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Open thread 8/2
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Aug. 2, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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192 Comments
Well, yesterday’s Open Thread sure disintegrted from bad to worsed… And I didnt see ONE comment about the Minnestoa Bridge Tragedy from anybody…. Shame on all of us Bloggers for our insensitivity!! Shame I say!!
Chas, a bridge fell down and 7 people died. How many people died in Iraq yesterday? Darfur? How many children died of starvation yesterday? Turn on CNN or Fox; you’ll get all of the fallen bridge you want.
And now back to our All Troll Blog, All the Time….
The reason that the brideg fell down is because it was not properly maintained. There were no earthquakes in Minnesota yesterday. And if this country does not start putting more into fixing its aging infrastructure, more bridges are going to fall down, more steam pipes are going to blow up and more raw sewage is going to back up on the streets of America. The engineers have warned us for years about these problems and now the chickens are coming home to roost.
Just a friendly warning to those of you that think buying roadside service from your local friendly auto insurance company is a good idea:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/23/news/companies/towing_insurance/index.htm
Yes that is correct. If you have a flat, your battery runs out or you use the service for any reason at all, you car insurance rates go UP! So use AAA or another independent company. Just when you think that the insurance companies cannot go any lower…
Another FACT about the bridge collapse is the FACT that the bridge is part of I-35. Insterstate highways are bridges are largely FEDERAL and STATE responsibilities. Let’s see, the President is a Republican and the Governor is a Republican. I bet all those bridges we are paying Halliburton billions to build in Iraq aren’t falling are they? Bad things happen when BLUE states vote for Republicans.
You are kidding, right? A bridge collapes, people are killed, and all you can do is blame “The Republicans”.
Republicans must be great because they apparently they control the world.
My thoughts exactly Hud. However, nothing the left says or does surprises me anymore. They are beyond ridiculous and unreasonable.
Chas, a bridge fell down and 7 people died. How many people died in Iraq yesterday? Darfur? How many children died of starvation yesterday? Turn on CNN or Fox; you’ll get all of the fallen bridge you want.
Posted by: XXX | August 02, 2007 at 05:19 AM
========================
Of course ALL of those are most important… But just maybe if we werent wasting $$Billions$$ every day on this stupid and useless war, just maybe our own infrastructure would be just a bit better… And Maybe we would have more to send for relief aid to Darfur and food for starving children and adults, even on our own streets!! Be reminded of the words of John Donne…
“No man is an island, entire of itself…any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”
Or Chas it could be that the Inspectors of that bridge for the passed two years didn’t perform micro-fracture tests on bolts and beams like they were supposed to do.
Perhaps the bridge wasn’t designed to have bumper to bumper traffic rest on it five days a week.
Bridges do have load limits you know.
Perhaps the might Mississippi proved a bit too much for the support structure of the bridge with its increasing flood waters over the years.
Or Chas, we can deflect actual cause like you to some other politically convenient phrases. :)
Let’s see, dead dogs from tainted gluten. Tainted? Purposefully poisoned with a chemical meant to ‘up’ the apparent protein level. Tainted toothpaste in Central America. And now, over 1 million Fischer Price toys recalled due to toxic (lead) paint.
They downed one of our intelligence aircraft and held the crew hostage. They kept the plane and gave it back to us in boxes. They steal our intellectual property. They disregard our patents. They devalue their own currency to insure unbalanced trade.
Who can guess which country I’m talking about? Why are we still doing business with these people?
Well, well, well: against Federal District Court order and Ohio state law, 2/3 of the 2004 election records for the State of Ohio have, somehow, been destroyed. Imagine that.
http://www.alternet.org/story/58328
Well done, Ken Blackwell and Karl Rove: a stolen Presidential election in Ohio, and now–voila!–no paper trail. You’re slick at stealing Presidential elections, Republicans. CF2K’s hat is off to you.
Oh, and allow CF2K to be the one to say it: “move along; nothin’ to see here.”
CF…
http://www.hackingdemocracy.com/
I knew electing Rove to be God was a good idea. See how he managed to take the Ohio election records right out of the Dems hands and lose them.
Need to know more about the bridge collapse from engineers who study it. But at first glance, I would say in one sentence … TODAY’S LIVE LOADS ARE MUCH HEAVIER THAN DESIGNED FOR FIFTY YEARS AGO TRAVELING ON CONCRETE AND STEEL STRUCTURES THAT BEGIN GRADUALLY DETERIORATING ON THE DAY THE PROJECT IS FINISHED.
Let’s see CF2K, I’ve lost track. Is this conspiracy theory 10,291 or 10,292?
Hard to keep up with all these sinister Republican plots you know.
Maybe their should be an online registry for these plots so the Democrats can access a particular database.
Oh wait, they call that the DailyKos and moveon.org…my bad, thought I had something there.
Just wanted to congratulate the city of Pratt for finally being a Meth Watch community. As one of the most hardest hit communities in the State from the Meth epidemic, they finally got with the times and implemented the KDHE’s recommendation to be a Meth Watch Community.
So when you come into town and see that bright red sign that says “Meth Watch” posted on their city limits sign, you finally be assured that this community is doing something about it’s meth problem.
The Jews {Zionists } give us 3 dollar gasoline, the money which should have held up our bridges and levees.
Along with a steady stream of dead bodies.
Cut-off the funding today.
Let’s see, dead dogs from tainted gluten. Tainted? Purposefully poisoned with a chemical meant to ‘up’ the apparent protein level. Tainted toothpaste in Central America. And now, over 1 million Fischer Price toys recalled due to toxic (lead) paint.
They downed one of our intelligence aircraft and held the crew hostage. They kept the plane and gave it back to us in boxes. They steal our intellectual property. They disregard our patents. They devalue their own currency to insure unbalanced trade.
Who can guess which country I’m talking about? Why are we still doing business with these people?
Because they make our flat screen televisions?
Because in the past I wanted it cheap and did not care where it was made.
Now it is hard for me to find “Made in the USA”.
I’d rather go back to CRT than support a country that poisons our kids, dogs and neighbors. A country that steals from us on s many different levels.
Illegal immigrants stealing our jobs? OMG look at the jobs that are in China now. Artificially devaluing their currency to keep labor and manufacturing cheaper. Devaluing their currency to insure unbalanced trade? Give me that big dinosaur TV back. They can keep the flat panel.
Talk about selling your soul for a nickel.
Hud,
That is about where we are. Companies (shareholders) want the big buck now and F the future…
Another problem is that Made In The USA meant something. You were getting a superior product. Now with the better product is made overseas. We have lost the pride in our workmanship and our products.
Yes, we have already sold our soul. Now we need to figure out how to buy it back.
Well, I can see the Kahn is back to leading off with personal attacks again…. So, time to walk on by and go do something else… too ta loo all!!
See ya latter Miss Sissy Pants!
Having served on a Sedgwick County jury for a methadone manufacturing junky, I learned something about how this works. These methadone junky manufacturers generally hide in the larger cities but scour the country side and small towns in search for the ingredients for their illegal manufacturing operation.
The fumes from the “cooking” operation alone can kill people in the vicinity.
For those who don’t know, methadone is a substance that is manufactured rather than grown in fields like better known drugs.
Pratt County Sheriff Vernon Chinn and the Pratt Police Department, on which many of my high school classmates have served over the years, look with, shall we say, extreme disdain at law breakers in Pratt County, particularly at society’s misfits who are traveling their back roads.
So, Joe, stay on the main roads and out of trouble when you are passing through historic Pratt County.
Methadone is a chemically produced heroin replacement. The meth referenced above is methamphetamine. Exactly the opposite drugs. Meth is speed – an upper. Heroin is a downer or depressant.
Sam Brownback (R) 149 Votes (1.1 %)
Newt Gingrich (R) 666 Votes (4.9 %)
Rudy Giuliani (R) 471 Votes (3.5 %)
Mike Huckabee (R) 565 Votes (4.2 %)
Duncan Hunter (R) 865 Votes (6.4 %)
John McCain (R) 95 Votes (0.7 %)
Ron Paul (R) 7531 Votes (55.9 %)
Mitt Romney (R) 650 Votes (4.8 %)
Tom Tancredo (R) 276 Votes (2 %)
Tommy Thompson (R) 32 Votes (0.2 %)
Fred Thompson (R) 2179 Votes (16.2 %)
http://www.freedomworks.org/strawpoll/
Last day to vote. The Demo is comming up at the end of Aug.
Gee, that second tier candidate has OVER half of the votes. Go figure. I guess the telephone polling is ancient technology. Better re-calibrate for the 21st century.
CF2K — in regard to your post about the Ohio Elections… Looks like this is no conspiracy theory, as suggested by someone upthread…
“On Sept. 11, 2006, U.S. District Judge Algenon Marbley ordered the election boards “to preserve all ballots from the 2004 Presidential election, on paper and in any other format, including electronic data, unless and until such time otherwise instructed by this Court.”"
Well, Kansas, Ad Hominem’s alrady??? at this hour??
Have you taken your meds today??
SOL — nice point of clarification on the Meth issue above!! I was a little curious how anybody was doing that methadone stuff, in a Meth lab!!
Chas,
Indeed. When Federal District Court judges order things not to be done, and they are done, folks who respect the rule of law generally think that’s kind of a big deal and stuff.
Sol,
That voting poll is too easily manipulated. One can easily vote more than once for the same candidate.
Well, Kansas, Ad Hominem’s alrady??? at this hour??
Have you taken your meds today??
Posted by: Chas. | August 02, 2007 at 08:36 AM
Awww Chas, I was just funnin ya. Guess we are a little sensitive aren’t we?
Chas, please just walk on by…
walk on by…
I’m walkin…. not talkin…. gettin real tired of all this troll hoggin on the old bloggin…
Thanks chas. I know it is always tempting to clock him, ’cause it is so easy. But we all thank you and others for not feeding the troll.
here are a few links to faith based gov. programs
http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/grant-opportunities.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/
“What really caught journalists’ attention, however, was some praise for it from another politician—Sen. Hilary Rodham Clinton. “There is no contradiction between support for faith-based initiatives and upholding our constitutional principles,” Clinton declared in keynoting an awards ceremony at a faith-based agency in Boston on the eve of Bush’s second inauguration, according to a report by Michael Jonas in the Boston Globe. “I’ve always been a praying person,” she added.”
While he emphasizes the need for the separation of church and state, Obama says there is room for faith-based approaches to social problems. “One can envision certain faith-based programs – targeting ex-offenders or substance abusers – that offer a uniquely powerful way of solving problems,” he said in June 2006.
I guess the only contradiction is WHO decides which faith-based initiative gets grant funding, and wich one doesnt… and is there any kind of pattern established as to which ones get grants??
What about a faith-based initiative that works for gay rights, and same sex marriage??
Would that have as much of a chance of getting grants in this administration as a group working on establishing abstinence-only sex education??
I do business already with Baker Creek, but you all should check out this link to one of their tomato descriptions.
I had heard about this earlier. Along with iraq’s oil, we also want to squash their farmers. American Imperialism.
It was previously called the “monsanto relief clause”.
http://rareseeds.com/seeds/Tomatoes-Red/Rouge-D-Irak
KFG…. so this is a part of the Shrub’s “I am not interested in nation building” campaign strategy that got him elected… along with the “I want to be a Uniter, not a divider…” ???
How do you go about stopping such a silly thing as banning tomato seeds???
And what the hell do tomato seeds have to do with any possible interests in stopping the “war on terror”???
Well Chas, I think some of us thought we would “stop” crap like this by electing democrats to congress.
This is all part of the deal that had to be accepted by the new iraqi government, along with us stealing their oil.
IIRC, Pelosi et al supported it.
I do business already with Baker Creek, but you all should check out this link to one of their tomato descriptions.
I had heard about this earlier. Along with iraq’s oil, we also want to squash their farmers. American Imperialism.
It was previously called the “monsanto relief clause”.
http://rareseeds.com/seeds/Tomatoes-Red/Rouge-D-Irak
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | August 02, 2007 at 09:16 AM
So Baker seeds says so. SO what? Any other proof? Or jsut another idealogue mouthing off? WHy believe them? WHy?
…and if THIS is what is happening with tomato seeds, imagine what is happening with their wheat seeds, cotton seeds, etc.
Farmers here in the US are finding it more and more difficult to save their own seeds because of the monsantos of the world having PATENTS on damn near every seed.
Monsanto recently had a set back in some patent litigation related to seed saving, but as you can see, they’ve bought and paid for their congress just like halliburton.
Like I said, the monsanto relief act. GMO frankenfoods, coming to an american grocery store near you.
Is the tomato thing more in line with the producers holding patents on the seeds? Corn growers here have to sign a contract stating that they will not keep the seed for next season, but instead buy more from the vendor.
Whoops, cross post…
LJ, you are insane these days. Troll much?
Iraq’s New Seed Patent LawA 20 year moratorium on biodiversity—By Martin Brown, Utne.com
For generations, Iraq’s indigenous farmers have saved seeds from a previous year’s harvest to plant the next year. To facilitate new crops, they have also informally swapped seeds with one another. A new amendment to Iraq’s patent law, enacted by former Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) administrator L. Paul Bremer III, provides for the “protection of new varieties of plants.”
To qualify for protection under the law, and thus to be legal for agricultural use, plant varieties must be new, distinct, uniform, and stable. The seed supply that Iraqi farmers have used for years cannot meet these criteria. So U.S. corporations, who have the means to modify and “stabilize” the seed varieties, now dominate the market and can sell to farmers without domestic competition.
The intellectual property rights that the patent law grants last for 20 years for crop varieties and 25 years for trees and vines. So, while the U.S. military occupation may be over within in the next two decades, the corporate occupation could last for generations.”
Just google “seeds + iraq” for a MULTITUDE of sources for this.
WTF is the MATTER with you?
It’s a bullshit deal Farmie to be sure. Don’t’ American farmers face the same issue here? I mean how screwed is that that they can tell you what you can and can not do with your produce even after it’s grown.
WTF is the MATTER with you?
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | August 02, 2007 at 09:36 AM
Well, let’s see. NOTHING in the article says that they cannot plant their own seeds. What it says that to be eligible for patent they “provides for the “protection of new varieties of plants.”"to qualify for protection under the law, and thus to be legal for agricultural use, plant varieties must be new, distinct, uniform, and stable”
WTF is the matter with your reading skills? PAtent laws ALWAYS covers new and distinct. Quit looking for the boogeyman BUsh under every bush. You ‘ll be a lot happier.
Did you do the google LJ? There is a LOT of information there.
But please, continue to discount the evidence. And btw, I blamed pelosi and company, not bush.
Read much?
Is there something you dont understand about THIS in the article?
“and thus to be legal for agricultural use, plant varieties must be new, distinct, uniform, and stable.”
What part of “legal for agricultural use” do you not understand?
can you not read your own damned article?
A new amendment to Iraq’s —-patent law,—- enacted by former Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) administrator L. Paul Bremer III, provides for the “protection of new varieties of plants.”
To qualify for —-protection under the law—–, and thus to be legal for agricultural use, plant varieties must be new, distinct, uniform, and stable.
It’s about NEW PLANT VARIETIES! DAMN, IT”S YOU OWN FREASKING POST! READ IT!
First damn Post I googlehttp://www.grain.org/articles/?id=6
saysCLARIFICATION – February 2005 The report jointly issued by Focus on the Global South and GRAIN in October 2004 on Iraq’s new patent law has received a lot of attention worldwide. It has also generated a misunderstanding that we wish to clarify. The law does not prohibit Iraqi farmers from using or saving “traditional” seeds. It prohibits them from reusing seeds of “new” plant varieties registered under the law. In practical terms, this means they cannot save those seeds for re-use either. The report has been revised to express this more clearly.
——————————————————————————–
“
LJ, after this, I’m done feeding your trolling as well. If anyone else had posted this, you wouldnt have a damn thing to say.
Wanna sink to the status of ankle biter? Ok. Looks like you already have.
Yes, please click on LJ’s link.
From the same article:
“CORPORATE CONTROL
The new law is presented as being necessary to ensure the supply of good quality seeds in Iraq and to facilitate Iraq’s accession to the WTO [5]. What it will actually do is facilitate the penetration of Iraqi agriculture by the likes of Monsanto, Syngenta, Bayer and Dow Chemical – the corporate giants that control seed trade across the globe. Eliminating competition from farmers is a prerequisite for these companies to open up operations in Iraq, which the new law has achieved. Taking over the first step in the food chain is their next move.
The new patent law also explicitly promotes the commercialisation of genetically modified (GM) seeds in Iraq. Despite serious resistance from farmers and consumers around the world, these same companies are pushing GM crops on farmers around the world for their own profit. Contrary to what the industry is asserting, GM seeds do not reduce the use of pesticides, but they pose a threat to the environment and to people’s health while they increase farmers dependency on agribusiness. In some countries like India, the ‘accidental’ release of GM crops is deliberately manipulated [6], since physical segregation of GM and GM-free crops is not feasible. Once introduced into the agro-ecological cycle there is no possible recall or cleanup from genetic pollution [7].”
LJ, the “clarification” was posted long after the original article. Do ya suppose some “clarification” was necessary for political reasons?
kfg, my take on this (without the benefit of the google or anything else) is as follows:
The revision of the Iraqi Patent Law protects the patented seed. The seed companies develop, through genetic modification, new, distinct… crops that result in better production than the native seed. Some Iraqi farmers who are able to afford to do so purchase the new seed, plant and raise the produce, selling same, hopefully producing more basic foodstuffs locally to help feed the population.
Due to the “better” crops, the Iraqi farmers who have planted the traditional saved seed suffer loss, and are forced out of the market. Iraqi culture is such that ordinarily, the seeds produced from the “new” varieties would be traded among the farmers, but, due to the patent, the seeds from the “new” varieties, also being covered by the patents, belong to the seed company, not the farmers. As such, in order to continue to grow crops which may provide food for the country, and subsistence to the farmer, the farmer is forced to buy the “new” seed from the company producing same, and cannot lawfully retain seed from this year’s production to plant next year’s crop, but instead, must buy the seed for next year’s crop from the company, not to mention being prohibited from trading it for other seed within the agriculture community. This, then, creates the undesirable situation where the local farmers, unable to afford to buy the “new” seed, resort to growing other crops (do poppies do well in Iraq?), or are forced from their land into the cities where they cannot obtain employment, creating more potential for further civil unrest. The production of food locally is impacted, as the price therefor is higher (due to the royalty component of the “new” seed), making it more difficult for the citizens to adequately feed themselves.
Meanwhile, the cost of the “new” seed increases, due to the artificial monopoly on the same as the result of patent protection. Further, as the result of the loss of local farmers, the ability to meet the demand for food locally diminishes, which results in the need to import more food, which is also grown from the patented “new” seed in other countries, creating a balance of payments issue, and additional revenues to the seed company. Finally, the existence of the patents, etc., create a barrier to entry into the agricultural sector, as the costs of entry have been increased, the result of which is concentrating the local ag production in a relatively few producers.
Thus, the seed companies win; the local farmers lose, and another country is placed in the position where a) either it cannot produce sufficient products to feed its population and therefore must import food, or b) any surplus produce which might be exported is not able to be priced at a competitive level (assuming no government subsidy), thereby creating no incentive to further develop the agricultural sector of the economy.
Long winded way to say this sounds like a bad thing for the Iraqis, but a good thing for Monsato, et al.
For a war torn country is seems odd that anyone would even be thinking about seed patent protection? What kind of priorities does the U.S. have in Iraq?
Not to mention the inability of the Iraqis to “patent” the native seed, which through generations of planting, mutation, etc., may be well adapted to the Iraqi climate, etc., but which are not “engineered” to produce optimally. Thus, this seed, not protected, isn’t of any great value compared to the “new, better” engineered seed, which may well exploit the natural genetic change in the “saved seed” resulting from its being produced, selected, etc. in the area. The seed company, then, benefits from that at no cost to it while ramping up production of its “new, better” seed, to be sold at a higher cost.
I’m not against patent protection as a general proposition. I’ve some issue with the ability to patent seed, as an example, especially where the potential exists, as here, of exploitation of naturally occurring mutation, etc., for a greater profit.
Probably clear as mud. :-)
Thanks VT, for confirming what the article says. And I agree, what kind of priorities DO we have in iraq?
Looks like corporate looting and war profiteering are at the top of the list.
Riddle me this, two farmers growing wheat in Iraq. One far is using ‘new’ seed. The other far is using ‘traditional’ seed. The two crops cross pollinate. The resulting seed from both farmers – can they be retained? If so, has the –traditional- farmer benefited from the modified seed w/o cost?
Thanks for the further comments VT.
To me, this is the most important part:
“the “new, better” engineered seed, which may well exploit the natural genetic change in the “saved seed” resulting from its being produced, selected, etc. in the area.”
That is the REAL danger in all of this. There is an example of how monsanto actually patented some varietis of potato in South America that had developed, as you said, over time by trading amongst the locals.
Then monsanto swept in, took these varieties to the patent office first, and now those farmers cant grow the varieties that THEY developed because they failed to patent them.
THAT is the question for any genetic patent. Is it something someone actually “developed” or are they just patenting in whole or part something that has naturally evolved over time and usage.
far = farmer in geekaneese – for the uninformed ;->
Solly, there is a very famous case in Canada on that same issue regarding canola plants, crops and seeds. Guess how it ended?
Monsanto won.
Sol, I deliberately stayed away from that one, as it raises issues that my meager knowledge of intellectual property law cannot answer with any certainty. SPECULATION: that the hybrid, containing some genetic information from the patented seed, would be subject to the patent.
Seems to me there is more justice in forcing monsanto to control the pollination of their frankenfood seeds than it is to punish the farmer because that pollination came to his/her field through no fault of their own.
But then, heheheh, corporate profits uber alles, apparantly.
That is a load of $hit. VT, do you have any idea how this can be truncated? Will my stupid little backyard garden be ‘owned’ by these a$$holes one day?
Here’s a link to the canola case.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/ge/schmeiser.cfm
You have to remember that all these genetic species of agriculture products are developed by Universities, most of all which are State run universities with huge grants form the Dept. of Ag.
…and here’s a link to the potato patent issue. I dont vouch for the source, but it is consistant with other things I’ve read about this.
http://uk.oneworld.net/article/view/144835/1/?PrintableVersion=enabled
Sol, the best suggestion I have is that the law of patent needs to be amended. Next suggestion: if your neighbor grows genetically modified veggies and fruits, don’t plant a garden. Next suggestion: even if your neighbor plants such, and you want a garden, kill all bees, butterflies, moths, etc., which carry pollen, or, failing this, wrap your garden in a protective covering so your “heritage” plants are not subject to cross-pollenization. :-)
Remember, it’s the seed they “own”.
LJ, after this, I’m done feeding your trolling as well.
Figures. Anywbody that disagrees with you is a troll.
“If anyone else had posted this, you wouldnt have a damn thing to say”
Not true. It is now my mission to call to account all the falsehoods, bs posts, and speculation give as fact.
LJ, the “clarification” was posted long after the original article. Do ya suppose some “clarification” was necessary for political reasons?
Do you suppose because they got it wrong? of course the clarification ws posted after the original article. That’s why it’s called a clarification
Not necessarily so any more, Joe. There are many research projects at major research Universities (ag and otherwise) that are being funded by corporate grants, replete with restrictions, intellectual property rights assignment, etc.
VT – LMAO. How well will my little babies grow under 16 mils of saran wrap?
Is a 12 guage and effective means of controling bees and butterflies?
Wow, lots of great stuff here… Now THIS is a great thread!! Very informative!! I learn new things every day… Thanks KFG, VT, and SOL!!
Chas,
the bill is in the mail ;->
Uh, if they got it wrong, it would have been a CORRECTION not a clarification.
Keep trolling me lj. It shows your true colors.
How can you patent a living organism like a seed?
as to Monsanto,
They can kiss my ass. While they have a perfect right to protect the patent or plants THEY develop, they should have no claim on anything else. THey are nothing but a filthy chemical company, and have gone way beyond the pale of an ethical company. If they spend the money on developing a new variety, then they should reap the benefit, as in financial protection for their investment. If they did not, or try and claim some spurious idea that their crop cross pollinated, etc etc, then they should be fined or thrown out of business. It’s called STEALING!Plant traditional varieties. Don;t give them a fking penny
LJ — Are you sure thats really you posting??? Doesnt sound like you… maybe a troller got your nic and using it??? Sure doesnt read like normal!!
What VT said Joe. I’m not really disagreeing that universities and USDA and FDA grants play a role.
But these days, there is so much profit to be had in GMO and patented frankenfoods, that most seed companies “buy” the technology or characteristics and then commercialize it.
Or they pay their own “breeders” to develop new varieties that they can patent. And remember, the “change” in the “varieties” can be very small and still qualify for a patent.
Thus, the taking of “old” or heirloom varieties or parts of them, and creating so called “new” varieties that now are the exclusive property of some seed company.
It is a big problem that will only grow over time, no pun intended :) That’s why you see so many seed saving coopertives and seed exchanges.
And small entrepreneurs selling non-patented heirloom variety seeds :)
Holy Crap! It is legal to patent a living organism. I thought it couldn’t be done.
But I decided to do a search. And sure enough a Supreme Court Case in 1980 allowed companies to patent live, human-made micro-organism.
Damn! That’s a slippery slope if I ever seen one. What a shock! No wonder there is an onslaught of GE crops.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_v._Chakrabarty
“LJ — Are you sure thats really you posting??? Doesnt sound like you… maybe a troller got your nic and using it??? Sure doesnt read like normal!!”
Ditto chas. Something just isnt right here. Such a 180 degree turnaround is highly suspicious. Either he’s been hosing us all along, or he’s bipolar to the extreme.
Or aliens have stolen a perfectly good poster, done heinous experiments, and then plopped him back down here.
I call again, “where is lj and what have you done with him”?
heheheeh Joe. Right now they are whopping up on plants.
Just wait until it starts, or should I say, picks up, with animals….
Keep trolling me lj. It shows your true colors.
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | August 02, 2007 at 10:33 AM
Your post was the one that raised the alarm. Falsely. I pointed out your error. Then the WTF is the matter with you post is by whom? Me? No, I think it was you. The Are You Insame Post . Oh, you again. You got busted by posting bad information. Get over it.
Yes, my true colors. Christian Taliban, as defined by you.
Oh, and you blame Pelosi why? She wasn;t speaker in 2004. Bremer didn;t report to her, but to BUSH. Once again, you got busted and try to deflect. I call your BS
We’re already screwing up our kids with the meat products. The ranchers have their cows so doped up on antibiotics and growth hormones. Take a look at how fast kids are developing these days. Take a 13 year old girl from the 50’s and put her up against a 13 year old of today.
With the antibiotics, how soon before we have super – bugs? Bacteria that are resistant to all known forms of medication. Yipee. Can’t wait for THAT !!!
Now they are dipping into vegetation. Wasn’t there a big stink about a cereal manufacturer using GM grain? The cross pollination thing is staggering. Even if someone is trying to grow a ‘tradition’ strain, who knows what happens after pollination.
I know most of you don’t believe in Him, but by God, leave the plants and animals to GOD !!!
Whoops – forgot to add – the GM grain being fed to livestock. Has there been any research into the effects? The effects of consuming meat of a GM fed animal?
Those people who condemn the ELECTION fraud (not voter fraud) in Ohio as a “conspiracy theory” should remember that sometimes very bad events are the result of a conspiracy.
The killing of Abraham Lincoln was a proven conspiracy.
Operation Ajax overthrowing the democratically elected PM of Iran and replacing him with the Shah was a conspiracy.
9-11 was a conspiracy of some 20 or so hijackers. And what’s really idiotic is believing that these 20 stumble-bums could pull off an operation like that without major backing from a Mideast power–like Saudi Arabia.
Calling the election fraud in Ohio “a conspiracy theory” in no way invalidates the evidence that supports the fraud.
Capn,
the burden of proof falls on the accuser.
you ain’t there yet..
First, I’m sad and concerned about the state of Minnesota. What a mess. I do think more funding needs to be available for these kind of things. We’ll see who fought for and against funding for highway funds in that state I’m sure very soon.
Second, this is going to become epidemic as many bridges are at least that old or older. We need to be looking at Kansas City and ohter bridges in Kansas that we might need to fix before this happens here.
News Flash: If American product sellers go to a third world country precisely because they do not have ‘cumbersome’ environmental and health regulations to produce/buy their products, Americams should not be surprised to learn they are purchansing unsafe/inferior products!
Bush has demonstrated that if you bury, destroy, and otherwise obstruct the evidence finding process; no harm has been done! At least to the righties thinking, can’t prove it,didn’t happen, nothing to see here.
P_Mom, from what little I know, the appropriation of sufficient funding to maintain highway infrastructure in Minnesota has been a highly-charged issue within its legislature the past two sessions. While the bridge that collapsed is a part of an interstate highway, I believe that the state is charged with providing maintenance, with some federal funding through grants, etc. to help pay the cost.
The thing that is perverse in this whole area is that the cost of ongoing maintenance, etc., of bridges is higher than the cost of rebuilding one after it collapses, according to some folks being interviewed on the tube this morning (sorry, wasn’t paying attention to whom was being interviewed or the program, the tube was on as “background” noise).
P-Mom I quite agree…
CapN… I have good friends in Ohio… used to work there… There is a LOT of concern that this was, indeed, a kind of conspiracy, to block certain voters from their rightful exercise of voting…. And yes, what you say about conspiracy theories is, alas, all too true!!
But, if we say it too loud, the Wing Nuts will run rampant with it, and spin it out of all proportions… and what good will that do???
I hope the Court in Ohio finds all of those responsible in violation or the court order, and/or obstruction of justice, and/or contempt of court at the very least!!
Relying on memory here, I believe I’ve seen a program where these same seed rules are applied in African countries where the masses are routinely starving. The farmers are little more than share croppers having to buy all their seed.
I hope the Court in Ohio finds all of those responsible in violation or the court order, and/or obstruction of justice, and/or contempt of court at the very least!!
Posted by: Chas. | August 02, 2007 at 11:08 AM
That would be my hope also. As to the rest? who knows? Perhaps it would be better to decertify the election, oust both Bush and Cheney, and install Gore and Kerry. It’s the only solution
That might work, LJ, but last I knew in this country, we dont “install” presidents, we innaugurate them… LOL
Joe, thanks for doing the legal research. I know that the results of that case (and many subsequent cases at lower court levels) are a shock to many. Yes, a slippery slope to be sure.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/08/02/vosli.mn.i35w.bridge.collapse.side.view.cnn
The bridge falling.
Wait a sec, I haven’t been following this Rove Ohio voting story. Can someone fill me in?
A simple question:
If company a spends millions of dollars, or even thousands of dollars, creating a new variety of whatever, should they profit from that investment? or should it just belong to the people?
“What do you mean patent on potatoes?”
“That there field Mister represents 10 acres of the finest ‘volunteer’ potato plants in Kanas!”
:D
LJ, yes they should.
If you bought a brand new car – new technology and all. My car is parked on the street. You bump into my car and some of your patented paint rubs off on my car, should I be responsible for the patent rights of the paint left on my car?
Pretty weak analogy. But if my neighbor plants –super tomatoes- and they cross pollinate with my –regular- tomatoes, I no longer have the right to save my seeds – through no fault of my own.
Is that justified?
“your patented paint rubs off on my car, should I be responsible for the patent rights of the paint left on my car?”
If you take that paint and replicate it? Then what?
So, as I understand your take. If I grow super tomatoes, and some cross pollination “happens” to happen, and you then grow 10,000 acres of tomatoes with my characteristics, i am not entitled to reap the rewards of developing those characteristics? Is that your stance?
If through no fault of my own, plants cross pollinate, then yes. That is my stance. I do not want nor did I attempt to gain favor by pollination from your plants. Why is it my responsibility to contain pollen? I am merely growing – traditional – fruit. You have purchased –super plants–. Can I sue you for taking the characteristics of my plants? Refined over decades of my own seed recovery?
One thing I learned from gardening is to not plant your cukes and cantaloupes too close together.
Both tasted rather odd. :D
So, monsanto and the rest, derive no profit from their research and development, simply by some farmer saying “Oh, I didn;t steal your stuff, it was cross-pollinaiton. Sorry about that. Okay. Then it is detrimental to the profits of the company to research anything that can so easily be “taken”. so why bother? And YEah, you could probably sue Monsanto for ruining your crop of heritage tomatoes. WOuld you win? Probably not. Same reason. “Oh, it wasn;t my fault, it was nature”
SO, monsanto, or whomever, should only benefit from the first generation of seeds sold? The first season? After that, they belong to anyone?
I don;t think that’s how the seed business works. I could be wrong.
Interesting posts on the issue of bio-colonialism, or the patenting of organisms. By doing so, Monsanto and other companies can guarantee monoculture of plant species to ensure their profits.
CF2K finds this to be the among the scarier and more insidious encroachments of capital on the biosphere. It’s akin to the privatizing of water, in that capital basically locks up life-sustaining resources and then charges for them.
P-Mom,
In spite of Ohio state law and against the order of a Federal District Court Judge, 2/3 of the Ohio county voting records from the 2004 Presidential Election have been destoryed.
Thus, no further investigation into the myriad scandals, convictions, and allegations associated with the Ohio vote supervised by Ken Blackwell.
Rove is the best ratf*cker of American elections since LBJ. But whereas LBJ only stole a Senate seat in 1948, Rove has stolen the Presidency twice.
Oh, and folks? Under the law, the destruction of evidence creates a legitimate presumption of wrongdoing.
So you invest 10,000 in –standard seed—with the intent on capturing the seed from the best producing plants. You neighbor plants super seed. The crops cross pollinate. Now you can not legally realize your initial investment.
Either way it is lose lose. You can side with big corporations or with nature. In the long run? I’ll guarantee the victor.
Let’s say that you buy super seed. Your neighbor buys traditional seed. The crops cross pollinate. Who maintains the rights of the next generation as they have now mutated from the original super seed and the natural seed?
Well, it is patently obvious that Monsanto’s (et al) investment in Congress is paying off well.
Very well. Nobody has any rights to what they develop, particularly in the areas of genetics, genetic engineering, and seed production. That is your stance. I can live with that. Monsanto, and every other seed grower, should immediately HALT all plant and seed research and production as it is research not warranted by any business model.
Brian,
“Patently” obvious. Good one, all the more so because it appears to have been unintentional.
lj,
Nice try at obfuscating the issue.
LJ,
No reason to get pissy. Can you refute my two previous posts?
“The crops cross pollinate. Who maintains the rights of the next generation as they have now mutated from the original super seed and the natural seed?Posted by: SolDevVB | August 02, 2007 at 12:13 PM ”
I think it would depends how different the progeny is from the super-seeds. If it is different enough, and you can get to the patent office before Monsanto, maybe you have something workable.
I will have to read up on the means by which the Courts and patent office justified patenting seeds. The patented genes were based on already existing varieties of tomatoes, so it seems the patent would have to be for a new combination of already existing genes. So if the hybrid progeny of you and your neighbors crops has a distinctively new gene sequence, I think there would be some grounds for it to be separate from the original super-seed patent.
I am no lawyer, though.
CF2K,
Under commonsense, the contiinuously posting of your conspiracy theories borders on insanity.
“”Patently” obvious. Good one, all the more so because it appears to have been unintentional.Posted by: CF2K | August 02, 2007 at 12:20 PM ”
Thanks. It was entirely intentional. I loves me some puns!
Ownership of what is developed with private mnoney is precisely the issue. Not Obfuscating anything. Either they own the righs to it, or not. If they do, then they are owed the financial reweards. . IF they do not, then as a company, they have an obligation to not spend research dollars on something that provides no return
Nathan,
Even for you, that was an uncharacteristically stupid post.
If you’ve got a beef with substance, bring it. Otherwise, spare me your meaningless editorializing.
See. It really is quite simple. Either you own the result of your investment and labor, or you do not.
“Under commonsense, the contiinuously posting of your conspiracy theories borders on insanity.Posted by: Nathan | August 02, 2007 at 12:21 PM ”
Huh?!?
CF where is the link of Rove with the Ohio voting records. I think I missed that link.
CF2K,
I wouldn’t know where to begin with your obvious lies or paranoid delusions.
President Bush didn’t steal ( nor did Rove) either election.
The mere fact that you are still sitting here in 2007 saying they did is either insanity or an outright attempt to do anything you can ( lie ) to make President Bush look bad.
Did that clear it up for you?
Wouldn’t cross pollenation through no fault or with no help from you create another product that would be different from the original patented product?
The argument about whether or not hybridization, genetic engineering, the lack of diversity in the gene pool etc, is good for us or not is another discussion.
The original sale of the seed. That is a given. The farmer is not allowed to keep any seeds from that crop. That is a given. But when you bring cross pollination and impacting those that don’t participate in GM products, that is where the trouble lies.
You can not feasibly stop cross pollination.
If a person is using traditional seed, they should not be impacted by another farmer’s purchase of GM seed.
Caveat – Lets say super tomatoes. Come to find out they cause cancer. The farmer who bought the super seed, is he protected by the company that modified the gene structure?
The farmer that did not use super seed, will he be protected? If he can be stripped of his rights to keep his own seed, then surely the restrictive company should protect him in the case of a defective/dangerous product.
lj,
Even when all that investment and labor has done is to map the genome of an existing species, such as wild rice in Minnesota, and then altered a single characteristic, say, its fertility?
http://www.theoryandpractice.org/kyle/Musings/WildRice
As LaDuke’s essay explains, there are concerns with the bioresource base that go well beyond the relatively limited insistence on property rights. Among these are such issues as overdependence on monocultures, the genetic sterilization of seed stock, and the use of market leverage to force seed on unwelcoming third-world markets.
KSGRM,
Kinda my point. The idea of patenting seeds seems ludicrous. How can you maintain the gene line when you have field after field of vegetation growing?
ksgrm,
Rove and Blackwell? They’re pals.
http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=5320065&nav=menu34_25
Man I can’t wait until I retire so I log on to the blog all day.
I’ll be on the government payroll by then, so I’ll be a liberal by then.
Nathan,
Do you know how to read? 2/3 of the vote records for Ohio have been destroyed, in contravention of state law and a Federal Court Order.
Does the rule of law really fly that far above your head, Nathan?
“Caveat – Lets say super tomatoes. Come to find out they cause cancer. The farmer who bought the super seed, is he protected by the company that modified the gene structure?
The farmer that did not use super seed, will he be protected? If he can be stripped of his rights to keep his own seed, then surely the restrictive company should protect him in the case of a defective/dangerous product.
Posted by: SolDevVB | August 02, 2007 at 12:31 PM ”
That is a wonderful question. I would love to hear the feedback of the legal system and Monsanto on that. I do not know how Monsanto would not have responsibility in that scenario.
there are concerns with the “bioresource base that go well beyond the relatively limited insistence on property rights. Among these are such issues as overdependence on monocultures, the genetic sterilization of seed stock, and the use of market leverage to force seed on unwelcoming third-world markets.”
THose are legitimate concerns. They do not however, answer the question of whether or not someone owns the right to something they have created? If they do not, they have no business spending billions of dollars on research. If they do, then they are owed the right to profit from it. Simple.
“How can you maintain the gene line when you have field after field of vegetation growing?”
There are certified seed growers. They must maintain strict growing procedures, and distances from other crops. THey are also only paid if those seed returned are still the same “gene line”
If Monsanto would have any claim to fruit produced from accidentally cross-pollinated adjacent fields, I would also think Monsanto would have liability for that as well. An organic food producer could suffer real economic damage if their crops were somehow hybridized, accidentally or not, with GM fruit.
My guess is that Monsanto would be held responsible. It was THEY who supplied the seed, not the tomato grower.
CF2K,
I am all for the rule of law.
What flew over my head was your claim ( insanity or lies ) that Bush stole both elections.
“There are certified seed growers”
I am addressing average farmers. Those that buy GM seed and those that buy traditional.
Should the traditional farmers be impacted by another farmer who purchased ’super seed’
Please read the above posts for examples.
“President Bush didn’t steal ( nor did Rove) either election.
Posted by: Nathan | August 02, 2007 at 12:28 PM ”
You can’t prove that can you Nathan?
Because the voting records have been destroyed!
Remember Nathan,As the saying goes, just because someone is paranoid does not mean they are not being followed.
Love these hypotheticals, folks. brian, it is my most unlearned, curbstone opinion that under sec. 402A, Restatement of Torts, Monsato would have “strict liability” therefor.
ksgrm, the total area of intellectual property law lies well beyond my ken. Again, my speculation is that if sufficient genetic material of the hybrid is traceable to the patented seed, Monsato has, at least, a colorable claim upon which to litigate.
lj, your point is well taken. It is an area for further discussion, and for those wishing to do same, it seems this Open Thread is an appropriate forum therefor.
PRESIDENT BUSH’S AMAZING ACCOMPLISHMENTS
Abortion & Traditional Values
1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion — by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade.
2. Reversed Clinton’s move to strike Reagan’s anti-abortion Mexico Policy.
3. By Executive Order (EO), reversed Clinton’s policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act.
4. By EO, prohibited federal funds for international family planning groups that provide abortions and related services.
5. Upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals.
6. Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004.
7. Supports the Defense of Marriage Act — and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman.
8. Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.
9. Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools.
10. Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms).
11. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline.
12. Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.
Budget, Taxes & Economy
1. Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.
2. Supports permanent elimination of the death tax.
3. Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
4. Is seeking legislation to amend the Constitution to give the president line-item veto authority.
5. In process of permanently eliminating IRS marriage penalty.
6. Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.
7. Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts.
8. Killed Clinton’s “ergonomic” rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.
9. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.
10. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.
11. Signed trade promotion authority.
12. Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.
13. Fight Europe’s ban on importing biotech crops from the United States.
14. Exempt food from unilateral trade sanctions and embargoes.
15. Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.
16. Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.
17. Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA’s from $500 to $2,000 per child.
18. Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit and provide $1 billion over five years to increase the credit to $10,000.
19. Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans.
20. Reduced H1B visas from a high of 195,000 per year to 66,000 per year.
Character & Conduct as President
1. Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the presidency.
2. Has reintroduced the mention of God and faith into public discourse.
3. Handled himself with enormous courage, dignity, grace, determination, and leadership in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 hijackings and anthrax attacks. He almost single-handedly held this country together during those searing days:
Just three days after the attacks, in his address at the National Cathedral, the President reassured the nation when he said: “War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing.”
On Friday, September 14, 2001, President Bush visited Ground Zero. Standing on a crushed and burned fire engine atop the smoldering pile at Ground Zero, he put his arm around a retired firefighter who had volunteered to help, and began speaking to the crowd. Rescue workers shouted that they could not hear him. Someone handed him a small American flag and bullhorn. The President spontaneously shouted: “I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon.” The crowd roared with cheers and chants of “USA! USA! USA!” Then he raised that American flag and rallied a nation.
Education & Employment Training
1. Signed the No Child Left Behind Act, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations). The very liberal California Teachers union is currently running radio ads against the accountability provisions of this Act.
2. Announced “Jobs for the 21st Century,” a comprehensive plan to better prepare workers for jobs in the new millennium by strengthening post-secondary education and job training, and by improving high school education.
3. Is working to provide vouchers to low-income students in persistently failing schools to help with costs of attending private schools. (Blocked in the Senate.)
4. Requires annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight.
5. Requires states to participate in the National Assessment of Education Progress, or an equivalent program, to establish a national benchmark for academic performance.
6. Requires school-by-school accountability report cards.
7. Established a $2.4 billion fund to help states implement teacher accountability systems.
8. Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to become teachers.
Environment & Energy
1. Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.
2. Submitted a comprehensive Energy Plan (awaits Congressional action). The plan works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc.
3. Established a $10 million grant program to promote private conservation initiatives.
4. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.
5. Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger.
6. Part of national forests cleanup: Restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges), and removed the need for an Environmental Impact Statement before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger.
7. Killed Clinton’s CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California.
8. Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species.
Defense & Foreign Policy
1. Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom.
2. Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime’s senior members were killed or captured.
3. Leader by leader and member by member, al Maida is being hunted down in dozens of countries around the world. Of the senior al Qaeda leaders, operational managers, and key facilitators the U.S. Government has been tracking, nearly two-thirds have been taken into custody or killed. The detentions or deaths of senior al Qaeda leaders, including Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the mastermind of 9/11, and Muhammad Atef, Osama bin Laden’s second-in-command until his death in late 2001, have been important in the War on Terror.
4. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD’s without bribes or bloodshed.
5. Continues to execute the War On Terror, getting worldwide cooperation to track funds/terrorists. Has cut off much of the terrorists’ funding, and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network.
6. Initiated a comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, and which accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE capabilities were critical in the 21st Century.
7. Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses.
8. Has been one of the strongest, if not THE strongest friend Israel has ever hand in the U.S. presidency.
9. Part of the coalition for an Israeli/Palestinian “Roadmap to Peace,” along with Great Britain, Russia and the EU.
10. Pushed through THREE raises for our military. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year.
11. Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia.
12. Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia, and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.
13. Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command.
14. Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs.
15. Earmarked at least 20 percent of the Defense procurement budget for next-generation weaponry.
16. Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006.
17. Ordered a comprehensive review of military weapons and strategy.
18. Ordered a review of overseas deployments.
19. Ordered renovation of military housing. The military has already upgraded about 10 percent of its inventory and expects to modernize 76,000 additional homes this year.
20. Is working to tighten restrictions on military-technology exports.
21. Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed.
Globalization & Internationalism
1. Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become another League of Nations (in other words, showed the UN to be completely irrelevant).
2. Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court.
3. Told the United Nations we weren’t interested in their plans for gun control (i.e., the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty).
4. The only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: “The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?” We all know the outcome and the answer.
5. Told the Congress and the world, “America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country.”
Government Reform
1. Improved government efficiency by putting hundreds of thousands of jobs put up for bid. This weakens public-sector unions and cuts undeserved pay raises.
2. Initiated review of all federal agencies with the goal of eliminating federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of the federal government while increasing private sector jobs.
3. Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.
4. Ordered each agency to draft a five-year plan to restructure itself, with fewer managers.
5. Converted federal service contracts to performance-based contracts wherever possible so that the contractor has measurable performance goals.
Health
1. Strengthen the National Health Service Corps to put more physicians in the neediest areas, and make its scholarship funds tax-free.
2. Double the research budget of the National Institutes of Health.
3. Signed Medicare Reform, which includes:
A 10-year privatization option.
Prescription drug benefits: Prior to this reform, Medicare paid for extended hospital stays for ulcer surgery, for example, at a cost of about $28,000 per patient. Yet Medicare would not pay for the drugs that eliminate the cause of most ulcers, drugs that cost about $500 a year. Now, drug coverage under Medicare will allow seniors to replace more expensive surgeries and hospitalizations with less expensive prescription medicine.
More health care choices: As President Bush stated, “…when seniors have the ability to make choices, health care plans within Medicare will have to compete for their business by offering higher quality service [at lower cost]. For the seniors of America, more choices and more control will mean better health care. These are the kinds of health care options we give to the members of Congress and federal employees. What’s good for members of Congress is also good for seniors.
New Health Savings Accounts: Effective January 1, 2004, Americans can set aside up to $4,500 every year, tax free, to save for medical expenses. Depending on your tax bracket, that means you’ll save between 10 to 35 percent on any costs covered by money in your account. Every year, the money not spent would stay in the account and gain interest tax-free, just like an IRA. These accounts will be good for small business owners, and employees. More businesses can focus on covering workers for major medical problems, such as hospitalization for an injury or illness. At the same time, employees and their families will use these accounts to cover doctors visits, or lab tests, or other smaller costs. Some employers will contribute to employee health accounts. This will help more American families get the health care they need at the price they can afford.
Homeland Security, Border Enforcement & Immigration
1. *See Government Reform above. Under President Bush’s leadership, America has made an unprecedented commitment to homeland security.
2. Has CONSTRUCTION in process on the first 10 ABM silos in Alaska so that America will have a defense against North Korean nukes. Has ordered national and theater ballistic missile defenses to be deployed by 2004.
3. Announced a 9.7% increase in government-wide homeland security funding in his FY 2005 budget, nearly tripling the FY 2001 levels (excluding the Department of Defense and Project BioShield).
4. Before DHS was created, there were inspectors from three different agencies of the Federal Government and Border Patrol officers protecting our borders. Through DHS, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) now consolidates all border activities into a single agency to create “one face at the border.” This not only better secures the borders of the United States, but it also eliminates many of the inefficiencies that occurred under the old system. With over 18,000 CBP inspectors and 11,000 Border Patrol agents, CBP has 29,000 uniformed officers on our borders.
5. The Border Patrol is continuing installation of monitoring devices along the borders to detect illegal activity.
6. Launched Operation Tarmac to investigate businesses and workers in the secure areas of domestic airports and ensure immigration law compliance. Since 9/11, DHS has audited 3,640 businesses, examined 259,037 employee records, arrested 1,030 unauthorized workers, and participated in the criminal indictment of 774 individuals.
7. Since September 11, 2001, the Coast Guard has conducted more than 124,000 port security patrols, 13,000 air patrols, boarded more than 92,000 vessels, interdicted over 14,000 individuals attempting to enter the United States illegally, and created and maintained more than 90 Maritime Security Zones.
8. Announced the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS), an internet-based system that is improving America’s ability to track and monitor foreign students and exchange visitors. Over 870,000 students are registered in SEVIS. Of 285 completed field investigations, 71 aliens were arrested.
9. This week, the US-VISIT program began to digitally collect biometric identifiers to record the entry and exit of aliens who travel into the U.S on a visa. Together with the standard information, this new program will confirm compliance with visa and immigration policies.
10. Eliminated INS bureaucratic redundancies and lack of accountability.
11. Split the Immigration and Naturalization Service into two agencies: one to protect the border and interior, the other to deal with naturalization.
12. Signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal aliens.
13. Established a six-month deadline for processing immigration applications.
14. Information regarding nearly 100% of all containerized cargo is carefully screened by DHS before it arrives in the United States. Higher risk shipments are physically inspected for terrorist weapons and contraband prior to being released from the port of entry. Advanced technologies are being deployed to identify warning signs of chemical, biological, or radiological attacks. Since September 11, 2001, hundreds of thousands of first responders across America have been trained to recognize and respond to the effects of a WMD attack.
Judiciary & Tort Reform
1. Is urging federal liability reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits.
2. Killed the liberal ABA’s unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. The Senate is supposed to advise and consent, not the ABA.
3. Is nominating strong, conservative judges to the judiciary.
4. Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims.
Politics
1. His leadership resulted in Republican gains in the House and Senate, solidifying Republican control of both houses of Congress and the presidency.
2. Signed an EO enforcing the Supreme Court’s Beck decision regarding union dues being used for political campaigns against individual’s wishes.
Second Amendment
1. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined “collective” right.
2. Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit.
3. Currently pushing for full immunity from lawsuits for our national gun manufacturers.
4. *See Globalization & Internationalism.
Traditional Values, Compassion & Volunteerism
1. Endorses and promotes “The Responsibility Era.” President Bush often speaks of the necessity of personal responsibility and civic volunteerism. He said, “In a compassionate society, people respect one another and take responsibility for the decisions they make in life. My hope is to change the culture from one that has said, if it feels good, do it; if you’ve got a problem, blame somebody else — to one in which every single American understands that he or she is responsible for the decisions that you make; you’re responsible for loving your children with all your heart and all your soul; you’re responsible for being involved with the quality of the education of your children; you’re responsible for making sure the community in which you live is safe; you’re responsible for loving your neighbor, just like you would like to be loved yourself.”
2. Started the USA Freedom Corps, the most comprehensive clearinghouse of volunteer opportunities ever offered. For the first time in history, Americans can enter geographic information about where they want to get involved, such as state or zip code, as well as areas of interest ranging from education to the environment, and they can access volunteer opportunities offered by more than 50,000 organizations across the country and around the world.
3. Established the The White House Office and the Centers for the Faith-Based and Community Initiative — located in seven Federal agencies. The faith-based initiative supports the essential work of these important organizations. The goal is to make sure that grassroots leaders can compete on an equal footing for federal dollars, receive greater private support, and face fewer bureaucratic barriers. Work focuses on at-risk youth, ex-offenders, the homeless and hungry, substance abusers, those with HIV/AIDS, and welfare-to-work families.
4. The White House released a guidebook fully describing the Administration’s belief that faith-based groups have a Constitutionally-protected right to maintain their religious identity through hiring — even when Federal funds are involved.
5. Issued an EO implementing the Supreme Court’s Olmstead ruling, which requires moving disabled people from institutions to community-based facilities when possible.
6.Increased funding for low-interest loan programs to help people with disabilities purchase devices to assist them.
7. Revised the Department of Housing and Urban Development’s Section 8 rent subsidies to disabled people, permitting them to use up to a year’s worth of vouchers to finance down payments on homes. HUD has started pilot programs in 11 states.
8. Committed US funds to purchase medicine for millions of men, women and children now suffering with AIDS in Africa.
9. Heeding the words of our own Declaration of Independence, the president laid out the non-negotiable demands of human dignity for all people everywhere. On January 29, 2002, he said, “No nation owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity.” As stated by the President, they are a virtual manifesto of conservative principles
SolDevVBYou asked”Kinda my point. The idea of patenting seeds seems ludicrous. How can you maintain the gene line when you have field after field of vegetation growing?”
Posted by: SolDevVB | August 02, 2007 at 12:32 PM
I answered. Why do you have a problem with that?
Your next question
“Should the traditional farmers be impacted by another farmer who purchased ’super seed’”
My answer. No. However, in the one case cited above, a traditional farmer was impacted by “blown seed”and reaped the harvest. Not the the other way around. But to answer your question directly: No, the traditional farmer should not be impacted by the “super seed” and if negatively impacted, should have redress rights against the super seed company.
Surrendercrats cannot have an dissention amongst their ranks.
Sad, but true, the party of cut and run cannot support another war.
We aren’t gonna study war no mo,we aren’t gonna study war no,mo.
WASHINGTON — Illinois Sen. Barack Obama’s Democratic presidential rivals slammed him Wednesday, calling it a sign of inexperience to suggest sending GIs to Pakistan to hunt down Al Qaeda terrorists, declaring that, “if President Musharraf won’t act, we will.”
“Frankly, I am not sure what Barack is calling for in his speech this morning. But it is dangerous and irresponsible to leave even the impression the United States would needlessly and publicly provoke a nuclear power,” said Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn.
LJ,
This is what is happening based on the cases Farmie introduced.
I have problems with GM products. That is my deal and I have to watch what I buy.
If a farmer wants to go GM, bully for him. But that choice DOES impact other people. Should another farmer be the victim/profiteer of blown seed, then I may get that product – through the fault of NATURE. But should I be negatively impacted, or the –traditional- farmer be impacted….
God Bless our President ,
Post a damn LINK !!!!!! Wow, talk about scroll over…
Can’t go to Paki and get the guy. Heaven forbid a liberal even MENTION the thought.
No mo war!!
CAIRO, Egypt — Web sites usually used by Islamic militant groups announced a new, major Al Qaeda video would be released soon.
“Coming soon God willing? Wait for the big surprise,” said an Internet banner Thursday next to a Web animation that shows photos Al Qaeda chief Usama bin Laden and some of his key deputies, along with pictures of U.S. President George W. Bush and Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan.
Post a damn LINK !!!!!! Wow, talk about scroll over… Posted by: SolDevVB | August 02, 2007 at 12:53 PM
I continually pray that he makes good decisions. To do less, would be be to put party before our Nation.
No link on widely known facts.
CF the question is still the same. Where is the connection between Rove and the voting records? It might be a problem of perception on your part. You really shouldn’t spread rumors. You get labeled a conspiracy wing nut that way.
Sol-have it your way. The discussion is going nowhere. And Ksfarmgrrl posted erroneous information about the iraqui tomato. One clarified by a major source of that informaiton. And the other case, about the wheat? How was he negatively impacted? SOunds like he benefitted to me. THe potatoe thing, more research is needed.
As far as I am concerned, I have worries about GM products. I have concerns about unintended consequences, and I do worry abou the move toward monoculture agrigulture. That was not my point. My point was that either the developers have ownership of their product, or they do not. If they do not, then they should stop. IF they do, then they deserve the financial rewards, and stealing the product by claiming”natural pollination” is subject to investigation as to the reality of the “natural” part.
Guess Americans aren’t buying the Great Economy BS.Two-thirds of Americans see recession in the works 37 minutes ago
NEW YORK (Reuters) – Just over two-thirds of Americans believe the country is either already in recession or headed for one over the coming year, according to a new poll conducted jointly by The Wall Street Journal and NBC.
ADVERTISEMENTNearly half the survey respondents, 46 percent, believed a recession was already under way.
The conviction comes despite a 3.4 percent rebound in economic growth during the second quarter, according to Commerce Department data released last week.
A recession is generally defined as two consecutive quarters of declines in gross domestic product.
Turning points in the economy are notoriously difficult to predict. In 2001, many Wall Street and government forecasters waited until growth had already turned negative before acknowledging a period of contraction.
Some info on cross-pollination of plants, and saving seeds,http://www.seedsofchange.com/digging/saving_seeds.asp
And a good source re GMO’s, pharma, antibiotics in food, etc.http://www.ucsusa.org/food_and_environment/
“You get labeled a conspiracy wing nut that way.
Posted by: ksgrm | August 02, 2007 at 01:03 PM ”
There is quite a knack by some regulars here to try to label everyone.
Cosmos-WHile the UCS is often seen by me as way off track, I think they have some legitimate concerns with ge and gm foods. I buy me meat, eggs, and many vegetables locally, from growers i know, and know their practices. I would suggest everyone do the same. I have suggested that for a long time.
“And the other case, about the wheat? How was he negatively impacted? SOunds like he benefitted to me.”
“As far as I am concerned, I have worries about GM products. I have concerns about unintended consequences”
The above statements contradict each other.
“Sol-have it your way.”
It isn’t my way or your way. It is a discussion about what is right and just.
“My point was that either the developers have ownership of their product, or they do not.”The point of the discussion was the boundaries of those rights. As listed above, there are several factors involved with non-participating entities.
“and stealing the product by claiming”natural pollination” is subject to investigation as to the reality of the “natural” part.”
Can you control nature? The wind? The pollinating insects that all farmers need?Pretty deep LJ.
Well Phantom since the economic markers tell you that no recession is already underway, where would the 46% who think this get the wrong information that made them form this opinion? Could it be the liberal media that tries everyday to talk down the economy? Imagine that.
I just heard that Kansas collected more state taxes than they anticipated. Could this be because business is better and people are spending more?
Two democrats this past week expressed displeasure that the Iraq conflict was going better. Boyda just walked out on Jack Keane, an invited speaker at a hearing she was a part of. The SC congressman just flat out said that success in Iraq was bad for the democrats.
How much of this do you see in the everyday news.
Fact: Poll results are not actual facts. They are opinions and are given more space in our newspapers than actual facts as spoken by economists. Look harder next time and you might really find a news story instead of the pablum the liberal media chooses to feed you.
hmmm, bunch of city rubes discussing farming.
Surprised no one commented on my “volunteer” potato plants joke. :D
Kansas, it’s hard to “groan” when blogging. :-)
Well Vaughn, I was implying that potato plants (especially 10 acres of them) can hardly be “volunteer” plants as “seed potatoes” have a hard time blowing about in the wind. :D
Kansas, got it the first time. But thanks for the explanation (yep, done a bit of potato planting in my time).
Why you old ‘tater’ farmer Vaughn. :D
“And the other case, about the wheat? How was he negatively impacted? SOunds like he benefitted to me.”
“As far as I am concerned, I have worries about GM products. I have concerns about unintended consequences”
The above statements contradict each other.
Do not be so dense. He obviusly thought he benefitted from the modified grain,or he wouldn;t have planted how many acres? 1000? For him, in his opinion, it was an economic benefit.
That does not contradict with mMY feelings about GM foods. I am not a producer. I pay a financial penalty for buying non gm foods, when available.
How is that contradictory? short answer. It is not.
a little longer answer. GM foods can be financially rewarding in the short run, possibly disastrous in the long run.
Pleas learn to separate ideas. It makes discussion much easier
Can you control nature? The wind? The pollinating insects that all farmers need?
So, since they cannot control their product, in my opinion, they cannot reap any reward using your scenario, so they shouild abandon any such research, using your scenarios.
Again, because I have a concern with gm foods, I got no problem with that.
Puts on “Dust in the Wind” song for the open thread.
ksgrm: She walked out because the General was “ALLOWED” to speak positives. My goodness, we wouldn’t want the American people to hear the truth would we?
How much of this do you see in the everyday news. Posted by: ksgrm | August 02, 2007 at 01:20 PM
http://www.bizzyblog.com/2007/07/30/how-will-old-media-cover-kansas-congresswoman-keane-testimony-temper-tantrum/
Nancy Bodya Shows ‘Em How to Surrenderby Patrick Hynes @ 4:15 pm. Filed under Politics, War On Terror
As you may know, Iraq isn’t going quite as badly as our friends on the Left would like it to. Most of them would just as soon up and quit the war and cede that region to the terrorists.
But freshman Rep. Nancy Bodya (D-KS) is leading her colleagues by example. According to the transcript of the July 27th House Armed Services Committee hearing, Rep. Bodya just up and walked out of the committee room because retired Army General Jack Keane was allowed to profile some of the positive stories coming out of that long-suffering part of the world.
And I just will make some statements more for the record based on what I heard from — mainly from General Keane. As many of us — there was only so much that you could take until we in fact had to leave the room for a while. So I think I am back and maybe can articulate some things — after so much of the frustration of having to listen to what we listened to.
I hope our brave fighting men and women know that Rep. Bodya does not speak for the vast majority of Americans who would never walk out on them.
http://www.anklebitingpundits.com/content/?p=2445
Talk about making Kansas look bad in front of our nation!!
Well Vaughn, I was implying that potato plants (especially 10 acres of them) can hardly be “volunteer” plants as “seed potatoes” have a hard time blowing about in the wind. :D
Posted by: Kansas | August 02, 2007 at 01:26 PM
http://www.soilassociation.org/web/sa/saweb.nsf/d39dda83e1f3c019802570ad005b4516/e574feb4235563c680257237003a9538?OpenDocument
“However, there is still a risk of [GM] contamination from cross-pollination in later years via potato volunteers (’ground keepers’).”
More at link.
It was a joke cosmos, I already killed it by over analyzing it.
Get a sense of humor cosmos.
ksgrm you will see negatives on the democrats on the web and radio talk shows. But not in the press or television. Maybe that’s why those two mediums are loosing audience share?
Without a fairness doctrine, or taxing the internet as a method of gaining control, will the few ever completely dominate the majority.
I’ve got a sense of humor — I was providing info on a serious topic.
‘Potatoes from True Seed’ (not the tuber)http://www.worldandi.com/public/1987/june/ns3.cfm
http://www.bejoseeds.com/potato/“The true seed of potato is small, with about 40,000 seeds to the ounce, and they look like small tomato seeds.”
The pro-abortion State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) bill passed the U.S. House shortly after 7:30 pm Wednesday by a 225-204 vote. Five Republicans voted in favor of the bill, and 10 Democrats voted against it. Besides gutting pro-life provisions for unborn children, the bill is a step toward nationalized health care (=socialized medicine), and provides benefits for illegal aliens, requiring a huge tax increase.President Bush will veto the bill, if the Senate version looks like this one.
President Bush will veto the bill, if the Senate version looks like this one. Posted by: parkay | August 02, 2007 at 02:22 PM
Not to worry. Besides the republicans who will disagree on principle, the healthcare industry has invested heavily on both sides of the aisle. Money talks.
http://www.ksn.com/news/local/8858357.html
Diabetic woman loses assault case against city
“DeLeon suffered severe bruises and a broken arm. She sued the officers and the city, claiming they violated her Fourth Amendment right to be free from excessive use of force. But a federal judge ruled against DeLeon this week. In court papers, it says DeLeon showed no evidence that officers should have known about her diabetic reaction. There was also no evidence that additional training in the police department would have resulted in different treatment that night.
Finally, the judge found the evidence failed to show illegal use of force. In the court’s eyes, the officers’ actions were legal because they thought they were responding to a drunk driver who refused to respond to their orders.
Wichita City Attorney Gary Rebenstorf told us he is pleased with the judgment, and he’s glad the officers’ conduct was recognized as being appropriate under the circumstances.”
That last quote is what gets me. Looking at the pictures of this woman, it’s hard to imagine that this kind of force would be necessary on a 250 lb. man who is swinging his fists, and when you see the video, she is just like a limp rag. I don’t see the resistance that would merit this kind of physical force from trained police officers.
The fact that she was a diabetic should make no difference. The cops had no way of knowing that. However, without seeing the video, and just looking at the victim, the cops were WAY out of line. Looks like they beat her to a pulp!
But you don’t see the ‘beating’ on the video. Ther weren’t gentle getting her out of the car, but where did the two shiners come from? I didn’t see anyone around her face.
Sol – it appeared to me that once she was drug out of the car by the one police office and was on the ground, that he DID swing and hit her at least twice.
LJ – if you go to the link, you can see the video. She doesn’t seem to be resisting to me, and as Sol pointed out, he couldn’t see any beating. It appeared to me that she was hit at least twice by the officer that pulled her out, but I of course could be wrong.
You can get shiners from a broken nose, jaw or forehead bruise. I got hit in the head with a basketball once right above my left eye. Both eyes developed shiners.
It didn’t even hurt that much. Stung, but not hurt.
There is no excuse to abuse anyone, even if they’re resisting. When I worked in a psychiatric unit in the hospital, patients would often get violent and out of control and we NEVER hurt them when getting them subdued. If one is properly trained, no one should get hurt. Whenever I see video of some cop punching someone they’re trying to arrest, it’s always because the cop is out of control, not the other way around. No excuses.
Testing 1, 2, 3. Test. Test.
ping… ping….. ping…. pong!!!
After seeing that video, I would agree with you Mary Caruso… NO excuses — I thikk the WPD got a walk on this one… And besides, I believe that Police Academy training teaches officers to recognize things like diabetic shock, epileptic seizure, etc…
Republican Troll’s of the Blog (RTB)
Basic Skills Troll Training (BST) formerly known as Essential Skills Training (EST).
All trolls in grades T1-T5 are scheduled for BST training during the month ofAugust. Trolls in the Senior Non-Commissioned Troll (SNCT) are also scheduledfor training during this period. Course description, location, and dates for SNCTtraining is TBD.
The following schedule applies:
Grades T1-T5
“The Basic Art of trolling” Provides basic skills related to liberal blog insertion, basic understanding of the democratic koolaid and associated tape recordings. (Troll Government equalivent of 3 semester hours, or 50 Gold Bond Stamps)
“Trolling through the night” Provides skills needed to remain alert and provide effective conservative opinions after having worked a full eight hour day to pay taxes. Course provides basic’s in late night coffee brewing, head call breaks, not waking the kids, and gawd forbid, not waking the old lady. (GE 2 sem hrs/30 GBS’s)
“Non-Commissioned Troll leadership” Provides basics needed to lead fellow trolls on the assigned blog. Incognito reconnaissance, proper front and rear opinion site alignment,and the basic troll leading steps: Begin Planning, Arrange for Recon, Make Recon, Complete the republican plan, Issue the Order, and Supervise (BAMCIS). (No college credits/troll orientated training)
Courses begin at 0800 immediately following morning colors.Course location: Moria Cave # 303
I hope the diabetic woman appeals. This was one of those cases that is a no=brainer. I often support the police, but not in this case. Too many people have diabetes, and cops DO get training on identifying diabetic (or OTHER disabilities) vs someone who is fighting them on purpose.
And the difference though Mary, you are in a semi-controlled setting…the police officers have no way to know if a psych patient has a gun nor another weapon. I have been beaten up by a one-armed, one-legged stroke & alzheimer’s patient who was 80 lbs soaking wet. I was only trying to give her a bath, never even touched her but she sure got me.
LOL
Human Resources Troll,
Can you give them a 5 paragraph order too!?
Why doesn’t the MSM put out the ‘happy’ news in Iraq, instead of crap like this!Water taps run dry in Baghdad By STEVEN R. HURST, Associated Press Writer
Thu Aug 2, 2:19 PM ET
BAGHDAD – Much of the Iraqi capital was without running water Thursday and had been for at least 24 hours, compounding the urban misery in a war zone and the blistering heat at the height of the Baghdad summer.
ADVERTISEMENTResidents and city officials said large sections in the west of the capital had been virtually dry for six days because the already strained electricity grid cannot provide sufficient power to run water purification and pumping stations.
Baghdad routinely suffers from periodic water outages, but this one is described by residents as one of the most extended and widespread in recent memory. The problem highlights the larger difficulties in a capital beset by violence, crumbling infrastructure, rampant crime and too little electricity to keep cool in the sweltering weather more than four years after the U.S.-led invasion.
Jamil Hussein, a 52-year-old retired army officer who lives in northeast Baghdad, said his house has been without water for two weeks, except for two hours at night. He says the water that does flow smells and is unclean.
Two of his children have severe diarrhea that the doctor attributed to drinking what tap water was available, even after it was boiled.
“We’ll have to continue drinking it, because we don’t have money to buy bottled water,” he said.
Adel al-Ardawi, a spokesman for the Baghdad city government, said that even with sufficient electricity “it would take 24 hours for the water mains to refill so we can begin pumping to residents. And even then the water won’t be clean for a time. We just don’t have the electricity or fuel for our generators to keep the system flowing.”
Noah Miller, spokesman for the U.S. reconstruction program in Baghdad, said that water treatment plants were working “as far as we know.”
“It could be a host of issues. … And one of those may be leaky trunk lines. If there’s not enough pressure to cancel out that leakage, that’s when the water could fail to reach the household,” Miller said.
He said that there had been a nationwide power blackout for a few hours Wednesday night that might be causing problems for all systems that depend on Iraq’s already creaking electricity grid.
He blamed the outages on provinces north of Baghdad and in Basra in the far south where officials failed to cutback as required when they had taken their daily ration of electricity.
“It takes a long time to bring the power back up (to the grid’s capacity and demand),” Miller said.
In the meantime, Iraqis suffer in brutal heat. It was 117 degrees in the capital Thursday, down from 120 the day before. With the power out or crackling through the decrepit system just a few hours each day, even those who can afford air conditioning do not have the power to run it.
Many Baghdad residents have banded together to use power from neighborhood generators, but the cost of fuel and therefore electricity is skyrocketing. Diesel fuel was going for nearly $4 a gallon on Thursday.
As expected in the midst of a water shortage, the cost of purified bottled water has shot up 33 percent. A 10-liter bottle now costs $1.60.
“For us, we can buy bottled water. But I’m thinking about the poor who cannot afford to buy clean water,” said Um Zainab, a 44-year-old homemaker in eastern Baghdad. “This shows the weakness and the inefficiency of government officials who are good at only one thing — blaming each other for the problems we are face.”
The pace of the mayhem that saw 142 killed or found dead nationwide on Wednesday tapered off Thursday, but a suicide car bomber slammed into an Iraqi police station northeast of Baghdad and killed at least 13 people, police said.
Most of the dead were policemen and recruits lining up outside the station in Hibhib, the same small Sunni town near Baqouba where al-Qaida in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed in a U.S. airstrike more than a year ago. The area is considered a stronghold of both al-Qaida-linked militants and Saddam Hussein loyalists.
Fifteen were wounded in the attack, a police officer said on condition of anonymity out of security concerns.
A total of 58 people were killed or found dead across the country Thursday, according to police and hospital and morgue officials.
The U.S. military announced three more soldier deaths: two killed in a mortar or rocket attack Tuesday, and another killed in a roadside bombing Wednesday. At least 3,659 U.S. military personnel have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count. The figure includes seven military civilians.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Thursday he is more optimistic about improvements in Iraqi security than he is about getting legislation passed by the bitterly divided government.
“In some ways we probably all underestimated the depth of the mistrust and how difficult it would be for these guys to come together on legislation,” Gates said.
His remarks came as Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s Dawa Party asked the country’s largest Sunni Arab bloc to reconsider its withdrawal from government to save Iraq’s national unity government.
All six Cabinet ministers from the Iraqi Accordance Front quit al-Maliki’s Cabinet a day earlier to protest what they called the prime minister’s failure to respond to a set of demands.
Among them were the release of security detainees not charged with specific crimes, the disbanding of militias and the participation of all groups represented in the government in dealing with security issues.
Washington has been pushing al-Maliki’s government to pass key laws, including measures to share national oil revenues and incorporate some ousted Baathists into mainstream politics. But the Sunni ministers’ resignation from the Cabinet — not the parliament — foreshadows even greater difficulty in building consensus when lawmakers return after a monthlong summer recess on Sept. 4.
___
AP writers Kim Gamel and Sameer N. Yacoub contributed to this report.
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Wisen up people. It is the “casino bosses” of OTHER regional casinos who are paying for the “Vote No” ads.