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Open thread 8/29
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Aug. 29, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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230 Comments
Bush is shouting that if we don’t invade Iran we may be facing a nuclear holocaust. Anyone hear this line before? Republicans, can you remember more than Gonzo on this one? Republicans will scare people with any lie they can muster, let the propaganda begin and the media, like the Wichita Eagle, will report every lie without question.
Bush is drinking the paranoid kool aid again, and asking everybody to join him for a cocktail… I hope nobody joins him this time…
Bush to ask for a cool 50 bil supplemental for Iraq on top of the 147 bil. in the budget for afghan. & Iraq, this yr.Whoever said freedom isn’t free, sure got that right! We’ll be wearing the yoke of debt for generations, and it’s not even our freedom we’re trying to buy and die for!
If anyone is not thinking that Bush is thinking Nuclear for Iran, keep this in mind. The last I read we have between 400 thousand and 500 thousand personnel in the military. Of which about 160 thousand are currently in Iraq and there is a real danger of overloading the military. Whom does he think will fight Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt and every other country that will join with Iran if they are attacked? The only option is Nuclear! I have not seen it said in quite awhile but…. “Can we impeach the fooker now?”.
This will happen if we keep attacking countries that DO NOT attack us!
Incomes Rise??? Recent reports that poverty fell and incomes increased come under scrutiny…
“The Census Bureau reported that median household income rose 0.7 percent last year . . . The median household income last year was still about $1,000 less than in 2000, before the onset of the last recession. In 2006, 36.5 million Americans were living in poverty — 5 million more than six years before . . .
But over a longer period, the trend becomes crystal clear: the only group for which earnings in 2006 exceeded those of 2000 were the households in the top five percent of the earnings distribution. For everybody else, they were lower.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/29/opinion/29wed1.html
George and Laura Bush are in New Orleans today to declare “Mission Accomplished” once again.
To be a Republican these days is to share in hypocrisy no longer second to ‘Nero fiddling while Rome burned’.
Republicans have absolutely NO credibility.
Dog, I’ve said all along it’s way too dangerous to leave him in office. For the very reason that he seems to want to start world war 3. Do you ever wonder if it’s his belief in end times prophesy (the one who brings peace will be the antichrist) that motivates him to perpetual war?
Brownback has got to be one of the dumbest folks to ever be elected to the U. S. Senate from Kansas:
“I wish Republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback would enlighten us: How will allowing same-sex marriages lead to more babies being out of wedlock? (”East High students quiz Brownback,” Aug. 25 Local & State).”
Come on Sam, ol’ buddy, tell us how in the world “SAME SEX” marriage would lead to more babies being born out of wedlock???
I thought same sex couples could not have children??
PMom, I think you might have something there… most interesting idea, actually…
Quote from Eagle:
“”Thanks for asking, I guess,” Brownback said before saying that he believes same-sex marriage erodes a fundamental institution and could lead to fewer marriages and more babies born out of wedlock.”
Chas’s Question:Come on Sam, ol’ buddy, tell us how in the world “SAME SEX” marriage would lead to more babies being born out of wedlock???
Again from the Wichita Eagle quote:
“same-sex marriage erodes a fundamental institution…”
Chas’s response:
“I thought same sex couples could not have children??”
There you have it. Except for Chas’s other response.
I lifted my quote from the Eagle… There is nothing to read wrong… It is right there in print.
Posted by: Chas. | August 29, 2007 at 08:02 AM
heh, heh, the ultimate in denial. :)
No denials here… just walkin on by!!
Here you go Chas, a cartoon for you just for today’s event. Pincushion humor if you will. :)
http://republikan.typepad.com/republikansan/2007/08/we-blogs-dumbes.html
that schofield popup WITH SOUND is totally annoying and guarantees that I will NEVER, EVER shop there.
I try to view the news at work, but now I can’t because of that annoying, intrusive and revolting TALKING POPUP.
You can close it. If you look on the lower right, there is an “X” to close it.
I do that immediately as soon as the page opens. :)
Still walkin…
A question for Mr. Vaughn Tolle,
Person A makes a false accusation about person B. At what point is the false accusation slander and/or libel ? On which person is the burden of proof?
“Why We Need a Draft; A Marine’s Lament” . Written by a Marine Corporal (now inactive), it presents a thoughtful and interesting perspective from someone who was “on the ground” in Fallujah. Worth the read, whether one agrees with his thesis or not.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20478293/site/newsweek/
writerdog,
We have just over a million people in the various armed forces.
If you include the reserves I believe we are around 2 million.
Your fears that we would have to go nuclear are a bit off.
Sol, a defamation “expert” I’m not. The way defamation is treated varies, state by state, so the following is very, very general, not intended as specific legal advice.
First, the alleged false accusation must be “published” to a third person.
Second, the alleged false accusation must be believed by those to whom it is published.
Third, the “rules” change if the person allegedly defamed is a “public figure”.
Burden of proof: upon the Plaintiff (the allegedly defamed person).
Truth is a defense.
Hope this is of some assistance.
Oops, Sol, forgot at least one other element. The statement made must be “unprivileged”, that is, there are certain limited privileges which apply in various situations.
Anyone who feels s/he has been defamed should seek the advice of an attorney.
Vaughn
Does the anonymity of the web blog provide any defense?
People insult and slander on the blog with predictable regularity. But supposedly no one knows who any one else is unless they provide identifying information.
Wonder what Moqtada Sadr has up his sleeve with the “six month” cessation of activities by his militia being ordered?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6968720.stm
ken, the anonymity of the internet/blogging does present a conundrum to the entire legal area. It’s doggone hard to sue for defamation if one doesn’t know the identity of the potential defendant. The law is beginning to struggle with this, so a resolution is some time off.
Given the generally understood “rules” of the blogging environment, the issue of belief arises. How would one prove the alleged defamatory statements were believed by anyone, if one does not know who might be reading? There’s a lot here, and the legal system is just beginning to grapple with it.
I think Sadr is re-organizing, wants to have all his ducks in a row when we eventually leave. I look for the Iraqi pres. to closely align with him at that time.Iran has recently stated, they are ready to fill any power vacuum, ostensibly along with the Sauds.
Vaughn,
Much appreciated.
Vaughn
Good article by the Marine on the draft …..
As of Dec. 2004, there are approx. 1.5 million military in service.
http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/troopsforiraq.html
Vaughn,Thanks for the draft article link.I previously had been against a draft, but have changed my mind. Cpl Finelli made some very good points and I cannot think of any good reason there should not be a draft immediately implemented.
Good article Vaughn.
I think he had a point. One I have been making every time someone here tries to make this a Republican thing.
The wealthy and powerful do not serve in the military.
It has little to do with what political party you belong to, rather your wealth.
I love my country, but if I had 100 million dollars sitting in my bank I probably wouldn’t continue to serve in the Marines.
However, I probably wouldn’t be a janitor either.
While I agree it is tragic on many levels, what do you expect from freedom?
Are we going to force people to serve when we have enough volunteers to do the job?
What next? Why not force people to be janitors and work construction too? Or how about all those jobs Americans don’t want and the illegal immigrants do. Are we going to start forcing people to do them as well?
That is no longer freedom, more like communism.
I think the draft has it’s place and that is when we desperately need it as a last resort.
WWII was an epic one. Since then there has not been a war of that scale to require or demand that we have a draft ( Korean War… don’t recall).
Simply having a draft to force everyone to serve is not the freedom which we claim to promote here.
My two cents…
How about
“the governing class in Washington are a bunch of buffoons who have total disregard for the principles of the party, the law of the land and the future of the country.”
for a reason not to bring back the draft?
You want your daughter or your neighbor’s daughter forced to fight in Iran or Iraq or God knows where for an insane President?
I do not recall anything in the Constitution of the United States of America that says people should not be forced to serve their government.
Nathan, there was a draft during the Korean War, but as I recall, it was no more than a continuation of the system in place following WWII. Of course, there was a draft until 1973, furnishing bodies for the Viet Nam war.
I am one who believes that everyone has an obligation to serve the country. Four years, right out of high school, condition precedent to admission to college, etc. By serve the country, I’m not limiting to military service. However, I know politically this one doesn’t fly. Source of inspiration; President Eisenhower’s thoughts (IIRC, he had a two year time frame in mind).
Vaughn,
What is the motivation though?
If people simply want to force everyone to serve in some capacity so that the wealthy have to, then you will simply get what we see happening now…
deferments, coushy jobs, etc…
If that is the main motivation I think people are wrong.
Perhaps we can man government at all levels with those “drafted” to serve their country. Would seem to remove the money, fame and influence we all agree tends to corrupt the process. It would certainly take several generations for the plan to become acceptable to most but may be what our country needs to ensure we end the madness we currently have.
Getting past those who would “buy” their way out of the risky or difficult assignments would help make it successful. I don’t have any ideas on how that would be done.
Nathan: no deferments.
BTW, I’m not one to criticize anyone during the Viet Nam era for taking advantage of every lawful deferment, ability to serve in the Reserves, whatever, to delay or avoid military service. There were few I knew in my college days at KU who didn’t; those with the right connections did well; others of us (me included) understood that when the 2S was over, there would be the draft with which to contend. The lotteries took care of many anxieties in those days, or let those of us know our number was low, what likely was in our futures.
The post-WWII draft was not “fair and equitable”. I was fortunate to be awarded appropriate scholarships so I could go straight to college after high school. Had that not happened, I’d enlisted (probably in the Air Force) and then gone to school on the GI Bill, as there was no other way that was going to happen in my family’s circumstances.
And, no, I’m not pushing for the four year mandatory national service just because I had to enter the military. It’s just my gut feeling that we all owe some obligation to the country, be it militarily or otherwise.
Who foots the bill to have 10-20 million young added to the military or other government service, do you give everyone the GI bill, VA health care, unvivesal health care by proxy? Do you cant have a universal draft, you cant draft the mentally ill, handicapped, do you want politcal radicals, skinheads, anarchists? How about women to make it fair you have too. But do you draft single moms, both parents? who takes care of the Kids the State? etc.
I also think compulsory Governmental service should be required. I think no more than 2 years, though.No deferments, no buy-outs, etc.There could be service in military, police, fire, park service, etc.
Many pros to this:Build sense of nationalism and responsibility in youthsCause all people to ‘give something back’ to their countryDecrease obesity since many of the service roles will have an element of physical activityBasic military and self defense training as part of training for service would lower crime rates
Tom Paine, I reiterate this wouldn’t be a draft in the sense of a military draft. Yes, there would be women subject thereto the same as men. Again, it would be at age 18 (if graduated from high school) or upon graduation (but no later than age 19) if later.
There are many societal problems which argue against it; I know that. As to the handicapped; to sound just a bit non-caring, if the handicapped folks are physically handicapped, then if, for example, they can operate a computer by eye blinks, they can do data entry. If there is a “mental” handicap, the same could do the sort of tasks that such folks do in “sheltered workshops” for example.
No “GI Bill” for all. VA care only for the ones who choose to serve in the military (on active duty). No eligibility for service in the military reserves, National Guard, unless the four year national service obligation is completed, preferably in the military. No admission to a service academy unless the four years is completed totally in the military. These are some of my opinions and thoughts, as imperfect and incomplete as the same may be.
With all this talk about mandatory service to our country, one thought occurred to me. In Washington, DC it is quite common for the politicians’ wives, children, in-laws and whoever else wants a cushy job gets one at the taxpayers’ expense.
If we suddenly start making government service mandatory – you’re going to see a revolt in Washington, DC that will rival what we are seeing in Iraq today.
You seriously do not think today’s politicians are in their jobs just for the money or the satisfaction of serving their country, do you? It is all about power and playing the cards right to garner more power. The money is not in the Congress or White House, it is the perks outside of the jobs.
“Who foots the bill to have 10-20 million young added to the military or other government service, do you give everyone the GI bill, VA health care, unvivesal health care by proxy?”
The same people people pay for it that are paying for everything else in the government.
“Do you cant have a universal draft, you cant draft the mentally ill, handicapped, do you want politcal radicals, skinheads, anarchists? How about women to make it fair you have too. But do you draft single moms, both parents? who takes care of the Kids the State? etc.”Everyone able to serve should be required to. Women, radicals, anarchists, gays, transsexuals, Mormons, Yale-ies, Righties, Lefties, etc.If someone is too handicapped to serve they would be exempt. However strict penalties for falsifying that. There would be levels of service that some handicapped people could do. Not everything would require Army basic training.
I would think some sort of deferred service or penalty (higher tax?) would be assessed for those with children that would be unable to serve. It would not be good to give them a free pass and encourage a lot of teen pregnancies.
“Who foots the bill to have 10-20 million young added to the military or other government service…”————————-
Not “added to,” but replaced with.
Everyone can do something! It is our country and we should serve.
I don’t think universal health care is a bad idea. Why would we not want to ensure all Americans have access to health care?
We work today and deal with child-care issues, etc.
We all accept the responsibility of service to our country. It doesn’t make any of us rich. We take the money and power out of the equation.
forced government service sounds awful lot like the shit Hitler and Stalin did to their people. I again I ask the question how do you pay for it? Honestly their are a lot of people i wouldn’t want the military, people with chronic health problems, antisocial types, I dont think Mennonites and Amish would fit in the military, saluting the flag being a form of Idolatry would be problematic to military service. the Civil War era consitual admenmants make forced government service probelmatic. In the End forcing people into goverment service builds resentmant, if you want to serve nobody ia gonna stop you.
brian, good thoughts. I’d not exempt single parents. Rather, s/he would have to do what single parents who volunteer for service do in today’s world, that is, give guardianship of the offspring to other family members or others for the duration, with a mandatory support allotment from the monthly pay to help defray the costs. I would think this might act as a disincentive to have children.
Again, Tom Paine, not talking about mandatory military service for all.
The only problem I have with this is your individual freedoms.
What if you don’t want to serve?
Will you face jail time, forced labor, fines?
It seems like you would be subject to absolute and total government control.
After serving in the Marine Corps, I can tell you that your entire life is controlled. It is hard for me to explain, but those of you who have served know what I am talking about.
Yes, this government service would involve many programs…
But how much control would the government have over you?
If this turns out to be some cushy federal job like many have now, then it defeats the purpose you have for implementing it.
I just don’t like the idea of the government having control over everyone’s lives like that.
It is not the freedom our founding fathers envisioned nor what I believe our country stands for.
T Paine, Do you think the Mennonites and Amish would mind if they instead worked with the Corps of Engineers cleaning up silt in a river? Or something like that
“What if you don’t want to serve?
Will you face jail time, forced labor, fines?”
During the Viet Nam era, that was exactly what you got if you were convicted of evading the draft.
With an emphasis on jail time.
And lots of it.
“It is not the freedom our founding fathers envisioned nor what I believe our country stands for.
Posted by: Nathan | August 29, 2007 at 01:54 PM ”
I think the Founding Fathers would have thought this would be a great idea, given the circumstances of today.
BTW, many people think America stands for hard work, compassion, leadership, givng back to your community, etc
Nathan, all I can say in response is that what you describe is how many who found themselves in the military felt, when they were drafted. I daresay the majority, if not all, jobs being held by 18-22 year olds under a universal service routine would not be “cushy”, but again, that’s my opinion.
I am surprised…
Some of you seem to be vehemently anti-government when it comes to your privacy rights with Bush fighting the war on terror.
Yet you are arguing for forced service to the government being mandatory for all?
That just doesn’t seem right.
“With an emphasis on jail time.
And lots of it.
Posted by: WSClark | August 29, 2007 at 01:57 PM”
The best thing about that would be if they had to work on a chain-gang in prison.
Brian,
“BTW, many people think America stands for hard work, compassion, leadership, givng back to your community, etc”
Voluntarily, not forced.
There is a difference.
When the slave is forced to build a bridge it is called slavery and wrong.
When a group of peace corps voluteers build one it is giving back to the community and helping out.
Big difference.
“That just doesn’t seem right.
Posted by: Nathan | August 29, 2007 at 02:00 PM ”
It is kind of confusing.Kind of like saying you are not anti-gay then being against equal rights for gay marriage.
Vaughn,
That is exactly why the draft is used as a last resort.
There would be no slavery.Compliance with the law is always voluntary.
Corps is still the Military and they dont need the help of the Amish. Are you really going to force people to go against their religious beifs are you gonna work the Amish farms while the men are gone? And Nathans right do you want the government to control every facet of everyone’s life if you do that pretty close to toltarisam the hilter stalin vartiey
Brian,
I am trying to discuss this topic nicely.
Why try to side track it?
My comments were relevant to this discussion.
So the Admin. listens to commanders on the ground? Apparently not.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070829/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/invisible_weapon_3;_ylt=AkLHiixPqzUgqOjyt1rNVyJlM3wV
We think our country is OF the people BY the people and FOR the people. Giving two years of service isn’t taking away any of our rights. It might ensure we keep them.
I don’t think any one person (especially one who has proven to me to be untrustworthy) should have the kind of power bush wants and has stolen in some cases. He has trampled on our Constitution.
I don’t understand how advocating that Joe Everybody be required to work for the governemnt in some capacity for two years can be equated to advocating that the government “control every facet of everyone’s life”
Linda,
Here is the problem with your statement:
“Giving two years of service isn’t taking away any of our rights.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GIVING <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
It is no longer GIVING your service to the country if you are forced to do so.
Nathan is coming at this discussion from his experience in the USMC. I would suggest that such is appropriate in a military setting (total control), but my grand vision for the non-military components of the national service requirement would be more along the lines of the “control” faced by, e.g., AmeriCorps volunteers, Peace Corps volunteers, and the like.
Brian,
I think you would understand a bit more if you had served in the military.
Lets start looking at all the rules and regulations associated with serving your country for those 2 years and you would see the government controlling your life.
Yes. It does seem that would be a problem with some. I sure don’t have the answers! Sometimes I don’t even have the questions. I think it would take time (maybe a long time) to make this cultural change. But I think it would be worth it.
“There is a difference.”
So, Nathan, do you think that the draft in the Sixties and Seventies was wrong?
Should it have been illegal?
Interesting, many of my friends and I also thought that the draft was illegal at that time.
“My comments were relevant to this discussion.
Posted by: Nathan | August 29, 2007 at 02:04 PM ”
My comment was an attempt to draw an analogy using something you would be familiar with. The topic is not relevant to this discussion.
WS Clark,
I have already said the draft is a measure of last resort.
I don’t think it is illegal.
I don’t believe the constitution is a suicide pact. If/When a situation presents it’s self where we need people to serve then that is when a draft should be used.
“is a measure of last resort.”
So what defines a last resort?
The military has already said that they are stretched to the limit NOW.
Do we need a draft now.
By the way, that statement “The military has already said that they are stretched to the limit NOW.” is what the military has said, not my opinion.
“I think you would understand a bit more if you had served in the military.”Why do you think I have not. I am coming from the same lines as VT that service would not necessarily by Military. There are other ways to serve that may be preferable and more suitable to some people.
See “Posted by: Vaughn Tolle | August 29, 2007 at 02:08 PM “
I have the same “grand vision” you do, Vaughn. I guess I want such a change to our culture that it’s what happens when you get out of high school — you go do your duty to your country. And, most accept that responsibility willingly. Guess I’m a dreamer.
I sure would like to take the power and money and influence out of politics at every level.
And, I would like to put work ethic and responsibility in everyone’s life.
Shoot, we can’t even get people to vote. I AM A DREAMER!
Nathan, I agree that the draft is a “last resort”. I am one who believes the discussions by the military folks, who know their manpower problems much better than I, that the military is stretched to the limit. I further am of the opinion that the time is rapidly approaching when the bonuses being offered now will not be sufficient to meet the needs.
I know you have posted in the past your belief that a draft will not be needed. For sake of argument, should the needs of the military become such that a draft does become needed, it is my opinion (formed, by the way some 30+ years ago while on active duty in the USAF) that a two year term of service is not sufficient, given the need for appropriate training, etc., on the newer, more complex weapon systems, or maintenance of ever more complex aircraft, etc., etc. Your thoughts?
And, yes, I’m doing a bit of a very rough cost-benefit analysis in my thought that 2 years is insufficient.
Compulsory, voluntary service.Everyone can choose what they do, but they would have to do something.
No forced service…ever.Our military deserves to be utilized only when absolutely necessary…and in this case it is not necessary.
I agree with Nathan 100% on this.
Unless, are the libs arguing for the draft in order to force the war to end? Because if you thought the war was unpopular now…just force people to fight it that don’t want to.
brian, that’s what I’ve been trying to articulate.
P_Mom, my thoughts are not about compulsory MILITARY service; far from it. Just compulsory service, in an area (including the military) that the person chooses to fulfill the obligation.
Linda Forced government service sounds way too communist to me. But how can you say being forced to give up two years of drafted time won’t hurt you when it very well could end your life?
So my 12 years in EMS would count?
That’s still a fairly slippery slope there. We’re Americans…we’re not supposed to be forced into doing anything we don’t want to do.
(Chuckling) Yes, P_Mom, that would count, if that was one of the programs.
“Unless, are the libs arguing for the draft in order to force the war to end?”
I am not debating for a draft, P Mom, and I completely and absolutely agree that the US Military should only be used for the direct defense of our country.
My comments were related to Nathan’s view that there should not be mandatory service.
If that had been the case, the Viet Nam War would have been over in 1966.
I know PMom. I was dreaming of a country where we all did our part and we all could count on our government. Where we felt proud enough to do our duty willingly and felt secure that we wouldn’t face catastrophe alone. IT WAS JUST A DREAM; I’m awake now.
Compulsory, voluntary service.Everyone can choose what they do, but they would have to do something.
Posted by: brian | August 29, 2007 at 02:19 PM
I would choose to be a Legislator with guarenteed income for life after 1 day of service.
I detect a generational split in this discussion. Making a generalization, of course, but those who seem to see where it is I’m coming from are a bit older.
If Americans were forced to serve in the military, we probably would not start unnecessary wars — like Iraq. Or Iran?
I’m glad that you people don’t run this country. I was perfectly happy to go to college out of high school. I give back to the community in my own ways- youth organizations and what not. I don’t need the government telling me how to serve my community or how to spend my life out of high school.
HEY troll Kansas,
Find any respected physicists who support Gerlich’s paper???
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/why-do-people-s.html#comment-80938329
‘Arctic passage opensShip could voyage ‘Tokyo to Boston’ ‘http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/story.html?id=a0b183a6-5c91-42df-9757-a7614c49058e“BIGGER MELT NEXT YEAR
And what particularly concerns scientists is that the thawing of Arctic ice typically continues until mid-September.
That virtually ensures that next summer’s melt season will begin with a much-reduced base of what used to be called “permanent” ice.
The ice “is going to remember that next year,” said Serreze. “Everything seems to be ahead of schedule and the models are all too slow. We’re on the fast track.”
The accelerated annual loss of Arctic ice prompted Serreze to predict that the entire polar region, including the North Pole, could witness a total summer melt by 2030.”
HT to http://www.desmogblog.com/arctic-passage-step-right-up-sail-on-through
More on Clinton Fund Raising.
Democratic fundraiser is a fugitive in plain sighttemplate_bastemplate_basCalifornia authorities have sought businessman Norman Hsu for 15 years. Since 2004, he has carved out a place of honor raising cash for such candidates as Hillary Rodham Clinton.http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-hsu29aug29,0,2313285.story?coll=la-home-center
This is pure money laundering (and bypassing of campaign finance laws) cleaning drug/crime money, by sending money thru these poor people (who get a cut I’m sure) and funneling it to Clinton.
Nice scam. Multiple laws broke here.
No one cares, it’s a Lib.
I honestly think that some of you all are missing what Vaughn is saying… MILITARY service would only be ONE among MANY different avenues that people could take.
I have sat in on discussions of this sort before… I have even heard it said a few times that there would not be a lot of problem with people attending College/University classes, so long as they were involved in their 2-3-4 years of Government service at the same time…
And again, I see clearly that this is not mandatory MILITARY service by any means… Just government service. I would assume that some could even serve in government office facilities, as clerks, and secretary’s and librarians, and medical fields, and even education…
I also wonder if just maybe such a program might even curtail gang involvement?? Get kids off the street who now just hang out, and get themselves and others in trouble, like the shooting last Saturday on the south side??
Even when my Draft lottery number was 20, I was saying that maybe we should have some kind of mandatory service for ALL… I got lucky… my number wasnt called…
I was from a draft board area with LOTS of eligible people… Others in smaller towns, and rural areas werent so lucky…
By the way, Vaughn, I will be 57 in not too many more months…
I am definitely from a younger generation, but I think good logic surpasses age :)
Did you SEE the Pew house?!?
See the house at this link:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118826947048110677.html?mod=hps_us_whats_news
It’s a shack! If these people had $200,000 extra laying around, why would they not use it to move to a better home?
Instead, they ‘donate’ it to Hillary! Right, it was the Pew money afterall.
Hey Cosmos, did you see that there is an unexpected Ozone Hole over the Antarctic Continent?? The story I heard says they arent sure just what to make of it yet… I hope they figure it out soon!!
Chas
I was called up in 1973. The lottery ceiling was 95, I was 93.
How is it you weren’t called with a low number of 20?
I’m not quite as old as dirt, but old never the less. Imagine expecting people to share in the responsibility of what is theirs?
I had a college, and Pre-Theological deferment… It was called a 2D, later called 4D..
Yeah, Chas., that’s a good question. My number was 88 in the “first” lottery, and given you and I are chronological contemporaries, how they missed you is beyond me.
Posts crossed, Chas. I understand now.
Another Lib draft dodger.
??? — The numbers were selected sort of like the Lottery now… The individual numbers were given out by date of birth, IIRC….
For some reason, # 20, never came up in the number draw for my draft board… My draft board was one of several here in Wichita.
Chas., it sounds like your number didn’t need to be reached for the draft board having supervision over you to fill its yearly quota. Interesting, because the rule, IIRC, back then was if one’s number was passed in an earlier year and one had a deferment at that time, the instant the deferment was up, one became “number 1″, regardless.
Vaughn,
2 years is too little IMHO when it comes to the military.
The Marined Corps trains Recruits for 13 weeks. Add another 2 weeks for basic combat training. Ad another 13 weeks to 13 months for school depending on technicality of MOS.
Then it ususally takes several months of on the job training to become acclimated to the job.
The military is streched thin in regards to being able to provide a 1:3 deployment ratio.
We are close to a 1:2 ratio now.
We have ample reserves and active forces to fight this war plus if we don’t rely on having to rotate out forces.
So, I don’t see a draft as needed at this point.
Vaughn,What does IIRC mean?
Nathan, thanks for the response.
I don’t see the rotation of troops going away. This is an opinion based upon what I perceive the political realities as being at this time.
IIRC = If I Recall Correctly
I understand that many of you are not arguing for military service to be the only thing people would do in this mandatory government service.
What I am saying is that regardless of it being the military or not, they are going to control your life.
Would you live in military housing? Relocate? Live in barracks?
If you do, then there are going to be rules on everything about how you live in those barracks.
Time off? Would you be forced to work until the job is done? Hourly wages or salary?
I can’t even begin to think of how many ways the government would control your life in this mandatory service.
It is most definately not what our founding fathers would ever have endorsed or envisioned.
I see that the Wichita Eagle Blog has provided it’s daily supplement of victimhood, conspiracy theory, Gonzo, Bush and generally any thing not Liberal in the form easy to swallow journalistic pills.
Perhaps tomorrow topics can be:
Republican associated with chicken rape
or
Bush removes funds from Orphan and Widows homes and transfers funds to more coal-burning plants.
or perhaps
Christian Right seen cavorting with Satan carrying hot wax candles and battery powered vibrators
the instant the deferment was up, one became “number 1″, regardless.
Posted by: Vaughn Tolle | August 29, 2007 at 03:12 PM=======================
That’s true, VT, but I didnt finish Seminary until June, 1976. By then it was all over. The draft had ended.
Wichi…
If I Recall Correctly (or something similar)
Someone mentioned Amish and Mennonite. During the Vietnam draft years, those who claimed religious deferment met their obligation in other ways. For instance, in 1968, while on a (working) trip to Mexico with a group of church kids from around the state, we met two young Mennonite men who were working in Mexico as part of their service obligation. I don’t recall what govt. group they worked for, but they drove around the area and helped with agricultural needs.
Isn’t Selective Service still going on? Don’t 18-year-olds still have to sign up? The only difference is that they aren’t being called up, right?
IMHO, mandatory service is an excellent idea. After 2-4 years of service, many of the younger set might realize that there’s something more to life than partying. Learned responsibility?
Doesn’t Great Britain have a mandatory 2-year service for all males? Israel, too, but both men and women?
For some reason, # 20, never came up in the number draw for my draft board… My draft board was one of several here in Wichita.
Posted by: Chas. | August 29, 2007 at 03:09 PM
There were two draft boards in Wichita at that time. They were in the same office downtown Wichita on Broadway.
I believe they were DB #’s 58 and 59. One served Wichitans who lived south of Douglas and the other those who lived north of Douglas.
Beats me how you were never called with a low number like 20.
Both draft boards called up to 95 in 1973.
“Time off? Would you be forced to work until the job is done? Hourly wages or salary?
Posted by: Nathan | August 29, 2007 at 03:33 PM ”
It sounds like having a job to me.Live at home, set alarm clock, go to work, put in agreed upon hours, go home. Repeat cycle.
AG Paul Morrison is not happy that the psychiatric expert, Dr. Paul McHugh, a witness he thought he had stifled and run out of Kansas, will testify before next week’s legislative committee on George Tiller’s abortion mill crimes.The noose of justice tightens.- – -
About 4% of non-marital births are placed for adoption, whereas, in 1969, prior to legalized abortion, 25% of illegitimate babies were adopted. In the U.S. there are about 50,000 non-related adoptions a year compared to nearly 1,500,000 babies aborted. There are about two million couples waiting to adopt. Furthermore, many of these couples would want two or three children, if available. Many will take hard-to-place children with special needs. There are waiting lists for babies with Down Syndrome, Spina Bifida, and AIDS.There are 450,000 children in foster care, of whom 42% (or 189,000) are black, because adoptions are often denied because of race. (The total number of children in foster care varied up and down from 556,000 to 581,000 between 1999 and 2001, with 127,000 to 134,000 actually available for adoption. 60% of children exiting foster care in 1999 were reunited with their birth parents. Of those children who were adopted, 64% were adopted by a foster parent and 16% by a relative.)Blame for the bottlenecks in adoptions has been cast at adoption agencies and the bureaucratic misallocation of taxpayer money in them.Blame for the lack of crisis pregnancy referrals for adoption agency assistance rests squarely on abortion mills. Planned Parenthood, America’s busiest abortionist, reported ZERO referrals for adoption last year. The year before that, 1 adoption referral for every 180 killings.See facts pagehttp://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_34.aspand pagehttp://www.adoptioninstitute.org/FactOverview/foster.html- – -
“Isn’t Selective Service still going on? Don’t 18-year-olds still have to sign up? The only difference is that they aren’t being called up, right?’
Correct
AG Paul Morrison is not happy that the psychiatric expert, Dr. Paul McHugh, a witness he thought he had stifled and run out of Kansas, will testify before next week’s legislative committee on George Tiller’s abortion mill crimes.The noose of justice tightens.- – -
About 4% of non-marital births are placed for adoption, whereas, in 1969, prior to legalized abortion, 25% of illegitimate babies were adopted. In the U.S. there are about 50,000 non-related adoptions a year compared to nearly 1,500,000 babies aborted. There are about two million couples waiting to adopt. Furthermore, many of these couples would want two or three children, if available. Many will take hard-to-place children with special needs. There are waiting lists for babies with Down Syndrome, Spina Bifida, and AIDS.There are 450,000 children in foster care, of whom 42% (or 189,000) are black, because adoptions are often denied because of race. (The total number of children in foster care varied up and down from 556,000 to 581,000 between 1999 and 2001, with 127,000 to 134,000 actually available for adoption. 60% of children exiting foster care in 1999 were reunited with their birth parents. Of those children who were adopted, 64% were adopted by a foster parent and 16% by a relative.)Blame for the bottlenecks in adoptions has been cast at adoption agencies and the bureaucratic misallocation of taxpayer money in them.Blame for the lack of crisis pregnancy referrals for adoption agency assistance rests squarely on abortion mills. Planned Parenthood, America’s busiest abortionist, reported ZERO referrals for adoption last year. The year before that, 1 adoption referral for every 180 killings.See facts pagehttp://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_34.aspand pagehttp://www.adoptioninstitute.org/FactOverview/foster.html- – -
I don’t think women have to register.
“There are about two million couples waiting to adopt. Furthermore, many of these couples would want two or three children, if available. Many will take hard-to-place children with special needs….There are 450,000 children in foster care, of whom 42% (or 189,000) are black, because adoptions are often denied because of race….Posted by: parkay | August 29, 2007 at 03:58 PM ”
So if you really cared about babies parkay, you should be protesting outside the state capitals of America for states to change their adoption rules to make it easier for people to adopt babies of a different race.
If you Really cared about Babies.
Rox,There’s more to life than partying?
Seriously though, I think it’s a good idea from the perspective of teaching responsibility, accountability, focus and respect for others. Many kids don’t get the proper guidance they should have at home. A lot think they are owed something. Might help our youth actually. I also understand Nathan’s points..he makes good ones. A program such as this would have to be well thought out. I think they could live at home, serve in whatever capacity is needed locally. They can pick up trash for all I care, god knows we have a huge littering problem. They could be tutors, advocates…the possibilities are endless!Maybe the program wouldn’t include military, but compulsory service of some sort.
Brian,
I am talking about 20 hour days and no weekends off.
You can quit a job, can you quit your mandatory government service?
And I am saying not everything would be like your military service. There is no need to make it like that (except for those that choose to do their service in the Military of course).
Fake butter, er, Newman…I can’t believe you still take the word of a pedophile supporter.
Sad really. These are your people.
25% of babies who were put up for adoption were adopted? Those are FANTASTIC numbers there ooze. All those numbers there are nothing without the perspective of ‘the others’.
And I still agree with Nathan. Mandatory service to the government…not optimal for any reason.
brian,It is not illegal to adopt a baby of another race, just discouraged, because of obvious prejudices, which can be overcome. Of particular note, one of the new assistant district attorneys in Sacramento County, CA was, 25 years ago, a 4-pound drug-addicted black baby adopted by a white woman, spotlighted this past Mother’s Day, willing to sacrifice her time, her money, and her peace of mind for the sake of that boy.
Again, Nathan, you’re imposing your military experience onto the hypothetical. For those not in the military, I’d think it would be more like the Peace Corps, e.g. No, just like the military, this would not be “quittable” as in a civilian job.
BTW, stateside, not in a combat theater, the military is (based upon my USAF experience in the mid-70s) not 20 hrs/day, 7 days/week. It was actually, for me, shorter than the number of hours and number of days per week than what I now do. There were exceptions, of course, “back in the day”, preparing for courts-martial, but generally there were few Saturdays that were duty days, and there were not otherwise days which extended beyond 1700 hrs, after beginning at 0800 hrs.
I am still amazed that many of you have complained about all the abuses of power from our government for the last 6 years are now so willing to subject themselves to mandatory service to it….
Wow.
Believe me, I understand the benifits you are all talking about.
I simply do not believe that FORCING people to serve the government is right.
Benevolence is something which comes from your heart. It isn’t something the government is supposed to force you to do.
“I simply do not believe that FORCING people to serve the government is right.”
I agree – forcing 18 and 19 year old men to serve in the military in Viet Nam in the Sixties and Seventies was ABSOLUTELY WRONG.
What if the draftees were matched up to their interests as much as possible? There are tons of job in the military alone that encompass many, many different areas.
???, my bad. I should have specified ‘males’.
“It is not illegal to adopt a baby of another race, just discouraged, because of obvious prejudices, which can be overcome. Of particular note, one of the new assistant district attorneys in Sacramento County, CA was, 25 years ago, a 4-pound drug-addicted black baby adopted by a white woman, spotlighted this past Mother’s Day, willing to sacrifice her time, her money, and her peace of mind for the sake of that boy.
Posted by: parkay | August 29, 2007 at 04:20 PM ”
So why isn’t your group that is supposed to be so concerned with Babies working to overcome those prejudices and trying to match some of the 189,000 black babies and 261,000 other babies up with the 2 million couples waiting to adopt?If you know these things, and you Really care about Babies, how can you let them suffer in foster care or some group home waiting to be adopted?
Parkay,
How many drug addicted, multi-racial babies have you adopted?
^5, brian.
Oh, I do know a pro-birth couple who adopted an Oriental baby…overseas, of course. They planned to have “her eyes fixed”.
What if the draftees were matched up to their interests as much as possible?
Hmmm, my daughter is taking a mandatory government imposed test this year (first time apparently) to test job aptitudes and to “guide” children to help them make good career choices.
I think its a crock of crap.
Do you think that the rich will fair better than say an inner city poor kid?
Labels have a way of sticking to you long even when they are wrong.
Both draft boards called up to 95 in 1973.
Posted by: ??? | August 29, 2007 at 03:57 PM========================
Theymay have, but they didnt call up any 4D deferments…
Parkay, where in the world did you ever get the idea that inter-racial adoptions are discouraged??
I have known many such adopted children over many years… There were VERY few problems… And besides, to discourage such a thing, might be considered somewhat racist…
brian and rox and chas,You can’t adopt a baby that has been mangled, dismembered, poisoned, or beheaded in an abortion mill – usually.One of George Tiller’s victims, however, was a baby girl he tried to inject with poison – a favored post-viable abortion method of his. The needle missed her heart and struck her in the head. She was delivered alive after induced labor, rescued from an emergency room parking lot and adopted, though disabled and blinded by the digoxin. She lived 5 years, eventually succumbing to the long-term effects of Tiller’s assault.I met the adoptive mother once.
Hey Vaughn,
Two years isn’t enough for anything other than cannon fodder. The job I did in the Navy 30 years ago required 3 years of training and a six year obligation of service to get the schooling. I’m not sure, but I think you have to obligate for eight years in the Navy now to get the training I reieved.
The technology that the grunts are exposed to now days is mind boggling. Two years isn’t enough in my opinion. After training, a three year tour of duty is about normal in the Navy. It takes about a year to become proficient in your job on most ships.
Hank
Hank, thanks for the information, It confirmed my thoughts on what you in particular likely had to commit to to get the training to do what you’ve posted that you did while in the USN. Sorry about the convoluted sentence there.
IIRC, the length of the draft was only two years… But maybe they didnt train them too good… Maybe yet another reason we lost so many??
The ERA people should scream bloody murder if women are Excluded from any military draft.
They wanted equal rights, now they got it baby.
Personally, having 2 daughters, I’m against it.
But the Government is there to make us all equal, as requested by the Socialists.
The only military restrictions I know for females Rox are what the military classify as Front Line Combat Specialties. Infantry, Tank or Armored vehicle driver, unsure about the Navy as they have Seals that are about the only direct combat troops on the ground.
The rest of the specialties are all available to females.
There were quite a few female aviators even when I was in 13 years ago.
They wanted equal rights, now they got it baby.
Except that the ERA was NEVER passed.
Chas., as Hank said: cannon fodder.
That’s why the basic enlistment “back in the day” for the Air Force was four years, as the tech training one received (depending upon AFSC [Air Force Skill Code]) was as short as 8 weeks to as long as a year, as I recall. There needed to be some return on that investment.
Parkay,You did not answer the questions:
‘So why isn’t your group that is supposed to be so concerned with Babies working to overcome those prejudices and trying to match some of the 189,000 black babies and 261,000 other babies up with the 2 million couples waiting to adopt?If you know these things, and you Really care about Babies, how can you let them suffer in foster care or some group home waiting to be adopted?
Posted by: brian | August 29, 2007 at 04:26 PM ‘
The Air Force never was part of the draft. If one was drafted, it was Army, Marines or Navy.
brian,
How can you let the adopted children suffer?
You are part of the population as well. Why pose such ignorant questions.
I dont remember ever hearing of anybody that was drafted into the Marines or Navy… I did hear of some who “enlisted” when they found out their number was coming up for draft… in either Air Force, Navy, or Marines…
Now, Kansas, I dont know if that was really necessary… Shoot, for all you know, Brian has already adopted one, or more…
Kansas,Would you restate my question as you understood it? I think there is some miscommunication.
Then Chas, you should call brian out on his statement to Parkay, which is not only racially loaded in its manner, but ignorantly posed and intellectually revolting.
Oh, and Parkay, somehow, I just simply dont believe your little tall tale about Tiller, and that baby you posted about above…
The Dr. would not be a free man, if he had actually done that…
I don’t understand how you can see it that way. Why do you think that?
Exactly; no one was ever “drafted” into the Navy or the Air Force. Many enlisted as an option to being drafted. There were, during the Viet Nam days, a limited number who ended up in the Marines as the result of the draft.
Better clarify; no one was “drafted” into the Navy or Air Force during the Viet Nam era.
I have to agree with Brian on that one Kansas… I think you misunderstood what he posted…
Chas, not that he would readily admit it thought…
Vaughn, Thats what my recollection was too… I was responding to what had been posted upthread >>>>
If one was drafted, it was Army, Marines or Navy.
Posted by: Kansas | August 29, 2007 at 05:30 PM
Welllllll he might??
True, Chas., people often do unexpected things. I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
Good :-)
Kansas, sorry I assumed you would not be willing to admit if you were wrong. I will try not to make assumptions about peoples dispositions in the future.
You mean by this statement brian?
“how can you let them suffer in foster care or some group home waiting to be adopted?”
If you don’t see anything wrong with that statement, then you have more problems than I can help you with.
An individual is not responsible for thousands of other people in their current state, especially if they are not part of that system.
It would be like if you choose to support an anti-game rooster fighting cause.
Then if I came up to you and said, why are you not supporting the anti-dog fighting group and letting thousands of them suffer and die.
This is the same logic you are using.
Ummm Kansas, Brian was referring to the GROUP Parkay is a part of… And it is perfectly logical to support an adoption program for children, whether it is in your own county, or the Darfur Region in Africa…
I dont see what your objection is… I really dont!! People adopt children from out of their area ALL the time!!
I dont even see how your dog or cock fighting scenarios fit in to the picture at all, actually…
“You need to stop making things up for political talking points.
That’s not only false, it’s an insult to every decent minded American.”
Posted by: the troll Kansashttp://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/how-low-can-the.html#comment-81042459
Kansas makes up false things about human-caused global warming.
That’s an insult to everyone on Earth… and FUTURE generations.
But, I dont have time to argue it now… Dinner time now…
Cosmos, what is your latest information on the Ozone Hole over the Antarctic??
Well Chas, you didn’t admit to your obvious error from early this morning on Brownback either.
So, there are no surprises there.
Yes I included the Navy in the conscription services, they obviously were not.
Although I do recall reading that the Marines didn’t have their own Commandant and fell under the Navy, not sure when they were split.
Perhaps Nathan or Hank know?
cosmos = one trick poney
Kansas, I said early today, I did not make an error on Brownback, and I also told you I was not going to argue the point… I am sorry that you were using a different quote from the Eagle, than I used…
That was the only quote from the Eagle Chas. The Eagle did not run two different stories on the subject.
Ummm I thought that the Marines were one of the OLDEST of the branches of service??? AT least they seem to think they are LOL
Kansas… I posted a QUOTATION from the front page of the Eagle… I took it right off of that page online! Dont tell me where I got my quote, please…
And besides, I STILL made no error concerning Brownback’s premise… So, I cant admit to an error that I didnt make!!
Kansas = multi-trick LIAR
HEY troll Kansas,
Find any respected physicists who support Gerlich’s paper???
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/why-do-people-s.html#comment-80938329
Well, gotta go fix dinner now… Later all!! maybe…
But the Government is there to make us all equal, as requested by the Socialists.
Posted by: Max | August 29, 2007 at 05:20 PM
Uhm . . . nobody wants what can’t be done, to MAKE us all equal.
However, it’s not socialist but American to treat everyone equally.
There is the link to the story Chas.
http://www.wichitaeagle.com/news/local/story/157486.html
It shows what I pointed out, you misread and misinterpreted the statement.
Chas, all they know is it appeared early.
‘U.N. says Antarctic ozone hole appears early in 2007′http://uk.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUKL2829160820070828“It is still too early to give a definitive statement about the development of this year’s ozone hole and the degree of ozone loss that will occur. This will, to a large extent, depend on the meteorological conditions,” the Geneva-based agency said.”
The Democrat leadership believes failure by our troops in Iraq — the central front in the War on Terror — is essential for them to win elections in 2008…
…and that any positive sign of progress in Iraq is simply a “problem” for them.
Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, driven by polls and politics, declared “This war is lost,” even before the President’s new strategy began. Reid also has bragged, “We’re going to pick up Senate seats as a result of this war.”
And Democrat House Majority Whip James Clyburn said that a positive report in September from General Petraeus and Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker would be “a real big problem for us (Democrats).” Meaning the Democrats’ desire for an arbitrary troop withdrawal — and their party’s 2008 electoral fortunes — would be in jeopardy if our troops succeed.
??? don’t be to concerned about these tests your daughter is taking. I took something called an appitude test back in the early 60’s. It was designed to give you an insight to your talents.
“Aptitudes are natural talents—special abilities for doing, or learning to do, certain kinds of things easily and quickly. They have little to do with knowledge or culture, or education, or even interests. They have to do with heredity. Musical talent and artistic talent are examples of such aptitudes.”
These test are intended to give insight to the career you will eventually choose.
Let me get this straight.
The government should require all 18-22 year olds to work for it. During this time all would be subject to whatever government indoctrination, you would be required to go wherever the government told you, and do the job that the government requires you. No matter if you are a concert pianist, sorry your practicing is not as important as dredging rivers.
People, this isn’t how the United States works. We are supposed to be free in our own pursuit of happiness, not what the government tells us we should be pursuing.
And remember what really caused the antiwar movement to take hold- the draft. Could you imagine the revolution that would begin if you tried to implement this sort of plan? It would be catastrophic.
It seems that more of this is fueled by “we where drafted when we were your age, so you should be too.”
Kansas, I questioned Brownback’s premise… I stand by what I said… I ALSO quoted from the Eagle… You saw my quote… But you had to go find your OWN… Now, I stand by what I said earlier, and I am not going to argue the point… If you disagree, fine… I would be surprised if you DID agree with me…
The trashing of America has reached new heights with the affirmation in all three branches of the United States government of everything that pulls down a nation and a denial of everything that makes a nation great.
The great Russian writer Alexander Solzhenitsyn once wrote this warning,”To destroy a people you must first sever their roots.”
Socialist Democrats and liberals throughout our government have made it clear that the foundations, the roots that have undergirded this nation are no longer valid. Character no longer matters, honesty is not a value worth protecting, and corruption is not only tolerated but embraced throughout our government.
Perhaps Bill Clinton said it best, “We are redefining in practical terms the immutable ideals that have guided us from the beginning.” – President Bill Clinton, Nov. 8, 1997
As the balance of power continues to swing towards a Godless agenda, Americans will be increasingly forced to adopt a new perspective of who we are: one based not on immutable ideals and values, truth, justice, personal freedom and the Constitution of the United States, rather one based on relative values, deceit, unequal justice, Marxism and a redefined globalist Constitution.
On one side, you have people who believe in living by a set of divinely inspired moral absolutes – or, at the very least, they believe that following such a moral code represents the best way to avoid chaos and instability.
On the other side, you have people who insist that morality is relative and simply a personal decision. Any attempt to enforce a set of standards is viewed as oppression. Many liberals believe that efforts to adhere to and enforce behavioral rights and wrongs is simply the powerful in society attempting to force their views and judgments on the “victims” of society, rather than what it is: an attempt to maintain the standards that have evolved and survived throughout human civilization and which produce a quality life.
The Battle for the Hearts and Minds of AmericaWhich will it be?AdulteryDrug AddictionCorruptionLies and DeceptionMarxismSocialismAnti-FamilyFreedom from ReligionHatredFidelity in MarriageClean LivingIntegrityHonestyFree MarketsPersonal FreedomPro-FamilyFreedom of ReligionLove
American politics is no longer about Democrats, Republicans, or Independents … It’s not a fight between the Liberal Left and the Christian Right … It is about what America is. It’s a war of competing ideas and worldviews. It’s about Right vs. Wrong. Truth vs. Untruth. It’s a conflict over beliefs and values, over the ideas that will rule society. It’s about the direction we want this country to go in the future. It’s about the world we leave for our children. It’s about what god we acknowledge or whether we acknowledge any god at all. It’s about the same struggle man has gone through since the beginning of time, the struggle between good and evil.
Like a voice crying from the wilderness, this web site is dedicated to exposing the schemes of the enemy to deceive even the elect and a call to action by those who fear God and who value truth, honesty, justice, and believe the American dream of our forefathers is worth saving.
Come on Sam, ol’ buddy, tell us how in the world “SAME SEX” marriage would lead to more babies being born out of wedlock???
“Brownback said before saying that he believes same-sex marriage erodes a fundamental institution and could lead to fewer marriages and more babies born out of wedlock.”
Chas Sam said same-sex marriage would erode the fundamental institution of marriage. Thus fewer people would marry, therefore more children would be born out of wedlock.
It would appear that you simply misread the summation since it wasn’t a quote.
Jerald you said it very well. When one looks at the civilizations down through the ages one thing stands out in start contrast to others. From the Roman Empire to much smaller civilizations it was the downfall of the family units and basic decency that marked the end of the civilization. Whether morals are based on Christianity or whatever when moral standards are lowered the fall comes swiftly. This has been shown over and over. Will we ever learn?
Just for the record:
In the Department of Defense there are three services:ArmyAir ForceNavy.
The Coast Guard was in the Department of Transportation; I believe it is now in Homeland Security.
Oh, the Marines, they are in the Navy. Which is the reason Marine Pilots fly off of Navy Ships.
I have to go hide now so Nathan will not stomp me in the ground. For some reason they have never admitted to being part of the Navy.
Ksgrm, If you want to know what I said about Brownback’s premise, then go read it… What is there that you dont get, that I posted a direct quote from the Eagle front page?? I have made that quite clear… So, before you trash me for what I didnt say, why not go read what I did say??? And I still stand by what I said —- Get it???
And I am not going to argue the point with YOU either!!
“I wish Republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback would enlighten us: How will allowing same-sex marriages lead to more babies being out of wedlock? (”East High students quiz Brownback,” Aug. 25 Local & State).”http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/gop-wants-anoth.html#comment-80970839
Kansas… I posted a QUOTATION from the front page of the Eagle… I took it right off of that page online! Dont tell me where I got my quote, please…
Posted by: Chas. | August 29, 2007 at 06:05 PM========================So, which is it Chas? You took your story off the Front Page or Local & State?
The only Wichita Eagle story on this subject:
http://www.wichitaeagle.com/news/local/story/157486.html
Ummm Hud?? You want to find a link for that??? They call themselves the United States Marine Corps. They would appear to be a separate branch. “Air, Land, and Sea” I dont think it would be a great idea to tell a group of Marines that they are really just part of the Navy… LOL… they might not take kindly to that… LOL
I am walkin on by Kansas… I had my quote posted way earlier today… I took it right off of the front page… If you dont like that, I’m sorry, but thats where I copied/pasted it from…
Now, I am NOT going to argue it with you… I disagreed with Brownback’s premise, and I am standing by that…. I think his premise is stupid, and ignorant, to say the least… I am NOT arguing that with you!!
There were a couple of others who also disagreed with Sam’s premise… Why dont you go argue it out with them… They said basically what I said…
There is no substitution for reading comprehension. :)
Ummm Hud?? You want to find a link for that???Posted by: Chas.
Tried to link my BJM (Blue Jacket Manual) but it was printed long before computers.
How’s this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Defense
“We have just over a million people in the various armed forces.If you include the reserves I believe we are around 2 million.Your fears that we would have to go nuclear are a bit off“.
Thank you Nathan, I thought that sounded really low. But I still want to make the point that to expend the ground conflict to yet another front would be foolish if not needed. Which is what would happen if we attack Iran, the reality is that even Great Briton would be slow to support us in yet another adventure. And at this point they are the only one that might even consider it, Ok from what I recently watched Poland might, they seem to still have a favorable opinion of us. But the rest of Europe would not and totally forget the Middle East and Asia. When we invaded Afghanistan even Libya, Egypt, Syria, and Saudi-Arabia supported the action. But the Iraq invasion changed all that, our friends question our motives and the Middle East suddenly saw that OBL was right in his formal declaration of war against the United States and Israel.
And make no mistake, even a air assault on Iran will bring on a new and intense ground action. Iranian troops will rush into Iraq and the rest of the Middle East will have no choice but join in. A Rand poll shows that the majority of the people in the Middle east now see the U.S. as a empire that desires to control their people and the oil of their lands. It will not matter what we say is the reasons, but what THEY say is the reasons! They will see it as once again we are attacking another Middle East country that has not attacked the United States at the present. The Pre-emptive strike doctrine has been the worst thought since Benedict Arnold decided to give the plans and force placement to the British.
OH and BTW, I am in total agreement with you about the draft!
The unfortunate situation for Iran is that Iran is more susceptible to Naval attack than Iraq was. They have a huge exposed coastal line in which they have sparse defense.
The U.S. also has allies on all sides of Iraq now which can be used for staging.
Iran better hope the U.S. never invades, it would be a total disaster for them.
Not that I’m advocating an attack on Iran, I am in fact dead against it.
The Iranians I have met, now U.S. citizens appear to be decent people with a love of life. I’m sure the majority of Iranians are decent people and would soon as not participate in war in which there would be much suffering.
Thanks Hud… I see the marines do have their own commandant…
Kansas — THIS is right off the Eagle front page >>>>
“I wish Republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback would enlighten us: How will allowing same-sex marriages lead to more babies being out of wedlock? (”East High students quiz Brownback,” Aug. 25 Local & State).”
Now, if that doesnt suit you, I am sorry…
chas,Regarding your disbelief about the botched abortion survivor that lived to be 5 years old:According to the Tiller Report, available for download athttp://www.operationrescue.org/?p=78under “The Five Year Abortion” on page 28, you will see in the report that in July, 1993 George Tiller injected the viable 7-pound 5-ounce baby girl of a 15-year-old mother at 36 weeks gestation with potassium chloride, a poison still being used today in late-term abortions, in the left side of her forehead above the eyebrow, and at the base of the skull, intending to induce labor after the baby was dead. The next day, when the baby was found still alive, the mother went to Wesley Medical Center instead, and the baby was delivered alive and left to die alone, because of the brain damage caused by Tiller’s injection. After 24 hours, a nurse finally took pity, and called a lawyer, who arranged for Baby Sarah to be adopted. Doctors said she wouldn’t live 8 weeks, but she lived 5 years, though she never saw anything and never spoke and never walked. Sometimes, she smiled.Sarah Elizabeth Brown lived from July 15, 1993 to September 28, 1998. The Browns had 7 other children, but Sarah was the baby of the whole family. They donated Sarah’s corneas after she died, so that 2 other children could see, as Sarah could not.Sarah’s adoptive mother continues to heal from her own past abortion at age 19.You can see pictures of Sarah, her parents, and her tombstone at pagehttp://www.dr-tiller.com/dreaded-complication.htmGeorge Tiller continued committing illegal post-viable abortions in the same manner, except preferring the digoxin injection in the baby’s heart prior to inducing labor, until charged with misdemeanor crimes of unethical financial ties to his second quack, Kristin Neuhaus, in 2007.See also essay pagehttp://www.abortionessay.com/files/Tiller.htmland abortion truth pagehttp://www.abortiontv.com/Methods/GeorgeTiller.htmand forum pagehttp://www.deathroesurvivor.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=1252&enterthread=y
Jeez, those are all totally UNBIASED links, Parkay.
By the way, if you go to World Net Daily, you can get pills that will cure your artery blockage without surgery for just $0.24 per day.
Easy!
No pesky scalpels and that messy surgery, just one, $0.24 pill per day!
World Net Daily – your home for quack medicine!
margarine man is obviously an anti-choice , christian taliban terrorist
Late post, but….
I dont remember ever hearing of anybody that was drafted into the Marines or NavyPosted by: Chas. | August 29, 2007 at 05:32 PM
Chas, I was drafted into the Marine Corps. It came as a real shock to me, too. I’d never heard of such a thing. I showed up at the AFEES building in Kansas City fully expecting to be drafted into the Army. They took the biggest 6 guys out of a room full of draftees into the hall and asked us if we REALLY wanted to be drafted into the Army. Of course the answer was NO. Next thing I knew, I was sworn into the Marine Corps and on a plane to California. But it was kind of cool only having to do 2 years active duty. Everybody else that I served with was stuck for 3-4 years.
So now you know of someone who was actually drafted into the Marines, lol!
There are about 5 different versions of “sarah’s story” out there. Interestingly they all sound similar, but the facts change slightly each time. Like Parkay here said he injected her heart…which would have stopped it. Then on the site is says she was injected into her head and amnio…and yet another twice into the brain.
And in 1993, what nurse or doctor would leave a dying child alone? Please.
And why did this story just suddenly appear in 2002?
I’m sorry Parkay…. Your links are extremely slanted, and begin with presuppositions… I simply do NOT believe what you have posted here… I am like the other poster… I have heard about 5 different versions of the story, in different cities, and I get it at least 2 times a week in email… which I send to SPAM… Sorry, but I think it is bogus!! And last I knew, Wesley is also an abortion hospital… I’m sorry for you Parkay, that you are so filled with vengeance, that you go to such lengths to try your propaganda…
What church you going to disrupt next time???
Baby Sarah is sort of like the old Proctor and Gamble satanic symbols emails…
It goes around all over the place about every 2 – 3 years… And then they go away for a while, after P & G files law suits to protect itself…
I just had Baby Sarah in my email box around Mother Day weekend…
Nice try!!
XXX — thanks for the words… I honestly had never heard of anybody ever drafted into anything but the Army….
If I would have gotten a draft notice, my plan was to either take an offer of a friend in Canada…
OR, the more likely course of action, enlist in the Air Force, where I had some friends, and family members…
I m glad those turbulent years are behind us now in this country…
Kansas — THIS is right off the Eagle front page >>>>
“I wish Republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback would enlighten us: How will allowing same-sex marriages lead to more babies being out of wedlock? (”East High students quiz Brownback,” Aug. 25 Local & State).”
Now, if that doesnt suit you, I am sorry…
Posted by: Chas. | August 29, 2007 at 08:32 PM
That’s not Brownback’s quote, that’s the East High School Student’s quote.
But nice try anyway. If you read the whole article you would have seen Brownback’s quote which was:
Quote from Eagle:
“”Thanks for asking, I guess,” Brownback said before saying that he believes same-sex marriage erodes a fundamental institution and could lead to fewer marriages and more babies born out of wedlock.”"
As I said, reading comprehension…
The way to address the Brownback hypothesis, is to look at countries that have adopted gay marriage and then to look at their out-of-lock birth rate. I am betting that this policy adoption had no significant impact on the rate of such births. To my knowledge there is no relationship between these seemingly independent constructs that are most likely governed by totally different causes.
Brownback and Republikhan should stick to partisan hackery and leave science to the scientists.
Will look into this later…
Other countries are not the United States. They are more often than not have Socialistic Government and ideologies.
The comparative value would be at its best, skewed along ideological lines.
Whether the story of baby Sarah is accurate or not is unimportant at this point. The fact of the matter is that ‘aborted’ babies have been born alive. One of them is currently a speaker traveling cross country to give awareness to the horrors of the abortion movement.
Chas everytime you open your mouth I am amazed that you call yourself a pastor, reverend, minister, etc… It just doesn’t jive.
A minister without a burden for the sanctity of life just isn’t believable. Enough said. You will face your maker some day just as I will.
Pmom for someone who says they are in the medical field I can’t believe you have never heard of babies who survived abortion attempts. Babies are pretty tough little characters. Look at that poor baby born to the mom at McDonalds today. After several attempts to flush him down the john he survived at 32 weeks.
Sometimes despite man’s best efforts God has the last word.
Well, Kansas, we know where your head is.
This is a source that questions the Brownback/Republikhancorrelation = causation hypothesis:
http://www.psychpage.com/gay/gmkurtz.html
This should be read by only those bloggers who have the ability to think. Guess who that leaves out Kansas/Republikhan, etc… ad infinitum?
And Steven Davis would you sum up what this psychobabble told us? I read it but am waiting for someone to tell me if it supports Brownback or knocks down his theory.
Thanks grm, you couldn’t have posted a more revealing post if you had thought about it all day.
I refuse to tell you what to think. That would be the job of Rush Limbaugh.
And, before I told you what to think, I would need to have some evidence that you are capable of such a task — In your posts I have seen no signs of this.
Beem me up, Scotty, no intelligent life here.
Correlation does not always equal scientific causality. It is a statistical exercise to show probabilities. It doesn’t mean it is the cause or as a result of an effect.
Besides, Chas interpretation of Brownback’s statement was one of pure reading comprehension error.
You can paint that donkey white, black, blue, red or purple.
It will still be a donkey afterwards.
Besides, as I said before he even posted his study, using Socialistic Countries with Socialistic ideology is not a valid study to apply to the U.S.
“…citing as proof trends in the marriage, divorce, and child-born-of-wedlock rates in Denmark, Norway, and Sweden.”
A quote from the very first sentence of the paper.
Kansas…
“That’s not Brownback’s quote, that’s the East High School Student’s quote.”
I never SAID it was Brownback’s quote… I SAID that I disagreed with Brownback’s PREMISE… And you are talking about reading comprehension???
Yo are NOT going to pull any of your usual garbage spillage at my expense tonite…
I have said repeatedly, I am NOT going to argue with you on this… I stand by what I said about Brownback’s premise…
So, just get over it!! You are soo narrow visioned, you can look through a keyhole with both eyes open…
I am not going to argue about what I said… And my quote was just what I said it was… from the front page of the Eagle…
That means YOU are the one who wanted me to post something so you could pick it apart, and I am all done playing that game…
Now, for the LAST TIME tonite, I am not arguing this point with you — I dont need to — I stand by what I said…
Basically, Brownback is just nuking futs!!
Grm, I never said I hadn’t heard of babies being born after an abortion attempt. I said I hadn’t heard THIS story.
And yes, it DOES matter how anti-choicers will go to any lengths to exploit tragedy.
Don’t you think if God were intervening, that he’d intervene before it got to the point of damaging the baby or the mothers life…like you know, blocking the egg in the first place, or better yet, having women not needing abortions?
I lifted my quote from the Eagle… There is nothing to read wrong… It is right there in print.
Posted by: Chas. | August 29, 2007 at 08:02 AM
His premise…
haha
You know, sort of like husbands can’t get their wife’s social security if the wife dies first.
That sort of premise. :)
The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it’s unfamiliar territory.- Paul Fix
Pmom I have stated regularly that I am very much in favor of birth control. I am not in favor of abortion as a form of birth control.
You can’t talk to someone like Political Mom about abortion when she refuses to even acknowledge the name of those she disagrees with.
Instead she constantly chooses to call people who are pro-life “anti-choice”
If Poltical Mom can’t even get the name of those she disagrees with correct then how can you expect to get anywhere in a discussion with her?
What does everyone thing of Ted Nugents comments on Hillary and Obama ?
It was Ted Nugent. What did you expect?
Kind of like asking us what we thought about seeing Michael Moore in a doughnut shop….
‘Hannity is Olbermann’s “Worst Person” for defending Nugent’s comments’http://mediamatters.org/items/200708280008?f=h_latest
Speaking of non-functional, here are some quotes from the GORACLE. You know that giant brain of a man, who knows everything there is to know about Global Warming. enjoy :)
“A zebra does not change its spots.” – Al Gore, attacking President George Bush in 1992.
“We can build a collective civic space large enough for all our separate identities, that we can be e pluribus unum — out of one, many.” E Pluribus Unum is the motto on the Great Seal of the United States of America, and is Latin for “out of many, one,” not “out of one, many.”
Maybe Michael Jordan hasn’t made an indelible impression on everyone outside Chicago. Speaking at a D.C. function, Vice President Al Gore, wowed by the Bulls, said: “I tell you that Michael Jackson is unbelievable, isn’t he. He’s just unbelievable.”( Source: The Chicago Tribune June 17, 1998 )
In 1996, Al Gore visited a school in a largely Hispanic portion of Albuquerque, New Mexico. In an effort to fit in, he decided it would be appropriate to say something in Spanish as he took the stage. He was probably supposed to say “Muchisimas Gracias”, which means “Very, very much thanks” or possibly “Muchas Gracias”, which means “thank you very much.” Instead, he walked on stage saying “Machismo Gracias” – roughly translated to “manliness thanks.” There’s a video clip of the press in Albuquerque giggling about it and saying, “Oh well, he’s trying.”
Oct. 25 2000 JACKSON, Tenn. (Reuters) — Criticizing Bush’s Social Security privatization plan at a rally in Tennessee, Gore said, “He is proposing to privatize a big part of Social Security and he’s proposing to take $1 trillion, a million billion dollars out of the Social Security trust fund and give it as a tax incentive to young workers.”A trillion is one thousand billion, not a million billion.
At a Sept. 22 press conference, Gore stated “I’ve been a part of the discussions on the strategic reserve since the days when it was first established.” However, President Ford established the Strategic Petroleum Reserves when he signed the Energy Policy and Conservation Act (EPCA) on December 22, 1975 — two years before Al Gore became a congressman(Source: Washington Post, Sept. 24 2000)
Milwaukee, WI – “I’m very familiar with the importance of dairy farming in Wisconsin. I’ve spent the night on a dairy farm here in Wisconsin. If I’m entrusted with the presidency, you’ll have someone who is very familiar with what the Wisconsin dairy industry is all about.”(Sources: Sunday, June 18, Atlanta Journal Constitution and The Washington Post, June 14, 2000)
Gore sometimes shows publicly that he lacks Clinton’s finesse. Take a reception in Los Angeles last month. It was Gore’s moment to shine before donors who ponied up $2.8 million. But he wound up egg-faced when he compared electing a Republican as president to rejecting an Oscar-winning team in favor of the producers of the Hollywood clunker ”Howard the Duck.” One of the evening’s hosts, Jeffrey Katzenberg, was a driving force behind ”Howard the Duck.” The crowd tittered.(Source: USA Today, May 8, 2000 )
From Meet the Press 12/19/99MR. RUSSERT: Senator, what did you think of the 1996 Clinton-Gore campaign’s approach to fund-raising?MR. BRADLEY: I thought that a lot of people in politics were embarrassed by it, quite frankly. I think Republicans and Democrats were disgraceful in that fund-raising program in 1996. Now, I think Al had the right point. It’s the lessons that you learn. In 1990, I raised a lot of money for my Senate race. I raised too much money. I discovered that you can have too much money in a political campaign. I think that’s what George Bush is going to discover. Now, in Al’s case, the attorney general investigated it fully and determined that an independent counsel was not needed. And so – and the Republicans might make that an issue, but that’s the reality. But I think the question is what you learn from this. And what I learned is that you’ve had seven years to actually do something on campaign-finance reform, and nothing has happened. I remember visiting the White House in 1993, Democratic Congress, both Senate and House, and urging the president to act on campaign-finance reform. Now, I don’t know if you were in the loop or not, but the fact of the matter is that no action took place. And when we say what we…VICE PRES. GORE: Because all the Republicans voted against it.MR. BRADLEY: …what we need to do…VICE PRES. GORE: And they controlled the Senate.MR. BRADLEY: …what we – where was the effort made, Al, in 1993?VICE PRES. GORE: We got every single Democratic senator to vote for it.
political_mom,Hospital staff allowing born-alive babies to die alone and untouched was fairly common prior to the enactment of the federal Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2002. In particular, Christ Hospital in Chicago was denounced in 1999 for routinely inducing labor or dilating the cervix to deliver a premature infant alive, and then allowing the infant to die alone, often in cases of Down Syndrome or spina bifida in the infant. (Nurse Jill Stanek was actually reprimanded for comforting one of the dying infants during his hour-long life, instead of leaving him dumped and untouched in a soiled linen room.)A baby’s heart starts beating 18 days after conception, but a baby can’t breathe very long with premature lungs at less than 20 weeks gestation, just squirm and feel pain.Be sure to vote for Baby-Hating Obama if you get a chance next year, political_mom, because he voted against the Illinois born-alive infants protection act when in the Illinois Senate in 2001 and 2002, citing the privilege of a woman and her quack to decide whether a born-alive infant should get any treatment or comfort.See live-birth abortion pagehttp://www.irlc.org/medical/m_live_birth.htmand pagehttp://www.usccb.org/prolife/publicat/lifeinsight/julaug2002.shtmland pagehttp://thehill.com/campaign-2008/abortion-foes-target-obama-because-of-his-vote-record-on-illinois-legislation-2007-02-15.html
Parkay I know it is a thanksless task but keep up the good work. I just keep thinking that as a nation that has been blessed beyond anything we could have ever expected we committ atrocities everyday in the way we handle the most vulnerable amoung us.
I was saddened last week when they was such a hue and cry for the dogs Michael Vick abused and yet no outcry when babies suffer.
What a sad commentary on our countries values.
Boy this family never changes do they
A Pakistani immigrant is wanted by federal authorities on charges he channeled $30,000 in illegal contributions to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s presidential war chest.
The FBI is hunting Los Angeles businessman Abdul Rehman Jinnah, who vanished soon after his grand-jury indictment for violating federal election laws last May.
Clinton’s camp has denied any knowledge of Jinnah’s scheme, which is also alleged to have funneled more than $50,000 in illegal donations to the political action committees of Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), the Los Angeles Times reported yesterday.
Jinnah, 56, a cellphone and frozen-yogurt businessman, allegedly collected campaign donations from family members, friends and employees at fake fund-raising events – then reimbursed them. The scam allowed him to evade the $2,000 limit on individual contributions to candidates, the feds say.
He is believed to have fled to his native Pakistan after his indictment on charges of conspiracy and making illegal campaign contributions.
The FBI has posted Jinnah’s mug shot on its featured fugitive list.
Clinton’s campaign said Jinnah’s allegedly illegal contributions would be donated to charity. A representative said the campaign had no knowledge of Jinnah’s activities and had not been contacted by federal investigators.
Norman Hsu is one of the leading political fund-raisers in the country this year. In fact, many fund-raisers say he is one of a small handful of people capable of raising more than $1 million — a major feat considering the maximum donation allowed by an individual for 2008 races is $4,600 per candidate.
Norman Hsu, left, with Hillary Clinton at a fund-raiser for the senator in New York in 2005.But longtime political donors are curious: “Who is Norman Hsu?” asks Robin Chandler Duke, a former ambassador and longtime supporter of Bill and Hillary Clinton.
Until three years ago, Mr. Hsu never made a campaign contribution to a presidential candidate, according to federal election records. Now, though, several people involved in raising money for White House candidates say Mr. Hsu is a major player.
Many “HillRaisers” — people who rustle up at least $100,000 for Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign — are dwarfed beside Mr. Hsu (pronounced “Shu”). Several people involved in Democratic presidential fund-raising say Mr. Hsu, an apparel executive, has raised well over $1 million for the New York senator’s presidential campaign, making him one of the top 20 Democratic fund-raisers in the country. The Clinton campaign doesn’t disclose such details and declined to comment for this story.
“Forget the politics — Norman is widely regarded as decent, and enormously generous,” says Orin Kramer, a hedge-fund manager who is a chief fund-raiser for Barack Obama, the Illinois senator who is Mrs. Clinton’s strongest rival for the party’s presidential nomination.
“I have been blessed by what this country has given me and have tried to give back in many ways,” Mr. Hsu said in an email to a Wall Street Journal reporter earlier this week. “One way has been through political contributions to candidates and causes I believe in. I have never asked for anything in return. I’ve asked friends and colleagues of mine to give money out of their own pockets and sometimes they have agreed,” he added.
People who have met him at events describe Mr. Hsu as warm, giving, charming and well-dressed. But unlike most big fund-raisers this cycle — such as hedge-fund magnate Paul Tudor Jones for Mr. Obama and buyout pioneer Henry Kravis for Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain — Mr. Hsu remains remarkably low-profile. Even some other Clinton fund-raisers say they don’t know him at all and have been surprised to see him emerge as a top fund-raiser.
DONATION DATA
See details on political donations from the Paw family, Norman Hsu and a handful of Mr. Hsu’s business associates in New YorkYesterday, The Wall Street Journal reported that a modest home in a middle-class San Francisco suburb, where the family of mail carrier William Paw resides, is listed as the address for many contributions to the Clinton campaign. Mr. Hsu once listed the home as his address, according to public records, and the Paws’ donations closely tracked his.
Mr. Hsu’s lawyer, Lawrence Barcella, took issue with a connection between his client and the Paws.
“Like every fund-raiser, he asks friends, colleagues and others to support the causes and candidates he supports. That is what every fund-raiser in America for any cause — political or nonprofit — does,” Mr. Barcella said in a written statement. “And, in none of these instances, to address the WSJ innuendo, has Mr. Hsu reimbursed them for their contributions.”
Campaign-finance reports filed with the Federal Election Commission list Mr. Hsu as a consultant with a company called Components Ltd.; a director of another called Next Components; a designer for Because Men’s Clothes; and an independent apparel consultant.
Mr. Hsu has been connected with the Paws for at least a decade, according to a person familiar with the matter. Mr. Hsu recently hired William Paw’s 35-year-old son, Winkle Paw, to work for several of his New York apparel companies.
According to campaign-finance records, Mr. Hsu made his first campaign contribution, in the amount of $2,000, to the presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry on July 21, 2004. Mr. Hsu has since donated $225,000 to Democratic candidates.
During that same time, Mr. Hsu has “bundled” contributions from other donors for candidates. It is legal for individuals to ask friends, colleagues and family members to make donations to political candidates, though not to reimburse people for such donations.
Most presidential candidates disclose the names of their bundlers, and a new law requires registered lobbyists to disclose how much money they raise for lawmakers beginning next year.
Mr. Hsu supports other Democrats besides Mrs. Clinton. On June 23, he helped throw a “6th Anniversary of his 60th Birthday fund-raiser” for California Rep. Mike Honda. A few days later, he joined Blackstone Group Chairman Stephen Schwarzman and lawyer David Boies to host a $1,000-a-plate 40th-birthday bash for Rep. Patrick Kennedy of Rhode Island.
In the email to the Journal, Mr. Hsu listed several Democratic politicians to whom he has given money, and said he has never asked any for favors. They include Pennsylvania Gov. Edward G. Rendell; New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine; Massachusetts Sen. Ted Kennedy; California Sen. Dianne Feinstein; and Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown.
Representatives for each of the Democrats declined to comment for this story.
“However, President Ford established the Strategic Petroleum Reserves when he signed the Energy Policy and Conservation Act (EPCA) on December 22, 1975 — two years before Al Gore became a congressman” Source: Washington Post, Sept. 24 2000)
Posted by the troll Kansas.
Thank you TROLL Kansas, for helping me PROVE my point, about our dysfunctional MEDIA.
How many barrels of oil went into the SPR when it was “established” on Dec. 22, 1975???
ZERO! And it was “established” with NO location, NO policies, NO facilities, etc.
Gore was on the 1977 committee that ACTUALLY “established” the locations, policies, facilities, etc of the SPR. Filling began in July 1977.
Lets get with it Kansas !!!
Tulsa – Tens of thousands of Hispanics have left the Tulsa area. And, a law designed to crack down on illegal immigration hasn’t even taken effect yet. But, there’s a catch.
East Tulsa is where the majority of Hispanics ended up settling. They came by the thousands and now they’re leaving that way, too. And, it’s all because of one word — deportation.
Business owner Simon Navarro came to America for a better life. And, he found one on Tulsa’s east side.
“I have 11 years here in Tulsa,” he says.
But, a tough new state law has much of Tulsa’s immigrant population fleeing for fear of deportation.
“Two months ago I heard 25-thousand Hispanics have left Oklahoma,” Navarro says.
That is about 30-percent of Oklahoma’s Hispanic population.
“They are leaving. A lot have already left.”
Francisco Trevino runs Tulsa’s Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. He says the exodus hurts a lot of people working in a lot of fields.
“I think restaurants, construction, lawn care they do everything we don’t want to do,” he says.
It’s making it hard for local companies to find workers. But, officials are standing firm. If they are here illegally, it’s a one way trip home.
And, the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office is doing its part to move things along. This week, they’re training deputies to handle the deportation process. And word is spreading quickly. Simon has already said a lot of goodbyes.
“People are leaving,” he says. “They’re scared of the sheriff.”
In the end, Trevino says it hurts everyone.
The American citizens in the state of Oklahoma suffer. It’s as simple as that.”
There is a large group of people on the other side who believe the new law, which takes effect in November, is a good idea.
Most illegal immigrants are ending up in either Kansas or Arkansas. But, that may not be for long. Arkansas is about to adopt a law like Oklahoma’s. Kansas is considering the same thing
Operation Wetback was a 1954 project of the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) to remove about 1.2 million illegal immigrants from the southwestern United States, with a focus on Mexican nationals. Mexican citizens illegally residing in the U.S. were called wetbacks.
HistoryBurgeoning numbers of illegal aliens prompted President Dwight D. Eisenhower to appoint his longtime friend, General Joseph Swing, as INS Commissioner. According to Attorney General Herbert Brownell Jr., Eisenhower had a sense of urgency about illegal immigration immediately upon taking office. In a letter to Sen. William Fulbright, Eisenhower quoted a report in The New York Times that said: “The rise in illegal border-crossing by Mexican ‘wetbacks’ to a current rate of more than 1,000,000 cases a year has been accompanied by a curious relaxation in ethical standards extending all the way from the farmer-exploiters of this contraband labor to the highest levels of the Federal Government.”
Eisenhower became increasingly concerned that profits from illegal labor led to corruption. An on-and-off guest-worker program for Mexicans was operating at the time, and farmers and ranchers in the Southwest were becoming dependent on additional low-cost labor. The operation was modeled after the deportation program that invited American citizens of Mexican ancestry to go back to Mexico during the Great Depression because of the bad economy north of the border. See Mexican Repatriation.
OperationThe operation began in California and Arizona and coordinated 1,075 Border Patrol agents along with state and local police agencies to mount an aggressive crackdown, going as far as police sweeps of Mexican-American neighborhoods and random stops and ID checks of “Mexican-looking” people in a region with many Native Americans and native Hispanics.[1] In some cases, illegal immigrants were deported along with their American-born children, who were by law U.S. citizens. The agents used a wide brush in their criteria for interrogating potential aliens. They adopted the practice of stopping “Mexican-looking” citizens on the street and asking for identification. 750 agents targeted agricultural areas with a goal of 1000 apprehensions a day. By the end of July, over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states. Around 488,000 people fled the country for fear of being apprehended. By September, 80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas, and the INS estimates that 500,000-700,000 illegals had left Texas voluntarily. To discourage re-entry, buses and trains took many illegals deep within Mexico before being set free. Tens of thousands more were put aboard two hired ships, the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried the aliens from Port Isabel, Texas, to Veracruz, Mexico, more than 500 miles (900 kilometers) south.
ResultOperation Wetback deported approximately 80,000 Mexican nationals in the space of almost a year, although local INS officials claimed that an additional 500,000-700,000 had fled to Mexico before the campaign began. The INS estimates rested on the claim that most undocumented people, fearing apprehension by the government, had voluntarily repatriated themselves before and during the operation.
kgrm,
Here’s afew cut and paste things regarding the economy.Things are a little shaky right now.
Foreigners seek oversight on U.S. markets – reportPoliticians, regulators and investors abroad are looking to take a greater role in overseeing United States markets after recent losses relating to the subprime fiasco.August 29 2007: 7:22 AM EDT
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — Investors outside the United States are calling for greater foreign oversight of American markets, banks and credit agencies, according to a report Wednesday.
They argue that the U.S. exports its financial products to international investors, but isn’t adequately monitoring and regulating the securities, as evidenced by the substantial losses related to the subprime mortgage scare, said the New York Times.
“We need an internationalapproach, and the United States needs to be part of it,” Peter Bofinger, a member of the German government’s economics advisory board, told the Times.
UPDATE: Normally Safe Commercial Paper Market Can’t Escape Credit CrunchDow JonesAugust 30, 2007: 09:38 PM EST
SAN FRANCISCO (Dow Jones) — Before this summer, few investors probably bothered to understand a rather staid and highly specialized part of modern financing: commercial paper.
But now, the all-encompassing term has abruptly moved into the spotlight. As mortgage lenders struggle to stay afloat and credit markets reel worldwide, even the shortest of short-term financing for business operations is facing what some view as unprecedented pressure.
“Commercial paper markets have been hurt just as much as a lot of other credit markets,” said RBC Capital Markets analyst Jason Arnold.
Outstanding commercial paper fell by $62.8 billion, or 3.1%, in the week ended Wednesday to $1.98 trillion, bringing the total decline in the past three weeks to $244 billion, or 11%, the Federal Reserve reported Thursday.
Such a hit has taken place despite commercial paper’s seemingly safe-haven status in lending. “It’s kind of like a margin account that businesses use for short-term financing,” Arnold said.
While it has been a primary source of funding for corporate mergers and acquisitions, it “can be used for almost anything,” said Raymond Benton, a Denver-based adviser who purchases individual bond issues for high net-worth clients. Commercial paper is a generic term for most any short-term corporate borrowing, he added. “It’s nothing more than a short-term note that can come due in as little as 30 days or less,” Benton said.
Usually, such notes are backed by some sort of select group of assets. That could be anything from plant