Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- Daniel on ACORN stole election?
- Daniel on Open thread 11/21
- satatom on Open thread 11/21
- satatom on ACORN stole election?
- Wahine_Tara on Open thread 11/21
- Wahine_Tara on Open thread 11/21
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/21
- Boxlock20 on Open thread 11/21
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/21
- JWink on Will GOP contenders be nice to Obama?
Open thread 8/19
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Aug. 19, 2007 at 1:06 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
- Permalink
- Comments RSS
- Both comments and trackbacks are closed
221 Comments
Conservative’s first on board!
Stand tall and proud. Red State Kansas sends her best!
(actually sitting it is way past my working man’s bedtime.)
Yep, a Conservative who doesn’t know proper usage (Conservative’s) and has nothing constructive to say.
Does a neo con ever have anything smart to say? Not very often. Does a traditional con ever have anything smart to say? A little more often.
Are human beings capable of intelligent thought? — not very often.
I hope the Blog is better today than yesterday!!
An interesting poll on CNN this morning.
“Would you fight for your religion?”
37% say yes63% say noI find that deeply troubling.
Beat your swords into ploughshares, and your spears into pruning hooks… (Isaiah, Old Testament)
PEACE I leave you, not as the world gives, do I give you PEACE… (Jesus Christ, New Testament)
All the martyrs of the Roman Empire died for believing their faith… not fighting for it…
Seems like people fighting and dying for their religion has always been the underlying issue to many of the world’s problems. Just look at the Middle East. Religion has it’s place, but not in government or as a factor in determining public policies.
Exactly, Mary Caruso
The CNN poll as it’s presented here:
“Would you fight for your religion?”
Is pretty open-ended.
Does it mean ‘kill’, ‘use nuclear weapons’, ‘commit genocide’ for your religion?
Or does it simply mean ‘argue ‘ for your religion?
A friend of mine a few years back hooked up with the Hare’ Krsna Temple in LA (really great Indian cuisine). While walking the streets chanting one day a Mexican gang confronted them and disrespected them.
One of the Krsna’s immediately grabbed the Mexican leader and put him in a hold where he could break his neck if he wanted.
He told the gang leader that while he may think they are weak, they are not.
The gang leader was forced to apologize and never bothered the Krsna’s again.
THAT kind of fighting for your religion?
Troubling in what sense XXX? I saw that poll question. It is a pretty silly question as most polls are. Do they mean a fist fight with someone taunting your religion, fighting the banning of your faith by a government, or to go to war because a religious leader says so?
I would say the poll is meaningless.
For once I agree with you daddy!
Why doesnt somebody post the link to the Actual Poll, so we can all see what it is we are supposedly talking about here?? I dont seem to be able to find that Poll???
Wow, I had an on-line kid! This has to be a first.
This changes everything. Now I can’t be mean or cuss or do anything that might embarrass “Dish”.
Now “Dish”, I’ve seen some of your other comments. Quit being so rebellious.
Hey, outlander, who you been messin round with on the Blog??? ROFLMAO!!!
Chas: Stop it. You’re making Dish feel inferior.
Hey, it isnt often somebody gives birth on the Blog… LOL
;)
The poll is simply posted on the front page of http://www.cnn.com . An online interactive poll. Hardly scientific. Only the one question as xxx wrote it here.
Worthless. If you make a conclusion based on it, like our self-proclaimed religious leader Chas, then welcome to the bias bandwagon. You have to fill in so many blanks (about what is ‘fight’) that it can only show your true colors.
Hey, I made no conclusions based on any Poll… in fact, I asked to SEE it… because there isnt enough there to reach any conclusion!! C’mon, now, lets at least start off READING what is posted today??
This would appear to be the story supposedly “related” to the Poll Question….
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/gods.warriors/
Not sure if it is that related…
Is there anyone who can name the Republican candidate that has the slightest chance of WINNING the Presidency in ‘08?
IMO, the only one might be Ron Paul, if the Party would get over his anti-war status, and get behind his campaign…
It has now been 17 hours since Horst Wessel posted violent hate speech on the Illegal Immigrants thread.
Phillip Brownlee has assured us that all we need to do is notify them of posts that go over the line and they will be pulled.
If they are not pulled in a timely manner however, it does no good.
The Eagle needs to get some moderators in place to clean this up.
Imagine if someone posted that Bin Laden is right and terrorism against the US citizens is right and justified and God wills for Americans to die horrible painful deaths at the hands of terrorism and exhorts readers to commit acts of mass murder.
That’s not free speech.
The Eagle has responsibility for what is posted here.
They need to exercise that responsibilty or just shut the damn thing down.
Sigh. . .
Beat your swords into ploughshares, and your spears into pruning hooks… (Isaiah, Old Testament)
PEACE I leave you, not as the world gives, do I give you PEACE… (Jesus Christ, New Testament)
Posted by: Chas. | August 19, 2007 at 07:16 AM
All the martyrs of the Roman Empire died for believing their faith… not fighting for it…
Posted by: Chas. | August 19, 2007 at 07:17 AM
Let’s start the day by reading what you wrote. Long before you asked to see the poll.
CapnAmerica, why is your example not free speech?
Proudman, Those are NOT conclusions… Those are responses to XXX’s comment…. Geez… Like I said, READ!!
And that is my LAST response today to any of the usual Ad Hominem’s any troll-like spinsters want to throw out today…
ProudMan — Krsna is the one who went off on a search for what “fight” means…
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/open-thread-819.html#comment-79959033
Anonymous–
Because it encourages violence against people.
This is why we bomb madrasses, because they inculcate hate against Americans that leads to our deaths.
Try posting death threats against high government officials, anonymous. See who shows up at your door with a badge and a warrant to come in.
Chas learn to write what you think you mean 10 minutes later the first time. You don’t mention XXX, only jumping to statements to back up a philosophy that you shouldn’t fight for your religion.
Two interesting things for a so-called pastor on this one. First, your communication skills need work. Second, you don’t advocate fighting, even for your religion. Which is downright funny considering that the arguments you find yourself in here are ‘fights’.
Anything else about yourself you need to know?
I told you before, I am not answering Ad Hominem’s… And if you cant read context on the Blog, that sounds like YOUR problem… not mine…
Jesus said, If you go into a town, and they do not receive you, shake the dust off of your shoes, and go on… He does NOT say to stand your ground and FIGHT!!
Good show, Chas.
You don’t owe the haters anything.
BTW, Chas., I e-mailed a bunch of regulars asking them to ask P. Brownlee to get off his butt and deal with the hate posts.
His “solution” (to just e-mail him and he’ll pull them) doesn’t work in a timely manner.
I don’t have your e-mail in my addresses file yet so you didn’t get a copy, but feel free to join in.
I’m going to cut and paste right now and send to organizations that monitor hate speech and hopefully THEY will be able to put some pressure on the WEBlog to clean itself up.
Some of the most faithful to their religion also are pacifist- buddhists, mennonites, Jehovah’s witnesses…I’m not a pacifist per-se but I don’t believe in fighting unless it’s truly the last choice.So quit picking on them ok.You warmongers are always so quick to want to take someone else out.
AaaaMen!!
political_mama??? huh???
Peculiar, the early sermon was on War. :)
===========Let’s see the U.S. War’s with Religion as the cause. Can’t think of any.
Some would relate to the War on Terror as being a religious war, but it is actually against extremists. All of the 911 bombers were very secular in their life although they did hold a Muslim faith belief.====================
I’ll volunteer to be the WE Blog Monitor as I have experience in TypePad Blogs and as a Moderator in chat rooms.
Of course I would have to give up posting as it would be a conflict.=============
Praying that the Hurricanes and Typhoons spare the lives in the areas affected.
Brad,
You are one of the worst ‘haters’ ever to grace this blog.
Naturally you want your big brother to join in and put a stop to things you don’t like. Go take a hard look at yourself and ask why you always want to force the world around you to conform to your view.
You’re entitled to your view, PM.
If one or more of my posts exhibit hate-speech, racism, sexism, homophobia, or foment violence against any group of Americans, I DEMAND that it be pulled.
I’ll volunteer to be the WE Blog Monitor as I have experience in TypePad Blogs and as a Moderator in chat rooms.Posted by: Kansas | August 19, 2007 at 10:43 AM
BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!
Thanks, I needed a good laugh this morning.
Comments policyAlthough we are not responsible for the content of the comments on this blog and have NO OBLIGATION TO MONITOR THEM, we reserve the right to remove any comments that are threatening, libelous, obscene or otherwise objectionable.
WE’s position as well is that they cannot be held accountable if they ‘post’ or allow to be posted libel, threats, hate speech, pornography, etc.
I have argued in the past that WE IS responsible for what is in the blog just as if they PUBLISHED the same things in their newspaper.
As yet it is a grey area but I believe the time will come when WE will be held accountable for what they allow to be ‘published’ to the web.
“An interesting poll on CNN this morning.
“Would you fight for your religion?”
37% say yes63% say noI find that deeply troubling.”
I guess that they didn’t call too many Muslims.
Damn right, Happy.
They screen everything that appears in their paper, and they should do it here.
Providing the opportunity for comments implies RESPONSIBILITY.
It’s like if I allow neighborhood kids to play in my vacant lot and vandals drive by and throw broken bottles into the play area.
It’s my responsibility to clean up the trash that poses a risk.
Although you don’t think much of me Tom, you would find me to be a fair and equal monitor. Plus I have experience in monitoring “lively” debates. :)
Trying to reform yourself Brad?
Not a F%ck You?
Actually saying that someone is entitled to a viewpoint besides yours? In the past that is the definition of hate speech for you.
Did you stop drinking the Stalinist Kool-Aid?
PM–
It’s bad form to use real names.
Thank you.
“Imagine if someone posted that Bin Laden is right and terrorism against the US citizens is right and justified and God wills for Americans to die horrible painful deaths at the hands of terrorism and exhorts readers to commit acts of mass murder.
That’s not free speech.
The Eagle has responsibility for what is posted here.”
That is free speech and the Eagle has not either the reponsibility nor the desire to police these boards. As I said before, they will simply do as Yahoo and the Salina Journal did and shut them down if they become too much of a pain in the ass. If you don’t like what somebody post, either ignore it or argue with them.
I’m starting to see Kansas in a new light.
As far as I can tell, he’s been a thoughtful contributor — not a disruptor — to the Blog for going on several weeks now if not longer.
I ready to declare a detante with Kansas and I hope the other posters will as well.
The truth is that WE is run on a shoestring budget and won’t allocate $$$ to monitor something that less than 50 people care about.
Until of course, that day when they have to pull their lawyers out because thay HAVE published something they shouldn’t have.
In the meantime, with all the pornography posted on these blogs, ‘community standards’ is having its bar lowered everyday by your everluvin’ local newspaper.
Kev–
That’s all good and fine for the average irritating post.
But it’s not good and fine for ILLEGAL posts.
You’re saying we should just ignore a drunk driver swerving all over the road or a pervert stalking a kid’s playground.
That’s not responsible.
“But, as a Zionists, why would you care. You just get congress to bleed our Treasury for you needs.Posted by: Ed Friedemann”
“Ed, my investments are doing just fine, heh? Maybe if you took off a few layers of hate off your shoulders, the self-pity, and loathing racism, you might advance yourself and thereby your people as a whole.
There is an old saying that applies yes?
You cannot open a shop unless you know how to smile.”
“Posted by: Abraham Silberstein | August 18, 2007 at 04:52 PM”
*******************************
Notice how Abraham avoids dealing with the issue, and immediatlely changes the debate to “poor hated Abraham”
The Issue I raised has merit, but Abraham doesn’t have a reasonable answer to debate, and as a result pulls the same old Zionist-trick of changing the subject to “shooting the messenger”
In a way it’s sad. Sad that the Abrahams are so worthless that they can’t find anyway to defend themselves or their rotten behaviour other than accuse the other-side of being unfair by simply asking the question or offering the debating point.
“”Ed, my investments are doing just fine, heh?”
If that is true, why the need to make the American cough-up 3 billion on Friday Aug, 17, 2007, as that bill sailed through congress in the dead of night?
And it has been debated even in Israel as being unnecessary?
The dangers of trying to live in a myth.
“I’ll volunteer to be the WE Blog Monitor as I have experience in TypePad Blogs and as a Moderator in chat rooms.
Of course I would have to give up posting as it would be a conflict.=============
Praying that the Hurricanes and Typhoons spare the lives in the areas affected.”
Right. And of course you- a right wing neo con could be “fair and balanced” in which post you delete and which you allow, right? Wouldn’t be a Democratic post left on here! No thanks. I will just put up with the nutcases for now.
To the blogger who doesn’t think real names should be used.
Go over your posts to Econ101. You might notice a name coming out here and there.
And let me add that any Republican that says he is “praying” for the people in the path of the hurricanes is telling a LIE too. The people in the path of this one are all black and brown people. If anything the Republicans are praying that they get killed by it. Now, if it were headed to Boca Raton or Palm Beach THEN the Republicans would certainly pray for the people in its path.
Actually, PM, I am trying to reform myself.
It’s that “personal responsibility” thing you CONs are always talking about.
I’ll still call you CONs though . . . heh.
IMO, the only one might be Ron Paul, if the Party would get over his anti-war status, and get behind his campaign…
Posted by: Chas. | August 19, 2007 at 09:47 AM
Thank you Chas.
I’m 100% certain that Hillary will win just because the Republicans (as yet) don’t even have a clue as to what the people want.
Ron Paul is way to ‘liberal’ for the Republicans.
Well, I know Econ’s real name but I don’t think I’ve used it.
Anyway, you’re right, I should have said something to them too . . .
I hope, CapnAmerica, that you are not advocating the type of restrictions on speech that it seems you are.
Even if someone’s speech is ____ (fill in here from the list you provided), it is merely speech. It may hurt someone’s feelings, granted, but speech alone cannot hurt them.
Ad you know that as a libertarian, I subscribe to that philosophy’s first axiom, which is nonagression.
There can be no doubt when a person has physically harmed another, or even when they have used the threat of force. But a threat has to be credible to be real, and anonymous blog postings, in my opinion, don’t count for that.
Otherwise, and I do agree with ProudMan on this, some of your postings constitute threats.
Capn,
Just last weekend, in the midst of a completely unrelated conversation with another blogger, the troll jumped into the middle and accused me of lying about my family. He did so in a way that was incredibly demeaning to me, my partner, and the memory of both our deceased fathers.
There’s no reform here. He may have toned down a little of his rhetoric, but I think it’s only because he’s had to. I’d speculate that after he had several threatening posts deleted by the WEBlog editors, he’s been told to dial it back or else.
But IMO, he’s the same nasty little troll he’s always been.
He is trying to reform. . .
As am I. . . .
Which is the key reason I don’t post much anymore.
You get in one foul mood or see someone misrepresenting something dear to you. . .
Proudman,
How many of your posts have been deleted by the WEBlog editors?
On the whole debate over whether the WEBlog editors, and the Eagle, have any legal responsibility to monitor or clean this blog, here’s an Electronic Frontier Foundation FAQ that can provide some insight:
http://www.eff.org/bloggers/lg/faq-230.php
An excerpt:
“Your readers’ comments, entries written by guest bloggers, tips sent by email, and information provided to you through an RSS feed would all likely be considered information provided by another content provider. This would mean that you would not be held liable for defamatory statements contained in it.”
Tom,
As far as I know none.
“And let me add that any Republican that says he is “praying” for the people in the path of the hurricanes is telling a LIE too.”
Now this is the kind of thing that I don’t understand. It’s one thing to disagree with someone politically, it’s a whole nother thing to say that the opposite political party wishes for a whole people group to die. And you people wonder how this blog gets so hostile….
Proudman,
Making snarky comments is one thing – we all (or mostly all) do it.
But the poster I refer to as “troll” has had at least three posts, that I know of, deleted. All three were of a personally threatening nature towards other posters on this blog.
Even though you and I disagree on many of the topics discussed on this blog, I’ve never seen you say anything that was so completely offensive or threatening it’s needed to be deleted. You stridently defend your views, but I’m not sure what it is you’re trying to “reform.”
Thanks Tom for the link.
What I’m getting is that WE can be held accountable for what it publishes in violation of FEDERAL law {i.e. child pornography, certain obscenities, Copyright violations (which happens alot on these blogs), etc.}
Not sure if hate speech is a Federal violation or not.
Happy,
Hate speech is not a crime. Committing violent crimes that can be proven to be motivated by hate is a crime that leads to enhanced sentencing in Federal, Kansas, and other state courts. However, the only “hate crimes” that are recognized as such are those covered in short-lists of enumerated protected classes.
You know Tom I have apologized to you and KFG.
It’s up to you how you want to handle that apology.
It was in bad form and conduct that I made those posts and they were deleted.
I did apologize.
However, it is also in bad form to keep pounding me over the head daily about those posts which have been deleted.
Capn and I have had our turns for the worse with each other, but we move on and have moved on. I find now that even if I disagree with his posts, there is no reason for me to attack him personally about posting it.
I had a bit of a setback with JB last night and should have written some of the things, but it was a spirited discussion. I hope he enjoyed it and as I did. We both did our share of mud slinging, but I see that both JB and I are on the mend and look forward to our next spirited joust.
er shouldn’t have written…lack of coffee
No worries, Kansas, I must confess sometimes I say things just to make people mad. I enjoy arguing just for the sake of it sometimes, and I love playing the devil’s advocate. Impeteous (sp?) youth or something, I suppose.
Good to see some civility come out on this blog. We can have spirited discussions and still keep the claws covered. I will admit that there are some on here who bother me more that others. When an entire class of people is disparaged as Kev like to do – yes I have prayed for the Hatian people who are in the path of Dean. This will be very devestating for a very poor island. The homes in many instances are little more than heavy cardboard.
Praise God.
Please vote and support the pullout of american forces from all arabic countries. God willing we will be successful together.
Please vote and support candidate who will stop the American Israeli war against Palestinian people. God willing we will be successful together.
Please vote and support leaders who will remove american forces from bases in arab countries. God willing we will be successful together.
Praise God.
Okay, I’m out for awhile.
I’ve been posting to Blogs for the better part of 10 years and what’s going on here is not normal.
The Eagle posts red-meat to wolves topics about illegal immigrants and then does nothing when the inevitable racist death threats show up.
This is the way people get hurt in real life.
Words lead to acts. You don’t have 9-11 without hate speech. You don’t have a black man getting dragged behind a pick up truck until he’s dead without hate speech. You don’t have Matthew Shephard crucified to a barbed wire fence in Wyoming without hate speech.
The Eagle knows this and they do nothing. Their lame excuses just don’t cut it.
This is nuts.
I’m out, at least for awhile.
Wow, my liberal friends arguing for censorship?
Unbelievable.
Is there nothing in the Constitution safe?
Gun control, taxing churches, censorship.
What’s next?
“Closet Lib,”
“Censorship” is only something that can happen by force, or threat of force. This blog, like the Wichita Eagle, is _private_property_, and the Eagle can set whatever limits on posters they wish. They do _not_ have to provide a forum to those with whom they disagree, or even find disagreeable.
And which posts do YOU find disagreeable? Which would you pull? I personally agree that Horst Wessel’s posts are nasty. But I also find the swearing and name-calling by regular posters on this blog as equally disgusting.
So where do we start, and where do we end with censorship?
BTW, can you find out just exactly how much money the WE BLOG makes? Is the revenue worththe expense?
The WE blog make money?
Hmmm…no advertising, no membership fee…what money?
Yesterday’s rain – a neat image of today down in Oklahoma
http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/2007/erin_okc.gif
Landcane
Troll,
You are trying to conflate merely being rude and disagreeable with express and implied threats of stalking, burglary, and battery. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.
You know my full name, and you know Farmgrrl’s full name. Finding our homes and places of business is a snap with that information. I believe the comments of yours that were deleted were meant to do one thing: Intimidate those you disagree with into silence.
Free speech is one thing. I will support your (and everyone else’s) right to express yourself in any way you wish. But you crossed a line, sir, and you know it. Your last implied threat, that of battery against Cosmos, was as recent as August 4. Am I to believe you’ve “changed your ways” in the past two weeks? Or should I believe that your express and implied threats say something about your character that is wholly unacceptable? Should I believe your apologies, which come attached to lectures and backhanded insults? Or should I believe my own lyin’ eyes, which show me, every day you post, the kind of person you are?
Hmmm…no advertising, no membership fee…what money?
Posted by: Outlandish
My point exactly. How long would your business maintain a product under these conditions?
Closet lib,
I have only reported a single post to the WEBlog editors – the one on August 4, where Cosmos was threatened with battery.
If people want to say hateful things, that’s one thing. If they want to use this blog, or any forum for speech, to threaten violence against others, I find that completely unacceptable.
You know my full name, and you know Farmgrrl’s full name. Tom
Slow down Tom. Please do NOT make the same assumptions you so diligently caution others not to.
I am NOT whomever you mentioned making threats. They can check my IP, Dr, bpn, VIN, whatever you want to call it. I have never threatened any poster on any blog.
Never.
Beyond that, you also assume I know your identities. I do not. I haven’t been on when you posted this information nor do I care to spend my precious time researching archives to do so.
However, you are both smart people and should know better than to ever reveal personal information on a blog, email, respond to phishing, etc… On the internet, despite all your lovely and friendly postings – I don’t trust you with my personal information for a minute.
It is no less than we would teach our children.
And I am NOT whomever you are referring to. Take this post and have it analyized.
Oh, and one last comment on this topic before I go have a life today:
The very person who has repeatedly had posts deleted by the WEBlog editors is volunteering to monitor the behavior of _the_ rest_ of_ us_.
Unbelievable. Funny, in a sick twisted way.
A very interesting video on “What if Chat Rooms were real?”
I believe it applies to Blogs to a certain extent. It shows how people put on cyber masks and behave differently than they would in real life.
Worth watching.
NOTE: FOR MATURE VIEWING ONLY, SEND THE KIDS OUT OF THE ROOM IF YOU DON”T WANT THEM TO SEE IT.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AC1xFjGcZ7c
Closet lib,
That post was addressed to “Troll,” not to you. Unless you’re the person posting alternately as “Republican” and “Kansas”
Sorry Tom, I am not your intended target. Please have me checked out. But also have the one who DID do whatever they did to you checked and compared.
Go outside the WEBLOG. Short of an official membership, revenue driven blog, the best way to fight offensive posts which is recommended universally -is to ignore them.
Closet Lib,
I never said nor implied you were my “intended target.” I think you’ve misunderstood my posts, and thought those addressed to “Troll” were addressed to you. They aren’t.
Yes Tom, I made a suggestion that I wanted to punch Cosmos in the nose for calling me a liar several times a day for several months. I was getting fed up with it.
I do have my breaking point when people constantly taunt me. I’m normal.
Did I do it in fact carry it out? No, I have no idea who he is or where he lives.
Was the post deleted? Yes
Did Tom or cosmos get over it? Nope. They like to keep dredging things up and make it sound worse than it is.
They both enjoy disrupting the blog with their own personal vendettas by calling people trolls.
It has come to point that I classify both of you as whiners and you will never change, but keep on whining about things because you think it wins you some sort of blog points.
Well, it doesn’t. It just makes you look petty and disruptive.
DEAN IS MOVING WEST-NORTHWEST NEAR 18 MPH…30 KM/HR. A MOTIONBETWEEN WEST AND WEST-NORTHWEST IS EXPECTED OVER THE NEXT 24 HOURS.ON THE FORECAST TRACK…THE CENTER OF DEAN WILL BE PASSING VERYNEAR THE SOUTH COAST OF JAMAICA OVER THE NEXT SIX TO TWELVE HOURS.
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 145 MPH…230 KM/HR…WITH HIGHERGUSTS. DEAN IS A CATEGORY FOUR HURRICANE ON THE SAFFIR-SIMPSONSCALE.
This has been a public service annoucement presented by:
Americans Holding Government Accountable to The People
NO EXCUSES NEW ORLEANS! DEAN’S NOT LIKELY TO TURN NORTH NOW, BUT DON’T STOP WATCHING! YOU’VE HAD SEVERAL DAYS NOTICE THIS STORM WAS ENTERING THE GULF. JUST LIKE YOU DID WITH KATRINA!
Interesting article in Sundays Kansas City Star on Immigration. It seems that despite the congress not passing extensive immigration reform, the public is still up in arms over it.
The Star reports that “the number of nativist extremist organizations advocating against illegal immigration has grown from virtually zero just five years ago to 144. The list includes nine groups classified as “hate” groups; e.g. KKK, Aryan supremacists.”
I think it’s sad that as an American who is concerned and politically active over illegal immigration that I am now classified in a group containing “hate groups”.
Something is wrong in the way a large part of our population is being classified.
KCSTAR.com
“disrupting the blog with their own personal vendettas by calling people trolls.”
And you, Republank, regularly refer to me as WS Troll, question my sexuality, disparage my known heritage and call me a liar.
And you claim to be civil and respectful?
And you want to be the WE Blog monitor?
What a hypocrite.
WS Clark,
For doing little more than following me around and saying some of the most hateful and mean things you can, I think you should sit this one out.
I believe the comments of yours that were deleted were meant to do one thing: Intimidate those you disagree with into silence.Posted by: Tom | August 19, 2007 at 01:56 PM
I would concur. This is the troll’s MO, and has been from day one, to intimidate those with whom he disagrees by publishing personal information about them, or threatening to do so.
This pattern is clear as day.
“For doing little more than following me”
I don’t follow you around, Nathan. I could honestly care less if you live or die. Your opinion mean zero to me. You mean zero to me. I could care less about you.
I have several subjects that interst me – the War on Iraq, religion and equal rights.
I post on those threads.
If you have a problem with me posting on those threads, too god damned bad.
You censorship lovers, be careful what you ask for!
Capn, you spend hours on this blog personally attacking others. When you perceive some sort of attack on this blog against your own views, all of sudden you want censorship – giving many excuses as to why censorship should occur.
Very hypocritical stand you are taking there.
Do you really want all disagreeable views censored?
That’s a dangerous position indeed.
For all the criticism I and others have given the WE Blog, it is:
1. One of the top rated blogs in the US.2. Is fast and uncensored.3. Is in a very user friendly format.4. Encourages debate – constructive or otherwise.
I thank the Eagle for providing this forum.
I certainly hope that it doesn’t become such a hassle to administer, and so time consuming to respond to cry-baby complaints, that the Eagle chooses to Edit and slow down every post, or eliminates the blog entirely.
So, if y’all would just quit your bitching, and if you have something constructive to post – post it!
If you want to cry constantly and complain to the Eagle about posts that don’t agree with your views,(instead of constructively rebutting them or ignoring them) then get ready to be censored or shut-down completely.
And have a nice day!
Good points Max and I agree.
Less whining and more posting I say.
is the troll’s MO, and has been from day one, to intimidate those with whom he disagrees by publishing personal information about them, or threatening to do so.This pattern is clear as day.Posted by: Pedant
You know who should be BANNED?Anyone who is stupid enought to reveal their personal information on an internet blog.
They are too dumb to be posting.
get ready to be censored or shut-down completely.Posted by: Max
Sometimes people are surprised when they get what they asked for.
Good post Max.
thank the Eagle for providing this forum.
I certainly hope that it doesn’t become such a hassle to administer, Max
My point exactly Max. If I was an investor in the company providing this forum, I would certainly question why we are providing it for free.
If my cost-benefit analysis came up short, I’d shut it down immediately.
You know who should be BANNED?Anyone who is stupid enought to reveal their personal information on an internet blog.
They are too dumb to be posting.
Posted by: Volunteer Monitor | August 19, 2007 at 02:41 PM
Very true Volunteer Monitor. The information that Tom talks about was provided by guess who in their own posts? By KFG and Tom themselves. So you can say they trolled themselves by supplying their emails, their identities, where they work and etc.
They outed themselves.
They outed themselves.Posted by: Kansas
I cannot believe anyone would be so stupid. Heck, I teach children to NEVER reveal ANY personal information on the internet.
We are cautioned all the time to take EVERY precaution to protect and disclose our personal ID.
Oh well, maybe that’s what makes them liberals.
They outed themselves.Posted by: Kansas | August 19, 2007 at 02:45 PM
There were several times before, when the WEBlog displayed email addresses, that you went out and dug up personal info about various posters.
LOL. If you’re down with offing anybody who posts personal information, yer ass is outta here.
I know you’re comfortable with it, but a guy like you always benefits from hearing it at least once a day. So here’s my contribution to our little community for today.
You’re a dipshit, and you always will be.
NOT disclose.
Hey Peanut, I mean Pedant.
Your ass is showing.
Jeez, I wonder who the “Volunteer Monitor” really is……………
“Yes Tom, I made a suggestion that I wanted to punch Cosmos in the nose for calling me a liar several times a day for several months. I was getting fed up with it.”
Posted by: Kansas, aka troll | August 19, 2007 at 02:09 PM
You posted lies, so you are a LIAR. Don’t you understand “personal responsibility”?
Now cosmopolitan, just calling someone a name is not a real post.
I believe it should be censored.
Oh WEBLOG, here’s my email……..
I’m out, at least for awhile.
Posted by: CapnAmerica
You aren’t going ANYwhere. You will be here with us under one of your many NIC’s. cosmos always shows up when you are at play. Maybe you are the same.
At any rate, you are here somewhere. I just don’t have all day to try to figure it out or worry about it.
Maybe the blog will become a cleaner and friendlier place in your absence if you really do leave.
Grand exit, by the way. Classic attention getter.
Kansas threatened cosmos, too? Wow. Didn’t know that.
And then, as Chas has said, the “sock puppets.”
Sigh. . .
No more peanuts for you, troll(s).
Hi Rage.
I does indeed look like sock puppet city for the last TWO days on the bloggie here.
I’m always glad to see you! At least I KNOW you are real…
Tom posted his email address on here, as well as his office location , what he does – he did it himself.
I remember the discussion about KFG, she posted where she lived, her name and where she worked. She did it to herself. Someone did post a picture of her cafe crew in which she was pictured. Don’t recall who that was, but evidently it was on the Internet for everyone to see.
As for cosmos, anybody that posts anything that opposes his sacred church of climate change is a liar. I’m not the only he has called a liar. But it gets most tiresome when cosmos would post off-topic in threads that had absolutely nothing to do with climate change that I had lied about this or that. He did every day for months several times a day.
Now tell me, who wouldn’t be pissed off for someone doing that to them. I blew my top and told him if we were face to face I’d punch him in the nose. I got tired of his stalking and taunting.
Good to see you too, KFG! Hope to make it back to KS before too long (man, been a year already. . ).
Ya know, I was thinking, maybe we ought to create a ‘program’ of the defined regulars around here–those we KNOW are real, and those who are too consistent not to be real (e.g. cosmos).
Just a thought.
Kansas,
Threatening anyone with physical violence ain’t cool, period. Grow the hell up.
If you think cosmos libeled you, fine–talk to your lawyer.
I find it interesting that you have new people popping up to support you and attack long-time posters anytime you feel slighted. That doesn’t prove it’s you–but you don’t need to encourage them either.
Well, Rage – how would you feel if I followed you on every thread you posted and called you a liar on every post you made and do it several times a day whenever you posted.
That’s what cosmos did.
Punching someone in the nose isn’t exactly deadly violence, it’s what men used to do when men were men, not belligerents hiding behind a computer screen.
So since you agree that cosmos is less than a man unable to stand up for his actions and you wish to side with his stalking methods that’s fine with me.
I’ll just ignore you as well as unworthy of my attention.
Oh and Rage, I will bet you like I have Tom and CapnAmerica, that I am not the posters posting under different names here.
Is $5000.00 dollars a sufficient bet? I put my money where my mouth is and not the B.S. that people of your ilk want to believe and try to spread false rumors about me.
Kansas, I guess maybe you shouldnt have bragged on here SO many times how SMART you are, that you can change IP addresses and spit out nic names at will… a random nic switcher??? something like that… And you want anybody to BET with you that YOU arent the sock puppetmaster??? After all that bragging???
Hmmmmm I dont think so!!!
taunting.Posted by: Kansas
Kansas I don’t get on as much as I would like, but I have noticed you apologizing and rehashing this “incident” repeatedly.
You said you were sorry once. You were big enough to admit your fault. That should be the last of it.
If they want to keep bringing it up, let them.
I think they are taunting you because they know you are: 1) a good person 2) have real feeling3) are truly regretful.
In short, you are feeding them.
CF2K wrote to the Editors, to request a) that they clean up the hate speech on the Immigration thread and b) that they register his complaint about all the trolling that’s gone on here. It is out of hand.
It’s their call how to do deal with it. But this place has become a substance-free zone with increasing frequency, and I, for one, would support the creation of whatever parameters are necessary to restore the WeBlog’s ability to serve as a venue for substantive dispute and conversation. At the moment, it ain’t that sort of place.
That’s true Hotdog1.
I’m going to do something here.
I’m not posting until next Saturday.
One can if they are willing to do so have me traced through the WE Blog by having my ISP track my MAC ID of my router that I have not logged on with any other IP.
Chas, just because I’m knowledgeable about computers doesn’t mean a thing. I was toying with you libs for being so freaking paranoid.
Enjoy the week without me. I will be in the hospital for three of those days I hope so won’t be able to post.
I’m am very angry right now and am disappointed how people accuse me of things I have never done and don’t admit to their own carelessness on this blog.
I would curse but don’t believe in it.
If I’m not back, I won’t be coming back. I’ll leave it at that.
“Well, Rage – how would you feel if I followed you on every thread you posted and called you a liar on every post you made and do it several times a day whenever you posted.
That’s what cosmos did.”
Posted by: Kansas, aka troll | August 19, 2007 at 03:41 PM
“every post you made”??? “several times a day whenever you posted”???
Ironically, Kansas (again) LIES about my posts that pointed out the FACT that he posts LIES. I only posted that occasionally
And Kansas still insists that his LIE about the Sierra Club causing the failure of the New Orleans levees is true.
“you still bring up your bitter defeat on levees that’s four months old now.
BTW JEP, cosmos has posted that same info everyday on almost every topic for the past three months.”
Posted by: Republican, aka Kansas | August 05, 2007 at 02:30 PMhttp://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/open-thread-85.html#comment-78471590
I, for one, would support the creation of whatever parameters are necessary to restore the WeBlog’s ability to serve as a venue Posted by: CF2K |
I would support a monthly membership subscription payment. If this blog is as popular as Max claims above, it could turn into a profitable operation for the company.
Make it enough to discourage riftraft. Say a minimum of $25.00 a month. They could offer reduced rates for six months, a year in advance payment.
Do it now.
Well, it seems that “hate” speech is any speech that liberals hate to hear. Listen up, this ain’t Europe or Canada where decent people get thrown in prison for questioning immigration policy and the capn is NOT the arbiter of all that is fit to be posted on this blog!
There is alot of garbage on tv, but I am not forced to watch. If you don’t like what someone has posted here, just scroll over and quit bitching, simple!
If I’m not back, I won’t be coming back. I’ll leave it at that.
Posted by: Kansas
You sound sincere, and I know that sincerity is no guarantee for the truth. But if you are having to be hospitalized, I wish you fair winds and following seas.
God speed, and if that doesn’t suite you,
may the force be with you.
Well, Rage – how would you feel if I followed you on every thread you posted and called you a liar on every post you made and do it several times a day whenever you posted.
That’s what cosmos did.
Posted by: Kansas | August 19, 2007 at 03:41 PM
Sorry Mr K. I did that and you accused cosmos of it even after I posted several times that I am not cosmos.
You still accuse cosmos of it (and probably still will for that matter).
Admitting finally that you have been wrong may help your credibility.
Otherwise…you know what I’ve called you in the past…and maybe it still fits.
If you are happy and you know it clap your hands!
If you are happy and you know it clap your hands!
If you are happy and you know it then your life will surely show it, if you are happy and you know it clap yours hands!
If you are happy and you know it stomp your feet!
saving the rest for……….
They outed themselves.Posted by: Troll | August 19, 2007 at 02:45 PM
There are quite a few Wichitans, and other Kansans, who post openly, under their real names, on WEBlog.
A partial list would include Ben, Joe Williams, “JWink”, Doug, Vaughn Tolle, Mary Caruso, Steven Davis, Hank Price, Nathan, and many more. Others, like Farmgrrl and GMC70, post under nics, but their real names are known to the “regulars” here.
For the troll to imply any of us “have it coming” is beyond surreal. It’s not “carelessness” as the troll says; it’s not sloppiness or even because “we’re liberals,” as the “Volunteer Monitor” posted above. Unless Hank Price has had a change of heart…
What we have here are Wichitans, and people who live in the surrounding communities, who feel we have a stake and a vested interest in making our community a better place. We’re unafraid to speak for ourselves, and unashamed to stand by every word we type.
At 3:41 upthread, the troll said:
“Punching someone in the nose isn’t exactly deadly violence, it’s what men used to do when men were men, not belligerents hiding behind a computer screen.”
The people you’re attacking, troll, aren’t hiding. We’re out in the community every day, living and working and being part of this city and this state.
If anyone is hiding, it’s you. It’s beyond laughable – in fact, beyond credulity – that you criticize others for YOUR behavior, as if they’re the ones acting it out.
Those of us who post openly here aren’t the bad guys. It’s the anonymous posters who threaten those of us who are open and honest that are the bad players on this blog. Saying or implying that we deserve the threats because we’re open about who we are is just. flat. uncivilized. behavior. period. You, the anonymous person who _repeatedly_ makes these threats – you’re no better than the anonymous jerks who call my office and scream obscenities into the phone. You’re no better than the anonymous thug on the street who says “look, there’s a fag, let’s beat the crap outta him!”
Troll, it’s time in your life for you to own your own words, your own actions, and stop blaming your faults on others. Take the advice you posted earlier: Be a man for a change.
Tom I think your posts are aboveboard, but you are being naive in beliving in this day and age you can participate in a blog which is accessible nationwide, and even worldwide – and still post your personal identification (and repeatedly for others).
Think outside the Kansas box. This blog is being read and posted on by people beyond your local world.
Maybe you can thank yourself for that. People like yourself make it interesting to read the views and opinions of others. But we cannot stop with you. It is also interesting to read the opinions of those who voice a different view or perspective on the events of the day. And it may be a great study for how all these different types of people with very different views – all from the same small state can post together! Micro-something or other.
Anyway, I think you don’t realize how popular this blog has become. It’s beyond the old party telephone line.
Millions can view and post.
There are those out there who are not even POSTING, who are digesting every bit of personal data they can mine.
Sorry I strongly disagree and urge everyone to protect their full identity on this blog.
You are all good people I imagine (except maybe that poster who truly belongs to a hate group) and I don’t think you can any longer consider this blog your own private world.
We are all watching and listening.
Truly no disrespect intended.
Hotdog,
I understand the point you’re making, and partially, but only a very smaaaalll partially, agree.
I don’t think I or anyone else should have to hide who we are, or what our stake is in our community. I think this is true not just of this Wichita blog, but of all community blogs across the country.
That said…
One thing I no longer do is talk about when I’m going to be out of town, or what my work schedule looks like. I stopped doing that after the stalking & burglary threats last month. The only time I’ll be discussing my road trips is after the fact.
And you know what? I hate that, I truly, truly hate that I have to be that concerned for my safety, and for my family’s and coworkers’ safety. And, in case you hadn’t noticed (ha ha), I really resent the fact that the troll is the person who made a threat serious enough that I’ve had to act on it in that way.
Thanks for your views.
Tom
Best wishes for your speedy recovery in the hospital, Kansas.
Our thoughts and prayers go with you.
God Speed Kansas!
I had to tell ya’ll about this weekend…for any who missed the first part that I posted yesterday. Took my daughter to the Anime convention in Wichita. This whole thing was hysterical from the get go. I’ve never seen my daughter fit into a group as well as she did..and since she’s all emo, dark and disturbed, non-conformist..blah blah, I got a real kick out of watching all these other kids- it was like they were all long lost friends.
And it wasn’t just on the outside, as I was talking to the other parents, we all seem to have the exact same kids. That was so nice..it was great for us parents to connect to each other too. My daughter is over the moon because she was asked to come back next year and be a part of the whole thing. This thing was bigger than I expected by far….people driving in from other states…I think he said 1300 people or more who were actually registered (and I didn’t register, got a parent pass).
The people hosting this event were incredible, it felt like a safe place, they kept the kids rounded up well, and were very welcoming when we parents were checking up on them. (Yes there were a lot of parents there keeping watch, so neener to those who think “LIBERAL” parents are so neglectful).
Now the funny part is in the middle of all these teens dressed all dark and weird, Terry Fox happened in…and I don’t know why he was there, but it was PRICELESS…like he walked into the bowels of hell. So I was talking to another mom about this today…and one thing led to another and I ended up telling her my screen name. SHE READS ME- like a real WEBLOG fan- you should have seen it…and was all excited like I was some celebrity! I couldn’t believe it. That means every one of YOU also probably have fans out there too!
So people, even if you never post on here, write a note to your favorite poster and tell them how much you appreciate it. That was so wonderful to me! We posters kindof think that nobody is out there reading except for the ones who post on this blog.
Oh she likes Mary Caruso too, and I told her that I’d like to meet Mary someday.
Oh wow, I just posted that without reading what others had posted…now that I look back and read, how fitting my post was at this particular time.
Yes, we ARE out there, and even though my post showed it to be a good experience, it not always is a good thing. We do need to protect ourselves.
Kansas, I do wish you well.
Tom asked earlier today what I am trying to ‘reform’. For me it is who I choose to be. Sometimes my filter fails and I demonstrate just how truly vicious I can be with words.
So to all my fans out there. . . .
Are you dense or what? :)
well, Proud, sorry man, but if you talk to me in person is the same person you see on here. I like it that way- don’t feel the need to be different.
“Thanks Tom for the link.What I’m getting is that WE can be held accountable for what it publishes in violation of FEDERAL law {i.e. child pornography, certain obscenities, Copyright violations (which happens alot on these blogs), etc.}”
No it cannot so long as it does not actively moderate the blog and it removes copyright violations after being asked to do so by the copyright owners. An internet operator cannot be held liable for copyright under the provisions of the DMCA’s “safe harbour” exemption if they remove the offending material upon written request. How do you think YouTube gets by all the copyrighted stuff on its site?
PMom,
Have you recently posted as “political_mama”? Or is that someone else?
I’m not saying that I am different in person. Just that from my point of view as a Libertarian and a Christian that I am who I choose to be. How I act reflects my choice at that time. I often reflect to learn about myself and make whatever changes I think should happen. Regardless of how fruitless my efforts are at times.
“Kev–
That’s all good and fine for the average irritating post.
But it’s not good and fine for ILLEGAL posts.
You’re saying we should just ignore a drunk driver swerving all over the road or a pervert stalking a kid’s playground.
That’s not responsible.”
Written words posted on an internet blog site are not a “clear and danger” threat nor are they “fighting words” as defined by the courts because of the physical separation of the people involved. Therefore what is posted on these boards is pretty much free speech as it should be.
That was me Tom. Political_mama was my very first screen name I used over at the Salina Journal. When I came to another forum, there wasn’t enough room for the whole thing, so I shortened it to Politicalmom. Anyway..so now when on different computers, I sometimes forget which variation of the name I’m using currently (since my home computer just keeps me usually logged in).
How about more censorship on your TV station Capn?
That was me Tom. Political_mama was my very first screen name I used over at the Salina Journal. When I came to another forum, there wasn’t enough room for the whole thing, so I shortened it to Politicalmom. Anyway..so now when on different computers, I sometimes forget which variation of the name I’m using currently (since my home computer just keeps me usually logged in).
I used to post on SalJournal sometimes. Not too often but they dumped their blogs after too many people bitched- like they do here.
Who did you post as Kev? They put their message board back…apparently it was more popular than they thought.
But they also put in new rules, and pretty much everyone follows the rules. I like their format way better than here.
Tom,
Upon reading your response, you sound saddened that what was a small town blog has changed into something much bigger. I’m sorry about that loss.
But I could provide half a dozen references off hand from reputable sources which all agree not to reveal your personal information on any website or blog. I don’t need to do that knowing this forum.
So to get what you want – a personal blog vice a national or open to all comers blog, I would suggest the WEBLOG go with a fee for service subscription service.
That would provide the company a revenue stream paper media sources so direly need these days, and should be sufficient to pay the costs of monitoring and/or moderating these blogs.
You can’t expect them to provide this service for free. Every time one of us emails the editors, we are in fact creating a task which the owners are paying.
I don’t want to get into how much an hour everyone makes, but for those who say this would not take much time, every minute of an workers day is paid by salary.
This blog is open 24-7.
There is software available which is used by LAN administrators nationwide to look for standard deviations (porn, vulgar language, links, business spam, etc..) but that is a cost to the provider too. This also tracks the individual posters too and provides some event logging by user. Way over my head, but my company pays these guys big bucks and for the software licenses.
Anyway, it can be done.
I’m willing to pay a monthly fee. Whatever is deemed appropriate and competitive. I mentioned 25 dollars a month, but that’s a guess.
But you would overnite get rid of your 10% deviants.
Still, you shouldn’t reveal personal data. This is not your personal blog.
very respectfully,
Well, I’m not willing to pay a monthly fee. I don’t want to see a fee. The other newspapers are able to keep their boards monitored, I see no reason why this one can’t either.
Hotdog,
I understand what you’re saying about anonymity, and respect your opinion. I also respect your right to stay unanimous, should you so choose.
The reality for me is, I don’t worry too much about my personal safety. Because of the political work I do, I’m almost certainly the most publicly “out” gay man in the state of Kansas. If I let shadows in dark alleys frighten me, I’d never be able to accomplish anything.
If there’s danger in my lack of anonymity, so be it. There’s not much I can do about it.
It’s not just physical security we need to worry about. In fact that is the least of my concerns. NRA all the way.
It’s my pocketbook that I’m most concerned with, the results of identity theft.
Of course that should be obvious with my concern with raising taxes on the rich and creating new unfunded social programs our nation can no longer afford.
“stay unanimous”
WTF was I thinking?
“stay ANONYMOUS” is what I meant to type.
Hotdog,
If you’ve read my posts whenever 2nd Amendment and/or concealed carry comes up, you’d know how I feel about that subject. :)
I love the motto on the http://www.pinkpistols.org website: “Armed gays don’t get bashed”
Best wishes for your speedy recovery in the hospital, Kansas.
Our thoughts and prayers go with you.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | August 19, 2007 at 05:19 PM
Capn, get a grip. You’re being set up. You’ve obviously forgotten who you’re dealing with. If “Kansas” disappears, some newbie will show up with the same crappy attitude. Guess who it’ll be?
Kansas is tired of being branded for the troll he is. A new identity is in order.
Oh, Editors? Cleanup on aisle four.
The nazi wannabe made a poopie and he’s SO PROUD.
:)
political_mom,
Agreed. The whole “Money = Free Speech” thing is WAY too Mitch McConnell for CF2K’s tastes. Besides, the Eagle purportedly uses our blogging addiction to flot this thing to advertisers, who pay revenue and stuff.
(Note to the Editors: we LIKE free. Free is good!)
Philosophy 101, people: rights imply RESPONSIBILITIES. Having the “right” to say anthing is predicated on exercising one’s RESPONSIBILITY to take care with one’s posts, and, frankly, to refrain from saying certain things.
Freedom ain’t free, folks. There’s nothing that says you get to say whatever you want, whenever you want, or to cry like little girls when somebody makes you act like a grownup.
Seems like the nazi wannabe’s emoticon could use a dab of facial hair. Like so:
:*)
A fact of life: If you get any group of more than a few people- such as this one- you will get a few assholes like Horst Weasel or whatever he calls himself. In fact some folks probably think I am an asshole, not that I care because none of them sign my paycheck or take care of my dog. The thing is that in a FREE country, you just have to put up with them.
Pmom- I don’t recall the name I used on SalJournal but I was the only person on there that had never lived there as I recall.
Does the Salina Journal still have that little front page interaction between SAL, and INA??? Used to think that was sort of cute, in the small town rag kind of way….
Kev,
Respectfully disagree. “Free country” entails that “free” individuals police themselves. Rights imply responsibilities and all that. If some folks refuse to regulate their own conduct, there’s no obligation for others to continue extending them the right to do so.
It always amuses CF2K to see that it’s always the most authoritarian, proto-fascistic types who, when called out for their misbehavior, sneer that it’s a “free country”–as if they wouldn’t use whatever tools are at their disposal (hateful speech, physical intimidation and violence) to shout down those with whom they disagree.
For the record, this criticism isn’t aimed at you, Kev. But I see this “free country” defense thrown around and misused enough that some clarification is in order.
Oh boy… Urgent!!
Meltdown… Meltdown…
Chas.,
Indeed. To quote a quote from a movie from CF2K’s youth, in his dreams, he IS the Wizard Master!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093629/quotes
Or a Storm Trooper. Same difference.
Horst Wessel,
How’s it feel to have been defeated and subjugated by a bunch of Communists and mongrel Americans? Bet it keeps you awake nights.
“The reality for me is, I don’t worry too much about my personal safety. Because of the political work I do, I’m almost certainly the most publicly “out” gay man in the state of Kansas. If I let shadows in dark alleys frighten me, I’d never be able to accomplish anything.”
Ditto dude, ditto. Although I’m not a gay man. :)
Remember the poster who was so proud of “stuffing the homos back in the closet” the other day?
Assholes like that get away with things in the dark when people hide and cower. I’m not ashamed of who I am. I’ve worked damn hard to have the freedom to post like this.
We have a saying in our community. A closet is waaaaaaay too small a space for an adult human being. It isnt always easy to be visible, and it costs us in every way possible.
But to live otherwise is a complete break in integrity and has no power. The price of NOT being fearless in who we are is also too high for an adult human being.
Not having secrets is a GREAT way to live. The price is small considering the alternative.
Personal courage = out and proud in Kansas.
CF2K’s hat (at the moment, a nice brown Resistol) is off to you and Tom, ksfarmgrrl.
Back at ya CF!!!!
I just love a man in a Resistol….
You must have a hat collection, not just “a hat”. I’m into baseball caps right now. Part of getting in touch with my inner farmer :)
Personally? Just an opinion. I think the pundits are correct that in the 08 elections, authenticity will be the currency of the realm. We LONG for authenticity. But it is one expensive sumbitch. Being truely authentic means exposing yourself, warts and all, and admiting mistakes.
Authenticity and integrity go hand in hand. And my own definition of personal integrity is having laserlike alignment between who I am on the outside and who I am on the inside. No secrets.
Am I proud of everything I’ve said or done in my life? Hell no, I’m not STUPID! But I am ALL that I am, the “good” and the “bad”. And I dont think I can own the good without also owning the bad. And vice versa.
Of course, good and bad and pretty black and white. Hell, maybe I’m not profound, maybe I’m just bipolar…
heheheheheheh!
Ah yes, the baseball cap. Nothing says “you look like an American!” like a baseball cap.
So, ksfarmgrrl, how do you like the reportage on Uncle Karl’s use of the U.S. Government departmental meetings as electioneering tools for the GOP?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/18/AR2007081801182.html
Looks like Rove’s neck could well be under the Hatch Act axe pretty dang soon.
“Just” bipolar. Given the collective psychosis that reigns on the Right end of the spectrum, I’ll take biploar–even if the world has gone all multipolar.
As for ‘authenticity,’ well, don’t hold your breath. Between Rudy “I practically took a swing at Osama Bin Laden myself” and Fred “I drive a red pickup truck to campaign events and a yellow Hummer everywhere else” Thompson, it’s going to be a LONG, LONG couple years.
Moreover, the media hates, Hates, HATES authenticity. It offends their oily, cliquish, sophomoric sensibility. Reminds them of how debated they are.
Oops–should be “debased.”
Closets are for clothes.
KsFarmgrrl,A favorite passage from a John Hiatt song, Come Home To You, says, “There’s no man so wicked he cannot come home; Nor so good he passes each test.”
Kinda puts a perspective on your statement, “Being truly authentic means exposing yourself, warts and all, and admitting mistakes.” If you want the spotlight of politics, ya better be able to step in and outta the gutter. Life ain’t Ozzie and Harriet.
Hah Tom!!!! That’s why my closet is so empty…
CF, I think the rovester is our own Rasputin.
And as for the media HATING authenticity, uh, no shit. I think that is the thing Dennis and Ron Paul share and why their respective fans love them and their respective enemies think they are lunatics.
People LOVE authenticity. The media and the ruling class do not. No wonder both guys, despite their followings, are branded as “cute but unelectable”. Love ‘em or hate ‘em, they are both authentic as hell. And they pay the price.
JM,
It’s a deep, deep gutter. Bring hip-waders.
Hey Walker! Long time no see!
“There’s no man so wicked he cannot come home; Nor so good he passes each test.”
I love that. I think Clinton proved the American people will forgive a lot if they think you are truely repentant and you authentic in owning your mistakes.
I’m not saying that to start a flame war. The Rude Pundit did a series on “shame” a while back. His conclusion, losely paraphrased with apologies, was that Clinton had such high approval ratings because he was publicly shamed and he accepted that and then went on.
He thinks bush’s low approval ratings is because he refuses to admit his obvious mistakes and he has no shame and admits no shame.
Damn, that post, while sincere, is gonna draw wingnut ire quickly. Good thing it’s bedtime for this bonzo. A farmgrrl’s work is never done…
The short newscast talks about this woman and her 8 year old USA child (real tear jerker). She was kicked out once, but came back. One time shame on you, two times shame on me. Then to gain employment illegally, she made false use of a social security number.
The US cannot condone this action. We either enforce the law, or we change it. For now, no tears from me – she should be sent packing.
The 32-year-old Arellano arrived in Los Angeles on Saturday, leaving her sanctuary for the first time in a year to campaign for immigration reform.
Arellano has become a symbol of the struggles of illegal immigrant parents and a source of controversy. She had said Saturday she was not afraid of being taken into custody by immigration agents.
“From the time I took sanctuary the possibility has existed that they arrest me in the place and time they want,” she said in Spanish. “I only have two choices. I either go to my country, Mexico, or stay and keep fighting. I decided to stay and fight.”
Arellano came to Washington state illegally in 1997. She was deported to Mexico shortly after, but returned and moved to Illinois in 2000, taking a job cleaning planes at O’Hare International Airport.
She was arrested in 2002 at O’Hare and later convicted of working under a false Social Security number. She was to surrender to authorities last August.
She sought refuge at the storefront church on Chicago’s West Side Aug. 15, 2006. She had not left the church property until deciding to be driven to Los Angeles, Coleman said.
Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Farmgrrl,
I think it’s difficult for some people in politics to keep whatever authenticity they had when they first started. You know – in the beginning it’s all fire and idealism. After a few years or terms in office, it becomes more about working the minutiae of the system. That’s not an environment for people who are more comfortable “telling it like it is.”
“You know – in the beginning it’s all fire and idealism.”
Heh! Who you tellin’ WHAT? That’s the story of my life. It is a struggle to maintain authenticity and integrity. And one of the prices is that I’ll never be able run for office.
Being complete with your own mistakes STILL doesnt mean you want to see your own laundry on the front page of the paper day after day after day after day.
They also serve who stand and wait…. :)
hee hee hee hee! I also dont mind being outside the tent and whizzing in. I like that SO much better than standing inside the tent and whizzing out. Not that I stand of course…
Idealism, pragmatism, oppotunism: that’s the political life cycle.
It’s like Thea Vidal said about Bill Hicks. “You know, people caint handle but so much truth. They want their truth with a spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down easy.”
::checks pockets::
All out of sugar cubes.
CF,
You just named Rationale Number 1 for term limits.
Farmgrrl,
I’m gonna bet you can whizz standing up. Signing your name in the snow, now, that would be a challenge. :>
And I’m also gonna bet you _never_ carried sugar cubes in those pockets. A razor blade, some salt, and a little bit of lemon juice, yeah. Sugar? Not a chance.
We need a law that defines a natural born US citizen as anyone that was born to a mother who was here in the USA LEGALLY.
That would stop this anchor baby nonsense.
And that Arelleno woman in the above post should be deported along with her children.
Tom,
True enough. But it isn’t enough for me to back term limits. Don’t like the idea of denying folks the ability to serve, and to set the learning clock back on a continuing basis.
If elected officials are term-limited, bureaucrats increase in power since they become the default repository of collective memory. And given the agency and departmental purges we’ve seen under Bush, enforcing term limits across the board would be a perfect storm for draining expertise from government and leaving it vulnerable to all sorts of other partisan mischief.
CF2K’s answer: oversight, oversight, oversight; enforcement, enforcement, enforcement; separation of powers, separations of powers, separation of powers.
Max,
We need more than legislation. We need a Constitutional amendment. The 14th Amendment grants citizenship to “all persons born” in the United States. This was intentional – it was meant to grant citizenship to all people for whom their ancestry, and right to be here, may have been in doubt because of slavery and other issues.
CF,
It’s not just the bureaucracy that gains power in a term-limited world. It’s also the PACs and the lobbyists.
Power is going to be institutionalized somewhere. All we can do is try to control the _where,_ and yes, like you said, have oversight, enforcement, and separation of powers.
Tom,
Right. Double-effect inevitably shadows fix-all solutions like term limits. Big difference is that I don’t get to vote for PACs or lobbyists.
Frankly, what I detest most is the ironclad power of incumbency. Holding office now amounts to a nearly insurmountable competitive disadvantage for incumbents. I’d like to see this corrected with something other than term limits.
CF — I think possibly true competition between candidates, instead of muckraking smear tactics, might make a difference in the incumbency issue…
Why not a “truth in political ads” law??
CF,
Counter-intuitively, _more_ money in campaigns can help unseat incumbents regardless of party. The more money a challenger has, the more access that challenger has to communications. Direct mail, phone calls, tv and radio ads, newspaper ads – these all cost moneymoneymoney.
Trying to limit money in campaigns _adds_ to incumbent entrenchment.
Of course, money can be corrupting. Damned if we do, damned if we don’t.
Which goes back to your point earlier: Oversight, oversight, oversight. Enforcement. Separation of powers. More oversight. And so on.
Listen, all you good folks of this village… Dont you dare vote for my opponent… Did you know that at one time, he was a Thespian??? And that several times, he has been seen matriculating in public places!!
How much audacity can one person have, and be expected to win public office??
Chas,
“Truth in politics” legislation has been tried. It’s not workable. One can endlessly interpret, reinterpret, spin, etc. Who says they’re lying? Who says they’re telling the truth?
You mean there is no way to make them PROVE their statements??? either negative, or positive???
Remember the “Dean Scream” four years back??? Seems to me if there had been some kind of “truth in campaign ads” they would have been forced to put out the RIGHT audio production of that event, rather than the one where the sound was faulty…
Chas,
You’re an ordained, working minister. Tell me: How many different ways are there to interpret the Bible?
It’s not possible to monitor every political statement for truthfulness OR truthiness. And any strict enforcement would encroach on First Amendment rights.
No, Chas, the best cure for speech we don’t like is more speech. Not a law restricting speech.
Term limits I like. Question is what term?
I like:
4 terms in the House (8 years)2 terms in the Senate (12 years)
That’s enough time to learn the ropes, while still getting rid of those who gain so much money and power that they will never lose a re-election.
Then make it so they would not qualify for a pension unless they served 20 years in Congress.
If they want to continue Government service, there’s plenty of Federal appointments or they can go back and serve in their home state as State Representative or State Senator, Governor, mayor, etc….
I can adjust bass/treble controls on my radio, and Hilary isnt nearly as “shrill sounding” as she is when Rush Hannity OReilly play her sound bites…
Ok, Tom, then we need a Constitutional Amendment to change the definition of Natural Born Citizen.
No chance for that.
OK Tom, I see your point… it just seems like we get so MUCH spin, and sometimes, those being spun seem like they either dont care, or they think it will just go away and hide somewhere, like Kerry did in 2004 with the Swift Boat Vets travesty…
Truth in Political Ads isn’t gonna happen either.
So, when an illegal comes here, and gives birth to a child, the child is a natural born citizen…
Of course, the parents arent… But, how many are there would want to deport the illegal parents, and then have to do something with the newly created “orphan” children left behind??
Chas,
“Liberal” commentators do the same thing. Have you _ever_ seen Keith Olbermann show Bill-O in a positive light? Olbermann never refers to Rush as anything other than “comedian Rush Limbaugggghhhhhh…” And look how Jon Stewart pillories the far right.
Both sides do it. MORE SPEECH! MORE SPEECH! That’s the answer.
I know Tom… and — maybe better SPEECH writers???
I’m not willing to change the definition of what constitutes an American citizen. If you’re born here, you are a citizen. But I am all for enforcing the laws that say the illegals should be legitimately here instead of being able to run across the border to give birth in the first place.
All they’re doing here is slowing changing our country into more like Mexico-bringing the low wages with them…if they want Mexico, go back there. If they want a better country, go back and change it to make it better.
Chas,
There’s nothing stopping the parents from taking their child back to their home countries with them.
PMom… I agree… Those quadruplets born the other nite up north, from Canada, are now LEGAL U.S. Citizens… I think at some point, they will need to make a decision as to whether they want to be Canadian, or USA citizens…
A cousin of mine gave birth to one of her children in Germany… but not in a US Base hospital… in a German community hospital…
So, when her son reached 18 yrs old, he had to choose if he wanted to be a German or an American Citizen…
Max,
Don’t be so sure an amendment won’t eventually happen. The anger against illegal immigrants is growing.
I admit, though, that the bar is very, very high. 2/3rds of the Senate and the House. Ratification by 3/4rs of the state Legislatures.
Amending the Constitution is tough stuff.
True Tom… but if they were deported, there isnt any way the US could force them to take the children is there??
Chas,
Nope. They’re free to abandon their kids, or leave them with friends or relatives legally here.
Well, thats what I thought… but I wasnt sure… Now, if they took them BACK with them, couldnt those children born here eventually come back as FULL citizens??? without question??
Yep
Hey… I got one for you… Just a funny little thing… Might even be a little like politics>>>
THE QUIZ
3 MEN GO INTO A MOTEL. THE MAN BEHIND THE DESK SAID THE ROOM IS $30, SO EACH MAN PAID $10 AND WENT TO THE ROOM.
A WHILE LATER THE MAN BEHIND THE DESK REALIZED THE ROOM WAS ONLY $25, SO HE SENT THE BELLBOY TO THE 3 GUYS’ ROOM WITH $5.
ON THE WAY, THE BELLBOY COULDN’T FIGURE OUT HOW TO SPLIT $5 EVENLY BETWEEN 3 MEN, SO HE GAVE EACH MAN A $1 AND KEPT THE OTHER $2 FOR HIMSELF.
THIS MEANT THAT THE 3 MEN EACH PAID $9 FOR THE ROOM, WHICH IS A TOTAL OF $27, ADD THE $2 THAT THE BELLBOY KEPT = $29.
WHERE IS THE OTHER DOLLAR?
What I want to know is what were three guys and a bellboy doing together in a $25 room?
Hmmmm?
Chas,Is your opponent also a closet Homo Sapiens?
I dont know the particulars… I didnt make it up LOLOL But point well taken!!
Thats right Jed… a sure fired closet Homo Sapiens… Not fit for public office — LOL
Hey, you all might want to check this out… most interesting…
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Technology/CIA-and-Vatican-edit-Wikipedia-entries/2007/08/18/1186857828993.html
Hey, folks, when Kansas returns, you think we can start fresh (or try, anyway)? It really serves no purpose to rehash the same old crap, ya know?
Just a thought.
Ditto, Rage.
Let’s give the guy a chance to act decently.
See what happens . . .
Which version of Kansas?
Republican? Republikhan? Blank? TT? Volunteer Monitor? Etc?
He doesn’t deserve it, but it doesn’t hurt to try.
“Which version of Kansas?
Republican? Republikhan? Blank? TT? Volunteer Monitor? Etc?”
Treat the ‘normal’ nic like a human being. Trolls that show up–whether they are his doing or not–will behave like trolls, and should be ignored.