The local anti-gaming group, flush with victory in Tuesday’s vote, is now setting its sights on Topeka and lawmakers who approved gaming. “Every Democrat or Republican who voted for it is going to be vulnerable,” Kahrs told The Eagle’s Mark McCormick. “Both parties are going to lose incumbents over this issue.”
I’m not convinced. The anti-gaming coalition won’t hold together in the wake of this vote, which was about Wichita’s future. The concerned business leaders and most voters got what they wanted: no casino here. Most aren’t going to be interested in a punitive crusade — that really will be just about social conservatives pushing their moral agenda.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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119 Comments
Gosh! Who’d a thunk a bunch of ignorant Bible-thumping hicks could run such a well-organized campaign and turn out voters so effectively!
Posted by: parkay
operation rescue is very well organized. they come in and over hype the facts to scare the easily led. it’s happened for years in the abortion battle.
every group needs a hot button issue to recruit members and raise donations. the new issue to use to control other people is gambling.
it helps turn out when one side is told to vote no no or go to hell forever.
i don’t think too many yes voters care if they lost. it’s a very short drive to sumner county.
most yes voters don’t want to visit a wichita casino and have to listen to the operation rescue and fred phelps style of protesters yelling ugly slogans at them.
if all the pro casino and all the sinners left town how would the churches raise money?
they love a good issue to protest about.
hey, their kids get some “fresh” air next to kellogg, and the sunshine on a 105 degree day really makes their 2 year old skin glow.
It would be like going to the movies and having to walk through a picket line with the christians yelling, “god kills fags and movie goers.”
Part of this town lives so far in the past it would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
Wanna bet operation rescue would enjoy living in Iraq. They could car bomb an abortion clinic and no one would care. If someone opened a liquor store down the street they could burn it down at night.
Oh wait, that’s already being done in L. A. by radical Islamic Fundamentalists.
Maybe operation rescue has finally met it’s match.
Mark Kahrs is correct when he says, “EVERY DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN LEGISLATOR WHO VOTED FOR IT (GAMBLING) IS GOING TO BE VULNERABLE” … IN FUTURE ELECTIONS.
And this includes our county commissioners, DAVE UNRUH, TOM WINTERS AND TIM NORTON. Actually in a perfect world, these pro-gambling commissioners should voluntarily resign to acknowledge they are out of step with the majority of Sedgwick County voters.
But I suspect they love their $65,000 per year salaries plus all the extra perks and delicious snacks at their podium paid for by taxpayers … too much to do this.
Since they are completely out of tune with the voters, lame ducks so to speak … DAVE, TIM AND TOM should voluntarily marginalize themselves during the remainder of their current political terms.
I have never in my life set foot in a casino. I have never beat a path to the dog track. When I go to bars, I drink diet Pepsi neat. I have never had an abortion. I have never sought the services of entrepreneurs in the sex trade. These things just don’t appeal to me, so I choose not to do them. But it royally gripes my ass when a bunch of bible-thumpers take it upon themselves to deny me, and everybody but themselves, the opportunity to make such choices for ourselves. They seem to feel that they and they alone are sufficiently qualified to make our choices for us. What an insult!
You may be right about the agenda Randy Scholfied, but remember it’s the ’squeaky wheel’ that gets the grease not the ‘broken wheel.’
Jed, I submit that there were more than “bible-thumpers” that supported the “NO-NO” vote.
If you read the Eagle Jed, the “NO-NO” voters consisted of business owners big and small, the Chamber of Commerce and regular citizens who were wary of this kind of influence in Wichita.
I submit to those complaining about the defeat are getting a wakeup call on the mindset of Sedgwick County. It is not a mindset of “Bible-Thumping Ultra-Conservatives,” but of solid citizens who know their local issues and have their fingers directly on the pulse of Wichita.
These “NO NO” voters discussed, researched and generally determined by reason that the Casino nor Racino didn’t fit into Sedgwick County’s future.
The mistake that the “YES YES” side made is that they relied on the ever so tiresome “it’s my right” slogan campaign along with “their side tells lies” without providing any substantial proof.
Wichita people are more sophisticated than what the “Bleeding Press” wants every one to believe that the “bumper sticker” slogans are self-evident - when they are not.
I would bet (pardon the pun) that a substantial percentage of the “NO NO” voters have no objections of flying to Las Vegas or driving to a Native American Casino to relieve themselves of some funds.
But, this same group of “NO NO” people are planners. They will plan for those trips and not go off on some half-baked conception of “I’m gonna get rich tonight” scenario.
The “Bible-Thumping-squeaky wheels” may have claimed the victory as theirs, but as discussed it was much more than that.
The “Bible Thumpers” were effective in the fact that brought everyone’s attention to the issue and the public at large became educated on the issues.
I do find it ironic that an industry such as Gambling makes it profit on the loss of others and that the sour graped Mr. Ruffin takes his toys and goes home when his faltering track loses money because no one wants to squander money on his dog track wheel of fortune.
Perhaps the gambling consortium should realize that ‘losing money’ regardless of origin or cause was recognized by the informed public as being bad for the locality called Wichita and its people.
No use in anybody getting their nose bent out of shape. Wichita isn’t known as a “fun” place anyway.
Everybody should just spend all their time drinking, praying, and making babies. That should be enough.(Sarcasm off)
nice use of the word “crusade” Randy… you really know how to get the Christian haters riled up! I’d be willing to BET that if ONLY Christians voted “NO”, that the outcome would have been different. It was “Citizens” that voted it down.. not just Christians.
The RR will try anything to further their sgenda for “Christionizing” America. They won’t be satisfied until there’s a burning bush on every corner and a deacon in every bed.
The earth is still flat, and man has only roamed the earth for a couple of centuries. . . pigs also fly and Bush is the greatest president ever. Must be nice to live in lala land.
NO, the Bible thumpers were just a pawn to big business interests who do not want competetive wage industries in Wichita!
Contrary to the lies told here, Casino’s are not minimum wage jobs. They are jobs that pay enough to support families.
“Big Business” used these idiot blind sheep, and the pastors who lead them are corrupt power hungry sell outs!
The religious zealot, anti-gaming group will be taking it a step too far if they assume that voters have a complaint against politicians. This campaign most likely turned because a fair sum of voters decided a casino was not a wise business decision for the city. Will it work in a neighboring county? That’s up to them. They have a decision to make.
Kahrs would do well to remember how his conservative group got canned in the first place: by jamming their restrictive point-of-view down everyone else’s throat. If that group had their way, they’d rig the system so no one else could ever vote on anything but them.
When it comes to Kahrs, it’s no surprise.
I told you people that if the “No” people win, they will be bolstered to go forward with a wide range of agendas.
Going after the politicians who supported or kept quite on Casinos is just one of many things that Kahrs and Co. are going to do.
The Red Elephant is loose now.
Just bluster from someone who won an election. It is going nowhere. The election was about quality of life in the community, not social agenda. As a conservative who happens to be religious, I resent trying to push this further than our votes intended.
Forget it Mr. Kahrs, it has no legs.
Let them try Joe!; and they will see the “coalition” fly apart. Your attempts at guilt by association failed in the campaign; it is no more valid today.
All I did was warn people that it’s about the “Leaders” who are running the campaign to watch out for.
I have said, if it was somebody else besides Mark Kahrs and Donna Lippolt, the “No” Campaign would have more legitimacy. But since they were the ones running the campaign, I warned everybody that this is a power agenda they are doing. One of just many of their campaigns to take charge of our community.
I was right. They won and now want to continue their agenda. It’s no surprise.
You vote with dogs, you can catch fleas.
“You vote with dogs, you can catch fleas.”
Yea, like the Arena crowd and Ruffin on the casino side? Joe!; you seem to ignore the role of Chandler, Meyers, and others. THEY, not Kahrs, made the difference. Along with the incredible arrogance and incompetance of many on the “Vote YeaYeaRahRah!” side.
Both sides in this thing carried a lot of baggage; it’s just that your side carried a lot more.
“I told you people that if the “Vote Yea!” people win, they will be bolstered to go forward with a wide range of agendas.” Unfortunately for them, 2/3 of the population are now against “Vote Yea!” and that hurt their campaign this time around.
Joe! How did you turn 70% into less than 45%? And why didn’t you see it coming?
Hey, Kahrs is just what the people in Wichita need. Someone to tell them what to do and what to think. The weak, and small minded really do need leadership. Nanny Town.
The “No” campaign did one hell of a job. That’s what happen.
The arena crowd and the pro-casino crowd are separate.
Meyers, Chandler and many other business leaders supported the arena. So your assumption about the Vote Yea is wrong.
The NoNoRahRah side did a good job and I congratulate them. Now they want to continue their success.
Too bad the losers can’t recognize that the pro-casino legislators and governor are responsible. They cobbled together and passed a vague, poorly crafted bill with horrible terms. What business does the state have owning a casino? Why should Kansas accept half of what other states take in? Lukewarm gamblers voted against it because they saw it for the loser it was.
Why weren’t the Sedgwick County, pro- politicians out front promoting the wealth their masterpiece was going to generate?
Remember the picture of Raj Goyle smiling like a cheshire cat after he helped pass this albatros?
Too bad the paper doesn’t justapose his picture from Tuesday night pro-casino watch party. :-((
Who was it the other day who was in denial about the antichoice people running this campaign.
The article in the WE today clearly states that the folks who ran the campaign came from Operation Rescue.
I think there is a reason you town is known for harboring the Operation Rescue types.
you do.
Oh fabulous, the RR think since they got a 57% win that it’s an indication that all of Wichita decided to become bible thumpers. Well it is interesting that so many in the initial polls of the city had more people for the casino than against. Did they just finally get right with God?
No, I think the whole issue was not about God but rather the people were persuaded to believe that there were legitimate FISCAL reasons for not having the casino here. I think those negatives were bogus and far overblown.
Anytime the fundies get a win, even by a small margin, they always seem to think that means everyone is on their side for every issue.
We already know conservatives vote in larger numbers than do middle ground persons who just don’t care too much about politics.
I agree roscoe. The whining of the YeaYeaRahRah crowd reminds me of a twerpy little ADA I met years ago. I was jury foreman and, when we acquitted one of the defendants on all charges and another on the most serious charge he had the unmitigated gall to tell me that WE (the jury) blew it. I let him have it with both barrels. I closed with “You tell your boss (the DA) if he would learn to try a case he might just WIN one once in a while!”
This was Los Angeles - explains a lot abot th OJ Simpson fiasco.
ksfg - you are correct about OR’s role; I noted that as just one of the reasons the casino would fail. However, the biggest reason was that the YeaYeaRahRah crowd simply LOST.
Why are you whiners still crying about this loss? You should be spending your time packing your bags and getting out of Wichita. It’s obvious you feel like you can’t live here among the “bible thumpers” who “make your choices” for you.
The issue is dead. Move on. Get over it. Do you act like a whiny 5 year old every time you don’t get your way? Next time, get more votes.
Here is my question, how many of those no signs were illegally placed on public property?
I can damn well guarantee you that if that IDIOT Kohrs takes this higher in the State, I will also be at the State in Support of people’s rights. We have 3 other counties in this State who wish to have a Casino. It is none of his damn business what other counties do. If he doesn’t like it, he can move to Arkansas or the Artic, I don’t give a damn where. Just get him the hell out of Wichita and Kansas. Kansas can NOT survive on farming, aircraft and schools alone. We have to have something else and he can just go jump off it. We are already a laughing stock.
I don’t know how we ever survived as long as we did in this state without gambling.
I mean, with all the doomsday proclamations about how us “Bible thumpers” are going to ruin this town because we don’t support gambling even had a shred of truth then we shouldn’t have made it this far…
What a crock.
Gambling or the lack thereof is hardly the end all to our economy.
Very true Nathan.Wichita is not losing anything it already had by not having a casino. We have been alright thus far, I don’t think anything will change now.
Has everyone forgotten that a good percentage of the no supporters were the owners of the local Bingo Parlors and the organizations that support them. They don’t want the low income bingo addicts to gamble their money away anywhere else. These players have limited funds to support their habits and would have taken the chance at winning big rather than the chance at winning part of the $1,200.00 limit on a bingo session payouts. The owners of these gambling establishments or in hog heaven. To funny.
I think the news media should investigate who funded their ads. I bet we would find out-of-state casino’s are behind it trying to keep their business. The vote “no” posers don’t want it here but accept money from the very people they want to keep out… but of course the media won’t check into it because they are on the “no” side trying to cover up all the lies.
There’s a whole number of things wrong with Kahr’s assertion.
One: Many of the legislators who voted for the casino bill voted against the marriage ban. They’re still in office.
Two: Terry Fox and his pals, Joe Wright and Jerry Johnston, made the same hubris-based claims as Kahrs. Where are Fox, Wright and Johnston now?
Three: I’ll agree with Ben’s analysis yesterday: _Everyone_ on the NO side turned out. Not so many on the YES side. Next year’s elections will probably see turnout in the upper 80’s, if past presidential years are any indication. That means the YES voters will be coming out, too, and they won’t be happy about not having a casino in Wichita.
Four: The incumbents who took money from Potowatomi Nation and Harrah’s, but voted NO on the casino bill, still have that record hanging over them. It was effective in last year’s campaigns, and if you think it won’t be used again, you’re wrong.
Five: The gay community in Kansas got our political asses kicked in the 2005 marriage ban, 69% to 31%. This time around, the same voting block only managed to pull 56%. They’re slipping.
Six: All this talk about the brilliant campaign run by Operation Rescue is laughable. Two years in a row, Operation Rescue ran a candidate against State Rep Judy Loganbill. In 2004, Jan Beemer came within 180 votes of beating Loganbill. In 2006, the margin was more like 800 votes, with a final percentage of 57% to 38% (a Libertarian candidate pulled the remainder). The former Speaker of the Kansas House once called Loganbill “the most liberal state representative” in office. We see how well that worked for Operation Rescue…
The radical “conservatives” can wallow in their own hubris all they want. I encourage them to. There aren’t going to be that many more opportunities for them.
thom - bet they aren’t. But, we will know by the end of the year.
I agree that it should be disclosed earlier. Just like all the special interests on the YES sde.
Roscoe–
Raj Goyle never came out in support of casinos.
But he was convinced that allowing the voters to decide was a good thing. He responded to his constituents who wanted a vote on the issue.
They got their vote.
The will of the majority prevailed.
Unlike Bonnie Huy, Raj followed through on what he promised–allowing a vote.
No investigation needed. The reporting will occur four months AFTER the election.
And who defeated the bill that would have changed that? I think governor leadership AND the republican legislators had a hand in defeating that “instant” reporting bill regarding ethics.
Any wonder why?
Gosh, you must be talking about Susan “I own bingo parlours but you cant vote on casinos” Wagle?
Heheheheh. I really hope the repukes run her for governor….
Goodness, what got all of the pro-abortion without any exceptions, believe every Christian who opposes gay marriage agrees with Fred Phelps positions and tactics, and place conservative Christian’s into the same catagories of Hitler,Islamic Radical Taliban Terrorists, into a rage? Oh, I know, you lost the Yes vote for slots at the dogtrack, and a Casino!
According to Ruffin, the dogtrack has been losing money. And he’s been writing a check for $200,000.00 each month to keep it afloat. The who, what,& where question on the Casino was open ended! For Governor Sebelius and Rep. Goyle and others,to have supported and pushed thru the legislature, a poorly written bill in order to repay special interest gambling contributors is where the focus should be! Mr. Kahrs has every RIGHT as a citizen and voter to ask those questions!
Hey “Not impressed:”
Bonnie Huy _repeatedly_ took maxed-out campaign donations from Harrah’s and Potowatomi Nation over the years. Why? So she would continue to vote NO on a casino bill, to protect their interests in Topeka and Kansas City.
If you want to talk about someone owned by gambling special interests, that’s the place you need to start.
It is now time to force the city and county to ban all bingo games. Wanna see a riot of the RRs? It would make Watts look like a picnic. Watch the susie squirm.
I mean, after all, bingo IS gambling, whether it’s for Christ or a new car. Anyone else see the hypocrisy? If the state can bust into your house for hosting a friendly game of Texas hold-em, they should be able to bust the corner church for bingo. O . . . excuse me, we’re talking HOLY rollers here, aint we?
Bingo parlors in Kansas are interesting. The owners don’t get to operate the games; they provide the building and they get to sell snacks and non-alcoholic beverages to the patrons. The game operators are registered charities (501c3’s and churches). The “take” is split between the charity and the hall owner. Any bingo parlor will have several charities running games, with different organizations having their weekly “night.” They pull in quite a bit of money…
Indeed, Tom; “interesting” is a good way to describe it. The statutory scheme which allows this is “remarkable”, to use another word which describes it, but inadequately. Truly evidence of the political compromises involved.
I don;t think Bingo is gambling at all. Ever win at playing BIngo? Hell no!
If I gamgle, there is at least SOME expectation of winning!
hAha
you folks would blame all Christians if Wichita fell into a sink-hole and disappeared! not every Christian is exactly like the next, and not every one agrees with what the next one does!
For example… there is no way you will ever catch my 501(c)(3) receiving money from gambling… not even Bingo. It’s just not right, not even for charities.
No Kansassam
you have it wrong. All Christians are hatefilled control freaks who don;t want anybody to do anything they say they don;t do, but actually do behind closed doors. They hate everything, and everyone. I learned that here.
For all the flaws the casino bill had what would have been the fury if Sed. Co. had not got to vote on it?
I think the legislators would be in more hot water if they had not allowed this debate and vote to happen.
Everyone knows Mr. Kahrs political ambitions are huge. He needs a lot of attention and thinks this is his ticket to fame.
Tom, if as you posted, liberal Democrats like Loganbill,& Goyle can do NO WRONG. And gay marriage is an important issue to you and liberal Democrat voters, as you indicated in the defeat of Beemer by Loganbill. Then why is Governor Sebelius, Jim Ward, who’s in House leadership, Raj Goyle, and Loganbill, not out front with legisative attempts on behalf of Gay rights??
Instead, Sebelius and the others;supported and signed into law; as a pay back to Ruffin and other special interest gambling donors. A poorly written, late night debated bill, of which I believe the Eagle reported was not the final completed draft legislators
had before them during the debate. Why? So a gambling bill, ANY gambling bill would get passed the legislative session following Sebelius’and others re-elections.
“you have it wrong. All Christians are hatefilled control freaks who don;t want anybody to do anything they say they don;t do, but actually do behind closed doors. They hate everything, and everyone. I learned that here.”
So did I.
“Then why is Governor Sebelius, Jim Ward, who’s in House leadership, Raj Goyle, and Loganbill, not out front with legisative attempts on behalf of Gay rights??”
Uh oh. Someone ELSE brought up the gay again.
And, btw, Judy Loganbill’s support of equality for all is unquestioned. I dont know Raj Goyle.
But the sebelius and jim ward question is a good one. Why ARENT they walking their “talk”? (Whisper is a better word.)
Maybe because jim ward is in rehab with mark foley? (JOKE)
And sebelius is too busy helping big ag and big biz rape the kansas water supply and build the disaster at holcomb?
just wondering….
“Not impressed,”
Where did I say those people “do no wrong?” Paste that in for me, will ya?
And your whining about how the gambling bill was passed shows how little you understand the legislative process. The current gaming bill was introduced very early in the session, and it made the rounds in committees _repeatedly._ The final step was a conference committee, which happens to almost every bill there. And the “late night” part was because the REPUBLICAN OPPONENTS of the bill filibustered by keeping the Legislature in session, but not keeping enough people on the floor for a quorum.
And it was Jim Barnett who made the final motion to PASS the gaming bill in the Senate. Remember him? Mr. Self-Righteous “I’m Gonna Be Governor” Barnett?
the only hate I feel around here is from you folks. You are only harming yourselves. My conscience is clear, and it really doesn’t matter that you are so hateful that it has made you blind.
I will still do what is right.. I don’t need your approval.
“All Christians are hatefilled control freaks who don;t want anybody to do anything they say they don;t do, but actually do behind closed doors. They hate everything, and everyone. I learned that here.
Posted by: littlejohn | August 09, 2007 at 10:57 AM ”
I can instantly prove this false:
I am a Christian.
Amazing all of the spin posters on Raj Goyles’ behalf!! He didn’t come out in support of Casino’s, only the right of the people to vote! Of course he is a lawyer, and not just a reg. lawyer like Kahrs, no, an educated in the East, formal ACLU lawyer. And a democrat to boot. Meaning, he was included in the Governor’s circle along with Jim Ward on getting the poorly drafted bill passed thru the House of Representatives!
Nothing is allowed to tarnish Goyle, because state Dem Party (which received from Ruffin alone, hundreds of thousands of dollars, to help elect Sebelius and candidates like Goyle)intends to run him for Congress; since Jim Ward cost himself that chance with his recent drunk driving arrest.
The best spin, that former legislator Bonnie Huy took campaign donations from the Indian Tribes so she could vote no. I think I have it right, Goyle supports and votes for a poorly written bill the Dem. Governor wanted passed. Huy when in office voted no to such nonsense!
Better call that infamous waaaaaambulance for some here . . .
The voters of Sedgwick county, after hearing the arguments of both sides, and in a valid election, decided that they did not want a casino in Sedgwick county. That was their right to decide, after all, that was what the vote was about.
Why they decided what they did is irrelevent, whether for religious reasons, or job reasons, or economic reasons, or just because they didn’t want it in their backyard.
You wanted a vote. You got it. You lost, and it wan’t very close. Stop whining and get over it.
Bingo?The lottery?Housing market speculation?The stock market?
This is all gambling. Why did y’all stop at casinos? Close the bingo parlors. End the lottery. Ban home purchases unless the purchaser contracts to live there. Ban stock trading.
Don’t half ass it folks. In for a penny, in for a pound.
hell, Sol, by that standard, living is a gamble; we could all step in front of a bus tomorrow.
Overstate your case much?
“Not impressed,”
Bonnie Huy’s campaign contributors are a matter of public record. I suggest you go to accesskansas.org/ethics and go back through the past several years of her reports, and tell me how many thousands came from Potowatomi and Harrah’s. Her “no” vote was bought and paid for years ago.
I don’t see why you keep trying to pin the gaming bill on the Democratic Party. Nothing moves in the Legislature - NOTHING - without the Republican majorities saying so. They aren’t small majorities, either. It’s 78-47 in the House, and 30-10 in the Senate (that’s a veto-proof majority, by the way).
The far-right controls the Speaker’s selection, the Majority Leader, the Majority Whip. They in turn control all the committee assignments, including who chairs and vice chairs the standing committees, and the conference committees.
If you have a beef with the Legislature, I suggest you take it up with the Republicans that run the place.
GMC,
I’m seeing more whining coming from the NO side than the YES side. Hubris AND whining, both at once.
Amazing. I love the smell of radical “conservative” fear. It’s almost like an aphrodisiac.
“Amazing. I love the smell of radical “conservative” fear. It’s almost like an aphrodisiac.”
??????????????????????????????
Well, forgive us if some of us think your voters just shot themselves in the foot in a big time way.
Only time will tell. We’ll see.
Some of us also cant resist pointing out the hubris, as Tom said. What THAT will lead to, only time will tell.
I just remember terry and joe doing the same church lady vitory dance and saying “the jet engines are warming up and we’ll see you in Topeka”.
Different players, same song and verse.
Like I said, the consequences of this vote will be interesting to observe, and only time will tell.
I guess if you call it whining, knock yerself out.
Tom, are you a Dem. state Representative? Or a lobbyist?
If you are, don’t assume the masses are unable to understand and follow the legistative process! It does take continued dedication to follow the legislative process. Where would the people be without all those special interest lobbyists and newspaper editors?
Another interesting observation?
The no arena folks, some of whom have clearly stated here that this was a related vote for lack of location, state or county sponsored reasons, etc. (paraphrase)
The arena is still being built. With all its associated problems. This changes nothing.
But for those casting that kind of vote, I hope it made you feel better…
“you have it wrong. All Christians are hatefilled control freaks who don;t want anybody to do anything they say they don;t do, but actually do behind closed doors. They hate everything, and everyone. I learned that here.So did I.Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | August 09, 2007 at 11:03 AM ”
farmgrrl…
you are famous for bone digs…. I CHALLENGE you to go back as far as you like in the WE blog and find an example of me telling you what to do, or personally attacking you in any way. It never happened.. but I won’t be expecting a retraction.
not impressed, you are jumping the shark.
Some people follow the legislative process, and if they do, they’ll know indeed that republicans control the entire process. So whatever comes out of Topeka MUST have their majority stamp of approval.
Other people follow the money. As in, those whose “no” vote in the legislature was bought and paid for by gambling interests wanting to squash competition.
Then came your local ruling class who didnt want THEIR cut of the pie, be it business or collection plate, so the BEST thing to do is kill it in ints sleep.
Yep. We not only know how to follow the legislative process, we know how to follow the money.
Those December reports are sure gonna be interesting. As will the lack of “early reporting” bills in Topeka this session to fix this reporting loophole. I mean, it is an election year and all…
Tom:
I’m fairly certain this vote didn’t break on the usual “conservative/liberal” lines at all. A number of very liberal folks on these very boards who indicated they would vote no, for example. So assigning the “blame” for the loss to the ever-convenient “christian right” is, I suspect, so much blather.
Whenever a scapegoat is needed, of course, that one is convenient . . .
Will this coalition go beyond Sedgwick County? Some will try, but I suspect with very little success. This was a local vote, for local issues. Personally, I think if Kansas wanted casino gambling, the current law permitting same was very badly done; Kansas gave away too much to the developers. The vote, I suspect was not so much against casino gambling as it was against THIS rather vague and unknown proposal. Voters don’t like being sold a pig in a poke, and after the arena experience, I suspect that’s what they thought they were getting.
Sam, I DO NOT recall you EVER telling me what to do.
Is that clear enough for you?
In case you didnt read far enough up, I was quoting lj who said that is what HE learned here. I agreed.
I just love how the christians here howl that “they are some of the good ones” when no one suggested otherwise.
I know, you cant run far enough away from some other christians. I dont blame you. And good for you for doing so.
But you ALL call yourselves christians and then compete with each other to distinguish yourselves as different.
Sorry. There are always individual exceptions. That does not excuse the majority.
Hey-How about an actual change in the state Constitution? TO allow casino gambling? Of course, it probably would go down in defeat, but it would be worth a try!
GMC,
I’m not assigning “the blame” to the radical “conservatives.” They’re busy taking _credit._ And taking it waaaay too soon, IMO.
Which is exactly why all of my posts have been on the theme of “you all better not start counting those political chickens.”
(Not you specifically, of course. You, GMC, I respect and even agree with more often than you may realize.)
The stupidity of that argument is apparent kfg. kansassam defines himself by his faith. You define yourself by your sexuality.
I know that because you never shut up about it. So, are there good lesbians and bad lesbians? Which are you? Are the majority of lesbians good or bad?
Point taken, and touche, Tom.
There will be casino gambling in Kansas, just not in your county.
I think that was another falsehood bought by some folks. Not you lj, but others.
I think PART of the failure of the yes campaign was that they forgot the power of lies, damn lies and statistics. Instead they put their faith in the voters that they would see the truth. Wrong. You gotta counter that stuff quickly, accurately, and forcefully.
Unfortunately, they made the same mistate Trego county did with Hays and Russell going to Cedar Bluff for their water. The idea was so patently ridiculous on its face, no one but my board and I acted quickly enough to keep the steam roller from gaining speed.
By the time the sheeple woke up here, it was too late. Governor leadership, joe harkins, mike hayden, john bird, john montgomery and glenn staab were already at the controls and battering the damn.
I think if the yes campaign there had countered the half truths and fears early and quickly, it would have helped.
You know the saying, “if you are explaining, you are losing” and the longer the campaign goes on the more that is true.
“I know that because you never shut up about it. So, are there good lesbians and bad lesbians? Which are you? Are the majority of lesbians good or bad?”
Outie, I already gave my opinion about christians. Why dont YOU answer the question and tell us how YOU really feel about lesbians?
farmgrrl..lj’s statement was still inaccurate.. I know very few cases that are that extreme.
Kansassam-
You are correct. My bad. It was sarcasm offered to some of the regulars here, and not noted as such. My bad and I apolgize
“I know very few cases that are that extreme.”
Sam, I am sure that is your experience.
My experience has been very different.
And if you want to count bloggers here, I think it runs about 50-50.
But the haters for jesus are loud enough to make it seem more like 80-20. Sorry, but that is my opinion based on my experience.
Of course you are all free to disagree based on your experience. But dont devalue mine.
lj…
thanks for clearing that up.
farmgrrl..
all experience is valuable and we can learn from each other. Believe me, I do listen to your experiences and I look at my attitudes and see how they relate.
So what is the percentage of lesbians who are haters on this blog?
Just wondering.
Next, they’ll think they can bring back creationism! Give em an inch!
Legislators that voted for the bill should be voted out of office. It is unconstitutional for the state to have casino gambling. If we want casino gambling, the voters should vote on a constitutional amendment.
It is absurd that the state will own a casino. This bill was insane.
LittleJohn:
There was an attempt to change the constitution when the casino bill was debated on the House floor.
It lost.
If somebody should be blamed for the election you should look to your local city and county elected leaders.
They could have stepped up and assured the voters that they would work to see to it that the casino would not be located wihtout a great deal of public debate and input from the voters.
Instead they let the fear factor and confusion run the process.
The NO NO side was a mixture of voters. Although the religious conservative may be taking credit for leadership roles, I don’t think the motivation provided by said group was the determination of the final vote.
KansasI agree with you. I think the biggest reason the casino vote failed was that nobody understood that the local government had the final say on its location.
Instead helping people to know how involved local government would be in the site selection, they let their opportunity to lead slip away.
Instead they let the fear factor and confusion run the process.Posted by: Poster Boy | August 09, 2007 at 01:12 PM
Even that’s an overstatement. There was never much of a “process” to be run. The YES campaign was a mess from Day One. Some of us just watched from the sidelines and cringed.
I’m not complaining about the results. It’s a done deal and, again, I congratulate the “no” crowd for one hell of a campaign. They won! Regardless if the people who are running the campaign or the misconstrued facts about the issue. They won fair and square.
The whiny asses are actually the Re-vote arena crowd and their minions, which makes up a majority of the “no” crowd public. The Jwinks are high stepping along side Mark Kahrs in their crusade to mold this community under their image.
But they have every right to do so. So long as they don’t resort to illegal activity, I’m cool with it, but don’t think for a minute that I will allow the Jwinks and the Kahrs to walk all over this community like big bullies in a playground. I’ll be standing in there way every chance I get. Because I do not want our community to be handed over to the Jwinks and Kahrs crowd.
The Casino vote? No problem. You win some and you lose some. No complaints, just the way it is.
I wouldn’t say high stepping Joe Williams, more like a “jig” with some high kicking.
“Bingo?The lottery?Housing market speculation?The stock market?
This is all gambling. Why did y’all stop at casinos? Close the bingo parlors. End the lottery. Ban home purchases unless the purchaser contracts to live there. Ban stock trading.
Don’t half ass it folks. In for a penny, in for a pound.”
For once, I agree with sol . . . in a half-assed way.
He is correct: it is all gambling. It’s okay if the state runs it, but not okay if the average citizen tries to do so.
Ask the eleven arrested for a card game in a private residence earlier this week. Of course, they were probably turned in by some moron who lost his welfare check to them, but point made. The state collects no taxes on the winnings, so you go to jail.
Bingo is a joke, supported by many churches as a way to raise money, but doing so by supporting gambling. If people are going to denounce gambling at the voting booth, they SHOULD do so to all forms of gambling. Can you spell church-going, bingo playing hypocrit?
thats why i left wichita 35 years ago and why future individuals will continue to leave, very non-progressive.
Tom; follow the money (Sec.of State finanical disclosure reports) to the State Democrat Party. Direct contributions to the State Party from Ruffin and other gambling interests was used in various ways to help elect candidates like Goyle! Direct or indirect contributions still the same. The indirect use for a candidate is unlimited. Which keeps a candidate like Goyle above the fray! So others like you,can spin on his behalf.
Your comments about radical right Republicans having the majority in the State Legislature. Do you mean the same group (of which Bonnie Huy was a part) worked with Sebelius and liberal Dem’s to pass the poorly written bill? If so, you’ve proved Mark Kahrs correct, when he stated that Republican and Democrat support of the bill are vunerable for re-election.
I was born in this stateand have lived here 58 yrs orall my live and I have never been more disappointed in the peop the who live here now. To me they are afraid tolet progress come into the state, Which very apparent in the last voting that we had. Ialso think that election places should not be placed in the churches.
i thought that church and state and federal government was to be sepereate from one another. I believe in god but I also believe that what I do in my live is between god and myself. and nobody else. As soon as I can I am moving out of this state and giving tothe devil
“not impressed”,
I’m not spinning on behalf of Goyle. Goyle never publicly stated his _MORAL_ opposition to casinos while quietly taking thousands of dollars in…
…you guessed it…
CASINO MONEY!!
Goyle honestly said, “let the voters decide if they want a casino.” Sumner County voters want one. Cherokee County voters want one. Ford County voters want one.
Sedgwick County doesn’t.
Bonnie Huy is a hypocrite. Brenda Landwehr is a hypocrite; she did the same as Huy. They BOTH opposed casinos _anywhere,_ and they did so on supposed “moral” grounds. Yet they took thousands of dollars in casino money…just to keep people from voting to have a casino.
Kahrs is an idiot if he thinks this vote is a mandate for the likes of him to “target” pro-gambling legislators. He would be an idiot for three reasons:
Number 1: Some of the people who voted no still supported the right to vote on it, rather than have Christian Right legislators or legislators who recieved contributions from other location casino decide the issue for them.
Number 2: The No win was due to a coalition, many of whose overall view of the Christain Right is negative, and are not about to follow the likes of Kahrs anywhere.
Number 3: And keep in mind this is coming from someone who intentionally voted against the slots at the greyhound park: I very strongly suspect the slots issue would have won if the proposition on the stupid ballot had actually MENTIONED the greyhound park, instead of a vague statement about “Sedgwick County”. There were obviously more people in favor of the slots at the greyhound park but opposed the casino, but when confronted with a ballot that was arguably unclear as to which proposition referred to the casino, thought it was safer to vote “no-no”.
Ksagnostic,
You had me at “Kahrs is an idiot”
‘Nuff said.
Why is religion so much a key point here? Why do people feel that everyone who voted is yes is ant-religion and all those who voted no pro-religion? Where is it written that all voters are the same? Yes on gambling and you have no religious moral fiber. No on gambling and you are a bible toting religion fanatic? I would have decided no and I havent been to church for 20 years! If it was handled properly as to the right way to handle casinos I would have said yes, this in itself makes me a non-christian?? Herbert West III west.herb@yahoo.com Also see me at wen2k.com It explains my original idea for a ATM type Casino. I was claim/jumped by Kansas.
It is h t t p: // w w w .wen2k.com/tell.php?Id=805 Dont use the spaces. Some site do not allow the websites in the body. Herbert West III west.herb@yahoo.com wen2k.com 1-913-294-9375
Tom, are you in favor of legislators allowing voters to vote on Highway funding, fuel tax increases, or decreases, late term abortions, smoking ban, the list could go on? Did the people have a right to vote on the Gay Marriage Amendment, or should legislators have avoided the issue all together?
You stated that Rep. Landwehr andformer state Rep.Huy took thousands of dollars from the Tribes. It sure looks like you are deflecting(spinning) for Goyle,& the State Democrat Party’s receiving HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS from Ruffin alone.
If, as you’ve stated Landwehr and Huy accepted Tribal contributions in the total sum of thousands. Those contributions were over the course of at least 10 years for Landwehr,& 6yrs for Huy. Look at Ruffins’ contributions alone to the State Dem Party over the past 6 years; excluding the maximum amounts directly to Sebelius’ campaigns. The amount is over a quarter of a million dollars! And the state Party in turn used that money to help elect Goyle!
“not impressed”,
I’m originally from Oregon, where it only takes a citizen petition to get initiatives, including state constitutional amendments, on the ballot. Kansas lacks any such mechanism except by going through the legislature. I think it’s Kansas loss that citizens are kept from putting issues on the state ballot. I think it’s sad that we have to have legislators “allow” us to vote on important issues.
You keep trying to make something out of Goyle’s race. Why? He said the voters should decide on casinos in their respective counties, and he followed through on his word. The most Ruffin could have donated to Goyle is $1000 - $500 in the primary, and $500 in the general election. Goyle didn’t have to be a hypocrite to take the campaign donation.
You make a mountain out of KDP helping get Democrats elected…. DUUUUHHHHHH!!!! THAT’S THEIR JOB!
Huy and Landwehr, on the other hand, say they’re _MORALLY OPPOSED_ to casinos. If they were so opposed, why didn’t they return Potowatomi and Harrah’s donations? Hypocrisy, that’s why. It’s what I’ve learned to expect from so called “conservatives” who are really just radical theocrats who want to control everyone else, and deny them the right to vote on issues affecting their community.
I don’t recall Landwehr’s opposition to the Casino bill as a moral position.
It appears the consensus among most posters, and one of the reason for the Yes defeat was the poorly written language or lack of, in the bill.
Oh, and about Ruffin’s donations to the KDP: There’s a limit of $15,000 per year for donations to state party committees. Are you accusing Ruffin of violating campaign finance laws?
If you have evidence of that, I suggest you turn it over to the Kansas Ethics Commission. Their website is accesskansas.com/ethics
The reasons for the YES defeat have been clearly laid out by Ben and I. Scroll back, and check yesterday’s thread on the topic also.
Ahhhh, Landwehr supporters suggesting she’s amoral.
This gets better and better.
Keep posting, “not impressed,” keep posting.
The problem for using the “poorly written bill” excuse is that if you allowed Sedgwick County the casino, they could have put more in for requirements.
The 2% to Sedgwick and 1% to Wichita is the State’s minimum. But Sedgwick could have easily told competing casino developers, we would like to increase that to 5% to Sedgwick and 5% to Wichita.
The Wichita Greyhound Park, when it was first built actually offered more gaming percentage than the state minimum, due to Sedgwick’s negotiation.
Sumner? They’ll accept the minimum. Because they want it to be built right away, and they know that Wichita will take the brunt of the negative social cost.
The Vote YeaYeaRahRah! crowd AND the Vote NO crowd need to ask why non-Christians voted NO. We are definitely NOT far-right fundies.
The Kahrs bunch are claiming FAR too much credit; the Casino bunce deserve a VERY LARGE piece of it. THEY are the ones who determined the outcome.
And the REAL die-hard casino supporters who voted YES-NO sealed it for the dog track.
“they could have put more in for requirements.”
Maybe. Maybe NOT too.
Who knows, “MAYBE” they will even decide to comply with the budgetary conditions set by the Arena vote instead of allowing a 75% construction cost over-run. “MAYBE” they will restore parking as promised. “MAYBE” they will restore the $23,611,000 loss reserve promised.
“MAYBE” the moon is really made of green cheese …
Sorry Joe!; I want it in writing with a bond posted.
Ben,
What’s galling is how some posters are trying to claim credit for the radicons, while at the same time blaming the Democratic Party for the whole mess to begin with. The facts of how this ended up being passed into law are beyond dispute. The radicons don’t dispute them, either. They just _ignore_ them.
What’s up with that?
Tom, I’m not trying to “make something out of Goyle’s race” that doesn’t tie into the Web story.
And yes DUH, I’m very aware the job of the State Dem Party is to help get their candidates elected. It’s legal,but, is is MORALLY correct, for one individual to donate a quarter of a million dollars to the Party? So the Party can use that money to assist in the elections of candidates that support bail out legislation for the donors failing business?
You get the last word, Tom. I’m wrapping up my day!
Mmmm, green cheese.
“not impressed,”
Did you miss the part where I told you what the annual contribution limits are?
Apparently.
I seriously doubt there were many Yes, No people. It is clear that there were far more No, Yes people.
We will see on Monday though. Bill Gale said there is around 2500 provisionals. While the Dog Track outcome to go yes, is very slim it does have a chance, no matter if it’s slim or not.
I think the Christian people who voted No, No are ones that often vote in every election. The business leaders and groups that voted No, No vote often in each election also. Hence the voter turnout was higher than expected, but not as much as a Presidential General Election.
That being said, I think that more Yes, Yes people voted in this election but often do not vote in other elections, especially city or primaries. With the election poll places reduced, many of the rarely voters came out to vote on the Casino, most likely Yes, Yes. But not knowing were to vote, or not properly registering after an address change prompted them to fill out a provisional ballot.
One of my friends hardly ever votes, but he is registered. He told me he had to fill out a provisional ballot. He voted Yes, Yes.
2500 provisionals. Bill Gale said that usually around 80% are valid. That leaves around 2000 votes. That would mean that the Yes on Dog track to win out, they will have to achieve at least 67.5% of those provisionals. Or 1344 votes of those 2000 provisionals.
It’s a very slim chance. Only if the provisional ballots are more heavily weighed with Yes people than No. It’s a tough call.
Joe,
In candidate elections, the provisionals tend to run Democratic. I don’t know if that means anything for this election, though.
But yeah, the “racino” isn’t over til it’s over.
I’m going to get an updated copy of the voter file in September, after all the voter history has been updated. I’ll run a comparison on who voted this week vs. who voted on the marriage ban. I think the numbers will be interesting, no matter how they turn out!
Allow me to personally repent my uppitiness to all the Hitlerian whack jobs who think Christians should just sit back and let them turn the country into another neo-Nazi dung heap. How can we make this up to you? You can just go out and throw your money down the nearest sewer. That’s roughly what would happen if you went to a casino with it, except you’re too stupid to realize that and you actually think you’re all big time rollers who are going to strike it rich. Lord love a duck, does this paper flush you crackers out of the woodshed.
If you want to come full circle to Scholfield’s post, all he did was argue that what Kahrs told McCormick is off the mark. Kahrs apparently claimed that voters, who apparently don’t have a heck of a lot else to do in life, are going to wait like hill country outlaws for the next election, so as to take their little check-off sheet into the ballot box and indignantly vote against any and all politicians who saw fit to allow the casino vote this week. Kahrs apparently believes that Democrats as well as Republicans will be vulnerable to defeat based on this one issue.
Now let’s think about that for a minute. If you take out the Democrats in this state and you take out the moderate Republicans, who does that leave? Well, for those not quick at arithmetic, it pretty much leaves the ultra conservative crowd, the very same bunch who, with all the sweetness and light shining down from the far, far right, tried to ram a bunch of unnecessary voting restrictions down everyone’s throat last spring because they saw their power fading.
Here’s the point, one more time, for Kahrs and the ultra conservative crowd: those of us who may have voted against the casino for business reasons or doubts about the project as a whole did not do so out of a desire to all of a sudden “see the light,” or fall down on our knees and become true blue conservatives of the burning bush variety. It means we looked at the issue and felt the casino wasn’t wise. And that’s it.
sometimes it’s 2 deacons in every bed.
vote family values for closeted gay married politicans, child molesters, and those who cruise the park restrooms in their districts.
as long as they talk family values you will continue to vote for them.
The reasons for the YES defeat have been clearly laid out by Ben and I. Scroll back, and check yesterday’s thread on the topic also.
Posted by: Tom
well, let me scroll all over the place and read about how you know everything about everything.
I voted no to casino, yes to slots. I don’t give a shit about the moralists. I personally, from my experience and observation, believe that a Casino will draw a steady customer base that looks just like the people who show up for classic rock night at the river festival. What I mean is - scumbags.There is nothing more displeasing to me than cleaning up for an evening out and sharing space at a casino with white trash, black trash, mexican trash, and worst of all…..smokers.Casino’s in Vegas look appealing and kind of make ya feel sexy….but a casino in Kansas……dirt bag central.Does anyone disagree?
Hmmm, if Kahrs is such an idiot, why did he just lead the NO campain to kinking the YES’s ass?
Lick your wounds and shudup!
Your tax dollars are funding many of the losers who haunt these dumps. State owned casinos. What a pack of bought off whores the legislature’s become.
With 70% in favor of the Casino before the vote, sort of makes one wonder how many “dead” NO voters rose up to flee to the polls, and cast a ballot for righteouosness??/
Since 98 percent of the voters used the touch screen Chas. I doubt seriously there were too many Zombies voting.
To the previous poster about whipping somebody’s a–. Before you are overcome by hubris, look at the results in other counties, running anywhere from 64% to 82% yes. By the way, not even talked about, conservative Harvey County voted “yes” before the issue even passed in the legislature. Speaking of the legislature, this “late night back-door talk” about how the gambling bill was “rail-roaded” into a bill, is just as a previous poster stated, you don’t know the political process in Kansas very well if you thought this was snuck in or whatever you want to call it, by the Democrats. The Senate, House, all committee’s are controlled by Republicans ( who almost exclusively lean very right ) The bill was repeatedly brought up and then rechanneled, and finally, some of the most conservative members in our legislature tried to do a full-court stall tactic to not allow it to be voted on, and then to be procedurally screwed by one of their own, Mr. Barnett, and called for a vote on the issue, believing they had it defeated, instead of riding out the full-stall tactic, only to get beat in the vote. Yeah, you are right, the hard politics on this issue have been fairly one-sided. Before the “no” voters get to excited, as stated in some of these posts, the “yes” lacked a leader, did not promote very well, had a poorly written provision, and as usual, moderate, middle-of-the-road populace does not get motivated to vote in an off-year special election. If the “no” side was so formidable, why did the “Slots” at WGP only lose by , what 343 votes. Seems to me, this says the issue is more evenly divided and not something I would lead a charge on Topeka with, for fear I might get my political butt kicked considering I have only a 343 vote majority in Yes, a very conservative region of Kansas. Look at the results in the eastern part of the state Mr. Kahrs, and the Southwest, and the central. Why did the “no’s” lose there.
I did a Google on previous stories about Landwehr’s position on the casino issue. At no time did she ever say it was a moral issue. She stated it was an economic issue. I also called her and asked what her position was on the casino. She said again discussed the economic issues and then explained that if Kansas truly wants casinos then the entire state should have the opportunity to vote on the issue and allow casinos anywhere and by anybody. Let the free market work. She was also concerned with the current law of the state owning the casinos instead of private business.
I also came across a story where she shared on the floor of the house how Ruffin with all of his companies and family members were able to bypass the donation limits to the Governor. It appears that this is done a lot and allows donation limits to be bypassed all the time for candidates and parties.
Moderate independent,
I can’t quibble with a single detail of your excellent analysis - you and I saw exactly the same game being played in the Capitol this session.
Sotheysaid,
By “economic issue,” you mean the economic interests of the casinos that donated thousands to her so she would vote to keep any _competition_ from being built? That economic interest?
Or do you mean the “interest” she has in keeping her seat? Right after last session’s vote, she grabbed Doug Mays, the former Speaker of the House, outside the house chamber and said “YOU JUST COST ME MY F*****G SEAT!” loud enough for _lots_ of people to hear.
You know Doug Mays - the “conservative” Speaker of the House, who in 2006 was _against_ casinos before he was for them? (For them after he got a plum job _lobbying_ for the casinos).
Yes, our dear “I’m only in this for the public interest” Brenda Landwehr. The same Landwehr who got up on the floor of the House, boo-hoo’ed about her own abortion, and then proceeded to vote to tell OTHER women facing similar tragedies, “too bad, I got mine, but you can’t have yours” Landwehr.
She’s such a saint.
Taking Casino while opossing casinos getting abortions while railing against them, I smell a flaming hypocrite.