I argue in my column today that amid all the debate about casino effects and benefits, an obvious fact is being overlooked: Millions of Americans think gambling and casinos are actually fun.
You’d never suspect that listening to the anti-gaming folks.
But many Wichitans have no problem whatsoever thinking of a casino as entertainment, including many people who have no real interest in going to one.
What’s wrong with that?
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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119 Comments
Nothing at all Randy!
Well Randy, sex is fun too. Especially gay sex. But the followers of terry, joe and phred dont like that either.
Agreed. They cant STAND to see anyone happy or having fun.
Where is sam when we all need a good self whipping?
Hey, I know. Maybe he could set up a foot washing stand in the casino instead of the usual shoe shine stand?
heehehehehehehehehhehweeeeeeeehheheh!
I just wanted to make a comment about the casino issue. Anyone opposing the casino, should drive down to Newkirk, Okla. to the casinos down there & go though the parking lots, anytime day or night & see the percentage of Sedgwick county cars. It is strange to me that the people of Wichita would rather drive to Oklahoma to visit the casinos, than to keep them in Kansas. Also, you people act like that this would be the 1st casino located in Kansas. What about the 3 casinos located up by Topeka? Even though I may not visit a casino in Wichita, I think it is dumb not to bring one in due to the revenue & jobs that it would bring to our state.
Seriously? This is gonna be a test of who owns Wichita. The unholy alliance of the religious right and the big business community AND the WE… or…
Everyday people who like to make their own decisions in life. You know, the lunch bucket guys and gals who get up everyday, get the kids off to wherever, go to their jobs, come home, work their asses off…
…and wanna have a little fun close to home. Without the nanny state, the religious right, or the big biz barons telling them WHERE and WHEN they can have a choice about entertainment.
Gee, wonder who’s gonna win.
If it loses, Wichita will find itself skewered for being the fundamentalist backwater it keeps telling everyone it is not.
And it will secure Wichita’s image as a little town run by big business feeding at the public trough. Which your leaders ALSO keep trying to tell us you are not.
This alliance of big, old school, chamber type businesses, the religious right and the “liberal media” is the damndest thing I’ve ever seen.
And I think if they prevail, it will also prove Thomas Frank to be oh so correct in saying that Kansas voters will RUN OVER each other to get to the polls and vote against their own economic self interests.
I think the WE thinks it will win no matter what. They are not going to lose any add money if the casino goes to Sumner county. The casinos will STILL advertise in the WE. As will casinos in other parts of the state.
SO, a very good move on their part by siding with the no. They wont be accused of being “liberal” ever again, they wont lose any advertiser and will, in fact, gain some anyway, they can always tell big biz in Wichita they were on their side, ditto with the religious right folks, etc.
Win-win. I wonder why any of us were surprised that they have been so blatently negative on the casino in Wichita?
“It is strange to me that the people of Wichita would rather drive to Oklahoma to visit the casinos, than to keep them in Kansas.”
Heheheheh Shirley!
It’s just like it used to be with Kansas’ hypocritical liquor laws. It used to be said we had liquor by the wink, not liquor by the drink.
It has also been noted that Kansans will vote “dry” as long as they can stagger to the polls….
Same song, different verse.
Hehehehe. The more I think about it, the more I think the WE should put their money where their mouth is.
Tell us you wont accept any advertising money from casinos.
THEN we might believe you really think it is in Wichita’s best interest not to have a casino there.
I mean, advertising from casinos encourages gambling, right? Encourages ALL those social problems you are so afraid of. And they compete against your existing advertisers and entertainment venues, no?
So.. if you really want to walk the talk, tell us now, that you wont take any advertising money from casinos.
Like I say, the only folks who benefit from all the insane political campaign spending are the media outlets. They win as long as the spending is more more more, no matter WHO does the spending.
years ago the religious right wanted a way to raise money. they decided they needed a cause to mobilize those stay at home christian voters.
operation rescue and the abortion issue was started to get their flock giving money and marching and voting.
the problem with “liberals” is they have a life and want to live their life. they don’t have time to stick their noses into other peoples lives.
christians got to church and are told how bad those other people are and if they work at it hard enough they can force their will on those godless “liberals”.
these christians don’t have a problem telling lies about how awful those people are. does this change things? not often, but it does cause a division among people who otherwise would get along just fine.
now the big issue to pull in the cash is gambling.
and, i’m getting tired of being told i’m a sinner, a criminal, a car thief, or a drug addict who leaves kids in locked cars in the parking lot.
get a life, i wanna have fun in a casino.
Randy Scholfield: I thought at one time that people went to gambling casinos to have “fun.”
But about ten years ago, several of us were having that same conversation in Merriam, Jo Co, Ks. One of my neighbors … a former longtime Playboy Bunny in both the Chicago and L.A. … who actually worked for one of the K.C. riverboat gambling casinos was there. She said she had also noticed remarkably few visitors appeared to be having fun on the K.C. riverboats.
So, four of us jumped in a car and sped up there to research this situation. Its a subjective opinion and perhaps varies with the crowd and time … but we agreed that very few people that evening looked happy. Even in the restaurants, the visitors looked harried, worried, and maybe even desperate.
I’ve been in Reno and Las Vegas and don’t remember that attitude but wasn’t looking for it.
SO, CROSS OUT “FUN” AS A JUSTIFICATION FOR BUILDING A CASINO IN SEDGWICK COUNTY.
So… they go distances to throw away their money and have a BAD time doing it?
ooookaaaaay…..
I was just reading on the “no” vote thread and I am HOWLING at the usual free market rah rah capitalism types who are now saying one reason to vote no is that it gives big out of state company owners TOO MUCH profit?
heheheheheheh.
You just cant make this stuff up.
You mean like big out of state high profit companies that get that way by SUCCESSFULLY exploiting capitalism and the free market to the max?
You mean out of state business interests like Boeing?
hehehheeheh. I’m tellin ya, you just CANT make this stuff up…
I havent really paid much attention to this until lately, so I didnt know, but also read on the “no” thread that the largest ad agency in Wichita is donating its services to the NO campaign.
heheheheheh. I’m laughing now at THAT one! Another win-win no matter what the stupid little people vote for or against.
Does anyone think if the casinos go to Sumner County, this ad agency WONT get the business?
heheheheheheh. OK, same call to them. Put your money where your mouth is. If it is really so bad for the casino to be in Wichita, why not pledge you wont TAKE any casino advertising money?
(Crickets chirping)
Farmgirl
I am sympathetic to the arguments of BOTH sides on this issue.However,the politics of the issue are not nearly as simplistic as you have implied, here.
For starters, the religious denominations that oppose gambling are not at all identical to the religious denominations that oppose abortion.
Further, it does seem hypocritical for government, liberals and conservatives alike, to warn against “pay day loan companies,” “Title loan companies etc.— and then promote even more reckless use of money!
It is also hypocritical for securities commissioner Betts to bash respectable investments, in his public service ads, while the government promotes gambling, the worst “investment” most people ever make.
As for me? I like to play blackjack.I like to play poker.I have played slots, before, but don’t enjoy it much. I guess I need the psychological “bluffing” and interplay, between human beings, to make gambling “fun” for me.
I always set a limit, for myself. If I double (or more) my “limit” I quit.
If I lose my “limit” I quit.
Many people do not have the self control to do that.
What has me looking at “yes” on this issue (I am honestly undecided about voting at all this time) is that funds will be directed towards “problem gambling” programs if we vote YES.
What has me thinking about “no” is the fact that innocent people WILL be hurt.
Currently, our problem gamblers, who go to Indian Casinos, don’t have any support.
Also, I am tired of this issue. I think a “yes” vote is more likely to get the issue behind us.
Any thoughts on that point?
CF2K votes “no” on both measures. He doesn’t like to see money redistributed upwards from poorer folks to richer ones. And legalized gambling has proven to be one of the most effective mechanisms known to man for accomplishing just that.
ksfarmgrrl,
You’re right that this turns out to be a win-win for certain interests, regardless of which way things turn out. Heavy doses of cyncism are definitely in order.
Still, this seems to be an issue where an anti-monopolist like CF2K might be able to stand on the same side of the street with (SHUDDER!) Terry Fox. At least, it’s conceptually possible.
Ladies and gentlemen: There has been lots of discussion saying a portion of gambling income will be set aside to “help” problem gamblers.
Keep in mind, no MONEY will be given to problem gamblers. This would be like giving cash to drunks who have spent their last dollar and can’t feed their family SO THEY CAN GET ONE MORE DRINK.
NO. The “help” will be in the form of COUNSELING the poor guy/gal who has lost his life’s savings. Remember that old saying, “Give a starving man an apple and he will gobble it down and be looking for another meal. Give a starving man some apple tree seeds and he will be able to grow an orchard” … if he can live that long without food!
Also many problems will exist UNDER THE SAFETY NET. The man who loses his family’s rent money. The little single mother who loses the money for food and maybe even a small Christmas Tree.
Hundreds of these situations will PASS BELOW THE SAFETY NET ESTABLISHED TO HELP PROBLEM GAMBLERS.
Geez louise. All this doomsday talk…folks, you cannot save people from themselves no matter what! Those who struggle to pay their rent, put food in their kids’ mouths or a present under the xmas tree are those who really shouldn’t go to a casino, and aren’t likely to. Yes, there will be a few. But witholding or punishing the masses for what 2% can’t handle is ridiculous. Most people want to legally gamble locally. We already have all the negatives that the naysayers rail about, so I really don’t get their point of view. Bottom line is folks have to make choices for themselves. I can’t do it for anyone else and neither can you.
When will the people of Kansas learn that you can’t legislate morality ? If people want to gamble, they’re gonna gamble; if they want to drink, they’re gonna drink; if they want to participate in illicit relationships… on and on. So much money and time wasted by both sides of the issues. Why don’t we concentrate on raising children to be responsible adults and on being good to one another. pass laws to keep us safe, and let the chips fall where they may (no pun intended).
I find it the height of irony that the same people opposed to the casino balk at restaurant smoking bans.
What was that about freedom?
Econ - with the unresolved questions of ‘where?’ and ‘how?’ with a casino what do you think of ‘NO-YES’ which would allow for a de facto casino at the dog track?
Bells, whistles and lights and one’s right to pump as much of their hard earned money into the “Democratic Machine” to come up with three lemons.
Oh wait, you were talking about Casinos.
Just substitute “Casino Owner” where “Democratic Machine” is and you’ll be fine. :)
oh and before I forget…
“Many must lose before a few can win.”
If people want casinos - let them have them. Will crime rise? Probably, but slap the bastids in jail….no big deal.
One thing that seems to be blown out of all proportion is that idea that morality is being flushed when a casino is built. These are casinos - not the Nevada whorehouses, but I’ve heard comparisons.
I’ve been to Vegas a number of times and have never gambled - just because it’s a waste of money. But lots of folks like it. In the supermarkets, laundromats, even donut shops slot machines are lined up. Mostly I observed retired women sitting and chatting with friends - occasionally playing a nickel.
If big rollers want to come and lose tens of thousands - so what? If the father of six can’t help dropping his entire paycheck on the BlackJack table - so what? Maybe his wife needs to see that now and kick his ass out the door.
I don’t believe there is any gambling addiction - only weak-willed people.
Nice to see farmie is still bragging about her lezzie sexcapades all over the board. Some things never change.
Idiot troll. Phil Ruffin is a Republican, and so is Phil Jr.
I think you should wear that pink boa the next time you go down to Newkirk Tom. :)
“So… they go distances to throw away their money and have a BAD time doing it?
ooookaaaaay…..”
yes. open your eyes for once.
Now come on KFG, if there is gonna be a casino, let Wichita vote against it.
May be better for us in the long run if you KWIM?
Oh great well now you’ve done it GS. I now want to have lesbian sexcapades. See what you did.
BenYou do have an idea.
Come to think of it, I wonder how the ballot issues #1 and #2 will differ from one another?
If the vote is tight, as the Eagle predicts, a “split” vote is possible, huh?
PM - how’re you doing, kiddo? You do NOT want to have those lezzie sexcapades - I know you…remember? You’re the gal with the hunk for a hubby.
But, you’re ornery. :)
PM’s right - let the people vote. It’s their community and they should be allowed to run it as they see fit.
If they pass the issue - fine. If they don’t - fine.
I’m hanging in there barely GS. It’s been a hard week and next week is gonna be worse. I got the bestest hubby of all time that’s for sure.
Now you gotta quit picking on KFG now. I loveeee gay people- best people in the world (except my cousin who I’d like to kick in the butt sometimes). You never know. But alas, my ‘choosing to be heterosexual’ ness is overriding my sexcapade.
Voting NO doesn’t mean problem gamblers won’t exist here. They will live here and travel to Sumner County.
Then come home and be miserable.
What about problem gamblers might see some local friends in the Casino and could guide them out of there.
Casino is going to identify problem gamblers and ask them not to return. They know the spending habits and where the people are getting their money.
NO is distributing the potentially $300 Million investment money out of this community.
Ben is trying to rationalize his NO-YES vote as a badge of community honor.
He hates Downtown efforts because of the Arena.
Bent sideways from that, promoting hopes Ruffin’s racino magically becomes a Casino someday!
The guy has never visited the dog track! Still the slots might not attract him there. If Ruffin’s bar has good food!
Wanting food, hating downtown is not good enough reasons to vote NO on a Casino in Wichita.
Unsure about local problem gamblers, its better they gamble in the community where they live. Someone will know them and help them make a better life decision.
Vote NO and let this huge amount of investment money leave to Sumner County, the problem gamblers will be in crowds of strangers for the most part out there. Fewer opportunities someone familiar will guide them from the Casino.
I would like to see how the current proposal compares to Vegas, Atlantic City, and the MS casinos, which are the 3 largest groups of casinos around last I checked.
I voted no because I have seen what casinos can do when they move in and have been there for 10+ years.
I see the Eagle supporting casinos more than I see them encouraging you to vote against it.
If you vote downtown at the courthouse, the example shows how to vote yes.
I expect the casino to pass for one reason; the yes groups chose a low turn election, just like the arena group did. Less than a 1/4 or 1/5 of our citizens made the decision we all have to live with.
Shouldn’t this be a 50% +1 of registered voters issues where registered voters have to show ID to lock out the dead from voting.
Econ - #1 is casino and #2 is slots at the track. Since 87% of gaming revenue at a casino is slots that makes #2 de facto casino at the track.
and econ - a split is my prediction.
I’m gay and I want everybody to know it on every topic on the blog! It’s my issue! I’m gay and I want everybody to know it on every topic on the blog! It’s my issue!I’m gay and I want everybody to know it on every topic on the blog! II’m gay and I want everybody to know it on every topic on the blog! It’s my issue!t’s my issue!I’m gay and I want everybody to know it onI’m gay and I want everybody to know it on every topic on the blog! It’s my issue! every topic on the blog! It’s my issue!I’m gay and I want everybody to know it on every topic on the blog! It’s my issue!I’m gay and I want everybody to know it on every topic on the blog! It’s my issue!
“He hates Downtown efforts because of the Arena.”
AS YOU ARE WELL AWARE MRAGE I HAVE FACILITATED A NUMBER OF DOWNTOWN EFFORTS. HOW IS THAT HATING THEM?
YOU DON’T HAVE A CLUE!
PM - I like gay folks, just not farmie. Ah, I take that back, I do like her - but only as an amusing distraction.
Hope your weeks gets better. Hope you read my advice and give it some serious thought.
Yes, even gay people (like your cousin) can be obnoxious, but for the most part - they’re just people….except when they try to be hydrologists. lol
kscrptmunchrrrrrr - goodness, I’m glad you got that off your chest.
Ben,
It’s all about the Arena, today. Your past efforts to help downtown are being overshadowed.
You don’t want the Casino dollars entering the Arena from City side.
If the City benefits from a Casino, somehow downtown Arena parking problem have assistance.
You don’t like the Casino near Century II idea.
You could probably can handle Ruffin’s downtown Casino plan better.
He makes a commercial only talking about the racino and your focus is there.
Hating the Yeah Arena your punishing Wichita by voting NO so the City doesn’t benefit.
That’s too unbalanced reasoning. Both governemts have to partner on the Arena parking situation.
No way should Chiltons be asked to move either.
If you want Ruffin to have a Casino chance as the legislation exists today, its Yes, Yes.
WRONG AGAIN MRAGE!!!!!!!
I feel that a casino downtown will HURT Wichita. So, it is obvious that YOU HATE WICHITA! After all, why would you want things that hurt Wichita unless YOU HATE WICHITA?
“No way should Chiltons be asked to move either.”
MRAGE, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WAS SAYING CHILTONS SHOULD BE FORCED OUT, NOT ME! YOU OBVIOUSLY HATE CHILTONS TOO!
THAT is the unbalanced reasoning here - you say Chiltons should be expelled and now you claim the opposite.
By the way Mrage - just when have YOU ever done something for the community? NEVER! You just line up at the trough and slurp up taxpayers’ dollars.
Tom-
I was one of those against the smoking ban, preferring market forces. I am also one that hopes the city gets a casino. I don’t really gamble, at least not much any more, but it could be a nice extra entertainment feature for teh city. I do not see it as a huge financial boon, I just don;t think Wichita is ever going to be a “destination” no matter how hard it tries. But, it will keep local money here, and now it OK, or Topeka. Casinos, once almost completely run by those “connected” are now run by corporations. Just like Shelplers, and Cessna, and BOeing, etc. Most of the profit is sent elsewhere. The way it is. They are neither good, or bad, they just are. The problem gamblers already are gambling. Illegally, or somewhere else. Build it and they will come. Well, maybe not from very far away, but they will come.
You know, if kansasfarmgirl were hot then I’d dig some lezzie-talk. But man, that pig is fugly.
Ben,
By wanting $300 Million spent in Wichita, I hate this city?
You think culturally Casino would be bad downtown, because of some corporate heads don’t want to be near it.
CEO’s who say they will abandon downtown out of spite, they are showing concern for downtown doing that? They are trying to intimidate their employees.
Chiltons could be moved and profit from it. Forced out isn’t going to happen, if it becomes necessary to create Arena parking in that location.
Better for Chiltons to not be bothered with Arena parking in their lot after hours when they are closed.
I got pool table from Chiltons, friends did as well. I hate them!
I want to use TIF bonds in my stadium project, not have the City pay for it. I sense the need for a new stadium downtown, that has never been constructed by the School Board.
It has value to North, East and West high schools. In the perfect location for river festival events as well.
The process allows JWINK to move out of this County if he wants to.
“You think culturally Casino would be bad downtown, because of some corporate heads don’t want to be near it.”
WRONG AS USUAL. I CONCLUDED THAT ON MY OWN.
“I got pool table from Chiltons, friends did as well. I hate them!”
EXPLAINS WHY YOU WANT THEM FORCED OUT!
I think a casino in a campus-like setting on the highway might be good for the region. That is why the track location is attractive to me. I do NOT think a downtown location - whether done by the Canadiens or Ruffin or someone else - will be good for Wichita.
You might notice that Sharon Feary ALSO said it would be best NOT downtown. So, does SHE hate downtown now?
Oh yea; ANYONE who disagrees with Mrage hates Wichita and should leave.
Casinos are fun! It is fun to just stand and watch all the FOOLS weep as they lose all their money! Like I said, I fully 100% support casinos everywhere. And I LOVE Las Vegas! But I rarely ever gamble even a dollar.
My my my. I still dont see anyone contradicting the substance of what I post. I see the gay bashers out in full force. Funny stuff considering all the “sources”. heheheheheheheheh!
Econ, for god’s sake get it right. BETTS is not the securites guy. That is Chris Biggs. But nice preemptive swipe at Don Betts.
Second, I dont think I implied that these were all the abortion people behind the no.
“For starters, the religious denominations that oppose gambling are not at all identical to the religious denominations that oppose abortion.”
Show me where I said that.
And lastly, paulie, we’ve been over the “innocent people getting hurt” thing. I know your concern is real. But that is the cold hard truth of capitalism and devotion to a pure free market. Innocent people get hurt all the time, with every layoff, every business failing, every product or service or business that couldnt “cut it” in the free market.
Either you want unfettered capitalism and the free market or you dont. You cant have it both ways.
Ben,
Why do I hate Chilton’s if my pool table and friends came from there. That’s only location where I’ve ever searched for a pool table.
I only wanted a bumper pool table for the poker top but they talked me into a pool table.
Where family got theirs.
I simply want close parking for the Arena and if Chilton’s is bothered they should be afforded the chance to relocate and still be downtown.
But you hate the Arena vowing never to attend events there.
That’s promoting good community behavior.
The best Casino plan will win, your voting for no one locally to have a Casino chance.
Spell out exactly why Wichita shouldn’t have a Casino? Because it would be downtown? That’s it?
“But you hate the Arena vowing never to attend events there.”
ANOTHER MRAGE LIE. I HAVE NEVER VOWED TO NOT ATTEND EVENTS. YOU KNOW THAT. YOU ARE A LIAR!
“Because it would be downtown? That’s it?”
YES! THAT’S IT! IF I COULD BE SURE OF A GOOD LOCATION I WOULD BE FOR IT. BUT I CAN’T; EXCEPT FOR THE DOG TRACK. AS YOU KNOW I SUPPORTED NON-DOWNTOWN LOCATIONS WITHIN THE CITY. PAY ATTENTION!
“Why do I hate Chilton’s if my pool table and friends came from there.”
I DON’T KNOW. BUT YOU SAID YOU HATE THEM. YOU TELL ME WHY YOU HATE THEM!
“I simply want close parking for the Arena”
THE COUNTY HAS PROMISED TO PROVIDE IT. HOLD THEM TO THEIR PROMISE! I HAVE IT IN WRITING!
Ben,
Your bombastic! Just flip labels on people to bolster arguments.
I hate them, was tongue in cheek. Sure, I hate Chiltons buying a pool table from them. My only place to look for pool tables.
You missed that because you have a bombastic trigger when replying.
They could be in the wrong location today after all these years because PROGRESS happened downtown in that area.
Remember your damaging the City by voting $300 Million to be spent in Sumner County.
Problems with bad gamblers won’t reach $300 Million in social costs. So the investment is more important, needs to happen here.
But go on and vote the way you want. You don’t get a gold star defending downtown on this Casino project.
To me the dog track location sucks and Gilley’s being built there won’t impress me.
I want gaming tables in a full Casino.
Ruffin spent a long time getting slots for dog tracks but he recognizes having a Casino is better.
He doesn’t own the Casino license because its state controlled but he finds value being the Casino operator and owning buildings.
The only definitive site he has is the dog track.
We are worse off just having a dog track with slots.
I wrote a letter to Eagle editor specifically about that, it was archived in Topeka.
We deserve more than just slots in this county.
That was almost forced on us, but now we’re voting, we’ll see what the people want next week.
Guess what — casinos can be fun
Yes and I heard the smoke from cigarrettes is a real gaser too.
Vote NO.
Bombastic? All I did was quote you! As for bombastic, how about your deliberate lies? When have I ever vowed not to attend events? That was a bald-faced lie! YOU KNOW IT IS A LIE!
However, you PERSIST in that lie!
“we’ll see what the people want next week.”
Yes we will. I have made my prediction and published it.
you are right, its bigs not bettssorry, take a chill pill, wrote that too fast!
Either you want unfettered capitalism and the free market or you dont. You cant have it both ways.
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | August 03, 2007 at 05:38 PM
———————–
Once again, farmie demonstrates her limited thinking.
No one that I can see is fostering “unfettered” capitalism. I typically don’t advocate ‘over legislating’ anything, but the government has an obligation to regulate certain areas of capitalism that can be destructive to society: alcohol, drugs, tobacco, gambling, et al.
Personally, I don’t care if the measure passes or fails. Sumner County has already approved casinos, and if they build a one there, Wichita will still get all the societal fallout - with none of the benefit.
I’ll likely vote yes.
It’s a rare day that I agree with the Eagle editorial staff…
But, this is one.
No/No.
Posted by: KSGolfnut | July 22, 2007 at 11:36 PM
I’ll likely vote yes.
Posted by: KSGolfnut | August 03, 2007 at 08:26 PM
From what I hear, KSGolfnut is way too big a boy, to be such a violent flip-flopper. :D
If you vote no! A casino will be built 8 miles from Wichita and 4 miles from Derby on the Sumner County side of the Turnpike Mulvane Exit.
My initial reaction: no/no.
Upon further inspection: likely yes. But, as I stated above: “Personally, I don’t care if the measure passes or fails.”
Where’s the violence?
Even though I have heard very little from the “no” side on the moral issues of gambling, I get really tired of people saying “you can’t legislate morality”. Yes you can. How about laws against murder (Thou shalt not kill), stealing (Thou shalt not steal), perjury (Thou shalt not bear false witness)?
The biggest moral issue of a casino is not that of gambling, but that of carelessly placing your family and friends in financial and emotional danger. Also, uncaringly placing an unbearable burden on local charities and agencies for your own selfish pleasures. The profits will flow out of Wichita while the financial burdens will remain. A Downtown casino will compete for the same dollars as the unbuilt Arena, and with local businesses. It is a terrible idea and will do unrepairable harm to this city!
Oh.. and KFG…. Joe has been retired and gone for many months now.. so stop beating that dead horse.
Farmgirl
Do we take a “net worth and income statement” from the gamblers?
To buy a mutual fund they would have to submit such information.
To take out a mortgage or a credit card, information is requested.
To take out a credit card, personal finance info is requested.
There are limits on what interest can be charged.
There are arbitration proceedures to get their money back from investment advisors.
However, not much recourse for the Alzheimers patient or stroke victim or mentally infirm who might gamble.
It is the use of the term “unfettered” that bothers me.
The most “unfettered” area for people to blow their money is —-
ALSO THE PLACE WHERE THEY ARE LEAST LIKELY TO SEE ANY POSITIVE RETURN ON THEIR MONEY, OR THE RETURN OF THEIR MONEY AT ALL!
Sorry, KSGrrl (& Randy)–
I deg to biffer.
Having fun is fine. Spending money to have fun is fine.
Blowing your rent and grocery money thinking that you can get back everything you lost with just one “double or nothing” is not fine.
Movies, cruises, golf are entertainment that don’t wreck families and hurt society.
Gambling does.
It’s none of people’s business on what people do with their money.
People blow their money on stuff that isn’t needed all the time. Gambling is hardly something to worry about.
Again! The vast majority of bankruptcy cases are caused by uninsured medical debt, followed by consumer credit card debt (buying things like furniture, TV’s, clothing and etc), and if you want to know how many bankruptcy cases are caused by borrowing for gambling? Less than 5%.
If you want to worry about alzheimers patients or stroke victims or mentally infirmed people, look for scam artist and Social Security and Medicare scams on them. Did you know that when these type of individuals are admitted to an assistance living place, they take everything of that person. Everything! House, entire life savings, retirement, pensions and their social security checks. The person dies with nothing and no inheritance for their children or relatives.
Yet you are worried about a casino?
Joe! NO-YES just might mean a de facto casino right here in Sedgwick County - at the track. Have you see today’s Business Journal? Complete with attractions and everything else. Only thing missing would be table games which make only a small fraction of a casino.
Econ,
Explain how voting NO stops what your complaining about.
In the place least likely to get a financial return, why not have it locally. Those people might be recognized by others and guided out of the Casino.
Move the Casino further away, local folks that can’t afford gambling too much, maybe lost in mix of strangers.
The key loss is $300 Million not spent in this community.
Locally, can’t we take care of own problem gamblers because we don’t have to travel very far to see where they are gambling.
Are you going to drive far to witness local people gambling when they shouldn’t since your so socially concerned?
You wouldn’t gamble based on that thinking, only there to protect others from making financial mistakes.
You might be passing out NO gambling leaflets or something.
Vote Yes, you won’t have to drive far to do that.
Joe, that’s too far outside of Wichita city limits only 8 miles away. Wichita has benefit in this project. This is not about commute time.
Mrage - not everyone lives downtown. For me, IF I wanted to visit a casino, the Track is closer in driving time than the downtown locations I have seen discussed. 8 miles is nothing.
Ben,
Outside the City limits is too far, Wichita has this chance to benefit!
It’s not a commute time related choice.
Yes, puts the Casino is in Sedgwick County with a chance to be in Wichita or not.
Vote NO, nowhere in Sedgwick County gets a Casino.
The racino is not turning into a Casino anytime soon.
Park City can promote the racino, Wichita shouldn’t.
Two casinos in our area won’t be bad.
OKC has several. Tulsa has several. KC has several.
A Racasino and a Casino is just a win, win.
Mrage - tell me exactly what the difference between a casino and a racino. Have you even looked at the ‘New Frontier’ proposal? That would be in Sedgwick County.
Maybe everyone who lives in Sedgwick County but not in Wichita should vote NO-YES for YOUR selfish reasons - wanting it in their jurisdiction. Given the fact that Wichita is in Sedgwick County and revenues going to the County will benefit Wichita please explain exactly how a gaming facility in the County but not inside the city limits doesn’t help Wichita.
Remember Mrage, Sedgwick County is building your Arena; Wichita is not.
I think WichiWoman had the best post on the smoking ban thread. How hypocritical to say you support the BUSINESS right to chose and the patrons of those businesses right to chose on smoking.
But citizens cant be trusted on gambling?
Hell, alcohol and cigs are addictive, and alcohol causes harm JUST as bad to families and communities. Worse in my opinion.
But I dont hear any of you personal liberty anti nanny state folks saying alcohol should not be sold in Wichita.
I dont gamble either, and have no personal interest in whether you pass this or not. But the juicy hypocrisy here of the free market folks suddenly wanting legal business kept OUT of the county is just too rich.
Just like the liberals in favor of personal choice and personal liberty free of the nanny state suddenly, on this issue, want to protect poor pitiful folks who just cant resist gambling by managing their money FOR them.
All these gymnastics and folks suddenly making the arguments of their opponents is just making me laugh my ass off.
I guess it’s true. Depending on whose ox is gored, humans can do all kinds of logical contortions.
The next time “nanny state” comes up, I hope you all remember which side you were on with THIS issue.
What was it Wichi said? Hypocrits. That’s it.
Many must lose so a few can win.
It was just good enough, Wichi, to post TWICE!
“Talk about a flip flop! We’ve gone from everyone screaming about protecting those who can’t possibly choose responsibly for themselves (ie: gamblers) to those who have chosen to smoke (and most likely addicted) as dumb and stupid scum of the earth. Granted, many of us probably started long ago when the ‘rules of society’ were different and before the big health craze, but once again this is a freedom of choice issue. You smoke? whatever. You don’t? fine. Even though my efforts at trying to quit have not yet been successful, I CHOOSE not to smoke in my home, vehicle or restaurants or anywhere indoors. I don’t like the smell of it in a closed environment so I smoke outside and a respectable distance away from doors or nonsmokers. And I wish all smokers would be courteous. But with that said, if I’m outside and well away from others, then whether or not I smoke is my business.
So, why doesn’t anyone feel “sorry” for smokers and want to “help” them? After all, don’t they need to be “protected” from their choice? Where’s that ‘gotta save them from themselves’ crowd now? Hypocrites.
Posted by: WichiWomn | August 03, 2007 at 03:25 PM
As much as I dislike smoking, I firmly believe that business owners should have the power to decide for themselves whether or not they’ll allow it.
Let the market decide…
Ben,
The gaming tables matter. That is the floor difference between a Casino and Racino.
If the dog tracks became Casino’s state wide, not just for Ruffin here, what stops new Casino’s from offering dog track racing.
Ruffin protecting the dog racing industry doesn’t want it open to everyone. Is dog racing better with slots nearby?
Wichita will benefit better if the Casino is within City limits.
Wichita’s Casino plans will defeat anywhere else in the County, Park City is only the other location.
Without a Casino in Sedgwick County, so what, its next door in Sumner County.
Wichita doesn’t benefit is the key point.
Sedgwick County gets a percentage and they will a have Racino. Its not far to drive.
But Wichita won’t benefit!
Do you want less taxes used improving Century II? Make the Canadians pay for the improvements.
Don’t you want less taxes used on creating a new Library?
Don’t you want the Hyatt sold?
That’s why the Wichita Casino has benefits downtown.
Who is buying that rotting building on the corner of Douglas and Main. Nobody is! The Canadians said they want to.
Much noise protection would be placed inside Century II.
We would have a “riverwalk” with a Casino by the river.
I’m voting to place a Casino in Wichita city limits. I hope a City location wins in Topeka.
Park City will have to blow away Wichita Casino plans.
Mrage - isn’t Sharon Feary your City Council member? Why does she hate downtown so much? “I will not, however, use m Wichita City Council vote to support a casino in downtown Wichita.” So tell me Mrage, does she hate Wichita?
Or maybe, just maybe, she realizes as I do that a casino downtown will NOT be a good thing for Wichita.
Which is it Mrage? Does Feary hate Wichita? After all, you claim that anyone who doesn’t support a downtown casino hates Wichita. So, Mrage, tell me why she hates Wichita?
“But Wichita won’t benefit!”
WRONG AS USUAL MRAGE!
County makes money. County spends the money in Wichita. That benefits Wichita.
Go ask your accountant to explain that to you Mrage!
KSGolfnut
I agree with you to a point, but i think any place where children are at on a regular basis free and open should be smoke free.
Family restaurants, stores, malls, etc…
Bars, rock concerts, sporting events, etc… should be allowed to make up their own decision.
I would say any place that serves beer should be able to make up their own mind. Any place that doesn’t, should be smoke free.
Good point golfnut. My only issue is location.
KS Gulfnut
Now, I have to agree with you on this one…
“Believe as i say, not as i do..
That’s the theme of Church….
Feary hasn’t voted on any City Casino plan yet. Her City Council position can’t be that staunch yet. She can be outvoted on the Council too.
Is she worried about the rotting building on corner of Douglas and Main? It’s a key corner downtown, Douglas and Main.
Someone wants to buy that building, let them! Someone wants to help the Library move to larger building, help them do it.
Someone has to pay for Century II improvements because they want the land behind, make them!
The City could financially benefit and Council members know it.
Some key people are making a public stink threatening to move their business from downtown. Employees might have a say in those decisions regardless what the CEO’s are claiming.
County people spending money in Wichita isn’t the same as a investment money buying City property. I prefer investment money being spent on City property.
I prefer investment money being spent in Wichita on any other property within the City limits.
I want a Casino in Wichita.
You didn’t answer my question: why does Feary hate Wichita? Come on Mrage, tell me why she hates downtown!
In fact, she is absolutely right; a downtown location would be bad for Wichita. Unfortunately, people like YOU who hate Wichita want something that will HURT Wichita.
Mrage, why do YOU hate Wichita?
By the way, it is precisely the location issue that will give NO the margin of victory next week.
Hey Mrage…
Everything regarding the CII and Hyatt and a casino around it has been taken off of the table…
So why are you even talking about it?
Tony - he wants to put them back ON the table. In fact, that is the uncertainty I refer to that will defeat Mrage’s casino. People don’t trust liars like Mrage.
Hey Mrage - you lied when you claimed that I vowed never to attend an event at the Arena. Back up that claim Mrage or admit that you are a liar. Even Joe! admitted that was a lie!
Why are you a liar Mrage?
Tony,
Tom Docking offering a refund to the Canadians? The only change of that plan is Mayor Brewer being elected.
His backers are part of the NO campaign. Canadians didn’t want their plan to cause more NO votes. Notice how it hasn’t been talked about publicly recently.
People had fear Century II was going to be sold and that was never the truth.
Canadians can’t want all that, its been too long Brian Hamm has considered that location to walk away. Spent too much in Tom Docking to walk away.
Influenced the 2011 Bowling tournament to walk away?
Ben, Mrage is such a stupid illiterate that he probably doesn’t even KNOW when he is lying.
“The only change of that plan is Mayor Brewer being elected.
His backers are part of the NO campaign.’
PROVE THAT CLAIM MRAGE!
” Influenced the 2011 Bowling tournament to walk away?”
PROVE THAT ONE TOO MRAGE!
You sure are fast and loose with your allegations Mrage. More lies like your deliberate lie about me?
Why do you lie so much Mrage? Is that other guy correct that you simply don’t know when you are lying?
Bem,
Did Russ Meyer campaign for Brewer or support him. There you are.
Wasn’t Tom Docking involved or people that worked for him part of the problem with Century II being used in 2011.
How long would it take the Canadians to pay for and create a Casino downtown? Its a few years completing that project. Brian Hamm for a long time thought he could buy Century II. That caused the influence.
“But you hate the Arena vowing never to attend events there.”
ANOTHER MRAGE LIE. I HAVE NEVER VOWED TO NOT ATTEND EVENTS. YOU KNOW THAT. YOU ARE A LIAR!
STILL WAITING LIAR MRAGE! BACK UP YOUR CLAIM! OR ADMIT THAT YOU ARE A LIAR! A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR AT THAT!
Ben,
Sorry about the name typo..your worth that correction.
That freak troll is a punk, you dip down to agree with his thoughts, your slipping.
Ben,
I won’t waste time going through the archives or apologize.
At some point since you flipped from voting for the Arena to denouncing it, there was statements you weren’t eager to attend events in the Arena.
You didn’t change alliance with the Arena easily. You claim the County lied to you, so their liars.
“But you hate the Arena vowing never to attend events there.”
ANOTHER MRAGE LIE. I HAVE NEVER VOWED TO NOT ATTEND EVENTS. YOU KNOW THAT. YOU ARE A LIAR!
STILL WAITING MRAGE!
YOU CALLING SOMEONE A PUNK! THAT IS PRICELESS FROM A LIAR LIKE YOU!
So you lie and refuse to apologize for being a liar. So be it!
Ben,
Whatever floats your boat, hope you sleep well. I will.
Yep. I guess lying constantly floats yours.
“you dip down to agree with his thoughts, your slipping.”
But deliberately lying about someone is OK in Mrage-land!
lol…
“His backers are part of the NO campaign.”
That’s the biggest lie of the day…
Brewers backers were Bob Knight, Real Development, The Old Town guy, and other old money in Wichita…
Hum, Bob Knight… I seem to remember him being a part of some Casino project… Hum… Could that be the casino up north? Bob Knight represents a casino NOT in downtown, therefor Brewer is trying to kibosh any feasible casino plans so that Knights plan is selected…
Try getting your facts straight.
Tony - he is incapable of that. He still has not explained why Feary hates Wichita or why he lies so much.
I think ‘n’ is right.
Ben,
If we met before at the WE blog meeting, I might see and recognize you at the Arena.
See you there! Do go to Arena events whenever it opens.
Your challenge about me failing to influence more seats in the Arena that process isn’t dead.
It behooves County Manager Buchanan to get corporate partners in the Arena. So he should be shopping the Arena around. I told him a CEO he should contact about it. I gave him a potential Corporate name for the Arena.
Just counting on SMG to cover losses isn’t going to work. SMG needs a corporate partner to assist them to get events here.
HAHAHAHAHA!
STILL HALLUCINATING ABOUT YOUR VAUNTED INFLUENCE WITH ALL THOSE CORPORATE TYPES? IT’S DEAD! GET USED TO IT?
I have said all along that IF there is an event that interests me I may go. I have asked what such events might occur. YOU KNOW THAT! I ask again - what events will be there? THAT IS THE KEY!
Do you lie to your corporate buddies like you do about me? Or, more likely, is your story about all those buddies just yet another lie?
“Just counting on SMG to cover losses isn’t going to work.”
On this we agree.
Didn’t Bob Knight get in on the land deal by the Coliseum for a Casino Deal? (between 85th and I-35)
I also heard that Sumner County was part of guidance from Bob Knight. Don’t know if he invested down there or not.
Tony,
Who is “old money” your talking about in Brewer’s campaign. I can’t find an old article on that night. Didn’t someone describe people in the room.
Some of those backers have to be part of the NO campaign, regardless of Bob Knight.
Mayor Brewer wants a Casino outside the City limits?
He’s probably bent never being in those meetings with Tom Docking and George Kolb, is why he doesn’t like the downtown location for the Casino.
I can’t assume Brewer would prefer Casino outside the city limits would be fine. He was eager for Ruffin’s Casino plan wanting more details.
I think Knight is hedging his bets with Sumner just like Ruffin is with the track and the new ads. You might check out today’s Business Journal.
Mrage - most of the people I know involved in Brewer’s campaign are on the YES side of the casino. As your friend Joe! noted the Democratic Party endorsed YES.
Ben,
SMG was hired, find the contact person when they create SMG- Wichita ask them what events are going to be bid for.
My corporate influence can be denied, but it hasn’t been. I haven’t recieved, the no its possible comment, at all.
Would you accept continued discussion with a topic your not agreeing with? Personal discussions have limits.
Only the land is being cleared, nothing has been contructed, there is still time to improve the Arena plan, larger size with more seats.
Mayor Brewer’s campaign manager was Bob Knight. His major supporter was Bob Knight. Bob Knight got him elected with his connections.
Heck, Ruffin donated to Brewers campaign. I would say that yes, “No” supporters donated to his campaign, but i am willing to bet you that the majority of the money and influence comes from “Yes” side.
Brewer is Knights puppet. Knight says to jump, Brewer says how high…
“He’s probably bent never being in those meetings with Tom Docking and George Kolb, is why he doesn’t like the downtown location for the Casino.”
Is that Feary’s reason too? No Mrage, it is just that they both realize that a downtown location would not be good for Wichita.
Man, you sure have a vivid imagination. No wonder you don’t even know when you are lying!
Mrage
Its been what, a year since the plan came out to have a 15,000 seat arena and its been, what a year that YOU have said that you are going to use your “powers” to get the arena enlarged… So far, I have seen any change in the plans… Where are these corporate donors you keep touting? When is Ron Holt going to come out and say, we are going to make it bigger? The county choose to take the “extra money” being brought in by the tax and put it toward the VIP amenities, rather than enlarge it… I have to say, your influence upon the county commission is null.
tony - for a long time Mrage called me a liar for saying it was 15,000 seats. Remember that? He is as clueless as ‘n’ says.
Battery going - gone for the night.
yea, i remember thoes days…
mrage… i hate to say it… but until you can produce some shread of accomplishment when it comes to enlarging the arena, i will say, enough talking for you…
Hey, let me give you a quick hint… If they remove the 11,000 sq ft of VIP area, they can put in another 2,000 seats.. That would be a quick way to enlarge your arena…
Ben,
I don’t care what Feary thinks, she can be out voted on the Council.
Brewer is the key person, who is Bob Knight’s puppy and doing everything in his power to not let a Casino be in the City limits?
Our Mayor is scheming to screw Wichita out of the Casino.
Tony,
The County announced picking SMG back in January, they just hired them.
How fast corporates move, I never controlled. I only have the access to some people to talk with.
They could have cut the access down at any time.
With SMG and events possible described to the Corporations, they might have a better idea how to market the Arena. What their investment will actually do and how to get a return.
SMG should have been hired months ago.
“I don’t care what Feary thinks, she can be out voted on the Council.” More people respect Feary than will ever respect liar you.
“Our Mayor is scheming to screw Wichita out of the Casino.” Prove it liar.
“SMG should have been hired months ago.” On that we agree. And they souldn’t have been given the fine print escape clauses that may invalidate the contract.
Ben,
Tony just said Brewer was owned by Bob Knight. He hates the downtown Casino idea.
I’m giving him benefit of the doubt, Brewer wants a within City limits Casino.
We’ll see what how strong Feary votes are when the City Council determines what the best Casino plan is.
How many Casino plans are going to be offered up to Topeka. Which plan will have political backing.
You know what your sounding like, that STRIPES movie. Remember when the kid on bike wanted his $2 incessantly. That’s how your behaving.
I WAS WRONG!
The paper boy scene wanting his $2 incessantly was a movie called
Better Off Dead, 1985.
Who says it: Demian Slade as Johnny Gasparini, the paper boy.
The context: Johnny chases angst-ridden teenager Lane Myer (John Cusack) all throughout the movie, demanding payment. Lane makes various attempts at suicide, courts an exchange student and skis down a double-black diamond trail with the paper boy chasing him wanting his $2.
How to use it: To acknowledge that you’re obsessing over something that may seem minor to other people.
I probably only saw that movie once, 22 years ago. Memorable action by the paper boy, but now reminded.
Quote from STRIPES:
“That’s a fact Jack!”
Make them non-smoking establishments in the casino and I might go once or twice a year. But I will not go inhale the smoke like they have in the KC MO casino’s. It’s horrible!
As it is, I plan on voting NO.
Never saw either movie Mrage so don’t know … or care either.
There is one and only one way to be sure of the location. And enough voters will figure that out.
And you, Mrage, sound like that little puppet in the cartoon … the one whose nose kept growing.
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