cosmos,
“Truth” is way too subjective for the WEBlog editors to try to sort THAT out.
GMC… I heard one of the court clerks passed over in Butler Co. If it was a friend of yours, my sympathies to you and all there…
Oops, I meant to actually type something.
Good points GMC. I have witnessed the labeling of ‘troll’ many times, because the post content was something the labeler did not want to hear.
I advocate not pulling any post that does not reveal a person’s identity.
If threats are made, leave them. They can be searched at later dates. God forbid anyone take action on those threats, but if so, the evidence trail would be nice.
“But another problem is posting lies, which spreads misinformation. Those posts should be removed — or even better, have an ‘editors note’ added that explains the falsehood.
Posted by: cosmos | August 08, 2007 at 01:36 PM”
And who would be the one to decide which posts were lies and add the disclaimer? -Me I hope-
Dear KFG,
You live in a small town. People patronize your restaurant. I suspect that many, perhaps most, are straight. They don’t want to support a civil union, gay marriage law. But they like good food.
With proper planning, you and your partner can mutually assign durable powers of attorney. If you don’t want high lawyers’ costs, you can get a thousand couples to hire an attorney to prepare the necessary legal documents for less than $100 per couple.
You mentioned duck. Whole Foods Market in OP sells fresh Muscovy duck much of the year. I used to buy frozen Peking duck at Dillons until they went to a salt-solution-injectate-adulterated product. Dreck for the hinterlanders. Fresh wild ducks are nonpareil. Salt and pepper, stuffed with apples and celery. Baked at 450 for 45 minutes. The natural flavor is so scrumptious you don’t need to add more.
Yep Tom, I saw it too. I cant remember when, maybe the Saturday night open thread? The troll was on a roll with nic stealing and got mine too.
Also from my link:
“Furthermore, in a group that has become sensitized to trolling — where the rate of deception is high — many honestly naïve questions may be quickly rejected as trollings.
This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations.”
I hardly think calling republican a troll is misusing the label.
MPS,
Perhaps you’ve missed my comments that those durable powers of attorney often don’t withstand court challenges by immediate family members.
You make it sound easy – “let’s sign a document, that’ll make it better.” But sadly, it doesn’t work that way.
“Perhaps you’ve missed my comments that those durable powers of attorney often don’t withstand court challenges by immediate family members.”
I saw your comment. I didn;t understand it then, I don;t understand it now. Why would it NOT withstand a court challenge?
On what grounds? Sounds like BS by BS judge rulings to me.
Tom, Brian,
I was referring to factual lies, such as falsely claiming that “x caused y”. Those are not “subjective”.
Indeed Tom, I posted an article a while back about a couple with a registered domestic partnership in Washington state was denied access to her partner in an emergency room and was told by a hospital social worker that “Florida is not a gay friendly state like Washington”.
No. It doesnt always hold up. And besides, do straight folks have to carry a marriage license with them to prove THEY are their partner’s “next of kin”?
Thanks for your concern MPS, but my partner and I have all those bases covered. To the tune of $500 to the lawyers. And we have to carry the papers at all times.
And… there is no guarantee it will be upheld.
Tell me the justice in THAT?
I think some of the ‘older’ posters need to be honest. They were blog bullies, swearing at, insulting and generally urinating on anyone who didn’t share their opinions on a subject.
When I came along as Khan, they didn’t like being treated in the same way and left the blog as Fisters.
Now you know how it feels to be treated daily with Leftist Liberal abuse and you didn’t like it at all.
Evidently, the message didn’t stick.
I never asked anyone to like me on this blog, I only asked that my opinion be displayed without be called a liar or worse.
That’s not too much to ask.
This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations.”
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | August 08, 2007 at 01:44 PM
ROTFLMSAO
You remember when I first posted here using ‘Paul’ as a nic? You ripped my face off !!!!
Littlejohn,
Because judges can ignore powers of attorney and declare something to be in the “best interest” of the ill or injured loved one.
I’ve also seen life-partner agreements attacked on “undue influence” grounds.
And wills? HAH! If you write a blood family member out of your will, and leave the entirety of your estate to this unrelated person, that’s open to _instant_ challenge by immediate family.
The “sign these papers, it’s just like marriage” myth is a myth.
Yes Sol, I remember. A perfect example. I think Tracy had the same thing happen to him long ago and recently.
republican there is no defense for your admitted trolling. You always say someone “deserved” something and I guess you fancy yourself the angel of karma to deliver justice?
Nope. You are a vile, nic stealing troll. Everyone knows it. But nice try at spinning the facts. Too bad we have our eyes to believe.
“If you write a blood family member out of your will, and leave the entirety of your estate to this unrelated person, that’s open to _instant_ challenge by immediate family.” by Tom –
=======================
It sure didnt work that way for me and my girls, when my Dad did that very thing just a couple years ago… There was no legal way to challenge how Dad changed his will
That’s why Wills are written out to leave relatives something instead of nothing. What they get may be worthless, but it’s harder to contest Wills where relatives are given something.
Back in the 19th century, it was customary to leave the least deserving children or those not so favored just one dollar.
Chas,
It varies from state to state. And as I said upthread, it’s not as bad as it used to be, say, 20 years ago, but it still happens. ;(
“I’ve also seen life-partner agreements attacked on “undue influence” grounds”
They use that for the “constructive trust” argument.
For the most part, there is no stopping hateful parents.
And the Shiavo case is a great example. Had the couple been gay, Terry’s parents WOULD have been able to cut Micheal out of the process, either quickly or slowly.
But since they were married, his rights as a spouse to be next of kin were unquestioned.
Except by bill frist, jeb bush and the whole republican hee haw gang.
republican, after all the gay bashing you have done, I cant believe you think you can be a legitimate poster on this subject.
And dont give me that “Tom deserves it”.
You dont get to be a homophobe at night and a reasonable poster by day. I guess that is why you switch nics so much? You humiliate yourself under one nic and then try to wipe it off with another nic? Or someone else’s nic.
Yeah I know. Walk on by. Dont feed the trolls. I think that is an appropriate use of the label.
KFG,
The only nic I ever stole and it was an obvious joke is that of J M Walker. I told the reason why I did it, it was because he was calling me Repuke every day several times a day.
If I wanted to troll nics I would do it like these other trolls do, use an false name.
My so-called “nic stealing” was a bad plan on my part because I left my TypePad name in and I didn’t care if it was there or not, because it was an obvious payback joke.
I got punished for it and its over.
For those who keep bringing it up, then the burden is on them now, not me.
In Kansas, a testator (person who makes a will) may “write out” anyone from the will, other than a spouse. This is generally subject to attack, as is any other will, on two basic grounds; undue influence and lack of testamentary capacity. Both cases are tough to prove.
That “undue influence” is MOST difficult to prove, even when there is plenty of evidence…. I agree VT… thanks…
KFG,
Gay bashing? If you will look back at the past posts I supported Gay Marriage, Gay Rights and had no objections as to eliminating barriers to Gays at all.
However, with the in-your-face attitudes of you and Tom, you have managed to change my “never-change-my opinion mind) on the matter and I hold the stance in contempt.
I don’t know what I would do if I had to vote on the matter, but would probably vote for supporting for more Gay equalities.
If you want to lose a ‘friend’ on the issues, then keep pushing my buttons and I’ll managed to make my mindset on the matter a permanent reversal.
“…lack of testamentary capacity…”
That one is also VERY hard to prove… even when there is evidence, even medical…
Oh, so Tom and I make you post the crap you post?
hehehehehehehhe……
Funny for a “republican” you sure take no responsibility for your gay bashing posts.
Farmgrrl,
We gotta stop making trolls hate us so much. Let’s crawl like whipped dogs back into our little closets and pull the doors shut. After all, being “in” someone’s “face” is what provokes bigotry and bashing. We just bring it on ourselves.
Again, any takers on why gay marriage should be banned on anything other than a religious note?
I have still never seen anybody on here, or anywhere else, come up with a LEGAL reason to ban gay marriage… always some kind of religious, or family values thing is brought out… especially the religious thing..
Okay KFG, my gay bashing posts…let’s see them.
eh?
Hmmmm?
What?
Waiting…
Yes, Chas., you are correct that “lack of testamentary capacity” even in the presence of medical evidence is a difficult case to prove. All it takes, paraphrasing much jurisprudence on the issue, is for the testator to have a brief moment of lucidity, recognizing the natural objects of their bounty, and the general quality and quantity of the estate, for the Last Will and Testament to have presumed validity.
BTW, I dont mean that one lame duck argument I got once on here about “well, the law says it isnt legal” stuff either…
Sol,
You should get a koi pond. I hear they are very fond of crickets.
Crickets seem to be in major oversupply right now…
Thanks VT… we learned that the hard, and expensive way… LoL
Ooops sorry Sol… didnt see your post up there!!
Marriage is not a subset of religion SolDev. It is a subset of customary law.
The inclusion or occlusion of marriage by homosexual or hetereosexual usually follows in accordance with local customs.
Yes, customs are often affect by religion.
However, I suspect that some day that the Supreme Court will recognize that customary practices is a function of sometimes an tool of an oppressive majority and rule in favor of the minority just as they have in the case of Racial, Ethnic or Civil Rights.
26 states still had sodomy laws on the books as late as 1990.
Rome wasn’t built in a day.You’ve come a long way baby.
republican, I’m not even going down that road with you. As proven yesterday and every day before that, when it comes to examples, one’s too many and a hundred arent enough.
Go troll someone else. Your postings here are well known.
ugh, bad grammar and spelling today, sorry…bad head cold…
Hmm. WHile I agree everything is subject to challenge, always, I guess I never new that the challenge would be upheld. I should think it would not, at least unless the evidence of undue influence or the lack of testamentary capacity would be overwhelming. But, you don’t always know what will happen in court. As to the Schiavo thing, the feds were way wrong, and grandstanding only, to get involved. That it went to state court, I agree with. The husband had some clear conflict of interest problems, at least in my mind, and they needed to be heard and judged. THe Feds just looking for press. Sucks to be them I guess
And none is evidence of something less than zero KFG. :)
For what it’s worth, when MY nic was stolen, Phillip had this to say:*****************************Thanks for the alert. We’ve deleted the post. It appears to be a one-time troll post. Phillip Brownlee**********************So we may just be dealing with MULTIPLE trolls (aargh!).
Sol, Chas, here it is, from New York’s Supreme Court:
http://www.courts.state.ny.us/ctapps/decisions/jul06/86-89opn06.pdf
You may well disagree with their rationale but there it is.
“I never asked anyone to like me on this blog, I only asked that my opinion be displayed without be called a liar or worse.”
Posted by: Kansas | August 08, 2007 at 01:50 PM
So when you posted a lie, using J M Walkers nic, we were all supposed to remain SILENT?
“If I wanted to troll nics I would do it like these other trolls do, use an false name.”
Then WHY did you use ‘ ‘, aka ‘blank’ the next day, instead typing in your regular(sic) nic?
GMC,
There’s a whole lot of “because the Legislature says so, and since the Legislature claims this is why it says so, it’s our job to rubberstamp the Legislature” in that opinion, but that misses the point of Sol’s original question.
Thanx GMC, Back in a few after the lengthy read…
Farmie, follow your own advice sweetie…
The actual working definition of a “troll” is when you deliberately get on a blog whose hosts and active members are categorically and diametrically opposed to your philosophy and politics, and you intentionally tamp down their integral enthusaism and the spontanaeity of their threads, instead of engaging in meaningful dialogue..
But trolls can only really be trolls if they are posting to an ideologically bound blog, and this one is an open blog.
Sorta…
However, that definition not withstanding, sock-puppets, posers and provocotuers who argue just to anger, all have their own labels that we can see well represented here.
What most of us are lamenting is the fact that we can not have a reasonable conversation, or even disagree with some of these concrete-heads, without it descending into the chaos of trash-talk.
And more than anything else, anyone who has blogged for any length of time, knows that you can not get onto a right-wing hosted blog and have ANY sort of legitimate debate, let alone a discussion, no matter how civilized, without being called a troll and administrated off the wingnut blog.
But whenever one of the ideologically leftwing blogs refuses to post comments from the right,(a rare phenomenon,most of them are open, too) they are accused of violating free speech.
So, the “trolls’ here are really many other things, I’m sure we can come up with some more creative labels for them.
What’s a many-headed monster that spits poison?
FOLKS WE GOT A “HYDRA” HERE, not a troll.
I thought they were tiny people who lived under bridges?
“And more than anything else, anyone who has blogged for any length of time, knows that you can not get onto a right-wing hosted blog and have ANY sort of legitimate debate, let alone a discussion, no matter how civilized, without being called a troll and administrated off the wingnut blog.
But whenever one of the ideologically leftwing blogs refuses to post comments from the right,(a rare phenomenon,most of them are open, too) they are accused of violating free speech.”
Bull***.
The “mainstream” left-wing blogs (Kos, DU), in my opinion, are far more virulent than the “mainstream” right blogs (Hewitt, for example.) In any case, neither side has any monopoly on good, or bad behavior. Bad behavior is just that, no matter which “side” it comes from.
GMC, my disagreement is fairly simple(or maybe simplistic)… A good bit of that Court decision talks about procreation, or raising of children, or such matters…. It would be entirely possible, based on those arguments set forth by the Court, to issue a ban on ANY marriage that does not intend to, or cannot, produce offspring, since the Court deems that as a purpose of marriage…
What of the countless numbers of people of opposite sex marriages who marry with no possibility of birthing children???
To me, that in itself suggests a serious lack of due process on the part of the Court’s thinking…
If you remove that, it is still back to “customary, historical” understandings… And those are ina constant change of flux in MANY areas… Such a “customary, historical” argument could be used as an argument against indoor plumbing, which has been around for only a fairly recent amount of time, or indoor electric lighting… or any number of things that are not questioned now, but were not a part of the long history of humanity, and customary usage!!
IMHO, the Court is grasping at straws to keep a discriminatory practice legal, at the expense of one targeted, particular group of society…
Thanks for the link….
cosmos,
I have already explained that incident many times and I have received a temp ban for doing it.
Not sure what your major malfunction is cosmos, but listen up.
In going what I posted previously on the matter for reasons for doing it, I’ll add the following.
The nic switch to J M Walker and posting under that moniker was a joke and a prickly payback for getting called repuke among other names, several times a day by J M Walker.
I used the blank nic as once you change a nic in TypePad, a new nic will not take effect until another server reset which is about 24 hours. I didn’t want to continue to post as J M Walker, so I changed to the blank using the hyperlink trick.
The poster who posted as another blank and put in that very vulgar post about the Patriot Rider was removed and it was not me. I specifically gave Mr. Brownlee all of my posts including the J M Walker post and the blank post to show I was not the poster who posted that vile information.
i was still punished for posting under J M Walker’s nic and haven’t done anything like that since.
So cosmos, let me know if there is something you don’t understand. I can explain it for about then tenth time now.
Since when did Kos become “mainstream”?
No wonder my liberal friends keep calling me a “damn Republican.”
Heh.
“once you change a nic in TypePad, a new nic will not take effect until another server reset which is about 24 hours.”
Once again, the troll pretends to have knowledge it doesn’t have on a topic it doesn’t understand. The above pasted “explanation” is not the way the system works.
A few weeks ago, when this last came up, I tried making a new nic for myself, and switching back and forth between them. I didn’t have any problem signing in or out. And for the record, I didn’t post under the “new” nic. Someone else figured it out the same day I did – Sol, if my memory is correct.
GMC,
Thanx again, but this looks like a bunch of A$$uptions to me…
“First, the Legislature could rationally decide that,for the welfare of children, it is more important to promotestability, and to avoid instability, in opposite-sex than insame-sex relationships.”
“The Legislature could also find that such relationships are all too often casual or temporary.”
“It could find that an important function of marriageis to create more stability and permanence in the relationshipsthat cause children to be born.”
“The Legislature could rationally believe that it is better, other things being equal,for children to grow up with both a mother and a father.”
Tom, follow farmies’ advice…
Okay Tom you’re the expert on TypePad and TypeKey.
I’ll just plug along with my six Professional Class TypePad blog sites (3 are personal -3 are business) and going whistling like a dummy walking through a cemetery.
Looks to me like anybody can post on WE Blog with any name, and any legitimate email address, with our without a URL listing… any time they want… Thus, a never ending supply of possible nics, sock puppets, etc… Am I right??
let’s try it. Posts will have simple combinationof letters that have no meaning
av99rehaqherh-ha_h
afdasdfasiuewihqq
sure, L J why not??? works sort of like this….
Looks like it. I triedtrythis name with email as
a@yahoo.com (or maybe hotmail)and I tried adfaswith email
a@a.comboth worked fine
See how easy that is??? Gee, an unending possibility of sock puppets, and they can all talk to each other too, and still be the SAME poser/hydra/etc…
I am thinking maybe Kansas should try telling us a different story perhaps….
I wasn’t going to go into the whole children thing, but since Chas and Sol have brought it up in this thread, I might as well.
Everytime someone says “gays shouldn’t have kids,” I get angry, angry, angry. Going after someone’s kids is wrong, period. (I think I’ve alluded to this on today’s thread on Tiahrt).
But I’m not going to share the depth and bitterness over the whole “no kids for queers” meme.
Instead, I’m going to brag about my daughter.
She figure skated competitively all through elementary and middle school. We traveled all around the midwest and plains states, going to regional skating competitions. She place in top three in her class more often than she lost, but even when she lost, she took it in stride and practiced that much harder. It’s not like we were obsessive skating parents, either. We tried to encourage her to spend more time recreational skating instead of competitive skating. We’d just get a glare, and off across the ice she’d go…
She lost her interest almost instantly in high school. Then it became all about JROTC, and the homework, and the boys. (Yes, in that order, thankfully!). She took honors classes all four years, graduating in the top 15% of her class (East High, competing against IB kids) with a 3.77 GPA. She won the Superintendent’s Award for Most Outstanding JROTC cadet. She was Corps Commander in her senior year.
Senator Pat Roberts nominated her for the US Naval Academy, and was accepted at the US Coast Guard Academy. But dammit, her vision wasn’t good enough for academy admission. Now she’s studying structural engineering at a college out of state.
We were such horrible parents. We did such a terrible job.
::eyeroll::
By the way, I tried registereing at typekey. Never could get the dam thing to work when I went to finalize or cornfirm or whatever it was called
Chas, Sol, Tom:
Understand your objections, and strong arguments to the contrary. But the argument is out there.
Just an FYI.
Tom-
you are to be congratulated on your daughter. Outstanding. I do have one, what I would consider legitimate, question. Is it not better that a child have a role model of the same sex in the family unit? How did you overcome that? Obviously you did. I am just curious how?
When was the last time any of you wingers looked at KOS?
One of the most hilarious factors in the world of wingnuttery is that, those of us who actually do read a cross-section of blogs, know that there is much more mainstream, centrist opinion permeating ALL the “left wing” blogs than any of these righties could ever admit.
Some bloggers I know once took a few of Kos’ very reasonable posts, verbatim, and posted them under another name on one of the winger blogs.
No one disputed them, no one argued, some even took the points and agreed. It wasn’t very heavy stuff, until we exposed our ruse, then all of a sudden, the posts disappeared…
We made sure we had copied the pages both to DVD and to text before they were removed, in full knowledge that once we revealed they were from Kos himself, they would disappear.
Of course, none of us who posted those generically agreeable statements could ever post agian on those sites.
Sometimes being banned is a club in its own right.
I don’t pretend KOS doesn’t have a lot vitriolic and angry posts (look for some of mine there, back in it’s earliest days) that would make a whore blush, but like most of the blogs, the wingnut Orielly-isms they spout about left-wing blogs only prove they have never read them.
So just like any other “place”, a blog is a collection of opinins, every blog has many faces, and to assume you can label a blog these days ignores the reality of the blogosphere.
Anyone who chooses not to educate himself on the points of his opponent dooms himself to mediocrity and ignorance.
Littlejohn,
I don’t have a direct answer for you.
But it’s not like we raised her in isolation. Family, friends, teachers, skating coaches, etc. You find your role models in many places in life – why should the child of a gay couple be any different?
I’m unsure if the service that runs the Blog for WE has the Business or Professional Class TypePad Blog, but if you have a Typekey or Typepad name (both same company) you can set it
where all users must enter the Web Site Blog via a password.
After logging in, they can continue to use their normal TypeKey or TypePad login name.
I don’t like the way TypePad has it setup as one user name and password is given on each request, but that could be changed with a little nudging.
What this does is protect the Blog Site itself. That is, no one can enter unless they login first. No spammers – perhaps.
Then, every thing else is normal.
The thing I would add is that each individual must register to get a user name and password, so I have a record of who is who. I would also add a flag if someone logged in under a different IP and send an automatic email to the person to notify that someone logged in under a different IP.
If the person is using their laptop instead of their desktop then there should be no concern.
However, this would be one way of catching IP hoppers and swarmers.
“So cosmos, let me know if there is something you don’t understand. I can explain it for about then tenth time now.”
Posted by: Kansas | August 08, 2007 at 02:36 PM
How about answering my 2:19 PM post?——”I never asked anyone to like me on this blog, I only asked that my opinion be displayed without be called a liar or worse.”
Posted by: Kansas | August 08, 2007 at 01:50 PM
So when you posted a lie, using J M Walkers nic, we were all supposed to remain SILENT?—–
If you post lies, are we supposed to ignore them, and/or consider you honest?
“I didn’t want to continue to post as J M Walker, so I changed to the blank using the hyperlink trick.”
Why not sign out of Typekey, and type your regular(sic) nic in the name field, like Chass and L J tested upthread after 2:45 PM?
I logged in that way, before I got Typekey acct.
Tom — congrats on your daughter!! I hope she does well in her academic pursuits!! My main thrust here was to show that even opposite-sex marriages could be questioned, IF they didnt meet that procreation assumption on the part of the Court… Theoretically, some state somewhere could use such an argument to prevent somebody like ME, from getting married to ANYbody, IF they would choose to, and use the same argument the NY Court used to prohibit same sex couples… Sometimes, I wonder if the whole thing isnt about child bearing at the very bottom… If you cant have kids, you cant get married… Of course, that is still at the heart of marital understanding of certain religious groups even in THIS Century….
Thanks Tom!!
Tom,
Congrats to you and your daughter. Outstanding.
Perhaps I like logging in my typepad account cosmos
or perhaps you prefer this one.
It’s no big deal actually.
Kansas doesn’t answer my questions again…
why should the child of a gay couple be any different?
Posted by: Tom | August 08, 2007 at 03:02 PM
True, one can find role models everywhere and anywhere.
I think it is more difficult if both sexes are not represented in the home. That is not exclusive to gay couples, but divorced or widowed couples as well. I have see the struggles of a widowed father trying to help his teenaged daughters. A sister was available. Still difficult. Of course, it is anywhere. I just wanted your take.
COME ON! MAKE THEM USE TRIGGER LOCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“By LINDA SPICElspice@journalsentinel.comPosted: Aug. 8, 20073-year-old girl shoots 6-year-old boyPolice say girl got gun from behind stove in Milwaukee home
A 6-year-old boy is in stable condition today after being shot by a 3-year-old girl in a home on the city’s northwest side last night, according to Milwaukee police.”
This is common sense.
Sodomite Renald David Dominguez, 58, a former Napa, CA foster parent, was convicted of 19 counts of child molestation and sodomy. The 3 victims were boys in foster care custody of Mr. Dominguez in 1999. His shyster argued for continuance of the 15 charges filed in 1999, until they were finally dismissed in 2003, by soft-on-sodomite-predators Napa County Superior Judge Stephen Kroyer. The court of appeals overturned the ruling, and the DA reopened the case in 2006. By then, the crimes against 3 of the 6 victims were too old to prosecute. Mr. Dominguez faces up to 200 years in prison at his sentencing on September 4.Keep a good thought.Sodomite foster care is reckless endangerment of children.- – -
Judge Jill Konviser of the State Supreme Court in Brooklyn, NY ruled that evidence of “hatred” is unnecessary for a prosecutors to pursue a “hate crimes” case against three men arrested for the death of a homosexual man, but that prosecutors only need to show that the victim, Michael Sandy, 29, who was beaten and then hit by a vehicle in a robbery attempt, was picked because of his sodomy. This ruling, if upheld, would make all robbers who pick sodomites as intended victims, believing them to be easy targets, guilty of thought crimes.New York state’s thought crimes law was enacted in 2000.- – -
Sodomite shyster Eric Tolen, 46, charged and jailed in June on 18 counts of statutory sodomy, was arrested Monday night at his home in Town and Country, MO. He was charged Tuesday with felony tampering with a victim. The initial charges involved raping two teenage boys between June 2004 and April 2007, and now Mr. Tolen is accused of attempting, while released on bail, to force one of the victims to repudiate the allegations in writing.- – -
littlejohn, i am just concerned about one thing – so then if someone were to argue that gay parents should not be parents because the two sexes were not equally represented in parental roles, then what would be the defense for single parents? You can’t like one without the other… i realize that you are not in any way trying to demean gay parenting, but i am playing devil’s advocate here… and on the basis of that arguement, basically, as a single mother with a son, your example would be the same as to say because my son does not have a primary male influence in his life, then i don’t deserve to be his parent?
and on the basis of that arguement, basically, as a single mother with a son, your example would be the same as to say because my son does not have a primary male influence in his life, then i don’t deserve to be his parent?
Posted by: anon | August 08, 2007 at 03:41 PM
No, not at all. I was speaking to the practical matter, not the rightness or wrongness of it. It is more difficult, and if you are a single mother with a son, you know that. You know that there are things that it is much easier to be communicated father to son, just as there are mother to daughter. Doesn;t have anything to do with “deserving”
I think the argument targetting gay parenting is bogus, for that reason, if for no other. There are countless (unfortunately in my opnion) single parent families. You cannot logically accept the one (single parent) without accepting the other (gay) parent model.
“I didn’t want to continue to post as J M Walker, so I changed to the blank using the hyperlink trick.”
I’ve missed quite a bit here, but the notion that any special action is required to NOT post as someone (did I really read that right?) is bizarre.
For this this message, my email address was fart@toilet.turd, and my URL points to the Kansas post above. Instant new nic, with link.
Some gay unions can be productive in raising kids as Tom demonstrated, but are they equal to a straight marriage? What is natural, or does it even matter? We cant keep kids from being raised in poverty either.
But what happens when the gay union breaks up and one of the parents decides not to be gay anymore?
That’s just what happened here and it’s causing a nightmare for everyone.
http://www.michnews.com/artman/publish/article_17505.shtml
Anyone_at_all,
It’s “bizarre” because it’s a lie.
cosmos,
Sorry, but no one has assigned you as the Blog interrogator.
I can choose to answer questions or ignore them. You’re questions were meant to be inflammatory and I’m pretty sure my answers would be used against me as they always have been here.
So pardon me if I don’t feed the troll cosmos with more troll food.
Talk about a disruptive poster, cosmos is among the worst on the blog.
Bible Beater — And your point is what?? That is just another in a long line of “born again” stories that surface from time to time… They went into the birth of the child as a Couple…. They entered it knowing that at the time they were both lesbian… And it ended in divorce… like so many other heterosexual marriages… Naturally, as to be expected — There will be a custody battle… Should be based on fitness of the parent… not based on sexual preference, or religious beliefs… Nuff said!!
Chas went off the deep end on last night’s thread. Surprised he recovered enough to be back today.
That 12 year-old temper is very short.
Kansas,
You can’t defend your opinions, or explain your actions — so you call me a “troll”?
That’s VERY weak.
Parkay you missed one:
Heterophite Ashley N. Thompson charged with statutory rape involving male baby sitter, 15
http://www.kansas.com/news/updates/story/139105.html
A 22-year-old Kansas woman has been charged with statutory rape for allegedly having sex with her 15-year-old male baby sitter.
Parkay,What exactly is a “sodomite” to you?
cosmos,
That post on climate change was from a real scientist unlike yourself who has absolutely zero qualifications to interpret or comment on anything scientific.
Whenever you present your Climatologist credentials cosmos, then I’ll listen.
I doubt if you have any degrees cosmos, you’re sure don’t act like it.
and,
You are too scared to put your degrees if you have on the Blog that qualifies you as an expert on Global Warming.
I can talk about Medicine all day long, but it doesn’t make me a license Physician nor should I prescribe or diagnose anyone.
You are playing “Doctor” cosmos and have zero room to talk on whose entitled to their opinion on a subject.
And as before cosmos, I explained by actions today and at least 10 other times.
So shove it up anal orifice cosmos, I’m tired of playing games. Either accept it or reject it.
But quit bringing it up, it’s over, done, finished.
After this post, I’ll regard any comment from cosmos as stalking and being disruptive and will report him.
You were warned cosmos.
by actions = my actions
Kansas says that it was a “bad plan” to post as JM Walker. He says he was punished for it.
Anyone else notice the one thing he doesn’t say?
“I apologize,” “I was wrong,” “I shouldn’t have done it.”
Typical.
The pathological criminal only feels remorse about getting caught, not about what he did to hurt others.
Oh boo hoo Capn, tell me how J M Walker suffered.
What a classless victim guitar player you are.
See?
Proof postitive. No remorse or contrition whatsoever.
Apologies don’t work on you Libs, I’ve tried it before. I apologized to both Tom and KFG several times and they are right back in my face about the same thing or something else.
No, I don’t have remorse about something as stupid as an Internet stunt which I had no devious intentions to hide who I was.
When someone like J M Walkers uses foul language every day several times a day directed at you specifically and calls you repuke several times a day let me know.
It was a payback for what he did. I could have just turned him in to Phillip Brownlee in retrospect, but I didn’t. He didn’t needed to be banned.
But according to your standards Capn, if someone uses profane languages and calls you obscene names that is not bad conduct.
Go ahead Capn, try and pretend your the Blog Management again and see what happens.
See? Kansas is the real VICTIM here.
Anyone can see that.
That’s why he never needs to apologize.
Hell, people should apologize to HIM!
But it goes hand-in-hand with lying, doesn’t it?
Everybody else must follow the rules and tell the truth.
Except for him.
Let’s see what was that thing you do Capn? Oh yea…
WALK
ON
BY
The last post was a timely reminder that interacting with this individual is a very unproductive process.
cosmos, CapnAmerica, Tom and KFG have officially earned the
“WALK ON BY” logo and will no longer get their blog jollies from me.
Anyone caring to join me, can use the three words so they won’t get their attention they are starving for.
They don’t want apologies, explanations or the truth – that want a blog beating boy. Sorry, not playing anymore.
WALK ON BY
that want = they want
I look to forward to the NEXT open thread actually talking about, ya know, issues.
Agreed, Rage. It can happen, it is just that it is so rare these days.
Huh. So Bush had Lyme disease last year, but we’re only finding out about it now.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1151AP_Bush_Physical.html
The part of the story I like is where Bush is said to belong in the 97th percentile of health for 61-year olds because of his rigorous, daily health regimen.
Glad that he has all the time he needs to devote to his personal wellness. Would that the rest of America could say the same.
“Glad that he has all the time he needs to devote to his personal wellness.”
Not only time, but access to health care and health insurance.
“Would that the rest of America could say the same.”
Kansas,
Tell me why people need a PhD in climate science before they can understand info like this,
‘Patrick MichaelsPaid by fossil fuel industry’http://www.desmogblog.com/node/1567
And tell me why people need a PhD to know that Michaels is LYING here.
Patrick Michaels: “… people are opting for the science fiction of Al Gore’s “An Inconvenient Truth,” whose central disaster scenario is that Greenland sheds the majority of its ice this century, raising sea level as much as 20 feet.”
1) Gore did NOT say “this century”.He only said “IF” Greenland melts, and gave NO time frame. (page 196 of ‘An Inconvenient Truth’).
2) The IPCC says that loss of the Greenland Ice Sheet would cause the sea level to rise about 7 meters (more than 20 feet).
All people need to do is compare what Michaels falsely claims, to what Gore and the IPCC ACTUALLY said.
Kansas, quit feeding the trolls. You have some good ideas, just respond to those who have rational opinions.
Walk on by the rest.
No where else to go?
Must be a million blogs out there.
Try this one:
http://www.topix.net/
Ahhh yes, now comes the sock puppet parade!! How predictable!
Yeah, Chas, working people get home and you and your non-working friends are not alone anymore.
Why do you fear another opinion?
Gee, I see you dont read the blog much… I posted last week, I am back to work again… Memory going, or just dont show up much, spuppet???
Kansas,
Patrick Michaels (Cato, March 26, ‘07) complained that the IPCC left out J.M. Lyman’s report re ocean cooling.
Lyman’s report was corrected after Michaels’ op-ed, due to data problems.
‘Climate myths: The oceans are cooling’http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11664
‘Ocean Cooling. Not.’http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/04/ocean-cooling-not/
“Now it seems as if there is a problem in the data and in the latest analysis, the cooling has disappeared.”
Wow, I stopped by earlier today during lunch and everyone was discussing trolls and gays.
You guys spent the whole day on it?
Really, nothing political, local news, of interest? Slow news day?
Let me give it another hour.
“You have some good ideas, …”
Posted by: Patrol | August 08, 2007 at 08:02 PM
Yeah… like don’t COMPARE what Michaels falsely claimed, to what Gore and the IPCC actually said. /sarcasm OFF
Great news Chas. Hows working life? Welcome to the working world where 150 million Americans are still working.
You get the job bagging groceries?
Uhm. . . Chas: Drop the peanute–NOW!
Thank you.
“peanuts” (i.e troll food. .)
You know, I didn’t know there was an alternative to working for a living until I started reading this blog.
The predictable crybaby liberal song starts again as conservatives join the blog.
Happens every evening Libs.
Get used to it.
“Glad that he has all the time he needs to devote to his personal wellness. Would that the rest of America could say the same.”
Unfotunately, CF2K, the health of the general public is not on either his agenda OR his “base.”
I’m afraid when the bird flu finally hits they will discover–belatedly–that a functional public health system is in THEIR best interest, too.
Bird flu – good God, what you Libs won’t go to for the crisis of the day.
What happened to Global Warming?
You give up on that one?
You sick dogs! Feel very sorry for you.
When the stomachs are full, the dogs have time to play. No work necessary for them.
Well my better half and I were pleased to read that Napa Valley is still producing fine wines despite global warming.
“At at time when it’s easy to juggle concern and buzz-phrases into any conversation, Hampson counsels caution, observation — the wary wait.
“What’s happening with global warming, and what does it mean to the great vineyards of Napa Valley?” he sets up his topic and jumps in, fueled by his training as an enologist, a specialist in viticulture, or the growing of grapes and making of wine.
“Most of what I hear is that in the next 10, 20, 30 years, maybe, the temperature may go up about a degree. Now, from six miles south of us in Napa to five miles north of us in St. Helena, the difference in temperature can be five degrees.
“So a degree? That’s well within the normal range of variation we experience.”
What’s more, an account of the creation of the 2004 Far Niente Estate Bottled Cabernet Sauvignon notes that temperatures in the summer of 2004 running five to 10 degrees cooler than the norm. A bottle of the 2004 Cab is selling on the winery’s site at this point for $120.”
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TRAVEL/08/07/far.niente/index.html
::sip:: life is good.
Normal temperatures, what does that mean?
Man has only recorded measurements for the last 150 years or so. If the Earth is 3 billion years old, then we only have accurate temperature readings for the last 0.000005% of history.
Not much of a sample to have a clue as to what “normal” is for any given area on the planet.
Heck, the scientific world can’t even predict the weather for tomorrow with an accuracy beyond 50%
Yawwwwnnnnnnnn………
Time to go read the news and read up on the latest Crisis of the Day.
How’s the walleye fishing in Canada this year?
Anyone see that article on CNN showing how powerful the union vote still is in America?
“You often hear people talk about labor in decline, that unions are
irrelevant, unions are dinosaurs, that they no longer matter, but in the
political arena there’s a different story,” said Peter Francia, author
of “The Future of Organized Labor in American Politics.”
“I think organized labor is sometimes underestimated because their share
of the work force, the percentage of workers who belong to unions, has
dropped off precipitously,” Francia said.
Union households make up roughly a quarter of the electorate in most
elections. Almost 60 percent of them voted for former Vice President Al
Gore in 2000 and for Sen. John Kerry, D-Massachusetts, in 2004.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/07/labor.democrats/index.html
Normal temperatures, what does that mean?
I’m not sure about all this global warming scare, but I do enjoy a glass of wine or two. If Napa Valley heats up, who knows maybe the best wine country could be right here in Kansas. I’ve read where rainfall increases as the earth warms.
Might be a good thing for our neck of the woods.
Now you are talking about a productive venture! Vineyards are good for the land, the environment, and when used responsibly, the wine is an excellent and healthy product!
Sol, Chas, and Littlejohn,
Thanks for the kind words earlier this afternoon. Sorry I missed them in “real time,” but sometimes “real life” needs attention.
Littlejohn,
My partner and I prepared for those “difficult conversations” well in advance. Two gay men raising a girl means there’s some things it’s best not to be ignorant, or squeamish, about. When the time came to talk, we didn’t shy away from being open and honest with her about the changes her body was going through.
I think many parents find those personal issues difficult to discuss with their children. I can’t say that it would have been easier in a heterosexual marriage, because as you can guess, I have no direct experience there. I know my own parents were _not_ there for me the way we were for our daughter, and in that respect, I think we did a better job parenting.
One thing I’ll add: The boys our daughter dated found out there’s something more frightening than a girlfriend with a pissed-off father. And that’s a girlfriend with TWO pissed-off fathers.
Almost 60 percent of them voted for former Vice President Al
Gore in 2000 and for Sen. John Kerry, D-Massachusetts, in 2004.
I don’t think that is so significant. The unions do a great job of educating their members on the candidates of choice. They also provide huge grass roots – door to door campaigning/registering members.
So after all that work – they only drummed up 60% to the party line. Isn’t the country divided like 51-49 liberal/conservative?
So that’s not much improvement.
Tom,
Two shotgun-toting, gay Pa’s. Damn. Your daughter’s gentleman callers should be afraid–VERY afraid.
CF,
They’re always excruciatingly polite.
Imagine that. ;)
“Normal temperatures, what does that mean?”Posted by: Max | August 08, 2007 at 09:30 PM
It’s the temperatures that our human civilization has adapted to.
It’s also climate — the amount and intensity of precipitation, water supplies, intensity of storms, land suitable for agriculture, the sea level, etc.
“Heck, the scientific world can’t even predict the weather for tomorrow with an accuracy beyond 50%”
Climate is the long-term average of weather.
Predicting weather is like predicting where a wave will move a grain of sand on a beach.
Predicting climate is like predicting the tides — except there are unknown, natural positive feedbacks hiding in the future.
Cosmos,
Here’s a good definition of “normal temperature:”
From http://climate.umn.edu/doc/historical/temp_norm_adj.htmA common misconception is that a climate “normal” describes the “typical” state of the atmosphere. “Normal” is simply a 30-year arithmetic mean, computed once per decade.
1 in 4 households with Union Members? Not sure I beleive the CNN report.
I think the union vote impact is very exagerated nowadays.
And Hotdog1, you are right. If there was a big union impact, why do only 60% of union voters vote Democrat?
Max,
Why would CNN lie about that?
I don’t know, but I did find these stats in about 15 minutes of research.
Don’t know why CNN couldn’t do the same.
USA DEMOGRAPHICS
Union workers 15.8 million 10.7%
Non Union workers 132.1 million 89.3%
Total Working 147.9 million (This number includes 16 and 17 year-old workers)
Retired/Non-working 69.6 million
VOTER DEMOGRAPHICS
Union workers ??
Non Union workers ??
Total Working 83.25 million
Retired/Non-working 39.12 million
Unemployed 3.36 million
BOTTOM LINE:
There were 125.73 million voters in the 11/2004 election. IF EVERY DARN ONE OF THE 15.8 MILLION UNION WORKERS VOTED, THAT’S ONLY 12.6% OF THE TOTAL VOTES!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/voting.html
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/facts_for_feat
ures_special_editions/002264.html
I don’t know, but I did find these stats in about 15 minutes of research.
Don’t know why CNN couldn’t do the same.
USA DEMOGRAPHICS
Union workers 15.8 million 10.7%
Non Union workers 132.1 million 89.3%
Total Working 147.9 million (This number includes 16 and 17 year-old workers)
Retired/Non-working 69.6 million
VOTER DEMOGRAPHICS
Union workers ??
Non Union workers ??
Total Working 83.25 million
Retired/Non-working 39.12 million
Unemployed 3.36 million
BOTTOM LINE:
There were 125.73 million voters in the 11/2004 election. IF EVERY DARN ONE OF THE 15.8 MILLION UNION WORKERS VOTED, THAT’S ONLY 12.6% OF THE TOTAL VOTES!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/voting.html
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/facts_for_feat
ures_special_editions/002264.html
Sorry for the darn double post.
Tom,
Thank you for the definition, and link.
And back to the infamous, fossil-fuel funded denier…
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8149by Patrick J. Michaels
“… data from the Global Snow Laboratory at Rutgers University show that total Northern Hemisphere snow cover has been unchanged for the last 20 years.”
versus, (emphasis added)http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2006/ann/global.html#Gsnow “As shown in the time series graph to the right, spring snow cover extent in the Northern Hemisphere has been BELOW average in 16 of the past 19 years. This is in part due to a trend to WARMER spring temperatures that has led to MORE RAPID loss of snow cover during the transition season between winter and summer.(Data were provided by Global Snow Laboratory, Rutgers University).”
Max,
You confuse “households” with individual voters. A household can have any number of voters, one or more of which can be a union member. And it’s important to parse the CNN quote carefully:
“Union households make up roughly a quarter of the electorate in most elections.”
It doesn’t say a quarter of the voters are union members. It says a quarter of the turnout is from a household with a union member in it.
I do the same thing when I analyze votes. I look at household demographics, not just the voting behavior of the individual voter. I frequently advise candidates to target “split” households, where you know you have at least one vote, but not one or more of the other voters. It’s an important part of targeting persuadable voters to cross a party line, for example.
Why would CNN slant the story to count households?
Last I heard it was voters and number of votes that decided elections. Number of voters per household doesn’t really count, does it?
I know many households where 2 voters split their vote, including my own. You can’t always make your spouse agree with you and force them to vote your way, can you?
Hey Tom
I wasn;t thinking of just those “sensitive” talks, but many of those things that women just naturally pass on to one another. Like the importance of shopping, etc. (kidding), but you know what I mean. those things that are not planned discussions, just information on being a “woman” or in the other case a “man” that is passed on casually, without really thinking. Ican;t really think of an example, but I think they are there. Maybe not, ,maybe that’s why I can;t think of anything. LOL> Anyway, congratulations. No matter how much financial success one has, or worldy fame, it is the lasting influence on the next generation that measures a man’s true success or failure
Oh, and I didn’t see where CNN cited their sources, so I don’t know exactly what they were looking at.
Their story was designed to persuade candidates, and current political office holders, that they need to vote for whatever the unions tell them to vote for, because the unions still hold a lot of power.
Yes the unions still have some influence, but not nearly the influence they had 20 or 30 years ago.
Max,
The statistic was provided as “background” while quoting a political analyst, who probably understands voter persuasion and targeting better than I do (and I’m pretty good at the targeting part). It’s probably part of what he told the reporter in the interview, and instead of quoting a long lecture, paraphrased that part. I have that happen to me all the time when I talk to Kansas media.
When I read the article carefully, I believe the statement is fully in context. Especially that first few paragraphs, where it’s focused on how to leverage union memberships into votes for one side or the other.
I see no lie or bias here. I see some rather wonkish, insiderish political analysis.
Here’s one for the CC books — got this in an email — funnny
This is a true account recorded in the Police Log of Sarasota, Florida.
An elderly Florida lady did her shopping and, upon returning to her car,
found four males in the act of leaving with her vehicle. She dropped her
shopping bags and drew her handgun, proceeding to scream at the top of her
lungs, “I have a gun, and I know how to use it!
Get out of the car!” The four men didn’t wait for a second threat.
They got out and ran like mad.
The lady, somewhat shaken, then proceeded to load her shopping bags into
the back of the car and got into the driver’s seat. She was so shaken that
she could not get her key into the ignition. She tried and tried, and then
she realized why, … it was for the same reason she had wondered why there
was a football, a Frisbee and two 12 packs of beer in the front seat.
A few minutes later, she found her own car parked four or five spaces
farther down. She loaded her bags into the car and drove to the police
station to report her mistake.
The sergeant to whom she told the story couldn’t stop laughing.
He pointed to the other end of the counter, where four pale men were
reporting a car jacking by a mad, elderly woman described as white, less
than five feet tall, glasses, curly white hair, and carrying a large
handgun.
No charges were filed.
Moral of the story?
If you’re going to have a Senior Moment, Make it memorable.
Thanks Tom. I did consider the household angle, but I know my Dad voted opposite Mom, and totally ticked Dad off with every election! (He/We never knew for sure how Mom’s secret ballot was cast of course)
Also have 1/2 my relatives blue collar hard-core Democrats and the other 1/2 Republicans, which may explain why I’ve been a registered Independent since I was 18.
Vote conservative obviously, but I could give a rip which party they are from, as long as the candidate supports most of what I do.
Littlejohn,
Some of what you mention is pretty well covered in the normal socialization of any child who is exposed to a wide variety of people. I’ll also add that we remain close to our daughter’s birth-mother, with whom she has a relationship that’s closer to one you see in sisters who are significantly separated in age.
Ken, I read that a few months ago, can’t remember where. Is it true?
Hillarious either way.
Max,
One of the keys to voter targeting and persuasion is A) knowing you’re going to turn out some of your opponents, but B) you want to turn out MORE of your supporters than your opponents. That’s sometimes a tough sell with candidates, who have a natural inclination to only want to talk to voters who already agree with them.
The story you tell about your family is not surprising, and not atypical. But targeting families like yours works more often than not, which is why smart campaigns do it.
Ok, but wouldn’t both candidates then be targeting the same split households?
If they’re both well-run campaigns, of course!!
And now you know why some people get a blizzard of mail pieces and phone calls, and some people get little or none.
Goodness, another Republican caught in a sex scandal. This one is a chair of the national young Republicans who raped a man who was asleep.
http://www.takingdownwords.com/taking_down_words/files/glennmurphy.pdf
In his defense he might have heard there were some black men around and got frightened and did what comes naturally to closeted Republicans.
L J young boy is orphaned by the death of his parents in say, a car accident… Two of his older aunts who live together, decide to take him in, and raise him…
Society doesnt seem to be terribly worried about who will talk to him about his coming of age(puberty), or who will teach him to throw a baseball or football, or that kind of thing… or what to say to girls, or how NOT to get caught “shopping” LOL
But — a couple of gay guys raise a daughter, and why is it everybody wants to know how they can possibly be aware of the girls growing up needs???
Thats some of what I am seeing here in your questions….
“Whenever you present your Climatologist credentials cosmos, then I’ll listen.
I doubt if you have any degrees cosmos, you’re sure don’t act like it.
and,
You are too scared to put your degrees if you have on the Blog that qualifies you as an expert on Global Warming.”
Posted by: Kansas | August 08, 2007 at 06:22 PMhttp://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/open-thread-88.html#comment-78830918
I’ve ALREADY explained that to you… like in April,
“Science is very specialized. Even highly credentialed and qualified scientists rely on other scientists, when the topic is outside their field of expertise.”http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/04/open_thread_23.html#comment-67519128
Dr. Huie agreed with my post.
And YOU replied to his, and my post with,
“Since you have no science degree and rely solely on hyperlinks, I find your discussions unworthy.”
And MUCH more at,http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/04/open_thread_23.html#comment-67544564
A sample of your false personal attacks,
“Cosmos is just sore because he doesn’t have anything above an 8th grade Science education to back up his claims.”http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/04/open_thread_29.html#comment-68072306
“Which means Cosmos is a blind pig looking for an acorn because of his lack of science background”http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/04/open_thread_29.html#comment-68093158
“But what can expect from a high school dropout like Cosmos.”http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/04/open_thread_28.html#comment-68002306
“Cosmos is going to have a credibility problem trying to debunk anything with this high school drop out status.”http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/04/open_thread_28.html#comment-68016132
“Cosmos refuses to give his degree or education because he has none to offer….Yes, the poor lad needs an education.”http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/04/open_thread_28.html#comment-68025508
Kansas, when you complain about me to Mr. Brownlee, please provide him with your PROOF that I’m a “high school dropout”. :)
And of course, Kansas has how many degrees in Science?? hmmm???
So why does it matter if a parent or two or adopted are gay or not? As long as the kids are well cared for and LOVED…WHY does it matter?
We’ve got kids being raised by horrible heterosexual parents, abusive, racist, hateful, sometimes using religion as a basis for that hate. We’ve got single mothers busting their asses to make it, and the same neocons who hate gay marriage and gay parenting who feel it’s a good idea to keep these women in low wage jobs so they’ll stay in their unhappy marriages.
It is PROVEN that kids raised in abusive families are more depressed, more likely to abuse substances, and to continue the patterns in their own lives.
So until there is a push to ban alcoholic marriages..I really don’t want to hear it about gay parenting. Talk about flipping ridiculous.
Cosmos–
One doesn’t need a degree to read the research and draw conclusions.
You know that, we know that, RepubliKhansas knows that.
The TROLL’s taking a ridiculous position just to bait you into arguing with it.
I try never to post directly TO the TROLL. I will sometimes post ABOUT its posts, but I will not dignify what it says with a direct response to it.
Don’t ask it any questions.
Walk on by.
I’m all out of peanuts now CapN… time for bed… Outta here at 1:02 a.m.
Yup, me too. G’nite.
Capn, I agree, but I had a few minutes to waste… :)
Chas,
Kansas, aka Republican, aka ** K H A N **, aka ‘blank’, et al, does NOT seem to have a “science degree”.
It seems that he ONLY took “Science classes” in college. And how many decades ago?
“In other words Fleet, Cosmos doesn’t have a clue what he is supporting.
As long as he can stick his nose into the GORACLE’s orifice, he’s okay with that.
Also, the fact remains, I pointed out what Science classes I took in college.
Cosmos remains silent because he didn’t attend college or finish High School.”
Posted by: Republican | May 22, 2007 at 04:18 PM
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_21.html#comment-70378532
Cosmos, if you have a science background, why not post it?? If not, that’s OK.. anybody is allowed to read the science data, and draw conclusions… After all, thats all Kansas does, as he doesnt have a science background either… College classes, from long ago, dont have any credentials to address the current issues of global warming anyway… I took science classes in College, too… But I surely wouldnt list them as evidence of scientific understanding for the issues of NOW….
And I am NOT being critical of you Cosmos… Just saying if you have the science background, post it, and maybe shut Kansas up about it… Why let him drag you all over the blog like this??
TOm-
Thanks for your answers. They were answered in the same manner as asked.
Chas-
I guess you can see what you like.
I have no problem with Tom and his partner raising a girl, or a boy. I stated that clearly. I was asking about practical matters. And it is more difficult. In ANY single sex household. Doesn;t matter the sexual orientation. If you’ve done any youth work, you know that. But, you can see bias in my questions if you want.
Political Mom-
Why the rant? I didn;t ask Tom to justify his relationship with either his partner, or his daughter. They have obviously done a fine job of raising her.
And I have done plenty of youth work in my younger days. I know EXACTLY the hell parents can visit upon their children. ALL Hetero couples, as I personally don;t know of any Gay couples with children. So, go ahead and have your rant about hetero couples, women in low paying jobs, and alcoholism. Just don;t point it my way
Chas,
I have a science background… but because I have NOT relied on it on this blog, it’s not relevant.
As I’ve explained,”Science is very specialized. Even highly credentialed and qualified scientists rely on other scientists, when the topic is outside their field of expertise.” http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/04/open_thread_23.html#comment-67519128
I instead rely on scientists like the ones listed in the annex here,http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/wg1-report.html
The troll can’t discredit all of those highly respected scientists.. so he derails the threads by making false PERSONAL attacks on me.
Also, debunking the AGW deniers usually only requires MINIMAL reading skills.
For example, Patrick Michaels’ FALSE claim that Gore said that “Greenland sheds the majority of its ice this century”.
Gore said “IF”, and gave no time frame.http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/open-thread-88.html#comment-78837918
Someone on this blog has tried to discredit Dr. Michaels, a climatologists. I suppose they think they know more than he does.
Michaels Bio:
“Patrick J. MichaelsSenior Fellow in Environmental Studies
Michaels is a research professor of environmental sciences at the University of Virginia and visiting scientist with the Marshall Institute in Washington, D.C. He is a past president of the American Association of State Climatologists and was program chair for the Committee on Applied Climatology of the American Meteorological Society. He holds A.B. and S.M. degrees in biological sciences and plant ecology from the University of Chicago, and he received a Ph.D. in ecological climatology from the University of Wisconsin at Madison in 1979. Michaels is a contributing author and reviewer of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. His writing has been published in the major scientific journals, including Climate Research, Climatic Change, Geophysical Research Letters, Journal of Climate, Nature, and Science, as well as in popular serials such as the Washington Post, Washington Times, Los Angeles Times, USA Today, Houston Chronicle, and Journal of Commerce. He has appeared on ABC, NPR’s “All Things Considered,” PBS, Fox News Channel, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, BBC and Voice of America. According to Nature magazine, Pat Michaels may be the most popular lecturer in the nation on the subject of global warming.”
Note that Dr. Michaels was also a contributor to the IPCC.
The credo of the GW alarmists, if you can’t discredit the science, discredit the man.
This is hatchet job approach that the Alarmists take.
They feel no one, including Scientists are entitled to a different view. And if they do state a different opinion they are relentlessly attack from every venue.
Nice technique eh? Beat the hell out of your opponents by any means including attempts to destroy their careers.
So much for reasonable discussion.
Troll,
Patrick Michaels discredited HIMSELF by writing an op-ed that mislead about snow cover,
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/open-thread-88.html#comment-78850732
and made a FALSE claim about what Gore said re Greenland,
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/open-thread-88.html#comment-78837918
Now… try to defend him, and his INACCURATE op-ed, instead of attacking rational people who can read and think.
Crickets chirping… chirp… chirp…
Hi! I just found this forum and it looks really cool.
Now, I gotta run off and read some posts. :)