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Open thread 8/22
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Aug. 22, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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224 Comments
Interesting comments by Gore on another thread. “I can’t understand why there aren’t rings of young people . . .”
If you sit down and gave them a list of what the seniors vote for and where the money to support it comes from, you might find yourself with a ring of young people asking grandma why she left them with this fiscal mess.
The basis of most so-called “conservative” policy is “I’ve got mine, you go to hell.”
It’s greed.
It’s selfishness.
It’s likely to ruin civilization.
Fortunately there is the Constitution of the United States of America that preserves individual rights against the whims of the majority.
“The basis of most so-called “conservative” policy is “I’ve got mine, you go to hell.”
It’s greed.
It’s selfishness.
It’s likely to ruin civilization.
Fortunately there is the Constitution of the United States of America that preserves individual rights against the whims of the majority.”
That was the OLD conservative mantra. The new one is “I got mine but I want even more so I am gonna take it from you”.
I wonder if global warming is effecting us here in Atlanta. Despite what many folks thing “Hotlanta” is not all that hot usually. Before this month, the last 100 degree day we had was like 7 years ago. But this month has been HELL and continues to be. It has been 100 almost everyday. 8 records broke this month. Not a drop of rain in 3 weeks now and we tied the all time Atlanta high of 105 degrees 2 weeks ago. And it shows no sign of leaving anytime soon. I am just wondering if this is global warming or if it was just “our turn” to have a hell summer.
“If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.”—1 Corinthians 13:1
I pray that the noisy gongs and clanging cymbals stay away today.
Thousands of Massachusetts children from low-income families could be denied health insurance under new rules imposed by the Bush administration late last week. The rules could cut federal matching funds for a state-run program that is a key component of the state’s health insurance initiative.http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/08/22/children_may_lose_out_on_insurance/
You just gotta love those “compassionate conservatives”! Always ready to kick somebody when they’re down.Good thing children can’t vote, lol!
WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE?
A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence.
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf
If you build a business from scratch. Go through immeasurably hard times to build it. After years of blood sweat and tears. Now you employ several people and you are earning 100,000 per year.
You shouldn’t have that much money, so let’s take 50% and give it to someone who never really tried.
1) What would motivate the next person to try so hard?2) What would motivate the person getting free money to pull themselves up and wok for themselves? I mean if he/she is getting something for nothing…3) A third individual sees this, what path would he/she follow? Hard work or easy money.
Handing money out is wrong. Taking from the fortunate and giving to the unfortunate may give you a warm fuzzy, but ultimately hurts everyone involved.
These are blanket statements and there are cases in which the roles are reversed, but overall, if you take from me what I worked hard for and give it to someone else, I am disinclined to work hard.
If you give to someone that does not work hard, they are disinclined to work hard.
Simple enough?
Awww, those poor put upon well-off! Hedge funds managers make millions a year and pay a smaller percentage of income to taxes than the waitress in the local diner. http://tinyurl.com/293vdg
Let the bridges fall down, let the 80 year old steam pipes explode. Let the roads decay and let the schools lose quality teachers to higher paying jobs!
What the heck!?? I got mine!! And I’ll even get a social security check when I retire to the Bahamas so I can get a new boat each year!!
SolAs much as I agree with the premise of your statement, lets not exaggerate the facts. First of all, I do not believe that anyone on government assistance makes 50k per year. Welfare does not provide an easy life. It takes one up to the poverty level between food stamps and cash assistance. If we had tougher child support enforcement, you would find that welfare numbers would drop. As long as there are dead beat parents or parents in prison, the need to assist the good parent will continue.
I do have a question. What would our streets look like if abortion was illegal, and welfare did not exist? How many mothers and children would be homeless?
David, Please take half of your paycheck to the Salvation Army. Please take the other half to city hall for infrastructure maint. Please do so every pay period.
Thank you,The socialists.
Just so you are on the record Solly, who should pay for the bridges and other infrastructure projects? Should this be privatized as well? We do pay taxes, should that money just disappear? What is an acceptable public funded project?
Mike,I pay child support. I pay ENOUGH child support that the –ex- takes summers off and lives off of my money and the money she gets from her other illegitimate daughter. That sound like a deadbeat? Does that even sound fair? I earn that money. I am taxed on that money. She rides for free. Gotta love socialism.
There is someone… won’t go into that. ‘Person’ was fired 8 months ago. Person got unemployment for six months. Person didn’t once look for a new job – because he was getting unemployment. Now person, wife and three children live with me — because person is homeless and jobless. Person has been living with me for close to 2 months now. Person still has no urgency to find a job. Person’s bills and roof are taken care of. No motivation to get off the free ride.
Another – person. Hubby has a descent blue collar job. Person does not work. Person is ‘on government aid’. Person had another baby because her youngest was about to move into a different bracket for aid.
If you give for free, motivation ends.
I do have a question. What would our streets look like if abortion was illegal, and welfare did not exist? How many mothers and children would be homeless?Posted by: Mike | August 22, 2007 at 08:11 AM
You’d be surprised how much work the average citizen is willing to do when they are hungry. If you hand things out, you are only training people to return to the hand instead of helping them help themselves.
Don’t give them money. Give them a JOB !!!
Just so you are on the record Solly, who should pay for the bridges and other infrastructure projects? Should this be privatized as well? We do pay taxes, should that money just disappear? What is an acceptable public funded project?Posted by: Mike | August 22, 2007 at 08:18 AM
Apples and oranges. This started out as talking about people getting free money. We need taxes to support the military (state and fed) and infrastructure – streets, police, fire dept, etc.
Of course we should be taxed. We should be taxed FAIRLY. Get rid of this debunked errant sidestepped tax code and get to a flat tax or a sales tax. Everyone pulls their fair share.
Problem with sales tax – might put a home or car out of the reach of many. Flat tax sounds better to me. No deductions. No sidestepping. Every damn dollar you bring in gets taxed at the same rate for everyone.
I am of course talking about State and local taxes. The Fed has no business taking the money I earn as an individual.
Kansas had one of the biggest percentage increases in deadly drunken-driving crashes last year, according to federal statistics released Monday.http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/240105.html
Guns don’t kill people…alcohol kills people. Get rid of the booze.
SolDid I call you a dead beat? No. The fact is that there are dead beat parents out there.
If the person that lives in your house was fired, and did not go look for a job while they received unemployment then they are lazy. I don’t know how anyone lives on $335/week. If you have removed this persons motivation for leaving your home then it sounds like you need to have a talk with this person.
And if you know someone is defrauding the government as it seems like in your second scenario, then you need to report them. I do not believe that if the husband has a decent job, that the wife can go get assistance. Something does not add up here.
VIDEO
Helicopter crashes in Iraq, killing 14 soldiers
The UH-60 Black Hawk was part of a pair of helicopters on a nighttime operation when the crash occurred. The four crew members and 10 passengers who perished in the crash were assigned to Task Force Lightning, the military said. It did not release identities pending notification of relatives.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20385843/
Snuffy,
The world would be a much better place if we cut out the middle man, Get rid of People.
Then,no guns, no booze; a perfect world.
Mike,
Therein lies the problem and you have missed the point. ‘Person’ one lived off the government teat long enough (well not really being as person lost house, electricity, phone etc). By handing him money, what is his motivation to work? Even as he could not meet his bills, he still got a free check, took it, and did little else. Do you see what handing out money does? Now if instead of a check, they made him go out and work… And as far as –talking to him—this is a family member (in-law to me) and there are issues there far too personal for a blog. I understand your point about talking to him, and I hope you see my point of what handouts get you.
How is the second person defrauding anyone? By MI standards, they qualify for assistance. The state has no leverage to tell her to quite cranking out kids she can’t afford. She gets a hand out and works the system. Now if she DIDN’T get that assistance, MAYBE she’d get off her butt and help support the family.
*quit*
Mike,
I understand your wanting to help people and that is admirable. I would like to help people too. But handouts gain you little. It makes people dependant on the government. There are far too many people that would rather ride the system than be productive.
How about those folks that can, go work for farmers. Go take the jobs the illegal immigrants or doing. I keep hearing about ‘Big Business’ hiring illegals. Let the unemployed take those jobs – whatever they may be.
How about we draw down on outsourcing. Create MORE jobs for the jobless?
My philosophy follows “Give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day…” You know the rest.
“Give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day…”
Teach a man to fish and his wife will be on his a$$ forever.LOL! LOL!
“No one has the right to place timetables on the Iraq government. It was elected by its people,” the Shiite leader said at a news conference in Damascus at the end of a three-day visit to Syria.“Those who make such statements are bothered by our visit to Syria. We will pay no attention. We care for our people and our constitution and can find friends elsewhere,” al-Maliki said.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20385843/
SWEET !!! Pack it up boys & come on home. Iraq has some new playmates in the sandbox !!!!
“Please take half of your paycheck to the Salvation Army. Please take the other half to city hall for infrastructure maint. Please do so every pay period.”
Nobody likes to pay taxes. But the national debt already exists. Do you propose not paying it? What are your solutions other than blaming it on someone else?
Give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day.
Give a man a gun and he’ll get his own goddamn fish.
There are a lot of ways to get the government back on track annie. Start by pulling back government. What has Home Land Security really done besides give us a color code system that never changes color? Let the FBI and CIA do their job and find ways to help the two communicate.
There are many fed programs that can be cut or leaned. Put that money towards the debt. Let the state’s be states and provide for their people.
By the way annie, whom did I blame?
No I don’t know why I put that apostrophe in there. Because it looked pretty damn it ;->
I fully agree with what you are saying regarding “hand outs”. Unemployment is not a “hand out”. The employee and employer contribute funds each pay period. And if the employee was fired, then they had to prove that their discharge was not reasonable. In KS, if you are fired and want to collect unemployment then you must have a hearing conducted by the state to see if you qualify.
What seperates the U.S. from countries like China is the fact that the government cannot tell you how many children to have. As much as we would like to do this, it spits in the face of democracy. I do understand this is a single case and it does seem like she is working the system. But there are hard working single parents out there. And blanket rules for those that abuse the system may seem ok, these rules will harm just as many.
Mike, the employer is the only contributor to the unemployment fund.All: the right to procreate is a Constitutional right according to SCOTUS in a decision rendered decades ago, the cite to which I don’t have right now.
Operation Everyman(Kansas) is a GO!!!
s.m.sb
Must read book, “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man” by John Perkins, Plume-Penguin Press out now in paperback.
It says everything we sort of knew and fills in the details of how it works.
The kleptocracy dominates our government and world markets. Economic hit men like Perkins meet with heads of state in the third world to cajol, threaten, bribe, or extort resources for huge multinationals.
If the heads of state don’t come along willingly, then the “jackals” move in. Heads of state who don’t toe the line have an unfortunate habit of dying in “accidental” airplane crashes or sudden coups.
If that doesn’t work, then the military is called in like in Reagan’s Lebanon adventure, Noriega’s Panama, or Iraq.
It’s so damn obvious, you’d have to be a CON not to see it.
“You shouldn’t have that much money, so let’s take 50% and give it to someone who never really tried.
1) What would motivate the next person to try so hard?2) What would motivate the person getting free money to pull themselves up and wok for themselves? I mean if he/she is getting something for nothing…3) A third individual sees this, what path would he/she follow? Hard work or easy money.
Posted by: SolDevVB | August 22, 2007 at 07:47 AM ”
I don’t think the inference alluded to by these questions is valid.A person that is capable of earning enough to be taxed anywhere close to 50% (or even 30%) will not be content with the ‘free money’ they could get which would amount to poverty level income.
Alas, isn’t it better to have 65% of $100K than 85% of $35K?
VTI appreciate your correction.
“I do understand this is a single case and it does seem like she is working the system.”It’s much more than a single case. This is rampant and I think even Bill Clinton worked towards cleaning up welfare.
“Unemployment is not a “hand out”.”Tell that to my houseguest. Again, when it is free and easy, why work? There is also the mentality of ‘Since I paid for it, I should get it back.’ And sit at home on his/her lazy can.
“But there are hard working single parents out there. And blanket rules for those that abuse the system may seem ok, these rules will harm just as many.”Give them jobs not handouts.
85% of $35K?Posted by: brian | August 22, 2007 at 09:44 AM
So those that have earned less are more likely to lean on the government. Kinda my point. When they are getting hand outs, what is their motivation to go back to work?
You haven’t addressed that. You pick apart my analogy and totally ignore the point. What motivation does a low income earner have to excel while being given a check each – week – other week – month – whatever.
Bush Bumper Stickers* 1/20/09: End of an Error* Bush. Like a Rock, Only Dumber.* You Can’t Be Pro-War And Pro-Life At The Same Time* If You Can Read This, You’re Not the President* Of Course It Hurts: You’re Getting Screwed by an Elephant* Hey, Bush Supporters: Embarrassed Yet?* George Bush: Creating the Terrorists Our Kids Will Have to Fight* Impeachment: It’s Not Just for Sex Anymore* America: One Nation, Under Surveillance* They Call Him ‘W’ So He Can Spell It* Jail to the Chief* No, Seriously, Why Did We Invade?* Bush: God’s Way of Proving Intelligent Design is Full Of Crap* Bad president! No Banana.* We Need a President Who’s Fluent In At Least One Language* We’re Making Enemies Faster Than We Can Kill Them* Is It Vietnam Yet?* You Elected Him. You Deserve Him.* When Bush Took Office, Gas Was $1.46* The Republican Party: Our Bridge to the 11th Century.
SolNot everyone that receives assistance does not work. This myth is the con way to lump people together. There are some that work the system. But again, this is not a luxurious lifestyle. For every 1 case you can find where the receipient does not work, you will find 5 that do.
Until all men step up and take care of their children, welfare will be a necessary evil.
“So those that have earned less are more likely to lean on the government. Kinda my point. When they are getting hand outs, what is their motivation to go back to work?”
The 85% of $35K indicated the much lower tax bracket enjoyed by lower income filers. Not those receiving government assistance.
For an individual earning more than $35-40K, I think capacity rather than drive is the limiting factor of their income. People in that range are gainfully employed in full-time jobs probably requiring something beyond a high school education or some degree of job experience. Those are not people setting at home.
SOL — Clinton DID try to do something about the “free ride” trip that too many get stuck in…
Incentives are important… Rent prices in many areas are WAY high for many single parents with children at home… Without some kind of incentive, they could easily be homeless people…
Your house guest IMO needs to be told they have ONE month to get out… I might even be to your benefit to even pay a “deposit” on a rental residence to help achieve that… Make it a LOAN to be paid off in due time…
There is NO reason you should suffer any economic loss because of your kind efforts to help them out… But the kind of help you are providing has little incentive to get “with it” and get moving…
I am NOT disagreeing with you very much at all here… been there, done that a few times myself… I am just encouraging you to follow the Clinton intention… Namely, incentives HELP… full rides dont…
I can only hope that the Clinton initiatives keep working…
Oooops… * I * = It
“what is their motivation to go back to work? You haven’t addressed that. ”
For someone fired or laid off, unemployment runs out.
“You pick apart my analogy and totally ignore the point. What motivation does a low income earner have to excel while being given a check each – week – other week – month – whatever.”
By this statement are you refering to someone that is a full time worker who makes a comparitively small income being motivated to make more money, or someone who is not working and is capable of that is receiving unemployment?
Mike,
MYTH??? I just gave you two real life examples. These are people I KNOW. I know many others as well. MYTH? My God man what is your head full of?
“Until all men step up and take care of their children, welfare will be a necessary evil. “WTF is this? For one, in both of my real life examples, the couples are together. For the second, the damn child support structure sucks. How is it that I can earn x dollars (and be taxed on every one of them) and have to give the –ex- y% of that. Bear in mind the y% is enough for her to take summers off.
Wow, and you say ‘cons’ are brain washed. Someone did a number on you Mike.
Chas,
They have offered to go live in an aunt’s – not really sure what, but it is in a very dangerous city. That is their only fall back – that city. Should something happen to anyone, can you imagine the burden we would feel?
By this statement are you refering to someone that is a full time worker who makes a comparitively small income being motivated to make more money, or someone who is not working and is capable of that is receiving unemployment?Posted by: brian | August 22, 2007 at 10:04 AM
As my example showed – someone capable of finding work, but is satisfied to live off the government to the point they became homeless. Hand outs don’t work, unless that hand out is a job.
I think you are what could be called an ‘enabler’ Sol
“but is satisfied to live off the government to the point they became homeless. Hand outs don’t work, unless that hand out is a job.
Posted by: SolDevVB | August 22, 2007 at 10:09 AM ”
But they have not became homeless.Sometimes a person has to reach bottom to realize the seriousness of their situation and find motivation to change. Your safety net has given that bottom a soft landing, and obviously not provided a crash that would motivate them.
You know what Brian, you can label me as you see fit.
I find a family of five homeless. They come to me and ask for help. I give it to them. They abuse it. Their only fall back after my family is to live in an excessively dangerous city. I would rather be an ‘enabler’ than to have a tragedy befall any of them.
And I would also say that the government and hand outs are enablers as well.
“The basis of most so-called “conservative” policy is “I’ve got mine, you go to hell.”
It’s greed.It’s selfishness.It’s likely to ruin civilization.
Fortunately there is the Constitution of the United States of America that preserves individual rights against the whims of the majority.
Posted by: Long Time Poster, First Time Lurker | August 22, 2007 at 04:38 AM”
Agree with your last statement Lurker, fortunately we have a Constitution which has prevented pure Socialism so far.
The basis of Socialism is:
“You’ve got yours, I don’t, so Gimme Yours! I don’t care if you worked hard to earn it, and I didn’t. I want, but I don’t want to work for it.”
It’s stealing.
It’s selfishness.
It’s likely to ruin civilization.
The difference between a Socialist and a Capitalist is this:
Capitalists do not need Socialists.
But Socialists do need Capitalists.
Somebody has to do the work.
If you are unhappy with your child support arrangement Solly, you might want to find a better lawyer. How is it society’e fault that you have to pay x% to your ex wife?
It takes all kinds of people to make our society work. Yes this means poor people too. Some people have large families on very low incomes. These people need assistance. If you have opened your home to someone that is not motivated to work, then you are enabling them. Should we revoke all public assistance due to a small minority? Not everyone has a college education and makes 50k per year. There are some adults that work for $8/hr and work 40 hrs per week, and have a family of 5. What are these people to do?
Brian, you took that “enabler” word right off of my keyboard…
Sol — I really feel for you in this thing… IF there is no work for them where YOU live, there is probably no work in that “dangerous” city either…
However, I have a hunch that there is work available… but maybe not the exact type of work they want… Without knowing all of the details as you know them, I am a little hard pressed to offer much more than helping them with a “rent deposit” and maybe working with them in a job search…
I am assuming they have tried searching on CareerBuilder.com…
If not, help set them up with resume’s to be posted using that Web Site… It can be very reliable in some job categories…
It has to be hard on them, as well as on you… Perhaps there are things you need done around your house that they can do for you in the meantime??
Perhaps, an appointment with your minister/priest/rabbi for them could be some help?? Clergy often times have “ears” for job openings that others dont always have…
I know I have “ears” like that at times…
But like Brian points out, whatever you do, try your best to NOT be an enabler… That is a more friendly term than co-dependent, but the idea is similar..
And my very best to you in this very difficult situation!!
“in an excessively dangerous city”
I am not questioning your judgement, but which city is so dangerous that you would not want your family to live there?
Liberal Socialists have a very negative view of People.
Why do you think more people – had they been allowed to have been born, would not be productive, prosperous, and make a positive contribution to the world?
You assume they would all be deadbeats.
You assume all those who get abortions are poor Socialists.
And you assume that people in a world without welfare would starve.
How many Americans starved to death in the Great Depression?
My God, there was no welfare then.How could they possibly have survived?
HARD WORK. Two words, not in the vocabulary of a Liberal Socialist.
“I do have a question. What would our streets look like if abortion was illegal, and welfare did not exist? How many mothers and children would be homeless?
Posted by: Mike | August 22, 2007 at 08:11 AM”
“If you are unhappy with your child support arrangement Solly, you might want to find a better lawyer. How is it society’e fault that you have to pay x% to your ex wife?”
Spoken like someone who has never paid. Great to know I am talking to an experienced payer. I could pay a lawyer 1,000,000 and still pay the exact same amount. Both Texas and Michigan have ‘formulas’. I expect KS does as well. Get some information before you make claims or bogus statements.
“These people need assistance. If you have opened your home to someone that is not motivated to work, then you are enabling them.”So I should just put them out on the street and hope for the best. No better yet, let them move to a dangerous city and just –hope—that their children aren’t shot. Great liberal mind there Mike. Outstanding.
“Should we revoke all public assistance due to a small minority?”It’s NOT the freakin minority Mike. Get a grip on reality. Do I have stats or a website to prove it? Nope. Who the hell is going to admit publicly that they are riding the system?
“There are some adults that work for $8/hr and work 40 hrs per week, and have a family of 5. What are these people to do?”
Go to school. Get a better job. Not have 5 kids if you can’t afford them.
There was this thing once, called The American Dream. Really cool deal too. Problem is, you have to WORK for it.
Brian,
Flint
“Sol — I really feel for you in this thing… IF there is no work for them where YOU live,”There is work. Both places.
“I am assuming they have tried searching on CareerBuilder.com…”He doesn’t have a skill set that posts there.
“Perhaps there are things you need done around your house that they can do for you in the meantime??”He won’t even clean up after his own kids.
And my very best to you in this very difficult situation!!Posted by: Chas. | August 22, 2007 at 10:21 AM
Thanx. If God brings you to it, He’ll bring you through it. Just waiting for that light at the end of the tunnel (hopping it isn’t a train ;->)
Yep… I hear Flint is a very dangerous city at the present time… Friend of mine in Saginaw tells me that… she is afraid to drive there alone…
Sol,
You think that is bad?
Do you know what they do to your military retirement?
For every year you were maried to someone and then divorced that is the percentage of your retirement they can get.
No kidding.
A guy I served with had been married 3 times. I believe it was 4 years with first wife and 6 with second. Still married to 3rd.
He was about to retire.
His first wife will get 20 percent of it and his second will get 30 percent.
So he will only get half his retirement.
Saginaw isn’t the greatest, I work near there, but FAR better than Flint.
Sol, Kansas has a formula as well on child support, as I imagine almost all, if not all, the states do. This is the result of certain federal legislation back in the 1990s, IIRC.
Re: CareerBuilder… Sometimes you have to use a “close” skill set to what he has… Also, there is Manpower… They can be fairly reliable especially in urban areas… I will check out some others as well, and get back to you later…
Hang in there… I do believe that you can get this solved… And again, my best to you…
“Your house guest IMO needs to be told they have ONE month to get out…
Posted by: Chas. | August 22, 2007 at 10:03 AM”
Chas, you are finally coming around! Soon you may be a true conservative!
All those on welfare should be given a 30 day notice:
“Your free handouts END in 30 days. You will need to find a job and pay your own way from now on. Suggest you get busy job hunting now. You’ve been given a free education. Now go out there and apply your knowledge and skills learned and get that good job!”
I need to get out more. I thought everywhere in Michigan was nice and friendly.
Sol,
I do agree with you. I lived with people who had no motivation to do anything beyond simply living from food stamp check and SSI check from month to month in low income housing.
That is a $hit deal Nathan. My Dad did 30+ years in the foreign service. His second divorce, she could have gotten half. She was more interested in her green card though.
What really burns my a$$ about government service retirement is when the Gov’t takes away from it. Now damn it if you told someone if you work for us for x years, you will receive y benefits. Don’t you dare screw with y so that you can fund some damn socialist program!!!
Oh, Sol — How is your Voc. Rehab. system there in MI??? If he is re-trainable, that can work wonders in some circumstances…
IF he can drive a truck, or learn, he can make some decent $$$.Several of the BIG trucking outfits have excellent paid training programs… Such as Schneider, and USATruck, and J. B. Hunt… all accessible on Web sites…
I need to get out more. I thought everywhere in Michigan was nice and friendly.Posted by: brian | August 22, 2007 at 10:36 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHOh…
Man, it’s Yankee country up here. ME ME ME ME ME is all anyone thinks about up here. Sure as hell miss Texas.
“Oh, Sol — How is your Voc. Rehab. system there in MI??? If he is re-trainable, that can work wonders in some circumstances… “Our governor just passed a bill that will PAY FOR 2 years of college for displaced workers. He has no high school diploma nor GED. Michigan works will help him with his GED for free. Still won’t do it.
He is a certified truck driver. He has the opportunity to do some –over the road – stuff. There are problems with that that I can’t discuss here.
Sorry… didnt know that… well, it was worth a try…
Thanx for it Chas.
Now that you are finished with me Solly, I have just one last thing to say to you.
I make 6 figures, married to the mother of my children, and pay more than my fair share of taxes. You will never abolish the welfare system, so stop crying about it. If you don’t want people living with you, kick them out. If the parents are not responsible enough to protect their children, thats not your fault. You don’t like the situation regarding your spousal support? Should have thought about that before you got married. Don’t like how much you pay in child support, should have thought about that before you had kids. I just thought I would share some of your medicine. Have a great day!
Heckler, great link on gun violence above.
I had not seen that study before.
Good read. Thanks.
“You will never abolish the welfare system, so stop crying about it.”
“If you don’t want people living with you, kick them out. If the parents are not responsible enough to protect their children, thats not your fault. You don’t like the situation regarding your spousal support? Should have thought about that before you got married. Don’t like how much you pay in child support, should have thought about that before you had kids.”
Sound like a closet conservative that hides behind socialist banter to –elevate- himself?
A comment on the division of federal retirement (including military) in a divorce. If the retirement is a private pension, etc., it is subject to division by the court in a divorce as a part of property settlement. Why should federal or military retirement be any different? At one time, private plans were subject to division but the federal ones weren’t, by the way.
By the by, I didn’t post these things for pity. I posted these to give the socialists some real life examples of handouts –enabling- people to be lazy, irresponsible, and ride/work the system.
It boils back down to , VT, people getting what they haven’t worked for.
No Solly, the just repeating the con mantra.
You know, the whole everything in life is planned. Conservatives never understand that things in life happen unplanned. Kinda like your divorce. So due to the person’s unfortunate luck, or inability to plan accordingly, they should pay the price. Whatever that price maybe ie: being homeless, starving, etc.. They are considered lazy socialists if they struggle to find employment or become depressed.
Meanwhile, the reich-wingers are filing corporate bankruptcies to get off paying pensions, or just stealing the company blind. This is ok. Why? Because they are capitalists. I see. All that matters is money, and dying with as much as possible. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Bush, you gotta love him (or get thrown out).White House Manual Details How to Deal With Protesters
By Peter BakerWashington Post Staff WriterWednesday, August 22, 2007; A02
Not that they’re worried or anything. But the White House evidently leaves little to chance when it comes to protests within eyesight of the president. As in, it doesn’t want any.
A White House manual that came to light recently gives presidential advance staffers extensive instructions in the art of “deterring potential protestors” from President Bush’s public appearances around the country.
Among other things, any event must be open only to those with tickets tightly controlled by organizers. Those entering must be screened in case they are hiding secret signs. Any anti-Bush demonstrators who manage to get in anyway should be shouted down by “rally squads” stationed in strategic locations. And if that does not work, they should be thrown out.
But that does not mean the White House is against dissent — just so long as the president does not see it. In fact, the manual outlines a specific system for those who disagree with the president to voice their views. It directs the White House advance staff to ask local police “to designate a protest area where demonstrators can be placed, preferably not in the view of the event site or motorcade route.”
The “Presidential Advance Manual,” dated October 2002 with the stamp “Sensitive — Do Not Copy,” was released under subpoena to the American Civil Liberties Union as part of a lawsuit filed on behalf of two people arrested for refusing to cover their anti-Bush T-shirts at a Fourth of July speech at the West Virginia State Capitol in 2004. The techniques described have become familiar over the 6 1/2 years of Bush’s presidency, but the manual makes it clear how organized the anti-protest policy really is.
The lawsuit was filed by Jeffery and Nicole Rank, who attended the Charleston event wearing shirts with the word “Bush” crossed out on the front; the back of his shirt said “Regime Change Starts at Home,” while hers said “Love America, Hate Bush.” Members of the White House event staff told them to cover their shirts or leave, according to the lawsuit. They refused and were arrested, handcuffed and briefly jailed before local authorities dropped the charges and apologized. The federal government settled the First Amendment case last week for $80,000, but with no admission of wrongdoing.
The manual demonstrates “that the White House has a policy of excluding and/or attempting to squelch dissenting viewpoints from presidential events,” said ACLU lawyer Jonathan Miller. “Individuals should have the right to express their opinion to the president, even if it’s not a favorable one.”
White House spokesman Tony Fratto said that he could not discuss the manual because it is an issue in two other lawsuits.
The manual offers advance staffers and volunteers who help set up presidential events guidelines for assembling crowds. Those invited into a VIP section on or near the stage, for instance, must be ” extremely supportive of the Administration,” it says. While the Secret Service screens audiences only for possible threats, the manual says, volunteers should examine people before they reach security checkpoints and look out for signs. Make sure to look for “folded cloth signs,” it advises.
To counter any demonstrators who do get in, advance teams are told to create “rally squads” of volunteers with large hand-held signs, placards or banners with “favorable messages.” Squads should be placed in strategic locations and “at least one squad should be ‘roaming’ throughout the perimeter of the event to look for potential problems,” the manual says.
“These squads should be instructed always to look for demonstrators,” it says. “The rally squad’s task is to use their signs and banners as shields between the demonstrators and the main press platform. If the demonstrators are yelling, rally squads can begin and lead supportive chants to drown out the protestors (USA!, USA!, USA!). As a last resort, security should remove the demonstrators from the event site.”
Advance teams are advised not to worry if protesters are not visible to the president or cameras: “If it is determined that the media will not see or hear them and that they pose no potential disruption to the event, they can be ignored. On the other hand, if the group is carrying signs, trying to shout down the President, or has the potential to cause some greater disruption to the event, action needs to be taken immediately to minimize the demonstrator’s effect.”
The manual adds in bold type: “Remember — avoid physical contact with demonstrators! Most often, the demonstrators want a physical confrontation. Do not fall into their trap!” And it suggests that advance staff should “decide if the solution would cause more negative publicity than if the demonstrators were simply left alone.”
The staff at the West Virginia event may have missed that line.
Posted by: Mike | August 22, 2007 at 11:07 AM
Can you back up these statements you made about me through my posts? If so please do.
“or just stealing the company blind. This is ok.”
‘Uh, no. it is actually illegal.
The reality is that many liberals, or progressibes, or whatever they choose to call themselves, refuse to believe that a great many of those on public assistance, or in low paying jobs, are there of their own accord and decisions.THe other reality is that many conservatives refuse to believe that another great many of those on public assistance, or inlow paying jobs, are there because of factors outside their control.Instead of throwing stones and names at each other, would it not be better to resolve the issue?
Here is one solution, tear it apart all you want.
All persons are entitled to vocational training or two years junior college. If they cannot pay for it, scholarships or work study will be arranged, but they must be allowed the opportunity to do so.BOth day and evening classes will be held, in order to accomodate those who already have jobs.Refusal to enter a training program, or flunking out do to poor attendance without cause, or other “controllable” matters, will result in the loss of government entitlement programs for adults. Period. Minor children of such adults will be fed at government facilities, such as the school. Health care for minor children will be provided at government expense. Just a start
“All persons are entitled to vocational training or two years junior college. If they cannot pay for it, scholarships or work study will be arranged, but they must be allowed the opportunity to do so.”
Michigan has that now. Michigan works will work with people to get their GED. The Gov just passed a bill to give displaced workers 2 years of college free.
As you can see, no one is beating down the doors.
What ridiculous thread. Simplifying an issue as complex as helping the poor as taking from the hard working people and giving “handouts” is so unproductive and callous.
Can we provide free childcare so the mothers can go to work? Other industrialized countries can.
We have billions of dollars to handout for bombs and for tax breaks to Big Oil, but for kids… nahhhhh.
These are complex issues and don’t tell me America can’t find ways to solve these problems with wisdom, compassion, ingenuity.
As far as education goes, sure thing. Help someone out. That isn’t a hand out, that is a tool. A tool to get a job and not need handouts anymore. Apples and oranges.
The problem and difficulty with welfare/handouts/unemployment/etc is in how wide to cast the net of inclusion.Fact: There are people that will abuse ‘handouts’Fact: There are people that will use ‘handouts’ as a legitimate tool to help them get back on their feet.Fact: All societies have citizens that are unable to provide for themselves and never will be able to.Fact: A civilized society today will provide at least the basic necessities to those who cannot provide them for themselves.Fact: Someone has to pay for that. The fruits of one person’s labor will be given to another that did not work for them. (flat rate vs progressive rates are another issue)
Given these parameters, and probably others, it becomes necessary to decide who will get assistance from the Government and for how long. Thus, we must identify who qualifies for a ‘handout’ and who does not. That becomes difficult because of the freeloaders. Sure, people abuse the system, which will always happen.
Are we willing to accept the risk that some freeloaders are in the system for the sake of having a system that includes everyone that should rightfully be included?
Or do we tighten the parameters for receiving ‘handouts’ to ensure there are no freeloaders but with a risk that some people who need assistance may not be able to get it?
My viewpoint on the matter is best explained by the statement ‘I would rather see 1000 guilty men walk free than 1 innocent man in prison.’
(Of course, I would really rather see no guilty men walk free and no innocent men in prison, but this is reality.)
It’s easy to be a Socialist when you are giving away someone else’s money.
Compassion is taking it out of your own wallet.
DavidB–
Great post.
If we spent HALF of what we spend in Iraq to make it safe for Exxon, we could eliminate world hunger.
The people b*tching and moaning about “socialism” don’t seem to have a bit of a problem with socialism for the rich.
Also, Sollie.
If you detest your house guest so much, why don’t you insist that he get a job and get his own place?
It’s like you keep this guy and his family around just so you can trot them out as the “dead-beat welfare class” when you need someone to scapegoat.
A Game as Old as Empire:The Secret World of Economic Hit Men and the Web of Global Corruption
John Perkins’ controversial exposé, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, became an international word-of-mouth sensation and a long-running New York Times bestseller. However, the revelations that John Perkins presented in Confessions of an Economic Hit Man were, actually, only a glimpse into the world of economic hit men. It turns out this secret world is even bigger, deeper, and more sinister than even Perkins knew.
Perkins is now joined by a dozen other economic hit men and investigators, as they go much further in revealing how the EHM game has functioned, and continues to function, in many countries around the world. Through detailed confessions and hard facts and figures, A Game As Old As Empire unearths the truth about what is really going on in the world. Each chapter focuses on a particular case, detailing the methods used to deceive, steal, corrupt, and coerce.
After presenting these particular cases, A Game As Old As Empire connects the dots — showing how the various pieces of this system come together to create the world’s first truly global empire. The book then offers a call to action, explaining what ordinary citizens can do to confront and unravel this destructive network of control.
http://www.globaldialoguecenter.com/collections/john_perkins/index.shtml
Socialism for the rich?
If you can find an example, I’d be interested in applying.
I’m not for one bit of Socialism for anyone.
Also, Sollie.
If you detest your house guest so much, why don’t you insist that he get a job and get his own place?
It’s like you keep this guy and his family around just so you can trot them out as the “dead-beat welfare class” when you need someone to scapegoat.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | August 22, 2007 at 11:58 AM
What an asshole you are. read the rest of the posts idiot.
All the socialists, and all the progessives, and anybody else who wants to can
1) send all the money they wish to the irs. There is no maximimum
2) Spend as much money to Feed and house and clothe all the poor they wish.
All else is wanting to take someone elses money, to give out as somo other person sees fit.
If you make poor decisions, and are given an opportunity to rectify the consequences of that decision, and you refuse, then you can stay in whatever hell that decision causes.I will, and have, given direct help to those who choose to try and rectify their bad decisions. I have, will continue, to try and provide an opportunity for those who see no way out, to have a way out. If they choose another path, let them. Let them also suffer the conseqauence.
“Economic hit men,” John Perkins writes, “are highly paid professionals who cheat countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars. Their tools include fraudulent financial reports, rigged elections, payoffs, extortion, sex, and murder.”
John Perkins should know—he was an economic hit man. His job was to convince countries that are strategically important to the U.S.—from Indonesia to Panama—to accept enormous loans for infrastructure development, and to make sure that the lucrative projects were contracted to U. S. corporations. Saddled with huge debts, these countries came under the control of the United States government, World Bank and other U.S.-dominated aid agencies that acted like loan sharks—dictating repayment terms and bullying foreign governments into submission.
This extraordinary real-life tale exposes international intrigue, corruption, and little-known government and corporate activities that have dire consequences for American democracy and the world.
http://www.economichitman.com/confessions/confessions.htm
THE INSIDE STORY OF HOW AMERICA BUILT AN EMPIRE ON THIRD-WORLD DEBT
(CSRwire) SAN FRANCISCO – “Economic hit men,” John Perkins writes in his controversial new book, “are highly paid professionals who cheat countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars. Their tools include fraudulent financial reports, rigged elections, payoffs, extortion, sex, and murder. They play a game as old as Empire but one that has taken on terrifying dimensions during this time of globalization.”
John Perkins should know about economic hit men–he was covertly recruited by the U.S. National Security Agency to be one. For years, he worked for an international consulting firm where his job was to convince underdeveloped countries to accept enormous loans, much larger than what was really needed, for infrastructure development–and to make sure that the development projects were then contracted to U. S. multinationals. Once these countries were saddled with huge debts, the American government and the international aid agencies allied with it were able, by dictating repayment terms, to essentially control their economies. It was not unlike the way a loan shark operates–and Perkins and his colleagues didn’t shun this kind of unsavory association. In fact, they even referred to themselves as “economic hit men.”
This is a story of international political intrigue at the highest levels. For over a decade, Perkins traveled all over the world–Indonesia, Panama, Ecuador, Columbia, Saudi Arabia, Iran–and worked with men like Panamanian president Omar Torrijos, who became a personal friend. In 1974, he helped to implement a secret scheme that funneled billions of Saudi petrodollars back into the U. S. economy, and that further cemented the intimate relationship between the Islamic fundamentalist House of Saud and a succession of American administrations. Perkins’ story illuminates just how far economic hit men were willing to go, and unveils the real causes of some of the most dramatic developments in recent history, such as the fall of the Shah of Iran and the invasions of Panama and Iraq.
Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, which many people urged Perkins not to write, is a blistering attack on?and exposé of?the little known inner workings of both government and corporate policies that have fostered globalization and led to the impoverishment of untold millions of people across the planet. It is a story that will increase the reader’s understanding of why so many people in so many countries hate America and what is has come to stand for.
http://www.csrwire.com/PressRelease.php?id=3542
The end result of his EHM successes resulted in the funnelling of vast amounts of wealth to his corporate masters, and to the corrupt and elite people in positions of power in the countries he had signed deals with. Those governments he failed to persuade were targeted for assasinations and coups fomented by the covert operatives he refers to as “jackals”.
Eventually, he resigned his EHM job and moved on in life. After expressing his intention to write about the activities of his former profession, he was alternately threatened and bribed to stay silent. After the events of 9/11, John Perkins felt that his story must be told, whatever the personal consequences. He wrote Confessions of an Economic Hit Man in secret, and after being rejected by every mainstream publisher, finally found a smaller publisher who was willing to risk it.
If you have not read his books, I highly recommend that you do so. The Secret History of the American Empire is just hitting bookstores. It picks up where Confessions left off, and ends on an optimistic note with suggestions about what each of us can do to begin to set things right.
Everyone I know who reads Confessions is profoundly affected to learn of the extent of the global political/corporate corruption described. Most of us sort-of know that the goods we buy at Wal-Mart, other big-box retailers, and malls are produced by people who are little more than virtual slaves working and living in squalid and inhumane conditions, but seldom is anyone in-your-face with proof of it. If this is not a wake-up call, I don’t know what will move people to take action, and make changes in their buying habits. The expose of Nike factories is particularly heartbreaking, and they are just an example of the horrendous conditions in most third-world factories producing goods for the U.S. market.
http://heartlanddiaryofbettyb.blogspot.com/2007/06/confessions-of-economic-hit-man.html
Same ole same ole with Capn. Make a stupid statement, post scroll over, hope it goes away.
Max–
The Iraq War is socialism for the rich.
We spend 2 billion a week to control Iraqi oil. This benefits huge multinational oil companies who of course made historically high profits ever since we invaded.
What part of “war for oil” do you not get?
CapnPlease save your time in trying to communicate with Solly on this topic. I have been in a futile argument with him all morning.
His views are simple. Anything bad that happens ie: losing a job, closing a business, divorce,unplanned pregnancies, or simply falling on hard times is the person’s fault and nobody elses. Its up to that person to fix his problem, and asking for assistance is weak and lazy. Anyone that receives assistance is a lazy socialist that doesn’t deserve to be spit on.
Corporate welfare is ok. Because they are capitalists. Companies that file bankruptcy so that they can weasle out of pensions are ok. Company executives that loot employees retirement funds and cause great harm to those that work for them are ok.
But at the same time if someone has an unplanned pregnancy they should not have the right to terminate the pregnancy even if they cannot afford it. They need to have that child and they had better not ask for gov’t assistance to care for the child. Hypocrisy? Nah. Personal responsibility.
Sol–
Kick ‘em out or quit yer bitchin’.
Your choice.
Thanks, Mike.
You summed it up perfectly.
The great socialist Capn. Kick them out on the street. What a great way to serve mankind.
Once again Mike, please post my statements that lead you to labeling me as you have. I am especially curious as to the corporate hand outs. That one will be fun.
Doesn’t most of the income tax go to pay for the military something like 40% of the federal budget, followed closely by paying down interest on the National debt.
I’m all for reducing welfare recipients, but the government isn’t going to save huge amounts of money welfare programs are 1% of budget granted 1% of the 1.2 trillion the Feds take in is a alot.
the liberals talk about ending world hunger, well thats easy end all agri subsidies, i find it ironic that cons will bitch about single moms getting food stamps but are silent and welfare that farmers get, or airline execs, other big biz.but farm subidies hurt third world farmers who cant compete against fat cat welfare farmers.
you really want to lift Americans out of poverty eliminate the income tax and don’t replace it with a sales tax.you reduce government spending eliminate agencies and depts that aren’t necessary for the government to work.
Thanks, Mike.You summed it up perfectly.Posted by: CapnAmerica | August 22, 2007 at 12:14 PM
Then capn, I extend the invitation to you as well.
“Corporate welfare is ok. Because they are capitalists. Companies that file bankruptcy so that they can weasle out of pensions are ok. Company executives that loot employees retirement funds and cause great harm to those that work for them are ok.”
Please show me where anyone on this blog, including SOl, has advocated this position
“The people b*tching and moaning about “socialism” don’t seem to have a bit of a problem with socialism for the rich.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | August 22, 2007 at 11:53 AM ”
Sorry Capn, I have a problem with both.
Typical bull$hit socialists. When faced with real world examples of hand outs hurting more than helping – on to the liberal talking points.
So instead of all these talking points, why not address the two real life issues before you?
Sol writes, “What really burns my a$$ about government service retirement is when the Gov’t takes away from it. Now damn it if you told someone if you work for us for x years, you will receive y benefits. Don’t you dare screw with y so that you can fund some damn socialist program!!!”
Or how about when the gov’t screws pensioners so they can fund some damn war?
“money welfare programs are 1% of budget”
Please substantiate this
Tom P,
End subsidies? Damn straight. Start off with corn. Corn for ethanol and corn for foreign countries. Follow up with subsidies for alternative energy. Demand will take (and is taking) care of that.
If this is what you mean by corporate welfare Mike, you missed by a country mile. Bet that isn’t new for you though is it?
“you really want to lift Americans out of poverty eliminate the income tax and don’t replace it with a sales tax.you reduce government spending eliminate agencies and depts that aren’t necessary for the government to work.”Posted by: Tom Paine | August 22, 2007 at 12:17 PM
AMEN HALLELUJAHPRAISE GOD
Ya hit that one outta the park Tom P
RON PAUL 2008
Or how about when the gov’t screws pensioners so they can fund some damn war?
Posted by: CapnAmerica | August 22, 2007 at 12:22 PM
Samie same capn. If you earned it, you keep it. Pure and simple.
Sol, if you know you house guests are committing fraud are you breaking the law by not reporting them, accessory to fraud, fraud by proxy. Make them pay rent or kick them out. you kept preaching the responsibility mantra on the tiller thread allowing deadbeats to sponge off you doesn’t seem to be very responsible, complaining about how you lost your pension and have to pay child support, well getting divorced isn’t very responsible either.
Or how about when the gov’t screws pensioners so they can fund some damn war?
Posted by: CapnAmerica | August 22, 2007 at 12:22 PM
What pensioners are being screwed by the Government?
If you build a business from scratch. Go through immeasurably hard times to build it. After years of blood sweat and tears. Now you employ several people and you are earning 100,000 per year.
You shouldn’t have that much money, so let’s take 50% and give it to someone who never really tried.Posted by: SolDevVB | August 22, 2007 at 07:47 AM
This should buy you the right to loot the company and file bankruptcy. Therefore, eliminating your part of the employees pension. This is the mindset of those that do exactly as I have described. Just as Solly doesn’t have facts or websites to prove his claim that all welfare receipients are lazy, I make this statement. Don’t like it? Too bad. I am starting to like this con way of communicating.
What part of “war for oil” do you not get?
Posted by: CapnAmerica | August 22, 2007 at 12:12 PM
So stop using oil Capn, and we won’t need to be in the mideast, according to your theory.
“Sol, if you know you house guests are committing fraud are you breaking the law by not reporting them”
What fraud have they committed?
“you kept preaching the responsibility mantra on the tiller thread allowing deadbeats to sponge off you doesn’t seem to be very responsible,”
And the alternative is to put them in possible danger. Would you do the same to family?
“complaining about how you lost your pension”Please post where I said this.
“well getting divorced isn’t very responsible either.”
Can you please explain how getting a divorce is irresponsible? She is a miserable woman that makes everyone miserable around her. Responsibility would be to –stick it out- and be miserable? Seems to me that getting on with life WAS the responsible thing to do. If you see otherwise, please explain.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/Test030701b.cfm
As usual, this discussion of “welfare” is long on outrage and short on facts.
Here’s an article from the CONservative Heritage Foundation that tries to show that “welfare” is exploding.
However, if you look closely at the graph provided, you can see that more than HALF of the costs of welfare are for medical care.
Gee, it couldn’t be that medical care is just too damn expensive in this country or anything could it?
When you look at just the “cash, food, and housing” costs, you see that it’s only about 150 billion a year. That’s about half of what we’ve spent in Iraq so far . . .
If I stop using oil, Max, it wouldn’t make a damn bit of difference.
“This should buy you the right to loot the company and file bankruptcy. Therefore, eliminating your part of the employees pension. This is the mindset of those that do exactly as I have described.”
Much is made here on this blog about unsubstantiated claims. Yours is stillunsubstantiated. Your last post is just smoke to cover up that you made up a claim and characterization about someone else. Plain and simple—BULLSHIT is all it was. ANd you know it. You either are too stubborn, to indoctrinated, or just too damn dishonest to admit it. Oh, I made a characterization, unsubstantiated. “Don;t Like it? Too bad.”
You philosophy. Not mine.
“This should buy you the right to loot the company and file bankruptcy. Therefore, eliminating your part of the employees pension.”
And whom, pray tell, is advocating this line of thinking?
“Just as Solly doesn’t have facts or websites to prove his claim that all welfare receipients are lazy,”
You’d have to be pretty good to get a poll together of people honestly telling you they are lazy and milking the system. You say that, your free ride is over. Are you really this dumb Mike?
I don’t have web sites nor polls. I have real world examples. Huh. Real world vs. Poll. Mike picks poll. Great choice Mike.
Government spending
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104655.html
More government spendinghttp://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873746.html
Hmm. Social spending seems to be a bit above one percent.
http://www.nida.nih.gov/EconomicCosts/Table6_10.html
According to this graph, the total costs for “welfare” was about 200 billion.
The costs for military for that year was about 300 billion. That doesn’t include military pensions, military medical costs, or payment on the interest of debt incurred on behalf of the military.
So 200 billion to hand outs. 300 billion to the men and women defending our country. Sounds like the soldiers are getting ripped off.
Great point Capn. Take 150 billion in welfare handouts and give it to our military.
I’m starting to like the way you think Capn. Not as much of a socialist as I thought.
According to this graph, the total costs for “welfare” was about 200 billion.
The costs for military for that year was about 300 billion. That doesn’t include military pensions, military medical costs, or payment on the interest of debt incurred on behalf of the military.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | August 22, 2007 at 12:46 PM
Your point being?
The point would seem obvious… The actual military cost is MUCH more than the 300 billion…
I do believe that the 1% figure is one I have heard many times for the Budget percentage of Welfare spending… It could be as much as 2%… But not more than that, I believe… IIRC
Much is made here on this blog about unsubstantiated claims. Yours is stillunsubstantiated. Your last post is just smoke to cover up that you made up a claim and characterization about someone else. Plain and simple—BULLSHIT is all it was. ANd you know it. You either are too stubborn, to indoctrinated, or just too damn dishonest to admit it. Oh, I made a characterization, unsubstantiated. “Don;t Like it? Too bad.”
You philosophy. Not mine.
Posted by: littlejohn | August 22, 2007 at 12:37 PM
LJYou can kiss my a** with your tongue out. The constant insults to my intelligence, I am suppose to live with?
Solly just wants to bitch about his houseguests outstaying their welcome. Poor you! Because Solly knows a couple of lazy asses, he gets on his soap box and preaches to the rest of us. As long as we live in a capitalistic society you will have poor people. These are the folks that manage fast food restaurants and work in factories etc.. So do us all a favor and get over yourself. Realize that it takes ALL kinds to make our society work. Not just middle class, and those of us lucky enough to be in the 1% that make over 100k per year.
do believe that the 1% figure is one I have heard many times for the Budget percentage of Welfare spending… It could be as much as 2%… But not more than that, I believe… IIRC
Posted by: Chas. | August 22, 2007 at 12:52 PM
All you have to do is look it up. ! percent, even 2 percent, is way off the mark. You have been misled.
LJYou can kiss my a** with your tongue out
No. you’d like it too much. WOw, can;t back up your claim so you attack. BFD.
Tom P,
Nathan made the remark about pensions. VT confirmed, and I made one about my Dad’s pension. No harm no foul.
“is why i don’t get married”
I tell you what, except for having my wonderful son, that marriage was the worst mistake of my life. Had I known what would happen (and if I could somehow still have my son) I never would have done it.
I am now with quite possibly the best woman in the world. Yah just gotta be REAL careful. Been together 7 years. I think marriage might just work out with her.
The legal system (as far as divorce and custody go) is assuredly screwed. Not much we can do about it though. Sexism in the courts hasn’t been a national issue.
Anyway, even if you don’t get married, hope you find a wonderful partner to share your life.
OK — Time Out for a minute…
We dont know all of Sol’s story here… ON the surface of things, he doesnt just want to put these family members out on the street…
On the other hand, he really shouldnt be forced to take care of their needs, provided they are able to work…
And then, again, there is the issue of how much support and/or alimony he is paying… which sounds like a WHOLE bunch…
There are several issues….
First are the family members living with him, and being unemployed, and apparently not terribly interested in improving their situation….
At some point, Sol, you really need to come to a decision… If it hurts, then it’s probably what is called “Tough Love” And as hard as that is, at times, sometimes thats the only way…
At least give a deadline of some sort, to give YOU some relief…
As to the support/alimony matter, that would seem to be a legal matter best dealt with between you and your attorney… or some form of legal advisor… If your EX can take summers off, then you may well have a good reason to ask for some kind of judicial review of the Case….
As I told you earlier, I feel for you… as I said, been there done that a few times… Had to tell my youngest to “get a life” a few years ago… she did, remarkably, and is now doing pretty good for herself…. AT this point, I am proud of her… At that time, I was fairly pissed at her… Hopefully, you can work this out, so that you can be proud of them later down the line… Meanwhile, Tough Love could be your best bet… And I know ALL too well, that it really does HURT…
“As long as we live in a capitalistic society”Posted by: Mike | August 22, 2007 at 12:54 PM
There you have it. Mike is admittedly socialist (or communist – which is it Mike). There are a couple of countries that support your views Mike. Why not try those on for size?
Chas,
Putting family out on the street doesn’t bode well with me. Supporting them for close to 2 months doesn’t either. Rock and a hard place.
So our plan of attack is to make things increasingly uncomfortable. The wife works and kind of holds the reigns. She doesn’t deal well with pressure and HATES that she lives off of someone. So slow and steady, we work on that to ‘help motivate’ the husband.
The child support is a fact I have to deal with. The amount is large to me and a pittance to others. I only brought it up to combat a ‘dead-beat-dad’ reference WAY up stream.
Buddy I make too much money to leave. I am not the bitching. YOU ARE! I love capitalism. But my Christian upbringing tells me to care for the poor. Yours must tell you to f*** em. Let them fight it out.
Why don’t you send those deadbeats that live in your house to live with LJ? This way you could cry to each other. You could cry about how much your ex takes. And he could cry about how lazy his houseguests are. Then we would all be happy because we wouldn’t have to listen to your complaining here.
“So our plan of attack is to make things increasingly uncomfortable.”
=============
This plan is a type of the Tough Love I mentioned before… But you really have to put parameters on it, and timelines… It CAN work well… And if you stick with it, you will be OK…
“LJ? This way you could cry to each other. You could cry about how much your ex takes. And he could cry about how lazy his houseguests are.”
What in the hell are you talking about? I offered facts, I offered solutions, I have not offerd whining.. YOu just offer attacks. Wowl I am impressed. NOT!
Your opinion matters none LJ. You stuck your nose into a discussion that was over. You wanted to add your two cents, so you did. Now move along!
“Yours must tell you to f*** em. Let them fight it out.Why don’t you send those deadbeats that live in your house to live with LJ? “
Do you not see the asinine contradiction of your own statements?
http://www.federalbudget.com/
Mike, you are one confused puppy. You state that you love capitalism, then say it creates poor. So you enjoy creating poor people.
You stump that you want to give other people money, then advocate putting people out on the streets homeless.
What the hell are you smoking???
Your opinion matters none LJ. You stuck your nose into a discussion that was over. You wanted to add your two cents, so you did. Now move along!
Posted by: Mike | August 22, 2007 at 01:11 PM
It’s a free country bub, and a free blog. I can state my opinion anytime and anywhere I wish. You are not the blog manager. Sorry.
Mike, you are one confused puppy. You state that you love capitalism, then say it creates poor. So you enjoy creating poor people.Posted by: SolDevVB | August 22, 2007 at 01:14 PM
Please post where I stated that I enjoy creating poor people.
“Buddy I make too much money to leave.”“I love capitalism.”Posted by: Mike | August 22, 2007 at 01:06 PM
“As long as we live in a capitalistic society you will have poor people.”Posted by: Mike | August 22, 2007 at 12:54 PM
Done.Now see how easy that was Mike?
It’s a free country bub, and a free blog. I can state my opinion anytime and anywhere I wish. You are not the blog manager. Sorry.Posted by: littlejohn | August 22, 2007 at 01:15 PM
Please remember this for your own records.
It’s a free country bub, and a free blog. I can state my opinion anytime and anywhere I wish. You are not the blog manager. Sorry.Posted by: littlejohn | August 22, 2007 at 01:15 PM
Please remember this for your own records.
Posted by: Mike | August 22, 2007 at 01:19 PM
don;t know what the point is, but sure, I’ll remember it. Glad to.
Does that say that I like to create poor poeple? The statement is as long as we live in a capitalistic society, poor people will exist. Thats a fact. You are the one that does not want to provide any assistance to them. Thats the issue at hand, do we care for the poor or do we call them lazy and spit on them. I say care…..you say spit. You are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. But I have a strong feeling that if you didn’t have a family living with you, this wouldn’t be an issue.
Please post where I stated that I enjoy creating poor people.
Posted by: Mike | August 22, 2007 at 01:15 PM
“Buddy I make too much money to leave.”“I love capitalism.”Posted by: Mike | August 22, 2007 at 01:06 PM
“As long as we live in a capitalistic society you will have poor people.”Posted by: Mike | August 22, 2007 at 12:54 PM
Seems pretty straight forward there Mike. Sorry your own statements offend you.
I have never supported handouts or welfare.
Capitalism seems, by its very nature, to require that there be differing levels of economic wealth or poverty within a society… Sort of demands a lower class, and an upper class…
As long as we provide some sort of “relief” system for the poor, preferrably NOT with taxes… the Capitalist system works pretty good… IT fails terribly when greed, power, and class hatred come into play…
One of the better examples of this situation can be seen in a number of the works of Charles Dickens.. Oliver Twist, and A Christmas Carol, to name two…
The New Testament seems to have begun with a picture of the earliest Church, where nobody owned anything of their own, but put into some sort of large pool of funds/resources, and each was able to draw from the common pool according to their need… (Acts 2 & 4)
This didnt last too long… Greed and power took over that system as well… Many of the worlds’ best known revolutions and reformations have come about over struggles between “class systems” in society… Rome, Hapsburgs(and even WW I), French Revolution, Boxer Rebellion, Mao Tse Tung, so many others…
How will we solve class struggles??? Maybe we cant… Maybe it is the nature of human beings… I personally feel it is something in the human psyche, that is constantly in a struggle for position and power… It would seem to stem from the most ancient of societal systems… The Tribal System…
Amazingly, that is what much of the Iraqi War, and the Afghanistan scenario, and the Somaila issues, and even Darfur… are all about at the base ROOT of any of those issues…
Western nations like to think that we are beyond “tribal groupings” but are we really??? I tend to think NOT… But, with Constitutional governments, we at least take a stab at it… at least officially… on paper…
Just a few thoughts…
Thank you Chas for being able to see my point. There is no gray with the reich wing. Its poor and rich, black and white, kill them there before they kill us here mentality that makes them unbearable. Find one abuser then they are all abusers. Such crap.
One abuser? I gave you two – real world even – not from polls ;-> and have a few more in mind. So it would seem that abusers become the rule and not the exception.
Poor and rich? I am neither. So that blows that one out of the water too.
Corporate welfare? Hell no to that one too.
It would seem Mike that you stand on unfounded generalities. Not a very stable stance is it?
Capitalism seems, by its very nature, to require that there be differing levels of economic wealth or poverty within a society… Sort of demands a lower class, and an upper class…
As long as we provide some sort of “relief” system for the poor, preferrably NOT with taxes… the Capitalist system works pretty good… IT fails terribly when greed, power, and class hatred come into play…
Please read slowly and carefully Solly. Chas makes alot of sense and explains how I feel about welfare. Long and short, its a necessary evil or you will have war between the social classes.
Mike, I think Sol recognizes a degree of gray areas… He is between a rock and a hard place currently, which tends to make anybody a bit defensive with many things in life…
I really dont think this is a matter of Capitalistic Vs. Socialistic… This is at the heaart of the human existential reality…. Some folks go through this kind of thing a lot more than others… Some never do go through it… Others seem to never get out of it… Thats quite a sliding scale… But, it is a real one…
And, in recent years, we really HAVE seen a diminishing return for what used to be known as the Middle Class… I dont have solutions for that shrinkage… I refer to my mention of “tribalistic tendencies” upthread… Thats about as good as I can come up with… It’s been a Century or more since the charitable groups in the world sort of abdicated on their charity, and turned things over more and more to “government” to handle… I think that was probably a wrong move for the charities to make… I still do…
When hospitals were run by churches, there was always room for charity, since Profit making wasnt the Mission of the institution… As soon as Profit becomes a goal of a hospital, or even a “shelter” facility, the entire direction changes…
Tough stuff here today… You might want to check on some of the books written on what was once called The Social Gospel…
The leader of that movement in the late 19th/early 20th century was:Walter Rauschenbusch (1861-1918)a Baptist minister among the poor and the industrial workers of New York city.
I wonder why it is that every time I am on this Blog, my email address gets a TON of Porno Email ads??? Anybody think the Blog could be hacked by Porn Advertisers???
It’s happening again.
http://foxattacks.com/iran
Chas
Maybe it’s because you have a Typekey/Pad account?
Great link, KSCdude.
Unequivocal proof that Fox News is the Goebellian propaganda wing of this administration.
But don’t worry, Bush won’t invade Iran until right before the ‘08 elections.
Can you define the welfare you support? Checks?
I am all for giving people tools to better themselves. They either use them and –make it- or choose not too and flounder. But let them flounder on their own dime.
If they are working to better themselves or their situation, then by God help them out. Otherwise they need to be off support.
Giving someone a check and expecting nothing in return (even the betterment of themselves and their situation) is futile and wasteful at its best. At its worst, you have the two cases presented above.
So in short? Spit on them? Nope. Help them help themselves.
Hand them a check? What you offer sir is worse than spitting on them.
Now now guys…Should we call the blog mommy to make everyone behave?
Sol–
You are aware that Clinton signed into law a provision that adult welfare recipients can only collect welfare for two years, right?
Whipping up outrage over “welfare queens” is so Reagan-era, dude . . .
That’s all good and well Sol, but you can’t FORCE someone to hire you. It’s so interesting to me that all these republican business owners complain about welfare and people living off disability, but they’re also the last ones who want to hire these people.
I believe in capitolism. I also believe in Charity. I also believe in not getting something for nothing, and improving oneself, even if it means sacrifice and working your ass off.My father once took a job that paid less than the “cash assistance” or welfar, that he was gettting at the tjme. WHy? 1) Because he knew that after a period of time, he would be be better paid, and better off 2) because he has enough pride not to live off the work of others. BOth viewpoints ar sorely lacking these days. I grew up in a house with no plumbed toilet. It was a frigging case over a 5 gallon bucket. It wasn;t the best, but we got by until we could do better.We agot a newer house when I got older. Unfortunately, there were many other “problems” with the houise that I will not identify. Still, it was an incremental step. I went one year to college, worked my way thourgh. Then the military. Then held a full time job, raised a family, when Ifinished college–at night. Nobody said life was easy, or a handlut. I have been fired, I have been laid off. I have travelled halfway across the naiton without my family7 for a job. I have been bankrupt due to my son;s medical bills, and I have been comfortable. In other words, I have lived life, as many others have. Among many of life lessons, I learned that Broke is a condition. Poor is an attitude.There are many less fortunate than me. I will, and have, those who are willing to help themselves. I have, and am willing, to try and help others to see that they can help themsleves. If they cannot, or will not, i feel no obligation to giving them anyghing. They are not entitled.
You are aware that Clinton signed into law a provision that adult welfare recipients can only collect welfare for two years, right?Posted by: CapnAmerica | August 22, 2007 at 02:12 PM
You really don’t read the posts do you? Try it one time. You might make less of an ass of yourself.
So . . . that’s a “yes” then.
Thank you, SolDevVB.
It’s been a Century or more since the charitable groups in the world sort of abdicated on their charity, and turned things over more and more to “government” to handle… I think that was probably a wrong move for the charities to make… I still do…
When hospitals were run by churches, there was always room for charity, since Profit making wasnt the Mission of the institution… As soon as Profit becomes a goal of a hospital, or even a “shelter” facility, the entire direction changes
Posted by: Chas. | August 22, 2007 at 01:44 PM
Chas. I have to agree. I think it was well intentioned, but poorly thought out, to let the government take over charity.—–
“But my Christian teachings tell me to care for the poor. Yours must tell you to f*** em.”
I get that comment a lot as a Libertarian. All Christian teachings instruct believers to care for the poor. However that is a goal, not a methodology.
Where to you get the resources to ‘care’? Do you dig into your own pocket? Do you dig into your neighbor’s pocket?
When you advocate using taxes for support of the ‘care’, you are digging into your neighbor’s pocket. I missed the commandment “Take from your neighbor to do My works”.
Maybe you should read upthread ProudMan. I expressed my thoughts on caring for the poor up there.
Where in your Bible does it say to turn your back on those in need?
I read plenty.
I did not say to turn your back on those in need.
I said don’t take from your neighbor, even if you are doing the Lord’s work.
Please explain to me ProudMan how I am taking money from my neighbors? This mentality could be applied to many social programs or schools or emergency services etc.. We all pay taxes(some more than others)this money should be used WISELY. If some want to use it for educating those on welfare, then great. If they want to use it to track down dead beat parents that do not pay child support, then fine. But the premise that all that are on welfare are lazy, socialists, I take exception to that.
By advocating using taxes to get the resources needed to perform the service, you are advocating taking from your neighbor.
Some level of taxation is necessary. As you said it is all in how it is used. What one would call wise, another would call wasteful.
This difference is a key reason why private charities are better for society than government charity. Let citizens set-up organizations as they see fit to set their own rules for giving. Some would be more less demanding of those helped than others. However, when you use government to do the charity work you do many less desirable things.
1. You move the giver away from the charitable process. Each individual has little say in how the money is spent and becomes callous to the problems, expecting the tax money to simply solve it.
2. Centralizing the process only builds a power central entity. Which is ripe for corruption.
3. When running low on funds the private charities either adapt, find new revenue streams, or close. An organization living on tax money generally only looks to increase the single revenue stream. It has little incentive to ever adapt.
This list goes on.
I encourage everyone who does things for the ‘Christian Reason’ to apply Christ’s teachings to all facets of the activity, not just the goal.
Uh Oh……
Clark – So long farewell auvertersein good nite!
And don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!
Check this out:
http://www.conflictblotter.com/
stupid, arrogant republi-nazis always think they’ve “won” an argument. the grandma from hell is a bitter lying old hag. max is a goebbels wannabe to name a few.
Sieg Heil MeinFuhrer Shrub!
See ya wooss. wouldn’t wanna be ya.
“When are you going to admit that you lied about the attack on the USS Cole?”
Put your reading glasses on or take another toke wooss. You can’t even read the posts.
You put it out there. Leave the blog forever. Hog monkey.
Such unnecessary, over the top confrontation…somethings never change. No wonder we can’t put an end to war..too many who only care about being right and convincing others that they’re wrong. What a waste of time.
Why don’t you BOTH shut up and quit wasting space with your immature, silly tirades?
Clark, here’s a nice link for you that you might want to consider clicking on and reviewing.
http://www.unitedwayplains.org/211kansas/sedgwick/Anger%20Management%20Resources.pdf
It’s a wonderful day in the neighborhood…..
i agree with Mary. Seriously. Enough.
Too bad this wasn’t done 4 years ago:
WASHINGTON – Senior career diplomats are retaking control of key elements of U.S. foreign policy and have begun to assert significant influence as the Bush administration enters its waning months eager to salvage a legacy marred by the Iraq war.
ADVERTISEMENTSince assuming the helm at the State Department in 2005, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has installed veteran foreign service officers with more than 200 years of collective diplomatic experience in seven critical posts from the Middle East to South Asia and the Far East.
By contrast, their immediate predecessors had just 72 years of combined experience and five of them were Republican political operatives with limited or no background in diplomacy, according to an Associated Press survey of senior agency appointees.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070822/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_diplomatic_push
Too little too late..the damage is done.
“Thousands of Massachusetts children from low-income families could be denied health insurance under new rules imposed by the Bush administration late last week. The rules could cut federal matching funds for a state-run program that is a key component of the state’s health insurance initiative.http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/08/22/children_may_lose_out_on_insurance/
You just gotta love those “compassionate conservatives”! Always ready to kick somebody when they’re down.Good thing children can’t vote, lol!”
The Republicans only care about children before they are born. They love fetuses! They hate children. They also hate clean water, clean air, puppies and all kinds of other things considered “liberal”.
Ok I have a question about that. It doesn’t say HOW exactly Bush could singlehandedly put up rules that blocks these kids from enrolling. How exactly did that work?
While I agree that poorer kids need to come first, 250% of the poverty line isn’t squat. They’re still very flipping poor.
Hurt the working families the most, as always.
Whatever.
Whatever.
Whatever.
“You tend to forget the 10-13 times that Clinton had close surveillance of Bin Laden and did nothing.”
Not true it was 2-3 times, and circumstances warranteed not taking action. Much like we just don’t march into Pakistan now and route him out
From the article, the 4,500 or so children involved are those in the income layer 250% to 300% of the poverty level. Apparently the horrid Bush administration wants to make sure the lower income levels are being effectively enrolled in the program before extending it past the 250% level.
Pmom I find it ironic that you were right beside him yesterday calling me a liar until I showed you how wrong you were. I would like nothing better than to be able to have a debate about the issues without the name calling. Calling people stupid, liars, dishonest, fundies, making fun of their Christian faith, ridiculing those who don’t agree with you – I think you get the picture. We can disagree without letting it get personal and that was what I tried to do yesterday. You and WS kept it up until well into the night and now ‘you agree with Mary that we should shut up’.
Well I agree. Lets do it. Now why don’t you clue WS in. And yes I did call him a name he didn’t like. He dishes all the time but has a low tolerance for taking it back at him.
He is on Nathan everyday. Goes after Hank and many others on a regular basis.
Truce.
All I can say is this- I will so goddamn glad when 2008 gets here and the END of the con era arrives. Bury their agenda along with their God Reagan who is taking the maggot nap. Hopefully more Republicans will join him.
Well it looks like Michael Vick is going to pay for OJ Simpson’s murder spree. Never in my life did I think anybody would make a literal federal case out of dogfighting. White people in the south have been fighting dogs, pigs and roosters for years and still do and they don’t go to federal prison for it. In fact they rarely ever go to jail for it. But I guess the good old Republicans are still seething about OJ getting away with killing white folks so they gotta nail Vick to the cross for it.
ROFLMAO!
Kev defending a dog killer!
Could this have anything to do with the high gas cost?Oil giants hit with U.S. gas price-fixing lawsuit 2 hours, 48 minutes ago
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) – A group of California gasoline station owners filed suit in U.S. federal district court in San Francisco accusing three oil industry giants of fixing gasoline prices across the United States from 1998 to 2001.
ADVERTISEMENTThe suit filed on Tuesday claims that Texaco — now owned by Chevron Corp. (CVX.N) — and U.S. units of state-owned Saudi Aramco of Saudi Arabia and of Royal Dutch Shell Plc (RDSa.L) colluded to set gasoline sold to 23,000 Texaco and Shell stations at artificially high prices. Chevron is named as a defendant because it took over Texaco.
The suit is similar to one filed in 2004 by California gasoline station owners. That case was dismissed last year by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Plaintiffs’ attorney Joseph M. Alioto of San Francisco said the top U.S. court rejected the former case because it sought to prove only that the three corporations agreed to fix prices. This time, Alioto said, he and his fellow attorneys will attempt to prove unfair competition laws were broken.
“All of this started at the Masters Golf Tournament,” Alioto told Reuters on Wednesday. “The guy from Shell got a brainstorm while he was watching the pros hit those pebbled balls around and called the CEO of Texaco.”
Heads of Shell Oil, Texaco and Saudi Refining began meeting monthly in 1996, the lawsuit says.
By late 1997, Shell and Texaco were ready to form an alliance but the Saudi representative was not, Alioto said, so Shell and Texaco in January 1998 formed Equilon to refine crude oil and to sell gasoline in 32 states, mainly in the U.S. West and Midwest.
By mid-1998, Alioto claims, the Saudis joined with Shell and Texaco and the three formed Motiva for refining crude and selling gasoline in 27 states, mainly in the U.S. Gulf Coast region and the eastern U.S.
The suit asks for class-action status. Some stations lost $10,000 or more a month because of what he alleged were practices that raised prices by cutting competition.
On Wednesday, Shell Oil representative Sarah Andreani said that Shell, Equilon and Motiva were “carefully and extensively reviewed by the (U.S.) Federal Trade Commission and by several state attorneys general prior to their formation — and earlier this year, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld a decision that neither Shell nor the joint ventures violated any antitrust law.”
In 1998, at a time when U.S. crude oil prices dipped to $10 a barrel — they are near $70 now — gasoline prices at Texaco and Shell stations rose.
“With inflation taken into account, in 1998, oil prices were at their lowest since The Depression,” said Alioto. “Both Shell and Texaco (by their U.S. alliance) had substantially reduced their costs.
“In the face of these economic factors, they agreed to raise the prices” for gasoline, Alioto said.
No hearing date has been set.
The period covered by the suit starts with the forming of Equilon in early 1998 and in mid-1998 of Motiva. It ends with the merger of Chevron and Texaco in October 2001.
Texaco sold off its shares in the Equilon and Motiva to satisfy federal regulators when it merged with Chevron.
If the dog didn’t bit, you have to acquit!
Yes Kev, it was RACIST to convict Vick of Dog Killing!
“An examination of your records may be necessary in order to resolve our concerns about yourorganization’s possible political campaign intervention.”. . . Marsha A. Ramirez, director of examinations for the IRS, in a letter to Wichita’s Spirit One Christian Center, addressing the tax-exempt organization’s prominent pro-life activities[Got to wonder, where's the IRS audit of Tiller's criminal abortion mill and underhanded dealings with second quack Neuhaus, not to mention secretive funding of leftist Kansas bureaucrats? And since when is advocating the preservation of human life purely political?]
Boycott Lowe’s Home Improvement store in Wichita, for supplying building materials to Tiller’s abortion mill, in the fight against the vandals’ onslaught of mold and mildew.
How many dogs you kill Kev?
You drown em, shoot em, or hang um?
Dog fighting be part of your culture, man! Ain’t nothin wrong wit it.
It’s Bush’s fault that Vick’s going to jail – dog killing! Of all things!
What’s next, prison for jay walking?
At least Vick stuck to his guns.
Thank you, parkay. I am going to Lowe’s tomorrow and leave them as much money as I am able…
I see Parkay is back to remind us of his insanity. Find your garden hose yet Parkay?
Uh Oh… sock puppet theater is now on the air!!!
What is it with some of you libs, clark/capn/chas; why are you always so paranoid, hostile, shrill and hysterical. Were you all this nutty when slick willie was prez?
180*
Asian stock markets are way up again today – 8/23.
US Markets very likely to jump upwards again tomorrow!
Gul, you think the libs are shrill now, just wait till Hillary gets the White House!
Can’t wait for the state of the union address. Don’t you just love Hillary’s voice?
Asian stock markets are way up again today – 8/23.
US Markets very likely to jump upwards again tomorrow!
Gul, you think the libs are shrill now, just wait till Hillary gets the White House!
Can’t wait for the state of the union address. Don’t you just love Hillary’s voice?
Sock Puppet Theater, brought to you by the makers of Monkey Socks… Available at fine stores everywhere!!
Cmon Parkay, just admit it was you who flooded Tiller’s clinic. Just think, you’ll be a hero….
And YAY to the IRS for getting involved in Spirit One’s obvious campaigning. DUH! You know, Parkay sounds just as nutty as the preacher from there…………
yep, Gonna spend LOTS at Lowes.
Kev, that’s truly the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard you say about Vick. Any kind of abuse like that should have their flipping balls removed….they should be happy to get off with just prison.
Kev on Kool aid tonite??
“Pmom I find it ironic that you were right beside him yesterday calling me a liar until I showed you how wrong you were.”
Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem, not only with morning after pills, but on when I called you a liar. I said I didn’t see where you posted the apology. I truly didn’t see it. There were a lot of posts there, I didn’t sit here all day in front of my screen. Did you ever stop to think I truly did MISS it?
All I asked, was if you did really apologize. I do get bent out of shape when WS goes on and on ranting like he does, I’ve called him out on it before. It just escalates and escalates, and you don’t do anything to really help the problem either. And we ALL are guilty of it from time to time.
So personally, I don’t really think you lied about your son or whatever it is that you said. I think you were mistaken just as I thought you were mistaken about the EC. But you seem to be mistaken a lot.
I don’t want you to stop posting here. But you argue and argue about something you seem so hell bent on being true, and when the other side presents and you come back with something off the wall, you have to expect to get called on the rug about it.
And no, I’m not about to stop calling out the fundies about what they do. They use their faith as a tool, and I’m going to use it back at em.
Are chas and dubya s. clark the same person. It seems as if every single liberal panty wetter in Kansas posts on this blog.
As to the scumbag vick, he should be drowned, hanged, or electrocuted just as was done to those dogs.
180*
Clark and Chas. are NOT the same person… Clark would really not like that Gul Dukat!!!
I dont much like it either!!
Chas, seriously, why do you get so fired up and paranoid? I recall you once got worried that someone could track down your email addy and on the other thread you seem worried that the Nathan poster might track you down at your church.
You also have the habit of using double or triple exclamations in your posts. And, you seem to accuse many new posters of being “trolls”. I find it all very curious, very curious indeed.
180*
Walk on by Chas!!!!
And you can use as many punctuation marks that you wish.
polmom,
What’s your story, huh?
180*
STUFF IT Gul!!! I am NOT playing your sick twisted game!!!
“worried that the Nathan poster might track you down at your church.”==============
I NEVER SAID THAT… SOMEBODY ELSE SAID THAT… MAYBE IT WAS YOU ON ANOTHER NIC, EH???
AND SO THE SOCK PUPPETS CRAWL BACK INTO THEIR DRAWER UNTIL THE NEXT TIME… NITE ALL!! GOD BLESS, WHATEVER YOU CONCEIVE GOD TO BE!!
Have Kev’s true colors come home to roost?
taking the maggot nap. Hopefully more Republicans will join him.Posted by: Kev | August 22, 2007 at 10:10 PM
But I guess the good old Republicans are still seething about OJ getting away with killing white folks so they gotta nail Vick to the cross for it.Posted by: Kev | August 22, 2007 at 10:14 PM
So… Republicans should die, it is OK that OJ got away with murder, and it is OK that Vick killed dogs.
Atta boy Kev, atta boy.
“Got to wonder, where’s the IRS audit of Tiller’s criminal abortion mill and underhanded dealings with second quack Neuhaus, not to mention secretive funding of leftist Kansas bureaucrats?”
Uh, maybe the IRS doesnt investigate Tiller because…. wait for it… HE IS NOT TAX EXEMPT!!!!!!
He can do as much political activity as he wants and NOT run afoul of the IRS because he is NOT a 501(c)3.
Unlike your so-called “churches”.
Pot, meet kettle.
Oh yeah. And Parkay? You are also STEW-PUD and uninformed, besides being terminally bigoted.
Jesus WEPT!
Tiller must be planning to redecorate again.