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Open thread 8/10
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Aug. 10, 2007 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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271 Comments
US public sees news media as biased, inaccurate, uncaring: poll
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070809222839.jzdcwmy8&show_article=1
“More than half of Americans say US news organizations are politically biased, inaccurate, and don’t care about the people they report on, a poll published Thursday showed. ”
Surely this isn’t true in Kansas?
Mornin, Lark… good way to open a can of worms for a Friday… Later!!
HA! With so many folks watching FOX News and not being critical thinkers…. I am not surprised at this poll result.
A Crisis In America
The Ruling class in Israel is the only real enemy, which the United States has at present, and the rest of the world is waiting for us to become aware of that fact.
America’s constitutional government is under siege by that enemy and our very existence is threaten by the fact of not realizing how deeply we’ve been invaded.
All the way from ex-president Jimmy Carter to America’s finest academics and Army Generals, the warning abound.
Israel having hijacked US foreign policy means right now our military is being used by Israeli interests against the better interests of United States. Our best Generals are being silenced by a corrupted White House and a bribed congress, which fails to serve the overwhelming majority of the American People in favor of the rogue terrorist State of Israel.
With nearly 4000 of our soldiers dead in what amounts to Israel’s war in Iraq, and another nearly 30,000 soldiers maimed and disfigured, which for all practical purposes will require a lifetime of expensive care, the cost of allowing The White House in conjunction with Israel presenting dishonest reasons to embark on this ill-advised world conquest, may well be bankrupting the United States of America.
But, with a controlled dysfunctional press and news media, those vital warnings are not receiving the attention the American People deserve from their government.
Ed Friedemann Texas
More from the Wall Street Journal
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2007/08/07/speechless-in-chicago
A Crisis In America
The Ruling class in Israel is the only real enemy, which the United States has at present, and the rest of the world is waiting for us to become aware of that fact.
America’s constitutional government is under siege by that enemy and our very existence is threaten by the fact of not realizing how deeply we’ve been invaded.
All the way from ex-president Jimmy Carter to America’s finest academics and Army Generals, the warning abound.
Israel having hijacked US foreign policy means right now our military is being used by Israeli interests against the better interests of United States. Our best Generals are being silenced by a corrupted White House and a bribed congress, which fails to serve the overwhelming majority of the American People in favor of the rogue terrorist State of Israel.
With nearly 4000 of our soldiers dead in what amounts to Israel’s war in Iraq, and another nearly 30,000 soldiers maimed and disfigured, which for all practical purposes will require a lifetime of expensive care, the cost of allowing The White House in conjunction with Israel presenting dishonest reasons to embark on this ill-advised world conquest, may well be bankrupting the United States of America.
But, with a controlled dysfunctional press and news media, those vital warnings are not receiving the attention the American People deserve from their government.
Ed Friedemann Texas
More from the Wall Street Journal
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2007/08/07/speechless-in-chicago
Beats Me.
“HA! With so many folks watching FOX News and not being critical thinkers…. I am not surprised at this poll result.Posted by: David B”
Did you read the survey results or are you going with your “gut feeling”?
Tracy
With Lieberman as VP, how long before Gore “went missing?”
Tracy
“That the election was stolen and Gore was the rightful and legal winner.
The other 12% think like you.”
Since when have I supported Bush?
I’ve run out of ways to trash him.
Now we are beginning to see how Israeli threats to world oil markets are effecting the American economy.
Mortgage Losses Echo in Europe and on Wall Street
Turmoil in the home loan market ricocheted from the United States to Europe and back again yesterday as stocks on Wall Street suffered their biggest one-day decline since February, reflecting growing concerns about tightening credit worldwide.
Big losses on packages of American home loan securities sold to investors turned up unexpectedly in French and Dutch banks yesterday, adding to worries at hedge funds and financial institutions around the globe. With trillions of dollars of securities outstanding, those announcements raised expectations that more problems may soon emerge in other unlikely places as well.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/10/business/10markets.html?_r=1&th=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&emc=th&adxnnlx=1186744234-TNUmsmN6Eug8HO+nGkCCOA
When the America oil based economy is threatened by Israeli greed and world domination, along with major interruptions and unavailability of crude oil, jobs are threatened and the ability to make mortgage payments is what we’re seeing now.
The Zionists are so self-absorbed that they fail to understand how all of the trouble which they cause, will come home to roost.
3 dollar gasoline is like a cancer to our economy. It slowly eats away at our wealth-producing free-enterprise system.
And when that is gone, there is nothing left to tax.
Have you noticed that restaurants are only half-full or less?
Discount the phony economic figures coming out of the White House.
Why do Americans trust the media to tell them they don’t trust the media?
It looks like a plan is underway for the U.S. to hand off authority to the U.N. to manage Iraq. A concensus is emerging that Turkey, Syria and Iran must be major participants in Iraq’s pacification, but the U.S.-led team of Condi Rice, Robert Gates, and Ryan Crocker haven’t been fruitful.
America’s ambassador to the UN is Zalmay Khalilzad, a native of Afghanistan, and a Sunni Muslim.
It looks like the Bush family’s New World Order Internationalist propensities are coming home to roost.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/09/AR2007080902290.html?hpid=artslot
Yep, hand off Iraq to the country Bush just threatened, and Cheney wants to bomb: Iran.
Makes sense to . . . this administration.
AS I WAS SAYING EARLIER >>>>
“Mornin, Lark… good way to open a can of worms for a Friday… Later!!
Posted by: Chas. | August 10, 2007 at 01:40 AM”
=============================
Hmmmmmm -
Just wondering if this is going to be the all anti-semetic, all tin-foil hat thread today.
So far, seems so . . . .
Come on! I can’t live without knowing which celebrity is in rehab. It’s my whole life! Oh! I loovvvvveeeee celebrity court trials.
What is going to happen with Britney Spears and K-Feds child custody suit. Oh man! I’m just on the edge of my seat glues to the news channels so I can read the crawlers for the latest news.
LOL!
Main Stream Media really isn’t much more than Entertainment Tonight! Tabloid News!
In todays email I got the following article, no link was given.
My comment: Interesting that it makes no distinction between social welfare and corporate welfare.
This should throw some kerosene on the political fires that burn in here:
How Long Do We Have?
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new
constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:
“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot
exist as a permanent form of government.”
“A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that
voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.”
“From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”
“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the
beginning of history, has been about 200 years.”
“During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through
the following sequence:
1. from bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to complacency;
6. from complacency to apathy;
7. from apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage”
Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St.
Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:
Number of States won by:
Gore: 19
Bush: 29
Square miles of land won by:
Gore: 580,000
Bush: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by:
Gore: 127 million
Bush: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Gore: 13.2
Bush: 2.1
Professor Olson adds: “In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Gore’s territory mostly encompassed those citizens living
in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government
welfare…”
Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the
“complacency and apathy” phase of Professor Tyler’s definition of
democracy, with some forty percent of the nation’s population already
having reached the “governmental dependency” phase.
If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million
criminal invaders called illegals and they vote, then we can say
goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070810/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_gay_rights
Sharp questions for Dems on gay issues
“Logo, available in about 27 million homes, wanted to hold a second forum for Republican candidates but GOP front-runners showed no interest, channel officials said.”
IMHO we are here — 7. from apathy to dependence;
Ron Paul is against depending on government and entitlements. Want to get back on track and back towards 3. from courage to liberty; 4. from liberty to abundance; ????
RON PAUL 2008
Ken!
Snopes says NO!
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp
How about no more Iraq? It wasn’t there before the Brits drew the lines, why not let it disappear. Let the Saudis have the Suni region, the Iranians have the Shiite(sp?) region and the Turks have the Kurd region.
Poof, no more problems.
Thanks Joe –
Seems there are a lot of holes in the story —-
Will do a better job of checking next time —
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070810/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_gay_rightsSharp questions for Dems on gay issuesPosted by: TDT | August 10, 2007 at 09:02 AM
Y’all ever notice how candidates from BOTH sides dodge and weave around tough questions? Y’all ever heard Ron Paul answer a direct question? Hard question, hard answer. Isn’t it time we heard the truth from candidates and not the best spin decided by the latest poll?
DENNIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“A majority of Americans oppose nationwide recognition of same-sex marriage and only two of the Democrats support it — former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel and Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, both longshots for the nomination.”
Looks like your guy Farmie.
Outside of the shrubster, richardson is the DUMBEST sumbitch EVER to run for president.
Edwards is toast as well. He needs to take his act back to the southern good ol boys who appreciate it.
Dennis was the only candidate last night to give good, straightforward answers with a minimum of tap dancing. Mike Gravel did too, but I think overall, Dennis is the man.
Too bad no one is listening to him.
And Sol? Dennis is like a SANE Ron Paul without the “family values” smear.
Source for your quote Sol?
Polls on the matter differ, especially by age. It’s only a matter of time. We’re gaining every year.
Too bad some of the mossbacks here wont be around to see it.
And Sol, ALL of the republican candidates declined to participate in a forum on logo.
I’m assuming that means ron paul too. Wanna answer WHY? He just couldnt stand the heat or for his “family values” stances?
This guy looks like a liberal Ron Paul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mtr9OoNcJM
Source for te quote –
From the link above –
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070810/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_gay_rights
Mad Max, take your Zantax, and enjoy the ride today. You can always be grateful that you don’t have your SS in the Market!
In a real Democracy, we would quit focusing so much on what the Minority wants and start focusing on what the Majority wants. And statistics show, as was mentioned earlier, that is not gay marriages.
Farmie,
I’ll look into the logo thing.
This isnt the only issue that causes me to support Dennis. I like his stance on all the other issues as well. And like ron, he isnt afraid to tell the truth as he sees it, and let the political chips fall where they may.
Would it have been easier for Dennis to dance around the gay marriage issue, triangulate, and then poop on us ever so politely?
You bet.
But he didnt do that. HE stood firm for his beliefs, and talked about action, not just whiney affirmation.
I thought by ME’s body language and deferance last night, she must be an Obama supporter.
WTF is the matter with HER? He’s the same ol’ bigotry wrapped in new outsides.
Hillary takes the same stance, but I sure as hell trust her more on the competency to govern than I do for Obama.
I had high hopes for him. He has blown it. Not ready for prime time.
Solly, that is just the opinion of the writer. He gives NO sources for that. And as I said, the numbers change by age and geography.
And, without doing research here, IIRC, we’re talking about somewhere around a 45-50 split? And the trend for the numbers are heading our way.
Like I said, this is only a matter of time. And when it happens? Those who opposed it will look like the racial bigots who opposed interracial marriage and supported separate but equal as “good enough”.
Cant wait.
sub prime mess
I happened to catch on the 30 minute sound byte (NBC)they call news last night, that these poor poor peoplehave lost their homes. They of course showed a female minority “VICTIM”. Her former house was TRASHED. It showedher standing in the filth saying, “I cannot afford to even have the place cleaned before they repro’d it”.
Wife and college daughter were watching and exclaimed, “CLEAN IT YOURSELF!!!”
They had just worked two weekends ago cleaning the daughters apartment before she moved OUT. On their hands and knees.
Like someone twisted their arms and FORCED these people to sign CONTRACTS???????? Like they are NOT responsiblefor R-E-A-D-I-N-G what the f–k they signed???
Here is what really boils my blood: Some of the people defaulting are wealthy. Second homes/beach homes/vacation homes.
And you and I are going to bail them out!!!!!!!!
Farmie,
Just giving you what the article said. The point of the post was that only 2 dems support it.
Dennis and Ron can speak their minds because they don’t have a sno-ball’s chance in hell.
Sad, isn’t it?
…and so much for Obama’s “religious stance”.
“Barack Obama belongs to the United Church of Christ, which supports gay marriage, but Obama has yet to go that far.
“If we have a situation in which civil unions are fully enforced, are widely recognized, people have civil rights under the law, then my sense is that’s enormous progress,” the Illinois senator said.”
HIS OWN CHURCH supports us and he doesnt. WTF?
Oh and bible beater? The majority of americans want abortion to be legal. AND they want us out of iraq.
So… I’ll bite if you bite. But I think you just want YOUR way, not really the way of the majority.
‘Cause if you did, and you were NOT a hypocrit, then you would support a woman’s right to chose.
Like I said. Hypocrit.
“In a real Democracy, we would quit focusing so much on what the Minority wants and start focusing on what the Majority wants. And statistics show, as was mentioned earlier, that is not gay marriages.
Posted by: BibleBeater | August 10, 2007 at 09:32 AM”
That is why America was not created to be a pure democracy.The Bill of Rights was specifically created to protect the rights of the minority from the overruling vote of the majority.
SolDev – if no one supports it why dont people just quit trying to push it thru? Cant they just give gays a civil union and forget the marriage word? shouldn’t the majority rule? isn’t this america anymore?
According to Obama, gay people should be content because he will let us sit in the MIDDLE of the bus, not in the back.
But even HE wont let us sit in the front of the bus with the other Americans.
BIG effin’ eye roll.
farmgurl, abortion is legal. and wanting us out of iraq is good but no one wants us to come out to soon. but the gays want something that no one else wants them to do get married. should i be able to marry a child, to? if the child wants to?
i dont think obama said gays cant sit in the front of the bus. but why change a tradition like marriage that weve had for thousands of years? gays live together anyway so just let them have the same money breaks and stuff. they dont have to call it marriage just a union.
The majority rules that abortion should be legal.
Is that ok with you too?
I recognize bible beaters writing and typing.
Buh-bye.
“should i be able to marry a child, to? if the child wants to?”
Sigh. We’ve been over this a million times, but you are too stupid to see the difference.
Gay marriage is between CONSENTING ADULTS.
CHILD SEX AND MARRIAGE like the kind supported by bon bon hue, is NOT BETWEEN CONSENTING ADULTS.
IF you are too effin’ dumb to see the difference, well then, now you know why I’m walking on by.
Farmie,
Couldn’t find a link as to why RP declined. Found a couple other links though.
Ron Paul is for State’s Rights and for keeping the Federal Gov’t out of citizens affairs. As I see it, he would support the state’s right to choose and remove any federal guidelines. This has been his voting record thus far.
The Federal Marriage Amendment Is a Very Bad Ideahttp://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul207.html
I’m Gay, and Ron Paul has earned my votehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2yIxMtQLZU
i support abortion as legal. the bible makes a distinction between abortion and murder, there not the same thing. i dont understand the child marriage thing since i said if the kid wanted to but whatever. im just saying that why not give gays the same money and legal breaks and just not call it marriage? do they even have to have the word? there is a tradition here. whoever you think i am im not.
“shouldn’t the majority rule? isn’t this america anymore?
Posted by: BibleBeater | August 10, 2007 at 09:43 AM”
Ummm, yeah.
Beater, if the majority voted to require the wearing of burkas and turbans, would that be ok with you?
” i dont understand the child marriage thing since i said if the kid wanted to but whatever.
Posted by: BibleBeater | August 10, 2007 at 09:56 AM ”
A person must be 16 to legally enter into a binding contract. Marriage is considered to be a binding contract by the law. Therefore, no marriage under the age of majority, 16.
gays live together anyway so just let them have the same money breaks and stuff. they dont have to call it marriage just a union.
Posted by: BibleBeater
Now wait a minute here. They can live together and do whatever they like legally. But giving them “money breaks and stuff” comes out of MY pocket.
That’s where your supposed “rights” end.
If my employer has to open up health care insurance for your new dependents – that will drive up the cost of services provided to all members. Particularly so if the dependents are high risk.
Any other work related “breaks” directly affects MY pocketbook and future earnings.
And GOVERNMENT “money and stuff”,such as welfare, food stamps, subsidized housing – ALSO comes oub of MY pocket book.
Sorry. I support your right to live with whomever you choose legally. But I do not support your RIGHTS to
“money and stuff”
brian, some states let kids marrying if there parents sign for them. but, yeh its okay if the majority vote to wear burkas i would just move out. i might follow the bible but i do it by myself i dont convince others and i think the majority rules in a democrat nation. people want traditions like birthdays and graduations stuff like that. marriage to. if every kid that flunked got to graduate the tradition would be over same with gays marrying. what if you couldnt sing happy birthday anymore at the party? what if the mexicans made you sing it in mexican language? just traditions. marriage is the same thing. lets keep the tradition and just make gays equal but not married. just a union.
but dave im just talking about the same rights that others have to taxes and stuff. i dont see how that comes out of your pocket. if it does then married people come out of your pocket to. why just pay for marriage and not gays unions? theres not very many of them anyway and they dont have kids so there isnt going to be money out of your pocket. you will have to pay for single mothers who are abandonded tho.
So, the ones here that oppose gay marriage, why allow a white man to marry a black woman? Why allow a black man to marry an Hispanic woman? Where do your prejudices begin and end?
i dont see how that comes out of your pocket. BibleBeater
Then you just plain cannot understand. If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be.
Ken–
That was the dumbest post I’ve seen on the WEBlog in quite some time.
Bush won “more square miles”? Gee, since when did rocks and dirt get the vote?
As for the law professor, he needs to go back to school. It is the URBAN areas that generate a positive tax flow for the US gov’t. It is the RURAL areas that use more taxes than they generate.
In other words, Kansas, being rural, sucks down more money from the gov’t than we generate. We’re part of the “welfare state” that CONs love to inveigh against.
“Sorry. I support your right to live with whomever you choose legally. But I do not support your RIGHTS to
“money and stuff”
Posted by: Famous Dave | August 10, 2007 at 10:00 AM”
Really, that is just too bad. There is no legally justifiable reason that will prevent the eventual legality of gay marriage.
So, the ones here that oppose gay marriage, why allow a white man to marry a black woman? Why allow a black man to marry an Hispanic woman? Where do your prejudices begin and end?
And here’s the proof–
“There’s a general perception out there that the blue states are big net recipients of federal subsidies,” says Harvard business professor Herman “Dutch” Leonard. And there’s a corollary perception that, in contrast to these welfare-queen states, the inland and Southern states are a heartland of self-reliance and private initiative, less dependent on federal spending. As Leonard says, “That historically hasn’t been the case.” And it’s becoming less and less so.
In 2003, the top subsidy-sucking state, in percentage terms, was red-lite New Mexico, which received $1.99 in federal money for every dollar it sent to Washington, D.C. All the next eight net recipients of federal spending were redder yet: Kentucky, Virginia, Montana, Alabama, North Dakota, West Virginia, Mississippi and Alaska, which received $1.60 to $1.89 back for each tax dollar.
The list of net losers in the state-federal exchange, by contrast, reads like a Who’s Who of Blue. Two of the top 14 were traditionally red Western states that are starting to turn purple, Colorado and Nevada. The other 12 are all blue: California, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New York, Washington, Wisconsin and the biggest chump of all, New Jersey, where the federal government spends just $.57 for every dollar it collects. Clearly Tony Soprano did not negotiate this deal.
Only five blue states were net recipients of federal subsidies. Only two red states were net payers of federal taxes. Washington, despite its large military presence and big defense contractor The Boeing Co., received just 90 cents on its federal tax dollar. Oregon and swinging Florida are perfect washes: They received one federal dollar for every dollar they paid in taxes.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/211080_sciglianomoney.html
States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:1. D.C. ($6.17)2. North Dakota ($2.03)3. New Mexico ($1.89) (flipped Red in 2004)4. Mississippi ($1.84)5. Alaska ($1.82)6. West Virginia ($1.74)7. Montana ($1.64)8. Alabama ($1.61)9. South Dakota ($1.59)10. Arkansas ($1.53)
States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:1. New Jersey ($0.62)2. Connecticut ($0.64)3. New Hampshire ($0.68) (flipped Blue in 2004)4. Nevada ($0.73)5. Illinois ($0.77)6. Minnesota ($0.77)7. Colorado ($0.79)8. Massachusetts ($0.79)9. California ($0.81)10. New York ($0.81)
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/writing/2004/11/red_states_feed.html
Sol, alot of the people who are against gay also are against interracial marriage too.
Welcome to the 21st century eh?
“…and i think the majority rules in a democrat nation.
Posted by: BibleBeater | August 10, 2007 at 10:03 AM ”
I guess there is your problem.
‘That is why America was not created to be a pure democracy.The Bill of Rights was specifically created to protect the rights of the minority from the overruling vote of the majority.
Posted by: brian | August 10, 2007 at 09:42 AM’
“Church won’t hold funeral for gay man
Sometimes this stuff just speaks for itself.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestne...
>>>snipAn Arlington church volunteered to host a funeral Thursday, then reneged on the invitation when it became clear the dead man’s homosexuality would be identified in the service.
The event placed High Point Church in the cross hairs of an issue many conservative Christian organizations are discussing: how to take a hard-line theological position on homosexuality while showing compassion toward gay people and their families.
>>>snipMr. Sinclair, 46, died Monday. He was a native of Fort Worth, a Navy veteran who served in Desert Storm helping rescuers find downed pilots, and a singer in the Turtle Creek Chorale, said his mother, Eva Bowers. He did not belong to a church.
>>
>>>snip”Some of those photos had very strong homosexual images of kissing and hugging,” he said. “My ministry associates were taken aback.”
>>>>
I bet the gay guy is ROLLING over in his grave. His mommy wanted the church funeral. I wonder if he did?
Yet another reason for pre-death arrangements and having a will.
Kissing and hugging. Two things that should NEVER be shown in church….
Cap’n
I didn’t write the piece or indicate I agreed with it — was interesting reading until Joe pointed out it was a myth / urban legend per snopes.com:
from Joe Williams:
Ken!
Snopes says NO!
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp
Posted by: Joe Williams | August 10, 2007 at 09:04 AM
Oh and golfnut dave?
How about we get rid of ALL the “money and stuff” benefits for BOTH straight and gay marriage?
I mean, that would REALLY save us all some money.
‘Cause ya know, asshole, YOUR benefits come out of MY pocket too!
I’ll give up the benefits of gay marriage if you get your dirty thievin’ hand out of MY pocket too.
What da ya say dave? Abolish ALL survivor benefits?
Uh oh, “U.S. Assessing (control of) Pakistan Nukes if Musharaf Falls” (parenthetical mine):
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/10/pakistan.nuclear/index.html
Really, that is just too bad. There is no legally justifiable reason that will prevent the eventual legality of gay marriage.
Posted by: brian | August 10, 2007 at 10:25 AM
And that my friend is what this whole gay civil-rights event is about. It is not a matter of equity as human beings, or compassion unalienable rights from God their creator. It’s not equal justice for all. It all about………..MONEY
Okay, thanks for the explanation, Ken.
Proves the old saying that “a rumor goes around the world twice while the truth is still putting on its pants.”
Pants? We don;t need no stinking pants !!!
or was that badges?
So wadday say golfnut?
I’ll give up my benefits if you give up YOUR benefits.
That way, we can REALLY save the taxpayers some money.
(crickets chirping)
So it’s NOT all about money for straight people?
Big eye roll. Jesus WEPT!
I was truly un-impressed to see the number of Dem. Candidates – including Obama – who still want to practice implied(or explicit) bigotry in our “free” country, where troops are supposedly fighting and dying to protect our “freedom” and “liberty” in the world (a phrase so LOVED by almost all of the conservatives) –
I have been doing some thinking on this issue of gay marriage… And MAYbe, MAYbe, if we can get a concensus of Civil Union, with full equality, it Might be a step in the right direction…
I thought about so-called “traditional” marriage… It is, after all, approved ONLY by the State… Even though I as clergy may fill out the Marriage Certificate/License, it is not a CHURCH document…
Regrdless of how many churches/priests/rabbis/etc., participate in a “ceremony of union(marriage)” it is not LEGAL without a License from the STATE!
To wit — EVERY so-called “Traditional” Marriage/Union in the country is, in fact, a Civil Union – legally..
Therefore, if EVERYBODY is required to have a Civil Union, which conveys full equality in the relationship… Gay/Straight/ or whatever… (excluding animals/children/goldfish/etc. – and all that sick Anti_Gay marriage bashing BS)
MAYbe that wouldnt be as bad as it might look on the surface…
Heterosexual couple – Civil UnionGay couple – Civil Union
Hmmmm might that be equality — even if through the back door??
Just a pondering type thought…
RON PAUL 2008Posted by: SolDevVB
I wish.I cannot believe Brownback is doing better than Paul. Maybe Ron should visit a prison?
“Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani is leading the pack of Republican presidential hopefuls, supported by 29 percent of respondents in a poll released Friday.Unannounced candidate former Sen. Fred Thompson is close behind with 22 percent, according to the CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll. Sen. John McCain of Arizona is a distant third with 16 percent, and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney had 12 percent support.
Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee follow with 3 percent each; Reps. Ron Paul of Texas and Tom Tancredo of Colorado with 2 percent; and former Wisconsin Gov. Tommy Thompson with 1 percent.”http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/10/gop.poll/index.html
Whoops, back to the gay thread thing ;->
ksfarmgrrl–Your link about the funeral does not work, at least for me. Says “Page not found”
Church actions right or wrong? On the surface of it, and as far as I can see, they were clearly in the wrong. The only “rightness” I can see is that since the deceased was not a member of the church, they have a right to not allow “guest” services, if they don;t meet the guidlines of the church. So , they had the right to not host the funeral. It is their property. However, they were clearly, in my view, wrong.
Hosting a funeral does not equate with accepting the lifestyle of the deceased.
Reaching out to to those the church describes as “sinners” is what the church is SUPPOSED to do.
The man was a military veteran. At the very least, his military service deserves respect.
HotDog,
Ron Paul has resoundingly won the majority of the online polls. So do we look at the phone calls – (made to whom, by whom, and which questions are asked) or do we look at people who are actively participating i.e. they made the effort to actually initiate participation in the poll?
So it’s NOT all about money for straight people?
Oh yes. Didn’t I tell you that in my first post?
It’s all about my pocket book for me. It will cost the government more to fund legal financial rights for your new class of citizen. That will result in higher taxes for me (e.g. tax the rich, they are sinfully so). Except for certain idiots who believe there really is a money tree out back. It will cost my employer more money to fund your high risk dependent for medical care. The military has allowances for spouse too, which I suppose is probably part of “don’t ask”.
So yes, I will support candidates who are opposed to civil unions for my own financial reasons.
Isn’t that much more honest than for claiming religious convictions?
Whoops, back to the gay thread thing ;->Posted by: SolDevVB | August 10, 2007 at 10:43 AM
The Human Rights Campaign and Logo TV channel did co-host a forum for gay issues.
As I understand it, this marked the first time in history such a discussion had taken place on American television.
History making will usually invoke discussion, Sol.
Try this link LJ
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/081007dnmetgayfuneral.3617689.html
It works for me.
So golfnut, no answer on giving up the financial benefits of STRAIGHT marriage?
That would REALLY save you some money. If you say no, then I guess we know what a hypocrit you really are.
poll?Posted by: SolDevVB
I personally think all polls are rigged, or at the very least inaccurate. Nothing scientific to support my view.
I thought of you the other day when I saw a moped in traffic. Here was this tiny motorcycle with a BIG FAT RON PAUL 2008 bumper sticker stuck across the teanie tiny rear tire guard.
I’d like a metalic one. I don’t do the sticky bumper stickers for anybody on any of my vehicles.
Ross Perot did well in the Polls and his ideas were similar to Ron Paul’s especially on how to run Government.
It didn’t get him very far though.
It’s so much fun to throw out the bait and watch the wingnuts rise to take it.
Hypocrits all.
There is no NON religious reason to ban gay marriage. If it is money, as golfnut says, then give up the benefits of straight marriage. Otherwise? Hypocrits.
And if you need the “word” marriage to make you feel better? hehehehe.
What does THAT say about the strenght of YOUR marriages?
And wasnt golfnut’s wife leaving him? Maybe that is why he is so anti marriage.
She probably left him for a womam who wasnt greasy, stinky and bigoted.
hehehehehheeh………..
Chas., you’ve picked up the tenor of blog postings of Ben and me over time. If the government would remove the sacramental term “marriage” from the various statutes and replace same with “civil union” or similar term which carries no sacramental connotation, then we’d all be ahead, I believe.
I applaud your candor, Mucho more Famous Davey. Were it that more would be as honest concerning their position. I don’t agree with your position, but again, the candor is refreshing.
So golfnut, are you too afraid to answer my question about straights giving up THEIR financial benefits of marriage?
I mean, since you want to save money and all. Currently, gay folks get NO financial benefits of marriage. So any savings would have to come out of your pocket.
And I could save money by not paying for YOUR benefits with my taxes!
Answer?
(crickets chirping)
How much water will the Iowa straw poll hold using decertified electronic voting devices with no chance of a manual recount by ANYONE.
GOPers, if you are not a Romney fan, speak out !!!!
http://rense.com/general77/straw.htm
“Each campaign was welcome to have representatives witness the feeding of the paper ballots into the counting computers but that there would not be a manual count of any kind. I then asked what would happen to the original paper ballots. She asked me to hold for a moment while she checked. In our earlier phone conversation she said that I needed to talk to “Eric” the Iowa State GOP’s Political Director so I can only imagine she was likely getting directions from him. She came back on the line to say that the paper ballots would remain with the machines and would not elaborate further. I asked if the paper would be destroyed and she would not/could not answer.
“So there you have it. The same machines that California just decertified 3 days ago and Florida is in the spot light about as well, are going to be used to determine the future . . . .”
“THERE WOULD NOT BE A MANUAL COUNT OF ANY KIND” !!!
Davey,Well, I guess you are honest in your statement.
I do not disagree with you that gay marriages would cost money to everyone; straight marriages cost money to everyone, too.
I do disagree that this should not be a reason to prevent them. From a legal and policy perspective, the government cannot prevent gay marriage because it would cost more. Of course, you are free to use that as your reasoning to vote against any gay rights items.
So… if we cant get survivor benefits from SS, tax breaks, etc for OUR marriages…
Can I stop paying into the system too? Would that be ok if YOU just funded YOUR benefits without the contribution of gay folks?
I’d like my money back on the iraq war too…
no answer on giving up the financial benefits of STRAIGHT marriage?
Yes I would give my breaks if I believed everyone would give up theirs. I’m close to libertarian in my views. I fight for ending all social handouts and do not believe in robbing from the rich to pay for the poor. (That would be a compassionate religious principle not a constitutional one.)
So the last thing I want to see happen is allowing more social engineering by big brother and those who feel they can hold judgement over other human beings.
It’s nothing personal. I don’t care what you do in the privacy of your own home.
But just like you, it’s all about money to me.
“Yes I would give my breaks if I believed everyone would give up theirs.”
So… since I DO NOT GET breaks, I guess you will have to give up yours first.
There is nothing for me to give up. I get nothing.
You get everything.
So go for it. Send your social benfits back to the govt.
Or is walking your big talk too much trouble?
So… if we wipe out ALL benefits of marriage, THEN you would be ok with gay marriage.
Jesus WEPT. I think that just about says it all. Make it worthless and THEN the gays can have it?
No wonder your wife left you….
THanks Ksfarmgrrl, that link worked. A couple of extra things did bother me when I read the article. One ws the possibleinclusion of an alter call? Never seen one at a funeral. Improper. Second was that the family wanted to
“do their own thing, with their own people” (paraphrased). That’s not usually done either. The problem the church had, I believe, is allowing this service, and their belief that it might give the impression that they condone such a lifestyle. One they clearly do not, and are entitled to not condone. However, expectations should have been stated at the outset, discussions held before volunteering, and after (belatedly) a problem was found.
In my opinion, since the volunteering was already done, it should have been carrried out. I do think they were trying, hence the offer to pay for a different faciltiy, and still provide the food, etc. But, still, they should have went through with it as a matter of compassion
This is worth reposting:
I think that the proposition of going to Baghdad is also fallacious. I think if we were going to remove Saddam Hussein we would have had to go all the way to Baghdad, we would have to commit a lot of force because I do not believe he would wait in the Presidential Palace for us to arrive. I think we’d have had to hunt him down. And once we’d done that and we’d gotten rid of Saddam Hussein and his government, then we’d have had to put another government in its place. What kind of government? Should it be a Sunni government or Shi’i government or a Kurdish government or Ba’athist regime? Or maybe we want to bring in some of the Islamic fundamentalists? How long would we have had to stay in Baghdad to keep that government in place? What would happen to the government once U.S. forces withdrew? How many casualties should the United States accept in that effort to try to create clarity and stability in a situation that is inherently unstable? I think it is vitally important for a President to know when to use military force. I think it is also very important for him to know when not to commit U.S. military force. And it’s my view that the President got it right both times, that it would have been a mistake for us to get bogged down in the quagmire inside Iraq.
—Cheney at the Washington Institute’s Soref Symposium, April 29, 1991
it would have been a mistake for us to get bogged down in the quagmire inside Iraq.
Bogged down
Quagmire
Inside Iraq.
Unbelievable.
Chas.,Good points on the differences between the Church marriage and the State marriage.
Most people do not really understand that gay people can get married in the US in Kansas today. They can go to a church that will perform a marriage ceremony for them, and under the auspices of that religion, they will be married. Of course, that would not be recognized by the state, but they would be married and there is nothing to prevent that, since it is purely religious.
The State recognition of the marriage is all based on civil contract. For any marriage, gay or straight to be recognized, the State must approve the union. Affectively, a couple married in a church goes the the State and signs a civil union document. It is called a marriage license, but it is a civil union contract.
…and I still wonder if the gay guy WANTED a church funeral.
I know I sure as hell wouldnt and would be really PISSED if my family ignored my wishes.
That’s why I have a will and my DPOA and heirs know my wishes.
Send my mouth way down south and kiss my ass goodbye. I dont care if they put me in a hefty bad and carry my ass to the curb.
Just dont put me near a church…
Editors? Please remove that offensive post.
If you ban Ian for racism, I think that FU ranks right up there for banning.
Unless there is a double standard…
Oh and golfnut? You always nic steal and troll after getting your ass kicked.
I guess we should have expected this.
Editors?
It\’s a great and valuable site!
Posted by: Bill | August 10, 2007 at 11:05 AM
This isnt spam. This is DELIBERATE trolling and promotion of obscenity.
PLEASE not only remove, but trace who posted this.
throw out the bait and watch the wingnuts rise to take it.Hypocrits all.Posted by: ksfarmgrrl
So golfnut, are you too afraid to answer my question
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl
Jesus WEPT.
No wonder your wife left you….
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl
You know Kansas Farm Girl, I really don’t get you. All day long every day you post your opinion (actually selling and advertising at WEBLOG expense) on gays.
You insist on filling the blogs each and every day with your big iusse.
Then, you act all upset that there are actually real human beings who do not agree with your belief. (Imagine that)
Then you get indignant and begin name calling, repetitive postings meant to hurt others (Jesus Wept you must admit is making fun of christians)
Then you admit to “baiting” other posters.
Then, you label me as a “wingnut” regardless of the political position I posted.
Then you call me a “golfnut” which I haven’t a clue what sort of derogatory meaning that holds.
You call me a hypocrit, or my class of poster. When really it is you who have all the signs.
,,,,,,
You are just about as close to being a TROLL as anyone else on this board.
Be offended all you like…it’s a popular opinion…even if YOU don’t like it.
You know it’s true.
Editors, please remove farmgirl’s offensive post. I’m offended.
Y’all remember I called this weeks – or even a month or two ago-. The GOP has already decided FOR you that Romney will get the nod. Giuliani will burn up in some sort of scandal while Romney bobs and weaves his way around the tough issues.
Now you have the GOP using decertified voting machines, absolutely NO manual recount because they refuse to turn over the actual ballots. Wake up republicans. You still have a mind, a voice, AND A VOTE !!!!
Jesus Wept
The shortest verse in the bible. So how is quoting the bible making fun of christians?
Disagreement is one thing. Nasty trolling is another. Obscenity is yet another.
dont worry. You’ve been reported. Perhaps the WE blog will actually be able to trace you this time since your obscene post was done with an account.
Uh, and it wasnt ME who told anyone to shut up. That would be FU. So… I think it is the wingnuts here causing a stink.
Keep it up. With every post, the WE gets closer to nailing you.
Hey y’all, lets take a WALK !!!
Dont you think that is what the wingnuts want sol? To shut up the opposition? I mean, that is what the post said.
So… we just abandon the field to the bigots? They win by being the nastyest?
heheheheheheh. They must be so proud…
What you saying?
Are you saying that homos=obscene?
I didn’t say that.
Oh and golfnut? You always nic steal and troll after getting your ass kicked.
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | August 10, 2007 at 11:11 AM
EDITOR OF THE WEBLOG: Please do validate that all posts with Dave or David are not the same person as FU. PLEASE LET EVERYONE KNOW THE ANSWER.
For fellow posters: Please email the editor and also make this request. For the record, I am not posting the FU.
But for the record, my various Dave/David posts might be called trolling. But they are all obviously the same poster. I am doing so because everytime I start posting under a standard NIC, I get attacked for my views, followed around, and called names some of which are vulgar.
Stocks tumbled around the world today while the U.S. Federal Reserve and other central banks in Europe, Japan and elsewhere continued pumping money into the financial system to keep it functioning despite spreading turmoil in the credit markets.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/10/AR2007081000689.html?hpid=topnews
I know that this isn’t near as important as the usual open thread gay vs troll content. But I get a little nervous when world markets start making crashing noises.
Now back to our regular gay vs troll programming…
Oh my.
Too bad I have no time for commenting on the blog today.
Or maybe that’s a _good_ thing. ;)
Go get ‘em WE editors. You have ALL the ammo you need today.
Farmie,
On my WALK, should I pass by a festering dog turd, I most assuredly would not address it ;->
You “people” fear anyone not bowing down to the homo agenda.
Too many one trick ponies on this thread.
Phantom – gues I am a one trick pony too ;->
Iowa Straw Poll, Diebold Voting Machineshttp://whereabouts.blogster.com/iowa_straw_poll_diebold.html
Romney ‘leader’ to fix Ames Diebold poll
California to recertify insecure voting machineshttp://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/cat_vote_fraud.html
Iowa Straw Poll Voting Machines in Questionhttp://www.nationalexpositor.com/News/229.html
Iowa straw poll to use inaccurate Diebold electronic voting machines!http://www.freedomradio.us/Joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1059&Itemid=136
YES – despite a study from computer scientists at the University of California paid for by the Secretary of State of California – publicized in the New York Times and the Los Angeles Times LAST SATURDAY (July 28, 2007) – the Iowa GOP is STILL planning to use the easily rigged Diebold computers to “count” the vote at the Straw poll!http://www.votefraud.org/ames_appeal_08022007.htm
ksfarmgrrl SolDevVB
Even though we disagree, I am not FU. Looking up the thread, I can understand you not responding.
But once you hear from the editor, will you at least consider clearing my name?
Thanks
PS: Have them check every Dav* post (* wildcard for anything following).
I knew it! FU envoked the “gay agenda” Cue the scary music. Dun-dun-duuuuuuuun.
Look out FU, the gays are coming for you buddy. I heard the “Queer Eye” guys are looking for an ignorant Kansan to dress up. You should totally apply. You’d probably still be ignorant, but at least you’d _look_ fabulous.
What the……?
????
Tell me about it. The GOP rigging the straw poll. That totally sucks.
RON PAUL 2008 !!!!
The GOP rigging the straw poll. That totally sucks.
Posted by: SolDevVB
Did I miss a link to the source of this story?
Dose the GOP using provably hackable voting machines, then refusing to allow a recount and refusing to relinquish the ballots piss anyone else off?
Can y’all not smell SCAM ?????
Republicans, your decision has been made FOR you. Your voice and vote don’t count. Y’all cool with that????
Right in front of you hot dog…
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/08/open-thread-810.html#comment-79044808
Well enough of sticking the homos back in the closet for now.
Everyone hear the latest on the global warming hoax? Yeah, turns out there was still a y2k bug in the calculations and the hotest year on record is not 1998, but was 1932 (thirty something).
Yeah.
You know all those temperature monitoring station? Well, turns out they were not placed like they should be. Many were placed near artificial heat sources.
But, I’m sure the followers of Algore will ignore these facts as well….
Snuffy, this one’s for you.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/10/real_estate/mortgage_meltdown_crushing_other_markets/index.htm?postversion=2007081011
“ebola-like speed”
hemorrhaging cash VT?
So FU, are you contending that the global climate is not changing?
Dave, consider that men are promiscuous more than women. gay men then would be really promiscous. if you dont want a gay union to affect your wallet then not encouraging them to make commitments to another might cost more money as AIDS spreads. i know some married people cheat so some gay people might cheat to but at leaast a union like marriage, but not marriage would help make them be with only one partner. thats what marriagei s for to. to keep men from screwing around. but gay men spread AIDS more than straight men. that will cost you more money if they are dying in a hospital with no insurance.
BRIAN!!!!!
My contention is that it’s natural. The very idea that mankind can change it is arrogant. The scientific theory behind it all is flawed with bad input.
Sol, I’m not in any mortgage backed securities personally. It does appear there is a bit of a cash squeeze, given the infusions of same by various central banks.
The economy should right itself. With housing prices falling, speculation should increase. The difference being that the borrowers should have a better credit rating.
Sound about right?
Thanks for the link, VT.
Am I one of a few who see a serious problem here? Maybe I’m just paranoid, but this really looks serious, IMHO.
Uh oh, another fact that “does not compute” for the brain-dead free-marketeers.
Energy de-regulation FAILS to bring down electricity costs and instead DRIVES THEM UP.
Quote:
While average prices rose 21% in regulated states from 2002 to 2006, they leapt 36% in deregulated states where rate caps expired, according to a study by Ken Rose, senior fellow at the Institute of Public Utilities at Michigan State University.
Electric rates for Baltimore-area customers surged 50% in June after a 15% jump last year as rate caps came off. There have been similar surges in Connecticut, Delaware and Rhode Island. Meanwhile, little, if any, retail competition has materialized for consumers.
Deregulation, which affects regions with more than half the U.S. population, “hasn’t panned out the way we had hoped,” Rose says.
Rose and other industry experts largely blame wholesale power markets dominated by a handful of large suppliers. In some cases, these giants have been accused of manipulating prices in ways that echo complaints during the 2000 California energy crisis. Some economists say electricity isn’t suited to competition because it’s needed 24 hours a day and can’t be stored, giving sellers too much leverage.
Unquote.
But . . . but . . . but, you mean we can’t trust big businesses to hold down costs on their own? You mean that whenever business has an advantage it will gouge the consumer for every penny it can get?
Yes and yes.
Time to buy up!
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2007-08-09-power-prices_N.htm
Put solar panels on your roof, drive an electric car… you’re all set. I posted yesterday GM just made a deal with a battery company. They should leap-frog Toyota by 2-5 years.
Ford is using soy-foam instead of petroleum foam for making seats.
It’s all going to settle out Capn. Can’t FREAKIN wait !!!
Oh, really, Sollie?
GM had a beautiful little electric car program in the 90’s that they destroyed after it became too popular.
Maybe this time they mean it, since Tesla is bringing out its car that will prove once and for all that electric cars can work.
Y’all have a good weekend. Don’t let the GOP steal the straw poll. Put up some solar panels and buy a Tesla Roadster.
Snuffy, I don’t think you’re paranoid. There are, to my mind, many concerns over the current fallout from the subprime mess, which looks to be spreading a bit.
Sol, you may be right. I’m reserving judgment for now.
Capn, without going into the enervating posting I normally do on matters like this, suffice it to say that when a formerly regulated industry (traditionally regulated due to the economies of scale resultant from a monopoly, the monopoly being the most efficient way to construct, e.g., power lines) becomes deregulated, there are always price adjustments.
Okay, fine, VT.
Why are the price adjustments always UP.
As for solar panels, since Kansas will not let you sell the electric power you generate back to KG & E (or whatever they call it now) for anywhere close to what they sell it to you, it’s hard to make it cost effective.
Speaking of price-gouging a near monopoly, we need to get cable TV.
Is there any lower cost alternative to COX’s 46 dollar a month package?
600 dollars a year to watch ad-crammed television. Can people get any dumber?
Wasn’t there a comic strip years ago called “Snuffy Smith”?
A price-gouging near monopoly, I meant to say
Yeah . . . doncha just hate people who take nic-names from comic book characters?
Hey . . . wait a minute . . .
Robbing from the rich to give to the poor is a bunch of right-wing hooey.
If anything it’s the other way around. People who have bad credit (poor who can’t pay their bills) get jacked on everything from car insurance to car loans. They don’t get tax write offs and subsidies. It is the MIDDLE class that gets the most screwed of all, not the rich.
So if the tax system is SO unfair to the rich, why do they keep making more and more money while everyone elses wealth has DECREASED?
Like one right wing republican said on Glen Beck the other day “hey as long as the rich are supporting the economy, too bad for the poor” as if they don’t matter at all.
By the way, this Dave guy doesn’t sound anything like ole Goof testicles.
Seems to me that the argument about survivor/medical benefits in marriage(civilunion) are a totally bogus objection… I mean, how much $$$$ will it cost if Bush gets to give legal status to illegal aliens??? That will REALLY cause increases somewhere!!
Capn, such is the power of control of a monopoly. BTW, before your head is bitten off, long distance rates have fallen, with the costs of local service increasing as the result of the breakup of AT&T.
Chas-
I think it couild cost a lot for survivor/medical benefits to be expended to gay couples. Regardless, I still think it is the right thing to do. And given the resounding defeat of the immigaraiton proposal, bringing that (and BUSH) into the equation
doesn;t make any difference, and was only a deflection.
but gay men spread AIDS more than straight men. that will cost you more money if they are dying in a hospital with no insurance.
BibleBeater
Again, you need to read what I have posted. I would not pay for anyone to go to the hospital but me (or my family). The rest of your post is ludicrous and I won’t comment. No disrespect intended.
Capn,
Get a HD TV and get all the local stations in perfect digital reception with a decent antenna.
Free.
Sure, not all the channels that cable offers…but not that big of loss really.
I mean, how much $$$$ will it cost if Bush gets to give legal status to illegal aliens??? That will REALLY cause increases somewhere!!
Posted by: Chas.
Ahem (clearing throat) cough-cough!
Democrats Manipulated Vote to Allow Benefits For Illegal Aliens (Rep. Tom Price)
August 3rd, 2007
The tactics employed by this Democrat leadership were shameful, and a disservice to representative government and the American people. Changing the outcome of a vote to give benefits to illegal aliens is not only unacceptable, it is wrong.
So who is costing us money chas?
However, should the remaining “Baby Bells” ever escape the regulation over the charges made to the “resellers” for use of the lines these Baby Bells own, expect the line charges to escalate to the point that the resellers’ rates will need to be greater than that offered by said Baby Bells.
Republicans, your decision has been made FOR you. Your voice and vote don’t count. Y’all cool with that???? Posted by: SolDevVB | August 10, 2007 at 11:44 AM
No I am not cool with that. I am cool with electronic voting machines at all. I see more danger from the new machines than chad’s on paper ballots. It’s goes way beyond the republican straw poll to me. If people do not have confidence in the vote, our democracy is doomed.
But I’m naturally suspicious anyway. I like the clerk at Walmart to ask me for a photo ID.It protects everyone.
I am not cool vice I am cool.
Where in the Constitution is the Government given the authority to give legal recognition to marriages?
I see a marriage as none of the Government’s business.
Income tax forms should have one filing status – TAXPAYER.
What difference does it make to the Government whether I’m married to a man or to a woman or not married at all?
As a married individual, I couldn’t care less if the Government recognized the marriage or not.
What? Is the Government taking a Moral position to encourage Marriage and Families? I think not.
All of the Government Socialist programs reward those who are NOT married.
So why does the Government care about marriage?
You are just about as close to ksfarmgrrl being a TROLL as much as anyone else on this board.Posted by: Nobody Dave | August 10, 2007 at 11:14 AM
By the definition posted on this blog the other day, you are absolutely correct Dave (or whatever you are called).
Is it possible that farm girl is FU?
It mean, it does make her the victim and distracts from any other opposing view.
Just asking.
Posting against herself?
Never thought of that angle.
She does like being the victim.
Max… Historiclly, marriage is licensed/registered/etc. by the State… only Blessed or Solemnized by a Church or Religious Group… Check your history… Even here, in USA, the State licenses marriage…
Actually, “marriage” as has been pointed out upthread, is inreality a Civil Contract… thus making it even more bogus for the state to disallow Civil Contract to ALL people, regardless of sexual orientation
So why does the Government care about marriage?
Posted by: Max
Wholeheartedly agree with you. Take away my IRS deductions – but only so long as you take away everyones. That is the fair way to go. That is the right thing to do. That is equality for all!
In fact, a national sales tax would take race, sex, ethnic background, age, and every other discriminatory factor out of the picture.
Regarding that prematurely gaveled vote in Congress.
It has been sent to the Ethics Committee for review where it will (fill in the blank here.)
“turns out there was still a y2k bug in the calculations and the hotest year on record is not 1998, but was 1932 (thirty something)….But, I’m sure the followers of Algore will ignore these facts as well….”
Posted by: FU | August 10, 2007 at 11:46 AM
That’s FICTION, not fact. And sounds like a variation of the falsehood re the Arctic being warmer in the 1930’s.
‘2005 Was Warmest Year in Over a Century’http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20060124/
“Top 5 warmest years worldwide since the 1890’s:1) 20052) 19983) 20024) 20035) 2006 ”
See graph… early 1940’s = warmer than the 1930’s.
Saw your post above Chas, very good post on civil vs religious marriage.
I just don’t see where the States or the Federal government should have any role in forcing a Civil Contract between two consenting adults.
One argument is that the State and Federal government have some interest in the welfare of any of the children of such marriage.
But, then the State and Federal government do not step in to force a contract between two adults who choose to live together, not get married, and still have kids. Though some States may then recognize a common law marriage after a period of years, and so force by default, a civil contract to be created.
I don’t understand who gave the Goverenment this power and what is their legal basis for controlling marriage?
“You know all those temperature monitoring station? Well, turns out they were not placed like they should be. Many were placed near artificial heat sources.
But, I’m sure the followers of Algore will ignore these facts as well….”Posted by: FU | August 10, 2007 at 11:46 AM
Potential ‘micro-site’ effects? There’re not a problem.
‘No man is an (Urban Heat) Island’http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/07/no-man-is-an-urban-heat-island
“Max” –
It’s the classic *NON*-issue; the kind that persuades the twice-born rabble to pony up bucks to Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells and James Dobson, et al.
http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/2007/08/1998_no_longer_the_hottest_yea.html
According to the blogger at the above Website, Steve McIntire of Toronto, investigated the data on U.S. mean temperatures.
I couldn’t’ find McIntire’s blog as the old Website appears to be down.
It appears that NASA has confirmed the deviation error and corrected their data.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.D.txt
so it appears that 1998 is no long the year that is officially registered as the hottest, but 1934 as 1934 shows the largest deviation from the mean.
Four of the top 10 years of US CONUS high temperature deviations are now from the 1930s: 1934, 1931, 1938 and 1939, while only 3 of the top 10 are from the last 10 years (1998, 2006, 1999). Several years (2000, 2002, 2003, 2004) fell well down the leaderboard, behind even 1900. (World rankings of temperature are calculated separately.)
And are “artificial heat sources” causing this??
‘Arctic sea ice watch’http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/08/arctic-sea-ice-watch/
“The minimum extent is usually in early to mid September, but this year, conditions by Aug 9 had already beaten all previous record minima.
Given that there is at least a few more weeks of melting to go, it looks like the record set in 2005 will be unequivocally surpassed. It could be interesting to follow especially in light of model predictions discussed previously.”
‘Arctic Sea Ice decline in the 21st Century’http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/01/arctic-sea-ice-decline-in-the-21st-century/
Yeah…
I got links too!
http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php?extend.24
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.D.txt
I fail to see how some supposedly normal heterosexuals are threatened by gay people. It does not affect them in any way. Gays pay taxes and into the Social Security fund just like everyone else. They share the same “burden” of citizenship as we do, but some would elect to deny them the same rights as we enjoy.
That has to be hypocrisy in it’s most blatant form.
If your heterosexual marriage is threatened by two other adults being in love, then you have a much bigger problem than just homophobia.
.
Makes one wonder FU, if NASA flubbed that data, what else has the GORACLE and IPCC done to cook the books on GW.
It seems FU believes that the U.S. = “Global”.
He should watch Gore’s movie, or read his book ‘An Inconvenient Truth (page 18) which has Van Sant’s whole earth map. Also here,
http://www.vterrain.org/Imagery/WholeEarth/index.html
Well, we’re part of the globe so shouldn’t our temps be higher now than they were decades ago? Since we’re such a horrible poluter of the world?
Irrelevant cosmos.
The fact that basic temperature means were incorrectly reported for a huge section of the World skews the whole concept of the Alarmists and many, many, many of their theories were based on the deviation of the temperature means based on NASA studies.
-Including Computer Climate models.
FU,
I don’t the cause of McIntire’s WebSite being down. But I find it interesting that the idea of a Denial of Service Attack has been launched at the Blog site.
This would not surprise me a bit as the Alarmists like to “shut up” anyone that has a differing view than they do.
Perhaps so. I’ve heard this report on the bad data a few times now but somehow it’s not made the big news. What a shocker.
FU, Kansas… That topic took up nearly half of LImbaugh’s rants yesterday… he never could back it up with anything other than some report that claimed NASA had not put the numbers together right… But, again, He couldnt come up with any real proof!! The AGW people just so dont get it yet!!
Snuffy, if you’re still “listening”, here’s someone who agrees that what’s going on right now with the financial markets is a “big deal”.
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=080907B
Chas,
The proof is here from NASA’s own numbers and Website. Note that the deviation of the Temperature mean in 1998 is no longer the highest. Take a look at 1934.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.D.txt
The deviations were calculated incorrectly and that was the issue.
NASA corrected them and that correction is now shown on their Website.
Someone posted a question as to why a “green card” is called a green card, even though it’s not green. Per the link below, the predecessor to the current form, introduced after WW II was printed on green paper, and the name has stuck.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Permanent_Resident_Card
FU,
The curious thing about this latest temperature mean calculation mistake is that it was done under NASA’s Dr. Hansen’s team GISS satellite data a part of NASA.
You know, the same Dr. Hansen who claimed he wasn’t given enough publicity about his Global Warming findings.
It appears now that the new findings on the calculation error has escaped the Mainstream Media and Dr. Hansen no longer wants the publicity because his team was responsible for the error that could change the entire climate change debate.
There will be much more scrutiny paid to the so-called undisputed numbers from now on.
Fed’s made the biggest infusion into the credit market since 9/17/01, that shoud tell people how serious the situation is.
From VT’s earlier link : “”This week is making more sense,” he said. “The economy is a basket case.”Funny George was taking credit for his economy yesterday! Today the WH has no comment on the Feds. actions.
I just hope this global warming fad fades away soon like past hysteria. We’ve wasted enough money and time on this crap.
I wonder what the next alarmist crisis will be? Any takers?
Here’s one: “over duckulation” I’ve seen WAY more ducks and geese this year. It must be a problem and must be man-made. So, of course, we’ll need to start a new federal program and raise taxes (on the evil rich) and stamp out this problem!
“The fact that basic temperature means were incorrectly reported for a huge section of the World…”Posted by: kansas | August 10, 2007 at 02:18 PM
“a huge section of the World”?? The U.S. is a relatively small section of Earth. AND much of the human-caused warming is happening farther north (Arctic, Siberia, etc)
The very small size of the U.S. corrections is INSIGNIFICANT compared to the much LARGER warming trend.
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20070208/
And EXPLAIN how a few minor (and corrected) temperature readings have CAUSED observed natural changes — earlier spring snow melts, shifts/changes in plant and animal locations, etc.
Real Dave etc.
Register and you won’t be mistaken for any one else. Ask Phil.
Or ignore the posters posing as you.
Easy cosmos,
The GISS algorithms were used world wide as an accurate way to demonstrate temperature means.
It turns out that data accumulated and subjected to the GISS algorithms are incorrect and other countries are having to re-calculate their data.
But as an authority on this as you are cosmos, I thought the admission of error would be forthcoming and obvious that this has serious implications.
Since the satellite data was accumulate across a broad sweep of North America (U.S. included) and the fact that North America is the third largest land mass in the World, I find that significant.
By the way, Europe is sixth in the World on the list of size of land mass.
“But I find it interesting that the idea of a Denial of Service Attack has been launched at the Blog site.
This would not surprise me a bit as the Alarmists like to “shut up” anyone that has a differing view than they do.”Posted by: Kansas | August 10, 2007 at 02:24 PM
No, scientists just point out that their “differing view” is wrong. It’s easy, and FUN.
‘No man is an (Urban Heat) Island’http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/07/no-man-is-an-urban-heat-island
Vaughn – thought of you today when I heard the liquidity issues. Wheeee…here we go again.
Too many over-eager buyers, and greedy bankers making loans for no payments for five years with a balloon after that time. Buyers thinking they could roll the house by then, and pocket a tidy profit. Banks thinking of all that accrued interest.
Both wrong.
I’m all out of peanuts now… C Y all later!!
Nice info on urban island effect cosmos, but it has little to do with the issue at hand.
cosmos, you are having trouble finding information on this error aren’t you.
No hyperlinks to give for your side?Has Mr. Hyperlink been buffaloed by his own kind?
Why are your scientists hiding this from the MSM cosmos?
Is it because their research might turn to mush because they based it on bad data?
:)
FU, (what a name, btw,) the Global Warming fad is showing great strain already.
Al Super-Gore is only detracting from the democrat candidates when he tries to make waves, and although they give the topic ‘lip service’ they aren’t going out on a limb for it.
My prediction is that in another three years the GW roar will have slowed to a dull murmur and within another two – it will be relegated to the murky annals of the greatest conspiracy theories. lol
When I took out a line of credit the bank pushed hard for an interest only line of credit, I declined.
Wonderful, I see farmie rounded up a few stragglers to play her “let’s pretend gays are victims,” topic today.
Why, farmie…why?Just let it go…..
Don’t you think others have a right to use the Open Thread for other topics without you doing that EVERYDAY?!
I dunno, maybe it’s better my time is severely limited these days.
But don’t you have some chickens to butcher for tonight’s feast? I think I’m actually going to come and try the fare soon – to see what all this fuss is about.
Troll,
The corrections are INSIGNIFICANT compared to the observed warming trend.
And RealClimate does address the potential ‘micro-site’ effects.
Says who cosmos, quote me a course that states the corrections by NASA are insignificant. Specifically cosmos, not some generic hodgepodge of geekiness.
Micro-site effects are not the same as a mathematically based algorithm that has been proven to have faulty calculations.
I can’t wait for all the crow you followers are going to have to eat once this hoax is realized for waht it is: a hoax! You’ve been duped!
course=source
Phantom – that was a smart choice. The banks have totally disregarded the once-secure loan to value ratios of their lending practices on homes, followed the path of revolving credit hollow-promises and pulled some rabbits out of hats so folks who couldn’t normally afford houses – were able to purchase them.
“No money down.”
“No payment for 5 years.”
And the sad thing is – the average buyer is so happy to get into a home that they buy into it and the bank makes off like a bandit.
But they got too greedy – they linked in with some big union building developers and contractors and they’re paying the price now. The developers got their money, the builders got their money, and the bank and the home buyers are getting the shaft.
In a housing Bear Market, those interest-only loans are causing a lot of sleepless nights now.
The guys who wrote the book _Freakonomics_ now have a blog on the New York Times:
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/
‘Global warming: Met Office predicts plateau then record temperatures’http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/aug/10/weather.uknews
“British scientists are predicting a succession of record-breaking high temperatures in the most detailed forecast of global warming’s impact on weather around the world.
Powerful computer simulations used to create the world’s first global warming forecast suggests temperature rises will stall in the next two years, before rising sharply at the end of the decade.
From 2010, they warn, every year has at least a 50% chance of exceeding the record year of 1998 when average global temperatures reached 14.54C.”
(H/T to http://desmogblog.com )
Troll,
You believe that the minor corrections are significant?
Then YOU post the source proving it.
GS, I would suggest that most of the “banks” didn’t get the shaft, having packaged the loans and sold the same on the secondary market; thus, the homeowners are holding the bag, as well as the investors in the mortgage-backed securities market.
Everybody panic!
True, VT, but banks have been making more ‘in house’ loans of these sorts lately.
What did you make of the Fed and thirty-some billion dollars today?
GS, my take, uninformed as it is, is that the Fed was making the cash infusion to attempt to 1) alleviate what I see as a cash squeeze, and 2) to attempt to settle the market a bit. Monday should be interesting.
Personally, I’ve been increasing my stock market exposure. Something of a contrarian.
Makes sense, Phantom, if you’re a contrarian. I suspect your increased equity exposure is directed to stock in companies with good fundamentals which, to your experienced eye, are trading at an “undervalued” price right now.
GS, here’s a take.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/10/markets/markets_0405/index.htm?cnn=yes
‘Global warming totally disproved again’ [NOT!]http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2007/08/global_warming_totally_disprov.php
“Well, it’s hard to see from the graph, but 1998 went from being 0.01 degrees warmer than 1934 in the US, to being 0.02 degrees cooler, so he was able to present this as OMG! 1998 NO LONGER THE HOTTEST YEAR ON RECORD, NOW IT’S 1934. Right wing blogs started foaming at their mouths.”
More at link.
TRACY – Gemayal was not only Christian but he was also Phalange (via his Kateab Party) and allied with the Israeli invasion. Lebanese Phalange was aligned with Franco’s Phalange party in Spain; which was allied with Hitler in WW 2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kataeb
His alliance with Israel/USA has branded him a traitor in many Lebanese eyes.
Also, compare the 5-year mean in the 1930s to after 1995.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.D_lrg.gif
That, and I expect the Bush Fed. to make the $ flow like a drunk Republican in a whore house!
Tomato-head….you lose.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8QUECGG1&show_article=1
“WASHINGTON (AP) – Frequent tours for U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan have stressed the all-volunteer force and made it worth considering a return to a military draft, President Bush’s new war adviser said Friday. “
“Bush picked Lute in mid-May as a deputy national security adviser with responsibility for ensuring efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan are coordinated with policymakers in Washington. Lute, an active-duty general, was chosen after several retired generals turned down the job.”
PNAC and AIPAC are meeting at a “members only” site to discuss when Bush should declare Martial Law { after some catastrophic just event prior to the November elections.
Right now the White House { Cheney } is “testing the water” as to how the American Public reacts to congress disobeying the mandate given it by the People.
That reaction will indicate how much trouble to expect during the final takeover of the United States Government.
Israeli newspapers are openly discussing how many centers of control will be needed. Some say two, one in Washington, the other in Israel, but the consensus seems to be just one Control Center in Israel is all that will be needed.
Local Police along with State Police should be enough, when all are operated under the mantle of the 180,000 members of “Homeland Security” after the imaginary crisis is announced.
Wrong again cosmos, (notice I called him by his proper nic instead of being immature like him)
The newly corrected data, blows your temperature increase trend right out of the water.
It also shows that CO2 increase and temperature rise is unrelated at least in the 20th century. Because the mean temperatures that replaced the old data reflect a trend of temperature without a correlation to CO2 increases.
Your scientists are back to square one now cosmos.
Perhaps this time, they will include “all” of the data in their Climate Models instead of nitpicking positive and negative feedbacks that only include “their ” version that makes their data seem more threatening than it is.
Looks like the GW Alarmists have a lot of work to do.
Where is the MSM on this cosmos?
Embarrassed that they trusted Hansen and they now don’t want egg on their face?
“Israeli newspapers are openly discussing how many centers of control will be needed.”
link please
News is breaking really fast, so I’ll get to it when I find the time.
Don’t you read? That would surely help, if help is what you really had in mind.
Don’t you read?No I am counting on you for that
More from the Wall Street Journal
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2007/08/07/speechless-in-chicago
I’d like to see the WEblog adopt the comment rating system they have on the article opinions. Would make it easier to scan what’s worth reading. Also, might give a sense of how many readers there are.
Does anyone else ever ponder if we aren’t compromising our ability to be self sufficient over the long haul, how many generations would it take to lose our knowledge base, should we ever find it necessary or desireable to reclaim the manufacture of our durable/consumable goods.I’m thinking a serious deficiency will exist after just one generation.
Kansas,
Thank you for again proving that you ARE a troll, at 6:31 PM.
‘1934 and all that’http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/08/1934-and-all-that/
“Sum total of this change? A couple of hundredths of degrees in the US rankings and no change in anything that could be considered climatically important (specifically long term trends).”
Again cosmos,
You are missing the point. The Alarmist contention was that there was a warming trend not seen before.
With the corrected data, this warming trend statement has been proven to be false.
Wiggle it all you want, no one is going to buy it anymore.
Kansas,
Thank you for again proving that you ARE a troll.
Or maybe you REALLY can’t understand that the U.S. does not = “Global”?http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.A2_lrg.gif
Maybe you can’t understand that 1998 and 1934 were, and still are virtual ties?
Give it up cosmos. You’re side has lost and no one will listen to your rants anymore.
So Kansas REALLY can’t understand that the U.S. does not = “Global”?http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.A2_lrg.gif
That’s pathetic.
Give it up cosmos. You’re side has lost and no one will listen to your rants anymore.
Posted by: Kansas | August 10, 2007 at 09:34 PM
Kansas — if it is a virtual tie between 1934 and 1998, then it looks to me — on plain paper — Your information has met that unknown barrier known as the rock and the hard place —
cosmos refuses to acknowledge all his temperature trend increases are now down the tube.
Evidently Chas, you fail to see it too.
As I pointed out before cosmos, the GISS algorithm was copied for use into other systems into the world.
The whole lot of temperature data is now suspect.
chas,
More significantly, the minor corrections ONLY apply to U.S. stations.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/“…except that the USHCN station records up to 1999 were replaced by a version of USHCN data with further corrections after an adjustment computed by comparing the common 1990-1999 period of the two data sets. (We wish to thank Stephen McIntyre for bringing to our attention that such an adjustment is necessary to prevent creating an artificial jump in year 2000.)”
USHCN = United States Historical Climatology Network
Also from that same website -
“Our analysis includes results for a global temperature index as described by Hansen ”
Oops, global means World cosmos.
I remember seeing on TV about those temperature recording stations. More than half so far, were out of compliance of accurate temperature readings.
But it’s ok! Cosmos isn’t a scientist. He’s a man-made global warming scare monger religious Pansie that couldn’t be green if he tried.
Sorry Cosmos. This has been done before. Acid Rain, Killer Bees, Red #40, Ozone hole, Y2K, SARS, Bird Flu, Global Warming, Massive Hurricane seasons, and on and on.
It’s not that it doesn’t exist. It’s just it will not end us or become such a big problem.
After Global Warming stops being a fad, it will be something else, and people like Cosmos will switch teams. Just the way it is.
http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=6814820
Kansas,
I see that you’re STILL trolling.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/“Our analysis includes results for a global temperature index as described by Hansen et al. (1996).The temperature index is formed by combining the meteorological station measurements over land with sea surface temperatures obtained primarily from satellite measurements, the HadISST data.”
The “index” does NOT = the “meteorological station measurements over land”.
And the “measurements” OUTSIDE of the contiguous 48 U.S. states are NOT provided by USHCN.
“Sorry Cosmos. This has been done before. Acid Rain, Killer Bees, Red #40, Ozone hole, Y2K, SARS, Bird Flu, Global Warming, Massive Hurricane seasons, and on and on.”
This from Joe Williams who idiopathically defines himself as a “liberal”. His understanding of words and concepts are quite interesting to say the least.
What is the problem cosmos? You cannot discuss issues with me without calling me a troll? Are you that immature and childish?
The statements you just wrote cosmos say nothing to support your cause. It’s just more emetics from a hyperlink you found.
As Joe said, you are not a scientist cosmos, stop pretending to be one and spewing your false knowledge.
Oh, and you ARE a scientist, Kansas, so we should believe YOU when you tell us Cosmos isnt??? Tha is WAY too funny!!!
Well Steven! You obviously do not know what a liberal is; do you?
Won’t you be so kind as to tell this fine bunch who you would describe as a liberal?
Are you a scientist Chas? So we should believe you on telling me what is or isn’t?
Not very tasteful is it Chas when the statement is directed at you?
I KNOW I am not a scientist… I dont even pretent to be… But YOU… YOU tell everybody that Cosmos isnt a scientist… How would you know??? You arent a scientist!! He sure can come up with all kinds of links, that make yours look like kindergarten!! LOL
And you sure dont mind tasteless when you post repeatedly that Cosmos is a high school drop out, and all kinds of other things, that, obviously, you have no way of knowing…. And you call me tasteless??? Damn bi-polar disorder is a mess!!
cosmos just points to hyperlinks and regurgitates what the links state.
He never offers an analysis independent of what the links he supports have to say.
It’s just a rote exercise in “trust me” this link says so pseudo-scientific rhetoric.
LOL (shakes head) :)
Karaoke Singer Attacked By Woman Who Didn’t Like His Act
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292948,00.html
“SEATTLE — A woman attacked a singer belting out Coldplay on Thursday night, telling him he “sucked” before she pushed and punched him to get him to stop singing, bar staff said.
The man was singing “Yellow” when it happened.
“It took three or four of us to hold her down,” bartender Robert Willmette said.
When she was escorted outside, the 21-year-old woman “went crazy,” Willmette said, throwing punches at him and others, including an off-duty police officer.
Patrol officers and detectives then arrived at the neighborhood bar and blocked off the street, which inflamed the woman’s rage even more, a police report said. Before police could handcuff the woman, she headbutted the off-duty officer at least twice.
The off-duty officer was treated for cuts, scrapes and bruises.
After treatment for injuries, the woman was booked into the King County jail for investigation of assault. She was also held on a warrant issued for a previous theft charge.
According to bartender notes, she had only a single shot of Jagermeister.”
Mental Illness?
Joe I’ve been telling you for a long time now, you’re NOT a liberal.
P-mom, I can think of a few who might say demonic possession… LOL
Joe?? Liberal?? Nonsense… ROFL
Well, I can see Kansas is not a scientist… He just plays one on the Blog… LOLOL
I’m am a Liberal.
P-mom! You’re not a liberal. You’re a socialist leftist, which aren’t liberals.
“Liberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that advocate individual liberty. Liberalism has its roots in the Western Age of Enlightenment.
Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. A liberal society is characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy, free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected. In the 21st century, this usually means liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.”
What part of Liberalism do you leftist don’t understand?
Well, time to head off for work tomorrow… Be back next week… maybe… You all be good now… or at least be careful… good nite, good luck, and god bless… who/whatever you conceive of God to be!!
Ummmm Joe?? That sounds a whole lot like a definition of Libertarian… not Liberal…
And our conservatives of today are anything but conservers… in fact, MANY are ANTI-consevationist in their thinking..
Never said or claim I was a conservative. Just because I oppose leftist Democrats, doesn’t make me a conservative.
This is where I got the definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal
Now, just for grins, go check out the definition of Libertarian… BTW, Wikipedia isnt the best known source for definitions…
I know! I know! I knew you would say that. “Wikipedia isn’t the best source.” blah, blah, blah.
But if you go to Libertarianism on the Wikipedia, it’s a much different description.
I am, however, quite libertarian also. Not a complete die hard, but lean that way.
Kansas,
Why don’t YOU provide a scientific, “independent analysis” that explains how a few 0.01 degrees C. of MINOR corrections to ONLY the contiguous 48 U.S. states, causes LARGE changes the GLOBAL warming trend here?
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.A2_lrg.gif
Answer: Because it does NOT, so you CANNOT!
So you instead make personal attacks on me.
That IS troll behavior. If you don’t like being called a troll, don’t post like one.
http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1868
Unfortunately, Cosmos, that is what he seems to do best!! When he cant back up what he says, he attacks those who can!!
I’m outta here… got a long hot drive tomorrow!! Bye all!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×1542765
See the arctic melting before your very eyes.
Chas,
Yeah… Kansas reminds me of JM, who kept INSISTING that a international CO2 recalibration of ONLY 0.16 ppm was VERY significant — when humans have caused CO2 to rise from about 280 ppm to 380 ppm.
Joe Williams,
Your link = “Access forbidden”
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2007/08/global_warming_totally_disprov.php
“1998 and 1934 went from being in a virtual tie, to being in a virtual tie. This is not a significant change.
…Oh, and I didn’t link to Climate Audit, because It’s gone down because of all the traffic from Limbaugh and the like. The paranoids there reckon it’s a DOS attack from the eevil warmers.”
Also good,http://n3xus6.blogspot.com/2007/08/truth-shall-set-you-free.html
Good day!J R
Posted September 16, 2007 at 5:17 pm | Permalink
Take a look an excellent topic about [url=
And I missed the whole Petraeus hoo haw.
It’s probably been posted. But it bears repeating.
Gen. PupPetreus has a superior. He is coming out with his own Iraq assessment. THAT is what I want to see. Seeing as how Admiral Fallon has called Petraeus a syncophant and an ass sucking chickens&*(.
Is such a man REALLY who we want reporting and recommending policy to a dogmatic idiot executive like bush?
cosmos’s new kick, wants me to go out and do my own research on Global Warming and then chides me because I haven’t done it.
These words by cosmos are the words of a desperate man, seeking attention and the obvious lack of science in his background.
“I believe the climate is warming, but due to natural causes.”
Posted by: the TROLL Kansas
So Kansas… just post the links to your credible, peer-reviewed “science papers and journals” that PROVE your belief that “climate is warming, but due to natural causes”.
The troll Kansas CANNOT, because there aren’t any…
So instead, the troll Kansas makes false personal attacks at me.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/09/open-thread-915.html#comment-82917673
Yeah cosmos, the earth never warmed or cooled for all those millions of years before a SUV appeared on the planet.
Go sell your GORACLE “fluff berries” somewhere else, no one is buying it.
Gee cosmos, I guess the troll is like the Pope. If he believes something tnen it is the Word of God.
What an ego.
Troll Kansas, the issue is NOT past natural climate changes.
It’s the current one, caused mostly by human-added greenhouse gases, and land use changes.
But thank you for again admitting that you have no credible science proving that humans are not responsible.
You only have stupid deniers talking points, and false personal attacks.
???,
The troll Kansas is a huge hypocrite.
He nitpicks any small flaws, unknowns in models, minor data errors, etc, made by very credible climate scientists — and claims it proves that all of their work is invalid.
And he also insists that any junk science(sic) that supports his incorrect opinion is 100% valid.