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Open thread 8/30
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Aug. 30, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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215 Comments
Edwards: Americans should sacrifice their SUVsAugust 29, 2007 07:46 EDT
“Edwards says Americans should be asked to drive more fuel efficient vehicles. He says he would ask them to give up SUVs.”
http://www.wlos.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.nc/22b7034c-www.wlos.com.shtml
Meanwhile, how is life in your 28,000 sqft home?
Edwards Home County’s LargestThe 28,200-square-foot home also Orange County’s most valuable
http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=3848
There has been alot of talk about hypocrisy on the Republican side.
WELL WE EDITORS, WHEN ARE WE GOING TO START HEARING ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS?
Meanwhile his wife is giving up tangerines…
LOL
What does the size of a candidate’s house have to do with his commitments to helping the poor of the nation? That one never has held any water in a debate…
Numerous “old money” people were not exactly liberals, and nobody seems to question where they got their money, or how big their mansions really are….
But let some of that “old money” spill over into executive white color outfits, and you never hear the end of it!!!
* white collar *
Nathan, a house isn’t a SUV.
It is really sad that Deputy Sheriff Richard Jewell passed away at the age of 44 yesterday. Many of you might recall him as being the HERO that saved dozens of lives by moving people away from the bomb at the 1996 Olympics before it exploded. Only 2 people were killed because Jewell had moved dozens of others away. Later the government tried to pin the bomb on him but he was later found to be totally innocent when Eric Randolph Rudolph confessed to the bomb. I am sure that all the pressure from the FBI and the media probably cut years off his life. He deserved more.
Edwards house is excessivly big. I am not saying he should not have it but it should be TAXED. There is a new law being proposed that would remove the mortgage interest tax deduction on any house over 3000 sq feet. I support that idea. The rich don’t need the deduction.
I never thought I would see this happen. The Crowson cartoon today is actually critical of the Governor.
I suppose when it comes to the Religion of Green, disciples will even throw each other under the bus.
You missed the point chas. Look at the energy efficiency of Edwards estate as compared to Bush’s in Crawford. Edwards is preaching ‘going green’ by sacrificing SUVs all the while he is sucking up natural resources in his home.
Hypocrisy.
I do not agree with John Edwards comments about not driving SUV’s. This type of hypocrisy does not help the dem’s seperate themselves from the repukes. Why are the candidates not preparing the American public for the WH written Patreaus report? Why are the dem’s not trying to educate the American public about exactly how much control they have in Congress? Why are they not telling the American people that they cannot stop Bushies war with the small majority they have in Congress? I know the base wants to hear about going green, healthcare, and education, but there are other issues at hand. They set themselves up for failure by not leveling with the American people. Edwards is a good candidate, but he needs to seperate himself from those that stick to the talking points.
“Nathan, a house isn’t a SUV.
Posted by: Doug | August 30, 2007 at 03:00 AM ”
Hey don’t hammer the kid too hard. He probably worked long and hard on that post.
According to Edwards,
“He (Edwards) said he came from nothing, worked hard all his life, has always supported workers and fought big corporations as a lawyer.”
Apparently, he feels really good about making his wealth from your hardships.
You know what? If I came from a family of coal miners and worked my way up to be a millionaire and potential candidate for the WH – I think I would build myself a big house too… And just because he HAS a big house, how do you know he hasn’t made it as energy efficient as possible? And yeah, right, it’s the biggest house in the US – I have seen bigger houses on MTV’s cribs… PLEASE – if that is the best you can do (besides making fun of his hair) to try and discredit a candidate (on any party, I might add…) then you REALLY need to get a life (and take a close look at your zealousness for your party)…
And another voice from the “Do as I say, not as I do” party has spoken.
Hillary Clinton Campaign Donates Fugitive Contributor’s Money to Charityhttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295031,00.html
Thank God! Everything will be forgiven now.
Hillary gave the illegal campaign contributions back, so everything is OK now.
Ugghhh, the SOCIALISTS are still here!
Can’t get enough taxes, cause they don’t pay any themselves!
Yeah, tax those rich people with big houses! They don’t NEED the money.
WHO decides how much money someone NEEDS?
BIG BROTHER SOCIALISTS!!!!!!
“And yeah, right, it’s the biggest house in the US”
Biggest house in the COUNTY (notice the lack of the letter ‘r’. Easy to gloss over. Huge difference in meaning.
http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=3848“county tax officials say is the most valuable home in Orange County. The house, which includes a recreational building attached to the main living quarters, also is probably the largest in the county.”
“The Edwardses’ residential property will likely have the highest tax value in the county,” Orange County Tax Assessor John Smith told Carolina Journal. He estimated that the tax value will exceed $6 million when the facility is completed.
http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2007/20070320125451.aspx
Edwards also avoided how he holds himself to one standard but wants to hold businesses to another. As anchor Miles O’Brien put it: “One of the keys to your plan is the so-called cap plan which would institute, as it suggests, caps on the amount of carbon dioxide industry can put into the environment.”But when it comes to Edwards’ own life, he doesn’t cap his carbon efforts, preferring instead carbon offsets. “We have committed to operate this house in a carbon-neutral way, which means in addition to using energy saving devices in the house itself, to the extent that doesn’t cover it, we’re going to purchase carbon credits on the market,” said Edwards.
Hillary gave the illegal campaign contributions back, so everything is OK now.Posted by: Max
Yes, please erase from you books any reference to this fine, upright contributor never asking for anything someone made two days ago.
What about the Pew money? Or was it the Paw money?
Hillary give that back yet?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118826947048110677.html?mod=hps_us_whats_news
Actual headline.EVERYBODY PANIC!!!!!!
“Climate change could be causing cougar attacks: expertCanWest News ServicePublished: Wednesday, August 29, 2007″
Nathan I get it. He does have an SUV parked in his garage. OK for him he is the son of a coal miner who made it good the hard way.
Cosmos will be happy with his answer to the greens because he will be purchasing ‘carbon credits’ which will help Algore out. The rich just keep getting richer.
The two most expensive haircuts of prez campaigns – Edwards & Clinton (Bill). Thats ok because he has to look good everyday. Most women could tell him where to get that haircut for a whole lot less.
We must remember: Rich republicans = contemptible
Rich democrat = admirable.
Will we never learn!?!?
This Blog is a prime example of the problems that face our country. We are so busy pointing fingers at one another, blaming one party or another to realize we are living at a crossroad in the history of the United States. Our economy is tettering on the brink of collapse. With the housing market at a stand still, banks holding on to the money injected by the Fed, things are going to get real dicey over the next 6 months. Go ahead, and scroll over this post and act like it doesn’t exist. But you will heed my words soon. The dollar is weak, and not showing signs of improvement. If those Saudis and the Chinese decide to pull their investments from our economy, then you will experience times worse than the Great Depression. The stock market is on a bubble, that is soon going to burst. Don’t think that will impact you? We will see when consumer spending comes to a halt and companies start to lay people off, thus further impacting the housing market. And if the housing market totally collapses, then our economy collapses. But please keep aruging about how Bill Clinton’s indiscretion, ruined our country.
The SKY IS FALLING!
Another Henny Penny!
Oh Woh is me!
The agony, the AGONY!
Hey Mike……the 4th grade classroom is down the hall.
Wow Mike you painted an interesting scenario. A few facts we need to know:
Are the securities the Chinese and Saudi hold demand notes. If not they can’t pull out their investments because they get mad at us. In addition since America is the best customer for their exports that would be tantamount to cutting their own throat.
The housing market has slowed in some markets. These are the overpriced east and west coasts markets primarily. Real estate was due for an adjustment as home values were very inflated in most markets. The market has always had ups and downs and as yet has shown no reason to panic.
While I appreciate your caution I see no suggestion for bettering the situation. “If you are not part of the solution, you are the problem”. This next election is very important. As JFK demonstrated when he lowered taxes, no economy has been improved by raising taxes. That is why we need to look closely at all prez hopefulls. What is their agenda? What do they plan to do if elected? We need to stop looking at the party line and look at their stated plans.
“Our economy is tettering on the brink of collapse.”
No, it’s not. That would be your sanity.
“We need to stop looking at the party line and look at their stated plans.”Posted by: ksgrm
I would like to add, we also need to look at what they are doing to see if it matches what they are saying.
Saying is a lot easier than doing.
“Our economy is tettering on the brink of collapse.”
No, it’s not. That would be your sanity.
Posted by: fleettwood | August 30, 2007 at 09:38 AM
I appreciate your concern Fleet. But I can assure you I am very sane. What is insane is that the candidates running for president refuse to acknowledge the issue. The monkey we have for a president has compromised all of us with is voodoo economics. But you keep drinking the kool aid. I wish you the best
IT’S THE OIL, STUPID – by Eric StonerDespite the Bush administration’s ever-evolving rationale for attacking Iraq – from nonexistent WMDs to spreading democracy in the Middle East – greater control of the world’s third-largest oil reserves is one motive that has been consistently denied. Recent developments in Washington, however, suggest that the White House has once again been less than forthright.President George W. Bush and the Democrat-led Congress are currently putting intense pressure on the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki to pass a controversial new oil law as one of the main “benchmarks” that must be met to show political progress.
In what amounts to little more than high stakes blackmail, U.S. lawmakers included language in the $100 billion war supplemental law that threatens to cut off reconstruction aid to Iraq if these targets are not reached by the time General David Howell Petraeus makes his much-anticipated report to Congress, which is now set for September 11.
Although U.S. officials and the mainstream media have generally billed this law as a measure that will equitably distribute Iraq’s massive oil revenues – projected to reach $31 billion this year – between the country’s different sectarian groups, this is far from a complete or accurate picture of its contents.Rather than originating in Baghdad, the law was conceived within the bowels of the State Department prior to the war. The United States brought in private contractor BearingPoint to assist Iraq’s Ministry of Oil with the actual writing of the text. After its completion, executives from the major U.S. oil companies and the International Monetary Fund got the opportunity to offer their comments on the draft. Only then was the Iraqi Parliament shown the law.The result is hardly surprising.
Except for three vague sentences that deal with revenue sharing, the rest of a 33-page draft of the law effectively lays the foundation for the privatization of Iraq’s oil industry, which was nationalized in 1972. Under the proposed law, international oil companies could be granted 30-year-long contracts that would give them far greater ownership of and profits from Iraqi oil fields than they would be allowed by other possible models for the development of the country’s oil sector. Indeed, every other major oil producer in the region – including Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Iran – maintains a nationalized oil system that forbids foreign control of its oil reserves.According to Antonia Juhasz, an analyst with Oil Change International, the oil law would also not require foreign companies “to invest their earnings in the Iraqi economy, partner with Iraqi companies, hire Iraqi workers or share new technologies.”To the great consternation of the Bush administration, the oil law has been stalled in the Iraqi Parliament for months. Somehow, amidst the horrific violence that surrounds them, the Iraqi people are catching wind of the grave threat that this law poses to their country’s long-term economic prosperity, and are voicing their opposition.”We reject this kind of agreement absolutely,” Faleh Abood Umara, general secretary of the Iraqi Federation of Oil Unions, said in a recent interview. “The law will rob Iraq of its main resource: Its oil. It will undermine the sovereignty of Iraq and our people.”This may in fact be one of the few issues that actually unites all Iraqis. According to a poll released several weeks ago, almost 2 out of 3 Iraqis – including a majority of every ethnic and religious group – oppose the privatization of their oil resources. Trade unions, oil experts, and various political parties in Iraq are all organizing against the law. In June, the influential oil workers union stepped up the resistance by going on strike, and it has threatened to do so again should the law pass in its current form.Recently, six female Nobel Peace Prize laureates added their voices to the growing chorus of opposition. In a public statement, they urged, “The U.S. government should leave the matter of how Iraq will address the future of its oil system to the Iraqi people to be dealt with at a time when they are free from occupation and more able to engage in truly democratic decision-making.”If this war is truly not about oil, Congress must prove it by taking this disastrous benchmark off the table.
KsgmYou are right, they cannot pull out because they are mad. They can demand payment on those notes if the dollar continues to weaken and they stand to lose alot of money. Would they? I don’t know. But the fact that others could hold our country hostage should be alarming to everyone. But there are always those like Fleetwood that are blind and really don’t want to know whats going on. They are too interested in debating the most recent 30 second sound bite and pointing fingers.
IT’S THE OIL, STUPID
Mike educate yourself on the economy and then make posts which reflect that. You might have been reading the wrong publications or listening to the advisors.
Hud that is especially true in that politicians aren’t very reliable when following through on campaign promises. We had better look at their past actions and also at the list of their backers. This could also be a good indicator of what we can expect from them.
It is said that if China does not sign on to controlling emissions, all the efforts of the so-called green industry of the west will be for nought. Wheras many of the economic engines of the past, computers, automotive industry, etc., have faltered, we now have a green industry engine that would sell us battery powered cars and also charge us to take away our recycled trash. I’ll not be wasteful or excessive, however, I’ll not sacrifice my standard of living. Edwards is all wet if he thinks giving up SUV’s will make any difference in emmisions. I drive 4 cyl autos, by the way.
KsgrmIts the repuke way right? Don’t like the message, attack the messenger. Feel free to place your head back in the sand.
Not surprising there are Pentagon disagreements over the “surge”; what is remarkable is that news of it is going public.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/19356.html
Brad the current trend for businesses to build and maintain large manufacturing sites in foreign countries should be very troubling to us all. My son worked for Intel for 10 years. During this time he traveled extensively to new facilities in Ireland, Israel and looked at a new facility being built in China. He predicts the Chinese will steal the technology for the chips they produce then underprice Intel out of the industry. This has happened over and over, remember the transistor radio.
My point is that as long as we have dems hollering about corporate welfare and wanting to tax corps more we will see more and more of this happening. Our country is making it impossible for some businesses to compete in a world market because of the tax structure and higher cost of everything from labor on down.
WE had better wise up.
Actual headline.EVERYBODY PANIC, wait, what?
“Breaking: Less Than Half of all Published Scientists Endorse Global Warming TheoryAugust 29, 2007″
Mike I didn’t attack you just suggested that you do a little more research so you could understand the economy because some of your assertions were patently false. Sorry if I offended.
Economics has long been a pet subject of mine. I look at the markers everyday. The trends you mention if taken in the wrong vein would support you assertions – if taken as a whole will reflect corrections in markets much like the overpriced tech stocks of the 90’s. Add in the corrupt lending industry and we have some rocky road times ahead but not destruction.
Fleet maybe it isn’t fair to publish this now. I haven’t seen Cosmos this morning. Oh well, I guess he could be reworking his approach to the GW problem.
Again Ksgrm, see a problem, argue with how its presented. Don’t try to talk about solutions or alternatives. Simply discredit the messenger and ignore the issue. Very repuke of you.
“I haven’t seen Cosmos this morning.”
I think I saw him in the airport restroom. Fapping. Please pass the eye bleach.
And Mike, how dummycrap of you to not see the message. How about we dummycrapitise it for you so that you can understand it.
If you look at a barrel of apples and see one of them is rotten? Do you throw out the whole barrel? Being a dummycrap, you might. A rational person would inspect the apples and toss the bad ones.
The housing market – badThe housing market – will adjust
Dummycraped down enough for you now?
Duh. Thanks Solly. What would I do without you. I just didn’t know what I was saying. When your 401k isn’t worth piss, don’t come here crying. Have a nice day:)
Thanx Mike, already having a GREAT day. My 401K is quite happy at the moment. Only a complete idiot would sell while the market is low. You’re supposed to BUY when the market is low.
The housing market. If I was liquid enough, I’d be buying that up too. Damn fine time to be purchasing.
Mike 401(k)s with the right manager will do fine. Someone close to retirement should be conservative in the type of stock they are in. That is why a good funds manager is important. A good balanced fund has consistently made money through many recessionary periods. Look at the history through economic downturns. It has been steady growth in the long term. No indicators here would show that not to be the case. The Bush tax cuts have helped the economy so matter what side of the aisle you are on. Tax collections are now coming up to record levels. A tax increase at this time on in the near future would stop this.
Not attacking just pointing out that your conclusions weren’t well researched. Economics is something the lay person can’t get from reading headlines or quotes of the day.
You want to talk about a real crisis?
Social Security Fiscal Crisis.
This is the elephant standing in the corner that everyone is trying to ignore.
He isn’t going away.
UMMMM – HUD read the damn post – I didn’t necessarily say that it was okay for Edwards to do those things – what I SAID and let me clarify the meaning for you since you didn’t get it – was that if he busted his ass to get where he is, why do we begrudge him that? The ONLY reason Nathan or anyone else is jumping all over Edwards about this is because he is a Democrat. THAT’S IT. If it were a republican doing the same thing, it wouldn’t even have been mentioned on here – hence the part of my statement about party affiliation… AND BTW the article said PROBABLY the largest house (In your own quote there big guy) not definitely – and my bad for mis-ready county for country, but as you said an easy enough mistake, that many have made before…
From 60 Minutes on CBS regarding Social Security Crisis:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/01/60minutes/main2528226_page3.shtml#ccmm(CBS) This segment was originally broadcast on March 4, 2007. It was updated on July 8, 2007.
For those who, like I, may be puzzled by the Allawi hiring of a lobbyist in D.C. and other actions he and his supporters are taking, something which may clarify.
http://tinyurl.com/22wakc
If Rep. Pelosi and Secretary of State Rice did indeed join to withdraw the covert action letter, as alleged in the report, then I agree with the author; the election in 2005 was ceded to the Iranians, and now well be too late to do anything to counter the Iranian influence in Iraq. I fully understand not placing the U.S. in a position where it might be claimed the U.S. was interfering in the Iraq elections. If the intelligence of Iranian involvement was that good, though, could not there have been a bit more publicity about this? My memory, admittedly poor, holds no recollection of any statements, etc., on this issue.
OK so the government has proved (once again) inept at providing social security. This is non-partisan, just fact. Isn’t it time we start to try and phase out government from our lives? Start privatizing and letting citizens be grown ups and take care of themselves?
The more you hand-hold, the more reliant people become. The less you hand-hold, the more people will have to own responsibility. Don’t sell the average American short. When in troubled times and left to fend for themselves, very few will flounder.
Social Security Crisis
(For those who dare look at the elephant in the corner of the room.)
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/trsummary.html
http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/pr/trustee07-pr.htm
http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/pr/trustee07-pr.htm
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=1065&type=0&sequence=1
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/TR07/
“This Blog is a prime example of the problems that face our country. We are so busy pointing fingers at one another, blaming one party or another to realize we are living at a crossroad in the history of the United States. But please keep aruging about how Bill Clinton’s indiscretion, ruined our country.Posted by: Mike | August 30, 2007 at 09:23 AM ”
“I appreciate your concern Fleet. But I can assure you I am very sane. What is insane is that the candidates running for president refuse to acknowledge the issue. The monkey we have for a president has compromised all of us with is voodoo economics. But you keep drinking the kool aid. I wish you the bestPosted by: Mike | August 30, 2007 at 09:44 AM”
Mike, for a guy who professes bi-partisianship, you should try to practice some. Your comments plagurize the Demo-Handbook of Idiocy”.
Yes! SolDev said it right.
Time to recognize the problem and time to solve it. Non-partisan? Yup. BOTH sides are to blame. So, both sides need to solve it.
At least 10 years ago, I read a good Social Security solution proposal from the CATO Institute.
A link to their proposal from 2004 is below:
http://www.socialsecurity.org/pubs/ssps/ssp-32es.html
“Mike, for a guy who professes bi-partisianship, you should try to practice some. Your comments plagurize the Demo-Handbook of Idiocy”.Posted by: Sanford | August 30, 2007 at 11:00 AM ”
Funny, I read through those posts three times and did not see the word Democrat or Republican.
Brian,If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck………….
Regardless of what it calls itself.
From Max’s link
“Workers who chose the individual account option would receive a “recognition bond” based on the accrued value of their lifetimeto- date benefits. Those bonds, redeemable at the worker’s retirement, would be fully tradable in secondary markets. ”
I would like those funds to -roll over– to my investment plan at time of entrance into the program. I would like them to accrue more interest…
PS Max,
I think Ron Paul has a very similar plan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-tf1VN3E-4
Very short Ron Paul stance.
Many solutions have been put on the table, but not many want to face the problem.
Ok Sol, I’ll give you that on Ron Paul! He does, and has. No one else in Congress wants to solve it though.
We need someone willing to risk their political neck to solve this one.
As a lame duck, Bush should go “balls out” and push Congress to solve this every day.
Bush did push this in the past, not hard enough though, and the Press did nothing but tear him down for it.
No One it seems wants to face this problem, and the Press is ignorant as ever on this issue.
It will be solved, one way or the other.
If ignored, we’ll just borrow another $8 to $10 TRILLION from the Chinese.
This is the elephant standing in the corner that everyone is trying to ignore.He isn’t going away. Posted by: Max
The democrats will ignore it until after the election. Then they will be forced to take action. Once in power, their action most likely will include:
1. Lifting the cap on income subject to FICA withholding.
2. Increasing retirement age to 70, as recommended by the last study.
3. Means testing to reduce benefits going to those with other investments/savings, and are therefore classified as sinfully “rich”.
Enacting the above three actions will only delay the day that the Social Insecurity NoTrust Fund can no longer meet it’s current obligations.
They could also:
4. Increase the withholding rates for employers and workers.
But I discount the later because that would hurt their baseline support.
…and not ONE word here about the Chamber yanking rummy’s invitation to speak? Wonder how much THAT’s gonna cost ‘em? Musta been some BIG complainers.
heheheheh.
This is what totally blows me away. Want Social security fixed? Elect Ron Paul. Better foreign policy? Elect Ron Paul. You want America to actually have a border with Mexico? Elect Ron Paul. You want a stronger and more reliable dollar? Elect Ron Paul. You want lower taxes? Elect Ron Paul.
He has answers to at least 85% of America’s problems. The MSM fears him because he runs by the constitution and is not bought or sold by anyone, to include the GOP. The GOP is terrified of him because he will tell the TRUTH and not buy into the party lines.
How can ANYONE call themselves conservative and not see Ron Paul as America’s last hope for the future?
Lost farmie. Gotta link?
“How can ANYONE call themselves conservative and not see Ron Paul as America’s last hope for the future?”
I don’t trust him to defend this country.
Fleet,
In what sense? He wants to bring the troops home to do just that.
Ya right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5y8gd2vfew
With al-qaeda stronger, Afghanistan going back to the Taliban, Iraqi government in shambles, Iran –owns- Iraq, threatening to nuke Iran…
Wouldn’t you say we are in far more danger now than pre- 9/11?
Wouldn’t you say we are in far more danger now than pre- 9/11?Posted by: SolDevVB
“Danger, Will Robinson!” as the robot in Lost in Space would say, is when a threat is imminent.
All the things you listed put us right smack back where we were before 911. With the exception of AQ being stronger. I’ll agree, we probably have more grassroot terrorists and more individual cells and groups of ‘wanna-be’s’ than before 911. But I’m not seeing an immediate threat.
There have been some marginal improvements in our intelligence services working together to possibly detect a 911 event, but no matter WHAT we do, we will never ever prevent another event.
Are we better prepared? Slightly. But I don’t think we are in greater danger.
Greater danger equaling more people pissed off at us. More potential.
Today’s Eagle reports that RUMSFELD IS NOT COMING TO WICHITA on Dec 4th to speak at the annual Chamber of Commerce event.
Good job, Wichitans! Our pressure has worked. Sanity has prevailed.
Even the rock-ribbed CONs are feeling the backlash against
WORST.PRESIDENT.EVER.
and his enabling henchmen . . .
Greater danger equaling more people pissed off at us. More potential.
Posted by: SolDevVB
It only takes one bullet.
Let me put it another way. Before 911, you had a man facing you with a gun in his hand about to shoot you.
Today, there are now two men facing you with guns in their hands about to shoot you.
Is that “far more danger”?
The terrorist muslims took an oath BEFORE 911 to kill Americans and destroy our nation. They swore to their God they would kill us – or die trying.
After 911, the children of the terrorists and the terrorists have taken the same oath before their God. They still mean to kill us and destroy our way of life.
We can pull out of all the countries you mentioned, but the enemy is NOT going away. We can hide in a closet and pretend everything is back to “normal”, but that is not going to stop even one committed muslim extremist from fulfilling his oath.
Mrs. Tennessee America Bitten by Rattlesnake, Saved by Mrs. Idaho
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295233,00.html
Bet there was a long line of guys waiting to suck the venom out.
GMC70,
A client brought this to my attention. I thought I’d call your attention to it as well…
http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/08/lawyer_of_the_day_peter_pta_mo_1.php
SolDevVB
I don’t think I clearly answered your question/opinion.
I guess the line from Full Metal Jacket says it best.
Private Joker: Leonard, if Hartman finds us here, we’ll be in a world of shit. …
Leonard replies, “I am in a world of shit.”
And we are too. So the concern is valid, regardless of the degree or level of danger.
Police can’t protect you. Better protect yourselves:
Gunmen kill 2 in home invasion5 others hurt in attack in reeling eastern N.O.
In the past two weeks, at least 19 people have died from shootings in New Orleans.
http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-9/1188109747271940.xml&coll=1
We can pull out of all the countries you mentioned, but the enemy is NOT going away. We can hide in a closet and pretend everything is back to “normal”, but that is not going to stop even one committed muslim extremist from fulfilling his oath.Posted by: American Way | August 30, 2007 at 12:04 PM
No one is talking about hiding in a closet. No one is pretending anything.
AW, why did OBL attack the twin towers? Until you can answer that and resolve the issue, there will be muslims lining up at our door to blow things/people up. Resolve it and you drastically reduce that number. It’s pretty simple.
I see nothing wrong with that attorney ad Vaughn.
He’s helping the poor, afterall.
http://www.kansas.com/business/rengers/story/161286.html
Above is the link to The Eagle story discussing the Chamber’s backing out of bringing Rumsfeld to Wichita.
Looks like SOMEBODY knows when to quit . . . unlike BushCo. in Iraq.
“Paramedics were on the scene in less than five minutes, according to The Tennessean.”
I bet they were. I bet they were ;->
Why did Osama Bin Laden attack the US on 9/11?
Hmmmm…..
Did we wonder why the British attacked us in 1812?
Did we wonder why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor?
Did we wonder why North Korea invaded South Korea?
Did the victims in New Orleans wonder why their homes were being invaded, and why they were being robbed, and why they were being killed?
We are supposed to determine why an attacker attacked us – as if WE are to blame.
Then, just appease the enemy, and he will go away.
AW, why did OBL attack the twin towers? Until you can answer that and resolve the issue, there will be muslims lining up at our door to blow things/people up. Resolve it and you drastically reduce that number. It’s pretty simple.Posted by: SolDevVB | August 30, 2007 at 12:11 PM
Pretty simple?
It will take a vast study and understanding on orientalism’s, the muslim belief system, and pallid condition many arabs and muslims are living in, and a firm grasp of the history which got us to 911. History dating back to the mongel invasions and the beginning at Mohammed’s time. It would include the perception of the American involvement in the middle east going back to The First Barbary War (1801–1805), on the “Shores of Tripoli”.
It would also take “resolving” the issue of over a billion muslim human beings being influenced by a growing number of muslims who truly believe that THEIR religion demands the death of non-muslims and the destruction of the “Satan” United States and Israel.
They have already placed their hands on their holy book and taken an oath to kill us and destroy us (I can provide references, but you can look them up too).
So good luck resolving all that.It’s going to take a lot more than Ron Paul to do so.
Edwards, not saying anything wrong with the ad. I found it remarkably well done, especially the “fine print” comments, given his chosen area of practice.
Or you could watch the video he made explaining it quite clearly.
Sol writes–
“why did OBL attack the twin towers? Until you can answer that and resolve the issue, there will be muslims lining up at our door to blow things/people up. Resolve it and you drastically reduce that number. It’s pretty simple.”
That’s exactly right, Sol!
You have to look at why people do things if you want to stop them from doing them.
But the reich-wing criticizes people who even try to answer the question — “why do you want to UNDERSTAND terrorists?” they sneer.
How about . . . so it won’t happen again?
Al Qaeda attacked us for one reason only — because we had US soldiers stationed in Saudi Arabia after we promised we would pull them out.
This is the basic fact that our government and its lacky media refuse to make plain to the American public.
By invading Iraq, we further inflammed wahhabi hatred — more crusading infidels on Arab soil, desecrating Muslim holy sites.
Perhaps setting up a pork rib shack in Mecca could have been worse, but not by much . . .
Sol I have trouble with Paul on the defense score also. We can’t psycho-analyze out enemies to see why they would want to hurt us when they are stacking up against our borders ready to attack. I just refuse to believe that we are to blame for their hatred. I could be wrong.
That is why I think that the rush to fault the US for the attacks is wrong. Until we as a nation come together on some concensus, we will be very vulnerable. That is what makes this next election more serious than any in our recent history. Just my OHO.
VT:
Hilarious! How do I get this guy in my court?
Thru failed foreign policy we have been occupying the Mid East for decades. For the last decade we have bombed them. Are we to blame? I would guess so. If they did half of what we have done to them, every red blooded American would be up in arms chomping at the bit to get a hold of ‘one of them’. Of COURSE we caused this.
Our undying support for Saudi and Israel is no help either.
So you can drag this through history, try to obfuscate the issue, or you can face reality and solve the problem. American fingers in American pies. End of story.
GMC:
Reciprocity? :-)
When was American life at its best?
The 50’s right? Isn’t that what the conservatives always tell us?
Now we can hang onto the positive gains in civil and womens rights since those high times. We don’t want to lose that. But how’s about we chuck the bush tax cuts, the Reagan tax cuts AND the Kennedy tax cuts and get back to the high times of the 50’s? Sounds like a plan to me!
“Al Qaeda attacked us for one reason only — because we had US soldiers stationed in Saudi Arabia after we promised we would pull them out.”
Cap I think there might be a place for you in the demo defense department. While the rest of us are looking for the ‘reason’ OBL knocked out the twin towers, you already have the answer.
Now for the solution. Could you put your plan on paper for those of us that aren’t privy to the inside facts you must have.
Say 9/11 was America’s fault,that Capn reason is correct – US troops in the mideast caused the attack, then what are we to do about that? Pull our troops out of the mideast and hope that oil continues to flow from the Persian Gulf? Pray the attacks will stop?
Anyone pushing for Energy Independence for America?
“Our undying support for Saudi and Israel is no help either.”
So Sol do I get from your statement that we just abandon Israel and forget any alliance with Saudi because the jihadist don’t like us when we ally with them? Do we then let them tell us who we can be friends with? Should we make them a fourth branch of our gov?
Just wondering. We have to have a plan.
or you can face reality and solve the problem. American fingers in American pies. End of story.
Posted by: SolDevVB | August 30, 2007 at 12:30 PM
That’s a great speech, but it doesn’t tell us how you resolve the guys plotting to blow us up this very day.
It doesn’t say how you resolve the Israel issue, unless you mean to stop supporting them completely, which is the only thing which will meant OBL’s demands. And withdrawal from all muslim countries? Is that how you would RESOLVE the issue today?
Stop supporting Saudi? Withdraw from their soil? And what makes you think that will stop them?
Did it ever occur to you that this is just their FIRST demands?
As a westerner, go to Riyadh, Saudi for example as a woman. Follow their MANDATORY rules for women (even as a guest). There is a big cultural shock out there most do not even see. The clash between the two worlds is coming to a head as the western ways and modern freedoms meets the muslims in THEIR world. We don’t see it here because there are fewer muslim than other religions. But you might look nice in a burka or veil, and riding on the back of a bus – and ONLY with a male family member accompanying you.
But I see Capt America has already posted why we were bombed, so we really need look no further.
;-)
Israel can take care of itself just fine. They outgun by far any and all combined nations of the mideast or the rest of the planet for that matter.
Let’s address this problem courageously! Let’s invest in an Apollo style way in new energies and infrastructure. Then we can tell them what to do with their oil.
Well we can tell them a different thing to do with it anyway.
American way you have looked to far into the future. This is a major flaw in the reasoning of a peacenik. They honestly think that if we become compliant and just get along that they will be no more conflicts and war will be a thing of the past. They really don’t see that this is about world domination. Look at how many countries that have been hit. Why? What did they do to merit these attacks? It’s a mindset and as long as it is fostered by the demos it won’t change. I’m not saying that I have all of the answers but I do think I see much more clearly than some posters on this blog. IMOHO
Then we can tell them what to do with their oil.
Posted by: J R
We can do that today. Just go buy a hybrid car like I did. Cut my gas consumption by more than half. Everyone who talks the talk, driving their PU Trucks and SUV’s need to shut up.
Just using the hybrid technology today in all cars and trucks would cut our oil consumption tremendously. You can still start your Apollo program (I liked watching all the launches), but we have the ability TODAY to reduce American dependency on middle east oil.
JR alternate fuels is something we should strive for. Until that happens we are a nation that relies on fossil fuels – like it or not. We have resources we haven’t tapped – resources owned by us and not the middle east. Why don’t we use these. Environmentalists won’t let us. Do we wreck our entire economy in order to please them. Scientists have said we could tap these resources with minimal damage to surrounding areas.
Just a thought. We have to have a plan.
We go our own religious zealots bent on radical change right here in America. I am far more afraid of them than I am of any Jihadist. With the proper security and independence from their oil zealot on the other side of the planet presents us about zero threat.
Sheesh doesn’t anyone believe America can move past the fossil fuels age? Like a wise man once said, The stone age didn’t end because we ran outta rocks.
Hotdog we too invested in a hybrid. I am not naieve enough to think that everyone can buy a new car and let me tell you, you can’t buy on the used market.
What then do we do?
I see much more clearly than some posters on this blog. IMOHOPosted by: ksgrm
No need to be humble about it. It’s like the fisherman fishing with dynamite who gets caught by the game warden.
As the warden scolds him, the fisherman lights up another stick of dyno and hands it to the warden, “You gonna talk, or fish?”
Not really sure what you were saying but will take a stab. If you are saying you are more afraid of religous zealots in our country than jihadists, which I think you did, you aren’t playing with a full deck or something.
Show me one grand scale demolition like the twin towers perpetuated by religious zealots and I will give some weight to your argument.
“I’m not saying that I have all of the answers but I do think I see much more clearly than some posters on this blog. IMOHO”
American Way not fair to take it out of context. I get in enough trouble for the things I really say.
I am not naieve enough to think that everyone can buy a new carPosted by: ksgrm
I was shocked at the resale value of my 2003 Civic Hybrid. Even with high miles!
Any solution to the oil imports is going to take time. The hybrid one is here NOW. If congress would let free enterprise rule, and NOT set fuel standards, the Japanese will take over the market with hybrids and GM and Ford will go broke. But no congree wants to give them 15 years to meet standards BELOW what I am getting NOW! Crazy.
Anyway, we should encourage hybrid growth and use. Over time, used hybrids will become available for the blue people. We should also drill holes in every square inch of the US on land and our territorial waters overshore. The alternative TODAY is provide more funding to the nations funding terrorists.
” United Nations weapons inspectors discovered six to eight vials of a dangerous chemical warfare agent, phosgene, as they were cleaning out offices at a U.N. building in New York, federal authorities tell the Blotter on ABCNews.com.”
Well the UN inspectors finally found the WMDs. They were setting in their own offices. This doesn’t speak well for their competency to look for such items in Iraq.
VT – does that mean I get to go to St. Thomas so he can come to Kansas?
If so, sign me up . . .
Hope that the oil will flow? Or demand it and occupy? How is that working for us so far?
Exactly what business does the US have in the Mid East? What right do we have to occupy their soil? Intervene in their government? Overthrow the rulers in Iraq and Iran? We can’t get our own poop in a group on the Hill and we are setting up dictators in foreign countries.
And it bit us in the ass. Imagine that. A culture we have no clue about. A mindset we don’t understand. But by God we’re Americans and WE know what is best for you.
Are you really supporting that?
If a country can’t support itself w/o our aid, then where is the mighty UN? Let them deal with it.
These people have fought for thousands of years. Do you honestly believe that because America shows up one day that that will stop?
Reality check. Isn’t working for $hit for us so far.
But by all means, buy into more of the same. Spend more American lives and trillions of dollars. Guarantee another 9/11 then point and say “See!!! I told you !!!”
GMC, that’s what I had in mind….
ksgrm, from the version of the report I read, it indicated that these vials had been in the files since the early 1990s…
This is from a news paper journalist friend of mine from back hom ein Texas.
Sorry for the long post, there is no link to the article.
0809 P1A PURPLE HEART FOR ALBERT?w/picsBy Marc RobertsonOn a balmy May evening two summers ago, the fresh-faced boy with the starry eyes walked across the stage at Dilley High School and received his diploma.It was the proudest moment of his life.Last week, he lay in a field hospital bed, his body battered and scarred, as he thought in silence over the moment when the bright new world he had been promised was shattered and he was called upon to carry out the treacherous duty to which he had given his commitment.United States Marine Corps Infantry Rifleman and Dilley native Albert Hernandez, 20, was at the wheel of a seven-ton armored truck en route to an insurgent stronghold in the Iraqi province of Al Anbar at 6 p.m. on Monday, July 30, when a roadside bomb detonated under his vehicle, igniting the truck’s fuel tank and crumpling the protective panels surrounding the troops like a tin can.Attached to the 3rd Platoon of the 3rd Battalion, 1st US Marines India Company, Hernandez had been assigned to accompany a detonation team to a building in a remote farming village, where troops had discovered an 11-ton cache of highly explosive ammonium nitrate and decided to destroy it on-site. He was accompanied in the truck by a dozen men, the team with whom he has lived and worked since arriving in Iraq for his first tour of active duty.Hernandez describes the route to the target area as a small road between two villages, with irrigation ditches on either side.It was in those irrigation ditches that members of the Iraqi insurgency were lying in wait for Hernandez’ team.”My vehicle was in the lead, and we had a Humvee behind us,” the infantryman recalls in an interview on Monday this week from his field hospital, adding that other vehicles had already reached the insurgents’ warehouse full of explosives and were holding a perimeter. “The bomb was buried in the middle of the road. The exact type of explosive that was used is still unknown, but it was a significant amount of ordnance.”The blast lifted the MK25 truck twelve feet into the air.”It felt like a sudden car wreck,” Hernandez says. “I felt the entire truck lift up, and while we were going up, I slammed my head on something that knocked me out cold.”When Hernandez opened his eyes, he found himself lying across the truck’s steering wheel. Inches from his face, the hood and engine compartment were engulfed in flames.”The cab was filled with smoke. I knew I had to get out,” he recalls. “The explosion had hit my 80-gallon gas tank. My ears were ringing from the blast, but I couldn’t feel any pain. That was the adrenaline working.”Looking back, Hernandez could see the massive structural damage that his truck had sustained.Beside him, Sgt. Tollison was unconscious and bleeding heavily from shrapnel wounds. His back was broken.Behind Hernandez, upgunner Lance Cpl. Eagle had been struck in the thighs by metal shards. He was also bleeding from the head and mouth, where more debris had hit him.”I knew immediately what had happened, and my first thought was to get everyone out of the vehicle,” Hernandez says, admitting that he began feeling responsible for the troop injuries because he had been at the wheel. “At a moment like that, I don’t think anyone cared for their own safety. All we could think was about everyone else and getting out.”In the rear of the MK25, the troops’ ammunition and a rocket they had brought as firepower began to cook in the heat. The risk of a second, deadly detonation was a reality.From 300 meters away, Hernandez and his team were now in the crosshairs of the insurgent snipers, who had waited five minutes before opening fire on the crippled truck. The combined assault of bomb and sniper ambush, according to Hernandez, is a common form of warfare in Iraq.”It was like I turned on a switch,” Hernandez says of his reaction to the situation. “I felt as though I was watching myself do everything I had been trained to do. We had to take shelter in the irrigation ditch on the other side of the road while returning fire.”In the back of the vehicle, Lance Cpl. Cole was still unconscious, despite constant attempts from the other members of the team to wake him. The soldier was not going to make it out of the passenger compartment by himself.In the forward compartment, Tollison had sustained life-threatening injuries and had to be carried to safety.”I was trying to open the passenger door to get Sgt. Tollison out,” Hernandez says, “but Sgt. Schmidt climbed on top of the truck and pulled Tollison out through the turret. I still don’t know how he did it, because it should be almost impossible to pull that much weight up through there like that.”Under fire from the opposite side of the road, Hernandez shielded the unconscious Cole in the irrigation ditch and returned fire.The explosives squad that Hernandez and his team had been assigned to meet was the first to arrive at the scene, followed closely by helicopters for security from the air. Shortly thereafter, tanks arrived and helped eliminate the threat.”I couldn’t believe that this had happened to us,” Hernandez says, recalling a stock-taking of injuries and conditions in the ditch. “We hid in the irrigation ditch. We had shrapnel injuries, broken bones, torn ligaments, concussion and heat exhaustion. I was relieved that we had made it out alive, but then I started to feel angry that it had happened.”We were very fortunate that everyone was so close in the area,” Hernandez says of the back-up his team received from other forces after the blast. “Everybody was pulled out of the truck safely, and we controlled the situation even though we didn’t have any medics. We could have been an easy target for the enemy, with everyone hurt and concussed.”Hernandez enrolled in the US Marine Corps immediately after graduating from high school in 2005, and underwent basic training at San Diego, California, from September to December of that year. Currently based at Camp Pendleton, Calif., Hernandez and his unit were deployed to Iraq earlier this year and housed in a fortified home in a small village. The group’s principal objective is to communicate daily with the locals, to “win the hearts and minds” of the Iraqi people over from insurgent influences and, on a more dangerous level, to serve as “combat detectives,” conducting foot patrols, looking for weapons caches, explosives and anything that can be taken from the insurgents to hinder their capabilities to make war.On the day he drove over the improvised bomb, Hernandez was on what he describes as “the first day of a major operation.”"I love serving with these men, regardless if at times it seems as though our efforts are pointless,” Hernandez says in a candid view of life on the front lines in Iraq. “These men will forever be my brothers. I can’t wait to go back to my friends…. yes, it’s miserable, but at least we will all be miserable together. I want to be with them.”Hernandez thinks back on the family he left behind in Texas and in California, including his friends, the Iness family of Dilley and the congregation of the Lighthouse Church.”I joined the Marines because I felt that college wasn’t the next step for me,” Hernandez says. “My major influences were the men I respected, growing up. Mr. Leslie Parker, my economics teacher, all the coaches I ever had, and Mr. James Iness, who practically raised me, had a lot to do with helping me reach the place I wanted to be. When I made the decision to do this, there was a voice in my head, telling me that this was the right thing to do.”I miss my family, my wife Jennie and my baby daughter Allison in California, and I miss my friends and loved ones back in Dilley,” he adds. “All of their support has been the most important thing for me, kept me going. I know many people won’t care about what happens here, and a lot of people don’t approve, but we just want them to back us up, even if they don’t support the war itself.”I know that God put me here for a reason, and if it was to help save my friends from death on that road, then so be it.”
Oh that it were that simple Sol. I would say build a big wall around our country train big guns on the skys to shoot down any interlopers and we will just live in our own country, with our own resources and get fat and happy. According to the news we are already getting fat. We have to work on the happy.
I could be wrong here but going from a global community to this probably wouldn’t work.
Oops; forgot to post the link:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/30/un.gas/index.html
VT of course it was old. Just a little stab at levity. Guess it missed. It does actually point to their ineptness though.
OK, ksgrm; missed the levity. Don’t know if it points to the ineptness of the inspectors or the file maintainers, though….
Sol a very touching story. As the mother of three sons and a 20 year old grandson it is to close to home. I don’t like this war. I want our military home tomorrow. Unfortunatly if we did this I think even more Americans would die. This is my OHO of course. Albert Hernendez has won a place in our hearts and a permanent place on our prayer list until this conflict ends.
And how has global community worked for us so far? We lost jobs and have had technology stolen by China. We get inferior products from China. We get lethal products from China. Gas is $3.00 per gallon. There are more people pissed and willing to kill us than ever before.
Yup, we’re on the right track.
Now, the other route. Pull the hell back. Put our nose back on our face and quit getting into everyone else’s business. Seems to me, before we got entrenched in the Mid East, the oil prices were pretty good. The national debt wasn’t great, but DAMN look at it now.
It PAINS me to hear people say ‘Give Me More of the Same’. I say ‘Give me back my country’. End this pre-emptive war crap. Get the US out of those places. Mind our own damn business. Strengthen our border and our dollar.
The oil flowed just fine before we started sticking our fingers into their pies. How about now?
Preface to the story I posted and a letter from Albert’s mother
Here’s the story I wrote about that marine in Al Anbar.And he emailed me yesterday… a month after he drove over this rodside bomb, he’s driven over another one, and this time he’s in worse shape, and so are his team members. I expect to write a news story again on him next week.
*********************************
0830 P2letterAN AMAZING FEELINGDear Editor,I am writing in reference to the article, “A Purple Heart for Albert?” that you wrote about my son.You don’t know how your article has touched my heart and those of his friends and family. As a mother, knowing that my oldest son is risking his life for this country and not being able to see him or hold him or even know that he is still alive are possibly the hardest things any mother has to go through, and my prayers go out to all of the mothers that are in the same heartbreaking position.It is an amazing feeling to know that everyone in the community cares as much as they do. Earlier today, I found out that the high school that Albert attended has been bombarded by people who want to send him care packages.I would never have known the extent of this if it hadn’t been for your article. I can’t even express my appreciation for what you have done. You must know that when we read your article, it brought us all to tears. Your sense of bringing the news to the people and your brilliant way of writing have brought more joy than you can imagine to our family, and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts.Sincerely,Adela Hernandez and family
Guarantee another 9/11 then point and say “See!!! I told you !!!”Posted by: SolDevVB | August 30, 2007 at 01:06 PM
I hear what you are saying and can agree on many points. But I disagree with your last one.
We are already guaranted another terrorist attack. They have sworn to it. If we were to withdraw from the middle east, stop funding and supporting Israel in the UN (quit the UN period), and pump our own oil – all of which is unlikely,
They have still sworn to kill us.
I feel much as you do in your overall approach, my problem is I’m not putting down my guns and defense – whereever that takes us.
I really don’t want to WAIT until the next attack to go on the offensive again. That would be like Israel. An eye for an eye.
What a brilliant idea!
IF we only did exactly what the terrorists told us to do, they might not attack us.
Why didn’t I think of that one….
Holy CRAP !!! Insurgent blows himself up.
http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos.do?displayContent=146543&ESRC=dod-b.nl
And what did Iraq have to do with the War on Terror(ism)?
I feel much as you do in your overall approach, my problem is I’m not putting down my guns and defense – whereever that takes us.I really don’t want to WAIT until the next attack to go on the offensive again. That would be like Israel. An eye for an eye.Posted by: American Way | August 30, 2007 at 01:48 PM
No where have I said put down our guns nor defense. Just to get out of the mid east. Rebuilding a Muslim nation and trying to give them democracy was the stupidest thing we could have done.
No one said anything about waiting either. We have an outstanding intelligence network. Let them do their job. We have amazing special ops units. Let them do their job.
Nation building? In a Muslim nation? No one here is trained for that.
*********************************What a brilliant idea!IF we only did exactly what the terrorists told us to do, they might not attack us.Why didn’t I think of that one….Posted by: Nathan | August 30, 2007 at 01:50 PM************************************
If that is all you got out of that Nathan, then you are an idiot. Never thought that of you and really don’t want to start now.
I have an idea, we all post how big our houses are, and then the one with the biggest house gets to be slammed by the rest of us.
I’ll start. Mine is two floors total of 2176 sq. ft. Actual living space 1588.
Sol,
When you said this:
“…Of COURSE we caused this.
Our undying support for Saudi and Israel is no help either.
So you can drag this through history, try to obfuscate the issue, or you can face reality and solve the problem. American fingers in American pies. End of story.
Posted by: SolDevVB | August 30, 2007 at 12:30 PM”
Yeah, that is my response.
The muslim extremists, who are in power, or near the powerbase in many middle eastern countries will not stop until the whole world is muslim.
No more womens rights movements.
WOMEN DRESS CODEIN ISLAMTHREE RULES FOR WOMEN DRESS CODEIN ISLAM (SUBMISSION)FIRST RULE : THE BEST GARMENT[7:26] “O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best garment is the garment of righteousness. These are some of GOD’s signs, that they may take heed.”This is the BASIC rule of DRESS CODE in the Quran. This is the first rule in WOMEN DRESS CODE in Islam (Submission). What is inside your heart is more important for God that the dress you wear.SECOND RULE : COVER YOUR BOSOMSThe second rule can be found in 24:31. Here God orders the women to cover their bosoms whenever they dress up. First, let us review some crucial words that are always mentioned with this topic, namely “Hijab” and “Khimar”THE WORD “HIJAB” in the QURAN”Hijab” is the term used by many Muslims women to describe their head cover that may or may not include covering their face except their eyes, and sometimes covering also one eye. The Arabic word “Hijab” can be translated into veil or yashmak. Other meanings for the word “Hijab” include, screen, cover(ing), mantle, curtain, drapes, partition, division, divider.Can we find the word “Hijab” in the Quran??The word “Hijab” appeared in the Quran 7 times, five of them as “Hijab” and two times as “Hijaban,” these are 7:46, 33:53, 38:32, 41:5, 42:51, 17:45 & 19:17.None of these “Hijab” words are used in the Quran in reference to what the traditional Muslims call today (Hijab) as a dress code for the Muslim woman.Hijab as it appears in the Quran has nothing to do with the Muslim Women dress code.HISTORICAL BACKGROUND:While many Muslims call “Hijab”, an Islamic dress code, they completely ignore the fact that, Hijab as a dress code has nothing to do with Islam and nothing to do with QURAN.In reality “Hijab” is an old pre-Jewish tradition that infiltrated into the hadith books like many innovations that contaminated Islam through alleged Hadith and Sunna.The traditional Arabs, of all religions, Jews, Christians and Muslims used to wear “Hijab,” not because of Islam, but because of tradition. In certain areas of the world, men are the ones who wear the hijab while in others the women do.THE WORD “KHIMAR” in the QURAN:”Khimar” is an Arabic word that can be found in the Quran in 24:31 It is the word that the interpreters or translators use to claim that head cover is in the Quran. “Khimar” means, cover, any cover, a curtain is a Khimar, a dress is a Khimar, a table cloth that covers the top of a table is a Khimar, a blanket is a Khimar..etc. Most of the translators, obviously influenced by Hadith (fabrications) translate the word as VEIL or head cover, and thus mislead most people to believe that this verse is advocating the covering of the head.In 24:31 God is asking the women to use their cover (khimar)( being a dress, a coat, a shawl, a shirt, a blouse, a tie, a scarf . . . etc.) to cover their bosoms, not their heads or their hairs. If God so willed to order the women to cover their heads or their hair, nothing would have prevented Him from doing so. GOD does not run out of words. GOD does not forget. Those who see the head cover in this verse lost their focus of the verse. The verse is ordering the women to be sure to cover their upper chest. The verse does NOT order the women to cover their heads or hair. Even if you accept their interpretation of the word Khimar to mean head cover, the verse is not ordering the women to cover their head but to cover the opening of the chest in their dress. If God wills, He would have given the order clear, cover your heads, but He did NOT. God does not wait for a Scholar to put the correct words for Him!THIRD RULE : LENGTHEN YOUR GARMENTSThe first regulation of DRESS CODE for Muslim women is in 7:26, the second is in 24:31 and the third is in33:59″O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall LENGTHEN their garments. Thus, they will be recognized and avoid being insulted. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.” 33:59In 33:59, God sets the other regulation for the dress code for the Muslim women during the prophet’s life.Although the verse is talking to the prophet which means this regulation applies to the time of the prophet, just like the order in 49:2, the description fits the spirit of Islam (Submission in English), and can teach us a great deal.In this verse, God, DELIBERATELY, said, tell them, to lengthen their garments, and never said how long is long. God could have said tell them to lengthen their garments to their ankles or to their mid-calf or to their knees, but HE DID NOT. He did not, OUT OF HIS MERCY, not because HE FORGOT as God does not forget. God knows that we will be living in different communities and have different cultures and insists that the minor details of this dress code will be left for the people of every community to hammer for themselves.It is clear from the above verses that the DRESS CODE for the Muslim women (Submitters) according to the Quran is righteousness and modesty. God knows that this modesty will be understood differently in different communities and that is why He left it open to us to decide for ourselves.CONCLUSION:God, the Most Merciful, gave us three basic rules for the Dress Code for Women in Islam (Submission),(1) The BEST garment is the garment of righteousness.(2) Whenever you dress , cover your chest (bosoms).(3) Lengthen your garment.While these three BASIC rules may not sound enough for those who do not trust God, the TRUE believers know that God is ENOUGH. God could have given us more details to the point of having graphs, designs and color rules, but He , the Most Merciful, wants to give us exactly these very basic rules and leave the rest for us. After these three basic rules every woman is more aware of her circumstances and can adjust her dress for her situation. Any addition to these basic Quranic rules is an attempt to correct God or improve on His merciful design.We have no obligation to follow but God’s rules, just as His messenger did all the time. Innovations and fabrications that added thousands of rules to the women dress code are nothing but idol-worship and should be refused.
Political Mom,
When you live in a 28,000 sqft home and are telling us to stop driving SUV’s then the size of your house is something to be slammed over.
I tell ya, I think China is experimenting on us. First the damn dogfood, then the leaded toys, now sandals that break out your feet in a rash.
I say we halt all imports immediately.
Then Nathan, by your admission, you are an idiot.
So Nathan, your foreign policy is to occupy and bomb foreign sovereign nations. Over throw governments with precisely no clue on how to rebuild/secure the nation (as the US has proven… twice). Then clam no responsibility. Amazing.
Abortionist quack George Tiller will now file suite charging that merely 6 jurors for a trial on his misdemeanor violations is unconstitutional, in that the Kansas Legislature overstepped its authority in enacting a law specifying that number of jurors for misdemeanors.With 12 jurors, Tiller would be more likely to see a pro-abortion fanatic in the jury box.None of the tiny victims in Tiller’s incinerator got a jury.- – -
Democrats in Wisconsin are pushing for an expansion of taxpayer-funded abortions for any reason or no reason, in a new taxpayer-funded health insurance plan. Health insurance for state employees already pays for unlimited abortions.Meanwhile, Hillary “Hog Futures” Clinton plans to outline her plan for universal health care coverage (=taxpayer-funded abortion on demand) next month.- – -
Katrina Lynn Brooks, 20, of Seffner, FL was arrested late Tuesday on an aggravated manslaughter charge, in the August 3 bathtub drowning of her 9-month-old baby boy, Gene Vincent Kent. She left the boy and his 2-year-old sister unattended in the tub for 25 minutes while discussing a marijuana deal.Marijuana kills.. . .[from an episode “The Big High” of TV's “Dragnet 1967”, aired November 2, 1967, deemed a gross exaggeration of the illegal drug threat, since many drunks also endanger their children, sometimes fatally]:[a young couple let their toddler drown in a bathtub while they were stoned]“Officer Bill Gannon: After twenty-five years on the job, it’s finally happened.Friday: What’s that, Bill?Officer Bill Gannon: I’m going to be sick.”[hands the bag of marijuana to Friday and runs out of the room]
Until you can answer that and resolve the issue, there will be muslims lining up at our door to blow things/people up.Posted by: SolDevVB | August 30, 2007 at 12:11 PM
I think they are lined up at our door already and have no intention of changing their minds Sol:
“Those who are enchanted by the material world fail to realise the depth of the spiritual power and iron determination of the devoted members of the IRGC, which have roots in the religious beliefs of the people, and will witness the definite victory of the children of Islam against global infidelity,” the statement said.
Iranian Revolutionary Guard
statement published by Iran’s Mehr news agency
Hey if he smoked the bag of dope, it might help his nausea.
It IS an exaggeration. There are plenty of parents who let their kids die in the bathtub from answering the telephone, stone cold sober. I don’t think anyone should be parenting drunk or high. But she apparently wasn’t high at the time, she was buying. So that makes her STUPID. Yes, so dumb she should’nt have had children IN THE FIRST PLACE. Glad you finally agree.
Troy butter boy, you really ARE loony aren’t ya?
Sol,
No need to call me an idiot.
Parkay,Did you read the headline about the couple that made their infant smoke and drink?
Oh wait, that was the mother smoking and drinking before the baby was born.
But a born and unborn baby are the same aren’t they? Shouldn’t that mother be arrested?
Pmom,While I don’t think we can halt ALL imports, I agree with a moratorium on China imports.I do not shop at Walmart, and don’t buy ‘made in china’ products. Unfortunately there are not many consumer goods being made in the US today. Thanks in part to Walmart, corporate greed and outsourcing.
Nathan, it takes an idiot not to recognize American intervention in Muslim politics and government and those consequences leading to Islamic retaliation. A spade is a spade.
Brian,
I think we need to get the unborn child to be considered a life before we can start worrying about smoking and drinking while pregnant.
Nathan,”If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck…………. “
Nathan,Good attempt at sidestepping the question.Refocus and ignore.
Sol,
Help me get this straight.
The US sends troops to Saudi and Kuwait, at their request, to help them defend themselves from Iraq. 1990.
WTC First Attack. 1993.
Embassy Bombings. 1998.
USS Cole Attack. 2000
WTC Second Attack. 2001
US Invasion of Iraq. 2003
9/11 happened BEFORE we invaded Iraq. So how did the USA cause 9/11?
SolDevVB,
It is unrealisitic to expect or think that we can simply not be involved in the Middle East in some fasion.
It is definately unrealistic to think we are simply going to stop supporting an ally, Israel, simply because Islamic Fundamentalists threaten to attack us.
So call me an idiot all you want. I am trying to have a reasoned discussion here.
Yeah, “Nathan” –
There is no need to call you an idiot.
No need at all, thanks to your posts.
Brian,
What do you think?
Is smoking and drinking good for the unborn child?
Do you think it is something which should be discouraged, ignored, or enforced in some way?
and don’t buy ‘made in china’ products.Posted by: WichiWomn
How can you tell? Our products or not marked as to origin. Sure if it says “Made in China” you know but if it says “Made in USA” you have no idea where the individual items making the whole came from.
or = are
repeadetedly calling someone an idiot is a clever debating tool. However it is usually only used when no other tools are available for use.
I am reminded by something sent to me earlier this week. 30, 40 and 50+ years ago women drank and smoked while pregnant. Most of us seem semi-normal. We didn’t have life jackets, seat belts, helmets….ad nauseum. We still survived. You fell out of a tree? Nobody got sued. You were a kid, accidents happen.
Hud:I do my best not to. Does that mean I don’t ever get duped? probably not. But, you have to start somewhere. The more outsourcing we have the worse it will get with the ‘made in USA’ products.
“Does that mean I don’t ever get duped?”Posted by: WichiWomn
I have got to try harder. I am getting duped all the time.
We need to change our law so we can tell where everything comes from.
It is unrealisitic to expect or think that we can simply not be involved in the Middle East in some fasion.
It is definately unrealistic to think we are simply going to stop supporting an ally, Israel, simply because Islamic Fundamentalists threaten to attack us.
Posted by: Nathan | August 30, 2007 at 02:38 PM
Everyone knows what Nathan says here is true. Even Democratic Presidential Candidates are softening their stance on withdrawal now, because they know this is true.
And that’s what’s wrong with Paul’s view on this and other issues.
Paul’s views go back 75 years in time, but we can’t change the history of what’s happened in the last 75 years in order to suit and extreme right view of the world today.
America can no longer be a pure Isolationist. Our isolationism in the 1930’s enabled Germany and Japan to rise in power.
Lesson -
Pre-emption.
Had we joined Britain immediately when they were attacked in 1939, WWII would have been considerably shorter in Europe. And increased American vigilance and power may have deterred Japan from attacking Pearl Harbor.
“Max” –
Osama bin Laden created al Qaeda due to outrage that George HW Bush sent American troops to Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia is home to Islam’s most sacred shrines and the US had the audacity to allow female military personel actually drive motor vehicles on sacred Saudi sand.
Nope, it doesn’t make a lot of sense. But bigger wars have been started and fought and suffered through due to smaller things. Remember Archduke Ferdinand?
Imagine for a moment just what progress American researchers might have made toward developing a fuel source independent of petroleum had we spent $3 Billion a week toward that goal, rather than for killing Iraqis.
The Middle East will always be a problem as long as industrialized nations are addicted to oil. (That’s not me talking, that’s what George WMD Bush said in his 2004 State of the Union Address.)
Middle East nations know we Americans are oil junkies. And they know that junkies will do *anything* to get a fix. If Americans redirected all the money we spend for oil, for war, and for this oil war, there would be nothing to fight for over there. They’d have that black cube in Mecca to worship and we Americans would be better off as the new source of ecologically-beneficial energy technologies.
Of course, we’d also have to kick the second-most serious addiction among the Republic Party coalition: killing brown people.
Ron Paul is too old to become President.
Ok, which Presidential Candidate is making a high priority for Energy Indepence for America?
Brian,What do you think?Is smoking and drinking good for the unborn child?Do you think it is something which should be discouraged, ignored, or enforced in some way?Posted by: Nathan | August 30, 2007 at 02:40 PM ”
Is answering a question with another question your attempt to avoid answering the original question?
The US sends troops to Saudi and Kuwait, at their request, to help them defend themselves from Iraq. 1990.WTC First Attack. 1993.Embassy Bombings. 1998.USS Cole Attack. 2000WTC Second Attack. 2001US Invasion of Iraq. 20039/11 happened BEFORE we invaded Iraq. So how did the USA cause 9/11?Posted by: Max | August 30, 2007 at 02:37 PM
You already said it.“The US sends troops to Saudi and Kuwait, at their request, to help them defend themselves from Iraq. 1990.”And we never left.
SolDevVB,It is unrealisitic to expect or think that we can simply not be involved in the Middle East in some fasion.Posted by: Nathan | August 30, 2007 at 02:38 PM
Why?
Retronomics? Some interesting observations on the economic (using the phrase a bit loosely) proposals of the apparent major candidates for President. A bit long, but interesting reading.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aJe.lBOquEIk&refer=politics
I am reminded by something sent to me earlier this week. 30, 40 and 50+ years ago women drank and smoked while pregnant. Most of us seem semi-normal. We didn’t have life jackets, seat belts, helmets….ad nauseum. We still survived. You fell out of a tree? Nobody got sued. You were a kid, accidents happen.
Max writes:
“Help me get this straight.
The US sends troops to Saudi and Kuwait, at their request, to help them defend themselves from Iraq. 1990.”
Not exactly, Max. The US sent troops to Arabia at the request of the feudal monarchy that we support. Many, many Saudi citizens were outraged that American troops were stationed there.
Bin Laden agreed to tolerate them only so long as Iraq posed a threat. Then Sec’ry of War, Dick Cheney promised that the American troops wouldn’t be there “a day longer than necessary.”
TWO YEARS AFTER THE WAR ENDED, the troops were still there and Al Qaeda began its terror campaign.
Ksgrm writes “I just refuse to believe that we are to blame for their hatred.”
Of course we aren’t to blame for their attacks. On the other hand, if we had kept our promise and done the right thing (withdrew troops), we wouldn’t have been attacked.
American Way repeats the reich-wing LIE: “It would also take “resolving” the issue of over a billion muslim human beings being influenced by a growing number of muslims who truly believe that THEIR religion demands the death of non-muslims and the destruction of the “Satan” United States and Israel.”
That’s total crap. Out of the billion adherents of Islam, only a tiny fraction hate the US enough to want to attack it. Even bin Laden doesn’t talk about “world domination”–only that the Arabian peninsula be free of western powers.
This is creating a boogie-man (remember the old Soviet Union . . . that couldn’t subdue Afghanistan or Chechnya?) to justify US imperialism and hegemony.
Ksgrm again, “Cap, I think there might be a place for you in the demo defense department. While the rest of us are looking for the ‘reason’ OBL knocked out the twin towers, you already have the answer.
“Now for the solution. Could you put your plan on paper for those of us that aren’t privy to the inside facts you must have.”
Actually, this is not my original idea. I read it in a book from 1998 entitled “Bin Laden: the Man Who Declared War on America.” Since it was written before 9-11, it was explaining the motive of Al Qaeda in the on-going terror attacks starting in 1993.
It’s just basic historical fact . . . that the liberal media refuse to report.
“Say 9/11 was America’s fault,that Capn reason is correct – US troops in the mideast caused the attack, then what are we to do about that? Pull our troops out of the mideast and hope that oil continues to flow from the Persian Gulf? Pray the attacks will stop?
“They really don’t see that this is about world domination. Look at how many countries that have been hit. Why? What did they do to merit these attacks?”
Look at the countries that HAVEN’T been hit. Switzerland, Scandinavia, Eastern bloc . . .
They hit the countries that have a troop presence in the Arabian peninsula.
Oh, btw, George “Mission Accomplished” Bush quietly pulled our forces out of Saudi Arabia.
Al Qaeda got what they wanted, but only after 3,000 Americans died horrible deaths on US soil.
Mission accomplished indeed.
CapN — glad to hear that Rummy is no longer coming to town… Somebody must have gotten the ear of the Chamber, eh?? :-)
Gotta run for now… be back later!!
I am watching “The Crucible” (On Cable)
A great story of what happens when religion run amok, takes over the courts, and the laws…
“I just refuse to believe that we are to blame for their hatred. I could be wrong.
Posted by: ksgrm | August 30, 2007 at 12:28 PM ”
How can you not believe that?
Is it that foreign of a concept that people hate other people because of what they do and choices they make?
The US sends troops to Saudi and Kuwait, at their request, to help them defend themselves from Iraq. 1990.WTC First Attack. 1993.Embassy Bombings. 1998.USS Cole Attack. 2000WTC Second Attack. 2001US Invasion of Iraq. 20039/11 happened BEFORE we invaded Iraq. So how did the USA cause 9/11?Posted by: Max | August 30, 2007 at 02:37 PM
You already said it.“The US sends troops to Saudi and Kuwait, at their request, to help them defend themselves from Iraq. 1990.”And we never left.
SolDevVB,It is unrealisitic to expect or think that we can simply not be involved in the Middle East in some fasion.Posted by: Nathan | August 30, 2007 at 02:38 PM
Why? They can’t run their countries with out the aid of the good ole USofA?
kgrm says,Mike educate yourself on the economy and then make posts which reflect that. You might have been reading the wrong publications or listening to the advisors.That’s correct komrade Mike you need to go to a re-education camp where you can learn all the virtues of predatory capitalism.Listen to commisar kgrmshe knows best.
There were a couple of other terrorist attacks in that timeline as well:
June 1996–Khobar Towers, Saudi Arabia, destroyed by a truck bomb. This building housed USAirForce personnel. 19 Americans were killed.
December 1999–Ahmed Ressam caught crossing the Canadian border into the US with a car bomb intended for LAX airport.
January 2000–Al Qaeda attempts two attacks on The USS The Sullivans (guided missile destroyer) in Yemen. Overloaded attack vessels sink.
May 2004–2nd Khobar attack. Gunmen kill 22 foreigners (one American). Saudi forces let attackers escape in broad daylight.
Also, the Riyadh compound bombings in May of 2003, killing nine Americans.
When the going gets tough, the Democrats hold up the surrender flag.
Sure glad they weren’t the majority in 1776.
This is for you, Kansas.
http://www.latimes.com/news/la-na-soltz30aug30,0,4081381.story?coll=la-tot-topstories&track=ntottext
Soldier answers a new call to battle
Since starting VoteVets.org, Jon Soltz has shaken up the war debate, became a MSNBC regular and challenged the GOP on military issues.
By Noam N. Levey, Los Angeles Times Staff WriterAugust 30, 2007
NEW YORK — Jon Soltz rapped his pen on a conference table as he ran through plans to take on politicians who back the war in Iraq.
The former Army captain and Iraq war veteran demanded television ads. “I want a hit on Fox,” he barked into a speakerphone.
He wanted more e-mail blasts and more donors. “Do we have a target list?” he asked of the team gathered for a Monday morning conference call. “Let’s go get those dollars.”
He seethed when the phone went dead during a discussion of an upcoming fundraiser. He raged about a war protest scheduled for Memorial Day: “It’s offensive. I can’t defend that.”
There isn’t much to the nerve center of his operation: three rooms lit by bare fluorescent lights on the seventh floor of a dingy Manhattan office building.
But in a little more than a year since he launched VoteVets. org, Soltz has helped transform the war debate in Washington by channeling the raw anger and frustration of many Iraq vets into a political campaign both sophisticated and visceral. Soltz, 30, and his band of mostly twenty- and thirtysomething veterans have shaken the GOP’s claim to be the pro-military party. They accuse Republicans of recklessly sending troops to war without the right equipment and failing to care for thousands of wounded and traumatized vets.
During the 2006 election, VoteVets’ stark attack ads featuring disillusioned veterans helped unseat Republicans in five states, including Sen. George Allen of Virginia and Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, whose defeats gave Democrats an unexpected Senate majority.
This year, Soltz and VoteVets have been a constant presence on Capitol Hill, where they have emboldened Democrats to push for a U.S. withdrawal from Iraq.
You republiCONs stick to the name calling and the slime machine.
Let’s see if that works out as well for you next time as it did last time, when repukes lost the House and the Senate, heigh ho.
Good for them Capn they are allowed to have their American rights.
However, regardless of their background, I will still hold them accountable for the carnage they will leave behind in Iraq if they get their way by hoisting the surrender flag.
Brian,
It depends. I don’t think there should be a law against it, but it should be discouraged.
It isn’t much different than a parent smokling in the home with a child.
I think you shouldn’t do it… but pass a law to stop it? I don’t know.
So, what do you think?
Annie Moose were you the economics teacher? The sky is falling attitude Mike had this morning wasn’t right. The economy is strong in many ways. Why would encouraging him to get some guidance make me the enemy?
Cap we go to Saudi at their invitation, don’t leave when OBL thought that we should so we are responsible for making militant Islam hate us. OK..
I still say they attacked us. We didn’t make them hate us. If we were in BinLadens yard why haven’t we found his house/cave there. If not why is he justified in bombing the towers?
Bin Laden is probably in Saudi Arabia right now.
Saudi plays the US on both sides. And they have a plan B with Putin, just in case we figure that out.
Remember how happy the World was when Iraq and Iran fought each other for 10 years? Our enemies were killing our enemies, and we were making $$ selling arms to both sides.
Those were the days.
Maybe we should go back to that.
Ksgrm–
Yes. Not leaving Saudi Arabia as planned had the foreseeable effect of infuriating a generation of Arabs who had just returned from kicking the Russians out of another Islamic country, Afghanistan.
The US chose to stay to further its hegemony in the middle east. Terrorism was practically inevitable.
People who smoke and get lung cancer don’t deserve to get cancer. But not smoking eliminates the threat, does it not?
Kansas is so terribly worried about all the Iraqis who will be killed by Iraqis when we leave.
Strangely, he’s not at all concerned about the Iraqis we killed and continue to kill.
That’s what you have to believe to be a republiCON these days. Dying at the hands of Iraqis is bad. Dying at the hands of Americans is okay.
CapnAmerica,
And the girl walking down the street by herself caused the rapist to rape her…
She should have known better right?
Better yet, the girl who got raped by her date caused that too.
It is commonly known that a good chunk of rapes happen by date rape. She should have known better.
Only double dates, I tell you!
“So, what do you think?
Posted by: Nathan | August 30, 2007 at 04:57 PM ”
I also do not think it should be illegal.
“It depends. I don’t think there should be a law against it, but it should be discouraged.
It isn’t much different than a parent smokling in the home with a child.
I think you shouldn’t do it… but pass a law to stop it? I don’t know.
So, what do you think?
Posted by: Nathan | August 30, 2007 at 04:57 PM ”
You think an unborn baby is a person right?If a pregnant mother can force her baby to smoke and drink (by smoking and drinking herself) how is that different from a mother putting a cigarette and whiskey in the hands of a 2 year old?There should be no difference if they are both people.
No Capn,
I can’t help it if you are prejudiced against Arab people and don’t think of them as human beings.
Evidently you think Iraqis are entitled to freedom or even their own lives.
For you Capn, it’s Health Scare and Wealth Scare, the signature of pure socialism.
Tell me again Capn about how 600,000 Iraqi civilians died according to your Democratic Party’s scholarly approach in calculating deaths. Even cosmos swallowed on that one.
Concern about outlaw Iraqis we kill? Absolutely not concerned. No more than I am concerned about outlaw Americans who commit or threaten deadly violence in America.
Maybe you stop by Jabarra’s Capn and show them your hate for Arabs.
think Iraqis are entitled to freedom=think Iraqis aren’t entitled to freedom
YES! Finally!
Fred Thompson to Make ‘08Candidacy Official Next Week
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295308,00.html
Brian,
Ok brian. You convinced me.
When you consider the unborn baby to be a life then I will support your efforts to make it wrong for a mother to smoke or drink while she is pregnant.
Ho Hum.
I don’t support extending the rights of born babies to unborn babies.You, and others do claim that unborn babies are ‘living’ people. Therefore, you must advocate extending the rights of living people to them. Otherwise your pro-life stance is just hypocrisy.
Brian,
If you don’t support the unborn being treated as humans then why are you arguing that a pregnant mother shouldn’t be allowed to smoke or drink?
Pro-Abortion people enjoy playing God Nathan, you can’t defeat someone in argument who holds their view as omniscient.
“why are you arguing that a pregnant mother shouldn’t be allowed to smoke or drink?
Posted by: Nathan | August 30, 2007 at 05:32 PM”
I am arguing that pro-lifers must advocate providing the same legal protections to the unborn as are provided to the born. It is illegal for a mother to give a baby a beer. If you are pro-life you must also think it illegal for a mother to give an unborn baby a beer.
Brian,
Thank you for telling me what I must think.
Perhaps things would be easier for you if you just argued with yourself?
Ummm Kansas… IIRC, when I went to school with them, the Jabarra’s are Lebanese… not Arabs… They are also Orthodox Christians…
Sorry Nathan I left out some words.If you are pro-life you must also think it illegal for a mother to give an unborn baby a beer or your view on abortion being murder is hypocritical.
For abortion to be considered murder, an unborn baby must have the same rights as a born baby. If an unborn baby has the same rights as a born baby, then it would be illegal for a pregnant woman to drink or smoke.
“Ummm Kansas… IIRC, when I went to school with them, the Jabarra’s are Lebanese… not Arabs… They are also Orthodox Christians…
Posted by: Chas. | August 30, 2007 at 05:41 PM ”
Based on the attitude reflected in his posts he probably thinks they are all the same anyway.
Nathan,If you have an arguement why I am wrong, I would love to hear it.I base my conclusions only on what I know at this time. If you can enlighten me to something different, I would be more than willing to change my views.
Lebanese are mostly of Arab decent. There are many Arab Christians in Lebanon. Although the Christians deny they are Arab but claim to be Canaanite, a country which hasn’t existed for several thousand years.
Arab 95%, Armenian 4%, other 1%note: many Christian Lebanese do not identify themselves as Arab but rather as descendants of the ancient Canaanites and prefer to be called Phoenicians.
They are all of the Semitic race and share common ancestry.
n linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical “Shem”, Hebrew: ??, translated as “name”, Arabic: ?????) was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Akkadian, Ge’ez, Hebrew, Phoenician, Maltese, Tigre and Tigrinya among others.
Language and culture differences does not change ones genetics.
Brian,
This is a false premise:
“For abortion to be considered murder, an unborn baby must have the same rights as a born baby.”
An unborn baby doesn’t have to be given the same rights as a born baby for an abortion to be considered murder.
An unborn baby need only be recognized as a living human being to have an abortion be considered wrong.
“1939-1945 • Because ethnic records were not kept, it is difficult to ascertain exact numbers who served in the U.S. Armed Forces during World War II. But it is a reasonable estimate that at least 30,000 GIs of Arab lineage fought for this country against Hitler, Mussolini, and General Tojo of Japan. Judging by isolated records, it is likely that a great percentage also enlisted in World War I. In fact,
America’s first World War II flying ace was Col. James Jabara. A native of Wichita, Kansas, and of Lebanese descent, Jabara would later shoot down 15 Russian MIGS in the Korean War to extend his top “ace” status into the 1950s (a fighter “ace” is designated when a pilot downs more than five of the enemy’s aircraft). Jabara was virtually unknown by the Syrian community in the United States until his name was flashed across banner headlines in the New York Times. He was awarded two Distinguished Flying Crosses, and in 1950 he was named by the Air Force Association as its most distinguished aviator. He died in a car accident in 1966.”
That is from an Arab-American Website.
The Lebanese share 95% of their genetic history with the Arabians, so you are implying they are pretty much the same thing.
Humans share at least 95% of their genes with chimpanzees. Does that mean we are pretty much the same?
Lebanese Americans are American citizens of Lebanese descent. This includes both those who are native to the United States as well as Lebanese immigrants to America. The vast majority of them are Christians, in particular Maronites. Lebanese Americans were the first Arab group that started to immigrate to the United States in large numbers, with some arriving as early as the late 18th century.
Many Lebanese Americans are at least third generation, with hot time periods of immigration to the United States being in the mid-19th century and between 1890–1930. At the time, many settled in New York City (specifically Brooklyn and Manhattan) and Detroit, Michigan. During the Lebanese Civil War between 1975 and 1990, a large number of Lebanese immigrated to America, as well, this time with more Muslims immigrating in comparison to previous periods, when the immigrants were mainly Christians.
Lebanese Americans comprise 0.2% of the American population as of the 2000 Census. Among cities with large Lebanese American populations are Dearborn, Michigan, which has a large Shi’ite Muslim Lebanese population which started as early as 50 years ago, and Paterson, New Jersey, which has had a large Christian Lebanese population since the late 19th century. Sterling Heights, Michigan and Jacksonville, Florida also have sizable Lebanese populations.
Wikipedia
Oh good Lord, now you are an expert on Arabic language, and ancient Middle Eastern Tribes, too?? This is purely unbelieveable!! Now you even know their familial descent???
Sure, you do, Kansas… After all, you’re the expert…. I am not going to argue with you about people I have known for years in this city!! Not tonight!!
“An unborn baby need only be recognized as a living human being to have an abortion be considered wrong.
Posted by: Nathan | August 30, 2007 at 05:54 PM”
How can an unborn baby logically be recognized as a living human being without extending it the rights of other living human beings that are born?
That does not make sense.
Humans share at least 95% of their genes with chimpanzees. Does that mean we are pretty much the same?
Posted by: brian | August 30, 2007 at 05:55 PM
I’m not going to answer the question you should already know the answer to brian.
I won’t insult your intelligence by giving the obvious answer.
So, I’ll let you spin on the spider web string of ignorance that you wove.
Hint Chas, I have relatives who are Lebanese Americans and Christian.
yeah. ok. thanks
But of course you do, Kansas… Sometimes I think you have relatives who are the same ethnic background of anybody posting anything on the Blog… But, like I said, I am not going to argue with you about it, since you seem to be the resident expert…
(a fighter “ace” is designated when a pilot downs more than five of the enemy’s aircraft).
How about downs five enemy aircraft.
Brian,
Does a 12 year old have all the same rights that a 30 year old does?
No.
So should we consider the 12 year old to not be a human being worthy of protection?
People from all ages are granted different rights, the amount of rights someone has doesn’t determine the validity of their being a life worthy of protecting.
That is where your argument falls apart.
You are trying to say that in order to be a life worthy of protecting one must be granted all the same rights as anotherlife worthy of protecting which simply isn’t true.
Ok, not all the same rights, but all of the same basic rights. Life, health, protection from undue harm, etc.Of course not voting, driving a car or being President.Do people of all ages have the same right to be safe or is that limited by age?
(a fighter “ace” is designated when a pilot downs more than five of the enemy’s aircraft).
How about downs five enemy aircraft.
Posted by: hud | August 30, 2007 at 06:02 PM
Blame the writer on the Website for their word choice. I see what you are saying hud, but can’t change what is written on their Website.
Brian,
“Do people of all ages have the same right to be safe or is that limited by age?”
To a certain extent, yes. There are going to be exceptions or differences. As there already are.
A mother leaving her 3 year old unattended and alone for a whole day would be considered unsafe and potentially harmful as opposed to a mother leaving her 15 year old home alone for a whole day.
I didn’t know all of this about the Sunflower plants, interesting. Why on earth would we allow them to be built here?http://kansas.sierraclub.org/Wind/Coal%20Moratorium.htm
Because of the water source needed to run them The Phantom and also, land is cheaper, less population and the other states have tougher Environmental laws than Kansas.
Sometimes I think we should stop providing power to all the people who are obstructionists to expanding the power infrastructure.
They don’t want us to build and Nuclear Power plants even though we have safely operated them for some time now…
They don’t want us to build any more Coal Power plants even though most of our power already comes from coal…
They probably don’t want us to build any oil power plants…
They don’t want us to build Hydor electric power…
What is it then?
Cover the entire country in Wind Mills and Solar Panels?
So, we should shut there power off then, since they don’t like it so much!
Phantom,
I posted some links with reasons why new coal plants are a bad idea.http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/well-sebelius-i.html#comment-81166519
Guess I fail to see what’s in it for Kansas, if nearly all the expanded capacit is going to be shipped out to other states. If they need the power let them deal with the environmental consequences.
The abortion industry has acknowledged for many years that abortion kills a living human being, merely maintaining that the baby is legally not a person protected by the 5th and 14th Amendments to the Constitution, and therefore instead a living human piece of property – a slave that can be disposed of when convenient. Therefore, abortionist quacks get away with their killings, and make a lot of money at it.At present, Colorado pro-lifers intend to amend their state Constitution to declare unborn babies to be persons.See U.S. Constitution pagehttp://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
Phantom, we will allow them to be built here, because we have some REALLY dumb people running things in Topeka!!
And I am not so sure about those who actually are salivating over a coal plant!! We already know the effects of Pollution from coal fired plants… We have seen what such things can do to cities… They will do the same thing to the rural areas, plus just dump their soot, and other crap into the atmosphere, and the air we breathe!!
Wind power is clean, it’s cheap, and it gets us on the grid a whole lot faster than building coal and nuke plants…
Has anybody even bothered to ask what on earth we are going to do with the millions of tons of SLAG left over after the coal is all burned?? I havent seen anything about that coal waste issue on here yet..